Debates of 1 Mar 2006

MR. SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:10 a.m.
CORRECTION OF VOTES 10:10 a.m.
AND PROCEEDINGS AND 10:10 a.m.
THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Order! Order! Correction of Votes and Proceedings, we shall begin with that for Friday, 24th February, 2006. Page 1 ….11 -
Let us take that for Tuesday, 28th
February, 2006.
Mr. Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:10 a.m.
Mr.
Mr. Speaker 10:10 a.m.
That is all right, go on.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:10 a.m.
At page 5 of the Votes and Proceedings, I raised this matter last week and it does appear that it has recurred; and it is in respect of the hon. Member for Amenfi East who doubles as the Western Regional Minister; hon. Aidoo, Joseph Boahen - No.20 on page 5. It also affects hon. Edumadze, Isaac E., No. 50; hon. Sampson Kwaku Boafo, the Member for Subin and the Ashanti Regional Minister.
Mr. Speaker, these hon. Members and
a couple of others sought permission and I forwarded same to you, and I thought that you would have granted them permission to abstain from Parliament to perform
their ministerial responsibilities in their various regions. And I thought that in the circumstance, they would be marked “Absent with Permission” but their names appear merely as absentees. If I may crave your indulgence Mr. Speaker, could you direct that the corrections be effected. Thank you very much.
Mr. Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Thank you for the information.
Tuesday, 28th February, 2006, Page 1
…14. Hon. Members, we do not have any Official Report for today.
Item 3, Questions Minister for the
Interior.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 10:10 a.m.
MINISTRY OF THE INTERIOR 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Minister for the Interior,
thank you very much for appearing; you are discharged.
PAPERS 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Chairman of the Committee on Privileges -
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
C - Chairman of the Committee on Privileges [Pause] -- We are deferring it -
rose
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon. Majority Leader, yes?
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am told the Report is ready but we are trying to find a member of the Committee to confirm that so that it can be laid later on.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
But we are deferring it for the time being; we will come back to it. Item 6 - Hon. Members that is continuation of the Consideration Stage
of the Subvented Agencies Bill.
Hon. Members would recall that the House duly considered clauses 1 to 12 on Thursday, 23rd February, 2006. We will now proceed to clause 13, which was deferred for consideration. Chairman of the Committee -
BILLS - CONSIDERATION STAGE 10:20 a.m.
SUBVENTED AGENCIES BILL 10:20 a.m.
  • [Resumption of Consideration from 23-2-06]
    • Mr. Paul Okoh 10:20 a.m.
    Thank you. Mr. Speaker. But before we look at clause 13, may I crave your indulgence for us to go back to clause 6 (d).
    Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
    Clause 6 (d)? [Break]
    Mr. E. A. Agyepong 10:20 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I do not know, normally when amendments are moved out and voted on, we cannot just go back to them. If he wants a Second Consideration Stage, up to the end of the whole Bill, he should ask leave of the House and go for the Second Consideration Stage where he will bring out those elements which were left out. But we cannot go forward and backward, that is not the normal way of handling Bills.
    Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
    I know that is not the normal way, but we have not heard him yet, so we do not know what he intends doing.
    Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:20 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, you may recall that we ourselves accepted that the absence of the hon. Minister was creating some problems so we said we were going to suspend further action on the matter for the hon. Minister to come; and that the hon. Deputy Majority Leader was supposed to meet with the hon.
    Minister and the hon. Chairman to sort this thing out.
    So this is not like just a question that we went over that area. We agreed that certain things should be stood down to enable us get the hon. Minister involved. So if now he is ready, it would be better and nicer if we let him go through those things that we said we would wait for him to consider. I agree with him that ordinarily, we should have finished with it and come for Second Consideration, but this is a special case.
    Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
    But the point I am making is that we have not heard him. We do not know what he intends saying. Chairman of the Committee, let us hear you. Clause 6 (d) -
    Mr. Paul Okoh 10:20 a.m.
    Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Committee at the earlier Consideration Stage sought and got the House's approval to amend clause 6 (d) by deleting “end of service.” Upon further reflection, the Committee concluded that the payment the clause talked about was in respect of terminal benefits and therefore prayed the House to amend the clause by substituting “employment” with “end of service.” Mr. Speaker, what we did the other time was that we deleted “end of service” but after considering it, we feel that we should rather delete “employment” and maintain the “end of service.”?
    Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
    So you are saying that we should rather delete “employment” and retain “end of service.”
    Mr. A. O. Aidooh 10:20 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I
    rise to support the amendment proposed because those benefits that are being secured or that have been paid arose after the closure of the enterprise. Therefore, they are terminal awards, end of service benefits, as opposed to employment
    benefits. Because, for all purposes, the employment has ceased with the closure of the enterprise. I support the amendment proposed.
    Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:20 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, much as I seem to understand the issue raised by hon. Colleagues, I am not too sure -- We are talking about terminal awards and does it not find congruence in severance award? We have talked about the payment of severance awards in that sub-clause the payment of severance awards.. So unless maybe with severance award, they are talking about the curtailment of employment only, I am too sure. End of service award, I believe, is in the same trajectory, Mr. Speaker.
    Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
    Hon. Majority Chief Whip, I was going to suggest that we leave it as it is and then we put our heads together.
    Mr. A. O. Aidooh 10:20 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I just want to create the impression that severance award can be one component of end of service benefit. End of service benefit is more generic; severance award may just be one item that may go into it. It may or may not be part of the end of service benefit. So we can have severance award and other end of service awards.
    Therefore, I strongly disagree with my hon. Colleague on my right (hon. Kyei- Mensah-Bonsu).
    Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
    Hon. Members, I am directing that whatever it is, we may revisit this, but in the meantime, let us go on, except the hon. Member for Abetifi may want to -
    Mr. E. A. Agyepong 10:20 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I wanted to draw the whole House attention to the fact that end of service award has been cancelled since 1990, so we cannot bring in end of service award. Again, severance award is different from end of
    service award. Severance award is given to Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA); it is not the same as giving a hand-out to an employee who is leaving. So we would have to be very careful and circumspect about the use of the phrase “end of service benefit”. If anything at all, we could use “ex-gratia award” as it has now been put. But end of service award has been cancelled since 1990 and has not been reinstated.
    Dr. Paa Kwesi Nduom 10:30 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, with due respect our Colleague is not entirely correct in this matter. Indeed, if you look at a number of the public organisations we are dealing with, they still do not have end of service agreements. Indeed, we are liable to pay a number of negotiated end of Service benefits and indeed the language really is “end of service benefits”. In the past, the previous Government did come up with a law where end of service benefits were supposed to have been replaced with Social Security and other kinds of agreement. But if you go through the practice and what is there, we do have end of service considerations to take care of; and that is a fact.
    Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
    Hon. Members, I am suggesting we go on with clause 13 and if there is the need to come back we will come back to it.
    Mr. Okoh 10:30 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the amend- ment proposed has already been defeated and I have no objection to that.
    Question put and motion agreed to.
    Clause 13 order to stand part of the Bill.
    Clause 14 - Conversion of category III subvented agency.
    Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
    Chairman of the Committee, you may move your amendment.
    1185 1 March , 2006 1187 Subvented Agencies Bill -- 1 March , 2006 Cons.
    Mr. Okoh 10:30 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, thank you. Mr. Speaker, the Committee at its meeting noted that the appointing authority of the governing board was the President and therefore decided to amend its proposed amendment thus -- delete “appoint a governing board” and insert ensure that a governing board is appointed.
    The committee further took issue with the phrase, “of being aware of that fact” in the same proposed amendment and held that such proviso could be used by ambitious Ministers as basis to ignore governing boards for unreasonable time periods under the guise of not being aware of the fact of non existence of a governing board. Accordingly, the Committee has decided to amend the proposed amendment for the entire subclause (14) to read as follows:
    “Where the statutory subvented agency does not at any time have a governing board, the sector Minister, shall within three months ensure that a governing board is appointed.
    Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:30 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I am not entirely getting my hon. Colleague right. They have in place of subclause (2) proposed an amendment and the amendment is in two parts. Is it the position now that the (b) that they have put in place is no longer coming in on board? It is one and the same amendment which they have divided into two, and so now that he is rendering another construction here, I do not know whether (b) will not be coming on board any longer. If (b) is not coming on board, he should let us know before the vote is taken.
    Mr. Okoh 10:30 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I thought we were dealing with 14 (2) (a) but the proposed subclause (2) (b) however
    1189 Subvented Agencies Bill -- 1 March , 2006 Cons.
    Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
    There is a further
    amendment. Hon. Chairman please move the amendment.
    Mr. Okoh 10:30 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, clause 16 -
    Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
    There is a further amendment to clause 2 (a) now 2 (b). Are you deleting it?
    Mr. Okoh 10:30 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, that was what I read. Mr. Speaker clause 14 (2) (b) the proposed sub clause however remains unchanged as until a governing board is appointed under subclause (a) the functions of the governing board shall be performed by the Minister”.
    Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:30 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the original construction which has been split into two now by the Committee and which is being piloted by the Chairman of the Committee is that the Minister is empowered to delegate such responsibility which may rely on him to the Commission. Is it the position now from the Committee that that recourse is no longer necessary or relevant? Is it the position that at any given time, it is only the Minister who may perform such functions and that he cannot delegate that responsibility to the Commission?
    Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
    Chairman of the Committee, the question is, that are you deleting this clause or what are you doing to it?
    Mr. Okoh 10:30 a.m.
    Yes, Mr. Speaker, we are deleting that because we believe that Ministers have got such delegatory powers
    and therefore it is not important for us to repeat that here.
    Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
    Alright, so you are deleting it?
    Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:30 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I have had discussions with the Sector Minister and much as I agree with the proposal, I think the Chairman is totally wrong in the argument that he is giving. He is giving a completely different reason. My understanding is that the “Commission” in the Bill refers to the State Enterprises Commission and for the reason that they do not cover all the agencies, in this case we are allowing the Minister to take the decision. I think that is plausible; but my Colleague is on another path altogether.
    Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
    Chairman of the Committee?
    Mr. Okoh 10:30 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, my response is that I will ask the hon. Chief Whip for his education.
    Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
    So what are you saying?
    Mr. Okoh 10:30 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I am saying that the amendment as proposed should be carried.
    Question put and amendment agreed to
    Clause 14 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clause 15 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clause 16 - Creation of Subvented Agency.
    Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
    Chairman of the Committee, please move your amend- ment.
    Mr. Okoh 10:30 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the Com- mittee decided to withhold the proposed amendment, noting that the original clause was in line with the memorandum of the Bill which has the intention of making the creation of subvented agencies dependent on parliamentary approval. The object of the change is also to create such subvented agencies as public corporations.
    Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
    So the amendment to clause 16 is withdrawn, is it not?
    Mr. Okoh 10:40 a.m.
    That is so Mr. Speaker.

    Question put and amendment agreed to

    Clause 16 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

    Clause 17 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

    Clause 18 - Regulations
    Mr. Okoh 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the Com- mittee has decided not to pursue the proposed amendment having realized that the proposed amendment if carried out would tie the hands of the Minister and stifle the hon. Minister's initiative, since the proposed amendment restricts the hon. Minister to propose regulations only on the recommendation of the Commission.
    Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, so that the clause will synchronize with the Bills that we have passed, the construction should be “The Minister in consultation with the Commission…” So we delete the word “after” and insert “in”. That will make it synchronize with all those that we have done. I believe it does not do violence to the construction.
    1191 Subvented Agencies Bill -- 1 March , 2006 Cons.
    Mr. Okoh 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I have no objection to that.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 18 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clause 19 - Interpretation
    Mr. Okoh 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that the proposed amendment be amended by deleting the word “indicated” and inserting the word “provided” to make it conform with normal drafting language so that the proposed amendment becomes, “except otherwise provided.”
    Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
    Are you amending the proposed amendment?
    Mr. Okoh 10:40 a.m.
    That is so, Mr. Speaker.
    Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
    So let us have it again.
    Mr. Okoh 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, what I am saying is that the Committee is amending the proposed amendment by deleting the word “indicated” and inserting “provided.”
    Mr. Ofori Boafo 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the opening paragraph of clause 19 states, “In this Act, unless otherwise required…”, Mr. Speaker, I do not see the need for us to go down to line 12 to insert another, “except otherwise provided”, it is a repetition. It does not serve any purpose at all because it is already provided for under the opening paragraph of clause 19.
    Mr. Okoh 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think we can accept that, I have no objection to it.
    Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
    So what are you now doing?
    Mr. Okoh 10:40 a.m.
    So what we are trying to do here is that - [Interruption.]
    Mr. A. O. Aidooh 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think he is trying to withdraw the whole amendment. It is being withdrawn, that is what he is saying, in view of what hon. Boafo said.
    Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
    Are you withdrawing the entire amendment?
    Mr. Okoh 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, yes.
    Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I thought that because we may not continuously have a Ministry designated as “… Public Sector Reform”, the meaning of the word “Minister” means Minister responsible for Public Sector Reform. But how it has been captured with “P”, “S” and “R”; refers to the Ministry. But we are saying that it is any Minister who is “responsible for public sector reform”, for that job, not for the Ministry for which reason I believe that if there is any amendment for that line then we rather would have to make the Public small “p”, the Sector small “s” and Reform small “r”. That would mean that the Minister responsible for that enterprise, that job and that is what is required of the Chairman to have done. Mr. Speaker, so if the Chairman would not mind, I would want to move, that in place of the “Public Sector Reform” beginning with “P, “S and “R”, we drop the capital letters and replace them with small letters.
    Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
    Chief Whip, it is not time to move; let us listen to the Chairman.
    Mr. Okoh 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I do not seem to understand what the Chief Whip is talking about. I would want to go by the decision taken by the hon. Deputy
    Minister; and I would want the whole amendment withdrawn.
    rose
    Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
    The Chairman is withdrawing his amendment; what do you have to say?
    Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I entirely agree with the Deputy Minister for Defence. That one, I think we have consensus on that; we do agree. But further to that, I am proposing this new addition. I think the Chairman said that he does not understand what I said but I think I am right.
    Clause 19 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    The Long Title ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
    Hon. Members, we have come to the end of the Consideration Stage of the Subvented Agencies Bill.
    Mr. Okoh 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, at the beginning, I craved your indulgence to let us go back to clause 6(d). One of the clauses was stood down; if we could look at that.
    Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I understand the issue raised by the Chairman of the Committee, but Mr. Speaker, you may recall that in the absence of the hon. Minister, certain issues cropped up and we stood further consideration down to await the arrival of the hon. Minister just so that we could put our heads together on some other
    1193 Subvented Agencies Bill -- 1 March , 2006 Cons.
    Mr. Speaker 10:50 a.m.
    Majority Chief Whip, in any case, we have come to the end of the Consideration Stage.
    Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, that is so. But I said that we can take his during the Second Consideration Stage; that was what I said.
    Mr. Speaker 10:50 a.m.
    When the time comes.
    Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:50 a.m.
    Very well, Mr. Speaker.
    Mr. Speaker 10:50 a.m.
    Deputy Majority Leader, at this stage, are there any indications?
    Mr. A. O. Aidooh 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, there are important committee meetings, the one by the Appointments Committee and the Judiciary Committee to vet nominees to the Supreme Court; and there are other equally important committee meetings. So I beg to move that we adjourn proceedings to tomorrow morning at 10.00 o'clock so that committees can begin to meet.
    Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to second the motion.
    Question put and motion agreed to.
    ADJOURNMENT 10:50 a.m.
  • The House was accordingly adjourned at 10.52 a.m. till 2nd March, 2006 at 10.00 a.m.