Debates of 26 Jul 2006

MR. SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:20 a.m.

Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Order! Order!
COMMUNICATION FROM THE 10:20 a.m.

PRESIDENT 10:20 a.m.

PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF GHANA 10:20 a.m.

OFFICE OF PARLIAMENT 10:20 a.m.

PARLIAMENT HOUSE 10:20 a.m.

OFFICE OF THE VICE PRESIDENT 10:20 a.m.

STATE HOUSE 10:20 a.m.

CORRECTION OF VOTES 10:20 a.m.

AND PROCEEDINGS AND 10:20 a.m.

THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:20 a.m.

Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Correction of Votes and Proceedings of Tuesday, 25th July, 2006. [No correction was made in the Votes and Proceedings.]
Hon. Members, we do not have any
Official Report. Item 3 - Questions.
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I am inclined to believe that the Minister for Energy may be travelling to Liberia to commission the electricity and I am trying to get the Deputy Minister to be around. At the moment, we can ask the Minister for Education, Science and Sports to take his Questions.
Mr. E. K. D. Adjaho 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would want to find out from him when he got to know that the Minister is travelling. In fact, he said he even believed that he was travelling. Because most times we have allowed Deputy Ministers to answer Questions on behalf of their Ministers when they are not available. When did he get to know of that?
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Majority Leader, is the Deputy Minister for Energy available?
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, that is why I am trying to suggest that we make progress by changing the order and letting the Minister for Education, Science and Sports -- and I am sure by the time we finish the Questions on Education, I would be in a better position to tell you where the Minister for Energy is and when his Deputy will be in the House to respond to the Question.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Is the Minister for
Education, Science and Sports in?
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, he is around.
Mr. Adjaho 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, yesterday my attention was drawn to an Urgent Question which was advertised for this morning. The Question has vanished from the Order Paper and the person who asked the Question informed me that nobody has informed him as to why the Question has vanished from the Order Paper.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Majority Leader, in the Business Statement for this week, we have an Urgent Question, what has happened to that?
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:20 a.m.
If he can be explicit in indicating who asked the Question.
Maj. (Dr.) (Alhaji) Ahmed (retd): Mr. Speaker, the Question stood in my name and it was advertised yesterday for this morning but it is not on today's Order Paper.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
I noticed that in the Business Statement for this week.
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I believe this is the Question for the Ministry of Aviation. Mr. Speaker, normally, what we do is that if by about 7.00 o'clock in the evening, we have not got the Answer, then there will be no point putting the Question there; and we have not got any inclination also from the Minister. When I checked, I was told that we have not heard from the Minister. I am now going to find out what happened and therefore, there will be no need for us to argue now. We need to find out.
Mr. Speaker, let us be clear on this matter. Last Friday, I had a message from
the Upper East Regional Minister that the first time he got to know that he had been asked to Answer a Question was a day before, when he was speaking to me and for that reason he was not in a position to come and answer. I have discussed with the person who put up the Question that we should therefore reschedule it.
Unfortunately, in this particular case, it looked like we did not have information as to whether he had received the Question or he was going to be around. So I said in that case, they should not put it on while I checked up. If I check up and we get a good answer, we can reschedule it for tomorrow or the next day.
Mr. Adjaho 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, with the greatest respect, when it comes to Urgent Questions, the Answers are not advertised, so I do not know why the hon. Majority Leader is saying that they have not got the Answer. We do not print written Answers with regard to Urgent questions -- in the Order Paper. Maybe, he has to give this House a better reason why the hon. Minister for Aviation is not here to answer the Question.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Majority Leader, is it possible to have this Question answered tomorrow or Friday?
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, in fact, I indicated that I was going to find out a bit more and as the Clerk advised me, what we tried to do was to get an indication as to the availability of the Minister. Yes, it is an Urgent Question scheduled, but unfortunately, she (the Minister) is not a Member of Parliament and therefore we need to talk to the person and be sure. That is why I am saying that let us give ourselves time to find out what is happening and let us make progress by getting the Minister for Education, Science and Sports to answer the Questions whilst I go downstairs to find out what is happening.
Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Question 539.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 10:30 a.m.

MINISTRY OF EDUCATION, 10:30 a.m.

SCIENCE AND SPORTS 10:30 a.m.

Mr. Osei-Sarfo 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, in view
of the capitation grant and the increase in the number of enrolment in basic schools, has the Ministry of Education, Science and Sports any plans to establish a senior secondary school to absorb the numerous graduands from the basic level in the Krachi West constituency and for that matter, the Nchumburu traditional area?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, as I said, certain criterion must be met before the Ministry, through the District Assembly, would consider establishing a
Mr. Osei-Sarfo 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, my worry is that Chindere, Banda, Zungu, Manchere, Borae No. 2, Guribi, Bafre and Begyamso are fairly large towns with more than half of the population of the Krachi West District. They are about 60 kilometres to the nearest senior secondary school. It is in this view that I want the Minister to consider or if the Minister will consider to instructing the Volta Regional Administration of the Ghana Education Service to establish such a senior secondary school in the area.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
we have a procedure that has to be followed; and there must be infrastructure in place. For instance, the school must have at least six large well-ventilated classrooms with well-screeded concrete floors, spacious enough to accommodate
forty students each. Then there must be windows, there must be illumination, there must be a three-unit furnished and equipped science laboratory.
This infrastructure is not provided overnight and having regard to the concern obviously exhibited by the hon. Member, I would request that he should refer the matter to the District Assembly -- they know the requirements -- then it will be further forwarded to the Volta Regional Director's office and then we will take it up from there.
The Government will want to establish secondary schools in every nook and cranny of this country but having regard to the financial challenges we face as a nation, it is not possible. Elsewhere, what has been done is for communities on their own to establish private senior secondary schools and then invite the Government to absorb them into the public system.
I know that the hon. Member is very industrious and he should use that industry and resourcefulness to assist the community to put up the necessary infrastructure and I promise him that the Ministry will take it up from there.
Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Question 561.
Attacks on University Campuses
Q. 561. Mr. Akwasi Afrifa asked the
Minister for Education, Science and Sports what measures the Ministry had taken to bring to an end the sporadic attacks and sometimes killings that take place on our university campuses.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
the Ministry's attention has been drawn to the recent spate of attacks, harassment, stealing and sometimes killing on some campuses of our universities, especially Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology (KNUST) and University
of Cape Coast (UCC).
Mr. Speaker, this development on our university campuses is very worrying and must be totally condemned.
Mr. Speaker, much as the Ministry would like to intervene directly in such situations, there are structures in the universities that deal with internal security matters. The Ministry however made due enquiries and has received reports on measures being taken by the affected universities to check the occurrence of such anti-social activities.
Mr. Speaker, for KNUST, the following measures have been put in place 10:30 a.m.
1. There is joint Military/Police and university security patrol on the campuses between 10.00 p.m. and 5.00 p.m.
2. With the help of the Police, residents/members of staff have been encouraged to form community watchdog committees to beef up security. An example is the Hall Six Watchdog Committee for residents of the Hall Six Community.
3. There are also joint Police/ Military patrols at nearby private student hostels.
4 Furthermore, all gates to the university with the exception of the main gate are closed from 10.00 p.m. to 6.00 a.m. daily and all vehicles entering and leaving campus between these hours use the main gate for security and are also subjected to rigorous checks.
Mr. Speaker, for KNUST, the following measures have been put in place 10:40 a.m.


5. All students and staff owning vehicles have been requested to register them with the Security Services and Estate Organizations for stickers to be issued for purposes of easy identification.

6. And of course, all unregistered and unlicensed motorbikes on campus have been banned from the campus between 5.00 pm and 6.00 am.

7. All student associations have been directed to register with the Dean of Students and to avoid any secret society or occultic groupings on campus. Before permission is granted to these associations to operate, thorough background checks are done on the members of the association and its leaders.

8. Students have been advised to walk in groups, especially at night and avoid dark areas.

9. General lighting on campus has been improved to enhance visibility at night.

10. Private hostels too have been advised to provide security at their hostels.

11. Students have been advised not to openly display their mobile phones and other attractive electronic gadgets.

In the case of the University of Cape Coast, the following measures, we were informed, have been put in place:

1. There are daily patrols between 6.00 pm and 6.00 am by the campus security and personnel of the Ghana Police Service.

2. The University's major gates are jointly manned by university security and the police.

3. A permanent police post has been established on campus to assist the university security on campus.

4. Logistic support to the university security has been improved to enable them step up their security activit ies on the campus.

5. Of course, the students have been educated on the need to observe basic personal safety precautions and the Police Public Affairs Directorate has been playing a major role in this regard.

Additionally, the authorities of the

University of Cape Coast have decided to wall off the sections of the university that interface with the communities with designated entry points to be manned by the university's Security to control the movement of the residents of these communities, in and out of the campus.

And of course, all the other universities

in the country have been advised to put security high on their agenda and make adequate budget provision for it.

Mr. Speaker, the Ministry is closely

monitoring the situation and universities have been advised to contact the Ministry if they have any difficulties with regard to the provision of security on their campuses.
Mr. Akwasi Afrifa 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
may I know from the hon. Minister the type of training that the security guards on campuses are given, whether the universities collaborate with the security institutions in the country to give them the best of training that they deserve?
Papa Owusu Ankomah 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
that is so. And even in situations where the university security personnel feel that they are not capable of providing security on the campuses, they call on the police for assistance.
Mr. Afrifa 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am satisfied
with the Answer. Thank you.
Mr. C. S. Hodogbey 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the
hon. Minister has listed various methods of checking the attackers or the killings on the campuses. The hon. Minister was one- time the Minister of the Interior so I want to find out whether they have been able to identify the attackers or the circumstances which led to all these killings. Sometimes, they may be among the students. Have they been able to identify them after taking all these measures? The people could still be within and the killings can continue.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I am no longer the Minister responsible for the Interior. However, I am aware that even in terms of their investigations there were undercover operations in the universities to investigate some of these crimes. Some individual students who were suspected of having been involved in some of these crimes were continuously monitored.
As of now, I cannot give him a definite Answer. And it is not as if there was a killing spree on campuses. Indeed, at the University of Cape Coast, I know that there were about two murders and all these incidents of crime are being thoroughly investigated by the police.
Kpando District (Model Senior Secondary School)
Q. 572. Ms. Akua Sena Dansua asked
the Minister for Education, Science and Sports, what the Ministry was doing to urgently provide Kpando District with a model senior secondary school since Peki Secondary School which was picked for upgrading in the Kpando District has now moved into the newly created South
Dayi District.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Ministry will get in touch with the Kpando District Assembly, especially the District Education Oversight Committee (DEOC) and the District Planning Team (DPT) to recommend a school in that district for consideration.
The hon. Member who is also an ex-
officio member of the District Assembly could also draw the attention of the District Assembly to this fact and encourage them to as soon as possible write to the Ministry indicating the school that they have identified to be upgraded into a model senior secondary school.
But having said this, I want hon. Members to bear in mind that this project of upgrading is being done in phases. Not all the schools picked will see work commence. The Ministry has decided to commence a few, finish them or complete them on time, and then move on to another phase. But ultimately, all the districts of this country will have a model senior secondary school and I hope when they get these schools, the students within the districts will be encouraged to patronize them.
Ms. Akua Dansua 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
want to know from the hon. Minister if his Ministry does not have the Policy Planning and Implementation Unit which has a list of all these schools and which should be in a position to advise him on such situations when they arise.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
the Ministry does not decide on schools to be upgraded, it is the districts that have to decide. For instance, the newly created districts will have to wait for their turns because some have been started and there are some that have been identified in the
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:50 a.m.


second phase. So we have a monitoring team - we have 138 districts and we have not even covered half of the old districts. So that new district, the district of the hon. Member will await its turn - at the bottom of the queue.
Ms. Dansua 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to
find out from the hon. Minister if he is not being unfair to Kpando District because the district was in the first phase of this programme and now that a new district has been created, which has taken the selected school out of Kpando District, why is he saying that we should wait and take our turn at the bottom of the list? Is he not being unfair to Kpando District?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I believe that equity is fairness. When a request comes, it is on the basis of first- come-first-served. That district had its turn but due to certain circumstances, the school was moved to the newly-created district. So for purposes of the first-come- first-served policy of the Ministry, the district will have to await its turn; that is all I am saying.
It is not a hard and fast rule; other matters are taken into consideration. We have Kpando Secondary School. It is a first class secondary school. And so when another school within the same catchment area has to be upgraded into a model school, it may not be considered to be urgently required because we have Kpando Secondary School. But as I have already indicated, there are other things that we take into consideration and when we get the request, it will be properly evaluated, based on the laid-down criterion. Where special circumstances require, we would consider pushing it ahead of others that have already been lined up for upgrading.
Ms. Dansua 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would
like to know from the hon. Minister if he would consider the request from Kpando District a special request when it is made.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
when the Assembly responds to the request, the request will be considered, having regard to all the circumstances.
Children of School Going Age in Abutia Traditional Area
Q. 574. Mr. Francis Aggrey Agbotse asked the Minister for Education, Science and Sports whether the Ministry is aware that about 450 children of school going age in Forsime Dzroawode and Wukpo in the Abutia Traditional Area were not in school because of lack of school infrastructure.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, as the Ministry has been made aware of the situation, the Ho Municipal Chief Executive, the District Education Oversight Committee (DEOC) and the District Planning Team (DPT) will be requested to carry out their responsi- bilities by putting up the necessary infrastructure for the use of the children.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. Member is a prominent member of the Assembly, and I am sure that he has already referred this matter to the Ho District Assembly; and I will urge him to exert pressure on the Assembly to put up the necessary infrastructure. However, be that as it may, the Ministry has a programme of putting up more schools and we are expecting that by the beginning of next year, the process will be accelerated.
Mr. Agbotse 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, this Question was presented to this House as an Urgent Question. For about six months now, the Question was with the Ministry. Has the Ministry since taken any step to consult the Ho Municipal
Chief Executive, the District Education Oversight Committee, and the District Planning Team?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, we have done so and we have been advised that owing to financial challenges being faced by the Assembly, they have not been able to put up the necessary infrastructure. But in their budgetary allocation, they made provision for the infrastructure for basic schools. The requests are so many and that is why they have not been able to commence this project. And I am sure the hon. Member, being a member of the Assembly, is aware of the financial challenges that the Assembly claims it is facing in so far as the provision of infrastructure for basic schools is concerned.
Mr. Agbotse 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, these areas
are peculiar areas because of their isolation from major towns. Should these poor children wait until there is money before they are educated? Should they wait?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I am sure that the hon. Member, if resources permitted, would have used his entire allocation of the District Assemblies Common Fund to do this. Where you are faced with a financial challenge, we just hope and pray that we get money from other sources.
I would have loved that immediately this Question was posed by the hon. Member, the Ministry would forget about all that it is doing and then go and put up the structure. But there are planned programmes and we have to take each request as they come. But the hon. Member should rest assured that the Ministry will take up this matter and consider how best it can assist to provide the necessary infrastructure. But Mr. Speaker, the truth is that the initiative must come from the District Assembly of which
the hon. Member is a very prominent member.
Mr. Agbotse 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would
like to assure the hon. Minister that when I realised this programme, I went to the education office to find out how we could co-operate to give them even temporary structures. But I was informed at the District Education Directorate, that even if the structures were put there, they would not send teachers there because of the isolation of the places. So my question is, what is the actual plan of the Ministry after all these months that the Question has been with them, to provide these children with teachers and school infrastructure?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, if there is a school we would endeavour to provide teachers. We are engaging pupil teachers; we have even got a programme under the Ministry of Manpower, Youth and Employment to recruit about six thousand pupil teachers so that where we are having problems with teachers they can also assist. So I wish to assure the hon. Member that if it is identified that there is a school there that needs teachers, the Ministry would endeavour to provide the teachers.
Mr. A. K. Agbesi 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to know from the hon. Minister whether he would consider it as a matter of priority and urgency to personally move to that village to see the plight of these four hundred and fifty children who are not going to school, so that when he comes back to his office in Accra he would have known the seriousness of the situation and take an urgent action to solve the problem facing these unfortunate children.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, it is my plan to visit almost
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11 a.m.


every community in this country to see for myself the infrastructure of schools, but you would all agree with me that it is humanly impossible to do this even within two years, if I devote all my time as a Minister to visit these various areas.

However, I wish to assure the hon. Member that this is not the only area where there is the need to put up basic school infrastructure. The Ministry has a programme with the support of donors to put up a lot of schools; and you would note that due to the recognition of the good work being done by this Government in terms of the provision of basic education, the United Kingdom has pledged a £105 million support for basic education, for the next ten years.

So when we finalize all these things we would have an acceleration of the infrastructure being put up in very remote areas of this country. But that is not to say that we are not doing anything. Hon. Members would bear me out that almost every district is putting up new basic school structures. But the fact is that the needs are many but the resources limited, and so we would have to move step by step; so far as there are children, there would always be the need to put up new basic school infrastructure.
Mr. Speaker 11 a.m.
Hon. Minister for Education, Science and Sports, thank you very much for coming to answer these Questions. Hon. Deputy Minister for Energy?
MINISTRY OF ENERGY 11 a.m.

Mr. Ackah 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Sui Ano community is not under consideration for the ongoing Phase 1 of the SHEP-4. May I know from the hon. Deputy Minister how many phases have been earmarked for the SHEP-4 and under which of them specifically he is considering Sui Ano.
Mr. Hammond 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, it is flexible but we believe that we may have three phases under the current SHEP. We are now in one; we would certainly go to two; we would go to three but Mr. Speaker, depending on the communities which are left and what we have estimated to do, we might go to four, but it is likely that we would go to 3.
Mr. Ackah 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to know specifically when the phase two would be started so that if Sui Ano is considered it would form part of it.
Mr. Hammond 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, we would not know. We want to be sure that we have completed SHEP-1 and there is money. I have reiterated in this House so many times that we need about US$350 million to complete these projects that we are undertaking.
Mr. Speaker, I would not be able to tell this House that we are starting phase two of SHEP-4 today or the day after. What we know is that we would require some money to complete with the first phase of it which we are currently undertaking. But the one which is certainly under SHEP-4, we can assure the hon. Member that it would form part of the subsequent two or three or possibly fourth phases of this SHEP. There is not one without a phase; we have got phases for them.
Mr. Ackah 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I know that one of the major eligibility criteria for communities to enjoy the SHEP is the acquisition of poles, but looking at the financial constraints of most of these smaller communities, may I know from the hon. Minister if he would consider supporting these small communities with poles so that they can also access the facility?
Mr. Hammond 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I made an appeal in this House the other day to hon. Members, that they should consider releasing their own Common Fund for this purpose - [Interruption] - I have also appealed to the District Assemblies to help the various communities. But of course, if he thinks the community would want some assistance and he wants it to be treated as a special case, I do not see why he cannot write to the Ministry, bearing in mind that it would be treated outside the scope of our eligibility criterion.
Ex-Pump Prices of Petroleum Products
Q. 441. Dr. Kwame Ampofo asked the Minister for Energy to explain how the current ex-pump prices of petroleum products were arrived at, particularly for petrol, diesel, kerosene and LPG from crude oil prices of $57.68 per barrel for BB and $59.65 per barrel for light crude.
Mr. Hammond 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, following the decision by Government to deregulate the petroleum downstream market in 1994, pricing of petroleum products has been based on import parity. Product pricing is therefore not derived from crude oil prices but rather from the international product prices as published by Platt.
Mr. Speaker, the current petroleum product prices were arrived at using import parity pricing mechanism for all products based on the average prices on the international market for all the different products. The 5-day window around the bill of lading date is what is used to price the products. So for example, if a ship was loaded on July 6 then it is the average of the Platt prices quoted for the period July 4 to July 8 that would be used to price the product FOB (Free on Board). In other words, the FOB price would be the Platt average of the day of loading plus 2 days and minus 2 days.
Mr. Speaker, to the FOB price is then added the freight and insurance which are all derived from the competitive tender supervised by the National Petroleum Authority (NPA). The sum of the FOB price, Freight and Insurance is the CIF costs in dollar per metric tonne ($/MT).
Related charges which cover bank charges, in-plant losses, rack loading costs, storage costs, financial charges, CBM costs, port and wharfage dues, inspection charges, traders premium, et cetera, are then added to arrive at the ex- refinery price in $/MT which is like the landed price at Tema.
Mr. Speaker, the ex-refinery cost in $/MT is then converted to $/Litre by multiplying it by the Conversion factor for each product. This is then converted into cedis/litre by multiplying by the Bank of Ghana weighted exchange rate average for the period.
Mr. Hammond 11:10 a.m.


Mr. Speaker, the different taxes and levies which are backed by Acts of Parliament are then applied to the ex- refinery price in cedis per litre to give the ex-depot price.

Transporters', dealers' and marketers' margins which are negotiated by the NPA and the various stakeholders are then added to the ex-depot price to arrive at the ex-pump price.
Dr. Ampofo 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, from the Answer given by the hon. Minister, it is now clear that the pricing of petroleum products, as he claims, does not begin with the price of crude oil. But the Government has constantly been making us understand or believe that crude oil prices -- As they are rising, that is what are being used to determine the price. That is why on the front page of the Daily Graphic each day the price of crude oil is advertised.
Dr. Ampofo 11:10 a.m.
It is a question. It is all
Dr. Ampofo 11:10 a.m.
If he cannot answer it he
Mr. Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Order! Let him ask his question.
Dr. Ampofo 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am asking that how is the disparity, if any, between the Tema Oil Refinery's ex-refinery at the gate and the import parity landed cost that the hon. Minister is talking about factored or accounted for in the pricing build-up?
Mr. Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon. Member for South Dayi, would you be kind enough to repeat your question.
Dr. Ampofo 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I will simplify it. The question is: What are the prices of various petroleum products at the Tema Oil Refinery's factory gate; and how do they compare with the import parity prices? If there are any disparities even, how are they considered or factored into the pricing build-up?
Mr. Hammond 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, it has consistently been said that this matter is extremely technical and people should be very careful when they are handling it. Mr. Speaker, everybody now has become an expert in petroleum pricing, petroleum mechanism - [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker, now the product of that thinking is the question that the hon. Member has just asked. Mr. Speaker, it is convoluted; it is confused, and it has no relationship to what the reality is. Mr. Speaker, he did say that we have persistently been saying that petroleum pricing is not based on crude products. Mr. Speaker, he was obviously not paying enough attention to what I was saying.
Mr. Speaker, to arrive at the price, what NPA does is this 11:10 a.m.
Because the bulk of the product is procured by way of crude --because at the Tema Oil Refinery the
price is quoted in barrels and in dollars. But there is another way of arriving at the pricing. Those with the technical expertise at NPA tell us - [Interruptions] - I am not going to read it now - [Interrup-tions.]
Mr. Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon. Members, allow him to refresh his memory, if at all.
Mr. Hammond 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am going to educate them on this matter because they are fairly confused about that - [Interruptions.]
Mr. Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Order! Order!
Mr. Hammond 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the bulk of it is in crude; for the Tema Oil Refinery, it is in dollars - [Interruptions] -- Well, they do not appear to know but the experts are telling us that to arrive at the price what they are going to do is to do what they call import parity pricing.
Mr. Speaker, they have got to understand the two. Import parity pricing means this 11:20 a.m.
Even though the crude is priced in dollars and then in barrels, we are bringing it from say Amsterdam, Rotterdam, or wherever we are bringing it from. There, we are not bringing it in crude; we are bringing it in product.

What is the price of that product when it arrives in Ghana? Mr. Speaker, for the purpose of this calculation it is taken that Ghana has no refinery; there is no Tema Oil Refinery. What it is, is that simply we are bringing in products to this country. So the product as landed, with all the prices that I have indicated in this House, is then taken into account and then you get to, first, the ex-refinery. Mr. Speaker, the ex-refinery is what he means by the gate of Tema Oil Refinery; that is the ex-refinery. And then, Mr. Speaker, with
Mr. Hammond 11:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker - [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Deputy Minister, if you have finished answering the question, you may resume your seat.
Mr. Hammond 11:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I will
finish in one second. Mr. Speaker, with respect, in these matters I will plead with hon. Members, that we would have to be open-minded. Those who do not understand would have to learn. Mr. Speaker, too much talking, too much argument will not let us collectively understand this. It is a technical matter and let those technicians who understand educate all of us so we can understand.
Dr. Ampofo 11:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am sorry but with all those lengthy words he did not answer the question.
Mr. Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Hon. Member, if you have a question, please ask.
Dr. Ampofo 11:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, if he does not have an answer for this one he should say he does not have it; but he has not answered it. For his next question - [Laughter] -- Before the question comes I want him to understand that I am asking this as a technical person.
Mr. Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Hon. Member, please ask your question; we do not have much time.
Dr. Ampofo 11:20 a.m.
The question is this: What is the percentage of the ex-pump price or what percentage of the ex-pump price constitutes government taxes and levies? The other way round, government taxes and levies constitute what percentage of the ex-pump price?
Mr. Hammond 11:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the last time when we calculated it, it was about 38 per cent; I am not sure it has been affected greatly. [Interruptions.] It was 38 per cent but it has - [Interruptions.]
Mr. Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Order!
Mr. Hammond 11:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the current calculation I would not have thought --The taxes have not been
Mr. Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Hon. Member for South Dayi, do you have other questions?
Dr. Ampofo 11:20 a.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to inform the hon. Minister that I also do the calculations.
Mr. Speaker 11:20 a.m.
No, no; please ask a question.
Dr. Ampofo 11:20 a.m.
And that the percentage -- [Interruption] - If I say he is aware he will say he is not aware. I am telling him that the percentage - [Interrup-tion.]
Mr. Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Hon. Member, please ask a question. [Interruptions.] Order!
Dr. Ampofo 11:20 a.m.
All right; I am changing the question. [Uproar.] Mr. Speaker, my final question is this, that in his Answer he said that the NPA goes to negotiate for the dealers' margins and all that. If that is so, is section 43 (1) of the NPA Act which is against cartelization not being contravened, since that method cannot induce competition into the market?
Mr. Hammond 11:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, can I have some clarity in this question, please?
Mr. Speaker 11:20 a.m.
If you want him to repeat, let him repeat -- Then resume your seat. Hon. Member for South Dayi, would you be kind enough to repeat your question?
Dr. Ampofo 11:20 a.m.
My question is this, that in his Answer he says that transporters' dealers' and marketers' margins which are negotiated by the NPA and the various stakeholders are then added to the ex-depot price to arrive at the ex-pump price. The question is this, that section 43 (1) of the NPA Act, and with your kind permission I read so that it will be clearer:
“The Board shall in the performance of its functions take the necessary measures in compliance with the Protection Against Unfair Competition Act 2000 to prevent the formation of cartels, monopolies and unfair competition in the petroleum downstream industry.”
So my question is - Since that negotiation is big, is it not rather promoting cartelization? And what are we doing to eliminate that process of fixing the margin?
Mr. Hammond 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, there is no conflict between the practice and the law as the hon. Member has quoted. Mr. Speaker, by its very nature when they put in the tender, various stakeholders or traders put in various prices for whatever margin we are talking about; it is then for the NPA to sit down with them and negotiate. There are practices in the market; everybody knows what the system is. So Mr. Speaker, they negotiate - “Will you pay this?” “No, we think this, we think that”. And that is it. That is not creating any cartel that he is talking about. So no, Mr. Speaker, there is no conflict.

Towns and Villages in the Bimbilla Constituency (Electricity)

Q. 443. Mr. Ibn Mohammed Abass asked the Minister for Energy when the following towns and villages in the
Mr. Hammond 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the above-mentioned communities form part of the ongoing SHEP-4, Phase-1 project. Installation works are ongoing in these communities even though delay has been experienced due to the non-availability of the full complement of Low Voltage (LV) poles in the communities. Work in these communities is scheduled for completion by the end of the year.
Mr. Abass 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Deputy Minister whether the problem of non-availability of low voltage poles has been solved, since he has given a deadline for completion as being the end of this year.
Mr. Hammond 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, we have
made an appeal to the hon. Member and we have made an appeal to the District Assembly, and it is anticipated that they will respond to our clarion call for help to those communities, and that work will be on schedule for completion by the end of the year.
Communities in the Hohoe South Constituency (Electricity)
Q.444. Mr. Joseph Z. Amenowode asked the Minister for Energy when the following communities would be connected to the national electricity grid:
(i) Kpeve Tornu
(ii) Kpeve Adigbotornu
(iii) Have Aveyoyoe
(iv) Nyagbo Kume
(v) Logba Horglikofe
(vi) Ve Kpoetive; and
(vii) Liati Teikrom.
Mr. Hammond 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Kpeve Tornu, Liati Teikrom, Logba H o rg l i k o f e a n d N y a g b o K u m e communities form part of the SHEP-4. These communities however do not form part of the ongoing SHEP-4, Phase-1 project. The communities would therefore be connected to the national electricity grid in the subsequent phases of the SHEP- 4 when funds are available.
The Kpeve Adigbotornu, Have Aveyoyoe and Ve Kpoetive communities have not been listed under any of the on-going projects being carried out by the Ministry. They may have to apply for consideration subject to gratifying under our eligibility criteria.
Mr. Amenowode 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I really sympathise with the hon. Deputy Minister over his pronunciation of the names of the towns. Now, to the question. He mentioned that the towns are not in the current project but they would be considered in subsequent phases. I know that every Ministry has projections so
my question is whether he can give us a schedule for the implementation of the phases in SHEP-4; at least some rough schedule like, SHEP-4, Phase 2 would begin roughly in 2020 -- just a rough idea.
Mr. Hammond 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am
sorry if I got the pronunciations wrong; I was doing my best.
Mr. Speaker, but with respect to the timing and the time-frame, normally, a phase would take us about two or two and a half years to complete. So as I indicated in my Answer to the previous Question, if there are three phases, you just have a multiple of the years that I have indicated; that is about a rough guide.
But again, Mr. Speaker, it is a question
of finance. So it is difficult to hazard a guess as to when we are going to undertake these things, if there is no money. But we are working frantically and the Government is doing all that it can to raise the relevant funding for this project.
Mr. Amenowode 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, with time, between the phases, as was done in the past, some of the communities have expanded; some communities within these areas have become very close. So my question is whether the Ministry will consider extensions -- Since some of the communities are just about 20 or 30 poles apart, I would want to know whether the Ministry will consider extending power from already connected communities to the nearby communities.
Mr. Hammond 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, it
depends on when the specific communities he is talking about were connected. There is a window of about 18 months. If it is within that period then the Ministry will take it up. If it is not, then we will refer them to the Electricity Company of Ghana. But if it is part of the ongoing project -- and we -- originally surveyed just part
of it -- I do not see any reason why we would not extend it. But the range is what I have given him.
Mr. Amenowode 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think
these communities that were mentioned were informed in a letter dated 2nd November 2000 of their inclusion in SHEP-4. And so they were encouraged to start acquiring poles and in some cases they were encouraged to construct concrete poles. The layouts have all been done and they have the maps and everything. Now, my question is that, in view of the changes in policy or systems, will the concrete poles made by the communities some six years ago still be valid when the SHEP finally takes off in about say, four years -- just by way of calculating?
Mr. Hammond 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, does the hon. Member want to know whether the concrete poles could be used?
Mr. Amenowode 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, they were advised by ECG at that time, in lieu of the wooden poles, to acquire concrete poles, that is cement poles. My question is whether these poles will still be valid because with the former Minister for Energy's reference to some poles as ECOMOG, I am just wondering if these concrete poles would also not be rejected when the time comes.
Mr. Hammond 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, if the hon. Member says that they were specifically asked to do it, then I have no difficulty. Mr. Speaker, we do know that some communities themselves undertake the construction of these concrete poles, and some of them turn out to be very dangerous. So if they measure up to the specific standards that we use, then there will not be any difficulty at all; we will use them.
Mr. Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Hon. Deputy Minister, thank you very much for appearing to answer the Questions.
STATEMENTS 11:40 a.m.

Mr. Daniel K. Abodakpi (NDC - Keta) 11:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the Statement, and in so doing I would want to
indicate that in sponsoring this Statement the Volta Caucus in Parliament is not pursuing a regional or sectarian agenda. We are motivated by the need to ensure equity in the distribution of state- funded university infrastructure throughout the country. Towards this end, we want to note that this Statement is as good for the Eastern Region as it is for the Volta Region because these are the two remaining regions without university infrastructure or campuses.
Secondly, we are also driven by the
need for us to put particular emphasis on technical university education. In so doing we are mindful of the national need to reorientate and refocus particularly tertiary education toward the felt needs of the Ghanaian economy as it confronts the challenges of fierce global competitiveness, especially in trade and development issues.
It has been mentioned elsewhere that, why is it that when our Government was in power we did not site a university in the Volta Region? I think that question is neither here nor there; it is a moot point. We do know that the cost of providing tertiary education is huge and that it can only be undertaken throughout the country in phases. Having, so to speak, sited these infrastructures throughout the country, we think that it is about time we urged the State and for that matter the Government to consider seriously providing same for the Volta and the Eastern Regions.

Capt. N. Effah-Dartey(retd) (NPP - Berekum): Mr. Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this Statement which I believe is very interesting and very critical.

Mr. Speaker, the thrust of the Statement
rose
Mr. Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Yes, hon. Member, do you have a point of order?
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 11:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, my hon. Colleague is misleading this House. The University of Development Studies has a campus in Kintampo in the Brong Ahafo Region, so for him to be saying that they do not have a campus of any of the universities there is wrong.
Capt. Effah-Dartey (retd): Mr. Speaker, the thrust of my hon. Colleague's Statement is that there is the need for a state-funded university, that is what he is saying and I agree with him. In fact, I was at Hohoe - Wli waterfalls. Mr. Speaker, if you go to Wli waterfalls -- and we do not have a campus of any university for
Mr. Speaker 11:50 a.m.
You may conclude soon.
Capt. Effah-Dartey (retd): Mr. Speaker, it is very interesting to bring to your attention that in Nalerigu, the people themselves used their hands and heads to build a slave wall, dating back to the 16th Century. If you go there today, you will see it. Why is it that any of our universities cannot build a tourism campus for training tourist development officers?
Mr. Speaker, I agree fully with my hon. Colleague from Hohoe South that the people of the Volta Region have a case; there is the need for a university in the Volta Region. There is need for a full-scale university in the Brong Ahafo Region, to be located hopefully in Berekum. And not only that, there is a case for the building of a university in Kwahu, on the mountains - Mpraeso and Abetifi.
Mr. Speaker, with these few words I support the Statement.
Mr. A. N. Tettey-Enyo (NDC - Ada) noon
Mr. Speaker, I think it is very important for those of us in this House who have problems with placement of their wards and children, around this time, to lend our support to the Statement on floor. I think you would all agree with me that this Statement, however slanted it is towards the interest of the Volta Region, is pointing to a very important need of this country -- the expansion of tertiary institutions in this country.
We all know of the large numbers of students from the senior secondary schools who have got appreciable aggregates lower than the 24 which is the average we are looking at, but who up till now, two or three weeks before the re-opening of the tertiary institutions that exist now, including the twelve or so viable private tertiary universities, have still not found their way as to whether they are continuing their education or not.
The real thrust of the Statement is not to serve the prestige purposes of the region, but the expansion of tertiary education throughout the country; and we welcome proposals as to the needs of Brong Ahafo, and Eastern Region and so on and so forth; all areas must be properly served.
But what the Statement is seeking to impress upon our minds is that, even
though we believe that Government cannot do everything in terms of expansion of education and therefore we welcome the participation of private institutions or private enterprise, the major thrust of tertiary education, in terms of the preparation of our students according to focused areas of national development, will come from the State itself. And that is the basis of this Statement that has been made.
What we want to see is that, after many years of trying to create universities, expand existing universities, create a merger of campuses and so on, we should now begin to look at the possibility of state-sponsored and initiated tertiary institutions that will really follow and pursue the need for creating the necessary manpower.
The Statement is replete with advantages in terms of cost and opportunities if we look at the statistics given about the educational institutions in the Volta Region as an example of the under-fed areas that we could expand to.
Two thousand, three hundred and thirty-five basic schools, seventy senior secondary schools, seven teacher training institutions, three technical institutes and one polytechnic -- these are the areas where we are already beginning to satisfy or create the need for tertiary education.

Of course, we know that when tertiary institutions are in regions, as they are even now, they are not only serving the interest of students in the region. A university established in the Volta Region will naturally serve the interests of all students wherever they are in this country, even foreign students. And therefore, what the maker of the Statement and the caucus that supports this Statement want us to

understand is that these state-funded or sponsored institutions are well planned for the needs of this country in those areas of need that we know will meet the manpower requirements.

These are areas which are underserved. The Volta Region is among the foremost areas that require that intervention by Government. It is true that even the distance education policy which is being pursued will have centres to meet the needs of the students, the teachers and the workers who are invited to take advantage of this mode of education.It will also create opportunities for research on matters that will help this country to improve its policies on education.

So Mr. Speaker, I lend support to the Statement that has been made and want to invite all hon. Members of this House who have realized that the number of state-sponsored or funded institutions in the tertiary level is not enough to serve the interests of the country -- And if we are to serve the interests of the underserved areas, the Volta Region is one of the areas easily demarcated for that intervention. I support the Statement and invite all of you to support it. I thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Osei Kyei-Mensah Bonsu (NPP

-- Suame): Mr. Speaker, I rise to associate myself with the principle underpinning the Statement made by my hon. Colleague. Mr. Speaker, but I wished that the Statement had the intervention of the State in establishing universities or tertiary institutions in all regions which do not have, instead of specifying it for a particular region.

Mr. Speaker, I want to believe that the hon. Member who made the Statement will not be happy if for instance, the University of Ghana is located just on one campus in the Volta Region. He will

not be happy with it. So I believe that the people of the Upper West, the Upper East and the Brong Ahafo Region which he cited as having campuses of University for Development Studies and therefore being sufficiently covered -- I believe that the people in these regions equally would want universities to be sited there.

So as he said, I understand the principle; we should strive for equity and balanced development in all regions which do not have tertiary institutions; and I think that we should not limit it to just one region. Mr. Speaker, in a similar fashion, I think we should be careful in just saying that this region does not have and that every region should have a state- funded university because of the experience of some countries in the subregion.

Mr. Speaker, Nigeria went in a similar way. There was considerable advocacy in the establishment of universities in all the States. They established thirty State universities in addition to the well- established universities that they had in the system. So States which even had universities, like the University of Lagos in Lagos State, because it was a blanket request, the people did request that they should also benefit from the enterprise. So they had Lagos State University being established.

Oyo State had University of Ile Ife;

they demanded and they had Oyo State University. Delta State -- they demanded and they had Delta State University at Ekwama. Mr. Speaker, it turned out that all these universities which were established became glorified secondary schools and indeed they were not serving the purpose for which they were established.

As we speak today, of the thirty state- funded universities that were established in Nigeria, only five (5) are functional; the rest have collapsed and I do not think that we should go the same way. So yes,
Mr. Haruna Iddrisu noon
Mr. Speaker,
with all due respect, I am rising on a point of order. I think that the Statement is not just specific to a request for expansion of tertiary education, but a specific location in the Volta Region. The hon. Majority Chief Whip is theorizing about failures of higher institutions in Nigeria and I do not see its relevance to the Statement before the House. I thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu noon
Mr. Speaker, I believe that if my hon. Colleague had had the patience to listen and listen well, he would have seen the relevance. Mr. Speaker, the point I am making is that, if we have to establish state-funded universities for the various regions, then the Upper East Region qualifies, the Upper West Region qualifies and the Brong Ahafo Region qualifies. And I am saying that we should look at institutions that will serve the peculiar needs of the region. They should not be institutions which will try to replicate what exist in the system. If they do that then they are going to collapse. That is the point I am making.
So I started by saying that I associate myself with the principle being advocated by my hon. Colleague in the Statement that he made, but I am calling for caution and circumspection and further work on the project before we commit resources so that they may not go down the drain. That exactly is what I am saying.
Happily for us, as we speak today, the various universities that they have in the system are not known to favour citizens from a particular region; and that is why we should commend the various universities that exist.
Mr. Speaker, if there are resources and we can expand the facilities to cover every region, all the better for us as a country. But nobody should conjecture that if a university is set up in a particular region, it is going to serve the interests of that particular region alone.
Mr. Speaker, with that, I thank you for the opportunity.
rose
Mr. Speaker noon
Deputy Minority Leader,
you want to contribute?
Mr. Adjaho noon
Mr. Speaker, I want to
defer to the hon. Member for Central Tongu.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu (NDC -- Central Tongu) 12:10 p.m.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity to get associated with the Statement on the floor. Mr. Speaker, it has been very elaboratively put to the House the need for a state-funded university for the Volta Region.
Mr. Speaker, the call for a State-funded university for the Volta Region emanates from the need to expand university education to take on board the expansion at the local levels of our educational institutions. As at now, we have over 500 senior secondary schools and also other tertiary institutions which admit students from that focal senior secondary schools.
Mr. Speaker, the Volta Region has one of the most highly branded schools in terms of academic output. The issue of proliferation of universities which would not survive, I think, is not the case that we in Ghana should be taking, like what the hon. Member who spoke last said about Nigeria. I am saying this in the sense that as of now our country ranks very high in the human resource base, especially the intelligentsia, when it comes to academic
Mr. J. K. Gidisu (NDC -- Central Tongu) 12:20 p.m.
work. And it is strongly believed that setting up state universities for the Volta Region and those other regions that he identified alongside is of paramount interest in propelling our human resource development into the 21st century.
Mr. Speaker, I am saying this because it is not very grandiose structures like what we have at the premier university that we need to start such state-funded universities. As noted, we could start from a humble beginning like what was the case with the University of Development Studies (UDS) and the University of Tarkwa. In the Volta Region, we have very unique institutions like the training colleges - Amedzofe Training College, St. Francis Training College and Mawuli Secondary School which could be the nucleus for such a state-funded university.
Mr. Speaker, there are other institutions located in other parts of the region and I believe that the initiative, the ingenuity in setting up UDS should be a reference point for us when considering universities in relation to our local resources or our limited resources. This is a challenge to the Ministry of Education, Science and Sports; and I want to say that it is very important for us not to look at this Statement in terms of focusing attention on only the Volta Region but to look across board as an attempt to widen the tertiary base of our universities in absorbing the growing number of qualified students.
It is quite frustrating to see parents and, for that matter, candidates who duly qualify for university and other tertiary institution admission to get stranded, and our attempt to get the Ministry of Education, Science and Sports to widen the scope is one hidden factor behind this demand.
I hope the Minister for Education, Science and Sports, as he is smiling, would look at this Statement with all the seriousness that it deserves and focus
on the Volta Region alongside other regions that do not currently have a state-funded university - because this is a State responsibility and we hope it will go a long way to support the educational reforms and the need to revolutionalize our educational process.
With these comments, Mr. Speaker, I support the Statement with all the urgency and attention that it needs.
Minister for Education, Science and
Sports (Papa Owusu-Ankomah): Mr. Speaker, I wish to assure the House that Government is committed to an even development of the entire nation and in all aspects of its development agenda it is pursuing this particular goal. That is why even when it came to putting up two new stadia, Government selected the Northern Region with its capital in Tamale, and then Sekondi, the capital of the Western Region. And when it comes to education, Mr. Speaker, Government is endeavouring to provide infrastructure at all levels of the educational ladder - basic, secondary and even tertiary.
Mr. Speaker, it is also in pursuit of this national evenly spread developmental agenda that His Excellency the President stated that at least, in each district there must be a model senior secondary school to cater for the needs of the children in that district. Mr. Speaker, as Minister for Education, Science and Sports, I will be the first to admit that there is the need to expand tertiary education in this country as far as access is concerned. Where a country is unable to place qualified students at the tertiary level, it amounts to a waste of its human capital and resource and this Government is very much committed to stopping that particular phenomenon in this country.
Mr. Speaker, it is a matter of priority for the Ministry of Education, Science and Sports, having regard to the limited
financial resources of the country, how best can we expand access. And so I have tasked all the universities to vigorously pursue distance education. Mr. Speaker, we should all admit that if an individual who has the ability to pursue university education is located in the remotest part of this country, it should be possible for him to have that access without necessarily travelling long distance to come to a particular campus. And so we are putting up a long-term plan that will let us create access at minimum cost so that many more students can have access to tertiary education.
Mr. Speaker, we should also bear in mind that when we are talking about education the object is to make its products relevant to the developmental needs of the country. Mr. Speaker, in a country such as Ghana which wants to compete with the best in the world, the emphasis should be on science and technology.
So where we have a situation where 60 per cent of students in universities are pursuing Arts/Humanities courses, it means that the direction is rather not in pursuit of our development goals. But revising it is a process; it takes time. We even have to reorientate the teachers who teach the children at the basic level. We need to expand science facilities at the secondary schools and even in the universities so that where students of science have qualified for universities it should be possible for them to have laboratories to work in.

Mr. Speaker, tomorrow afternoon I am meeting a representative group from the Volta Region on this same matter. I would not want to comment specifically on this same matter, but I wish to assure the entire country, including the Volta Region, that Government is looking seriously at the

best way of expanding tertiary education. We have limited lecturers so probably putting up a new university may not be the best use of our limited resources. Our lecturers are leaving the universities; they are leaving the polytechnics because they believe that when they move into industry or commerce, they would get better remuneration.

That is a challenge that we all need to consider and proffer solutions so that in the long-term we do not see university education just like putting up a structure, a dormitory, a classroom or a lecture hall and let people enter. We must also bear in mind that quality is the best. So I wish to assure the people of the Volta Region that their concerns have been taken note of and we should all as a House and as a country consider how best we can provide tertiary education to each and everyone who desires to have tertiary education.

As a Government, we believe in life- long learning; it should be possible for someone who is fifty years and who is working to have tertiary education if he or she so desires. So I wish to assure the House that the concerns expressed together with the contributions made will be seriously considered and then within the policy framework we would try to address the problems.
PAPERS 12:20 p.m.

Papa Owusu 12:20 p.m.
None

(a) Financing Agreement between the Republic of Ghana and International Development Association for an amount equivalent to twenty-s ix million, nine hundred thousand Special Drawing Rights (SDR 26,900,000) for financing the
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee - (b).
Mr. Adjaho 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think they have gone into committee meeting to finalise the report.
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
So we stand it down. Item 5 (c).
Mr. Yaw Asiedu-Mensah 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Chairman is currently chairing a meeting of the Committee and I have his permission to lay the report.
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Which one are you referring?
Mr. Asiedu-Mensah 12:20 p.m.
Item 5 (b).
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Is the report ready?
Mr. Asiedu-Mensah 12:20 p.m.
I have been asked by the Chairman to lay it on his behalf.
Mr. Adjaho 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, you will find out that the Chairman of the Committee and indeed members of the Committee are in a committee now -
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
We are standing it down. Item 5 (c).
Mr. P. C. Appiah-Ofori 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, both items 5 (c) (1) and ( c) (2) are not ready.
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
All right, we stand it down.
Hon. Members, we move now to item 6 - Motions.
MOTIONS 12:20 p.m.

Chairman of the Committee 12:20 p.m.
(Mr. Samuel Sallas-Mensah): Mr. Speaker, may I present the Report of your Committee.
Introduction
1. The Reports of the Auditor-General on the Public Accounts of Ghana (Consolidated Fund) for the years ended 31st December 2003 and 2004 were laid before Parliament on 7th July 2005 and 17th February 2006 respectively, pursuant to article 187 (5) of the Constitution of the Republic of Ghana, 1992.
2. Article 187(2) mandates the Auditor- General to audit and report on the public accounts of Ghana and of all public offices. The Auditor-General is further mandated to draw the attention of Parliament to any irregularities in the accounts audited and to any matter which in his opinion ought to be brought to the notice of Parliament (article 187(5)).
3. The two Reports of the Auditor- General were accordingly referred to the Public Accounts Committee by Mr. Speaker for consideration and report in accordance with Order 165(2) of the Standing Orders of the House.
Reference
4. The deliberations of the Committee were guided by the following legal instruments:
i. The Constitution of the Republic of Ghana, 1992.
ii. The Standing Orders of the Parliament of Ghana.
iii. The Financial Administration Act, 2003 (Act 654).
iv. The Audit Service Act, 2000 (Act 584).
v. The Loans Act, 1970 (Act 335).
vi. The Financial Administration Regulation, 2004 (L.I. 1802).
Sittings of the Committee
5. The Committee held three sittings to deliberate on the two Reports of the Auditor-General. In line with its practice and procedure, the Committee took evidence (oral and written) from officials of Ministries, Departments and Other Agencies (MDAs) that were the subject of comment by the Auditor-General. The MDAs were as follows:
i. Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning (MOFEP)
ii. Controller and Accountant- General's Department (CAGD)
iii. Bank of Ghana (BoG)
6. The Committee also solicited and received the opinion of the Institute of Chartered Accountants (ICA), Ghana, on the final accounts of Government as reported by the Auditor-General.
Acknowledgement
7. Your Commit tee wishes to acknowledge the contribution of all officials who responded to the Committee's invitation. The Committee is particularly grateful to the Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning, hon. G. Y. Gyan- Baffour (Prof.) for his valuable inputs, the ICA for their professional opinion on the final accounts, the Deputy Controller and Accountant-General and all officials who attended upon the Committee.
Scope of Report
8. The two Reports of the Auditor- General were discussed simultaneously as the issues seem common to the two Reports. The Committee is accordingly issuing one report to the House on the two Reports of the Auditor-General.
9. The structure of the Committee's Report is in three parts. The first part is an executive summary whereas the second part incorporates the detailed findings of the Auditor-General and observations by the Committee. The balance sheet position for 2003 and 2004 and our conclusions are captured in the third part.
PART I 12:20 p.m.

PART II 12:20 p.m.

TABLE I -- COMPARATIVE 12:20 p.m.

TABLE II -- COMPARATIVE REVENUE PERFORMANCE IN 12:20 p.m.

TABLE III -- COMPARATIVE 12:20 p.m.

ANALYSIS OF EXPENDITURE 12:20 p.m.

PART III 12:20 p.m.

Mr. K. K. Mensah (NPP -- Amansie West) 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to second the
Mr. K. K. Mensah (NPP -- Amansie West) 12:30 p.m.


motion on the floor. However, I would make a few comments.

As regards accrual basis of accounting, there was a little bit of controversy in the committee meetings. The Committee itself admits that it may be impossible to institute that one. It is however, refreshing to note that only one country in the whole world, New Zealand, which is presently doing accrual accounting. It is therefore not surprising that Ghana is unable to comply with this law. However, since this is the law, we may have to amend the law. Even the great United States of America is unable to do accrual accounting fully.

On borrowings, I find it difficult to fathom why Government is unable to come to Parliament from time to time to get powers to borrow, because I have the feeling that a budget is not a stock. A budget is a flow, that is to say moneys come in trickles, so as and when Government is unable to borrow money, it is forced, as it were, to borrow again; and these borrowings are the things we are talking about. It is impossible to come to Parliament every time they need these moneys, especially when the outturns of budget are different from the returns coming from the treasuries all over the place.

So it is my view that although the law appears to be frowned on or contravened from time to time, it is also impossible to keep track of it all the days of the year. So we will have to grapple with this as a Parliament and see how best to solve this problem, whether on one hand the Ministry has to infringe the law or whether they have to abide by the law which they cannot do as often as they would have wished.

Mr. Speaker, subject to these two comments, I second the motion.

Question proposed.
Mr. Haruna Iddrisu (NDC - Tamale South) 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to associate myself with the motion on the floor which is about this House adopting the Auditor-General's Report of the Public Accounts of Ghana (Consolidated Fund) for years ended 2003 and 2004.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to refer you to page 19 of the Committee's Report and -- Before I make my comments I would, like the Chairman of the Committee, commend the Office of the Auditor-General, the Controller and Accountant-General for the expeditious manner in which they have dealt with this particular matter.

Mr. Speaker, if you look at paragraph 85 of the Committee's Report, it raises a very important issue that I think the House must take a position on. I listened to a brilliant exposition on this matter by the respected Dr. S. K. B. Asante as to what kind of loan agreement qualifies to be sent to Parliament for approval. I think that we have to end the contention because the Constitution, under article 181(3), is very specific that all loan agreements that are being contracted in the name of the Republic must be brought to this Parliament for approval.

We do know, Mr. Speaker, that there are certain public institutions which contract loans without recourse to the parliamentary approval process and I think that is wrong; that is illegal; that is unconstitutional and we should not encourage it.

Mr. Speaker, as elected representatives of the people, the sovereignty of this country is exercised on behalf of the people by this House as the National Assembly. I would not understand why public institutions, in going in for loan
Mr. Lee Ocran 12:40 p.m.
On a point of order.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to explain to my hon. Friend that debts owed by GIHOC that have been liquidated are loans that were given to those companies -- I worked with GIHOC. He is talking about a different thing. Companies that have been divested to individuals are different from the GIHOC that has since ceased to operate. This is where the difference is.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am
working with the recommendations of the Committee's Report which is in black and white. What I do know - I do not want to be cited for contempt for matters which are sub judice -- I am saying that others are in court for owing arrears. This report says people are owing the Government of Ghana yet in one respect one is saying that write off their debts, in another wing we are trying other people for the same associated debt. I am saying that this is incongruous and I think that it is a betrayal of the principle of the rule of law and for the Committee to make such a recommendation.
Mr. Speaker, listening to the Chairman
of the Committee, he has made reference
Mr. Simon Osei-Mensah 12:40 p.m.
On a
point of order. Mr. Speaker, the two things are not the same. Mr. Speaker, what is being tried in court is acquisition through divestiture and the person has defaulted in payment for that asset that the person bought. The second one is loans contracted by state organizations that are defunct. So these are loans of the Government, so we need to look at it and maybe if they are not recoverable, we write them off.
Mr. Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Hon. Members, let us
avoid bringing in matters before the court.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
accordingly would be guided by your wise counselling. All I am saying is that the Committee should have recommended that these matters be investigated and if any person is palpable, the person must be put before court rather than recommending a write-off. That is all my suggestion. Investigate it.
Mr. Speaker, finally, our attention
has been drawn, if you read the balance sheet, to the tax balance of our country of a huge domestic and foreign debt not less than ¢77 trillion. Mr. Speaker, it is good counsel for political parties and those who are aspiring like my good hon. Friend, Nkrabeah to be President of our Republic that when they are drafting their manifestos, they should acquaint themselves with the financial health of our country before they proceed to make promises that they otherwise would not be able to fulfil. Mr. Speaker, I am saying this against the background that in 2001-- I am not too good at speaking Twi -- I heard people making political propaganda that api pi pim pim pim, as if it was a crime to be indebted.
Mr. Speaker, evidence abound today
that we have been swelling domestic debts, swelling foreign debts and justifiably so because many of it may be contracted to undertake development projects. I agree with it. But where people create an impression that the indebtedness of the country is as a result of poor or bad governance of a regime, that they are unable to justify, it creates worries.
So I hope that all the political parties in Ghana would take a cue, that they must know the state and the financial health of our country to be a guide in what they promise in their manifestos in entering a social contract with the people of Ghana.
Mr. Speaker, I thank you for your
indulgence.
Ofori (NPP
Mr. Sallas-Mensah 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, if
the hon. Member has read the Committee's Report, he must have noticed that we are saying that the list of all those outstanding debts should be submitted to Parliament for scrutiny to see which ones would be recommended to the same House for write-offs. We are not saying that those debts should be written off, at all. If you read the Report well, you would notice that they have to come back to this House to determine which ones are going to be bad debts. So he can go ahead and comment now.
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, as
far as I am concerned, I support the idea
that when debts are irrecoverable, when debts are piled they should not continue to stay in the books. Mr. Speaker, if such debts remain in the books, they create false impressions that the nation has these assets which cannot be realized. So properly, they ought to be written off. But I want to draw attention to one particular aspect of such loans of which I think the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning has failed in its duty to the nation right from 1999 to the present time.
Mr. Speaker, when the PNDC went about privatizing certain state enterprises, such state enterprises had been given loans and one would have expected that when they were divesting, when people were buying those assets, they should have been also called upon to pay the outstanding debts due to the State.
Mr. Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Hon. Member, which page are your referring to?
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:50 p.m.
It is in the Auditor-
General's Report.
Mr. Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Which one? Which
page? Which paragraph?
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:50 p.m.
The report is not
here but the amount involved is ¢58 billion in the Auditor-General's Report itself but not in the Public Accounts Committee's Report. In fact, this list has been recurring; every year the Auditor-General produces it and the list contains debts from 1989 to 1995 -- which certain public enterprises incurred before they were divested. But before the divestiture or at the time the assets were being divested, I expected that such loans or the monies due to the State could have been recovered, but they are still in the books, from 1989 to date. Mr.
Speaker, such loans or advances cannot be recovered; they are bad debts and therefore should be written off.
But I want to draw attention to some debts of those organizations which are still ongoing and which therefore should not be written off. One of them is the Ghana National Manganese Corporation. Mr. Speaker, as at the time it was divested it was treated as a joint venture between the Ghana Government and the investors. Mr. Speaker, as a joint venture, it means the company is still ongoing and it has owed the State the sum of ¢3,789,489,600.
Nobody has taken pains to recover this even though the organization exports manganese and takes the money out of this country -- nobody has taken pains to recover this. Mr. Speaker, at the time this debt was contracted the exchange rate was about ¢350 to the dollar. Today, it is ¢9,200 and therefore this figure is equivalent to about ¢50 billion; it is lost. So why did the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning sit down unconcerned from as far back as 1989 for this debt to stand and not collected?
Abosso Glass Factory is here as having
been leased. If it has been leased, it means it is ongoing; but it owes the State the sum of ¢1.265 billion dating from 1989.
Mr. Speaker, Ghana Bottling Company was divested in 1995. At that time it owed the State about ¢161 million; and it is ongoing. We have been drinking Coca Cola here and nobody has taken pains to recover this money. So we have to look into this and all those companies which are ongoing. We should go to them and ask them to pay; and we should try and calculate interest on the outstanding figures, from the time they became outstanding up to the present time.
Alternatively, we should convert the
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:50 p.m.


amount into dollars and convert it back into cedis for us to know their purchasing power today, and ask them to pay; other than that there is no hope for this country.

The next thing I want to talk about is
rose
Mr. Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Minister for the Interior,
do you have a point of order to raise?
Mr. Kan-Dapaah 12:50 p.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I think we need to be careful with some of these statements. And I think there is a certain amount of untruth in the point being made. Mr. Speaker, when a company is being sold it is the net worth that is being sold. You take the assets and all the liabilities and then a figure is established as the value of the company.
Obviously, in determining these values, all these liabilities would have been taken into account. So you cannot tell the buyer to buy it for the net worth of it and then go back to him and say he should come and pay for loans that were existing. I think the impression should not be given that we can still go back to them and ask them to recover something which had already been taken into account in determining the net worth of the company.
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it
appears to me that my very good Friend did not listen to me. I said companies sold - divested. I am not talking about the recovery of the loans from them but those which the Government said that they were joint ventures; the Government did not sell them but they have been leased to somebody. Mr. Speaker, if you have not sold it, if it is a joint venture between you and me then the company's identity is still there and I do not see why we cannot
recover this.
If it has been sold to a different person, fine; I will recommend that it should be written off. But where the company, instead of being sold, the Government says the Minister and hon. Appiah-Ofori should run it -- With due respect to him, the Abosso Glass Factory, it says it has been leased to somebody to run. With due respect to the hon. Minister, we cannot sit down for the company to take away the money, especially since it has not been divested. So that is the end of that.
The other issue I want to raise is the
Government contracting loans without coming to Parliament to seek approval. It has been chronic since 1993. Since this Constitution came into being, the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning has contracted a lot of loans locally but on no occasion were the terms and conditions relating to such loans sent to Parliament for approval.
Mr. Speaker, Part I of the Loans Act
deals with loans contracted locally; Part II deals with loans contracted externally. And section 7 of the Loans Act states that any loans contracted under Part I or Part II, the terms and conditions should be submitted to Parliament for approval before whoever is contracting the loan should accept the loan. And section 2 of the Loans Act says: “The Government can contract loans locally by issuing securities”. And securities are defined as including Treasury Bills. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, if the Government issues Treasury Bills it has contracted loans.
In accordance with section 7 of the Loans Act and article 181 (3) and 4 (a), the Government should come to Parliament with the terms and conditions. But from 1993 to this present time, this has not been complied with. It is unfortunate and we should not encourage it because
we weaken control measures. And when controls or internal controls are weakened, we pave way for people to perpetrate fraud; we pave way for people to misapply or misuse resources.
So if the Public Accounts Committee today is saying that this is an infringement on the Constitution and the Loans Act, Parliament should take it seriously and ensure that subsequent loans contracted locally by Government, the terms and conditions are brought here.
But let me add this. The argument advanced by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning is that it is not easy, it is not practicable, for Treasury Bills to be placed before the House every week or every month. Mr. Speaker, section 11 of the Loans Act answers this. It says categorically that the Government or the Ministry should project what it requires in a given period of time and lay the terms and conditions before Parliament. So when Parliament approves it, it need not come here again until the terms and conditions change. That is what the law says.

So the Government can come and say that this year they want to contract “X” trillion cedis and these are the terms and conditions. When we approve that, that is the end of it.

Mr. Speaker, let me give you some figures to support this. In 2001, the Government borrowed as much as ¢18.6 trillion through the issue of Treasury Bills without recourse to Parliament. In 2002, the Government went in for ¢20.8 trillion; once again, the terms and conditions did not come to Parliament

In 2003, the Government went for

¢25 trillion; and in 2004, as much as ¢24 trillion. And just last year the Government went in for ¢22 trillion, totalling ¢110 trillion contracted by the Government without recourse to Parliament. It should not be encouraged because it weakens control measures. And when this happens, it paves the way for people to defraud the State.

Mr. James Klutse Avedzi (NDC

- Ketu North): Mr. Speaker, thank you for the opportunity. I wish to support the motion and ask this honourable House to adopt the Report. But in doing so, I would like to talk on the balance sheet of the accounts.

There are some figures reported in the balance sheet which the Committee tried to verify but they could not be confirmed. If you look at the domestic debt which was reported in the accounts, which shows about ¢12.3 trillion, when the Bank of Ghana was asked to confirm this figure, the figure reported by the Bank of Ghana was ¢13.5 trillion. Now, the question then is, where did the ¢12.3 trillion which was reported in the financial statement come from, if Bank of Ghana is showing a different figure from what the Controller and Accountant-General is reporting?

If you also look at the foreign loan, which figure Bank of Ghana cannot even confirm, the question again is, how did the Controller and Accountant-General arrive at the figure which was quoted in the financial statement?
Mr. Simon Osei-Mensah 1 p.m.
On a point
Mr. Simon Osei-Mensah 1 p.m.


of order. Mr. Speaker, I think the Bank of Ghana gave an explanation that before it could confirm those figures, it would need the exchange rate that was used. This is because the differences, according to the Bank of Ghana, could have arisen because of different exchange rates that were applied. So it could be that there were differences but they explained it that way; that if they could provide them with the exchange rate that was used in establishing that amount, then they can come out to establish the difference.
Mr. Avedzi 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think that explanation was given by the Bank of Ghana. But again, figures that are used by the Controller and Accountant-General are figures provided by the Bank of Ghana. The Bank of Ghana gave the exchange rate that the Controller and Auditor-General used in preparing the accounts. So why should the Bank of Ghana say that they do not know the rate that the Controller and Accountant-General used in converting the figure from dollar to cedi?
So that explanation cannot be taken because the Bank of Ghana gave the rate to the Controller and Accountant-General, so the Bank of Ghana cannot say that it does not know the rate used in converting. Mr. Speaker, that explanation was given but I think it is not convincing.
Now, what I was also talking about is the project grant of ¢1.4 trillion which was not disclosed at all in the financial statement. So if you take the balance sheet for Ghana, since some of those figures in it cannot be confirmed by Bank of Ghana, one would be tempted to doubt the credibility of that financial statement.
This is because this financial statement is going to the international bodies. When they take the accounts and look at it and Ghana has an overdrawn figure of ¢6
trillion and yet this cannot be confirmed by Bank of Ghana, it means that the money that we had at the bank or the overdrawn figure could be more or less than what was shown in the financial statement.
So even though the Controller and Accountant-General did his best by coming out with the financial statement -- and having worked in that department before, I know how difficult it is to get information -- I think we have to put more seriousness to this particular account, the public accounts, which gives the picture to the whole world about the position of Ghana. We have to put more seriousness to that aspect of the work so that whatever statements that we are coming out with should be statements that can be reliable and credible.
So apart from these few areas where I have problems, I think they have done well and I would ask the honourable House to adopt the Report.
Mr. Simon Osei-Mensah (NPP - Bosomtwe) 1:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the motion on the floor. In so doing, I will comment on three issues -- the overdrawn cash balance, the loan and then the revenue situations.
Mr. Speaker, there is an accumulated overdrawn balance which cannot be explained. This has accumulated over several years and I think it is due to irregular reconciliation of the various accounts. Mr. Speaker, it is worrying when one hears that we had a surplus in a particular year and we are declaring over ¢6 trillion overdrawn balance on our cash accounts.
Mr. Speaker, I think it is time we had a look at the various accounts with the Controller and Accountant-General and if they are too many, possibly we could merge some of them to facilitate reconciliation of such accounts. So that anytime we are given any figure, those
figures could be supported with some explanatory notes.
Mr. Speaker, I wish also to say that subsequently when they submit the report to the House, they should attach the list of all the accounts and the corresponding balances so that we can know from that whether the overdrawn cash balance is the true situation or maybe just a balancing item to make things easier for the Controller and Accountant-General in preparation of the accounts.
Mr. Speaker, on the loans that were
contracted by the Government without approval, I feel we would need to have a second look at the law. Mr. Speaker, first of all, are we saying that public sector borrowing requirements do not form part of the Budget that we approve in this House? If they do, then if the Government goes to borrow from the public, do we take it as illegal? Mr. Speaker, again, in the management of the national economy, it will be very difficult and quite cumbersome if we expect the Government to come here anytime there is the need, for instance, to mop up excess liquidity from the public.

We know that one of the respon- sibilities of the Government is to determine interest rates and to help establish interest rates. In so doing, for instance, if the Government realizes that there is excess liquidity and as a result, maybe, inflation is rising and would like to mop up this excess liquidity, are we saying that in issuing the securities and treasury bills, the Government would have to come here?

Mr. Speaker, I think we have to look at the law and those aspects that relate strictly to management of the national economy. So far as the monetary policies and some of the fiscal policies are concerned, maybe,

we have to look at how we can change the law to make it a bit flexible for the Government to operate.

Mr. Speaker, the next point I want

to look at is the revenue. I think the Government deserves commendation for the efforts that it is making to increase the revenue generation capacity of the country. If you look at the year 2003, the budgeted revenue was about ¢17.5 trillion and the actual came to ¢15.6 trillion. However, in the year 2004 the Government was able to exceed its budgeted revenue by 11.3 per cent.

If you relate this to the year 2000 when total revenue was about ¢4 trillion, then this has been a significant improvement in the revenue generation system of this country. And this is due to the plugging of most of the loopholes in the system, like the introduction of the GCNet at our airports and borders; all these tried to check some of the leakages that existed in the system.

Mr. Speaker, finally, I would like to commend the Auditor-General for the good work that he is doing. At least, now we will have some relevance for the Reports that are submitted to us. I remember that last year we were discussing the Report for 1996/97 and I asked myself how relevant those Reports were to the economy or to the country; because most of the things were stale. But now that we are getting current, at least we can use whatever anomalies that we detect in these Reports to take corrective measures to ensure that we improve upon the system in the subsequent years.

With these few words, Mr. Speaker, I support the motion.
Mr. Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Chairman of the
Committee, you may wish to wind up.
Mr. Sallas-Mensah 1:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, in
Mr. Sallas-Mensah 1:10 p.m.


the first place, I would like to thank all hon. Members who made contributions to this Report, especially my Committee members who are very, very cooperative in this type of work. Imagine being in the Minority and chairing the Committee and the sort of cooperation that I get from everybody; if we go on like this, I think the country would go very far.

Mr. Speaker, this Committee's Report, as was said yesterday, should be taken very seriously by this House. The way we give the National Budget a fanfare when it is being read, I think the Public Accounts Committee Reports too should be given the same fanfare when they are being presented, because at this time we are looking at the performance of Government -- how the money in the public purse has been spent.

Looking at the seriousness of this Report, it looks like we Members of Parliament do not even know what this whole Report is about. As I said, the Hansard of today should be acquired by all political parties in this country so that they can appropriately plan for the future.
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 1:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, my hon. Friend was indicting Members of the House. Mr. Speaker, if you go round there are about four committee meetings going on - major committees.
Mr. Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Chairman, have you finished?
Mr. Sallas-Mensah 1:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I have finished.
Question put and motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
PAPERS 1:10 p.m.

MOTIONS 1:10 p.m.

Minister for Education, Science and Sports (Papa Owusu-Ankomah) 1:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 128 (1) which require that when a Bill has been read a Second time it shall pass through a Consideration Stage which shall not be taken until at least forty-eight hours have elapsed, the Consideration Stage of the Council for Technical and Vocational Education and Training Bill may be taken today.
Question put and motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
BILLS - CONSIDERATION STAGE 1:10 p.m.

Mr. Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Hon. Members, the amendment is for the consideration of the House; and that is, subclause (2), paragraph (d), line 1, second occurrence, delete “ensure”.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, before then, I think the Committee is proposing an amendment to precede the one advertised in (i).
Mr. Speaker 1:20 p.m.
That is not advertised
on the Order Paper.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:20 p.m.
It has not
been advertised. Mr. Speaker, I think the Committee thought that they could leave it to the draftspersons, and that is why it was not advertised. But the amendment he just moved is to make the provisions consistent with the Short Title and the Long Title.
Question put and amendment agreed
to.
Mr. Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Clause 2 -- Chairman
of the Committee, you may move your amendment.
Mr. Okoh 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 2, subclause (2), paragraph (d), line 1, second occurrence, delete “ensure”.
Mr. Speaker, that is to do away with the
repetition of the word “ensure”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, for 2 (d), I was just having a discussion with the Chairman and the hon. Minister. I believe that the word “quality” should rather read “equality” and not “quality”.
Mr. Speaker, I guess that will make it consistent with articles 25 (1) and 25 (1) (c) of the Constitution, which talk about “equality” and “equity” in the provision of educational facilities.
Mr. Speaker, if I may, since I hear the hon. Minister shouting ‘no', by my side, article 25 (1) of the Constitution talks about it and Mr. Speaker, with your indulgence I may read -
“All persons shall have the right to equal educational opportunities and facilities with a view to achieving the full realisation of that right.”
Mr. Speaker, 25 (1) (c) says -
“higher education shall be made equally accessible to all, on the basis of capacity, by every appropriate means, and in particular, by progressive introduction of free education.”
Mr. Speaker, it seems to me that the particular provision derives its strength from article 25(1) and 25 (1) (c) of the Constitution for which reason, I believe
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:20 p.m.


the word really is “equality” and not “quality”.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I guess sometimes it is better for proposers of certain amendments to consult.
Mr. Speaker, the Council for Technical and Vocational Education and Training is to ensure quality; that is it. That is what it is about. So with references to article 25 and so forth, his understanding is not the intent of the proponents of this Bill. That is why I am saying that he should have consulted a little bit.
So there is nothing wrong with the rendition; it really conveys the intention of clause 2 which is, “. . . as part of the object and functions of the Council, to take measures to ensure quality in delivery”, not “equality in delivery”. What does “equality in delivery” mean? And then “ensure equity in access”; so “quality” and “equity”. Equity means equity, fairness, even-handedness; that is the normal grammatical interpretation or meaning of “equity”.
Mr. Speaker, I beg the hon. Majority Chief Whip, who has turned himself into constantly amending language and so forth - [Laughter] -- not to go on in that respect. Once the understanding is clear, let us be happy with it.
Mr. Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Let us go to the next one, Majority Chief Whip.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would not want to really run counter to the arguments being tendered here by the hon. Minister.
Mr. Speaker, he talks about “quality education” and if you look at the formulation of the other provisions, they
relate to achieving quality education.
Mr. Speaker, it is only (d) that relates to educational rights as covered by article 25 and I thought that that was the gravamen of the issue at stake. But if he disagrees with me, it is his Bill and I may defer to what he is saying. But I thought that the point I was making was very germane to the Constitution and if the hon. Minister would advert his mind to the Constitution, he would understand the point I was making.
Mr. Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Majority Chief Whip, in any case, your proposal is not advertised. Is that not it?
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I agree that it is not advertised. But I thought the first amendment that we took was equally not advertised but, with respect, we took that one.
Mr. Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Yes. Clause 2, Chairman of the Committee, there is an amendment; you may wish to move it.
Mr. Okoh 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I intend to go by the submission of the hon. Minister for Education, Science and Sports.
Mr. Speaker, my hon. Friend, the Majority Chief Whip, his concerns are being taken care of by the institution of the word “equity”. To me, I understand that “equity” also means equal; so I think his submission cannot be accepted.
Mr. Speaker 1:20 p.m.
We are moving on to item (ii), clause 2. You have an amendment.
Mr. Okoh 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 2, subsclause (2), paragraph (h), at end, add “in technical and vocational education and training”.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it is an unnecessary repetition; you have
to look at clause 2 (1). The object of the Council is to co-ordinate and oversee all aspects of technical and vocational education and training in the country. And (2), to achieve its object of co-ordinating and overseeing all aspects of technical and vocational training in the country, it shall promote co-operation with international agencies and development partners. That is drafting. But it seems as if increasingly we are trying to substitute English writing for drafting skills in this House.
If the meaning is clear, I do not know why we always want to upgrade. This amendment is really a tautology, because what it will mean is that, to achieve its objects of co-ordinating and overseeing all aspects of technical and vocational education and training in the country, the Council shall promote co-operation with international agencies and development partners in technical and vocational education and training. That is how it will mean. So really, the addition may not be necessary.
Mr. Yieleh Chireh 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
the hon. Minister who is proposing the Bill also does not want Parliament to add relevance; and I think he is wrong. First, we know that it is to promote cooperation, but how do we achieve it? We also want to emphasize what that cooperation should be. It is not just general cooperation with our development partners. It must be related to what we ask the Council to do. And that is why we are adding this. I support the motion and urge everybody to vote for it. It does not detract from what he is saying.
Mr. Kojo Armah 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I do not think I want to agree with hon. Yieleh Chireh. If it is very clear that it is the function of the Council to promote
technical education and vocational training, and therefore it must cooperate with people, it is going to cooperate with them in that area. It is not going to cooperate with them in agriculture or in energy or anything; it is going to cooperate with them in the area which is the function of the Council.
We do not have to overburden the law with so much use of language and things like that. The law should be simple and straightforward and I believe that the Council's functions are very clear and whatever cooperation they are asking for in the law is also in that area. Therefore, I will urge hon. Members to reject the amendment for us to make progress.
Mrs. Angelina Baiden-Amissah 1:30 p.m.
Mr.
Speaker, I wish to advise my Minister that we should accept the amendment being made. This is because with the teaching profession, we have the teaching practice, here and there, taking place just to improve upon their practical skills. And over here too, for technical and vocational education, we have internship where the students are attached to industries to upgrade themselves and improve upon their practical skills. We realized that in the technical/vocational institutions internship is not part and even if it is, it is not dominant in the system.
This is the reason why there is this amendment; and it is not only happening in Ghana. But in other developed countries where TVET is pronounced, internship takes place. I am saying that this amendment must be allowed because a time will come when it will become necessary for TVET institutions to provide a fee for internship and then they will look at the law and say that it is not even part of the law, and that providing money or setting up a development fund to boost it
Mrs. Angelina Baiden-Amissah 1:30 p.m.


up will become a problem.

It is for this reason that I feel that the amendment proposed must be accepted by us and the Ministry.
Mr. Joseph B. Aidoo 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
also rise to support the amendment. The hon. Minister is talking about repetition but, Mr. Speaker, if you look at paragraphs (b), (c), (d), (e), (f) up to (g) it is all the same set of words -- “Technical, Vocational Education and Training”. I think the amendment is to place relevance in that particular paragraph as it has occurred in all the other paragraphs. So to be consistent with what we are doing, I also support the amendment.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Okoh 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 2, subclause (2), add a new paragraph as follows:
“facilitate collaboration between training providers and industry to promote:
(i) demand driven curriculum development and placement;
(ii) national internship pro- grammes.”
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I do not oppose this amendment and it should appear as new paragraph, (l).
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 2 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 3 - Governing Body of the Council.
Mr. Okoh 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 3, subclause (1), paragraph (c) (i), delete “of Education and Sports” and substitute “responsible for Education”.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I believe that this amendment is in order because we are dealing with matters of education. The designation of the Minister responsible for Education may be different later on. The Minister for Education and Sports is now also responsible for Science, but it could be that he may no longer be responsible for science and even sports so the emphasis should be on education.
I believe it is the same for Manpower, Youth and Employment, and Environment and Science because the Ministries may shift but there would be a Minister responsible for that particular subject. So I believe that these things are consequential; there is no need for debate. So we should take it as read.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Okoh 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 3, subclause (1), paragraph (c) (ii) delete, “of Manpower, Youth and Employment” and substitute “responsible for Employment”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Okoh 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 3, subclause (1), paragraph (c) (iii), delete “of Environment and Science” and substitute “responsible for Environment”.
Mr. E. K. D. Adjaho 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, in the case of Education, it is clear that the emphasis is on the Minister responsible for Education. For Education, we know, given the nature of this Bill. But for Environment, I have my doubts. If it is
Science, then it makes sense to me but if it is for the representation of Environment on this Governing Council, I do not see it. If it is the Minister responsible for Environment, I am opposed to it; I am completely and absolutely opposed to the amendment. I do not see why we need the Minister for Environment on Technical and Vocational Education and Training Governing Council.
Mr. S. K. B. Manu 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I rise
to support the amendment. Environment is a very important area when it comes to technical education, because industry that has to do with technical education emits certain by-products that go to degrade the environment. So when we are talking about technical education and industry, then the Minister responsible for Environment must be present.
Mr. J. B. Aidoo 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, at the moment we have environment placed under the Ministry -- Local Government, Rural Development and Environment. So here is a very passive case whereby the Minister responsible for Environment is now the Minister responsible Local Government, Rural Development and Environment. So the amendment is in order.
Mr. Mahama Ayariga 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I believe that this Bill was drafted when we had the Ministry of Environment and Science. Now that Ministry has been decimated, if I may put it that way, and we have Education -- and now we have Local Government. It is difficult to now tell the reason why we should have this clause there; maybe, we should just drop it entirely because I believe that the Ministry of Education, Science and Sports will handle that. Mr. Speaker, I think we
should drop it.
Mr. Kwadwo Adjei-Darko 1:40 p.m.
Mr.
Speaker, I would want to go for “science” instead of “environment”. Mr. Speaker, “the object of the Council is to coordinate and oversee all aspects of technical and vocational education and training in the country. And when we are talking about technical education the area which is of much relevance is science, not environment, and definitely these people are going to look at the training aspect; and in training, you cannot also take away research activities and so on.
Even if you look at clause 2(ii)(f) it reads “facilitate research and development in technical, vocational education and training system.” So Mr. Speaker, this question of bringing “environment” on instead of “science”, I do not think that is the right thing we would be doing. I would rather look at the “Minister responsible for Science”, instead of “environment”.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 1:40 p.m.
Mr.
Speaker, I believe that the Committee proposed this amendment because now the Minister responsible for Education is also the Minister responsible for Science and they thought that getting a representative both for the Minister responsible for Education and the other responsible for Science would be more of a repetition.
But I believe that it should be for “Science”, because under Science we have Ghana Atomic Energy Commission; we have Council for Scientific and Industrial Research and we have a Directorate of Science under the Ministry of Education, Science and Sports; likewise, a Directorate responsible for Sports. So I would request the hon. Chairman to amend his proposed amendment by substituting “responsible for environment/science”, because science is science and technology.
Mr. Okoh 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, we concede
rose
Mr. Speaker 1:40 p.m.
Deputy Minority
Leader, do you find it acceptable?
Mr. Adjaho 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, that is
my position, so he should just move the amendment in that term so that we all agree and make progress.
Mr. Speaker 1:40 p.m.
Chairman of the
Committee, should we amend “responsible for environment” to read “responsible for science?” Is it what you are saying?
Mr. Okoh 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, whole-
heartedly.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:40 p.m.
Mr.
Speaker, I was initially inclined to go with the amendment suggested by my hon. Colleague the Deputy Minority Leader. Mr. Speaker, technical and vocational education and training is technology and not purely science, as it were. So it is the Minister responsible for Technology wherever we find that one and not science.
Mr. Adjaho 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, as at now,
we do not have any Minister responsible for Technology. We know that after the realignment, the Minister responsible for Technology has been subsumed under the Ministry of Science. That is the true position now, please. So that is why the hon. Minister did mention Ghana Atomic Energy Commission and all those things which were strictly speaking, the technology aspect of the Ministry.
So as at now, it is science so we know exactly what we are talking about. If in future, the President decides to take science from this Ministry and it is the same person, then the same person will get represented on the Committee. So it should be “science”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Okoh 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move,
clause 3, subclause (1), paragraph (c)(vi), delete “of” and substitute “responsible for”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Okoh 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move,
clause 3,subclause (1), paragraph (d), delete “two” and substitute “one”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Okoh 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 3, subclause (1), paragraph (e), delete “one” and substitute “two”.
Mr. J. Y. Chireh 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
support the amendment of the number but I have an amendment and I want to take it now. Otherwise, if we finish it, I will lose my amendment. It reads as such: “Two persons nominated by a recognized employers association.”
The argument I am making is that it should not be the Minister who should recognize anybody. We already have recognized institutions in this country and therefore if it is they who should send their representative, they should nominate the person and not an institution recognized by the Minister because, you see, the Minister can decide to recognize a group of people who have been formed yesterday. But we know that we have a recognized Employers' Association so that is my amendment.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, we should credit the hon. Minister with a sense of fairness in dealing with matters in accordance with the Constitution.
We have a Ghana Employers' Association. It could be that in respect of technical and vocational manpower needs, we may have a specialised association of employers. So this gives discretion to the hon. Minister to determine which employers association may be relevant to the training of vocational and technical students.
So this, in a way, is to cater for future eventualities and not for the employers' associations. If you have four employers' associations, who would have to determine which one should send a representative? This is a governing body set up to assist the Council pursue its objects.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
would want to go with the amendment proposed by the hon. Member. We do not make laws using personalities as at that time as the focus because personalities change. Therefore, for laws to withstand the test of time, we would have to remove ourselves from the making of these laws.
Mr. Speaker, I would want us to
have it that, “one person”, or if it is two, “nominated by relevant registered employers' association”. The employers' associations might have been registered with the Registrar-General's Department, so they are recognised. And it is also relevant to what we are doing, the Objects of this Bill, so that if it is “relevant registered employers' association”, I am for that.
Mr. Chireh 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I wanted
to react to what the hon. Minister said by saying that in my amendment I am saying, “a recognised employers' association”. That gives you room to look for the relevant association to nominate or for us to write to them to nominate the represen- tative. So it does not close in as to whether it is only one employers' association, no.
“A recognised employers' association” with the relevance, as the hon. Member is saying, in whatever sector he wants. In terms of recognition, recognition presumes that the person is registered and is known to the law or officials of state and that was why I just said, “recognised”. So I would not mind if the hon. Member wants to further amend mine by adding “registered”.
Mr. Okoh 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I do not
see anything wrong with the amendment that we are proposing. Now, we have so many associations coming up; we have the National Association of Graduate Teachers (NAGRAT), we have the Ghana National Association of Teachers (GNAT) and others, but one should be recognised by the hon. Minister, and when we talk about recognition, who is going to recognise that association? If we leave it there as just “a recognised association”, who is going to recognise that association as being the relevant association? That one should be left to the hon. Minister to do. I do not see anything wrong with it.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:50 p.m.
Mr.
Speaker, we recently passed a Bill in this House; I think it was in respect of the Ghana Institute of Journalism (GIJ). And we were confronted with a similar problem and we felt at the time that we ought to remove the hand of the hon. Minister. And so, in consonance with that and to be consistent I believe that we should just leave it at “employers' association”, instead of saying “being recognised by the Minister”. So for consistency sake, I believe we should leave it at that.
Mr. Ayariga 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I recall the
heated debate regarding the hand of the Minister in determining which employers' association should be represented on the governing council when we were debating the GIJ Bill.
Mr. Ayariga 1:50 p.m.


I think that we do not make the law all the time with the good man in contem- plation. We are always thinking about the bad man and how the bad man would take advantage of whatever opportunities have been created in the legislation. So we appreciate that the current hon. Minister responsible for education is a very nice person; he will not go playing games with this piece of legislation. But we are imagining a situation where hon. Yieleh Chireh, for instance, becomes the hon. Minister for Education in the not too distant future and the sort of things he can do with a legislation like this.

I think that if we remove the hand of the hon. Minister, it would not make any serious difference because the hon. Minister already has the opportunity to nominate several people to be on the Council. So I do not think that we should truncate the opportunity for the real employers' association to be represented on the Council by putting it in the hands of the hon. Minister.
Mrs. Baiden-Amissah 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think ‘recognised by the Minister' must stay. This is because it is the hon. Minister who is going to write to these associations, all those persons named here. It is the hon. Minister who is going to write to their associations for the nomination and the hon. Minister must certify that these belong to the relevant associations that have to do with technical training of the students, those going to embark on the programmes.
So taking out the hon. Minister, I think we shall go astray if we leave out the hon. Minister, because the employers' association can decide to provide anybody who may not have a hand in the training or the skills training that we are talking about. So let us leave it as it is, “by the
Minister”. This is what I think.
Mr. Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Hon. Members, we shall have extended Sitting.
Mr. Ayariga 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I rose on a point of order just before she sat down; you did not recognise me then.
Mr. Speaker, I am not sure whether it is the hon. Minister who is going to be writing to the employers' association. If we look at the legislation, there is a proposal for an Executive Secretary and I believe that he would be exercising most of these administrative functions in relation to the Council.
So if it is recognition, I believe it is the Executive Secretary who might be the one to be doing the recognition, but I think that as indicated, we are torn between designing a legislation that would ensure that a relevant employers' association is the one that is represented on the governing council and the fear that a not- too-good Minister might manipulate the system if we do not take care in crafting the legislation. So for us, I think that the best arrangement is to further amend it as the hon. Member is proposing to include “the relevant employers' association”. Even that could be the subject of serious disputes.
Mr. Chireh 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to address a concern; and the concern is that the hon. Member for Shama (Mrs. Angelina Baiden-Amissah) is saying that it is the hon. Minister who would know or write. We are not talking about that. I am saying that a recognised institution in this country is known and therefore the hon. Minister, before he can invite the association to send the name, that association itself must be recognised. And as my hon. Colleagues have been adding, relevant.
But when you say that as it is currently
in the Bill and some hon. Members are saying that it should stay, it means the hon. Minister should recognise that association. It does not mean that he should write to them. And I am saying that there are institutions already vested with those powers of recognising the association. So it does not take away the power of the hon. Minister to invite the relevant association. No, it does not. My amendment is simply saying that before the hon. Minister can invite such an institution he must be sure it is recognised. That is all.
2. 00 p.m.
MR. SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr. Adjei-Darko 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think
that what the hon. Member is seeking to do should not create confusion for us; it is in line. After all, where it has been stated, various bodies have been listed and it is the responsibility of the hon. Minister who is making sure that this act works. He would at any particular time instruct letters to be distributed to various bodies which are to be represented on this. So the Minister's hand, with regard to invitation, has not been taken off whether it has been mentioned or not. But the problem we face here is that we are giving the Minister the power even for the recognition of the appropriate body. There are about five different associations and let us not forget that our Constitution also stipulates freedom of association.
So if there are five different associations and depending on where the Minister is coming from, he decides that he recognizes only association ‘A' and so he causes a letter to be written to association ‘A' to send a representative, we are going to create a crisis for ourselves. So it is important that we get to know
that of all bodies which are represented there, the Minister would cause letters to be sent to them so that they send their representatives. So what we are seeking to do here is that the associations should not necessarily be those recognized by the Minister.
They should be recognized associations which are relevant to what we want to achieve and if there are six of them, the Minister would write to all of them and they would bring their nominees or depending on the common forum they would have, name one nominee. So that is what the hon. Member from Wa West is trying to propose and I think we should go by that.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Hon.
Members, I think it would be appropriate that as much as possible, Bills should be read thoroughly and amendments proposed should be published. Now, the published amendment is virtually being set aside and the unpublished amendment is now being taken in full stage. I think that if proposed amendments are advertised, it would help to deal with the matter effectively.
Mr. W. O. Boafo 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I rise
to support the proposed amendment by the hon. Member for Wa West (Mr. Yieleh Chireh). Mr. Speaker, I think if we are to recognize bodies, it must be bodies recognized by law but not by persons so that we would do away with personality influences and personal decisions and so forth.
I also go with the proposal because the Constitution which is the fundamental law of this land, in the exercise of administrative functions sets some criterion under article 32 or 24. That requires that any person in administrative capacity taking a decision should be fair and non-discriminatory; and this is a guide
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee, what is your comment about the additional amendment added to yours?
Mr. Okoh 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think we
would have to accept that amendment.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Hon.
Chairman of the Committee, put the amendment, taking into consideration the further amendment proposed by the hon. Member for Wa West so that I would put the Question.
Mr. Okoh 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the amendment
now being proposed is “two persons nominated by a recognized association”.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
“A
recognized association” or “recognized associations”?
Mr. Okoh 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I take the
amendment again - delete and substitute “two persons nominated by recognized employers' associations”.
Question put and amendment agreed
to.
Mr. Okoh 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move,
clause 3, subclause (1), paragraph (f),
delete “two” and substitute “one”.
Mr. Chireh 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it is the same
principles that I am introducing, that it should be “one person nominated by a recognized organized labour union”.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
That is
additional to the amendment proposed by the hon. Chairman. Hon. Chairman, what do you say to that?
Mr. Okoh 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, that is a
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Not
necessarily. This is “organized labour” and the other was “employers' association”; they are two separate things.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:50 p.m.
Mr.
Speaker, just like you said, it does not necessarily flow from the amendment proposed by my hon. Colleague, because the first one says “two persons nominated by” - here, it is “nominated from”. So if you accept the principle of nomination by organized labour, you should say so because it is different. Mr. Speaker, I want to believe that it should be “nominated by organized labour” and not “from organized labour”.
Mr. Okoh 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, tha t
amendment is acceptable to us.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
So put
the amendment as it should be now, taking into consideration the proposal by the hon. Member for Wa West and then the proposal by the hon. Chief Whip.
Mr. Okoh 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the amendment is that one person nominated from organized labour - [Pause.]
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
You
have not taken into consideration the proposal from the Majority Chief Whip; he says, “nomination by organized labour”.
Mr. Okoh 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I will take
the amendment again - that “one person nominated by organized labour”.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
Very
well.
Mr. Ayariga 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think to say that one person nominated by organized labour -- Mr. Speaker, organized labour is so broad that I think we would be running into an even more serious problem. If we say organized labour, which one do we mean? Is it TUC or which one? Recognized by whom? [Interruption.] That was the issue the hon. Minister raised that we would have to - [Interruption.]
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
Hon. Members, do not talk across to each other; address the Chair.
Mr. Ayariga 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the reason why I walked to my hon. Colleague when we were having this debate was to ask him this critical question? Who does the recognition? Who identifies the workers' organization or labour organization that should send the nomination? This is because we all agree in principle that there are so many organized labour unions that there may be one that is more relevant to the issue of vocational training and that is the one that we should target.
The question is that, how do we do the identification? And who is vested with the authority to do the identification? That is why I walked over to my hon. Colleague to say that look, it is going to be a difficult exercise for us to legislate the process of recognition without involving somebody.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
So what is your proposal?
Mr. Ayariga 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think that we should probably go back to the original proposal that the recognition of the labour organization should be done by the Minister. For me that is the easiest, otherwise we would legislate and later on it would create more serious problems of who does the recognition or who identifies the particular labour organization.
rose
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
Hon. Member for Sunyani West, are you raising a point of order or you want to contribute?
Mr. Adjei-Darko 2:10 p.m.
Not a point of order.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
Then you may resume your seat.
Mr. Chireh 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am raising a point of order because he was not here when we voted for the other amendment. In fact, as my hon. Friend opposite explained, we should have recognitions by law. I am surprised he is asking, “recognition by whom”? By law; and who recognizes any union?
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
Hon. Member for Wa West, you have not established any point of order. You are arguing a case, which you are entitled to, but when he has finished.
Mr. Ayariga 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, indeed, I was not here when we voted on 3 (e), but
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
That was argument in respect of the previous amendment. We have taken a decision so you cannot go back to it.
Mr. Ayariga 2:10 p.m.
Yes, but the fact that we are still going through that debate shows that even though we passed the previous section without any consensus - [Interruption.]
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
So limit your argument to the present proposed amendment.
Mr. Ayariga 2:10 p.m.
Precisely; that is why I think that we should maintain it the way it is. If anything at all, I move for a further amendment; instead of recognized -- we may say identified by the Minister, because recognition is another matter. Recognition might be by, as he said, the chief labour officer or other persons or going through the legal processes. But the identification of which organization among the many labour organizations is more relevant to this Council and who should have a representation on the Council should be done by the Minister. He should just identify which one he thinks should be on the Council.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I do not see why we should still be going back and forth with this proposal. Mr. Speaker, the argument which we put forward for the first amendment also goes for this. Do we want to leave the recognition in the hands of a Minister when our Constitution has guaranteed freedom of association so that the Minister can say there are 10 associations but I recognize only one? The
Mr. Ayariga 2:10 p.m.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, he is misleading this House because I moved for a further amendment so that it no longer reads “recognized” but rather “identified by the Minister”. So the arguments about recognition being by law and an attempt - [Interruption.]
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
Hon. Member for Bawku Central, you are out of order. Your proposal did not constitute a decision of the House. Hon. Member for Sunyani West, continue.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 2:10 p.m.
So Mr. Speaker, once we have a way of recognizing associations as and when they are formed, we do not have to give another body or another power the authority to recognize associations. Rather, for the selection, if there are 10 labour organizations which - Let us take the example of even environment - When you go to the field now, you would have about 3 or 4 different organizations which are recognized, which are all operating in the field of environment. So that if you left them in the hands of a Minister to recognize one, then depending on the type of Minister you have at that time you would have a lot of confusion.
But once all these organizations have been registered and they are recognized by law, the Minister has the free hand. We do not have to put it in the law. He has a free hand to decide at any particular time, which is relevant - No, but to put it in the law, we simply say that the labour organizations which are recognized. And their recognition is already stated that they are recognized by law; that is all.
Because I have already said it that even nobody would start operating this law. It is the Minister who has to write and
he would have to have all the registered organizations on his desk and decide what criteria he is using to invite nominees from whichever organization or body. So to make the recognition to be done by the Minister, as the law states, I think, is confusion for ourselves.
Mr. K. A. Twumasi 2:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think that the problem now is the recognition by the Minister. As he stated, there are laws in this country that spell out how organized labour would be recognized. Now the Minister's work would be to find the body which has relevance to TVET. And therefore I would want to suggest that we maybe amend this one to be “one person nominated by a relevant organized labour by the Minister”, so that the Minister would find which of the organized labour organizations have relevance to technical and vocational education and training.
Mr. Kojo Armah 2:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
think the issue was set very simply by the hon. Member for Bawku Central. As the Deputy Minister is saying, the unions and the organized labour may already have been recognized by law. The issue is identifying which one has relevance to that particular activity. So I believe we need to look at the amendment and just insert the simple word “identified” - “organized union identified by the Minister”. I believe that should solve the problem.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
Very
well, I think you can neatly package it and let us have that.
Mr. Chireh 2:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, if you
look at all the arguments we are making, the issue is not about what the Minister should do. Indeed, I am saying that when you have a recognized organized labour union, the Minister will invite them. That is administrative. But I am also saying
that they should nominate the person. As it is now - that is why I am saying a “recognized organized labour union”.
Whichever union it is and it is recognized by law, the Minister then invites them to nominate the person. That is administrative; you do not put it in the law. What I am saying is that where the Minister is to recongize the union or the labour organization, that is where it goes against the grain of law, because the law has a way of recognizing people.
And now I am saying “and recognize”, which means that the Minister can then exercise his discretion to select any of the groups, that is, organized labour and then invite them to nominate their person. So that one you do not put it in the law. If you say he should identify them, you are clothing him with power and he can decide that even though these people are more relevant he is going to bring another person. So I still stand by my amendment.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
I will
take two more.
Mr. Ayariga 2:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think that, at least, there is some consensus among the Chairman, myself and the Deputy Minister that if we change “recognition” to “identified” it will serve the purpose that we are seeking to serve. The fact of the matter is that if you have three or four different labour unions who are in the same sector, what would happen is that they would take the piece of legislation -- It says that “labour union in that sector”. And even if the Minister invites them as he is proposing, four, five of them, they have different rivalries between them and it is going to be difficult for them to come to some consensus and say “Mr. ‘A' should represent us”.
But there is the need for us to have some

persons who can exercise some discretion and say, well, there are three labour unions in this sector. I think this is more vibrant. This has more experienced people and this would be more relevant to the work that we do and just ask that particular union to send two representations. And this one would not be recognition by law; it would not be as if the labour union does not exist and it is now the Minister who is bringing them into existence by an act of recognition. For me, it is a simple exercise of identifying which one you want to send as representation on the Council. I think that is enough.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
The argument the hon. Member for Wa West is making is that, in normal process, the Minister would invite the various labour organizations to agree on who should represent them and that it is an administrative approach and that there is still somebody who would play that intermediary role.
Now you are saying that the fact of the Minister identifying should be put in the law and his argument is that we do not need that because the Minister will not just decide on any level organisation to present somebody but that in the normal administrative process, he would invite the labour organizations and then ask them to present somebody. That is the thrust of his argument.
But let us get - Chairman, your proposal was simply the question of numbers. Now I would like to know which of the two arguments the Chairman goes with and then we would have two sets of proposed amendments and I will put the Question. Let me hear from the Chairman of the Committee.
Mr. Okoh 2:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think in the
earlier amendment, I made the same point
that if we leave it like that and we do not say that “recognized by the Minister”, we would not know who is going to recognize that particular association. Now I will go by the other amendment which says that “identified by the Minister”.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
So
there are two sets of amendments proposed now that instead of “recognized” we should have “identified”; and the hon. Member for Wa West says we should not have that at all, we should just say “organized labour”. I will then put the Question.
rose
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
Hon.
Member for Amenfi West - be very brief with any intervention now.
Mr. J. B. Aidoo 2:20 p.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, once we take the stance by hon. -- [Interruption] - Yes, it will introduce inconsistency in what we already have. It will just throw away the first amendment we made. It would mean we have to go back and also work on that.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
That is why I am going to put the Question because I will not overrule his right to propose an amendment.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I believe the issue raised by my hon. Colleague (Mr. Yieleh Chireh) really was to have consistency in the business of our law-making. He just intimated that in the previous ones that we have done, we have moved the hand of the Minister from these acts. Mr. Speaker, if today we have to go back to make it tidier - Because these arguments were raised earlier and the most recent one is the Institute of Journalism Bill, the same arguments came up. So for consistency sake I believe that we should go along the route proposed by hon. Yieleh Chireh -- “One person nominated by recognized organized labour”; and we
leave it at that.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
So hon. Members, the Question will relate to two proposed amendments. The first amendment simply says, that is, (f) “one person nominated by recognized labour”; and the other says “one person nominated by organized labour identified by the Minister”. I hope it is clear. The first amendment simply says “one person nominated by recognized organized labour” - simply. And the second one says “one person nominated by recognized organized labour identified by the Minister”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
Hon. Members, the second amendment falls so the first amendment is carried.
Mr. Okoh 2:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 3, subclause (1), paragraph (g), line 1, delete “non-governmental”.
Mr. Ayariga 2:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, there is a very
clear distinction between ‘governmental organizations' and ‘non-governmental organizations'. The intention of this clause is to provide non-governmental organizations an opportunity to play a role in the governance of vocational and technical education.
Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that
currently the non-governmental sector has been playing a very active role in this area. If we remove “non-governmental” from this clause, it is now going to read: “two persons from organizations that manage privately-owned technical or vocational training institutions”. Mr. Speaker, even the government establishments manage privately-owned vocational and technical training institutions. The Ministry manages
privately-owned institutions; generally it plays a role in the administration of privately-owned vocational training institutions.
But if we leave the phrase “non- governmental” in the clause, it makes it very clear that whereas the Government plays a role in the management of these institutions, we also have a non- government sector that plays a role and we want them to be actively involved. If you remove this clause, the border will not be clear. That is my concern. I understand the very intention is to ensure that the private sector plays a role, but I wonder whether if we remove the phrase and leave it as proposed it would carry that meaning.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:30 p.m.
Hon.
Member, will that not broaden it? If you leave the phrase “non-governmental” they will still be among the organizations.
Mr. Ayariga 2:30 p.m.
But the intention is
to recognize them specifically because the other clauses recognize all the other players except them. The Government is an active player and it is already recognized through all these institutions. So now, we want to recognize non- governmental actors who are actively involved in managing these institutions.
Mr. S. K. B. Manu 2:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
the amendment being proposed will muddy the waters. Mr. Speaker, we have churches that are operating vocational and technical institutions. Are they non-governmental organizations? They are not. They are not registered as non- governmental organizations. It is rather when we put it as “privately-owned” that even if the organization is a registered non-governmental organization, then it qualifies to be under that broad description.
Other than that, if you say, “non- governmental organizations”, they are
Mr. S. K. B. Manu 2:30 p.m.


those registered with the Ministry of Manpower, Youth and Employment and churches are not registered; they will be cut out. So in order to make it all- embracing, we must say “institutions that are privately-owned and managed”.

So I go with the proposed amendment

by the Chairman of the Committee.
Mr. Chireh 2:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the
amendment is proper. By removing “non- governmental”, we have not excluded them; we have rather given them an opportunity also to be included. And I think that it was more discriminatory to allow only “non-governmental” there. I think that once they are not excluded - In making laws we should not be excluding anybody - They should be there. If government institutions should be there, they should also be there. So the amendment should be supported.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Okoh 2:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 3, subclause (1), paragraph (g), line 2, after “institutions” insert “at least one of whom shall be a woman”.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:30 p.m.
I think your amendment should just have gone to “at least”, because we already have “one of whom is a woman”.
Mr. J. B. Aidoo 2:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, exactly so, because we have already only two persons, so there is no need to bring the “at least”. It is just two persons and it should be “one of whom is a woman”. Why do we bring “at least”? What is the least number in 2, if not one?
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:30 p.m.
Hon.
Member for Amenfi East, they are looking at a situation where both could be women.
Mr. Ayariga 2:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, in the first place, I do not think that it is fair that for privately-owned and managed technical and vocational institutions, after giving them only two slots, we should further restrict the two slots that we have given them by mandating that one of them must be a woman.
Mr. Speaker, the President is already required to nominate two persons, one of whom is a woman. The Ministries are represented by at least four persons and we also have clause 3 (1) (d) which says, “two persons with expertise in technical and vocational education and training . . .”
We have a wide array of appointments that are more related to the Government sector, Ministries, the President, et cetera. All those are related to the government sector and even though there are so many, we are saying that the President in nominating them should at least have one woman included.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:30 p.m.
Hon. Member for Bawku Central, when you say restricting them even with the two, are you implying that when it is a woman, then it is not from them and it is somewhere else?
Mr. Ayariga 2:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it is perfectly possible that if you ask them to go and bring two people, they will bring two women. That is up to them. But if you tell them to bring two people but one of them must be a woman, assuming that among the people that they want to represent them, they are not convinced that the women there will be very effective in representing them, we would be tying their hands. That is the point that I am making.
The affirmative action policy is being captured here under another clause where the President must have a woman there. And I am saying that the Ministries are already sending representations. If we want affirmative action, let us be conscious and include women.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:30 p.m.
Your point is well made.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, in respect of those that my hon. Colleague has enumerated, if you come to clause 3 (1) (i), (ii), (iii) and (iv), in all these areas we are talking about only one person, so we cannot say that that person must be a man or a woman; they should have the discretion to bring a woman or a man. But where we have two persons, that is where we are saying that one of them must be a woman.

Mr. Speaker, for consistency I think that I would want to move a further amendment. It should not be “at least one of whom shall be a woman” because when we come to 3 (1) (h) we have “two other persons nominated by the President, one of whom is a woman”. So in respect of that formulation it should not be “one of whom shall be a woman” but “one of whom is a woman”. I am not worried about the “‘at least”, but I am saying that “shall be” should be deleted and in its place we insert “is”, just to make sure that we have that consistency with what obtains in 39 (1) (h).
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 p.m.
Very
well, except that you could as well say the (h) too should also assume the “shall”.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:40 p.m.
Mr.
Speaker, with respect if the recent formulations that we would be having in the Bills - [Interruption] -- We rather
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 p.m.
Very
well, your point is well made.
Mr. Manu 2:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the hon.
Member for Bawku Central's argument is not tenable. When we say at least one of whom - I am not too much concerned about “is” or “shall” -- be a woman, they have the right to bring two women but they cannot bring two men; this is in response to affirmative action. If you look at the number of people to form that group, it is only one that we have said should be a woman so far. And in order that the number of women should be appreciated, we are saying that for these last two people at least one of them should be a woman. The two can end up being women but we want to insulate a situation where the two would be men, in response to affirmative action.
Mr. Chireh 2:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I support
the amendment. I would want to say that first and foremost, this group of people that we are talking about -- vocational and technical - Indeed, if you look at the vocational side, women dominate. As we are saying, it is a special category of people and where women's voice - The women are the ones who do this vocational work and I do not want to say this but it is not fair for the hon. Member to say so.
Just recently when we passed the Millennium Development Authority Act and the Board set up under it was inaugurated or nominated by the President, only one woman was included because we said “at least one of whom shall be a woman”. In this particular case we are recognising the industry as it is, that the technical side is mainly dominated by men and the vocational side is dominated mainly by women; and women's voice should be heard.

Indeed, we should have even said all of them should be women, but fortunately the other provision as the hon. Member is saying, is just one of consistency -- the second one. But I was raising a point of order that we have not come to that yet. Nobody should be confusing the two; one is a category belonging to the operators and this other category is for the President; and we want more women on the Board.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 p.m.
Hon.
Chairman of the Committee, the proposal by the hon. Majority Chief Whip is that instead of your “shall” it should be ‘is', for consistency with the next paragraph; what do you say to that?
Mr. Okoh 2:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I have no
problem with accepting “is”.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 p.m.
Very
well.
Mr. Ayariga 2:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think
that my good Friend, hon. Yieleh Chireh is about to misunderstand me, I hope he does not misunderstand me. It is not about gender sensitivity or insensitivity; I am simply imagining a situation where we are conceding some power to actors in the private sector and in my opinion we are at the same time tying their hands in a certain way.
I think that if we are giving them the power, let us give them the power. If we want to do affirmative action, let us also look at the powers that we have reserved to ourselves and scale up the level of affirmative action that we want to take. I am simply saying that the President has already been given the power to appoint, or he has been obliged to appoint a woman. The Ministry and Assembly representation, if we want more women we can do that; but with the private sector we should be a little careful in terms of the limitation.
So Mr. Speaker, I accept the proposal
that is being made except that I am usually not comfortable when you give somebody power with one hand and take it back with the other.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 p.m.
Well, if you are taking it for a good cause, why not? Hon. Members, the amendment now should be
“two persons from an organisation that managed privately-owned technical or vocational training institutions, at least one of whom is a woman”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Okoh 2:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 3, subclause (1), add a new paragraph as follows: “one person nominated by the Institution of Incorporated Engineers”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Okoh 2:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 3, subclause (2), line 2, before “Constitution” insert “1992”.
Mr. Chireh 2:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I have a further amendment but because in the laws we do not normally put the 1992, it does not harm anything to add it. My further amendment is that if you look at the article that we are quoting and the article is 70. Article 70 (1) states:
“The President shall, acting in consultation with the Council of State, appoint --
(d) the Chairmen and other members of -”.
So before “other members” in that clause we should say “the Chairman and other members” to be consistent with what the Constitution provides.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 p.m.
Very well, Chairman of the Committee, what is your reaction to that proposed amendment;
that instead of just leaving it at “members” we should include in the appointment to be made by the President, “the chairman and other members”?
Mr. Okoh 2:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it is acceptable to us.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 2:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the inclusion of “other members” is acceptable but the insertion of “1992”, I think, is not necessary. We have only one Constitution for the Republic of Ghana so there is no need mentioning “1992” Constitution.
Mr. Okoh 2:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, we under- stand. We have only one Constitution but I think the addition there does not take anything from the amendment that we have proposed; and to remove all that, it means we are specific; we are talking about the 1992 Constitution.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
Hon. Members, there are two sets of amendments. One is that the Chairman and other members of the Board shall be appointed by the President in accordance with article 70 of the Constitution. That is one amendment.
The other amendment is that the Chairman and other members of the Board shall be appointed by the President in accordance with article 70 of the 1992 Constitution. I hope you get the two clearly. The first one does not have the ‘1992' there, with the argument that it is known that that is the operative Constitution. And the other amendment which includes the Chairman and other members has the “1992 Constitution”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Okoh 2:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 3, add a new subclause as follows:
“The Board shall perform the functions of the Council”.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it is just a small point that I want us to have a look at before you put the final Question. It is in respect of 3(1)(c)(iv). Mr. Speaker may recollect that we have severally amended various provisions in (i), (ii), (iii), (iv). I thought that the emphasis in (iv) should be on ‘industry'.
So, just like we did in those ones up there, we should say the ‘Ministry responsible for industry' because, indeed, trade has nothing to do there. So I thought that just in conformity with what we had done earlier, we should have done same there. I have had discussions with the hon. Deputy Minister and I think he agrees with me.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
Well, one substantive point was made, that it should be “industry”, was that the agreement?
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the argument was in respect of (iii) where we said the emphasis should be on ‘science'.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
So are you proposing a new amendment?
Mr. Kyei Mensah-Bonsu 2:50 p.m.
That is for (iv); that the emphasis should be on “industry” - so the Ministry responsible for industry.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
Well, that is a new amendment. Next time, bring it on time; but I will allow it for the consideration of the House.
Mr. Manu 2:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I support the amendment because nobody knows, maybe tomorrow, the Ministry of Trade would be annexed to Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning and, in that case, we would have to amend the law. So if
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
Very well.
Mr. Chireh 2:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I support the amendment, but to also add this to guide the draftsperson. The last clause that we accepted, the new clause should really be the first, in terms of the functions of the governing Council, to link the Council to the Board.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
Very well, that will be rearranged by the draftsperson.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 3 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 4 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 5 - Meetings of the Board.
Mr. Chireh 2:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I advertised my amendment. My amendment says that - [Interruption.]
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
You advertised it? I do not see it on the Order Paper.
Mr. Chireh 2:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Table Office has my amendment; I have circulated it. The amendment in that one is on subclause (4) - [Interruption.]
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
You say subclause (4)?
Mr. Chireh 2:50 p.m.
Clause 5 -
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
Because we have already passed 4.
Mr. Chireh 2:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I said subclause (4) of clause 5. If you look at the construction, it says:
“The chairperson shall preside at meetings of the Board and in the absence of the chairperson, a member of the Board elected by the members present . . .”
I want it to stop there. Let us delete the rest. That is my amendment.
Mr. Okoh 2:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think the amendment is acceptable because the addition is a mere repetition.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
Very well.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
rose
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
Hon. Member, do you have an amendment to clause 4?
Mr. Kyei Mensah-Bonsu 3 p.m.
That is so, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in respect of clause 4, I am sorry I have to bring you back; but I just want to propose to the Committee to look at clause 4 (5). Mr. Speaker, it states:
“The President may by letter addressed to a member revoke the appointment of that member.”
Mr. Speaker, the Committee may have a look at it because again if we flash back, some members of the governing body are going to be nominated by their bodies. They are put on the Board by virtue of the fact that the President swears them in; and then for whatever reason, perhaps for no reason, a President may
by a letter addressed to the person revoke the appointment of that person. I think we should look at it critically. So in my view, it should be for some stated reasons pertaining to what has been provided in 4(1), (2), (3) and (4).
Mr. Speaker, as I said, I am just commending it to the Committee to have a second look at it so that we may have a look at it at the Second Consideration Stage.

Clause 5 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

C lause 7 - Es tab l i shment o f Committees.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3 p.m.
Hon.
Chairman, I see a proposed amendment which is just a spelling mistake.
Mr. Okoh 3 p.m.
That is so, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3 p.m.
I do not
think you should go through the trouble; the drafters will just correct the mistake.
Mr. Okoh 3 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, thank you.
Clause 7 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 8 and 9 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 10 - Standing Committees of the Council.
Mr. Okoh 3 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 10, subclause (1), paragraph (a), delete and substitute “the National
Technical and Vocational Education and Training Qualification Committee”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Okoh 3 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 10, subclause (4), line 1, after “delegate” delete “a” and substitute “its”.
Mr. Manu 3 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, you cannot
have “a functions”. The article “a” cannot go with plural and so it has to be “its functions”.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3 p.m.
So you
agree with the amendment?
Mr. Manu 3 p.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 3 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, much
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3 p.m.
Hon. Members, some of these are just typographical errors and should not be subject of motions for amendment; they can be left to the draftspersons. There is no contention here at all; the draftspersons would correct it accordingly.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 10 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 11 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 12 - Executive Director.
Mr. Okoh 3 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 12, subclause (2), line 2, delete “and

is a member of the Board”.

Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Okoh 3 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 12, subclause (3), lines 1 and 2, delete “and act as secretary to the Board”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 12 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 13 and 14 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 15 - Secretary to the Board.
Mr. Okoh 3 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 15, subclause (3), line 1, delete “the functions that the Board or” and substitute “functions that”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Okoh 3:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 15, subclause (4), delete “is in the performance of functions under this section” and substitute “in the performance of the functions under this section shall be”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 15 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 16 and 17 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 18 - Funds of the Council.
Mr. Okoh 3:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 18, subclause (2), line 2, before
Mr. Okoh 3:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 19, subclause (2), line 3, after “Minister” insert “responsible”.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
Hon. Member, to replace the “for” - “Minister for Finance”.
Mr. Okoh 3:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it should be “Minister responsible for”.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
Very well, I think the amendment follows from the order of arrangements.
Mr. Amporfo Twumasi 3:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think that is not very necessary because in the ‘Interpretation', the definition of “Minister” is given. There is no need adding the “responsible” here.
Mr. Okoh 3:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, we have not provided the interpretation of “Minister”; unless we go to the White Paper that gives us the interpretation of who the Minister should be. This is why we are inserting “responsible for Finance”.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee, if you look at clause 25 “Interpretations”, you have - “Minister” means the Minister for whom responsibility for technical and vocational education and training has been assigned”. Hon. Deputy Minister, that is the definition you have for “Minister”, in the Bill.
Mr. Amporfo Twumasi 3:10 p.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, I think that he is right.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
Very
well.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 19 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 20 - Accounts and audit.
Mr. Chireh 3:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, if we look at subclause (5), there is mention of a “Board” there. It says “the financial year of the Board”; it should not be “the Board”, it should be “the Council”.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee, have you seen the point he is making? It is 20 (5); for the institution it is the “Council” and not the “Board”.
Mr. Okoh 3:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would want other hon. Members to react to this while I go through my papers.
Mr. Mahama Ayariga 3:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think this is a straightforward matter. We are dealing with the Council so it should be “the financial year of the Council”.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
I think the draftspersons should take note of that.
Mr. Manu 3:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, what they are saying, if we do not look at it carefully, we may be deceived to accept it. But clause 20 is dealing with the Board. (1) The Board; (2) the Board; the Council is not mentioned anywhere here. Why are we now saying “the Council”?
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
Hon. Member for Ahafo Ano South, “the Board shall keep books of Accounts” for who? For the Council. The Auditor-General's work will be on the Council; so it is in order to have “the Council” there. The activities of the Board were those that you
were looking at, but the accounts will be for the institution. Is that clear?
Mr. Manu 3:10 p.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker.
Clause 20 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 21 to 24 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 25 - Interpretation.
Mr. Okoh 3:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 25, “Existing Enactments”, line 2, delete “Technical” and substitute “Technician”.
A wrong word has been used over there.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
Are
you amending “the existing enactments”?
Mr. Okoh 3:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, what we
are trying to do here is that in “existing enactments”, that is line 2, we are deleting the word, “technical”. That is the only word that we are deleting there and we are substituting that with “technician”.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
“Technician examination”? Then it would read, “technician examination.”?
Mr. Okoh 3:20 p.m.
That is so, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
Very
well. I think it is straightforward. I am sure it was a typographical error.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Okoh 3:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 25, “Existing capacities”, line 1, delete “Education” and substitute

“Examinations” and at end, add “and National Vocational and Training Institute”.

Question put and amendment agreed to.

Clause 25 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.

The Long Title ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr. Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
That
brings us to the end of the Consideration Stage.
ADJOURNMENT 3:20 p.m.