Debates of 16 Nov 2006

MR. SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10 a.m.
CORRECTION OF VOTES 10 a.m.
AND PROCEEDINGS AND 10 a.m.
THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
Order! Order! Hon. Members, we have the Votes and Proceedings for Tuesday, 14th November and Wednesday, 15th November, 2006. Pages 1 . . . 4 - [Interruption] - Order! Order! Pages 5 . . . 38.
Mr. P. C. Appiah-Ofori 10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
page 38 - Committee on Poverty Reduction Strategy is not an ad hoc committee. It is a Standing Committee properly constituted, so I would suggest that it is removed from here to its proper place.
Indeed, Mr. Speaker, Ghana Parliament
has been the first Parliament in the whole of Africa to have a Committee on Poverty Reduction Strategy so we should not reduce our status.
Mr. B. K. Ayeh 10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, on that
same page 38, item numbered 8, my name has been misspelt. It is “Ayeh” and not “Ayey” as it appears.
Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
Pages 39 . . . 62.
Votes and Proceedings, Wednesday, 15th November, 2006. Pages 1 . . . 8.
Mr. Appietu-Ankrah 10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
page 8, hon. Nii Adu Mante is the substantive Chairman of the Finance Committee and was not acting on behalf of the Chairman. He is the substantive
Chairman of the Finance Committee - page 8.
Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
Pages 9 . . . 11.
Mr. Yieleh Chireh 10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, on
page 10, (xix), the amendment I proposed which was accepted was “all variation” so “all” should be included, not “variation” alone.
Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
Pages 11 . . . 19. Hon.
Members, we have the Official Report for Friday, 10th November, 2006.
Mr. Lee Ocran 10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, at
column 354, the last paragraph. The word I used was “anachronistic” and not “aphoristic”. So I want the correction to be effected.
Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
It will be done.
Mr. Haruna Iddrisu 10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, at
column 396 running through to 398, the euro sign is mistaken for a capital “E” -- euro sign for twenty-five million euros and subsequently ten million euros; and it goes through. So the “E” should be substituted for the correct euro sign.
Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
Thank you for that.
Hon. Members, we now move to item 3 -- Questions. Majority Leader, is the Minister for Presidential Affairs in the House?
Mr. Felix K. Owusu-Adjapong 10 a.m.
Yes,
Mr. Speaker.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 10:10 a.m.
MINISTRY OF PRESIDENTIAL 10:10 a.m.
AFFAIRS 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Kwadwo Mpiani 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, work on the Seat of Government and Presidency building being executed by Messrs Shapoorji Pallonji and Co.
Limited of India commenced on the 2nd July 2006 and is expected to be completed in 18 months, i.e. by 31st December, 2007. Construction is 14 per cent complete and is well ahead of schedule. At the current pace of work, it is expected that the project would be completed at least one month ahead of schedule.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister for Presidential Affairs, the total estimated cost of the entire project - office and residence for the President.
Mr. Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Hon. Member for
Tamale South, would you consider this as a supplementary question? [Interruptions] - Order! Order!
Mr. H. Iddrisu 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the hon.
Mr. Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Order! Order! Minister
for Presidential Affairs, if you have the answer, go ahead.
Mr. Mpiani 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, in a
construction of this nature, it will be wrong for me to come and stand before this House to give you the cost of the project. [Interruptions.] Mr. Speaker, if the hon. Member had built a house before, he would accept that what I am saying - [Interruptions] - he will realize that - [Interruptions.]
Mr. Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Order! Order!
Mr. Mpiani 10:10 a.m.
He will realize that the
Mr. Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Order! Order! Hon.
Members, let us have order.
Mr. Mpiani 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, he will
Mr. Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Order! Order! Minister
for Presidential Affairs, if you have the figure, give it.
Mr. Mpiani 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I will give
Mr. Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Order! Order! Hon.
Members, order! - [Uproar] - Majority Leader?
Mr. Felix Owusu-Adjapong 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I believe that he needed to give the preliminary statement because this House has been given the contract sum -- when we took the decision. But if it is the figure that we want to be repeated, I think he should repeat that figure so that we make progress. [Interruptions.]
Mr. A. S. K. Bagbin 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I believe that the hon. Minister for Presidential Affairs should take this House seriously. [Hear! Hear!] - Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minister himself is paid with our taxes. The information we have asked for is paid for with our taxes; and the information must be made known to the people who have paid for the generation of that information.
Mr. Speaker, it is not the case that the loan we approved is the total cost of the project because they were here a few days ago to ask for an additional loan from this House; and we raised this question
because we wanted to know the total cost of the project. We were even given the information that the additional amount of 5 million that was being requested was not sufficient, according to the Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning, Dr. Akoto Osei, on the floor of this House.
Mr. Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Hon. Members, let us have decorum; we want to make progress - [Interruptions] - Order! Order! Hon. Member for Tamale South is on his feet.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I believe that I still have a right to a follow-up question. Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minister in his Answer is definite that 14 per cent of the work is complete. I want to find out what that 14 per cent represents in cedis and further find out from the Minister - [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker 10:10 a.m.
One question at a time.
Mr. Mpiani 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to assure all that I take this House seriously. [Uproar.] - Mr. Speaker, as a matter of fact, I have been a Member of Parliament before. And Mr. Speaker, therefore, I know the importance of this House. So it will be wrong for any hon. Member to assume that I am not taking this House seriously; that is very wrong - [Interruptions.]
Mr. Speaker, I was asked a Question [Interruption]-- and I answered the Question. [Some hon. Members: No! No!] If the hon. Member believes that the Question has not been answered - [Interruptions.]
Mr. Mpiani 10:20 a.m.
If the hon. Member
believes that the Question has not been answered to his satisfaction, he has every right to ask for clarification. But I think it is wrong for an hon. Member to think that I am not taking this House seriously. Mr. Speaker, that is not right. - [Interruptions] - Mr. Speaker, the question he has asked needs notice. [Interruptions.]
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Order!
Mr. Mpiani 10:20 a.m.
The hon. Member wants
Mr. H. Iddrisu 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, on the
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon. Member for
Tamale South, if you have other questions, ask them.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to
find out from the hon. Minister how much will be required to fund this project from the Consolidated Fund and from loans.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon. Member for Tamale South, this is not a supplementary question. You may come back properly.
Mr. Bagbin 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, definitely,
I know the Parliament that my hon. Colleague, the hon. Minister for Presidential Affairs was a member of. That was the 1979 Parliament. I know
how serious that Parliament was, and he was serious at that time because he was not in government. Now that he is in government, his attitude has changed - [Laughter.] Mr. Speaker, we want to know the total estimated cost of the project.
Mr. Mpiani 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, this House
approved a loan of thirty million for the construction of - [Interruptions.] [Some hon. Members: Thirty million what?] Mr. Speaker, this House approved a loan of thirty million United States dollars for the construction of the Seat of Government. Mr. Speaker, as I stated in my earlier Answer, in construction, there are variations. So it will be wrong for me to come and stand here and say the total estimated cost of the building is so much. If they want to know - [Interruptions.]
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Order! Order! Hon.
Minister, do not be distracted at all.
Mr. Mpiani 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, if this House
wants to know the estimated cost as at now, as I stand here now, then I need notice of the question.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
I shall allow only one
more - Hon. Minority Leader?
Mr. Bagbin 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I do not know the difficulty the hon. Minister is facing in this matter. He is talking about variation. There must be figures that will be varied. It is the figure which is termed the contract sum which will be varied in future, if the need arises. It is that contract sum figure we are asking for. What is that figure?
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon. Minority Leader,
my impression is that he will come back properly.
Mr. Bagbin 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the hon.
Minister did not say that. The hon.
Minister said that we approved a thirty million dollar loan for the project. But Mr. Speaker, we are talking about the contract sum, which is the estimated cost of the contract that they awarded to this company. And he is talking about it being varied, and we are looking for that sum. Before we get to the second stage of variation, what is that contract sum?
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon. Minister, do you
have the figure here?
Mr. Mpiani 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the contract
sum at the time of signing the contract was thirty million United States dollars.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon. Members, we are
making progress.
Question 824, hon. Member for North Dayi (Ms. Akua Sena Dansua). Is somebody asking this question on her behalf?
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I crave
your indulgence to ask the Question on behalf of the hon. Member who is outside the House.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Go ahead.
Ministry of Communications (Substantive Chief Director)
Q. 824. Mr. J. K. Gidisu (on behalf
of Ms. Akua Sena Dansua) asked the Minister for Presidential Affairs why the Ministry of Commmunications did not have a substantive Chief Director.
Mr. Mpiani 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Public Services Commission interviewed a number of applicants for appointment as Chief Directors in 2005. Thirty-four (34) of the candidates were shortlisted. As part of the selection process, due diligence had to be done on all the candidates.

So far, due diligence has been completed on 29 of them. The Office of the Head of Civil Service (OHCS) in collaboration with the Ministry of Public Sector Reforms, organized a training programme for them, and they have since been issued with appointment letters and posted to some of the Ministries and Agencies.

Due diligence is yet to be completed on the remaining five (5) persons, one of whom has been earmarked for the Ministry of Communications.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, how does the hon. Minister reconcile the very important office of Communications with others in terms of the urgency of appointing a substantive Chief Director, for well over a year now?
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon. Member for Tongu Central, ask other questions, please.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Ministry of Communications is a very vital organ of State and for the hon. Minister to agree that for well over a year now, it has been without a substantive Chief Director, how does he reconcile the urgency of government business with regard to that Ministry?
Mr. Mpiani 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, in fact, all Ministries of State are very, very important. As at now, there is somebody who is acting as the Chief Director and I believe he is doing his work very, very well.
The Office of the Head of Civil Service has a duty to make sure that whoever is appointed is the right person for the job and that is why we are having this due diligence. So I would ask my hon. Colleague to allow the Ministry to do its work and the right person would be
appointed for that position.
Mr. Mpiani 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, they all
live in Ghana.
Mr. Bagbin 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, this is a
very important question. We just want to know what constitutes due diligence in this matter. What do we mean by due diligence?
Mr. Mpiani 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, as I stated
Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Order! Order!
Mr. Bagbin 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, is the
hon. Minister telling us that he does not understand what he just read to this House?
Mr. Mpiani 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I definitely
understood what I read to this House.
Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
One more, Minority
Leader.
Mr. Bagbin 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, would he
Mr. Mpiani 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I believe
Mr. Mpiani 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the
National Communications Authority was establ ished by the National Communications Authority Act, 1996 (Act 524).
Under article 5(1) of Act 524, “The governing body of the Authority shall be a Board which shall be responsible for securing the discharge of the functions of the Authority.”
Article 29 (1) of the Act provides that
“There shall be appointed for the Authority a Director-General who shall be responsible for the management and administration of the Authority.”
Section (3) of article 29 states,
“The Director-General shall be appointed by the President in accordance with the advice of the Board, given in consultation with the Public Services Commission.”
Article 40 provides --
“The Minister for Transport and Communications shall have ministerial responsibility for the Authority.”
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, the hon. Minister has engaged himself in just a rhetoric definition of the functions of the Board.
Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Hon. Member, ask a
supplementary question.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, in that
wise, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister for how long the Board has been without a substantive Director- General.
Mr. F. K. Owusu-Adjapong 10:30 a.m.
Mr.
Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Order! Order!
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Which word did he use?
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
my hon. Colleague said all that he did was to give a rhetoric answer, but I think that it is a very, very considered answer which must be respected by my hon. Colleague.
Mr. Bagbin 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to
differ. Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minister is asked to tell us why the National Communications Authority does not have a substantive Director-General. The hon. Minister in his Answer just quoted the law and he has not told us why. Mr. Speaker, now he has tried to give the indication that the question should be directed to a different Ministry. But Mr. Speaker, in his
own Answer, he quoted
“The Director-General shall be appointed by the President in accordance with the advice of the Board, given in consultation with the Public Services Commission.'”
Mr. Speaker, he is the Minister
Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Minority Leader,
you are not doing the questioning at the moment.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Ask a question.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, my question to the hon. Minister is, for how long has that Board been without a substantive Director-General; for how long now?
Mr. Mpiani 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am
not in a position to give that answer -- [Interruptions.] I would have to consult the hon. Minister for Communications before I can give that answer.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, would
the hon. Chief of Staff and Minister for Presidential Affairs agree that the absence of a substantive Director-General has been the cause of the various wranglings in terms of the activities of the Board? By this, I mean the granting of frequency to some people who have applied and inaction on them so far.
Mr. Mpiani 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I do not
agree.
Dr. Benjamin Kunbuor 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I did hear the hon. Minister indicate about
his level of seriousness towards this House in answering questions. I would want to know from the hon. Minister whether one is capable of having article 5 (1) under an Act of Parliament.
Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Article?
Dr. Kunbuor 10:30 a.m.
Article 5 (1) of Act
Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Hon. Member for Lawra Nandom, that cannot be a question. That is not a supplementary question.
Dr. Kunbuor 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the question is that in the hon. Minister's Answer -- I am giving the background in terms of his own commitment to his level of seriousness to this House. And I would want to find out whether an Act of Parliament is capable of having articles as we have at page 7 on the Answer to Question 825. [Laughter.]
Mr. K. Opare-Hammond 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, with respect, I want to seek your guidance and your direction on Question 825 - [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon. Member for
Mr. Opare-Hammond 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
You may resume your
seat if you have no question.
Mr. F. Twumasi-Appiah 10:40 a.m.
Mr.
Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon. Members, I am
in charge.
Mr. Twumasi-Appiah 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,

in the Minister's Answer he mentioned and with your permission I quote --

“Article 40 provides that ‘The Minis te r for Transpor t and Communicat ions shal l have ministerial responsibility for the Authority'”.

Will the Minister be kind enough to personally tell us in this case who the Minister for Transport and Communication is?
Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon. Member for Sene, repeat your question, please.
Mr. Twumasi-Appiah 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the question here is, the hon. Minister mentioned in his Answer that article 40 provides that the Minister for Transport and Communication shall have ministerial responsibility for the Authority. Will the Minister be kind enough at this time to tell us who is the Minister for Transport and Communication who shall have ministerial responsibility over the Authority.
Mr. Mpiani 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, this House enacted Act 524. I was quoting from the Act; that is what is in the Act. This House can amend it to remove the Transport; I was just quoting and therefore I cannot change the law as it is. At the time of this Act they had the Minister of Transport and Communication and this honourable House approved of that; that is the law and I cannot change the law at this stage.
Mr. Twumasi-Appiah 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Order! Order! Hon. Member for Sene, what is your question, please?
Mr. Twumasi-Appiah 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, presently who is the Minister who is supposed to have the ministerial responsibility over the Authority?
Mr. Mpiani 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Communications has responsibility for the Authority.
Mr. Bagbin 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, would the hon. Minister agree with me that under the National Communications Authority Act, 1996, there are no article 5, article 29 and article 40?
Mr. Mpiani 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, it is very interesting that the two hon. Members who raised these issues are all lawyers. Unfortunately, I am not; but I have been advised that in Acts we do not have articles; we have clauses and therefore what is here -- [Uproar.]
Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Order! Order!
Mr. Mpiani 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, as I stated earlier, I am not a lawyer; my ignorance of the law came up just now. So if something is wrong I have to agree it is wrong. I have been advised that that is not what it should be and therefore there should not be any article as it is.
Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Minister for Presidential Affairs, thank you very much for appearing to answer these Questions.
Hon. Members, we may now move on to item 6 -- Foreign Exchange Bill at the Consideration Stage.
BILLS - CONSIDERATION STAGE 10:40 a.m.
  • [Resumption of Consideration from 15/11/06]
    • Mr. H. Iddrisu 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, if there is no relationship between what is being proposed and what was agreed on by this House yesterday -- Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minority Leader pointed out that the Bank of Ghana is autonomous and independent, and we insisted that the Minister should not be given any role under this Act. It must be left to any person seeking redress to go to court. Therefore this amendment is misplaced and must be withdrawn. And when you say procedure specified in section (6), what does section 6 say? We need additional information on that; but I am opposed to this amendment.
    Mr. Agyei-Addo 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, yesterday we made a request that we should stand this amendment down to be reconsidered; so I do not know why my hon. Friend is bringing it up now.
    Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
    Do you intend to move this amendment?
    Mr. Agyei-Addo 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think the request was that we should stand this particular amendment down and then have it reconsidered. That was the request that we made yesterday.
    Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
    Hon. Members, whatever it is, let us make progress. This is stood down for further consideration.
    Clause 23 - Search and seizure.
    Mr. Agyei-Addo 10:40 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 23, subclause (1), paragraph (b), line 5, after “Service” insert “or the Immigration Service”.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr. Agyei-Addo 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 23, subclause (4), line 3, after “Service” insert “or the Immigration Service”.
    Mr. H. Iddrisu 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I have a difficulty accepting this proposed amendment. Mr. Speaker, we are dealing with foreign exchange and the role distinctions are very clear. At the port of entry we know that Customs officials are responsible for this. Immigration officials, we know what they are responsible for; recently, we have had reports that even people entering this country, they do not have details or records of those people.
    Why are we going to add them to this? I have a difficulty. It must be left to Customs officials and not the Immigration Service. This insertion is not necessary and I urge hon. Members to vote against it, other than that we will be creating role conflicts between Immigration officials and the Customs officials. By law this ought to be done by Customs officials.
    Mr. Opare-Hammond 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I speak in support of the amendment. Mr. Speaker, at the committee level we considered this and I believe my hon. Colleague is not current. Right now, with money issues, with the trend in this country, Mr. Speaker, the Immigration Service is being expanded to include what we call border guards, et cetera.
    Mr. Speaker, at the committee level we considered this extensively and we thought that due to the fact that the Immigration Service performs a very important role at our borders, they should be included in those who would help execute this foreign exchange transactions.
    Mr. Speaker, I therefore want to ask hon. Members to support the amendment
    Mr. Yieleh Chireh 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think that we should oppose the amendment. First and foremost, we are talking about money and in foreign exchange, traditionally, it is the Customs, Excise and Preventive Service (CEPS) which is responsible for raising taxes.
    You have asked Immigration Service to help police your borders and to ensure that the borders are secure and you are now asking them to also be involved in this foreign exchange business. I think that apart from creating conflicts between the two Services the attraction for dealing with the money aspect will be more than for immigration duties. I therefore urge hon. Members not to allow us to create conflicts here. We should vote against the amendment.
    Mr. Appiah-Ofori 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, everybody knows that both CEPS and Immigration Service actually police our borders. There are certain entry points which are manned by only CEPS - [Interruption.] Go to the Volta Region, you will see it - [Uproar.]
    Maj. (Dr.) (Alhaji) M.Ahmed (retd) -- rose --
    Mr. Speaker 10:50 a.m.
    Hon. Member for Ayawaso East, do you have a point of order to raise?
    Maj. (Dr.) (Alhaji) M. Ahmed (retd): Yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my point of order is that the hon. Member is misleading this House. There is no border post in this country where you have only Immigration officials or Customs officials. We have the two Services manning all our borders, and their duties are clearly defined.
    Mr. Appiah-Ofori 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, it appears my hon. Colleagues or those who are opposed to this amendment have not read the provisions properly. It is saying that “Customs, Excise and Preventive Service or Immigration Service” so that if at any entry point Customs officers are not there and Immigration officers are there, they can do that job for the benefit of this country.
    So I do not see anything wrong with it at all, Mr. Speaker. We looked at it at the committee level and found out that it is in the best interest of the nation for us to include the Immigration Service. So that at any time if there is no CEPS officer there and an Immigration officer is there he would perform this function to save this country. So I urge everybody to support this amendment.
    Mr. Bagbin 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I believe strongly that in this matter we have to consult the authorities on the ground. It is good that as part of policy formulation we are talking about the implementation -- how easily this law would be implemented when passed -- and there seems to be some conflict as to the realities on the ground. Because, Mr. Speaker, it is important that we separate the financial aspect from the documentary inspection aspect, which is done by the Immigration Service. They inspect the documents to make sure that they comply with all the laws we pass on immigration.
    The financial aspect which is handled by the Customs, Excise and Preventive Service (CEPS) is something that we have to look at. If at the end of the day we do not have the officials there, we can employ them to man the offices. But let us get that clarified so that we know which unit is to be given this function, or else at the border there can be serious conflicts in the collection of the monies either by the Immigration Service or by CEPS; and that will retard the implementation of the law.
    Mr. Hackman Owusu-Agyemang 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I do not see the difficulty in accepting this amendment because all that it is saying, from abundance of caution, is that let us list all the agencies that work at the borders, because the conflict will not exist; because they are working in most places anyway. And if you take the case that a police officer can also do the seizure, or a customs officer, there is no harm in adding “an Immigration officer” so that it becomes comprehensive.
    I do not think that is what is going to cause the friction because at all the border points, in most instances, we have all the three coexisting and they all are arms of the State. I do not see any difficulty at all. It will rather be a mistake to leave out the Immigration Service because then they are constrained; if they see anything wrong at the border they may not be able to handle it. So from abundance of caution let us accept this because then it becomes more comprehensive. This is a very harmless amendment to the Bill which I think we must let pass.
    Mr. A. K. Agbesi 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think that we should not only oppose this amendment, but we should also vote massively against it - [Laughter.] Mr. Speaker, money issues are serious issues. So when we are making the law, we should be specific as to which organ or body handles money, particularly at the borders. I agree with the statement that there will be serious conflict between these two organs. In order that we may not create a serious conflict situation we should give the duty of collection of money to the CEPS and not the Immigration Service. That is why I invite hon. Members to massively vote against this amendment.
    Mr. Kwame Osei-Prempeh 10:50 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I really do not understand the confusion being generated about this thing. It is not a question of anybody seizing money at the border. What the
    clause is saying is that, a court may give an order for anybody -- name it a warrant -- to undertake a search and that can include a police officer, a customs officer or an Immigration officer; it is the court looking at it and making the order. It is not that somebody comes to the border and it becomes an issue between the Immigration Service and CEPS as to who is receiving the money.
    So at the appropriate time the court will look at the circumstances and name somebody in the order to do that. Mr. Speaker, by adding an Immigration officer, we are just widening the scope for the court so that at any particular time the court could be clear as to what directive to give. I do not see the harm in this. Mr. Speaker, the way the argument is going, I am tempted to believe that some Colleagues have not read the section very well, and a good reading shows that it is harmless; just that on application to a court, the court may order a police officer who has something to do with border control, a CEPS officer or an Immigration officer to take a warrant for a search. Mr. Speaker, I believe there is nothing harmful about that.
    Mr. H. Iddrisu 11 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, having listened to the Deputy Attorney-General, I am sure we need your guidance. This time when these motions are moved we do not get any explanation to justify many of these propositions - [Laughter] --, In fact, that affects some of our positions. Mr. Speaker, with that I withdraw my objection and Mr. Speaker you can put the Question for us to make progress.
    Question put and amendment agreed to viz.
    Clause 23, subclause (4), line 3, after “Service” insert “or the Immigration
    Service” .
    Mr. Appiah-Ofori 11 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 23, subclause (4), line 3, delete “may” and substitute “shall”.
    Mr. Speaker, I want to read the clause -- “where there is a reasonable ground to suspect that a person has committed an offence under this Act, a police officer or an officer of the CEPS may seize . . .” Mr. Speaker, “may” is a discretionary provision. If you allow a customs officer and a police officer such discretionary opportunities, Mr. Speaker, if you do not take care nothing would be seized. There are some people who have the propensity to collect something and allow people to get away with their crimes. So Mr. Speaker, let us make it mandatory so that they would be compelled to seize the items — something which has offended the nation. So I want to invite everybody here, including the hon. Minority Leader, to support the amendment.
    Mr. Speaker 11 a.m.
    Chairman of the Committee, what do you say to that?
    Mr. Agyei-Addo 11 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I do not have any objection to his amendment because it only goes to actually reinforce what we are seeking to achieve.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr. Agyei-Addo 11 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 23, add a new subclause as follows:
    “In the instance where moneys are seized, the seizing authorities must deposit the money with the Bank of Ghana immediately.”
    Mr. Kwadwo Adjei-Darko 11 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, in furtherance to the contribution by the hon. Member I would want to, if the Committee Chairman would allow, propose that instead of “immediately”, it should be “within 48 hours” so that we take into account the weekends.
    Mr. Speaker 11 a.m.
    Chairman of the Committee, what do you say to that?
    Mr. Agyei-Addo 11 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, “within 48 hours if the 48 hours does not end on a weekend”.
    Alhaji Sumani Abukari 11 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I believe that somebody has interfered with the wording of this new subclause because I remember at the meeting we debated this at length and we took into consideration the possibilities of weekends, holidays, et cetera. Mr. Speaker, I think that we said “by the next working day”. I think we used “working day” instead of “immediately”; that is what we used at the committee meeting.
    So I do not know why they have deleted it and put “immediately” because it might be a non-working day, a holiday, it might be a weekend and in any case there might not be a Bank of Ghana branch near that post where it is confiscated; and we took all these into consideration. Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that we get more time to sit down with the draftsperson and rephrase this to take into consideration holidays, weekends and also areas where there are no banks.
    Mr. A. W. G. Abayateye 11 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, at the committee level I think we said “within 7 days”. Therefore, we continued by saying that —- the section 24, where the “one-month” was, we changed it to “7 days”. At the committee we took into consideration weekends and maybe holidays and we said “7 days”, and we suggested that it would go into section 24 by amendment —- the one month should be 7 days.
    Mr. Simon Osei-Mensah 11 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think 7 days is too long and I wish it should be “by close of business the next working day”. So assuming the money is taken even on Saturday the next working day will be Monday - by close of business on Monday, the person should have paid. So if it is taken on Monday, by close of business on Tuesday, the person should have lodged it into the account. Mr. Speaker, I think it should be “by close of business the next working day”.
    Mr. Bagbin 11 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think that we have to look at the practicality of the implementation of this section. If it is next working day and let us say, you collect money on Monday, it means, that on Tuesday you have to rush to the Bank of Ghana to save it; you collect money on Tuesday, you run on Wednesday to go and save it. You collect on Wednesday, you run on Thursday to go and save it. It will not be cost-effective.
    So it is important for us to give room for a number of the collections to be put together to allow just a single trip to go and make the deposit. So Mr. Speaker, I support the 7 days, “within 7days” so that during the course of the week, you can put all the collections together and then rush to go and deposit it with the Bank of Ghana. That will reduce the cost of implementation, and I think that is a better proposal.
    Mr. E. A. Agyepong 11:10 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think the right agreement we came to was what my hon. Friend from Tamale North said. We said “the next working day”.
    Again, we are not talking about paying to Bank of Ghana alone. If you pay into any banking account it will get to Bank of Ghana. Our experience has shown that if the money is accumulated the tendency for the people not to pay into Bank of Ghana account is very, very great. Therefore we said “by the next working day”. If it is collected on Friday and the bank has closed, one should wait until Monday; as soon as the bank opens the money should be paid in. Wherever one is, even at Elubo the money should be paid at the Ghana Commercial Bank and it will get to Bank of Ghana. This is what was agreed on at the committee meeting. So the amendment must be made to reflect the next working day.
    Mr. Hackman Owusu-Agyemang 11:10 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, what if the rendition is changed and we say “to a bank for the credit of Bank of Ghana” so that it would make it clear. Because as it is now, if it is left the way it is, it always would be that one would have to go to the Bank of Ghana.
    But as the hon. Member for Abetifi (Mr. E. A. Agyepong) said, it can be paid into a bank for the credit of - I think most of the border towns do have banks and in most cases they have rural banks so people can always pay into some of these banks. For the avoidance of doubt we could change the rendition and put it that way and I am sure it would cover all the concerns of the hon. Members in the operation of the law.
    Mr. Agyei-Addo 11:10 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, what we were seeking to achieve was a situation where money saved would be paid immediately, that is on the next working
    day to ensure that such moneys are not misappropriated or misapplied. So we believe that if we need to define what “immediately” means we must probably add it to the amendment that we are seeking to move so that “immediately” then becomes “the next working day”.
    Mr. Speaker 11:10 a.m.
    Chairman of the Committee, what is the need to have these words in the instance? Are they really necessary? Can you not start from “where moneys are seized”?
    Mr. Agyei-Addo 11:10 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, can we leave this to the draftspersons, but still to capture what we are seeking to achieve, say that moneys seized must be lodged into Bank of Ghana immediately, that is the next working day?
    Mr. Speaker 11:10 a.m.
    Hon. Members, I think I would want to defer this for further consideration. I think it is taking a lot of our time.
    Clause 23 as amended ordered to stand
    part of the Bill.
    Clause 24 - Notice.
    Mr. Agyei-Addo 11:10 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 24, subclause (3), line 5, delete “Republic” and substitute “State”
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr. Agyei-Addo 11:10 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 24, subclause (4), line 3, delete “ Bank” and substitute “State”.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 24 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clause 25 - Recovery or forfeiture.
    Mr. Appiah-Ofori 11:10 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg
    to move, clause 25, subclause (1), line 2, delete “may” and substitute “ shall”.
    Mr. Speaker, the reason is this -- I want to read the main clause to support my reason —
    “ Where proceedings for the recovery or forfeiture of property have been instituted in the Courts and Courts shall order the property to be forfeited to the State if the Court finds that the property was used in connection with the commission of an offence.”
    Mr. Speaker, it says if the court finds, that the property has been used to perpetrate a crime against the State then court should not be given a discretionary power to decide whether to forfeit the property or not. If it is satisfied that the property has been used to defraud the State then the court should be compelled to forfeit the property as a deterrent. So I want everybody to support this amendment.
    Mr. Agyei-Addo 11:10 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, we do not have a problem with this particular amendment.
    Mr. Kenneth Dzirasah 11:10 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the difficulty with the proposed amendment is that assuming the subject matter is a landed property in which many people have interest and it is only one person who uses the property to commit the offence, the court would have to have discretion to be able to determine whether it should be confiscated or not. In other words, the “shall” will close the doors to other options, which is not good in the circumstances. I suggest we retain it as it is.
    Mr. J. A. Ndebugre 11:10 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the concerns of my good hon. Friend here but one cannot have a compulsion to superimpose discretion. The court by the clause is already granted the discretion to decide for itself; by the word “if” the court has to determine
    Alhaji Inusah Fuseini 11:10 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I wish to support the hon. Member for Asikuma/Odoben/Brakwa (Mr. Appiah- Ofori) for saying that the provision is quite clear. It means that if the court makes a determination that the property has been used for an improper purpose then the discretion of the court is now removed and I think that that is what we should encourage; we should support that. We do not give the court the discretion further to determine whether to confiscate or not after it has made the determination that this property has been used for an illegal purpose in contravention of the Act.
    Mr. Speaker, I think the amendment is good, it would prevent people from using property that does not belong to them, knowing very well that they can still go to court and argue successfully that the property ought not to be forbidden.
    Mr. J. H. Mensah 11:20 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, if my hon. Colleagues could take note of the fact that clause 23 (1) applies to the fining of a court, but clause 23 (4) refers to the belief or suspicion held by an Immigration Officer or a Police Officer
    or a Customs Officer that an offence has been committed. There is no question of a court being involved in it. Mr. Speaker, in that case, clause 25 (2) - [Interruption] --Mr. Speaker, I noticed the omission under clause 23 and that was what I was going to address.
    Mr. Chireh 11:20 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I support, for the first time, the hon. Member for Asikuma/Odoben/Brakwa for using the word “shall”. And the arguments are very simple, that if you are giving the court a discretion to decide and when it decides that it has been improperly used — the “shall” — I agree with him. But to make it more comprehensive, I would like a further amendment to be added and that would be “. . . under this Act or any other enactmend . . . ” This is because any crime committed under any enactment qualifies for such a thing to be done. So if it is acceptable, I will support his amendment and propose that a further amendment be made.
    Mr. Mpiani 11:20 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I believe the court should be given the discretion. Mr. Speaker, supposing I have a house which I let out and somebody lives in the house and uses the property for an act which goes against what is in this Act, will it be really right for the Court to take this property away from me when I have no knowledge about what the person is doing in that property - [Interruptions.]
    Mr. Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Order!
    Mr. Mpiani 11:20 a.m.
    So, I believe the court should be given the disrection to determine, really. Maybe, the property is for the person who committed the offence, and to enable it decide whether he should forfeit the property to the State or not, I believe we should give the court the discretion to determine that.
    Mr. Bagbin 11:20 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think that I will also urge the House to support the view expressed by the hon. Member for South Tongu and supported by the hon. Minister for Presidential Affairs, that there are some instances where the person committing the offence might not be the sole owner or even the owner of the property that he used to commit the offence and therefore, the interest of other people should be taken into consideration. And the court should be given the discretion to decide whether it is appropriate to confiscate it to the State or in view of the other interest, to make other orders apart from confiscation to the State. So Mr. Speaker, I think we should allow the clause to stay as it is. This is because that will be rather in the interest of justice.
    Question put and amendment negatived.
    Mr. Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Hon. Members, we may wish to defer further discussion on this item.
    Order! Order! Item 5, Motions - Hon. Member for Finance and Economic Planning?
    MOTIONS 11:20 a.m.
    Minister for Finance and Economic Planning (Mr. Kwadwo Baah-Wiredu) 11:20 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that this honourable House approves the Financial Policy of the Government for the year ending 31st December 2007.
    Mr. Speaker, in doing so I wish to indicate that by the authority of His Excellence, the President, John Agyekum Kufuor, I have the honour to present the

    Mr. Speaker, I wish to indicate that I am reading out an abridged version of the Budget Statement and I implore the Hansard Department to capture the entire Statement comprising ten sections.

    Mr. Speaker, I wish to start with the Foreword of His Excellency, John Agyekum Kufuor, the President of the Republic of Ghana. Mr. Speaker, I quote the Foreword:
    PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF 11:20 a.m.
    GHANA ECONOMIC 11:20 a.m.
    RENAISSANCE 11:20 a.m.
    EXPLOIT OF BLACK STARS IN 11:20 a.m.
    GERMANY 11:20 a.m.
    ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENTS 11:20 a.m.
    AND OUTLOOK 11:20 a.m.
    DEVELOPMENTS AND OUTLOOK 11:20 a.m.
    IN THE WEST AFRICA 11:20 a.m.
    SUB-REGION 11:20 a.m.
    MACROECONOMIC 11:20 a.m.
    DEVELOPMENTS IN THE WAMZ 11:20 a.m.
    THE EXTENDED WAMZ 11:20 a.m.
    PROGRAMME 11:20 a.m.
    SECTION 11:20 a.m.
    DEVELOPMENTS IN PUBLIC 11:20 a.m.
    DEBT AND AID MANAGEMENT 11:20 a.m.
    - 11:20 a.m.
    ON-LENDING AND 11:20 a.m.
    GOVERNMENT-GUARANTEED 11:20 a.m.
    LOANS 11:20 a.m.
    - 11:20 a.m.
    A 11:20 a.m.
    P 11:20 a.m.
    C 11:20 a.m.
    Q 11:20 a.m.
    B 11:20 a.m.
    EXTERNAL SECTOR 11:20 a.m.
    DEVELOPMENTS 11:20 a.m.
    P 11:20 a.m.
    MACROECONOMIC 11:20 a.m.
    FRAMEWORK FOR THE 11:20 a.m.
    MEDIUM-TERM 11:20 a.m.
    - 11:20 a.m.
    RESOURCE MOBILISATION AND 11:20 a.m.
    PERFORMANCE AND OUTLOOK 11:20 a.m.
    PRIVATE SECTOR 11:20 a.m.
    COMPETITIVENESS 11:20 a.m.
    HUMAN RESOURCE 11:20 a.m.
    DEVELOPMENT 11:20 a.m.
    HIV 11:20 a.m.
    GOOD GOVERNANCE AND CIVIC 11:20 a.m.
    RESPONSIBILITY 11:20 a.m.
    TNC 11:20 a.m.
    MINISTRY OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC PLANNING 11:20 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Order! Order! Hon. Members, in accordance with our Standing Order 140(3) debate on this motion shall stand adjourned for not less than three days. I further direct that the Estimates relating to Ministries, Departments and Agencies (MDAs) stand committed respectively to the committees responsible for the subject-matter to which the heads of the estimates relate for consideration and report.
    Item 7 - Committee sittings.
    Majority Leader (Mr. F. K. Owusu- Adjapong) 11:20 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that this House do now adjourn till 10.00 o'clock tomorrow morning.
    Minority Leader (Mr. A. S. K. Bagbin) 11:20 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker - [Interruption.]
    Mr. Bagbin 11:20 a.m.
    After listening to the monotonous soliloquy of my colleague - [Interruptions.]
    Mr. Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Order! Order!
    Mr. Bagbin 11:20 a.m.
    I believe that we need to adjourn to go through the details of the real Budget because what we listened to is just the statement which usually is only a political rendition of the Budget. Mr. Speaker, I humbly second the motion.
    Question put and motion agreed to.
    ADJOURNMENT 11:20 a.m.