Debates of 2 Nov 2010

MADAM SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:25 a.m.
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Correction of Votes and Proceedings of Friday, 29th October,
2010.,

In the absence of any corrections, the Votes and Proceedings of Friday, 29th October, 2010 is adopted as the true record of proceedings.
Mr Frederick Opare-Ansah 10:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, we do not have copies of the Official Report for Thursday - [Interruptions.] I do not have a copy here and nobody on our front desk has a copy.
Madam Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Is it only you?
Mr Opare-Ansah 10:25 a.m.
Each and everyone of us here on my side of the House.
Madam Speaker 10:25 a.m.
The whole House -- 28th October?
Mr Cletus A. Avoka 10:25 a.m.
I have a copy. I do not know whether they are yet to check their pigeonholes or - I do not know.
Madam Speaker 10:25 a.m.
So apart from the Hon Minority Chief Whip, do you all have copies? Can we go on or postpone this? Because if you do not have copies we
cannot go on.
Mr Opare-Ansah 10:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I am not the only one; all of us here do not have copies. [Interruptions.] I do not have a copy; this is Wednesday, 27th -- we do not have the 28th.
Mr Avoka 10:25 a.m.
I think Hon Members have copies, maybe, except for other reasons, they are not available with them now but they have been distributed.
Madam Speaker 10:25 a.m.
I do not have 27th. I only have 28th.
Mr Opare-Ansah 10:25 a.m.
And I have Wednesday, 27 th . I do not have 28th; Madam Speaker does not have 28th either.
Madam Speaker 10:25 a.m.
I have 28th.
Mr Opare-Ansah 10:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, may I suggest we stand both down and do this tomorrow then?
Madam Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Clerk - [Pause.] In which case, let us suspend the correction of the Official Report because some of the Members do not have copies of the 28th. I do not have a copy of 27th; let us take them tomorrow when we all have copies.
Hon Members, in which case, we move on to Urgent Questions. Hon Members, the Question stands in the name of Hon Samuel Kwaku Obodai (Agona West).
URGENT QUESTIONS 10:25 a.m.
MINISTRY OF THE INTERIOR 10:25 a.m.
Minister for the Interior (Mr Martin Amidu) 10:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the aftermath of the June 20 flooding disaster, which affected the Agona West Municipality (Agona Swedru, Agona Nyakrom, Brakwa Esshien, Nkum, et cetera in the Central Region has seen several interventions being instituted to bring the deplorable situation under control.
Key among these interventions include the following:
a. establishment of safe havens for victims;
b. provision of relief assistance to victims; and
c. reconstruction of damaged infrastructure.
The National Disaster Management Organisation (NADMO) with additional financial support from the Agona West Municipal Assembly facilitated the clearing of debris at some of the devastated sites, notably, Zabon Zongo and Salem on the 5th of August, 2010. NADMO is awaiting the release of additional funds for the continuation of a planned major clean- up activity in the Agona West Municipal Assembly area.
On education, four (4) sensitization programmes were organized for flood victims by NADMO and its collaborating agencies to help the victims overcome the trauma in which they found themselves.
The devastated sites of the municipality were fumigated by Zoomlion and the Environmental Health Division of the Assembly to prevent the outbreak of epidemics.
Furthermore, Madam Speaker, NADMO identified an unauthorized structure belonging to the Grace Redeemer Church which was constructed in a water way at Bebianeha, a suburb of Swedru and also recommended its demolition to the Municipal Assembly. This is yet to be carried out.
Madam Speaker, NADMO assisted the Municipal Assembly to acquire sixteen (16) hectares of land for tree planting at Swedru and Abodom, a project which has given twenty-seven (27) people employment. Seedlings were supplied by the Forestry Department.
Madam Speaker, various quantities of relief items (food and non-food items) were received by the Municipal Assembly from NADMO and her social partners within this period. Some of these social partners include: Ghana Red Cross Society, Adventist Development Relief Agency ( ADRA), United States Agency for International Development (USAID), World Vision International, World Food Programme, Presbyterian Relief Agency, 31st December Women's Movement, Members of Parliament, FOX FM, Deeper Life Church, Harvest Church International, Catholic Secretariat, Catholic Relief Services, UNDP, OCHA, UNICEF, the Central Regional Co-ordinating Council and many others.
Other activities include the following:
The concrete bridge l inking the Agona Swedru town which collapsed during the peak of the flood has been rehabilitated and opened to the public. This will be tarred soon. The Ghana Educational Trust Fund (GETFund) is in the process of awarding a contract for the construction of a two (2) storeyed
Mr Obodai 10:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, may I know from the Hon Minister if he can explain why most of the relief items brought to the affected citizens of Swedru were given to only one community, that is, the Zongo community to the neglect of others? So can the Hon Minister explain why this was done?
Mr Amidu 10:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, NADMO distributed the relief items to the affected communities. I am not aware of any Zongo community benefiting alone.
Mr Obodai 10:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, to buttress my point, I think that the Hon Minister, in his submission, did indicate that about 120 people who are affected are now being kept in the town hall and the mosque and they are being managed by NADMO. So it looks as if their concentration is only on the Zongo community while the other affected communities are not benefiting from NADMO. So can he really explain to us why they are taking this action?
Mr Amidu 10:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I stated in my Answer that 120 IDPs were living at the town hall and the mosque. These are the internally displaced persons and as long as they continue to be internally displaced, NADMO would have to manage them. In the other villages, when the rain subsided and they had emergency relief, there was no need for them to be IDPs, so we would not have them continually managed. But at the peak of the floods -- at the stage of the emergency, all of them were given relief items. That is my answer.
Mr Obodai 10:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, from the Hon Minister's submission, I think that he admits that the problem is still with the people. He did indicate that even before they start construction, they will try to do some re-demarcation, especially in the Zabon Zongo area before the construction starts. But when they continue to delay some of these things, it will seriously destroy a lot of things. So I would appeal to him that, they fast track their action so that, at least, the people can get somewhere to lay their heads. And also -
Madam Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Let him react to that.
Mr Amidu 10:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, we have taken note of the fact that the people need to be rehabilitated and we shall do all we can to get them rehabilitated as soon as it is practicable.
rose
Madam Speaker 10:35 a.m.
You have had your three questions?
Mr Obodai 10:35 a.m.
I am left with the last one.
Madam Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Well, ask the last question. But I thought you used that period for the suggestion? Ask your last question.
Mr Obodai 10:35 a.m.
I wanted to find out from the Hon Minister if in the meantime, the other affected communities could be given tents and other things that can help them get somewhere to lay their heads.
Madam Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Hon Minister, are you going to give them tents?
Mr Amidu 10:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the other communities have not exhibited the need for tents; if they did, they would have been
given. But it is because the floods have subsided in those communities and they have gone back to their houses and that is why they are not calculated as internally displaced. So once they are not internally displaced, they do not have the need for tents.
Mr Charles S. Hodogbey 10:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I would like to know from the Hon Minister, whether he specifically got involved in the distribution of emergency materials to communities.
Mr Amidu 10:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I do not personally get involved in it; it is done by NADMO which is under my Ministry.
Mr David Oppong-Kusi 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, one of the worst affected areas in Swedru was the area used by sawmillers to produce lumber, which was very close to the waterway and was one of the contributing factors to the flooding. The Hon Minister speaks of future plans to relocate these people. As we speak, the squatters have started coming back. What plans have they put in place to ensure that before they are relocated, they do not come back and cause the same havoc again.
Mr Amidu 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, as I stated in my Answer, we are going to ensure that the Hydrological Service Department demarcates a zone around the river before anybody is given permit to build. And NADMO, together with the Municipal Assembly, will ensure that nobody has that permit. So, anybody putting up a structure, it will be an illegal structure and they will move as fast as possible to get it out of the place.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Only one question for you.
Yes, has any Hon Member any further questions?
Mr Oppon-Kusi 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I said that the squatters had already started
Mr Amidu 10:45 a.m.
If the squatters have started moving in, now that our attention has been called to it, I would ask NADMO to go there and make sure they are removed from the place.
Madam Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Hon Member, thank you.
Shall we move to the next Question, which stands in the name of Hon Ben Abdallah Banda (Offinso South)?
Mr Augustine Ntim 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Member for Offinso South is not in the House and has asked me to crave your indulgence to ask the Question on his behalf.
Madam Speaker 10:45 a.m.
All right - Yes, has he gone to Mecca?
Mr Ntim 10:45 a.m.
No, Madam Speaker. He is in the constituency attending to some other pressing needs.
Madam Speaker 10:45 a.m.
All right.
Mr Ntim 10:45 a.m.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
ORAL ANSWERS TO 10:45 a.m.
QUESTIONS 10:45 a.m.
MINISTRY OF THE INTERIOR 10:45 a.m.
Minister for the Interior (Mr Martin Amidu) 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, Government approved and provided funds for the
completion of 38 outstanding office and residential accommodation projects for the Ghana Police Service in the 2010 Budget. The building of residential accommodation for police personnel in the Offinso South Municipality is not one of these projects.
The Police Administration will wish to solve the issue of accommodation in the Offinso South Municipality in 2011, but this will be contingent upon budgetary approval for such a project in the 2011 Budget by Government and this august House. This is because the provision of accommodation for the Ghana Police Service is contingent upon availability of resources from the Budget to the Police Administration to undertake them.
The Offinso South Municipality is expected to benefit from the Suppliers Credit Financing Agreement between the Government of Ghana and STX Engineering and Construction Ghana Limited approved by Parliament when the project to provide accommodation to the security services is implemented.
Madam Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member, you may ask three supplementary questions.
Mr Ntim 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister has given an indication that the Offinso South Municipality police accommodation problem is going to be addressed under the Suppliers Credit Financing Agreement between the Government of Ghana and STX Engineering Construction Limited.
Madam Speaker, I am reliably informed, and indeed the good people of Offinso are also in the know that as we speak today, the STX deal is not yet signed. How sure is the Hon Minister that the accommodation problem faced by police personnel in Offinso is going to be addressed under that package?
Mr Amidu 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I have said that it is expected that Offinso will benefit when the project is implemented.
Madam Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member, your next supplementary question.
Mr Ntim 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I have carefully read the STX Agreement and I am sufficiently informed that the accommodation project is going to start at the regional capitals. So, how sure is the Hon Minister that the accommodation problem in Offinso Municipality is also going to be addressed under that package?
Mr Amidu 10:45 a.m.
My answer is that, the expectation is that Offinso Municipal Assembly will have this project under the STX project when it is implemented.
Madam Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Hon Member, your next supplementary question.
Mr Ntim 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, may I find out from the Hon Minister - the 2011 Budget is going to be read in the next few days. Will he deem it fit to consider the accommodation problem of Offinso Municipality as a priority under the 2011 Budget?
Mr Amidu 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, as the Hon Minister for the Interior, I would wish to build as many police stations as possible. As I said, we are budgeting for it. We just hope that it will be in the Budget and when it comes to this House, it will be approved and then we shall go ahead and build it. Once the funds are available, the Ministry will definitely build it. But it is contingent upon approval of that Budget by Government and this august House.
Mr Isaac K. Asiamah 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in the Hon Minister's Answer, he said government approved and provided
funds for the completion of 38 ongoing office and residential accommodation projects for the Ghana Police Service in the 2010 Budget.
Madam Speaker, I want to find out from the Hon Minister, what is the state of these ongoing projects. Are they at the foundation level, lintel level or what stage have all these 38 projects got to? I ask this because we are in November 2010 and the Budget cycle has almost ended. So, I want to find out about their levels of completion.
Mr Amidu 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the projects are at various levels of completion. Indeed, since this Question does not specifically relate to the Question I am answering, I did not bring the other facts.
rose
Madam Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Hon Asiamah, one question only.
Any other Hon Member wants to put a question?
Mr Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister, in the second paragraph of his Answer, informs us that the Offinso Municipality is expected to benefit from the Suppliers Credit Financing Agreement between the Government of Ghana and STX Engineering Construction Limited approved by Parliament, when the project to provide accommodation to the security services is implemented.
Madam Speaker, may I know from the Hon Minister, how many housing units are expected to be built for the security personnel at Offinso.
Mr Amidu 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I do not have the answer immediately. The Police Administration would decide. But they have assured me that the Offinso Municipality will benefit if the project is to be implemented.
Madam Speaker 10:55 a.m.
Any other question? [Pause.]
Can we move on to the next Question, then?

Fire Station in the Amansie West Constituency

(Provision)

Q.519. Ms Grace Addo asked the Minister for the Interior when the Amansie West Constituency in the Ashanti Region would be provided with a fire station.
Mr Martin Amidu 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Ghana National Fire Service (GNFS) is in collaboration with various District Assemblies to provide offices and residential accommodation for the establishment of new fire stations
The Amansie West District Assembly expressed the desire to have a fire station and was therefore, advised by the Ghana National Fire Service to provide office and residential accommodation while the Service provides the personnel and fire equipment for the station. The provision of a fire station in the Amansie West Constituency will therefore, depend on the ability of the District Assembly to provide the necessary infrastructure.
Ms Addo 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister stated in his Answer that the Amansie West Constituency can only have fire station provided the District Assembly would be able to put up infrastructure. Will he tell me how sure he is that the District Assembly would be able to
Ms Addo 10:55 a.m.


provide the infrastructure in view of the current unreliable flow of the District Assemblies Common Fund?
Mr Amidu 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, this is a discussion agreed between the Ghana National Fire Service and the District Assembly and I suppose that the District Assembly is capable, that is why they have undertaken to provide that and the personnel would be provided. It is not contingent on the District Assemblies Common Fund
Several Hon Members - rose -
Madam Speaker 10:55 a.m.
Have you finished, Hon Addo?
Ms Addo 10:55 a.m.
No, Madam Speaker.
M a d a m S p e a k e r : S e c o n d supplementary question, then.
Ms Addo 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my question is, will the Hon Minister also tell us, apart from the collaboration between the District Assembly and the GNFS, if there are other measures that he can also put in place to assist Amansie West to have a fire station to save life and property?
Mr Amidu 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, as of now, there are so many areas which would also require fire stations. But because of lack of funds, the District Assemblies agree, where it is pressing, to provide the infrastructure. What we do is that , the nearest district fire stations will always overlook the nearest place to them. So until we have fire station infrastructure, it is going to be difficult for us to provide the personnel because of the difficulty of getting the funds to do that.
Ms Addo 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister is saying that we have to rely on the nearest fire stations. But Madam
Speaker, let me tell the Hon Minister that Amansie West is far away from the nearest fire station; that would be Kumasi. So I am pleading that he should consider us as one of the priority areas and when funds are available,
Mr Amidu 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, as soon as the GNFS has sufficient funds to provide fire stations to districts, I would be the first to commence putting them in place because it is essential; the problem we have is that the economy cannot bear the cost right now.
Mr Asamoah Ofosu 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I want to know from the Hon Minister the statistics of fire disasters recorded in Amansie West over the past five years. -
Madam Speaker 10:55 a.m.
Hon Member, there is no notice for this question. He needs notice to furnish you with particulars. This Question does not permit you to ask such a question. You have not given him notice of fire disaster, so how do you expect him to know?
Mr Ofosu 10:55 a.m.
Yes, Madam Speaker, I am asking this question against the fact that the Hon Minister has said that they do not have funds -- they have agreed with the District Assemblies -- And Madam Speaker, I do not know, but if it is just an understanding, because the Judicial Service are relying on the District Assemblies to provide courts.
Madam Speaker, if you come to Kade, for example, we have a fire service station. But for the past 13 years, Madam Speaker -- and four Questions have gone to the Ministry already -- there is no fire tender. I do not know whether they are expected to use buckets or other things to quench
fire. And the last time there was fire, the nearest fire station was at Oda. It takes about 45 minutes to travel from Oda to Kade. But in the case of Amansie West, the nearest fire station is in Kumasi and it takes two and a half hours to travel from Kumasi to Amansie West.
So if they are to rely on the nearest fire station, and for every fire that must be quenched, they need a minimum of two and a half hours travelling time, then Madam Speaker -- and he still does not deem it necessary, but wants to go into understanding with another Ministry to provide funds and facilities as and when they are available.
Madam Speaker, I have a letter from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning dated the 16th of June, informing me, the Minister for the Eastern Region and the District Chief Executive that funds had been released from the Highly Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Funds to the National Investment Bank (NIB) and credited to our accounts.
Today is the 2nd of November; I was at the Ministry yesterday - Finance - I was directed to see the Chief Cashier of the Controller and Accountant-General and later further move to Public Debts and Investments (PDI) and I am told that I should go to Bank of Ghana and that the accounts had not been credited.
So even when we have received letters as far back as 16th June that a particular account of the Assembly has been credited, the supposed Assembly which is expected to be building fire stations for them -- 16th June -- today it has not been credited and the Member of Parliament (MP) would have to move from Ministry to Controller and Accountant-General, to Bank of Ghana, and be checking out whether letters were dispatched. When will he get the fire station?
Madam Speaker 10:55 a.m.
Is this his responsibility?
Mr Ofosu 10:55 a.m.
Yes, I want him to answer.
Madam Speaker 10:55 a.m.
Yes, ask a question. The background is well received - [Laughter.]
Mr Ofosu 10:55 a.m.
So that Madam Speaker, I want to know from the Hon Minister, that as a Ministry, they have a budget, just as the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development. Why is he pushing his burden to the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development to provide infrastructural facilities for the Ghana National Fire Service and whether if that is provided, his Ministry would be able to provide the fire tenders and the other supporting equipment for the quenching of fires when they arise?
Mr Amidu 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I share the concerns of the Hon Member of Parliament for Kade, Mr Ofosu, and I wish to assure him that it is just that the economy cannot contain us having to open a fire station at Amansie West now and that the moment my Ministry has the money, it would do so. There is no Minister for the Interior, past or present, who would have refused to give Amansie West a fire station if money were available and we have to accept that collectively. We should put our heads together and find how we can get money for these important places.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Dr Francis B. Dakura 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I happened, to have had the opportunity to visit Amansie West District. Madam Speaker, I was very, very shocked to see the deplorable state of the roads in Amansie West and also villages and communities were very far between each other. Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from my Hon Friend, the Minister for
the Interior, whether the District Assembly is in partnership with the Ministry of the Interior to provide a fire station.
This is because in Jirapa District, we had the same problem and the District Assembly was the one that had to spearhead the issue of getting a fire station. Is my Hon Friend aware that the District Assembly can actually support the Ministry of the Interior to provide a fire station for Amansie West District?
Mr Amidu 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my Ministry has not got any specific agreement with the Amansie West District. This is an arrangement which was made between the GNFS and the Amansie West District because of the desire of the district to be fast tracked with GNFS ersonnel. So, they agreed that they will provide the personnel as soon as the infrastructure is provided. My Ministry can only resource the GNFS when the provision is made in the Budget.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Kwabena Okyere Darko-
Mensah: Madam Speaker, from the Answer that was given, it seems that the GNFS has been advising the District Assemblies to provide accommodation and they will provide the resources. I would like to know from the Hon Minister that in the situation we are in Ghana now, where even a fire station as close as the GNFS Headquarters and Ridge can take five minutes and houses are burnt down. I would like to know from him whether there is any strategy in place by the Ministry to put fire stations in all the districts of this country.
Mr Amidu 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, there is
a long-term plan to have fire stations in all appropriate places which need one; but that is a long-time plan. The immediate
Mr Amidu 11:05 a.m.


plan is, indeed, to be able to give tenders and equipment to the existing ones so that they can be more effective and then we can open up more fire stations when that is completed.

Some Hon Member rose—
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
There is a complaint
that people must be given the opportunity to put questions, so let us not waste time. You have asked your question.
Mr Frederick Opare-Ansah 11:05 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, I would like to know from the Hon Minister if it is the responsibility of the Ministry to provide fire stations to all districts in the country or does the Ministry respond to request based on indication by a district that it needs a fire station? Is it the responsibility that the Ministry must provide fire stations to every district in the country or when a district expresses the desire, then the Ministry considers it?
Mr Amidu 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the responsibility of the Ministry is to locate fire stations at strategic places; and that is what the Ministry does. If we have to move beyond that, areas which want fire stations will have to assist us to open them. I say “strategic places” because the economy does not allow the Ministry to provide fire stations in each district. I do not think any government would have refused to have provided them all over the districts. The Ministry acts within constraints of the economy, so we have to choose strategic places. Any areas outside that, if the people will help, the Ministry will get the personnel there.
Mr Charles S. Hodogbey 11:05 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, I would like to know from the Hon Minister, is construction of fire stations driven by demand or request.
Mr Amidu 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the construction of fire stations is driven by the ability to construct fire stations and that means national resources.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:05 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, the Hon Minister has alluded to the fact that if the Ministry had enough resources, they would wish to construct fire stations in all districts. But they are constrained to do strategic siting or strategic location because of the unavailability of funds or sufficient funds. I would want to know from him in this enterprise of strategic location, what factors inform the location? Is it the need factor or the desire factor.
Mr Amidu 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, specific
to Amansie West District, the situation we have is that the Ministry is unable to provide the funds to build a station there Amansie West has entered into an agreement with the GNFS, so if the facilities are provided, we will provide the personnel. Within the national context, if the Hon Member wants an answer to that question, he could give me a Question which is general, I will come back and answer it in totality.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, with respect to the -
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
Hon Member, last
question. This time there is a complaint that more people want to come in.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:05 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, I agree except that this is an exercise in serious prevarication. I asked a simple question. He has told us that because of the unavailability of sufficient resources, they do strategic location of fire stations. And I am asking him whether in pursuit of that strategy, they are informed by need or desire. That is the simple question that I asked.
Mr Amidu 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, we are informed by both and availability of funds.
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
We have two more
Questions, we have only one hour for Question time. Yes, last Question, so we finish all the Questions.
Shall we move on to Question 520 from Mr Augustine Collins Ntim (Offinso North)?
Asuosu and Afrancho Police Stations (Provision)
520. Mr Augustine Collins Ntim asked the Minister for the Interior what measures were being put in place by the Ministry to provide Asuosu and Afrancho communities in the Offinso North District with police stations.
Mr Martin Amidu 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, Government approved and provided funds for the completion of 38 ongoing office and residential accommodation projects for the Ghana Police Service in the 2010 Budget. The provision of police stations in the Asuosu and Afrancho communities in the Offinso North District is not one of these projects. Much as the Police Administration will wish to target the provision of police stations for these communities in 2011, this will be contingent upon budgetary approval for such projects in the 2011 Budget by Government and this august House. This is because the opening of new police stations and police district offices are contingent upon availability of resources from the Budget to the Police Administration to undertake them.
T h e P o l i c e A d m i n i s t r a t i o n has therefore, adopted the policy of encouraging communities and District Security Committees of MMDAs, which consider the urgent establishment of police stations as essential to maintaining the security of the district, to assist in the provision of the necessary office and residential infrastructure. This will enable
the Police Administration provide police services to those stations and districts.
The Asuosu and Afrancho communities will therefore, be provided with police stations when there is budgetary allocation for such projects or when the District Security Committee of the Offinso North District Assembly considers that the provision of police services to the communities is so urgent, should provide the necessary office and residential infrastructure to enable the provision of such services by the Police Administration.
Mr Ntim 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon
Minister, in the last paragraph, has given an indication that Asuosu and Afrancho communities would be provided with police stations when there is budgetary allocations for such projects. Can he tell how soon the Ministry would make budgetary provision for such projects and whether they have been captured under their strategic framework?
Mr Amidu 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the
Ministry will make these stations available to these communities when we have funds as stated. Without funds, we cannot capture them and our strategic plan indicates that we provide police stations at almost all strategic areas and these areas are strategic areas.
Mr Ntim 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in the
Hon Minister's earlier Answer to the Question posed under the Offinso South Municipality, he alluded to the fact that it is going to be catered for under the STX. May I find out from him whether same would be extended to Offinso South District?
Mr Amidu 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the
Police Administration has not targeted

these communities for STX projects.
Madam Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Yes, your last
question.
Mr Ntim 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, may I find out from the Hon Minister whether the Ministry has a broad strategic framework of providing police stations countrywide at strategic locations to address the current state of insecurity arising from armed robbery, highway robbery and all that?
Mr Amidu 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, there is no plan to provide nationwide security in terms of what he is saying -- [Interruption.]
Madam Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Order, order!
Mr Amidu 11:15 a.m.
There is no nationwide
plan to just go building police stations because there will be no funds to do so.
Madam Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Hon Minister,
the question also said, what are plans to contain armed robbery and other crimes? It is not only building police stations.
Mr Amidu 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the plans
to contain armed robbery is that, the police are doing patrols within their means and that is why statistically, armed robbery has reduced. Unfortunately, the few which occurred, are of a fatal nature and therefore, are the ones which are picked up by the police. But there are also challenges faced and if this Honourable House gives the police the necessary resources, I am sure we can nib armed robbery in the bud. I think at the appropriate time, I can answer and give him details.
Prof. (Emeritus) Samuel K. Amoako 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in the Hon Minister's Answer to the Question on Offinso South and Offinso North, he mentioned the 38 projects being undertaken, some are outstanding and others ongoing. May
I know from him the breakdown on regional basis -- regional breakdown of the distribution of these projects and what consideration was factored into the decision-making?
Mr Amidu 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I said
that 38 houses had been approved in the Budget and the Offinso South was not one of them. I do not have the figures for the breakdown because the Question did not relate to it. So if the Hon Member wants it and he asks the appropriate Question, we shall come and supply them.
Prof. (Emeritus) Amoako 11:15 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, I did not ask about Offinso South or Offinso North. What I asked was the regional breakdown.
Madam Speaker 11:15 a.m.
And he said he
did not have the particulars because you did not ask for it. You do not expect him to have all these -- but if you ask the question -- he says he will be prepared to come and give you the particulars.
Mr I. K. Asiamah 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, did I hear that the Ministry did not have strategic plans to provide office accommodation for the Ghana Police Service? Is that what the Minister is telling Ghanaians?
Madam Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Ask your question,
please. Do not add these things.
Mr I. K. Asiamah 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, does the Ministry of the Interior have strategic plans to provide office accommodation for the Police Service?
Mr Amidu 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, there
is a strategic document which was adopted not long ago by the Ghana Police Administration.
Madam Speaker 11:15 a.m.
He says “yes, there
is a strategic document.”
Mr I. K. Asiamah 11:15 a.m.
Is that document
different from a plan? Is the strategic document different from a plan? I want to find out from him.
Madam Speaker, a strategic document and a plan, what is the difference?
Mr Amidu 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I was
speaking in relation to a question and I said we did not have the plan but if you are talking generally, I am saying that there is a strategic plan which was adopted recently. So it depends on the question. My final answer was relating to a specific question.
Mr Hennric D. Yeboah 11:15 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, since he cannot build a complete police station at Asuosu and Afrancho, will he please help the Hon Member of Parliament for the area to put up a police post at Asuosu and Afrancho?
Mr Amidu 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I am not in a position to undertake the building of a police post at the two communities now because I do not have the resources to do so.
Madam Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Was that a question
or suggestion?
Mr Yeboah 11:15 a.m.
Suggestion. Police post;
you can even use a container. They do it -- [Interruptions] - on Spintex road. They have one on the Spintex road.
Madam Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Then suggest
it to him. Hon Minister, I think it is a suggestion. Can you put a container there?
Mr Amidu 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, we
cannot do it now.
Madam Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Any other question? We have one last question. Time is against us but let us go on.
The last Question is in the name of Hon Alfred Agbesi.
Avoidance of Recurrence of Death -- Ashiaman District Police Cell
Q.521.Mr Alfred Kwame Agbesi asked the Minister for the Interior what immediate practical measures the Ministry had put in place to avoid the recurrence of death in the over-crowded Ashaiman District Police cell, which was constructed to accommodate not more than twelve (12) inmates at a time.
Mr Martin Amidu 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, with specific reference to the Ashaiman incident, the Police Administration immediately decongested and increased the ventilation for the cell. The Police Administration also contracted a construction firm to expand the size of the cell by constructing a new adjoining structure to be joined to the existing cell to give more space and create hygienic conditions for the inmates. Work is currently ongoing with windows and doors being fixed on the ground floor.
Among other measures put in place to prevent such an unfortunate incident are the following:
A medical team from the Police Hospital, Accra has since been paying periodic visits to the cell and other cells to check on the health conditions of inmates.
Inspection teams have been formed to pay regular visits to police cells to ensure that they are not over- crowded.
Directives have been issued to Police Commanders not to detain suspects involved in offences that are easily bailable or suspects involved in minor offences.
Mr Agbesi 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in September, 2008, there was an incident where the police and the commercial drivers had a clash. The Ministry set up a committee and the report of the committee indicated that the District Police Station should be swapped with the Divisional Police Station.
I want to know from the Hon Minister what steps are being taken to implement the decision of the committee?
Mr Amidu 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I do not get the question. He said the District Police Station was to be swapped with another police station --
Madam Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Can you ask the question again?
Mr Agbesi 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the question is that there was an incident between the police and the commercial drivers. A committee was set up by the Ministry of the Interior. The finding of the committee was that, the District Police Station should be relocated to where the Divisional Police Station was. I want to know from the Hon Minister, what steps are being taken to implement the suggestion or recommendation of the committee.
Mr Amidu 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I remember a committee was set up but I am not in a position right now to say the extent of implementation of that report because I did not consider that the matter would arise under this question.
I thank you Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Yes, your next question.
Mr Agbesi 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, according to the Hon Minister, there is a directive to

the Police Command that offences which are bailable, people should not be detained under those offences, and that bail should be granted. I want to know from him whether there is any machinery to check on this at the police stations to see whether that directive is being implemented. I ask that because people are detained under offences which are bailable and yet that directive is there and this thing continues to happen.
Mr Amidu 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Police Administration has a task force which regularly visits these stations to make sure that people who commit minor offences do not stay long. So as far as my information is concerned, the task force regularly goes about doing this.
Madam Speaker 11:25 a.m.
I think the question is that -
Mr Amidu 11:25 a.m.
There is a task force formed by the Police Administration which goes round the police stations making sure that cells are not overcrowded, and that people who have committed minor offences are not kept there. My information is that these task forces are doing their work, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Your last question, please.
Mr Agbesi 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I want to know from the Hon Minister, in the report of the committee I referred to - Honyenuga Committee, they referred to the abandoned police structures that have been in existence since 1974, 36 years now. The recommendation was that the Police Administration should take steps to bring these structures up for accommodation and police cells for the inmates. I want to know from the Hon Minister what is being done in that direction.
Mr Amidu 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, as I said, my attention was concentrated on
answering the questions on what is being done to the cells. That is what I remember now. If he wants any issues arising from the committee's report, I can provide them later.
Mr Hodogbey 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in the Hon Minister's Answer, he said he had given orders to his Commanders to grant bail to suspects for offences which are easily bailable. Even murder cases which are criminal offences, are bailable. Can he tell us those offences which are easily bailable, so that we know, if the Ghana Police Service is going wrong, they can be checked?
Madam Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Is there a basis for the question? You say murder is easily bailable -
Mr Hodogbey 11:25 a.m.
Yes, Madam Speaker, the basis for my question is that there are some Muslim communities in my area, when they are travelling from Juapong, through Asikuma, the police detain them just for the reason that they are Muslim dressed. So I am asking the Hon Minister to tell me which offences are easily bailable because murder cases are also bailable.
Madam Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Hon Minister, can you help us; Have you got the question?
Mr Amidu 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my answer is that, minor offences are easily bailable and the police know what minor offences are in the Criminal Code. They are offences like assault and petty offences, which you do not need to keep somebody overnight. The temptation that the fellow would run away and not come back is not very apparent. They are just minor offences, Madam Speaker.
Mr Justice J. Appiah 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in the Hon Minister's Answer, he said.
“The Police Administration also contracted a construction firm to expand the size of the cells by constructing a new adjoining structure to be joined to the existing cells to give more space and create hygienic conditions for the inmates.”
Madam Speaker, precisely, what date would the Police Administration work on these projects?
Mr Amidu 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I indicated in my Answer that the project was on-going and that it had reached the window stage at the ground floor.
Mr Appiah 11:25 a.m.
Precisely, I want to know the date because this phrase “ongoing”, “ongoing”, “what would be the specific date?
Madam Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Date for what?
Mr Appiah 11:25 a.m.
The date they would start working on these projects. But ongoing, ongoing; what is the specific date? The Hon Minister should tell the House.
Madam Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Date or time?
Mr Appiah 11:25 a.m.
Yes, the date and time, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Anyway, Hon Minister, he wants the date and time; can you provide that? When will it be finished?
Mr Amidu 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, we started this project when the problem happened at Ashaiman - to construct it. And it is ongoing. I cannot give you specific dates either of today's ongoing or when it would be finished.
Prof. (Emeritus) Amoako 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, on the account of the Answer given by the Hon Minister, I want to ask a specific question. That is his directives to his commanders. Why is it that Amina Mohammed was not released in 48 hours?
[Interruption.] And would he consider her offence a bailable offence or not?
Madam Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Well, you are the Hon Minister, answer the question if you have the answer -
Prof. (Emeritus) Amoako 11:25 a.m.
I want to know.
Madam Speaker 11:25 a.m.
But I thought you should lay the foundation, that is it a bailable offence? If you ask that question, then you could follow up with, why was she not bailed?
Prof. (Emeritus) Amoako 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I prefaced it by saying that the measures that have been taken including bullet number 3 -
“Directives have been issued to Police Commanders not to detain suspects involved in offences that are easily bailable or suspects involved in minor offences.”
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
Let us hear the answer from the Hon Minister. The question flows from your Answer that --
Mr Amidu 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, Amina Mohammed was never detained at Ashaiman Police Station as the Hon Member who asked the question chose to find out.
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
Order! Let us hear.
Mr Amidu 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the police gave Amina Mohammed conditions for bail, which she has not been able to meet. [Interruptions.]

I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Prof. (Emeritus) Amoako 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my question has not been fully answered. There was a second part to the question.
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
Hon Member, I think it has been answered.
Prof. (Emeritus) Amoako 11:35 a.m.
Is her offence a bailable offence or not?
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
Hon Members, one hour has passed and Question time is over.
Thank you, Hon Minister for coming to answer our Questions.
Hon Leader, I have received communication, so I think I will read it before we go on - Communication from the President.
Hon Members, shall I read it? It is addressed to the Hon Speaker.
ANNOUNCEMENTS 11:35 a.m.
THE HON SPEAKER 11:35 a.m.
OFFICE OF PARLIAMENT, 11:35 a.m.
PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC 11:35 a.m.
OF GHANA 11:35 a.m.
Mr Avoka 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, unfortunately, the Hon Minister for Tourism is not available this morning. With your indulgence and that of my Hon Colleague, the Hon Minority Leader of this House, I would want the Hon Minister for Youth and Sports to lay that Paper on behalf of the Hon Minister for Tourism.
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
Yes, Hon Minister, can you lay it?
BILLS -- FIRST READING 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
Item 7 then, Laying of Papers.
Mr Avoka 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, unfortunately, the Hon Minister for Chieftaincy and Culture is outside Accra in the Brong Ahafo Region doing some other works. I would be grateful, with your kind permission, if the Hon Minister for Local Government and Rural Development is permitted to lay these Papers on behalf of the Hon Minister for Chieftaincy and Culture.
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member, Laying of Papers.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, ordinarily, I do not have anything against it but clearly, I have no inkling about the import of this, for which reason, if it could be explained to me. What is the import of these Instruments? And then maybe, it could be done. But in essence, I do not have anything against it.
Mr Joseph Y. Chireh 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, he wants explanation as to the Legislative Instruments (L.Is.).
The National House of Chiefs through its research committee, has been trying to get the lineages, the royal families or palaces or gates system systematised. These Instruments are the ones that are completed and when they are laid as per the Chieftaincy Act we passed here, they would be the ones which delineate who is to be a chief or otherwise. So that is the import of the Instruments.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:35 a.m.
Very well.
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
So can they be laid now?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:35 a.m.
Very well,
Madam Speaker.
PAPERS 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
Yes, Hon First Deputy Speaker, you will take the Chair.
Yes, are we moving on?
Mr Avoka 11:35 a.m.
Yes, Madam Speaker.
We will take Motion number 8 by the Hon Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee.
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
The Chair will be taken by the First Deputy Speaker.
11.44 a.m. -- MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:35 a.m.
Hon Majority Leader, have you resolved the issue with regard to item 8 on the Order Paper?
Mr Avoka 11:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, item 8 is deferred until tomorrow. We still need some further consultation on the matter.
Thank you.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:45 a.m.
That goes with item 9, which is consequential resolution.
Mr Avoka 11:45 a.m.
So we will now go to item 10, that is the Motion by the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee.
Chairman of the Committee (Mr Albert Kan-Dapaah) 11:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that this Honourable House adopts the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Report of the Auditor- General on the Public Accounts of Ghana (Consolidated Fund) for the year ended 31st December, 2007.
1.0 Introduction
The Report of the Auditor-General on the public accounts of Ghana for the year ended 31st December, 2007 (Consolidated Fund) was laid before the House on 29th June, 2009.
This Report was prepared in accordance with article 187 of the 1992 Constitution of the Republic of Ghana which mandates the Auditor-General to audit the public accounts of Ghana and of all public offices, institutions, and organisations established by an Act of Parliament and submit his report to Parliament.
This Report was referred to the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) for examination and report pursuant to Order 165 (2) of the Standing Orders of the Parliament of Ghana.
To consider the Report, the Committee met with the Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning, Hon Seth Terkpeh, the Controller and Accountant- General, Mr R. K. Tuffuor, the acting Auditor-General, Mr Richard Quartey and the technical team from the Ghana Audit Service and the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning and report as follows:

2.0 Reference

Your Committee was guided in its deliberations by the following legal Instruments:

i. The 1992 Constitution of the Republic of Ghana

ii. The Standing Orders of the Parliament of Ghana

iii. The Financial Administration Act, 2003 (Act 654)

iv. The Public Procurement Act 2003 (Act 663)

v. The Audit Service Act, 2000 (Act

584)

vi. The Internal Audit Agency Act,

2000

vii. The Financial Administration Regulations, 2004 (L.I. 1802).

3.0 Reasons for the Audit

The Controller and Accountant- General (CAG) is mandated under sections 41 (1b) and (2) as well as 44 (1) of the Financial Administration Act (FAA), 2003 (Act 654), to prepare and submit to the Auditor-General for examination, the annual financial statements on the public accounts of Ghana. The financial statements comprise the following:

Statement of Assets and Liabilities (Balance Sheet)

S ta t emen t o f Revenue and Expenditure

Statement of Receipts and Payments

Cash Flow Statement

Notes to the accounts

Funct ional c lass i f icat ion of expenditure by Items and Heads

Summary of expenditure by Heads and Items; and Analyses of the position of public debts, grants, and public loans funded from the Consolidated Fund, deposits, advances, equity investments, and HIPC funds.

Section 15 of the Audit Service Act, 2000 (Act 584) requires that the Auditor- General on receipt of the accounts, examines and certifies whether in his opinion, the statements present fairly, the financial information on the accounts of Ghana and whether the statements were prepared in accordance with accounting policies of Government, as well as generally accepted accounting principles.

The audit was conducted in compliance with this legal requirement.

4.0 Summary of Financial Statements on the Public Accounts of Ghana for the year ended 31st December 2007

4.1 Revenue and Expenditure

4.2.0 Revenue Performance

The main sources of revenue for the year were receipts from grants, taxes on international trade, non-tax revenue, HIPC

assistance receipts, direct taxes, indirect taxes and Multi-Donor Relief Initiative

(MDRI).

Total revenue for 2007 amounted to GH¢3,329.81 million against the budgeted revenue of GH¢4,774.02 million. The out -turn for 2007 is 29.62 per cent lower than budgeted. The actual for 2006 was GH¢3,084.19 million. Table 1 shows the breakdown of revenue:

Table 1

4.2.1 Direct Tax

Actual tax collected for the period amounted to GH¢901.50 million as against a projection of GH¢887.67 million. This is 1.56 per cent higher than 2007 projections. The 2006 actual was GH¢718.31 million.

4.2.2 Indirect Tax

This consists of sales tax, excise duty and petroleum tax and yielded GH¢458.06 million as against a projected figure of GH¢1,412.46 million. The actual tax represents a negative variance of 67.6 per cent of the budgeted figure for 2007, and 10.3 per cent higher than the previous year's actual of GH¢415.15 million.

4.2.3 Value Added Tax

Value Added Tax (VAT) collection for the period was GH¢909.94 million as against the budgeted figure of GH¢865.42 million. This represents a positive variance of 5.14 per cent compared with the budgeted figure and an increase of 35.86 per cent over 2006 actual figures. This figure excludes GETFund.

4.2.4 Tax on International Trade
Chairman of the Committee (Mr Albert Kan-Dapaah) 11:45 a.m.
The actual expenditure includes additional investment expenditure of GH¢13.45 million which has been classified under contingencies.
4.3.5 Public Debt Interest
Interest on public debt amounted to GH¢517.06 million. This was 41.7 per cent higher than the budgeted figure of GH ¢364.8 million and 13.04 per cent of total expenditure. It is also 24.39 per cent higher than the previous year's figure of GH¢415.68 million.
4.3.6 Others
Actual for the year was GH¢525.28 million. This gave rise to a favourable variance of GH¢119.98 million when compared to the budgeted figure of GH¢645.26 million. This includes expenditure on the rehabilitation of the national stadium, school feeding programme, electrification projects and payments to Tema Oil Refinery and Volta River Authority.
4.4 Balance Sheet items (Assets and Liabilities)
4.4.1 Assets
The Assets in the Balance Sheet are summarized as follows: 4.4.1.2. Cash and Bank Balances
This represents balances on all bank accounts maintained as part of the Consolidated Fund.
11.45 A.M. P.7 TABLE 3

4.4.1.3 Advances

The outstanding balance on advances amounted to GH¢5.94 million. It is made up of special advances to government employees, advances for the acquisition of motor vehicles and advances to government agencies for operation of revolving funds.

4.4.1.4 Loans (Receivables)

The balance comprises loans granted to statutory boards and corporations, companies and other foreign governments. The balance of GH¢665.82 million shows a decrease of GH¢3.99 million over the 2006 balance of GH¢669.81 million.

Loan balances amounting to GH¢5.85 million have been overdue since 1995. Out of this, provision has been made for GH¢4.51 million as doubtful debt.

4.4.1.5 Investments

The Investments held by the government are classified as follows:

Trust Funds

Investments in trust funds amounting

11.45 A.M. P.9 TABLE 4
Chairman of the Committee (Mr Albert Kan-Dapaah) 11:45 a.m.
to GH¢4.74 million represent balances held by Crown Agents on behalf of Government of Ghana. This represents bequests to the Government of Ghana by Sir Alfred Jones and H. S. Newlands and managed by Crown Agents.
International Agencies
Investments of GH¢4.98 million in international agencies represent Government's investments in International organizations. There was no additional investment during the 2007 financial year.
Local Investments
Investments amounting to GH¢93.85 million represent Government's investment in statutory boards, corporations and companies. 4.4.2 Liabilities
Liabilities in the Balance Sheet are summarized as follows:
4.4.3 Loans (Public Debt)
This is made up of domestic and foreign debt. Loans outstanding at the year end was GH¢7,027.76 million as compared to GH¢4,724.82 million in 2006. Included in the balance is an amount of GH¢728.18 million raised from the sovereign bond issued by the Government of Ghana in October, 2007.
The table below shows loans received as Multi-Donor Budget Support.
4.4.4 Deposits and Other Trust Monies
Trust funds balance at the end of the year was GH¢137.98 million as against GH¢45.33 million in 2006.
4. 5 Net Accumulated Results (Net Balance)
Net accumulated results consists of accumulated (deficit) or surplus on revenue and expenditure and other reserves.
The net balance of GH¢4,705.43
million at the end of the year shows an increase of GH¢999.87 million over the corresponding figure for 2006.
5.0 Observations and Recommendations
5.1 Arithmetical inaccuracies
The Committee observed that there were a number of errors identified with the financial statements submitted to the Auditor-General for audit. They included
11.45 A.M. P. 10 TABLE 5

omissions, overstatements, non-disclosure and arithmetical inaccuracies. The Controller and Accountant- General informed the Committee that these errors

usually occur during the computations. When these errors are brought to the Department's attention, steps are quickly taken to correct them and the financial statements adjusted accordingly.

He said these errors have been corrected and the new figures incorporated in the final accounts. The Department had also installed computer software which is

being used to review and eliminate these inaccuracies.

5 .2 Payment o f Unauthor ized

11.45 A.M. P.10 TABLE 6

Personal Emolument to Department of National Lotteries (DNL) totalling GH¢0.60 million

On the issue of payment of unauthorised Personal Emolument to DNL, the Controller explained that there was an arrangement with management of DNL where Controller and

Accountants General Department was to pay the salaries of their staff and DNL would reimburse the CAGD.

The CAG said the arrangement was done when DNL was made a subvented organisation and was to pay its staff. Management of DNL requested the Department to pay its staff until such time that it would put in place its own payroll system since the CAGD already had the staff of DNL in their system.

The CAG said all outstanding balances due from the DNL have been recovered.

5.3 Poor management of public loans -- GH¢669.30 million

The audit disclosed that loans totalling GH¢669.30 million granted to some individuals, Companies, Public Boards and Corporations, some dating back to the 1960s had not been recovered. No proper records were maintained to facilitate easy tracking of the loan beneficiaries.

The CAG informed the Committee that in line with the Auditor-General's recommendations, the Department had

11.45 A.M. P.11 TABLE 7
Mr Gershon K. B. Gbediame 11:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion. I will come later.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:45 a.m.
You should say it so that it is properly captured.
Mr Gbediame 11:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion and reserve the chance
to comment now. I want the Ranking Member of the Committee to do so.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:45 a.m.
Very well.
Question proposed.
Mr P. C. Appiah-Ofori (NPP - Asikuma/Odoben/Brakwa) 11:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, there has not been any change. And so the irregularities go on unabated; the national interest is not being protected by us.
As I said the other time, Mr Speaker, the Auditor-General Reports to us and brings to our notice irregularities that come to his notice. When he does this, it is our duty as Parliament to take remedial actions to prevent the recurrence of irregularities brought to our notice.
If we do not do so, then by implication, we are saying that people should continue to loot the country left and right. [Interruptions.] Yes, waa waa. I agree with you. And if we allow this to go on unabated, then we do not deserve to be called Members of Parliament. If we cannot stop the looting of the country, then where are we? Last week, we debated two accounts and the accounts were full of looting the country. What actions have we taken?
If we look at article 187, clause 6, it is clear that after the Auditor-General's Report has been debated by Parliament, a Committee should be set up where necessary for it also to look at it and those who have been found to have looted the country are handed over to the police for persecution. Do we do this? When have we done this before? Mr Speaker, after the audit, Parliament has debated it, and that ends it. Mr Speaker, we are failing this country, and so a way should be found for
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:55 a.m.
Hon
Member, for the records, we have ever done this, by referring people to the police. We have ever done it.
This is just for the record.
Mr Appiah-Ofori 11:55 a.m.
What did you say?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:55 a.m.
We
have ever referred people to the police with regard to the Report of the Auditor- General.
That is just for the record.
Mr Appiah-Ofori 11:55 a.m.
What I am saying
here is this, the Constitution imposes a duty on us to refer this Report Hon Kan- Dapaah has presented, after we have debated it, to the committee.
This is precisely article 187(6). It is very clear. Have we ever done this before? It says “when necessary -”, it became necessary when findings are that the nation has lost money and so they should be referred to the Committee for the Committee to look at it and come out with recommendations on remedial actions that should be taken to prevent the recurrence. Have we done that before? So it means therefore that we condone and connive in improprieties against the State and we should not be happy about this.
Mr Speaker, if you look at this expenditure - Personal Emoluments, average variance of GH¢124.04; in the old currency, it is ¢1.2 trillion average variance of payroll -- This amounts to payroll fraud. What are we going to do to stop it? And as I said the other day, when this happened in the early days of the New Patriotic Party (NPP) Administration, Mr Osafo-Marfo got students to do a
headcount, and the result was that, it was found that every month, 3,000 names were on the payroll as people who did not work, those who were not employees.
When Osafo-Marfo tried to remove it and indeed, he removed it, the first time in the history of this country, we ended up the year with positive variance of ¢17 billion. Thereafter, instead of continuing it, we have abandoned it and the people continue to loot the country. If we look at section 304 of the Financial Administration and Regulations, it is very clear that the payroll, after it had been prepared and before payment, should be submitted to the heads of department to look into it and find out whether there are names who are not employees of the organizations.
Mr Speaker, the Controller and Accountant-General will send this after four months, four months after payments have been done and people have collected the money before the payrolls will go to the heads of department and by that time, the damage would have been irreparable. So the looting continues. And if Parliament that is supposed to stop it, also after debating, does nothing because the Committee referred to under clause 6 of article 187 has never ever been formed and therefore people who have looted, go on unpunished and they are encouraged to continue to do so.
Mr Speaker, the time is ripe for
Parliament to wake up. [Hear! Hear!] Let us try and do the right thing; let us try and protect State resources; let us try and prevent people from looting this country. If we do not do so, we are failing the country. So I want to urge everybody to agree with me that after this one, we should make sure that that committee is formed and we will refer this to it for it to look at it. [Hear! Hear!]--
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:55 a.m.
Chairman of the Committee, you are not happy about the qualification to the account and yet you are recommending it to the House to approve. Look at the conclusion of your Report.
Mr Kan-Dapaah 11:55 a.m.
Mr Speaker, that
is so. Mr Speaker, this is the consolidated accounts of the Republic. It represents the accounts of the various MDAs where the inaccuracies that the Hon Member talked about would have occurred; actions would have been taken there. This simply consolidates the accounts of the various MDAs. The concerns raised by the Hon Member have been covered when the accounts of say, the Ministry of Energy, Ministry of Information and other Ministries were brought here. The qualifications -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:55 a.m.
What
about the issue of the unsubstantiated cash balance and direct debit transfers? Have they been taken care of?
Mr Kan-Dapaah 11:55 a.m.
Mr Speaker, in preparing the consolidated accounts, the auditors have observed these things and they believe that the Accountant-General should have handled them in a better way, and they are bringing them to our notice. It is not something new; it is not something original. So, I do not quite agree with what the Hon Member has said, especially the way he said it.
But the Hon Member has got a point in saying that in preparing the accounts of the country, it is important that the Accountant-General ensures that they are 100 per cent accurate and that there is no cause for the auditors to be concerned and to raise issues and say that “as far as these matters were concerned, we were not very happy.” And he is probably right in saying that this House will be probably advised to
communicate to the Accountant-General, that in presenting the accounts of the Republic, we do not want to hear about any inaccuracies in the figures contained in the accounts.
On that point, I think I will agree with the Hon Member.
Alhaji Seidu Amadu (NDC - Yapei/ Kusawgu) 12:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just want to make one observation as far as the Committee's Report is concerned, and that has to do with uncollected taxes by our revenue agencies, namely: Value Added Tax (VAT), Customs, Excise and Preventive Service (CEPS) and Internal Revenue Service (IRS).
Mr Speaker, everywhere in the world, officials of revenue agencies are the most protected and they are the most powerful when it comes to the collection of taxes. And you can see this when a tax officer visits any corporate organization. Even as individuals, we sometimes shiver simply because we do not want our tax liabilities to be known. Unfortunately, in this country, it appears our tax officials are not exercising the full powers that the law has given them in terms of collecting taxes.
Mr Speaker, if you look at the 2007 Report, you would realize that taxes uncollected amounted to about 730.5 per cent over the previous one. So you would ask yourself, how do you expect the Government to be able to discharge its developmental responsibilities to the people of this country? If Government missed money through taxes and the tax agencies are not able to collect the taxes that they are supposed to collect.
So in my view, I think that the Revenue Governing Agencies Board needs to look at this issue. How come that tax officers are not able to collect taxes and many people are defaulting?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Hon Chairman, your recommendation on the unsubstantiated cash balances - I am raising this point because of the points raised by Hon P. C. Appiah-Ofori - before I put the Question. If it is only the Committee that would be informed, how would people like Hon Appiah-Ofori know that the proper thing has been done?
Mr Kan-Dapaah 12:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in auditing the financial statements of an institution, even for a country like Ghana, the auditor's job is to have a look at the balance sheet and to give a certificate that all the figures shown there are correct. And that is exactly what the Auditor-General has done. But the Auditor-General is telling us that - under paragraph 6, he says there were some unsubstantiated cash balances, there is a figure included in the balance sheet as cash on hand.
He says he has not been able to find out to his satisfaction that indeed, that was the cash balance. Then he says, there were some direct debit transfers among the MDAs. He has not been able to confirm that these transfers actually took place. Then, he says in spite of all these things, he believes the accounts show a true and

fair view. That is what we have been asked to report on and that is exactly what we have also reported on --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
But is that not an irregularity?
Mr Kan-Dapaah 12:05 p.m.
It is not an irregularity at all.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Have you read your paragraph 5.5?
Mr Kan-Dapaah 12:05 p.m.
Yes. The Auditor- General, having taken all these things into account, is still saying that yes, the accounts are correct except for these matters that he has mentioned.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
And the difference of GH¢516,700.004.97 that has not been -- Is that difference not a serious irregularity?
Mr Kan-Dapaah 12:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, what paragraph is this?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Paragraph 5.5, at page 12, second paragraph under “Unsubstantiated cash balance.”
Mr Kan-Dapaah 12:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this is 2007 -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Yes, what I have is 2007.
Mr Kan-Dapaah 12:05 p.m.
And paragraph 5.5, that is “Unsubstantiated cash balances”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Absolutely.
Mr Kan-Dapaah 12:05 p.m.
Which is what I have talked about -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Look at the second paragraph.
Mr Kan-Dapaah 12:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the significance of that is that the Auditor- General is called upon to give an opinion whether the cash balance, in this case, which was about GH¢1.4 billion, is a valid asset; whether it did exist. The second paragraph is saying that he was given two schedules, and one of it had GH¢951 million and that there was a difference of GH¢516 million. This is a consolidation of the balances at the various Ministries. It does not represent loss as such. It is the supporting schedule which does not seem to tally.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
But is it not a serious matter?
Mr Kan-Dapaah 12:05 p.m.
The Auditor- General has therefore gone ahead to say that because of the significance of this thing, he wants to draw our attention to it.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
It is a serious matter or it is not?
Mr Kan-Dapaah 12:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if it was not serious, the Auditor-General would not have commented on it.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
So, how do we address this as a House so that these things do not reoccur and that is the gravamen of Hon P. C. Appiah-Ofori's “crusade.” If I should use that word.
Mr Kan-Dapaah 12:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, some explanation is needed here and we are going to cover that when we present the Report of 2008.
Mr Speaker, in this country, it is important that we have an accounting system in place at the Ministries, and also at the Accountant-General's Department, which will make it possible for all financial transactions of government to be captured, recorded and presented to us in the form of financial statement.
In this country, Mr Speaker, and for
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Hon Members, that brings us to the end of -
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Yes, Hon P. C. Appiah-Ofori?
Mr Appiah-Ofori 12:05 p.m.
I do not agree with my younger Brother there at all.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Hon Member, for this House, he is your senior.
Mr Appiah-Ofori 12:05 p.m.
All right, he is my younger Brother, but I would say the Hon Member if that is the right thing.
Mr Speaker, it looks as if he was trying to justify the looting of this country. And if we allowed this to go on unabated, what are we doing? Every government needs money to finance projects and activities that will bring improved quality of life for the people and the money, if it is stolen, if it is pocketed, and we do not do anything and we try and cover it up, we try and defend the actions, which are indefensible, then what are we doing?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:15 p.m.
Hon
Member, I think your language is rather too strong. I think that if you want to make reference to a particular part of the Report, you are entitled to do so. But making general statements, I think it is unacceptable.
Yes, Hon Chairman?
Mr Kan-Dapaah 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is important we do not confuse this issue. There were more differences in the two schedules that were presented. In actual fact, if he reads 5(5) and the fourth paragraph, he would note that the Controller and Accountant-General responded that the list of bank accounts and balances that constitute the Consolidated Fund has not been compiled and is available for review.
So even after the audit, the Auditor- General, after his Report, did ask them to do the reconciliation and this has since been referred to the Auditor-General, and in 2008, the Auditor-General confirms that the differences have now been cleared. So the impression should not be given that there was that huge balance and it was not possible to explain. It was explained after -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:15 p.m.
Hon Chairman, when I called you earlier, this was precisely what I expected you to clarify; when I called you earlier, this was precisely the point I wanted you to clarify, which you have now clarified. That was the impression that was created in this Report, and it did not make some of us very comfortable. But now you have clarified it.
Mr Appiah-Ofori 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, according to the Auditor-General, loans granted to public servants to buy vehicles run into several trillions of old cedis, since 1999, have not been recovered. Is it not

an irregularity which must be highlighted; is it right? Grant loans to people to buy vehicles and -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:15 p.m.
Hon Member, you have spoken to the debate. Unless you want to clarify something, you are offending the rules. If you want to clarify something, I would give you the chance.
Mr Appiah-Ofori 12:15 p.m.
Yes, I am clarifying something -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:15 p.m.
But if you are contributing, I am not -
Mr Appiah-Ofori 12:15 p.m.
I am not contributing, I am drawing attention to my - should I say - my Colleague's points and I do not want the House to accept them, because the Auditor-General -- it was very clear; many irregularities were pointed out in the Auditor-General's Report and we should not condone and connive in these. We have to go into it and take remedial actions to prevent these continuing; every year, look at the Auditor-General's Report; every year this looting goes on and if we do not do anything, Mr Speaker, after the debate, what are we going to do? Nothing.
So the people who still feel that they cannot be touched -- and if they cannot be touched, they would continue to loot every year. If you look at 2009, it is even worse. How? Why do we allow this to continue? So if we do not do the right thing and the Public Accounts Committee would try to defend it, then let us leave it to God to judge us.
Thank you.
Mr Kan-Dapaah 12:15 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, and to the Hon Member for the issues that he has raised. But Mr Speaker, I would want to repeat this.
The Auditor-General goes to audit the accounts as presented by the Accountant- General. The Auditor-General makes
some observations and these observations are all reported to the House in our report.
But Mr Speaker, if you take them one by one, the first was that there was a whole lot of inaccuracies, but if you read that Report, as captured in 5(1), it ends by saying that these errors have been corrected. The Auditor-General said, “we found it”, but they have been corrected and the new correct figures have been incorporated; that is 5(1).
Mr Speaker, there is 5(2) where another observation is made on the payment of unauthorised personal emoluments. The Auditor-General informed us about this and the Accountant-General has since informed the Auditor-General that all the outstanding balances due from the Department of National Lotteries as reported here have been recovered and mentioned in the accounts for 2008. In 5(3), they complained about poor management of public loans.
The Auditor-General's recommendation is that, most of these loans can simply not be collected and his recommendation is that the Accountant-General and the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning should bring a proposal to this House for Parliament to write those balances off. When he then talks about unsubstantiated cash balances, again, the Auditor-General ends up, that is 5(5), by saying that subsequent to the completion of the audit, all the balances have now been reconciled and that is also confirmed in the accounts for 2008.
With regard to the poor recovery of vehicle advances, the Auditor-General is not saying that something went on there which was not good; he is saying that a review of the vehicle advances revealed poor recovery rate; that people are not paying promptly. It is not saying that moneys have been misappropriated there and Mr Speaker, it is the same with all the audit findings. The Auditor-General feels obliged to tell us about some of his observations and also to tell us of the actions that are being taken.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:15 p.m.
Hon
Members, I want us to move to the Consideration Stage of the Bill. In view of the private discussion I had with you today, I want to consult Madam Speaker and the Leadership and see what we can do with regard to some of these follow- up actions with some of these reports, because the last time, this issue came up from the floor of the House.
The Committee has never been set up, and then again, I think that it is becoming a ritual that is not yielding any results, so that we can find out whether we can have some discussions on this matter and tomorrow at the end of the debate, some decisions can be taken.
It came up the last time; the Leadership said they were going to take it up and liaise with Madam Speaker on the matter
to see whether we can set up a committee; it never happened, and this issue keeps coming up on the floor of the House, so that we would see whether we need to put in place a committee to look at some of these matters so that our efforts here are not just taken as ordinary rituals.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, since you have intimated that you had a private discussion with the Chairman and I am not privy to the private discussion, I am unable to, maybe, pronounce on that.
But I thought that given the issue that you are not stranding out, relating to what to do with the Report, I think that on a same line, we could finish with it, subject to the issue that you have just raised; if we have to approve of it, we will do it subject to that, because I am not too sure that we can do anything outside that. But this House must insist that certain things are done; I agree. So we can do it; we can give the approval subject to those conditions. However, I am not privy to the private discussions.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
I cannot disclose a private - but some of the concerns that have been raised by Members and others interested in our work in this House, I think that the proper thing to do is to take these matters tomorrow. We will try and take them very early tomorrow. I will tell Madam Speaker so that we take it very early tomorrow. I have looked at the Order Paper for tomorrow and I think that we can take these matters early tomorrow.
Hon Members, Student Loan Trust Fund Bill, 2010 at the Consideration Stage.
BILLS -- CONSIDERATION 12:25 p.m.
STAGE 12:25 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee (Mr Mathias A. Puozaa) 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 24, subclause (1), line 1, after “require” insert “in writing to”.
That will make it better.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Puozaa 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 24, subclause (1), paragraph (c), at end, add “and address”.
Mr William O. Boafo 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with regard to the first amendment, I am a bit worried about the construction. The amended version reads as follows:
“The Board may require in writing --”
Because it says after “require” insert “in writing” but I think “in writing” should rather come after “may”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
Hon Chairman, did you get the point Hon Boafo made?
Mr Puozaa 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, well, it
did not look so bad when we were going through it, but I think it is all right. That is, we are proposing that -- the Board may require in writing to an employer.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
Hon
“the Board may in writing”
Mr Puozaa 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker “may in
writing”-- sorry.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
So,
move the amendment and let me put the Question again. Move it so that we put the Question.
Mr Puozaa 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,
“The Board may in writing require -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
Hon
Chairman, move the amendment; you are reading the new rendition; move the amendment, that will tell you where “in writing” should be.
Mr Puozaa 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 24, subclause (1), line 1, after “may” insert “in writing”.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, just to add that in that case, the word “to” should not appear.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
I agree
with you.
Mr Puozaa 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, then it should just end at “in writing.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
Very well.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Puozaa 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 24, subclause (1), paragraph (c), at end, add “and address”.
That is “workplace and address”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
Hon Chairman of the Committee, how do you reconcile that with subclause (b) that talks about postal addresses? This one, you are only talking about address.
Mr Osei B. Amoah 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker,
sorry, I was taking us back but probably, I will defer it because in clause 24 (1), if you come to the last line, there is also “on a person it may require in writing”, which is not the right thing. After (i) “any other information”, there is also “on a person it may require in writing”, which creates -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
Yes, the
good news is that we are still on subclause
(1), so we can still make the necessary amendments to correct it.
Mr O. B. Amoah 12:25 p.m.
Thank you.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
But let us
deal with the Chairman's -
All right, Chairman of the Committee, you said the amendment, we should do it -- the amendment should be “workplace and address”, so the comma there will go. The comma will come after the address. Hon Members -
Hon Minority Leader, they want to add the “address” to the “workplace” because the (b) deals with residential address and postal address. And the “workplace” too should come with its address.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, is the address referring to the workplace? Is it intended to mean the address of the workplace?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
What they are saying is that, you should indicate your workplace and then the address of that workplace. That is the intention of the amendment. You must indicate your workplace and the address of that work- place.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if that is the intention , then clearly, if you say workplace and address, it does not capture the sense.
So if you are saying workplace and the address of the workplace, that makes it comprehensive. But when you say workplace and address, I do not know what address that you -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Chairman, did you get the point that he was making?
Mr Puozaa 12:35 p.m.
We really do not see the difference that the Leader is trying
to make.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
He wants to make it clearer; to put the matter beyond doubt, that we are talking about the address of the workplace. That is the point the Hon Minority Leader is making.
Mr Puozaa 12:35 p.m.
All right, no problem.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Hon Minority Leader, then move your amendment for me to put the Question on it and we can make progress.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it should read “work place and the address of the workplace.” That captures the sense better than the rendition given by the Chairman.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Hon Members, this is not a controversial matter. So let us put the Question and make progress. Hon Deputy Minister -
Dr Joseph S. Annan 12:35 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, I was going to suggest that for the clarity that the Hon Minority Leader wants, we could make it “workplace location and address.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Workplace, location and address? Hon Member for Akropong -
Mr Boafo 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the rendition by the Hon Deputy Minister presupposes a physical and postal address - workplace location - physical; and then address. So I do not think it solves the problem.
Dr Annan 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thought the issue was that there was confusion between the intent of which address is intended under -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
There is no confusion; we are talking about the address of the workplace but how do we capture it to carry that message? That

we are talking about the address of the workplace.
Dr Annan 12:35 p.m.
So the address of the work place?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
That is the amendment moved by the Hon Minority Leader - what you have just said.
Dr Annan 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thought that the location, sometimes many business concerns do not have the same address and location, that is why I proposed that difference. The registered address may not be the same as the operating business address.
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Hon Majority Chief Whip, I saw you on your feet.
Mr Gbediame 12:35 p.m.
I was wondering whether when you put workplace address, it would not satisfy everything. Instead of saying workplace and workplace address - because there can never be an address without indicating where the address belongs to. If we say the work place address, I think it caters for what we are saying -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
If you ask somebody who works in Parliament, the workplace, he would just say Parliament - simpliciter.
Mr Gbediame 12:35 p.m.
But if you ask him the address of the workplace, how would he say it?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
“Parliament House, Accra” - [Laughter.]
Mr Gbediame 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that is why I am saying that if I am asked to give my workplace address, I am going to start from “Office of Parliament, Parliament House, Accra.” So he will know that am
working at Parliament House.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Hon Member, where you work is different from the address of where you work. They are two separate things. Where you work is different from the address of your work place. They are two separate things. If the information is that where do you work, your workplace? I will give you my workplace. If you ask me the address of my workplace, I will give you the address of my workplace.
Hon Majority Chief Whip -
Mr Gbediame 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think the essential thing is to locate where the person is working as far as the Bill is concerned, and to know where the person is working, then we give the address of the place which includes the name of the place plus the postal address or whatever.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
But that is the essence of this amendment. What you have just said now is the essence of this amendment.
Mr Gbediame 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am saying that, if you say workplace address or address of workplace, it caters for the workplace and the workplace address. That is my argument.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Workplace address?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think in crafting laws, we have always done what I suggested. Why my Hon Colleague should be dragging this, I cannot just understand. I thought the Deputy Minister himself understood the sense and he was trying to capture it except it was not comprehensive enough.
So Mr Speaker, I believe that is the way forward.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
So “workplace address” and “location of workplace” - [Interruption.]
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Yes -
Dr Annan 12:35 p.m.
I think then we should just take it as “workplace and workplace address”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Very well.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Chairman.
Mr Puozaa 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 24, subclause (1), paragraph (h), after “number” insert “or any other recognized National Pension Scheme number.”
This is not to limit ourselves to just one - the Social Security and National Insurance Trust (SSNIT). There are other pension schemes that are operating, so any recognized pension scheme would be acceptable.
Mr Boafo 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, reference has been made to Social Security and I believe the reference is to Social Security and National Insurance Trust. That is what is known; we do not know it as Social Security. We know the Scheme to be called Social Security and National Insurance Trust -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Hon Boafo, so what should you be doing? You know what you should be doing.
Mr Boafo 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if the intention is to refer to SSNIT, then it must be fully spelt out.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
How many social security numbers do you have apart
from that of SSNIT? Chairman -
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
I think we have only one recognised social security number. That is why we have --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
What
Hon Boafo is saying is that, we should put “SSNIT number” there. That captures the full import of the organisation's social security number that we are talking about. That is the point Hon Boafo is making.
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
I think that is true.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
So move
the amendment; it is in your name.
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I be to move,
clause 24, subclause (1), paragraph (h), we should insert not just “number” social security number; Social Security and National Insurance Trust --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
You did not get the import of the point that he made.
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
No, I think I do
understand; I got it.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
He said it should be a SSNIT number.
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
All right.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
That is
the point Hon Boafo is making.
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thought
it would have been better giving the full rendition of SSNIT.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Yes. That
is the point Hon Boafo is making. So he says, “Social Security and National
Insurance Trust number.”
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, so, please,
insert before “number” -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Hon
Chairman, what Hon Boafo is saying is that we have not advertised that amendment; it is a new amendment altogether. So instead of saying “social security number”, we should say “Social Security and National Insurance Trust number” and then you add your amendment to it to make it complete, so that I would put the Question.
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I bet to move, clause 24, subclause (1), paragraph (h), before “number” -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Hon Chairman, all that you need to do is to say,
delete “social security number, and insert ‘Social Security and National Insurance Trust number.”
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, thank you for the assistance.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause
24, subclause (1), paragraph (h), delete “social security number” and insert “Social Security and National Insurance Trust number.” And add “or any other recognised National Pension Scheme number.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Very well.
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
That is what it should be.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Hon Boafo, you have got the amendment now?
Mr Boafo 12:45 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.

Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 24, subclause (1), the line after paragraph (i), delete “person it may require in writing” and insert “borrower or guarantor.”
So “Any other information on a person, it may require in writing,” please, delete that and insert “borrower or guarantor.”
Mr Boafo 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am suggesting that it may be more expedient to take the Hon Chairman's proposed amendment and the next one together because they appear to be dealing with the same area of concern. He is asking for the substitution of “borrower or guarantor” and I am asking for the substitution of “applicant or guarantor.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Hon Members, the two of you should agree between yourselves. When one is going to apply for the loan, he or she is an applicant.
Mr Boafo 12:45 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker. The person does not become a borrower.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Until the person is granted the facility?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Hon Chairman, what do you say to his amendment?
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I find it very difficult to see the difference; it is just a matter of semantics - “applicant” and “borrower.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Hon
Boafo, what about joining the two? Will it cause any violence to the Bill?
Mr Boafo 12:45 p.m.
No, Mr Speaker, it will not
cause any damage.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
If you join yours and his together?
Mr Boafo 12:45 p.m.
It will not cause any damage because we are dealing with the same area.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
If you join the two together?
Mr Boafo 12:45 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
In other words, what I am suggesting by saying you should join the two is to add “applicant” to the “borrower and the guarantor.”
Mr Boafo 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that will work out.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Then one of you should move the amendment accordingly.
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we should not also lose the point of fact that “borrower” has been used throughout the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
But have they also used the word “applying” for the facility? Have they used it anywhere, where you have to apply for the facility before it is granted? Hon Chairman, do you not have to apply for the facility?
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, as one applies, the person is a borrower too.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Hon Boafo, the Hon Chairman is saying that “borrower” has been used throughout the Bill and I was trying to find out from him whether you have to apply for the loan
in the first instance but he says you used “borrower” throughout the Bill. What do you say to that?
Mr Boafo 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I cannot challenge what he is saying that “borrower” has been used throughout the Bill, but if what he is saying is right, then I will yield to his proposed amendment.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Hon Chairman, how do you access the loan? Which clause of the Bill deals with that?
Mr Puozaa 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, you apply -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Look at clause 21, “an application for funding.” So they have used “application” too - “Application for funding,” clause 21. “An application for funding from the Fund shall be in the form prescribed by the Board.” So both of you are right.
Yes, Chairman?
Mr Puozaa 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if you go
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
The
application has also been used in the Bill, so we need information from all the people who are involved in the process, so if you add -
Mr Boafo 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have
identified one ground of challenge, that is clause 21(7). It is not entirely true that “borrower” has been used throughout. We have “an applicant dissatisfied with the decision of the Board”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
Yes, I
also referred to clause 21 earlier. Hon Chairman, you should just join all together
and I will put the Question.
Mr J. B. Aidoo 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in this context, “borrower” or “guarantor” is more appropriate because after clause 21, the person becomes a borrower; before then he is an applicant but after clause 21, if you look at clauses 22, 23, they are talking about the “borrower”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
Hon
Member for Amenfi East, read the head notes -- ”Power of the Board to demand information.”
Mr J. B. Aidoo 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in this
context, I believe that the information the Board is seeking is information from the borrower; that is where the person has been granted the loan -- from that stage, the Board may demand certain information and that is why it is even talking about “require in writing to the employer”, “or” “an institution or a person -- all the information that has been stated there. So in this respect, it is about the borrower and not the applicant.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, the Hon Member for Amenfi East is right. Because from clause 21, it talks about the application; at that level, one is an applicant. But then after clause 22, when we are talking about loan protection -- and clause 23 talks about deduction from the salary of the employee for repayment. The funds have been secured; now, one needs to pay back and clause 24 is in respect of the location of that person who has already benefited. Which is why we are talking about an employee -- or if the person himself has employed himself or herself in an institution, he or she is required to provide these details. So I think it should be to -- not the applicant now but the Board.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
Then we
may have to do some work on clause 24(2)
to make it clearer.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, clause 24(2) says “the request for information shall apply to an employee who was educated at a tertiary institution in the country.” In other words, he has already benefited.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
No, it
does not necessarily mean so, that he has already benefited. If he has been educated at a tertiary institution --
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
Yes, it says it shall apply to an employee who was educated at a tertiary institution; that is the person who has profited from this; otherwise, what is the import of --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
The person there should be a beneficiary. But if you look at the way they put it, it is -
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
So Mr Speaker, you mean “the employee” should rather read “beneficiary”?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
Absolutely.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
Fine, Mr Speaker, I agree with the sense except to register the point that it refers to somebody who has already benefited from the Scheme.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
Yes.Then it puts the matter beyond doubt.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
Right.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
Hon Members, I will now put the Question. Clause 24, subclause 1, the line after paragraph I, delete “person it may require in writing” and insert “borrower or guarantor.”

Hon Chairman, are you keeping the word “on”? Is it correct? -- [Pause] -- It is allright. I will put the Question --
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if an employer employs a beneficiary of this Scheme, how is the employer to know the location --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
Let us
finish with this amendment and then we can come to that.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
All right.
Question put and amendment agreed to
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
Hon Minority Leader, I have not pronounced the result of the voice vote so let me hear from you.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in the original rendition of this, we are talking about the Board requiring information relating to a beneficiary who may be working with an employee, that is other than he himself employing himself, or the person employing himself or an institution employing a beneficiary, then we are supposed to provide these details.
Mr Speaker, I do not see the burden to be imposed on the guarantor in there; it is the person who is working in that institution. He has benefited and they want to know this. They are not even saying the “borrower and guarantor”; they are saying “borrower or guarantor”. It means they could go to either parties' that is my worry. Where are we locating this burden?
Mr Boafo 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the thing is in two scenarios; the first one is the Board demanding the data from an employer, a person or an institution; and the data is being demanded on a “borrower or guarantor” to enable them to fully process or do something about the loan, which is
being sought. So I do not see why -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
It is about loan repayment at that stage and if it is about loan repayment, then the law of guarantorship -- We can ignore the borrower and deal with the guarantor. We can ignore the borrower completely under the law of guarantorship and deal straight with the borrower.
Prof. Mike A. Oquaye 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think you have helped us clearly. The law applicable where we have a loan -- there is a taker and there is a guarantor. It is clear. So it will apply automatically and we have no difficulty.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
The Hon Minority Leader is trying to draw a fine distinction which we may have to listen to again.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:05 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, the Board requires relevant information from an employer relating to an employee - an employee who has been a beneficiary. Now, by this construction, we seem to be suggesting that we could even ignore the beneficiary and go to the guarantor.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
Absolutely.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:05 p.m.
Yes; and
I am saying that it really should be to the beneficiary if there is any case of default, then perhaps, we are bringing in the guarantor. But we are saying that let us not deal with the beneficiary at all, let us go to the guarantor -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
It is either, or --
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:05 p.m.
That is why I am saying that this construction that we could go to the beneficiary or the
guarantor, in my view, there is something that is missing.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
Hon Minority Leader, is the employer a person or an institution? And just because there is an employer-employee relationship, the person is working in their organization who has benefited. The person can be himself or it can be his guarantor. The person can be the person himself or his guarantor. They just said “a person”; he can be himself or a guarantor.
Mr Stephen K. B. Manu 1:05 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, Kofi has taken a loan; Kofi had Kwame as a guarantor; we want to recover the loan. So if we say Kofi or Kwame, my understanding is that we want Kofi to repay the loan but where Kofi is not available, we lay hands on Kwame as guarantor. So I do not see why we are haggling over this matter. I think it is there because we may need this one but in default, we look for that one -- that is why the “or” is there. I do not know what that will not -
Prof. Oquaye 1:05 p.m.
I heard the Hon First
Deputy Speaker clearly. The law itself allows the giver of the loan to choose. It does have to fall first on the giver of the loan before going on the guarantor, and if we get that clear, we have no problem. That is the law. So it is a matter of having a choice. If one goes and guarantees a loan, he should know that the giver of the loan is not obliged to fall first on the taker, he can fall even first spot on the guarantor or both.
Question put and Motion agreed to.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
If there is any difficulty, we will look at it at the Second Consideration Stage so that we can make some progress.
Mr Puozaa 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 24, subclause (3), line 2,
Mr Boafo 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, before the Hon Chairman moves to the clause to which you have asked him to propose the amendment, there was an observation made with regard to subclause (2), line 1, which reads as follows:
“The request for information shall apply to an employee who was educated at the tertiary institution in the country.”
And I think there was an idea that we should substitute “beneficiary” with “employee”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
Hon Chairman, did you get the import of the amendment? Because if it is information about anybody at all who has attended tertiary education, then even if you have not benefited from the loan, you can get the information from -- it is not very clear.
Mr Puozaa 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do
agree with Hon Boafo. I agree with him because as it stands, it could mean - There are many people who go through the universities without collecting a loan. There are quite a number. Therefore, as it stands, it is not clear enough because I might have attended a university without benefiting from the loan. So if we say “beneficiary” here, it is most appropriate.
Mr Manu 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, forgive me if I go off tangent. I do not have the Bill in hand. But if we are looking for information -- are we still on that? If it is information that the Board needs then the target group is anybody who has attended tertiary institution, and out of that information, they would be able to pick those who collected the loans. [Interruptions.] In filling the form, one will indicate whether one took the loan or not, other than that, how do they target -- If we say “beneficiaries”, how do they come by -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
The
Board must have its records. The Board must have its record of people who have benefited from its loans.
Mr Manu 1:05 p.m.
If that is so, then that
entire section where the Board will be requiring information is not necessary by the extension of your argument.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
No. They have information that a person benefited from their facility and that person is working with them, so that they will then tell that person that “yes”, And if he is actually working with them, then they will start deducting from the person's salary. That is the kind of scenario they are creating.
Mr Manu 1:05 p.m.
That is why I am saying
that, the target group is tertiary institution graduates. So if they say “tertiary institution”, it does not mean whoever attended tertiary institution but those who attended tertiary institutions and took loans.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
That is
precisely the import of the amendment; those who benefited from the loans and attended tertiary institutions. That is the Hon Boafo's amendment.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker,
if you look at clause 23(1), it reads as follows:
“An employer shall enquire from an employee who has had tertiary education in the country at the time of the commencement of the employment, whether the employee is a borrower from the Fund . . .”
So really, the information is about borrowers from the Fund. That is why
the amendment by the Hon Member for Akropong is in order. But it should be “borrower” not “beneficiary.” I think I heard “beneficiary.”
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:05 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, I am just going to say that because it is not only in respect of clause 23(1) but clause 23(2) also stresses on the employee being a borrower. So for consistency, even though we know that the two mean the same thing, I think we better go for an employee who is a borrower, or I do not know whether in this case, it would be an “employee”, who was a borrower.
Mr Boafo 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not have
any problem with the proposed amendment by the Hon Member for Sekondi. Because, Mr Speaker, to retain an “employee” may not achieve the result because the person may not, at that time, be employed at all; he may be unemployed or he may be self- employed. In that case, if one is strictly interpreting it, it is taken out of the - so the “borrower” is all right.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
So what we
are doing is to delete the word “employee” and substitute it with “borrower”?
Mr Boafo 1:05 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Puozaa 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 24, subclause (3), line 2, delete “Trust” and after “Fund” insert “and that institution or agency shall comply”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 24 as amended ordered to stand
part of the Bill.
Clause 25 - Procedure for recovery of loan.
Mr Puozaa 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 25 , subclause (1), line 2, after “months” insert “within the last twelve months.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Hon
Chairman of the Committee, what is the import of the amendment?
Mr Puozaa 1:15 p.m.
Where a borrower defaults
in repaying the loan for six cumulative months, then we say,
“within the last twelve months the Board may publish the borrower's name and the name of the borrower's guarantor in the daily newspaper in the country.
This to us -- instead of six months, we want an extension of time.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
What
we have in the Bill is talking about the cumulative effect. Now, your amendment is taking away that cumulative effect. The Bill is talking about six months cumulative but you are saying twelve months; are you removing “cumulative” or you are still adding “cumulative” in your amendment?
Mr Puozaa 1:15 p.m.
I think, we thought the
twelve months is a matter of giving more time. And the “cumulative” there is relevant.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
They are
talking about the cumulative effect where for six months, you have not paid anything at all - continuous. It should be six months continuous. And it is different from -- you saying “within twelve months.”
Mr Boafo 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, a careful
reading of the proposed amendment will give us this rendition:
“Where a borrower defaults in repaying the loan for six cumulative months within the last twelve months…”
This is because the amendment states:
subclause (1), line 2, after “months” insert “within the last twelve months.” I do not know.
So, I want the Hon Chairman to give an explanation. He is asking for an insertion after “months”; he is not asking for deletion of anything at all.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
But he is
also talking about subclause (1) where we have the - Is that not the only clause where they mention the months?
Mr Boafo 1:15 p.m.
That is line 2 - Clause
25, subclause (1), line 2, after “months” insert “within the last twelve months”, meaning we still retain the “six cumulative months”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Hon Members, is it the thinking of the House that people should be in default for twelve months? People should be in default - This should be a revolving fund -- will the Fund not dry out? Is that the thinking of the House?
Mr Puozaa 1:15 p.m.
I think since the whole amendment was supposed to give it more time and it seems not to go down very well, why do we not just delete it and let it stand? So, I wish to withdraw my amendment because the purpose of the amendment was to give more time. But if it is not going down well, I think we better drop it.
Mr Avoka 1:15 p.m.
I agree with the Hon Chairman that the amendment should be withdrawn. I think that to have defaulted for a cumulative period of six months is long enough for them to take action against one rather than wait for twelve months to expire before we know that there have been six months accumulated and so on. I think that the way it is now, it is much neater and I think it has given enough opportunity. Besides, within the six accumulated months, if they are to
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Very well, the amendment is withdrawn.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Hon W. O. Boafo, move your amendment.
Mr Boafo 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with your permission, if the amendments numbered (xiv), (xv) and (xvi) could be deferred to tomorrow. I intend improving upon the text of the amendments.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Maybe, you do not only improve but do more consultation.
Mr Boafo 1:15 p.m.
I would do so, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Very well.
So, in that case, let me defer the whole clause 25 - [Pause] -- or I can take the last one.
Hon Chairman, should we defer the whole of clause 25? Otherwise, if we do not take time, we will agree to something, then when this one is done, they will conflict. So, let me defer the entire clause
25.
Hon W. O. Boafo has amendments which he is deferring; that include numbers (xiv), (xv) and (xvi). And I am saying that if we jump there and we take the Hon Chairman's amendment and it runs and there is a problem with what we have agreed to, and then we come back to it but we have accepted it, then there could be a problem. That is what I am saying. So, if we can follow it serially as far as clause
25 is concerned.
Mr Avoka 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with the
greatest respect, I do not know the justification or the good reasons that the Hon W. O. Boafo had before he asked us to defer until tomorrow. I do not know why he is arresting the proceedings.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon
Boafo, the Hon Majority Leader wants to know why you want to defer and delay the proceedings; why do you want to defer the amendment and delay the proceedings?
Mr Boafo 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is not my intention to delay the proceedings but it is my intention to do quality job in the House. Mr Speaker, I would like to improve upon the textual presentation by inserting provision to the effect that after the notification of the default, it must be evident that the person has received the notification and in spite of that he or she has not responded. It does not appear or reflect in the current proposal and I think natural justice requires that such an amendment should be made.
Mr Avoka 1:25 p.m.
Well, I can appreciate that it may not be realistically possible to finish all the amendments today. If it is only clause 25 that he is asking for the step down to do some further work, I think we are all looking for a good law to be passed than rather hurry and make a law. And as I said earlier, we can do the clause 26 onwards and the time being 1.10 to about 2.00 o'clock when we adjourn, then tomorrow we would have his clause and any other thing that is left to complete it . So I can yield to what he is saying.
Thank you.
Clause 26 -- Obligation on borrower to provide information.
Mr Puozaa 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 26, subclause (1), delete “Board” and insert “Fund”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Boafo 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 26, subclause (1), paragraph (b), line 1, after “employer” insert “or guarantor.”
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Puozaa 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 26, subclause (1), paragraph (c), delete “Board” and insert “Fund”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 26 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 27 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 28 -- Senior loan.
Mr Boafo 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 28, line 2, delete “have” and insert “rank in”
Mr Speaker, the proposed amendment seeks to import the language which most people will use in relation to borrower and lender relationship. The loan would rank either pari passu or in priority. That is why I am proposing to delete “have” and insert “rank in” -- either pari passu on equal footing or in priority to another loan.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Can you not get some other words?
Mr Boafo 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the explanation is to seek and import into the clause 28, the language which is found mostly in --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Very well. Hon Members, I would put the Question.
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Yes ?
Mr Avoka 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not think that my Hon Colleague has given enough reasons for this amendment. I think that
with all due humility, he is being very pedantic and then even though it is not out of place, I think that this is a loan that is going to govern young students in this country and then parents, some of whom are illiterate. So the language must be as simple as possible, if it carries the same meaning. This document is not meant for legal practitioners; it is meant for all ordinary Ghanaians.
So unless he is saying that the provision in the Bill as it stands now is wrong, then we can appreciate that. But if he is only making it to look elegant and embellishing it and at the end of the day people who want to make use of the loan facility and this document would have to employ the services of a lawyer or some legal brain, with all the greatest respect, I think we are overstretching the thing. So I would plead with him, that if he is not trying to create market for himself and other lawyers, if he is not creating market for the legal field, we should leave it as it is in the Bill because I think it is very clear.
Mr Boafo 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am a bit surprised at the Hon Majority Leader's reaction because we are not only here to create jobs but we are also here to create opportunities. [Laughter.] So I think we should allow -- We are not here only to create jobs, we are here also to create opportunities. So he should allow the amendment.
Mr Puozaa 1:25 p.m.
I think the laymen here are of the view that if “Senior loan” is an accepted jargon or statement, then I think it is good for the layman's understanding than “rank in” or whatever. It would be more confusing. So if it does not offend any law or term, then I think, let us let it stand.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Yours too is not offending any law; his too is not offending any law. [Laughter.]
Mr Puozaa 1:25 p.m.
Shall “rank in” --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon Member, what you have to do is to appeal to him.
Mr Puozaa 1:25 p.m.
I have always appealed to him anyway.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
That is what you have to do; that is what the Hon Majority Leader was doing. Then you should appeal to him.
Mr Puozaa 1:25 p.m.
I think loans contracted from the Fund are deemed to be senior loans and shall have priority over other loans contracted by the borrower. This is simple and straightforward. When you bring in “rank in” --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
“...shall rank in priority.”
Mr Puozaa 1:25 p.m.
Pari passu --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
No, no, Pari passu is not here; they are “rank in priority.”
Hon Boafo, what do you have to say to the appeal from the Majority Leader and the Chairman of the Committee?
Mr Boafo 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the appeal has not come only from the Majority Leader and the Chairman but my other Colleague lawyers here have also indicated that we retain “have”. [Hear! Hear!]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Very well. Thank you for your co-operation. Thank you very much, Hon Boafo.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 28 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 2 - Borrower on scholarship
Mr Puozaa 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 2, line 2, delete “is not eligible to apply for”. and insert “may not

be eligible for the grant of . . .”

Despite any other provision in any enactment to the contrary, a person may not be eligible for the grant of a loan under this Act. I think it is better than what it stands now.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon Chairman, while the other is -- now you can benefit from both by your new amendment that you are bringing. You benefit from other scholarships and you also come for this loan. Is that what you want?
Mr Puozaa 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, yes.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Given the number of needy students around, is that -
Mr Puozaa 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, well, the argument mooted by several members of the Committee.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
So, you should take government scholarship and you also go back and take the loan while some do not have access to any at all? I thought that if you were rather taking away the private institutions or organizations that would rather - but if you take from government scholarship which is funded from the public source, then you also go and take the loan which is also public -
Mr Avoka 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that with the greatest respect to the Chairman, this amendment is unmeritorious. I think that having regard to the circumstances we find ourselves in public life, where people use a lot of connections, they use people in authority and influence to get undue share of what they are entitled to, this will be a very dangerous amendment that people can continue to benefit when others do not have access to anything at all.
So, I will rather suggest like you have indicated, that we should delete the private institutions so that if somebody has the
ability to go to a private institution to secure a loan or a facility, that is different. But where it is public, then he cannot benefit from the Fund again, otherwise, there would be too many people who would be having access to it and the majority of those who do not have contact will not get at all.
Mr Boafo 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think the Chairman is thinking of a scenario where the support from the public source may not be sufficient to enable the student pursue the programme or the course of studies. That is why they are saying that notwithstanding the fact that you have got some little money from somewhere, you could still supplement it from this Scheme. I think that may be what he is thinking of, among other things.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Before I come to the Chairman, yes, Hon Member.
Mr Mathias Ntow 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, at the committee level, we realized that depending on the course, a particular person is undertaking at the university, some courses are more expensive and restricting graduates to this particular loan, it may happen that that person may not have the requisite resource to pay all the fees. Therefore, if it is open or relaxed, then the person will have the benefit from other loans, we realized that the two added together, the person would be able to cater for the fees that are required to be paid by that particular student.
Prof. (Emeritus) S. K. Amoako 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just want to add my voice to what the last member of the Committee said. We had a briefing from the Board in charge of loans as we have it now. There were many instances where students were granted loans which were not adequate for their tuition and fees and because of that they could not undertake the courses.
So, we were trying to introduce some
flexibility there so that it would be examined on its merit on those who are eligible for additional loan would be granted because we wanted to make a difference between a scholarship and a loan. A loan is supposed to be paid back but if you deprive a student of a loan and because the student has inadequate levels of scholarship, he cannot undertake the course, I think we are doing some disservice to the student. That is why I wanted to introduce this element of flexibility so that the Board, in its wisdom, would examine and grant selective grants to the student.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon Members, (a) and (b) must be read together; they are not mutually exclusive. They are mutually inclusive, so you have to read (a) and (b) together. If you read (a) and (b) together, then there is no need to move the amendment that the Hon Chairman of the Committee is moving. This is because, if you do not satisfy (b), then you can benefit from it. Then that addresses the concern that Hon Members of the Education Committee are complaining about; (a) is not standing on its own feet.
Hon Chairman of the Committee, did you get it? You can still benefit from it, if you come under (a) and (b), then you will not benefit. But if you do not come under (a) and (b); then you will benefit. So that addresses the concern of the Committee.
Hon Balado, have you got your Bill now?
Mr S.K.B. Manu 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not have it but I remember this provision very well when we discussed it, because I was against what was being said. If I have my town Domeabra, they have a scholarship scheme to promote education in their community and they gave me some scholarship, and you are saying that because my community gave me a scholarship, I cannot benefit from the loan scheme --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon Member, the second amendment to clause
29 addresses that concern, that is not what we are talking about. That one has been addressed by the next amendment.
Mr Manu 1:25 p.m.
All right.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee, do you still want to keep it? Because it is -
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we have moved away from this sort of free grant or everybody applying to those who are really in need. So, the idea is that, if you have a scholarship, equal to the maximum amount, you cannot be said to be in need. That is the point. This whole Trust Fund is based on need so that those who need more can get the maximum. So, it is not as if you are entitled to apply for a loan; so every year, everybody goes for a loan. Definitely, if you are enjoying a scholarship from the Government of Ghana, you have already benefited and you cannot be in need. [Interruption.] But that is what it says, Do you have the Bill? The Bill says:
“ . . . borrow or obtains a scholarship from the Government of Ghana or from a public funded source or any private institution or organization.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
No, they have filed an amendment to that “private source”; that one, they have filed an amendment to it.
Mr Emmanuel A. Owusu-Ansah 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, yes, what I am saying is that, I would not have agreed to that amendment because it is really “need”. If you are enjoying from your parents, it is a private funded source, and your parents can afford, why should you go for the loan? It is based on need, so you have need assessment; that is the whole rationale behind this thing. So, whether from public or private, once you are not in need, you are not entitled to apply. That
is the whole rationale behind this thing. So, I believe that the amendment should be reconsidered.
Mr Puozaa 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with due respect to my Hon Brother -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Hon Chairman of the Committee, all the explanations that you have been giving as members on the Education Committee; if you read (a) and (b) -- because if that funding is equal to or exceeds, why do you go and take the loan again? That is the point that the Hon Member for Sekondi, and the Hon Majority Leader - that is the point they are making.
Mr Puozaa 1:45 p.m.
Yes, we have seen that point.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
You have it in abundance, then you go for a loan again?
Mr Puozaa 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, what we think is that since we do not know the volume of the loan -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
But you know the value of the scholarship and that it is equal to -
Mr Puozaa 1:45 p.m.
Since we do not know the volume of the loan, we are thinking that there could be a situation where what you collect from this source, the Trust or the Fund is not just enough even in addition to what you may get from others. It depends on what you are studying, anyway.
So, we just said “the ability to pay” is what we should be looking at - yes, to refund.
Prof Dominic K. Fobih 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the object of this clause is that, the loan facility is meant to cater for a need factor, that every qualified tertiary student in an accredited tertiary institution has been
given the opportunity to pursue his or her tertiary education and we do not want financial constraint to be a hindrance. That is the essence of evolving this loan facility. It is not just a loan for the giving.
So what is being said here is that, if you have a scholarship from the Ghana Government or a private organization which is equivalent, equal to or exceeds; if it is less, you can get the supplementation from this Trust. But if it is more than it, then the loan is going to be excess money you are taking, And we are saying that within the present constraint of the economy we cannot afford to just give the loan just for the giving.
So that is why in the wisdom of the policy makers or the Committee, it was felt that this should be the limitation factor in this clause.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
What you have described is what is in the Bill. What you have stated now is what is in the Bill. Yes, that is the thinking of a number of Hon Members on the matter. Your position is shared by a number of Members, but the amendment - the Chairman of the Committee must tell us something so that we can make progress.
Dr Annan 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think we want to buttress the point that this is talking about scholarships - clause 29 (a) and (b) are both talking about scholarships. So there would be other sources that the students can access, even other loans; I think it is important to know that.
Then the other point is the equity side of it. Since we have no measure here for needs testing, we cannot then start to make differences for those who obtain scholarships and the extent at which they may or may not have resources for
repayment.
So I think it is important to underscore that with scholarships there is no means testing and therefore in the name of equity, we should maintain (a) and (b) as they are.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
So your position is that you are not in favour of the amendment; is that your position?
Mr Puozaa 1:45 p.m.
I am not indeed, in favour of the amendment and Mr Speaker, I think we should just drop it.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Very well. I will now put the Question on clause 29 - Sorry, there is another amendment standing in the name of Hon Boafo, clause 29 -
Mr Boafo 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in view of the amendments to clause 29 (a), I wish to withdraw -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
The amendment has been withdrawn? All the amendments to clause 29 standing in the Chairman's name have been withdrawn.
Mr Boafo 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 29, paragraph (a), line 5, after “organization” insert “or an individual sponsor.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Is that not a private source?
Mr Boafo 1:45 p.m.
It is a private source.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Yes. “any private institution, organization or individual” -
Mr Avoka 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with due respect, it would be difficult to ascertain this individual source that he is talking about. As for an institution, there might be evidence to that effect - you can subpoena - but a private individual, they are so
Mr Avoka 1:45 p.m.


private that I do not think they should be part of the law. We cannot determine that; we cannot access that information easily.
Mr Boafo 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if we cannot ascertain that information now, it does not mean that we cannot do it in future.
Secondly, Mr Speaker, I do not know whether the Hon Majority Leader has been doing it but most Members of Parliament do sponsor students in tertiary institutions. So I think it is appropriate to extend the provision to individuals.
Mr Kwabena O. Darko-Mensah 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, while we agree that there should be some kind of equity, I do believe that we need to be critical and also be careful to ensure that we do not crowd out some people. That is because currently, if we take the student loans, it is just about three million cedis (GH¢300), therefore, if somebody is attending a private school and he needs a loan for instance and then it is eighteen million, even the private contribution, say ten million plus three million will still not be able to make the eighteen million.
So I do believe that we should be able to maintain this loan trust as common to all students so that others who are brilliant and get some scholarship from some other places, it would be appropriate for them. So we should be able to maintain this and make sure that people can still get this in addition to other scholarships they get from outside.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
So are you for or against the amendment?
Mr Darko-Mensah 1:45 p.m.
For the amendment.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Then if you are for the amendment - [Laughter.]
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if I heard the Hon Chairman of the Committee rightly, he is saying that he has abandoned the two amendments captured on page 10, (xxiii) and (xxiv). Is that the position of the Hon Chairman because that is what he said? [Interruption.]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Hon Member, you were not here but listening to the sense of the House, that it should be based on need. So that if you get scholarship from a private source or organization and it is equal or more than the loan, then you are not entitled; you see. So that is then the issue of the private source. Because (a) and (b) of clause 29 have to be read together to get the full import.
The Hon Member for Sekondi and indeed, Prof. Fobih and the Hon Majority Leader think that it should be on the basis of need. And so, if in an organization, even if it is private, they have been able to sponsor you and it is equal to or exceeds the loan, why do you go again for the loan?
So on that basis, they think that even the private source should be added. Some of them think that even the private source should even be added. Some say it should be deleted; others say, it should be kept as it is.
Mrs Catherine A. Afeku 1:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think it should be added or it should be left as it is. We need the private source, especially individuals, to supplement whatever government gives or whatever grant is available and I would support the amendment of letting it stay. The individual sponsors, as an amendment should stay.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I went through the Memorandum to this Bill and I do not see where they are
stressing the “need factor”, even though common sensically, we should agree that indeed, that should be at the pivot.
Unfortunately, in the Memorandum, there is no emphasis on “need” and indeed, if you look at clause 2, the object and functions of the Fund, rather unfortunately, they do not stress “need” and I thought that that is where they should have captured it. If they had, then maybe, as is being postulated then for clause 29 (a), one could say that to the extent that it does not come from public funding, we may make - I am not too sure of the import of this.
Mr Speaker, I looked at article 20 -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
Hon Members, are we Sitting beyond 2 o'clock -- Hon Majority Leader? I am looking at the Speaker's watch in front of me here.
Mr Avoka 1:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, no, not really; we would not Sit beyond 2 o'clock except that it would be useful for us to complete clause 29.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
And that will take us outside the 2 o'clock.
Mr Avoka 1:55 p.m.
Yes, so let me -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
I direct that Sitting be beyond the prescribed period.
Mr Avoka 1:55 p.m.
Very well, so that as soon as we take clause 29 we can adjourn.
All right, thank you.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
Hon Minority Leader, you are on the floor.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just looked at the list of amendments proposed and I realised that there is none of them which seemed to place emphasis on “need” and that is where my fundamental worry is.
Indeed, the reference to articles 28 and 38 of the Constitution, in my view, is completely not well placed.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
To what?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:55 p.m.
Article 28 of the Constitution.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
Article 28 of the Constitution?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:55 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker. This is because that is where I find it wrong. I thought, perhaps, they wanted to refer to article 25 of the Constitution but they are referring us to - that is the pivot of this Memorandum.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
I think that has been -
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:55 p.m.
Referring us to article 28. I do not know -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
Somewhere along the line that has been deleted and it is only article 38 of the Constitution or so, if my memory serves me right.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that is what I am saying. I think we are talking about educational right, how to facilitate educational right and the pivot is on article 25 of the Constitution. Why delete article 25 of the Constitution? If you delete article 28 of the Constitution, you rather should insert article 25 of the Constitution and then leave it as it is because we are talking about educational rights and it is foundationed on article 25 of the Constitution.
Mr Speaker, I think we must really locate this emphasis on need. If we do somewhere in the Bill, then we can appropriately capture clause 29. Otherwise, if we are not able to find space
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
Hon Minority Leader, you see that there is an amendment there to delete article 28 of the Constitution from the Long Title?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that is why I am saying that rather it should refer to article 25 of the Constitution. So if we are deleting clause 28 of the Constitution, which in my view, is appropriate, we should rather have captured article 25 of the Constitution, which is on educational rights.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
I think we have article 38 of the Constitution there; articles 25 and 38 of the Constitution.
Hon Chairman, are you moving? What is the sense of the House? Are we keeping scholarships from “private sources”?
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
Hon Chairman, I will come to you. I want to get the sense of the House. Are we retaining the “private sources” or we are deleting it from the Bill? “The private scholarship” - Are we?
Hon Balado, then the Hon Chairman. I want to get the sense of the House, then I put the Question
Mr Manu 1:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe strongly that we should retain the “private source” because as canvassed by the Hon Member for Takoradi (Mr K. O. Darko- Mensah), we do not have all our students attending public universities. There are others in private universities and other tertiary private institutions where the moneys they pay are far in excess of what Government gives.
So if they get a scholarship of say 10 million old cedis or GH¢1,000 Ghana and their university is taking say, GH¢1,500 and the scholarship is about GH¢800, it means they cannot take the loan. And when they cannot take the loan they cannot pay the fees required of them by their private university or institution. So I believe that the mere fact that one has a scholarship that exceeds what Government will give, should not exclude the person.
We are talking about need; how are we going to assess the need of the individual? What need factors are we going to employ? Is it by where the person lives? East Legon? Or is it because he is coming from Domeabra? How are we going to assess the needs of the students? So please, I think we should play down on “need” for now until the nation is in a position to do proper “need” assessment of the students.
In the absence of that, I would say that let us remove the bar which private source is giving, that if you have scholarship from private source, you cannot benefit. I want us to remove that bar from the Bill.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 1:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this whole Students Loan Trust Fund is driven by need.
I am sure some of us may have had children in tertiary institutions and we may have directed them not to take loans. Why? Because we felt we could finance their education. This idea that everybody who seeks tertiary education must have funding, subsistence funding by the State is something that we should be moving away from.
If you have private funding and you think it is not enough, go to the bank for a loan. That is the point because those - [Interruption.] Mr Speaker, it is not
a republican idea. It is the same in the United Kingdom; it is the same in the United States of America, where they even have students loans.
In the United States of America, you have young graduates working three jobs because they say “We have a lot of loans to pay.” But if you have private funding, why should you deprive someone who has no private funding, and compete with him for the same loan? That is the point.
We have public universities and private universities. It is just like an Hon Member of Parliament, somebody says that, “Oh, I am attending a private university, the fee is US$3,000, please, assist me”, when your own ward who is attending a public university, you do not spend that much on him. So we should appreciate these things. The Fund is limited and in my view if somebody needs even GH¢5,000 to fund himself, it would be better to give that money to him rather than spread it and give three other people who do not have that need.
When we were in the university, and I am sure it is still the same, we had some colleagues who could not even afford to feed themselves ---
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
Did you benefit from the facility that time?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 2:05 p.m.
Oh, I did. At that time, it was general but this time, I would oppose it; it should not be general.
That is the problem we are having in this country; everything is generalized and you have about 95 per cent of students who gained admission into Accra Academy coming from private basic schools where they will be paying about US$1,000
an academic year and they go to Accra Academy and they expect that they should pay 300 a term .
That is the problem we are having in this country So this idea, some people may need more, if you are being funded privately and you need more -- go somewhere else, do not come to the Students Loan Trust. And my argument is buttressed by the Regulations. If you look at the Regulations, it says:
“. . . among others conductive investigations on applicant for the determination of an application.”
Where do you conduct investigations? Yes, if you are living in East Legon in a glass house, your parents have three cars, and you have access even to a car to come to school, then you say you are coming for the loan, you do not need the loan, you will not be given.
Mrs Akosua F. Osei-Opare 2:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I want to put on record that East Legon is being branded as an elite high class. East Legon comprises Okponglo, Bawaleshie, Akplaga, Menpeasem, Shiashie, Abokyeman and all these people are in the lower level of economic status. I want to plead that East Legon is not a homogeneous place, therefore, in case these statements deprive the good people of East Legon, which include Okponglo and Bawaleshie and Menpeasem of the necessary benefits that they should have -- I beg you; please, let us put things in the right perspective.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 2:05 p.m.
Thank you very much. I will not refer to East Legon: [Laughter.] I was not referring to Ayawaso West Wuogon. [Laughter.] Ayawaso West Wuogon comprises Bawaleshie, Okponglo, East Legon. I was referring to East Legon because East Legon is conceded to be a first class residential area. [Interruptions.]
Please, when you talk about Airport residential area, it is a first class residential area; it may be wrong. I am saying this to buttress my point that we should not let those who have other sources of funding have access to this Students Load Trust Fund, that is the point I am making,; yes.
Dr Annan 2:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think, to put things in perspective, let us look at the amounts. Last year, I think it was GH¢380 for a student studying arts and GH¢420-- This year, we have managed to jack it up to about GH¢600 for science students and GH¢500 for an arts student and it is the same for private universities as it is for public universities.
So we are talking about spreading it very thinly and this is going to make a difference to the Hon Members' Colleagues when he was at the university, who could not feed themselves. Now, if we allow those who are already to some extent privileged to have access and sometimes even access over those through connections, who are less privileged, we are running into trouble.
Mr Speaker, let me underscore the point; in the absence of a system of means testing of parents or the guardians, this is the best we can do. Because in the other parts of the world, they have means testing which then the income and property ownership of the parent is taking into account before the student is granted an amount.
We do not have that in this system; we are doing this irrespective of what Hon Minority Leader has said that that does not appear to be too much reference to needs factor, it is really about need, it is about making sure that the less privileged can get access to some very basic and what we are talking about now are relatively small amounts, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
Hon
Members, if this will take a long time, then we have to defer this matter till tomorrow because we do not intend Sitting beyond 2'oclock because no provision has been made for it.
Mr Avoka 2:05 p.m.
I pray that we should just complete clause 29, please, so that we can have our peace of mind. Then if I can just add my contribution in a minute just to buttress what the Hon Member for Sekondi has said and the Hon Deputy Minister.
Mr Speaker, we are talking about equity. Now, somebody having regard to his good background or connections, is able to get a scholarship of GH¢1,000 -- We are in the same school he has secured GH¢1,000 from other source, I have applied to this Fund for the loan and I have got GH¢500 and he is already 50 per cent ahead of me and you say that he should apply again and get GH¢500 and then triple what I have? Where is the equity in this? There is no equity, absolutely.
So it is going to entrench some people to be better off in tertiary education institutions while others will still be ravelling in poverty. That is why if you have sources of funding from elsewhere, particularly from public source, then you do not qualify for this facility again. It is a need factor, it is not just there for people who can pay.
In fact, Hon Papa Owusu-Ankomah said, there are some of us who have our children in tertiary institutions, who I am sure did not apply for the loan. And there are others that some of us are paying loans for them. You all know it; we are paying fees for various people out of sympathy. So I think that the amendment should be dropped and we should retain the provisions as in the Bill.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this argument about equalizing educational opportunities, the equity that the Majority Leader spoke of, is why as I said, we should rather capture article 25 and not article 28 - [Interruptions.]

It is not the Memorandum; apart from the Memorandum, the Long Title, and you want to delete that one? If rather you copied article 25, it is that one that talks about equity and equalizing opportunities. Then of course, equalizing on the need factor will creep in.

Mr Speaker, if you look at article 25 (2) of the Constitution, it provides, and
Mr Speaker, with your permission, I quote 2:05 p.m.
“Every person shall have the right, at his own expense, to establish and maintain a private school or schools at all levels . . .”
The emphasis is on the person doing so at his own expense. So if the person says that, “well, my fees is 3,000” and you opt to go there, who should fund it? Mr Speaker, clearly, we should know the consequences of what we are doing.
Mr Speaker, until and unless we amend this provision in the Constitution, the person going there should know that it entails paying higher fees because the person who has established it has so determined.
That is why I think indeed, what is captured in the amendment, ought to stand, because in my honest opinion, we would be going against the grain of article 25 (2), if we should extend it the way that it is being canvassed. So, Mr Speaker, I think the amendment moved in the name of the Chairman relating to 29 (a) should still hold.
Mr Puozaa 2:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think I need to correct an impression and that is for those who go to the private schools. I do not think that it is really the rich that go there. Most of us here, our children have found their way in the public schools; because they went to good basic schools, they went to good secondary schools and they have found themselves offering best programmes in the universities here. Many of those that we have there really try and they struggle to get the fees to pay.
It is not all the students there that are really well to do. It is rather the poorer chaps who can find anywhere to go - [Interruptions] -- I know all of us here get demands from students in these private institutions. So if we have a point to make, I do not think we should use the private institutions as the main reason to disqualify somebody from getting that. It is rather those who go to the private institutions are those who do not --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
Hon Members, I intend deferring this matter so that we can do more consultation among ourselves, so that when we come back, we can arrive at a certain consensus, because there is sense in all the arguments being canvassed on the floor.
So on that note, the House is accordingly adjourned till tomorrow at ten o'clock in the forenoon.
Thank you very much for your support and co-operation.
ADJOURNMENT 2:05 p.m.
  • The House was adjourned at 12.18 p.m. till Wednesday, 3rd November, 2010 at 10.00 a.m.