Debates of 9 Nov 2010

MADAM SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:40 a.m.
ANNOUNCEMENTS 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon Members, I have the pleasure to introduce to you, Hon Members of the Committee on Government Assurances from the Parliament of Uganda who are on an official visit to Ghana. They are here to share ideas with their counterparts towards making government assurances more effective.
The delegation comprises the following:
Hon Winnifred Kiiza -- Member of Parliament, Leader
of the delegation
Hon Odonga Otto -- Member of Parliament
Hon Mukose Mutaba l i -- Member of Parliament
Hon Peter Omollo -- Member of Parliament
H o n K u b e k e t e r y a J a m e s - - Member of Parliament
Hon Akena Jimmy -- Member of Parliament
Hon Ssinabulya Sylvia - - Member of Parliament
Mrs Alice Mukyasi -- Staff
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon Members, Correction of Votes and Proceedings of Friday, 5th November, 2010.

In the absence of any corrections, the Votes and Proceedings of Friday, 5th November, 2010 is adopted as the true record of proceedings.

We now move on to the Official Report of Wednesday, 3rd November, 2010.

In the absence of any correction, the Official Report of Wednesday, 3rd November, 2010 is adopted as the true record of proceedings.

We move on to Questions.

Hon Leader, is the Hon Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing here?
Mr Cletus A. Avoka 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing is available in the House to answer Questions.
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
The first Question stands in the name of the Hon Member for Offinso North, Mr Augustine Collins Ntim.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 10:50 a.m.
MINISTRY OF WATER 10:50 a.m.
RESOURCES, WORKS AND 10:50 a.m.
HOUSING 10:50 a.m.
Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing (Mr Alban S. K. Bagbin) 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Ministry, through the Water Resources Commission, has initiated a number of policies, programmes and activities to protect the various water bodies in the country. These policies include a National Buffer Zone Policy, promotion of Basin-based Integrated Water Resources Management, public awareness and education programme, water quality monitoring and transboundary co- operation.
National Buffer Zone Policy
Madam Speaker, a National Buffer Zone Policy has been finalized for adoption. It is to guide the creation and management of tree covers on land strips/ areas along open water bodies (river and lakes) in order to restore, conserve and maintain the ecological integrity, and to provide optimal socio-economic benefits of such designated areas.
In the meantime, pilot tree-planting programmes for the restoration of riverbanks are being implemented in selected river basins, such as the Densu and White Volta through supporting NGOs and community-based organizations.
Basin-based Integrated Water Resources Management Activities
Madam Speaker, river basin boards are being set up in river basins to ensure co- ordinated implementation of programmes to address basin-specific water problems. So far, three (3) basin boards (Densu, White Volta and Ankobra) are functioning effectively.
The Dayi River Basin Board has just been set up. Furthermore, two (2) new basin boards are being set up (Pra and Tano basins) to address issues such as pollution that affect the quantity and quality of the basin's water resources.
Local community organizations and NGOs such as the Weija Lake Protection Association are also being identified and encouraged by supporting their activities.
Public Awareness and Education Programmes
Madam Speaker, specific public awareness and education activities being pursued include:
1. Systematic regional workshops targeting assemblymen, women, groups, the media, and traditional authorities (chiefs and queen mothers).
2. Planned training workshops for the judiciary including the police in view of their role in ensuring enforcement of rules and regulations.
3 . D e v e l o p i n g e d u c a t i o n a l documentaries to promote the restoration of the ecological health of the country's water bodies.
4. Mounting of educational billboards with clear messages along major rivers. Examples of such billboards are on the Densu River and you can see them (at Nsawam and Weija).
Compliance and Water Quality
Madam Speaker, the state of water quality is monitored and known at any particular time through the water quality index model. Specific measures are then determined for implementation, and I can talk about Weija Dam which is now heavily polluted.
Youth/students are being trained and
Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing (Mr Alban S. K. Bagbin) 10:50 a.m.


involved in using simple monitoring tool kits. They use the exercise to identify the courses and propose measures for improving the quality of water. They also serve as important agents of change in their communities.

Madam Speaker, every District Assembly is being encouraged to set up water quality monitoring units to assist in policing and implementing activities towards improving the quality of water.

This is what the Ministry is pursuing in

trying as much as possible, to protect the water bodies that we have in the country.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Ntim 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, may I thank the Hon Minister for the kind of elaborate Answer he has given. But if I may refer him to paragraph 4. If I may quote:
rose
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Yes.
Dr A. A. Osei 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I heard some noise and I want to make sure the Speaker is safe.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Well, right now, I think I am safe. I hope you are safe too?
Mr Ntim 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Dayi River Basin Board has just been set up. My question is, how many boards does the Minister intend to establish in order to protect all the water bodies including over a thousand water bodies in Ghana? Is he going to establish about a thousand boards in order to address all these challenges?
Thank you.
Mr Bagbin 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, no,
definitely no! The intention is to establish, I think, just eight basin boards, not more than that.
Mr Ntim 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, if I may refer you to paragraph 8, the Hon Minister has also given an indication that the state of water quality is monitored and known at any particular time through the water quality index. May I find out what is the criterion for this model? We want to be educated.
Mr Bagbin 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, we
have quality standards and there are ways and methods of measuring whether a water resource is polluted, is of the quality that we expect natural water to have or the water quality is improving or deteriorating. So, there are some tool kits that they use to measure this water quality. So, it is talking in terms of potability or otherwise. That is what we are looking at.
Mr Ntim 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister said in his last paragraph , if I may quote:
“Every District Assembly is being encouraged to set up water quality monitoring units to assist in policing and implementing activities towards improving the water quality.”
Madam Speaker, I get seriously alarmed when I hear double policies always being pushed to the various Assemblies when we are aware that the various Assemblies are cash-strapped. As we speak today, the third quarter allocation of last year's budget has not been released, yet every government policy is being pushed.
My question is, how solid is this encouragement policy - is it supported by budget line or logistics? What was the commitment of the Ministry's budget in last year's - what was the commitment to this in last year's budget?
Thank you.
Mr Bagbin 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Ministry is strengthening the decentralized s t ructures including the Distr ic t Assemblies to empower them to be able to respond to the crying needs at the local level. You need to have people on the ground to continue to implement this policy of the buffer zone and the water quality measurements, and the body that is better suited to do that is the District Assemblies.
So what Government is doing is trying to strengthen the works department of the District Assemblies. That has not yet been done but there is the Ministerial realignment and decentralization going on, where, for example, rural housing would be decentralized to the district level. Then you have the Public Works Department (PWD) that would be decentralized to the district level.
Then some other agencies will also go to strengthen the works department of the District Assemblies. The Water Resources Commission is supporting and
strengthening them in terms of logistics and financing to make them capable of responding to the policy needs of the Government in this direction. So this is what is being done. We are not calling on the District Assemblies to apply their Common Fund to this activity. The Ministry is supporting in this direction.
Thank you very much.
Dr Ahmed Y. Alhassan 11 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, I wanted to find out from the Hon Minister whether the integrated approach includes the right against invasive alien species that are consuming our water bodies in particular, the River Daka, the portion in Yendi.
Mr Bagbin 11 a.m.
That is so, Madam Speaker. In fact, we are doing this together with the Ministry of Food and Agriculture, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development and the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning and other related agencies.
We know that it is as a result of farming practices that are getting these nutrients into our water sources and for these kinds of aquatic growth in the river and the lakes that we are having. So we are doing it together with the Ministry and in fact, we are planting economic trees which is what can encourage people to grow them, not just planting, so that they can benefit the community. So we are not just planting only wood trees but economic trees and we are using the youth, particularly, in the second cycle institutions to support the implementation of the programme.
Ms Shirley A. Botchway 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I will like to find out from the Hon Minister what kind of support his Ministry is giving to NGOs. I can see there is no problem when it comes to support for the District Assemblies. I am worried about NGOs springing up,
Mr Bagbin 11 a.m.
The Min is t ry i s collaborating with the NGOs; we have a lot of NGOs in the water sector. The last count took us to about 60 NGOs; we recently had a water forum where the NGOs attended and we managed to get them to form a group called Collation of NGOs in Water and Sanitation (CONIWAS) and they are working together with the various agencies and the Ministry and we are monitoring their activities.
The NGOs' are very helpful because they are filling in the gap and we need to build the capacity of some of the NGOs; we need to support them logistically and we need to redirect their attention to the essential areas and the areas best suited for NGOs operation. So we are working together now and there is some harmony and co-ordination going on in the water sector.
Mr Haruna H. Bayirga 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in the Hon Minister's Answer, I was happy to note that the Densu River Basin Board has been formed but as of now, there is a lot of pollution going on at the Densu River Basin. And as we know, it is the Densu River that supplies potable water to the southern part of Accra. What really would the Hon Minister do -- I know he has explained a lot of things but practically, it is not working on the ground. What would he do to make sure that the pollution ceases or at least, is minimized?
Mr Bagbin 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, there is heavy pollution along the Densu River which is directly affecting the quality of
water at the Weija dam. The Ministry, together with its other agencies are very well aware of this. Madam Speaker, one of the instruments we are using is what I stated here, public awareness and education that are ongoing. People are getting to know the effect of their actions and inactions.
But Madam Speaker, this takes a bit more time than anticipated because we need to give them alternative livelihood and we also need to work together with Town and Country Planning Department and other agencies to make sure that we sanitise our construction industry. So we have a lot of, not only car-washing bases but workshops sited along streams and river beds and these are all polluting our water sources, not to talk about the galamsey operators.
The Ministry is, as much as possible, trying to change the attitude and behaviours of fellow Ghanaians, so that we can do away with some of these activities and we also know the effect and impact. As we keep on polluting the water sources, we need more chemicals, more work, therefore, more expenses in trying to produce potable water for Ghanaians and that might lead to increases in tariff which we do not want as a people, to be called upon to pay.
So that is one of the effective instruments we are using but there are a lot more to be done in that direction and I agree with you that the pollution is still ongoing and we have to stop it.
Mr Asamoah Ofosu 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I would want to ask the Hon Minister what his Ministry is doing to avert the further diversion and re-diversion of the Birim River and the active mining in the river

and its course, which has polluted the water to the extent that we are told the security agencies have been involved in protecting the people who are mining in the river. There was a clash between the concerned youth for the protection of the water bodies in which five people have sustained bullet wounds and are receiving medical attention at the Kibi Government Hospital.
Mr Bagbin 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Ministry is fully aware of the illegal or unlawful and atrocious activities of the galamsey operators along our rivers and even in the water. They are very well fortified and they resist all attempts by the security agencies to stop them from operating the way they are doing now.
Sometimes, there are threats even to the lives of the staff of the Ministry and its agencies. We are aware of that. But together with the security agencies and the Ministry of Lands and Forestry, we are trying as much as possible, not just to educate them but to provide alternative employment opportunities.
If we are not able to move the people away to gainful employment, it becomes almost impossible to stop them from the illegal mining that they are doing. It is like a matter of life and death and they are prepared to fire and they are prepared to do anything to even eliminate people who try to stop them. So that is one of the menace that we are faced with, particularly, in the Western Region and we are trying as much as possible to contain it but it is still not contained.
Mr Albert K. Zigah 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Question reads: “. . .various water bodies.” Water is also obtained from boreholes and wells. May I know from the Hon Minister what effort his Ministry is putting in place to address boreholes
and wells?
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon Minister, do
you need a repetition of the question?
Mr Bagbin 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Question is on the preservation of water bodies. I do not know whether the Question is talking about how we can preserve the underground water or - This is because borehole is a different thing altogether.
The country is blessed with abundance of water. We have surface water; we have underground water and we have sea and we have heavy annual rains. But there are so many areas in the country that you cannot rely on underground water. Therefore, in some areas, particularly along the coast and the mining areas and in Upper East Region, you cannot rely on borehole water because of the salinity and the contamination by other fluorides and substances.
So, yes, sometimes, in some areas, we rely on borehole water because the water there can be made potable but in many areas, we do not rely on borehole water.
Prof Christopher Ameyaw-Akumfi 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I heard the Hon Minister talk at length about vegetation intended to protect the water bodies. How about the silt that has accumulated in various water bodies over the years?
Indeed, this has been the main cause of drying up of river bodies and there have to be pragmatic measures to deal with the silt as we try and improve on the vegetation cover.
What measures have been put in place?
Mr Bagbin 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, a lot is being done in that area. We would realise that part of the flooding is caused by heavy siltation of our water courses and the
Mr Bagbin 11:10 a.m.


Volta River in particular is heavily silted in some areas between Akosombo and the Accra-Aflao road. Some are just two feet, three feet deep and therefore, the water just flows outside the banks and flood the areas together with the problems we have at the estuaries.

Therefore, there is a programme to try and desilt the water bodies. We recently signed an agreement with a company called Solaqua which is coming in with heavy equipment to desilt most of the rivers and waters and the dams that we are using for our purpose. We expect to commence come next year and Hon Members will see some action, maybe, in their constituencies. We expect that they would draw our attention to the activities of companies, if there are some other negative impacts that they are causing in the various areas.

But we have taken that on and the company is trying to use the quality sand that is deposited there for other purposes. I think that there is not much cost to Government in that direction because we are doing that in exchange. They are interested in that quality sand and we are interested in desilting our water courses. So we have entered into an agreement to do that.
Mr Charles S. Hodogbey 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my question to the Hon Minister is, the Lower Volta Basin where my constituency is, there is silting and weeds are taking over the river. Besides, with the spillover of the water from the Akosombo Dam recently, the water has been polluted so much. Already there is prevalence of bilharzias and other water- borne diseases.
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Question, please.
Mr Hodogbey 11:10 a.m.
I would like to know from the Hon Minister, since my people
do not have pipe-borne water and the water has been so polluted, what effort is he making to alleviate their problem?
Mr Bagbin 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, luckily, his people have borehole water. We know, most of the boreholes along the flooded area are contaminated and therefore, there is a programme to clean up the boreholes, disinfect them and make them potable. But the desilting that we are talking about includes his area and we are also going to work on the lagoon, both along the Ada and the one around Prampram to allow easy flow of water into the sea so that you do not have stagnation of water there to cause the waterborne disease that he is talking about, such as bilharzias.
So that contract has already been awarded and we think that from next year, the work would commence and if that is completed, it would improve the health situation in his constituency.
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
The last question and then we move to the next.
Mr Justice J. Appiah 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, looking at the Answer the Hon Minister gave -
“. . .the state of water quality is monitored and known at any particular time through the water quality index model. Specific measures are then determined for implementation.”
Madam Speaker, the Densu River is very salty these days. Apart from the pollution, it is very salty. What is the Ministry doing to address this situation?
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon Minister, if
you can answer it. It deals with water. If you can answer it, it will help us.
Mr Bagbin 11:20 a.m.
The Question has now been turned into a general Question on water; that is why I referred to salinity, and I said the coastal areas are seriously affected by the salt content in the water; it is quite heavy. What is done there is the use of chemicals in trying to process the water from Weija. We have not been able to try to prevent that salinity along the Densu River. When the water collects at Weija, the treatment includes the elimination of that salt content to make it potable.
But that is why the taste of water from Weija is different from the water from Kpong. The chemicals that are used in treating the water from Weija are quite heavy and there is more pollution in the Weija water than in the Kpong water.
Mr Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu -- rose
-- 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Yes, let us move to the next Question. We have four more Questions.
The next Question, Hon Asamoah Ofosu, Member of Parliament for Kade: -- are we apportioning time to the Questions? You still have not come back to me -- Hon Leaders of the House -- with how we manage Questions. Do we just take Questions and then when one hour is over we stop or do I try to apportion time? Anyway, let us hear the Hon Member, it is time we did that and then we know what we do here --
Minority Leader, I did not see you earlier.
Mr Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I did not know that we had to -
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Well, I put it to you that advise me, we want to increase the
Question time to two hours. I will abide and do your wish -
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, we can meet and discuss. I know that Standing Order 60 (2) provides you some latitude to go beyond the one hour. But we will meet with you.
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
I will be happy to meet with you too. Kindly put your question.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing, answering questions on the potability of water, is manifestly seen to be drinking Voltic Water -- bottled water. It is an interesting observation; it tells how he has made water potable and drinkable, if he is drinking Voltic water.
Madam Speaker, the question to ask the Hon Minister is, he has told us that they are so far going to put in place eight basin boards; he said so, that he intends so far, the total to be eight. I am asking why the number eight for the basin boards? Why the number eight?
Mr Bagbin 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, clearly, the use of Voltic water for the Hon Minister is not starting today and I believe it is one of convenience. I am not the first Hon Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing. It is one of convenience; you cannot carry tap water here in a container, that will give surety that it is not contaminated. This is well preserved; this is potable and we have about 12 per cent of Ghanaians now depending on Voltic water, including Hon Hackman Owusu- Agyemang. [Laughter.]
rose
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Hon Member, well, since your name was mentioned, I will -
Mr Albert Kan-Dapaah 11:20 a.m.
Unnecessary provocation. [Laughter.]
Mr Owusu-Agyemang 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my nephew there, the Hon Minister -- indeed, when I was in the Ministry of the Water Resources, Works and Housing, I bought a carton of this water and one of them contained a cockroach -- it is in the Hon Minister's office, so what is he talking about? There was a cockroach in the Voltic water and I called the Managing Director. He came there, there was a cockroach in it. So, how safe are we? It is a fact and Hon Cecilia Dapaah was there.
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
So you are correcting him or what -- that it is clean? Hon Minister?
Mr Bagbin 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, when he was the Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing, he was manufacturing cockroaches in Voltic water [Laughter.] No, I am not doing that as the Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing.
Mr Owusu-Agyemang 11:20 a.m.
No, I did not do that I said when I bought the water, there was a cockroach in it. I did not manufacture the water. For Christ sake, I do everything in Ghana now. I do not manufacture water. I bought it and it was in it.
Mr Bagbin 11:20 a.m.
Well, just on the lighter side, I know that might be contamination after production or during the course of production. But definitely, we have all been misled to believe that water in this type of containers whether sachet water or bottled water seems to be more potable than the tap water. That is not actually true. But I think it is one of convenience
that Parliament has employed and it will be good that we move away from it I will encourage that we move away from it to use the tap water instead of the bottled water.
But as I was saying, the number eight is not any magic number; it is as a result of the mapping out of the river courses that we have in the country. It is just an administrative number that the Water Resources Commission, together with our neighbours, those riparian countries using the Volta River with us are together establishing these basins to manage the water recourses and try to protect and preserve them and conserve them for today's generation and generations of the future. So there is nothing magical about it.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister is aware that if you talk about a river basin, of course, the question is even about water bodies which may include other water bodies other than rivers. Madam Speaker, a river basin refers to all streams, rivers which drain into a major river that empties into the sea. That is the river basin, including the catchment area of all rivers and streams that empty into the major river that then empties into the sea.
M a d a m S p e a k e r , w i t h t h a t understanding and the Hon Minister is nodding profusely, he agrees with this -- that being the case, why have you set up a basin board for White Volta and for Dayi River because Dayi empties into the Volta, so it is part of the Volta Basin. Why has it become necessary to do that?
Mr Bagbin 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, we are
talking about basin boards; part could be river basin boards and part could be a lake basin board.
Now, if you look at the River Volta, there is the need for effective oversight and management of the board to break it down into units. So we are not only going to form the White Volta, there will also be a Black Volta Basin - [Interruptions] -- No red, only two; white and black. And we thought it better to - there is a Red Volta but it will not have a basin. We thought it better to break down this into the Dayi River Basin Board. So, it is just administrative convenience.
We have Kumasi Metropoli tan Assembly (KMA) and KMA is broken down into sub-metros and some of the sub-metros are more powerful than KMA. So, it is true. It is just for purposes of administration and making sure that we are effective in trying to carry out the objectives of the programme.
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Let us move on
to the next Question. Once again, Hon Asamoah Ofosu, a Question refers to you but you chose a written reply and you have -
Mr Asamoah Ofosu 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I requested for a written Answer and I have received it.
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
In which case, in
accordance with Standing Order 64(4), the Clerks Office has duly communicated in writing to you and I am hereby directing that the Answer to that Question be printed in the Official Report of today's proceedings.
WRITTEN ANSWERS TO 11:30 a.m.
Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing (Mr Alban. S. K. Bagbin) 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, Kade Water Supply System is handled by the Ghana Water Company Limited under the Urban Water Programme. It is based on groundwater.
The installed capacity of the existing plant is 220 m3/day which does not meet the current water demand. Water is currently being rationed to serve the town. In the short term, GWCL is to drill two boreholes and as part of the Subsequent Year Investment Programme (SYIP), 8 more boreholes are to be drilled to meet the current demand of 2,300m3/day. Plans are far advanced to award a contract to execute the Subsequent Year Investment Programme (SYIP) in January 2011.
After the completion of the SYIP, the people of Kade will enjoy an uninterrupted potable water supply.
ORAL ANSWERS TO 11:30 a.m.
QUESTIONS 11:30 a.m.
MINISTRY OF WATER 11:30 a.m.
RESOURCES, WORKS AND 11:30 a.m.
HOUSING 11:30 a.m.
Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing (Mr Alban. S. K. Bagbin) 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Kassena- Nankana West District capital, Paga, has been provided with a small town water system. It was handed over to the Water and Sanitation Development Board of Paga in April, 2010. The system has a
Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing (Mr Alban. S. K. Bagbin) 11:30 a.m.


borehole which supplies 24 standpipes and household connections. The system is reliable. However, in the near future, the old water tank will be rehabilitated to meet future demands.
Mr Alowe 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, it appears to me that the Hon Minister has not addressed my Question adequately. The Question is:
“To ask the Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing when the Kassena-Nankana West District, with Paga as the capital …”
Kassena-Nankana West District is made up of seven paramountcies; we have Kayoro, Katiu, Chiana, Paga, Nakon, Mirigu, Sirigu, Kandiga. So the Question is not just referring to Paga - Paga is the capital of the district. But the Question is referring to the whole district. Could the Hon Minister please, come again?
Mr Bagbin 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon
Member asked two Questions. This is the first one, the second one deals with the whole region. This first one, the Question that was submitted to me at the Ministry is this:
“To ask the Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing when the Kassena-Nankana West District capital at Paga, will be provided with a reliable water supply system.”
That is the first Question and that is what I answered. What is on the Order Paper is not what was submitted to me. And it is here. I have a copy of it. It talks clearly about when the district capital at Paga would be provided with a reliable water supply system. That is what was submitted to me.
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Hon Member, there
is another Question; we have not come to it; it will deal with the districts.
Mr Alowe 11:30 a.m.
What is on the Order Paper, that is what I submitted.
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
This one deals with
the capital and the next Question which he will be putting deals with the Upper East Region.
Mr Alowe 11:30 a.m.
No, please. The next Question does not deal adequately with it.
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Can we finish this
Question then? The Question numbered 655, is it not the Question?
Mr Alowe 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the
Question on the Order Paper, which is what I asked is the one that I am expecting the Hon Minister to respond to, and he is responding to only the aspect relating to the capital, Paga. And I am saying that, Kayoro, Katiu, Nakon, Mirigu, Kandiga have no water systems.
So, I wanted to find out, the whole district, what steps were being taken to provide reliable water supply.
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Because you did
not spell it out in your Question, let us ask him if he can help us. You are right that the Kassena-Nankana West District may have some of these names you have listed but it did not appear in your Question. So, Hon Minister, let us see if you can help us with -- because he says Kassena-Nankana West District, with Paga as the capital. So he is saying that what about other areas in the district, if you know it.
Mr Bagbin 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, there is a
problem of communication here. Because what I got actually focused on Paga as the district capital and his next Question talked about the whole region. And I know that in the Answer that I am going to give about the whole region will cover
Kassena-Nankana West District, which is part of the region. So, I zoned first on the district capital Paga and then the second leg deals with the whole region.
So, if he is now talking about the district and not the district capital, then he has to resubmit his Question and we will bring the appropriate Answer.
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Any other question
on the main starred Question 655, then we shall move to the next one?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:30 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, with respect, I believe this is a very serious mix-up that we need to address -
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Hon Member, it
is not a mix-up at all. If you read the two Questions -- Questions 655 and 656, they are from the same questioner. One deals with Kassena-Nankana West District with Paga as its capital, and the second one which has not come deals with drinking water in the Upper East Region, and he has not answered that Question.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:40 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, for the avoidance of doubt, the mix-up is this. The Hon Member who asked the Question insists that the Question as appears on the Order Paper as Question No. 655 is the Question that he asked and it relates to the entire district. The Hon Minister is saying that the Question that was communicated to him is differently stated and that it refers only to the district capital, which is Paga. And so clearly, the two cannot be the same. That is why I am saying that it appears there is a mix-up somewhere.
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
So Hon Minister, what was the Question that was referred to you? Is it not the same as appeared on 655? Is it not?
Mr Bagbin 11:40 a.m.
Well, Madam Speaker,
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Yes, I think he said he got a different Question.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, exactly what I am saying. I think we must find a way to avoid such future mix-ups. The reason being that, increasingly these days, we are beginning to see Members asking Questions and the Questions not being marked with asterisks, which may mean that Members are asking for the Answer to be printed just in the Hansard and not meant for oral delivery at plenary.
Madam Speaker may recall that on occasions, these matters have cropped up and Hon Members have insisted that they have sought Oral response to such Questions. I believe that we can have a way about it if, maybe, before transmission of Questions that are admitted by Madam Speaker, the Leadership would be made aware so that these things could be streamlined. Other than a Member getting up at plenary to insist that: “My Question, I thought I had requested for Oral response” This is one of such because clearly, the Question that was submitted to the Hon Minister is different from the Question that
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Yes, I agree with you and if it is of any help, normally, we have the main Question that was asked in the handwriting of the questioner here. Normally, when there is a dispute, we call for it. But that will be between the Leaders as to how to proceed from here and you can always go and find the original Question with the questioner's handwriting there. So that would help in your deliberations, I think.
rose
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member, I think he says you should send another Question with those towns. Is it not what you are saying? And that he would come and answer them. If you do not have any other question, can we move to your next Question then? Have you got any other question on 655? You have? You have three questions; I think you have had one question. So you have two more. Do you want to ask --
Mr Alowe 11:40 a.m.
I want to ask the next Question.
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Yes, do that.
Reliable Water Supply Systems (Upper East Region)
Q. 656. Mr Leo Kabah Alowe asked the Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing when a reliable water supply system would be put in place to address the need for good drinking water in the Upper East Region.
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Yes, Hon Minister, it is the next Question; I think he moved to the next Question. So can we have an Answer then?
Mr Alban S. K. Bagbin 11:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, water supply in the Upper East Region is insufficient. The water supply facilities in the region depend on both surface and groundwater sources, hence the challenges of reliability.
The Upper East Region has an urban water coverage of 41 per cent. This is provided by water systems in Bolgatanga, Navrongo and Bawku.
There are however, small town water systems at Bazua, Sumburugu, Garu, Tempani, Binaba, Kusanaba, Tongo, Denugu, Bongo, Davorga, Chiana, Zebila, Sandema, Paga, Sirigu, Fumbisi and Wiaga. A number of boreholes at various villages and communities complete the rural water coverage as at 2009 to 59.19 per cent. Binduri small town water system is still under construction. There are plans to rehabilitate the existing boreholes and drill additional ones.
Madam Speaker, in the long-term, funding is being sourced from the ORIO programme of the Netherlands to develop a water supply project for the Upper East Region. The feasibility phase is currently being undertaken by Witteven and Bos Engineers of The Netherlands which will eventually lead to the construction of a new water supply scheme with the water source from the Tono Dam.
Madam Speaker, the grant agreement has been signed and the feasibility study is to take six months. The project will take two years to complete.
Mr Alowe 11:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, may I further find out from the Hon Minister, whether or not the grant that he is referring to in his response is going to be adequate to
give reliable -- adequate water supply to the Upper East Region and for that matter, I am asking whether urban water, we are going to be having 100 per cent and rural water supply, 100 per cent.
Mr Bagbin 11:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the programme of Government is to give 100 per cent coverage by the year 2025 and therefore, this one is there to answer his question of reliability, not hundred per cent coverage. And so, we are going to put in place a reliable system that would make available potable water to the whole region. But that would not give hundred per cent coverage.
Mr Alowe 11:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I would like to further observe and to find out -- the Hon Minister has indicated that eventually, a new water system for the Upper East Region would be constructed with the water source being the Tono Dam. Incidentally, he has not mentioned the Vea Dam. When we talk of dams in the Upper East Region, then we have to be talking about Tono and Vea and if adequate water has to be supplied, I would expect that we should be doing something about both dams. What has he to say about that, Madam Speaker, for the adequate supply without Vea Dam?
Mr Bagbin 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I am
aware of the existence of the Vea Dam. I am also aware of the programme to tap the water in the Vea Dam for use as potable water supply in the region. But the arrangement to do that has not yet been completed and that is why I did not talk about the Vea Dam. There is a Spanish facility that is going to support us to do that but that is not yet on board and that is why I have not mentioned it.
Mr Alowe 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in the
Hon Minister's response, he did indicate and I quote the paragraph 3 of Answer 656:
“There are small town water

systems at Bazua, Sumburugu, Garu Tempani, Binaba Kusanaba, Tongo, Denugu, Bongo, Davorga, Chiana, Zebila, Sandema, Papa, Sirigu, Fumbisi and Wiaga. A number of boreholes at various villages and communities complete the rural water coverage as at 2009 to 59.19 per cent.”

I want to find out, the loan that he is getting, to what extent is he going to advance this coverage of rural water and urban water? Because he has indicated that by 2009, the coverage for rural water is 41per cent and that for urban water, is 59. So the grant that he is getting, how is it going to advance reliable water supply in the Upper East Region as far as those statistics are concerned?

Thank you.
Mr Bagbin 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the
question is not too clear but I heard him talk about how this project is going to advance the rural water coverage in the region. Am I correct?
Yes, definitely, the project in question has rural water element. You are tapping water from the Tono Dam and you are targeting the major towns and as you go along to the towns, there are villages along the way and you have to provide them with water. But that will still be under rural water and so, that is also going to improve the rural water coverage in the region.
But as I told you, it is not going to give it a hundred per cent. The figure I gave is at the end of December 2009. We have not yet factored this year's activities -- provision of potable water in the region into this figure. I am sure by the end of this year, a number of boreholes that are being put in place would have improved the situation. We are aware, and I am sure he is also aware of the problem of the underground water in the region; it is so contaminated with fluoride that you cannot rely on it for a good source of drinking water.
So, we want to use the two dams, the Vea and the Tono, but this one is dealing
Mr Alowe 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I think
the question I was trying to ask is, if right now, we have 41 per cent of urban water coverage for the Upper East Region and 59 per cent of rural water coverage, what I am trying to find out is, the grant for which signed agreement and for which feasibility studies are being done and work would be completed in two years, what percentage increase over these figures are we going to have that will tell us how much it is going to affect urban water supply and rural water supply?
Mr Bagbin 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I
will not be in the position to tell now because we do not even know the current percentage coverage. What I gave you is at the end of December, 2009. Before the commencement of the project, we will be able to tell the current situation and then looking at the scope of works and the volume of water to produce, we will be able to factor that in and try to now project the coverage for the region. But we have not reached there yet and I do not want to mislead my Colleague.
Thank you very much.
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
We move to the next Question then. Hon Joseph Nikpe Bukari (Saboba).
Q. 657 Mr Joseph Nikpe Bukari asked the Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing what plans the Ministry had towards providing potable drinking water for the following communities in the Saboba District:
(i) Wapuli
(ii) Samboli
(iii) Sanguli.
Mr A.S.K. Bagbin 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, records available at the Northern Regional office of Community Water and Sanitation Agency (CWSA) indicate that the three (3) communities are already covered by potable water supply. The number of boreholes in the three communities are as follows:
Given t he popu la t i on o f t he communities, the water needs of these villages have not been fully met by CWSA standards. Wapuli and Sambuli
are candidate towns for piped water supply system while Sanguli would require an additional borehole.
The Ministry is currently implementing the Northern Region Small Town Water Project (NORST) targeted mainly at the eastern corridor of Northern Region where
Saboba District is located. Accordingly, Wapuli and Sambuli are candidates only if they apply through the District Assembly since it is a demand driven project.
Thank you very much.
Mr Bukari 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, from
TABLE - PAGE 4 11.50 A.M.
the 2009 trial census, the population of Sanguli stood at 921. I want to know from the Hon Minister whether with this population, the community qualifies for the small town water project or not and if not, will three (3) boreholes be enough or sufficient for them?
Mr Bagbin 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the
standards that we use is that a population of 300 is entitled to one (1) borehole and so 921 is a little above three (3) boreholes but that is the proposal now. And my Hon Colleague could likely support us in that direction by providing an additional borehole.
The other villages, as I said, are candidates for the NORST project and they are likely to benefit but they would have to apply through the District Assembly. But that is what we have and we say that nobody should move or travel more than five hundred metres (500 m) to the source of potable drinking water and that is what we are working at.
Mr Bukari noon
Madam Speaker, towards the tail end of the Hon Minister's Answer, which reads -
“Wapuli and Sambuli are candidates only if they apply through the District Assembly since it is a demand- driven project.”
I want to inform the Hon Minister that both communities have already applied to the Assemblies and I am aware the District Assembly has also forwarded its applications to the Northern Region Small Town Water Project. I want to know from him, with this information, when or how soon will those communities benefit from good potable drinking water?
Mr Bagin noon
Madam Speaker, I do not have the implementation details but the intention is to dig three thousand boreholes and thirty small town water systems at the eastern corridor of the Northern Region. So until I get the programme, I will not know where they are going to start, which
Mr Bukari noon
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister again admits in his Answer that Sanguli will require additional borehole. I want him to be specific whether the Ministry has already considered or will consider providing that borehole.
Mr Bagbin noon
Madam Speaker, I do not have that information.
Thank you.
Madam Speaker noon
Hon Bukari, have you finished with your three questions?
Mr Bukari noon
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister said the criterion was that, 300 people in a community would qualify for a borehole. Will he be gracious enough to tell us the minimum number required for a community to qualify for small community water project? The minimum population in a community.
Mr Bagbin noon
Madam Speaker, the minimum we are applying is 2,000. The figure we use is just because the Ghana Water Company Limited had to cede a number of its systems to the Community Water and Sanitation Agency when it was incorporated -- converted from a corporation to a company and that increased the number, but we realized that the boreholes were not sufficient for larger villages. So the figure was reduced from 5,000 to a minimum of 2,000. And that is why I said those towns stood to benefit from the small town water projects.
Madam Speaker noon
Question time is up and we move on to the next item which will be Statements. I have not admitted any Statement for today. So we move to the Commencement of Public Business and the First Deputy Speaker will take over.
Hon Minister, I was not going to leave

Thank you very much for coming to answer our Questions. You are discharged.
12.05 p.m.-- MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr Isaac K. Asiamah noon
Mr. Speaker, I am on my feet.
Mr First Deputy Speaker noon
At the Commencement of Public Business.
Hon Member, under what -
Mr I. K. Asiamah Mr Speaker, I come under Order 53 (1) (t) and Order 79 (6) of our Standing Orders.
Mr First deputy Speaker noon
What does the Order say?
Mr I. K. Asiamah noon
Order 53 (1) (t) Half Hour Motions and then Order 79 (6) says “No notice shall be given orally in the House, but a Member may orally inform the House of his intention to raise a matter on a Half Hour Motion.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker noon
Hon Member, I told you the last time that you should see me. The point is that you have to read that provision of the Standing Orders with other provisions of the Standing Orders. The power for admitting Motions is reserved for the Chair of this House and I have to see the terms of the Motion that you are talking about for me to know whether at the end of the day, it is admissible. So you have to read those Orders that you are quoting together with admissibility of Motions. So you do not only quote those ones.
I asked you to see me, hoping that when you come, I will get the terms of the Motion that you have to raise -- you are a Member of this House, nobody can prevent you from moving any Motion,
provided it is within the rules. So I expect you to make the terms of the Motion available and then we pick it up from there.
Mr I. K. Asiamah noon
Mr Speaker, what is here is not what you are saying.
Mr First Deputy Speaker noon
Hon Member, once I am on this seat, I will make the ruling. If my ruling is wrong, you challenge me on a substantive Motion.
Mr Cletus A. Avoka noon
Mr Speaker, we will take item 5 - Laying of Papers.
With your kind permission, I want to plead that we permit the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning who has been doing business with us to lay the Papers on behalf of his Minister, who is not available in the House now. I understand he is having some meeting in the Castle on an urgent matter.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, unfortunately, I was not following the two events which have gone by - Laying of Papers, item number 5. All right. But Mr Speaker, I think you have made reference to the declaration of intent by an Hon Colleague as covered by Standing Order 79(6). I am not too sure whether it was the Order that he was quoting. [Interruption.] Yes, I said I was not really following it but if I caught the tail rightly, Mr Speaker has made a ruling on that and not to challenge Mr Speaker's ruling, but I think that we should look at the language and tenure of that construction.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Hon Minority Leader, last week, the Hon Member raised the issue; I asked him

to see me on dealing with Half-Hour Motions. I thought that I would just look at the terms of the Motion and then we pick it up from there. He never did; I have never seen any Motion. Now, he got up again and he was talking about some Half-Hour Motions.

The point is that when the Chair makes a ruling, the Chair may be right or wrong, but the proper procedure, if one disagrees, is to come by a substantive Motion to challenge the ruling. If we do not follow the rules of this House, we would never - this House would definitely degenerate.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with respect to you and to the Chair, this is not to go back on that at all but I think that that is why I said, maybe, we need all of us, particularly Leadership to confer on this matter. This is because there appears to be some ambivalence in some of the provisions. For instance, if you look at Standing Order 64(1), it provides that --
“A Question shall not be asked without notice unless it is of an urgent character relating either to a matter of public importance or the arrangement of business, and by prior leave of Mr. Speaker.”
Mr Speaker, what it means is that an Urgent Question may not have to be advertised. I have always insisted on this but various interpretations have been given.
Again, going to the pith of the matter -- because Madam Speaker has the responsibility to admit Questions. So it is a dicey matter and I think it also applies to Motions, that in the context may be deemed to be urgent, which is why I said that, maybe, we need as a House to come to some understanding on it.
You are right when you say that, “can we confer on that”? And I believe my
distinguished Colleague is also right in applying to the letter of that provision but you are right as the presiding person. If you make a ruling, which does not sit well with an Hon Member, the Hon Member can only challenge it by a substantive Motion. I think it is a grey area that as a House, we have to confront.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Hon Minority Leader, I entirely agree with you but that is why when the Hon Member raised the matter last week about Half- Hour Motion, I thought that when we confer - when we do so, the Leaders would be involved in that process.
But if you look at Standing Order 54(1), the Half-Hour Motions have to be placed on the Order Paper. So it is not like one would get up and say one wants to move a Half-Hour Motion, and that ends the matter. If you look at Standing Order 54(1), you have to place it on the Order Paper.
So it clearly shows that somebody has to admit it, see it and can declare the intention. But then the Chair must see the terms of that and then you go to the Table Office and then they put it on the Order Paper, if you look at Standing Order 54(1). So Hon Minority Leader --
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I entirely agree with you except as I am saying, if you apply the rule on Urgent Questions, that is the need for it to be advertised or not; it may also apply to Urgent Motions, in particular, when they are Half-Hour Motions. But as I said, I do not want to challenge that one and I think there is the need to further confer on the matter and move the Business of this House forward.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Thank you very much. But the second leg of the submission by the Hon Majority Leader

is to seek leave of the House for the Hon Deputy Minister to lay Papers on behalf of the Minister for Finance and Economic Planning.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, you will notice that of late, the substantive Minister has been finding ways not to make himself available in the House. But I do know that the Hon Deputy Minister is in control of facts at the Ministry, and so, if he has to hold the fort for the substantive Minister, we may not have any issues even though I know that on one occasion when he made a commitment, the Hon Minister had to come and “unmake” that commitment. [Laughter.]
PAPERS 12:10 p.m.
Mr Fritz F. Baffour 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Paper, 5(i) on the Order Paper, it says “10 educative mobile units . . .” There is no word in English as “educative,” so it should be “educational” or something; “educative” is not a word.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Very well. Table Office to take note of that.
Dr Matthew O. Prempeh 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I heard your second referral to only the Finance Committee but it was agreed at the Committee on Health meeting, when the Ministry of Health came, that they would prefer us to -- because they themselves have not -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Hon Member, I am not a member of your Committee and the Hon Minority Leader - Hon Member, please, sit down.
Hon Member, the Hon Minority Leader made a special application in the Speaker's Lobby for that item to be referred to the joint Committee and I thought that he made a case and that is why I referred that one --
My understanding was that it is in relation to the item 5 (i) on the Order Paper.
Hon Members, if you look strictly at the Standing Orders, you will find out that it is for the Finance Committee; the matter is for the Finance Committee. But when the Hon Minority Leader made the point, I thought that it should be favourably considered and that is why I made it the joint --
Hon Majority Leader, what do you say?
Mr Avoka 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I agree
entirely with you.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with respect, when I made the application, it was in respect of the two; the reason being that I thought it was the Committee on Health that would be able to give us the state of the various projects since they have been tracking those projects, so they could advise the Finance Committee.
Mr Speaker, I thought it was a very harmless request and I made that request in respect of the two committees, so they do not come back and maybe, go back to do proper diligence on the work. I think the Committee on Health could assist the Finance Committee in this.
Mr Avoka 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this is a purely Loan Agreement. It is not to construct or to procure the equipment per se; so we do not need the Health Committee to join the Finance Committee on this matter.
I think that we are over-stretching the role or the need for joint committees to undertake some of these assignments. It is a purely Loan Agreement meant for the Finance Committee.
If you look at it, there is no need for the Committee on Health to be there to advise on how to procure the loan or whether the loan is good or not. No, it is a purely financial matter.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think my Hon Colleague, the Majority Leader does not understand the issue that I am talking about. It is not purely financial. Mr Speaker, if he has read the Agreement, -- it says:
“Loan Facility Agreement between the Government of Ghana and
General Capital Corporation of the United States of America of the amount of three hundred million Euros (€300,000,000.00) to finance the completion . . .”
That is the construction of health facilities, capital projects and a request for tax and duty exemptions.
Mr Speaker, if we were talking strictly on tax and duty exemptions, I would not have had anything against that. But this is for the completion of projects that have been started and I am saying that because the Committee on Health has been tracking these facilities, they are in a better position to advise the Finance Committee. I am not even talking about us at plenary. So if their advice fits into the Finance Committee, I do not see what broth that it spoils.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Hon Members, this should not be a difficulty. The advice I received from the Table Office a long time ago, is that when we make the joint referral, it is very difficult getting a quorum because they have to get members of both Committees. But when the Hon Minority Leader made the application in respect to this one this morning in the Speaker's Lobby, I thought that I should accede to the request. To be very honest, I did not know that it extended to the second one.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is even in respect of the second one --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
So should I withdraw the first one? And then --
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that is even more relevant. As I said, I do not even see the problem at all in this matter.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Hon Members, yes, let me hear the last from Hon Majority Leader and then I will -- [Pause.] Oh! Yes, Hon Member?
Alhaji Mohammed-Munbarak Mutaka 12:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in that single meeting that the item 5 (i) will be discussed, both could be discussed. It is not going to be a lengthy meeting that will warrant that they will meet several times on the first one, such that if they are in a meeting, when they have just finished discussing the first one, then they walk out for the second one to be discussed.
I think that for convenience -- and in
this particular instance, I do not think it is going to create any additional problem. So maybe, looking at our Standing Orders, we may try and find a lasting solution to this. I honestly think that if we could get the Chairpersons and the Ranking Members to sit to assist the Committee on Finance, it could help. But for now, once we have referred the first one to both Committees in that single meeting, they could discuss the second one and I think that it should not be something that we should be dragging.
Mr Avoka 12:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is because of your initial commitment that I cannot urge the matter further. But I think that we should not create a principle that any time that the Committee on Finance is to approve a loan facility for us to undertake an activity pertaining to a sector, that sector must be involved in the approving of the loan. That is what I am talking about. We are talking about procuring a fund for the completion of certain projects; those who have to complete the project do not need to be there to approve of the funding. Absolutely, they do not need to be there.
When the money is acquired, it then comes to their domain as to how the money is going to be utilized. At this stage, they are not talking about utilisation of the funding; they are talking about how the money will come to Ghana -- simple. What has the Committee on Health got to do with the conditions on the loan? At this stage, it is premature.
But in view of your earlier commitment to the Hon Minority Leader, I can yield and concede on this matter but I do not think that as a principle, any time the Committee on Finance is going to approve of a loan bordering on Forestry or Housing and the rest of them, then the two Committees definitely must meet. That is overstretching the matter.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Hon Members, I refer the matter to the joint Committee on Finance and Health but each case must be looked at on its own merit.
By the Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning (Mr Seth Terkpeh) (on behalf of Minister for Finance and Economic Planning) -
Request for waiver of tax and duties amounting to US$20,794,637.00 on goods and services to be implemented in the AngloGold Ashanti (Ghana) Malaria Control Project in the three northern regions.
Referred to the Committee on Finance.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Hon Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning, I thought you had some other business because I have been informed by the Table Office that you have some other business which is not on the Order Paper?
Mr Seth Terkpeh 12:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is to withdraw an Agreement that was made before this House earlier, that is, on the 28th of July for some corrections to be made.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
What is the title of that Agreement?
Mr Terkpeh 12:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is a Loan Agreement between the Government of Ghana and the Unicredit Bank of Austria AG for an amount of €7.3 million for financing the upgrading of highway
infrastructure by implementing the Misho bridge and Twifo Praso bridge, and these are at the instance of the Ministry of Roads and Highways.
Dr Prempeh 12:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not think it is out of place for an addendum to be provided this House before we allow such a matter to be even put before the House. It is not out of place; it can be done in just fifteen minutes. But the way he is just coming to withdraw something that belongs to the House, I need your direction. I do not think it is right.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Hon Member, I have had the privilege, when I was briefed, to look at the document and I realised that he laid that particular document. And when the Paper is laid, then it takes the leave of the House and that is what he is seeking to do, to seek the leave of the House to have that Paper withdrawn. That is what he is doing now, and that is why I asked you to comment on it so that --
Hon Members, the Paper is accordingly withdrawn.
rose rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Hon Members, I did not see anybody on his feet. When you got up, I called you.
Mr Joseph Y. Chireh 12:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have a point of order against him. He should sit down and not be challenging your authority.
Dr Prempeh 12:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we want the work of the House to continue smoothly. It is precisely the wording that we cannot couch, that is why we need it on an Order Paper to grant one what one wants, Mr Speaker. We agreed that he can withdraw with your permission but we need to see it in writing for documentary

purposes -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Hon Member, somebody brings his document to the House, and he is saying that that document he brought, he wants to withdraw it. Unless there is some strong reason -- if the man said “I am not even going to co-operate with you to consign the document”, what can you do? [Laughter.]
Hon Minority Leader, do you have anything to say?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:30 p.m.
Not really, Mr Speaker. I have seen the point that he wants to make relating to the withdrawal of the document and ordinarily, I should not have anything against it. Except Mr Speaker, one would want to know under which rules the Hon Deputy Minister is coming.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Hon Member, the practice of this House allows us to do so. The Paper is accordingly withdrawn. Are you laying another one? Or you will come back and lay it at the appropriate time?
Mr Seth Terkpeh 12:30 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Very well.
Dr Kojo Appiah-Kubi 12:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would like to crave your indulgence to seek for a clarification on the loan facility as advertised on the Order Paper, item 5 (ii). This loan - [Interruption.]
rose
Dr Appiah-Kubi 12:30 p.m.
I yield to my Leader.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thought he was proceeding on the matter before us -- if we can exhaust this and then maybe, after, you may call him to address the other one.
Mr Speaker, I notice that the withdrawal, as captured by our Standing Orders, is in
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Hon Members, I have looked at the Standing Orders, there is withdrawal of Bills, withdrawal of Motions, but for Papers, there is explicit provision for it. But the practices of this House over the years have allowed us to withdraw Papers that have been laid and I think that Standing Order 6 which states as follows:

And therefore, I am treating it on the basis of withdrawal of Motions and Bills for the same principle to apply.

Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, are you ready to take item 6?
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Hon Member, I am sorry.
Dr Appiah-Kubi 12:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, as I said earlier, I just wanted to seek clarification with respect to the loan facility advertised in item 5 (ii). This loan facility Agreement is between the Government of Ghana and General Capital Corporation of the United States of America, but the amount is quoted in euros. Is it a mistake or -- [Interruptions] -- A company in the United States will
not give a loan and quote it in euros, definitely, not.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Hon Member, when they bring the report, then we can raise some of these matters. So as of now, we are just laying Papers. As of now, Papers are being laid and when the report comes, then the point that you are raising, we can then take it.
Dr Appiah-Kubi 12:30 p.m.
But Mr Speaker, I just do not want to -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Hon Member, the matter has been referred to the Committee for consideration and report.
When the report comes, then we will raise all matters relevant to the Paper that has been laid. But this cannot be a basis of questioning the laying. As of now, it is only the laying that has been done.
ANNOUNCEMENTS 12:30 p.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Hon Members, before I call on the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee to move the Motion standing in his name, item 6 on the Order Paper, we have received communication from His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Ghana.
Hon Members, clearly, we have to get the necessary arrangements put in place for Madam Speaker to be sworn-in today, after consultation with Leadership because we keep on raising the issue of vacuum. If we have to summon here at 10.00 o'clock for the swearing-in to take place, there would still be a problem. But we will have her sworn-in today - contingent on the departure - [Interruptions] - of the President. So Hon Members, in consultation with the Leadership of the House, that is what we intend doing.

12.30 p.m. COMMUNICA-
TION FROM PRESIDENT -- 12:40 p.m.
Mr K. T. Hammond 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I implore you as a First Deputy Speaker to help this

House to help resolve this very important constitutional matter --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
You know that I do not resolve constitutional matters?
Mr Hammond 12:40 p.m.
It is to help the House, not to help - Mr Speaker, I do know and you do know that there is a Supreme Court decision on this matter. What I do say is that at least, this House must make it a point of inviting the Supreme Court to see if they could -- We should at least, go to court to get this - Because some of us very, very strongly believe that there is room for the Supreme Court to review or look at their decision again.
The President is going to Nigeria tomorrow morning and come back in the evening. On what basis does anybody suggest that we do not have a President?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Hon Member, have you read the Supreme Court decision on the matter?
Mr Hammond 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with respect, yes, I have.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
I have also read it and the Supreme Court's position is that they want our President to be physically present in Ghana to exercise the functions of the President.
Mr Hammond 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with respect, the point I am making is that we can invite the Court to review its own decision. That is the point I am making. I know about all that but I think that - [Interruption] -- My friend, listen to me --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Hon K. T. Hammond, you know very well, as I do, that until the Supreme Court reviews its decision, that is the law.
Mr Hammond 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think somebody is not listening to me.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Hon K. T. Hammond, I am very much listening to you, and you have made the point that we should get the Supreme Court to review its own decision -
Mr Hammond 12:40 p.m.
That is the point I am making. I am not saying there is no law -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Until that is reviewed, we are bound by the ruling of the Supreme Court.
Mr Avoka 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, before I go to the substance of the matter, I overheard Hon K. T. Hammond say that you must listen to him. [Interruptions.] I heard him. I am not coming to consult - [Interruption.] I am not in his clinic - [Laughter.] He said, “listen to me”. We have always insisted that we have to have decorum in the House. So the practice is that, maybe, we would be holding some Sitting - [Interruption]-- Please, I am on my feet. [Interruptions.]
Mr Hammond 12:40 p.m.
You are completely wrong. Look at how he is behaving; how can I speak like that to the Speaker?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, you have the floor.
Mr Avoka 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am saying that in the future, we would need to advise ourselves how to comport ourselves in the Chamber. Sometimes the Speaker is making a ruling, then we are up with our microphones on and then talking at the same time. It does not give this august House any respect.
The practice is that any time that Mr Speaker is talking, the Member must resume his or her seat and put his or her microphone off, then after that he or she can then rise and catch the Speaker's eye but not for the Speaker to be talking and a
Member to be gesturing and gesticulating and then talking at the same time. But we would not belabour the point.
Mr Speaker, in the light of the statement that you have read to us -- Hon Colleagues, in the light of the statement that Mr Speaker has read to us, you know tomorrow morning at 7.00 o'clock, His Excellency the President would be away; he would be leaving the country. If we want to summon us back here at 6.30 a.m. or between 6.30 a.m. and 7.00 a.m. to swear in Madam Speaker, to start acting, it may be inconvenient to us.
So the suggestion -- after we have consulted, the suggestion on the floor for the consideration of Hon Members is this, that it is possible for us to invite the Chief Justice to come and swear-in Madam Speaker during the course of today. But a statement would be made that after she has been sworn, it would take effect at 7.00 o'clock tomorrow, when the President is gone.
So this is for the consideration of Hon Colleagues, so that we do not inconvenience ourselves of assembling here tomorrow at 6.00 a.m. to swear Madam Speaker and then adjourn proceedings and come back at 10.00 o'clock again. The hardship would be very, very great; there would be too much hardship for us. So we can swear-in Madam Speaker today in the afternoon -- even sometime at 2.00 o'clock or 3.00 o'clock. We will invite Hon Members who are attending various committees to attend to the Chamber, then we can swear- in Madam Speaker and indicate that even though she is sworn-in today, her acting functions would take effect tomorrow from 7.00 o'clock onwards when the President is airborne.
Thank you.
Mr Hammond 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I may be whoever I am supposed to be; what I am not, is certainly a disrespectful Member of this House to that Chair. Mr Speaker, anybody listening to me would have
clearly heard that I did not refer to the Speaker as “you”; I would not do that; I know the rules of this House; I have been here for about close to three terms now; I do not talk to the Chair like that.
Mr Speaker, if the Leader was listening, I said that somebody was not listening to me. Mr Speaker, the Leader has the penchant for sleeping in the House. When he sits in the Chair, I suspect that he was dozing off and was not listening to me - [Interruptions.] I do not like this sort of accusation, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Hon Member, withdraw that statement.
Mr Hammond 12:40 p.m.
It is withdrawn with apologies, Mr Speaker. But Mr Speaker, somebody must - and I am using the words again -- somebody must be listening when I am making my contribution and they must not be attributing things that I have not said, Mr Speaker, to me on the floor of the House.
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.
Dr Prempeh 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the last time Madam Speaker was sworn-in, Parliament was very exalted; and it is nice. Again, Madam Speaker is going to be sworn-in. But Mr Speaker, before we agree, we have to hear it very well why we should agree, because we cannot have two Presidents, whether acting or dormant. No. So if we are going to do this, Mr Speaker, come back and come back well before we understand what you are saying, for as far as the Leader is saying - [Interruptions] - we cannot have two Presidents; one hoping to and one “toing”. It is not possible.
So if he wants us to do that then he has to come properly why we should swear somebody and hide the person in the room for somebody - [Interruptions.] It is not done anywhere.
Mr Joseph Y. Chireh 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that the suggestion you have
Mr Joseph Y. Chireh 12:40 p.m.


Well, whether at the airport or anywhere Parliament decides to meet, that is where the swearing-in takes place. But if you also look at the period between 7.00 o'clock, when the President would be away and 10.00 o'clock when he would -- I would suggest that we bring the Sitting of Parliament forward to 9.00 o'clock so that at least, the plane would still be in the territory here - [Laughter] -- and then we swear her in.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Hon Minister, the President would be leaving Ghana at 7.00 a.m., so why are you suggesting 9.00 a.m?
Mr Chireh 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, first of all, I think that once we have sworn to do our duty anywhere at any time, in fact, if they say you are to travel to the United States or some other place today -- People go there inconveniently - 4.00 a.m., they go. So I still insist that we come here at 6.00 a.m. and swear-in Madam Speaker.
Ms Cecilia Abena Dapaah 12:50 p.m.
Madam Speaker, I believe we should all take notice of the President's statement or even his own stand on this because at a point he said there was only one President. We should not create problems for him and this nation. We should do our jobs as Members of Parliament to make sure that 6.30 a. m. we are here, or a quarter to seven, we are here to do the right thing. That is why we are Members of Parliament. We should take the feelings of the President into consideration.
Thank you.
Mr Yaw Baah 12:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I rise to support the view of the Hon Majority Leader - [Interruptions.] Why so? The reason is irrespective of someone being sworn-in to perform the office of the presidency -- I am talking of the Speaker. If you look at the two precedents that have taken place in this very House, the House waited until -- I am talking of the first precedent when the late Hon Peter Ala Adjetey was sworn in. No matter; whatever happens the Constitution says:
“ . . . t h e t w o a c t s m u s t b e simultaneously ….”
That is, there should not be any time lag but given that time, there was six minutes -- His Excellency Alhaji Aliu Mahama, left the waters of Ghana six minutes before Rt Hon Ala Adjetey was sworn-in. So, there was that time lag of six minutes.
Now, let us come to the second scenario when Hon Mahama left the shores of Ghana and the Rt. Hon Speaker was sworn-in; the time lag was also over three, four, five hours. So this lacuna, no matter whatever exercise we put in place, there will always be a time lag.
So, if we decide as suggested by the Hon Majority Leader, that we swear-in Madam Speaker, the Constitution is quite clear that it is when the President is unable to perform the functions of his or her office -- if she is sworn-in, it does not mean the act takes place because the President is still Mr President sitting. It is only when he leaves the shores -[Interruptions.] Please, allow me; I am making a case. We all know the problem with the Constitution and this is the one area we are calling for revision.
Under our customary law, it is quite clear that be it patrilineal inheritance, or matrilineal inheritance, that is the various paramountcies and under our customary laws, if the chief dies, there is no act to be

done; it is always the Nifahene, if it is an Akan system, or the Krontihene. If we go to the Dagbon land, and if the Dagbon Lord goes to the village, we always have people in place who take over automatically without any act being performed to do the job of the paramountcy.

In our scenario, we do not have this thing in the Constitution, so this has created this Constitutional lacuna. Irrespective of whatever we do, there will always be a time lag within minutes and hours.

So, I feel the suggestion by the Hon Majority Leader must be taken kindly and let us swear-in -- If someone is sworn-in, if Madam Speaker is sworn-in, it does not mean she is performing the job of the Office of the President. It is only when the President is unable, that is when he has left the shores -- I think the previous precedents we have had, it has been when he had left. And there has been time lines which within that period under the Constitution, there was no President in Ghana within that six minutes and within six hours.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Gershon K.B. Gbediame 12:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my first point is that if we are to err, it is better to err on the side of caution, so that if we swear-in Madam Speaker, awaiting the departure of the President, there is never going to be any vacuum created. We are aware that the other time Mr President travelled and the Vice- President also travelled, the following morning there was a front page caption -- the moment, where the whole country did not have a President --
In order to avoid this, I want to appeal to Hon Members that we swear-in Madam Speaker and add the caveat that she will come into that capacity as soon as the President leaves the shores of this country. By so doing, we are not going to create any room of any vacuum; therefore, we have to do it.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Prof. Mike A. Oquaye 12:50 p.m.
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, we definitely can have the Rt Hon Speaker sworn-in anytime from now to take office the moment the President leaves the shores of Ghana. Nothing stops us from acting except that we cannot do things retroactively. So, Mr Speaker, I think we are well seized to proceed with this matter.
Mrs Betty Mould-Iddrisu 12:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank the Second Deputy Speaker for this clarification.
Let me just say that article 60 (11) and (12) has to be interpreted in a purposive manner. There is obviously a slight lacuna or flaw with the wording of the Constitution when it comes to this particular area. In constitutions, articles need to be interpreted in a purposive manner in order to give full effect to the provisions of the Constitution. And after much appropriate deliberation on the matter, we decided that this would be the most appropriate way forward in order to fulfil the spirit and the letter of article 60 (11) and (12). And I would urge Hon Members to look at it and give their support to the swearing-in today.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Deputy Minority Leader, are you still minded to make your contribution? Otherwise, I call the Minority Leader and we close the chapter on this issue.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think first of all, we must commend His Excellency the President for informing this House early enough about the impending departure from the shores of Ghana. I think what caused the problem the previous time was that the
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1 p.m.


communication did not get to Parliament early enough.

But Mr Speaker, I think that regarding when Madam Speaker is going to be sworn- in on such occasions, I believe we will always have time lags. Fancy the situation when Rt. Hon Peter Ala Adjetey was sworn-in around midnight in February 2002. Yes, we wanted to be sure that the plane was airborne but how were we to calculate exactly when the plane left the territorial, the jurisdiction of the Republic? It is absolutely impossible to so calculate.

Mr Speaker, again, fancy a situation where perish that thought, the President and the Vice President lose their lives. I said, “perish that thought”. But if it should happen before communication is given to the Republic and the occasion then would arise for the Speaker to be sworn- in, definitely, there would be a time lag. So it is absolutely impossible to cure that time of time lag by attempting to swear the Speaker in maybe, at the exact time when the President would be leaving.

Mr Speaker, I think that the other relevant provision in the Constitution which is material is article 60 (8), which provides --

“Whenever the President is absent from Ghana or is for any other reason unable to perform the functions of his office, the Vice-President shall perform the functions of the President until the President returns or is able to perform his functions.”

Mr Speaker, what it means is that the physical presence of the President is what the Constitution is harping on and that is why, at least, per this construction, if the President is unavailable, somebody must fill his place. That is the language of the Constitution. So at least, until that
Mr Ambrose P. Dery 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I
think that in substance, I want to support what my Hon Leader has said. Except to emphasise that the Oaths to be taken today, in my view, is within the Constitution.
One way that the President and the Vice will be unable to perform, is for them to be physically absent. But if in the process of being physically absent, they are unable to perform, the fact that they are at the airport or in a plane, does not, in my opinion, digress from the fact that they are unable to perform in those circumstances, their functions here.
So it will be within (11) and all that (12) tells us is that before the Speaker can play that role in the absence of the two of them,
she should take the Oaths. The only thing is that the oaths cannot be taken after but it should be before.
So once we take the Oaths today, it is well within the Constitution, and she has taken them before, and that the Speaker can only act when the two of them are unable to do so, which will be after 7.00 a.m. when the two of them will not be able to do so. So the fact that she is sworn-in today, does not make a President while the President is available and functioning. So I support substantially, what the Leader has said.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Hon
Members, are we still debating this matter? I thought that we had heard enough?
Hon Members, we thank you very much.
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Yes,
Majority Leader, the last on this matter
Mr Avoka 1 p.m.
Please, please, address
Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I am getting the sense of majority of the Hon Members of the House that since the Constitution is a living document and then it is intended to guide us in a constructive manner, the consensus is that we can swear Madam Speaker in today. In view of the legal argument also proposed that she does not become effective President until the two - Vice-President and President are out of the jurisdiction --
I want to conclude by saying that Hon Members may agree so that we will invite the Chief Justice at 2.00 p.m., so that we can do the swearing-in today for her to start her effective functions at 7.00 tomorrow morning.
Thank you.
Several Hon Members -- rose --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Hon
Members, I thought that I had allowed a lot
of Hon Members to express their opinion on this matter and it appears there is -
Hon Members, item 7 - Students Loan Trust Fund Bill - at the Consideration Stage.
1.10 p.m. -- MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER
BILLS - CONSIDERATION 1 p.m.
STAGE 1 p.m.
  • [Resumption of debate from 5/11/2010]
    • Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Order, Order! Hon Members, the Students Loan Trust Fund Bill at the Consideration Stage.
    Chairman of the Committee, will you give us appropriate guidance? Order! Order!

    Chairman of the Committee (Mr

    Mathias A. Puozaa): Mr Speaker, clause 22, amendment proposed -- subclause (1), line 2, before “permanent” insert “total” and in line 3, delete “disability” and insert “incapacitation”.

    Mr Speaker, the last time we debated on this, it was agreed that “permanent disability” is a legal term and the doctors do accept it as such. So it is quite unnecessary to go over it. So I beg to withdraw that amendment, if you please.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Hon
    Chairman, you mean the amendment listed under 7(iii) on the Order Paper is withdrawn?
    Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker, because
    Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.


    the House agreed that it is accepted.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Thank
    you very much.
    Hon Members, the amendment is accordingly withdrawn. And for the avoidance of doubt, Hon Chairman, amendments affecting clause 12 as listed under 7(i) and 7 (ii) are also withdrawn because they have been dealt with.
    Hon Chairman, shall we confirm the
    position on 7(i) that was dealt with? Hon Boafo, I want confirmation for the record that 7(i) has been withdrawn.
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, yes, the last time that we considered (i), I withdrew and it appeared in the Votes and Proceedings.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Yes, just
    to be sure. It is duly withdrawn.
    Clause 22 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Chairman of the Committee, will you want us to take clause 12 or you think we can make progress and come back to it?
    Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, when Hon
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Order.
    Hon Chairman?
    Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
    So I think he can table that and we continue; that is item 7(ii).
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    You have come to some general understanding on the matter? Very well.
    Hon Boafo, if that would not take us too much time because you have -
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 12, add the following new subclause:
    “(2) Despite subsection (1), where the Board has any justifiable or reasonable observation or reservation on the policy directive, the Board may promptly make recommendation on the directive to the Minister.”
    Mr Speaker, the reason behind this proposed amendment is to cater for a situation where members of the Board can have a defence to any allegation against them as having taken any reasonable steps to avert a negative impact of the policy directive.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Very well.
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, in these days
    of causing financial loss, this particular provision is very, very much necessary.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Thank you very much, Hon Boafo.
    Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
    It is accepted, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    That is accepted. You have no difficulty. I think it is direct enough.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 12 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 23, subclause (4), line 4, delete
    “at the prevailing interest rate plus five percent on the loan granted by the Fund to the borrower”
    and insert the following:
    “deducted at the prevailing interest
    rate plus five per cent as a penalty”.
    We prefer this because it is neater and direct to the point.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 23 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Clause
    24 - There is no listed amendment. [pause.] Chairman of the Committee, clause 24 has been dealt with?
    Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Because of the fact that various areas have been dealt with, I will be glad if you would kindly draw my attention accordingly.
    Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, it had no
    problem.
    Clause 25 --
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move,
    clause 25, delete subclause (1), and insert the following:
    “(1) Where a borrower defaults in repaying the loan for six cumulative months, the Board shall send a notice of demand to the borrower to make payment in the manner provided under subsection (2). A copy of the demand notice shall be delivered or sent to the borrower's guarantors in the same manner”.
    Mr Speaker, I propose to deal with the deletion part first. A careful reading of subclause (1) authorises the Board to publish the borrower's name and that of the guarantor in a daily newspaper if the borrower defaults in payment.
    Mr Speaker, the purpose of the amendment is to elaborate a bit on the process by providing that before the publication in the Papers takes place the Board should serve a notice of demand on the borrower. A notice of demand should be sent to the borrower before the publication takes place in the newspaper, in case he defaults after the notice of demand has been -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Delivered to whom? To the borrower? “A copy of the demand notice shall be delivered”, then the other part of the sentence says, “or sent to the borrower's guarantors in the same manner.” But delivered to whom?
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, because under the proposed subclause (2), we used the expression “send and deliver.”
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Who shall be the intended recipient of that which would be delivered?
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the borrower -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    The
    borrower -
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Or the guarantor?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Very
    well. So let us get the rendition right because in the paying of the loan for six cumulative months --
    “(1)Where a borrower defaults in repaying the loan for six cumulative months, the Board shall send a notice of demand to the borrower to make payment in the manner provided under subsection (2). A copy of the demand notice shall be
    delivered or sent to the borrower's guarantors in the same manner.”
    Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Chireh 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if you look at
    what he is reading, we have two sentences there. In lawmaking, we need to get either a sub to this or because once you said full stop, the other action needs to be addressed to somebody else under a different section or subsection; you cannot have the two together if the Hon Member who moved the amendment agrees, the draftspersons will know how to do it but otherwise -- [Interruptions]-- you understand what I mean because once you say the “first part” it is all right, but the second part needs to be on its own and different.
    So I do not know why we are linking them. Do we even need it at all? Do we need the second part? We do not.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    If that
    will be a new clause, for example, we can leave it to the draftspersons. So we can approve of that subject to the drafting process.
    Thank you very much, Hon Minister.
    Question put and amendment agreed
    to.
    Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker I beg to move,
    clause 25,
    “(2) The demand notice shall be sent or delivered to the borrower at his last known place of abode or address and published twice in a daily newspaper circulating in the country”
    Mr Speaker, as a matter of fact, what has been put down as two and three should rather be regarded as new clauses to be added so that the draftspersons or the Table Office should know exactly how to arrange them.

    Mr Speaker, the new clause, the first one, combines the manner in which the notice of demand should be sent or delivered and it reads as follows:

    “The demand notice shall be sent or delivered to the borrower at his last known place of abode or address and published twice in a daily newspaper circulating in the country.”

    Subject to the draftspersons way of putting it.
    Mr Chireh 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, from what I
    said earlier, if the Hon Member wants, we can just take the essence of the guarantors and add it here to the first part for the second part of the first amendment not to appear at all. So that it will now read as follows:
    “The demand notice shall be sent or delivered to the borrower or his guarantors.”
    I think that the draftspersons should take note and bring the second part and add it where it has defined the way of doing it.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    But
    subject to that you approved of it? Very well.
    Question put and amendment agreed
    to.
    Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move,
    clause 25,
    “(3)If the borrower fails to repay or make satisfactory arrangement to repay pursuant to the demand notice published under subsection (1), the Board shall publish the name of the borrower or the name of the borrower's guarantor in a daily newspaper circulating in the country.”
    Mr Speaker, this is also a new clause
    which we leave to the Table Office to make the necessary arrangement. It goes with a situation where the borrower fails to repay, then the Board shall have the right to publish the name of the borrower or the
    borrower's guarantor in daily newspaper which is just to ensure natural justice -- fairness.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Very
    well. We are all mindful of the need to have the draftspersons to work on this as to the arrangement. But we just want to know now whether we approve of the essence.
    Mr Mathias K. Ntow 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker,
    please, I had a little problem with the last aspect of clause 25 (2) and with your permission, I want to read,
    “. . . and published twice in a daily newspaper circulating in the country.”
    These days we have a lot of these daily newspapers, so which one? Do we have to add something to ensure that it is in a government newspaper or -- because there are a lot of government newspapers circulating in the country today? I need a clarification.
    Mrs Frema Akosua Osei-Opare 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I disagree with the last Hon Member who spoke, because a Government daily newspaper today could be a private daily newspaper tomorrow, so we cannot be specific in this case.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    I think that we can trust the appropriate authority to use their discretion at the appropriate time because this is nothing as such.
    Mr Chireh 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the concern
    the Hon Member is expressing is that, we have newspapers that are only reviewed, nobody buys them; they send them to the radio stations to be reviewed but nobody gets even a copy to buy if you wanted to. So if you have the thing published in such a daily newspaper and they are all calling themselves daily newspapers, then it will be a problem. I think we should have another way of distinguishing to
    make it --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Hon
    Minister, help us in having a way to distinguish --
    Mr Chireh 1:20 p.m.
    I only know his concern
    but it is difficult to address it. I would have liked a situation where you have some particular -- [Interruptions] -- widely - all right, the Fund will decide.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    The Hon Minister says the Fund will decide. And on that, shall we make progress?
    Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, when we are
    making these laws, we have to have two scenarios in mind. The first one is that, we demonstrate this democratic governance during the time that we elect the people to represent us in Parliament. The second one is that, in-between the election, we have to put up structures because we can never trust that we will at all times have good elite people to manage the affairs of the country.
    So we have to put some structures in place to provide a sort of checks and balances during that period between elections and that is precisely what we are trying to put here. If he says that the Fund will decide it, we do not know whether you will at all times have members on the Fund who are mindful about good governance --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Hon
    Boafo, are you inclined towards amending your amendment further?
    Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
    In view of what the Hon
    Colleague said, if we can make it that it should be in a daily newspaper with wider circulation in the country.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Hon
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Furthermore, the Table Office should take note of clearing this with the draftspersons.
    Mr Boafo 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think we are still on clause 25 but the Question for the whole clause 25 has been put.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    That was on that part of it. We shall now go to (vi). There is a further amendment to clause 25, and that is standing in the name of Hon Boafo.
    Mr Boafo 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the amendment proposed under (vi), I wish to, with the leave of the House, withdraw that amendment.
    Mr Boafo 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 25, subclause (3), delete and insert the following:
    “The Board shall without any further notice to the borrower proceed to execute or enforce the judgement for the recovery of the loan or any balance then outstanding in an appropriate manner.”
    Mr Speaker, the purpose of the proposed amendment is to carry into effect the purpose of the original clause 2. Mr Speaker will notice that under the original subclause (2), the publication of the debts in the newspaper is deemed as a judgement which has been entered by the

    Circuit Court against the borrower. So, the judgement has been entered already against the borrower, and this is for the purpose of trying to avoid a delay in the recovering system.

    Mr Speaker, the purpose of the amendment is to say that once the judgement has been entered, then the Fund or the Board will have the right to proceed to execute the judgement so that we do not have another situation where the judgement would have to be entered again and that would call for another service of that judgement and it will delay the process. So Mr Speaker, if I may read the proposed amendment:

    “The Board shall without any further notice to the borrower proceed to execute or enforce the judgement for the recovery of the loan or any balance then outstanding in an appropriate manner.”

    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr Puozaa 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 25, subclause (4), line 3, after “made” delete “Social Security and National Insurance Trust Pension Scheme” and insert “any scheme under the National Pensions Act, 2008 (Act 766)”.
    ‘This is because, Mr Speaker, there are
    other pension schemes now accepted in this country. Therefore, if we are to limit everybody to Social Security and National Insurance Trust (SSNIT), it will not be good enough.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr Puozaa 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 25, subclause (5), delete and insert the following:
    “(5) The Board may request any Scheme
    established under the National Pensions Act, 2008 (Act 766), or any pension scheme operated and managed by any institution in the country to provide information on any contributions made by a borrower or guarantor to that scheme and the contributions shall be attached for the repayment of a loan under this Act.”
    We found it necessary. Mr Speaker,
    because there are other pension schemes, for example, the universities have their own pension schemes, senior staff and others and even there are other organisations that have special pension schemes for their workers. So, any of such which is acceptable should be accepted by the Fund.
    Mrs Osei-Opare 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I need a bit of clarification from the Chairman of the Committee. The pension scheme is for pension; when you are old and you are almost incapacitated and you need to have something to live on, are we saying by this amendment that one has to set one's pension against that loan as a sort of collateral? Is that what the intention is?
    I believe it is stretching things a bit far. I believe also that we have to be sure that the Pensions Act actually does allow for this kind of thing to be done by setting it as collateral. I think we should also be mindful; this small pension and we want to - I want further clarification because I do not like the spirit of this amendment.
    Mr Puozaa 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we have
    really examined this and it seems - not that it seems, with all these other loans, the guarantor uses the pension. At the moment, you need your SSNIT Pension
    Scheme to serve as guarantee before you can stand for anybody as security. So I think it is just in order unless otherwise. That is the most secure way of really ensuring that you are not running away and that the loan will be got.
    For instance, I have not got my pension though I retired two years ago because I guaranteed for seven different people who have absconded. So at the moment, I cannot get my pension because of that. This is safeguard; so I have to find a way of paying for those things.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    So that
    in fact, if we are using the SSNIT and others as security, if you cannot attach that security, then getting those details would be meaningless; you would be engaging in a futile exercise. Not so? So it should be possible now to go, fall back on what the entitlements are under the scheme, so as to secure the money that may otherwise be lost. Otherwise, there would be no point in taking those things as guarantees and securities. So I think the clause could make that meaningful.
    Mr Chireh 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think that the fears he is expressing, they do not exist. If you are a pensioner and you decide that somebody's education is important and you guarantee a loan, why should we not attach your pension? Indeed, the thing is also to take account of other schemes because the Government one which is the national pension scheme, that one is already covered. Some people cannot collect their pension or their pension benefits because the students have failed to pay those they guaranteed for to collect the loans.
    So it is a conscious decision somebody is making. So we should not be concerned about why somebody decides that he or she is a pensioner and he or she wants
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Clause 29, Chairman of the Committee, your guidance. We have gone through all the others, the listed clauses?
    Mr Puozaa 1:40 p.m.
    We have done that.
    Mr Puozaa 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 29, - Paragraph (a), delete and insert the following:
    “(a) On admission into an accredited tertiary institution or during the course of studies in the institution, the borrower obtains a scholarship from the Government of Ghana or from a public funded source;”
    The reason for this amendment is to allow as many people as possible to have access to this Fund -- to the loan. So if one should get a scholarship from any other, like the District Assembly, a board like the COCOBOD or some other financial institutions of Government or even let us say, GETFund, then that fellow should not be allowed to enjoy from this scheme, because we want as many people as possible to benefit.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    So that
    you cannot hold two scholarships? Very well.
    Mrs Osei-Opare 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if I recall the last discussion, there was an issue of private funded source. That has been deleted. I believe very much that if the spirit is to allow for more people, in applying for a loan, sometimes, it ought to be known whether you really need the loan or not. If you have private sources, whether from parents or others, who are well endowed and can afford to pay, by that assessment, why should you need a student loan trust? So I still believe that the private funded source is relevant for the purpose and allow those who are really in need to access that money and not those who really can afford it.
    Mr Puozaa 1:40 p.m.
    This was really debated for almost the whole day and the consensus was that, we should just let it stand as it is because if it is private, it is a private issue; how do I get to know that “A” or “B” or “C” got funding from a church or his village millionaire or something like that? This is private -- And then the other thing we also know is that, currently, getting guarantors is not an easy affair and many people I know are even refusing to collect these loans because of failure to get guarantors.
    So for that reason, we felt that if it is private, it is private - it is private affair. How do you know that the fellow got a loan; if it is private from some other source? When we say private, it really means churches and other institutions that have no government influence. So that is what we mean.
    Mrs Osei-Opare 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I believe that the form that you gave to the borrower should state sources of funding; from parents, from other sources. You should be required to declare your
    sources of funding and I believe very much that if a church - I am an Anglican - Anglican Church has a Fund and my son is benefiting from it, it is still somehow public in the sense that the source is from others. However, we would classify it technically as private.
    But I believe very much that a form should ask the borrower to declare what sources of funding they have for their education. And if it is so assessed that you have a scholarship from the Anglican Development Fund and because of this amount, you do not need the extra from the Students Loan Trust Fund, then we would so assess.
    But to say that because it is not government and therefore, it is of no consequence, it is of consequence when people have resources that they can use to further their education and they are depriving others who may not have anything to support their education. I believe it is important for us to say also the private source; it should be declared on the form and I believe some of them may even have bigger sums of money supporting them than those who are getting the Students Loan Scheme.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    So, Hon Member, are we heading towards the direction where we would say that from the Government of Ghana or any other source -- Is that the line of thinking? So that whatever the source is, once you are getting enough, so determined, then you should not qualify and leave the money for other people. Is that the idea?
    Thank you very much.
    Mr Chireh 1:40 p.m.
    I think that the argument here, we want equity and when we are talking about equity, we are looking at public -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Hon Minister, if I may ask, would you be supporting the point of view that any other source -
    Mr Chireh 1:40 p.m.
    No. I do not agree with her because we are looking at public source of funding for students. Now, if there is another public source that you have benefited from, you naturally should not be given another. But whether somebody else, a private person or a private institution has helped you, that is not the reason you should be disqualified - [Interruption] No, it cannot be because the responsibility is that, why would anybody go for a public loan when he is all right? And it is a very difficult thing for you to determine.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Maybe,
    out of greed.
    Mr Chireh 1:50 p.m.
    So, I think that what
    we are concerned about is making sure that people who are entitled to the public funds, they do not get from one public institution and collect from another. But whether your uncle is in Accra and gives you more money and in any case, it will also depend on the taste of the student. If a student wants a car to go to school and another wants a bicycle to go, they will have different - and the private one, it is his business.
    But this one, we are ensuring that if you have benefited from any public institution, you do not benefit. But there is no way we can determine whether an Anglican institution or a Catholic institution, as in my case, has given the student any funding. And we should be bothered about it; it will be difficult to determine.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Hon
    Member, I think on the form, you are asked
    Mr Avoka 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we took
    almost a whole day to debate this clause. And as the majority of Members are saying, private source is private source. Our concern on equity and fairness is with regard to public funds and not private sourcing of funds. So, we are saying that, if it is GETFund, Cocoa Marketing Board Scholarship, whatever, or even District Assemblies, you are assessing public funds, a loan or a facility from public funds to educate yourself, then you should not be entitled to this loan facility.
    But if my uncle in the United States of America (US) or Siberia sends me money and you get the information and say your uncle sent you money, therefore, you are not entitled to Ghana Government public funding. No! I think that we are overstretching the thing.
    So, we have debated this and the consensus is that, as for public funds, you cannot benefit twice. But privately, we will even find it difficult to ascertain the quantum of money or even the fact that you even had private funding unless you want to use some of the resources that are meant for students to be able to do due diligence and get information about the private funding.
    So, I think we should not belabour the point; we should concern ourselves with what we have jointly produced as a country, the national cake and if that is

    the national cake, then let us share it fairly and equitably, so you do not benefit twice. Not people who have their own connection and goodwill and then you deprive them because of their goodwill, integrity or connections.
    Papa Owusu-Ankomah 1:50 p.m.
    Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for recognizing me and I have listened to my Majority Leader but his argument is defeating the whole purpose of this Students Loan Trust. I am saying it on authority because I was Minister for Education and this was one of the major concerns that as much as possible, those who have access to funds should not get support. Private funds, public funds, even your own parents because there were people who could be given a certain sum of money; it was not enough to meet their needs.
    So, if somebody really needs, let us say, ten thousand cedis, it is better that, that person gets it rather than someone who does not need it but thinks that he has a right to it, so, he applies and takes it. After all, it is a loan and a loan is given when you are assessed to need it. That is the point. So, if you have other resources, then you do not need it. That is why I said that the whole purpose of this Students Loan Trust was to have a means testing system. Yes, your means, whether you have the means.
    If you have said that, at a point in time, it can be declined - a person can be refused the loan if they think he has other sources, fine, then it is discretionary. But to say that the person should not be prevented from having access to loan because he has private resources, defeats the whole purpose. That was what you said - [Interruptions.] If somebody has not taken loan from public sources - [Interruptions.] - No! No! That is how I understood it -- that if you have private means, it does not mean you should not get access to the loan. And I am saying that the whole idea of the loan is to ensure that it is those who
    need it who get it. So, this argument that you have posited really defeats the whole purpose of this Students Loan Trust. But of course, we can agree.
    Prof. Fobih 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the clause as it is stated here is shrouded with some difficulties -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Excuse
    me. Hon Members, with regard to the state of business in the House and the time, I direct that Sitting be held beyond the prescribed period.
    Prof. Fobih 1:50 p.m.
    As it is here, it
    presupposes that if a student or a borrower has a scholarship or some funding from a District Assembly and the Fund which is a public funded source and the amount is not even equivalent to what the loan disburses, then he is not entitled to get supplementation from the Board and I think this is unfair to the student.
    Rather, I will consider a situation where if the borrower's scholarship is rather equivalent to the expenses he has to incur in the programme or is in excess of it, then of course, he can be made ineligible to apply for the loan. Because he needs the money to pursue a particular course and because he does not have the means to pursue the course but he has only part of the means, that is why he is coming to the Board to seek supplementation and it must be allowed.
    I think we worded this thing so that we can eliminate (b). And I discussed it with the Chairman and we just added a small phrase, then we can do away with (b) I think. So, I would suggest that we look at that clause too. I think Chairman, we discussed this --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    I think
    the Hon Member is bringing one other dimension. The dimension being that assuming what a student gets is lower than what he would otherwise get from the Fund, what happens to the shortfall? Will
    there be some provision for the shortfall? So, this is a shortfall situation argument, if I get Hon Prof. Fobih very well. Yes, under the Fund, I could get five thousand. I have got some scholarship from a public source worth four thousand but I am still worse off, will I get the difference?
    Mr Puozaa 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, please, (b),
    I think takes care of that. The amount of the scholarship is equal to or exceeds the maximum loan payable under the loans scheme of the Fund at the time of the grant of the scholarship. Apart from that I think that the loan scheme is really meant to supplement what the student spends at school.
    There is no loan scheme, at least, that can take care of everything. So it is not like a scholarship. If we were talking of a scholarship, then I would understand; I would understand my Colleagues. But if it is just a loan scheme, you are picking it to do one or two things. So do not let us belabour the point. The fact is that you are asking for a supplement, something to supplement your stay at school. The loan scheme is not supposed to pay for your accommodation, your feeding and books. We all know that. I do not think there is need for us to continue dragging this but it is just a supplement to what your parents are already paying or whoever is already taking care of you.
    Prof. (Emeritus) Samuel K. Amoako 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I just want to say something to support what the Chairman of the Committee said. In the first place, those students who will get loans or scholarships from private sources, what we need to know is that, not everybody will qualify under those terms. If I am a Methodist and I get a loan - [Interruptions] - and I get a loan or a scholarship from the Methodist Church, not everybody will qualify for
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    Order! Order! Hon Members, order in the House!
    Prof (Emeritus) Amoako 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think in addition, we need to differentiate between a loan and a scholarship. This is a loan that is supposed to be paid back. So I think we must make it available to all students irrespective of whether they have got scholarship or funding from private sources. Otherwise, the intended purpose will not be achieved and also it is not only providing loans for just loan sake. This is a tool that can be used to direct where special courses - [Interruptions.]
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    Order, Order.
    Prof (Emeritus) Amoako 2 p.m.
    So if you have a student who is going to pursue Science and we want more students to do Science, we cannot say that because they have got scholarship from Barclays Bank or Standard Bank, they do not qualify for the loan. If we use this tool to direct the places where students should go, we should not disqualify them because they have been funded from private sources. So I think the amendment should stand as it is because (b) takes care of the other side of the equation.
    Mr Dery 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if you look at (b), it sets a certain standard, that when you have assistance from one public source and it exceeds the maximum loan,

    you do not qualify. So it seems to me that there is a need element in it. Supposing from a private source, I get ten times that, the issue is, do I still qualify to apply?

    That is all I want - because if it is need that this loan is based on, is it going to be accessible to all the total number of students available in Ghana at a time? If it is not going to be, then we should ensure that those who get the money are those who actually need it [Interruptions] - Yes, you are missing the point that she is making. She is saying that on the form you should declare, even if you have from private source, a scholarship that is such that you are deemed not to qualify to be in need of it, you should not be given. That is the point that she is raising.

    Otherwise, what is going to happen is that, those better endowed students are in a position to even get access to this loan than those who do not have it at all. We know that, that if I have a ward and although I can pay and I decide that I want the loan, I am likely to get it even though I do not need it and the boy from the rural area whose father is not well positioned to challenge me will fail to get.

    So, the issue is where a student has private scholarship which makes it clear that he is not in need to qualify under the scheme, should be allowed to access the loan. That is the point that we should consider in this Houase.
    Mr Chireh 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am becoming converted to this idealogy of excluding those who benefit from private sources and there is nothing wrong with putting it in there. The earlier argument was the difficulty to accepting it, whether people will be truthful in what they are declaring. So I will add that instead of ending at public funds, we should add “and private”.
    The private should be captured so that we exclude all those people who do not
    deserve to be asking for loans to be coming there and if they were Christian sources that they got the money from, they will be afraid to declare wrongly and go to Hell. [Laughter.] So in my view, we should add the “private”. I therefore, move, that the Chairman will agree, we add “ or private sources”.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    So that it will read -- “from a public or private funded source”.
    Mr Kwabena O. Darko-Mensah 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I do believe that the Committee's position has been very clear. If this loan is for those in need, I believe that anybody who applies is in need. I do believe that we also need to take away the issue of private source and public funded sources because those who are getting it from other sources out of scholarship, we should not do it in such a way that it will be disincentive to hard-work and scholarship.
    So I do believe that this loan should stand as it is and it should be common and the equalizing factor in the loan schemes that we have in this country where every student in this country can have a loan that he can pick and go with it.
    Recently, when we held the debate, my Chairman made it clear for instance, that those who go to private schools for instance, are those who did not have the benefit of getting quality education at the primary level. Therefore, they tend to end up in the private schools and therefore, I think that we should maintain it as it is and it should be the common loan for all students in this country.
    Mrs Catherine A. Afeku 2 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I early on, when we were working on the amendment, strongly supported the individual aspect being captured by the law. Most of us are aware of endowment in other countries where tertiary education is supported by individual efforts. And I
    think we should also gradually as a nation, graduate from only government source to support tertiary education. We should look into the future where Ghana is becoming an oil producing country. We could have endowment, individual source should be encouraged. Not only will Government be burdened by scholarship but endowment Fund from individuals.
    These Funds are available across the globe and Ghana should not be an exception. So I strongly support that we should make sure it is not only public funding but we should say or individual endowment funds if we want to stretch it. I strongly believe that we should have that room in the law for those who are endowed to support tertiary education. Who knows, it could even be just for women, endowment Fund for women who want to be pilots, scientists and it should be encouraged and it should be captured in this law.
    I thank you, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Puozaa 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I do accept the amendment, that is --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    “Public or private”?
    Mr Puozaa 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, that is, “from public funding or private source”. That is all right, whether individual or -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Very well.
    Mr Puozaa 2:10 p.m.
    It is accepted.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    So that the amendment will now read, “from the Government of Ghana or from a public or private funded source.”
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Order! There is a further amendment to clause 29 in the name of Hon Boafo.
    Mr Boafo 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, in view of the amendment made to the original amendment to add “private source”, I think my proposed amendment becomes a surplusage.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    So it is withdrawn?
    Mr Boafo 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, with the leave of the House it is withdrawn.
    Mr Boafo 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 29, paragraph (b), line 2, delete “Trust” and insert “Fund”
    Mr Speaker, the entire scheme has been defined under the Interpretation Act, that is, the “Fund” has been defined under Interpretation Act. We do not have any definition for a “Trust”. That is why we want to substitute “Fund” for “Trust”. It would be more consistent.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Chairman of the Committee, for consistency sake, Hon Boafo says.
    Mr Puozaa 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, accepted.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Accepted?
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 29 as amended ordered to stand

    part of the Bill.
    Mr Puozaa 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker I beg to move, Long Title, line 3, delete “article 28 and” insert “articles 25 and 38 of the 1992 Constitution.”
    That is, after “articles”, just delete “28” and “38” - [Interruption.] No, “38” is relevant. Just delete “28”and insert “25”.
    Turn to the Long Title, that is on page 3, please.
    “An Act to establish a Fund to provide financial resources for the benefit of students of tertiary institutions to promote and facilitate the national ideals enshrined in articles ‘25 and 38' of the 1992 Constitution and for related matters.”
    So article 25 of the Constitution is the relevant --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Hon Chairman, can you give us the full - Hon Boafo?
    Mr Boafo 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the proposed amendment should read: “Line 3 of the Long Title - delete “28” and insert “25”. That is what it should read because articles 25 and 38 of the Constitution are the articles of the Constitution which are relevant to the subject matter of the Bill.
    Article 25 deals with educational rights and article 38 deals with educational objectives. So the combined effect of articles 25 and 38 will serve the purpose of the Loan Scheme.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Thank you very much.
    Hon Deputy Minority Leader, I can see you are inclined to --
    Mr Dery 2:10 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Make the full formulation for our -
    Mr Dery 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, it should be, “Line 3, delete “28” after “articles” and insert “25”. That is all; not “article” again. So that is it.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    So the rendition will now read: I will want Hon Dery to please, read it to us. So that portion should read as follows - Chairman of the Committee, if you may capture it for us.
    Mr Puozaa 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, it should now read:
    “An Act to establish a Fund to provide financial resources for the benefit of students of tertiary institutions, to promote and facilitate the national ideals enshrined in articles 25 and 38 of the 1992 Constitution and for related matters.”
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Thank you very much. The amendment is clear.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Long Title as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Hon Chairman, I think that brings us to the end of the Consideration Stage if all the areas are -
    Mr Puozaa 2:10 p.m.
    Yes, thank you very much, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Boafo 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would like to invite you to invoke your residual power of control over the affairs of the House and revisit clause 2 in view of the amendment we just made to the Long Title.
    Mr Speaker, early on, we had amended clause 2 to delete “article 28” without making any substitution. So I would
    like to draw your attention, so that we do the same thing to - [Interruption.] Mr Speaker, my Leader says “consequential”, so we refer it to the draftsmen.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    No, read it for the record. I prefer that method.
    Mr Boafo 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the new rendition will be as follows:
    “The object of the Fund is to provide financial resources and a sound management of the Fund for the benefit of students of accredited tertiary institutions pursuing accredited tertiary programmes and to promote and facilitate the national ideals enshrined in articles 25 and 38 of the 1992 Constitution.”
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Thank you very much.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 2 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Hon Members, that brings us to the end of the Consideration Stage.
    Sitting will be suspended for some few minutes for the next stage of proceedings.
    Thank you very much.
    2.19 p.m. -- The Sitting suspended.
    2.45 p.m. -- Sitting resumed.
    MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Hon Members, order! Hon Members, I would like to recall the communication we received today from H.E. the President of
    SWEARING-IN OF THE 2:10 p.m.
    ACTING PRESIDENT 2:10 p.m.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:05 p.m.
    Hon
    Members, based on our earlier discussion on the floor, Madam Speaker assumes duty as Acting President tomorrow after - [Interruptions] -- the departure of His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Ghana tomorrow.
    Hon Members, before I formally
    adjourn the House, I will find out from the Leaders whether they have anything to say.
    Minority Leader (Mr Osei Kyei-
    Mensah-Bonsu): Mr Speaker, whatever word that passes from my mouth by way

    Mr Speaker, I think it is important

    to observe, as I indicated earlier in the morning, that communication relating to the exiting of the President from the jurisdiction tomorrow morning at 7.00 a.m. has come in good time as compared to what happened the previous time when Madam Speaker had to be sworn-in as Acting President. So, as I indicated in the morning, I think we should all commend the Presidency for listening to what ought to have been done in the earlier instance.

    Mr President - [Interruptions.] Mr Speaker, the resort to this vehicle today, we must all appreciate, has not been done before. It is an unchartered terrain; we do know that it is a tight rope that we are walking.

    Mr Speaker, what we are doing today derives its strength, as we indicated in the morning, from article 60 (8) of the Constitution, as well as 60 (11) and (12). In the case of article 60 (8), the provision is clear. Whenever the President is absent from Ghana or for any other reason unable to perform the functions of his office, the Vice-President shall perform the functions of the President until the President returns or is able to perform his functions.”

    Mr Speaker, noticeably, there are two legs to article 60 (8), that is, whenever the President is physically absent from the jurisdiction or whenever he is unable for any other reason to perform his functions, the Vice-President assumes office.

    When the President, the Vice-President and as per article 60 (11) and also unable to perform the functions of the President, the Speaker shall assume such functions.

    Mr Speaker, it is relevant to observe

    that in the case of the Speaker, in assuming the office, he combines two offices; the President and the Vice-President. So, our

    Speaker, after tomorrow 7.00 a.m. will be performing two functions as the President and the Vice President - [Hear! Hear!] So, it is a very important position that our Speaker will be ascending to tomorrow after 7.00 a.m.

    Mr Speaker, as I said, there are two ways left for us; the one is to wait until 7.00 a.m. after the departure of the President and have the Speaker sworn-in. That indeed, is the ideal and it has been the thing that this House has done on an earlier occasion.

    Mr Speaker, the other time, there was indeed, a long time lapse, that was unacceptable.

    Today, there was an attempt to cure what happened the previous time. Mr Speaker, they are practical matters that should concern us in deciding to swear- in the Speaker earlier than the departure time or post-departure time. And as I have said, we have not chartered this territory before; we are not pretending to be doing or be complying with the letter of the Constitution; we intend to comply with the spirit.

    It was seen that even the Oaths that were administered were amended. The 0aths are not in the Second Schedule of the Constitution and that clearly should indicate to us that what we are doing, we are walking a tight rope.

    But having said that, because as I said the other time, we should be eternally grateful to God even for little mercies, we should be thanking God for the position our Speaker will be assuming post - 7.00 o'clock tomorrow. Until we get there, my congratulations to our Speaker, but the congratulations will be upheld until

    I wish her well in her future endeavours.

    Majority Leader (Mr Cletus A.

    Avoka): Mr Speaker, our Madam has just been sworn-in to serve as the Acting President of the Republic of Ghana with effect from tomorrow, the 10th of November 2010 at 7.00 in the forenoon.

    Indeed, this is the second time in less

    Mr Speaker, given the background, the noble background of Madam Speaker, as a former Director of Public Prosecutions, as a former Second Deputy Speaker of the Consultative Assembly, a retired Supreme Court Judge and now, substantive Speaker of this august House, who has interacted with the people's representatives for two years now, I know that within the short period that she is going to be there tomorrow, she would take far-reaching decisions. She would be able to take far-reaching decisions that would benefit not just Members of this august House but the entire Ghanaian population and particularly women.

    I want to take this opportunity to join

    my Colleague the Hon Minority Leader in congratulating Madam Speaker, for this high position and wish her well in the acting capacity.

    I would also want to seize this opportunity to thank and commend the Chief Justice for bearing with us, and at a very short notice, normally accepting our invitation to be here to swear-in Madam Speaker.

    I would also want to thank His

    Excellency the President for giving us sufficient notice for us to galvanise ourselves and to perform this ceremony.

    On that note, Mr Speaker, I thank you so much and the time now reading at five minutes after 3.00 o'clock in the afternoon, I beg to move, that we now adjourn proceedings of this august House until 10.00 o'clock tomorrow morning, before we Sit again.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:05 p.m.
    Thank you
    very much, Hon Majority Leader. Hon Members, it is after 2.00 o'clock
    and therefore, the Hon Majority Leader cannot move a Motion for adjournment - [Uproar!] The decision is mine, the decision to adjourn this House is mine.
    Hon Members, on that note this House
    is adjourned till tomorrow at 10.00 o'clock in the forenoon.
    Thank you very much for your support and co-operation.
    Hon Members, because our Speaker
    is still the Speaker -- In fact, she is still in- charge of this House; I am still the First Deputy Speaker and the Second Deputy Speaker is still the Second Deputy Speaker; she would do the normal procession out of the House.
    Thank you very much.
    ADJOURNMENT 3:05 p.m.