Debates of 1 Mar 2016

MR SPEAKER
PRAYERS

Mr Speaker
Hon Members, the Votesand Proceedings of Friday, 26th February,2016 is not ready, so, we would move onto the Official Report of Tuesday, 23rdFebruary, 2016. [No correction was made to theOfficial Report of Tuesday, 23rdFebruary, 2016.]
Mr Speaker
At the Commencementof Public Business. Hon Deputy Majority Leader?
Mr Alfred K. Agbesi
Mr Speaker, itemnumber 5 (a).
Mr Speaker
Hon Deputy MajorityLeader, if you have some applications,make them at the same time.
Mr Agbesi
Very well. Mr Speaker, I seek your permission tolay the Paper on behalf of the HonMajority Leader and Leader of the House.
Mr Speaker
Hon Members, presen-tation of Papers -- item number 5(a).
PAPERS

Mr Speaker
Item number 5(b), by theMinister for Defence.
Mr Agbesi
Mr Speaker, with yourpermission and the indulgence of theHouse, could the Hon Minister forPetroleum lay the Papers in items 5(b) and5 (c) on behalf of the Hon Minister forDefence and the Minister for Transportrespectively?
Mr Daniel Botwe
Mr Speaker, we haveno objection. Item number 5(b) isstatistically positioned.
Mr Speaker
Very well.
By the Minister for Petroleum (MrEmmanuel Armah-Kofi Buah) (on behalfof the Minister for Defence) -- Framework Agreement between theGovernment of the Republic ofGhana and the Government of theRepublic of Turkey on Cooperationin Military Fields of Training,Technique and Science.
Mr Speaker
Hon Members, sorry.Which Committee handles item 5 (b)? Is itthe Committee on Defence and Interior?
Referred to the Committee on Defenceand the Interior. By the Minister for Petroleum (MrEmmanuel Armah-Kofi Buah) (on behalfof the Minister for Transport) --
Request for approval of Ghana'sMembership of the Gulf of GuineaCommission. Referred to the joint Committee onConstitutional, Legal and ParliamentaryAffairs and the Committee on Roads andTransport.
Mr Speaker
Item number 5 (d)
Mr Agbesi
Mr Speaker, here again, wewould seek your permission for theDeputy Minister for Finance to lay thePaper on behalf of the Minister forFinance.
Mr Speaker
Hon Minority ChiefWhip?
Mr Botwe
Mr Speaker, we have noobjection.
By the Deputy Minister for Finance (MrCassiel A. B. Forson) (on behalf of theMinister for Finance) -- Treaty to the Second MillenniumChallenge Compact between theUnited States of America, actingthrough the Millennium ChallengeCorporation, and the Governmentof the Republic of Ghana, operatingthrough the Millennium Develop-ment Authority (MiDA) for a grantamount of four hundred and ninety-eight million, two hundredthousand United States dollars(US$ 498, 2000) and a Governmentof Ghana contribution of thirty-
seven million, three hundred andsixty-five thousand United Statesdollars (US$37,365,000). Referred to the Finance Committee.
Mr Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Item number 5 (e) (i) (ii)and (iii), by the Hon Minister for Petroleum. By the Minister for Petroleum --
(i) Petroleum Agreement by andamong the Government of theRepublic of Ghana, GhanaNational Petroleum Corporation,GNPC Exploration and ProductionCompany Limited, ENI GhanaExploration and ProductionLimited, Vitol Upstream TanoLimited and WoodfieldsUpstream Limited in respect ofthe Conduct of Exploration andProduction Operations in theCape Three Points Block 4Offshore Ghana. (ii) Petroleum Agreement by andamong the Government of theRepublic of Ghana, GhanaNational Petroleum Corporation,Swiss African Oil CompanyLimited and Pet Volta InvestmentsLimited in respect of the Conductof Exploration and ProductionOperations in the Onshore/Offshore Keta Delta Block of theRepublic of Ghana. (iii)Petroleum Agreement by andamong the Government of theRepublic of Ghana, GhanaNational Petroleum Corporation,GNPC Exploration and ProductionCompany Limited and SpringfieldExploration and ProductionLimited in respect of the Conductof Exploration and ProductionOperations in the West Cape
Mr Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Deputy Majority Leader? [Pause.]
Mr Agbesi 10:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I did not getyour direction.
Mr Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon Deputy MajorityLeader, you called that we should dopresentation of Papers. We have nowfinished with item number 5(e). Are wetaking (f) and (g)? If we are not takingthem, tell me what to do. If the Papers arenot ready, tell me. If they are ready, let meknow.
Mr Agbesi 10:40 a.m.
Very well. Mr Speaker, the Business in item --
Mr Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon Deputy MajorityLeader, is item number 5(f) ready to belaid?
Mr Agbesi 10:40 a.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker 10:40 a.m.
What about item number5(g)?
Mr Agbesi 10:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, it is alsoready to be laid.
Mr Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon Members, itemnumber 5(f), by the Chairman of theCommittee.
By the Chairman of the Committee -- Report of the Committee on Gender andChildren on “Kayayei” PhenomenonGhana. Report of the Committee onEmployment, Social Welfare andState Enterprises on the operationsand Financial Performance of stateowned Enterprises in 2012.
Mr Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon Deputy MajorityLeader?
Mr Agbesi 10:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, due to the visitof the Turkish President to the House, wethink that we should defer item number 6now, and move to item number 14,Chartered Institute of Taxation Bill, 2014,at the Consideration Stage.
Mr Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon Minority ChiefWhip, was that the understanding thismorning, that we defer item number 6?
Mr Botwe 10:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, yes, that wasthe understanding. We agreed that wewould take item number 14.
Mr Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Very well. Hon Members, item number 14 on theOrder Paper; Chartered Institute ofTaxation Bill, 2014 at the ConsiderationStage.
BILLS -- CONSIDERATIONSTAGE 10:40 a.m.

Mr Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Where is the Chairmanof the Committee? Have you resolved clause 1, whichindicates that the debate would continue?If that is not resolved, then what clauseare we looking at? [Interruption.]
Mr Mathias A. Puozaa 10:40 a.m.
We have, MrSpeaker -- [Pause.] Mr Speaker, it is supposed to beChartered Institute of Taxation, Ghana.
Mr Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon Member for Sekondi,what is all this “chartered” thing about?Do we really need the word “charter”?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, itseems that we are caught up with whatwe inherited from our colonial masters. Technically speaking, it is the Crownthat charters. So, for countries like Ghanato be still talking about “chartered”, I donot understand.
Mr Speaker, I raised the issue oncewhen we were dealing with the CharteredInstitute of Marketing. I was the Ministerthen. I asked what the need was for this“chartered”. We can have Institute ofTaxation, Ghana --
Mr Speaker 10:40 a.m.
-- Or Ghana Institute ofTaxation.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:40 a.m.
GhanaInstitute of Taxation, just like we have theChartered Institute of Accountants --
Mr Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Institute of CharteredAccountants, Ghana?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:40 a.m.
Yes, Ghana. Itis -- [Interruption.] -- Whatever. But we can do away with it, except that,we may have guidance from the HonMinister -- [Interruption.]
An Hon Member 10:40 a.m.
But where is the HonMinister?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:40 a.m.
The HonMinister is not here. This is education and,it is being piloted by the Minister forEducation, not the Ministry of Finance.
Mr Joe Ghartey 10:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, indeed,if the Hon Chairman of the FinanceCommittee is going to agree with HonPapa Owusu-Ankomah, then, I would takemy seat, but he is shaking his headvigorously, so, I think I must proceed andmake my point. I could not agree with him more whenhe raised it, and I also supported him;this is a relic of colonialism. We mustemancipate ourselves from mental slavery.
We must not borrow terms or use termsjust because they are fashionable in otherjurisdictions: “Chartered” is a process by which theCrown confers on you a certain status --
Mr Speaker 10:50 a.m.
It is called a RoyalCharter.
Mr Ghartey 10:50 a.m.
That is the point, MrSpeaker. There is no royalty in Ghana.Thereis no queen, royalty in that sense.When Isaid there is no royalty in Ghana,somebody said “ah”. Let me choose mywords carefully. There are several chiefswho are royals, but there is no one royaltyof the nation Ghana, or one king or queenof the nation Ghana who can confer thatspecial status of a royal charter on aninstitution. So, what is the purpose of this word? Iwould urge the Hon Chairman-- A verygood Member of Parliament and a veryhonourable person to do the honourablething and withdraw this “chartered”business. Sorry! I was looking at the HonChairman of the Finance Committee. TheHon Chairman of the Education Committeeis with me, so, I rest my case. Heshould withdraw “charter” so that we geton with business.
Mr James Klutse Avedzi 10:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker,the word “chartered” as has beenexplained, being conferred on a body or amember, actually distinguishes theseinstitutions from others. In Ghana, there are other bodies thatare coming up which are also doing thework of taxation, so, for us to have a lawthat would distinguish this institution fromothers, that it is the only institution inGhana established by an Act ofParliament, which regulates the activities

of practitioners of taxation in Ghana, andthey are also taking a cue from what wehave already, which is the institute of --
Mr Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Why, if we do not usethe word “charter”, can they not regulatethe practice of taxation in Ghana?
Mr Avedzi 10:50 a.m.
I said that they regulate,but Mr Speaker, the word “chartered”gives the practitioners who are beingconferred this opportunity some kind ofleverage. A person feels proud that he is achartered tax practitioner. Those of us who are professionalaccountants, once they say we arechartered accountants, it gives us somekind of leverage, we feel proud and itencourages us to even workharder toattain that confirmation. That is why we prefer and appreciatethe word “chartered”. So, in my view, I donot think that it would cause anythingdifferent if we maintain the word“chartered”. This is to differentiate it fromother institutions that are also practisingtaxation in Ghana.
Dr Matthew Opoku Prempeh 10:50 a.m.
MrSpeaker, I thought the Hon Chairman ofthe Finance Committee would follow thegood cue from Hon Papa Owusu-Ankomah and the Hon Second DeputySpeaker. Mr Speaker, in this country, we havesome allegiance to the Crown, so, weborrow everything from the Crown. Evenin the United Kingdom, it is not all thosewho have been given the Royal Charterstatus or the royal prerogative who havetended to refer to themselves as“chartered.”
Mr Speaker, I am a member of the RoyalCollege of Surgeons, which also got its“charter” in the 1600s. In the UnitedKingdom, doctors are not referred to aschartered medical practitioners, but theyare also chartered, just like theAccountants. In Ghana, when we were doing theGhana College of Physicians and Sur-geons Bill, we did not say CharteredCollege of Physicians and Surgeons. Wesaid Ghana College of Physicians andSurgeons. It is what is in the law thatmatters, not what is in the name, so, if weare establishing an institute for regulationin Ghana, let us recognise that this is theGhana Institute of Taxation. They might establish links andcollaborations with the United KingdomInstitute and for that matter, the worldinstitute, but it is not the word “charter”that is giving them the recognitions. It isthe power that the law gives to theRegulatory authority. That is what it is. Doctors are not referred to as“chartered doctors”. Lawyers are also not“chartered” lawyers. Mr Speaker, let us say Ghana Instituteof Taxation --
Mr Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Hon Members, what Iintend doing is to defer this matter.Consider whether we would like tocontinue this ‘charter' business and itssignificance for us. Really, what are thelegal implications? Has it got any legalsignificance at all? Let me defer this matter and proceedfurther. So, I would go to clause 4. Clause 4, have you resolved theissue?
Mr Puozaa 10:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I would liketo plead that we maintain --
Mr Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Mr Chairman.
Mr Puozaa 10:50 a.m.
I said the Committee wouldlike us to maintain the word “chartered”,because that is what the members of theAssociation; that is what they want.
Mr Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Hon Chairman, do notworry. If we agree, we would put theQuestion on it for you tomorrow, buttoday, I would like to defer it. Do not worry about it, but if youinsist -- Have you resolved the issue onclause 4?
Mr Puozaa 10:50 a.m.
Yes, we have done that.
Mr Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Then we should moveto clause 5. Chairman of the Committee,have you resolved the issue? The debatewould continue.
Mr Puozaa 10:50 a.m.
Clause 4 was resolved, butthe vote was not taken.
Mr Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Hon Chairman of theCommittee, there is a debate to continue.I would want to know whether you haveresolved the issue and why the Motionwas deferred, so that I can put theQuestion. That was why I asked youwhether you have resolved the issue forwhich reason the Question was not put?
Mr Puozaa 10:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I think weneed to make some corrections.
Mr Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Yes, Vice Chairman?
Mr Peter Nortsu-Kotoe 10:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker,the difficulty was with subclause (2),whether the resignation letter of a membershould go through the Minister or thePresident of the Institute.
That was the bone of contention, andwe suggested that the subclause (2)should read “a member of the council may at anytime resign from office by writing tothe President through the HonMinister”.
That is what the Committee proposesas the amendment. Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker 10:50 a.m.
The amendment I havethere is clause 4 (1), delete and insert thefollowing: We are not talking about sub-clause (2) at this stage. We are talkingabout the amendment that has beenadvertised on the Order Paper, and I amasking whether the issue has beenresolved with regard to the amendmentthere, because under it, it says “Chairmanof the Committee, debate to continue”. I would like to find out whether youhave resolved it for me to put theQuestion.
Mr Nortsu-Kotoe 10:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, it wasresolved. The way the order was put,the last time we met, as the Committeerecommended, it should be in that orderas it is on the Order Paper now. It has been resolved, so, the vote canbe taken.
Mr Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Hon Members, should Iput the Question? Hon Member for Manhyia South?
Dr Prempeh 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I wanted tomove an amendment for us to drop the 4(1) (a), “a chairperson with expertise intaxation.” Mr Speaker, we have an institute thathas a president who is an expert intaxation. We have the institute nominatingfour members. We have even the Ministernominating two members of the Institute.
Mr Speaker 11 a.m.
Hon Members, do weneed to qualify it? Why do we not justput “a chairman”? If they go and theythink that it should be a person of expertisein taxation, that would be their decision.If it should be a jurist, that should not bea problem. We should be more flexibleabout it. This is because we should also be verycareful for it not to be dominated by thepeople in the Institute, because they are
going to regulate the practice of taxation.If they are the same people who are goingto dominate the Council, it creates asituation where they might not be veryeffective in the discharge of theirregulatory function. Let us just leave it to them, in order tocreate some flexibility there. Hon Chairman of the Committee, whatdo you say?
Mr Puozaa 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, we do agree.But this clause was added to make surethat whoever is being made thechairman --
Mr Speaker 11 a.m.
What do you mean by“expertise in taxation”?
Mr Puozaa 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, he should bea tax practitioner.
Mr Speaker 11 a.m.
So, he would be anautomatic member of the Institute?
Mr Puozaa 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I wouldsuggest that we leave it as it is.
Mr Speaker 11 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member?
Ms Rosemund Comfort Abrah 11 a.m.
Thankyou, Mr Speaker. In answer to your question, whetherthe Chairman is an automatic member, wedebated at length on it and concludedthat he is not. They claim that there couldbe the case of practitioners who wouldnot be members of the Chartered Institute.
Mr Speaker 11 a.m.
Who is an expert intaxation? When you pass your taxationexamination at the Ghana School of Lawand you work at the Ghana RevenueAuthority (GRA), does that make you anexpert?
Ms Abrah 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, according tothem, they ascertained that there were tobe lots of “quacks” who are practisingthe profession of taxation but are notlicensed. They have given the criterionfor licensing. If a member goes throughthat criterion, it would give him or her theexpertise they have stated.
Mr Speaker 11 a.m.
Hon Member for AkatsiNorth?
Mr Nortsu-Kotoe 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, we havelistened to the arguments. We think thephrase which goes with expertise intaxation could be deleted, so that we donot tie the hands of the appointingauthority in the selection of a chairperson. Once we have a president who hasknowledge in taxation, we should make it“a chairperson”, so that we can moveforward.
Dr Anthony Akoto Osei 11 a.m.
Thank you,Mr Speaker. First, I agree with the Hon Member fromAkatsi North. If you take the GRA, forexample, majority of the people who workthere are not necessarily tax experts. Ithink it would be useful to delete that partof it. The second point relates to my goodChairman's point; that is what the peoplewant. Mr Speaker, as we look at the Board, itis becoming an incestuous one. It isdominated by the members who aresupposed to regulate themselves and thatshould not happen. The President, the VicePresident and four other members arejudges in their own court. It is not thebest of corporate governance and weshould seek to change that.
Mr Speaker 11 a.m.
If we make the Councildominated by the same people, how canwe regulate them? This is a regulatorybody, how can we regulate them, HonMembers? The same people we want toregulate are dominating the institute, howcan they be regulated efficiently andeffectively?
Mr Puozaa 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, we really tookcognisance of the over bloated numbersof member of the profession. But we triedto inject a number of new faces. For instance, we have nominationsfrom the Ministry of Education, Ministryof Finance, the Attorney-General'sDepartment and the Ministry of Justiceand two other members to be appointedby the Minister, and these are notnecessarily members.
Mr Speaker 11 a.m.
Hon Members, I wouldwant you to take a look at this Council, itis a regulatory body. It is supposed toregulate the people practising taxation inthis country. If we look at:
a. a chairperson with expertise intaxation; b. the President; c. the Vice President; d. four members of the institute; e. one representative fromacademia with specialisation ina taxation - related field. He mightend up being a member of theInstitute.
Apart from (f), then (g): two membersof the Institute again. Hon Deputy Minister, let me hear fromyou, then come back to the Hon Memberfor Manhyia South.
Mr Speaker 11 a.m.
Is that the policy behindthe Bill, that they should be self-regulatory? If it is self-regulatory, thenthey do not need the law. If they want toregulate themselves, then they shouldform their association and regulatethemselves. Hon Deputy Minister?
Mr Ablakwa 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the law isneeded, because they would have themandate and the legal backing to carryout this Regulation. If it is a looseassociation, they would still be quitechaotic in the field. That was why afterthe stakeholders forum, we thought thatthis was the best way forward.
Dr Prempeh 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, this is notthe first professional body that has beenregulated by this House. We haveregulated pharmacists, psychologists,doctors and a lot of others. The argumentdoes not hold. Mr Speaker, we have agreed that, theChairman should not be an expert. If wesay an “expert in taxation”, there are otherexperts in taxation who would not belong
Mr Speaker 11:10 a.m.
If it is self-regulatory asan association or group, then we do notneed the Ministry's representatives,because they would be members of thatgroup who practice taxation and regulatethemselves.
Dr Prempeh 11:10 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Board isnot involved in the Regulation; they areinvolved in the policy. The members areto be called members of the GhanaInstitute of Taxation through examina-tions and some history of work. That iswhy they call them to become members oftaxation and that is what the President andthe Vice President within the Council willdo. When they come to the Council, thereshould be external eyes that would makesure that they are not being veryincestuous. Mr Speaker, we should lookat this Board and make sure -- If we canmake reference to the College ofPhysicians and Surgeons, Allied HealthCouncil and the Ghana Medical andDental Council Board, the ones we havedone that regulate practice, we would
see what we mean. The Regulation is notmaking only members of the Institute ofTaxation 10 out of 15 members of theBoard. That is wrong.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11:10 a.m.
Mr Speaker, asfar as I am aware, members of theGoverning Council of the Ghana Medicaland Dental Council are professionaldoctors related to medicine. It is the samewith the Pharmacy Council. In the legalprofession, it is the same. In the General Legal Council, we do nothave non-lawyers being members as faras I know. When it comes to regulatingprofessions, it is professionals whoregulate professions. However, that is not to say that,bringing others may not help. But to saythat, it is a professional association andthe members of the profession -- Theyknow the standards and the ethics of theprofession. How can a non-professionalknow the ethics of any profession? Mr Speaker, I do not think that thatshould be the thrust of the argument. Ifas a House, we believe that the time hascome for us to involve others, becausethere may be general policy conside-rations, that is fair enough. Mr Speaker, this is an existing instituteof professional tax practitioners. If youeven look at the memorandum, they haverepresentatives of the West Africa Boardof Taxation et cetera but they --[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Does the existing onehave a legal backing?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11:10 a.m.
They do not.That is why this Bill is being introduced.
Mr Speaker, in these ones, because wehave public policy interest, for example,we have representatives from the Ministryof Finance, Ministry of Education --[Interruption] That is why they are there.We have the Attorney-General's repre-sentative. So, in terms of public policyinterest, that is fine. If we believe that there is the need fora Member of Parliament to also be amember of the Board in terms of itsregulation, there is nothing wrong with it.But to say that, it is dominated byprofessionals -- That is the purpose ofthis Association. On the Ghana Medical and DentalCouncil issue, I do not know of any non-professional, except of course, probablya lawyer -- [Interruption.] There arelawyers. How many lawyers? How manynon-pharmacists are on the PharmacyCouncil? All professional associations registeredunder the professional bodies aredominated by professions. Unless thereis evidence to support this particularargument, I would not be persuaded atall. We have to take decisions frominformed positions. Mr William O. Boafo-- rose --
Mr Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Let me listen to the HonMember for Akwapim North. Then wewould go back to look at the propositionand after listening to the Hon Member forSekondi, we would go back and look atwhat is in the Bill and the proposedamendment. Hon Member for Akwapim North?
Mr Boafo 11:10 a.m.
Mr Chairman, I just want toemphasise what the Hon Member forSekondi said. Mr Speaker, it appears thatwhen it is a professional body, theprofessionals on the Regulatory body willappreciate and understand the issues
Mr Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon Members, at thispoint, you have made enough argument.The sense of the House clearly, andlistening to the Hon Deputy Minister whospoke from the Ministry's perspective andthe Hon Member for Sekondi, we shouldretain the original rendition in the Bill.
Dr A. A. Osei 11:10 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the originalrendition would go contrary to the senseof the argument we are hearing. Eight plustwo is even more. Plus the President andthe Vice President, that would even makeit more dominant. If it is the same Bill, eightplus two is ten and with the President andthe Vice President, it is 12. It is evenworse. That is my worry.
Mr Speaker, I need to be educated. Theamendments use terms like “expertise intaxation or specialisation in taxation --related field”. Could we get someunderstanding of what that means?
Mr Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon Members, I believethe original rendition in the Bill brings outwhat they would want to achieve with theBill than the breaking down of thePresident, Vice President, two membersfrom the Institute -- They are all membersof the Institute. So collectively taken, they are sayingthat eight members of the Institute. Youwould want to reduce it to make it sevenor six -- but you know that the focus ison the Institute. If you look at what is in the Bill, it comesout clearer. Then you know that you aretalking about the members of the Institute.This is a professional body; these arepeople we would want to put there toregulate their own profession so that itcomes out clearer. But breaking downPresident, Vice President, two members,you have four members, but all of themare members of the Institute, and you arevirtually saying the same thing but indifferent paragraphs. I do not -- If you look at what is in the Bill, it isclearer as to what they really would wantto achieve. But when you look at thebreakdown, then it confuses people. Hon Deputy Minister, what do yousay? The Hon Chairman then the HonMembers for Wa West and Old Tafo.
Mr Ablakwa 11:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker, we areinclined to go with your guidance oncethe composition will be the same and itwill be dominated by the members of theInstitute and the policy of self-regulationwill still be the watchword. We are alrightwith your guidance.
Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Yes, Chairman of theCommittee, do you agree with the HonDeputy Minister?
Mr Puozaa 11:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker, we do.
Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member for WaWest?
Mr Joseph Yieleh Chireh 11:20 a.m.
MrSpeaker, you said that what is in the Billlooks clearer than the proposed amend-ment. It was discussed extensively at theConsideration Stage by the Committee.The idea is that, as I hear some of my HonColleagues say, it is self-regulatory andat the same time, a training institution. If we look at the Nigerian example, inGhana, the case of the Institute ofChartered Accountants, they are similar.So they do regulatory jobs but at the sametime, they train, qualify and certify peopleto practise. The debate was how to compose itsuch that we will get the professionalismin the Council. At the same time, we willget Government representatives who playa key role. That is why we have therepresentation from the Government side. So, it is not something completely new.If we look at the Institute of CharteredAccountants, it is similar. They also lookedat the practices in other Commonwealthcountries, in particular, the Nigerian onewas what they looked at. I believe that,the amendment was considered in thelight of best practices elsewhere.
Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member for OldTafo, do you have a comment before I callthe Hon Deputy Minister?
Dr A. A. Osei 11:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker, in agreeingwith you, I thought they were going toeducate me. I support you, especially,when some new language is introduced
in the amendment which creates a problem.For example, ‘specialisation in taxation-related field'. What is that? I could teach a course in taxation; doesit mean I am a specialist? The people whowork in Ghana Revenue Authority (GRA)who will be doing -- I could do my own taxes; does that makeme an expert? In my view, this amendment might bringproblems that we should be careful about.If that is the intent of the Bill, it is clearerand I know that it is a self-regulatory bodyand I can deal with that better.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker, infact, the amendment seeks to --
Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Are you a member of theCommittee?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11:20 a.m.
Yes, I am amember of the Education Committee and Iparticipated actively in the work of theCommittee when we considered this Bill. Mr Speaker, if we look at theamendment, for instance, we have (e), “onerepresentative of the academia withspecialisation in a taxation-related fieldnominated by the Committee of Vice-Chancellors of public Universities.” The rationale is to assess and qualifypersons to be members of this association.They deal with curriculum. So, thisamendment rather enriches the focus ofthe governing body so that we introducea level of academic expertise. Mr Speaker, we know that even in theGhana School of Law, we have Lawyerswho teach taxation. They are experts. DrKunbuor can be described as an expert intaxation.
Mr Speaker, taxation is a multi-facetedfield 11:20 a.m.
you have Lawyers, Accountants,Academics — persons in GRA who maynot necessarily have any academicqualification when it comes to taxation,but through practice, they becomeexperts.
Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Hon Member for Sekondi,can we not achieve that purpose byreducing the eight (8) slots in the Bill toseven (7) and create one from theacademia with specialisation in taxationfor the sake of the argument that you aremaking?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker,that can also work. Mr Speaker, we have‘the Chairperson with expertise intaxation', President of the Institute electedby the members of the Council, VicePresident, four members of the Institute,one representative of the academia, thenwe have one representative of theMinistry of Education, Ministry ofFinance, Attorney-General, et cetera. Mr Speaker, really, I do not seeanything wrong with the amendmentexcept of course, because we now havePresident, the Vice President, et cetera --
Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Hon Members, if youlook at what is in the original Bill and whatwe are looking at in the amendment, thereis no major difference. The only area ofdeparture really is the 4 (1) (a) in theamendment, that is a Chairperson withexpertise in taxation. The Bill says the Chairman should beelected from among the group of taxationpractitioners, which makes it moreprofessional and more independent, thatthey themselves will go and elect their ownchairman at an Annual General Meeting.That is what is suggested in the Bill.
If we look at it, the President and theVice President of the Institute, add up totwo. Four members of the Institute, thatmakes it six. So, if we want to get a personfrom academia, the focus should be onthe academia, and put it in black and whitethat, ‘somebody with specialisation intaxation from the academia' and reduce thenumber from eight to seven. Then thefocus, as you argued earlier, would be themembers of the Institute.
Mr Ablakwa 11:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker, there is alsothe practical challenge of members of theacademia, the specialisation that we arelooking for those members in academia willalso belong to the Association. So, I wantto raise this for discussion to see how wecan address that. This is because --
Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
You made an argumentthat a member in academia might notnecessarily belong to the profession. So,for the avoidance of doubt, you want toget somebody from the academia, so asto keep a certain academic standard.Otherwise, they will elect eight people andnone of them will be from the academia. When you put it there, then, at least,one of them will be somebody from theacademia. Maybe, that is the argumentthat is being made.
Mr Ablakwa 11:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I get thatsense. So, if we can probably put in acaveat that, “a member from academia whois not a member of the Association.”
Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
“Or one of them from theacademia.”
Mr Ablakwa 11:20 a.m.
One of them from theacademia, who is not a member of theAssociation. This is because, from theexamples that have been given, I knowHon Dr Kunbuor is a member of theAssociation, I know Hon Joe Ghartey is
also a member of this Association and hecan qualify from the academia becausehe teaches taxation at the Ghana Schoolof Law. So, we would have to look at that; ifnot, we will just be duplicating our efforts.They are already members of theAssociation.
Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Mr Second DeputySpeaker,come and take the Chair.
Mr Joe Ghartey 11:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker, did yousay I should come and take the Chair? Ithought you were going to give me theopportunity to respond, but I am on myway.
Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Very well, I will listen toyou.
Mr Ghartey 11:20 a.m.
I just caught the tail partof what Hon Ablakwa said. He mentionedmy name and said that, I am a member ofthis Association and so --
Mr Ablakwa 11:30 a.m.
Yes. We are consideringif we should include membership of thegoverning council from the academia --you just raised the practical challenge ofthose in academia also belonging to theAssociation. So, what we are trying to achieve isalready in practice, unless you think thatthere are some members in academia whodo not necessarily belong to theassociation. If that is the case, we mighthave to couch it in such a way that --
Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Are you a member of theassociation, Hon Second DeputySpeaker?
Mr Ghartey 11:30 a.m.
I have been invited totake up membership.
Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
You have been invited?
Mr Ghartey 11:30 a.m.
I have been invited totake up membership and I --
Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Have you taken it?
Mr Ghartey 11:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I was goingto discuss it with you before --
Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
This is because you haveto disclose your interest on the floorbefore you take the Chair.
Mr Ghartey 11:30 a.m.
I have not taken it yet.
Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Very well.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11:30 a.m.
I have alsobeen invited to become an honorary fellowjust like the Hon Second Deputy Speaker.This is by virtue of our broad experiencein the legal profession, parliamentary work,and the fact that, when it comes totaxation, almost every lawyer at a certainstage takes an interest. So, “an honorary fellow”, that is howit is going to be described. Not that wehave gone for an examination ofproficiency et cetera. Certainly, the HonMember for Manhyia South cannot be anhonorary fellow. [Laughter.]
Dr Prempeh 11:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I can be anhonorary fellow if the body decides toinvite me. I just showed the Hon Memberfrom Sekondi my membership of thegoverning council of the General MedicalCouncil in the United Kingdom (UK). There is an example we set up nicely inGhana that regulates professional doctorsand the Hon Deputy Minister forEducation might care to take a look. Weknew of all these things strategically andthey are all very similar.
Mr Bagbin 11:32 a.m.
Mr Speaker, let me alsodisclose my interest in this matter. I amalso an honorary fellow. I was invited; Iaccepted the invitation. So, I am a fellow.I have disclosed my interest. I can nowproceed to make my point. I was wondering why we included boththe President and Vice President of theInstitute. I do not know why both havebeen proposed as members of thegoverning body. I thought that if thepresident is there, the Vice Presidentshould not be there. I have to beconvinced why we need both of them. I would propose that it is proper forthe President to be there but improper toalso have his Vice sitting on the samegoverning body with him. So, we coulddo away with the proposed clause 4 (1)(c).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:32 a.m.
HonMember, are you proposing that thereshould be no Vice President?
Mr Bagbin 11:32 a.m.
Mr Speaker, there couldbe a Vice President but he should not be amember of the governing body. This isbecause, the president is a member of thegoverning body. They have theirexecutives; they have the president,
treasurer and other members. Now, we areforming a governing body of the Instituteand we want both the president and thevice-president to be on that body; I thinkthat is improper. The president should bethere but not the Vice-President.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:32 a.m.
Both thepresident and the vice President attendCabinet meetings at the national level. Ifthe Vice President is present with thePresident, governance wise, is thereanything wrong with it?
Mr Bagbin 11:32 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I think thatthere is something wrong with it becausewe have the command structure. If MrSpeaker is in a governing body, I do notthink that it would be proper for theDeputy Speaker to also be in the samebody.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:32 a.m.
StandingOrders Committee --
Mr Bagbin 11:32 a.m.
The Parliamentary ServiceBoard is a typical example.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:32 a.m.
That hasa unique history and you know it.
Mr Bagbin 11:32 a.m.
It is not a unique situation,but it cuts across the Public Servicebecause of the issue of commandstructure. That is my position. Until I amconvinced - if I differ from that position, Ithink that I am right.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:32 a.m.
TheCouncil for the Attorney-General'sDepartment, the Attorney-General is amember -- Is there any Deputy Attorney-General here? Is the Hon DeputyAttorney-General a member? I cannotrecollect. [Interruption.] The UniversityCouncil -- [Interruption.] All right, noproblem, I will not continue. I would cometo you, Hon Ablakwa, but let me hear fromHon William Ofori Boafo.
Mr Boafo 11:32 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the referencemade by the Hon Majority Leader aboutthe fact that, the president and the vicepresident cannot serve on the governingbody is not a strange arrangement. Wehave a similar arrangement on the GeneralLegal Council which is the governingbody for the legal practitioners in thecountry. It had worked alright for many years.The national president and vice Presidentare both members of the General LegalCouncil. This is also a professional bodyand I do not see anything wrong with thatarrangement.
Mr Chireh 11:32 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the argumentof the Hon Majority Leader would havebeen correct if it was strictly a commandposition. This is a professional body. Ifyou look at the original bill, they were tobe elected at a general meeting. The ideais that, if you have ordinary people ormembers of the Institute as Members ofthe Council or Board, then the vice-president is outside and if there is anyproblem with the president, who takescontrol? Why do you have a vice-president?You have a Vice-President to step in whenthe president is unable to perform hisfunctions. In my view, there is no conflictabout command structure. If you look atthe Bill, originally, the vice-president wasto be elected. The issue about electionand serving on the Board was the reasonthe amendment was made. But thereshould be no conflict because the VicePresident is a member. The Hon Member likened it toParliament but it is not, strictly speaking aparliamentary relationship. It is about aprofessional body and I think that oncewe have the vice President on the Council,any time there is a problem, there shouldbe somebody who has control over the
regulatory body. It is most appropriate thatwe have the vice president as a member ofthe Council.
Prof. George Y. Gyan-Baffour 11:40 a.m.
MrSpeaker, I share the view of the HonMajority Leader. There are manyinstitutions where you have both the bossand his deputy as members. Usually, theboss is the chairman of the Board and thenthe deputy becomes a member. Just likethe Bank of Ghana, the Governor is theChairman but the deputy governors areall members of the Board. Mr Speaker, if you make the Governorand the Deputy Governor members of theBoard, the command and control structureis actually undermined. That is exactlywhat the Hon Majority Leader is trying todrive at and I support his position.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
So, thepoint the Hon Majority Leader is making-- Hon Majority Leader, you shouldengage the services of Hon Prof. Gyan-Baffour as your lawyer. This is because Ihave now understood your point. Your point is that, if the Presidentwas the chairperson of the GoverningCouncil, then you may not have anyproblem with the vice president being onthe Council because, it is a step lower. But if the president and the vicepresident are there as equal members withone vote each, the vice president canoutvote the President when he managesto gather a majority and so on. In that case,there might be a problem with commandand control. Is that the thinking of theHon Majority Leader?
Mr Bagbin 11:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, you saw thatI shook my head after the submission ofmy senior Colleague from Wa West.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Is heyour senior at the Bar or senior inParliament?
Mr Bagbin 11:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, he is my seniorin age. At the Bar, he is my student.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
And inParliament, he is your child.
Mr Bagbin 11:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, in Parliamenttoo he is my student.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
This isbecause you do not have an equal. It isonly you and the Hon Minority Leaderwho --
Mr Bagbin 11:40 a.m.
The Hon Minority Leaderis my junior. My mate is Hon Amadu Seidu.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
And theRt Hon Speaker?
Mr Bagbin 11:40 a.m.
The Rt Hon Speaker is mysenior. This is because he is a Speaker --[Interruption] -- At the Bar, I am hissenior. Mr Speaker, I would want to thank Prof.Gyan-Baffour for stressing the issue thatI raised, by adding the very importantpoint that, if the president was the Chairof the Governing Body, then, there wouldbe a need to have a vice president likesome of the bodies that they have beenreferred to. But the Chairperson is also anexpert in taxation. Mr Speaker, I think Hon Members areconfusing two issues. Membership of theExecutive Body, which is elected by theInstitute, is different from the GoverningBody of the Institute. The GoverningBody of the Institute is to be appointed
by the President. But we would want somemembers of the Executive Body to servein the Governing Body of the Institute.The Governing Body has a differentChairperson who is not a member of theExecutive Body of the Institute. From the proposal, that Chairpersonis also to be an expect in taxation. There isno need to have the president of theExecutive Body of the Institute togetherwith the Vice President as members of theGoverning Body. Mr Speaker, I propose that we drop theVice President. Dr Prempeh-- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Yes, HonMember for Manhyia South? After him theHon Member for Ho Central.
Dr Prempeh 11:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the argumentI have been trying to advance thismorning is exactly what the Hon MajorityLeader has made. There is the Institute and there is theGoverning Body of the Institute. TheInstitute is fully made up of members ofthe Chartered Institute of Taxation; thereare no external members and they do theregulation and everything else. When you come to the GoverningBody, there should be more external eyesto make sure that the Institute does whatit must do generally. Mr Speaker, that is why I firstadvocated that, the Chairman should noteven have anything to do with taxation.The President should appoint -- In otherareas, they would even bring an eminentjurist or somebody to look after theGoverning Body. The second issue is that --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
HonMember, let me ask you a question. Inyour profession, the Medical and DentalCouncil, do you have a similar governingarrangement?
Dr Prempeh 11:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I said on thefloor here that, when we did the Councils,especially for the Ghana College ofPhysicians and Surgeons, we took timeto explain this. The Ghana College of Physicians andSurgeons had both Vice Presidents on thebody, because we envisaged that theywould be two divisions; one is forsurgeons and one is for physicians. Thesurgeons would elect their leader and thephysicians would also elect their leader;so they both needed representation of theCouncil. It is different. With the Chartered Institute ofTaxation, it is only one institute; there isnot that separation. So, the Vice Presidentof the Council need not be a member ofthe Council. Mr Speaker, the other issue is that, withthe Chairman of the Ghana College ofPhysicians and Surgeons we made it in away that, he should not even be a doctor.This is because -- Can you just imagine;the President, who has been elected byhis peers, goes to sit in Council and hehas a Chairman appointed by thePresident who is also a member of theInstitute? It is not right. That is why when we come to theGoverning Council, we would want theChairman to be somebody who isprominent or eminent in the society tochair without necessarily having thatentanglement. When we come to somebody fromacademia, it is not proper to putsomebody from academia on that
Regulatory Body. This is because, thatBody -- Chartered Institute of Taxation -- is an all peers one; there areprofessionals who are fellows in thesociety or the Institution. Mr Speaker, when you come toacademia, somebody might have aprofessorship in a small area in taxationwho might not even be warranted here.We have to reduce the Governing Boardto a sizeable Board. We have to make sure that, maybe, it isa seven or nine member Board, five fromoutside, including the Chair and four fromthe Institute, who are the Chairman andothers who would want the Institute todominate. This would make it a smallerBoard with more teeth to bite. The Instituteitself would have the Executive Council,who would set the standards and regulatethemselves. Mr Speaker, we can look at otherexamples.
Mr Benjamin K. Kpodo 11:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker,the position taken by Hon Yieleh Chirehis what I would want to support. It is customary that these types ofinstitutes are both academic andprofessional in nature and provide a lotof training. It is necessary that, topmanagement of the Institute should beabreast at all times of both policy andmanagerial issues such that, whether thepresident is available or not, the vicepresident is still active and does not needto sit outside and get secondhandinformation after Council meetings.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
HonMember, let me point something out toyou. The president is not the Chairman ofthe Council. What you are saying wouldbe very relevant if the President werethe Chairman of the Council. This is
Mr Kpodo 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, there are manyexamples of the positon I am talking of. Inthe universities, we have the Chairman ofCouncil who is not the Vice Chancellor.We have a Vice Chancellor and his ProVice Chancellor all being members of theGoverning Council so that at each time,they are conversant with what policyissues and managerial issues arise. Mr Speaker, it would not inure to thebenefit of the Institute for theVicePresident to be an outsider when theCouncil meets. Mr Speaker, secondly, I would want tosuggest further that, the AdministrativeHead of the Institute, if it is the Secretaryor the Registrar, should be on the Councilas one in attendance and it should clearlybe mentioned, so that he would also havedirect participation in the discussions atCouncil. That is what happens in manyacademic and professional institutions ofthat kind.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Let meconfess that I am not going to put theQuestion on this issue; I will just invitefurther contributions and defer it at theend of the day. This is because, forexample, the Hon Member who last spokeraised another issue which is alsoimportant in his contribution. He said the Administrative Head hasbeen ignored completely as far as this
governing body is concerned. So, let uscontinue and I hope that the Chairman,together with the Ranking Member willpay close attention. Who is the RankingMember and who is the Deputy RankingMember?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker,they are not here. I do not know wherethey have gone to.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Who arethe Members of the Committee? All right.So I will take it that, Hon Papa Owusu-Ankomah is standing in for the HonRanking Member so that we take all thesecontributions on board and have claritywhen we come tomorrow.
Dr A. A. Osei 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I want tofollow-up on the recommendation by myHon Colleague. Before that, however, Iwould want to disagree with my goodFriend, about bringing what obtains in theUniversities directly here. Mr Speaker, Academic Boards of theCouncils of the Universities cannot betransported into this domain, particularly,since we are talking about the self-regulatory institutions here. If we bringthe concept here and start bringing theSecretary to the Council — it is a differentmatter. Mr Speaker, as has been said earlier,the Governing Council does somethingdifferent from the Executive Council. Forthat reason, I agree that we should nothave both the President and the VicePresident there. We could have thePresident or his Vice but not both of them. Mr Speaker, going back to theChairperson, I do not think it should be aperson with expertise in taxation. Thatperson should not be a member of theInstitute, otherwise —
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Whichperson, please?
Dr A. A. Osei 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, achairperson with expertise in taxation. Itshould be somebody who does not haveany experties in taxation. This is because,the Governing Council's mandate iscompletely different. It is not going to dealwith the rules — One does not have to bean expert in taxation in order to deal withcodes of conduct. I agree with my HonColleague; it should be smaller than whathas been proposed. I do not know what the Ministrythinks, but it should be a maximum ofseven to nine persons, then the majorityshould be from outside the Institute. It isbetter than the way we have it in theamendment.
Mr Nortsu-Kotoe 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, weearly on agreed that, a Chairpersonshould not necessarily be somebody withexpertise in taxation, so that we do not tiethe hands of the appointing authority. So,I just want to make a correction to thatimpression. It is going to be “chair-person”. We are not adding anything toit. That is what we agreed on. Mr Speaker, on the clause 4 (c), “Vice-President” — we agree that he should notbe a member of the Governing Council.We can look for a replacement, probably,from the Ministry of Trade and Industry.This is because, taxation activities alsotake place at the Ministry of Trade andIndustry. We could bring somebody from theMinistry, probably, with the rank of aDirector to take the place of the VicePresident. That would even reduce thenumber of persons from the Institute toseven (7) instead of eight (8).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Whatabout the suggestion that, the ChiefExecutive should be a member of theGoverning Council?
Mr Ablakwa 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, it is aninteresting proposal. We have beendiscussing it. There is also a proposal thatthe size of the Board is too large so wewould seek your direction, whether toreduce the membership of the Instituteand bring in the Chief Executive. Mr Speaker, we had also beendiscussing if we could replace the vicepresident with a representative from theMinistry of Trade and Industry. This isbecause, so far, that appears to be the onlyMinistry out of this arrangement. TheMinistry of Finance, the Ministry ofEducation and the Attorney-General'sDepartment are represented. The Ministry of Trade and Industry,which also has a lot of dealings withtaxation is omitted. So, if we are tomaintain the current membership of 13,then that gives us room to considersomebody else. If the direction is that, weshould reduce the membership, however,then we might be a bit challenged.
Mr Boafo 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not thinkwe need any further direction from youabout the inclusion of the Registrar as amember of the Board. This is because theRegistrar is the person who is in chargeof the day to day administration of theInstitute. Invariably, if we go back to thevarious Bills that we have considered inthe House —
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
HonHaruna Iddrisu, I will recognise you afterthe Hon Member.
Mr Boafo 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, invariably, ifwe look at the various Bills that we haveconsidered in this House about corporatebodies, we always include the ChiefExecutives of the various bodies asmembers of the Board.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu noon
Mr Speaker, myunderstanding, as I listened to theChairman of the Committee and othercontributions from my Hon Colleagues,suggest that the intention in respect ofclause 4 is with the composition of theCouncil so that the Council shall have aChairperson. The President and the Vice Presidentshall be members of the Council; thereshall be four other members of theInstitute, all elected at the Annual GeneralMeeting with a representative of theMinistry of Education, Ministry ofFinance and the Attorney-General'sDepartment, as well as two other membersof the Institute nominated by the Minister,one of whom shall be a woman. Mr Speaker, that is the understanding.You can so direct the draftspersons tofine-tune it. What we would want is that,there is a Chairperson of the Council; thePresident and Vice President serve on theCouncil; the Hon Minister has anobligation to appoint at least two persons,one of whom shall be a woman and thereshall be other representations whichshould be institutional from the Ministriesof Education, Finance, Trade and Industryand the Attorney General's Department.
Mr Speaker, that being the case, youcan put the Question and we would allowthe draftsperson to --

Dr A. A. Osei— rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker noon
Yes, HonDr A. A. Osei?
Dr A. A. Osei noon
Mr Speaker, I do notknow where my Hon Colleague has been.That is not the sense of the House as hesaid. I think he just came in -- we are waypast that. He is just taking us back; theissue about the President and the Vice-President, we are done with it. Mr Speaker should put him to order.He is just trying to take us all the wayback. The Vice-Chairman has addressedall that but the Hon Minister forEmployment and Labour Relations israther taking us back now. Mr Speaker, this is very serious. Wehave worked for close to two hours andnow he is trying to take us back.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker noon
What isthe sanction? As you said, it is veryserious.
Dr A. A. Osei noon
The sanction is that,you should rule him out of order.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker noon
I shouldrule him out of order?
Dr A. A. Osei noon
Yes, Mr Speaker. For daring to take this whole augustHouse back by two hours.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker noon
So thecharge is taking the whole House back --that is the charge -- and it is very serious;a capital offence. [Interruption.] It is
misdemeanour. [Laughter.] He has theright to express his view and he has doneso. Yes, Hon Amoako-Attah? [Interruption]I will call you, Hon Deputy RankingMember.
Mr Kwasi Amoako-Attah noon
Mr Speaker,I wanted to respond to the question youposed by your good self a while ago as towhether the Chief Executive of the Instituteshould be a member of the GoverningCouncil. Mr Speaker, my respectful view is that,he should be, because, the GoverningCouncil is supposed to decide on policyissues of the Institute. It is alwaysimportant that the head of the --[Interruptions]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker noon
HonMembers, let us have some order. HonAmoako-Attah, can you resume your seatfor a second while we put the House inorder. [Interruptions.] Can we have some order! Thebackground chattering is becoming a bittoo much so can we have some order.[Interruption] I am waiting for that order.With the ushers, unless it is veryimportant, let us have some order. Withthe exception of the Chief Whips andDeputy Chief Whips of both Sides whoare on their feet and doing business,everybody else, with all due respect,should be seated. Yes, Hon Amoako-Attah?
Mr Amoako-Attah noon
Mr Speaker, I triedto address the issue of whether the ChiefExecutive of the Institute should be amember of the Governing Council. I saidthat, since the Governing Council wouldbe dealing with policy issues and policy
directions of the Institute, it is alwaysimportant that the head of that Instituteis made a member. This is becausewhatever you decide on would come backto the officers of the Institute forimplementation and the head who is theChief Executive Officer (CEO) of theInstitute should always be apprised withthe issues behind whatever policydecision is taken. Mr Speaker, the second issue dealswith the membership of the Council. If youdo the calculation, it would be a 13-member Governing Council. Out of the 13,nine are supposed to come from theInstitute itself, leaving four memberscoming from outside. Mr Speaker, if weload the Governing Council with so manymembers of the Institute itself, then itwould deprive the Institute of fresh ideasthat are supposed to be brought to bearon the organisation and the running ofthe Institute. Mr Speaker, that aspect should belooked at, then reduced to the number ofcouncil members who would come fromthe Institute itself and allow a greaternumber from outside to bring in fresh ideasand innovations among others.
Mr Bagbin noon
Mr Speaker, it looks likethere is a misunderstanding of what theBill is about. The Bill deals with a profession andthere are a number of institutions trainingpeople to be chartered into the profession.So, there is no single Chief ExecutiveOfficer but they have a registrar. If it is theregistrar the Hon Member suggests wemake a member of the Board, then Iunderstand. But there is no CEO; thereare a number of them because there are anumber of institutions and schools --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker noon
HonMajority Leader, is the registrar not theCEO of the Institute?
Mr Bagbin noon
He is not.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker noon
What ishe? Is he the Administrator?
Mr Bagbin noon
He is just the ChiefAdministrator of the profession.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker noon
So, he isjust like the administrator of the GhanaSchool of Law.
Mr Bagbin noon
Exactly, Mr Speaker; it isjust like that. He is not the CEO. Mr Speaker again, when you look atthe proposal now, the understanding I getfrom the House is that the Chairpersonshould not be an expert in taxation -- thatis one. And that has been accepted.
Mr Bagbin noon
Then the clause 4 (e), whichtalks of representative from the academiaalso comes from --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker noon
I thoughtyou would address clause 4 (c).
Mr Bagbin noon
We have finished withclause 4 (c) so, I would not talk of the vicepresident again. There is a proposal thatthe person should come from the Ministryof Trade and Industry. That is a personwho would also come from outside. Mr Speaker, you have clause 4 (e)where the person is not necessarily amember of the profession except that theperson should have some academicspecialisation in one of the areas and maybe teaching in a school. Then we haveclause 4 (f) where we have three people.So when you add these, you would havea total of five --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker noon
Youwould get a total of four.
Mr Bagbin noon
We have six coming fromoutside. So, it is not correct that there areonly four people coming from outside. Isupport the proposal, however, that thisis unwieldy.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker noon
Which ofthem, Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Bagbin noon
I have got more than nine.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker noon
The lastsentence? You said there should not bemore than nine members so the 13members will be too many.
Mr Bagbin noon
It is too wieldy.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
So, I wasjust about to put the Question on this,subclause by subclause but yourconcluding remarks has put a spanner inthe works. If you say we should reduce itfrom 13 to nine (9) members, then youtogether with your Hon Colleagues mustagree on what we should delete. I thought we had an agreement that itshould be the Chairperson and then weshould take away “with expertise intaxation”. We can do it for subclauses (b)and (c) but when we start going down,that is where you will take the fourmembers from. The Chairperson iscompulsory; there must be a Chairperson. I think we all agreed that, the Presidentshould be a member but then, the rest ofthem -- Are you saying that we shouldreduce that number from 11 to seven sothat we have seven other members inaddition to the Chairperson and thePresident? Who are the people that you suggestwe should remove?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Yes, HonAkoto Osei and then the Hon RankingMember.
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with clause4(1) (d), we do not need four members fromthe Institute. We can reduce that.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
So, howmany?
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we needtwo at maximum. In fact, I would even sayone and then the Hon Minister wouldappoint one. So we would get the five-four thing that he was talking about. Thenwe would have the President --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Then, itmeans that apart from the President, allthe other members of the Institute wouldbe from outside.
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
No, Mr Speaker.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
This isbecause the Chairperson is notnecessarily from the Institute. The VicePresident is out. In clause 4 (d), you saidone member. So, one member fromoutside, one representative from theacademia, one representative from the --
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, theChairperson is one, the President makesit two, two members of the Institute --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
ThePresident elected by the members of theInstitute does not necessarily have to bea member of the Institute. Am I correct?
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
No! Mr Speaker, onewould have to be a member to be elected.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
HonDeputy Ranking Member, does one haveto be a member?
Mr Nortsu-Kotoe 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, theChairperson?
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, there is noway one can be elected member of anInstitute if one is not a member.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Sorry, Imean the Chairperson.
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
It is not the Chairperson.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Sorry,yes.
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
The President is amember.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Yes, Iagree with you. So, the President is fromthe Institute. That is one representative.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
And thesecond representative?
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 4(d); two members.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
All right.That makes it three members.
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
And clause 4 (g); onemember nominated by the Hon Minister.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Thatmakes it four.
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
That is it.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Four outof nine?
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
That is the whole ideaof the Council.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
HonMember, but the point is that we need totake away four Members and we havetaken away only three.
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I assumethat the representative from academia isgone.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Is it gonecompletely?
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker. Why from academia? That isproblematic. The Council is not the --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
HonMajority Leader?
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Councilwould not set the standards. That is whywe do not need the person from academia.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
HonAkoto Osei, you have made your pointvery clearly. Let us see what the HonRanking Member says.
Mr Nortsu-Kotoe 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we arethinking of reducing the number by four,so that it would be nine.
Mr Nortsu-Kotoe 12:10 p.m.
What we areproposing is this; once the Vice Presidentis going out, that is one --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Do youintend to replace the Vice President?
Mr Nortsu-Kotoe 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, yes,with a Registrar -- [Interruption] -- whois a secretary to the Council. This isbecause we looked at clause 26 and the
Registrar is the Secretary to the Counciland so, he is already there.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
I amsaying that, either you or the HonMajority Leader said that you werereplacing the vice president with arepresentative from the Ministry of Tradeand Industry. If you said that, thenrightly, the number is the same.
Mr Nortsu-Kotoe 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, weproposed that before his introduction ofthe further amendment that we shouldreduce the number to nine. So, if we stillmaintain “a representative from theMinistry of Trade and Industry”, then, wewould have a problem. Where do we cutfrom? That is why we are saying that, ifthe Registrar is going, then, that is one. Mr Speaker, if you look at clause 4 (d);we reduced the ‘four members of theInstitute elected by members of theInstitute at an annual general meeting' totwo. Then if we come to clause 4 (g); wewould reduce ‘two other personsnominated by the Minister, one of whomshall be a woman', to one, so that, thatperson nominated by the Presidentshould be a woman.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
HonMembers, I think I am ready to put theQuestion. Please, give me a rendition ofclause 4 (1) (a). [Interruption] -- Wewould take it clause by clause. So, whenwe come to a clause that you have aproblem with, you can then advise us. Dr A. A. Osei -- rose --
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, he referredto clause 26. There is nothing there thatsays that the Registrar is a member of the
Institute. He does not have to be.[Interruption] -- Yes, but being asecretary does not make you a member ofthe Institute. Anybody can be appointedRegistrar but one does not have to be amember of the Institute. That is thepoint -- Putting him as a secretary does notmean that he is a member of the Institute.So, if you want institutional represen-tation -- I wanted that part clear. I agree,by virtue of clause 26, he has to be therebut being a secretary, does notnecessarily guarantee one a membershipstatus. Do we get it? We can amend clause 4 to say, ‘theRegistrar shall be the secretary but not amember'. Then we would have morerepresentation from the members. That ismy point.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Thankyou. Hon Chairman or Hon RankingMember, clause 4 (1) (a), the rendition,please?
Mr Puozaa 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the renditionwill be;
“The governing body of theInstitute is a Council consisting of (a) a chairperson”.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
I will putthe Question. The rendition of clause 4(1) (a), for the avoidance of doubt, if I mayrepeat it states: “The governing body of theInstitute is a Council consisting of
(a) a chairperson”. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
HonChairman of the Committee, clause 4 (1)(b)?
Mr Puozaa 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 4 (1) (b):
“The President of the Instituteelected by members of the Instituteat an annual general meeting of theInstitute.”
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
It is asadvertised. I will put the Question. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Yes,clause 4 (1) (c)?
Mr Puozaa 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, there is aproposed amendment here that we delete;
“the Vice President of the Instituteelected by members of the Instituteat an annual general meeting”.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Shouldwe just delete? Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Yes, HonMinority Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker,mine is not about the deletion or retentionof that clause. My worry is that, the VicePresident by this arrangement is to beelected by members of the Institute at anannual general meeting of the Institute. Now, if we should take this one out,how is the vice president to be elected? Ithought we were tying the election of theVice President to this, unless -- I havenot read the Bill. Is there a provision forthe election of the Vice Presidentelsewhere? [Interruption] -- If it is, then,I have nothing against it.
Mr Nortsu-Kotoe 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if youlook at subclause (2) in the Bill, it is there,but we would make a further amendmentin view of the amendments we areaccepting now in the election of thePresident and then the vice president ofthe Institute. Thank you.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
No! HonMember, what the Hon Minority Leader issaying is that, from his reading of the Bill,vice president does not feature anywhereapart from that provision. So, if you aredeleting his membership from the Council,perhaps, we would need a provision whichsays that “there shall be a vice presidentwho shall be elected by the annualgeneral meeting of the Institute.” Hon Minority Leader, have I appreciatedyour argument? [Interruption.] Thank you. Some Hon Members -- rose -- Yes? Sorry, Hon W. O. Boafo?
Mr Boafo 12:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in view of theobservation made by the Hon MinorityLeader, on clause 4 (b), I think we can stopat “the President of the Institute” insteadof going further to indicate how thePresident is elected. We should leave it to the Institute'sown subsequent instruments whichwould set out that the president and thevice president are elected by the Instituteso that the issue of how the vice presidentis to be elected is left to the constituentinstrument of the Institute.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Hon W.O. Boafo, I would have rather thought that-- I agree with you to some extent, thatwhen we talk about the governing body,perhaps, we should not talk about howthe president and the vice president arechosen in the same clause. Perhaps, it should be in a separateclause that “the president shall be electedby the members of the institute at anannual general meeting”. The vicePresident shall be elected, in a separateclause, so, it would read as follows:
“The governing body of theInstitute is a Council consisting of (a) The chairperson; (b)The president of the Institute”.
Then we continue with item (c). So, asto how a person becomes president,whether through election, nomination,appointment or whatever, should be in aseparate clause. Hon Members, would that resolve theproblem? We would end at:
“The governing body of theInstitute is a Council consisting of (b)The President of theInstitute”.
Mr Bagbin 12:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I initiallydiscussed here, that, we should notconcern ourselves with how the presidentis elected; that is for the profession.Usually, we know that, all professions doit at their annual general meeting. So, weshould not deal with that. Mr Speaker, the other issue is that theexecutive body of the professional groupis elected by the members at their annualgeneral meeting.
Now, we are picking members of thatexecutive body to be part of a governingbody. The election of executive membersis done somewhere and now we are makinga law to take some of them. Mr Speaker, this is because they wouldhave an elected president, vice president,general-secretary and treasurer as theexecutive body. We are now looking atthe governing board for the wholeprofession, and we want the president tobe part of that governing board with othermembers. That is my understanding. I agree that we do not need to go tothe extent of spelling out how thepresident should be elected to be amember of the board. This is because thatwould have been done anyway. One hasto be an elected president of the Institutebefore one could be a member of theboard.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
HonMajority Leader, the problem I have, and Iknow you would assist me to solve, is thatthese bodies are not companies. So, theyhave regulations. If we could borrow theterm “Regulations” from Company Law, itis the Act. For example, when we come to thesecond schedule, it talks about meetingsof the Institute and annual generalmeetings. It sets out what would happenat the annual general meetings, et ceterawith reference to section 10. I have lookedat the Act. There is clause 34, which talks aboutregulations. Does it mean that thesedetails would be spelt out in theregulations? Or would we be --[Interruption] -- They are in theamendment. Which amendment?
Would we lose anything if we putthis in the Second Schedule? “1. (1) The council shall convene anannual general meeting of theInstitute to:
(a) elect members of the council,the President, the VicePresident…” In the Second Schedule 1 (1) (a) -- ifwe put there, I believe -- This is because,this is in effect in the Regulations; as if itwas in the Regulations of a company.
Ms Abrah 12:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the fact thatwe would like to delete “elected by themember of the Institute at an AnnualGeneral Meeting…”, as an Hon Memberof the Committee, I would like to give youthe antecedents that led to the additionof that phrase. When we started, the President was tobe nominated by the President of theState. So, they gave the explanation that,to avoid any seeming interference fromthe Executive arm of Government, weshould ensure that, that clause is included.So that the Executive arm of Governmentwould give them the freedom to choose. This is because, the first draft that wesaw was that, the president of the Instituteof Taxation should be elected by thePresident of the State. That was theoriginal rendition, and that is why this isthere. Mr Speaker, if we take it away and itwould not change anything, I think -- Iam just giving the idea behind it. That waswhy they insisted on it at the AnnualGeneral Meeting. Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Avedzi 12:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that weprobably need a completely new clausethat would actually show how thePresident and the Vice President of theInstitute are elected. What we are doing now is that we areusing the governing body of the Institute,and smuggling in the election of thePresident and Vice President into how themembership of the governing body is alsoselected. This is because we have establishedan Institute, there are functions of thegoverning body of the Institute, and weare saying that, in the membership of thegoverning body of the institute, we havea vice president and a president. The way the vice president and thepresident are elected is not in the Bill. So,there is a problem here. We need to havea clause that would talk about how thepresident and the vice president areelected before the membership of thegoverning body becomes relevant here.
Dr A. A. Osei 12:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I agree verymuch with my Hon Chairman for tworeasons. First of all, he made reference to theSecond Schedule 1 (1) (a), which iscompletely out of place. We cannot electmembers of the Council when we areappointing them in clause 4. We wouldappoint them but we say we wouldelect them. The problem is that nowhere, at least,have I seen that we made allowance forthat so called “executive group”. We havefused the two, and it is problematic. So,we have the Council convening in anAnnual General Meeting to elect membersof the Council.
Mr Speaker, in clause 4, we aredesignating members of the Council. It iscontradictory. So, there must be a way todo so if we want an executive group ofthe institute, where we could elect aPresident and a Vice President. MrSpeaker, but it should be some new clausesomewhere. Otherwise, we would havefused the two which would createconfusion.
Mr Bagbin 12:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, to be a memberof the governing Board, one must beappointed by the President. The Second Schedule did not capturethe sense of the House. Therefore, thereare proposed amendments starting frompage 18 on the Order Paper trying to rectifythat so that, the professional body cancall an Annual General Meeting to electtheir executives. The one elected as President would bethe one who would be appointed by thenational President to the Board. So, therewill be amendments at the SecondSchedule to put this in line with thethinking of the House that, there shouldbe a separation between the professionalbody led by the President of the body fromthat of the governing body --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
ThePresident does not have a discretionwhen --
Mr Bagbin 12:30 p.m.
When the person is electedas the President of the professional body,the President has no discretion.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
ThePresident of the Republic has nodiscretion.
Mr Bagbin 12:30 p.m.
No! He has to appoint theperson.
Mr Bagbin 12:30 p.m.
As a member of thegoverning board, when we get to theSecond Schedule, we will have topropose the necessary consequentialamendments.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
HonMajority Leader, this consequentialamendments have not been advertised.
Mr Bagbin 12:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, there is anattempt --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
But theattempt has failed.
Mr Bagbin 12:30 p.m.
The attempt does notcapture it fully because when we look --[Interruption]-- page18; proposedamendment numbered xxxiii SecondSchedule, clause 1, subclause (1),paragraph (a), delete. Those are attempts but they do notcapture the right sense of what we aredealing with now, so, we will have toimprove on that.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
HonMajority Leader, you will agree with methat, clause 4 even though at first glanceseems quite harmless contains severalpotential pitfalls. Just a simple questionby you, putting a line at the end of yoursubmission that we should reduce it from13 to 9, hell broke loose so to speak. TheHon Minority Leader asked where thevice president is referred to; and hellbroke loose again. My recommendation is that, youshould put your heads together so thatwe will not lose the sense of what we aretrying to do. If you put your headstogether, you will know the sense of theHouse -- Do the consequentialamendments, and advertise them so thattomorrow, we could continue withclause 4.
Mr Bagbin 12:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I totally agreewith you. I think it is important that wethink through the policy principles andget that right and then the amendmentswill flow through that. Whether the policyis to have a separate executive bodydifferent from that of the governing body,but from what is in the Bill, it is not clear. They have fused the two and it iscreating a lot of problems. So, we couldtake -- [Pause] -- We would just allowthe Committee to go and have a secondlook and when they are ready, they willcome back to the House. I think that is --then we could proceed to other Business.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
HonChairman of the Committee, furtherconsideration of clause 4 is deferred. Yes,Hon Chairman of Committee, what clauseare we on now?
Mr Puozaa 12:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do agreewith the proposal but then, since we haveother amendments, could we continuewith that and leave this as outstanding?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Thechoice is yours. If you think that we wantto, as it were, hold our horses down. Thisis because there are amendments that weshould be making further that will affect --I do not know -- The choice is yours.
Mr Puozaa 12:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that is whatwe have done with the others.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
HonMajority Leader and Leader ofGovernment Business, should wecontinue with further consideration of thisBill or we hold our horses completely on
Dr A. A. Osei 12:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, as the HonMajority Leader said earlier, may Isuggest that, because of the veryimportant policy consideration of fusionor no fusion, it has lots of effects on therest of the Bills that we defer so that,that problem is solved. Mr Speaker, when it is solved it will beeasier to propose the amendments. As itis, if I go on, when I hear what the HonMajority Leader is saying; we will need toeffect a lot of amendments to otherclauses if we try to go through it now andthey would not have been well thoughtthrough. So, I would want to crave yourindulgence to direct that, it be deferredfor some thinking to go through in orderto do a better job as it is.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Thankyou. Hon Majority Leader, Hon Chairman ofthe Committee?
Mr Bagbin 12:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I once againwant to reiterate the point that, we needto go back and resolve the principles andpolicies behind the Bill before we continue. This is because, the other ones havesome kind of effect on what we are doing.I want us to take a date on that and thenproceed to other items on the Order Paper.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
So, HonMembers, I defer further consideration ofthe Chartered Institute of Taxation Bill,
2014. That brings us to the end of theConsideration Stage for today. Are wegoing for another -- Hon Majority Leader, which item?
Mr Bagbin 12:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, item 12 --Ghana Export-Import Bank Bill, 2015 --Consideration Stage.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Yes. Item 12 -- the Ghana Export-ImportBank Bill, 2015, at the Consideration Stage.

Ghana Export-Import BankBill, 2015 Clause 1 ordered to stand part of theBill Clause 2 -- Object of the Bank.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, inrespect of clause 2 -- let me first of allseek your leave and indulge you topropose a further amendment. MrSpeaker, I beg to move, clause 2, add anew subclause which would read asfollows:
“The object of the Bank, it shall bethe principal financial institution toaid and facilitate the financing ofexport and goods services andforeign trade.” This is just to improve the rendition asa new subclause added to the originalrendition.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Yes, HonChairman of the Committee?
Chairman of the Committee (MrJames K. Avedzi) 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do notunderstand the amendment proposed bythe Hon Minister. How different is that
amendment from the objective (a) and (b)as captured in the Bill. I say so becausethe object of the Bank, Mr Speaker, Ibeg to quote, is to: “(a) support and develop directly orindirectly trade between Ghanaand other countries; and (b) build Ghana's capacity andcompetitiveness in the interna-tional market-place”.
How different is this from what he isproposing? In any case, his proposal isan addition to what we already have. So,he should explain.
Dr A. A. Osei 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I wouldwant to crave the indulgence of the HonMinister for Employment and LabourRelations that we keep the object as it is.What he said is probably captured underthe Functions (3) (b) to (d). It would reflectthe sentiments in terms of the functions. The object as it is in (a) and (b) captureswhat he said, so, it would be redundant.This is because, the phrase “support anddevelop directly or indirectly tradebetween Ghana and other countries” --the support can come in all forms.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
DrMatthew Opoku Prempeh, I saw you onyour feet -- [Interruption] -- Are youthe supervising Hon Minister? You haveto speak before the Hon Minister. I do notunderstand the procedure now --[Interruption.] I think he has withdrawn theamendment -- please, state youramendment again.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I havebeen researching on the United StatesEXIM Bank as was established by
Congress and the Indian EXIM Bank aswas established by the Indian Parliament.Mr Speaker, everywhere, the EXIM Bankis to be situated as a principal financialinstitution which must have the object ofaiding, facilitating and financing export ofgoods and services as its principalfunction. There is a difference between ‘object'and ‘functions'. When we come to thefunctions, they have diluted what it mightdo in respect of export and import. But forour purposes, the focus of this bankshould not be on imports. It should be onexports - Explicit. That ‘the bank shallfacilitate and aid the export.' Mr Speaker, the transformation agendaof government is anchored on this. Whenyou simply say “the object of the Bank isto support and develop”-- where haveyou defined “support or develop directlyor indirectly trade between Ghana andother countries.” You are just sayingfacilitate international trade. That is notthe object of the bank.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
I wouldtake Hon Prempeh, after him the HonMinister for Finance.
Dr Prempeh 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, on theMemorandum at page 2 (ii) -- Mr Speaker,I beg to quote:
“Clause 3 provides for the functionsof the Bank some of which are toprovide credit facilities to exportersor to importers for the importationof goods or services for use inmanufacturing goods for export …” Mr Speaker, the main thrust of theEXIM Bank is to facilitate export trade.So, even when you are bringing an import,it is for manufacturing into export tradeand not just import. So, the object shouldemphasise the fact that, this EXIM Bankis to support export trade.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
I wouldtake the Hon Chairman of the Committeeand Hon Akoto Osei, then the HonMinister for Finance. In fact, the HonRanking Member should come before theHon Chairman but it is all right.
Mr Avedzi 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, let me comebefore the Hon Ranking Member. I just want my Hon Colleagues to knowthat the object of the Bank is actuallyreflected in the name of the Bank -- EXIMBank -- Export and Import. So, you cannotlimit the object to only export. Then itshould be called the Ghana Export Bank.Why are we calling it the ‘Ghana Exportand Import Bank'? The object is for boththe export and import. In fact, if you are supporting export --These manufacturing companies doimport some of the inputs -- Are you notsupporting that as well? So, it is for bothexport and import.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
HonAkoto Osei?
Dr A. A. Osei 12:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think wecan argue this all day. My first concern isthe procedure. I believe if people wouldwant to help us, they should advertisetheir amendment so that we can have time
to debate it. It has not been advertised,and so we have not even adverted ourminds to it. If you have a good reason sothat we can debate it, during the SecondConsideration Stage you could bring it. I say so because, the issue aboutwhether it should be export or import, Ithink if we amend it, it would not affectanything. If we put ‘export' period, itwould not be correct but we can arguewhen it is advertised properly and broughtto our attention. But to spring it right now,when it is not advertised is not fair. Thisis because, everybody can get-up andbring an amendment which is notadvertised and we do not even know thelanguage -- We should do the proper thing. I donot have any objection --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
HonMember, I would want to refer you toStanding Order 129 (2) (b):
“At the Consideration Stage of aBill: (b) if any Member announces,while a clause is being called,that he wishes to move anamendment to, or make somecomment on the clause, MrSpeaker shall not put thequestion with regard to theclause which has been calledbut not yet agreed to, whichshall then be considered.”
Hon Haruna Iddrisu is coming underStanding Order 129 (2) (b) and I have aproblem with the Standing Order as itstands because I agree with you that itpermits Hon Members to hijackproceedings without giving enoughnotice. I would have been a little cross withhim -- So to speak -- but clearly, he hasadvertised several amendments. So, itmeans he was doing further research on
the matter and that is why -- In fact myhands are tied by the Standing Orders andI even told the Clerks-at-the-Table that,perhaps, when we are looking at the newStanding Orders, we should look at that.This is because it seems the amendmentcan be either oral or written; you eitheradvertise it or just raise it and both ofthem have the same effect. Perhaps, to encourage people toadvertise more and to publish more so thatwe can anticipate the argument, it is moredifficult for them to make that application.This is because my hands are tied. Hon Minister for Finance?
Dr A. A. Osei 12:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, you madereference to Standing Order 129 (2). I havebeen looking for it. Mine does not have it,unless I am mistaken. I see Order 129 (b).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
That waswhat I said.
Dr A. A. Osei 12:50 p.m.
No! You said StandingOrder 129 (2), so, I got confused.[Interruption.] I do not know, that waswhy I was searching.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
HonAkoto Osei, when I see you sitting there,my heart gladdens. This is because I knowif I would want to say Order 129(b) and Isay Order 129 (2), if nobody corrects me,you would correct me. Thank you very much for your raptattention to the Standing Order. I mean129 (b) and not Order 129 (2). Yes, Hon Minister for Finance?
Minister for Finance (Mr EmmanuelS. Terkper) 12:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just wish toaddress two points briefly.
First, elaborating on imports andexports in the object of the Bill would seemsuperfluous, the reason being that clause2 (a) states and I quote: “The object of the Bank is tosupport and develop directly orindirectly trade between Ghana andother countries.”
So, once it refers to a trade betweenGhana and other countries, one is referringto imports and exports. As other Hon Members have also said,Mr Speaker, if you go to the functions ofthe Bank, it provides specifically from (b)where credit is emphasised and later itguarantees credit facilities to an exporteror to an exporter's bank; credit facilitiesfor the importation of goods. The Hon Member for Manhyia statedit rightly; we are looking at an integratedapproach and we are at a point whereGhana could be the beneficiary, forexample, of importing knocked downparts, assembling them and exporting. We are also at the point where we saythat, the integrated approach of goingback to the agro processing, much ofwhich has a heavy import component.That is the reason the Hon Chairman ofthe Committee said the emphasis of eventhe name of the bank has Exports andImports. This is because, the comple-complementary import activities facilitateexports. So, Mr Speaker, I would want to tellmy Hon Colleague that the points he hasraised are catered for within the objectsand functions of the Bill.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
I wouldwant to take Hon (Prof.) Gyan-Baffour. Icannot ignore Hon William Ofori Boafo.

[BABA AHMED]Prof. George Y. Gyan-Baffour: MrSpeaker, the name of the Bank is what isused universally, but the object is actuallyderived from what the country needs. Theobject here is to try to ensure that, we domore exports. If we focus on imports aswell, what would happen is that, this Bankwould really focus on importation. Thatis not the idea. The idea is to ensure that,people produce and export. If you allow ‘import' as part of theobject, you would see that there wouldbe a lopsided view of what they do in theBank financing imports. We are not readyto finance imports in this country; we aretrying to finance exports. That is theobject, but that object would require thatmaybe one would bring in raw material thatare imported. That does not mean that theobject is to import. The object is really toexport. Mr Speaker, what the former Ministerfor Trade and Industry said is the rightapproach to go by. Otherwise, we wouldend up financing imports in the country.And that should not be encouraged atthis point.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Yes, HonMinister for Finance?
Mr Terkper 12:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, taking intoconsideration where ‘import' is men-tioned, it should be under the functionsof the Bank. With all due respect to youand the Hon Member, it says and I quote:
“provide credit facilities for theimportation of goods or services foruse in manufacturing goods forexport.” So, anywhere importation ismentioned, emphasis is placed onfinancing it for the purposes of export.So, yes, the prime focus is on exportsbecause the Bill is within the export-led
strategy for the country, but we must becognisant with the fact that, we and theadvanced countries are not at the pointwhere it would be completely devoid ofimportation. That is why that balance isalso given.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Hon W.O. Boafo?
Mr Boafo 12:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, two observa-tions have been espoused by the HonMinister for Finance. They relate to thefact that the mere statement that the tradeis between Ghana and other countriessuggests that, there is the element ofimport and export. Also, a careful reading of the Bill givesa further explanation to the fact that itencourages imports for processingexports. Mr Speaker, I would just want to raiseanother issue. I would want to find outfrom the Hon Chairman of the Committeewhat the added value of this expression“directly or indirectly” is. What does thatexpression add to it? Is there any otherexpression apart from “directly andindirectly”?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Thankyou. Hon Member for Akwatia? Baba Jamal Mohammed Ahmed: MrSpeaker, that last statement coming fromthe Hon Minister for Finance answeredor took the wind out of my sail. If we are talking about an EXIM bank,we cannot talk about only exports. Surely,the element of imports must be there, andin my opinion, with regard to the way ithas been couched, anywhere ‘import' ismentioned, it is linked to facilitatingexport.
For example, the Hon Member wasasking for “directly or indirectly”. If oneneeds to have a special car to carry someparticular import that would help exports,it might not be directly linked, but it findsits way into the system. So, in myopinion, when we are talking about EXIM,surely, the emphasis is on export but theelement of import cannot be totally takenout. The emphasis is that, any import thatis done under this law must be linkeddirectly to the export that is producedlocally.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
HonMember for Subin?
Mr Isaac Osei 12:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just wouldwant to support the point which was madeby the Hon Minister for Finance. Theissue is that, in this country, our importdependency is not only on finishedproducts. It is also on raw materials andintermediate products. So, it is very important that the EXIMBank concept, even though it is geared tosupport export industry, it should beflexible enough to make space for theimportation of raw materials andintermediate products which go into themanufacturing process. Mr Speaker, inmy opinion, the point that he made is clear.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
HonMember for Ahanta West?
Mr George Kwame Aboagye 12:50 p.m.
MrSpeaker, in this country, we have anExport Promotion Authority. In thedeveloped countries, they have ImportPromotion Authority. In the Scandinaviancountries in Europe, efficient importationis considered as a very cardinal point intrade promotion.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
HonDeputy Majority Leader, do you want tocontribute?
Mr Agbesi 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think the HonMinister has agreed to look at theamendment again.
Mr Agbesi 1 p.m.
I think he has somethingto say on that.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Has hewithdrawn his proposed amendment?
Mr Agbesi 1 p.m.
I think he wants towithdraw.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
HonMinister, Hon Haruna Iddrisu, have youwithdrawn your proposed amendment?
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, heindicated to me and I said that subject tocorrecting some erroneous impressionswhich was created about my amendment,I was prepared to step it down. But youcould only hear me to appreciate thaterroneous impression.
Mr Speaker, as I was going through, Iinvoked the Standing Order, which givesyou the power to grant me leave toproceed. I had already written through theClerk to Parliament to the Speaker. For therecords, my amendment reads:
“Clause 2, Object of the Bank, addnew subclause”. So, Mr Speaker, I am not saying thatyou remove ‘export' or remove ‘import'. Itreads:
“The principal financial institution,to aid and to facilitate the financingof export of goods and services andforeign trade.” So, foreign trade is embedded in myamendment.
Mr Speaker, I am holding the U. S.Congress note on the EXIM Bank. Withyour indulgence, I would read for you,after which I would abandon myamendment.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Is thisprocess for our education or information?
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, youare a learned person and you know thatParliamentary debate is now a guide tointerpretation for some day in future. Iwould want to test the law to appreciatethat when Parliament was considering thisBill, we ought to have been guided bysome of these inputs. So I am encouragedto put it for the records in the Hansardand I am quoting the U.S. Congress. Thatwas what they said about their Export-Import Bank:
“The Export-Import Bank of theUnited States (EXIM) is the officialexport credit agency of the UnitedStates. EXIM is an independent,self-sustaining Executive Branchagency with the mission ofsupporting American jobs byfacilitating the export of U.S. goodsand services.”
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Wheredoes that quotation come from, Wikipedia?
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, Icould give you the date. When Congresswas considering the Import-Export Bankof the US., their emphasis is exports. Mr Speaker, we were here when thePresident came and said he wanted toreduce import Bill. I did not say that rawmaterials should not come in. But theprimary focus of this bank must be to growGhanaian exports and create Ghanaianjobs. That was the point I made, but Iabandoned it for us to make progress. Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
HonHaruna Iddrisu has withdrawn hisproposed amendment. Hon Members, I would not put thequestion, I would suspend Sitting. I urge you all to look at section 3 of theNational Investment Bank Act 1963, (Act163). It sets out the objects of the bank indetails. I defer further consideration of theGhana Export-Import Bank Bill, 2015. Hon Members, I have a very importantannouncement to make and I wouldappreciate it if I could have your attention.Those in the third row, I would appreciateit if I could have your attention. The announcement is that Sitting issuspended for 10 minutes. Thank you. Hon Members, the further announce-ment is that all Hon Members shouldremain seated. We are expecting ouraugust visitor who is within the premisesof Parliament. Sitting would be suspended for thepurpose of our visitor to be led by theHon Speaker in a procession to addressus. So, with respect, you are under ordersto remain glued to your seats as I leavethe Chamber. Thank you. 1.08 p.m. -- Sitting suspended. 1.25 p.m. -- Sitting Resumed [Mr Speaker and his entourageushered His Excellency the President ofthe Republic of Turkey into theChamber.]
MR SPEAKER
ANNOUNCEMENTS 1:25 p.m.

Mr Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon Members, I ampleased to recognise in the House thedistinguished presence of the Presidentof the Republic of Turkey, His ExcellencyRecep Tayyip Erdogan, who is on a two-day official visit to Ghana at the invitationof his Ghanaian colleague, the Presidentof the Republic of Ghana, H.E. JohnDramani Mahama. [Hear! Hear!] His Excellency is accompanied by hisspouse, the First Lady of the Republic ofTurkey, Her Excellency Emine Erdogan,and a large retinue of very importantpersonalities of the Republic of Turkey,including the following:
Mr Mevlut Cavusoglu -- Ministerfor Foreign Affairs Mr Mustafa Elitas-- Minister forEconomy Mr Berat Albayrak -- Minister forEnergy and Natural Resources Mr Ismet Yilmaz -- Minister forNational Defence H.E. Nesrin Bayazit -- TurkishAmbassador to Ghana.
Hon Members, you would recall thatbarely five years ago, this country playedhost to the former Turkish President, H.E.Abdullah Gül. This House and indeed allGhanaians had the privilege to share inthe words of wisdom of H.E. formerPresident Gül, which further cemented anddeepened the relationship between ourtwo countries. Trade between Ghana and Turkey hassince reached unprecedented levels,especially, in the last few years, with
Mr Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Ghana becoming the fourth largest tradingpartner of Turkey in Sub-Saharan Africa.

Address by H.E. the President of theRepublic of Turkey (Recep TayyipErdogan): It gives me great pleasure anda privilege to visit Ghana for the first time,and have the opportunity to address thevery august audience under this roof, you

the distinguished Members of theGhanaian Parliament and I would like totake this opportunity to extend mygratitude to you for having given me thischance. At the onset, I would like to extend mybest wishes and the most heartfeltemotions of the people of Turkey to thebrothers and sisters here in Ghana. In 1957, in Sub-Saharan Africa, Ghanawas the first country to declare fullindependence. That is why Ghana holdsa very specific position within the historyof the continent and an exclusiveposition. The independence struggle in Ghanais a shining beacon and an outstandingexample for the rest of the countries withinthe African continent. Mr Speaker, withthe historical role played by Ghana, thefirst President of Ghana, Dr Kwame Nkrumahdeserves a respectful commemoration. Under the leadership of Dr Nkrumah,Ghana gained full independence, and inthe last five decades, Ghana managed togain a very respectful position vis-à-visthe international community. Ghana is oneof the pioneering countries to pursue theideal of the unity of the African people. The African United Nations ideologyof the first President of Ghana is still avery vivid dream to be realised. It is anoutstanding example of the foresight ofPresident Nkrumah and I would like tosalute this memorable ideology of theformer President of Ghana as the currentPresident of the Republic of Turkey. Hon Members of the GhanaianParliament, ladies and gentlemen, theRepublic of Turkey has a thousand yearsof experience in Statehood and theRepublic of Turkey is the last name of theState to emerge out of the former

foundations. The 16 stars that we havewithin our presidential emblem signify thevery important States that wereestablished in the last few ages. TheOttoman Empire reigned over threecontinents and in the aftermath of the FirstWorld War, the Ottoman Empire startedto collapse. Our nation has been an object of theattacks of all the influential nations,especially in Europe, forged a war ofindependence, especially in the region ofdiagonals near Istanbul and finally,established the Republic of Turkey out ofthe ashes of the Ottoman Empire. Thisindependence became an outstandingexample and an inspiration for all thenations of the world suffering in the handsof tyrants. Our war of independence left tremen-dous marks behind, not only in Africabut also the rest of the world andfundamentally, our relations with Africadepends very much on a deeply-rootedhistory, especially Northern Africa havingbeen controlled by the Ottoman Empirefor ages. The Ottoman Empire left behindsignificant artifacts worth remembering bythe nations of this region. In the reign of the Ottoman Empire,there had never been a colonialisticapproach. On the contrary, just likeeverywhere else, the Ottoman Empirerespected fully the histories of the people,ethnicity, traditions, customs andreligions, upholding tolerance and justice. This was the governance under-standing of the Ottoman Empire and payclose attention: all the nations under theformer rule of the Ottoman Empire whichhave gained independence have neversuffered from cultural acrimony orcolonialism.

For example, no country had toabandon their own mother tongue andstart speaking Ottoman or Turkish. Nofollowers of a faith had to suffer for acompulsory shift in faith under the rule ofthe Ottoman Empire and Eastern Africa aswell as Northern Africa are theoutstanding example of this mentality. All relations with the African Continentdepends on equality, justice and mutualgains and we are still making tremendousefforts in order to ensure a win-winscenario. A contrary belief or mentality hasnever prevailed neither in our history norin our today. We attach great significance andsensitivity to the re-establishment andreconstruction of Somalia and I am sureyou are closely monitoring our kind oursincere interest in the resettlement and re-establishment of Somalia. We approach all of the nations on theAfrican Continent with the same love andcompassion. Ghana is one of ouroutstanding partners for development inthe Sub-Saharan Region. Ghana withdeeply rooted democracy is a moderncountry in Sub-Saharan Africa. Ghana has a pluralistic democracywhich she enjoys and is very determinedto protect human lives and the rule of lawwhich are well deserving and of closeappreciation. In your struggle fordemocracy and development, you willalways find us supportive by your sideas the Republic of Turkey. Mr Speaker and Hon Members ofParliament, our relations with the AfricanContinent depends on co-operation,fraternity, justice and equality. We aredetermined to pursue or goals and in thelight of our objectives, we are ready toforge close alliance in areas of culture,politics and foreign relations, as well asdefence.

We have a proper -- [Inaudible] --At the heart of our foreign policy withregard to the African Continent. We havebecome a strategic partner to the AfricanUnion and we have invested tremendousefforts within the framework of on Africaoutreach which depends on a visionaryapproach. Our policy vis-à-vis Africa depend onagricultural development, irrigation,energy, education, health care and regularhumanitarian aid on a wide array ofstrategies. We are an emerging donorcountry and Turkey has been undertakingprojects in thirty-seven (37) differentAfrican nations. The Turkish International Co-operation and Development Agency(TIKA) is a developmental agencyproviding significant contributions to thecountries on the African Continent. Our Non-Governmental Organisations(NGOs) are closely co-operating with thelocal authorities and forming alliances inthe fields of irrigation, education, nutritionand agriculture. We are investingtremendous efforts in order to help Africannations develop at the fastest ratepossible. Our volunteers and French offices areundertaking projects which are bringingour nations closer to one another. Withinthe framework of my current official visit,I came along with150 representatives ofmajor companies in Turkey and they aregetting together with their sectorcounterparts in Ghana. Along with H.E. Excellency, PresidentJohn Mahama, in a very short period oftime, we will be addressing the businessof the two countries and we are hoping toinspire them to further invest in our mutualcountries. The Turkish investors will be

encouraged to come here and invest inGhana. Similarly, Ghanaian businessmenare further encouraged to go and dobusiness in Turkey. They can join theirforces to go ahead and invest in thirdcountries to yield more bountiful results.These efforts will be solidified at thefarthest distance possible in the future. Between 18th August and 22nd August,2008, the Turkish African Co-operationSummit was held in Istanbul, which was amilestone for the relations betweenTurkey and Africa. We attach greatsignificance to the future flourishing ofour relations with African nations. Currently, we have 39 Embassies on theAfrican Continent. Back in the year 2003,the number of our Embassies were nomore than twelve (12). We hope and praythat we will be able to establish TurkishEmbassies in every nation and in everycorner on the entire African Continent. Mr Speaker, at the time when all of theEmbassies of the African countries werebeing shut-down on the AfricanContinent, we took a different approach.We started opening new Embassies andthis is worth paying attention to. Ten countries on the African Continenthad Embassies in Ankara in the past. Now,we have 32 Embassies in Ankara, whichbelong to countries of the AfricanContinent. Turkey is moving towards becomingone of the most influential and greatestten economies on the global scale withUS$800 billion of gross domestic product(GDP) and US$400 billion worth of foreigntrade volumes. We are ranked seventeenthon the global scale in terms of oureconomy.

We have a very dynamic populationand I believe there is a lot to be discoveredin terms of solidifying our co-operationwith the African Nations based on the veryrich resources of our nations. I am cordially inviting you to wintogether and build a prosperous futuretogether. With this belief and ideology,we will continue to open new Embassieson the African Continent and Ghana is ourpriority. Just as my predecessor, I ampaying this official visit to Ghana with thisoutstanding mentality in mind. The Turkish and Ghanaian tradevolume used to be US$41 million only in2002 and in 2011 and 2012, this figurereached half a billion doolars US$500billion. In the last three years, we have sufferedslight diminishing in the foreign tradevolumes between our nations, butsignificant opportunities for co-operation,especially, in the field of constructionand defence were explored. Currently, we enjoy US$400 million offoreign trade volumes between ournations and in the light of the deliberationswith the President this morning, we willincrease this figure to US$1 billion by theyear 2020. The Turkish companies will undertakemajor projects, in Ghana thus contributingtremendously to the development ofGhana. We need a much more robust andproductive co-operation for which weneed to encourage the companies of bothcountries. We have to move toward the commonobjectives and interests of our nations andwe have to improve our relations in everyaspect possible for the prosperity ourpeople.

I would like to reiterate that we arecommitted to the ideal of furtherstrengthening our co-operation withGhana. As stated in the beautiful proverbof Ghana, I would like to remind you thatwhen two people handle a burden, itbecome lighter. We are willing to carry thisburden along with Ghana and make itlighter for you. Mr Speaker and Hon Members ofParliament, terrorism is a plague of thisday and age. The terrorists areundertaking bloody attacks arounddifferent corners of the world, which posea great threat on the national security ofall the nations on a global scale. Therefore,the terrorist attacks which took place inBurkina Faso and Mali have beencondemned significantly by the Republicof Turkey. Primarily, in our fight against terrorism,we have to take a mutual stand on it andespecially in the countries in West African,we can contribute to the establishment ofglobal peace and stability. Turkey has a vast array of experiencecombating terrorism. That is why we understand thecountries suffering in the hands ofterrorism best. In the entirety of counterterrorism platforms, Turkey is aninfluential and active figure. I would liketo vocalise this fact from the GhanaianParliament to the rest of the world. In order to combat terrorism, we haveto base our efforts on principles agreedunanimously by the nations of the world,especially the United Nations and theSecurity Council. There is failure to servethe greater needs of the nations on a globalscale and instead, it is only serving beliefsof a few elite countries.
Mr Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Hon Members, on behalfof the House, I do convey to HisExcellency the President of the Republicof Turkey the gratitude of the House. TheHouse will give due consideration to thecontent of his message just delivered. Atthis stage, I can only say long live thedemocracies of Ghana and Turkey. Thank you very much, Your Excellencythe President of the Republic of Turkeyfor your address. Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Bagbin 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I can only, inthe limited time available, add my voice toyours to welcome His Excellency thePresident of Turkey to the Parliament ofGhana. Mr Speaker --
Mr Speaker 1:45 p.m.
I have looked at the timeand I was wondering whether we should
proceed to do further Business or theHouse should adjourn so that we knowwhat to do. That was why I invited youfirst; whether I should suspend or weshould adjourn -- [Interruption.] Thatis why --
Mr Bagbin 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we have someserious business to transact. So, I prayand plead with your goodself and seekthe indulgence of my Hon Colleagues forus to take just a short break so that weproperly see off our august Visitor andcome back and continue with the Businessof the House.
Mr Speaker 1:45 p.m.
In that case, I direct thatthe House Sits outside the prescribedperiod. At this stage, I will suspend Sittingbriefly to enable me see off the Presidentof the Republic of Turkey. I would kindlyinvite the Hon Majority and MinorityLeaders to join me to see off the Presidentof the Republic of Turkey. The House is suspended for 10minutes. 1.55 p.m. -- Sitting suspended. 2. 30 p. m. --Sitting resumed
MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
HonDeputy Majority Leader?
Mr Agbesi 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we were onitem numbered 12, the Ghana Export-Import Bank Bill, 2015 before our guestentered the House. Mr Speaker, we canstill continue with the Consideration Stageof that Bill.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
HonMembers, we resume the ConsiderationStage of the Ghana Export-Import BankBill, 2015.
BILLS -- CONSIDERATIONSTAGE 1:45 p.m.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
HonMembers, the Ghana Export-Import BankBill, 2015 at the Consideration Stage. I willput the Question on clause (2). Clause (2) is a clause that Hon HarunaIddrisu proposed an amendment to on thefloor and then he withdrew it after he hadexplained why he proposed it in the firstplace. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause (2) ordered to stand part of theBill.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Yes, HonGifty Kusi?
Mrs Eugenia Gifty Kusi 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker,thank you very much. Mr Speaker, we did not make anyarrangement to have an Extended Sitting.Besides, we do not have the quorum. So,Mr Speaker, Standing Order 48 does notallow us to stay and work without thenumbers. Mr Speaker, I therefore move,that this House do adjourn.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
You dowhat? You move, that the Houseadjourns? Under what Standing Order areyou coming?
Mrs Kusi 1:45 p.m.
Standing Order 48.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Whatdoes it say? Yes, you have given two reasons, oneis that arrangements were not made tohave an Extended Sitting. You have beena Minority Chief Whip before.
Mr Agbesi 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the HonMember has raised the issue of quorumunder Standing Order 48. Mr Speaker, under the Standing Orders,you will cause the bell to be rung and wewill wait for 10 minutes to see -- The Whips have gone round to bringHon Members to the House. So, MrSpeaker, under the rules, you are entitledto 10 minutes after the issue has beenraised.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker,I heard you put the Question on clause(2). But if you do not mind, I would wantus to come back to clause 1. Mr Speaker, even though in many ofthe Bills that we have crafted, we havemaintained this construction, I believe thatthe time has come for us to look at this. Clause (1) provides: There is established by this Act a bodyco-operate with a perpetual cessation tobe known as the Ghana Export-ImportBank referred to in this Act as the “Bank”. Mr Speaker, once we say ‘there isestablished by this Act a body co-operatewith perpetual cessation', then theconstruction that follows should be,“known as”, not “to be known as”. We are saying that, by this Act, wehave established it and if we haveestablished it, then the sequel should beknown as “Ghana Export-Import Bank”referred to in this Act.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 a.m.
HonMinority Leader, we have already doneclause 1.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker,I was drawing your attention to that. Thisis not our first time of doing this, so, Ithink that we should look at thisconstruction. It is so because, if you lookat our Standing Orders for instance,Standing Order 33 (3) provides, and withyour permission, I beg to read:
“The Clerk shall keep a book to becalled the Order Book…” Now that we have adopted this, itshould read as follows, “The Clerk shallkeep a book called the Order Book…”, andnot “to be called”. We have thatconstruction in many of the Acts. Once itis established by the Act, it is known as“Ghana Export-Import Bank” not “to becalled Ghana Import-Export Bank”. Thatis the consideration that I wanted us toadvert our minds to.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 2:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, Iagree with the Hon Minority Leader,except that, I do not agree with him oncertain aspects of what he said. The newdrafting style is to capture some of theseexpressions in the present tense insteadof “to be known as”, “known as”, “it ishereby established”, “known as not tobe”. At the time the Standing Orders weredrafted, that was the style. Recently, thedrafting style has changed and it is notbecause it is wrong. As to whether it is right or wrong, nowthe drafting style is to make it -- I do notknow the term, if he could help me, presentparticiple or -- I am not a student of theEnglish Language.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 a.m.
Eventhough we have already considered that,I can ask the draftspersons to look at itregarding the comment that has beenmade. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 3 -- Functions of the Bank.
Chairman of the Committee (MrJames K. Avedzi) 2:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg tomove, clause 3, paragraph (i), line 2,delete “national development” and insert“import”. Mr Speaker, the new rendition wouldread,
“jointly invest in domestic businessoperations in order to support exportor import”.
Dr Prempeh 2:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I wouldplead that you hold on with putting theQuestions. This is because, the numbersare not sufficient to take decisions.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 a.m.
Then weshould not even --
Dr Prempeh 2:40 a.m.
An Hon Member hadrisen on Standing Order 48 --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 a.m.
But the10 minutes is not up.
Dr Prempeh 2:40 a.m.
I agree but putting theQuestion now becomes problematic.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 a.m.
It doesnot. The Standing Orders did not say so.We have not counted.
Dr Prempeh 2:40 a.m.
The numbers to takedecisions is a different part of the StandingOrders. Mr Speaker, we need 50 Members--
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker,I noticed that, Hon Members are tricklinginto the Chamber. Whether we are thereor not, when we do not have the numbers,respectfully, I would say we are there. Thisis because, you might need to put aQuestion on any issue that you raise andthe Question requires a given number tomake a determination. As I said, I noticedthat Hon Members are trickling in. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Chairman of the Committee (MrJames K. Avedzi) 2:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg tomove, clause 3, paragraph (p), line 2,after “Board” add “under its investmentguidelines”.
Mr Speaker, the Committee thinks thatthe Board should be guided byinvestment guidelines in investing thebank's surplus money. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr James K. Avedzi 2:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I begto move, clause 3, paragraph (v), line 3,after “Ghana”, add “to support export andimport activities”. The new rendition is:
“grant loans and advances to anyperson in Ghana in connection withthe equity contribution in any jointventure in any country outsideGhana to support export or importactivity. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker,early on, when the issue about thesupport for import activities came up, theHon Minister for Finance indicated that,we might support the activities of importonly to the extent that it would supportexport activities. If you leave it the way we have left it,the issue that the Hon Minister forFinance raised would be defeated. I donot know whether he has a qualifier forthat, otherwise, it would defeat the veryissue that he raised in his earliersubmission when he related to clause 3(c). He said, and with your permission,I beg to quote:
“the importation of goods orservices for use in manufacturinggoods for export.” If you leave what you are doing inclause 3 (v), the way it has beenconstructed without that qualifier, then itwould leave the door open and it couldbe exploited.
Mr Terkper 2:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I would urgethe Hon Minority Leader to read this inthe context of the loans and advances inquestion being granted to any person inGhana. So, the first part says -- I beg toread:
“grant loans and advances to anyperson in Ghana in connection withthe equity contribution in any jointventure in any country outsideGhana.”
Where we are looking at probably aventure where I am a proprietor in Ghanabut taken an interest in -- Let us say --my principal from whom I have beentrading who now wants me to become apartner. But it would still be in furtheranceof my activities in Ghana. So, it is envisaged that Ghanaianentrepreneurs would either go andestablish entities outside the country orgo into partnership with entities outsidethe country for the purposes of furtheringtheir businesses in Ghana. What the amendment seeks to do is tore-emphasise that this should be for thepurposes of imports and exports. Ittherefore, falls in line with theexplanation given.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 a.m.
HonMinority Leader, have you beenpersuaded by the force of the argumentby the Hon Minister for Finance?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker,not really. Except that my attention hasbeen drawn to the interpretation where itprovides that, import means import to theextent that it facilitates or supports export.I thought that was what the Hon Ministerfor Finance should draw my attention to.Otherwise, I was going to draw hisattention to clause 3 (r).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 a.m.
I couldnot agree with you more. So, now, youhave abandoned it.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:40 a.m.
It was not aconvincing point that he made. But withwhat is provided for in the interpretation,I think that we are covered.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
The HonMinority Leader and the Hon Minister forFinance have a relationship that engagethem a bit. Let me intervene and put theQuestion. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
Yes, HonChairman, is that the end of theamendments? Yes, Hon Haruna Iddrisu? Are you anHon Member of the Committee?
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 2:50 p.m.
No, Mr Speaker.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
Are youan Hon Member of Cabinet?
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 2:50 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
Did thisthing come to Cabinet?
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 2:50 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker. Cabinet gives policy approval but I amexercising my right as an Hon Member tocontribute to an elegant Bill and an Act ofParliament.
Mr Speaker, on page 33 of the State ofthe Nation Address, and I beg to quote 2:50 p.m.
“Additionally, as part of our agendato achieve a value-added and export-led economy, the Ghana Export and
Mr Avedzi 2:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the onlyproblem I have with this proposedamendment is, if we say SMEs, what dowe mean by that? We have to look at thedefinition of the SMEs. If we do not define
it in order to actually serve the purpose ofthis Bank, the Bank would be flooded withso many applications. This is because, the entire country isdotted with SMEs. Somebody who has asmall kiosk somewhere is also in the SMEbusiness; if we do not have a definitionfor the SMEs. I would comfortably go bythis if we have a definition for SMEs, sothat we do not open the door for anyproprietor going to the Bank for support. Mr Speaker, that is the only problem.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
HonMember, when you go to any Bank, theBank has the right to either support youor not, and the Bank would have its owninternal guidelines; thresholds and so on.They can have that intention to supportyou. Dr Owusu Afriyie Akoto-- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
Yes, HonDr Owusu Afriyie; Member of Parliamentfor Kwadaso?
Dr Akoto 2:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I support whatthe Hon Member for Tamale South saidbut I would go further than that. Mr Speaker, we need to recognise that,whatever objectives that have been setfor this Bank is to promote exports. In thiscountry, the resources that we have to addvalue to for export is agriculture. It is not just with SMEs, but I wouldfurther say that, the value addition toagricultural activities should take a certainpercentage of disbursement of this Bankto ensure it does not end up like theAgricultural Development Bank (ADB),where 100 per cent is for agriculturalfinancing and at the end of the day, it isonly 2 per cent after so many years.
We need to find a way to guaranteethat the funding for activities of this Bankis basically to support the agriculturalsector. How many times do we have ordersfrom abroad; Canada, United States ofAmerica and Europe? People ask for,maybe, a hundred containers per monthof some agricultural produce with valueaddition and it is just like something outof this world. It is not possible because, the primaryproducers themselves do not have thecapacity. Those who by their bootstrapsget the goods have been able to puttogether some financing to do maybe ahundred acres of this activity or that, yetthey do not have the local support ofBanks. The processors of maize, soyabean and cotton for example, and othersdo not also have the facility for financing. So, I would strongly suggest that, toensure that the objects of this Bank areachieved, we actually allocate a portionof the disbursement in this Act to specificactivities in agricultural processing andother activities.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
HonMember for Kwadaso, your suggestion,perhaps may not find space here. You aresupporting this, but you are going a littlefurther to talk about percentages. Here,we are just dealing with the functions ofthe Bank. Of course, if you support HonHaruna Iddrisu, that would form the basesof a further proposal.
Dr Akoto 2:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, you are right. Iam flying a kite here; perhaps, you findwhere it is appropriate to put thisprovision. This is because I feel verystrongly that at the end of the day -- thisis where some of my Hon Colleaguesspoke against imports. This is because itis very easy to turn this Bank into a
Consumer Importing Bank. Down the linein the next five, ten to fifteen years, wewould find that, this Bank has moved frompromoting exports to something else. Wehave had an experience with the ADB. Mr Speaker, with the NationalInvestment Bank (NIB), if you look at theoriginal object, you would see whatexactly I am talking about. It was forpromotion of the industry --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
And theBank for Housing and Construction.
Dr Akoto 2:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that is evengone under, so, I would not even talkabout that. It went so far that all of itsobjects sank. The NIB sank at a point instage with ADB and we saw the problemswe had. We need to guide this Bank by thisAct and ensure that they would be specificin the activities they do in order to realisetheir object. Mr Speaker, I am in your hands as towhere we can accommodate such a facilityin the Act. Mr Benjamin K. Kpodo -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
Yes, HonMember?
Mr Kpodo 2:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think thebasic motive for establishing this Bank isto promote export-led activities. If we come down to state specific areasthat we would apply the funds, we wouldbe tying the hands of the management ofthe Bank. For instance, if we say, give 20per cent to agriculture, yet we do not haveapplications that amount to that 20 percent, what would happen to the fund thatis --?
Mr Kpodo 3 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that theprovision in this amendment is enough.We do not need to further break it downin order to a l locate funds to thevarious —
Dr A. A. Osei 3 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I crave theindulgence of the Hon Minister forEmployment and Labour Relations to makea small amendment to his amendment. Thisis just to be consistent with the fact thatwe are dealing with export oriented firms.I suggest, we say “agro-processing andexports”, instead of agro processing forexports. It should not be, “and export”,we should do the agro-processing onlyfor exports. Mr Speaker, we can say, “providesupport for small and medium enterprisesengaged in agro-processing and exporttrade” So, if I am doing agro-processing thatis not for export, I would qualify, but thatis not the object of this Bill. It is not for
exports, then it would not qualify for thefunds here. Mr Speaker, to buttress my point, wedefined import as —
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3 p.m.
HonMember for Tamale South, look at thesecond part of the Memorandum; it says,
“Ghana's export sector has evolvedsignificantly over recent decades.In line with the nation's economicand industrialisation process, thecomposition of exports hasgradually added non-traditionalproducts to the largely indigenousexported products. Though, thereis fairly an impressive developmentin the export sector, the perceivedidea of transforming Ghana'seconomy towards an export ledeconomy has made it necessary toadopt a policy to drive this laudableidea.” The whole focus is on exports. And asHon Dr Anthony Akoto Osei said, it says:
“…engaged in agro-processing forexport trade”. If it is generally foragro-processing, that is not thepurpose —
Dr A. A. Osei 3 p.m.
Agro-processing, if it isnot for export, it cannot be an object ofthis Bill —
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3 p.m.
Is it agro-processing in Cape Coast or Tamale tobring to Accra, or in Cape Coast to bringto Tamale?. But is the Minister bound bythe policy or you can change it? Hon Minister for Finance, you arehere; they say you can change the policy— the Hon Minority Leader says you canchange the policy —
The Hon Minister said that we shouldask him whether his view is different fromwhat is stated in the Memorandum.
Mr Terkper 3 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the point youand the Hon Ranking Member made isvery important. There are three points ofemphases as I see in the proposedamendment. There is a focus on SMEs,agro-processing and exports. We havealready gone through a discussion tostress that this Bill is primarily for exports.This is why I agree with the Hon RankingMember that, if we are going to emphasisfor policy reasons, SMEs, must still havean export orientation. Mr Speaker, I agree that, all SMEs arebusinesses — What I thought my HonColleague sought to emphasise was that,SMEs should be stated for points ofemphases because of the majority ofbusinesses. But it must necessarily be forexports, as the Hon Ranking Member said.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3 p.m.
Before Irecognise Hon Prof. Gyan-Baffour, HonHaruna Iddrisu wants to further explainhimself.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 3 p.m.
Mr Speaker, theHon Minister captures it succinctly, butmy emphasis is on letting the Banksupport Small and Medium Enterprises,but the question is: which category ofSmall and Medium Enterprises shouldthey support? Medium Enterprisesengaged in agro-processing becausevalue — [Interruption.] Mr Speaker, I would give a practicalexample. We have Danadams, whichcurrently exports pharmaceuticals to Togoand surrounding areas. Is that agro-processing? That is export trade. Whenthe President appeared before Parliament
to deliver the State of the Nation Address,he counted it as success; support to thepharmaceutical sector engaged in exporttrade. So, we are dealing with two legs;the first part of it being those involved inagro-processing. Mr Speaker, some would be used fordomestic consumption — [Interruption]— but there are those involved in exporttrade that is not directly related to agro-processing. We must capture that. Thiswas part of an earlier legislation we lookedat. We are not just targeting agro-processing; there are other SMEsinvolved in export trade who would requirethe support of this financial institution,like the example I gave of Danadams, whois involved in pharmaceuticals — whichis not agro-processing.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3 p.m.
Withrespect, Hon Minister, I am getting a bitconfused because as far as Small andMedium Scale Businesses are concerned,there is nothing in the Act that restrictsthe Banks in supporting Small andMedium Scale Businesses. I do not seeanything -- Hon Majority Leader, do you seeanything? I am inviting the Hon MajorityLeader. So, the only thing that I see andwould fully support if I was voting, andwould vote for, is the agro-processing,and the question is that, is it agro-processing generally or agro-processingfor export trade? Hon Majority Leader, I seek yourassistance.
Mr Bagbin 3 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think it isjust being raised for targeting. Apart fromthat, they are all covered by the provisionsas — in fact, explicitly stated in clause 3,particularly, when we read clause 3 (u).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3 p.m.
The HonMajority Leader has supported yousafely, a change from “and” to “for”; “. . .agro-processing and export trade” to“…agro-processing for export trade”.That is the sense I get. He says he is withyou if it is, “for export”, but he is not withyou if it is not for export alone.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 3 p.m.
Mr Speaker,appreciated.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3 p.m.
We havethe local Banks. So, Hon Haruna Iddrisu,do you agree to the further amendment? Question put and amendment agreedto. I will put the Question on clause 3. Some Hon Members — rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3 p.m.
Whathave I done wrong that the Hon MajorityLeader, the Hon Minority Leader and HonDr Anthony Akoto Osei are all on theirfeet?
Hon Minority Leader, what sin have Icommitted?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker,do you want to put the Question on theentire clause 3 as variously amended?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:10 p.m.
I would justwant us to have a look at clause (a) and Ihope the Hon Minister for Finance islistening.
Mr Speaker, clause 3 (a) provides 3:10 p.m.
“To achieve its object, the Bankshall a) buy, procure, sell, dispose of,lease, lease out, hire-pur-chase, hire-purchase out,borrow, lend, accept pledge,accept mortgage, exchange,transfer, accept transfers orexecute any acts regarding itsproperty, both inside andoutside the country, as wellas accept property given byothers;”
Mr Speaker, when you take out theword “buy”, to what are you going torelate it? What? I would want to believethat it relates to, maybe, property. If itis property, then it is not properlyconstructed. [Interruption.] Dr A. A. Osei — rose --
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:10 p.m.
That is thepoint I am making -- [Pause.]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
A silenttrade has gone on.
Dr A. A. Osei 3:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I wouldwant to support the Hon Minority Leader,I believe the word ‘property' is missingafter “purchase out” such that if you donot have the ‘property' after purchase outit does not make much sense.
Dr A. A. Osei 3:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, line 2; itshould be:
“buy, procure, sell, dispose of, lease,lease out, hire-purchase, ...” In fact, there should not be two hire-purchases. If we make it “high-purchaseproperty then borrow regarding thisproperty” that would make more sensethan the way it is now.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
We candirect that the draftspersons make thenecessary additions and subtractionsbecause if I understand the Hon MinorityLeader, he said that there is a missingword, and for that matter, “buy what?” So,they should go and reconstruct. Yes, Hon Minister for Finance andHon Chairman of the Committee, I thinkthat I am going to put the Question but Iwould direct that the draftsperson takeinto account -- Mr Chireh — rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
Yes, HonYieleh Chireh?
Mr Joseph Yieleh Chireh 3:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker,if you look at the whole of subclause (a),I think there is a problem with it. The samethings have been itemised along --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
So, giveus a suggestion.
Mr Chireh 3:10 p.m.
My suggestion is thatthere are too many verbs there; “buy”,“procure”, et cetera. I would want toalso suggest that the whole of subclause(a) should be looked at again. If they arenot repeated in the other functions, thatis alright. Wherever it reappears in thefunctions that are listed up to clause (y),they should not be put there becausethere are too many things in there.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
HonYieleh Chireh, I believe you are apharmacist. Am I right?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
And youare also a Lawyer?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
And youalso have a postgraduate certificate inlegal drafting?
Mr Chireh 3:10 p.m.
Yes; and in good standing.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
Youwould be kind enough to assist us in thenew rendition. So, I would stand downclause (3) and move on to clause 4. Thank you. [Interruption.] See Hon Chireh; we have appointedhim special draftsperson in charge ofclause 3. [Interruption.] What is it,please?
Dr A. A. Osei 3:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if theMinister will advert his mind here --Clause 3 (h).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
Sorry,Hon Yieleh Chireh, I am serious with whatI said. I would get back to you in aboutthree or four clauses so that you give us asuggestion.
Dr A. A. Osei 3:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I crave theindulgence of the Hon Minister for Financein particular, that we can take out clause3(h) without having any effect on the Bill.
Dr A. A. Osei 3:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 3 (h)says:
“Jointly invest in overseas businessoperations aimed at contributing toimportation from Ghana or promo-ting Ghanaian businesses”. What exactly did we say?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
I wouldgive you an example of the one I talkedabout immediately and I stand corrected. In some countries, they can supportan outlet for their exports. For example,we can have an outlet called Ghana Housein Burkina Faso where we can export ourcane-chairs and other things from Ghanato the place and it can be cheaper for ourexporters. This organisation -- Well, I donot know; Hon Minister?
Dr A. A. Osei 3:10 p.m.
The Minister --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
Sorry,they have asked you a question, HonMinister. What do you mean by that?
Mr Terkper 3:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in actual fact,we were engaged in a similar tete-a-tetehere regarding overseas businessoperations. I think you are right in the sense that,we could have the EXIM Bank financingor jointly participating in enablingGhanaian businesses or entities such asthe Ghana Export Promotion Authority, upfor the purposes of promoting, within the
European Union ( EU) or other places, inan office. In doing so, it must establish itsimilar to subclause (v) where you cangrant and advance to any person in Ghanain connection with the equity contributionin any joint venture in any countryoutside Ghana. I think what is envisaged here is that,it is possible to go and establish busi-nesses outside -- [Interruption] -- Anexample, is the Chamber of Commerce ofDubai which has an office in the WorldTrade Centre. I know that they intend toestablish that just for the purposes ofpromoting businesses overseas. We operate from here, however, and itis envisaged that in conjunction with otherinstitutions, we could also do a similarthing.
Dr A. A. Osei 3:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my issuerelates to the fact that, a non-Ghanaiancould engage in this joint overseasinvestment and he or she would qualify.For example, I am not Ghanaian, I comefrom Sweden but I have opened a jointoverseas business and I carry importationfrom Ghana and I can come to the GhanaEXIM Bank -- that is my worry. If it is for Ghanaian businesses, I donot have a problem. It is not clear and Itherefore seek clarity. If we do that,then foreigners would take over --[Laughter.] -- and we would not haveany Ghanaian doing that. I think the policy is good if it isrestricted to Ghanaians. I accept that butit means some qualifications must comein to ensure that, otherwise, they wouldbeat us to it. That is my worry and that iswhy I needed to seek clarification.
Mr Terkper 3:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, by coinci-dence, it is such that the Hon MajorityLeader has not yet made his contribution
but that must have also been a point ofemphasis when he got up and consultedwith me that we should give it a Ghanaianemphasis just for the avoidance of doubt.That it is to promote Ghanaian businessesand if it suits the House I think --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
There isnowhere in the Act that said that. The Act talks about export from Ghana.Export from Ghana can be by wholly-owned Foreign businesses. In fact, oneexample that has been given today is BlueSkies Products (Ghana) Limited and thatis not a Ghanaian business. They are twocompletely different things. There is a difference between en-couraging export from Ghana, so I cancome from Sweden, and using his example,establish a business here for the purposeof exporting out of Ghana. We are not concerned about who ownsthe business. All we are concerned aboutis the export from Ghana. If you wouldwant to restrict it to Ghanaians too, lookat the Ghana Investment PromotionCentre (GIPC) Act and the definition ofGhanaians over the years. At some time in our nation, Ghanaianbusiness was defined as one with majorityownership of the company incorporatedin Ghana. At another time, it was definedas one in which Ghanaians have controlover management. Now, it is defined as100 per cent ownership. Look at our GIPCAct. So, it is legislated. If the aim is toencourage or restrict this thing toGhanaians, it must be in the Act.
Hon Majority Leader, before I call theMinister for Finance.
Mr Bagbin 3:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that is thereason we were trying to propose anamendment to clause 3 (h) to read;
“jointly invest in Ghanaian businessoverseas operations aimed atcontributing to importation fromGhana or promoting Ghanaianbusinesses”.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
Did youdefine Ghanaian business? [Inter-ruption.] Under all the investmentspecific Acts, when you talk aboutGhanaian business, you would have todefine it.
Mr Bagbin 3:20 p.m.
Yes. So, the definition herecould be a business in which a Ghanaianowns majority shares.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
Is thatwhat you are suggesting?
Mr Bagbin 3:20 p.m.
Yes.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
But it isnot here. Or tomorrow, it will be on theOrder Paper?
Mr Bagbin 3:20 p.m.
As a minority shareholder,one does not own the business. It cannotbe Ghanaian business if one is holdingminority shares. It must be majorityshares.
Mr Joseph Cudjoe 3:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thinkthe concern raised by the Hon Akoto Oseiis a genuine one. It is easily addressedwhen we just insert -- I would want to read and include theinsertion; that is clause 3 (h):
“jointly invest in overseas businessoperations promoted by Ghanaians…”
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
HonAvedzi, is the Turkish interpretation stillgoing on? I could see your headphonesand I was wondering whether --[Interruption] -- [Laughter.] Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
Yes.Sorry, are you taking over from --
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:20 p.m.
No! I am justgiving my Hon Colleague information. Ifhe says that it should be promoted byGhanaians, they need not own any sharesat all. If their contribution is by way ofadvertising it, they are promoting it, yetthey would have no shares -- So, withrespect to my Hon Colleague, that iswrong.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
I thinkunder section 12 of the Companies Act,1963, (Act 179), a promoter of a companyis the one who is interested in thepromotion of the company. He hasnothing to do with ownership. Promotionand ownership are two totally differentthings. [Interruption.] I know you used it in a general sensebut because it has been given a sense inthe Company law, that sense in theCompany law takes precedence over thegeneral sense. The promoter can have aninterest or may not have any interest asthe Hon Minority Leader said. So, Hon Members, what do we do? DoI put the Question on the amendmentproposed? [Interruption] -- Yes, HonMinister for Finance, what do we do now?-- [Interruption] -- Various amendmentshave been carried out relating to clause 3--
Mr Terkper 3:20 p.m.
Hon Speaker, eventhough I get the sense of what HonMembers are saying in particular, what theHon Majority Leader has just asked thatwe do, which is with your permission, Ibeg to quote:

My other concern is that, we may bemaking the bank's activities too restrictiveto the point where the bank may not bein a position to promote entrepreneurswho may not necessarily be Ghanaian butmay be promoting Ghanaian exports. The essence is to promote Ghanaianexports and as the bank grows and itscapital base grows, it must look out forother businesses, which might notnecessarily be indigenous. That is my only reservation. Otherwise,I think that the point of emphasis is clear.Whether we are not moving to the pointwhere there is an escape clause -- Ofcourse, in clause 3 (v), it makes provisionfor contribution in equity which could bewhole or partial. Some Hon Members -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
I wouldrecognise Hon Dr Akoto Osei.
Dr A. A. Osei 3:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, myunderstanding was that, the two are notmutually exclusive. We have severalfunctions, but there is also an objectiveto promote Ghanaian business operations.The only problem we have to advert ourminds to is that, the amendment that iscoming up where we defined a Ghanaianbusiness as one which is 100 per centowned, is problematic as the HonMajority Leader said. If we accept his amendment and change“wholly” to “majority” when we get there,I believe, it would serve both purposes.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
HonChairman of the Committee, give us thefinal rendition so that I put the Question.
[Interruption.] The thing has beenproposed, amended and counter-amendedso much that I have appointed you thereferee and an honest broker --[Laughter.] Hon Chairman of the Committee?[Interruption.] All right. Hon Dr AkotoOsei, please, give us the final --[Interruption.] Yes, Hon Cudjoe, Member ofParliament for Effia?
Mr Joseph Cudjoe 3:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, Ibelieve that the rendition as it standsshould be maintained. The reason is‘jointly invest'; my understanding is‘equity participation' which meanswhatever operations it is, it givesGhanaian characterisation of thebusiness, because if you invest five percent, it means that operation takes aGhanaian counterpart for the bank toachieve that. As it stands, it is implicit that thereis Ghanaian participation in that overseasbusiness operation.
Dr A. A. Osei 3:20 p.m.
The emphasis is on“majority owned” and not “participation”.[Interruption.] Equity could be only fiveper cent but we want the Ghanaianbusiness to have 51 per cent majority.That is what we are talking about. Thefive per cent is not enough.
Mr Speaker, if you would accept,following from the Hon Majority Leader, Iwould say clause 3 (h) may be amendedto read:
“Jointly invest in overseasGhanaian business operation aimedat contributing to importation fromGhana or promoting Ghanaianbusinesses;”
In fact, we could cut out ‘Ghanaianbusinesses' at the end. [Interruption.]We could maintain‘…contribute toimportation from Ghana' and stop therebecause we have changed the earlierrendition. This would be alright. Mr Speaker, if I may repeat --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
HonMember, let me urge you to look at clause3 (i). This is because it contradicts clause3 (h) the way you want to -- Clause 3(i) states:
“jointly invest in domestic businessoperations…” ‘Domestic' means just locally basedand it can be wholly or foreign- owned--
Dr A. A. Osei 3:20 p.m.
Yes. At least, you gaveus the example of Blue Skies Product(Ghana) Limited. You would not want toexclude them. That is why I said the twoare not mutually exclusive.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
Yes. So,what is the purpose of clause 3 (h) then?If it is general, then they can decide tosupport either Ghanaian businesses ornon-Ghanaian businesses.
Dr A. A. Osei 3:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the purposeof clause 3(h) is to specifically promoteGhanaian businesses. There is anemphasis on ‘Ghanaian' and not anybusiness. Or you could take out clause 3(h), but as it is, if you would want topromote Ghanaian businesses, you wouldhave to be explicit. Mr Speaker, but it is not mutuallyexclusive. We are promoting Blue SkyProduct (Ghana) Limited here, but wecould also promote a Ghanaian business
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 3:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if youwould, we should take clause 3 (h)together with clause 3 (i). Probably, if the Hon Minister issatisfied at the policy level, what we areseeking to achieve in clause 3 (h) and (i)is in respect of clause (3) (h), it reads:
“ (h) jointly invest in overseasbusiness operations aimed atcontributing to importation fromGhana…”
Mr Speaker, that is the same thing assaying ‘exports from Ghana'. We are allpromoting Ghanaian businesses. If wecome to clause 3 (i), which is about thesame, we have the domestic leg of it, whereit says:
“…jointly invest in domesticbusiness operations in order tosupport export…” Even there, I would have a problem withthe use of the word “or”. “…or nationaldevelopment” -- [Interruptions.] Thank you.
Mr Terkper 3:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think theamendment to settle is that clause 3 (h)and (i) have different purposes. One isreferring to domestic businesses and theother one is referring to overseas
businesses. I think the issue on the flooris whether that overseas entity should bea Ghanaian owned business. This is theamendment on the floor. I do not know ifwe could substitute the two. If as has been suggested, we put theemphasis on majority ownership, the onlything is that most -- Particularly, if wetake persons who can establish to includecorporates, then just as we have in the oilsector, the majority of the investments inGhana, even though they have an exportorientation, are not owned by Ghanaiancompanies. This is because of the depthof our capital market, which is not deepenough. So, we should keep the two apart andsettle the amendment on the floor.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:30 p.m.
HonMembers, should I put the Question?[Interruption.] Of course, you came topropose the new amendment, so, couldyou give us the rendition for the last timeso that I put the Question?
Mr Bagbin 3:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the renditionon clause 3 (h) would read:
“(h) jointly invest in overseasbusiness operations aimed atcontributing to importation fromGhana or promoting Ghanaianbusinesses.”
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:30 p.m.
I will putthe Question to the proposed amendmentto clause 3 (h) as rendered by the HonMajority Leader. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:30 p.m.
HonYieleh Chireh, have you finished yourrendition of clause 3 (a)?
Mr Chireh 3:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am still on it.The reason is that clause 3 (a) shouldreally be broken into two. I am trying towork out how the “buy and sell” couldlead to property, and handle the transfersalso separately to deal with the instru-ments of the property. This is because all those words haveto qualify some activity, and what is that?It is the property purchase. Mr Speaker,but if we say “buy”, “sell” and “procure”,it takes so many of them to qualify onething. So, we need to separate the activitiesinto two. That is what I would want topropose in clause 3 (a).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:30 p.m.
So, Iwould defer putting the Question on theentire clause 3 and go to clause 4.
Mr Terkper 3:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in terms ofobjectives and not drafting, what it issaying is that, what we have there is alist of possible transactions that couldtake place, which is also regarded as non-exhaustive for which reason we have,“…or execute any acts”. This is in theevent that it does not envisage all of thesetransactions with regard to the property. It is looking at the normal transactionswhich could be financial transactions.That is what is listed there. Even afterlisting all those, it is saying it is notexhaustive, so, it says:
“(a) …any acts regarding itsproperty, both inside andoutside the country, as well asaccept property given byothers;” Mr Speaker, it is just a list oftransactions, all in relation to property.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:30 p.m.
HonMembers, should I put the Question onclause 3?
Dr A. A. Osei 3:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the issuethat was raised was that, it is very clumsyas it is now, when we read it. Perhaps, wecould find a better way --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:30 p.m.
I thinkthe draftsperson, working with Hon YielehChireh, can work on it. Several times, wegive these things to the draftspersons. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 3 as amended ordered to standpart of the Bill. Clause 4 ordered to stand part of theBill.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:30 p.m.
HonMinister for Finance, I would continue,but I want to ask you a question. I did notcomment on it because I am not supposedto do so. Who regulates this Institution?Is it the Hon Minister for Finance? We have put the Question on clause 4already, but if we look at clause 4 (2), it isnot subject to the regulation and thesupervision of the Bank of Ghana or theBanking Act. I thought that banking hasto be under their supervision and underwhat we rendered as the solution, we evensought to make the Bank of Ghanaindependent.
Mr Bagbin 3:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the bank isregulated by the law. That is all.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:30 p.m.
So is itexcluded from the Bank of Ghana?
Mr Bagbin 3:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is excludedfrom the purview of the Bank of Ghana.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:30 p.m.
HonMinister for Finance, this is just for therecords so that if the issue arises in court,they could refer to your submission in --
Prof. Gyan-Baffour 3:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I donot know who did that research for theHon Minister for Finance, but theresearch that I have also done shows that,the Export-Import Bank (EXIM) of Indiais actually regulated by the FederalReserve Bank of India. I just did not want to talk about thisissue because we talked about it the lasttime. [Interruption.] Yes. Only last week,we started talking about DKM DiamondMicrofinance and the rest which are notregulated by anybody and they aremessing up the financial system. Now, theyare saying that we should have anotherbank which will not be regulated by thecentral bank. Where does that take us? Mr Speaker, is the Hon Minister forFinance going to be the one to regulate itor by who and by which law? Just by thelaw? There has to be a regulator and therehas to be a supervisor of this Bankotherwise, we would end up with a

Mr Speaker, the supervision is actuallyto ensure that the financial marketoperates effectively not for any otherreason. And it is going to be part of thefinancial sector even though it is notgoing to receive deposits, it is going togive credits. Is that not a bankingoperation? It is. Mr Speaker, I think we may also haveto seek guidance from the Governor or thecentral bank before we actually go aheadwith this clause 4.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:40 p.m.
Clause 4has already been carried so this was just-- Yes, Hon Minister for Finance? Mr Haruna Iddrisu -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:40 p.m.
We willcome to your amendment or you want tocomment on clause 4? Let the Hon Ministerfor Finance comment. When the HonMinister for Finance comments, I will notcall anybody again. [Laughter]--This isthe last contribution. Hon Haruna Iddrisu, I was going tocomment on -- This is because we have alreadyfinished with the clause.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 3:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, Iappreciate the fact that you have put theQuestion but I am also encouraged by thefact that you know the subject matter oflaw. If you take the headnote of clause 4,and it begins with ‘Independence of theBank'. Mr Speaker, headnotes are a guidelinesto interpretation as you know. If it says,Independence of the Bank, then you cometo sub-section (3), I beg to quote;
“The Bank is accountable to theMinister on the achievement of itsobject and…” Clearly, that contradicts the headnoteof an independent institution. But as Ifollowed the debate during the SecondReading Stage, what I believe clause 4 isabout, is exemption of this Bank from theregulatory and supervisory functions ofthe Bank of Ghana (BoG). So, ideally, the headnote under clause4 should have read; ‘Exemption from theBank of Ghana'. Then, we will even deletesub-section (1) and then exempt it in sub-section (2) and empower the Hon Ministerto exercise the policy oversight. Thatwould have been my thinking.
Dr A. A. Osei 3:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, first, theHon Minister for Employment and LabourRelations is seeking to say that, the issueis the headnote. It is not in the headnoteat all. Mr Speaker, the exemptions from theBoG is not the same as independence. Theindependence as you rightly noted iswhat sub-section (2) is talking about. Mr Speaker, BoG regulates andsupervises deposit taking institutions.EXIM Bank is not a deposit takinginstitution so, we do not need the BoG tosupervise it. The Board will set theinvestment guidelines, that is what is done,that is precisely the issue. Mr Speaker, because they are not takingdeposits, the issue of DKM DiamondMicrofinance will not arise. But they willhave investment guidelines and the HonMinister will help the Board in terms ofpolicy directives. My Hon Colleague wassaying for example that, he prefers thatwe give them some percentage inagriculture.
Mr Speaker, those are policy directivesthat would emanate from the Hon Ministerto the Board so that they will follow butoperational independence, this is why Idisagree when the BoG says they areoperationally independent and the peoplesay the Governor cannot be fired. Mr Speaker, operational independencedoes not mean that they are not part ofthe Government. This is because DKMDiamond Microfinance affects Ghana, isthat not it? So, if one does not do its job,they say they are operationallyindependent. Mr Speaker, so, if these people messup in giving wrong loans, the Presidentcan fire them. Somebody is in charge buthe is the advisor to the President.
Mr Bagbin 3:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, to add to whatthe Hon Dr A. A. Osei has just said, theindependence is in respect of thefunctions that are stated in clause 3. It isin the performance of those functions. The independence does not coveraccountability. People are confusingregulation with accountability, they arenot the same. Regulating the performanceof its functions, that is only the law butwe have to be accountable to the interestof the people we represent and that is whyin terms of monetary, which is BoG andfinance it is the Ministry of Finance, wehave to account. This is because it is a Ghanaian Bankand that is why the Ministry has beenbrought in there. So, there is nothingwrong with it and I disagree with HonHaruna Iddrisu. I think this is right andwe should go by it.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:40 p.m.
HonMembers, one Hon Member said that, aBank is an institution that takes deposits.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 3:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, withyour leave, amendment proposedaccordingly abandoned.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:40 p.m.
Thepeople who want to say that I am wrongare now saying that Mr Djietror is wrong.[Laughter.] They are saying that, theClerks- at- the-Table are wrong.

Hon Bagbin too is sitting at the edgeof his chair and ready to make anothercomment. We would never complete. HonBagbin is ready to respond, he hasassured me that he is taking this one, blow-for-blow and Hon Akoto Osei is alsosupporting him and Hon Afenyo-Markinis on the sidelines. So, please let usproceed. The Hon Member for Suhum ispensively accusing the Clerk-at- the-Tablefor being wrong while it is me, he means.I accept it, if I am wrong, it does notmatter. Let us continue. Clause 5, Hon Haruna Iddrisu?
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 3:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, withyour leave and indulgence, I beg toabandon all the proposed amendment inrespect of clause 5.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:50 p.m.
All right.All amendments in respect of clause 5 arehereby withdrawn. Thank you very much, Hon Iddrisu foryour kind indulgence. Therefore, clause 5has no amendment. I would put theQuestion on clause 5. Clause 5 -- 12 ordered to stand part ofthe Bill. Clause 13 -- Audit Committee.
Mr Avedzi 3:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 13, subclause (1), line 3, after“Chairperson” add “of the Committee”. Mr Speaker, this is just to have a betterrendition to clarify the intention of thatparticular clause. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 13 as amended ordered to standpart of the Bill. Clause 14 -- Functions of the AuditCommittee Mr Haruna Iddrisu -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:50 p.m.
Yes, HonIddrisu?
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 3:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker,rightly so but in respect of clause 14 andwith your leave, “the Functions of theAudit Committee shall include --
But to say “as follows” is not elegantand not drafted well.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:50 p.m.
Thankyou. The draftsperson should take note --“shall” -- compulsory. It “shall includethe following:” But shall include the following meansit can include other things. All right, noproblem. Clauses 14 to 16 ordered to stand partof the Bill. The draftsperson should take intoaccount the concerns raised about thedrafting of clause 14, line 1. Clauses 17 to -- Policy directives. Dr A. A. Osei -- rose --
Dr A. A. Osei 3:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was upbut I did not catch your eye on clause 15.The Hon Minister responsible for Financehas been defined in the Interpretation as“the Minister”. So, why do we say by theMinister responsible for Finance again?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:50 p.m.
Pardon?
Dr A. A. Osei 3:50 p.m.
Everywhere it says “theMinister”, it has been defined to be theMinister responsible for Finance. Andwhen we come --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:50 p.m.
Thedraftsperson should take note of that. TheMinister is already defined as theMinister responsible for Finance. So, thereis no need for ‘Minister responsible forFinance' to be put in again. Thedraftsperson should take note.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 3:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I begto move, clause 17, delete and insert thefollowing:
“The Minister may give directiveson matters of policy and the Boardshall comply.”
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:50 p.m.
This is inline with the rendition in all other laws.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 3:50 p.m.
Not just therendition. This Bank is a game changerfor the transformation agenda of ourcountry and the Minister must be clothedwith enough authority and mandate sothat when he issues policy directives, asto where credit should go at a particularmoment in our country's history, whichparticular industries are deserving ofsupport, he would not have the Boardchallenge the wish of the Minister at thetime. We have had instances where someBoards even think and feel that they arestronger than the policy initiatives of aMinister. So, to strengthen that Mr Speaker, I sosubmit. Thank you.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:50 p.m.
HonAkoto Osei?
Dr A. A. Osei 3:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I supportthe Hon Minister's amendment. I wasgoing to propose it before I saw it. I wasgoing to put a note that if it was not here,I was going to bring it in.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:50 p.m.
I wouldput the Question on the proposedamendment. Mr Bagbin -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:50 p.m.
HonMajority Leader, if you propose anamendment and you refuse to vote, can Ido something about it?
Mr Bagbin 3:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we are talkingabout policy directives being given andthe proposal in the Bill is that it is beinggiven to the Board. Now, when you say:
“… may give directives on mattersof policy and the Board shallcomply.” When that directive is not given to theBoard, how would the Board comply? Thedirectives must be to the Board and thatis why it is couched that way.
“The Minister may give directivesto the Board on matters of policyand the Board shall comply”. That one I agree.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:50 p.m.
Correctit, please.
Mr Bagbin 3:50 p.m.
That is so.
“The Minister may give directivesto the Board on matters of policyand the Board shall comply.” Policy matters are matters ofgovernance.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 3:50 p.m.
Thankyou. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Clause 17 as amended ordered to standpart of the Bill. Clause 18 -- Appointment of ChiefExecutive Officer and Deputy ChiefExecutive Officers. Hon Haruna Iddrisu?
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 4 p.m.
Mr Speaker, may Iseek your indulgence, and with your leaveto say that, looking at clause 18 carefully,we are lumping the appointment of theChief Executive Officer and the DeputyChief Executive Officer together. We are required by law to create theposition, therefore, one would havewished that, we have the appointment ofthe Chief Executive Officer stand alone,and then create the position of the ChiefExecutive Officer, subscribe to him somefunctions he must perform, move furtherto create the position of Deputy ChiefExecutive Officers and ascribe to themwhat functions they should perform asDeputy Chief Executive Officers. With that, in my opinion, the headnoteshould read, ‘Appointment of ExecutiveOfficer', so that consequentially, whereverwe have Deputy Chief Executive Officer,we delete it, and create the position of theDeputy Chief Executives between clauses19 and 20.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4 p.m.
Have welooked at clause 19? Clause 19 talks aboutthe functions of the Chief ExecutiveOfficer.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 4 p.m.
Yes. So, it wouldsit with clause 18 before we come to createthe Deputy Chief Executive Officers'portfolio and ascribe functions to them. Itis a suggestion.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4 p.m.
HonHaruna Iddrisu, in clause 18 (1): “The president shall in accordancewith article 195 of the Constitutionappoint a Chief Executive Officerand two Chief Executive Officers forthe Bank.”
The position has been created. We donot have to say there shall be created theoffice of the Deputy Chief ExecutiveOfficer who shall be appointed by thePresident. Yes, Hon Yieleh Chireh?
Mr Chireh 4 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would advisehim to withdraw his amendment. This isbecause this makes the Bill smaller for allof us. If we keep on creating more clauses,for what effect is it? Importantly, that iswhy they are combined. I do not think weshould separate them again. I oppose itand I beg him to withdraw.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4 p.m.
HonHaruna Iddrisu, would you turn theinvitation by Hon Yieleh Chireh down?
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 4 p.m.
Mr Speaker, afteran explanation, consistency is part of theBusiness of this House. I have seenlegislations where we have said that thereshall be a Chief Executive Officer who shallbe responsible for the day to dayadministration of the institution, ascreating the office of the Chief ExecutiveOfficer.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4 p.m.
That isin clause 19.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 4 p.m.
No! He dismissedme outright, but I have accordinglyabandoned it. [Amendment withdrawn by leave ofthe House.]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4 p.m.
Oh, no!You have not been dismissed outright.You were given a reasoned judgement.Nobody could dismiss you, Hon HarunaIddrisu. You are too powerful to bedismissed.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 4 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it isnot that. We have passed various Bills.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4 p.m.
I agreewith you but I also accept yourwithdrawal. [Laughter.] You made me sad when you said youhave been dismissed. It cannot happen. Ipersonally appreciate your industry andthe way you are assisting for us to pass agood law.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 4 p.m.
Mr Speaker, forinstance, taking clause 18 as you did, youare going straight to the appointingmandate of the President under article 195.But ideally, the office of the ChiefExecutive Officer must be a creation ofstatute. And this is where we are in theprocess of the legislation. That there shallbe a Chief Executive Officer of thisInstitution who shall be responsible forits day to day administration. Then having created it, you now invokethe President's mandate under article 195to appoint that person.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4 p.m.
Thankyou very much for withdrawing it. I willput the Question? Hon Member for Suhum, do you wantto -- Hon Member for Suhum, I have notseen you. I cannot see you today; I mightsee you tomorrow. Clause 18 ordered to stand part of theBill. Clause 19 -- Functions of the ChiefExecutive Officer
Mr Avedzi 4 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 19, subclause (2), paragraph (a),after “Board” add “formulated undersection 6 (1)”. Mr Speaker, we are just referring towhat the Chief Executive Officer could doas one of the functions of those policiesthat are formulated under section 6 (1).The Chief Executive Officer shall performthose functions.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4 p.m.
Yes, HonBagbin?
Mr Bagbin 4 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I oppose thatrendition. I think the rendition as it is inthe Bill is preferable.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4 p.m.
HonBagbin, I did not hear you. Did you sayyou oppose it?
Mr Bagbin 4 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am opposingit. The rendition as contained in the Bill ispreferable because we have also given theMinister the power to give policydirectives. Those policy directives aregoing to the Board, and the Board wouldnow direct the Chief Executive Officer whowould be bound to perform those things. So, it is not only those performed inclause 6 (1). This is because clause 6 (1) isdealing with only the functions of theBoard and not of the Bank. The directivesof the Chief Executive Officer would cometo the Board, and the Board would thenpass them on to him. So, he just need toexecute the policies of the Board. We donot need to say, as formulated by clause 6(1). I thought they were going to put theamendment on clause 19 (3), where itsays:
“(3) The Chief Executive Officer isanswerable to the Board for actsdone and decisions taken.”
What does that mean? Is it acts doneby the Board or by him? No! The ChiefExecutive Officer is answerable to theBoard for the performance of hisfunctions. With that he is responsible.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4 p.m.
I wouldtake one more comment from Hon AkotoOsei and put the Question.
Dr A. A. Osei 4 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would wantto disagree with the Hon Majority Leaderfor the simple fact that, the Minister'sdirectives would be translated by theBoard under clause 6 (f), where it says:
“(f) perform any other function thatis incidental to the achievementof the object of the Bank.” So, if he says it is formulated underclause 6 (1), it covers subclauses (a)through (e) and (f), which would comeunder potential directives given by theMinister so that there is no doubt that itis fully covered. The Minister's directiveswould have to be translated into somepolicy of the Bank under subclause 6 (1)(f). So, it does not lose anything there.The impression he gave was that if theMinister gives policy directives, it wouldnot come under subclause 6 (1). I amsaying that is not true. This is becausesubclause 6 (1) (f) would cover that too.
“(f) … incidental to the achievementof the object of the Bank.” It is one of the functions of the Board,including translating policies given by theMinister into some function. And so howit is formulated under subclause 6 (1) is allright. Then there is no doubt about it. Itwould not exclude what he meant that thedirectives given by the Minister.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4 p.m.
HonYieleh Chireh?
Mr Chireh 4 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I oppose theamendment by the Committee, and rathersupport the Hon Majority Leader'sposition. First of all, once one says that he wouldexecute the policies of the Board,inferentially he is referring to clause 6.This is because that is where thefunctions of the Board, includingformulation of policies are. We do notneed this cross referencing, no! This isbecause then it also supposes thatsubclause 6 (1) is dealing with only theformulation of policies. But there are otherfunctions of the Board. Apart from that, one cannot restrict theexecution of the policy to the Board aloneas he is saying. No! General policies fromgovernment -- Do not let us look at thisbody as a proper corporate institution. This is more or less a Civil Serviceorganisation we are creating. That is whyit is under the Minister and takinginstructions from the Minister. It is like afund, which does not operate like acorporate body. So, we need not toindicate these things as if the Board itselfcould formulate any policies on its own.The functions of the Board are there, so,let us oppose this one and I advise theChairman to withdraw it.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
HonChairman of the Committee?
Mr Avedzi 4:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the amendmentis accordingly withdrawn. [Amendment withdrawn by leave ofthe House.]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
Thankyou. I will put the Question on clause 19. Is it not amended?
Mr Bagbin 4:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is amendedat clause 19 (3). And it reads:
“The Chief Executive Officer isanswerable to the Board for theperformance of his functions”. I proposed it. So, it has been amended.
Mr Bagbin 4:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 19 (3).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
I will putthe Question on your amendment. So,state your amendment so that I could putthe Question on it.
Mr Bagbin 4:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, theamendment reads:
“The Chief Executive Officer isanswerable to the Board for theperformance of his functions”. So, delete “acts done and decisiontaken” and insert --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
But HonMembers, when you are answerable to theBoard, is it not for the performance of yourfunctions?
Mr Bagbin 4:10 p.m.
No! Mr Speaker --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
Couldyou be answerable to the Board forsomething else?
Mr Bagbin 4:10 p.m.
No! Mr Speaker, theystated there: “acts done and decisionstaken.”
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
I agreewith you. It is ambiguous. So, why doyou not want to stop at “Board”.
Mr Bagbin 4:10 p.m.
That is why I am amendingit to delete “acts done and decisionstaken.”
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
I wouldtake your amendment. Question put and amendment agreedto. Dr A. A. Osei -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
Do youhave another amendment?
Dr A. A. Osei 4:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my MajorityLeader is usurping the Chairman'spowers. This is because, he was beingintimidated by the Majority Leader. Hespeaks for the Committee but he is runningaway. Mr Speaker, the Committee insists thatthe Chairman cannot just give in to hisLeader, therefore --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
I agreewith you. On that note, I would put theQuestion on clause 19.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, which oneis it?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
TheChairman has abandoned it.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:10 p.m.
I am saying that thatcannot be.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
I havealready put the Question on that.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:10 p.m.
I am saying that he isnot speaking for the Committee on thismatter.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
I agreewith you.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:10 p.m.
So, he should not saythat he has abandoned it.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
But hehas abandoned it and I have put theQuestion.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:10 p.m.
No! He cannotabandon it. So, I am coming with an amendmentunder Standing Order129 (b).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
HonAkoto Osei, I am surprised that you werefighting tooth and nail about StandingOrder 129 (b) but suddenly -- Now, youare taking refuge -- You have adopted itas your personal mantra. It has becomeyour Bible. I agreed with you but you haveabandoned me now. When you said that it is better weadvertise the amendment, I broughtErskine May and so on. I looked atStanding Order 129 (b) and you evencorrected me that it is not 129 (2) but 129(b); I agreed with you and wecongratulated each other. We werewinking at each other but now you haveabandoned me. You are now proposing amendmentsleft and right. As soon as you rise onyour feet, there is another amendment.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, theargument made by --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
What areyou coming under?
Dr A. A. Osei 4:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, StandingOrder 129 (b).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
That isour special Standing Order.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, let us lookcarefully at the argument by the MajorityLeader. That is where we have an omnibusclause. Clause 1 (f) is omnibus because itsays:
“ (f) perform any other function thatis incidental to the achievement …” [Interruption.] No! I am talking about the one theChairman abandoned and gave in to thepersuasive nice leadership pressure. Thatwas why my Chairman said he hadabandoned it. He ran away too quicklywhen he himself at the Committee wasinsisting on this -- [Interruption.] He is not convinced. I am a Member ofthe Committee and the Chairman said hewas speaking for us but he should not beconvinced. This is because we have theomnibus clause -- It refers to the objectof the Bank, which is so broad that it iscovered. Look at the Object of the Bank.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
Havingheard Hon Akoto Osei --
Mr Bagbin 4:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thought itwas so simple that I did not argue further.But when we say, “execute the policies ofthe Board formulated under section 6 (1)”,it means execute the policies of the Boardformulated by the Board. That is the simplemeaning. Mr Speaker, which other policies wouldthey be executing? Policies formulated bysome other body? So --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
Theirpower to formulate policies is founded onsection 6 (1). I agree with you. So, everypolicy formulated must come undersection 6 (1); so, there is no point tostate section 6 (1).
Mr Bagbin 4:10 p.m.
Yes, but we said apart fromthat, we are giving policy directives to theMinister. And those policy directives donot necessarily mean that they have to beformulated under section 6 (1).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
This isbecause it is not the Board's policydirective.
Mr Bagbin 4:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, they may notbe formulated by the Board but there aredirectives or policies that are coming fromGovernment. That is why I said that letus leave it as “Execute the policies of theBoard”, which is dealing with only theBoard and leave the other one alone. Thatis all; simple.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, but it mustbe part of the Bank. That is my whole point.Look at the object of the Bank. TheMinister would give policy directives inthat regard. So, anytime the Board tries tosatisfy the Minister, it must meet theobjects of the Bank captured under theomnibus clause. It cannot be anythingelse. That is my whole point. They would come with their policiesand the Minister gives a directive andthey would have to meet. But it should beconsistent with the object of the Bank,which is so broad that -- That is why wesay “under clause 6 (1).
Mr Bagbin 4:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we haveclause 3: “Functions of the Bank”. Wealso have clause 6: “Functions of theBoard”. The functions of the Bank arewider than the functions of the Board. So,the formulation of the policies by theBoard is under clause 6 (1). I am saying that the policy directivesthat the Minister would be giving couldcome under clause 3. So they are notnecessarily formulated by the Board. So,we should not restrict it to only the onedone by the Board. That is why I said thatdo not add “formulated under 6(1)”.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:10 p.m.
Please, read 6(1)(f).
Mr Bagbin 4:10 p.m.
I read it.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:10 p.m.
Functions of the Bank.
Mr Bagbin 4:10 p.m.
The operative word is“incidental”. Read it:
“Perform any other function that isincidental to the achievement of theobject of the Bank.” The object is in clause 2. The functionsof the Bank that I am talking about is inclause 3. And he is talking aboutformulation.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:10 p.m.
HonMembers, I am in your able hands. Whois withdrawing his amendment? Thewithdrawal has been done, but it has beenre-introduced under Standing Order129(b). Hon Akoto Osei, do you want to takeyour amendment? Hon Akoto Osei has not proposed anyamendment so I would put the Question. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clauses 19 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clause 20 -- Functions of the DeputyChief Executive Officer
Chairman of the Committee (MrAvedzi) 4:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause20, subclause (1), line 2, delete “underthis Act” and insert “of the Chief ExecutiveOfficer”.
“The Deputy Chief ExecutiveOfficers shall assist the ChiefExecutive Officer in the performanceof functions of the Chief ExecutiveOfficer”. Mr Speaker, it is to make the renditionclearer than what has been captured inthe Bill. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 20 as amended ordered to standpart of the Bill.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:20 p.m.
In spiteof the fact that it has been carried, I woulduse my residual power, if I have any, todirect that the draftspersons should lookat the rendition and see whether it is inconsonance with the drafting style. Clauses 21, 22 and 23?
Mr Alex K. Afenyo-Markin 4:20 p.m.
MrSpeaker, with the greatest respect, underclause 23, it appears that --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:20 p.m.
Let meput the Question on clause 21. Clause 21 ordered to stand part of theBill. Clause 22 ordered to stand part of theBill. Hon Markin, clause 23?
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I comeunder Standing Order 129 (b). Specifically,if you look at clause 23, the Bill anticipatesa situation where other staff may beappointed under article 195 of theConstitution, but in previous legislationsMr Speaker, particularly the Economic andOrganized Crime Act and the Anti-Money
Laundering Act, we have made provisionfor secondment, where staff or officers ofsome public institutions --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:20 p.m.
HonAfenyo-Markin, your suggestion is thatwe should follow that --
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, notnecessarily. I am routing it on a point. Mycontention here is that apart from the factthat other officers may be appointed --Of course, apart from the Chief ExecutiveOfficer and his deputies -- there wouldbe the need for other staff, but Mr Speaker,there may be the need to also secondother officers from some other publicinsti tut ions to perform specif icfunctions --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:20 p.m.
HonAfenyo-Markin, I am not disagreeing withyou. I am saying that the point you aremaking is a reasonable point. Perhaps,you would help everybody if you read therendition while I ask the Hon Minister ifhe has any objection. Do you have those Acts you weretalking about?
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, notimmediately, but I could read --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:20 p.m.
Justnow; we are finishing today.
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I amgoing to do that. I could propose theamendment.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:20 p.m.
WhichAct is that?
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:20 p.m.
Act 749 and Act804.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:20 p.m.
HonMinister and Hon Chairman, do you havean objection to that? Just secondment.
Mr Avedzi 4:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think thatclause 23 covers what he is even tryingto say, because it says; “subject to article195 of the Constitution”, which is actuallythe appointment of the staff of the bank.Subject to that, the Bank shall have otherstaff necessary for the proper andeffective performance of the functions ofthe bank, which covers secondment. So,it is adequately covered.
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, underarticle 195, we are talking aboutappointments. I have article 195 here. Doyou mean 195 (1)? I would like to seekyour guidance. Mr Speaker, article 195 (1) provides --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:20 p.m.
I thinkyou have to seek my leave, crave myindulgence before you read it, else I wouldnot allow you. I would not allow you toread it, not at 4.00 o'clock. The Constitution is on your Monitor,so, everybody should go there and readarticle 195. Hon Member, make your point.
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, article195 makes provision for certainappointments by the President.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:20 p.m.
Article195 (1) is now on your screen.
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:20 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker,I have it.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:20 p.m.
I amsaying it for everybody.
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, whatI am referring to for consideration is thatapart from the appointment under 195 (1),there may be some other public officerswho have already been appointed and
may be performing some other functions,who, by virtue of their expertise may beseconded. Mr Speaker, in the case, it is not thesame. Secondment is different from a freshappointment and in previous legislations,we made provision for the appointmentof other staff and we made provision forsecondment, so, if per this law, weanticipate a situation where apart from theappointment, other officers of some publicinstitutions may be seconded, it isimportant we make provision for same. What we have under clause 23 is notthe same as secondment. I beg tocontend.
Mr Chireh 4:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the man isobjecting to the use --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:20 p.m.
Whichman? There are no men here.
Mr Chireh 4:20 p.m.
My Friend Hon Afenyo-Markins from Winneba Constituency. Iasked him to read the whole of article --[Interruption.] He did not say no. Thesecondment is part of article 195, so, it iscovered.
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, a littlecorrection. Hon Yieleh Chireh addressedme as “Afenyo-Markins from Winneba”.I am Afenyo-Markin from Effutu, not“Afenyo-Markins”. Mr Speaker, just that little correction. Irepresent the people of Effutu, althoughmy father comes from Avenorpedo andTsiame, my mother comes from Effutu;you are my Uncle, Mr Speaker. We are fromthe same clan, so, that disclosure mustbe made for the Hon Member to know. I belong to all sides and on mycertificate, it is “Afenyo-Markin” fromEffutu, with no “s”.
Mr Chireh 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I havewithdrawn the “s”
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, andthe Winneba.
Mr Chireh 4:30 p.m.
Afenyo-Markin.
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:30 p.m.
From Effutu, notWinneba.
Mr Chireh 4:30 p.m.
From Effutu.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
That iswhy I have so much respect for Hon YielehChireh. He does not engage in any -- Ifyou would want him to take out another“m” or “n”, he will take it out for you. HonYieleh Chireh, anything he wants you todo, we will do it for you. But Hon Yieleh,he is from Effutu, not Winneba. He is“Afenyo-Markin” not “Afenyo-Markins”. Hon Majority Leader, I saw that theClerk-at-the-Table was having a tête-à-tête with you. He brought you some law.Can you help us?
Mr Bagbin 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, article 195deals with the authority. In whom doesthe authority reside to appoint publicofficers? It says the President. ThePresident could delegate it. That is allarticle 195 says. This one says:
“Subject to that authority which isin article 195 of the Constitution, theBank shall have other staff that arenecessary for the proper andeffective performance of thefunctions of the Bank.” This means that in trying to get thestaff, have regard to article 195. If theauthority is delegated to anybody orperson in the bank, go ahead to do theappointments, whether it is secondment
or direct appointment. It is all aboutappointment.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
I will putthe Question on Hon Afenyo-Markin fromEffutu's proposed amendment. Hisamendment is that, we should add aprovision which gives the President thepower to second other members of thePublic Service.
Some Hon Members 4:30 p.m.
Aye!
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
HonAfenyo-Markin, you did not say Aye --[Laughter.] Hon Members, I need to deliver anunqualified apology to you. The HonMember himself was not ready to supportthe amendment.
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I havea problem with the rendition.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
All right,propose your rendition. Render ityourself.
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I begto propose that this Honourable Housedo amend clause 23 with a new rendition.
Some Hon Members 4:30 p.m.
What is the newrendition?
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, withall these intimidations --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
HonAfenyo-Markin, there would be aConsideration Stage. You can bring it tothe attention of Mr Speaker.
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, withall these intimidations, I am deleting andinserting.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
No! I willput the Question. Hon Afenyo-Markin, you just said weare from the same clan.
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker,another opportunity would come.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
Youknow I will not act against your interestor anybody's so take a cue from theSpeaker's Chair.
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:30 p.m.
I will take a cuethen.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
I amputting the Question on clause 23 becausethere is no amendment.-- [Laughter.]
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, underthe principle of consistency, this Housemust be consistent with its approach withrespect to legislation. Mr Speaker, at least, I have cited tworecent laws -- [Interruption.] Act 749and Act 804. Act 749 relates to anti-moneylaundering and Act 804 relates to economicand organised crime. Mr Speaker, with the greatest respect,in these two laws, at least, we madeexpress provisions for the appointment ofChief Executive, other staff andsecondment of public officers.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
HonAfenyo-Markin?
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:30 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
I am notdisagreeing with you. I have seen anotherone. While you were speaking, I checkedthe National Health Insurance Act whichalso made provision for secondment.
However, the fact that it is not stateddoes not mean that there cannot besecondment. I agree with your consis-tency argument but it is not illegal.Sometimes, some of our drafting, onsecond thought, are a little superfluous. One of the things that perhaps, Iaddressed my mind to it is that where thereis a successor organisation, sometimes itis said that all staff of the previousorganisation are transferred more or lessautomatically. So, is a matter that I urgeyou to look at. I know you have a lot ofindustry. Look at how it is formulated so thatnext time, you come with your proposedamendment and argument. With this one,you did not garner enough support eventhough you have a point. I agree with you.Do not let it seem as though perhaps youdo not have a point. I looked at section 95of the National Health Insurance Act, andstates:
1. “The President in accordancewith article 195 of the Consti-tution, and on the terms andcondition determined by thePresident appoint other staff ofthe Authority. 2. Other public officers may betransferred or seconded to theAuthority or may otherwise giveassistance to it.”
It is there like you were saying. But if itis not there, it does not mean that otherstaff cannot be seconded. I have put theQuestion already. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 23 ordered to stand part of theBill.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
I do notdisagree with you. Hon Members, we go to clause 24. Clause 24 -- Sources of moneys forthe Bank.
Mr Avedzi 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 24, paragraph (a), line 1, delete“0.56” and insert “90”.
Mr Speaker, the clause says that thedistribution of the levy of 0.75 per cent ondutiable value of import should bedistributed as follows: that 90 per cent ofthat 0.75 per cent shall be paid to the bank.The remaining 10 per cent will take youto -- Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 24 as amended ordered to standpart of the Bill. Clause 25 -- Borrowings by the Bankand guarantee.
Mr Avedzi 4:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 25, subclause (1), line 3, after“Board” add “subject to article 181(1) ofthe 1992 Constitution of the Republic ofGhana.” Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 25 as amended ordered to standpart of the Bill. Clauses 26 and 27 ordered to standpart of the Bill. Clause 28 -- General Reserve Fund.
Mr Avedzi 4:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 28, subclause (2), paragraph (a),line 2, delete “paid-up capital” and insert“stated-capital”. Mr Speaker, the type of capital beingreferred to here is the stated capital,therefore, the Committee is just correctingthat. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 28 as amended ordered to standpart of the Bill. Clause 29 -- Imposition of ImportLevy.
Mr Avedzi 4:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 29, subclause (2), line 2, delete“0.56” and insert “90 per cent” and furtherin line 3, delete “0.19” and insert. “10”. Mr Speaker, this follows the earlier onethat I --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 a.m.
Thankyou. So, in essence, it is almost conse-quential because of the first one. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 a.m.
HonChairman of Committee?
Mr Avedzi 4:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 29, subclause (3), line 1, delete“Customs Division of the”. Mr Speaker, we have already -- Thelevy shall be collected by the GhanaRevenue Authority (GRA) but notCustoms Division of the GRA.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 a.m.
Thankyou. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Avedzi 4:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 29, subclause (4), line 1, delete“Commissioner responsible for the CustomsDivision” and insert “Commissioner-General”.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 a.m.
Thankyou. I will put the Question. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 29 as variously amendedordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 a.m.
Clauses30 to 36 --
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I wasgoing to suggest: I know we are alldesirous of proceeding with what we havebefore us to conclude the Considerationof the Bill. But Mr Speaker, it appears HonMembers are fatigued -- [Interruptions.] All right, if you are not fatigued, I willwithdraw my application.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 a.m.
He cameunder -- No! Hon Member, state the StandingOrder, please. Thank you for it.
Mr Afenyo-Markin 4:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, if HonMembers claim they are not fatigued andthe Hon Minister is here and they say theyare not fatigued, then there is no problem.--[Laughter.]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 a.m.
HonAfenyo-Markin -- Clauses 30 to 36 ordered to stand partof the Bill. Clause 37-- Interpretation.
Mr Avedzi 4:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 37, interpretation of “import”, line2, delete “support” and insert “supports”.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 a.m.
HonChairman of Committee, this is not anamendment that should find its way onthe Order Paper. This is draftsperson'swork. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Avedzi 4:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 37, add the following newinterpretation:
“‘Stated Capital' is the amount ofconsideration that the Bankreceives for the issuance of itsshares”. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 a.m.
Clause37, Hon Chairman of the Committee?
Mr Avedzi 4:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 37, add the following newinterpretation:
“‘Ghanaian-owned firm' is acompany, partnership, or associationor body whether corporate orunincorporated which is wholly-owned by a citizen of Ghana.”
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 a.m.
Hon DrAkoto Osei?
Dr A. A. Osei 4:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I crave theindulgence of the Hon Chairman to amendhis amendment by replacing “wholly”with majority-owned. Mr Chairman, instead of “wholly”, Ipray that you change the word “wholly”to “majority”.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 a.m.
HonAkoto Osei, I just want to draw yourattention to the fact that, when you lookat the Ghana Investment PromotionCouncil (GIPC) Act, we have moved from‘majority' to ‘wholly'. It seems to be apolicy decision. When you look at the 1994 Act, youwould realise that the word “Ghanaian”was defined as “majority”. In the 2013 Act,“Ghanaian enterprise”was defined aswholly-owned. So, we seem to havemoved, as a nation from describingGhanaian enterprises or Ghanaian ownedas from majority-owned Ghanaian to‘wholly-owned'. I thought it was in that light that thisis following the lead GIPC Act.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:40 a.m.
I had some discussionsand I am clear in my mind that the intentionwas not “wholly” but “majority”. Givenwhat we are trying to do, if you say“wholly”, you may not find companiesthat are Ghanaian to benefit.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 a.m.
HonChairman of the Committee, do you havea problem?
Mr Avedzi 4:40 a.m.
I think I will agree with theHon Ranking Member to make it“majority”.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 a.m.
I will putthe Question on the amendment proposedby the Hon Chairman and further amendedby the Hon Ranking Member. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Clause 37 as variously amended,ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 a.m.
HonChairman of the Committee, this yourdefinition of “stated capital”, I did not wantto comment but I would have not put there“stated capital”. This is because “statedcapital” has a definition in the CompaniesAct. It means something. I would have put there, “capital of thebank”. When you say stated capital toany accountant or any lawyer or anyprofessional who is into company law, hismind immediately goes to the CompaniesAct. I would have suggested to you if I hadthe opportunity, to say “capital of thebank” instead of the “stated capital”.“Capital of the bank” is the amount thebank receives for the issuance of shares.But we have already done it so, my handsare tied. Clause 38 ordered to stand part of theBill. Clause 39 -- Transitional provisions
Mr Avedzi 4:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 39, subclause (1), line 3, after“Industrial” insert “Development”. To complete the name of that particularAct. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Clause39, Hon Chairman of the Committee?
Mr Avedzi 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 39, subclause (3), line 2, delete
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Do wehave a Schedule? No! We do not have aSchedule. So, we go to the Long Title. Long Title ordered to stand part of theBill.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
HonMembers, this brings us to the end of theConsideration Stage of the Ghana Export-Import Bank Bill, 2015. Hon Members, at this stage, the Housestands adjourned till tomorrow at 10.00o'clock in the forenoon. Hon Members, thank you very muchfor your patience and kind indulgence.
ADJOURNMENT 4:50 p.m.