Debates of 1 Apr 2019

MR SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:27 a.m.
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:27 a.m.
Mr Speaker 10:27 a.m.
Hon Members, corrections of Votes and Proceedings of Friday, 29th March, 2019.
Hon Members, any correction?
Mr Speaker 10:27 a.m.
Hon Members, there is no Official Report this morning, so we shall move on to Statements. [Pause.]
Hon Members, we have a Statement on the use of mobile phones, socialisation and its impact on relationships by Hon Ebenezer Kojo Kum, Member of Parliament for Ahanta West.
Yes Hon Member, your Statement?
STATEMENTS 10:27 a.m.
Mr Ebenezer K. Kum (NPP -- Ahanta West) 10:27 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to make this Statement on a rather interesting, but difficult issue which has become part of our very existence as Ghanaians.
Mr Speaker, there is no doubt that in this day and age, as a country, we cannot do without mobile phones. It needs no gainsaying that in this present age, the use of mobile phones has really come to stay. In fact, the enormous benefits of the phone cannot be underestimated.
Mr Speaker, available statistics indicate that one in every household of an average of four people has unfettered access to mobile phones. On a daily basis, the number of recharge cards that are purchased contributes significantly to the national purse.
The number of calls made per day on the various networks are many. A greater number of telephone users also use a bit of data to send WhatsApp, Twitter, Instagram and other messages among themselves.
Mr Speaker, one out of every ten persons, on a daily basis, receives at least seven WhatsApp messages. These messages are sometimes forwarded to other platforms and we cannot but fail to admit that if you
unfortunately belong to more than one platform which your “benefactor” also belongs to, you are likely to be inundated with the same message on all such platforms.
Mr Speaker, there is this story told of a young girl whose teacher asked her what she wanted to be in the future. To her utter dismay, the school girl said she wanted to be a mobile phone. When pressured to say why, her response was very simple,
“That is the only way I can get the attention I desire from my parents. They have sufficient time to spend talking on phone, carry it with them to work, to the washroom, on their journey and make sure they always have sufficient credit to make calls or enough data to browse. They also do not forget to charge their phones, yet whenever I deserve or require their attention, they do not have time for me.”
This example may sound weird, but Mr Speaker, the little girl may not be alone. She may have other friends and school mates who are going through similar experiences in their homes.
Mr Speaker, the post on the Facebook wall of one of my friends makes interesting reading:
“Your cell phone has already replaced your watch, camera, calendar, calculator and alarm clock. Please do not let it replace your friends and family”.
Mr Speaker, it is now very common to sit in a bus, trotro, taxi, train (if it is available) and see people busily using their mobile phones. The usual courtesies that we used to exchange as Ghanaians are gradually fading. If one is fortunate enough, you get a “hi” or a “good morning” and that is the end of the conversation.
Mr Speaker, at Conferences, Meetings and Seminars, attendees are mostly glued to their mobile phones either texting or sending a WhatsApp message or reading what has been sent to them.
Mr Speaker, what is worrisome is the way the use of mobile phone has affected our social relationship as a family unit. These days, it is very common to visit a restaurant, bar or club with your friends, family or colleagues. As you sit down waiting for the food or drinks, it is usual to see the couple, family, friends or group eagerly glued to their mobile phones, either receiving calls or chatting. Sometimes throughout the process, apart from choosing the menu that the people may do together, the rest of the outing time is devoted to the use of the mobile phone.
Siblings who sleep in the same room are also likely to spend more time on mobile phones than engaging in any form of conversation.
Mr Speaker, while acknowledging the enormous benefits of the use of
Mr Speaker 10:27 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon member, for this important Statement.
Mr Richard Acheampong (NDC -- Bia West) 10:27 a.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to the Statement made by my Friend.
Mr Speaker, this is very timely. We need to have a very good conver- sation about the use of mobile phones. Technology has come to stay and it has a very positive side. I remember that in those days, even if one wanted to make a call, he had to travel to a different location.
Sometimes he had to spend about three to five days to make a call, especially, if it is an international call. The caller would call and they would send an errand boy to come to the village to inform the receiver that his mother wants to talk to him. He then travels from the village to the city
centre and to wait; especially, during weekends before the caller would call.
There was usually a queue. Sometimes one had to wait for a long time and the caller would not place the call, especially the foreign calls. Sometimes one had to spend about a week in the city before somebody would call from the United States of America (USA) to listen to whatever the person would want to say.
A simple message could take a whole week or a month. But with the advent of mobile phones or cell phones, communication has become very easy. A simple information that one would travel, say, from the south to the north, within a second could be passed on to the person so that certain decisions could be taken. Especially, when there are crises or we want to discuss certain issues. So we need to embrace it.
However, Mr Speaker, it comes with negativity. The youth of today are concentrating on the negative aspects of mobile phones. Sometimes, even with the security services --
Just last week, we were told that there were about thousand and over prank calls. They would call the police or the fire service. They answer the call and they ask, “Have you eaten?” The person responding to the call thought there was an emergency to respond to but people were playing with 191 and 1355. So even when there are emergency cases, they may assume that it is another prank so they may not respond to it.
Mr Speaker, just two weeks ago, somebody called me and introduced himself that he is disabled and he wants me to support him. I then called my coordinator at the same location; I mentioned the name and he said they do not know such a person from that community.
Till date, the person has not called back. Why should one put up such a call trying to deceive an Hon Member of Parliament?
Mr Speaker, those days, if one wanted to make a remittance, he had to go to the bank or do another means of transfer. Today, we can sit at the comfort of our office and transmit money to about thousand people on the cell phone.
The bad side of it is that now, someone can call and say that he has registered with mobile money so I should just put in the money, whether I have it or not.[Laughter.] Those days, one could give an excuse that maybe, he is not in town or not closer to a bank. But today, he cannot have any excuse because the person would first say that he has registered with mobile money so the money should be deposited in his mobile money wallet. What do we do? So we are overspending.
Sometimes we want to escape it. Mr Speaker, it is positive in another sense but it is adding another burden on some of us.
Mr Speaker, the Hon member who made the Statement made a very good and interesting point. Yesterday, I was in church when the Holy Spirit descended upon the man of God to deliver the message, two people around me were busy on their phones.
So I asked myself whether they have come there to listen to the Word of God or to do other things. I decided to just have a look at what the person was doing and he was on Facebook chatting and the man of God was busily preaching the gospel.
Mr Speaker, as my Hon Brother said, if one goes to the restaurant, you would see that everybody is glued to his phone. Sometimes while driving, pedestrians are seen crossing the road and answering calls at the same time without taking care of their lives.
We need to have a balance of it. It comes with positives and negatives. Let us discuss the negatives of it and concentrate on the positives because we can use the phone to do many things.
For instance, our Caucus or other Caucuses belong to groups and messages are put on the group platforms where we have discussions, we come to the House and move on.
Mr Speaker, with the youth today, if you do not buy an iPhone for somebody, it becomes a challenge. This is because there is internet on the phone. What are we using the internet for?
Mr Speaker, today, we can mention something and one can go to
Mr Speaker 10:27 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Member. Those who

Yes, Hon Member?
Mr Yaw F. Addo (NPP -- Manso Adubia) 10:47 a.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to add my voice to the Statement ably made by Hon Kojo Kum.
Mr Speaker, the world has gone through serious revolutions. We have had the agricultural revolution, the industrial revolution et cetera. Now, we are in the age of technological revolution and therefore Ghana cannot be left out of this revolution. The world has become a global village so whatever advantages that we need to take from this revolution are in order.
Mr Speaker, unfortunately, I am going to look at some negatives of this revolution, especially with the mobile telephony industry. As the Hon Member who made the Statement stated, this revolution is rather destroying the family bonding and cohesion that we used to have.
In those days, the family would gather and chat, discuss the family roots, the dos and don'ts and all that and they were good lessons for the children coming up. We sat with uncles, nephews and other siblings to discuss social and economic issues.
These days, we do not see anything like that; we go to a restaurant and see a family has come to have a meal and every member of the family is holding a mobile phone. It is so serious that the father would have to prompt
them that they were there to eat and not to work with their phones.

What this tells us is that they like to have friends outside than even family members.

Mr Speaker, one other serious issue that we would need to deal with as a country is the use of mobile telephony for pornography and other things. Some of these children use the mobile phones for all the bad reasons.

Instead of using it to study, do research or read books that people have put on some websites, they would rather go there to watch pornographic materials. Parents are in difficult situations right now.

Mr Speaker, the third one is that I went to a school and a mathematics teacher was complaining bitterly that what the students use the mobile phones for these days is that questions are sent to them through the mobile phones and even at the examination halls, they are able to hide the mobile phones and use them because some questions are already answered on the mobile phones for them, and this is something we should not gloss over, because it is a very serious issue.

Mr Speaker, if all these social ills are brought about by the technology, then we may perhaps have to look at how we could as a country, curb some

of these issues from degenerating. Whether we like it or not, it is a revolution that has come to stay, and we would have to live with it.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you for the opportunity.
Mr Speaker 10:47 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Member, for your contribution.
Mr Shaibu Mahama (NDC -- Daboya/Mankarigu) 10:47 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am most grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the Statement ably made by my Hon learned Friend.
Mr Speaker, this Statement could not have been made at a better time than this. A time that mobile telephony and the activities of mobile phones have either brought positives or negatives. Indeed, I would wish to say that we stress the positives, but we cannot do positives without talking a bit about the negatives.
Mr Speaker, I am sure that during your days, people got wives and husbands at the bus stops, at the train stations and many other gatherings, simply because they did not have this miniature things to work with.
Mr Speaker, today, if one gets to the airport, social communication between men and women, boys and girls and the rest is actually on mobile phones and not a direct communication. If one gets
Mr Speaker 10:47 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Member, for your kind and good contribution.
Mr Samuel Ayeh-Paye (NPP -- Ayensuano) 10:47 a.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, I would want to take this opportunity to thank the Hon Member who made the Statement. It is a very well researched presentation that also draws the attention of Members of Parliament and the whole country to the usage of mobile phones.
Mr Speaker, we can count so many advantages of the usage of mobile phones. I quite remember when we were young at the village, when somebody died in the family or when there was an emergency, family members gathered and sent the information across the country.
Mr Speaker, looking at the benefits of mobile phones or mobile telephoning on the transport system and in the control of traffic, one may admit that if not because of mobile
phones which makes everybody move around and send information across all the time, we may not have known how transport or traffic would be controlled across the country and globally. So it is important, and it is true that mobile phones have brought a lot of benefits to the modernisation of this country.
Mr Speaker, there is one important aspect that we would all need to look at. Looking at the high rate of accidents on our roads and looking at the usage of mobile phones by drivers, it has gone beyond just talking on the phone to texting while driving.
This can take the concentration of the driver from the driving and he may run into other vehicles, or go off from his lane. So it is important that we look at it as a Parliament and as a country. The National Road Safety Commission, which very soon would convert into an Authority, must look at how we can enforce or help to enforce the regulation on the usage of mobile phones while driving.
Mr Speaker, in the recent accident that happened in Kintampo, both drivers died, so we may not be able to know exactly what happened, but looking at my experience as a road safety officer, it is either one of the drivers was sleeping and then ran off his lane to the other, or he might have been communicating on his mobile phone and lost his track.
At Kintampo, at the stretch where the accident happened, the road is so straight that if one overtakes, one may
Mr Samuel Ayeh-Paye (NPP -- Ayensuano) 10:57 a.m.
definitely see not less than 100 metres ahead of him.
I listened to the Police officer who was at the scene, and he said that he could stand there and see 400 metres ahead of him. Therefore, what happened such that the other driver was able to veer off his lane to the other lane? It could happen that one of them was seriously concentrating on his mobile phone.
This Parliament has already passed a law that prevents the usage of mobile phones while driving, but the issue has to do with the enforcement.

Mr Speaker, I would want to take this opportunity to appeal to the Ghana Police Service and the Motor Traffic and Transport Department (MTTD) to help enforce this law.

If we want to reduce the rate of accidents, there is also the need for us to look at the usage of mobile phones while driving, especially on high speed roads like trunk roads. Mr Speaker, I just want to repeat that some of the drivers text while they drive.

You would see them driving and at the same time communicating through WhatsApp and other social media networks which is very dangerous. I am of the view that we can reduce road accidents if we control the usage of mobile phones while we drive.

The Hon Member from the other Side who contributed made mention of grammatical errors in writings. Mr Speaker, the mobile phone can be used to help in spellings, but today, there is what is called “social media spellings” in which there is a different way of spelling “thank”. This goes beyond the mobile phones; it goes to the examination room.

The West African Examination Council (WAEC) came out with the examiner's report. They reported that in the English Language paper, some of the students spelt words in their compositions the same way as on WhatsApp and other social media and it affects this country.

It is therefore important that the Ministry of Education, the Ghana Education Service (GES) and also WAEC come together to see how best they can help prevent this from happening. If care is not taken, a time will come that the way we spell some of our words in English would also be affected and it would be accepted.

Mr Speaker, one issue affected by the use of mobile phones is socialisation. We know as Ghanaians as we are, when we meet people at bus stops, train stations or churches, we do have discussions. We ask questions such as “How are you?, “Where do you come from?”, “What is your name?”, “Where do you work?” We then end by socialising to know each other.

Today, as soon as you see five or six people sitting at a place, what do you see? Everybody concentrates on

his mobile phone and there is no discussion among the people.

Mr Speaker, it is not in Ghana alone. I travelled to Cape Verde last week. On my return on transit in Portugal, at the airport, of the 10 or 20 people that were waiting at the gate, I saw everybody, including myself, pay serious attention on our mobile phones without even talking to each other and asking “What is happening?” “Where are you going?” “Is there any delay?” “When are we going to have our flight?” Everybody's attention was on the mobile phone.

If care is not taken, a time will come that we would be so individualistic that people would not communicate among themselves and know what is happening. It is important we go back and look at how to fuse the usage of mobile phones to our cultural practices so that when a person meets another and says, “Good morning. Where do you come from?” And then we start to know each other.
Mr Rockson-Nelson E. K. Dafeamekpor (NDC -- South Dayi) 10:57 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to make a few comments on this very important Statement.
Mr Speaker, the importance of the use of mobile phones cannot be overemphasised. Indeed, we have approved Agreements in this House
for the implementation of very important projects in this country which success relies on the use of mobile phones. I can recall recently that we approved the drones that would be used in the delivery of quality health service, and we said that for a nurse to, for instance, make a requisition, he or she is supposed to make use of a mobile phone. It is very important.
In the reforms that we have introduced in our justice delivery system, for instance, we are making use of the mobile phones.
Mr Speaker, as you may be aware, we are now going electronic filing. So, I can sit here in the Chamber and file processes in court. I would have to rely on mobile phones.
Mr Speaker, as you are also aware, mobile phones have become very important tools of gathering evidence for the effective adjudication of cases.
The concern of the Hon Member who made the Statement is the dis- benefit of the use of mobile phones that appears to occasion us as a people. Even in this Chamber, Mr Speaker, sometimes our attention and focus as Hon Members of Parliament are sometimes taken away by the use of mobile phones.
It is a matter of concern that -- and you would see this particularly at night when you are on the road as the Hon Chairman for the Roads and Transport Committee said. At night, when you are in traffic driving home, you would see drivers behind steering wheels looking on their mobile
Mr Abraham D. Odoom (NPP -- Twifo Atti Morkwa) 10:57 a.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity. Like
the Hon Members who spoke earlier, I would like to congratulate the Hon Member who made the Statement.
Mr Speaker, I would like to look at the health hazards and the burden that mobile phones have brought to society. Recently, there was a television programme that was organised by a professor in physics or so from the University of Cape Coast (UCC) that alluded to the fact that the usage of mobile phones affects our health in the area of radiation technology and how it affects the human body.
At this time that such an important Statement about the use of mobile phones has been made, it is very important that we also engage in the discussion of what the real negative health hazards are.
Therefore, like Hon Members who spoke previously said, I would wish that you would direct that a comprehensive research be made into that area so that as a nation, we would know exactly the kind of health hazards that the usage of mobile phones brings into our communities.
Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity.
Alhaji Mohammed-Mubarak Muntaka (NDC -- Asawase) 11:07 a.m.
Mr Speaker, let me start by thanking the Hon Member who made the Statement.
This is a very important Statement which on the surface, we could simply pass and laugh at, but it is very serious and as a country, we need to take the necessary steps to deal with it before it gets completely out of hand.
Mr Speaker, I would want to associate myself with most of the comments made by my Hon Colleagues who spoke earlier as regards the effects of mobile phones on education and the social connection that we have.
I would concentrate my con- tribution on the impact of mobile phones on the youth with reference to a research done by a very renowned research group in the United States of America (USA) called the Pew Research Center.
According to the research, there are seven key things that affect the youth in terms of mobile phone usage. The first one is what they term Teenage Texting Tendonitis (TTT). It creates pain in the hand, back and neck because of the posture and in the long run, it causes arthritis.
These are very serious ailments, especially in old age. The research says it starts when the youth concentrate too much on phones. They have pain in their hands, back and neck, develop impaired vision and arthritis in the long run.
The second effect has to do more with stress. Texting and talking on phone can create a lot of stress on
the youth, because of constant talking and expectation of feedback. This builds up stress in the youth and that can be very devastating to their development.
Mr Speaker, another effect according to the research is lost of sleep. This is very true for those of us who have teenage children. They place their phones close to their pillows, so that they can easily respond to calls and texts. The research says that this creates a lot of sleep loss in children.
Doctors like Dr Twum Nuamah and others who are in the Chamber would tell us the effects of sleep loss on even the adult body, let alone the youth who are learning, yet, losing a lot of sleep simply because their phones are close to them and they text, respond to texts, make and receive calls.
Mr Speaker, the research says that in the case of teenagers, it can create more accidents. The likelihood of a teenager walking, driving or riding while responding to texts is very high, such that they might be crossing the road without necessarily making sure that there is no oncoming vehicle or bicycle. Therefore the tendency for accidents among the youth who are very addicted to phones is very high.
Mr Speaker, the research also says that it leads to increase in anxiety. When one texts or makes calls and the person on the other side receives and responds to the text, one is happy. In the case of the youth, when they send a text and a response is not forthcoming, they become anxious and it creates anxiety in them.
Alhaji Mohammed-Mubarak Muntaka (NDC -- Asawase) 11:17 a.m.
There is also the risk of cancer which is very serious because of how phone calls connect to each other through electromagnetic radiation. If one holds a phone for a long period, their body tissues begin to absorb it into their bodies.
The reason it affects the youth is because at their age, they are now developing tissues and muscles. Therefore if they hold phones for longer hours, their body tissues begin to absorb radiation which can cause cancer in the long run. It can sometimes even lead to brain damage in the youth.
Mr Speaker, the seventh and final effect raised by the research is cyber bullying. It is not very common in our part of the world but in Europe and America, it is very common and a research group called “Fight Crime: Invest in Kids” says that almost one- third of teenagers are affected by cyber bullying.
Mr Speaker, having made reference to Pew Research Center's research, I believe that steps should be taken by us as individuals and we should start from our homes.
Let me start from my home where my wife and I resolved after several quarrels and fights that our children would not own mobile phones until they finished senior high school. It is not easy but we are still implementing it.
I have a child who is in senior high school. He cannot understand why
even children in junior high school have phones, yet he in senior high school does not have one. However, my wife and I have resolved and have taken a decision as a family; therefore he must adhere to it.
Mr Speaker, to some extent, it helps my son to concentrate on his studies. Through that, the older one who is at the Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Techno- logy (KNUST) is doing very well, although now he has a phone. I would now want to believe that the addiction is not as great as before.
We did this because we realised after we woke the younger ones aged 5 and 10 up early in the morning to go to school around 5.30 a. m., they still wanted to run to the tablet to do one or two things.
The younger one who is five years could say that she wants to watch for just five minutes and then go and bath. So we then resolved that this was what we would do.
Mr Speaker, I believe that all of us must take interest because the society starts from the family. All of us could resolve to monitor carefully what our children do, so that it does not appear that buying those gadgets for them is a sign of showing them love.
We have internet in the house and on weekends, they can watch it onscreen. We have Netflix, children's channels, among others, that they can watch while we are also at home and can watch with them.
However, to give them phones for them to hide and fidget with it is something we have tried to restrict. Even when it comes to us, by 7.30 p.m. we put our phones away and then communicate as a family.
Mr Speaker, it came to a time that one would be talking and the other would be browsing and not hear just because they are so immersed in their phones. This creates all manner of problems. So, my advice is that although it has its positives and its usefulness --
In our senior high schools, I support the Ghana Education Service's (GES) continued restriction of mobile phone usage because if we do not do that, we risk having astronomical challenges as a result of this technology.
Mr Speaker, lastly, let us be careful about the heavy use of technology in our part of the world. The reason I say in our part of the world, Africa, is that it is one of the greatest causes of unemployment now around the world.
We have all travelled before and when we went to supermarkets in Europe and America some times back, just like it is done here today, we would have to pick up our items and then go to an attendant to pay.
Today, in most parts of Europe and America, you would collect the items, then go to a computer to pay and it would give you change. Persons who are supposed to be engaged are no
longer engaged. I saw one in Israel where the loading and offloading are done by robots. You would go to a very big company and you would think that it is a ghost town because there are very few people and almost everything is done by technology.
Mr Speaker, because we do not generate them in our part of the world, our overreliance on it would rather increase the unemployment in our part of the world. So let us be very careful. Some are very useful and must be used, but if we are not careful, the excessive use of technology would create an unrest we would not be able to sustain.
In Japan, most parts of Europe and some parts of America, the aging population is so high that they do not have even the manpower in the youth to carry out those tasks. That is why they introduced technology to beef up their challenge. If you look at the population pyramid in Ghana, the base is big because we have a lot of youth. So in using technology, especially in our part of the world, we should be very selective in using technology, so that we do not heavily use it at the detriment of our social cohesion, our youth getting employment and the future of our children would not be destroyed.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I would once again commend the Hon Member who made the Statement and also thank you for
Mr Speaker 11:17 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Minority Chief Whip.
Majority Leadership?
Mr Matthew Nyindam (NPP -- Kpandai) 11:17 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the Statement which was ably made by the Hon Member for Ahanta West.
Mr Speaker, it is an undeniable fact that mobile phones have added values to our lives as we make good use of them. Listening carefully to my Hon Colleagues who have tried to identify the positive impacts of the use of mobile phones in our lives, we are also much concerned about the negative impact as well.
Mr Speaker, gradually, even we the adults teach our children to become dishonest in our homes. A person gets a call and because he or she does not want to have the visitor in his or her home, he or she tells the caller that he or she is not in the house in the presence of the children. A person gets a call and tells his or her child to tell the caller he or she is not at home.
Mr Speaker, gradually, we are teaching our children to become dishonest. One has a meeting with his or her colleague, calls the person on his or her mobile phone and the person says he or she is almost at the destination, but could be far away. These are not good things we must do as adults.
Mr Speaker, another issue I would want to talk about is the increase in social vices. Mobile phones have aided the youth of today in vices and that is why social vices are on the increase.
In those days, it was difficult for a person to visit a young girl in her father's house, and also very difficult to approach a young girl but these days, it is not difficult at all because one has to just get the girl's mobile number and call her. That is why we must strictly help the Ghana Education Service (GES) to ban the use of mobile phones in the senior high and junior high schools.
Today, every student in the secondary school uses a mobile phone. It is a fact, and we must all help GES to ban the use of it. Those who make the call that we are in an era of technology and that everybody is entitled to use a mobile phone -- the youth of today use the mobile phones negatively and we must help GES to ban them.
I have heard a lot of people who have condemned GES that mobile phone is technology so the students should be allowed to use them. This does not help.
Mr Speaker, as one of the Hon Members said, today, GES and examiners say that the English Language students write these days is social media English Language.
These students write this same social media English during exami- nations just like they do on their
mobile phones -- and we end up saying the standard of education has fallen; these are contributary factors.
Mr Speaker, we are all becoming “individuals'' in our homes. One goes home and he or she is interested in his or her mobile phone; the spouse is also interested in his or her mobile phone and the children are also interested in their mobile phones, so at the end of the day, everybody concentrates on his or her mobile phone.
If we do not, as a matter of fact, find some solutions to the way we use our mobile phones in our homes, we would all become “individuals'' -- and we should all work at it.
Mr Speaker, the last but not least issue has to do with time wasting. A person could be on the mobile phone for more than an hour. As to what the person is talking about, one cannot tell. I do not know the kind of business transaction a person would be able to achieve for being on his or her mobile phone for two hours. It affects productivity.
A person sits in his or her office and makes a call for an hour. What at all do we talk about? [Interruption.] We may look at it on a lighter note, but I agree that mobile phone has become a medium of communication which has assisted us, but we need to limit its use.
Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you for the opportunity.
Mr Speaker 11:17 a.m.
Hon Members, the Statement is referred to the Committee on Communications to consider the mobile phone's and driving, the mobile phone in schools, the mobile phone's effect on productivity at public work places and other negative usage and report. [Pause.]
Hon Deputy Majority Whip, do we have the other Statement?
Mr Nyindam 11:27 a.m.
Very well, Mr Speaker. It would be read by the Hon Member for Manso-Adubia on behalf of Hon Darfour.

Francophonie Week

(Semaine de la Francophonie)
Mr Yaw F. Addo (NPP — Manso-Adubia) (on behalf of Mr Eric K. Darfour 11:27 a.m.
Mr Speaker, this week marks the celebration of La Francophonie.
Like every year, this year's Francophonie week provides the opportunity for member-states around the world to celebrate the French language and culture in all its diversity. It is a festival celebrated in the middle of March every year.
The Organisation Internationale de la Francophonie (OIF), that is International Organisation of the Francophonie in English language
Mr Speaker 11:27 a.m.
Hon Member, we would take one contribution from each Side.
Mr Samuel O. Ablakwa (NDC — North Tongu) 11:37 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am most grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this Statement which has been very well delivered.
Mr Speaker, La Francophonie, which is also known as the Organisation Internationale de la Francophonie (OIF) is a global organisation of some 88 States, of which 27 have observer status.
Ghana was granted observer status to La Francophonie in 2016, and just last year, our current President, H. E. Nana Addo Dankwa Akufo-Addo, pushed for full membership and it was granted. Ghana was then admitted into full membership of La Francophonie.
Mr Speaker, the significance of this bloc in international relations cannot be downplayed. As the Hon Member
who made the Statement said, Ghana finds itself in a very unique situation, where we are an Anglophone nation surrounded by Francophone neighbours: Benin, Togo, Ivory Coast and Burkina Faso.
So it goes without saying that the French language is a very important one, especially if we are to achieve the objectives of regional integration. If the dreams of our founding fathers to have a united Africa, beginning from the regional blocs, and for that matter, ECOWAS, is to be achieved, then language, which remains a barrier, has to be looked into.
Mr Speaker, that is why it is worth highlighting that a few weeks ago, at a La Francophonie event, our Foreign Minister, Hon Shirley Ayorkor Botchwey (Hon Minister for Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration) indicated that her Ministry is submitting proposals to the Ministry of Education to make French the second official language in Ghana.
Mr Speaker, that proposal is worth looking into, and I believe that it is a very useful suggestion but I would go beyond just focusing on French, and say that we should encourage multilingualism.
I have made a Statement on the Floor of this House before, urging our young students to embrace multilingualism. It is one of the reasons Ghanaians normally lose out when it comes to international positions in reputable global organisations.
Mr Speaker, French language is the sixth most spoken language in the world. The first is Mandarin, where we have over a billion people in this world who speak it. The English language comes second, followed by Hindi, Spanish, and Arabic in terms of the number of people who speak these international languages.
Mr Speaker, so we should encourage multilingualism; not only French language but also other international languages. I am glad that our universities, especially the University of Ghana, Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology (KNUST), University of Cape Coast (UCC) are taking a very open and broad view of international languages.

We know the support the Confucius Centre is extending to our universities to teach Mandarin and promote it in our higher institutions of learning. We need to encourage that.

Mr Speaker, as we talk about international languages, let us not forget that the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) declared this year as the year of the mother tongue because as we promote international languages, experts say that mother tongue is also being affected.

The younger generation is losing out. We meet many Ghanaians these days who cannot speak local

languages and some parents think that it is something to be applauded. O me ba yi dee, nnka Twi o! To wit, “My child does not speak Twi”; my child speaks no vernacular; no Ewe, Guan, Ga or Hausa.

We must encourage multilingualism and adopt policies that would promote the study of the mother tongue.

Mr Speaker, away from the language aspect of this Statement, our full membership of La Francophonie would deepen our bond with our brothers and sisters, which is historic. We need to bear in mind that because of the Berlin Conference that led to the division of Africa among colonial blocs, we now have a situation where as one people, and as Africans, because of this artificial demarcations, we have some who belong to the Francophone and Anglophone blocs and others who belong to the Spanish blocs.

Mr Speaker, if we resolve that our foreign policy approach would be to boldly assume membership of all of these organisations and bring down the artificial barriers of division, it would lead to greater understanding amongst our people.

It would also lead to the removal of prejudices, so that we would see one another as one people and it would go a long way to deepen peace and stability in the region and in the world.

Mr Speaker, it would also advance trade because we all know that Africans do not trade among
Dr Bernard O. Boye (NPP-- Ledzokuku) 11:37 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am most grateful for the opportunity to add my voice to the need to make the French language very relevant in this country.
I am very glad that Ghana has been welcomed into the La Francophonie. [Interruption] -- I want to be very calm in mentioning the word because I realised that my Hon Brother, on some occasions, had to be tactful about mentioning the word.
Mr Speaker, language is very powerful and it is very unfortunate that some years ago, in creating barriers, we happen to be caught up in this small world where we speak the English language but have been surrounded by countries that speak French.
Mr Speaker, Hon Samuel Okudzeto Ablakwa has mentioned some of the trade benefits or
opportunities so I would not belabour the point.
But just to mention that La Cote d'Ivoire has a population of 24.2 million people. If one is doing business in Ghana and speaks very fluent French, he or she should just remember that his or her market is not a size of 30 million but about 50 million when we add the population of La Cote d'Ivoire.
Mr Speaker, like what Hon Ablakwa said, when we take the whole Francophone world in this continent of ours, they are about 300 million people. This is huge so there are many opportunities.
Mr Speaker, recently, we had a situation in this country where nurses complete school and they would have to sit at home for some years before they get absorbed. It would interest you to know that in many of these francophone countries, they need nurses.
In fact, Ghana has started a programme where, in some nursing schools now, they are aggressively teaching very active French to get nurses to be able to speak and write French, so that they can have opportunities in Togo, La Cote d'Ivoire and some francophone countries.
Mr Speaker, the opportunities are there. I have seen doctors who have sat in the house for two to three years because they could only speak English. Out there in the Francophone
world, they need doctors but our doctors cannot go there.
Mr Speaker, language could open a lot of doors, solve most of our challenges that we have in this country and that is the reason we have to find very innovative ways to make the language more relevant and usable in this country.
Mr Speaker, I learnt French at the Junior Secondary School (JSS) level but almost all that I learnt is gone. It is not surprising because it is not how aggressive one learns a language that makes one knowledgeable in it but how frequent one uses it.
In this country, there are few places, if not non-existent at all, where one has the opportunity to be compelled to apply one's French language. So, we should not only be interested in teaching the language up to the JHS level and leave all Ghanaians to their fate to find a way of applying the language.
I know beyond Ghana Education Service (GES), the French Embassy has also made lots of efforts to get Ghanaians to use and apply the French language.
Mr Speaker, I am totally convinced that the fluency of the current President of this country, H.E. Nana Addo Dankwa Akufo-Addo, in the French language played a role in the fraternity of French countries gladly welcoming us into their community. That tells us the extent to which our neighbours are willing to go if we spoke their language.
Dr Bernard O. Boye (NPP-- Ledzokuku) 11:47 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I also know that we have made lots of efforts to make French very relevant in this country but until we start very pragmatic programmes to make the French language popular, usable and relevant in this country, most of these programmes would only last for a while and run into oblivion.
Mr Speaker, these are some of the recommendations.

First of all, we need to have exchange programmes between Ghanaian families and other francophone families at a very early age. We need a State Agency that could register families in this country; a place that we could find families from la Cote d'Ivoire who are willing to welcome our children into their homes during vacations.

Mr Speaker, if we have our children who are in primary school four or five, or junior high school stay in French homes for six months, then after two or three visits, they would start to speak French.

Mr Speaker, in Ghana, there are families who have been to Israel, Scotland or Ireland, but they do not know about Benin or Burkina Faso. These families have not visited any country around us.

The cost of finding accommodation and feeding could be taken care of if a family gladly welcomes a person into their home.

I believe that there are many families in Ghana, and my family would be willing to welcome a boy or girl from Burkina Faso who would even compel my children to speak French. This is one of the things that we would need to consider.

Mr Speaker, the second issue is infrastructure. It should be possible to sit on a train and within four or five hours a person should go to Burkina Faso and return to Accra. So during the weekend, I could decide to do some shopping in Burkina Faso and the interface would force me to learn some basic French.

Mr Speaker, but if a person wants to go to la Cote d'Ivoire, because of some of the infrastructure problems, it could take a lot of effort. These are some of the real barriers for interacting as a community.

Mr Speaker, one of the indicators that everybody mentioned, which serves as a marker for investors to come into Ghana, is macroeconomic management -- that is how well the country's economy is being managed.

Mr Speaker, but one non- quantifiable factor that does not play out most of the time is the issue of language. If there is a French investor who knows that the majority of Ghanaians speak and apply French, the investor may come into this country for no real reason beyond French being a popular language.

Mr Speaker, but most of the time, it is difficult for us to interact and invest in one another's country because it is

known that when a person comes to Ghana, it is difficult to find people who speak French.

Mr Speaker, it is sad; when I was in third year of junior high school, I nearly got sacked because of challenges with school fees. Chiefs, elders and community leaders were sent to speak with the head of the school to waive the issue for my fees to be paid, but he was not ready to listen to anybody.

Fortunately, at the headmistress' office we met a woman who spoke a particular language that I would not mention here, but immediately the woman spoke the language to the head of the school, within minutes, my issue was resolved.

This tells us that what Nelson Mandela said is true -- When one speaks to a man in his own language, one speaks to the heart, but when one speaks to him in a language that he has learnt, then one only speaks to the head.

Mr Speaker, the heart is powerful in resolving issues. Regarding most of our challenges, if only we could speak our neighbour's language, then we would find solutions.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you for the opportunity.
Mr Speaker 11:47 a.m.
Any comments by Leadership?
Mr Joseph Y. Chiereh (NDC -- Wa West) 11:47 a.m.
Mr Speaker, it is a happy occasion that we are making this Statement to mark “Semaine de La Francophonie” -- “Francophonie Week”. Mr Speaker, it is important because if we look at what Francophonie stands for, it is not only the promotion of the French culture and language, but it is also about the economic development and progress of society.
We are proud to be members of La Francophonie, but it has its roots in the period before 2006.
The Provisional National Defence Council (PNDC) had very fruitful economic cooperation and develop- ment with the French Government, and a lot of investments were poured into this country to support this, including our energy and agriculture. Mr Speaker, so it did not take long for former President Kufuor to urge that we become associate members.
Mr Speaker, the French are very good in the development of culture. So at independence of their territories, a lot of commentators always mention the fact that they left the French territories with music and dancing whereas in the case of the British colonies, a lot more were left undeveloped.
Mr Speaker, that is why today, we go to Burkina Faso for the film festival that brings a lot of African film- makers together to show how much has been done in the area of filmmaking. Mr Speaker, La Francophonie has helped us through the cultural centre in Accra
Mr Joseph Y. Chiereh (NDC -- Wa West) 11:57 a.m.
and a lot of things that tie in are happening.
Our difficulty in not speaking the French language is primarily because the English language group has become a very powerful economic group. Britain, the United States of America (USA), Canada and so on have dominated the economies of the world for a long time.
Now, we also have the United Nations located in USA, so the desire and need to learn the French language is not as acute as we would want it always. Therefore, when we attend conferences and workshops with French speaking delegates, they would like to speak French -- but they also speak the English language because they are compelled by circumstances.
Mr Speaker, we hardly make any effort to speak French, but I am happy that the Government is promoting French language in schools to make sure that eventually, it becomes the second official language. We need to do so because we share a lot of things in terms of technology.
Mr Speaker, if we look at the list that the Hon Member who made the Statement gave about those who have French teachers; VRA -- because the Volta Lake links us to the countries to the north of Ghana, if we want to understand them better, it is only appropriate that we take our French lessons in our institutions seriously, including Parliament.
Mr Speaker, I see that many Hon Members of Parliament attend these lessons for a few weeks, but due to other reasons, they abandon it.
It is important because without that when we aspire for any position whether in ECOWAS, AU or United Nations, the French Government would always insist that, at least, we have a smattering of the language, appreciate their culture and also address a population that speak only French.
Mr Speaker, as a Parliament, we have also benefitted from the French and the Francophonie. By the example that we have studied from France, we have now developed the Parliamentary Friendship Associations better.
Effectively, we have relations with other countries to promote diplomacy, good neighbourliness and benefits that come to Parliament in terms of law making and enhancing the work of Parliament.

It is because former Rt Hon Speakers of this Parliament and the current Rt Hon Speaker initiated the process of ensuring that we study from the French Parliament on how they maintain friendship associations.

Today, we have rules and regulations that outline the way we could form friendship associations. We have to be grateful to them for that.

Mr Speaker, if we look at the emphasis of the La Francophonie, it is for us to measure ourselves, as a country, against many more countries that do not have the same English culture as we have.

Many of them envy Ghana because we have a dual position, which is effectively Commonwealth and at the same time a Francophonie, and the investment we get from the French sometimes exceeds those that go to other countries colonised by France.

Therefore, as a country, let us pay attention to the French language.

Monsieur le Président de l'Assemblée Nationale, merci beaucoup.
Mr Speaker 11:57 a.m.
Thank you very much.
Majority Leadership?
Mr Matthew Nyindam (NPP -- Kpandai) 11:57 a.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for this opportunity to contribute to the Statement on the Floor.
Mr Speaker, I am surprised the last contributor said something that I do not understand. I remember we travelled together and some young men approached us speaking the French language. I thought he would have saved the situation, but it never happened.
I thought the Hon Deputy Majority Leader would have saved the
situation, but it never happened. Of the seven of us, unfortunately, none could speak French.
So, I do not know what he said; whether it is really French or not, but we would take that one after this.
Mr Speaker, in my view, it is a good and right call by H. E. the President and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration to make the French language the second official language in this country. It is so important, and the benefits would be enormous.
If you move just a little outside this country, our neighbours speak the French language, and they have made conscious efforts to learn the English language.
Mr Speaker, it would interest you to know that most of these institutions we have that give employment and want people who could speak two or three languages, our sisters from these countries stand taller than us because we have not made conscious efforts to learn other languages like French to give us an added advantage when looking for employment.
People who speak more languages are easily employed in multinational institutions; unfortunately, we are not doing well.
We have always talked about trading among ourselves. How does one trade meaningfully with somebody whose language he cannot speak? How would he do it? If a person goes to Burkina Faso, how
Mr Speaker 11:57 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Deputy Majority Whip.
The Statement is referred to the Committee on Education to examine further our study of the French language and how best to implement this, mindful of the various benefits enumerated in this Honourable House.
Thank you, Hon Members.
That ends Statements time.
At the Commencement of Public Business. Item listed 4 -- Presentation of Papers -- By Hon Minister for Education.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:57 a.m.
Mr Speaker, if we may allow the Hon Minister for Monitoring and Evaluation to present the Paper on behalf of the Hon Minister in respect of item numbered 4(a).
Mr Speaker 11:57 a.m.
Thank you.
Yes, Hon Minister?
PAPERS 11:57 a.m.
Mr Speaker 11:57 a.m.
Item numbered 4 (b) (ii).
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:57 a.m.
Mr Speaker, item numbered 4 (b) (ii) is not ready.
Mr Speaker 11:57 a.m.
Item listed 5 -- Motion?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:57 a.m.
Mr Speaker, we would stand down items listed as 5 and, of course, the consequential Resolution listed as 6. So, we would go to item numbered
7.
Mr Speaker 11:57 a.m.
Thank you very much.
The Hon First Deputy would take the Chair.
Item listed 7 -- Ghana Iron and Steel Development Corporation Bill, 2019 at the Consideration Stage.
BILLS -- CONSIDERATION 12:07 p.m.
STAGE 12:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker 12:07 p.m.
Yes, Hon Chairman of the Committee?
Clause 1 -- Establishment of the Corporation
Vice Chairman of the Committee (Mr George M. Duker): Mr Speaker, respectfully, I am the Hon Vice Chairman of the Committee. I am standing in for the Hon Chairman of the Committee who is currently bereaved.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 1, sectional headnote, after “Ghana”, insert “Integrated”.
Mr Speaker 12:07 p.m.
It is very clear.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Duker 12:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 1, subclause (1), line 2 after “Ghana”, insert “Integrated”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Speaker 12:07 p.m.
Hon Members, item numbered 7(iii).
Yes, Hon Bernard Ahiafor?
MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:11 p.m.
Yes, Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in clause 1, there is a format that we have been using which I believe we would need to have a second look at.
If we say that clause 1(1) provides, and I beg to quote that:
“There is established by this Act a body corporate with perpetual succession…”
If the Act establishes a body corporate known as -- if it is established already by the Act, it is not to be constructed as to be known as…” because it says:
“There is established by this Act a body corporate with perpetual succession…”
Mr Speaker, we should depart from the construction “…to be known as…” to “…known as Ghana Integrated Iron and Steel Development Corporation”.
Mr Speaker, I believe that is the appropriate construction. I acknowledge that, indeed, that is how we have been doing it “…to be known as…” Once it is provided that the Act establishes it, the name is “Ghana Integrated Iron and Steel Development Corporation”.
So, I think, on reflection, he may have to depart from that and say:
“There is established by this Act a body corporate with perpetual succession known as the Ghana Integrated Iron and Steel Development Corporation”.
Alhaji Inusah A. B. Fuseini 12:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we did the amendment somewhere, and we got the Attorney- General's Department to agree with us that we delete “…to be…” because it is established, and it comes
into being. We would delete “…to be…” , and just say that:
“There is established by this Act a body corporate with perpetual succession…”
We have said that immediately a body corporate is established, one of its features is perpetual succession. So, there is a lot we are doing to clean up the way we draft our laws.
Mr Speaker, I entirely agree with the Hon Majority Leader that “there is” and “it is”.
“There is established…a body corporate with perpetual succession known as…”
Mr Joseph Yieleh Chireh 12:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe even as the Hon Majority Leader has said, we could make it simpler by saying:
“There is established by this Act the Ghana Integrated Iron and Steel Development Corporation as a body corporate with perpetual succession…”
Once we do that, it is easier; rather than introduce the elements of “…to be known as…”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:11 p.m.
I am still waiting for an Hon Member to move a Motion, so that we can take a decision on that.
Mr Chireh 12:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if the first Hon Member who moved the
Motion would agree with the further amendment, I move that it should read:
“There is established by this Act the Ghana Integrated Iron and Steel Development Corporation as a body corporate with perpetual succession…”
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that the further amendment further improves it. I think on our own we take inspiration from this, for which reason I second that amendment.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:11 p.m.
Hon Members, item listed 7(iii.)
In view of the amendment we have just agreed to, Hon Bernard Ahiafor, do you propose to continue with your proposed amendment?
Mr Bernard Ahiafor 12:17 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 1, subclause (2), line 2, delete “movable and immovable”.
The new rendition would read:
“For the performance of its functions, the Corporation may, acquire and hold property, dispose of property and enter into a contract or any other related transaction.”
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this is in line with our attempt to improve the drafting of Bills, and also in recognition of the fact that we are dealing with movable and immovable property. So, property could only be movable or immovable.
If we say the Corporation would have the power to acquire property, it could only be movable and immovable. We used to add that out of abundance of caution, but since we are improving it, we should just say “property”.
Ms Safo 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I support the proposed amendment. I also buttress the point that for purposes of consistency, we did same for the Bill that we concluded a week ago, which is the Chartered Institute of Bankers (Ghana) Bill.
The same amendment was proposed, and the House agreed that for the purposes of drafting in a neater way, where “movable and immovable” is included in the wording, to the extent that even “intellectual property” is involved in the term “property”, we should go by that definition and not repeat ourselves by limiting it to only movable and
immovable, having in mind that intellectual property is also a form of property.
So, Mr Speaker, I support the proposed amendment.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Ahiafor 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 1, subclause (3), line 1 delete “immovable”.
Mr Speaker, this is also in line with the amendment we made in the Chartered Institute of Bankers (Ghana) Bill.
Mr Speaker, the reason canvassed on the Floor was that Act 125 could only deal with immovable property. It cannot deal with movable property and because we are making reference to Act 125, there is basically no need to use “immovable”.
Ms Safo 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if my memory serves me right, in the Chartered Institute of Bankers (Ghana) Bill, which we just did, we decided that when it comes to “immovable”, it stays. This is because referral to the State Lands Act, 1962 (Act 125) is in relation to immovable property. So in this context, it is just for emphasis.
So, if we use “property” and we extend the amendment we made in (i) and (ii) to this same one, what we are saying is that property includes “movable, immovable and intellectual”. So, if we do not state “immovable property” but qualify it in
relation to the relevant law, which has been cross-referenced here, which is the State Lands Act, 1962, then the interpretation would be out of context.
So, I believe that “immovable” in this context should stay because the Act makes reference and can only apply to “immovable property”. So by just stating it, we exclude other forms of property that this Act would not apply to.
So, Mr Speaker, I think he should abandon the second proposal and let it stay the way it is in the Bill.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Ahiafor 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in principle, once we cross-reference the State Lands Act, 1962 (Act 125), we cannot deal with any other property apart from immovable property. This is because the law that we cross- referenced could only deal with immovable property.
Therefore, if we talk about “immovable property” in relation to Act 125, we cannot interpret “property” to include movable.
That was why I recalled that in the Chartered Institute of Bankers (Ghana) Bill, we said that the “immovable” is superfluous. This is because Act 125 could only deal with landed property because of the cross- referencing.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
So why do we call it State Lands Act?
Mr Ahiafor 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, State Lands Act, 1962 (Act 125).
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
Yes, why do we not call it State Property Act? This is because we want to be clear about which particular property we can use this law to acquire. That is why we say, “State Lands”.
So I am even opposed to using just “property” because if you look at the law, it says, “landed property”. So, where there is hindrance to the acquisition of landed property, which then refers to this land rather than just immovable property --
Mr Ahiafor 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, further improve on the rendition.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, what is your take?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was going to remind my Hon Colleague that the principle that he has espoused came up strongly in the previous Parliament. We debated it extensively, and I remember the then Rt Hon Speaker, Rt Hon Doe Adjaho, insisted that for this leg, we should have “immovable” because we should make it reader-friendly.
Mr Speaker, the Bills we fashion here are not only meant for the elucidation of lawyers or practitioners. It is meant for every citizen. When the person picks it up, he should read and understand.
So, whereas I agree with him to the extent that the State Lands Act refer to “immovable property”, I
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
So, Hon Member, you would change your proposed amendment to replace “immovable” with “landed”.
So, I would put the question on this rendition:
“Where there is a hindrance to the acquisition of landed property, the property may be acquired for the Corporation under the State Lands Act, 1962 (Act125) and the cost shall be borne by the Corporation.”
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 1 as amended is ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 2 is ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 3 -- Functions of the Corporation
12: 27 p. m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
Hon Leader, you are on your feet. You may speak.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 3 paragraph (a) should rather read:
“To achieve the object under section 2, the Corporation shall (a) undertake the preparatory work for the promotion and development of the integrated iron and steel industry”.
Mr Speaker, I believe that we should end there and delete the phrase 12:17 p.m.
“and related matters.” That phraseology usually comes at the end of the functions assigned to the entity. So, the phrase “and related matters,” that is from lines 2 and 3 of paragraph (a) should be deleted.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
Hon Members, we would move on to clause 3, item numbered (v), by the Hon Bernard Ahiafor. -- [Interruption.]
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, for paragraph (b) --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
Hon Leader, I do not remember recognising you. I heard the Hon Ahiafor's voice, and then suddenly it changed to your voice. What is happening? [Laughter.]
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, there was a cross divide communication between him and me.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
Yes, Hon Leader, you may speak.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the emphasis these days on development is on sustainability of the use of any resource. So, I thought that we could give a little qualification to the word “development” in clause 3, paragraph (b).
It says, and with your permission, I quote:
“collaborate with investors for the development of the integrated iron and steel industry.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
To those who did draftsmanship recently, is it acceptable to introduce the word “sustainable”? Are we going to define what the word “sustainable” is?
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
Yes, Hon Member?
Alhaji Fuseini 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe that the Hon Majority Leader's observation is very right. These days, concerning our natural resources, we are obliged to think about the future generation.
It is normally captured in the phrase; “generational equity”, which means that we would have to develop our steel and iron industry, only in a sustainable manner, so as not to compromise the opportunity for the future generation to also benefit.
Even if we take all the steel and iron ore, we should do it in such a way that we do not compromise the
environment for the future generation, and we could only do that if we exploit it in a sustainable manner.
Mr Speaker, therefore, I believe that even if it was not thought of by the promoters of the Bill, we as a Parliament should say that in exploiting this ore, it must be done in a sustainable manner. So, I support the amendment.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
Very well.
Hon Members, I would put the Question.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
Yes, Hon Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, there is no proposed amendment affecting clause 3, paragraphs (d) and (e). I am just looking at paragraph (d), which says, and with your permission, I read:
“ensure the development and implementation of a local content policy across the value chain in the integrated iron and steel industry.”
Mr Speaker, paragraph (e) then says, and with your permission, I read;
“ensure the participation and integration of Ghanaians in technical and managerial
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the first one talks about the participation of Ghanaians in the value chain. So, we must give opportunity to Ghanaians because steel can be transformed into many things. We must therefore give the opportunity to Ghanaians to participate in the value chain development.
Mr Speaker, however, in mana- gerial terms, it speaks to technology transfer, that we should get their technical men to be part of that development, so that we could have technology transfer in future. It is not local content. The first one is local content, but the second one actually talks to technology transfer.
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
Yes, Hon Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if we could remember, when we spoke to local content in the integrated aluminium industry, we said
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
Hon Members, well, there is no amendment on that one, so the Hon Ahiafor may now move the item numbered (v) on clause 3, paragraph (j).
Mr Ahaifor 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 3, paragraph (j), delete and insert the following:
“perform any other functions that are ancillary to the object of this Act;”
Mr Speaker, clause 3, paragraph (j) says, and with your permission I quote,
“perform any other functions under this Act or that are ancillary to the object of this Act.”
Mr Speaker, I believe that it is neater this way because paragraph (j) says 12:17 p.m.
“perform any other functions under this Act or that are ancillary to the object of this Act.”
Mr Speaker, clause 3 spells out the functions of the Corporation and this is an omnibus clause. Any other
function that is ancillary to the office under this Act should be performed under the omnibus clause. I feel strongly that it is neater this way.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
Very well.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I had not really seen his amendment, but I had proposed that we amended it. It should not be captured as the “object of the Act”, but the “object of the Corporation”. It should be captured as ancillary to the object of the Corporation.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
Hon Ahiafor, your amendment is captured as the “object of this Act”, but the Hon Majority Leader says it should be captured as “object to the Corporation”.
Mr Ahiafor 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would accept the further amendment.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:17 p.m.
Hon Members, we would move on to the item numbered (vi), clause 3, by the Hon Chairman of the Committee.
Mr Duker 12:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 3, paragraph (h), line 3, delete “instead” and after “payment” insert “are not declared and paid”.
Mr Speaker, I would want to make a further amendment, rather than what is published on the Order Paper.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, after the word “annual payments”, delete the phrase; “instead of dividend payments” and insert “are not declared and paid” and after “instead”, delete all the words.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:37 p.m.
Read the entire rendition.
Mr Duker 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the new rendition would read:
“ensure that, in respect of the carried interest of the State, indices are provided in the joint venture agreement for the guaranteed annual payments are not declared and paid;”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:37 p.m.
Something is missing. It should be “… that are not declared and paid”.
Mr Duker 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it should read:
“ensure that, in respect of the carried interest of the State, indices are provided in the joint venture agreement for the guaranteed annual payments that are not declared or paid.”
Mr Chireh 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not know the object of the amendment, but if you look at it, it would have been better if we said this:
“ensure that, in respect of the carried interest of the State, indices are provided in the joint
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the intendment is clear. We are talking about carried interest and because it is carried interest, it is sweat interest; it is not shares that we acquire payment for the shares. It is just about sweat interest in the venture.
In the past, because it is sweat interest, it is not quantified so most companies do not pay. But this time, we do not want the companies to treat it as dividends; we want the companies to pay some guaranteed sum annually. That is just what we want to do. The amendment should stop at “guaranteed annual payments”.
We do not need to introduce anything after that and then we delete “the”, because we have not spoken about “guaranteed annual payments” before, so we cannot now introduce a definite article at that point.
The new rendition would read:
“ensure that, in respect of the carried interest of the State, indices are provided in the joint
venture agreement for guaranteed annual payments.”
Dr A. A. Osei 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, even though I agree with my Hon Colleague, the part that says “guaranteed annual payments” -- if dividends are not declared or paid, it is only then that we want guaranteed payments.
If they do not declare the dividends, they do not pay anything. So that emphasis the Hon Vice Chairman made is very important. It should be there. If they are not paid or declared, then automatically, they would pay the guaranteed amount.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, what he said is that he wants two methods of payment for the carried interest. In situations where the dividend is declared, a portion of the carried interest should be paid as dividends. It is only when dividends are not declared -- Then Mr Speaker, I support the amendment except that “the” should be deleted.
The new rendition becomes:
“ensure that, in respect of the carried interest of the State, indices are provided in the joint venture agreement for guaranteed annual payments where dividends are not declared.”
Mr Chireh 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if you follow what is on the Order Paper, we are deleting “instead” -- [Interruption.]
Dr A. A. Osei 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Vice Chairman abandoned what is on the Order Paper.
Mr Chireh 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, he has abandoned it, what is the new rendition?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:37 p.m.
Hon Fuseini, kindly repeat your rendition for the Hon Member for Wa West.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, paragraph (h) should read:
“ensure that, in respect of the carried interest of the State, indices are provided in the joint venture agreement for guaranteed annual payments where dividends are not declared;”
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe the principle behind this construct is that we want to move away from the declaration of profits which yield dividends. This is a shift from that regime to, maybe, impose some payments based on turnover. So, it is not as if where dividends are not declared, this is how it should be done.
It is not as if indices are to be provided in the joint venture agreement only, where dividends are not declared. The original rendition says: “instead of dividend payments”. It shifts the payments from a levy on dividends, so to speak, to turnover. That is the principle.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Majority Leader is right, except that he mixed the second part and this arises out of Akilagpa's study and report. That for a long time, we granted concessions, took carried interest and even when gold prices went to US$1,800 per ounce, we got nothing.
So, that is the turnover. Those are the indices, but if we do not follow them, and they declared dividends, then we are entitled to the dividends.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:37 p.m.
But this subclause gives those who would do the joint venture agreement the responsibility by law to ensure that there are indices which show that if we do not have declared interest, then we must provide for the carried interest in the calculation of our -- I think it is right.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, you are right because you are trying to -- First of all, dividends can only be paid on the declaration of profit - - [Interruption.] Yes, that is the principle.
So, they will not declare profits and we would get nothing for our carried interest. That is why the joint venture must provide for indices so that we tax their turnover.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:37 p.m.
I will put the Question on the entire clause
3.
Clause 3 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, unfortunately, I was not part of the Committee's consideration.

I have not finished and there is a chorus of noes behind me. The mandate involves that and it does not necessarily mean that they should do it.

Mr Speaker, just like bauxite, we do not now want to mine and ship the ore away but we want to have a refinery built. I would even intimate that as of now, the discussion is to have three refineries; one at Sheni, one at Pudo and one at Oppong- Manse. That is part of the discussion that is shaping the establishment of this Development Corporation.
Dr A. A. Osei 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was just telling the Hon Majority Leader that I think that the concept of integrated implies to all the value chain, including refinery. So that it is taken care of.
Clause 4 -- Powers of the Corporation
Mr Ahiafor 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to abandon my proposed amendment to clause 4.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:37 p.m.
Very well. The amendment numbered 7 (vii) is hereby abandoned.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, just a minor matter. I beg to move, clause 4(2)(b), line 1, insert “other” after “any” and before “activity”. The new rendition would read: “engage in any other activity”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 4 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 5 -- Governing body of the Corporation
Mr Ahiafor 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 5, subclause (1), opening phrase, redraft as follows:
“There is established a governing body of the Corporation which is a Board consisting of”.
Mr Chireh 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we have established the Corporation and he wants to establish the Board? By our legislation, the governing Board of the Corporation is -- but you cannot establish a Board again after you have established the -- [Interruption.] Why is the Hon Member introducing “established” again? In our legislation, we would just say the “governing body”.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if you read clause 5, it begins as; “There is established a governing body of the Corporation which is a Board consisting of”, as if the
governing body is in place already. Clause 5 gives birth to the governing body and that is why it is establishing it.
That is what we have done in the most recent Bills. Even though the Hon Member is a revolutionary, he is still a conservative. He wants to go back to the old days. I think we are making progress and it is neater this way.
Mr Chireh 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Majority Leader championed the argument for us to refine even the establishment to be known as among others. All we have been doing in this Parliament is to say that “the governing body of the Corporation”. If we are now adding “established”, what are we establishing?
We do not establish Boards; they are part of the governance structures of any institution. Therefore, the phrase we have used all along is “the governing body of”. In 2005, we argued here for hours, because we were then changing from where we used to have as a name, a Commission, Council or Board. So, once we had all those in our legal system such as Pharmacy Board --
We were now changing them all and following the Review Commissioner's suggestions. That is why we introduced “the governing body” to ensure this. If we are now establishing Boards -- the Boards we used to establish were like the Pharmacy Board, the Food and Drugs Authority which used to be a Board,
however, this is the governing body and we do not need to establish it.
Dr A. A. Osei 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I support my Hon good Friend, the former Minister for Health. The last time, maybe, because we were working on the Chartered Institute of Bankers (Ghana) Bill, there was a Board and a Council, so we have to make that distinction and establish the Board which was the Council. Here, it does not arise at all, so I agree with him.
With the Chartered Institute of Bankers (Ghana) Bill, we established the Board and said it is known as the Council. That is why we had to do that. Here, we do not, so I support the Hon Member.
Alhaji Fuseini 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I get the sense -- we had agreed even in the Special Prosecutor Bill, that we must bring that body into being before we can give it functions. However, my difficulty is that we used “established” in establishing the Corporation and we are now establishing a Board again.
In interpretation, it could run into problems because we established by this Act, the Corporation and we are now establishing again, a Board. So, probably, we need to look at it carefully. We cannot establish in the same Act, the Corporation and a body.
Dr A. A. Osei 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in the Ghana Integrated Bauxite and Aluminium Development Authority Bill, it is the same thing we did. Once
Mr Ahiafor 12:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in the Chartered Institute of Bankers (Ghana)Bill, the most recent Bill passed by this House, we never established a governing body and a Board separately. We said that there is established a governing body which is the Council.
So, in this rendition, we are also saying that there is established a governing body which is the Board of the Corporation. So, it is one and the same thing, unless we are saying that what we did in the Chartered Institute of Bankers (Ghana) Bill was wrong.
Other than that, for purposes of consistency, this should be the rendition that should stand in this new Bill.
Mr Chireh 12:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with the Chartered Institute of Bankers (Ghana) Bill, we created a body which is a public body, but with professional functions assigned to another body which are professionals -- just for him to remember that it is because we would want to establish a Board which has different peculiarities and functions from the normal Boards that are established under the corporate bodies. That is why it is said that, “it is hereby established but to be known as a Council''.

I said that the “Board'' under the Chartered Institute of Bankers (Ghana) Bill is a public body because it is corporate -- but at the same time, there are professionals and people in the banking sector who must qualify people, so another executive body which is a professional role is set up for them.

The first Board of that Institution is a normal Board, but the other one which would be established to conduct examination and qualify people must have a different categorisation and therefore, it is a peculiar one and should be limited to that.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:57 p.m.
Hon Members, there is an advice from the draftspersons that the proposed amendment is not in line with precedents. Having established a corporate entity, it is clear thatla Cote d'Ivoire that Corporate body would act through a Governing body and so, there is no need to establish a governing body again. All that is required is to indicate the membership.
Mr Ahiafor 12:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, based on the advice, I withdraw the proposed amendment.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:57 p.m.
Hon Members, in that case, is the existing rendition all right or we would want to improve it?
Mr Chireh 12:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in subclause 1, particularly, after paragraph (a), there is:
“a representative of the Ministry responsible for Mines not below the rank of…''
This keeps repeating, so if we want to save ourselves --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:57 p.m.
First, let us look at the opening line of the proposed amendment.
“There is established a governing body of the Corporation which is…''
So,
“The governing body of the Corporation is a Board consisting of --
Is that all right? So that I would abandon the proposed amendment. [Interruption.] All right. So the records should reflect that the proposed amendment to clause 5 is hereby withdrawn.

Hon Member, you may proceed.
Mr Chireh 12:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, from paragraph (b), the words “repre- sentative of the Ministry” and “not below the rank of a Director'' are
repeated, so we could easily recast from paragraph (b) to say, “a representative not below the rank of a Director'' and then we list the Ministries so that it would be easier.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, except that those ones would not cover clause 5 (a), (i) and (j), so we could leave it as it is.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:57 p.m.
I really have a problem, but this is a suggestion to the House. Do we want to establish a Civil Service Board? This is because what we have done is clearly an extension of the Civil Service. Is that what we want in this Corporation? I suggest that we defer consideration on it.
Hon Majority Leader, you lead Government Business, is that what Government wants?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I read it and I am of the opinion that we have to look at it again in the composition because we want people of a certain calibre to run the Corporation on prudent commercial lines and sound business principles.
If we pack the Corporation with civil servants, how do we ensure that? We should look at the composition of the governing body again.
Mr Speaker, so respectfully, we could stand that one down even though there are no proposed amendments or, perhaps, go through and indicate to ourselves that we shall take it through a Second Conside- ration Stage.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:57 p.m.
I truly suggest that we defer consideration of the composition of clause 5.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:57 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker, to the extent that in other places, some of the constituting members, the Chairperson and the Chief Executive have been mentioned. If we decide not to consider it, it may pose a problem as we go along the line.
So, we could flag it and move on and in all likelihood come to it during a Second Consideration Stage because I am not impressed about the composition of the governing Council.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:57 p.m.
I agree that we flag it.
Mr Chireh 12:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, while standing it down, the promoters of the Bill should look at it very clearly because the whole idea is for us to set up an Integrated Steel and Iron Industry. The people who are called to do this are mainly government officials, unless they are specialists in this area.
One of the reasons which was raised was that a refinery should be built. We should be a little more flexible and bring in people who are qualified from the industry, but of course, there are key Ministries which would play some role and not this particular thing.
Otherwise, we would have another bureaucracy and at the end, nothing would come out of this whole
business. They should look at it carefully.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:57 p.m.
So, consideration of clause 5 is suspended.
There are no advertised amendments to clause 6 to17. Shall we take them one after the other, or I should put the Question on all of them?
Clause 6 -- Functions of the Board
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would want to make a minor correction to clause 6(b).
“ensure that the Corporation conducts its affairs on sound commercial lines and in accordance with business and industry best practices;''
Mr Speaker, the language of the Constitution is “prudent commercial lines and in accordance with sound business principles and industry best practices'' as also replicated in our Standing Orders 184(2). If we do not mind, we could just make that small alteration so that it would read:
“ensure that the Corporation conducts its affairs on prudent commercial lines and in accordance with sound business principles and industry best practices''.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 6 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 7 to 10 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 11 — Allowances

Mr Chireh — rose --

Mr Speaker, if we look at the second line of clause 11, we normally say, for instance:

“Members of the Board and members of a committee of the Board shall be paid the allowances determined by the Minister in consultation with the Minister responsible for Finance.”

But here, they are saying and I beg to read:

“Members of the Board and members of a committee of the Board shall be paid the allowances approved by the Minister in consultation with the Minister responsible for Finance.”

So, I would want the word “approved” changed to “determined”; it is a process and he has to do so with the Minister for Finance. The approval finally comes from the Minister.

Question put and amendment agreed to.

Clause 11 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 12 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 13 — Chief Executive Officer
Bonsu — rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:07 p.m.
Yes Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, there is no advertised amendment, but if my memory serves me right, I think for the Ghana Integrated Bauxite and Aluminium Development Authority Act (2018), we further improved by adding that the President shall have regard of the competence, knowledge and expertise of the Chief Executive Officer (CEO).
In respect of the Integrated Iron and Steel Development, I think we had such a formulation for the Ghana Integrated Bauxite and Aluminium Development Authority Act (2018), and so if we could adopt same. Other than that, even though we expect the appointor to be candid and fair, we never know where we would get to.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 13 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 14 to 17 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr Duker 1:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 18, paragraph (c), delete and insert the following:
Dr A. A. Osei 1:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have always had trouble with this section of the Bill. Paragraph (a) reads, “moneys approved by Parliament” and it includes grants and loans. The Hon Minister for Finance cannot, on his own, approve grants and loans. Even for Internally Generated Funds, he must come to this House so it is only this House that approves funds for all of them.
But in the Budget Statement, there is a contingency line that is at the discretion of the Hon Minister for Finance and that is the only one he has discretion on. Otherwise, everything else is approved by Parliament. So, the Hon Vice Chairman is right, but the Hon Minister does not approve grants and loans.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:07 p.m.
Is that consistent with the recent decision of the court regarding corporate bodies borrowing on their balance sheets? There is a recent judgment, I think, on Ghana National Petroleum Corporation (GNPC), and the court ruled that corporate bodies can take loans on their own —
Mr Chireh 1:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the way the Hon Minister for Monitoring and Evaluation has expressed this, paragraph (a) could be money that is budgeted and brought to Parliament, and so we approve that this is what should go to the Corporation.
Now, Internally Generated Fund is clear, but when it comes here, we should separate grants and loans to be on their own, and any other moneys, as he himself said. So it should not be paragraph (c) that should be amended. If we just say “loans and grants”, then obviously it has to be here.
But then if we say, “any other moneys that may be approved by the Minister”, and where the contingency money has come to the attention of the Minister and he wants to support a particular thing, that would have already been approved by this House in essence. But it was not specifically approved for the Corporation.
I would want the Vice Chairman to vary the amendment to say, paragraph (c) remains and he would add, “and any other moneys approved by the Minister responsible for Finance.”
So there would be a clause 18 (d).
Dr A. A. Osei 1:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, he has made a very good observation and I agree with him but clause 18 (b) has to come to Parliament. We have to approve the quantum of IGF that they would use under the Fees and Charges Act, 2009 (Act 793).
So I would rather take up clause 18(b), leave out clause 18(c) and add the amendment of the Hon Vice Chairman of the Committee so that it
would take care of his concern because clause 18(b) must come to Parliament. It is not automatic.
Mr Chireh 1:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the clause 18 (b) sometimes is automatic because if we approve that they take 100 per cent, they do not need to come again. If it is 50 per cent, that is a different matter. [Interruption.] We would have approved of it.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, by the Fees and Charges Act, 2009 (Act 793), anytime all of them must do anything, they must come here. They are moneys approved by Parliament. If they want to raise their fees by GH¢1, by the new Act, they must come here because it is part of moneys that Parliament approves.
It does not have to be a specific amount budgeted for, say, from oil revenues. As long as it is approved by Parliament, it is all right.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:17 p.m.
So what is the agreed proposed amendment?
Dr A. A. Osei 1:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 18 (b), delete and insert, “other moneys approved by the Minister responsible for Finance”. It would now read:
“The funds of the Corporation include
(a)moneys approved by Parliament;
(b)grants and loans; and
(c) other moneys approved by the Minister res- ponsible for Finance.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:17 p.m.
Very well, I will put the Question.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 18 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 19 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 20 -- Expenses of the Corporation
Mr Chireh 1:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if we assess what they have said, it means that we can use loans and grants to also pay expenses of the Corporation. To avoid that, I would propose that;
“The expenses of the Cor- poration shall be paid from moneys provided for by the Corporation under section 18 except (c).”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:17 p.m.
But which one is clause18(c)?
Mr Chireh 1:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 18(c) then will be, “grants and loans”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:17 p.m.
No, Hon Member, because we have removed, “Internally Generated Funds”. So clause 18(c) will become, “other moneys approved by the Minister responsible for Finance”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:17 p.m.
Hon Member, what would clause 18(a) and (c) do?
Mr Chireh 1:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, these are the only moneys one could use to run the Corporation. [Interrup- tion] No, the expenses of the Corporation --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:17 p.m.
Why?
Mr Chireh 1:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with the expenses of the Corporation, nobody would give a loan and allow it to be used for payment of expenses like salaries and consumable items. That is the distinction.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:17 p.m.
Hon Member, but expenditure is not limited to -- Expenditure could include investment, buying shares and so on. I do not think we should limit the organisation in any respect.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:17 p.m.
Yes, Hon Kpodo, welcome.
Mr Kpodo 1:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
I think what my Hon Colleague, Mr Yieleh Chireh, is saying has to do with the expenses. Normally, in accounting terminology, expenses are the running costs which are written off. They normally do not result in any
direct visible investments. If we want to cover both running cost and other investment activities, we would have to use a broader expression which is, “expenditure”.
This would cover both normal expenses and other investment activities as well so that we can use that sentence alone instead of splitting it.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe that we really mean amounts set aside for the daily running of the Corporation, otherwise, we would not even create clause 20. Once, we stated in clause 18 what the funds of the Corporation are, then it is not necessary to have clause 20, if, indeed, it is supposed to even cover capital expenditure.
But then, to make the distinction between the regular expenses and other capital expenditure, that is why we have clause 20. So I would agree with the suggestion made by the Hon Yieleh Chireh, except, when he says, we should exempt the original clause 18 (c).
Who says we cannot use grants? We would want to resist that temptation of using loans but grants could be used for the daily running of Corporation. We would want to really use loans to capitalise the enterprise.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not think we need to amend clause 20 at all, especially given how we have defined clause 18, and it makes reference to clause 18.
Expenses are expenses. I can go to a commercial market, borrow and tell them I am using it to pay salaries. It is up to them to accept. If they do not accept, I would not be given the loan.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:17 p.m.
Indeed, clause 21 is clear on borrowing powers and the terms we agree on.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:17 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker, so we do not need to amend clause
20.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we do not need clause 20 at all because the Corporation would not go anywhere and look for money to run its expenses. That is why we have the funds for the Corporation.
The expenses which is the cost of running the Corporation -- [Interruption] -- I have just googled for the definition of “expenses” from the business dictionary and it means “cost”.
Mr Speaker, “expenses” means the cost of doing something. So if it is the cost of running the business, it would come from the moneys here. We know that clause 21 now says that if we want to invest, we should use clause 18(b) which is the loans and grants. So we do not need this one here.
This is the first time we are actually putting it in law that expenses shall be charged to the fund of the Corporation. No, we do not need it.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in good faith, you can assume that all will come from what he is saying under clause 18. Just assume that a Chairman and a corporation decide to sell cocaine and use it, that cannot be allowed and that is why they have to be specific.
So, we do not want to give room for anybody to go outside what has been specified if they go and sell cocaine and use that money as their personal expenses, then we are giving room for that. We do not want to give room for that except only what we approve so that they will not have the mind to do any bad things. So, you will need it.
rose
Mr Speaker 1:27 p.m.
I have not given you the Floor. I would want to listen to the Hon Member for Wa West first.
Mr Chireh 1:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe that the draftspersons would have had ‘administrative expenses' in mind. So, for us, if you say that clause 20 is not needed, it is not true.
In fact, if you look at the National Health Insurance Formula that we approved, we pegged their adminis- trative expenses at a certain level. I am surprised the Hon Minister for Monitoring and Evaluation is saying this.
He knows that if you are going to borrow money or being given a grant, there are conditions attached. You
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:27 p.m.
Is it impracticable for a private or public company to take loans to pay two or three month's salaries while they are expecting returns?
We should not bar them. Indeed, as you speak, I know public sector organisations that, because they experience some shortfalls, they take loans but money will come and they will pay it back. So, I do not think that we should bar anybody from taking -- Hon Member, having given you the Floor, let me listen to Hon Kpodo.
Mr Kpodo 1:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, as for all moneys due the Corporation, it must go into their bank account whether it is a grant, loan or money approved by Parliament. This is because the Corporation cannot sit there and somebody else will be making expenditures or receiving income on behalf of the Corporation.
Some of these grants and loans that we contract, there are recurrent expenditure elements in them. You take a loan, they allow you to buy a vehicle in order to execute a project for which the loan is intended and you can buy fuel, replace tyres and so on as they are all running expenses. So, they are allowable even from loans and grants.
However, the problem is, whether we can define expenses to cover even investment activities. That is why I was saying that expenditures are generally outflows from our resources.
Mr Speaker, whether it is for capital or recurrent, they are expenditures and that is why when we are preparing financial reports, we say; ‘statement of income and expenditure'. So, if we can replace “expenses” with “expenditure”, then it covers all the outflows from the resources of the Corporation.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would want to invite my good Friend to look at clause 21; it is specific -- “of a capital nature”. Clause 21 talks about capital expenditure and it is very clear, so clause 20 is all right as we do not need to amend it at all. I think we need to move on.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, initially, I thought that we should not allow loans and grants but after listening to you, I think that you are perfectly right; that is what we call bridge financing. So what we can do is to make it abundantly clear, that the expenses we are talking about in clause 20 is ‘administrative expenses'.
So that if they go for a loan and they use it to run the Corporation -- then we can know whether the governing board has used the loan prudently.
Mr Speaker, so I propose that we further amend clause 20, line 1, insert ‘administrative' after the first word “the”. So that it becomes;
“The administrative expenses of the Corporation shall be paid from moneys provided to the Corporation under section
(18).”
Mr Duker 1:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do agree with the new amendment proposed by the Hon Member who just spoke.
Mr Speaker, the title can also change to reflect the ‘Administrative expenses'. Clause 20 also seeks to, in a way, cement clause 18. That is, whatever expenses that the Corporation may incur will have to go through as well stipulated under clause 18.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:27 p.m.
So, I will put the Question on the amendment to the heading. It is, insert “administrative” at the beginning and
so, it shall be; “Administrative expenses of the Corporation”
Question put and amendment agreed to.
The next amendment is clause 20, line 1, insert ‘administrative' between “the” and “expenses”. So, it shall read:
“The administrative expenses of the Corporation shall be paid from moneys provided for the Corporation under section
(18).”
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 20 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 21 -- Borrowing powers
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:27 p.m.
There is no advertised amendment for clause 21, I will put the -- Yes, Hon Member for Ho Central?
Mr Kpodo 1:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, when I was talking about clause 20, I raised the issue of expenditure and the Hon Member for Old Tafo referred me to clause 21. On reading clause 21 carefully, it makes reference to borrowing of money to meet an expenditure of a capital nature including provisions for working capital.
So, here, we are restricting ourselves to only borrowed money. Does it mean that the Corporation cannot invest money from any other stocks for capital expenditure? I just want a clarification regarding that.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, “grants and loans” is part of clause 18. Clause 21 seeks to say that if you want to borrow for capital expen- diture, you must go by the Public Financial Management Act (PFMA) and the Constitution. It does not mean that you cannot borrow for administrative expenses. This happens in all corporations. If you are expecting money and it does not come in, temporarily, just like the Government does, they borrow --
So, borrowing is allowed but clause 21 is saying that if you want to go for capital expenditure, make sure that you follow the Constitution and the Act.
So borrowing is allowed for administrative expenses.
Mr Kpodo 1:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that the provision in clause 21 is only to enable us to comply with the Constitution and the PFMA. But for general operations of the Corporation -- as we were referring to under clause 20 -- we need to empower the corporation to spend money on both administrative and capital expenditures from its funds.
It must be empowered -- if we are just limiting clause 20 to “administrative expenses” and we do

If we want to build a house, then that is not administrative and there is no provision for capital expenditure in clause 20.

Mr Speaker, when he referred me to clause 21, I said that it was covering all but clause 21 refers to only borrowed money -- for us to comply with the Constitution and PFMA, especially where the borrowing would be done outside Ghana.

Mr Speaker, that is why I am saying that there is an omission for capital expenditure outflows from the accounts of the Corporation.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:37 p.m.
Hon Member, I do not see clause 20 as limiting expenditure on any other matter. It is only saying that when it comes to administrative expenses, they are restricted to these three.
But for all other businesses, the same source including borrowing is permitted. It is not restrictive, so to speak. So I do not think that we should split hairs over this.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I also think that we do not need to split hairs over this except that I have a further amendment to clause 21. We are subjecting the Corporation's power to borrow to the 1992 Constitution and so we are making that provision rigid. It means that if they want to exercise that power, then they have to come to this House for approval.
Mr Speaker, but section 76 of the PFMA says that if the Corporation agrees with a lender for the purposes of growing, then all they have to do under section 76 is to submit the terms sheet to the Hon Minister for Finance for advice, and if the Hon Minister advises positively, then they could borrow.
Mr Speaker, so I beg to propose that we subject clause 21 to only section 76 or else they would come back to this House. But if it is the intendment of the promoters of the Bill that anytime that they want to borrow they must come to this House, then we should leave it the way it is, because if the Hon Minister for Finance is borrowing -- Looking at the formulation here: “The Corporation may …”
The Corporation would have no capacity to appear before this House with a loan agreement. The only time the Hon Minister would appear in this House with a loan agreement for and on behalf of the Corporation would be when they are borrowing on behalf of Government to on-lend to the Corporation. So, let us look at it carefully.
Mr Speaker, so I beg to propose that we should delete “the Constitution and” and just say that “subject to section 76 of the PFMA”.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if we do not do that, then from your own argument, the Hon Minister for Finance could never borrow on their
behalf. They could borrow on their balance sheet as the Supreme Court says, but if we do not subject it to the Constitution, then the Hon Minister for Finance could never borrow for them. But the Hon Minister must come here so we need that.
If the Hon Minister for Finance wants to borrow and on-lend, then he must come here so we need this part. [Interruption.] The Supreme Court has interpreted it -- if the Hon Minister for Finance is borrowing for them, it must be subjected to the Constitution, but they could also borrow on their balance sheet as was the case of the Ghana Ports and Harbours Authority (GPHA). But if they do not have this, then the Hon Minister for Finance cannot come here, borrow and on- lend to them.
Mr Chireh 1:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that we need to leave it as it is because, no matter what, if the Corporation is even going to borrow on its balance sheet, it would still need a guarantor or the person who is lending would need Government's assurance. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker, the point I am making is that once they want to borrow, it would be based on some assurance that Government and the institution would have assured that it would be repaid. Therefore, this one needs to be there to subject it to --
Mr Speaker, if we say these things -- the Constitution says that the only person who could borrow is the Hon
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:37 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I really do not see the reason for this call to delete the Constitution because whatever is done legally must be done in conformity with the Constitution anyway and to the extent that whatever is done is which inconsistent would be a nullity.
So, I do not see the reason he is saying that we should delete “subject to the Constitution” because whatever is done -- the Public Financial Management Act must be consistent with the Constitution.
So, why is he saying that we should leave that one there and remove the Constitution? It must be situated in the Constitution so we must keep the two.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is a policy position and I do not have a problem. I am just saying that as a country, we have decided to move away from securitising loans that have been taken by public corporations on the back of Government because it increases the public debt.
We decided to move so that if a corporation such as the Ghana Civil Aviation Authority on their balance
sheet borrows money to build Terminal 3, then Terminal 3 is not part of the debt of this country. But if we subject it to the Constitution, then it would have to come here because article 1 --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:37 p.m.
Hon Member, that is where I have a problem with your interpretation. Why must it come here because it is subject to the Constitution?
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it must come here because the Constitution provides the procedure for taking loans.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:37 p.m.
That is one form of borrowing.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, yes.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:37 p.m.
But there is the other option based on their own balance sheet like you mentioned. So, the constitutional part is applicable and their own balance sheet is --
They have a balance sheet because the Constitution makes it possible for them to set up and for Parliament to pass a law giving them the power to source for money.
That is why it is still subject to the Constitution but this does not restrict them from borrowing on their balanced sheet to do things from which they could pay. So, I do not think that we should touch it.
I would put the Question.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 21 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 22 -- Special Power Purchase Rates
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:37 p.m.
Hon Member for Wa West.
Mr Chireh 1:47 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I really do not have an amendment but I see that there seems to be a contradiction between clause 22(1) and clause 22(2) because if you look at the Memorandum of the Bill, it says that the Corporation would be given special treatment which would mean, maybe, subsidising their power. So, if we take the first one that: “The State shall ensure the availability of power to the integrated iron and steel industry” and then we are saying that it should be done at a globally competitive rate. [Interruption.]
I am saying the globally competitive rate -- if I remember the Volta Aluminium Company (VALCO) situation, what was available to other smelters was not the same as that of VALCO. They got it at a very low and subsidised rate.
I thought that because the State is establishing this industry, we should not put it as globally competitive. If it is globally competitive, it might be difficult to supply them with power, but if there is no problem with this, I have no problem either.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:47 p.m.
Hon Member, if I understand you, the price at which we sell to them power should make them be on the same level as the least possible cost, so that their cost does not be above the market cost. I think it should stand as it is.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:47 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think the point made by the Hon Member that even though the intent is to have a lower price delivered to the facility, if we look at the global trend for the industry, it might be higher than what we are looking at domestically.
So, perhaps, he wants a much cleaner rendition of it to ensure that we do not in any way disadvantage the infant industry. That is the sense I got from him.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:47 p.m.
Mr Speaker, you are perfectly right because the steel and iron industry consumes lot of power, and they have also got their indices all over the world.
In order to sell power to them to be competitive, we have to sell it at the price that other global steel companies buy their power, which would be lower than the price that we sell our power in Ghana. That would be lower because they consume a lot.
This one says we must not also be disadvantaged. I think it is very prudent because we have learnt from VALCO that it was only able to be in business because they reaped off profits from our power and not from the aluminium.
Mr Mutawakilu Adam 1:47 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the steel and iron industry is capital intensive. This is to attract private investors to take part, and they would always look at the global competitive tariffs.
If the deliberate effort is not made to make it certain, we would set up this Corporation and at the end of the day, nobody would be interested to partner with the Government to set up the steel and iron industry that we want. So, Government's intervention is very critical in this case.
Mr Kpodo 1:47 p.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 22 (1) refers to availability. I have no problem with that, but clause 22 (2) talks about pricing.
If the power prices in the country are considered to be slightly higher than what we described here as globally competitive rate, it means there would be a difference between the price that the Corporation would purchase power and what the power producers in the country offer.
There is a gap. Automatically, we are legislating subsidy from
somewhere, which is difficult for me. Would the State take up the difference between the price that the Corporation would buy power and what it costs to produce?
Then we are legislating for subsidy, which the State is moving away from. So, why would we legislate subsidy for a particular Corporation?
l think the deletion of clause 22 (2) is better for us. Subclause (1) on availability is necessary; but subclause (2), for us to legislate subsidy for the Corporation, is economically harmful.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:47 p.m.
This is positive discrimination. It cannot be harmful to industry if there are so many employees who would pay more taxes.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:47 p.m.
Mr Speaker, all over the world, for smelters, the power is always delivered to them at industry benchmarked price. That is what it is everywhere.
Mr Speaker, my Hon colleague is shirking his own socialist credentials. He is not a proper socialist. These are industry benchmarked prices. I believe we could go on with that.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:47 p.m.
Hon Kpodo, I did not recognise the “socialist” reference to you.
Yes, Hon Member for Damongo?
Mr Adam 1:47 p.m.
Mr Speaker, luckily in Ghana, we have various generation mix; hydro, thermal, solar and gas. So
we could look at the most economical one and dedicate it to the industry. Mr Speaker, but we must also look behind the multiplier effect it would have. If it is profitable, corporation and income tax would come in. That would set off this special concession given by the Government.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:47 p.m.
Hon Members, I would put the Question.
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:47 p.m.
Do you want to arrest the votes?
Dr A. A. Osei 1:47 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we know what the policy is, and the rendition must be correct. I do not know who told Hon Kpodo that we have moved from subsidy. That is not Government's policy. I think we would want to give them a rate that would make them globally competitive, and not to give them a globally competitive price.
There is a difference. We would subsidise them so that they become globally competitive -- that is all right. That is what Chinese and American companies do, so there is nothing wrong with it.
We do not say a globally competitive rate. What is a globally competitive rate? That is what he is saying.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:47 p.m.
So, you propose that “rate” should move to before “globally” to read:
“Industry shall be provided at a rate which is globally ...”
Let me listen to the Hon Ranking Member for the Committee on Mines and Energy.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:47 p.m.
The policy, first of all --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:47 p.m.
I wanted to listen to the Hon Ranking Member.
Mr Adam 1:47 p.m.
It is normally “globally competitive rate”. It is very difficult to determine what would make globally competitive. lf not, they become vulnerable where they take advantage to renegotiate it so low to their advantage.
So, we are to look at the competitive rate globally and set it for them. Therefore, it is globally competitive rate.
Mr Samuel A. Akyea 1:47 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am of the view that if we have in mind an arrangement in which the Government could subsidise power supply to this specialised area, it would be inconsistent with clause 2. Immediately we make it globally competitive, the subsidy dimension is gone. We cannot have it that way. [Interruption.]
Yes, it is applicable to the industry in the world, and not applicable in Ghana. When we say “globally”, then we make it an international rate. If we would want to make it an international rate, then we do not intend to subsidise.
It is the international rates that
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, first of all, it is important for us to read the whole provision. It says:
“The power to be supplied to the integrated iron and steel industry shall be provided at a globally competitive rate applicable to the iron and steel industry.”
That is the qualifying phrase which means that there is industry practice.
Secondly, if we go along the trajectory that has been suggested, we would offer ourselves freely for any investor. This is because to say that we should make their product globally competitive means that we would have to forego a lot of things, including inefficiencies in production.
Mr Speaker, thirdly, we risk bringing ourselves within the World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules, where we offer favourite treatment to a company equally circumstanced, there would be a rise to the bottom. So, that is why industry practice has set out the rate.
As the Hon Ranking Member of the Mines and Energy Committee said, the Government could decide, like they did in the Volta Aluminium Company (VALCO) case, that
because power produced through hydro is relatively cheaper, we would give this industry power from hydro sources, and that would not affect the rate to the industry. We would decide that --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:57 p.m.
Hon Colleagues, having regards to the state of Business in the House, I direct that the House Sits outside the regular Sitting hours.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, or we decide that we would give them power from gas. By law, we cannot import power from hydro sources into this country. That is why any power that we export out of this country -- [Interruption.] It is a law.
We give them power over the generation price of hydro, so we do not supply them with power from hydro sources. Any time we supply the generation mix, we sell above what the production cost is for hydro or gas.
Mr Speaker, you got the formulation very right. The formulation is simple - that we give them power at globally competitive rates applicable to the steel and iron industry.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:57 p.m.
Let me listen to the Hon --
Dr A. A. Osei 1:57 p.m.
We are talking as if --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:57 p.m.
Hon Minister, you have spoken a lot, but the Hon Member for Akim Oda has not spoken. Let me listen to him.
Mr William A. Quaittoo 1:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, here, power is only one cost element. If my memory serves me right, in school, “ore” was defined as a material that contains the metal from which it is commercially feasible to extract.
So, if we have the ore in abundance, it becomes cheap, the power is high, and we could still extract it and be globally competitive, then we could do so.
Here, if we say we should sell the power at a globally competitive price, it means that if the power is very expensive for us to manufacture, we should sell it at a lower price because someone sells his at a very cheap price. This should not be the case.
The case should be that, if our ore is cheap but our power is expensive, we could still go ahead and have the integrated industry because we have very cheap ore.
So, with expensive power, we could still make profit, therefore, the industry could become globally competitive. Our industry should be globally competitive, and not the power that we would market. We cannot compare our power to someone's.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:57 p.m.
Hon Member, look at the headnote -- “Special power purchase rates”. So, everything we discuss should relate to how much we would sell power to --
Mr Quaittoo 1:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if we look at the second point, it is like we
are comparing the price of power to that of other competitors outside.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:57 p.m.
That is exactly the point. The price of power for domestic use or as it says here, if we sell it at that same price, it would be too high; but if you look at how much countries that produce steel around the world buy power and yours is higher than that, you reduce it to bring it to a level where their competitors sell power. If I understand it, this is the whole idea.
Mr Adam 1:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my Hon Colleague linked it to the ore. That is why that day in my contribution, I made it clear that this is distinct from the role of the Minerals Commission. So, it is not like the deposit is there, and we go to extract.
There must be an agreement that would be submitted to this Parliament for approval. So, that side must be treated separately because it must go through ratification. What we are looking at is the middle -- after it has been mined, transforming it to its final product is what we are considering.
Mr Speaker, there is a globally competitive rate. When we take China, India, Europe and America, at the end of the day, there is a globally competitive rate.
As I indicated, this is not to give so much power to the investor to have the opportunity to negotiate it so low for us. So, we should consider the globally competitive rate.
Mr Kpodo 1:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe you drew our attention to the headnote of this particular clause, “Special power purchase rates”. I do not know why Dr Anthony Akoto is bringing in other things -- [Interruption.]
An Hon Member -- rose --
Mr Kpodo 1:57 p.m.
Wait, I want him to challenge. The Hon Minister talked about interest rates. He might as well talk about labour rate. Those things are not --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:57 p.m.
I have corrected him. Your name is Akoto Osei.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, our Standing Orders says he must address me by my title. That is not my name. Who is Dr Anthony Akoto? There is no Dr Anthony Akoto here. It is the Hon Minister for Monitoring and Evaluation or the Hon MP for Old Tafo. That is how he is supposed to address me here.
Mr Kpodo 1:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am really retaliating, because just a short while ago, he called me Mr Kpodo. [Laughter.] He did not refer to me as the Hon Member for Ho Central. That is why I am also giving it back to him. [Laughter.]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:57 p.m.
Retaliation cancelled across. Please proceed.
Mr Kpodo 2:07 a.m.
Mr Speaker, coming back to the issue, this clause particularly targets power purchase rate and not interest rate, labour, rent or anything else. It is on the special purchase of energy for the industry.

If we legislate it, we are subsidising it. We must think of who would pay the difference between that “globally competitive rate” and what it costs, for example, the Volta River Authority (VRA) or Karpower to generate the power.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:07 a.m.
Hon Member, your concern is noted, but I want us to be clear. What we want
to do is to offer special power purchase rates and not business competiveness.
Mr Duker 2:07 a.m.
Mr Speaker, what we seek to do is to make our iron and steel industry globally competitive. Then, at the end of the day, moving out of the power rate, we seek to make the industry globally competitive.
We have a precedence to follow, like what we did to the Volta Aluminium Company (VALCO). It has added another port to what it had because of the rates we give to them. So, that is the intent and what we seek to do.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:07 a.m.
Hon former Minister for Power, the discussion now is whether the wording of clause 22 (2) captures the intention.
Dr Kwabena Donkor 2:07 a.m.
Mr Speaker, in power generation, there is always a power mix. In other jurisdictions, they dedicate the cheapest source of power within the power mix to strategic national industries.
So, if the steel mill is strategic, and currently the cheapest generation area is Akosombo, we would have to dedicate a part of Akosombo to make it competitive. That is the global practice.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:07 a.m.
So, is “The power to be supplied to the integrated iron and steel industry shall be provided at a globally competitive
rate applicable to the iron and steel industry” the correct rendition? That is the challenge.
Dr Donkor 2:07 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the problem with the clause, “The power to be supplied to the integrated iron and steel industry shall be provided at a globally competitive rate applicable to the iron and steel industry” is the “globally competitive rate”. It should be “locally competitive rate” because we have a generation mix.
Even with hydro, the price for Bui is not the same as Akosombo. Bui power is about 10 cents or 11 cents per kilowatt hour. Akosombo generates about 3 cents to 3.5 cents per kilowatt hour, and Kpone is also different.
So, if we just say “globally competitive”, we would open up -- The competitiveness should be within our generation mix. Here, Akosombo is extremely competitive and could meet what prevails in other jurisdictions.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:07 a.m.
As I understand what we want to achieve, if Akosombo is 3 cents per kilowatt hour, but globally, power is sold to the steel industry at 1 cent per kilowatt hour, will this empower us to reduce Akosombo to 1 cent per kilowatt hour?
Dr Donkor 2:07 a.m.
Mr Speaker, factually, there is no single global price. Each country determines -- For example, the price in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) is cheaper than their normal
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:07 a.m.
Hon Members, I think now it is getting more complicated than it appears.
Let me listen to the Hon Majority Leader.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:07 a.m.
Mr Speaker, this Bill derives its strength from what we did earlier in the Integrated Aluminium Development Authority Bill, 2018. There, the construction was like this:
“The Authority shall obtain Cabinet approval for special power purchase rates from Volta River Authority or the national grids to guarantee the availability of power at an industry benchmark competition rate for activities in the integrated aluminium industry.”
That was how it was captured. On the Floor, what we did was this. We said that we should break it into two parts just as we have done here.
“The State shall guarantee the availability of power.”
So, that is in the one.
The second one then read:
“The power to be supplied to the integrated aluminium industry shall be provided at a globally competitive rate applicable to the industry”.
We have borrowed the same construction here. Ultimately, what is it intended to do? What it is intended to do is to make the industry or Corporation globally competitive. How is it to be done? Is it as we are being urged on now? I appreciated the issue raised by the Hon Member for Old Tafo when he said that we should improve it to read:
“it shall be provided at a rate that shall render the Corporation globally competitive”.
Mr Speaker, I think that it is between the two, which is what we had originally and what is being proposed now. The Hon Member for Ho Central would have to appreciate that, either way, we are talking about subventing the cost of power to the industry.
So, how best to capture it is where we are. Mr Speaker, if, indeed, we want to position this industry from the very beginning, then I would, perhaps, go for a further amendment to what we did for the aluminium industry to read:
“the power to be supplied to the Integrated Iron and Steel Industry shall be provided at a rate that shall render the Corporation globally com- petitive.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:07 a.m.
Hon member for Wa West, you raised the matter, but you have not spoken for a while.
Mr Chireh 2:07 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I raised the issue. I did not have any problem with the grammar and its logic, but my worry was that this is a new industry we will establish; therefore, if we put it in a globally competitive rate of supply of power, it cannot run.
Those who argued for subvention -- that was why I gave the VALCO example that the rate at which they bought power was far lower than anywhere else in the world.
If we want to create a new industry which was and want special rates for it, we cannot say that they should go and buy at a special industry rate. No, those industries have developed but ours is a nascent industry. There is no way that we could ask them to go --
My reason was that we are talking about the rate of power purchase and not their competitiveness after they have produced steel. It is when we give them --
That is why I said it is a special rate, and the Hon Minister for Works and Housing supported my idea. When I read a Memorandum that talks about special rate, it means that it has to be subvented. So, I am all for subvention at the initial stages for it to grow. I am not against it -- if this rendition would allow us to subvent, it should be left as it is.
Dr Donkor 2:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, there is a further complication. When we use “industry'', it goes beyond the steel mill or the rolling plant. It is either we state exactly what we want in the “definition''-- because if we say “the industry'' and they have the head office in Accra but the plant is at Yendi because that is where the iron ore is, would we say that the head office in the Accra should be that rate?
The essence is for the steel plant or the rolling mill to have a price that would make it competitive. That term “Industry'' is too expansive. So, either it is limited to “the steel plant' or “the rolling plant'' in the definition'', so that we would be clear.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:17 p.m.
It appears that by your definition there is nowhere that there is “common rate'', so the “special rate'' should be the better rendition, so that it would give us room to determine what is “special rate” in our current circumstance.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 2:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is true that there is no uniform rate across the industry, but there is a band. In the United States of America (USA), Brazil and China, for example, they have bands and that is why the term globally competitive'' is used. Clause 22 of the accompanying Memorandum to the Bill deals with Special power purchase rates'', and it says:
Dr A. A. Osei 2:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Majority Leader has offered a way forward, which addresses all of our problems. So I would yield to him to read the amendment.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we all share the principle, but how best to capture it is the difficulty. We should all agree that we want to really get this industry up and running.
Mr Speaker, I would want to propose that clause 22(2) should be further amended to read:
“The power to be supplied to the integrated iron and steel industry shall be provided at a rate that shall render the Corporation globally com- petitive''
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:17 p.m.
I agree, except that based on the suggestion made, it should be restricted to the mill so that the officers do not take rates at the same --
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, respectfully, at any mill's site, there would be officers. How do we make the distinction between the mill itself and the officers who man the mill? Once the principle is accepted, I guess we could move on.
Mr Kpodo 2:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I agree with what the Hon Minister for Monitoring and Evaluation proposed,
which was supported by the Hon Majority Leader. That renders the provision more acceptable -- it no longer fixes a special rate for the industry.
The intention of the sponsors of the Bill is to make the industry competitive, so that people can patronise it; but where we box ourselves into a special rate without even a definition at the Interpretation section of the “globally competitive rate'' there is nothing like that. From the contributions from Hon Colleagues, it appears that the rate is a mirage because it is different in USA, China and Japan.
Mr Speaker, I support the new rendition.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would want to propose a further amendment to clause 22 (1).
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 22(1), line 1, delete “ensure “and insert ‘' guarantee''.
The new rendition would be:
“The State shall guarantee the availability of power to the integrated iron and steel company''.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 22 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 23 -- Accounts and audit
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would want to make a minor correction in clause 23(1). What we have done recently is to take a leaf from the Constitution which really provides:
“The Board shall keep books, records account, returns and other documents relevant to the account in form approved by the Auditor-General.”

It is not “books of accounts”, but the “books, records, returns and other documents relevant to the account in the form approved by the Auditor- General.”
Mr Kpodo 2:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think the rendition, as it is, is a regular way of presenting this. We keep books of account. If we say that we keep books, records, returns and other documents to prepare the account —
This is how it is written in all the Acts that we have passed. We say “books of account”. This amendment the Hon Majority Leader is introducing is unconventional.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:27 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, please refer to the constitutional provision.
Dr Donkor 2:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have a serious problem with clause
23(3) —
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:27 p.m.
Let us put the Question on the clause 23(1) first.
Mr Chireh 2:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if we look at the context in which these things were used, at the end of clause 3, we have a qualification to those accounts. But before then, it is clause 2 which talks about the accounts.
So lifting it from the Constitution, the context is completely different, because, clause 2 talks about what
the books of accounts should be, and then they talk about the records.
Mr Speaker, article 187(2) of the Constitution says, and I beg to read 2:27 p.m.
“The public accounts of Ghana and all public offices, including the courts, the central and local government administrations, of the Universities and public institutions of like nature, of any public, corporation or other body or organisation established by an Act of Parliament shall be audited and reported on by the Auditor-General.
3. “For the purposes of clause (2) of this article, the Auditor- General or any person authorised or appointed for the purpose by the Auditor- General shall have access to all books, records, returns and other documents relating or relevant to those accounts.”
So if we just lift clause 3 and superimpose it on this, then the problem will arise. Because, as the Hon Member for Ho Central said, the formula has been to say that the Board shall keep books of accounts. He also knows that even the Company's Code says that we should say, “accounting records” instead of “books of account”.
But contextually, if we say, “For the purposes of clause (2)…” and then put it in a Bill that is not related to clause 2 -- And the rendition, “and other documents relating or relevant
to those accounts.” there is a problem about it.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, respectfully, this is a combination of clauses 3 and 4 of article 187. It is not only section (3) of the Constitution. If we go beyond clause 3, clause 4 provides and I beg to read:
“The public accounts of Ghana and all other persons or authorities referred to in clause (2) of this article shall be kept in such form as the Auditor- General shall approve”.
So it is a combination of clauses 3 and 4 and that is why we have decided in recent times to go the way I am proposing.
Mr Speaker, that has been the language of all the Bills that we have crafted since 2015. The Hon Member for Wa West should please not take us back.
Dr A. A. Osei 2:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I rise to support the Hon Majority Leader and that is why I asked the Hon Member for Ho Central where he has been.
The Hon Majority Leader is right. The Hon Majority Leader is pointing to what we have been doing here for the past three to four years. So, let us make progress.
That is what we have been doing so he should not say that we have not
done it. We have been doing this regularly. I know this is his second term, and that should cover 2015. So we should make progress.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:27 p.m.
So the rendition would be, “The Board shall keep books, records, returns and other documents in the form relevant to the account.”
That is where I have a problem; which account? Because we have not referred to account anywhere. “The Board shall keep books, records, returns and other documents relevant to the account in a form approved…” because we have not referred to account anywhere, relevant to the account becomes — but I think they shall keep books of account, records, returns and other document relevant to the account in the form approved by the Auditor-General, then because we have made reference to “book of account”, then “relevant to account” would be in good place.
Mr Chireh 2:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I move for further amendment. Since you cannot move for an amendment, I would agree to your suggestion and support it but I want to move a further amendment.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:27 p.m.
Hon Members, I will put the Question on the new rendition, which is, “The Board shall keep books of account, records, returns and other documents relevant to the account in a form approved by the Auditor-General.”
Question put and amendment agreed.
Dr Donkor 2:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with regard to clause 23(3), I agree that this has been the practice — The Auditor-General shall — This is the rendition my attention has been drawn to, as it is in the Constitution. But do we have a time limit where the Auditor-General — If we read the construction, the sixth month is about the auditing.
When must the report come before Parliament? I am saying this because, currently, in practice, we have a lot of issues. We still do not even have 2017 Reports of some strategic commissions provided for in similar manner being brought to Parliament.
So is it possible that we can give the Auditor-General some time limits?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:27 p.m.
Hon Member, please read the rendition out.
Dr Donkor 2:27 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the rendition says,
“The Auditor-General shall, within six months after the end of the immediately preceding financial year, audit the accounts, submit the report to Parliament and forward a copy of each of the audit report to the Minister and the Board”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:27 p.m.
He must audit and submit within the six months.
Dr Donkor 2:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, when you meet them -- and a number of them, they already have three months
to submit to the Board, then the Board has to submit to the Auditor-General who has three months to do that.

The Auditor-General, generally, cannot submit the Report to Parliament. It goes to the Minister and he submits it to Parliament.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:37 p.m.
No, Hon Member, the Auditor-General comes here directly. He has no Minister.
Dr Donkor 2:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am saying this because if we look at the Petroleum Commission and all those other Boards -- It is the Minister who is to submit to Parliament and they have not done that for so many years.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:37 p.m.
Hon Member, the Auditor-General's Reports are different from Accounts. They are two different things. The Auditor-General is independent. He does not work under any Minister, so, he comes directly to the Minister for Parliamentary Affairs to submit.
There is the failure of com- pliance and that is what we should deal with --
Yes, Hon Minister for Monitoring and Evaluation?
Dr A. A. Osei 2:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am surprised at the former Minister for Energy. He swore to defend the Constitution --
Dr Donkor 2:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have never been a Minister for Energy.
Dr A. A. Osei 2:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the former Minister for Power; he has sworn to defend the Constitution. If he does not remember, I would refer him to article 187 (5) of the Constitutiion. We are creatures of the Constitution; even if he does not like it, we have to go along. Now, he wants us to change the Constitution; that is not the way to do that.
Mr Speaker, please, I beg him. He should let us make progress.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:37 p.m.
Hon Members, I would put the Question on clause 23.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 23 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 24 to 27 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 28 -- Regulations
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:37 p.m.
Yes, Hon Member for Ho Central?
Mr Kpodo 2:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think we have been padding our laws with too many provisions. Why do we have to make clause 27 part of an Act? In my view, it is not necessary because in normal course of running business, the Corporation would be expected to do that.
I have always said that the American Constitution has only seven articles but they do a lot of things. We are putting everything that a business
should do in the law. I think we should delete clause 27.
Dr Zanetor Agyeman-Rawlings 2:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am not in favour of the deletion, simply because one of our biggest problems is the lack of cooperation between some of the State agencies and because it is not statutory, that is the way out.
Dr Donkor 2:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I agree that clause 27 should be deleted. We have listed only a few but by the nature of their work, they would be liaising with a number of organisations. Why do we list some and leave out the others?
Are we saying that by the various Acts, they only have to liaise with these ones and not the rest?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:37 p.m.
Hon Minister for Western Region?
Mr Darko-Mensah 2:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the provision says, and I beg to quote:
“The Corporation shall collaborate with the Minerals Commission, Ghana Geological Survey Authority, the Environmental Protection Agency and any other relevant public institution.”
So, it did not provide for only the three; it provided for more than the three. I believe that it is clear and we need to maintain it. It is proper because now that this has been
Mr Chireh 2:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that we have provided for this even in general terms that the institution we are creating should collaborate or cooperate with the others. But in this particular case, it is very important because the ones that we have mentioned are key to the functions of this Corporation. We did not just leave it at that, as my Hon Colleague is saying. We added “any other public institution”.
Mr Speaker, cooperation and collaboration are things that if they write to an institution and the institution refuses to respond, they could show them what the law says and they would obey. I think we should keep it.
Mr Duker 2:37 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if we look at clause 27, we are only emphasising the fact that the Minerals Commission is the regulator. As a regulator, they need that consultation.
Mr Speaker, we met on several occasions where agencies complain of lack of collaboration, so there is the need for us to legislate it to make the point cemented. So I believe it must be consolidated and we must leave it there.
Ms Safo 2:47 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I tend to disagree with the Hon Chairman of the Committee and agree with the proposal made by the Hon Kpodo to the extent that some of these things are implied; administrative and it comes with the functions that we are providing on the objects of the Corporation.
Mr Speaker, the reasons that have been proffered for legislating on this clause on collaboration is to deal with the issue of agencies that come under certain Ministries having direct interest in activities that there ought to be cooperation which in reality does not exist and this creates a lot of friction here and there.
The extent to which we are legislating does not even solve the problem, in that, we have listed some corporations that, ordinarily, and as a matter of relevance, would have to be consulted or there ought to be collaboration.
Mr Speaker, but in furtherance to that, we have stated, “and any other relevant public institutions”. So, again, we are giving discretion to whoever ought to consult or collaborate to pick and choose.
Having listed all the agencies; Environmental Protection Agency, Minerals Commission, et cetera
then, we go on to other relevant public institutions.

Mr Speaker, so in the event that one decides to consult the listed or even with the unlisted, decides to choose, we are still where we are.

Mr Speaker, I believe that it is a matter of administration. If it is relevant, this is a legislation concerning iron and steel and obviously, environmental protection comes to play since it is a mineral and therefore, the Minerals Commission --

I believe that these are implied in the functions of the Corporation; to Legislate and give further discretion, will create more problems. This is because whoever is choosing to collaborate can pick and choose which they think they want to, and it will still create problems because others will think that they ought to have been in collaboration with them.

Mr Speaker, so I believe that we ought not legislate on it. Clause 27 should be deleted.
Dr Donkor 2:47 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am very uncomfortable with the collaboration. The Minerals Commission and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) are regulators. They regulate them and they do not have to collaborate with them as they come under their direct supervision, and the law requires that anybody engaged in any mineral
activity is regulated by the Minerals Commission as well as by the EPA.
So, in my opinion, the “collaboration” there waters down the powers of the regulator.
Dr A. A. Osei 2:47 p.m.
Mr Speaker, when we were working on the Payment Systems and Services Bill, 2018, I think that we run into a similar problem. I am against legislating “Collaboration”. However, if we must, then we need to change the language.
Mr Speaker, if the Hon Chairman will agree, I would want to offer the following amendments --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:47 p.m.
We have already taken a decision on that one, but let us first agree whether we want to legislate for “collaboration” or not. Give me five minutes; I do not have support here immediately so I will suspend Sitting for five minutes and come back.
2:51 p.m. -- Sitting Suspended.
2:54 p.m. -- Sitting Resumed.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:47 p.m.
Thank you, Hon Colleagues. Who was on his feet? Hon Member for Tamale Central?
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 2:47 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just want to offer a humble suggestion. We have voted continuously so if anybody has reasons to believe that it needs a Second Consideration Stage, we should finish with what we are doing and then they can bring you back.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:47 p.m.
Well, this is the Consideration Stage so we are very flexible. If there is a case for reviewing it, let us do it but if not, let us proceed.
The point that the Hon Member for Pru East made is important. Do you collaborate with your regulator or you submit to the regulation? Which is which? Indeed, as it points out, the Minerals Commission and the EPA should be tough on the other operators. So, it is not a matter of collaboration, submitting to their authority and direction.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 2:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, having said that you were relaxing the rules, my position is that this does not spoil anything --
Many times when investors come, they do not go to the Geological Survey Department (GSD); they go to the Minerals Commission, take their permits and just start their business. What we are saying is that in this particular case, they must go there.
If we want the auto photos everywhere in this country of mineral deposits, they must go to the GSD.
However, investors are just satisfied with the permit from the Minerals Commission though the law also requires environmental permit -- any activity that impacts the environment, one needs a permit before undertaking that activity.
So, that is the regulatory power but we are saying that as and when they are exploiting their minerals, they must always work with the EPA.
This is different from the regulatory powers of the Minerals Commission and so, this is the operation of the company. Just like the Minerals Commission, after taking the permit, that does not end the regulatory powers of the Minerals Commission.

Even as they continue to work, they must always collaborate with the Minerals Commission. The Minerals Commission Act gives them the power to regulate, but we are saying that while they are working -- [Interruption.] Mr Speaker, they also need the local permit at the district assembly, where the iron ore is, to be able to exploit.

So, they need the permit. We have not listed them because they would have to apply for the permit to be able to pay for activities concerning the exploitation of the ore. So, if this is here and it does not spoil anything, then we do not have to --

Mr Speaker, we are trying to legislate to say that they cannot come and treat these regulatory authorities

with impunity but they must collaborate with them. What does it spoil? Mr Speaker, I think that where it is is fine.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:57 p.m.
In my view, the real issue is our own character. Those invested with the authority to ensure whether regulation or collaboration -- often we are too indolent and we allow people to misbehave freely even though the law gives us power so what will happen depends on who is in charge at any point in time.
The Question was put and it was agreed so I would go to clause 28.
Clause 28 -- Regulations
Mr Duker 2:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 28, redraft as fellows:
“The Minister may, by legislation instrument, make Regulations to generally provide for the effective implementation of this Act”
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 2:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the amendment should be supported but I have a difficulty. First of all, the Hon Minister and the Hon Deputy Ministers are not here. [Interruption.] When did he come? He just walked in? My good Hon Friend, I am sorry.
Mr Speaker, that is how it should read but most importantly;
Paragraph (a) is actually a function of the Corporation and it is a very important policy. Mr Speaker, I have
heard the President and I have heard other former Presidents say that the way to develop is to ensure value addition. Mr Speaker, but we have not provided that function in the functions of the Corporation.
We have said that that function should be performed by the Hon Minister, and we have given the Hon Minister a cut-off of five years that iron ore should not be exported in its raw state out of this country.
This is very important. Mr Speaker, it means that the Hon Minister must be working from day one to ensure that by the fifth year, we would process our ore.
Mr Speaker, we are saying that it is not by regulation so while supporting the amendment, I would propose that the paragraph (a) should be part of the functions of the Corporation. Mr Speaker, I have looked at the functions of the Corporation and there is nothing like that. Mr Speaker, paragraph (a) reads:
“ensure that iron ore in its natural state shall not be exported, sold or otherwise disposed of after five years from the coming into force of this Act.”
Mr Speaker, it should be sent there, but I would support that “the Minister may, by legislative instrument, make Regulations to generally provide for the effective implementation of this Act.”
Mr Speaker, thank you.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:57 p.m.
Hon Minister for Western Region.
Mr Darko-Mensah 2:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Memorandum of the Bill says that we have tried to do this project since 1976 and as at 2019, we have still not been able to do it. Mr Speaker, if you take clause 28 (a) which reads:
“ensure that iron ore in its natural state shall not be exported, sold or otherwise disposed of after five years from the coming into force of this Act.”
Mr Speaker, this is the only part of the Act that could ensure that we do not give excuses again after five years. So, I believe that we might have to keep it as paragraph (a) and we use the amendment that the Hon Chairman has proposed as paragraph (b) instead of changing the whole thing.
Mr Speaker, because this discretion cannot be given to the Corporation to start with, we could give it to the Hon Minister and that should be within five years. Mr Speaker, otherwise very soon people would be doing galamsey --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:57 p.m.
Is there any reason we would want to do that after five years? Why do we not start from now?
Mr Darko-Mensah 2:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is within five years and we could even start now. Maybe, because other people have concessions --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:57 p.m.
Because once it starts, they would find all kinds of means to continue. So, from day one, we should not give any room for --
Mr Darko-Mensah 2:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if possible, we should even make it three years but we should have --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:57 p.m.
No, we should not give any room for any export in raw form because once it starts, it cannot be stopped.
Mr Darko-Mensah 2:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe that as we did for the bauxite we could do same for this one too and that could also be five years but it should stand alone as it is.
Mr Speaker, but as for Hon Fuseini saying that it should be as powers of the corporation, I believe that is not possible because I suppose that the corporation does not manage the resource.
The resource is managed by the Ministry, therefore, we might have to keep it as it is so that -- [Interruption.] No, the bauxite is not managed by the corporation. The excavation of the manganese or iron ore could never be managed -- [Interruption.] It is the processing -- It is correct.
Mr Speaker, we might have to keep it as it is stated here so that the Hon Minister, by Regulation, could ensure that the five years is kept and then we could develop the ore into other products.
Dr Donkor 2:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would even want to further amend paragraph (a). The general practice is that if a frontier nation is producing iron ore for the first time, for any serious investor to come into the economy, then the type of iron ore should be explored on the world market for a while.
I am sure that is the rationale behind the five years, but it is not five years after mining. Mr Speaker, it is five years after coming into force of this Act. If in five years we have not mined the iron ore, then what are we saying?
Mr Speaker, so I would prefer the five years to be related to the mining activity rather than coming into force of the Act. The two are not the same.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:57 p.m.
But what is here is:
“ensure that iron ore in its natural state shall not be exported, sold or otherwise disposed of after five years from the coming into force of this Act.”
Dr Donkor 2:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Act could come into force but they would not be mining because the processes that lead to mining is a different arrangement. Mr Speaker, so if we could link the limitation to the commencement of mining rather than just the Act.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:57 p.m.
Hon Yieleh Chireh.
Mr Chireh 2:57 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I wanted to draw your attention to the fact that by this amendment they are replacing what is there wholly and that is a concern.
Mr Speaker, if they are replacing and even making sure that we do not capture paragraph (a) which was on the Order Paper, then what the Hon Ranking Member for --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:57 p.m.
Hon Member, I think that the mood of the House is that we should retain paragraph (a) and that is what we are discussing.
Mr Chireh 2:57 p.m.
All right, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, where should it be? Should it be in the body of the Act or it should be by a Regulation?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:07 p.m.
Yes, Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe it should be in the Regulation; the reason being that the iron ore in its natural state is not the preserve of the Corporation. It is a natural resource that is vested in the President.
In that case, the control over it is not in the hands of the Corporation. So, we should maintain it.
Mr Speaker, having said so, we should further amend it. To say “to ensure that iron ore in its natural state”, iron ore is the natural state of iron. So we do not need “in its natural state”. It should be:
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:07 p.m.
Very well. So we are maintaining sub paragraph (a) and probably bring the proposed amendment as paragraph (b). It is the original, anyway.
Yes, Hon Member for Tamale Central?
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 3:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, what they were seeking to do was to just remove the paragraph (a) because the formulation in the amendment is in -- The Committee deleted paragraph (a). So, when they delete paragraph (a), it would just read the way the amendment has been proposed.
If we are maintaining it, we should just say that he should abandon his amendment.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:07 p.m.
Even if he does not abandon it, you would vote against him.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 3:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, taking note of the Hon Majority Leader's further amendment
-- 3:07 p.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:07 p.m.
Hon Chairman, the mood of the House is that we maintain what is there.
Yes, Hon Dafeamekpor?
Mr Dafeamekpor 3:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity.
I am in support of the present position of the House to maintain it,
but what is critical is the point raised by Hon (Dr) Kwabena Donkor.
We must factor in the point that between the time the Act would come into force and the processes that we would initiate to undertake the actual mining. It might take some time, but that time might affect the period we are asking the Minister to ensure that we do not export the bauxite in its raw form. That is very critical. We need to factor it in, otherwise, it might escape us.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:07 p.m.
Yes, Hon Regional Minister?
Mr Darko-Mensah 3:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe that the issue he has raised was on condition that we need to sell the ore for some time to know the market before we can set a date. But we know that these days, international standards are applied everywhere. So, if we do assays and know the quality we are selling on the market, that same day, we are on.
Therefore, we do not need to go and sell to determine. When Ghana discovered oil, immediately the assays and laboratories were done, everybody knew the type of oil Ghana was selling.
If we decided to refine them in Ghana, we would have done so based on the refineries we have here. I do not think we should belabour the matter. From 1976, I do not think we need to go and mine and sell before we determine the five years.
Mr Speaker, I believe five years from the passage of this Bill is clear, and by now the Minister would have lined up a lot of investors who are ready and only waiting for this Act to work and deliver an integrated iron and steel industry.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:07 p.m.
We mine manganese and other things in this country. Do we not? Do we not know the Ghanaian quality?
Let me listen to the proposer.
Dr Donkor 3:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe the Hon Regional Minister misled the House. When we discovered oil in Ghana, it took a number of exports for Ghana crude to have a price. When we started, because Ghana crude was unknown, we were selling at a discount.
Even though it was sweet crude, it took us a while, after a number of exports, for the market to accept Ghana crude so that we could sell at the premium.
So it is not just automatic that we do an assay.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:07 p.m.
We agree on that. We have been mining manganese for some time now, and so our value is known.
Dr Donkor 3:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if it has been applicable to manganese, I would be the first to jump and support it because we have been exporting manganese for a long while. However, this is iron ore that we have not yet
mined. We do not mine iron ore in Ghana today. A company has been given the licence to do some preliminary work; we do not mine iron ore today.
If we limit it, assuming -- That company has been involved in this for over three to four years already. If we are saying five years from the passage of the Act rather from mining, I would support from mining. That is why I would want this clause to be retained. But the passage of the Act per se does not necessarily keep in mining.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 3:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, minerals are unlike crude. That is why even though crude oil is a natural resource, it is not managed by the Minerals Commission.
That is a difference. Immediately you find solid mineral, you assay it and know the quality. That is why at Atiwa, we have not yet mined the bauxite but we know the quality of bauxite.
So, even though it was discovered, we know the quality. The difficulty with crude is that the refineries are different. The catalytic machines are different, and because they are different, you need to know the type of crude before you determine the market.
Mr Speaker, I support his position. That is why we should not change the former idea of mining. We are putting the responsibility on the Minister that from day one, he must start thinking about putting up a refinery in this
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:07 p.m.
Now we would do the amendment as proposed in clause 1.
Hon Members, there is a proposed amendment by the Hon Majority Leader. Hon Chairman, deal with yours before we deal with this one.
Mr Duker 3:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I take a cue and accordingly withdraw my amendment.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:07 p.m.
There is also an amendment proposed by the Hon Majority Leader. That is to delete “in its natural state”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 28 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 29 -- Interpretation
Mr Duker 3:07 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 29, Interpretation of “Corporation”, line 1, after “Ghana” insert “Integrated”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:17 p.m.
Item numbered 7 (xii). There is an amendment proposed in the name of the Hon Chairman.
Mr Duker 3:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 29, add the following new interpretation:
“‘Guaranteed Annual Payments' means annual payments under section 24 made to the State where dividends are not declared.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:17 p.m.
The 24 is yet to be incorporated.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 3:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we first encountered the phrase “guaranteed annual payments” in clause 3 (h). We want to delete “24” and just put -- ‘“annual guaranteed payments” means annual payments -
- 3:17 p.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:17 p.m.
I think if we leave it there, it should be sufficient, because the reference is not only in clause 24. It made reference elsewhere.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Kpodo 3:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am of the view that these new clauses, which are introduced, should be first addressed before we tackle definitions emanating from them.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:17 p.m.
Do not worry, we have finished with the Interpretation. Let us do the new clauses and if we have to redefine, we will do it.
Mr Kpodo 3:17 p.m.
We are talking of dividends which is a new clause. We have not done anything about dividends, but we are now talking about --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:17 p.m.
We have already referred to it in clause 3 (h).
Dr Donkor 3:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, still on Interpretation, I am worried that the definition of “Minister” here is “Minister responsible for lands and Natural Resources” rather than “Minister responsible for Mining”. I say this because some time past in our history, we had separate Ministers for Mining and Lands.
So, if we limit the definition to “Minister responsible for Lands and Natural Resources”, and a Ministry of Mining is created again -- So, if
we would limit the definition of “Minister” to the “Minister responsible Mining”, then, it does not matter under which Ministry mining is put in the future, the law stands.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe that rather, it should refer to the “Minister responsible for Natural Resources”, not “Minister responsible for Mining”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:17 p.m.
Now, what is it? Minister responsible for Lands and Natural Resources. Do you want to delete “Land”?
Mr Chireh 3:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we have had the situation where “Mining” was added to “Energy” because of the link between the requirement of energy in mining. Also, sometimes, we have Ministry of Lands and Forestry. So, it is appropriate that we identify. I was just worried that if we say “Ministry of Natural Resources” whether it would not stretch too far to include oil.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 3:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, “natural resources” has never been defined to include oil. That is why Ministry of Energy -- [Interruption] In our country?
Some Hon Members 3:17 p.m.
Yes.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 3:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, “natural resources” has not been defined to include oil. [Interruption.] I am not talking about the Constitution. [Laughter.] That is why Ministry of Energy is in charge of our crude, and the ambit of the Minister for Lands and Natural Resources
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:17 p.m.
Hon Members, even water is part of our natural resources.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 3:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, let us leave it at “Natural Resources” because we want to harness our natural resources for the development of this country.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:17 p.m.
Let me put the Question.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:17 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, I wish to suspend the Sitting. Should we complete this or suspend?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am pleading we suspend to have further consultations on this in line with what we did at Koforidua if quickly, we can have some professional advice on this. So, we can suspend for one hour.
Mr Chireh 3:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, as for suspension in this House, even if it is for five minutes, only one person obeys the rule. On the whole, the issue of suspension for one hour becomes three or five hours. Sometimes, we want Hon Members to come for the House to adjourn and it becomes a problem.
Today, if the suspension is for one hour, please, let it be for one hour. The Hon Majority Leader has been punishing us for a long time now -- [Laughter] -- because he would just say one hour and disappear.
It is not good. Let us adjourn and take this Business tomorrow, because they have not brought any Business apart from this. The way the Majority Side punishes us is not fair.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:17 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my Hon Colleague knows that there is a tall order of Businesses for us to transact, and because we deliberately set out to do this do and try to finish today, that is why we put only this Bill on the Order Paper.
Tomorrow, we would begin the Consideration Stage of the Companies Bill, 2018, and you know how fat that one is. [Interruption.] We will start tomorrow. [Laughter.]
I thought that we would start on Wednesday, but given what we have been able to do today, I guess we should be able to begin tomorrow in earnest.
Mr Speaker, as I indicated, we need to do further consultation on this so if we can suspend and resume at
Mr First Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
Do you mean these two plus the clause on the members of the Governing Board that we deferred? We cannot finish today so let us adjourn. That is
the only Business left. Let us adjourn, take the time to do it so that when we come, we would conclude.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:27 a.m.
Very well, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:27 a.m.
That brings us to the end of the
Consideration Stage of the Ghana Iron and Steel Development Corporation Bill, 2019, for today.
Hon Members, I now proceed to adjourn the House.
ADJOURNMENT 3:27 a.m.
  • The House was adjourned at 3.28 p. m. till Tuesday, 2nd April, 2019, at 10.00 a. m.