Debates of 23 Nov 2006

MR. FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:10 a.m.
CORRECTION OF VOTES 10:10 a.m.
AND PROCEEDINGS AND 10:10 a.m.
THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:10 a.m.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Hon. Members, correction of Votes and Proceedings of 22nd November, 2006. Pages 1 . . . 6 -
Mr. Joe Kwashie Gidisu 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I was in the House yesterday, but I have been recorded as having been absent.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Fair enough, it ought to be corrected. Any other correction? Pages 7. . . 9 - In the absence of any corrections, it will of a truth be considered that what we have in hand and has been produced by the Table Office is a true reflection of what took place yesterday, 22nd November, 2006.
Hon. Members, we have a couple of Questions here with us. The hon. Minister for Fisheries, Mrs. Gladys Asmah is here with us to answer those Questions. The first one is in the name of hon. Clement Humado of Anlo. If he is ready, he should get up and ask the Questions.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 10:10 a.m.
MINISTRY OF FISHERIES 10:10 a.m.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, Act 625 states 16 very important functions of the Fisheries Commission. I would, therefore, like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the continued absence of the Commission has not adversely affected the administration and management of fisheries resources in the country for all this period?
Mrs. Asmah 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, it has not because the Fisheries Directorate, that is the implementing arm of the Ministry is working closely with the CDFMCs - the committees along the beaches that help in managing the beaches; they are working very well. But Mr. Speaker, anytime that we need the Commission people, we call them. For instance, a report was sent to Parliament which I objected to, and they are working on it before they present their report to us. Everything is working according to how it should be done; and it is working together with the Fisheries Directorate.
Mr. Humado 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, in her Answer the hon. Minister used the word “shortly”. Now that the last nomination has been received, would she in terms of months, tell us how long it will take for the Commission to be established and inaugurated?
Mrs. Asmah 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, as I said, the CV of the last nominee is yet to reach us; we have written for it. Mr. Speaker, the Ministry has been working so hard in making sure that we get these nominations. And I want to assure my hon. Colleague that as soon as we get it, it will go through
the normal processes and the Commission will be inaugurated to help us.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Fisheries Act of 2002 did not start with the formation of the Ministry of Fisheries. It was in operation in terms of activities. And one of the main objectives of the Fisheries Commission was to regulate and manage the utilization of the fishery resources of the country. For all these years, since 2002, a very important body like the Fisheries Commission, which is to, among other things, perform that function has not been put in place. Is it not a deliberate attempt on the part of the Ministry to continue to paralyze the effective running of the Commission and its functions and capture it under the Minister's portfolio?
Mrs. Asmah 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the answer is no. It is not a deliberate attempt. The Commission was dissolved in 2003 and I, as the new Minister, am making sure that the Commission is there. In the meantime, the community-based fisheries management organisations together with the Directorate are taking care of what is happening at the beaches.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minister is very much familiar with the functions of the Commission, and for her to be hiding behind the contention that all is going on well, whereas there are statutory functions for the Commission in the Act which are not being effectively done or are not being done at all — Those are the areas which will push the Act into its objectives, yet she is telling us that it is not paralyzing her work. I still want to put it to her that it is a deliberate attempt to get the situation under her armpit with - [Interruptions.] I am holding the Act, what is your reference to the Act?
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon. Member for Central Tongu, you are
1377 23 Nov. 2006 1379 Oral Answers to Questions 23 Nov. 2006 1380
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister how she reconciles the almost three, four years that the Act has been in existence, in terms of the Commission's activities which more often than not would have pushed the programmes of the Fisheries Department greater than her desk. Why that delay? And how does she justify that as not a deliberate attempt?
Mrs. Asmah 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I have just told hon. Colleagues that when I became the hon. Minister there was no Fisheries Commission. And knowing how important it is, I am trying to put it in place. And whatever difficulties we are having are in my Answer. In the meantime, all the fisheries organizations -- the NAFAG, the Inshore Fishermen, the Canoe Fishermen -- are all working together with the community-based fisheries management organizations and nothing is amiss as far as that is concerned.
I want to assure him that as soon as we get the nominees, it will go through the normal process and the Commission will be inaugurated to support the work of the Ministry, as I have said.
Mr. J. Y. Chireh 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, from the hon. Minister's Answer, I see that there is a difficulty with people responding to the request concerning the nominees. And I also assume that many of them, in fact, if not most of them are in Accra. Does she not consider sending a bearer as another way of ensuring that the deadline is obeyed and this delay checked?
Mrs. Asmah 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, my hon. Colleague may not have heard me correctly. We have sent umpteen reminders and made personal follow-ups. We get people to go to the office and demand the replies. This, we have done. And that is
why we have been able to get to where we are so far. And as I said, when we get the curriculum vitae (CV) of the last nominee, we will move forward.
Mr. John Tia 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to know from the hon. Minister whether there is any rule specifying that you must receive the entire list of representatives to the Commission before it is established. I want to know.
Mrs. Asmah 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, a job half done is no job done. We want to make sure that every institution that must serve on the Commission will be there on the day of inauguration. This is what I mean. They have to be there before the Commission is inaugurated.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon. Minister, the question was, should it be done before its inauguration? He is asking whether you should have every - [Interruptions] - Is that the question you wanted to ask?
Mr. Tia 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, you are right. I want to know whether the hon. Minister must collect the entire list, to the letter, before the Commission is established; whether there is any regulation to that. If it is not that she just wants to manipulate the activities of the Commission single- handedly, is it that she must collect the entire list to the letter?
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon. Member for Talensi, would you ask your question? If you want to ask a question, go
ahead and do not make statements.
Mrs. Asmah 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the law has specifically stipulated the institutions and organizations that must serve on the Commission. And it would be wrong on my part to allow some of them to shirk their responsibilities to the Fisheries Commission. As far as I am concerned, as the Minister, I will make sure that all of them are there before they are inaugurated.
Vessel Monitoring, Control and Surveillance System (Status)
Q. 714. Mr. Clement Kofi Humado: asked, the Minister for Fisheries what the status of the Vessel Monitoring, Control and Surveillance System proposed in the 2006 Budget to monitor fishing vessels in Ghana's territorial waters to ensure adequate fish stocks and reduce destruction of fishing gear of local artisanal fishermen.
Mrs. Asmah 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Vessel Monitoring System (VHS) which was installed and commissioned in November, 2005 at the Marine Fisheries Research Department at Tema Community 2 is fully operational. Industrial fishing vessels were fitted with transponders to ensure monitoring of their operations at sea including areas where the vessels fish.
Hitherto, some industrial trawler fleet, were fishing illegally inside the 30-metre depth line (shallow waters) using large nets with meshes less than 60 mm which scoop juvenile fishes whose habitat is shallow waters thus endangering the sustainability of the country's fish stocks.
Mr. Speaker, the gears used by the industrial trawler fleet also destroyed nets belonging to the artisanal fishermen who fish mainly at the surface of shallow waters using simple gears thereby creating more conflict. The stiff competition and extractive fishing practices significantly reduced the stocks of some species.

Industrial vessels are now fishing responsibly with less incursions into shallower waters and the resource protected as a result of the introduction of the VMS.
Mr. Humado 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, fishermen along the coastline in my constituency, the Anlo constituency, continue to complain about the destruction of fishing gears by bigger fishing vessels. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether since the formation of the Vessel Monitoring, Control and Surveillance System, any vessel has been apprehended for breach of the regulations, and whether there is any report to that effect.
Mrs. Asmah 10:20 a.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker. It has happened few times and the owners of the vessels were charged to replace the nets of the fishermen. Sometimes, we set up an arbitration board, between the fishermen and the vessel owners and they settle out of court. It has been happening and we have always settle it for them.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
We move on to the next Question and this time it is in the name of hon. Joe Gidisu, Central Tongu.

Promotion of Aquaculture in the Lower Volta Basin

Q. 826. Mr. J. K. Gidisu asked the Minister for Fisheries what was being done by the Ministry to promote aquaculture in the Lower Volta Basin.
Mrs. Asmah 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Government of Ghana and its development partners through FAO initiated the process of putting together an Aquaculture Development Strategic Framework to guide aquaculture development in Ghana. This includes that of the Lower Volta Basin area.
The Lower Volta Basin which stretches from the Akosombo Dam to the estuary at AzizanyaAda has potential for development of pond and pen fish culture. In Battor and its surrounding towns and villages, the people are already practising pen fish culture. The Ministry has carefully considered the practice and it is bringing about the needed changes to make the practice more effective and efficient. The objective is to provide a model for more fish farmers to adopt the practice.
In Akuse and Asutsuare, the local people are involved in fish pond culture. The Directorate of Fisheries conducted a training programme for the Agricultural Extension Agents (AEAs) in fish pond construction, fingerlings production, pond management and harvesting in these areas. The Directorate is therefore intensifying its technical support in the form of extension services to enhance increased fish production.
Mr. Speaker, in addition, the Ministry of Fisheries in collaboration with the Government of the state of Israel and the Freshwater Fishery Institute of Shandong, China have signed a technical co- operation Agreement to help develop aquaculture in the country. The training programme which has already been started is designed to transfer aquaculture skills and technology to our farmers. Mr. Speaker, aquaculture development is now modern science and high tech.
The Lower Volta has a high potential for aquaculture development and the Ministry will help design and implement projects through the private sector.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I wish to correct the definition for the Lower Volta Basin. With the construction of the Kpong Dam, the stretch of the Lower Volta Basin is now from the Kpong Dam and not from the Akosombo Dam. Mr. Speaker, looking at the Answer she herself gave, that Battor and its environs have started on their own in terms of the processes that are taking place there, and taking note of the capital intensive nature of aquaculture development and the environment where the Battor area is located, what has her Ministry done so far to promote the potentials that they have identified?
Mrs. Asmah 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am very happy that the people have taken this pen culture that has been introduced to them. I wish more of them would do so. In the meantime, we are trying to find some resources to help them and that is why we are signing this agreement. For instance, the Institute of Freshwater Fishery, Institute of Shandong when they finally arrive here, they would develop the fingerlings for the local farmers to grow them, and they would buy if off them. These are the things that we have done in making sure that the waters that we have in the country are put to good use.
The training programmes have also been carried out. For instance, we have trained 300 young people around the country, in the proper management of their farms. In every district, somebody has been trained there and we have divided the country into two zones, the northern zone and the southern zone. The people in the northern zone are bringing in their needs assessment. When we have a meeting with the southern zone, we would be able to get the other ones and we would be able to support them with the fingerlings and the feed. This is being put in place and we are doing it.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, one thing which I do not get very clearly from the hon. Minister is the fact that she identifies the potential of the Lower Volta Basin. With any venture, for instance cocoa production, the attention that is given to less endowed areas, like the dying cocoa producing areas in the Volta Region, is not as much as they would give to potentially endowed areas like Sefwi- Wiawso, other parts of the Western, Brong Ahafo and Ashanti Regions.
Having identified the Lower Volta Basin with a potential greater than what we may have in other areas, either in the northern zone or southern zone, how specifically can her Ministry identify with such a demonstrated potential as a contribution to a pilot scheme to promote the aquaculture in the Lower Volta Basin?
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Hon. Minister, do you want to attempt an answer to that question? Honestly I am at a loss myself as to exactly what he wants, but you can go ahead. [Interruptions.]
Mrs. Asmah 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, aquaculture was started some years ago in this country, but because the right methods were not used, the developments did not come. The Ministry has identified it as an area of wealth-creation. But it is a private sector programme; the Ministry is only facilitating it for people who are interested. Obviously, I cannot go and tell somebody to go and do fish farming. If the person is not interested, he would not do so. So we are making sure that where the potentials are, we are developing them.
We are also trying to get foreign investors to team up with Ghanaian investors, and come February next year, we are having an Aquaculture Investors Conference in the country. If my hon.
Colleague knows people who have lands with title, with about 25 years lease on them, they should attend the Conference. They would get an investor to team up with in order to make it bigger. It is completely a private sector programme; the Government is only facilitating it.
Mr. S. K. B. Manu 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, taking a cue from the difficulties that people have had in asking questions involving her Ministry, would she consider organizing a workshop on how to ask questions about her Ministry. [Interruptions.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Hon. Balado Manu, I will not allow your question. Hon. Joe Gidisu, you want to ask another supplementary question? I will give you the opportunity.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minister has just talked about national or an international conference coming on in February. I would like to find out from her — having identified the potential of the Lower Volta Basin, she is now asking me to identify the people in the area - Whether it is going to be an oral or official invitation to such an important conference, noting carefully the importance of the area she is talking about.
Mrs. Asmah 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, invitation would be given to all my hon. Colleagues here for them to come and see the responses of even Ghanaian investors to aquaculture. Mr. Speaker, it is something that we have unfortunately overlooked over the years, though this is one area where one would never lose. That was why I gave my hon. Colleagues here a tilapia lunch for them to give their attention —[Some hon. Members: “More, more”] — to it, that whenever they hear of aquaculture in their various constituencies, they should encourage their people to go into it, because it is one area where they would never lose.
1385 Oral Answers to Questions 23 Nov. 2006
Mrs. Asmah 10:40 a.m.
For instance, Mr. Speaker, if you invest ¢100 million this year, in aquaculture, next year your profit will be about ¢300,000. There is no business anywhere that you can get that kind of returns from. That is why I have been talking about aquaculture all the time. I am happy that people are engaging in aquaculture.
At the weekend I was at Dzemeni to see a new cage that has been produced for them. We are making sure that the water that we have, we put to good use. And I pray that my hon. Colleague will encourage his people to go more into aquaculture. When they need help, they should come and ask me and I will try and help them.
Dr. Kwame Ampofo 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, in the hon. Minister's Answer, she gives an impressive list of foreign collaborators like the State of Israel, Freshwater Fishery Institute of Shandong, far away in China, et cetera. But I am aware that a large capacity, in this very area, exists in this very country of ours, for example, the Water Research Institute (WRI) of the Centre for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR). I want to know from the hon. Minister how she is using the indigenous capacity that Government had spent money to develop in the country, in the scheme of things as the Answer leaves out any capacity at all in the country.
Mrs. Asmah 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I started by saying that aquaculture is now hi- tech. Yes, we are working with the Water Research Institute (WRI) — very closely with them. But these two countries that I mentioned have gone way ahead of us in
1389 Oral Answers to Questions 23 Nov. 2006 1390
Mr. Alfred K. Agbesi 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to know from the hon. Minister whether apart from the training programme that we have for the people along the Lower Volta Basin, they also have other facilities like loans which people who are
interested in aquaculture can easily access either in her office or any other source.
Mrs. Asmah 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I mentioned here that we have trained people all over the country. We have divided the country into two, the northern sector and the Southern sector. I met the northern sector about two months ago; their needs are being collated and it will be brought to us. We will not give them monies but we will give them the fingerlings and the feed which should make it easier for them. If you give somebody money, he might not give the required feed to the fish and it would reflect in their growth.
Just yesterday, we were discussing how to transport the fingerlings to the various people who have asked for them; and this is being done. We will give them the feed and the fingerlings for them to grow them; and their first harvest will put them in such a position that they themselves will move forward and do whatever they like. This is being done.
Sefwi Wiawso Fish Culture Facility
Q. 827. Mr. Evans Paul Aidoo asked the Minister for Fisheries when the fish culture facility at Sefwi Wiawso would be completed for fingerling production.
Mrs. Asmah 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Fish Farmers Association (FFA) took determined steps to construct a hatchery in Sefwi Wiawso to produce fingerlings to supply to their members and other out growers. However, due to lack of funds, work on the hatchery was suspended.
The Ministry's attention has been drawn to the potential and viability of the hatchery which should provide work and steady incomes for the fish farmers in the area. The Ministry has therefore accepted the challenge and intends to engage the services of a consultant to professionally
design the hatchery.
The Ministry of Fisheries intends to seriously look for funds to complete the project. And I must say, Mr. Speaker, that I myself have visited that area and I know what is there and would be able to correct it.
Mr. Evans Paul Aidoo 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am aware that the hon. Minister visited the area. But Mr. Speaker, is the hon. Minister not misleading this House by saying that the hatchery project is a project of the Fish Farmers Association, since I know, as a former District Chief Executive, that the project is part of the Fisheries Sub- Sector Development Project which was awarded to Messrs Alasko Construction Works in 1999?
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon. Member, your point again.
Mr. E. P. Aidoo 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to ask whether the hon. Minister is not misleading this House by saying that the hatchery project is a project of the Fish Farmers Association, since I know, as a former DCE, that that project is part of the Fisheries Sub-Sector Development Project which was awarded in 1999 to Messrs Alasko Construction Works?
Mrs. Asmah 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am surprised that my hon. Colleague who happened to be the DCE there never made sure that the contractor did what he was supposed to do. I also want to ask him why he did not do it when he was the DCE at the time? [Interruptions.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon. Minister, you are supposed to answer the question and not to ask questions. If I get him right, what he was saying was that you said it was an association's project; and he is saying it was a government project.
1391 Oral Answers to Questions 23 Nov. 2006 1392
And for what you said, according to him, you are misleading this House. Can you react to that?
Mrs. Asmah 10:40 a.m.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My information, as the Minister, is that the association took that initiative. Maybe when the DCE was there, he helped with whatever I do not know. But as far as I am concerned, Mr. Speaker, the association made the move, but it did not have the funds to do it. I have been there myself. I have inspected it and I know what has to be done; and we will do it. He should have helped them when he was there.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Your last question.
Mr. E. P. Aidoo 10:40 a.m.
Not the last, Mr. Speaker, this is my second question.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:40 a.m.
The Chair says your last question.
Mr. E. P. Aidoo 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, is the hon. Minister saying that the hatchery project which was awarded by the Regional Tender Board in 1999 has no designs?
Mrs. Asmah 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I have just said here, that aquaculture is now hi-tech, very scientific. We cannot apply that method that was started in 1999 to the present day. If we are going to construct a new pond, it must be a pond that will be able to take care of all the different species that we have in the country. We have the tilapia, we have the catfish, we have the heterotis, we have the Nile perch; we are

Mr. Speaker, there is another very lucrative fish called the barramundi which looks like the Nile perch. We must make sure that we get the technology that will be able to bring all these fishes on board because we do not intend to produce fish for local consumption only, we will be exporting as well.

Mr. Speaker, just to tell my Colleagues, fish exports in the world last year was $58 billion and if Ghana can do even just one — That is why we are setting the foundation so that we will be able to use our waters in making sure that we can also export. At the Sefwi Wiawso factory, we will be there to produce proper fingerlings, fast-growing fingerlings, which can grow faster for the farmer, so that it can be commercially viable for all of us.
Mr. Lee Ocran 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am very happy to hear from the hon. Minister the plans that she is making to resuscitate the Sefwi Wiawso hatchery. May I know from her, whether she has any further plan to resuscitate all the other abandoned hatcheries in the Western Region.
Mr. Speaker 10:50 a.m.
The hon. Member says, do you have any plans for the Western Region where I also happen to come from?
Mrs. Asmah 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to assure my hon. Colleague that everything involved with aquaculture in the country, not just Western Region, will be looked at and put to good use. As I said earlier on, it was started somewhere in the 1970s. Aquaculture became a fashion but because the right methods were not used, it did not work. And we do not want it to happen again this time, that is why we are making sure that everything we do will be up to the world's standards. And if there is any aquaculture station in his constituency, he
should let me know and we will be there to have a look at it.
Mr. S. K. B. Manu 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to know from the hon. Minister when the hatcheries hon. Lee Ocran talked about were abandoned.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Hon. Lee Ocran never talked about hatcheries in his constituency.
Mr. Pele Abuga 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minister talked about fingerlings production. What is the Ministry's policy on fingerlings production? Is it the ‘'gift'' which is accepted worldwide or the local type?
Mrs. Asmah 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, our scientists have been a bit diffident in accepting the Genetically Improved Farmed Tilapia (G.I.F.T.) We held series of meetings on this and they are saying that it is alien to our waters. As a result, after the meetings we had with them, we have now accepted it; and just yesterday I was discussing with the Committee for Inland Fisheries in Africa; they are presently at M-Plaza. And I told the World Fish Centre man that there was the need for us to have an African G.I.F.T. fish; the station should be established in Ghana and we are working on this.
Mr. Speaker, the Genetically Improved Farmed Tilapia (G.I.F.T.) is a kind of a tilapia that grows faster, 60 per cent faster than normal fish; which makes it very commercially viable. We are working on it and I will make sure, as much as I can, to bring the African G.I.F.T. fish to Ghana because we are doing well with aquaculture, as you have been told.
Alhaji Collins Dauda 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. Evans Paul Aidoo wanted to find out when the fish culture facility at Sefwi Wiawso will be completed. And in the answer offered by the Minister, she has only expressed intentions. She says that the Ministry intends to engage a consultant and also intends to look for funding for it. We want to know exactly what the Minister has done to get the project completed rather than expressing intentions.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Hon. Alhaji Dauda, the Minister's answer was very complete to the point. She says they intend to do that. It does not mean anything has been done at the moment. So what exactly do you want the Minister to say?
Alhaji Dauda 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, we want at least the Minister to tell us if she has a plan — at least indicate to us the plans she has to get the project completed. She has visited the place as she indicated, what exactly has been done?
Mrs. Asmah 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, what I saw at Sefwi Wiawso will not conform to the modern day fingerling production station; and my hon. Colleague knows it. It must be revamped and done properly. Mr. Speaker, it is only when funds are available. We have to plan for it and make sure we get the money for it before it can be done. What is there now does not conform to a modern-day fingerling production centre, but the Ministry will make sure that since we have started a very strong base for aquaculture, it will be done.
Dr. Kwame Ampofo 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to know from the hon. Minister if she can give me just three (3) completed fish culture facilities since she took over as Minister for Fisheries, just so that I can go visit them, because I am interested in this field.
1393 Oral Answers to Questions 23Nov. 2006 1394
Mrs. Asmah 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I will plead with my hon. Colleague to bring me notice and I will come and answer accordingly.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Hon. Members, that brings us to the end of Question time. Hon. Minister, thank you very much for coming to answer Questions and to explain what is happening on the fisheries front.
Hon. Members, we now move on to Statements. We have one short Statement. Yesterday, one of them was supposed to be made by hon. Kofi Ayeh of Upper Denkyira West. I understand he was taken ill yesterday so I am giving him the opportunity to do so today, if he is around.
STATEMENTS 10:50 a.m.
Mr. B. K. Ayeh (NPP — Upper Denkyira West) 10:50 a.m.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity to make a Statement on the media's role in setting and shaping the national agenda.
Mr. Speaker, as the fourth estate of the realm, the crucial role that the media play cannot be overemphasized. One cannot imagine living in a world without the media.
While the media in Ghana have been excellent in the fields of entertainment and others, when it comes to developmental issues, much needs to be done or, to use my teacher's language, “there is much room for improvement”.
The journalism profession demands the finest of minds for the high level of analysis, investigation and synthesis they strive to do. While these qualities are not
Mr. Ayeh 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the journalism
profession demands the finest of minds for the high level of analysis, investigation and synthesis they strive to do. While these qualities are not lacking in our journalists, Mr. Speaker, it is disheartening to note that some sections of the media are somehow degenerating into the negative territory of trivialities, fanning political and ethnic enmity and pursuing personal vendetta. The agenda some of them seem to be setting for the nation is brewed in mischief and perverted patriotism.
The uninitiated may wonder whether it is the national leadership of the country that is not setting the agenda or making the news and thus leaving the vacuum for the media to fill with the trivialities. However, a quick survey on how the media has treated major national issues like the Millennium Challenge Account (MCA), Ghana Poverty Reduction Strategy (GPRS), African Growth and Opportunity Act (AGOA), National Health Insurance Scheme (NHIS) and of late the National Youth Employment Programme will surely make one think otherwise.
While the electronic media have at best mentioned them in their news bulletins on the days they are signed or launched, the print media do write on them as bylines or bury them in their middle pages and afterwards confine them to the archives.
At the moment, it seems a couple of journalists and their full-time ‘'serial callers'' have assumed omniscience, commenting on any subject from the Armed Forces strategic plans through cardiovascular operation to confidential
1397 Oral Answers to Questions 23 Nov. 2006 1398
Cabinet Minutes.
The elementary distractions of professional FM radio discussions and journalists in Ghana today, who play on the illiteracy of a sizeable number of our people with nation-wrecking headlines, should not be allowed to distract our attention from the bigger pictures.
Mr. Speaker, we live in a country where it is rather the media which on a daily basis decide on what needs to be discussed in the country. All it takes to divert a whole nation's attention is for one person who has access to the media to plant a horrible story in the print media the previous night; this same person is empanelled on the electronic media the following morning to discuss or review his or her own story, open the phone lines to the public and almost the whole nation jumps on board, and sometimes for weeks, that will be the agenda for discussion everywhere.
In the circumstances of our times it becomes imperative to passionately appeal to the media to help reshape the thinking of the nation by changing the substance of the debates and talks regarding the critical issues in nation-building.
If the media could spend just about 25 per cent of the valuable airtime and space spent promoting ‘'the valentines'' and other trivial topics during ‘'drive talks'' and other programmes, on the eradication of mosquitoes for example, we would be saving our nation a lot. Mr. Speaker, one does not need to go into the havoc these little mosquitoes are causing by way of deaths and loss of man hours when all it takes to eradicate them is a sustained campaign against filthy environment.
Last week, the Government's Budget Statement for the 2007 fiscal year was
read in this august House. I therefore want to see a situation where the discussions will not continue to be done by editors of tabloids, government appointees nor totally biased opposition propagandists.
Rather, I expect to see top economists, bankers, financial experts, accomplished business executives and other ‘‘think tanks'' like the Prof. Adeis, Dodonus, the Ishmael Yamsons, the Ken Ofori Attas, the Dei-Tumis, the Sam Jonahs, et cetera digest the Budget in our media and breaking it down to the understanding of the farmer in Ayanfuri or Diaso as to the opportunities the Budget presents or how the Budget affects the truck pusher in Dunkwa or Kajetia.
Mr. Speaker, I have every confidence in the ability of the media and therefore hope they will take up this humble appeal, roll up their sleeves, rise above pettiness, spitefulness and aloofness and take up this challenge to help reshape the thinking of our nation.
Mr. Henry Ford Kamel (NDC - Buem) 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to associate myself with the Statement made by the hon. Member and I would first of all recognize the role of the media in national development. We have all come to believe and indeed across the whole world it is believed that the media have a very important role to play in national development. This is manifested in areas such as providing information to the general populace to make decisive decisions. They also give us sufficient education in terms of developments and they also provide entertainment.
Mr. Speaker, the media for some time now seems to be setting the agenda for national development. But Mr. Speaker, this is quite interesting. Sometime ago, some members of a particular political party seemed to be very, very friendly and
1399 Statements 23 Nov. 2006
Mr. Kwadjo Opare-Hammond 11 a.m.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, my hon. Colleague on the other side is making certain statements which I believe are misleading; and indeed he is trying to mislead the entire nation.
Mr. Opare-Hammond 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, specifically he is alluding to certain things which are not factual. They are factually incorrect -- [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11 a.m.
For example -- [Interruption.]
Mr. Opare-Hammond 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, he made mention of the fact that during the time of the NDC the media painted them as terrorists. Mr. Speaker, this is not right. He described that time as media terrorism.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11 a.m.
Hon. Member for Adenta, you are out of order. Resume your seat and let us continue. Hon. Member for Buem, continue with your contribution.
Mr. Kamel 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, thank you
for coming to my aid. [Laughter.] Mr. Speaker, as I was saying, it is very, very true that the media have a very important role to play insofar as our socio-economic development is concerned. We need to appreciate the role of the media and we need to appreciate exactly what they go through. But Mr. Speaker, as we sit today, I dare say that the media is dictating the national agenda, which should not be so, national agenda should be dictated by Government.

But today the media have taken over that responsibility and they seem to be pushing this nation where they want. Things that do not actually matter, people's privacy are taken on, and they become a national issue. I would want the media to concentrate on issues of environment, employment, rural/urban drift and good governance rather than drug abuse and cocaine.
Mr. Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:10 a.m.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, the issues that my hon. Colleague is raising are quite germane but then he goes on to say that he wants the media to take on hon. Members of Parliament who engage in drug-trafficking and are not representing their constituents. Mr. Speaker, there is no hon. Member of Parliament who has engaged in drug-trafficking and is not representing his constituents.
Mr. Speaker, this statement from an hon. Member is quite derogatory and it is
1401 Statements 23 Nov. 2006
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon.
Member, you have been called upon by your hon. Colleague -- that you have made a statement that tends to derogate parliamentarians and you have no factual basis to say so, that you are an hon. Member of this House but you have said so; that you must withdraw and apologise for saying so.
Mr. Kamel 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I withdraw.
But I was actually referring to an hon. Member who is alleged to have been involved in drug-trafficking.
Mr. Speaker, while taking on the
media I would also want to say that it is sad sometimes when we hear of media personnel who in the performance of their duties, are subjected to unwarranted attacks by civil society, unwarranted attacks by people who take the law into their hands and cause harm. Recently, we had news reports of some media men who were attacked somewhere in this country. I think that we ought to treat media men -- In spite of the constraints they face, and in spite of the publications that they issue, we need to appreciate the work that they do and we need to sympathise with them.
Deputy Minister for Tourism and
Diasporian Relations (Mr. Joe Baidoe- Ansah): Mr. Speaker, the media play a very important role in the development of societies, including ours. It is always said that in a democracy due to the role that the media play they help to develop a nation. Mr. Speaker, that is very true but it depends on the way the media position themselves.
Mr. Haruna Iddrisu 11:10 a.m.
On a point of
order. Mr. Speaker, I very much appreciate the contribution of the Deputy Minister, knowing that he is a media person. But he is restricting the enjoyment of the constitutional right to freedom of expression to people who are technically endowed. It is to every Ghanaian whether technically endowed or not; we are all entitled.
Mr. Baidoe-Ansah 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, when we talk about development, there are people who spend some time equipping themselves to help develop their nations, and those are the people I am talking about; that in a democracy those voices are allowed to be heard so that other people who are not technically endowed in terms of that area could take something from them and live their lives with it. But when we have a situation in a country where everything is reflective of political opinions, the country does not really benefit from that philosophy of democracy helping in terms of freedom of expression.
Mr. Speaker, what I am saying is that in Ghana when we get up in the morning, we hear something that is called newspaper review, and it is all about people with political opinions coming to explain things that sometimes are very technical. Mr. Speaker, we do not become politicians because of how we are endowed. We do not become politicians because of our level of education. We can end up as
1403 Statements 23 Nov. 2006
Mr. B. D. K. Adu 11:10 a.m.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, it seems the hon. Member is misleading the whole House. Nobody has asked journalists not to express their views but what we are saying is that the view should reflect the development of the nation, not to tear the nation apart.
Dr. Benjamin Kunbuor (NDC - Lawra/Nandom) 11:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to make my modest contribution to this rather interesting topic. I heard the maker of the Statement lament on some concerns that have been expressed over the years about the media landscape in this country.
Mr. Speaker, I have never been very comfortable with people looking at the media as a monolithic whole and that the media all move in one direction and behave in the same way. That is why I have been very careful anytime I have to make statements about the media -- to talk about segments of the media.
There are definitely segments of the media whose practice of their profession give cause for concern but we must also acknowledge that there are segments of the media that devote a lot of time to reporting on development issues.

The problem is not just one for the media and those who put out the information; it is for us the public and what we choose to read. We do not have enough time in the day to see what the media is saying so if you choose to go and get yourself involved in the politically- exciting reportage, definitely your perception of the media will be what is purely political.

But for those of us who are very interested in finding out what Public Agenda says, almost in every edition, about rural development, about local level development, about the concerns of the prime members of the community, you will find a lot of sanctuary and you will find that the media really has the potential to contribute to national development.

For the so-called political class,

whether they are in office or out of office, it is interesting that they are the ones that are complaining. There is no single media man who writes about a politician when that information has not been given by another politician. So when you get involved in your political conflict and you think the easiest way to get voice is to carry it to the media, it becomes difficult and it does not lie in your mouth to turn round and complain. I have had contact with a number of media people and sometimes you ask them why they spend so much energy just to vilify an individual and they tell you that well, it is another politician who thinks that this is a very important matter and that we must put it in the public domain.

So possibly, if we are concerned about what the media is doing in terms of our political life, perhaps we ourselves are to

1405 Statements 23 Nov. 2006
Minister for Justice (Mr. Kwame Osei- Prempeh) 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I believe that the maker of this Statement has made a very important Statement which needs to be looked at in that light. Mr. Speaker, listening to him, he never clamoured for the clampdown of any media house. Looking at where he comes from, he believes in media freedom.
What he is urging is responsibility and it is interesting that an hon. Member who spoke at length referred to the Public Agenda and what they write about -- rural development, environment and other things. How many times does anybody listen to Adom FM, Peace FM or any of the major radio stations and hear them reviewing the environment section of the Public Agenda or the rural development section of the Public Agenda? It never comes in; what comes in are the political issues which are sensationalized and this is what the hon. Member who made the Statement is talking about.
Sometimes, most of us feel worried that some of these issues are very important - domestic violence against women and children are things which need to be looked at; the poor and deprived people being lynched - these are things which will help society grow. And we believe that it is high time the media, especially the electronic media turned their attention there so that when they review the newspapers, they look at everything and not just the sensational ones.
With a comment from my Friend, hon.
Dr. Kunbuor, if you go to any jurisdiction -- If you go to Italy, Bellascony controls more than sixty per cent of the media landscape; he is a politician. And if you go take any newspaper from his side, you will know what it stands for. If you go to the United Kingdom (UK), if you take the Daily Mail you will know what - The Daily Mail, no matter what, they take a stand against the Labour Party. Take the Daily Mirror or The Sun, take The Telegraph or the Observer and you will see that they will always have a line.
But what they do is that there is objectivity. There is nothing wrong with the newspaper identifying that this is our editorial policy. You will not find Daily Mail of London writing to praise the Labour Government no matter what it does. Or take the Washington Post, it has a certain line and it will tow it no matter what. That is it, provided it does not offend the sense of society. Nobody has the right to say that.
Mr. Speaker, that is different from here when a newspaper says it is a political newspaper and writes stinking words about the President of the nation, that is what is abominable, abhorable and which every decent member of society, including Members of Parliament must object to -- Because if you take a newspaper and it insults the President, enters his bedroom and says things which are unprintable, things that by my training and my upbringing I will find it difficult to mention, this is what will destroy the society.

Mr. Speaker, it is strange that people who support these newspapers printing these abominable things stand on the floor

of Parliament and try to play ‘holier than thou', putting a garb of sanctimonious appearance for society; it does not help anybody. [Hear! Hear!] Mr. Speaker, we as apostles of - [Interruption.]
Dr. Kunbuor 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, our hon.
Colleague has made an equally serious statement, that Members of Parliament or who are behind the newspaper which churn out disturbing reportage come and stand on the floor of the House and play “holier than thou” -- Can he substantiate such a claim?
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Hon.
Kunbuor, you are out of order.
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, he
who the cap fits must wear it. [Hear! Hear!] Mr. Speaker, to sum up I am saying that the hon. Member has made a very important Statement. Let us all as leaders of this country learn lessons; there is no need pontificating about what happened in Rwanda and led to the war and still deep behind the scenes pop up things which would destroy the society. [Hear! Hear!]
Mr. Lee Ocran (NDC - Jomoro) 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin my contribution with a quote from Osagyefo Dr. Kwame Nkrumah. He said the power of the media to do good is great, but its ability to invoke the worse emotions in man is even more tremendous.
Mr. Speaker, every nation gets the media that it deserves; if you sow the wind, you will reap the whirlwind. We live in a country where we thrive on sensationalism. Recently a radio station announced that some sexual escapade had taken place somewhere. Thousands of people rushed to the police station; the following day a newspaper published the story with cartoons and it sold thousands whilst newspapers that reported on the
1409 Statements 23Nov. 2006
Mr. Lee Ocran (NDC - Jomoro) 11:30 a.m.
environment, or rural development were not selling. What do you expect the media to do? They will always write the stories that sell.
Mr. Speaker, you take a newspaper in the morning, you hear the story and you know which newspaper the story is coming from. You would not even hear the name of the newspaper but you can speculate where the story is coming from. That is the type of media that we have in this country. There were times when newspapers would write and you would be bent on going to buy to read and enrich your mind. These days we have sections of the media whose business is to misinform and disorient the people.
Where is the hon. Kwamena Bartels? He is the Minister responsible for the media and orientating the people. Yes, there are some newspapers whose business it is -- they come from all sides of the political divide. They write stories that are abominable and yet they do it and we are all happy instead of putting a stop to it.

Mr. Speaker, it is a good Statement that

my hon. Friend made, but it behoves all of us as politicians not to be encouraging people to be misinforming us, or to be creating tension in our society. We have to advise those who are our friends, who are in the media and are doing these things so that we can all live in peace. We want

the country to progress, we want our districts to progress, and we want our constituencies to progress.

We as Members of Parliament would like to know what is happening in our constituencies. We cannot be there all the time; it is the media that will let us know the hopes and aspirations of the people there. But if we are only to know who sold the cutlass, who did this, who did that -- Some people have stopped buying newspapers because they do not want to believe in what they read, but we must believe in what we read.

So Mr. Speaker, I thank the maker of the Statement and I hope that his colleagues and the rest of us would take a cue from the sentiments expressed so that from now on the media, who may be present here, would also learn from what the people are saying.

Mr. Joe Kingsley Hackman (NPP -

Gomoa West): Mr. Speaker, I also rise to associate myself with the Statement made by my hon. Colleague. One would not be surprised just to read that all efforts to reach Mr. So and So proved futile. As soon as you read this, you start noticing that there is somebody trying to play mischief. I think the media should be properly regulated as a professional body whereby one's licence can be withdrawn just like the medical officer, an engineer or a pharmacist so that those media men who do not comply with the ethics of the profession would be out of the scene.

With these few comments I congratulate my hon. Colleague for bringing this matter up.

Alhaji Collins Dauda (NDC - Asutifi

South): Mr. Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to associate myself with the Statement. Mr. Speaker, indeed, this Statement is one of the most

useful Statements that have been made on this floor and I would just touch on one or two issues.

Clearly the role of the media is a very important one when we look at the growth and development of our country; to be able to achieve those we need the media as an important player.

But for the media to be able to ensure their watchdog role on Government, it is important that they position themselves in a way that they can put Government on its toe to be able to ensure growth and development in the country.

But Mr. Speaker, I doubt if our media houses and journalists even know or have access to the manifesto with which a political party won elections and formed the government. Mr. Speaker, if media houses can have the manifesto of, for instance, the New Patriotic Party (NPP) Government and read what is contained in the manifesto with which the party campaigned and won elections, that is the way that the media and for that matter journalists would be able to hold Government accountable. If that is not done then I have my doubts how the media would be able to play an effective watchdog role in ensuring that Government performs.

Mr. Speaker, that aside, it is also important that the media ensures fair reportage or fair coverage. In recent times, you would find that on regular basis Government arranges for Ministers of State to address the public using the “Meet-the-Press” series. It is a very beautiful way of explaining issues from the perspective of Government and on such occasions you would see the number of media houses that would be present to cover and to kind of explain and promote the issues raised by Government.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Hon.
Deputy Minister, are you on a point of order?
Dr. A. A. Osei 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I thought
Ghana only has one Government, I did not know we have an alternative government. Is there an alternative government in Ghana? [Interruptions.] Mr. Speaker, I need to be advised. There is one government in Ghana; he is talking about an alternative government, may I know which alternative government - [Interruptions.] Mr. Speaker, nowhere in the Constitution does it talk about alternative government. It is unconstitutional. [Interruptions.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Somebody
has said that they consider themselves as a government-in-waiting.
Dr. A. A.Osei 11:30 a.m.
Opposition?
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Yes.
Dr. A. A. Osei 11:30 a.m.
That is what we know, not alternative government. Mr. Speaker, he should withdraw.
Alhaji Dauda 11:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, we do not have an opposition and this morning I do not want to engage myself in an argument with my good Friend because I stand to lose when we go outside the Chamber. [Laughter.] I will not engage him this morning; no matter how provocative he may be I will avoid him.
Mr. Speaker, what I am trying to say is that I think it would be fair when we in the Minority also organize press conferences to let people know our perspective on some issues and the coverage that the media would offer us must be similar to
1413 Statements 23 Nov. 2006 1415 Statements 23Nov. 2006
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
And lastly
the hon. Member for Okere.
Mr. B. D. K. Adu (NPP - Okere) 11:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to add to the Statement on the floor. Mr. Speaker, the press should not take it as if the House is castigating them; rather the House is trying to help them do their work better.
Mr. Speaker, I have one point I want to make and that is about us, Members of the House who do have opportunities to be at radio stations. And it is very important that the choice of words -- We should be mindful of words we use on radio because whatever we say reflects on the House and it goes a long way to destabilise smooth development of our nation. This said, I also want to appeal to all Ghanaians who have opportunities to phone in to contribute that we should know how to use words. We are a disciplined people and as disciplined people we should know and be mindful of the words we use in public.
Mr. Speaker, with this I support the Statement on the floor.
Mr. Isaac K. Asiamah (NPP - Atwima
Mponua): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for this wonderful opportunity. Mr. Speaker, first of all I thank the maker of this great Statement. Mr. Speaker, I think the importance of the media in a democracy
has been well highlighted by my other hon. Colleagues. Mr. Speaker, I think media accountability and responsibility should not only be placed at the doorstep of only the state media but all the private media houses as well.
Mr. Speaker, even in this very House I think one would witness that some of the media houses and television stations most often highlight on a few and certain key Members of Parliament (MPs) in the House.
Mr. Speaker, it is not that some other Members of Parliament do not contribute. Mr. Speaker, if you are talking of fairness and objectivity, I think it is clear that since we serve all constituencies in this country, others who also contribute are highlighted. It is ironical that sometimes some Members of Parliament lose their seats because of the attack on them that they do not contribute in Parliament. Mr. Speaker, others contribute well; they talk, but then because of the interest of a few media houses they would want to highlight the contributions of these Members of Parliament.
Mr. Speaker, I think if you are talking of fairness and objectivity, we should be fair to each and every Member of Parliament; that is very important and I must stress it. A few television stations that I personally have observed -- They must be fair to each and every Member of Parliament in this House.
Mr. Speaker, another key point that I want to raise is about the fact that the missing link in our reportage is the fact that we tend to over-concentrate on issues that pertain only in our cities and major towns. Mr. Speaker, go to most of our rural communities -- I come from a rural community -- and day in day out certain
important things are happening. Why do we not also concentrate on these areas?

Fine, he is a general secretary but you do not expect him to go and beat him. That is why some political parties have special committees; and they are the chairpersons. Why do we not identify these key individuals who are experts in their own right so that they can contribute meaningfully? Mr. Speaker, the damage we may cause to our democracy is to misinform and to miseducate the public. And that is why people that we call -- Because if you look at the political parties, clearly before they even compose committees, they would look at the individual expertise.

So why do we not, if it is on health, call a particular chairperson on that committee to speak on that? Even in this House, clearly sometimes we do not even know the kind of person we should speak to. But in this House clearly we have various committees; we have people who work on the various committees and the selection of these committees, Mr. Speaker, is not done by chance.

The selection of members to these committees is not done by chance. Most
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
I gave you a minute and you should be landing by now.
Mr. Asiamah 11:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, we should really identify some of these loopholes in media reportage so that Ghana will benefit, children coming up will benefit so that we do not pollute the nation.
Mr. Speaker, with this few words, I thank you for the opportunity.
Mr. A. K. Agbesi (NDC - Ashaiman) 11:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I will be quite brief and I will start by referring to article 162 of the Constitution which is on the freedom and responsibility of the media.
Mr. Speaker, I think what we need is much education of the media on their responsibility, as has been enshrined in the Constitution. It appears to me that what the Constitution says in article 162 (5), that,
“All agencies of the mass media shall, at all times, be free to uphold the principles, provisions and objectives of this Constitution, and shall uphold the responsibility and accountability of the Government to the people of Ghana”. --
We have a Government in place. The Government has a responsibility to see to the needs of the people. The media also have a responsibility to bring what Government is doing to the attention of the people. I believe that if the media take this as a very serious responsibility and do that, what we are seeing and hearing about
1417 Statements 23 Nov. 2006 1419 Statements 23 Nov. 2006
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Hon. Members, that brings us to the end of Statements. Now, we move on to Public Business.
PAPERS 11:40 a.m.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Item 6
-- Minister for Finance and Economic Planning.
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 11:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, may I seek your permission for the Deputy Minister to act.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
I can
see hon. Appiah-Ofori on his feet. Please, do you have something to say?
Mr. P. C. Appiah-Ofori 11:50 a.m.
Mr.
Speaker, I would like to appeal to you to allow a Second Consideration Stage of the National Lotto Bill so that I will be able to move an amendment.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
I think
your procedure is wrong. You need to move a motion to that effect.
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 11:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
beg to move, that the National Lotto Bill be taken through a Second Consideration Stage so that I will be able to propose an amendment in respect of clause 2.
Dr. A. A. Osei 11:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to
second the motion.
Question put and motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
BILLS - SECOND 11:50 a.m.
Mr. P. C. Appiah-Ofori 11:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
my advertised amendment was wrongly quoted so I would like to make a correction before I move it. It is not clause 14 but rather clause 2, subclause (4) of the National Lotto Bill.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 2,
subclause (4), delete.
Mr. Speaker, anytime we are passing a law in this House we must make sure that we do not create opportunity for people to perpetrate fraud against the State in future.
Mr. Speaker, the purpose of this Bill is to ensure that only the Government operates lotto in the country. But clause 2(4) creates an opportunity for the Service, which has now been named Authority, to operate with other people to do the same business which is now forbidden. Before one would be aware, Mr. Speaker, somebody somewhere might have formed his own business of lotto and had got the
Service to support it, to operate it, to deny the country the much needed revenue. Mr. Speaker, let me read exactly what the provision says:
“The Service may, in consultation with the Minister, operate any other game of chance or enter into collaboration, partnership or joint venture with any person, society, association or corporate entity, to operate a game of chance . . .”
I will not be surprised that one day, somebody somewhere will conspire with the authorities of the National Lotto or whatever name they would give themselves, to have their own, another lotto business; and when this happens then we will see that the purpose of this Bill, which is to make sure that it is only the Government that can operate lotto business, will be defeated. So I am saying that this provision should be deleted completely in order that no opportunity is given to anybody.
Mr. S. K. B. Manu 11:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I rise
Dr. A. A. Osei 11:50 a.m.
On a point of order.
Mr. Speaker, we are not passing a Bill which seeks to make the Authority the only operator; that is not what the law is about. So he is misleading the House. We have gone through the Second Reading, and that is not the law that we are trying to pass. At the wholesale level, it is the
only person, not at the retail level; so why should he make that statement? Mr. Speaker, it appears that he was not around when we were going through this law.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Allow
him to land, this is the way he perceives it.
Mr. Manu 11:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I was going
to be proved to, that I was out of touch with the Bill. But if it is accepted that at the wholesale level, it is Government alone who is to operate -- and this has been said by the Deputy Finance Minister -- then hon. Balado is very right to say that we are making a law for Government alone to operate lotto at the wholesale level. Perhaps, I did not add that one, which I now add. Therefore, we should not leave holes for others to capitalize on and also operate at the wholesale level. So I strongly support the amendment and urge the House to vote massively for the amendment.
Mr. Agyei-Addo 11:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
believe that there is some misunderstanding here. What we are seeking to achieve by this Bill is to have one authority. That authority would have all the machines and would be the only body that does the draw; all others would be marketing companies.
But what this subclause (4) is saying is that if anybody or institution has any ideas for a lotto or a lottery, it should come to the Authority and then the Authority, if it sees that as a viable venture, would go into partnership; they would still do the draw and not the body that has brought up the new ideas. So what hon. P. C. Appiah- Ofori is saying is completely different. I think he does not really understand the whole issue.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Well,
‘cry your own cry'. He has proposed his amendment and he has canvassed for it; if you support it, fair enough.
1421 Statements 23 Nov. 2006 1423 23 Nov. 2006 1424
1425 National Lotto Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage 1426
Mr. Kwame Osei-Prempeh noon
Mr. Speaker, I believe the amendment should be voted against. Mr. Speaker, the sense in that section is that, assuming that Ghana Football Authority (GFA) decides to organize football lotto in Ghana, they cannot organize ‘lotto' and ‘draw'. What they have to do is to team up with the Authority for the conduct of football lotto in Ghana. In that case, it would still be the Authority which can organize the draw because the existing law allows only the Authority to organize the draws, but it will be football lotto. What it is saying there is that they may enter into an agreement and share the proceeds, except that when there are losses they would not be passed on to the State.
Mr. Speaker, I believe there is nothing there in that section which defeats the purpose of the Bill and therefore the amendment ought to be rejected.
Dr. A. A. Osei noon
Mr. Speaker, I rise
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker noon
Hon.
Appiah-Ofori, are you on a point of order yourself?
Mr. Appiah-Ofori noon
Yes, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, my younger Brother and junior is grossly misleading the House.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker noon
I
understand you very well; we are debating your amendment.
Dr. A. A. Osei noon
Mr. Speaker, my senior
Brother was concerned about us trying to plug a hole and then somebody coming from behind. Mr. Speaker, if he reads clause 4 carefully he would realise that it states, and with your permission if I may quote: “in accordance with existing law”. So there is no way any collaboration can be outside existing law; and existing laws, as my very competent Vice Chairman said, bars anybody from going to the wholesale level. The existing law would allow them to go to the retail level.
In any case, the relevant concern he has, can be very well accommodated with a slight change in the language. The “may” is placed wrongly. If the “may”, Mr. Speaker, is placed properly after “Minister”, it achieves the purpose for which he wanted to delete it. I thought that if he had consulted, we would have agreed on the proper thing rather than going against our gentleman's agreement.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker noon
So hon.
Deputy Minister, what is your position?
Dr. A. A. Osei noon
My position is that
I am asking my hon. senior Colleague that if he would take this amendment to - [Interruption.] The “may” should come after “Minister” so that it would read: “The Service in consultation with the Minister may operate” -- Then I think it would achieve the purpose, At least there would be -
Mr. First Deputy Speaker noon
Chairman
of the Committee, what do you say to that?
Dr. A. A. Osei noon
The “shall” applies
Mr. First Deputy Speaker noon
It is the
same, so what is the position? Do you agree to that, hon. Appiah-Ofori?
Mr. Appiah-Ofori noon
Mr. Speaker, I have
moved my amendment and I want you to put it to a vote. If I lose, I lose.
Alhaji Sumani Abukari noon
Mr. Speaker,
I have looked at the subclause very carefully and I think that maybe if we were to substitute “Authority” in the place of the “Minister”; hon. Appiah-Ofori's concerns
would be addressed.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker noon
No, he has
moved his amendment; do you support his proposed amendment or not? Let us put the Question on that. If you do not support it and you want to come out with your own -
Alhaji Abukari noon
Mr. Speaker, this is
another amendment to his amendment -- the clause he is amending.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker noon
First of all let us deal with his and if you want to come out with a new clause, fine. At the moment we are - [Interruption.]
Alhaji Abukari noon
Mr. Speaker, I believe
that if you allow me to state my position he would go with me. Mr. Speaker, I am saying that the subclause should read like this:
“The Service may in consultation with the Authority operate any other game of chance or enter into collaboration …”
Mr. Agyei-Addo noon
Mr. Speaker, I
think my senior Brother is misleading this House. He is creating the impression that there is a Service which is different from the Authority, but we have said that wherever you see “Service”, assume it is “Authority”. So I do not know where he is coming from.
Alhaji Abukari noon
Mr. Speaker, I think
the hon. Deputy Chairman is completely confused. What I am saying is exactly the
1427 National Lotto Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage 1428
Mr. Sallas-Mensah noon
Mr. Speaker, all
we are trying to do is to take any political interference out of this Bill.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker noon
I think you
are speaking at cross -purposes.
Mr. Sallas-Mensah noon
Mr. Speaker, I
am speaking in support of the amendment being moved by the hon. Member for Tamale North.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker noon
There is already on the floor an amendment to amend the subclause -- to completely delete it. Now, you either change a few words if you want to do that, or you agree for his amendment to go through or not. What you are bringing up is a completely new suggestion.
Mr. Sallas-Mensah noon
It looks like it has
been agreed on by the hon. Member who moved the amendment.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker noon
He has
not done that. Hon. Appiah-Ofori says he is going through with his proposed amendment, unless I am wrong. Hon. Appiah-Ofori, what is the position?
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
stand by my position.
Question put and amendment negatived.
Clause 54 - Internal Auditor .

Nii Adu Mante: Mr. Speaker, I will take this opportunity to propose an amendment to clause 54 of the Lotto Bill.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Hon. Chairman, are you proposing an
amendment to clause 24 or clause 54?
Nii Adu Mante: Clause 54 of the Lotto Bill.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Fair enough, what is your amendment?
Nii Adu Mante: Mr. Speaker, clause 54, subclause (1), the word “service” in line 2, delete -- Mr. Speaker, I am sorry. I may want to substitute - we are deleting subclause (1) of clause 54 and substituting same with the following -
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Hold on. You are going to subclause (1) or sub- clause (2)?
Nii Adu Mante: Subclause (1) of clause 54.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Instead of (2)?
Nii Adu Mante: That is so.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
All right, hon. Chairman, what do you propose?
Nii Adu Mante: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move clause 54, subclause (1), delete and substitute the following:
“The President shall in accordance with article 195 of the Constitution appoint a Chief Internal Auditor for the Authority.”
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
So the word “authority” is what you wanted to change. I had thought that we had earlier on talked about any occurrence of “service” being replaced with “authority”; and we had agreed on that. So what was the purpose of coming out?
Nii Adu Mante: For clarity's sake, Mr. Speaker. We have previously, as you rightly said, stated so. But I am saying this for emphasis. Now Mr. Speaker, clause
55, subclause (1). I am sorry --
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Now the appointing authority should be the President, is that not what you have come out with?
Nii Adu Mante: Yes.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Very
good. That is, the appointing authority of the audit body should be the President instead of the Lotto Authority.
Mr. Haruna Iddrisu 12:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Chairman of the Committee appears to be wasting the time of this House. We, from page 11, agreed and it was approved by this House that “service” shall be substituted with “authority” and it shall have consequential effect wherever it is. He is no longer making any substitution other than saying that to substitute “authority” for “service”. And he is proceeding - [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
I am told that earlier on there had been an amendment of the appointing authority to be the Authority. Now, he is going back to say that the appointing authority instead of being the Authority itself should be the President. And that is the amendment he is coming up with. Am I following you exactly?
Nii Adu Mante: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Very well.
Mr. Sallas-Mensah 12:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to find out from the Chairman which position he is talking about? He was talking about Chief Internal Auditor, is it not? Yes, but how can the President appoint the Chief Internal Auditor?
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
The
Internal Auditor.
Mr. Sallas-Mensah 12:10 p.m.
The Internal Auditor, how can the President do that? This is a management function.
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the President has no business appointing the Chief Internal Auditor - [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Hon. Chairman of the Committee, what exactly do you mean? Hon. Member for Wa West, do you agree with that?
Mr. J. Y. Chireh 12:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the amendment is in order because in article 195 the President is the appointing authority but he can also delegate to any officer. So there is nothing wrong with it. We have passed laws here where this has been copiously repeated. So I will urge this House to support the amendment.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Hon. Members, on that score then I will put the Question.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 54 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Nii Adu Mante: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move clause 55, subclause (1), delete and substitute --
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
What you are proposing is that subclause (1) should be deleted and in its stead a new subclause be inserted. Is that what you are saying?
Nii Adu Mante: That is so.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
What is the rendition?
Nii Adu Mante: However, in line 3 of the proposed amendment, I have a small
1429 National Lotto Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage 1430 1431 National Lotto Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage 1432

correction to make there -- the deletion of the words “for the service” as we find after “appoint”. So that it may read as follows:
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
So the words “for the” should be deleted?
Nii Adu Mante: “For the service” should be taken out.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Which words are you deleting?
Nii Adu Mante: The words “for the service” in line 3, after “appoint”.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Read it now; let me hear it.
Nii Adu Mante: So the new rendition will be:
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
There is no “service” or the authority -
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 12:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think it should end with “the authority”. It should end with, “for the proper and effective performance of the functions of the authority”.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Hon. Member for Tema West, I did not hear you.
Mr. Haruna Iddrisu 12:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I support the amendment but with a slight further amendment, if I get leave you to do it. I think it should read: “The President shall, in accordance with article 195 of the Constitution, appoint officers and other members of staff for the Authority.” There is no need to repeat “for the effective performance…” In the opening words of the Bill, already, we have said that this Act is for this purpose. So it should end at “for the authority” so that the President appoints all those people - [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
The rendition is more elegant; you do not need to go on repeating all that. Chairman of the Committee, do you agree to that?
Nii Adu Mante: Mr. Speaker, what we intended doing was to lift what was in the Constitution. So if hon. Members are agreed with the fact that it should end at “the staff that are necessary”, fine. It captures the same sense when we come back to the Constitution.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
It does. But what he is proposing is more elegant.
Nii Adu Mante: This is what I am
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
I am
asking for your own opinion, what do you say to that? You do not object to that?
Nii Adu Mante: I have no objection.
Question put and amendment agreed
to.
Clause 55 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 59 - Tax exemption Nii Adu Mante: Mr. Speaker, I beg to
move, that clause 59, delete. Clause 59 reads as follows:
“The Service is exempted from the payment of taxes in respect of its operations.”
Mr. Speaker, this Authority is going to have a character of a commercial entity and cannot be exempt from paying taxes or for that matter value added tax (VAT). So we think that the clause should be deleted entirely.
Mr. Haruna Iddrisu 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
beg to support the proposed amendment. In fact, those of us who have looked at the Budget Statement, know that the Government anticipates some ¢0.1 trillion as revenue to emanate from the National Lotto Authority. So it is right to delete the tax exemption being granted them.
Mr. P. C. Appiah-Ofori 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I oppose the amendment.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
You
oppose the amendment?
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:20 p.m.
Exactly.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Fair enough, what do you say to that?
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, if it is an Authority exclusively owned by the Government, its profits belong to the Government. If it is a private company, then there is going to be appropriation where the Government is going to take part of it by way of profit. But the entire profit
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Hon. Member for Asikuma-Odoben-Brakwa, you remember that that clause 2 you had wanted to be completely deleted. I am not taking part in the debate, but I want to draw your attention to that. Assuming that the Authority allows some other company or individual to do business with it, are you saying that whatever profits accrue to the other partner of the Authority who will undertake that business, will not be subject to taxation?
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it appears you have misconstrued the whole principle. If the Government is the sole owner of the business and so when you tax it, it goes into the Consolidated Fund, then what is the need for taxing what will go back to the Consolidated Fund?
Dr. A. A. Osei 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, today, I am very surprised at my hon. Senior Colleague. He is a lawyer and I think an accountant by profession, but for the sake of simplicity he wants to avoid proper legal accounting rules and regulations. Mr. Speaker, the VAT Act of 1998, Act 546 as amended under section 57 reads as follows:
“Any national, regional, local or other authority or body which carries any business activity which makes it registrable as a taxable person shall apply for registration.”
Mr. Speaker, there is a principle to ensure that all Ministries, Departments and Agencies (MDAs) are treated on equal basis. The fact that it comes in here and
1433 National Lotto Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage 1434 1435 National Lotto Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage 1436
Mr. Sallas-Mensah 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the
tax exemption talked about in clause 59 of this Bill, is assumed to be corporate tax and one does not expect a company which is owned wholly by the Government to pay corporate tax.
Dr. A. A. Osei 12:20 p.m.
The language is there. It is not corporate tax - [Interruption]
Mr. Sallas-Mensah 12:20 p.m.
Then the proper
language should be captured in the Bill.
Dr. A. A. Osei 12:20 p.m.
Hold on. The issue here is that we are deleting that clause so that it becomes taxable. We are not trying to give them any tax exemption for corporate taxes. That is not the intent.
Mr. Chireh 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think that
the amendment they are proposing is not correct. This is because I have never seen an Authority going to pay tax: pay tax to whom and about what?
If we know that the National Lotto
Authority is the one to print and sell coupons and its sole source of income is from the sale of coupons, what is it going to pay the tax on? Look, other national institutions do not pay this kind of tax. Unless they just want to create more bureaucracy for people to be employed. There is no reason why we should amend this clause. For the first time, I vehemently oppose the amendment and support my hon. Friend, hon. P. C. Appiah-Ofori.
Alhaji Sumani Abukari 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I am going to take the House back to the Memorandum of the Bill. I am going to read the first two paragraphs -
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Briefly,
please. This is the Second Consideration Stage.
Alhaji Abukari 12:20 p.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker.
“The purpose of the Bill is to revise the law regulating the operation of National Lotto and restructure the National Lotteries Department so as to generate more revenue for the State.
Lotteries throughout the world have been used to generate revenue for national development and more particularly used as a means to finance social projects.”
Alhaji Abukari 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, this
clearly tells us that this Authority is meant to generate money for the State. Whatever profit it generates, goes into the Consolidated Fund. So Mr. Speaker, I do not see why anybody should afterwards say that the same Authority should be taxed. My point is that I am opposed to the amendment entirely.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Hon.
Member, so what difference does it make if it says that we should pay tax?
Alhaji Abukari 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it does
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Do you
have a point of order?
Dr. A. A. Osei 12:20 p.m.
Yes. Mr. Speaker, he
is misleading the House.
Alhaji Abukari 12:20 p.m.
I am not misleading
the House.
Dr. A. A. Osei 12:20 p.m.
The notion that if you
are taxed, you will not make revenue is never heard of in any country.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
No, he
has not said so. I do not think he has made such a statement.
Dr. A. A. Osei 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, his
statement was that the object is to make revenue and so if we are asking them to pay taxes, they will not make revenue - that is misleading.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
He did
not say so.
Dr. A. A. Osei 12:20 p.m.
But that is the
implication of what he said.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
He did not
say so. So please take your seat.
Dr. Kunbuor 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think that
this debate about the exemption seems to be a technical one.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
It is a
technical one?
Dr. Kunbuor 12:20 p.m.
It is because they have
put it in the Bill, that is why they are having the difficulty. Legally speaking, you cannot exempt anybody from tax under this Bill. One has to amend section 10 of Act 592, where all the exemptions of various bodies are contained in. So one can pass this Bill but because one wants to exempt them, one has to go and bring an amendment of section 10 of Act 592. That is how one can deal with it.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
So what
is the point?
Dr. Kunbuor 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, why I am
saying that is that we have a parent Act under which exemptions are put. This is not a taxing statute. One cannot use this statute as a basis of exemption. One cannot.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
So, do you
agree to the proposed amendment?
Dr. Kunbuor 12:20 p.m.
I am saying that it
should even be deleted from this Bill.
M r. F i r s t D e p u t y S p e a k e r :
Absolutely?
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
So, hon.
Deputy Majority Leader, are you in favour of the proposed amendment or not?
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the
tax exemption must stay in the Bill. It must stay.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
So you
are opposed to the proposed amendment?
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 12:20 p.m.
Yes. If not, they
should delete it. But I want to say again that the proposal by our hon. Colleague on the other side is completely wrong.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
That is
beside the point now. I am asking, do you support the proposed amendment?
Hon. Member for Zebilla, I want to
hear from you, else I put the Question.
Dr. Kunbuor 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, we would
1437 National Lotto Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage 1438 1439 National Lotto Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage 1440
need to do things on sound technical basis.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Hon.
Member for Lawra-Nandom, I did not give you the floor.
Dr. Kunbuor 12:20 p.m.
All right.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Yes, hon. Member for Zebilla?
Mr. J. A. Ndebugre 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am heavily bereaved, that is why I have been absent for a few weeks. [Interruptions.] But this is such an important matter. What I have noticed about this Bill is that the purpose of the Bill is being lost upon hon. Members.
I am supporting the amendment not
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Hon.
Members, let us have some order, please.
rose
Mr. Ndebugre 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I thought
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Your
point is well made, hon. Ndebugre.
Dr. A. A. Osei 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, if I may
try to register the intent of that particular clause -- Maybe, the language is what is getting us confused. They are expected to pay value added tax (VAT). If the Chairman would permit so that we can amend it by saying that the Service would be exempted from payment of corporate taxes; as that is the intent of the clause, the confusion would not arise.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Hon.
Member, the question is that the whole clause should be deleted and we are expected to vote on it. Hon. Members, I would put the Question.
Question put and amendment agreed to, viz --
Clause 59, delete
Dr. A. A. Osei 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. Mr. Speaker, if you would permit me, I would want to propose an amendment for clause 59, which is what it was intended to - [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
It has
been deleted so you will not be given the opportunity.
Dr. A. A. Osei 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would
want to make a new amendment.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
No, hon. Member, you are completely out of order.
Mr. Kwame Osei-Prempeh 12:30 p.m.
None

Nii Adu Mante: Mr. Speaker, with the

greatest respect, I see my Good Friend up and since I have not heard him yet, I would be glad if you may allow him to speak.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
I am
1441 National Lotto Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to propose an amendment to clause 64. Mr. Speaker, it is realized that the law or the laws which set up the National Weekly Lotto under which the Department of National Lotteries operates is being repealed under this law. And as soon as this Bill becomes a law, the Department of National Lotteries may not have any legal existence to carry out its functions. Therefore there is the need for a transitional provision and I am proposing an amendment.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
What is
your amendment?
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
my amendment is that “the Department of National Lotteries in existence before the coming into force of this Act shall perform its functions until the National Lotto Authority is established and starts operation.”
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Can you
go over it again?
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I am saying that “the Department of National Lotteries in existence before the coming into force of this Act shall perform its functions until the National Lotto Authority is established and starts operation”. Mr. Speaker, I beg to move.
Alhaji Abukari 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I wanted
to draw the Deputy Attorney-General and Minister for Justice's attention to clause 65. I think clause 65 is a transitional provision and all these have been captured under it.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
I think it
is a little bit different.
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I believe it is a different thing. Mr. Speaker, in fact, the draftsperson, this morning drew my attention to this thing that there is a problem and he believes it must be solved. I did not know we had carried it to this -- [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
It is
slightly different from it.
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 12:30 p.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, it is different. What it means is that the winding-up of say private lotteries which have been licensed -- that is captured in 65 (1). I did not see the Department of National Lotteries established under the National Weekly Lotto Act, 1961 being curtailed in existence.
If we do not take care, when this law is passed, the next week they cannot organize national weekly draws and it would be very dangerous.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
It is very
significant and it ought be done.
Mr. Chireh 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the problem
we are having with this amendment which we are debating is that the amendment is timely, but you see, the Bill came to transform the Department of National Lotteries into a Service, and in the process the whole concept of the Bill must change. And even what was in the memorandum has been transformed by this Act, that is why the confusion is happening. Because the Authority is not going to recruit different people, they were supposed to be the same people transformed into the Authority.
So from tomorrow onward, when the Bill is passed on time, it means we would continue to call them an Authority but they would be performing the same duties, until such a time that we license a part of it, as it is envisaged in the Bill. If not, it
1443 National Lotto Bill -- 3 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage 1444
means that we are now going to have two separate bodies, and we would now have an Authority waiting to be formed but the Department will still be existing. Unless of course, we clarify this, the amendment my hon. Colleague is proposing is bringing more confusion.
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I think that both of them are wrong - [Interruptions.] Mr. Speaker, if you look at clause 64 (4), and with your permission I beg to read:
“The Director of the Department of National Lotteries and every employee of the Department of National Lotteries, immediately in existence before the commen- cement of this Act are by this Act transferred to the Ghana National Lottery Service upon the coming into force of this Act.”
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
When
does this Act come into force?
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, upon
assent by the Head of State, except there is any other commercial clause. So upon the assent, the Department of National Lotteries (DNL) shall cease to exist and all the members would go to the new Authority. And so we cannot have an Authority performing functions, as said by my hon. Colleague, that DNL would have ceased to exist completely. We cannot have an Authority which would cease to exist performing any functions.
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Hon.
Member, it appears that you were not here.
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 12:40 p.m.
During the
Consideration Stage.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it was 65
(4) which was deleted not 64 (4). I think hon. Aidooh is perfectly right. It was 65 (4) which was deleted but - let us have the proceedings of - [Interruption] --You disagreed; I was here.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
We have
the proceedings here.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 12:40 p.m.
I even moved -- It
was 65 (4) but let us have it.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Clause
64 (4), delete; and it was proposed incidentally by the Chairman of the Committee and it has been captured by our Votes and Proceedings of Friday, 14th November.
I will give hearing to the hon. Deputy
- the last delicacy.
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
if the Deputy Minority Leader got me wrong, I move.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Yes, hon.
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 12:40 p.m.
It is that “the
Department of National Lotteries in existence before the coming into force of this Act shall continue to perform its functions until the National Lotto Authority is established and starts
1445 National Lotto Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage
Alhaji Abukari 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want your guidance before you put the Question, please.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Yes, what
do you want?
Alhaji Abukari 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want
your guidance on this issue. There is clause 64 (2) which reads and with your permission, I quote:
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Which
clause are you reading?
Alhaji Abukari 12:40 p.m.
Clause 64 (2).
Alhaji Abukari 12:40 p.m.
“Despite the repeal of the National Lotteries Act, 1961 (Act 94), any Instrument, Regulations and Order made under that Act and in force immediately before the commen- cement of this Act shall subject to this Act continue in force until they are revoked under this Act.”
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Deputy
Attorney-General, what do you say to that?
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
am surprised. Act 64 (2) is talking about any regulations and others made under the Legislative Instrument (L.I.) made under it which will continue to operate until new
ones come into operation. Mr. Speaker, we changed the tenure
of this law. By this law, the Department of National Lotteries (DNL) becomes a marketing company like any other business which will register under the National Lotto Authority. But now it is performing functions -- draws and those things. If we pass this Bill, DNL will have no right to do that under the law which has been repealed and therefore this is what we are trying to make in existence until the new law becomes operational. Mr. Speaker, otherwise, next week somebody can go to court and say DNL, by the new Lottery Act, has no right to operate.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Hon.
Members, just as I was almost on the verge of putting the Question I will go ahead and do so.
Question put and amendment agreed
to, viz --
Clause 64, add a new subclause as follows:
“The Department of National Lotteries in existence before the coming into force of this Act, shall perform its functions until the National Lotto Authority is established and starts operation.”
Clause 64 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Chairman
of the Committee, are you all right with the amendment?
Nii Adu Mante: Mr. Speaker, I am all right with the amendment.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Fair
enough, hon. Members, that brings us to the end of the Second Consideration Stage
1447 National Lotto Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage
of the National Lotto Bill.
BILLS -- THIRD READING 12:40 p.m.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Yes, item
8 on the Order Paper.
Mr. P. C. Appiah-Ofori 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
On the
Foreign Exchange Bill?
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:40 p.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Yes, go
ahead.
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
want to beg you to allow us to move to the Second Consideration Stage so that I can move two amendments.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Move.
BILLS -- SECOND 12:40 p.m.
CONSIDERATION STAGE 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg
to move, that the Foreign Exchange Bill do now pass through a Second Consi-deration Stage in respect of clause 14.
Question put and motion agreed to.
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I have two amendments. I beg to move, clause 14, add the following new clause:
“Without prejudice to section 14 (1), payments for merchandise exports from Ghana shall be made through the bank of the non-resident to the exporters bank in Ghana.”
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Hon.
Appiah-Ofori, would you please move on?
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, we
agree to the amendment.Mr. Speaker, the law is that all operators in the Free Zone area are exempted from paying duty on imports so that their exports can be cheap and then they will be able to export more and generate foreign exchange for the country.
Mr. Speaker, what actually pertains is that some of them sell their goods locally, collect VAT, and then go back into the black market, or into the foreign exchange market, change the money into dollars and pay the money into their foreign exchange accounts, pretending to have exported the goods.
The nation loses the duty and at the same time the nation loses the VAT collected. This amendment if approved will prevent these people from continuing to do that.
Another company, which I myself
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Yes, hon.
Ndebugre, are you on a point of order?
Mr. Ndebugre 12:50 p.m.
Yes, I have a point of
order, Mr. Speaker. I think our rules do not allow hon. Members to make statements about persons who are not present here to defend themselves.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
He is not
specifically making -
Mr. Ndebugre 12:50 p.m.
No, he has talked
about a company he himself had caught, and it was in the newspapers, and so on. It is very clear, so he should be stopped with the greatest respect.
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Yes, hon.
Appiah-Ofori, continue.
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
what I actually want to achieve is to help prevent this fraud perpetrated by people on this country and therefore I invite everybody here to support me, at least, for the first time.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Hon.
Appiah-Ofori, so what is your proposed
amendment?
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, what
I am saying is this, that there must be a new clause, and the draftsmen will know where to put it - new subclause under clause 14 - so that we stop this fraud once and for all.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Yes, hon.
Yieleh Chireh, do you support him?
Mr. Yieleh Chireh 12:50 p.m.
Yes, Mr.
Speaker, I support him. I think that this patriotic Ghanaian who has been making such strenuous efforts to get foreign exchange for us should be supported in our legislature to ensure that we generate enough resources to support the development of this country. The amendment is strongly supported and I urge all of us to vote for it.
Mr. Sallas-Mensah 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
also add my weight to this amendment -- [Interruptions] -- I have a heavy weight. Mr. Speaker, a lot of the Public Accounts Committee Reports on foreign exchange receipts and payments have come to the floor of this House and the hon. Member has most of the time identified these anomalies in our foreign exchange control system. So Mr. Speaker, the amendment is in the right direction to cure this evil in our system.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Appiah-Ofori 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I would like to make a minor change. Instead of “not less than” I would like it to be “not more than 5,000 penalty units”; and on the “imprisonment” too, instead of “not less than”, I would like to change it to “not more than”. Mr. Speaker, once the first amendment has been supported this is consequential.
1449 National Lotto Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage
Mr. Ndebugre 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I definitely will not oppose it, he is now making sense -- [Laughter.] This business of always saying “not less than”, I have argued against it. But I agree with him and I am praying that he also agrees that we also change “not less than ten years” to “not more than ten years”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 14 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
BILLS - THIRD READING 12:50 p.m.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
We would
have come to item 9 on the Order Paper but I have been reliably informed that it was only today that it was distributed and for that matter, since it is a very important Bill, we will not move it today; we will have it moved tomorrow.
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
think we are ready to go ahead with that. We are ready to go ahead with motion No. 9.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
The
Report, I am told, was distributed this morning so you cannot speak for hon. Members. It is an important Bill and for that matter it should -- [Interruptions] - Do you want to take it right now? -- [Pause.] Well, do I have the sense that hon. Members are poised -- [Interruption] -- Hon. Minister, would you allow me to do my work? You should not “stampede” me to do my work. I can imagine that you have quite a number of people in this hall, some of them are in red, particularly in the Gallery and therefore -
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Yes,
hon. Manu.
Mr. Manu 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, as you
rightly pointed out, we have just had the Report this morning and this Bill is so important that it needs the greatest attention. Therefore, I propose that we take it tomorrow when we would have read the document.
Alhaji M. M. Mubarak 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I believe that this Bill has kept so long in this House. We had this Bill before we went on recess and this Report that we are all talking about is not at the Consideration Stage. It is at the Consideration Stage that everyone would need to be conversant with every detail of what we are going to do.
For the Second Reading, I believe that we can move ahead so that we can have ample time next week to look at it when it gets to the Consideration Stage.
Mr. Chireh 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I endorse what he has just said because I know that at the Second Reading of the Bill we are going to discuss policy issues and concerns and observations. Particularly, now that we have august visitors in the House, I think that we should take the Second Reading.
Mr. Ndebugre 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, this Bill, as hon. Balado Manu has said, is so important. And I am speaking as a member of the Constitutional, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs Committee -- the Acting Chairman is sitting besides me. We have had a very thorough discussion of the Bill together with your Committee on Gender; and it is so important that we should not rush it. I do not agree with the - [Interruption] -- With the greatest respect, allow me. I do not agree with the hon. Members for Asawase and Wa West
because the Second Reading of the Bill is the foundation. If this House does not lay a solid foundation, we will be collapsing under it. With the greatest respect we must take our time; so I agree with hon. Balado Manu that we take the Second Reading tomorrow.
Some hon. Members - rose --
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Hon. Members, hon. Ndebugre still has the floor. All of you, do you want to oppose it? Hon. Minister for Gender and Children Affairs, will you take your seat? He still has the floor. He has not finished.
Mr. Ndebugre 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, thank you very much. So I am saying that - [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Hon. Agbesi - [Interruption.]
Mr. Ndebugre 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I thought I still had the floor, as you indicated to the hon. Minister.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
You are still on the floor.
Mr. Ndebugre 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am saying that we should take the Second Reading tomorrow so that we can deal with it seriously to the admiration of those people who have gathered here today instead of doing so in a short, swift manner.
Mr. A. K. Agbesi 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am also of the view that this Bill be taken tomorrow. Mr. Speaker, I am also a member of the Committee that looked at this Bill. We have very serious matters on this Bill - [Interruption.] Mr. Speaker, before this Bill is taken - [Interruption.]
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Hon.
1453 Foreign Exchange Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage 1455 Foreign Exchange Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Con. Stage
Deputy Majority Leader, are you rising on a point of order?
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 1 p.m.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker -- [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Order! Order! Hon. Agbesi, take your seat and let us hear him. Order! Order! Hon. K. T. Hammond, would you please - [Interruption] -- Hon. Members, let us have a little silence, please.
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I wish to propose that we commence the debate today and possibly continue tomorrow. Because if we do not -- next week is for the Budget only and so if we do not commence today and for any reason we do not finish tomorrow, it would go to next two weeks. So I will propose that we commence today and continue tomorrow.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Do you agree, hon. Members?
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Hon. Lee Ocran, why are you opposed to that?
Mr. Ocran 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, yes, I am opposed to taking the Bill today. Mr. Speaker, check your wristwatch, it is 1.05 p.m. What is special about this Bill that we should rush? [Uproar.] -- There is nothing special about the Bill. [Interruption.]
Mr. Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, as has been articulated - [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Hon. Members, please let us have some order.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I plead with my hon. Colleagues to let us listen to each other in silence so that we can at least hear -- [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Yes, I have done that already so continue and make your point.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, we are calling for the Second Reading to be made so that if we are not able to finish, we continue tomorrow. Mr. Speaker, people are talking about the Report from the Committee having been distributed only this morning. But Mr. Speaker, when we come to debate or discuss a Report or a Bill at the Second Reading, the purpose or the remit of the debate is not limited to the Report from the Committee alone.
Mr. Speaker, there are two things that we do at the Second Reading. One, we discuss the principle as contained in the Memorandum of the Bill, and this is stated in our Standing Orders 127 which says and with your permission I quote:
“On a motion being made that a Bill be now read a Second time, a full debate shall arise on the principle of the Bill on the basis of the explanatory memorandum and the Report from the Committee.”
Mr. Speaker, we have two documents to concern ourselves with; one is the memorandum of the Bill, which has been with us for more than three months. Mr. Speaker, who is saying that we cannot start the debate on the memorandum of the Bill? If some people are not prepared to articulate their opinions, they could hold on till tomorrow. So let us start and see where we can get to.
Mr. Speaker, we particularly sought permission from the President for the hon. Minister responsible for Gender and Children's Affairs to be here the whole day because today is a Cabinet meeting day. So what do we make of it, if she
gets up and goes? Mr. Speaker, we do not debate for the cameras. We do not, as hon. Lee Ocran is pointing at; we do not debate for the cameras.
Mr. Speaker, on how many occasions have we not extended Sitting for reasons of considering a very important issue? Mr. Speaker, I beg to submit that we start the debate and we continue tomorrow.
Mr. Pele Abuga 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am entirely in agreement with the hon. Majority Chief Whip. As indicated earlier, the Bill was circulated among hon. Members much earlier; and we have our Agenda. It has been advertised on the Order Paper and we are doing our normal course of business. It is not yet time for us to rise, so I think that we can continue with the Bill. [Hear! Hear!]
Mr. K. A. Okerchiri 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think this Bill deals with -- [Interrup- tion.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Hon. Kwame Osei-Prempeh, that was a communist tactic -- [Laughter.]
Mr. Okerchiri 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, this Bill seeks to address violence. We must discuss this Bill in an atmosphere of serenity. We must not start discussing this Bill when we are polarized like this. [Uproar] -- Mr. Speaker, it would do us - [Uproar] -- It would do us a lot of good if we started it tomorrow -- all of us Sitting, and all of us, ad idem, doing justice to this Bill. We must not start it on a wrong footing like this.
Dr. A. A. Osei 1:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, on this occasion I want to vehemently disagree with my Deputy Majority Whip because we must start today. Mr. Speaker, in any case people are talking about tomorrow. Mr. Speaker, tomorrow is Friday. Do we
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Are you for today?
Mr. Kamel 1:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, yes. I think we should have the Bill today. Mr. Speaker, I am saying this because, as the hon. Member for Jomoro (Mr. Ocran) said, there are so many things special about this Bill that we must accept it today. Mr. Speaker, what is important is that this Bill has generated so much interest, not only in this country; and there is even the impression that some people were running away from it. If we are not careful that impression might hold, so let us start the process today. It is on the Order Paper; we have been made aware. Let us start with it today and continue tomorrow.
Mr. S. K. B. Manu 1:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Bill is so important, as the hon. Member has said, and if we want the whole country and the whole world to know that we are not running away from the Bill then we should use today to announce to the whole world that tomorrow we are taking the Bill so that they can all come here and listen.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Hon. Members, I will put the Question to a vote. I want us to vote on that because it appears that opinion is very much divided on the matter.
Hajia Alima Mahama: Mr. Speaker, we always have Papers being laid even few minutes to debate in this House, this is not the first time. Mr. Speaker, let those who are opposed to this Bill or victims
1457 23 Nov. 2006 1459 23 Nov. 2006
Mr. Lee Ocran 1:10 p.m.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, while I am beginning to change my mind, the hon. Minister has said something which I do not agree with. She has to withdraw the statement she made. It seems she is saying “those of us opposed to moving it today” means that we are against the Bill. We are not against the Bill; we are just talking of time.
Mr. First Deputy Minister 1:10 p.m.
Hon. Minister, you are being asked to withdraw.
Hajia Mahama: Mr. Speaker, I have no quarrel with that. I withdraw.
But the way it has generated debate, I just find it interesting because in this House sometimes we sit here and Papers are brought in one hour to debate, we pick the papers, we read them and we continue with the debate. Why is it that with this particular Bill we are having a problem?
Mr. Speaker, in order not to prolong this discussion I propose that we move the motion. We should move the motion, start the discussion, and if there is the need for us to continue tomorrow, we can continue tomorrow. But we will move it today. As the Chief Whip has said, it has been on the Order Paper; it is not yet 2 o'clock; we can move it and continue tomorrow.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Hon. Members, just as it has been articulated on this floor, this is part of our agenda today. We have more than an hour to consider it. Of course, some are not yet ready to take part in the debate, maybe tomorrow we can continue, so it is my decision that we start today. [Hear! Hear!]
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Hon. Member for Zebillah, what are you pointing at?
Mr. Ndebugre 1:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, if I could refer you to Order 127 of our Standing Orders; and Mr. Speaker, with your permission I read:
“127. (1) On a motion being made that a Bill be now read a Second time, a full debate shall arise on the principle of the Bill on the basis of the explanatory memorandum and the Report from the Committee.”
Mr. Speaker, a full debate, not a half
debate. [Uproar.] Mr. Speaker, with the greatest respect, if I can make my point. I do not want anybody to get out of this room with the misimpression that we who are asking for the debate to begin tomorrow are against the Bill. I am a member of the Committee; at the committee level the debate was very fierce so let us take our time and start tomorrow.
I am for the Bill and for the avoidance of doubt I am including an amendment in section 42 (1) (g). I am for the law against marital rape. We are not against the Bill but because of the importance of the Bill we should start tomorrow and deal with it fully. It is in accordance with the rules and the rules do not allow us to start today.
Some hon. Members - rose -
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Hon. Members, could you all take your seat. It is the decision of the Chair that we start the debate right now.
BILLS - SECOND READING 1:20 p.m.
Mrs. Juliana Azumah-Mensah (NDC - Ho East) 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to register my whole-
Mrs. Juliana Azumah-Mensah (NDC - Ho East) 1:30 p.m.
1483 Domestic Violence Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Reading

Mr. Speaker, it is not only for womankind, it is for everybody because the Bill encompasses everybody and it is gender neutral. I believe I said for mankind because anybody who abhors violence in this House will vote for the passage of this Bill into law.

Mr. Speaker, the Domestic Violence Bill covers everybody, as I said ealier; our wives, our husbands, our sons, our daughters, nieces; in fact, everybody in the family set-up. It is for this reason that I would like to urge all hon. Members of this House to support and vote massively for this Bill to be passed into law.

Mr. Speaker, the apprehension and the jitteriness of a section of the public are rather unfounded. The Bill, as I said ealier, is gender neutral. The principle behind any relationship is mutual respect and the preservation of the dignity of a fellow human being. Mr. Speaker, this Bill when passed will deal appropriately with the numerous attacks on our sisters, our brothers, including children and housemaids, as mentioned in the Bill, all of them in the domestic setting. A lot of the perpetrators are hiding behind masks such as uncle, brother, even father, auntie and we all know that the majority of these cases are still not brought into the open; they are unheard of.

Mr. Speaker, we must all agree that most of these victims do not have a voice. I would not be lured with some sweets, I would not be lured with ¢10,000.00, I would not be lured into a room by anybody -- to bring his food or books. But there are other vulnerable people out there like our children and maids, and all those people

who do not have a voice; and then when the perpetrators have their way, their future is spoilt forever. Mr. Speaker, therefore, this Bill needs to be passed for those victims whom we seek justice for and we want support for to be protected.

This Bill is also about prevention rather than cure. When it is passed into law, it would be a check on the would- be perpetrators, which would mean that they would have to think before they act. Indeed, Mr. Speaker, it is an instrument to be used by the Judiciary to deal with the perpetrators accordingly.

Mr. Speaker, the Victims Support Fund which your Committee is proposing will go a long way to offer victims holistic support, rehabilitation and bring them back into the society and give them back their dignity.
Mr. K. T. Hammond 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. Mr. Speaker, the hon. Member has just misled the House. There is some misunderstanding in the hon. Member's comprehension of the issues. The hon. Members who were making what may be perceived to be noise were basically saying, “leave it till tomorrow”. They were neither apprehensive nor afraid - [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
That argument is neither here nor there. Yes, she did say there was uproar, and it was over the time; as to whether it was for today or tomorrow, it does not make any difference.
Mrs. Azumah-Mensah 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to take the intervention of the hon. Member to be telling me that tomorrow when we carry on with this Bill, he would be one of the supporters. I did not say he did not support it.
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
That does not ask for any answer from you -- [Interruptions.] You want to promise her that she can be sure of that.
Mrs. Azumah-Mensah 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I believe a few of our Members have had some fliers, leaflets put into their pigeon- holes. Literally, they are saying that these fliers were to force them to help us pass the Bill. I would like to say categorically here that those fliers were not coming from your Joint Committee which discussed this Bill. We do not know where those fliers came from. So I hope they would ignore that so that we deal with this Bill appropriately.
Mr. Speaker, with these words of assurance to and by hon. Members, I support the Bill and hope hon. Members will do same.
Some Members -- rose --
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
I did call hon. Member for Evalue-Gwira, Mr. Kojo Armah, then after that the hon. Member for Savelugu, Hajia Mary Boforo.
Mr. Kojo Armah (CPP -- Evalue Gwira) 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I also rise to support the motion and in doing so I want to make a few comments, as Vice Chairman of the Legal and Constitutional Committee and Joint Chairman of the Joint Committee.
It is unfortunate that the passage of time, whilst the Bill was pending, was
made to look as if it was a Bill in favour of women as against men. The provisions of the Bill itself explain the domestic setting as any relationship in the domestic arena between two people. It could be house help or a husband or a wife involved with some other person, which therefore means that any couple in a domestic relationship may visit abuse on each other and therefore be subject to this Bill.
Mr Speaker, I want to put the Bill in the context of the constitutional provision, article 15, which says that the dignity of all persons shall be invaluable. Article 15 (2) goes on to say that no person shall, whether or not he is arrested, restricted or detained be subjected to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
Mr. Speaker, the whole issue about domestic violence is the inhuman treatment of one person by another. At the committee level, we were given figures to show the rise in beating, particularly of women, which had been reported to the police outfit originally known as Women and Juvenile Unit (WAJU) and now given some other name. But it is important to some of us also to have noted that of late, reports from men who are being subjected to abuse by their wives were also on the increase at the WAJU offices.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
Hon. Lee Ocran, he is not making any allegations. What is your objection?
Mr. Lee Ocran 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, why my constituency? Why not go to his constituency?
Mr. Armah 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am surprised that the hon. Member is protesting. This was a case of a trained teacher who was cut by her husband in his constituency; the woman was cut and now the two arms have been amputated. The breasts were cut and the woman was brought here and thanks to her lecturer in Legon, she is being rehabilitated at St. Martin's Hospital in Nsawam. It is a live case and I am citing that one as a clear example of the type of indignity that women can be subjected to. But it was in his constituency; and it was in the press.
Mr. Ocran 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, he is misleading the House. The woman in question was not the wife of the man; she was a girl-friend - [Laughter.]
Mr. Armah 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it even makes it a more serious illustration. In that domestic relationship which does not really make a man and wife but anybody -- [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
Well, he wants to set the records straight.
Mr. Armah 1:40 p.m.
He wants to set the records straight, but I want to use it as an example of the type of indignity that a woman can suffer. So we need to look at the Bill.
Mr. Speaker, the Bill also sets forth several other situations where the issue of domestic violence can be dealt with; apart from the physical torture and the rest, the trauma, the psychological torture and the
rest have also been provided for.
There is also, Mr. Speaker, this issue of what victims of domestic violence have to go through, and one area that came for very strong discussion is the process that they go through at the police station and at the hospital. The forms that they are given at the police station to go to hospital are very often subjected to fees that are unauthorized.
We were told that they are charged between ¢200,000 and ¢250,000 before the medical officers sign the forms for them. One could imagine somebody already going through this trauma and being charged a fee that itself is unauthorized. The explanation we were given was that the doctors take these fees in anticipation that they may be called to give evidence in court; they use such monies for petrol.
It is not part of the Bill, but we are pleading with the Ghana Medical Association and the doctors themselves to look at that issue and then make some provision in the National Health Insurance for that. I think there is a provision in the National Health Insurance law that victims of domestic violence should have free medical treatment.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
It appears that quite a number of hon. Members would like to contribute, so I give you just a minute to wind up.
Mr. Armah 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, with these few comments I want to commend the motion to hon. Members so that we can let this Bill pass as quickly as we can.
Alhaji Sumani Abukari (NDC - Tamale North) 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, any Ghanaian who is praying for a peaceful home, any Ghanaian who is looking forward to having a happy family, any Ghanaian who is looking forward to having the support of the wife or the husband, any Ghanaian who is looking forward to bringing up his kids in a peaceful environment that will secure their future, this is the Bill that they should support.
Mr. Speaker, even the title of the Bill itself, “Domestic Violence Bill” speaks for it. Mr. Speaker, anybody who wants to be effective in his lifestyle - the social activities, his professional duties - has to have some measure of peace in his domestic environment; violence will not give him that peace.
Mr. Speaker, we all know what happens; we should not be ostriches and bury our heads in the sand. We know what happens to several wives - particularly wives in our homes. It is occasionally that it happens to men. We know how some men treat their wives as if they were their slaves. Once they paid the dowry, she became a chattel in the house.
Mr. Speaker, we think that it is about time, even where we are trying to build a democratic society in a very civilized world, that we upgraded our laws to ensure that we live like modern human beings under the rule of law.
Mr. Speaker, I will hundred per cent support this Bill as amended by your Committee, of course, and call on all my hon. Colleagues at the right time to support it in full. This is a Bill that will do Ghana
proud. This is a Bill that will tell the entire universe that Ghana has come of age. This is a Bill that will give us the respect that we deserve, as Africans.
Mr. Speaker, I call on all my hon. Colleagues to support it.
Deputy Minister for Trade, Industry, Private Sector & PSI (Mrs. Gifty Ohene-Konadu): I thank you, Mr. Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to associate myself with this Bill.
Domestic violence is a very serious problem that we are all facing in Ghana today. Many people think that domestic violence is just men beating their wives but domestic violence can occur to anyone, of any culture, race, occupation or income level. And the abusers can be husbands, wives, boyfriends, lovers, daughters or sons. In fact, it can happen to anyone.
Often, the abusers pick a victim who is a hard worker, responsible and forgiving, the type of person over whom abusers can use their power and control. If you think about it, an abuser never picks another abuser. Statistics about the abuse in Ghana are outstanding. Teenage girls are experiencing ‘dating' violence even before they reach 18 years. Again, statistics also indicate that about 60 per cent of men who abuse their wives, abuse their children as well.
Mr. Speaker, the object of the Bill is to provide victims of domestic violence with a broader set of remedies, in the form of protection orders. Again, the legislation against domestic violence will uphold provisions in the Constitution on respect of human dignity, in article 15, among other human rights provisions. It will also be in line and accord with the international commitments and obligations of the Republic under CIDAL, ratified by Ghana, and also the Convention on the Rights of
Mr. Haruna Iddrisu (NDC -- Tamale South) 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I cherish the opportunity to associate myself with the Second Reading of this important Bill which I believe, sincerely, is long overdue. I believe the enthusiasm with which hon. Members have approached this Bill will put to rest the erroneous impression that it is only men who can be perpetrators of domestic violence. Our shared position on it demonstrates that both men and women will be protected by this legislation and, in the words of the Chairperson, the Bill, or when it becomes an Act, will be gender neutral.
But in doing so, Mr. Speaker, I would like, first of all, to recognize and to go a step ahead to commend Cabinet for the proper judgement it exercised in doing a proper scrutiny of the proposition that sought to amend article 42 (g) which sought to make marital rape an offence.
Mr. Speaker, I think that the decision of Cabinet was well-informed and must be commended, in the sense that, the position of Cabinet, in my view, shows enormous respect for the time-tested values and cultures of Ghana and respect across board -- some of the issues that may be hindrances even if it became law.
Mr. Speaker, it is not a question of whether my good Friend from Tamale Central agrees or not. Mr. Speaker, you cannot restrict the enjoyment or benefit of conjugal rights when it is acquired within
the process of marriage and I believe that was what informed the decision of Cabinet in saying, for now, if this country was to go through the process of making marital rape an offence, the purpose of maintaining matrimonial harmony and ensuring cohesion within families would not have been attained.
Since this Bill is about building bridges and ensuring that the marriage institution is a very important social institution which we are told is even responsible for the continuity of society - [Interruption] - I am married; I am happily married -- [Laughter.] Oh! I had a wonderful son even before my marriage, Mr. Speaker -- [Interruptions.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Hon.
Member, speak to the Chair and ignore the interruption.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I support this Bill but just to say that, first I want to commend the initiators of this Bill but would want to charge them to go beyond the passage of this Bill to identify some of the factors, be they social or psychological, which inform the occurrence of domestic violence. We would need to have some information in order to inform our knowledge base as to what it is that informs the conduct of people. I do know that it may just be an emotional or a psychological outburst, but we need to probe deeper in order to know them.
Mr. Speaker, the other issue is that
the passage of this Bill will not be enough if our judicial process continues to be slow, the trial process continues to be cumbersome. We are told in the Committee's Report that sometimes during the long trials, people even miss out on the issues. Mr. Speaker, reference has been made to some provisions of the
Constitution, that we need to protect the dignity of all persons, be they male or female. I think that it is an important Bill and Members should support it.
But my worry, Mr. Speaker, has to do with page 11 of your Committee's Report where there is a proposal for the establishment of a fund, which fund as being proposed must come from the Contingency Fund. I do believe that the civil society groups that are interested in this legislation will support Government in order to be able to do it.
But Mr. Speaker, there is the need for
public education. I am sure the Ministry responsible for Gender will look for additional resources to conscientize the Ghanaian public as to the implementation of the provisions of this Act.
I am sure I could have said more, but in order that other hon. Members might have an opportunity to contribute to this important legislation, I would want to rest my case here and say that it is a Bill worth supporting by all of us.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Hon.
Members, it is about five minutes to two o'clock. I want to announce that we will have an extended Sitting. Is that the consensus? - [Some hon. Members: We will continue tomorrow.] We will continue tomorrow but let me, in that case, give hon. Balado Manu the opportunity to contribute.
Mr. S. K. B. Manu (NPP - Ahafo Ano
South): Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak to the Bill and the motion on floor.
Mr. Speaker, domestic violence is not an exceptional thing. It is violence and
violence is abhorred whether it occurs in the house, in the street, on the sea, in space or anywhere. So I do not see anything so strange about it such that people felt we did not want to pass the Bill. And people were putting on red bands, parading the corridors of Parliament, carrying themselves about as champions of the Domestic Violence Bill. That was what I hated about the Bill - [Laughter.] People trying to claim ownership of the Bill and going elsewhere to collect monies and “chop” at the behest of Parliament. People have even forged petitions to Parliament -- [Interruptions.]
Dr. A. A. Osei 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, my senior Colleague has made some serious allegations about people taking money to “chop”. Mr. Speaker, this is an august House, and also either he produces the evidence now or he withdraws that statement. We are debating a very important Bill, and irrespective of our differences, we cannot be making allegations that cannot be substantiated. Mr. Speaker, people are listening to it. Unless he has evidence of somebody taking money to “chop”, he should withdraw that statement.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Hon.
Balado Manu, your Colleague, Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning is saying that you are accusing some people of taking money to “chop” merely to champion this Bill. You have no evidence and those you may be accusing have not got the opportunity to be on the floor to defend themselves. You are accordingly being asked to withdraw.
Mr. Manu 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, hon. Balado
Manu is on his feet and he maintains what he said -- [Hear! Hear!] If it were ‘‘econometrics'', I may withdraw, but this is evidence I hold in my hand -- people forging people's signatures. Why should they do that? Why would they do that if they do not intend to benefit in a way? Why would they forge signatures?
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Hon.
Manu, let us get back to it again. The hon. Deputy Minister has said that you are accusing people yet so far, what you have said does not prove that. Some people are extremely concerned and so they have decided to form an NGO or whatever it is to sign a petition and merely signing a petition does not mean that you want to stand to gain by that. I think you are wrong; withdraw it and let us make progress.
Mr. Manu 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I do not think you want this Bill to run into problems. But if you want this Bill to run into problems, the Bill will run into problems. I know what I am talking about. I am holding a document here.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Hon.
Manu, it is my direction that you withdraw and let us make progress.
Mr. Manu 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, for the
respect I have -- [Laughter] - for the Chair, I cannot but withdraw.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Very
good, let us continue.
Mr. Manu 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, what I am
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Hon.
Mr. Manu 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, this is
supposed to be coming from a constituency and the people are not known; the people who are here are not known in the constituency.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
How
do you know that they are not known? What proof do you have that they are not known? Are they from your const- ituency?
Mr. Manu 2 p.m.
You think I do not know the people in my constituency? [Laughter.] I do not know the people in my constituency enough? Having served them for three terms in Parliament, I do not know them enough?
Mr. Speaker, what I am saying is that the Bill is like any other Bill and any civilized society would like to have this Bill; but people should refrain from claiming ownership of the Bill. The Bill is for Parliament to pass and we are going to pass it and nobody should go about thinking that they have got the Bill to be passed.
There is another big evidence, a whole booklet, and when we are talking people think we are joking; we are serious. The Domestic Violence Bill will be passed; I will be the first to vote for it, but not under anybody's pressure or intimidation or luring.
Dr. A. A. Osei 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
may agree with everything my senior Colleague is saying but this House has rules, regulations and principles. Mr. Speaker, we have an Order Paper, and he is waving an anonymous evidence we do not have copies of. How do we know what he is holding is genuine? [Interruption.] Mr. Speaker, if he is presenting something for us to look at, review and debate, we should at least have access to it; otherwise it is not fair to us.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
Hon. Manu, again I am inclined to agree with your hon. Colleague, the Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning. In
Mr. Manu 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am prepared
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
Hon.
Manu, once again, let me say that you are contributing to a debate. It is definitely not a very vital point in the remarks and points that you are canvassing. To talk about, and to attack other people is not proper. Indeed, the Standing Orders do not allow you to do that. It is very strict on this, that people who do not have the opportunity to defend themselves, you do not take the floor of this House to lampoon them and attack their reputation.
Indeed, the petition, the way I can see it is that, what you are holding may be a petition signed by some people and forwarded to Parliament. I do not think you should back your argument or rely on that petition, and the signatories to that petition, to make an argument on this floor. I think you are making a little mistake and you do not want the House to embark on an investigation to prove you wrong or right. We are only debating the issues and you yourself have indicated that you support it. So I would entreat you, if you do not want that kind of controversy to be extended, stay away from that and make your argument.
Mr. Manu 2 p.m.
Who am I when the Chair has asked me, or has advised me, to turn down the advice? I humbly accept the advice.
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
Hon.
Member, are you also rising against what I have said?
Mr. E. A. Agyepong 2 p.m.
No, not against
what you said. It is a point I want to make in connection with what my hon. Colleague has just said.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
I think we
have advanced from there; he has accepted and he has indeed expressed his -
Mr. E. A. Agyepong 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
You are
out of order; I have not given you the chance. Wait for your turn - [Interruption] - Continue, hon. Manu. I would give you one more minute to wind up.
Mr. Manu 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, domestic
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
Hon.
Member, you are also rising what is your problem? Are you rising on a point of order? What is your point?
Mr. Asiamah 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I do not
think my hon. Colleague is misleading this House. These signatures were sent to Parliament - [Interruption] -- This is a copy I have personally, as people who hail from my constituency; but they do not hail from my constituency. This is ample evidence to demonstrate that what my hon.
1499 Domestic Violence Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Reading
Colleague is saying is true. They have also indicated that Members of Parliament are not serious towards this whole Bill. That misconception must be cleared, and that is why we are so serious on this issue.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
You are
out of order.
Mr. Manu 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, domestic
violence is perceived erroneously as being perpetrated by only men against women. That is another thing about the Bill that I do not like. Mr. Speaker, go to homes and you would see what we call in local parlance, “alomo djatas” - [Interruption] - Yes, some women have become lionesses in their homes - [Interruption.]
Mrs. Gifty Kusi 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, can the
hon. Member translate what he said? I do not understand.
Mr. Manu 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, “alomo djata”
is a tigress in the marital home -- a tigress. And then, Mr. Speaker, they would not allow their men to cross the red sea when they want to; and these things turn the men's attention to the househelps. So if we want to curtail domestic violence, the women who have turned themselves into tigresses in the marital homes must change their attitude. They need to see hon. Kwamena Bartels for reorientation - [Interruption] - Mr. Speaker, with these few words, I thank you for the opportunity; and I support the motion. [Interruption.]
Mr. J. B. D. Adu 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, much as we support whatever he is saying, I think the description of some women as “alomo djatas”, if he could withdraw that statement, because it is very demeaning - [Interruption.]
Mr. E. K. Bandua (NDC - Biakoye) 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this motion. In fact, this motion has so generated a lot of interest
in this House that one begins to wonder whether or not the passage of this Bill into law would automatically stop all these problems. I do not think so.
A lot of interest has been generated but the mere passage of this Bill into law is not going to solve this problem that we have. We need to have a complete change of orientation and attitude in our society; until then we are just fighting for nothing. We have to agree and believe and accept that we are all social partners in the domestic setting and that there should be mutual respect for one another in that setting.

Until we come to terms with this situation we are not going to achieve anything by mere passage of this Bill. So I would rather entreat all of us to know, understand and appreciate that a lot of these things have to change in this society that we are living in at the moment. In fact, some of the traditions that currently prevail in this system are outmoded; traditions like female genital mutilation - all these things are problems that we have to look at.

Obsolete customs must be changed; society must change its attitude; men must come to accept women as their social partners and women must also accept men as such. Until we all come to grips with these problems, mere passage of this Bill into law will not solve the problem.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
Hon.
Member, this is a debate; are you supporting the motion?
Mr. Bandua 2:10 p.m.
I support the motion. But I am saying that after this Bill has been passed, a lot of work has to be done. There should be a lot of education; there should be a lot of commitment - [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
Let us get
there then; let us contribute until we get there and after that we know what to do.
Mr. Bandua 2:10 p.m.
We have to contribute
and make sure that the law works. All of us as, one body and one unit, should commit ourselves and ensure that the Bill becomes very effective. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker for the opportunity.
Maj. (Dr.) (Alhaji) Mustapha Ahmed (retd) (NDC - Ayawaso East): Mr. Speaker, I support the motion on the floor and I will urge my hon. Colleagues to do same.
Mr. Speaker, as has been said by hon. Colleagues, this Bill has generated a lot of interest in the country; but it is like putting the cart before the horse. I say so because the Bill makes provision for rehabilitation and so many other things. Do we have all these facilities in place? Rights come with responsibilities.
Mr. Kojo Armah 2:10 p.m.
On a point of
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
I do not think that is a sufficient point of order. He is expressing an opinion; he says for the Bill to be effective and achieve its object there are other things that need to be provided; and he is talking about provision of more police stations, and so on. I think I would allow him to canvass the point he was making.
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
Hon. Deputy Minister, what is your point?
Dr. A. A. Osei 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, correct me if I am wrong but I thought he said the passage of this Bill would come as a disappointment to some women. Mr. Speaker, he has not offered any evidence that he knows who will be disappointed - [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
You are out of order.
Maj. (Dr. ) (Alhaji) Ahmed (retd): Mr. Speaker, there is also another category of women in this country who believe
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
That is an opinion he is expressing, what is your problem with that? It is not an issue of evidence. He says, there are - [Interruption.]
Mr. Dankwa Adu 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think he is misleading us by referring to a little beating; beating is beating, irrespective - [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
Take your seat and let him continue.
Maj. (Dr.) (Alhaji) Ahmed (retd): Mr. Speaker, with these few words I support the Bill.
Mr. J. Y. Chireh (NDC - Wa West) 2:10 p.m.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to remove certain doubts that some people are beginning to entertain about this Bill.
First, we are not passing this Bill for absurdities - for people who like to be beaten before they enjoy anything; no. It is an aberration in life to do that; but if somebody enjoys it he will not make it a police case. Nobody will be arrested; so he should rest assured.
Secondly, we have all heard about the traditions and religion and our marriage institution. I think that what we are failing to understand, as a people, is that when it suits us we want those practices and institutions to remain stagnant. But we must move on; we want to be democratic.
And therefore when democratically people put petitions in our pigeonholes, they are just telling us to wake up.
Some hon. Members: Forged ones! Forged ones!
Mr. Chireh 2:20 p.m.
No proof has been provided about the forgery, and as an hon. Member of this House I will not say anything that I think will injure another person's reputation. I will only ask, even if it was forged, was it forged to dupe and collect money from the State? No, it was to urge hon. Members to support this Bill.
I do not see any conflict, whether in Christianity or in traditional worship, where it is allowed to beat somebody. Even if it was happening, our laws today would not allow it, because of the democratic culture that we all want to enjoy. This law is in the right direction. Those who argue that we are equally affected by the law, indeed - Again, I will want to say that predominantly because society as we know it today has been male dominated, if there is any suffering, it is the female who suffers most.
In Ghana we tend to be in a state of denial, and this is very painful because when we are talking about the serious thing affecting another person, others say, “Oh, but it happens to any other person; it is happening here”. Look, children and women are mostly affected by any violence in the domestic setting.
Therefore, all that the Bill is seeking to say is to emphasize what the ill is. Otherwise what business do we have passing a law like this? It must identify the target group, the benefits that are supposed to accrue to people. And therefore, all the arguments about marriage institutions - We are not talking about marriage here; we are talking about violence in the domestic setting. And it can take place whether one
is married or not.
Many people are in ‘domestic' situations that are not marriages. Therefore, if we use the words, “marriage harmony” or “marriage institution” as a sanctified institution that cannot be disturbed when others are going through serious human rights violation then we cannot boast as a country that we are civilized.

Nii Amasah Namoale (NDC - Dade

Kotopon): Mr. Speaker, today is a historic day for us in Ghana. Mr. Speaker, we have before us a Bill that touches on our social and cultural fabrics. Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank all the stakeholders. I would like to extend my sincere appreciation to all of them, especially the traditional leaders, the religious leaders, the non- governmental organisations (NGOs) that discussed the provisions of the Bill before its submission to Parliament.

Mr. Speaker, sometimes the gender- based laws do not adequately define ‘domestic violence' and ‘domestic relationships'. Mr. Speaker, sexual harassment that affects women in employment and female students is also not defined in our existing laws. Mr. Speaker, civil remedies, in my opinion, are not adequate to address domestic violence. With this Bill, definition is made of domestic violence, domestic relationships and sexual harassment.

Mr. Speaker, this Bill will make it mandatory for the police, social workers and health officials to assist in domestic

violence situations. I welcome the Bill because it will provide the comprehensive legal framework to address domestic violence. I want us to consider the alternative dispute resolution aspect of this Bill carefully for victims not to suffer further abuse or further emotional injuries. Let us consider it.

Mr. Speaker, I would like the House to

consider the plight of victims in having to bear the medical expenses for the police to get the medical report in order to effect prosecution of cases.

With this, Mr. Speaker, I would like to

support the motion on the floor and urge all hon. Colleagues to vote for this Bill.

Mr. Maxwell Kofi Jumah (NPP

- Asokwa): Mr. Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to support the Bill. Mr. Speaker, as much as I support this Bill, there is one reservation that I have and that is the deletion of the marital rape clause. I believe that there is no such thing as conjugal right over another person. Somebody said that in relationships, it should be “jaw-jaw” instead of “fight- fight”. And for some of us here, I think we are doing a very good job, when we “jaw-jaw”; that is why we got elected.

Mr. Speaker, I want to make one or two points. The effects of domestic violence, especially on our children - empirical studies done here and elsewhere has proven that children from abusive families tend to be lower performers in school, even sometimes at work. They tend to be violent when they grow up. And in schools, especially the elementary schools, they tend to be bullies.

We have seen that some of the children who grow up under abusive families, tend to have low self-esteem. In fact, sometimes at work when they are bosses, they tend to use their offices to exploit

people who work under them. So it is not a domestic violence issue; it is societal problem.

I would not go too much into it except to say that I am hoping that our NGOs, our churches and our mosques would set up, as indicated in the Bill, shelters, especially for the battered women, if you consider the fact that most of the violence usually occur at night, at the time that the woman is most vulnerable.

They should now open up shelters in their churches and mosques and other places; they should let the whole community know that shelters are available just in case one happened to be abused. This is because, there are so many instances when women and children are abused, and they are also trapped because they have nowhere else to go.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to add that usually the abusers do not have criminal minds. Of course, if one commits a crime, he must be punished but then they would need counselling and help because really it is a sickness that must be dealt with by psychiatrists and psychologists.

With these few words, I want to support the motion.
Mr. Lee Ocran (NDC - Jomoro) 2:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the motion. I support the motion and nobody should have the impression that those of us who were asking for postponement do not support the Bill. Violence is violence whether it is committed in the home or in the streets by a man or by a woman. And all of us want peaceful homes.
I have a very peaceful home and I want everybody to have peaceful homes. What
I do not like is the feminist twist being given to the Bill as if men are perpetrators of violence. In this country, in the home, it is the women who beat their maids. I have never seen any man beating his houseboy because if one is not careful the houseboy will beat him. So one will not even try it. But the women are always beating and maltreating the maids.
These things should be put in the right perspective and I intend to propose some amendments during the Consideration Stage. There are certain amendments that I am going to propose so that we will have a Bill which will deal with the entire problem and not to come and scratch the surface of the problem. And nobody should think that they can put on red bands and come and put pressure on us. We are doing our work and we want to do our work as our constituents would want us to do.
With these few words, I support the motion.
Mr. J. B. Danquah Adu (NPP - Akim Abuakwa North) 2:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I know that time is far gone but my little submission I want to make is basically to say that this particular Bill hinges on fundamental human rights. That is the whole essence of this Bill. It is about the right of the individual, be it a man or woman, whether married or not. And if you are married, whether one is a married man or a married woman, they have their own individual rights and those rights must be respected and must be protected.
And therefore, as my hon. Friend said, in a domestic setting where one has maids, servants and the rest, this law goes to protect all the individual rights of all these people and for that reason and that reason alone, I do rise to support this very, very important Bill that this House will pass
in due course.
Mr. Stephen Kunsu (NDC - Kintampo North) 2:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the motion on the Domestic Violence Bill. The Bill has come at a very opportune time when our newspapers are inundated with horrible pictures and stories of cases of domestic violence. The frequency by which these crimes are committed is becoming an extremely incomprehensible phenomenon in contemporary Ghana.
It is my belief, Mr. Speaker, that if hon. Members of this august House support the passage of this Bill, practical expression would have been given to the elimination of violence. Barbarisms that are associated with the violence, would then be minimised and life would be meaningful and dignified.
Mr. Speaker, the perpetrators who are mostly men are petrified with fear when mention is made of the Domestic Violence Bill. This fear does not come in vacuum. It is anchored in the belief and suspicion that when the Bill is passed, men will be compromising their domineering role over the women since the pendulum of supremacy will be tilted towards the women.

To me, this is myopic thinking. They also visualize a breakdown of discipline and the upsurge of moral decadence; to them they are diametrically opposed to this because of the biblical admonition -- spare the rod and spoil the child.

But Mr. Speaker, a psychologist would

tell you that frequent acts of violence would have a repercussion on the family.

Now, a house which is characterized by frequent acts of domestic violence is likely to produce in the children the tendency of timidity, cruelty and aggressiveness. [Laughter.] This is rather not so. To me, this Bill would even deepen the love of married men because families would live in an atmosphere uncontaminated by fear -- [Uproar.]

Mr. Speaker, I myself had once been a victim of domestic violence during my early school days -- [Interruptions.] It was not any crime that I committed; it was just because I was late from school one day. The painful memory is still rankling in my mind today. Mr. Speaker, there is a conspicuous scar on my forehead and it is the corollary of the violence. [Uproar.]

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the Bill does

not seek to give undue advantage to our women; it would rather protect marriages from collapsing. Although most people consider our women and children as most vulnerable, I would also say that men are also subjected to this cruel act. How many times, Mr. Speaker, have we not heard about women using sexual starvation as punishment for their husbands? [Uproar.] How many times have we not heard about husbands accusing their wives of conjugal infidelity? [Uproar.]

Mr. Speaker, with these few words I
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:30 p.m.
Hon. Members, on that note, we would
1509 Domestic Violence Bill -- 23 Nov. 2006 2nd Reading
ADJOURNMENT 2:30 p.m.
  • The House was adjourned at 2.37 p.m. till 24th November, 2006 at 10.00 a.m.