Debates of 22 Mar 2007

MR. SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10 a.m.

CORRECTION OF VOTES 10 a.m.

AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE 10 a.m.

OFFICIAL REPORT 10 a.m.

Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
Hon. Members, the Votes and Proceedings are not ready and therefore not available. We do not have any Official Report.
Item -- 3, Urgent Questions -- Minister for Transportation - 3 (a); and it is standing in the name of Mr. George Kofi Arthur, Member of Parliament for Amenfi Central.
Mr. E. P. Aidoo 10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the
hon. Member has gone to the hospital and has asked me to ask the Question on his behalf.
Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
Hon. Member, ask the Question on his behalf.
URGENT QUESTIONS 10 a.m.

MINISTRY OF TRANSPORTATION 10 a.m.

Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
Item 4 (b)-- hon. Stephen K. Balado Manu, Member of Parliament for Ahafo-Ano South?
Mr. Kofi Krah Mensah 10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
hon. Balado Manu is unavoidably absent but he has however asked me to ask the Question on his behalf. So I crave your indulgence to ask the Question on his behalf.
Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
Hon. Member for Amansie West, has he asked you?
Mr. K. K. Mensah 10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, yes, he has.
Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
Then go ahead.
MINISTRY OF ENERGY 10 a.m.

Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
Majority Leader, is the Minister for Energy in the House?
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think not, so Mr. Speaker, if we can take Question 655, possibly we may then be in a position to know whether he has finished signing these agreements.
Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
Hon. Members, let us move on to item 4 -- Questions. Question 655 and it is standing in the name of Ms. Akua Sena Dansua, Member of Parliament for North Dayi.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. Colleague is having an urgent meeting with the leadership of the House from our side and has asked me to ask the Question on her behalf.
Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
Hon. Member, that cannot be a good reason; find another reason for that -- [Laughter.]
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 10 a.m.
She is not immediately available, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
That is much better, go ahead.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 10 a.m.

MINISTRY OF TRANSPORTATION 10 a.m.

Minister for Transportation (Mr. F. K. Owusu-Adjapong) 10 a.m.
The replacement of the existing weak bridge between Kpando Agbenoxoe and Kpando Dafor was programmed under an envisaged Polish Bridge programme in 2004.
That programme could not come off due to the suppliers' inability to secure funding support from the Polish Government.
Current Programme
Under the Department of Feeder Roads' bridge development programme, two bridge programmes, namely, the third phase of the Dutch Bridges and the Spanish Bridges Programmes are being firmed up. The Ministry has accordingly decided to include the replacement of the weak bridge between Kpando Agbenoxoe and Kpando Dafor under any of the programmes which materializes.
Ms. Akua Sena Dansua 10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I apologise for coming into the Chamber late but I was doing some other parliamentary work outside, on behalf of the House.
Mr. Speaker 10 a.m.
I accept your first sentence but not the second; but you can go on.
Ms. Akua Sena Dansua 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to know from the Minister when these programmes would be firmed up. He should give us an idea when either the Dutch bridges or the Spanish bridges programmes would be firmed up. Any specific time?
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, we may be doing only guesswork if I
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:10 a.m.


begin to give dates. We are talking to the person who is giving; he has not got any obligation as to when he wants to give. But we are sure that because they have agreed to do the first phase with us, because they have agreed and completed the schedule of supply for the second phase, we believe that they will honour and therefore we need time to find out how the phases are going.

The condition is that, you get to the next phase only after you have finished the first phase. Therefore, let us complete the first phase. Again we said two different programmes, the Spanish and the Dutch, and if we decide to restrict it to only one, we will run the risk that should that one fail and the other one materialize, then we will be seen to have deceived Parliament by shifting to the other one. So she must be more comfortable with this arrangement where we put her as frontliner for any of the two programmes.
Ms. Dansua 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am aware that some bridge projects are ongoing and considering the fact that this Question was asked in 2004, why would the Minister not consider making the Agbenoxoe project one of the priorities for the moment?
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, in fact, it is a priority project because for the first and the second phases, the list of the bridges is already known. For us therefore, to state categorically that it is on the third phase means it is a priority project, unless she wants us to stop those we have already started, where they have already started doing some concreting so that we can shift to hers. That is not technically possible. So it is prioritized and let us rest assured that our Dutch partners and our Spanish friends will go along with the project.
Ms. Dansua 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would
like to know from the Minister if the Agbenoxoe-Kpando Dafor Bridge Project will be implemented by the middle of
2008.
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:10 a.m.
I think she is asking for something that may not be too much in her interest, in that it is our prayer that we should be able to complete the first and second phases in time, within this year, so that we can talk to them about the third phase. So if I go and tell them that we would want it to be next year, possibly I would be prejudicing Ghana's success by way of negotiations with the Dutch.
So let us concentrate on completing the first and the second phases rather than telling the Dutch that we have not got capacity and therefore they should wait for the third phase in 2008, June.
Mr. E. K. D. Adjaho 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister responsible for Transportation when the second phase of the programme will end.
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I will volunteer some information because the Deputy Minority Leader would want to know more.
The understanding we have with the Dutch depends upon our ability to perform. They said if we are able to finish 15 of the bridges, then they will immediately commence the second phase which will be an additional 15 or 16. Then they will consider manufacturing the bridges for the third phase -- [Interruption] -- you will help me to go there. The report is that we have completed 4, but when I recently inspected some of the projects being undertaken by the Ministry, I realized that we seem to have the capacity to complete 14 leaving only one, possibly in a month or two.
So I have asked the Department of Feeder Roads to pool all resources
Mr. Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Majority Leader, is the Minister for Energy in the House?
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, let us stand the Question down because I need to find out whether he is still not working on the additional power facilities he wants to bring us. So if we can stand the Questions down.
rose
Mr. Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Deputy Minority Leader, do you have anything to say?
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, he is just trying to interrupt my presentation -- so that if we can move on to item 6-- [Interruption.]
Mr. Adjaho 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think that the hon. Majority Leader should tell this House where the Minister for Energy is. Mr. Speaker, we are supposed to rise tomorrow; we have a lot of business to do. And he is telling us he is not sure whether he is negotiating something somewhere; but he has a deputy.
Mr. Speaker, this House has always allowed Deputy Ministers to answer Questions for substantive Ministers when they are not here. So the Majority Leader should tell this honourable House where the Minister responsible for Energy is. If there is any time that we need the Energy Minister in this House, this is the time. We are facing an energy crisis in this country and I am surprised that the Minister would not take this House seriously to come and answer Questions.
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I do not think my Colleague, the Deputy Minority Leader, is being fair to the hon. Minister for Energy. He is one of the Ministers who are punctual in this House. He comes to answer Questions and therefore we need to find out. In fact, we should be sympathetic enough to find out where he is rather than to make it look like he is not showing respect to this House.
Mr. Speaker, I would definitely need to go and find out what is happening to him, and that is why I thought that my Colleague, the Deputy Minority Leader, would accept that we move to the next item so that we do not lose man hours. So Mr. Speaker, if you may be kind enough to let us shift to the next item so that I go downstairs to check up when he was last sighted in the office.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
At the Commencement of Public Business - Item 6, Presentation and First Reading of Bills, Minister for Finance and Economic Planning.
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the latest information I have tells how efficient we work. The Minister for Energy is currently in Switzerland on the emergency power supply situation --
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Majority Leader, are you dealing with item 6?
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, because you called me, I thought you wanted to find out what Paper has been brought here. But if we are on item 6, very well.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
We are dealing with item 6.
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:20 a.m.
Then we can go on.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Minister for Finance and Economic Planning?
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to crave your indulgence to allow me to lay the Paper numbered item 6 on behalf of the Minister for Finance and Economic Planning.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Do you have any objection to the Deputy Minister laying it?
Mr. Owusu-Adjapong 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, if he is around I think that would be the best.
BILLS - FIRST READING 10:20 a.m.

Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Item 7.
PAPERS 10:20 a.m.

Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon. Members, let us move on to item 13 - Motion.
rose
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Yes, hon. Member for Lawra-Nandom?
Mr. Kunbuor 10:20 a.m.
Sorry, Mr. Speaker, to take you back to the Joint Committee on Finance, Defence and Interior on the SSNIT loan. We have not sighted even the draft report.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
I wish you had taken objection earlier.
Dr. Kunbuor 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I was just about going through the issues when my attention was drawn to it because the Vice- Chairman promised that we were going to have a discussion this morning on the draft before laying it. I have been here as early as 9.30 a.m. I just want to have an opportunity to see it.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
I will suggest you take it up with the Leadership.
Dr. Kunbuor 10:20 a.m.
That is so.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Item 13.
BILLS - THIRD READING 10:20 a.m.

Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Item 14.
BILLS -- THIRD READING 10:20 a.m.

Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon. Members, let us move on to item 33 -- Chairman of the Committee?
Mr. E. K. D. Adjaho 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I just need your guidance regarding item 14 that was read the Third time and passed. I want to know whether it is 2007 or 2006. We are in 2007 and we are passing the Bill in 2007. This is for the records. I just want your guidance as to why it is 2006.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning, is it 2007 or 2006?
Prof. G. Y. Gyan-Baffour 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, it is 2007. I think the amendment Bill in parenthesis is 2007.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
I understand it is 2006. Hon. Members, let us take the procedural motion - Item 32.
Deputy Majority Leader (Mr. Abraham Ossei Aidooh): Mr. Speaker, I would like to move this motion on behalf of the Chairman of the Committee.
Suspension of Standing Order 80 (1)
Mr. Abraham Ossei Aidooh (on behalf of the Minister for National Security) 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 80 (1) which require that no motion shall be debated until at least forty-eight hours have elapsed between the date on which notice of the motion is given and the date on which the motion
is moved, the motion for the adoption of the Report of the Committee of the Whole on the Proposed Formula for Sharing the District Assemblies Common Fund for the Year 2007 may be moved today.
Mr. Haruna Iddrisu 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to second the motion.
Question put and motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
Mr. Speaker 10:20 a.m.
We can now take item 33 -- Chairman of the Committee.
MOTIONS 10:20 a.m.

Mr. A. O. Aidooh 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that this honourable House adopts the Report of the Committee of the Whole on the Proposed Formula for Sharing the District Assemblies Common Fund for the Year 2007. Mr. Speaker, in doing so I also wish to present the Report of the Committee and if you permit me I will just read a portion of it and ask Hansard to capture the whole Report as having been read.
1.0 Background and Introduction
Article 252 (2) of the 1992 Constitution of Ghana and the District Assemblies Common Fund Act (1993), Act 455 mandates Parliament to make provision for the allocation of not less than five per cent (5%) of the total revenue of Ghana to the District Assemblies Common Fund for the implementation of development pro- grammes in the Metropolitan, Municipal and District Assemblies. Section 7 (a) of the District Assemblies Common Fund Act (1993), Act 455 also requires the Administrator of the District Assemblies

Common Fund to propose annually for the approval of Parliament a Formula for Sharing the Common Fund to the District Assemblies.

In pursuance of article 252 (2) of the 1992 Constitution and section 7 (a) of the District Assemblies Common Fund (DACF) Act (1993), Act 455, the hon. Majority Leader and Minister for Parliamentary Affairs, Mr. F. K. Owusu- Adjapong, on Thursday, 15th March, 2007 laid before Parliament the Proposed Formula for Sharing the 2007 District Assemblies Common Fund.

Mr. Speaker referred the Proposed Formula to the Committee of the Whole for consideration and report.

The Committee of the Whole met on Tuesday, 20th March, 2007, deliberated on the Proposed Formula and accordingly reports:

3.0 Acknowledgement

The Committee acknowledges the contribution of Members and the under- listed State Officials who participated in the deliberations:

i. The hon. Minister for Finance and Economic Planning.

ii. The hon. Minister for Local Government, Rural Development and Environment.

iii. The Administrator of the District Assemblies Common Fund and his officials.

4.0 References

The Committee of the Whole in considering the proposed formula referred to the following documents:
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 10:20 a.m.
district with the view to addressing imbalances in the level of develop- ment.
ii. Responsive Factor -- That
the sharing should motivate the Districts to generate more local revenue for their development.
iii. Equality Factor -- Districts should have access to some minimum level of funding.
iv. Service Pressure Factor -- Urban areas should be compensated for the overutilisation of their facilities.
v. Reserve -- There should be a reserve fund to cater for contin- gencies and bulk purchases for the districts and also cater for the monitoring and evaluation of the districts by the Office of the Administrator.
6.0 Proposals for 2007
In the 2007 Budget, the proposed allocation into the District Assemblies Common Fund (DACF) was one trillion, six hundred and twenty-six billion, seven hundred million cedis
(¢1,626,700,000,000.00).
The Committee noted that the Population data used for sharing the 2007 DACF was from the 2000 National Population Census. This is intended to ensure reliability and fairness of the Formula.
The factors and indicators used this year are as follows:
A. Need Factor
(a) Health (i) Facilities
(ii) Doc/Pop. Ratio
(iii) Nurses/Pop. Ratio
(b) Education (i) Facilities
(ii) Teacher/Pupil Ratio
(c) Water Water Coverage
(d) Roads Proportion of Tarred Roads
B. Responsiveness Factor Revenue Improvement
C. Service Pressure Population Density
D. Equality Factor No indicators are required
E. Sanitation Factor
The Sanitation Fund is to be shared among the Metropolitan and Municipal Assemblies with 10 per cent of the allocated percentage set aside as reserve.
Proposed Weighting Scenarios
Three (3) different scenarios for weighting were presented in the Proposed Formula. These Scenarios have been obtained by varying the weights for the Need Factor, Service Pressure, Responsiveness and the Equalisation Factors.
These are represented by Scenarios A, B and C as follows:
Factor Scenario A Scenario B Scenario C
%
% % % %

%

Equality 45 50 40

Need 40 40 40

Health Facilities 6 6 6

Doc/Pop. 7 7 6

Nurse/Pop. 7 7

6

Educ. Facilities 6 7

5

Tr/Pup. 6 7 6

Water Coverage 5 4 6

Tarred Roads 3 2

5

Improvement

Responsiveness 10 5

10

Improvement

Service Pressure 5 5 10

—— —— ——

==== ==== ====

Ten per cent of the Common Fund will be set aside as Reserve and an additional 15 per cent set aside to manage sanitation in the country. These are deducted before the formula is applied to the remaining 75 per cent.

The Reserve fund is set aside for the purpose of:

1) Funding MP's Constituency Project -- 6 per cent

2) Funding Regional Co-ordinating Councils -- 1.5 per cent

3) Counterpart Fund of Project --1per

cent

4) Office of the Administrator -- 0.5 per cent

5) Contingency Fund -- 1per cent

7 .0 Analys i s o f the Scenar ios and Adoption of Scenario B

Simple correlation analysis of the three scenarios shows that under Scenario A, 37 Districts received their highest amounts. Under Scenario B, 75 Districts received their highest amounts while

under Scenario C, 26 Districts received their highest amounts. However, the highest allocation of ¢21.089 billion was for AMA and the lowest of ¢5.998 billion was for Kpando District. As a result, Scenario B becomes the best and the obvious choice for adoption.

8.0 Observations

The Committee observed that the

Formula for Sharing the 2007 District Assemblies Common Fund is not different from what was used in 2006. All the factors were maintained. However, there were variations in the percentages applied. The Committee made a number of observations among which were:

i. Increment of the Fund from 5 per cent to 7.5 per cent

Hon. Members expressed strong desire for the Fund to be increased from 5 per cent to 7.5 per cent of the total national income. This, in the Committee's view will resource the districts to perform their developmental programmes more effectively. It was however observed that any increase in the Fund would require transfer of additional responsibility and expenditure from the Central Government to the Districts. Therefore the suggestion needs to be carefully considered.

ii. Sanitation Fund

The Committee observed that Funds have been allocated to fourteen (14) Metropolitan and Municipal Assemblies for their Sanitation Programmes. However, some Members were of the view that the problem of sanitation does not only pertain to Metropolitan and Municipal Assemblies but also to small towns. They were therefore of the view that portion of

the Sanitation Fund should be distributed among Assemblies.

iii. Sources of Data for Sharing

Some members expressed concern about the reliability of the sources of some basic data used in arriving at the proposed formula for sharing of the Common Fund. They then suggested that the Office of the Administrator should also endeavour to visit the various districts to ascertain the validity or otherwise of the data being used.

iv. Conflict between MPs and DCEs

The Committee observed that the current practice where the Members of Parliaments' share of the DACF is transferred to the district for the District Chief Executives to disburse is making it difficult for Members of Parliament (MPs) to use their funds. Members suggested that the MPs' share of the Common Fund should be retained either by the Ministry of Local Government, Rural Development and Environment or by the Office of Administrator of the Common Fund.

v. Reserve Fund

The Committee observed that the Reserve Fund has been increased from 15 per cent to 25 per cent of the Common Fund.

9.0 Recommendations

The Committee makes the following recommendations:

i. Steps should be taken to urge the Executive on the need to increase the Common Fund from 5 per cent to 7.5 per cent.

ii. A Committee be set up with all
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 10:20 a.m.


urgency by Parliament to look into the modalities and processes of MPs' accessing their share of the Common Fund with least difficulty.

iii. Ten per cent of the 15 per cent allocation for sanitation should be set aside for Sanitation Manage- ment under the National Youth Employment Programme (NYEP).

iv. Develop mechanisms whereby all Districts will benefit from the Sanitation Fund and also ensure that those who create garbage are made to pay for it.

v. Increase MPs' share of the Common Fund from 5 per cent to 6 per cent by creaming off 1 per cent of the share of the Regional Co-ordinating Councils (RCCs) from 2.5 per cent to 1.5 per cent.

10.0 Conclusion

The amount of one trillion, six hundred and twenty-six billion, seven hundred million cedis (¢1,626,700,000,000.00) allocated in the November, 2006 Budget Statement and Economic Policy of the Government as District Assemblies Common Fund has already been approved by Parliament.

The Committee, having satisfied itself with the Proposed Formula for Sharing the District Assemblies Common Fund for 2007, accordingly recommends for its approval by the House.

Respectfully submitted.
Mr. E. K. D. Adjaho 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, it appears the Minister for National Security has infiltrated your Table Office. Mr. Speaker, if you look at item 32, the motion stands in the name of the Minister for National Security -- [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Yes, I have noticed it; it is an error.
Mr. Dominic A. Azumah (NDC -- Garu/Tempane) 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I rise to second the motion. Mr. Speaker, in doing so, I have a few comments to make on the Report and I appeal to my Colleagues to adopt the Report fully.
Mr. Speaker, in considering the Formula, some four key critical issues came up. First was the data used by the Administrator in formulating the Formula. It appears that there is no credible data in most of the districts and so the Common Fund Administrator is relying on some old information to develop the indicators, and it is the wish of the House that the Common Fund Administrator should do his best to visit almost all the districts to have first-hand data information from them to enable him develop the 2008 Formula very accurately.
Mr. Speaker, on the second point,
there has been a slight increase in the sanitation grant or fund and this is to cater for the National Youth Employment Programme. Indeed, currently each district is appointing 25 youth to take care of sanitation and this amount was limited to only Metropolitan and Municipal Assemblies. It is the wish of the House that this amount now be shared among all the 138 District Assemblies.
They should all benefit because garbage as we all know is spread all over the country and not only in the cities. So it is the wish that if this is adopted, it will go a long way to assist most
District Assemblies to kind of address the sanitation problems in the districts.
Mr. Speaker, the Common Fund has been in existence since 1994 and it is the wish of all that the Auditor-General, from time to time, should try and do some performance audit in some of these districts to see the impact of the Common Fund in the districts. This will help us to know where we are growing and where the lapses are. So it is an appeal that the Auditor-General should consider seriously, after having tried it since 1994, to conduct performance audit on these Assemblies to see how we are doing.
Lastly, Mr. Speaker, it came out clearly
that hon. Members are having difficulty accessing their share of the MPs' Common Fund especially where they have problems with their District Chief Executives (DCEs) and it is the intention of this House that the DCEs be clearly told that it is the responsibility of the MPs to see to it that their share is properly used for what it is intended for.
There should not be any hindrance in their way at all in accessing this Fund, and it is our appeal that, if possible, MPs could access the fund directly from the Common Fund Administrator or through some other means. Indeed, the House agreed that a committee be set up to look into this matter and come out with an acceptable procedure by which Members can access their Common Fund.
Again, we realize that most MPs are not being invited to district tender committee meetings where the use of the Common Fund, especially in award of contracts, is being done. Some DCEs deliberately would send invitation letters to MPs when the meeting is due in 24 hours knowing very well that it is not possible for that
MP to be able to make it. It is a matter of concern to this House and we hope that the Minister for Local Government, Rural Development and Environment will send a clear message to the DCEs that it is the legal right of the MPs to represent Parliament in the tender committee meetings so that there can be at least transparency in whatever they are doing.
It would go a long way to disabuse the minds of hon. Members concerning alleged underground dealings in some of the projects, if MPs were involved in the award or were present in the meetings.
Mr. Speaker, with these few comments, I urge my Colleagues to adopt the Report and let it go through.
Question proposed.
Minister for Manpower, Youth and Employment (Alhaji A. S. Boniface) 10:30 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the proposal before us and in doing so, I wish to commend the Committee for being so objective and pragmatic in their decision, especially when you look at the issue of sanitation, where they are requesting and proposing that 10 per cent of the 15 per cent be set aside for the National Youth Employment Programme. I believe this they did with all circumspection, in the sense that sanitation first of all would enhance the life of the people of this country; and I expect that the lifespan of the people will increase.
Secondly, it will also generate a lot of employment for the youth in this country. We realize that in doing so, we are going to indirectly reduce poverty in the system; and in reducing poverty, it will lead to reduction in conflicts since some conflicts are caused by reason of unemployment in the system. I believe this will also ease the tension on most of the MPs whose youth in various constituencies and districts have
Minister for Manpower, Youth and Employment (Alhaji A. S. Boniface) 10:30 a.m.


been putting pressure on them because they do not have jobs and are unemployed.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to commend the Committee for what they have done and I believe all Members will adopt this and Colleagues on both sides will support and vote for it overwhelmingly.
Mr. E. K. D. Adjaho (NDC -- Avenor/Ave) 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, to a very large extent the Committee's Report captured the discussion that took place in the Committee of the Whole.
Mr. Speaker, under “RECOMMEN-
DATIONS”, (ii), where hon. Members of Parliament complained about problems in accessing their share of the Common Fund, the Committee took note and rightly recommended that they should put in place modalities to enable hon. Members access the Common Fund.
Mr. Speaker, I just want to recount an experience an hon. Member of Parliament went through only last week. He was in my office last week and came to complain to me that he wrote to his District Assembly through the District Chief Executive (DCE) to be allowed to sponsor a student in one of the tertiary institutions. When the letter got to the District Chief Executive and the beneficiary and the parent went to see him, he said “no”, and accused them of forgery.
Without talking to the hon. Member of Parliament, he said they forged the hon. Member's signature and called the police to arrest the beneficiary. And he (the MP) had to call the police to tell them that that was his signature before the police released the person. It has become increasingly clear that hon. Members of this House are caught in some of these embarrassing situations. And I dare say
that it is a practice that was there during the National Democratic Congress (NDC) period and it is there during the New Patriotic Party (NPP) period.
I believe that the time has come for this House to look at the modalities, to look at ways and means for Members of Parliament to access their share of the Common Fund. And Mr. Speaker, it will be a very good idea if a decision can be taken on this matter, that is to set up a small committee to work on this, before we go on recess tomorrow.
Mr. Speaker, if you look at recommen- dation (v), the Committee also agreed, but it has not been captured in the Report, that hon. Members of Parliament should be able to use part of their share of the Fund to monitor their projects. If the Regional Co-ordinating Councils are monitoring the projects of the Common Fund, how come the Members of Parliament who initiate some of these projects cannot be assisted and facilitated to monitor their projects? The Committee agreed to that but it has not been captured there.
Mr. Speaker, it is very, very important especially in this era of causing financial loss to the state, and for the avoidance of all doubt, so that people are not hauled before the Fast Track High Court, that the monitoring component of the use of the Member of Parliament's share of the Common Fund is captured in this Report.
First, it will make the District Chief Executives aware that we can use part of this money for the monitoring of our projects. Secondly, when the auditors also go in to audit our books, they will not say that we have misapplied or we have taken money and used it for some other purpose.
Mr. Speaker, that is the decision of the Committee. Fortunately, the hon. Chairman of the Committee is here. It is important to capture this decision of the
Committee clearly in the Report to put all matters beyond doubt.
Thank you, very much. Mr. Speaker, I support the Committee's Report.
Chairman of the Committee of the Whole (Mr. F. W. Blay) 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, what my good Friend, the hon. Deputy Minority Leader has just said is exactly what happened. Indeed, it was canvassed, and we agreed to that issue, that there must be a component for hon. Members of Parliament to monitor projects that are ongoing in their various constituencies.
Mr. Speaker, I am sorry, it was a little oversight and it must be put on record. The Hansard should capture that we all agreed that some part or some portion of the 1 per cent that is supposed to accrue from the Regional Co-ordinating Council should be used, of course, justifiably, for monitoring the activities in the various constituencies.
Mr. Lee Ocran (NDC -- Jomoro) 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the recommen- dations made. However, I have a little problem with the Youth Employment Programme, and I am happy the hon. Minister is here.
rose
Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon. Minister, do you have a point of order to raise?
Alhaji Boniface 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. Member is misleading the House that I was staring at him. I was only looking at that direction -- [Laughter.]
Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon. Member for Jomoro, please continue.
Mr. Ocran 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, let me emphaise here, with due respect, that all young men and women in every district should be given opportunity to be employed. There are some DCEs who are telling people, right in their faces, that these jobs are for their party members. It is not so -- I mean some DCEs --
Alhaji Boniface 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, it is true that the hon. Member has complained to me on several occasions and I have taken measures to arrest such a problem. And I can assure the whole House and the whole country that this particular programme is not on partisanship -- [Uproar] -- Not at all.
Mr. Speaker 10:40 a.m.
You should not be distracted.
Alhaji Boniface 10:40 a.m.
I have been on television with the hon. Gentleman over there and he has accepted before the whole country that this is one of the best programmes he has seen; and he has been with me all the time.
Mr. Ocran 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, it is true the hon. Minister has promised to look at the problem but he has not arrested the problem as he claims. He has promised to look at the problem but the problem is still there. So now that the funds have been increased, I believe he will make it quite clear to his people that all people who need employment should be given.
Also, those who have been employed for sanitation should not be seen at dawn
Mr. Ocran 10:40 a.m.


sweeping just by the side of the road and pushing polythene bags into the drains. They do not sweep the drains. Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minister should come to East Legon, not Bubiashie, and see. They sweep the polythene bags into the drains and leave them there. This is not what I believe they have been employed to do. They are to keep our environment clean.

So, Mr. Speaker, with these few comments, I support the motion.
Minister of State (Mr. Kwadwo Adjei-Darko) 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, in supporting the motion, I want to draw the attention of the House to certain things which I feel should be corrected.
Mr. Speaker, if you look at the recommendations -- and I hope the hon. Minister for Manpower, Youth and Employment is listening. Mr. Speaker, we are saying that 10 per cent of the 15 per cent. Mr. Speaker, this is different from 67 per cent -- I hope the intention of the House is not to take 10 per cent of the 15 per cent.
The intention of the House is to take two-thirds of that amount so that 10 per cent will be earmarked for that purpose and 5 per cent will remain for another purpose. In that respect, the language should be 67 per cent of the 15 per cent; that is the mathematical language. This is because, as it is now, if for example the total amount is ¢150 million, 10 per cent of ¢150 million will work up to ¢15 million. Whilst 67 per cent of ¢150 million will work up to ¢100 million. And I think the language should be proper. It should be 67 per cent of the 15 per cent.
Then also, if you come to point number
five, the Regional Co-ordinating Councils, over all Common Fund, they were getting
Mr. Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu (NPP- - Suame) 10:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I associate myself with the recommendations of the Committee except to make some observations.
Mr. Speaker, on page 6 of the Committee's Report, that is under the caption 10:50 a.m.
“Increment of the Fund from 5 per cent to 7.5 per cent”, we are told that hon. Members expressed the strong desire for the Fund to be increased from 5 per cent to 7.5 per cent. Mr. Speaker, this is a recommendation from the Committee to this House. I am not too sure about the intendment of this recommendation because we are told that it is only a desire by some of the members of the Committee.
Listening to hon. Azumah, the Ranking Member for the Committee, I got the impression that it is supposed to be a request from the Committee to this House, that the Fund should be increased from 5 per cent to 7.5 per cent. But as has been captured in the Report, it is only a desire by some members, and I do not think that it captures the motive of the Committee.

Again, Mr. Speaker, yes, the reliability of some of the basic data is questionable. If you look at the health facilities in Kumasi Metropolis, for instance, and compare the health facilities in the Bekwai district, one realizes that Bekwai supposedly has more

health facilities than Kumasi Metropolis, which is incorrect. So they are talking about the reliability of some of the basic data that have been used.

Again, the Committee indicates to us that they are questioning the source of the data and not the data itself. So it confuses us what they really mean to portray to this House. Mr. Speaker, on the same page 6 -- Sources of Data for Sharing, that is (iii) --

‘Some members expressed concern about the reliability of the sources of some basic data . . .'

Mr. Speaker, I think it is the reliability of the basic data that they are talking about and not the sources. So I thought we should be very clear in our minds about what indeed we are doing? But I agree that the performance audit that they talked about should be something that we should request the Auditor-General to perform. Because, if they spread themselves thinly to cover every blade of grass, eventually they might end up producing nothing; but we do know that there are serious disparities and discrepancies in the use of the fund.

For instance, a six-classroomed block is constructed in a particular district and we are told that the cost is around ¢600 million. We have the same six-class- roomed block in another district and we are told it cost ¢400 million. There are serious discrepancies. And for all you know, if one goes to ascertain the structural reliability of the ¢400 million facility, one perhaps may realize that that is even far stronger than the ¢600 million or ¢800 million facility.

So there need to be a concord in the quantities that are submitted, the work that is done, and there should be uniformity in
Mr. Abdul-Rashid Pelpuo (NDC -- Wa Central) 10:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I rise to support this Report but to urge the hon. Minister for Local Government, Rural Development and Environment who is directly responsible for the Municipal Chief Executives (MCEs) and District Chief Executives (DCEs), to ensure that what is legally accepted as performance of a task by them should be followed.
The Report has indicated and recommended that Parliament should have a committee that will sit down to look at the possibilities of getting DCEs to respond more forcefully to the fact that Members of Parliament would have access to their Common Fund with ease. I think that we may be going round the point.
The issue is that there is a legal issue and they have to make sure that when Members of Parliament make a request for their Common Fund they get it. But if DCEs are made to feel that their whims and caprices will be what determines whether Members of Parliament get their Common Fund or not, Mr. Speaker, we are side-stepping the rules and the hon. Minister should definitely come in here and ensure that he makes them perform the tasks which they are charged to perform.
Mr. Speaker, again, I want to go back to the same point about this Youth and

Employment Fund. The idea is very bright and from the hon. Minister's point of view, it is non-partisan and it is expected to benefit the youth of Ghana regardless of where they come from. But at places where the fund is disbursed, at the district, municipality, and consti-tuency levels, the officers down there are not getting the message clearly and I would urge the hon. Minister, once he has made it clear before the whole nation that this is a non- partisan issue, to go deeper than that to the constituency level and to the districts and everywhere.

Again, if there is the need, committees should be formed and the committees should involve all people across board so that we do not have some other shareholders feeling that they have been left out because of their partisan perspective or maybe gender or whatever the case. We appreciate the fact that the hon. Minister has made it very clear that this is a non-partisan issue and he has been working on that.

But he should go deeper than that. I think that when that is done it would give more meaning to the fact that Parliament has taken money from the Consolidated Fund that is meant for everybody, to support this project and that it is not supposed to be a partisan issue.

Deputy Minority Whip (Ms. Akua Sena Dansua): Mr. Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the motion on the floor of the House.

Mr. Speaker, I want to support the motion by saying that the recommen- dation to increase the Common Fund from 5 per cent to 7.5 per cent should be taken seriously because this proposal has been making the rounds for so long now, and no conclusive decision has been taken on it. So I want to suggest that before the next Formula is presented to this House,
Mr. Abdul-Rashid Pelpuo (NDC -- Wa Central) 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the second point I want to make is about the committee. It has been proposed that a committee be set up to work out the modalities for accessing the fund by Members of Parliament. Mr. Speaker, the House had proposed that this thing be done before we approve the Formula today, but looking at the time limitation I want to say that the committee be set up immediately and its recommen- dations made before we start accessing the funds in a few months' time. I believe that it should be captured in the records that the committee's decision should take immediate effect or should take effect from this year.
Mr. Speaker, the other issue has to do with the one per cent that is to be set aside for monitoring by Members of Parliament. The figure one per cent looks small but in terms of quantum I think that it will be too much for monitoring. Mr. Speaker, the reason why I am saying this is that if we leave the one per cent, it will be left to the discretion of the DCE or whoever is disbursing the fund to either give us more or less. So 50 per cent of the 1 per cent should be specifically set aside for monitoring by Members of Parliament, and I think that would be better than leaving it open.

Then Mr. Speaker, the last point has to do with the National Youth Employment Programme (NYEP). I hope the Minister is listening. The National Youth Employment Programme -- Mr. Speaker, it has been said and reported in several places that some of the Co-ordinators are taking advantage of the women - [Interruptions.] It has been reported, let
rose
Mr. Speaker 11 a.m.
Hon. Member for Jomoro, do you have a point of order?
Mr. Ocran 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. Member for North Dayi is trying to take undue advantage of the Domestic Violence Bill to make certain allegations against men. She has no proof and therefore I think she should withdraw the statement she is making.
Ms. Dansua 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to urge the Minister for Manpower, Youth and Employment to investigate what I am saying because the records are there. If you go out, the allegations are there; they will tell you exactly what the Co-ordinators are doing. We should not brush this thing aside.
rose
Mr. Speaker 11 a.m.
Minister for Manpower, Youth and Employment, do you have a point of order?
Alhaji Boniface 11 a.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as the Minister for that sector, I have not received any report and there is nowhere in this country where there is any report that there is any harassment, especially when we have passed this Domestic Violence Bill. It would be very, very suicidal for somebody to say that people take undue advantage of them.
Several times, I have spoken to the hon. Member of Parliament. We even have women co-ordinators; no one has reported of any harassment whatsoever - [Interruption] -- or of the women harassing the men.
Mr. Speaker 11 a.m.
Deputy Minority Chief Whip, please conclude your contribution.
Ms. Dansua 11 a.m.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want the Minister to take this report seriously and do his investigations and he will come out with the truth.
With these few words, Mr. Speaker, I support the motion and I urge all hon. Members to support it.
Question put and motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
Mr. Speaker 11 a.m.
We shall move on to item 16 -- Motion -- Minister for Manpower, Youth and Employment?
Alhaji Boniface 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, before I move the motion, I want to crave your indulgence to go back to the Committee's Report, especially under the Recommen- dations, items 3 and 5 where it was said “10 per cent of the 15 per cent”.
Alhaji Boniface 11 a.m.
Page 7 of the Formula; no, the correction.
Mr. Speaker, it should be “10 per cent
out of the 15 per cent.”
Mr. Speaker 11 a.m.
Which one are you referring to?
Alhaji Boniface 11 a.m.
Recommendations of the Common Fund Formula.
Mr. Speaker 11 a.m.
We are dealing with item 16.
Alhaji Boniface 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the correction was not made and I want to draw -- [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker 11 a.m.
You may do it later but
Mr. Speaker 11 a.m.


not now. We are now dealing with item 16.
Mr. Adjaho 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, with the greatest respect, you are right because after you put the Question any attempt by any of us to raise this matter would be wrong. But Mr. Speaker, with the greatest respect we are talking about a Formula which borders on mathematics; so we have to get the mathematics correct, for purposes of auditing. So we are pleading with you to allow the hon. Minister to correct the mathematics -- only the mathematics for the records.
Mr. Speaker 11 a.m.
You are pleading with me but I say we would do so later. That is what I am saying.
Mr. Adjaho 11 a.m.
I bow to the Chair.
Mr. Speaker 11 a.m.
Yes, later. Item 16 now.
BILLS -- SECOND READING 11 a.m.

Minister for Manpower, Youth and Employment (Alhaji Abu-Bakar Saddique Boniface) 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that the Fair Wages and Salaries Commission Bill be read a Second time.
Question proposed.
Chairman of the Committee (Mr. Paul Okoh) 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the report of the Committee.
Mr. Speaker, I will only read the Recommendation and Conclusion and plead that the Hansard captures the full Report as having been read.
1.0 Introduction
The Fair Wages and Salaries Com- mission Bill was laid before the House
Chairman of the Committee (Mr. Paul Okoh) 11 a.m.


The Committee observed, with pleasure, the benefits that would be associated with the passage of the law which include being the panacea to the difficulties associated with the unco- ordinated salary and wage negotiations, characteristic of the current wages and salary administration.

The establishment of the Fair Wages and Salaries Commission which is a direct result of the passage of the Bill is to occasion the cessation of the activities of all other agencies which had responsibility for the classification of salaries and negotiation of terms and conditions of service for public servants including the Public Services Commission which will cede its functions relative to conditions of service of Public Servants.

The Commission, once created, will be fully responsible for ensuring fair, transparent and systematic implemen- tation of Government Public Service Pay Policy; be the only adviser to Government on related matters; and undertake negotiations for conditions of service of Public Servants who are remunerated from the Consolidated Fund.

By its modus operandi, the Commission is to develop and explore a consistent review of standard job evaluation methodology and also develop and ensure the implementation of grading and classification structures.

The Committee observed that these functions of the Commission will in conjunction with others, ensure the creation of standards and harmony within the public service salary and wage administration. By this also, employees will be placed on their proper scales and thus eliminate disparities in the public

sector pay structure.

3.0 Equity and Enhanced Productivity

In relation to the aforementioned, the uniformity in public salary and wage administration which the establishment of the Fair Wages and Salaries Commission will engender, will create confidence in the public service system as a result of the principle of equity which will be the crux of its work.

In effect, the Committee observed, there will not only be equal pay for equal work but there will also be equal pay for work of equal value. These will boost public worker confidence and serve as a catalyst for enhanced productivity.

Rule of Law

A remarkable feature of the Bill is its creation of standards and avenues for redress of complaints/petitions.

The Committee observed with great satisfaction the functions of the Commission as they relied significantly on objectivity as opposed to subjectivity and by extension relegated discretion to the background. As indicated earlier, standards were to be set with consistent and periodic reviews which would be applied to defined cases.

Besides, the Bill provides for avenues to seek redress through the Grievance Review Committee, the Board of the Commission and then, the National Labour Commission.

This, the Committee observed, was in fulfilment of the application of the rule of law and was vital in creating industrial harmony with the potential to attract investment into the country for

development.

4.0 Recommendation/Conclusion

Having regard to the importance of a peaceful and stable labour environment to national development and realizing the role of the Fair Wages and Salaries Commission in creating that conducive atmosphere for public services to perform effectively to further create the rightful climate for businesses to thrive, more especially in the era of the golden age of business, the Committee recommends that all efforts be made to adequately finance and resource the Commission for the effective discharge of its functions.

In conclusion, the Committee recom- mends to the House to pass the Bill into law subject to the consideration of the attached proposed amendments.

APPENDIX 1

Proposed Amendments

i. Page 3, clause 2 (b), insert “develop and” between “to” and “advice” and “on” between “Government” and “and”.

ii. Page 3, clause 2 (c), delete “manage and co-ordinate” and insert “undertake”.

iii. Page 3, clause 3 (d), delete “evaluation” after “consistent” and insert “review”.

iv. Page 3, clause 3 (f), after “position” delete the words from “manage” to “consistent”.

v. Page 3, clause 3 (g), insert “processes and” between “bargaining”, “agreements”.
Minister for Public Sector Reforms (Dr. Paa Kwesi Nduom) 11 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the motion but in so doing I would like to draw attention to a couple of items in the Report that we need to correct.
Mr. Speaker, on page 3 of the Report,
section 2.1, the second paragraph talks about cessation of the activities of all other agencies that have responsibility for the classification of salaries and negotiation of terms and conditions of service of public servants, including the Public Services
Minister for Public Sector Reforms (Dr. Paa Kwesi Nduom) 11 a.m.


Commission which the Report says will cede its functions relative to conditions of service of public servants.

Mr. Speaker, we cannot do this. It is the Public Services Commission in the Bill itself which will cede some of its functions and so we must be careful about that. There are provisions in the Constitution which we cannot touch, and so we must be careful in saying “some of its func-tions” and not “its functions”.

Number two, Mr. Speaker, the last

paragraph also says that this Commission would be the only adviser to Government on related matters that have to do with Public Service Pay Policy. Mr. Speaker, the Commission cannot be the only adviser to Government. The Ministry of Manpower, Youth and Employment is there; other Ministries are there; other parts of Government are there. So it would be an adviser to Government on pay policy, but not the only adviser.
Mr. Haruna Iddrisu (NDC -- Tamale South) 11:10 a.m.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity to associate myself with the motion and the Bill which seeks to create a Fair Wages and Salaries Commission.
Mr. Speaker, it is important that we have a very stable labour environment in order to enhance productivity for our country. I believe that this initiative is only giving meaning to what used to be a purely administrative practice. I remember that there used to be what we call the Central Management Board which hitherto had responsibility to oversee the kind of function that is being given to this Fair Wages and Salaries Commission.

But Mr. Speaker, with all respect, what the workers of this country need is not in
Mr. Agyemang-Manu 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I just want my hon. Colleague to accept the fact that when the rate of inflation begins to drop and nominal income goes up we increase the value of whatever we put into anybody's pocket. [Hear! Hear!]
Mr. H. Iddrisu 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
Mr. Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon. Member, I hope you are concluding.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 11:10 a.m.
Sorry, Mr. Speaker, I wanted to say former Deputy Minister -- [Laughter.]
Mr. Speaker 11:10 a.m.
I hope you are con- cluding?
Mr. H. Iddrisu 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, my apolo-gies. I withdraw the word; I meant former Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning. He knows I have enormous respect for him even before he became a Minister. Sorry about that.
Mr. Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon. Member, are you concluding?
Mr. H. Iddrisu 11:10 a.m.
Rightly so, Mr.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, with respect to my hon. Colleague, I think he is getting a bit wayward. [Inter-ruptions.]
Mr. Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Order! Order!
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am getting up on point of relevance. Really, if my hon. Colleague does not understand -- First of all, Mr. Speaker, let me put it to him that what he has said, the so-called collapse of the system that he is alluding to is not attributable to the inefficiencies in the performance of the NPP Administration. He knows that.
Mr. Speaker, this kind of playing to the gallery will not help him. But to the kernel of the matter, I think my hon. Colleague is gallivanting somewhere and failing to address the substance of the Bill before us.
Mr. Speaker, what has what he is saying got to do with the Report and even the kernel of the matter that we are dealing with? He should come home and address the substantive matter before us.
Mr. Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon. Member for Tamale South, you assured me you were concluding. Please, conclude.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, to quote the hon. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu, the germane of this is about public wages, and health workers belong to the public sector. We are talking about an entity to rationalise salaries and to make recommendations for consolidation. Look at the functions of the Commission; they say they are to do other things in relation to consolidation of salaries. I am just saying that they have done well by moving from an administrative set-up which used to be the Central Management Board and wanting to create a legal entity; and I am saying that merely creating institutions is not enough. Indeed, he could ask the able Minister for Defence whether the point I made about additional duty allowance is true or not. He supervises the 37 Military Hospital and he could be very useful -- [Interruptions.]
rose
Mr. Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Minister for Defence, do you have a point of order?
Dr. Addo-Kufuor 11:10 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want the hon. Member to know that the Defence Minister has nothing to do with the administration of the health services of this country. [Laughter.]
Mr. H. Iddrisu 11:10 a.m.
In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I think that it is commendable and I hope that when the entity is finally created they would be able to rationalise public sector wages. But we must endeavour to improve upon the
Mr. Oppon-Kusi (NPP - Ofoase/ Ayirebi) 11:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to add my voice to the debate on the floor and to say that I am particularly glad that this Bill has come at this time.
When the issue of the Fair Wages and Salaries Commission was mentioned in the Budget, there were many who thought that this thing was a gimmick by the Government to buy time. So the urgency with which the Ministry has treated this Bill shows the commitment of this Government in addressing this age-old problem.

Mr. Speaker, we all admit that the problem of wages has been with us for a very long time. And like my hon. Friend on the opposite side said, we have had administrative structures to deal with these things, all to no avail.

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is

that a commission is very different from an administrative structure and that is why this should inspire confidence in the labour front. A commission that is backed by a law such as this will inspire confidence in both groups which constitute the labour front, that is, employers and employees.

Mr. Speaker, the Bill seeks to address

a very basic problem that has to do with wages. The first that I would like to refer to in paragraph three of the Report is Equity and Enhanced Productivity.

Mr. Speaker, inequity, whether real or imagined, can cause a lot of problems on the labour front. So this Bill seeks to make

sure that equity is not only talked about but is made real by making sure that there is somebody there who acts as a referee to help us when we have wage or labour difficulties.

Another point that the Bill seeks to address is the rule of law and this is in line with this Government's commitment to good governance and the rule of law. Mr. Speaker, when we have standards and avenues for redress of complaints, people cease to take the law into their own hands, take to the streets as we have been experiencing. So it is my hope that with the passage of this law all of us will contribute our quota, we will see the need to use the Commission instead of going on strikes; we will address all wage issues to this Commission so that together, we will all be able to build a stable economy and then be able to increase productivity, and like my hon. Friend said, we will be able to pay ourselves the amount of wages that we deserve. Until we address productivity, until we address equity and until we back this rule of law, we will continue having problems on the labour front.

With this, Mr. Speaker, I support the motion.
Mr. J. Y. Chireh (NDC -- Wa West) 11:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I rise also to support the motion for the Second Reading of this Bill. In doing so, Mr. Speaker, I want to draw attention to the fact that this is a relatively new institution that is being introduced in terms of law and their existing bodies, legal or otherwise. If we do not clarify in this law what roles we are asking them to play there will be a problem.
For instance, in the Report we have the Grievance Review Committee, we also have the National Labour Commission which is also to resolve differences between employees and employers over conditions of service, salaries and what
Mr. J. Y. Chireh (NDC -- Wa West) 11:30 a.m.
have you.
Again, if we do not define properly the relationships, this body which is supposed to be advisory to Government would become a centre of complaints from people who have grievances; and I think that we should look at it clearly.
Again, if you look at what the hon. Member for Komenda/Edina/Eguafo/ Abirem (Dr. P. K. Nduom) raised about the Public Services Commission, some of the functions have been taken away by these Commissions, and again we need to fine- tune because some of them are of constitutional nature. I think that it is not also just an issue of creating a body, but the will to listen to that body and to take the view of that body seriously.
The example I want to give is the National Labour Commission. Most of the problems it is facing arise out of the fact that sometimes Government finds it difficult -- and I am not just talking about only the New Patriotic Party (NPP); I am talking about all governments -- to listen to impartial decisions made by the Commission. And because of this we have a lurking problem of always disagreements and strikes; some we call illegal, others we call legal.
So long as we create a Fair Wages Commission and they are supposed to review, study and bring about harmony in salary structures, we need also to allow them the independence to say to Government or to any other Public Service employer that the cannot have their way.
The political will will decide, not what is put in the memorandum as the panacea for the solution of all the problems. We are raising the hopes of workers too high and I think that we need to lower that expectation and see that this equity that
we want to have with this Commission really is realised.
But again, to emphasise that, from what
I have seen in the Report, it is now also to help in having negotiations. So you ask the question: What about the Tripartite Committee? What role would it have in this matter? So once again, I think we should look at the differences that we can iron out now so that there is no conflict after the law is passed.
Deputy Minister for Manpower, Youth and Employment (Dr. C. Y. Brempong-Yeboah): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity to make a contribution to this debate.
Mr. Speaker, until I became Deputy Minister for Manpower, Youth and Employment little did I know about the kinds of negotiations that go on between Government as employer and the unions.
Mr. Speaker, sometimes these negotia-
tions can be very turbulent; and it goes on sometimes for days, weeks and sometimes even months, resulting most of the time in increased numbers of threats from a lot of the unions.
Mr. Speaker, the Minis t ry or Govern-ment for that matter has a lot of organisations that it has to deal with virtually on annual basis when it comes to these negotiations. Within each of these unions too, we have several bran- ches, each handling its own bargaining certificate, and so on.
So it becomes very difficult for a negotiating committee at the Ministry, for example, to conclude one negotiation and move on to the other one, because sometimes a simple item like night allowance which has been agreed with one branch of the Teachers and Educational Workers Union (TEWU) with their certificate may not necessarily be accepted by another branch of TEWU.
In fact, this creates a lot of problems for the negotiating organ at the Ministry, most of the time. So it is against this background and others that I believe that the Government's decision to come out with this Fair Wages Commission has been very timely and therefore needs to be supported.
Mr. Speaker, in 1995, as has been said, the Government of the day through the Public Services Commission, engaged the Price Waterhouse and Associates which came out with what has become known as the Ghana Universal Salary Structure (GUSS). But as we know now, the implementation of those recommendations has been fraught with various difficulties, including the lack of legal backing to some of the organs such as the CMB, and so on.
This eventually resulted also in the fact that various institutions were given a mandate to negotiate on their own and consequently in the same government sector we had situations where secretaries, for example, of the same grade working in one Ministry, like a Stenographer Secretary in the Ministry of Labour may earn about 60 per cent of what a Stenographer Secretary with the same qualifications will be earning in another government establishment.

So Mr. Speaker, it is certainly very important that we agree as a government or as a nation to put in place this body which we believe will be staffed with experts on labour issues, experts on job analysis, experts generally on wage management, and so on, to assist in the implementation of government wage policy. So I wish to take the opportunity to urge my hon. Colleagues to agree for us to come out with this Fair Wages and Salaries Commission to assist the work

that we as a nation are putting before us.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu (NDC -- Central Tongu) 11:30 a.m.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute briefly to this motion. It is quite refreshing that historical reflection has been made on the Price Waterhouse which as at now has been the point of reference for whatever wage reviews are in the public sector. It has been noted that what really paralyzed the Price Waterhouse and its recommen-dations, especially with the Ghana Universal Salaries Structure (GUSS), was the fact that Government at that time did not have the needed resource allocations to that. What I am making reference to is that, if you look at the memorandum, the last paragraph on the first page indicated that in 1998 Cabinet decided on the Public Sector Pay Policy to ensure comprehen-siveness for public sector organizations. This has been stalled due to lack of finance. This is the situation when it comes to labour and its matters; adequate resources should be made available.
The experience we are having with the National Labour Commission, for example, is a situation whereby adequate resources that should go to support the secretariat to discharge its functions are not usually available. It is in this vein that I want to caution that no matter the set-up we would have with this Fair Wages and Salaries Commission, without the necessary resources put at their disposal, we may be running into the same situations that we have with other institutions of this type in the public sector.
Mr. Speaker, if you look at the grievances -- redress situation, you would realize that this is almost going to be the same functions that the National Labour Commission performs and it may be necessary for us in aligning the processes to make sure that we do not set up parallel organizations to deal with the same problems in the labour front; otherwise we
Mr. Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Hon. Member for Central Tongu, do you have a point of
order?
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 11:30 a.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my hon. Colleague is misleading the House when he talks about fair wages, that it is not an increase in remuneration. I think the import of saying “fair wages” is to bring up salaries to an appreciable level. So for him to be alluding to the fact that it is not to be an improvement in the salaries of workers, especially in the public sector where salaries have usually been very low -- The fair wages is to push it up to the level that one would have expected in the private sector and other parallel set-ups.
Mr. Baidoe-Ansah 11:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. Member got it all wrong. Fair wages is fair wages. Fair wages is not increase in wages; it is to take care of the distortions in the wage structure of the public sector. Equity -- equity is really the word. So what it means is that if you have a situation where somebody is earning a salary which is not fair, then you ensure that the person earns a fair wage.
When you talk about increment in wages, you are talking about ensuring that there is increase in productivity. That is the only way that you can increase salaries. We have a situation at the moment where maybe in a sector, you employ someone as a cleaner then the following day the person surfaces with a degree and calls on you that “Now that I have a degree, I want you to pay me as a degree holder”. Is it an issue of looking at what the person does that you pay, or the question of what the person has surfaced with? These are some of the distortions that we hope this Commission will be looking at.
It is also unfortunate that politicians, all of us, sometimes tend to politicize public sector wages. We should rise above that. For us, it is important as leaders to ensure that we encourage people to produce more. It is only when we produce more that we
would really earn more income.
We also have to look at public sector wastage. If you have a situation where you are even making more in terms of producing more and you have a system where people in the public sector can waste a lot of money through phone calls -- There have been quite a lot of occasions where you walk into offices and you realize that the conversations that take place on phones have no relationship to the kind of jobs that people do.
All these must be looked at from the perspective of destroying the income that we make. What are the attitudes of people towards the property that they live in? If you live in a government bungalow and we always have to bring money from the public sector to come and repair things that you destroy, it affects public sector money; monies that otherwise could go into increasing salaries will end up in the drain.
So all these things must be looked at by the Fair Wages Commission. Yes, it is very good; we are going to ensure that the distortions are taken care of but we should really increase productivity and we should ensure that we do not really create a lot of wastages in the system.
With these few words I am done.

Deputy Attorney-General and
Minister for Justice (Mr. Kwame Osei- Prempeh) 11:40 a.m.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity to support this very important motion.
The issue at stake is very, very important and very dear to my heart. Your Committee has captured my heart in the background they have given and the purpose.
About three weeks ago I witnessed
an incident at the Ridge Hospital and my heart bled. I was there, when I was sick, to see a doctor when busloads of other workers from the Ghana Health Service came there and drove people who were receiving medical attention at the out- patients department away; they drove nurses and all other workers away. It was pathetic seeing people carrying very sick people away because workers were being forced to go on strike or workers had decided to go on strike.
Mr. Speaker, I believe that it is in the light of this that such a law is very, very important so that readily everybody knows what he is doing. My worry is that we should all in this country be law- abiding and decide to obey the laws which are passed by the Parliament of this country. We do not have to pass a law which would be observed more in breach than in compliance.
Mr. J. Y. Chireh 11:40 a.m.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister should withdraw the words, “Parliament wastes time”, we spend time, we do not waste it.
Mr. Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Deputy Attorney- General, you take it on board.
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 11:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
Mr. C. S. Hodogbey 11:40 a.m.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, it is rather unfortunate that the Deputy Attorney-General who is supposed to enforce laws is trying to lay a foundation now that the laws that we are going to pass may be weak; that people would flout them and he has no power to see to it that the law is enforced. It is rather unfortunate.
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 11:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am surprised; I never said so. I do not know whether my hon. Friend was listening to me. For his sake, what I said was that when a law is observed more in breach than in compliance, it becomes worrying. For example, some sections of our labour force have decided to do so with the Labour Act; when they are aggrieved they do not want to obey the provisions of the law.
Mr. J. K. Gidisu 11:40 a.m.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, the hon. Deputy Attorney- General who is the legal brain behind laws and their enforcement in this country is misleading this House. The Labour Commission Act was passed under the New Patriotic Party (NPP) Government and all those things he is talking about, which undermine the implementation and effective functioning of the Labour Commission, are as a result of the inconsistency of the NPP Government towards those situations he himself is talking about. Austin Gamey was in the last Parliament which had nothing to do with the passage of that Bill.
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 11:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am sorry to say that I do not know whether some of my hon. Friends should be provided with hearing aids.
I said that our Labour Act is good and a seasoned labour practitioner like our former colleague, Austin Gamey, has said that it is one of the best laws, and yet people have decided to trample on the law. That is what I said. I never said that Austin Gamey passed the law or - I never said anything negative against him.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:40 a.m.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, a serious point of order. My hon. Colleague, the Deputy Attorney-General, has stated that he does not know whether some of his hon. Colleagues should be provided with hearing aids. He did not say ‘hearing aid'; he said ‘hearing aids'; and that is more serious. Mr. Speaker, that is very, very serious. He must tell us what he means by ‘aids', whether he intends to provide aids to the ears or whatever. Mr. Speaker, this is very serious.
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 11:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I thank the English master for that -- ‘hearing aid', I meant. But I want to say
Mr. Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Please, conclude.
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 11:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, if we are both teachers and you decide to stay in Accra and I decide to go to Kwamang, our wages or salaries may be different depending on where we are working. They should take all these things into consideration.
Again, there is a grievance procedure set. I believe that this must be properly outlined. The National Labour Commis- sion is going to be the appellate body. Contrary to what some of my hon. Friends said, the National Labour Commission is never going to be in conflict with this Commission. It is going to be the appellate body but the important thing is that all workers, all practitioners must be educated to follow the grievance procedure set out in the law, otherwise it becomes useless setting out the grievance procedure.
I believe that there should be enough education so that everybody knows his rights. More importantly, the National Labour Commission and any other enforcing organisation must enforce the laws. They should not hesitate to go to court when need be, as they did in the
Mr. Abdul-Rashid Pelpuo 11:40 a.m.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, the hon. Deputy Attorney-General is misleading this House.
First of all, he misunderstood the fact that hon. Members on this side of the House are coming on a point of order to draw his attention to the fact that compliance, as he is emphasising, should not be the issue but rather enforcement since he is at the hub of enforcement. If he complains about the fact that people are not obeying the law, we find it difficult. It is not because we have not heard him saying that there is a law and people are not obeying.
We want him to understand that it is because they are not enforcing the laws in Ghana and especially the Labour laws. They are at their doorsteps and they do not comply with the rules to enforce them.
Mr. Speaker, we want to draw his attention to this so that we do not give the impression that people who do not obey the law are to be blamed. People do not obey the law, because he is not enforcing it; and enforcement is the catchword and not the compliance.
Mr. Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Deputy Attorney- General, please conclude.
Mr. Osei-Prempeh 11:40 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, to conclude I just want to say that both compliance and enforcement are very important. If those who are to enforce do not enforce, those who are to comply do not comply, it leads to chaos. That is why I am saying that those who are to enforce the law must do everything to enforce the law. If need be for them to go to court, they should go; but more importantly, everybody must try to conform to the laws

of this country.

Mr. Speaker, on that note I thank you very much and I support the motion.
Mr. Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Minister for Manpower, Youth and Employment, you may wish to wind up.

Alhaj i Abu-Bakar Saddique Boniface: Mr. Speaker, I wish to thank hon. Colleagues for all the observations, criticisms and the attention that they have drawn to some of the issues. I believe, at the end of the day, the establishment of this Fair Wages and Salaries Commission would do away with the past problems that we were faced with, especially the series of systems and metamorphosis that we have undergone.

This Commission would help create a peaceful industrial environment. Like an hon. Colleague said, once we have this establishment it would help enhance the salaries of Public Service workers and of course, it would help ensure high productivity. Once there is high productivity, the worker would definitely get what is due him/her and this would be done in a fair, transparent and a systematic manner. Of course, when we anticipate high productivity, we believe it would lead to economic growth.

In assuring the House -- an hon. Member said there is likely to be a struggle for turf, that is with the Labour Com-mission. I beg to inform the House that this particular Commission would have nothing to do with that. If there is any problem at all, it would have to go to the grievances committee and if one is not satisfied after the problem has gone to the board, he has the right -- Because the Labour Commission itself is seen as a high court.

You need to present your problem to

the National Labour Commission and if you are not satisfied then you can go to the Appeals Court. So I want to assure hon. Members that this particular Commission would not bring any contradiction as far as its functions and those of the Labour Commission are concerned. I want to assure my hon. Colleagues that there would not be any problem of that sort.

I want also to accept the correction that was made by my hon. Colleague Minister, the Minister for Public Sector Reforms, where he drew my attention to a particular point on page 3 of the Report. He mentioned the ceding of the total functions of the Public Services Commission. I agree with him totally that it is “some” and not “all” and so we agree to the insertion of “some of its functions would be ceded . . .”

Secondly, the Commission will be an advisory body; it will advise Government on some of the issues - I agree totally - and not only the advisor to Government as far as wages and salaries are concerned.

On that note, I wish to thank hon. Colleagues who have addressed this with all circumspection and objectivity.

Question put and motion agreed to.

The Fa i r Wages and Sa la r ies Commission Bill was accordingly read a Second time.
Mr. Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Hon. Minister for Manpower, Youth and Employment, you wanted to make a correction. You may now do so.
Alhaji Boniface 11:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the correction I wanted to make was to do with the Common Fund Formula and that is at page 7 of the Report, under ‘Recommen- dations', item 10.3 which originally read: “10 per cent of the 15 per cent”. I was drawing the attention of the Committee
to do it this way: “67 per cent of the 15 per cent or two-thirds of the 15 per cent”. Alternatively, it could be said, “10 per cent out of the 15 per cent” -- hiving off 10 per cent. So if we could take note.
Then on the fifth point, increase MP's share of the Common Fund from the five per cent to six per cent. That is, creaming off 40 per cent of the share of the Regional Coordinating Councils -- the 2.5 per cent to 1.5 per cent. So I believe if we use that term, mathematically it would sound better; otherwise it would be giving a different interpretation altogether.
Mr. Speaker 11:50 a.m.
We now move to item
29.
MOTIONS 11:50 a.m.

Chairman of the Committee (Mr. Kwadwo Agyei-Addo) 11:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 80 (1) which require that no motion shall be debated until at least forty-eight hours have elapsed between the date on which notice of the motion is given and the date on which the motion is moved, the motion for the adoption of the Report of the Finance Committee on the Loan Agreement between the Government of Ghana and the Social Security and National Insurance Trust (SSNIT) for an amount of US$20 million for the Ghana Armed Forces Housing Project may be moved today.
Minister for Defence (Dr. Kwame Addo-Kufuor) 11:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to second the motion and also use the opportunity to commend highly your Committee on Finance for the excellent work they have done -- [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker 11:50 a.m.
This is a procedural
motion.
Question put and motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
Loan Agreement between GOG and SSNIT for the Ghana Armed Forces
Housing Project
Mr. Agyei-Addo 11:50 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to
move, that this honourable House adopts the Report of the Finance Committee on the Loan Agreement between the Government of Ghana and the Social Security and National Insurance Trust (SSNIT) for an amount of US $20 million for the Ghana Armed Forces Housing Project.
I wish to also present the Report of your Committee.
1.0 Introduction
The Credit Agreement between the Government of Ghana and the Social Security and National Insurance Trust (SSNIT) for an amount of US$20 million for the Ghana Armed Forces Housing Project was laid in the House on Friday, March 16, 2007 and referred to the Finance Committee for consideration and report in accordance with the Constitution and Standing Orders of the House.
To consider the agreement, the Committee met with the Minister for Defence, hon. Dr. Kwame Addo Kufuor, Deputy Minister for Defence, hon. William Ofori Boafo, Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning, hon. Prof. George Gyan-Baffour, Officials from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning and Ministry of Defence and reports as follows:
Minister for Defence (Dr. K. Addo- Kufuor) noon
Mr. Speaker, I rise to second the motion and also to commend highly your Committee for the excellent work done on this project.
Mr. Speaker, the most acute problem facing the Ghana Armed Forces now is accommodation. Many of the dwellings in the garrisons across the country are rather old and date back to the colonial era or the early part of our independence.

Mr. Speaker, the severe accommo- dation situation has forced many of the soldiers to live among civilian populations in towns and this arrangement undermines military discipline and depresses esprit de corps. It also makes it rather difficult for us to mobilize troops in times of emergency when they are needed.

Mr. Speaker, in recent times there has been increase in the level of enlistment into the Ghana Armed Forces because of the stability in the subregion and also the need to provide more troops for peacekeeping operations in many countries in the subregion and around the world. Because of these enlistment has gone up and there is need for us to increase the stock of dwelling units in all the garrisons.

So far as the contract is concerned,
Dr. Benjamin Kunbuor (NDC -- Lawra/Nandom) noon
Mr. Speaker, I have perhaps the responsibility to support this motion as former Ranking Member for the Committee on Defence and Interior who had a firsthand account when we did a tour of a number of the military installations in this country. In our interaction with the officers and men it became quite clear that housing has become one of the most difficult issues for the military.
We had the opportunity at that time to discuss with the hon. Minister for Defence in detail about alternative ways of finding funding for a project of this nature which is worthwhile and we had actually gone through the agreement into a bit more detail when I moved into the Finance Committee. And so for me it is a matter that I have had earlier firsthand commitment to, until it got to this point.
We are equally interested in ensuring that between the approval of the loan, the acquisition of the loan and the disbursement the implementation has to move at a very fast rate. If we take the peculiar situation of Kamina Barracks, we can find on top of the bungalows of relatively senior officers of the Armed Forces, a number of stones to prevent the wind and storm from taking the roofs away. I think this is a highly unacceptable situation for those who have taken the noble profession to die in defence of this country.
We have always paid lip-service to the agenda that security is the first law of development and I guess that perhaps we must begin to put practical things on the ground to ensure that this security situation is dealt with.
One appreciates that there are many more issues that confront the Minister for Defence and particularly the military personnel, but I think the housing one, that is where people will lay their heads before they can perhaps have enough ammunition to shoot, is very, very central.
With these few comments, Mr. Speaker, I support the motion.
Alhaji M. A. Yakubu (NPP - Yendi) noon
Mr. Speaker, I am also glad to support this motion. As any nation strives to achieve its economic stability it should be done in conjunction with security or stability as well because the two are essential.
One of those troublesome areas that makes it difficult for our security agencies to function effectively is accommodation and I think the Government is looking at the twin problem of economic stability and security stability, and it is a good initiative that the Minister for Defence and the Minister for Finance and Economic Planning have put their heads together to secure a loan like this.
I know that a lot of efforts and initiatives of this nature have taken place in the past, and it is a very good sign that since the national Budget cannot extend to fund these projects which are essential for the happiness and conducive atmosphere for our security forces to work, initiatives like these are welcome. I congratulate the Ministers of Defence and Finance and Economic Planning who have brought this about. It is so logical that it is not subject to any dispute. I support it wholeheartedly and I have no doubt that other hon. Members will support it.
Mr. S. K. B. Manu (NPP - Ahafo Ano South) noon
Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the motion and in doing so I want to recognize the fact that if one does not have a good place to lay his head he cannot think rightly and he cannot act rightly and decisively when the occasion demands. Mr. Speaker, it is therefore a decision in the right direction that this loan has been taken to ensure that our military personnel have good accommodation for themselves and their families.
Mr. Speaker, I am glad that the hon. Minister for Defence and the Minister for Finance and Economic Planning have come together to secure this loan for our military personnel; kudos to them. But one other area that we have to look at is a call on the Minister for the Interior and the Minister for Finance and Economic Planning to come together and take a similar loan to provide accommodation for our police personnel.
Alhaji Sumani Abukari noon
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, my hon. Friend and brother, hon. Manu is out of order. He should let us concentrate on the military barracks.
Mr. Manu noon
Mr. Speaker, if the hon. Member listened well to the Second Deputy Speaker, he talked about security, linking that with accommodation. And security in the country is not only in the hands of the military; it is in the hands of the police as well. A lot has been said for the military and I want to speak for the
police. I think I have every right to do so under the laws of this country.
With this, Mr. Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak for the police.
Mr. Abdul 12:10 p.m.
None

Wa Central): Mr. Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the motion on the floor. Mr. Speaker, if we follow what is written on the internet about the military - I have come across a few people who write anonymously about their conditions of service and they complain so much about the problems they face in the military, et cetera. Mr. Speaker, this loan is a very crucial loan though belated and it would go a long way to secure the kind of peace we want to see in the military.

Mr. Speaker, the military appears to me like fire. Fire is a very useful thing for man but that depends on how one uses it. If it is used correctly, it does all the things one wants done; but if it is used wrongly, it burns. Over the years, in our lives as a state and as a nation, the military at one point or the other had been used in such a way that instead of securing the borders of this nation, instead of ensuring that we enjoyed the peace and instead of ensuring that it was an instrument that could be used also for our foreign policy pursuits, it became an internal problem to us.

Mr. Speaker, most of the problems they cite, it is because the military had not been taken care of; and that is the reason why I think that this loan should only be the first step to ensuring that the military is as comfortable as possible so that they would secure the peace we want for us, both externally and internally.

Mr. Speaker, there is something that is very good about this loan agreement that I would like to point out, and it is that it is
Mr. J. H. Mensah (NPP -- Sunyani East) 12:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am only going to be brief in the discussion because perhaps I have more experience of the difficult and tricky issues of national security and insecurity than most hon. Members.
Mr. Speaker, I have lived through
many coups d'etat. A couple of weeks ago I had the opportunity to address a university on some of our problems, for the future. One of the things that I said was this -- Although it is a bit delicate I want to repeat it here.
Over the years, the machinery that has been built up by this nation under constitutional law and other laws to defend the fundamental institutions of the State, including the Constitution, have not worked well; that whenever somebody has assaulted the fundamental institution of the State, he has not been met and crushed. The only answer to an armed assault on the fundamental institution of the State is armed resistance; you cannot defeat a coup maker in any other way.
The h is tory of th is count ry, unfortunately, is that time and again when people had assaulted the constituted order, the defensive mechanisms had failed us. Mr. Speaker, apart from Colonel Zalerigu at Flagstaff House in 1966 and Colonel Odartey Wellington at Broadcasting House in 1979, our defence establishment has not been able to safeguard the Constitution when it had been assaulted.
Last Saturday, I was talking to some very senior military officers at the Veterans Association and one very senior retired officer told me that the smaller things affecting the day-to-day life of the soldiers are the most important because the esprit de corps of the armed forces depends on the appropriate provision of the small things that affect their day-to-day living and that a soldier will die for you if you provide him with his basic needs but he will not die for you if you neglect those basic needs.

Mr. Speaker, again, in other places, for instance, the Sunyani Barracks, at one stage we had to go and put water supplies for them -- dig boreholes for them. Even the Roman Catholic Church dug boreholes for them because the provision by the State was affecting adversely the day-to-day living of the soldiers.
Alhaji Sumani Abukari (NDC -- Tamale North) 12:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I suspect that my hon. Uncle, J. H. Mensah, saw my small notes somewhere before he made his contribution. [Laughter.] He has actually
almost taken the wind out of my sail.
But Mr. Speaker, I would re-emphasise that this is a very important loan; I would re-emphasise that the army has to be very well taken care of so that we can continue to have the peace that we have. I would re-emphasise that the army has to be made so comfortable that when they go out of the country they would continue to carry the flag of Ghana high and make us proud, as they are doing now.
Our army is hailed all over the world because of their professional expertise -- [Interruption] -- It is not a question of who told me; I was an Ambassador in Saudi Arabia and all the Gulf areas and during the Gulf crisis I went round several times to visit our troops on the front lines, and I had very high commendation from the foreigners, their partners for the performance of our troops. So I know that as a fact. But I am saying that we need to keep that morale high by keeping them comfortable, at least at night, so that when they go home, they sleep comfortably -- [Interruption.]
Mr. E. K. D. Adjaho 12:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. Mr. Speaker, it is with regard to relevance. Mr. Speaker, I do not know whether the hon. Ranking Member is talking about his curriculum vitae (CV) or he is talking about the loan which is before us.
Mr. Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Hon. Member for Tamale North, please continue.
Alhaji Abukari 12:10 p.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, I would not be distracted.
Mr. Speaker, our troops would have
to be made very comfortable and we can contribute to their comfort by giving them comfortable accommodation. In fact, right now, their houses are nothing to write home about. You go there and you will see them putting stones and blocks
on their roofing sheets so that in times of storm their roofs would not be ripped off. And these are people who have sacrificed over and over again.
Now they even have to help the police to guard us in the night when we go to sleep so that armed robbers do not invade our houses. They have done so much that we have to do very little for them by at least giving them modern accommo- dation, comfortable enough for them to get up and prepare for their duties as excellently as they have done.
Mr. Speaker, the only thing I realized when I was going through this loan agreement last night again was that they did not indicate how many units the $20 million will build; it is not indicated. I hope that the hon. Minister in his summing up would indicate how many units this $20 million would build so that we would all be comfortable with it.
Mr. Speaker, with this, I can com- fortably support the motion.
Mr. Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Chairman of the Commit-tee, you may wind up.
Mr. Kwadwo Agyei-Addo 12:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, going by the submissions so far made by all hon. Members, I believe we are all clear that this is a request that each one of us wants to pass through.
Mr. Speaker, our soldiers, wherever they have been, have really distinguished themselves and I believe this is the time that we also need to support them by giving them suitable accommodation. Mr. Speaker, I believe we all believe that once this request is passed and the housing units are provided for them they would work better than they are doing as of now.
Mr. Speaker, with these few words, I would like to thank each and every Member of the House who has contributed
rose
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Hon. Member, do you have anything that you would want to draw my attention to?
Mr. H. Iddrisu 12:20 p.m.
Yes, I was trying to draw your attention to a procedural issue and I needed your guidance; unfortunately, I could not catch your eye before you put the Question.
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Go ahead.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, my obser-vation is that this important loan agreement that we have just considered, there was a memorandum to it which memorandum was made available only to the members of the Finance Committee of this House.
Mr. Speaker, the entire Parliament
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Hon. Member, you may wish to take it up with Leadership at this stage.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 12:20 p.m.
All right.
rose
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Deputy Minority Leader, you take this up with the Leadership.
Mr. Adjaho 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I agree that Leadership will take this matter up but I would want to add that we should not encourage this type of procedural mistake again on the floor of this House.
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Item 31, Resolution, Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning.
RESOLUTION 12:20 p.m.

Prof. G. Y. Gyan-Baffour 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that
WHEREAS By the provisions of article 181 of the Constitution and section 7 of the Loans Act, 1970 (Act 335), the terms and conditions of any loan raised by the Government of Ghana on behalf of itself or any public institution or authority shall not come into operation unless the said terms and conditions have been laid before Parliament and approved by Parliament by a Resolution supported by the votes of a majority of all Members of Parliament;
PURSUANT to the provisions of the said article 181 of the Constitution and section 7 of the Loans Act, 1970 (Act 335) and at the request of the Government of Ghana acting through the Minister responsible for Finance, there has been laid before Parliament the terms and conditions of the Loan Agreement between the Govern-ment of Ghana and the Social Security and National Insurance Trust (SSNIT) for an amount of US$20 million for the Ghana Armed Forces Housing Project.
THIS HONOURABLE HOUSE 12:20 p.m.

HEREBY RESOLVES AS 12:20 p.m.

Alhaji Abukari 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to second the motion.
Question put and motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Hon. Members, we will move on to item 8.
BILLS -- SECOND READING 12:20 p.m.

Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Deputy Leaders, are you not in possession of the Report? I have one.
Prof. Gyan-Baffour 12:20 p.m.
I am told that it has not been distributed.
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Deputy Majority Leader, are you not in possession of the Report?
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 12:20 p.m.
No, sir.
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Do you have the Report?
Prof. Gyan-Baffour 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I have just been told that they are now running the Report, so if we can take it later.
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Deputy Leader of the Minority, do you not have copies?
Mr. Adjaho 12:20 p.m.
We do not have copies of the Report.
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Anyway, then we will stand it down; we will come back to it later.
Item 21, Minister for the Interior.
Suspension of Standing Order 128 (1)
Deputy Minister for the Interior (Mr. Kwaku Agyemang-Manu): Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 128 (1) which require that when a Bill has been read a Second time it shall pass through a Consideration Stage which shall not be taken until at least forty-eight hours have elapsed, the Consideration Stage of the National Commission on Small Arms Bill may be taken today.
Alhaji S. Abukari 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg
to second the motion.
Question put and motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
Mr. Speaker 12:20 p.m.
We now move to item
22.
BILLS - CONSIDERATION STAGE 12:20 p.m.

Chairman of the Committee (Mr. J. K. Hackman) 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 1, subclause (1), line 2, at end, add “referred to in this Act as the Com-mission”.
Mr. Yieleh Chireh 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,
I think it is not necessary to carry this amendment because we have defined the Commission at the end of the Bill; one of them must be taken. If we agree to this, then it means that we should not define Commission in the ‘Interpretation' section. So it is absolutely unnecessary and we should reject it.
Alhaji S. Abukari 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. Member for Wa West is right. Actually, we said we should do this because in the body of the Bill we do not refer to the Long Title again, we just refer to it as ‘Commission'. So we thought that we should explain what Commission means and we also decided that we should delete it from the Interpretation clause. So I agree with him that we should opt to give away one of them and I agree that we should delete it from the Interpretation section after this provision. So we can retain the amendment but when we come to the Interpretations we delete it.
Mr. Chireh 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am still opposed to that because the tradition is for us to always go and define this at the other end. It is only in amendments that we do this, so I think we should reject the amendment and retain it at the Interpretation section.
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think both are agreeable but the normal style is to define it in the opening clause -- it is a better option -- and then delete the one in the Interpretation clause. So I will propose that we go by the Chairman's amendment and then delete the definition in the Interpretation. It is more normal in these matters.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 1 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 2 - Object and functions of the Commission.
Mr. Hackman 12:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 2, subclause (1), line 2, at end, add “and other related materials”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Roman (iii) - Chairman, there is a further amendment.
Mr. Hackman 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 2, subclause (2), paragraph (c ), line 2, after “community” insert “of West African States (ECOWAS)”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Hackman 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 2, subclause (2), paragraph (d), line 1, after “strategies” insert “as contained in the ECOWAS Convention and any other relevant international conventions to which Ghana is a party or has acceded to”.
Dr. Kunbuor 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I guess this
amendment has not clarified the particular section any better because if you say “as contained in the ECOWAS Convention”, it ought to be noted that there are so many ECOWAS conventions. So unless when you put it to the main paragraph - [Interruption] - No! No! No! “relevant” comes on in relation to other conventions but the particular ECOWAS convention must be specified so that the idea of other relevance will link up to it.
So I guess that he intended to indicate the ECOWAS Treaty on Small Arms and Light Weapons because there are other conventions of the ECOWAS. All I am saying is that they should take a look at the wording there. All I am drawing attention to is that as it stands now, the question is, which of the ECOWAS conventions are we talking about? We all know it has to do with small arms and light weapons. But it is not captured by this amendment.
Mr. Hackman 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, we are specifically referring to the ECOWAS Convention on Small Arms and Light weapons, and Ammunition and other related matters.
Mr. Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Convention on . . .
Mr. Hackman 12:30 p.m.
Convention on Small Arms and Light Weapons.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 2 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 3 - Ministerial responsibility and directives of the Minister.
Mr. Chireh 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker it is simply
the same problem because we have “Minister” again defined at the Interpre- tation Section whilst we are again assig- ning the meaning of “Minister” to it. So
one of them should be retained otherwise it is redundant.
Mr. Speaker 12:30 p.m.
So, what are you sugges- ting, hon. Member.
Mr. Chireh 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I suggest that in this case since it is a small Bill, we do not define the “Minister”.
Mr. Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee, what do you say to that?
Mr. Hackman 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it is necessary that we define the Minister. It is normal in our conventions.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 3 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 4 -- Governing body of the Commission.
Mr. Hackman 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 4, subclause (1), paragraph (b), delete and substitute: “ two representatives of the Ghana Armed Forces not below the rank of colonel, one of whom shall be from the Defence Intelligence”.
Dr. Kunbuor 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I can understand the import of the amendment but if you see the ranks of the Military in terms of the Air Force, Navy and Army, there are cognate ranks to a colonel. So I am not sure whether you want to limit it specifically to ‘colonel' or other ranks of that equivalence in the other segments of the Armed Forces; so that you do not just tie the hands of the appointing authority to, say, the Army, as it were. Should you have a military intelligence man who comes from the Navy, he will never have the rank of a colonel.
Mr. Hackman 12:30 p.m.
Agreed, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker 12:30 p.m.
So what are you adding to it?
Mr. Hackman 12:30 p.m.
“or its equivalent”.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I do not really have anything against the amendment except to raise the issue that we raised the other day. It evens the number if we say that we should have two representatives there. It makes the number even and so we should look at it again. Perhaps, the Chairman will have a second look at the issue that he is raising.
Mr. Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Hon. Chairman of the Committee, do you have anything to say? Otherwise I will put the Question.
Mr. Hackman 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, put the Question.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Hackman 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 4, subclause (1), paragraph (h), line 1, after “one” insert “of whom shall be”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Hackman 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 4, subclause (1), paragraph (j), line 2, delete “Director” and substitute “Commissioner”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Do you have further amendments to clause 4? Please, go ahead.
Mr. Chireh 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, if you look at the issue of numbers, because we increased the number from one to two with the military officers, we now have fourteen members of the Commission. We also have the other one where a woman is to be appointed. So in order to get an
odd number, I would propose that the last - that is (j) -- should be two other persons, one of whom is a woman so that we have 15.
Mr. Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee, what do you say to that?
Mr. Hackman 12:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, we thought about the cost of adding two additional members. We also deemed that the Chairman might have a casting vote.
Dr. Kunbuor 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am not sure there is any provision, to the best of my knowledge, in any of the proposed amendments, for the Chairman to have a casting vote; and once there is no provision for it we might as well just deal with it here, except you want to come with another amendment to say the Chairman will have a casting vote. But I do not think the casting vote is a practice most organizations want to encourage.
Attorney-General and Minister for Justice (Mr. Joe Ghartey): Mr. Speaker, I agree with my Colleague opposite. There is no provision for the Chairman to have a casting vote. In addition to that, when you look at 4 (1) (f), it says one representative for civil society coalition.
Mr. Speaker, civil society coalition; what body is that? It undermines the provision of the Constitution that guarantees freedom of association. So it should be civil society. “Civil Society Coalition” seems to mean a particular group and what group is that? It should be civil society and I agree with him that it is not proper drafting to have an even number unless you say that the Chairman must have a casting vote; and there is nothing there to say that the Chairman must have a casting vote.

So the representatives, maybe from the Ghana Army or maybe from the Military Service should be increased to three. Or

maybe we can also go to 4(1)(i), two other persons nominated by the President, one of whom shall be a woman. That will also give us an odd number.

So “Civil Society Coalition” should be

“civil society” and we should make the number odd by changing (i) to “two other persons”, one of whom shall be a woman, nominated by the President.
Dr. Kunbuor 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think this
was a main omission. Actually, there is a National Action Plan. If it has not been laid before this House, then I guess perhaps it is still in the formative stages. But in that National Action Plan, they have talked of this coalition which involves a number of identifiable civil society organizations that have come under a compact. And they are actually in the advocacy component of the small arms and light weapons, like GHANSA, FORSA and those other organizations.
If that is the intent, then they should clarify that here. But I think there is still a difficulty with that coalition because if you put it into a legislation, then you are excluding future civil society organizations that are not expressly mentioned. So I would agree with the hon. Attorney-General and Minister for Justice that we should leave it as “civil society” whether it is a coalition or is an individual organization, to take on board.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Speaker 12:40 p.m.
And then clause 4 (1) (i) instead of “one other person”, we have “two other persons”.
Mrs. Alice Teni Boon 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I do support the amendment but I was thinking that looking at the membership, it is not likely that in these positions that
they will be appointing members onto the board, we will have women. And I do appreciate the concerns of the Bill which is proposing to have women appointed by the President.
But I was thinking that since we might not have many women on the Board, we should have the appointment by the President being two women instead of “one of whom shall be a woman”. This is because, looking at the various positions being held here, except one or two, there are always men throughout.
I think that we should be looking at two being appointed by the President. So I want to further amend his proposed amendment to “two being appointed by the President who shall be women”.
Mr. Kwaku Agyemang-Manu 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, if you look at the representation, I am surprised as to why the hon. Member is thinking that it is not likely we may have a lot of women. Mr. Speaker, there are women in the Ghana Armed Forces at very high positions. Ministry of Foreign Affairs does not comprise (Directors or positions above Director) only males. Mr. Speaker, the Ministry of the Interior, the Attorney-General's Office, civil society -- Mr. Speaker, there are women in the Police Service to the extent that a Deputy Inspector-General of Police (IGP) is a woman.
So I believe, Mr. Speaker, the last (l) as we intend to amend: “two other persons, one of whom shall be a woman” is adequate and that should give us a very good or sizeable representation of women on this Commission.
Mr. Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Hon. Member for Lambussie, are you now withdrawing your amendment?
Mrs. Boon 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I wish they will really consider such a board if it is constituted, because I think that most of
Mr. Ghartey 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I did not say that.
Mr. Speaker 12:40 p.m.
I have not called you yet.
Mrs. Boon 12:40 p.m.
He has not called you.
Mr. Ghartey 12:40 p.m.
Sorry.
Mrs. Boon 12:40 p.m.
But Mr. Speaker, I tend to believe that he will be electing a woman to be appointed. And the hon. Deputy Minister for the Interior also said he thinks that most women will be chosen. So I want to agree with the proposal that there should be one woman in the appointment being done by the President, with the assurance that there will be at least some women, in addition to the only one being appointed.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 4 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 5 -- Tenure of office of members of the Commission.
Mr. Hackman 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 5, Head Notes, before “Commission” insert “Board of the”.
Mr. Chireh 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to support the amendment but I want him to make it simpler by saying that: “Tenure of Office of Members of the Board” because if you look at clause 5, there is a link between the Board and the Commission already. So we should just say, “The
tenure of office of the Members of the Board”, instead of inserting any other thing. It is neater that way and I think he should agree because it has the same effect.
Mr. Hackman 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I agree to his submission.
Mr. Speaker 12:40 p.m.
So before “Commission”, insert “Members of the Board”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Haruna Iddrisu 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, there are very important issues that I thought we should look at. If you look at clause 5(1), “A member of the Board . . .” we have to add “other than the Executive Secretary shall hold office for a period not exceeding two years”, We cannot treat the Executive Secretary like all other Members of the Board. And I thought it was an amendment I wanted to propose.
Then clause 5(2), l ine 4, after “authority” insert “where applicable”. I thought it would make the rendition much more elegant at that level.
Clause 5 (1) should read: “a Member of the Board other than the Executive Secretary shall hold office for a period not exceeding two years and is eligible for reappointment.”
Even if you permitted me, after the word “appointment” we could delete the rest of the words.
Mr. Hackman 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I agree to his amendment.
Mr. Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Which one do you agree to?
Mr. Hackman 12:40 p.m.
Both.
Mr. Speaker 12:40 p.m.
For purpose of the records let us formulate them, please.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 12:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 5 (1), first line, after “Board” insert “other than the Executive Secretary shall hold office for a period not exceeding two years and is eligible for reappointment” and delete the rest of words after “reappointment”. It is not necessary that we add “but a member shall not be reappointed for . . .”
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 5 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 6 -- Meet ings of the Commission.
Mr. Hackman 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that clause 6, Head Notes, delete “Commission” and substitute “Board”.
Mr. Chireh 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I have seen
two months as the interval of meetings. I do not know whether it is really two months they want but we normally put it quarterly. So I was trying to propose an amendment to say three months.
Mr. Hackman 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I will insist on two months.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 6, line (2), after “present”, delete the rest of the words. So it shall read:
“The Chairperson shall preside at meetings of the Board and in the absence of the chairperson a member of the board elected by the members present.”
It should end there; the rest of the
words should be deleted. I so move - [Interruption] - It is repetitive; you said that there is a quorum for the Board. If there is no chairperson, they would elect from the persons present at the meeting. You do not need to say ‘from among the number shall preside'; it is repetitive.
Mr. Hackman 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I do not see what is repetitive about that clause.
Mr. Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Are you opposed to the
amendment, hon. Chairman?
Mr. Hackman 12:50 p.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think that we should support the amendment and I will urge the Chairman to withdraw his opposition to this amendment. The words that our Colleagues want to have deleted are completely irrelevant; they do not add anything to the Bill.
Mr. Hackman 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I withdraw my opposition, to the -- [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker 12:50 p.m.
What do we do? You withdraw your opposition? You support the amendment?
Mr. Hackman 12:50 p.m.
Yes.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 6 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 7 to 10 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 11 - Executive Secretary.
Mr. Hackman 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 11, add a new subclause as follows:
“there shall be a secretariat of the Commission which shall be headed by the Executive Secretary”.
Mr. Hackman 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg
to move, clause 13, subclause (1), line 1, after “Agencies” insert “and other relevant stakeholders”.
Mr. H. Iddrisu 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, even before we debate this amendment the heading there -- “Co-ordination”, I believe the drafters of the Bill intended “Collaboration”, and I rather would move that we delete “co-ordination” and substitute it with “collaboration”. If you say, “The Commission shall co-ordinate with the security agents”, co-ordinate what? They are supposed to collaborate with the security agencies. I think that should be the proper rendition there instead of “co-ordinate”. And then it will have consequential effect, wherever we have “co-ordinate”, it shall be substituted with “collaborate”.
Mr. Hackman 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I agree
to his submission.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 13 as amendment ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 14 -- Funds of the Commission.
Mr. Hackman 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 14, paragraph (a), delete “provided” and substitute “approved”.
Question put and amendment agreed
to.
Clause 14 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 15 to 17 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 18 -- Interpretation.
Mr. Hackman 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 18, interpretation, under “light weapons”, delete and substitute the following:
“‘Light weapons' means portable arms designed to be used by several persons working together in a team and which include notable:
Heavy machine guns;
Portable grenade launchers, mobile or mounted;
Portable anti-aircraft cannons;
Portable anti-tank missile launchers or rocket launchers;
Portable anti-tank cannons, non- recoil guns;
Portable anti-aircraft missile launchers;
Mortars with a calibre of less than 100 millimetres.”
Clause 18, interpretation, under “small arms”, delete and substitute the following:
“‘Small arms' means arms used by one person and which include notably:
Firearms and other destructive arms or devices such as exploding bomb, an incendiary bomb or a
gas bomb, a grenade, a rocket launcher, a missile, a missile system;
Revolvers and pistols with automatic loading;
Rifles and carbines;
Machine guns;
Assault rifles;
Light machine guns.”
Mr. Chireh 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I support
the amendment but the first “notable”, that is under “light weapons”, should be “notably” as in the second one.
Mr. Hackman 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, that is
a terrible error which must be corrected.
Mr. Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Which one is the error?
Mr. Hackman 12:50 p.m.
“Notable”, is supposed to be “Notably”, under “Heavy machine guns”.
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 12:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I propose that that word should be deleted. In a Bill, these words are quite unusual. It should end with “include”; the “notably” is completely unnecessary in a Bill.
Mr. Chireh 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I agree with the deletion. And it also appears under small arms so it should be deleted and we add just “include”.
Mr. Hackman 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I agree.
Mr. Chireh 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that the word “notably” should be deleted.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. A. O. Aidooh 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 18, “Interpretation”, delete the word “commission”.
Mr. Speaker, the reason is that we had defined the word “commission” in clause 1, so there is no longer the need to have the definition appear in clause 18.
Mr. Hackman 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I agree.
Question put and amendment agreed
to. Clause 18 as amended ordered to stand
part of the Bill.
Short Title - The Commission on Small Arms Act, 2006.
Mr. Chireh 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, the Short Title, insert “and Light Weapons”.
So that it should be “Small Arms and
Light Weapons”.
Mr. Speaker 1 p.m.
Hon. Member, are you saying we should bring in “the small”? Chairman, what do you say to this?
Mr. Hackman 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the Short Title is actually “The Commission on Small Arms and Light Weapons Act, 2006”. So I agree to this.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
The Short Title as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
The Long Title ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr. Speaker 1 p.m.
We have come to the end of the Consideration Stage. We move
BILLS - SECOND READING 1 p.m.

MR. FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr. Richmond Sam Quarm (NPP -- Gomoa East) 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I wish to present on behalf of the Chairman of the Finance Committee the Report of the Finance Committee on the Banking (Amendment) Bill.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Are you the Vice Chairman?
Mr. R. S. Quarm 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am a senior member of the Committee. [Laughter.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
All right, go ahead.
Mr. Quarm 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, in presenting the Report, I would like the Hansard to capture the entirety of the Report - [Interruption.]
Dr. Kunbuor 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, well, in the absence of the Chairman and the Vice Chairman, since he has ascribed to himself the big responsibility above the Ranking Member, as a senior member, I will give him the liberty to stand in for the Chairman regardless of how senior he considers he might be.
Mr. Quarm 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I thank my senior Colleague very much. Mr. Speaker, I would like to communicate the observation of the Committee on page 3 and ask you to authorize the Hansard Department to capture the whole Report.
1.0 Introduction
The Banking (Amendment) Bill was laid in the House on Friday, 9th March 2007 and referred to the Finance Committee for consideration and report in accordance with the 1992 Constitution and the Standing Orders of the House.
To consider the Banking Bill, the
Committee met with the Minister for Finance and Economic Planning, hon. Kwadwo Baah-Wiredu, Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning, hon. Prof. George Gyan-Baffuor, the Governor of the Bank of Ghana, Dr. Paul Acquah and officials from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning and Bank of Ghana and reports as follows:
2.0 Reference Documents
The Committee referred to the follow- ing documents in its deliberations on the Bill:
(i) 1992 Constitution of the Republic of Ghana
(ii) Bank of Ghana Law
(iii) Banking Act, 2004 (Act 673)
(iv) The Company's Code, 1963 (Act 179)
3.0 Background
The Bank of Ghana is enjoined to promote and maintain the stability of the currency of Ghana, direct and regulate the currency system in the interest of economic progress of Ghana.
The Central Bank by virtue of this constitutional provision also needs an appropriate legal framework and authority and clear standards with which to exercise firm supervision and oversight over the financial system and the payment mechanisms.
4.0 Purpose of the Bill
The purpose of the Bill is to facilitate the establishment of an International Financial Services Centre and therefore it is necessary to amend the Banking Act, 2004 (Act 673).
The Centre will provide international
Mr. Quarm 1:10 p.m.
the Banking (Amendment) Bill subject to the amendments proposed.
Respectfully submitted.

Dr. Benjamin Kunbuor (NDC --

Lawra-Nandom): Mr. Speaker, just for purposes of the record I think my hon. Colleague intended that the entire Report should be captured by the Hansard and not only limited to what he has read and the conclusion.

Mr. Speaker, this is a very, very far- reaching amendment to our Banking Law and I want hon. Colleagues to particularly take a careful look at the proposed amendments and possible reasons for them. I know hon. Colleagues will also be having the original Bill that came. As the Committee was considering it, we noticed a lot of drafting difficulties and we would want to crave their indulgence that should they find a radical departure between the Bill and the proposed amendments, they should stay more closely to the amendments proposed in the Report.

Mr. Speaker, it is indeed true that when you ring-fence our Banking structure by this amendment in getting the Class II bank actually provide some international financial transactions, it has quite a number of advantages. But we also do know that the reputation of so-called offshore companies over the years has created a number of difficulties, parti- cularly in relation to money laundering that are also related to other criminal activities. And so it is gratifying that we will also be having the Anti-Money Laundering Bill that will come before this House to give a complete complement.

Mr. Speaker, we have also looked very closely at the extent to which these amendments have tried to capture the Basel Accord II so that we would stay abreast with the state of the art in the banking sector. This has actually been the

case in relation to the capital adequacy ratio of 10 per cent that was recommended and on which the Committee spent a lot of energy.

But the banking public and I guess those interested in banking will want to know the extent of risks and the weight that has been put on those risks to actually arrive at the capital adequacy ratio of 10 and not 15, given the type of exposure that third-world banking environments are exposed to.

With these comments, Mr. Speaker, I would wish that we looked at this Amendment in terms of how it has restructured the banks; and we need to complement it with a lot of public education.

When you talk of category one, category two and category three banks the temptation is that some of the banks are of an inferior nature. It must be made clear that the category two banking institution is really one that focuses on international financial transactions and in financial currencies.

The nature of how these banks could be structured and their horizontal and vertical linkages with the other banking sectors would become very, very impor- tant. So I guess that the entire ring- fencing mechanism has been adequately captured in these proposals and I urge this House to support the amendment.
Mr. S. K. B. Manu (NPP -- Ahafo Ano South) 1:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I also rise to support the Banking (Amendment) Bill proposed before Parliament.
Mr. Speaker, if one looks at paragraph 3 of the Observations, one realizes that this opportunity to establish these international financial service centres has not come as a result of nothing. Mr. Speaker, that paragraph tells us that the preconditions for the establishment of the international financial service centre include political
stability, stable democratic conditions, growth in Gross Domestic Product (GDP), low inflation, currency and price stability, among others.
Mr. Speaker, more often than not, people who are not financially conscious or who do not know more about the financial market take political stability, low inflation and democratic institutions and growth in GDP for granted. And they often argue that if there is financial stability, if there is growth in GDP, these things do not reflect in our pockets and that that is not what Ghanaians are looking for.
I want to draw attention that this facility that we are going to have in this country, with all the benefits as enumerated in the second paragraph of the ‘Observations', has come about as a result of these itemized conditions we have in this country, and we need to cherish those conditions when we are fighting for their existence.
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Hon. Member for Lawra-Nandom, are you rising on a point of order?
Dr. Kunbuor 1:10 p.m.
Yes, I was thinking that for purposes of the record, my hon. Colleague is misleading the House. Even the Memorandum accompanying the Bill has talked about anticipated benefits. So he should not just draw a direct relationship as if once this amendment goes through this House, all those benefits arrive automatically. They have to be consciously worked at.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Hon. Member, I believe that is not a point of order.
Attorney-General and Minister for Justice (Mr. Joe Ghartey): Mr. Speaker,
with respect to my learned Colleague, this is one time that he has totally missed the point. Because, the point that is being made is that these preconditions exist and it is because they exist that the Bank of Ghana finds it adequate at this time to pass this Bill. The ‘Observations' did indicate and indeed, the purpose of this Act does not say that when this amendment is passed, this will happen. It says that because we have political stability, because our currency is stable, because the economic conditions are correct, the time is ripe for this Bill to be passed. It is not the Bill that will create political stability; the political stability already exists as it can be seen by me and him sitting here arguing with each other and smiling at each other.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
In any case, I believe we need not split hairs over that.
Dr. Kunbuor 1:10 p.m.
Just for purposes of the record. There were two arguments that were raised -- the preconditions that led to the Bill and the anticipated gains. My point of order was on the anticipated gains that he presented as if they were automatic and sine qua non to the passage of this Bill. I do not want to be tempted to get into that debate about the existing environment and its correctness.
Mr. Manu 1:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would not have come up again but if he cares to look at paragraph 2 of the ‘Observations', and with your indulgence I quote for his attention --
“The Committee again observed that the country would enjoy a number of benefits when the International Financial Services Centre is established in the country. These benefits include the inflow of foreign deposits in foreign currency
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Hon.
Manu, you have made your point and as I said, we need not split hairs over that. It is anticipated benefits that we are all assuming that this Amendment, if put in place will invite; I think we all understand it from another angle. Any more comments on that before I put the Question? The last comment from you, hon. Member for Wa West.
Mr. Joseph Yieleh Chireh (NDC-- Wa West) 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I support this Amendment and even though we expect to reap some benefits, there are also real dangers. As we talk about the benefits, we should be aware of the dangers; the dangers include the likelihood of laundering of bad money. That is why the Anti-Money Laundering Bill is before this House. But I think that we are doing the wrong thing; we should have put that Bill and the Proceeds of Crime Bill, pass them first before we introduce this one.
Again, my concern is about the capacity
to monitor and ensure that wrongdoing does not take place in the context of this Amendment. We do not seem to have this, technologically and also in terms of personnel. And I would urge that the two Bills that are yet to be passed by this House be considered seriously, and after their passage we should strengthen these institutions to ensure that we do not run
foul of the benefits that we expect to get from this Amendment.
Class II Banking, as we all know, has something to do with banking that really all of us are not involved in as citizens or residents; and it is elsewhere. The benefits are, as we are aware, likely to come; but there are real dangers. That is why I am very worried about the position of the bodies that should monitor; that we do not allow crooks from elsewhere to come and damage the reputation of good Ghana.
Mr. J. H. Mensah (NPP -- Sunyani East) 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, very, very briefly -- to try and change the tone of our discussions a bit. Our lawyer friends always tell us that a man is presumed innocent until he is proven guilty. When we pass laws we pass them on the assumption that people will behave well. Mr. Speaker, this is not a police institution; this is a legislative institution.
Mr. Speaker, just to make a joke 1:20 p.m.
when the British economy started expanding in the 16th Century the main investors were pirates, and the Queen was supposed to have had a lover who was a pirate. Mr. Speaker, that money did good for Britain. Today, Africa is full of instability. People with assets which they want to keep secure and safe should have an instrument like this, a facility like this whereby they will bring their money into a safe location; and granting them a safe location is part of the purpose of this Bill. Once the money arrives here however, we want to ensure -- [Interruption.]
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Hon. Lee Ocran, are you on a point of order?
Mr. Ocran 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, on a point of clarification from the hon. Senior Minister. I do not support his saying that money -- [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Hon. Member, there is no part of our rules that says that you rise on a point of clarification; either you want to rise on a point of order or maybe you seek permission to give information.
Mr. Ocran 1:20 p.m.
It is there.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Can you tell me where it is?
Mr. Ocran 1:20 p.m.
I would want the Senior Minister to continue, but I am afraid, Mr. Speaker, that corruption money can be brought here and that is not fair.
Mr. J. H. Mensah 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, once we debated financial proposals in this House and I had reason to caution my Colleagues that private money is rather “shy” money and when you deal with such “shy” money you deal with it on rules other than are applicable to public money. And the point I was going on to make was this, that when these moneys arrive here, in a safe haven, we must have the maximum opportunities for for money to contribute to the development of Ghana's economy and not just being a parking place for safety and security.
And so in going into details of this Bill and even more its application, we must encourage the banking authorities to make sure that this is an opportunity to correct one of the problems that we have been suffering from, which is that the mass flows of money in the international system have so far mostly passed us by.
The inflow of capital into the economy is still highly inadequate and it is one of the big hurdles that we have to overcome, especially now that we are setting ourselves more ambitious targets of becoming a middle-income country. All the most successful economies of the world have been built, thanks to these movements of international capital - private capital. And so the difference between Africa and, for instance, South East Asia in recent years has been that while we rely on foreign official assistance, in South East Asia their success has been financed by the inflow of foreign private capital; and that is the point that we must always observe in our discussions.
With this, I support the Bill, Mr. Speaker.
Question put and motion agreed to.
The Banking (Amendment) Bill was accordingly read a Second time.
Suspension of Standing Order 128 (1)
Prof. Gyan-Baffuor (on behalf of the
Minister for Finance and Economic Planning) 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 128 (1) which require that when a Bill has been read a Second time it shall pass through a Consideration Stage which shall not be taken until at least forty- eight hours have elapsed, the Considera- tion Stage of the Banking (Amendment) Bill may be taken today.
Mr. Richmond S. Quarm 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to second the motion.
Question put and motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
BILLS -- CONSIDERATION 1:20 p.m.

STAGE 1:20 p.m.

Mr. Quarm 1:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker,I beg to move, clause 1, after “amended”, delete all words and substitute
“by the addition of a new paragraph
(d) ensuring the safety, soundness and stability of the financial system in this country”.
Dr. Kunbuor 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, initially the Bill contained a regulatory philosophy of “soundness and stability”. And I said this country has had its own fair share of bank rounds in terms of the BCCI experience and so “safety” ought to also be added to ensure that we have a holistic, regulatory, philosophical understanding of the banking industry in this country. Because, the Basel Accord actually provides for regulating to achieve “safety, soundness, and stability” and not only “soundness and stability” as was originally in the Bill.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
Hon. Members, it says here that the amendment is seeking to insert a new subclause (d), but we do not have a (c), so I am wondering where we are moving to.
Mr. Quarm 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, there is (c) in the parent Act 673.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
Parent Act?
Mr. Quarm 1:30 p.m.
Yes.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
Fair enough, but that is not before us; that is why I am saying so anyway.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it seems to me as if there is not much
difference between the (b) as it appears in clause 1 of the Bill and the (d) that they are proposing, except that they are preceding “soundness and stability” with “safety”. And I do not know how come that becomes (d) while (b) stands as it is.
Mr. Chireh 1:30 p.m.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, I do not think the hon. Minister is looking at the two documents. One of them is Act 673 which we are amending; the paragraphing there is what is being amended and therefore if he looks at it the (d) follows logically from the main Act.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 1:30 p.m.
So what about (b)? That is my problem. The Bill says:
“Subsection (1) of section 2 of the Banking Act, 2004 (Act 673) referred to as the principal enactment is amended by the deletion of paragraph (b) and the insertion of
(b), ensuring the soundness and stability of the financial system in this country”.
Now the amendment proposed says after “amended” delete all the words and substitute by the addition of a new paragraph (d). So I do not really understand it. Does it mean that we are going to have (b) -- “ensuring the soundness and stability of the financial system in this country”? And then (d), “ensuring the safety, soundness and stability of the financial system in this country”?
Dr. Kunbuor 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, in my opening remarks, I drew attention that if you stay with the Bill, you are going to run into a lot of problems. Because, we noticed that the drafting instructions from Cabinet were not followed consistently. So if you look at the amendment, the Bill, and you do not look at the Parent Act-- It was because you made a comparison with the Parent Act that we saw that we could not
have what the Bill was purporting to do; and that was why that change was made. But if you go back to Act 673 and you do not even look at the Bill and you look at the proposed amendment, it fits in.
We noticed that there were so many of those things; even instead of delete they might say add, instead of add they might say insert. And there were all those problems that we tried to clean up to get it consistent. So with the Order Paper and the parent Act 673, you get a clearer picture instead of going back to the Bill.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, that is well understood. However, I am a little bit puzzled by the addition of “safety”. I would have thought that in terms of banking and finance, “safety” may be the same as “soundness”. Unless of course, we are saying that “safety” is something different. And indeed, from the contribution of the Ranking Member, I do not seem to appreciate the difference between “safety and soundness”.
Dr. Kunbuor 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the difference is a term of art. To anybody who is conversant with the current international basic rules on international banking, it is clear that “soundness” actually deals with the viability of the entity itself. When you are dealing with “safety” you are now dealing with the other part, the people who are depositing, to ensure that there are in-built mechanisms; that they not lose their deposits. That is the distinction between the two.
First, you must bring in something to make you financially credible; that is “sound” with a track record. That is why the provision requires some of category II banks to actually be offshoots from renowned banking institutions around the world. That satisfies the “sound-ness”. But when you come to “safety”, you also want to be seen to be regulating and that is where capital adequacy ratio and the type of capital you bring in comes in. So I
Dr. A. A. Osei 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I just want to assure the hon. Minister that I fully support my Colleagues.
Question put and amendment agreed to, viz:
Clause 1, after “amended” delete all words and substitute by the addition of a new paragraph --
“(d) ensuring the safety, soundness and stability of the financial system in this country”.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I stood up long ago and I thought I would catch your eye.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
You have caught my eye now.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I wanted us to have a second look at the words “in this country”. Mr. Speaker, we are making the laws for Ghana and not Nigeria or United States of America.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
Hon. Member, I suppose I have put the Question already; there will be some other opportunity for you to come back.
Clause 1 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 3 -- Section 4 of Act 673 amended.
Mr. Quarm 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move -- the principal enactment is amended by the substitution for section 4 of
“4. (1) No person shall carry on the business of banking in or from within Ghana except by or under the authority of a licence issued in accordance with this Act.
( 2 ) N o p e r s o n s h a l l u s e a banking licence for any purpose other than that for which it is issued.
( 3 ) A p e r s o n w h o contravenes subsections (1) and (2) of this section commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction --
(a) in the case of a body cor-porate or other body of persons to a fine not exceeding three thousand penalty units; and
(b) in the case of an individual to a fine not exceeding three thousand penalty units or to a term of imprisonment not exceeding ten years.”
Mr. Joe Ghartey 1:30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I just
heard you say that our Orders do not provide for clarification, and I agree with that. But with respect, this amendment that is being proposed, if we could know the basis for it. For example, the first one that they suggested, the parent Act says that
“no person shall carry on business of banking except by or under the authority of licence issued in accordance with this Act”.
They are proposing that we should say that
“No person shall carry on the
Mr. Joe Ghartey 1:40 p.m.


Mr. Speaker, the essence of this Bill set is that it creates different categories of banks. It creates the situation where people are carrying on business in or from within Ghana. So what is the point of stating it? It means that you can only carry out the business of banking in Ghana except under the authority of the Banking Act, 2004, Act 673 as amended.

So this “in or within Ghana”, serves no useful purpose. We are not defining a new concept. Now they say that “no person shall use …”; they have included a “to” - “no person shall use a banking licence for any purpose other than that for which it is issued.”

The old one too says that, “a person who carries on a banking business without a licence commits an offence and is liable to summary conviction.” What is the difference again? The whole intent and purpose of the old one is that if you do not have a licence you cannot carry on the business of banking. It is as simple as that, and so within these amendments -- perhaps I am missing the point.

Even though you say the clarification is not important, he would assist me to support him if he explains to me the little details that led the committee to this conclusion of splitting hairs and using fine language, different language which to me might be the same thing.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
Yes, hon. Members, the hon. Minister is seeking an explanation for your proposed amendment so that he could be on all fours with you or support your amendment.
Mr. Chireh 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, this amendment, “in or from within Ghana” is because the concept of this type of banking

He asked whether there is a difference; yes, indeed with this one, there are supposed to be three categories of banks. We have a bank that is Class I; then we have another bank that is Class II; but in- between the two we now have a general licence bank which is a combination of the two depending on the circumstances. At least, this is what I learnt from the workshop that was organized to discuss this Bill.
Dr. A. A. Osei 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I just conferred with associates at the Bank of Ghana and they appear to agree with the hon. Attorney-General that the old Act, as stated, covers what we are trying to achieve.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
I believe he himself is convinced about that.
Dr. A. A. Osei 1:40 p.m.
So I think that even though the Committee might have thought otherwise, I conferred with the lawyers at the Bank of Ghana and as long as -- [Interruption.]
Mr. Chireh 1:40 p.m.
If the Attorney-General wants, he can further amend because the amendment is what we are going to vote on.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
No, I suppose I am in charge.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
For the Chairman to withdraw the amendment, is that the case? Hon. Chairman, are you inclined to withdrawing it?
Mr. R. S. Quarm 1:40 p.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker; let us stand it down.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
Are you withdrawing it or you are standing it down?
Mr. Quarm 1:40 p.m.
I am withdrawing, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Ghartey 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I should have been happy that it is withdrawn, but I do not want to bamboozle him to do something that he does not want to do. In fact, the objection -- this section 4, which can be found on page 5 of the Report that was given to us, contains 1, 2, 3 (a) and (b) amendments. My objection so far has been in respect of 4 (1) and 4 (2) and not the entire clause. So maybe if he looks at it and withdraws 4 (1) and 4 (2) then we will look at 4 (3) and see whether 4 (3) is sufficient, if he tells us the thinking behind 4 (3) as well.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
I suppose you are rather making the situation a bit more confusing. I want to listen to what you want, Chairman of the Committee.
Mr. Quarm 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the lawyers have spoken. For this new Bill, the idea behind it when we were at Ho is that we are now going to have a Class I bank -- [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
That has been explained by hon. Yieleh Chireh.
Mr. Quarm 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to further give some clarifications, otherwise

I am getting confused myself.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
Very well.
Mr. Quarm 1:40 p.m.
The Class I banks will
be dealing with residents only and they could be dealing in Ghanaian currency and foreign currencies. Class II banks will deal solely with non-residents and with foreign currencies. So it means, they could be operating from the UK, the United States, offshore without having physical facilities in Ghana. I suppose that is the meaning which is captured in the phrase “in or from within Ghana”. So Mr. Speaker, 4 (1) and 4 (2), I do not know what the Attorney-General is implying.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
And for that reason, you are withdrawing or you are not withdrawing? That is what I want to know.
Mr. Quarm 1:40 p.m.
I want to hear my Ranking Member.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
No, I will hear you; I want your own position on the matter.
Mr. Quarm 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I stand it down.
Dr. Kunbuor 1:40 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, one is not in a position to look at these amendments that are proposed in isolation. The first thing is that you must have Act 673 with you. I did in my introductory remarks draw attention to the fact that the Amendment Bill itself contains a lot of difficulties. That is why we decided to clear some of those difficulties by doing these detailed amendments in this Report.
Now, the basic idea here is that when you are dealing with the Class II banks they are not even permitted to actually take deposits from within Ghana; that is, except that they are dealing with a
Mr. Ghartey 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, having heard all the hon. Members who spoke, I now say that I would urge them to withdraw the amendment. I would urge them to withdraw the amendment because whether a bank is Category I, Category II, or Category III, the bank would be operating under the Banking Act of 2004, Act 673 as amended.
Therefore, the rendition of the provision of the Parent Act which says that “No person shall carry on the business of banking except by or under the authority of a licence issued in accordance with this Act” is correct. This is because whether you are carrying on a Category I business of banking, a Category II business of banking or a Category III business of banking, you can only carry it out if you are licensed under the Act. So from within and without does not matter.
Indeed, the policy remains the same. Why we are amending this Act is to take care of the new categories of banks that we envisage. The International Financial
Services Centre and all those people would not operate under a different Act; they would operate under this Act, as amended. So one cannot carry on a business of banking except under this Act. I would not repeat myself; I know they understand and I urge them to withdraw it.
Dr. Kunbuor 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, just to clarify. There is again a misunderstanding. When these amendments are actually adop ted they au tomat ica l ly ge t incorporated as part of the Banking Act. The Act that is referred to here is the one that would come into being when this amendment takes effect. This is because we are not talking of the Act that is now to be amended.
When we finish the amendment and this becomes law, all these become part of a part of the Banking Act that has all these amendments within it. So we are not referring to Act here in relation to only Act 673, but the new Act that would come into being when this amendment goes through. That is the context in which this has been used.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Hon. Kunbuor, you have not added much to that. The question therefore is that, are you withdrawing or you are insisting on that?
Dr. Kunbuor 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, in the light of all these controversies, I think we need to stand down or defer this particular matter on banking because the Chairman is not here, the Vice-Chairman is not here and I think that, I should not be seen performing that role. But there were many, many factors that went into this and that is why I think that, to be very fair to those who have sponsored this amendment -- [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
You have even drawn a sharper stick into the confusion. What we wanted, and indeed the hon. Attorney-General had
made it very clear, is that at the end of the day the Banking Act, that is Act 673 as amended will be what will apply. Indeed, the amendment is seeking to ensure that Category II as has been referred to is also included in banking practices in this country.
Once we amend it then that is the prevailing law and if you are seeking that we should suspend the passage of this law, what exactly do you want to be done? I believe you are in a situation that can adequately take care of what you are doing, and the other hon. Member also.
Dr. Kunbuor 1:50 p.m.
There is another amend- ment actually. When you go and look at the definition in the amendment it has also gone to define what we mean by ‘banking business' and that has changed the entire tenor of what we mean by ‘banking business' radically, different from what we have under Act 673. So if you read the definition of banking business together with this you will get the import of the amendment, because the banking business that Act 673, unamended, was addressing is entirely different from the nature of banking business that the amendment is about.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Hon. Kunbuor, in that case, are you standing by the amendment or you are asking that it should be withdrawn?
Dr. Kunbuor 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, all I am saying is that I do not believe that we need to withdraw this amendment. We do not need to withdraw it because I am very clear in my mind that a lot of debate went into this. If you go to the definition -- that is why I have drawn your attention-- you can perhaps stand it down till you get to the definition of ‘banking business' in the Bill and then you will begin to see why this new rendition has been brought.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Hon. Members, we need not waste too much time on that. Just as he pointed out, the
Mr. Quarm 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, we should stand it down.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Very well. The consideration of that amendment is therefore deferred accordingly.
Mr. A.O. Aidooh 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I did not get what you said. This clause is deferred?
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
This clause is stood down for further consideration.
Clause 4 -- Section 5 of Act 673 amended.
Mr. Quarm 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 4, delete and substitute the following:
“Section 5 of Act 673 amended.”
The principal enactment is amended by the substitution for section 5 of
“5. (1) An application for a licence shall be made in writing to the Bank of Ghana and shall be accompanied with --
(a) a certified true copy of the Regulations or other instrument relating to the proposed bank or under which a person pro-posing to carry on the banking business was established;
(b) the names, addresses, and occupations of persons inclu-ding the corporate affiliations who will hold significant shareholdings, directly or indirectly, in the proposed banking business
Mr. Ghartey 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, with
Dr. Kunbuor 1:50 p.m.
On a point of order. I think the hon. Minister is misleading the House; (c) is not the same. If you look at it, (a), (b), (c) are not the same. Because of the new definition of ‘banking business', the definition of ‘banking business' that we had in Act 673 is different from what we have now, with the amendment. So it is not the same. Look very carefully
at the exact words that were used in Act 673 and look very closely at what is being done here.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Indeed, hon. Kunbuor, from the beginning you did inform the House at the Second Reading that the proposed amendments, as appearing in the Report itself, appear to have changed significantly the Act itself and that you were urging the House to stick strictly to the newly-proposed amendment. I believe that is the case and for that matter, I would urge you, hon. Attorney-General and Minister for Justice that the Committee considered it -- It is unfortunate that the Committee Chairman is not here, but the Committee considered these amendments in detail and for that matter we must indulge them a little and get along with them.
Dr. A. A. Osei 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I crave your indulgence; I think that we should not mislead the House. Whether the Chairman is here or not, I ask your permission to read what is in the parent Act and read what is in the amendment so we would clarify. In the Act,
“5 (1) x x x x x
(a) a certified true copy of the Regulations or other instru- ments relating to the proposed bank or under which a person proposing to carry on the banking business was esta- blished.”
The amendment,
“5 (1) x x x x x
(a) a certified true copy of the Regulations or other instru- ments relating to the proposed bank or under which a person

proposing to carry on the banking business was esta- blished.”

Mr. Speaker, the same thing is what is
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Acting Chairman, could you explain a little?
Mr. Quarm 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it has arisen because of the numbering, recomposition and sequencing. That is the main reason.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
I agree with you.
Mr. Chireh 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think that the Attorney-General is not doing us any good.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
He has not made any contributions so far?
Mr. Chireh 1:50 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, what I am saying is that this Bill was amended with his Department as draftpersons advising the Bank of Ghana. If you are amending a whole section and you are introducing new ones which would make it an extensive substitution, you just sub-stitute and add. So if he has the time he should go and look at what is being proposed and what is already inside.
The differences, as you rightly pointed out, if he was the one really moving the amendment, should be indicated. Here, because of this change, we have decided that this should be the other one. But we at the committee level decided that because of the extensive amendments that
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Hon.
Attorney-General, your last word. I am inclined to go along but you are the chief legal adviser so we want to listen to you.
Mr. Ghartey 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, we proposed the amendment and then the Committee proposed another amendment; so these amendments are not amendments of the Attorney-General's office; they are the amendments of the Committee. I wish to make that point.
Dr. Kunbuor 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I want to give some background to the hon. Attorney-General to understand. When the Committee was considering the amendments in the Bill, we noticed that the Cabinet drafting instructions were not followed so we had to bring the drafting instructions and we noticed that what was recommended by Cabinet in their drafting instructions were not contained in the Bill.
So we had to leave the Bill and go back to the Cabinet drafting instructions, and that is why you are having this problem. Go and compare the Bill and compare the drafting instructions and you would see where this difficulty lies. So we thought that if this Bill must go through with the speed that it deserves, we needed to go back to the Cabinet drafting instructions and not to hang on to a Bill that had so many defects in terms in drafting.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
You have
made your point, hon. Kunbuor, let us continue and do business.
Mr. A.O. Aidooh 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I think whatever it is, the amendment is not exactly the same as we have in the Bill, and I think it is a neater way of doing the work. Instead of saying delete here and there, I think it is a better way. I would therefore, with all respect, ask the hon. Attorney-General of the Republic of Ghana to consider withdrawing his objection.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
Yes, hon. Member, do you agree now?
Mr. Ghartey 2 p.m.
Reluctantly. Mr. Speaker, I agree reluctantly.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, just a small correction because clause 5(1)(a), the original talks about a certified true copy of the regulations or any other instrument relating to the proposed bank -- [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
What are you reading? Are you proposing an amendment or what?
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the amendment leaves out the word “any”; that is, after “all”. So it should read “a certified true copy of the regulations or any other instrument”.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
I believe what you are proposing is neater and more elegant so we would go by that. So what you are saying is that the proposed amendment should be further amended by the insertion of the word “any” so that the rendition should read “a certified true copy of the regulations or any other instrument relating . . .”
Question put and amendment agreed
Mr. Quarm 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 5, delete “inserted in Act 673” and substitute “of Act 673 inserted”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 5 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 6 and 7 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 8 -- Section 8 of Act 673 amended.
Mr. Quarm 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 8, paragraph (a), line 1, delete “in subsection 1”.
Dr. Kunbuor 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the acting Chairman should have given a background. When you go back to Act 673 you would see that there is no subsection (1) and yet in the Bill for amendment, they were asking us to actually insert something after subsection (1) and that is one of those typical examples.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Quarm 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 8, paragraph (a), add a sub- paragraph as follows:
“(a) by the numbering of section 8 as 8 (1)”.
Mr. Speaker, it was a numbering issue.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
That is very simple and we should agree to that.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 8 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
Yes, hon. Kyei-Mensash-Bonsu, what is your problem?
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, there is nothing wrong with me. I believe there is something wrong with what we are doing.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
Why do you say that?
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the first one brought it home to us that the parent Act that we are looking at does not have a (1), does not have a (2).
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
That is exactly so.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, now we are being told -- [Interruption] -- Well, the hon. Deputy Minister told me that there is a new development so I am standing down what I am saying for the time being.

Clauses 9 to 11 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 12 -- Section 13, of Act 673 amended.
Mr. Quarm 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg
to move, clause 12, paragraph (e), delete “depo-sitories” and substitute “depositors”.
Mr. Speaker, it is a spelling mistake.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 12 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 13 to 15 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 16 -- Section 23 of Act 673 amended.
Mr. Quarm 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 16, subclause (1), line 2, delete “10%” and substitute “ten”.
Dr. Kunbuor 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it is very important for purposes of the record that the reasons for the amendment are at least stated. What we see here is that the figure “10%” was not in the parent Act; it was “ten” in words, “per cent” in words, and yet they brought what otherwise normally go to schedules, the figure “10%”, and that was why we recommended that if it is actually Act 673 we are amending and say we want to create a different regime, then we should let it tally with Act 673.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Quarm 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 16, subclause (1), line 2, delete “10” and substitute “ten”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 16 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 17 -- Section 29 of Act 673 amended.
Mr. Quarm 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 17, line 3, delete “at the beginning of the subsection” and
substitute “after ‘bank' in line 1 of the subsection”.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
Well, no explanation, Chairman, since you would propose and hon. Kunbuor would do the explanation. Can you explain?
Mr. Quarm 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, because he is my Ranking Member.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
Hon. Ranking Member, could you take on your duty? Are you explaining?
Dr. Kunbuor 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I do not think I want to take that responsibility of explaining, but the important thing is that when you see the line 3, delete “at the beginning of the subsection” and substitute “after ‘bank' …” it is just to keep it in line with the parent Act. Because we have changed redesignations altogether, if it is not done that way then we would not have the meaning that it should have in the proposed amendment. It is very, very much consequential, actually.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the amendment to me is rather confusing; I cannot make head or tail of what we have on the paper. Mr. Speaker, line 3, delete -- and we are deleting these words, “at the beginning of the subsection” - and substitute “after ‘bank' in line 1 of the subsection”.
Dr. Kunbuor 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would want him to go and read clause 17 of the
Bill which seeks to amend section 29; and he will find out that it is precisely because this proposed amendment does not make sense that we have introduced this other amendment. If we leave it as it stands in the Bill, we do not just know what it really means. So he should go back to the Bill; he should go back to Act 673 and he should read it together with this amendment, and he will see what we are trying to cure there.
Otherwise, I do not see what clause 17 seeking to amend section 29 means; and that is the Bill that has created the problem. We have looked at the drafting instructions and we are clear in our minds that this was what they intended or directed that should be done, and that is why we have rendered it this way.
It says that section 29 of the principal enactment is amended in subsection (1) by the insertion of the words, “holding a general banking licence or a bank holding a Class I banking licence”, at the beginning of the subsection. Let us go to section 29. All that I am indicating to him is that clause 17 is seeking to introduce an amendment of section 29 which does not arise.
That is why we are saying that in place of that perhaps -- help us with what is in the drafting instruction. He should read that and he would see the import of why we have to do it that way. I do not have a copy of the drafting instructions here. Do you have the drafting instructions there?
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
Please, speak to the Chair and stop exchanging words.
Dr. Kunbuor 2:20 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am sorry. I have seen the hon. Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning; he has a copy of the drafting instructions and that would at least help us resolve this problem
  • [DR. KUNDUOR
  • Dr. A. A. Osei 2:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I do not have it.
    Dr. Kunbuor 2:20 p.m.
    In the absence of what ought to be right, we are just trying to help out in a bad situation. That is why I am saying that if he brings the drafting instructions I can tell the hon. Member exactly what we wanted to do; perhaps the hon. Deputy Minister can do that.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    Hon. Members, we will continue.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 17 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clauses 18 and 19 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clause 20 -- Section 38 of Act 673 amended.
    Chairman of the Committee 2:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 20, add a new paragraph (c) as follows:
    “ ( c ) b y t h e a d d i t i o n o f a new subsection (4) --
    (4) Sect ion 38 (1) (e) sha l l not apply where
    (a) a person appointed as a director for the ARB Apex Bank Ltd is a representative of a bank that is an affiliate to the ARB Apex Bank Ltd.; or
    (b) in the opinion of the Bank of Ghana,
    special circumstances require that the person be appointed as director
    of another bank.”
    Mr. Speaker, the reason behind this is that section 38 of the parent Act actually seeks to debar people from holding two directorships in the rural bank and the ARB Apex Bank Limited.
    Mr. A. O. Aidooh 2:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I propose that we suspend further work on this Bill till tomorrow.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    Hon. Members, that is the proposal on the floor by the hon. Deputy Majority Leader. Ranking Member of the Committee, what do you say to that?
    Dr. Kunbuor 2:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I really support the proposal because if you look at what is creating the offence -- it is simply again where we have put the quotation marks. The quotation mark should not even have anything to do with -- [Interruption.]
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    Hon. Dr. Kunbuor, that is the proposal. Are you supporting it? I am not seeking that you should explain further. You have supported it and for that matter -- [Interruption.]
    Dr. Kunbuor 2:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I said in actually seconding the motion, I want to draw attention as to what should be corrected, even before we come here to the Order Paper, because it is part of the problem.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    Do that with the Chairman and other Members of the Committee. Hon. Members, in the cir- cumstance, we defer further consideration of the Banking (Amendment) Bill.
    Mr. A. O. Aidooh 2:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I plead that we move to item 23.
    Suspension of Standing Order 80 (1)
    Minister for National Security (Mr. Francis Poku) 2:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 80(1) which require that no motion shall be debated until at least forty-eight hours have elapsed between the date on which notice of the motion is given and the date on which the motion is moved, the motion for the Second Reading of the Restriction on Use of Military Uniforms and Equipment (Amendment) Bill may be moved today.
    Alhaji Sumani Abukari 2:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to second the motion.
    Question put and motion agreed to.
    Resolved accordingly.
    BILLS -- SECOND READING 2:20 p.m.

    Minister for National Security (Mr. Francis Opoku) 2:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that the Restriction on Use of Military Uniforms and Equipment (Amendment) Bill be now read a Second time.
    Mr. Speaker, the Bill does not seek to amend the parent law, that is the use of Military Uniforms and Equipment Decree, 1967 which is the law that regulates importation, sale, purchase and use of military uniforms and equipment. The amendment is only seeking to make the pecuniary penalty more realistic. This is in view of the current trend whereby certain individuals are misusing military uniforms for the commission of armed robberies and for the commission of other acts of intimidation. The Military Uniforms and Equipment (Amendment) Bill is seeking to make the pecuniary penalty more realistic.
    Question proposed.
    Chairman of the Committee (Mr. E. A. Agyepong) 2:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I would crave your indulgence to correct the Bill before I present the Report. Mr. Speaker, in the Bill, there is a mistake of “500” and “2000”. They should rather read “50” and “200”. This is simply because if a person should use the uniform and they charge 500 penalty units, it is just a big, substantial amount. So Mr. Speaker, I seek your leave and the leave of the House to -- [Interruption.]
    rose
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    Hon. Doe Adjaho, you should catch my eye rather than me catching your voice. So please, take your seat.
    Mr. E. A. Agyepong 2:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, that is the correction I seek your leave and the leave of the House to make before I continue. Mr. Speaker, to continue as stated by the hon. Minister, the NLCD 117 sought to regulate the use of military uniforms and your Committee's Report is highlighting the same issue.
    Mr. Speaker, the Report is just one and half pages and therefore hon. Members can read it. I would be reading only the ‘Conclusion' and seek your permission to allow the Hansard to capture it. 1.0 Introduction
    The Restriction on Use of Military Uniforms and Equipment (Amendment) Bill was laid before the House on the 11th December 2006 and referred to the Committee on Defence and Interior for consideration and report in accordance with article 103 of the 1992 Constitution and Orders 125 and 158 of the Standing Orders of the House.

    In pursuance of its mandate, the Committee met with the Minister for National Security and his Chief Director to deliberate on the Bill.

    2.0 References

    The Committee during its deliberations, made reference to the underlisted documents:

    i. The 1992 Constitution of the Republic of Ghana

    ii. The Standing Orders of Parliament

    i i i . R e s t r i c t i o n o n U s e o f Military Uniforms and Equipment Decree, 1967 (N.L.C.D.

    177)

    3.0 Background Information

    The Law which currently regulates the importation, sale, purchase and use of military uniforms and equipment is the Restriction on the Use of Military Uniforms and Equipment Decree, 1967

    (N.L.C.D. 177).

    The Decree specifies the categories of persons allowed to wear or use military uniforms, equipment and accoutrements. It also restricts the sale, purchase and use of military uniforms by authorized persons and subsequently prescribes punishment for contravention of its provisions. 4.0 Object of the Bill

    The Bill seeks to amend Section 4(1) of the N.L.C.D. 177 to increase the penalty for the contravention of provisions under the Decree to deter and prohibit the importation, sale, purchase and use of military uniforms and equipment without authorization.

    5.0 Observations

    The Commit tee observed that

    though the Decree provides penalties for the contravention of its provisions, the pecuniary penalty is completely inadequate hence the need to impose stiffer punishment.

    5.1 The Committee noted that the illegal use of military uniforms and equipment has been on the increase. Criminals resort to the use of military uniforms and equipment to commit crimes. Imposters, for instance, dupe unsuspecting members of the public who yield to their demands on the presumption that persons in military uniforms are security personnel.

    This phenomenon invariably thwarts the efforts of Security Agencies in maintaining law and order.

    6.0 Amendment Proposed

    Line Two - delete “500” and substitute

    “50”.

    Line Three - delete “2000” and substitute “200”.

    7.0 Conclusion and Recommendation

    The menace often created by the unauthorized use of military uniforms and equipment by unsuspecting persons cannot be overemphasized. Due to the threat it poses to the security of the country, it is imperative that steps are taken to curtail this situation. The amendment of Section 4(1) of the Decree to provide stiffer punishment to curb this menace is in the right direction.

    The Committee hereby recommends to the House the adoption of its Report on the Restriction on Use of Military Uniforms and Equipment (Amendment) Bill.

    Respectfully submitted.
    Alhaji Sumani Abukari (NDC -- Tamale North) 2:30 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, once again, I think this is a Bill that is not long, it is not contentious, and I think that it is something that we should all agree with.
    Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that NLCD 177 is out of date completely. Mr. Speaker, if you consider the penalty, it talks of 500 cedis and definitely, nobody talks about 500 cedis these days. Not even my son who goes to school will take 500 cedis. But Mr. Speaker, it merely changes the sentencing from 500 cedis to 50 penalty units and 200 penalty units with the subsequent alternative that translates to ¢6 million and ¢24 million and the subsequent alternative imprisonment of not less than three months, but not exceeding 12 months.
    Mr. Speaker, the minimum sentencing has been stated so that we do not leave it in the state in which it was originally where a person caught with military equipment, military uniforms and such things could go and get himself sentenced in a village magistrate's court to two weeks or one week, trivializing the offence. So the provision has been made for the minimum sentence to be three months and the maximum to be 12 months.
    Mr. Speaker, I think this is just to update the sentencing to make it more relevant and to deter criminals. In fact, Mr. Speaker, sometime ago, on the Kintampo- Techiman road, people in military and police uniforms who were actually armed robbers -- I believe that some of my hon. Colleagues from Brong Ahafo, the Ejura area will bear testimony to this -- created false road-blocks at night.
    Mr. Speaker, they trapped market women and not only stole their money and clothing but stripped them naked and beat
    them up mercilessly; and these people were in military and police uniforms. So when the people came to report and they were asked, they said the robbers were in military and police uniforms. Subse- quently, a heroic police woman led a team to arrest some of them and then they were found out to be criminals -- armed robbers.
    So Mr. Speaker, with such experiences, it is only in order that such sentences are enhanced and such people should be prevented from wearing military uniforms. And Mr. Speaker, if you read the substantive Act, military uniform includes the uniform of the Military, the Police and the Prison Service; that is how it defines “military uniform”. So that such people are prevented from wearing military uniform and prevented from harassing innocent citizens of this land.
    Mr. Speaker, this, I think, should be the concern of all of us and I think we should all approve it to bring more peace to all Ghanaians.
    Mr. E. K. D. Adjaho (NDC -- Avenor/ Ave) 2:30 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I have a problem with this Bill. Now that we have a Minister in charge of National Security, and listening to the Ranking Member, I thought the opportunity has now come for us to review the whole law. It is not only military uniforms that are being used; police uniforms are also being used, so that if we bring the police uniform also on line we will approach the matter holistically.
    Indeed, I have taken notice that this is a 1967 Decree, after the first coup and after 40 years we might have problems with that Decree itself. We have moved far away from that position since and we have to look at the whole issue, bringing on board the situation that we have a lot of other institutions whose staff wear certain uniforms that look like military uniforms.
    Mr. H. Iddrisu (NDC -- Tamale South) 2:30 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I rise to associate myself with the motion for the amendment of Military Uniforms and Equipment (Amendment) Bill except to say that it will be important when we move along to want to review the whole NLCD 177 to make a distinction as to the punishment for people using uniforms and equipment. Because for now, we have about the same standard and I thought that people using equipment ought to suffer even a much more stiffer penalty in terms of it.
    The other important reason why I
    support this is that many people have dented the image of our security agencies by their use of such military uniforms and equipment. People who otherwise are not members of the security services either violently abuse the Ghanaian citizen using that as a mark, or other related issues.
    Mr. Speaker, my other concern will be to refer you to the Committee's Report, page 3, first paragraph, and I think that when we get to the Consideration Stage we may be able to resolve it.
    If you look at the Long Title and by paragraph 6.0 of the Committee's Report, they are just proposing two amendments -- 50 penalty units and 200 penalty units. If you read the Long Title -- An Act to amend NLCD 177 to increase the penalty -- What penalty? I thought that one must be specific -- to increase penalty units or we delete “to increase” and use the word ‘enhance' -- to enhance it.
    Mr. Speaker, I support the motion, but that would be taken care of when we get to the Consideration Stage.
    Ms. Christine Churcher (NPP - Cape Coast) 2:40 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, if the object of this Bill is to ensure that stiffer punishment is given to those who are not authorized to wear police uniforms but they wear them, then I am all for it, except that I have a problem with ¢6 million and ¢24 million.
    Indeed, military uniforms or police uniforms are not fashionable attire. People do not go buying them because they want to take them to church or to weddings. Anybody who goes to get a military uniform or security service uniform from somewhere must have intentions which we should condemn, in all sincerity.

    Mr. Speaker, we are talking about tourism, we are talking about attracting more people to come and invest, et cetera. We need maximum security and protection in this country. For instance, when you are going to Cape Coast in the night, you will see road-blocks and you see people in uniform, et cetera. Meanwhile, you are not even sure who these people are.

    Some of them do not look like policemen, some of them do not look like security personnel but today, I am being told that there are many in this country who are neither policemen nor soldiers or do not even belong to the security services but have the fashion of wearing these uniforms.

    Mr. Speaker, what is six million cedis to an armed robber? These people take life, these people make us lose our sleep and these people make this country ungovernable. I think that when we are looking at the punishment, because we are talking about stricter measures, we should look at something higher than twenty-four million cedis or six million cedis.

    Mr. Speaker, many of the market women in my own constituency have talked about the ordeal that they go through when they are going to Techiman, for instance. They have been robbed many times, and incidentally some of them have been stripped naked and all these people are armed and they are in uniform. Mr. speaker, because we are celebrating our 50th anniversary we need to plug the holes, we need to make sure that all those who are making this country unattractive are dealt with.

    It is in the light of this that I do not only support this Bill but ask that we look at the punishment that will be given them. I think that asking them to pay six million or twenty-four million is nothing to write home about. Otherwise, this is a very good Bill and must be embraced.
    Mr. A. O. Aidooh (NPP -- Tema West) 2:40 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I support the Bill. I just want to say that in the Decree, the Armed Forces is defined to include the Police, the Prison Service and other services. What I want to say is that this Decree needs to be completely reviewed. Mr. Speaker, if you look at the Decree, Restriction on the Use of Military Uniforms and Equipment (Amendment) Bill, it says that it is an offence to use military uniforms.
    Mr. Speaker, what we are saying is that that uniform must be a military uniform. But I think that what we intend to do is not that people should not wear actual military uniforms, but even uniforms in the like of that should not be worn by civilians. If you say I should not wear military, uniform and I wear a uniform that does not belong to the military, can I wear the uniform? That is the issue. And so we must at the earliest opportunity amend this law completely so that civilians or unauthorized persons cannot only wear military uniforms but also cannot wear uniforms in the like of those uniforms.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:40 p.m.
    Hon. Deputy Majority Leader, what do you mean by ‘look like'; who is going to decide?
    Mr. A. O. Aidooh 2:40 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the courts will decide. Mr. Speaker, it is important that we close this gap, otherwise, people will wear uniforms -- [Interruption.]
    Mr. Adjaho 2:40 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I hear the hon. Deputy Majority Leader referring to the position of the Armed Forces. If that is true, then there is a problem vis-a-vis the Constitution of the Republic of Ghana. In the Constitution of Ghana, we have the Ghana Armed Forces being separate. So an Act of Parliament cannot offer a new definition which is different from what is in the Constitution. If that is the Military, I do not have a problem, but if it is the definition of “Ghana Armed Forces” then there is a problem. But if it is the definition of “military” -- [Interruption.]
    Mr. A. O. Aidooh 2:40 p.m.
    It is the definition of “military”. “Military” shall be considered as relating to all or any of the Armed Forces, the Police Service and the Prisons Service.
    Deputy Minister for Defence (Mr. William O. Boafo): Mr. Speaker, this is a very laudable Bill before the House because nowadays you could see that the military is not confined to the barracks and the war-field alone. Now, we find them working together with the police in joint operations and also in civil works and the training of cadets of other institutions. Mr. Speaker, it is very good that we enhance the punishment or sanction against abuse of military uniforms, especially the Armed Forces uniform.
    Mr. Speaker, there is also the need for
    us to get the public educated as to the type of uniforms being worn by these security agencies. And so far as the military is concerned, it is clear that nowadays they do not put on the green green uniforms; they now put on the camouflage.
    But recently, we realized that the police changed their uniform. It may not be known to the public at large the type of uniform that the police are putting on now. So if we want this very law to be very effective for people to inform the relevant authorities as to their abuse, we need to educate the public about the type of uniforms which are being worn by the police and the security agencies.
    Mr. Speaker, I would like to add my voice to the assertion that for somebody to decide to put on military uniform, the person must have some mischief or a hidden agenda, and that the current punishment is not stiff enough to deter such persons who are bent upon such abuses. At the least opportunity that this House may have, as is being advocated or canvassed by the Deputy Majority Leader, we should not only look at the range, or the definition, or the scope of military uniforms, or who are involved in this particular operation, but we should also consider further enhancement of the sanctions so that the deterrent effect of the sanctions will achieve its objective.
    Alhaji Collins Dauda (NDC -- Asutifi South) 2:40 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I also rise to support this very important Bill. Mr. Speaker, I support it because it is proposing a punishment that is stiff, that will deter people who would want to go into it. But Mr. Speaker, it is important also to reflect on why and where these uniforms come from. Where do these criminals get the uniforms? It is on this note that I will make a call to the Minister for National Security to take a critical look
    at the processes of recruiting people into these security agencies.
    Mr. Speaker, it may not be absolutely true that these uniforms are gotten from the security agencies. It is possible that some may be imported from outside Ghana into the country. But even if they are imported into the country or they are gotten from outside the country, certainly, there is a security agency that is in place to ensure that the right things are brought into the country. I am talking about the Customs, Excise and Preventive Service.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
    You do not agree with him?
    Alhaji Boniface 2:50 p.m.
    No, I do not agree with him. He is a zongo man -- [Inter- ruption.]
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
    I think you should not refer to him as -- He is the hon. Member for Asutifi South. But that you do not agree with him is not a point of
    order. Are you rising on a point of order?
    Alhaji Boniface 2:50 p.m.
    I am on a point of order.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
    So what is your point, hon. Minister?
    Alhaji Boniface 2:50 p.m.
    Yes, he was talking about recruiting people with doubtful character.
    Mr. A. O. Aidooh 2:50 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, he said “doubtful characters”; he did not say “character”.
    Alhaji Boniface 2:50 p.m.
    Yes, characters. And I do not know what types of characters he is talking about.
    Secondly, the point is that the people who are usually recruited go through a thorough screening. And for every rule, at least, you have an exception. So concluding that they have doubtful characters, I do not know which types of characters he is talking about.
    Meanwhile, Mr. Speaker, I have not finished and he is on his feet. The most important thing he should have told us is an aggressive education which he wants to now tell us. This is because when we were kids, we were told that if a State Transport bus hit you, it is your parents who had to wash the vehicle and pacify it. So we stayed far away from the omnibus or even from the state transport. I believe if he had said that so that there will be an aggressive education to the people, then they will know what type of dresses to wear. This is because somebody takes joy in wearing the military uniform, but not of doubtful characters.
    Alhaji Dauda 2:50 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, a couple of minutes ago I met with him in the lobby and he was expressing concern about
    rose
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
    Hon. Kyei- Mensah-Bonsu, what is your problem?
    Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:50 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, my problem is that I thought that this should be taken on the a lighter side but the words used by my hon. Colleague are really not parliamentary. When he says that -- [Interruption.]
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
    Hon. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu, you are out of order. You are out of order.
    Hon. Minister, please go ahead.
    Alhaji Boniface 2:50 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I take exception to that. He knows that I am one of the men within his group who fast throughout; and I never complain of hunger. So I would be surprised for him to tell me that I was complaining of hunger.
    Alhaji Dauda 2:50 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I have not concluded.
    rose
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
    Hon. Member for Ahafo Ano South, are you on a point of order?
    Mr. Manu 2:50 p.m.
    Yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is past three o'clock and we are therefore having double Sitting, but no provision has been made for lunch. So if the hon. Member even said he was hungry, he was right to have said so. [Laughter.]
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
    He is right because you are hungry too. Is that not it?
    Mr. Manu 2:50 p.m.
    I am also hungry, and everybody here is hungry -- [Laughter.]
    Mr. J. B. Aidoo 2:50 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, just a very brief comment on the Bill --[Inter- ruption.]
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
    The hon. Member has not finished yet. I will allow you that brief comment; just hold on.
    Alhaji Dauda 2:50 p.m.
    In conclusion, therefore, I will urge all hon. Members to support this motion including those who are very, very hungry and would want to eat.
    Mr. Joseph Boahen Aidoo (NPP -- Amenfi East) 2:50 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the object of the Bill, I believe, is not just about the problem of criminals. I also believe that it is to address an emerging problem related to the private security agencies we have in this country.
    Mr. Speaker, we have a number of private security agencies operating now. And the type of uniform they are using is not different from what our military are using. Mr. Speaker, some of them are using uniforms that are just like that of the Air Force. And it is very difficult to distinguish between these private security people and our own state military people. So I believe this Bill is intended to actually address some of these problems so that we can clearly, in public, know our state military personnel as against private security personnel and other people who are using such uniforms.
    Mr. Speaker, it is with this, that I am also supporting the motion on the floor.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
    Hon. Minister for National Security, do you have any reaction?
    Mr. Francis Poku 2:50 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I do appreciate the helpful comments that have
    been made in the House. All these matters, I believe, will be taken into consideration in the working of the current law and any amendment you may approve in this House.
    But I am pleased to observe that the parent law covers matters of importation and licensing of military uniforms and equipment. The security personnel at the various points of entry have been apprised of these provisions of the law. But I am very pleased that many helpful comments have been made in the House which I do appreciate.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
    Thank you very much, hon. Minister.
    Question put and motion agreed to.
    The Restriction on Use of Military Uniforms and Equipment (Amendment) Bill was accordingly read a Second time.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 2:50 p.m.
    Now we move on to item 25.
    Suspension of Standing Order 128 (1)
    Mr. Francis Poku 2:50 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 128 (1) which require that when a Bill has been read a Second time, it shall pass through a Consideration Stage which shall not be taken until at least 48 hours have elapsed, the Consideration Stage of the Restriction on Use of Military Uniforms and Equipment (Amendment) Bill may be taken today.
    Alhaji Sumani Abukari 2:50 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to second the motion.
    Question put and motion agreed to.
    Resolved accordingly.
    BILLS -- CONSIDERATION 2:50 p.m.

    STAGE 2:50 p.m.

    Chairman of the Committee (Mr. E. A. Agyepong) 2:50 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, the clause, line 2, delete “500” and substitute “50” and in line 3, delete “2000” and substitute “200”. The clause will read:
    “A person who contravenes a provision of this Decree commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine of not less than 50 penalty units and not exceeding 200 penalty units or a term of imprisonment of not less than three months and not exceeding three months or to both fine and imprisonment.”
    Alhaji Sumani Abukari 3 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, this is one subclause amendment. I get up to support the amendment as moved by the Chairman and to say that without much ado we should all unanimously accept the amendment.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr. Chireh 3 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I will urge that they accept a further amendment to what he read. I beg to move, the clause, line 4, delete all the words after “both”. Both refers to the “fine” and “imprisonment”. If hon. Members agree, I further amend.
    Alhaji Abukari 3 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think this is a good amendment; I think “both” is enough.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3 p.m.


    think that is a good amendment.

    Question put and amendment agreed to.

    The clause as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr. E. A. Agyepong 3 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, from what transpired on the floor of the House we would like to move an amendment to section 5, if the House will agree.
    Mr. Adjaho 3 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, we want to move an amendment before we come to that. But let us listen to his amendment first.
    Mr. E. A. Agyepong 3 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, in clause (5) (1) (a), it says:
    “Armed Forces includes the Police and the Prisons Service.”
    And then in clause (5) (b), it talks about military -- “Military shall be construed as relating to all or any of the Armed Forces, the Police, and the Prisons Services.” And we would like now to add, “Immigration, Customs, Excise and Preventive Service (CEPS) and Fire Service. That is our amendment, Mr. Speaker. At the end of “Prisons Service”, we add “Immigration, CEPS and Fire Service”. Mr. Speaker, I beg to move.
    Mr. Adjaho 3 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think that the spirit behind the amendment is good except that there is a small constitutional problem. The Constitution is clear as to what we mean by Ghana Armed Forces -- [Interruption] -- So I expect him to delete that definition of the Ghana Armed Forces to include Police and Prisons Service. So that leg of the amendment, we should delete that. Then the second component, there is no problem with it;
    that one is correct.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3 p.m.
    Still you are on the floor, hon. Doe Adjaho.
    Mr. Adjaho 3 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I was wondering whether I should move it or we should deal with this before I come in. Mr. Speaker, I am further amending his amendment by deleting the definition that sought to define the Ghana Armed Forces to include the Police Service and the Prisons Service; because if you look at the Constitution you know what the Ghana Armed Forces is. But the other aspect of his amendment is acceptable by the definition offered under “military” which includes those other services that have been added.
    Mr. A. O. Aidooh 3 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I had a word with my hon. Colleague, but I have just also looked at the Constitution that we all refer to. I do not see anything wrong with the deletion of the Armed Forces in the Bill. The Constitution defines the
    Ghana Armed Forces as follows:
    “There shall be the Armed Forces of Ghana which shall consist of the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force and such other Services for which provision is made by Parliament.”
    So it is not conclusive that the Armed Forces consist of the Army, Air Force and Navy. But Mr. Speaker, I have no objection against deleting the “Armed Forces”, because like he has already said, this Decree deals with the “military”, and the “military” is defined in section 5(b). So we can have the “Armed Forces” taken off, define the military to include all those services that the Minister wants to add.
    Mr. E. A. Agyepong 3 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, our amendment does not cover (a); we left (a) as it is in the Decree. Our amendment is on (b) where “military” is defined and we are asking that to the “military” we add “CEPS, Immigration and Fire Service”. Therefore, I do not know why he is bringing even (a) in. I did not move for the amendment of (a).
    Mr. Yieleh Chireh 3 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I do not know whether we are doing the right thing. The Bill I have has only one clause and -- [Interruption] -- I have only one clause in it. Now, if we are moving an amendment to that clause, I think that we should take a vote on it. If there is another one which is amending the Decree which they are referring to, we do not have that because the Decree that they are talking about, that should be the Interpretation section of that Decree. Then we are going to talk about another subclause or another clause that now defines -- But let us take a decision on the main thing and then add that one.
    Mr. Adjaho 3:10 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. Member who spoke last is out of order. We have taken a decision on the main amendment. You have put the Question; we have taken a decision on that one. But we realize that there is some mischief which must be cured in the parent legislation. At the Consideration Stage, once we are amending a Bill the parent Bill itself comes into issue, to make sure that the amendment that we are making is consistent with the Constitution of the Republic of Ghana.
    That is why the Chairman of the Committee was right in trying to take the view, the sentiments of the House, in adding other security agencies in the definition of ‘military', which is absolutely correct. And if what he is saying is that his amendment only relates to adding CEPS, the Fire Service and Immigration Service to the other services under the definition of military, then I suggest that you put the Question on that one. Then after that if there is any other amendment by any other person, the person can move it.
    Mr. H. Iddrisu 3:10 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think that the earlier proposition of the Chairman was right and appropriate. Except that, having listened to the Deputy Majority Leader, we now must make one or two amendments. Now, clause 5 (a) in the Decree would have to be reviewed and I propose that the Armed Forces there be defined properly to reflect article 210 of the Constitution, where Armed Forces would be the Navy and others. Then we take away prison and police and go and add to the definition of military under clause 5(b); that is where we will be defining the military.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
    Hon. Members, let us make some progress. I believe what the Chairman and I believe is also with all of you; your concern is that 5 (b) be amended which is an easy option and has no complication; that is “the
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.


    military shall be construed as relating to all and any of the Armed Forces, the Police Service, the Prisons Service, Immigration Service, Customs, Excise and Preventive Service and Fire Service”.

    This is what is being proposed; that is, the inclusion of Immigration, CEPS and Fire Service, and this is before you. And I am putting the Question. It has been moved and supported.

    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
    Now, we move on. If there is any other amendment that anybody is proposing let us hear that and we can consider that. Indeed, hon. Doe Adjaho has talked about the Interpretation in this Decree, that is 5 (a). I am not too sure what you are proposing, but let us all hear you.
    Mr. Adjaho 3:10 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that clause 5 (a) be deleted from the parent Bill.
    Mr. Speaker, what I am saying is that the definition offered there runs counter to the Constitution. The point being made here is that when we talk about the Ghana Armed Forces, we know the components of the Ghana Armed Forces which cannot be extended. For example, you can decide tomorrow to create the Border Guards Unit but at the end of the day it would be placed under the Ghana Armed Forces Council as a unit. But not bringing any other service under the definition of the Ghana Armed Forces --
    The Constitution talks about any other service that may be created but those services that are created under the Ghana Armed Forces must be located within the Ghana Armed Forces Council, as a unit. And I am saying that that definition which is there, trying to define the “Ghana Armed Forces” to include the Police and the Prisons services is not in order and therefore should be deleted.
    In fact, our emphasis in this Bill is the military uniform and once we have brought those other uniforms of the other services on board by the last amendment by the Chairman, it takes care of those uniforms of all the other security agencies; and that solves the problem. But if you try to give the definition of the Ghana Armed Forces to include the Prisons Service, which has its own council, and the Police Service which has its own council, it is a problem.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
    That is the proposed amendment to clause 5 of the NLCD 177 for your consideration.
    Alhaji Malik Al-Hassan Yakubu 3:10 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think hon. Doe Adjaho has made a point. When in the Constitution other services are added, as was read by the hon. Deputy Majority Leader, they are restricting that through the Armed Forces. And there they have said, “and other services as Parliament will enact”. The police cannot be enacted by Parliament now. It is already there in the Constitution so that could not include the other services that the Constitution was stipulating. So I think that we should avoid any definition which will be roping in something which has already been defined in the Constitution. So I think that the point that he is making is appropriate and we should avoid constitutional conflicts, by agreeing with it.
    Mr. A. O. Aidooh 3:10 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think the amendment does not do any harm to the Bill as it is. In fact, you may put the Question.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
    Chairman, are you all right with that?
    Mr. E.A. Agyepong 3:10 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think I did not hear what the Deputy Minority Leader said. Did he say we should delete the Police and the Prison,
    or delete the whole of (a)?
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
    That is
    the Interpretation, which reads: “In this Decree Armed Forces include the Police and the Prison services”. Just as has been canvassed on the floor, the definition of the Armed Forces is already in the 1992 Constitution and for that matter this interpretation violates or it is repugnant to the Constitution itself; and for that matter if we delete it completely it serves a useful purpose.
    Mr. E.A. Agyepong 3:10 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, that is agreeable.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
    That should bring us to the end of the consideration -- [Interruption.]
    Mr. Haruna Iddrisu 3:10 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the Long Title --
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3:10 p.m.
    Thank you very much but before then let us -- [Interruption.]
    Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:10 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the hon. Deputy Majority Leader was canvassing a very serious point regarding specifying what military uniforms are. The opinion he was canvassing was that -- [Interruption] -- the Deputy Majority Leader, not Deputy Minority Leader; he cannot be Minority Leader. [Laughter.]
    Mr. Speaker, the idea he was canvassing was that if a person was caught in a uniform which was very similar to a police uniform, it is not the police uniform but the person is using it to intimidate people like the hon. Sumani Abukari narrated -- Mr. Speaker, if it is found out that those uniforms are not military uniforms but they look alike, what happens?
    I thought that we should really look at this matter very critically, otherwise the lawyers would have a field day in court; that this is not a military uniform; it looks like it but it is not a military uniform. And for that reason the person who was caught could be set free. Mr. Speaker, I believe it is something that we should have a second look at. The Second Deputy Speaker (Alhaji M. A. Yakubu) is urging me to propose an amendment; unfortunately I do not have the Parent Act before me so I am unable to do that but I thought that we should advert our minds to that matter.
    Alhaji M. A. Yakubu 3:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think that the mischief that we are trying to cure by this Bill would be fully met if we looked at the point that he is raising because even in the case of assault if you use even a toy gun unknown to the person who is the target of your assault, it is still an assault notwithstanding that in actual fact it was a toy gun.

    So if somebody uses uniform that is similar to the kind of uniform we are talking about, although not the same, the effect will still be felt. So I think that his problem is that he does not have immediate wording for an amendment but I think that we should quickly confer, include that kind of semblance of uniform that could still produce the same effect. I think it is very important that we do that in order to solve the problem.
    Mr. Adjaho 3:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think that the intention behind the proposal from the Chief Whip of the Majority is all right. But I think that we cannot do the amendment now; maybe tomorrow we may have to pass through a Second Consideration Stage. The reason why I say that is that there is another clause in the parent Act which is only talking
    Mr. Adjaho 3:20 p.m.


    about buying and selling and that Act was passed, for example, at the time when we had to get Import Licence.

    Now we do not get Import Licence; so if somebody imports the military uniform he has not committed any offence because he will say that they have not granted him Import Licence and that is also another thing. And there is need for us to add importation of those uniforms too. I think that we have to look at this thing and clean all so that tomorrow morning we pass through a Second Consideration Stage and make sure that we are doing the right thing.

    Mr. Speaker, that is my suggestion. This can be done first thing tomorrow morning. Your proposal, the uniform that looks like military uniform and then the fact of the importation, we may add “buy, sell, import” so that it covers that other aspect; because these days one does not need Import Licence to import things into Ghana, but at the time that the Decree was passed one had to get Import Licence to have those things imported.
    Mr. A. O. Aidooh 3:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think we can do this now. We can amend section 2 to read:
    “No person shall import, possess, buy or sell -- that will cover these things -- any military uniform, equipment, accoutrements or items of similar nature unless he is authorized in that behalf by the
    NLC.”
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
    Hon. Deputy Majority Leader, are you not creating a problem, talking about “similar”? It becomes very complicated there. It is talking about “similar”; similar is odd.
    Mr. E. A. Agyepong 3:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, at the committee meeting we looked at it but
    the Bill that was before us was about the pecuniary rates that prevailed in the NLC Decree. This is a tall order. If you want to look at it, as the Minister said, they have to go back and look at it properly before bringing it. My hon. Friend, Mr. Adjaho mentioned a very important element -- licensing and importation. They put all into it. We cannot stand here now and amend all these things and believe to be doing any good work.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
    Very well. Hon. Members, as I said, that will bring us to the end of the Consideration Stage of this Bill.
    The Long Title --
    Mr. H. Iddrisu 3:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I want to propose an amendment to the Long Title.
    Mr. Speaker, I think it is important we bear in mind that in considering this matter we have had to suspend our Standing Orders and that makes it important that we are able to input into the process. Mr. Speaker, if you take the Long Title, the word “increase” in my view should be deleted and substituted with “enhance” -- enhance the penalty. If you say ‘increase' penalty, unless of course you want to maintain the “increase the penalty” then we must necessarily add the units.
    But if you go to the units you are still talking about terms of imprisonment; so we should delete “increase” and sub- stitute it with “enhance”. I so move.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
    Hon. Members, I believe that is not a very harmful amendment. So we will all agree with it.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    The Long Title as amended ordered to
    stand part of the Bill.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
    Hon. Members, that brings us to the end of the Consideration Stage of the Bill. Hon. Members, are we continuing? Let us continue.
    Suspension of Standing Order 131 (1)
    Minister for National Security (Mr. Francis Kwaku Poku) 3:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, that notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 131 (1) which require that when a Bill has passed through the Consideration Stage, the Third Reading thereof shall not be taken until at least twenty-four hours have elapsed, the motion for the Third Reading of the Restriction on Use of Military Uniforms and Equipment (Amendment) Bill may be moved today.
    Alhaji Sumani Abukari 3:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to second the motion.
    Question put and motion agreed to.
    Resolved accordingly.
    BILLS -- THIRD READING 3:20 p.m.

    Mr. A. O. Aidooh 3:20 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, that will bring us to the end of proceedings
    except that we have to go into Committee of the Whole and look at the
    GETFund. So Mr. Speaker, you may adjourn formal Sitting at this stage.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 3:20 p.m.
    Hon. Members, I will say that the House is adjourned till tomorrow, 10 o'clock
    before noon formally; and therefore we stay here to consider the GETFund.
    ADJOURNMENT 3:20 p.m.