Debates of 15 Oct 2008

MR. FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:15 a.m.
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:15 a.m.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:15 a.m.
Order! Order! Hon. Members, we have Votes and Proceedings of yesterday, Tuesday, 14th October, 2008. Any corrections to be made? Pages 1, 2….17. [No correction was made.]
Hon. Members, there being no corrections in the Votes and Proceedings, it will be assumed that it is a true reflection of what took place on Tuesday, 14 th October 2008.

We now move on to the other items for today. Hon. Members, we have two Questions to be answered and the first one is standing in the name of hon. Joe Gidisu, Member of Parliament for Central Tongu. I believe the hon. Minister is here to Answer our Questions?
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 10:15 a.m.
MINISTRY OF LOCAL 10:15 a.m.
GOVERNMENT, RURAL 10:15 a.m.
DEVELOPMENT AND 10:15 a.m.
ENVIRONMENT 10:15 a.m.
Mr. Joe Gidisu 10:15 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would want to find out from the hon. Minister, what are the sources of funding the Programme? The hon. Minister has just mentioned the release from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning, is that the only source of funding the Programme?
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:15 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, from
the nature of the hon. Member's Question, he wanted to know how much had been
spent so far. I will give the information he requires. The Dutch Government assists but so far, releases from the Dutch Government totals GH¢7,998,672. The rest is from Government of Ghana.
Mr. Joe Gidisu 10:15 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the
hon. Minister noted in the second part of his Answer that 100,300 schools are being captured for the third quarter. I would like to know, from how many schools are these pupils being drawn?
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:15 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, fortunately he corrected himself. First, he started by saying 100,000 schools; the number is 100,000 pupils.
Mr. Speaker, these days, we are not using number of schools because calculation as to releases is based on number of pupils, so we have changed over from schools to number of pupils and that is why we are quoting 100,300 pupils.
What the Programme has realized is that if you select schools, for example A, B, C or D, and you are doing the calculation based on the number of pupils, before you are aware, the number would have doubled. Therefore, what we are doing now is that we are giving the allocation to the districts as to the number of pupils and then the districts will decide which schools, depending on the number of pupils they have had, should be selected for the Programme.
So we are not even going to involve ourselves in the selection of the specific schools but this will be done at the district level based on the allocation of pupils which have been given to that district. And the allocation formula is going to take account of what is in the system so far so as to address any imbalances.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:15 a.m.
Hon.
Gidisu, how many questions do you want to ask again? I suppose you have exhausted your supplementation questions?
Mr. Joe Gidisu 10:15 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the last
question.
Mr. Speaker, I do not know whether the release that the hon. Minister talked about that it came from the Ministry yesterday, was part of the arrears or the projected budget for the fourth quarter. If that is so, what is the projected budget for the fourth quarter that he is talking about which is going to cater for the 100,300 pupils?
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:25 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I hope the hon. Member will have to come properly if he wants a statement on the School Feeding Programme. He asked about how much has been spent so far, now he wants me to go into projected budget. And the Answer I gave, first I said, as at September, then I added the release for October. I think I have answered the Question. If he wants the projected budget, I have the figures here but that is not the Question which was posed to me.
Mr. Joe Gidisu 10:25 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that for this quarter, they were going to add 100,300 pupils to the programme and this could not have come out without working out a budget. And I want to find out from him, what is the budget when the first month of the last quarter is almost getting to an end?
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:25 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the School Feeding Programme spends forty Ghana pesewas (40 Gp) per child per day. Perhaps the hon. Member, now that we have given the number we are going to add, that is 100,300, will do us a favour by doing some mathematics or arithmetic if he wants that projection. But as I am saying, we have done the projection but that was the Question he asked. But the

projection has been done and he could take 100,300 and multiply by 40 Gp per day, times the number of school days.
Mr. A. K. Agbesi 10:25 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, this School Feeding Programme is being funded by State money. There are pupils who are not in the public system. Article 25 of the Constitution talks about all persons in Ghana having equal opportunity to educational facilities.
I want to know from the hon. Minister whether his Ministry has plans to extend or expand this programme to cover pupils who are not in the public system in view of the fact that it is State money that is being used on this programme.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:25 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I cannot project into the future but I must say that at the appropriate time, all pupils in schools in Ghana will have to benefit because even now, not all pupils in public schools are being catered for. So let us complete that first. But I do not think the School Feeding Programme is the only programme where pupils or students in private schools are being discriminated against. What about the SSNIT Loan Scheme?
Mr. E. T. Mensah 10:25 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
want to know from the hon. Minister the number of private schools in the country which qualify to benefit from the School Feeding Programme, and how many have so far benefited from the said programme.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Hon. Minister, are you disposed to answer this question? It appears to me to be at a different angle altogether but if you have the facts, if you may wish to answer that, please do so.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:25 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, as I
said all these are off the Question which was asked but I want to supply the infor-
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Hon. Member for Ningo/Prampram, are you rising on a point of order? The hon. Minister is in the process of answering the question and I can see you are standing. What is your problem?
Mr. E. T. Mensah 10:25 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the issue is that the pupils who benefit are in schools. So, the hon. Minister should let us know the number of pupils -
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Hon. Member, I thought I heard you ask how many schools are benefiting.
Mr. E. T. Mensah 10:25 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am reframing the question.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Hon. Member, let the hon. Minister answer the first one, and I will allow you to ask a follow-up question.
Yes, hon. Minister, continue.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:25 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, currently, the number of schools in 2008 - when we do the addition - will go up to 1,557 but the student population will also go to 560,000; now, we have 477,714.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Hon. Member for Ningo/Prampram, does that satisfy you? The hon. Minister has answered in terms of schools and then gone to the number of pupils as well. Unless you have some other questions that you want him to answer.
Mr. E. T. Mensah 10:25 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, some other follow-up questions.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Go ahead, I would allow you.
Mr. E. T. Mensah 10:25 a.m.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I want to find out from
the hon. Minister -- the report that he has had from the schools which are at the moment benefiting -- whether it is something anybody can write home about. The quality of food which is given out to the pupils leaves a lot to be desired, as far as those of us who have gone round to see what is going on are concerned. I want to know from him whether he has been informed about the quality of food. It is not the matter of just feeding pupils.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Hon. Member for Ningo/Prampram, I am not too sure whether I follow your question. Are you now going into details about the calories and number and kind of nutrients going into it? Is that what you want to find out?
Mr. E. T. Mensah 10:25 a.m.
No, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, you and I are aware that it is very easy to see good food and bad food. One does not need to check out the calories and what have you. The information that we have from credible sources - the Local Government Select Committee went round some of the District Assemblies and one of the questions that we asked wherever we went to, was about the quality of food, and the reports that we had was not good.
That is why I want to know from him, as the hon. Minister, whether the said schools have informed him about the progress or the status of the food that is given out to our children in the schools.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Very well. Hon. Minister, could you throw a little more light on that.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:25 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would wish that we follow our procedures. A specific Question has been asked about the amount which has been spent so far and then what our programme for expansion is. The question is very clear. If the hon. Member wants a Statement on the School Feeding Programme and certain areas to be handled, he should come properly because we have reports.
Even last week or last two weeks, the Co-ordinator and all his three deputies toured the nation, went to some schools and so on and their reports are with the Ministry now.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Hon. Minister, you need not tell us much about our procedure here. I believe the hon. Member believes that you are on top of your Ministry. And I also believe so but he wants to tap into your knowledge. According to him, a Select Committee of this House had gone round and they have made comments on certain relevant issues concerning the School Feeding Programme.
Now, once you are here, he wants you to take advantage of that to talk about the quality of the food and so forth. Unless of course, you want to ask for more time and of course, you want him to come properly that is another matter. But if you can, could you answer his question.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:35 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, it is not a question of I cannot answer it but I do not think it will be appropriate for me to answer it because -- [Interruption.]
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Are you
in a position to answer it? If you are, the Chair is asking you that if you have the information, let him have it. Let him have it because the Chair is directing.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:35 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
have information on the field, reports have been submitted, so if hon. Members would want to know details about what is on the field, the Ministry will be prepared to submit that.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Hon.
Minister, the Chair is asking you, do you have the information which I believe you do; could you tell him a little about it for the benefit of the House?
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:35 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, we
have the information. School to school, caterer to caterer, some are doing well, there are problems in other places. But I do not think that is an appropriate answer enough if I say some are doing well. But the general statement as to quality and so on, I do not know where the hon. Member had this information.
Mr. E. T. Mensah 10:35 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, your
Select Committee on Local Government and Rural Development went round some of the District Assemblies - we went to Amasaman, we went to Abokobi, we went to Tema Metropolitan Assembly and one of the issues which came up for discussion was the School Feeding Programme. The reports that we had from the District Directors, as to quality and other things, I did not even want to ask because what I asked about concerns School Feeding Programme.
We want to know what is in the programme. I do not think that is an extraneous issue. And that was why we felt that having met him, the Committee would meet him as that hon. Minister for Local Government and Rural Develop- ment. But once the issue is being discussed

here, I felt that if the Chair will indulge me, I would pose the question and that is why I put the question.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:35 a.m.
I know,
hon. E. T. Mensah, but I thought you had some other question you want to ask. Are you all right or you do not want to ask any more questions?
Mr. E. T. Mensah 10:35 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, since
the Minister does not want to answer some of these questions I will file my question myself under a certificate of urgency for him to come and answer.
rose
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Very well. Yes, hon. Member for North Tongu?
Mr. C. S. Hodogbey 10:35 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to know from the hon. Minister, having allocated this kind of money for feeding school children, what is the frequency of cooking for the children - because there is a school in my area, the whole of 2008 only 14 times they have cooked for the pupils. So I would like to know the frequency this amount is supposed to cover.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Hon.
Member, I honestly am not sure about the question you are asking. You want to ask the frequency of cooking, frequency of money coming to the district or what?
Mr. Hodogbey 10:35 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would
like to know whether the cooking for the kids is supposed to be daily or weekly, or monthly - because there is a school in my area, the whole of 2008, only 14 times they have cooked for the kids, that is why I want to know.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Very well, hon. Minister?
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:35 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, for any participating school, pupils are to be fed once a day for every school-going day. If there is a caterer or a cook who does not do it the report should be made by the head of the school to the District Chief Executive and such caterer would not be paid for the days she did not do any cooking and then also sanctions would be brought against such caterer and sometimes even by removing him or her.
That is why when the question about the quality of the food came up, I said he should come properly because a report before me talks about a caterer who has been changed by one of the participating schools in a particular district in the Volta Region. So we have all these reports, but anybody who does not do any cooking should not be paid.
We release the money through the Controller and Accountant-General to the participating District Assemblies and they should not pay anybody who did not cook for a particular day. That is the rule.
Mr. Hodogbey 10:35 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, having said that that you release the money, I would like to know, how often do you perform oversight responsibility as regards the use of this money?
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Hon. Member, I had thought it was obvious, the implications were obvious that they release the money and the District Assemblies are supposed to pay as and when money is available to cover the days that the caterer might have cooked.
In terms of supervision, I am wondering what exactly you are asking. What is your question so that I can let him answer it?
Mr. Hodogbey 10:35 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, he said they release the moneys through the District Assemblies. So I am asking his Ministry, as far as oversight responsi-bility
is concerned, how often do they perform that oversight responsibility?
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:35 a.m.
I am not too sure about the question but if the hon. Minister may be in a position to answer.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:35 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I wish to tell the hon. Member that every District Assembly has an internal auditor and payments to be done would have to pass through a process. So oversight responsibility does not necessarily mean the Minister should be hopping from Assembly to Assembly. Once we have put the structures in place, we get responses from these Assemblies.
Also at the end of the year, there is external audit and areas where monies were paid but did not get to the caterer if there are any, or areas where no cooking was done but the caterer, was paid, it is brought up by the auditing process.
Mr. A. W. G. Abayateye 10:35 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister, and - I want to be specific - Dangme East District has almost 102 schools. The feeding is done in two, totalling about 342 pupils, but the population is almost 15,000 pupils. With the figures the hon. Minister has given now, from 2006 to the end of the third quarter, a total of 476,083 pupils, if you add the 100 to the 300 it comes to this.
I would like to know how it came about - because this area is a highly populated area but you could see that in Kumasi, Oforikrom constituency, more than five schools are benefiting in one consti- tuency, but in the whole district only two schools. So how come about that such a great discrepancy?
I do not know whether you get my question. My question is this, you are talking of pupils, and I am saying that the concentration of the pupils is based in a particular region, why so?
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:45 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Hon. Minister, I do remember that the Member for Jirapa, hon. Salia indeed asked that Question and it was discussed in detail; and a Statement was also made on it. I am not too sure whether the hon. Member was in the House. But maybe, he was not and if there is a little light you could throw on it for him to benefit, I think you should do so.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:45 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, that is why I said in my answer earlier on that now we are restructuring it and we are going to base it on population and allocations will be made to districts where they do not have enough. And the District Chief Executives (DCEs) would be told as to what number of pupils are going to benefit in their areas and they would determine which schools they would have to select so as to make up for that number and this is the restructuring we are doing.
We do not want to base it on number of schools again. But sometimes hon. Members also do not consider - even if you are looking at the national student population and the concentration of schools, we would have to go further. But that is not the area we are looking at now.
Court Building at Techiman (Construction)
Q. 1566. Mr. Alex Kyeremeh asked the hon. Minister for Local Government, Rural Development and Environment why
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:45 a.m.


the construction of a court building started by the Assembly eight years ago had been abandoned.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:45 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, in- formation available is that the Techiman Municipal Assembly, on 27th January 2000 awarded four (4) contracts which included the construction of the Court building.
The three others were:
Construction of a four-storeyed Administrative Block
Construction of a Guest House; and
Construction of a Community Centre.
Mr. Speaker, these four projects started simultaneously and upon realizing that the finances of the Assembly could not support all the projects, the Assembly at its meeting held from 27th to 28th September, 2000, decided that the construction of the court building be suspended until the other three (3) projects were completed.
Mr. Speaker, the Assembly wrote to the contractor - Yeddras Company Limited through the Regional Consultant, AESL notifying him of the suspension until otherwise directed by the Assembly. As at the time of suspension, the sub-structure had been completed and columns erected.
Mr. Speaker, it is worthy to note that the construction of the Guest House and the Community Centre have been completed while what is left of the four-storeyed Administrative Block, are laying of tiles, fixing of doors and windows and painting and decorations. It is anticipated to be completed by December 2008.
In view of this, Mr. Speaker, a budgetary provision of one hundred thousand Ghana cedis (GH¢100,000.00) has been allocated for the completion of the Court Complex in the Assembly's 2009 budget yet to be
approved.
Mr. Kyeremeh 10:45 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am
not aware of the resolution dated 27th to 28th September, 2000. But I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why the Assembly abandoned the court project only to start new ones in the municipality.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Hon. Member, did you say a new one, or what the hon. Minister said that it would be revisited for continuation; he did not say a new one to be completed or constructed. That is not my understanding.
Mr. Kyeremeh 10:45 a.m.
I would like to find out, why did they abandon that old project only to start new projects in the district because they have already invested in the court building?
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Well, I do not know whether you as a member of the District Assembly would have asked some questions. But if you want him to answer that on behalf of your District Assembly, hon. Minister, can you react to that?
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:45 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, every Member of Parliament is a member of the District Assembly and we have to assist the Assemblies at their meetings in making decisions. So I would expect or would want to believe that the hon. Member has been attending Assembly meetings and to approve projects. So perhaps, he may even be in a better position, if that has been the decision, to tell us, because projects and programmes are supposed to be approved by the Assembly at meetings.
So if there are any such questions and if it is true that a new project has been started which has been tagged as a court building, then why the Assembly approves that, the hon. Member himself should be in a position to tell us.

Perhaps, I am not a specialist but those of us who have at least been involved in one structure or the other, sometimes see that if you abandon a project for quite a number of years you can be advised not to continue with the same project because the foundation and the structure may be weakened.

I am just speculating this; but I am not aware that the Assembly has started a new project and if they have started it, it would have gone through their budget and their programmes. And as I said, we are all, as Members of Parliament, members of our Assemblies and we assist in approving these projects.
Mr. Kyeremeh 10:45 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minister should get me right. I am asking why is it that they have started different projects, not the same court building again. They had money to start different projects instead of completing the old project.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:45 a.m.
I think you have revisited the same issue again. Hon. Member, I will not even allow this question. I believe you should, as a member of your District Assembly, ask the question from the District Assembly, more specifically, your District Chief Executive. Can you ask any other question.
Mr. Kyeremeh 10:45 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I would also like to find out how much has been spent on that court building.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Hon. Minister, he wants to know how much has so far been spent.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:45 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, a project which was suspended in the year 2000; when I was mentioning 2000 I laid emphasis on that, perhaps before even this current Assembly came in. If he wants how much has been spent on it we would need notice.
Mr. Afred K. Agbesi 10:45 a.m.
Mr. Speaker,
Mr. Afred K. Agbesi 10:45 a.m.


there used to be this policy that in a district or any area, until a project is completed, no new one should be started.

I want to know from the hon. Minister whether that policy is still in existence or it has been abandoned.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Hon.
Member, are you sure that that was the policy, that in a district when you begin any project you should not start a new one until that one has been completed?
Mr. Agbesi 10:55 a.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, because if you do not have money to complete a project you do not go and start a new one. That is how that thing used to be but I do not know whether it is still there or not.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:55 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, in
Mr. Agbesi 10:55 a.m.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, the question I asked the hon. Minister is simple and straightforward but the hon. Minister is talking about phone but that is not the question I asked.
Mr. Speaker, I was not on phone but the hon. Minister is talking about my being on phone. I was not on phone. The question I asked is simple. “Do you have such a policy or you do not have?” That is all I asked for.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:55 a.m.
I think your protestation is well noted. If indeed you were not on phone then he observed you wrongly. The hon. Member is saying
he was not on phone.
Mr. Adjei-Darko 10:55 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, it
is unfortunate that no camera captured him. He asked a question and when I was answering he was on his phone so he was waiting for me to finish before he came back with the same question because he was not listening; and that is why I am saying that in 2000, the Assembly decided to award these contracts simultaneously. But the same Assembly in the same year realized that they would have to complete them in succession and the third is to be completed in December this year.
So there is nothing wrong if an Assembly decides that now that we are completing the third one, we are going to take the fourth one. But in any case when the Ministry issues guidelines, they are guidelines; the Assemblies on the ground would have to determine their priorities. We would not tell them not to construct a KVIP or a school building because perhaps, we need a road. It is the Assembly which is to determine the priority and once they have not abandoned the project, and they have programmed it, I do not think - [Interruption] - Eight years? When was the termination done? It was done in the same year before they left office.
The impression is being created that a new Government came and they decided to abandon it but it was done in 2000. That court building was suspended in 2000 when the same group was there. So if it is being continued, please, let the Assembly decide their priorities and then go by what the people demand. But the bottom-line is that the project has not been abandoned. Once they are in the process of completing the third project, the court building which is the first project is going to be tackled.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:55 a.m.
Hon.
Minister, thank you for coming around to Answer Questions from hon. Members. That will be the end of Question time.

We will move on to Commencement of Public Business, Presentation of First Reading of Bills - [Pause].
PAPERS 10:55 a.m.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:55 a.m.
Hon. Members, we now move to the continuation of the Consideration Stage of the National Pension Reform Bill.
BILLS - CONSIDERATION STAGE 10:55 a.m.
  • [Resumption of Consideration from 14/10/08]
    • Mr. Speaker 10:55 a.m.
    Mr. Chairman, are you ready?
    Chairman of the Committee (Nii Adu Daku Mante) 10:55 a.m.
    That is so, Mr. Speaker.
    We will continue from clause 62.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:55 a.m.
    What about clause 36? What has happened to it so far?
    Nii Mante: Mr. Speaker, the consensus is that we should delete the word ‘consensus' from clause 36 (1) (a).
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:55 a.m.
    Is that the consensus among all sides?
    Nii Mante: Mr. Speaker, that is so.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:55 a.m.
    I do remember that the hon. Member for Akim Abuakwa North, you were specific in your opposition to the amendment. I want to hear from you.
    Mr. J. B. D. Adu 10:55 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, yesterday you asked that clause 36 (1) be stepped down. I have not been part of any meeting concerning - [Interruption.]
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:55 a.m.
    I will continue to stand it down then until you can tell me what has been agreed to.
    Clauses 60 and 61 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clause 62 - Age exemption.
    Nii Mante: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 62, subclause (1), line 1, delete “An employee” and insert “A worker”.
    Mr. E. K. D. Adjaho 10:55 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, with the greatest respect this is a major Bill and it is important that this Bill is attended to -
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:55 a.m.
    Hon. Member, you were not here yesterday?
    Mr. Adjaho 10:55 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the fact

    that nobody raised an objection does not prevent me from raising objection at this stage. Mr. Speaker, with the greatest respect -
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 10:55 a.m.
    Hon. Member, I was asking a question of you. Were you here yesterday? Yes or No?
    Mr. Adjaho 10:55 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the point I am raising is that this is a major Bill and there is no quorum for us to transact this business. I sit down here, my ranking member is not here, the deputy ranking is not here and we know why they are not here; how do we then consult them as to what transpired in the committee?
    Mr. Speaker, my raising of an issue of quorum does not depend on whether I was here yesterday or not.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:05 a.m.
    I believe you are a very senior Member of this House. The Chair is only asking you a question. Were you here yesterday? You were here or you were not here? I am asking you a simple question and you do not want to answer, yet you expect me sitting here to listen to you?
    Mr. Adjaho 11:05 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the issue
    I am raising derives its strength from the Standing Orders - I am raising an issue of Standing Orders, and any hon. Member can stand up to raise an issue of quorum, and that is all that I am raising. With the greatest respect, that is what I am raising.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:05 a.m.
    Hon. Member, we do not do things mechanically here. I am only asking you a question, before we even come and Sit here, we meet
    you as leaders and take certain decisions. If you are going against it, that is another matter. But you as a leader, you were part of that meeting, and I am only asking you a question, simple. Were you here or you were not here? And you do not want to answer it. You do not want to respect the Chair; if you do not respect the Chair, other hon. Members will not do that. I am only asking you a question. Were you here or you were not here?
    Mr. Adjaho 11:05 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I was here yesterday but nobody consulted me on this matter.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:05 a.m.
    Did you take part in what was happening?
    Mr. Adjaho 11:05 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I was here but nobody consulted me on this matter. I have answered your question.
    Mr. Okerchiri 11:05 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, yester- day, we agreed at the pre-Sitting meeting that we will take this Bill, not only there but even at Business Committee meetings. We have frowned at this tendency.
    Mr. Speaker, it is trite knowledge to him that in other jurisdictions when it comes to the Consideration Stages of Bills, very few people conduct the business, in many civilised Parliaments, and therefore we have said it time and again at the Business Committee. We have settled that matter that when we are at the Consideration Stage, as much as we may not be very many, business must go on.
    I am amazed. I do not know, the hon. Member who is a leading member of this House and who has taken part in Business Committee deliberations and has given his full blessing to this, when it does suit him -- I do not know where he slept yesterday -- depending on where he slept. It is unfortunate that he just comes in and wants
    to undo what we have settled.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:05 a.m.
    Yes, I want to listen to you now, hon. Doe Adjaho.
    Mr. Adjaho 11:05 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, with the greatest respect once again. Yes, we may go to Business Committee and we may agree that we are going to transact a particular business but that does not throw the Standing Orders of this House into the dustbin. Whatever business that we want to do on the floor of this House is subject to the Standing Orders of this House. And the Standing Orders are very clear as to the number of people that we need in this House to transact this Business.
    Mr. Speaker, I am not against the taking of the Bill. He is the Chief Whip of his side; if he wants this business to be taken he should go and bring his people in to sit down for us to take the business, that is all that I am saying. I am not against the taking of this business. He is the Chief Whip; he is supposed to whip his people to be in this House. So if he has abdicated his responsibility and he comes to sit down here and says he is amazed -- I rather should be amazed.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:05 a.m.
    Hon. Doe Adjaho, so what is your point?
    Mr. Adjaho 11:05 a.m.
    He should bring in the numbers so that we form a quorum to transact this business. But as at now, there is no quorum for us to transact this Business.
    Mr. Hackman Owusu-Agyemang 11:05 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that the Leadership finds it implausible or impracticable to agree on this. Parliament, without any shadow of doubt, is a master
    Mr. Hackman Owusu-Agyemang 11:05 a.m.
    So if we have agreed among the Leadership that we will proceed then I would like to appeal to my good Friend across the street to understand that many a time, we have transacted business in this House without a quorum. He is perfectly right to raise the issue of a quorum and non-quorum in this place.
    A quorum is necessary but if we have come to an understanding that in view of the fact that people are filing their nominations in the constituencies and the political circumstances, the exigencies of the situation in the country demands, we should proceed. And especially as this process has gone through the winnowing processes and we know that traditionally, Consideration Stages are for those who have studied the matter in-depth and go along, I do not see what the hon. Doe Adjaho's problem is. Yesterday, the former Second Deputy Speaker made brilliant contributions to this, so did the Member of Parliament for, I think, Wa.
    So I think that we can agree to go on; of course if he insists, it is his prerogative and the House must decide what we want to do.
    But I would like to appeal to my younger friend there, hon. E. T. Mensah, not to become a bottleneck in the consideration of this particular Bill at this Consideration Stage. There will be a Third Reading, we can also revisit. We can reconsider so I do not see what the problem of the two gentlemen are. Mr. Speaker, hon. Bagbin had gone all the way to Nadowli to file. All of us are going to places, but they must understand; Ningo/Prampram is just here.

    So he must not disagree with me at all. I am pre-empting him by saying that let us move on. We want to move forward so let us go forward.
    Mr. E. T. Mensah 11:05 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, we are not talking at cross-purposes. We are aware that we are masters of our own rules. We are aware that we do consult before coming to the House. But the numbers that we always talk about is that we need reasonable number of people. We do not want absolute quorum, but reasonable number. Looking around, I think that we have to adjourn because this is a very major Bill which deals with workers and then it will also apply to us when we retire. We are not going to be here forever. That is why it is important that we have a certain reasonable number.
    Normally, when we are going to have this kind of situation, the ranking members or at least the deputy ranking members who are privy to the details of the discussions at the committee level are always available. We do not have any of our people here. Mr. Speaker, so I will go with the suggestion that we suspend the discussion and when we have a full House, maybe next week, we take it up again.
    Mr. Speaker, in conclusion, hon.
    Okerchiri, the Majority Whip in his intervention, he just went out there and was talking about “civilised jurisdiction”, is he inferring that this jurisdiction is not civilized -- [Interruption] -- He said: “in all civilized jurisdictions” -- [Interruption] -- “Civilized jurisdiction”. Let us go to -- The Hansard has captured it. The man is aware that he said something untoward and being a good friend, Okerchiri, it is not late for you to withdraw that aspect so that we expunge it from the Hansard.
    Mr. E. T. Mensah 11:15 a.m.


    Mr. Samuel Sallas-Mensah -- rose
    -- 11:15 a.m.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    Hon.
    Sallas-Mensah, are you rising on a point of order?
    Mr. Sallas-Mensah 11:15 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    Hon.
    Sallas-Mensah, you are out of order.
    Mr. J. B. Aidoo 11:15 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, every
    Bill coming to this House is important and therefore it has almost become a convention that even with small numbers of the House, we still are able to take these Bills through. Mr. Speaker, we do not need a full House to consider such a Bill and the practice here is that always it is not the whole House, that is, all hon. Members present who actually take part in the consideration of such Bills.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    Thank you, hon. Aidoo.
    Mr. E. T. Mensah 11:15 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, my hon. Friend just said that all Bills are equal. Mr. Speaker, I want him to know that there are some Bills which are more equal than others. This is a very important Bill dealing with the pensions of people in this country --
    Mr. J. B. Aidoo 11:15 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, for the records. I said Bills coming here are all important. I am not saying they are equal. He should strike the difference. What I am saying is that every Bill coming here is important.
    Mr. E. T. Mensah 11:15 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, that
    is why I am intervening. Some are more important than others. We are all hon. Members of Parliament here. The Speaker is sitting up there to conduct affairs. The fingers are all not that important even though they perform important functions.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    So hon. E.
    T. Mensah, your position is that you want this one to be suspended?
    Mr. E. T. Mensah 11:15 a.m.
    Yes, Mr. Speaker.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    Fair
    enough. You have made your point.
    Dr. Paa Kwesi Nduom 11:15 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker,
    Mr. J. B. Aidoo 11:15 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, unless
    the hon. Member can give us an assurance that come next Tuesday, Wednesday,
    Thursday and Friday he will be in this House to contribute to the consideration of this Bill -- Mr. Speaker, today he is here, come tomorrow and come Monday, he might not be here. [Laughter.] He will be out there talking about sesamu - [Laughter.]
    Mr. Speaker, when next are we going to find him here? The Business of the House must go on without waiting for anybody.
    Mr. Speaker, as I have already indicated, we have conducted similar business here with smaller numbers and therefore nothing should hold us back in the consideration of this Bill today.
    Dr. Nduom 11:15 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the hon.
    Member interrupted me. He did not allow me to finish making my point. I am listening to what he is saying. He also wants to come back to this House and I am sure he knows campaigning is important. But this Bill Mr. Speaker, in all seriousness, this is one of the most important Bills this House can ever pass. This has to do with the safety and security of all Ghanaians, not just a few. This Bill when it is passed, I believe, will make the Ghanaian economy grow exponentially. So we must take time, consider it well and make sure that we have put the best Pension Bill on the table.
    Mr. Okerchiri 11:15 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, when the
    Business Committee took this position that as much as possible Business of the House should go ahead perhaps irrespective of the derogation that we may suffer in terms of numbers, what underpinned it was that we knew that this was going to be a short Meeting. We were going to embark on campaigning and therefore the Business of the House certainly will have to suffer. That is why we took this decision.
    I beg the hon. Doe Adjaho, the hon. E.T. Mensah that what informed us to
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    Finally,
    you Mr. E.T. Mensah, before I make a decision on the matter.
    Mr. E.T. Mensah 11:15 a.m.
    Mr. Speaker, the
    hon. Majority Leader is aware that the Business Committee is a Committee of the whole House and they bring your reports to us. You do not expect us to be elephant stamps. That is why we have discussed it and we are saying that we could have brought issues which are not as important as these ones and let them go through. But this one is very important and that is why we are drawing your attention to it. So since we do not have any of our members of the Committee even here - the Ranking Members also are not here - whom do we consult? And that is why we are saying that Mr. Speaker, we are appealing to you that this one is stood down and taken early next week so that we can sit throughout and deal with it.
    rose
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    Yes, hon.
    Kenneth Dzirasah, you wanted to make a point?
    Mr. Dzirasah 11:15 a.m.
    Yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr.
    Speaker, yesterday, there was no objection and that was why Business continued. We need to respect the Standing Orders. If in fact, we do not have a quorum the fact of the absence of Colleagues on other important assign-ments does not mitigate the need for us to respect the Standing
    Orders.
    Mr. Speaker, it is important that at this stage, we look at whether or not we should go ahead with this Bill and there is an overwhelming impression here that this Bill should be deferred. And I would pray that Mr. Speaker look favourably to the request because by doing that we would be respecting the Standing Orders.
    Mr. Hackman Owusu-Agyemang 11:25 a.m.
    Rt. Hon. Speaker, I am at my wits end in understanding, especially my very good Friend here. Yesterday, the number was even less than this. I was here and when he was making the brilliant submission, the numbers were even less. The point is that with the political situation now in the country, if we continue to cast our ownselves in stone concrete, we will not make any progress.

    Indeed, we have and he is aware -- he has sat in your place before -- he is aware that many a time we have had very few people doing this. So we are not saying that we are not respecting our Standing Orders; we are saying that inasmuch as we are masters of our own procedures in these exceptional circumstances, can we continue to do it and then maybe at the Third Reading - there is no need to quote the Standing Orders because we all understand it; we know but we have done this in the past.

    If they believe that it is such a huge matter that we should not proceed, it is another story. But do not let them set the precedent so that in future we will constrain ourselves with this same issue of Standing Orders. Because we have done it before and Mr. Speaker, you yourself know, everybody in this House knows.

    So I do not see the point the Deputy

    Minority Whip is making by saying these things but yet we know the rules. The rules are made for man, not man for the rules. And if we can make progress, why not make progress? The thing is so important for the workers of this country and that is why we want to consider. There is no point arguing that it is so important that -- We may not be able to have the whole House until the elections - the majority.

    So I want to urge you, Sir, to rule on the matter positively so we can make progress.
    Mr. First Deputy Speaker 11:25 a.m.
    Hon. Members, my hands are tied in this case. Once objection has been raised by no less a person than the Deputy Minority Leader, and I thought, indeed that was my impression -- impression was given to me by Leadership that for the peculiar situation in which we find ourselves naturally people are out in the various constituencies trying to file their papers but just as some of you have insisted, this is a very important Bill. Indeed that is why we are even making sure that we take it along when we are busy filing our papers.
    And what is even peculiar about this Bill is that, as you yourselves can read through, the various amendments that have been proposed are mainly from the Chairman of the Committee. It appears that there is a consensus amendment and for that matter it would not have offered any reason for us to disagree with him. But if on this floor some of you have protested that you want us to suspend it for one reason or the other I have no other choice.
    The point is that I knew the Leadership had agreed that they should continue. In fact, I have an impression that for today,
    tomorrow and Friday we may not have even the Members that we need and I have sat here for a couple of times, quite a long time and I know that for Consideration Stage invariably there are a few of us around and that has been the case except when it is a little bit controversial.
    Unlike any other Bill this is not that controversial. But if Members say that we should suspend it I have no other option but to agree that the House should stand it down and adjourn because of quorum until tomorrow ten o'clock before noon. Thank you very much.
    ADJOURNMENT 11:25 a.m.