Debates of 3 Jun 2010

MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:34 p.m.
Hon Members, item 8 - Motion - Hon learned Attorney-General.
Mr Pelpuo 12:34 p.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Attorney-General and Minister for Justice is unavoidably absent and has requested her deputy to stand in for her and I want to ask your leave to allow the Hon Deputy Minister to move the Motion.
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:34 p.m.
Any objection?
Mr Dery 12:34 p.m.
Madam Speaker, I think we would indulge the Deputy Attorney- General and Deputy Minister for Justice to move the Motion. Thank you.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:34 p.m.
Hon learned Deputy Attorney-General, you may move the Motion

The details are all set out in the law, there are provisions for what procedure you can put in place to get that kind of assistance in place, the boundaries which are in place and then the right of an accused person to also seek this kind of assistance through the proper procedure. I pray that this Honourable House gives its consent to this Bill because it will help to combat crime to a large extent.

Question proposed.

Mr E. K. Bandua (on behalf of
Chairman of the Committee) 12:34 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to second the motion on behalf of the Chairman of the Committee. Mr Speaker, in doing so, I present the Committee's Report.
1.0 Introduction
1.1 The Mutual Legal Assistance Bill was presented and read the first time in Parliament on the 27th of October, 2009. Rt. Hon Speaker referred the Bill to the Committee on Constitutional, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs for consideration and report pursuant to Article 106 (4) and (5) of the Constitution and Standing Order 179 of the House.
2.0 Deliberation
2.1 The Committee held a workshop with relevant stakeholders to consider the Bill. The technical team from the Attorney-General's Office led by the Hon Attorney-General and Minister for Justice Mrs Betty Mould Iddrisu, the Chairman of the Serious Fraud Office Board, Mr Justice Amonoo Money as well as a representative from the British High Commission, Mr Roger Coventry were all in attendance at the invitation of the Committee to assist in deliberations. The Committee reports as follows:
3.0 Acknowleldgement
BILLS - SECOND READING 12:34 p.m.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Thank you very much Hon Bandua Member of the Committee. Hon Members, pursuant to order 127, a full debate may commence on the principles of the Bill on the basis of the explanatory memorandum and the Report of the Committee.
Question proposed.
Mr William O. Boafo (NPP - Akropong) 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I stand to contribute in support of the Bill. Mr Speaker, the Bill seeks to fill a vacuum so far as other cross transnational crimes are concerned. As of now, we have provisions to cover areas like crimes relating to narcotic drugs, money laundering, transfer of convicted prisoners and Anti-Terrorism Act.
Mr Speaker, the purpose of this Bill is to establish jurisdictions over transnational crimes beyond the specific areas which we now enjoy, and also to encourage the execution of Executive Agreements to cover these areas. Mr Speaker, the other advantage we stand to gain from is that, the clear indication of our preparedness to assist foreign investors in respect of some of these transnational crimes.
Mr William O. Boafo (NPP - Akropong) 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we are also putting ourselves in a position to tell the international community that, we are ready and willing to respect our international obligations. Mr Speaker, it is encouraging to notice that so far as the implementation of the Bill is concerned, it is a multi- ministerial affair. It does not only involve one Ministry but here, we have the Ministry of the Interior, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration and Ministry of Communications all coming together to ensure the implementation of this Bill. Mr Speaker, that takes me to the fact that the Bill seeks to make the Attorney-General and Minister for Justice's office the central authority for the implementation of this Bill.
Mr. Speaker, we have heard complaints from this office about the rate of attrition in the office. And since this particular Bill is imposing an obligation on this Ministry, there is the need for us to ensure that the Ministry is well resourced to handle the situation in order to continue to gain internal confidence in the implementation of this Bill.
Mr Speaker, there is also the need for us to ensure that the good intentions behind this Bill is not abused, especially when you look at the area where covered investigations would be allowed and also there would be interceptions in telecommunications from outside. Mr Speaker, we must ensure that this particular privilege, which is being given by the Bill, may not be used in business circles by competitors to frustrate and stifle others.
We must also make sure that - and this goes to the Attorney-General's office, that where covered investigations are conducted or telecommunications are intercepted to the disadvantage of a particular person and it turns out to be a wrong step which has been taken, that person must surely be compensated for

that wrong doing.

Mr Speaker, we have a provision in the Bill which is very good. It leads to video conferencing when it becomes necessary. Mr Speaker, this also poses a challenge for this country where we must make sure, that whatever we put in a Bill, is not only intended to satisfy international standards but that we must make sure that we have the infrastructure in this country to back up those provisions.

It is a challenge now to the Ministry of Communications to ensure that facilities covering this video conferencing are made available so far as the stakeholders and the players in these particular areas are concerned.

Mr Speaker, in all, the Bill is good; it has come at a proper time where we are seeking to ensure that we secure foreign investment in this country to the advantage of the country so that the country can move forward. So I support the passage of the Bill.
Mr Yaw Baah (NPP - Kumawu) 12:45 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the motion on the floor and its adoption. Mr. Speaker, as we are all aware of the height which current transnational crime has reached, it has become a major concern or global issue in nations' development, that is why there is the need for us to have a law in place to deal with these matters.
Mr Speaker, with the advent of this current political dispensation, especially, as already spoken of by the Hon Member who moved the motion - I am talking about the sector Minister, laws like Narcotic Drug Act, Money Laundering Act and Anti-Terrorism Act. These were laws which were developed as national laws out of Resolutions which were ratified by the country at the United
Mr Yaw Baah (NPP - Kumawu) 12:55 p.m.
This law, that is the Mutual Legal Assistance Law, will deal effectively with other crimes and also give assistance to people who needed it.

Mr Speaker, the Committee also observed that indeed, there are other ministerial sectors that would be involved in the implementation of this law. That is the Ministry of Interior, Ministry of Communications and Ministry of Justice and Attorney-General would have to be partners in dealing with or implementing this law.

Mr Speaker, I believe that the Attorney- General's Department needs to employ more people because we have noticed that there are a lot of people who are leaving the Attorney-General's Department and they must do well to have more legal assistants or those who would work in that department.

Mr Speaker, I also want to urge my Colleagues and the media to raise the awareness of this Bill that there is an assistance that could be given and also people should not just go about having disregard for the laws that we have in this country.

With these few words, Mr Speaker, I beg to support the motion.

Mr Ambrose P. Dery (NPP - Lawra/

Nations (UN).

These laws are meant to combat these transnational crimes, however, if you look at that of Anti-Terrorism Act, it goes further to speak of universal jurisdiction. However, actual implementation - I am talking of its effectiveness, these laws appear to be scattered especially with the first three because of lack of a single law because in this country, we do not have any specific law with regard to this legal assistance.

Therefore, the passage of this law is quite timeous and that it is meant to deal with the inadequacies in the three laws which have already been passed. This law is meant to synchronise as regard to the form, the guidelines, the nature and reason for refusal. Therefore, I am imploring my Hon Colleagues to vote massively for the adoption of this very Bill.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, I would like to caution as a nation, taking a cue from other nations which have already implemented this because after all, we are looking for the best standard and that of international standard. In a situation where an application because it is a reciprocal issue, where we find the advance countries, the most developed ones making such request from those of us who are emerging states, we all know that we need to be guiding against abuse and undue pressure from the end.

With these few words, Mr Speaker, I call on all Hon Colleagues to vote massively for the acceptance of this very motion to address transnational crisis which is currently confronting the whole world.
Mr Emmanuel K. Bedzrah (NDC - Ho West) 1:05 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker for

Nandom): Mr Speaker, I also rise to support the motion.

Mr Speaker, Ghana is party to the United Nations Anti-Corruption Treaty and Africa Anti-Corruption Treaty. Mr. Speaker, this Bill on mutual legal assistance is a further step along the road to make sure that we have the adequate legal framework within the country to make good our commitment to fighting corruption. Over the years, a number of pieces of legislations have been put in place and in recent times, especially, in the direction of anti-corruption, we had the Procurement Act, we have had the Whistle Blowers Act, we have the Anti-Money Laundering Act, 2008, Act 749, we have the Information Bill in the pipeline.

But recognizing that the world is a global village, all what we are doing would come to nothing if we do not have international co-operation in tracking down the activities of criminals and corrupt entities and personalities. For what we know, most of the time there is a network that is able to transfer money out of the country and we know that ultimately, beyond the mutual legal assistance, we would finally have to get to assets recovery. That is when it would become unattractive for people to indulge in the corrupt activities. But for now, we are at this level of trying to work to ensure that international crime is effectively fought by an international effort and that the barriers between states are well taken care of to make sure that we facilitate this effort on our part to fight crime.

We have realized that we have a number of institutions and I see that the Bill is making proposals in respect of the Serious Fraud Office and also the Commission on Human Rights and Administrative Justice. We know that these are the institutions which have a role to play when it comes

to investigating corrupt practices. And when we pass this law, it is going to make it easier for such institutions to collaborate or get information from similar or like institutions in other countries to be able to assist in their investigation of corrupt practices.

Mr Speaker, as we all know, when corruption has been perpetuated, the effect is to make the country unattractive to investment. And we know one of the ways forward, the best way forward is not just aid or grants, we need foreign direct investment and we also need local investment. Both types of investment would not lead to any positive results or impact the lives of our people if corrupt practices are not checked, especially when we allow international cartels to siphon monies out and in the end, we would have our country being an unattractive destination.

So it is in that regard, that I think that this Mutual Legal Assistance Bill is going to be useful . But that is just a framework, legal framework. How are we going to get it effective? We can have the laws but if we do not work to implement the laws, to make them effective, we are going to have a problem. Under the Anti-Money Laundering Act for instance, we have the Financial Intelligence Centre which in the ECOWAS Sub Region has network with other ECOWAS countries and states to try to work to make sure that we effectively check that money is not laundered, moved from one country to another with impunity.

But the administering of justice and the Office of the Attorney-General is the leading Ministry as far as this is concerned. But when it comes to the Financial Intelligence Centre, you have other sectors coming in - Bank of Ghana and other financial institutions. We need to work, first, on the capacity of the lead Ministry to be able to effectively

monitor or be effective in leading in the implementation of the various laws that we have put in place.

And then we need some capacity building, first, for those who are there, and secondly, we need to work to make the conditions of service in that Ministry attractive enough to get the best brains to be there because the criminals engage the best brains to be able to beat state institutions. And so, if we are going to let the Ministry of Justice to become a “Siberia” where people who have the capacity would not like to stay for long - it is increasingly becoming a transit point. I am sure if you get there now and you look beyond the Minister and his Deputy, you might have just a few experienced hands who are there. Otherwise, most of the time you have people coming for National Service and spend one or two years there whiles looking afield for better pastures and when they locate that, they move away.

And so this Ministry, or the Office of the Attorney-General is not going to be effective unless we improve the conditions and also make sure that it is not easy to influence them Because whether we like it or not, organised crime also tries to influence the officers or institutions who want to check them and people are going to be more prone to accepting small tips here and there -- I do not want to use the “B” word, but we need to ensure that we equip the Office of the Attorney-General to effectively do that.

We also need to equip and enhance the capacity of the Serious Fraud Office and also the Commission on Human Rights and Administrative Justice. And above all, we need finally to also build the capacity of the Judiciary because at the end of it all, the Judiciary has a role to play and we

might need the special knowledge, special training for some of the judges to enable them act effectively in their various roles.

Mr Speaker, with these few words I want to say that I support the motion and that this Mutual Legal Assistance Bill -- that we all worked hard to make sure that it becomes law.

Mr Speaker, finally, the point I want to make is this. Sometimes, in our political cycles, we seem to abandon the issues and want to make scapegoats of each other. And I want to say that as far as organised crime is concerned, it is only a united political leadership that can fight it.

And it is a collective responsibility and from both sides of the House whether anybody is part of the Executive, the Legislature or the Judiciary and indeed every citizen of Ghana We need a concerted effort to be able to fight organised crime. If we are not totally committed to that and we want to continue to point fingers when we know that organised crime is beyond our individual capacities to be able to check.

Mr Speaker, I am making this particular

comment in regard to narcotics. I remember when I was privileged to serve at the Ministry of Justice and went to Vienna for a meeting on narcotics. You would clearly get to realise there that the information that was available to us was that West Africa is just a corridor.

We neither produce nor are we the major consumers. It is produced in Latin America where you have several unguarded airfields where they can fly out onto ships. And we need all the efforts, we need international support to be able to fight that menace. And they just use us, especially Ghana which is attractive to them because it is stable and we respect

humanrights. Most of the other places, if you go through a war-torn country, they might just arrest you, take the stuff and kill you.

But in Ghana because of the respect for the rule of law, they are more emboldened to want to pass through this place sometimes. And sometimes it is unfortunate when we see that rather than look at this as a national matter, in fact, we have Nigeria and other countries being worse when it comes to drugs, we turn to want to play the blame game. I think that we must eschew that attitude.

We must jettison that attitude and begin to work together as a country and that one of the ways is to make sure that we pass this Bill and go forward to get the legal arrangement, to get assets recovery and together we will work to fight international crime. It is only then that we can have Ghana to continue to be the leader in West Africa and be the first point of call for foreign investment. And also, it is only then that we can create room for our own local businessmen to be able to make a contribution and make Ghana the country that we all want it to be.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
Thank
you, very much.
The final contribution from the Hon Deputy Majority Leader.
Mr Abdul-Rashid Pelpuo (NDC
- Wa Central): Mr Speaker, I also rise to support the motion that this very, very important Bill - the Mutual Legal Assistance Bill be supported by everyone of us because of the quality it is going to introduce into how we develop our capacity to fight transnational crimes in this country.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
Thank you, very much.
Hon learned Deputy Attorney-General, you may respond.
Deputy Attorney-General and
Deputy Minister for Justice (Mr Barton-Odro): Thank you, very much, Mr Speaker.
I would first of all want to thank colleague Hon Members for the interest
shown in this particular Bill. We have taken note of the points raised by them variously. I am particularly pleased with the fact that Hon Members are aware of the rate at which we are losing members of our staff and therefore the need to improve upon their conditions of service.
Indeed, we have been in touch with His Excellency, the President over this issue because we think it is very fundamental to the kind of work that can be done in our Ministry. We want to assure Hon Members that we would do all in our power to ensure that if this Bill becomes law, it will help to stem the cross border crimes that are facing us in our sub-region as well as across Africa and beyond.
We thank you very much.
Question put and motion agreed to.
BILLS CONSIDERATION STAGE 1:05 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee (Dr Ahmed Y. Alhassan) 1:05 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 111 - Head note, delete “Establishment of Ghana Fertilizer Regulatory Division” and substitute “Establishment of Pesticides Fertilizer Regulatory Division”
Mr Speaker, the original rendition was to establish a Ghana F e r t i l i z e r Regulatory Division but at the Committee, we thought that should be amended to make it a Division within the already existing Directorate of the Ministry. And that is why the amendment is being proposed that we should rather establish a Pesticides and Fertilizer Regulatory Division so that the bureaucracy can be
shorten for activities to run faster.
I so submit.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
There is a further amendment.
Dr Alhassan 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 111, subclause (1), delete and substitute the following:
“There is established by this Act a body to be known as the Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division”.
Mr Speaker, the amendment is
consequential to what happened in the head note.
Mr Boafo 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my problem is
that this Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division cannot be a body; it is a division of the Ministry. It is supposed to operate under the Plant Protection and Regulatory Services Directorate of the Ministry. So it cannot be a body. Mr Speaker, I will prefer a combination of the proposed amendment for subclauses (1) and (2). I will prefer a combination so that we recast it.
Mr Speaker, my proposal in recasting is as follows 1:15 p.m.
“There is established by this Act a Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division to operate under the Plant Protection and Regulatory Services Directorate of the Ministry”.
That is a combination of the proposed amendment. That is (iii) and (iv).
If I may go over my recasting.
“There is established by this Act a Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division to operate under the Plant Protection and Regulatory Services Directorate of the Ministry”.
Because I do not see how the division can be a body in itself.
Mr Speaker, I am deleting from (iii) “…body to be known as the..”.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
“There is established by this Act a Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division…” --
Mr Boafo 1:15 p.m.
And I am continuing under (iv) from the word “operate”. I am also dropping the words “The Regulatory Division shall…”
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
But do we need the combination - do we necessarily need the combination to make it meaningful, Hon Boafo? “There is established by this Act a Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division” -- do we have to go to the next one and add to it? I just wanted to know.
Mr Boafo 1:15 p.m.
We need to add it to the first one. Mr Speaker, the first one purports to make the division a body of the Ministry -- “There is established a Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division..”.
Dr Alhassan 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I will accept the further amendment except to say that we could just end at taking out “a body to be known as the…” and then leave it at “There is established by this Act, a Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division” which would be subclause (1). And subclause (2) will then say” “the Regulatory Division shall operate under…” just for clarity.
Mr Dery 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that I
Mr Dery 1:15 p.m.


agree with the Chairman that if we could just leave it as “There is established by this Act a Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division”. But when we get to the next one, I would want us to expand the Regulatory Division because why are you summarizing it? You should repeat the name and say - but I think this particular (iii), we should leave it as “There shall be established by this Act a Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division.”
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
The
amendment will read:
“There is established by this Act a Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division”.
Mr Boafo 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, agreed.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Dr Alhassan 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 111, subclause (2), delete and substitute the following:
“The Regulatory Division shall operate under the Plant Protection and Regulatory Services Directorate of the Ministry”.
So that the Regulatory Division is coming out in full in the object.
Mr J. B. Aidoo 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just want to draw your attention to a fundamental issue, that is, the Head note that was amended states “Pesticides” , that is plural. But then as we go along, the subclauses that are coming up, we are using “Pesticide”. I need some kind of guidance on this, because we have to be consistent in the law.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Thank you Hon Member.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Dr Alhassan 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 112 - Paragraph (a), line 1, delete “advice” and substitute “advise” and in line 2, before “Act” insert “part of the”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Dr Alhassan 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 112 - Add a new subclause as follows:
“(2) the Regulatory Division shall advise the Minister to designate analytical laboratories which shall be responsible for:
a. receiving and documenting receipt of official fertilizer samples from the inspection service;
b. preparing and analyzing official samples; and
c. reporting results of analysis to the Administrative Service Division.
Mr Dery 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am in principle supporting the amendment, except to propose that we should make it the Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division because that is consequential from the clause 111 (2) where the Regulatory Division was expanded to be the Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division. Subject to that amendment, I support what the Chairman has moved.
Dr Alhassan 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that is all right.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
So that 112 (2) should read: “the pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division.” Is that so?
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr J. B. Aiddo 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was trying to catch your eye several times but I failed to do so.
The amendment that we carried,
that is (iv), I think it should have had consequential amendments in 112 (b) and then also 112 (e) because the same amendment appears to apply to these sub- clauses. If we take (b) “the Division shall be responsible for the implementation of this part of the Act.” And then when you come to (e), again, it should be “the Division shall perform any other functions that are ancillary to the objects of the Regulatory Division under this part of the Act.”
Dr Alhassan 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if the detail would explain things better, that is fine and I agree to that.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
So that this part of the Act should flow to (b) as well as to (e). Is that it?
Mr J. B. Aidoo 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, once (a) is carried, then it should be consequential. We carried this amendment in (a).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Yes, we have go the rational; we just want to be sure which section it should be applied to.
Mr J.B. Aidoo 1:15 p.m.
“This part of the Act,” that is in (b) and in (e).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Hon Boafo, do you have any objection?
Mr Boafo 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is on a different matter.
Mr J. B. Aidoo 1:15 p.m.
Is it “pesticides” or “pesticide”?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee, for consistency sake, what shall we adopt?
Dr Alhassan 1:15 p.m.
“Pesticide” with an “s”. I was told that wherever singular is used in the Bill it also encompasses the plural. So in the Head note, yes, we can say “pesticides” but the content could be “pesticide”. I do not know. The legal people -- I think singular in the body of the clauses should be all right.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Singular, yes, because that would be more in line with “pesticide” and “fertilizer” that has not got the plural. So if we would simply say “pesticide” it will make life easier for all of us.
Thank you very much and for all those, note should be taken, it should be singular, which would be inclusive of course, the plural. For that matter, I will put the Question.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 111 as variously amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 112 - Functions of the Division
Dr Alhassan 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 112 - Head note, delete and substitute the following:
“Functions of the Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division”.
Mr Dery 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think it is consequential, so, we should just adopt it and move on.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Then shall we conclude this.
Mr Boafo 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, on the correction of the expression Regulatory Division to its full name.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon Boafo, shall we conclude one. I will come back to you so that we shall do it in a tidy manner.
112 as listed in (vi) and Hon Member, your further amendment is that the insertion “part of the” should apply to both (b) and (e) therein.
Mr J. B. Aidoo 1:25 p.m.
Rightly so, Mr Speaker.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon Dery, any issue on that particular matter?
Mr Dery 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, (e) reads -- “perform any other functions that are ancillary to the objects of the Regulatory Division under this Act.” Now if you say this “this part of the Act,” then you are limiting it to this one but we are talking of ancillary. It goes beyond this part of the Act. So that is where that amendment would not be positive.
Mr J. B. Aidoo 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I will agree with him that we drop (e) but then (b) should stand. “This part of the Act will apply to (b).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
So that it would read: 112 (b) “Be responsible for the implementation of this part of the Act.” Is that what you mean?
Mr J. B. Aidoo 1:25 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr Boafo 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not see the problem with the defect which is being pointed out by the Hon Member because
this particular body is a body which is going to deal with the fertilizer issue and fertilizer is part three. Fertilizer is not the entire Act. We have three parts. We have plants, we have seeds and we have fertilizers. And this one is dealing with the role of the Regulatory Division in respect of fertilizers. That is part three. So Mr Speaker, what he is saying is quite in order and it should apply to both (b) and (e) --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Because it is in reference to only one aspect of the Act as a whole, is that not so?
Mr Boafo 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, not the entire Act but part three of the Act.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Is that clear and for that matter the amendment should stand for both (b)and (e).
Mr Dery 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not know about the (b) but the (e), when you are talking about ancillary, something can be ancillary although it does not sit squarely within that part. We are talking about incidental, it is like an omnibus. So how do you restrict an omnibus to a part of the Act, what is why I did not go for (b). But when comes to ancillary, there is room for you there to by interpretation say that it is something that is related to the activity that is not squarely within the part, it should be allowed then to go to that area. So for ancillary, we should not limit it to the part.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Hon Boafo, does that satisfy your aspiration?
Mr Boafo 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I still maintain that Hon Aidoo is correct because if reference --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
In fact, Hon Aidoo incidentally had already shifted ground. You are placing him where he had already moved away from.
Mr Boafo 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, but I believe
he has now been persuaded to go back to his original position because even, in terms of ancillary, ancillary to what? It cannot be ancillary to the entire act. It can be only ancillary to the function which has originally been assigned to that division.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Hon Dery, the argument is that, whatever is ancillary must relate to - the main.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, listening to the arguments -- as I met them make those arguments, that is Hon Aidoo and the Hon W. O. Boafo, my initial inclination was to agree with them. I think if one goes back to part one which concerns plants protection, it talks about pests. Pests, and I believe now we are talking about not only fertilizer control, are talking about pest control as well. So if you talk about anything that is ancillary to the function, you may as well go back to part one. And if you should go back to part one, then certainly, we would understand that it could have effect on part one. For which reason, if he has shifted ground, I noticed though that he wanted to go back, I think he must be estopped and we can go on.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
So the proposed amendment should now stand as (b) only.
Mr Dery 1:35 p.m.
(b) only (e) unaffected.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Very well. “Be responsible for the implementation of this Act”. So that it should read what? We want to get the full rendition after the amendment.
Mr J. B. Aidoo 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, before “Act” we insert “part of the”. So that it reads --
“The Division shall --
( b ) r e s p o n s i b l e f o r t h e implementation of this part of the Act”.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee, we had just concluded clause 112. We were to put the Question.
Mr Boafo 1:35 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, it appears that the expression “Regulatory Division” occurs in (d) and (e) and it continues to be referred to in subsequent sections like clause 113 and clause 113 (2). So, Mr Speaker, either you direct that it should be amended as agreed or we retain “Regulatory Division” and provide the definition of what is the “Regulatory Division” in the definition.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Shall we say then we want it to be the neater one that wherever “Regulatory Division” appears, it should be “Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division”. And that affects (vii), is that not so?
Mr Boafo 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it will affect 112 (d) and (e). Then when we go to 113 also and 113 (2).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
It should read:
“Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division”.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have been told that for 112, some amendments have been proffered and that it now reads in place of division, the “Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division”. That being so for (d) we just state “Division”. Once you are stating that up there when you come to (d) you impose the charges that you consider necessary for services rendered by the Division; just that. And that will have a consequential effect for (e) as well.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Very well, that is mainly a drafting matter and
-- 1:35 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee (Dr Alhassan 1:35 p.m.
) Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 113, head note, after “Administrator” add “of the Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division”.
The original idea was that the
Regulatory Administrator was to be appointed by the President. We I thought that would be difficult to manage because the Directorate and for somebody to be under him and appointed by the President will create an administrative confusion. So, it was watered down to say that there will be a regulator, an administrator of the Division who will be in charge of the day to day administration of the division.
Mr Boafo 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe it will be more elegant if we delete the words “fertilizer regulatory” and just maintain “Administrator of Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division” If we would delete the initial words “fertilizer regulatory” as head notes.
Prof. Akumfi 1:45 p.m.
Pesticides and Fertilizer Regulatory Division, right? Here, we are being specific in going for Administrator for fertilizer. Is it for both?
Dr Alhassan 1:45 p.m.
Yes.
Prof. Akumfi 1:45 p.m.
One administrator? Good.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 113 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
There is a further amendment to clause 113 in the name of the Chairman of the Committee.
Dr Alhassan 1:45 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, subclause (1) delete the original intention was to delete subclause 1 and not delete subclause 2; but amend subclause 2, to say that the Head of that Division is in charge of the day-to-day administration. There is a bit of confusion there but that is the clarification. Otherwise, there will be no clause, it will be only the Head Notes.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee subclause 1 delete?
Dr Alhassan 1:45 p.m.
Yes, sub clause 1 is to be deleted.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Shall we go step by step? Subclause 1 delete. Subclause (2) we shall amend. Hon Members, shall we tackle subclause (2) for the sake of being properly guided, and the idea is to amend subclause (2) to read what?
Dr Alhassan 1:45 p.m.
Subclause (2) is amended to read that, “The Head of the Pesticide and Fertilizer Regulatory Division is responsible for the day to day administration of the affairs of the Division.
Mr Ambrose Dery 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think there is an omission in what the Chairman has stated. He is now referring to the Head of the Pesticides and Regulatory Division, but who is the Head? Is he saying the Administrator is
the Head? Otherwise he says the Head, who is the Head? Because, what you have here tells us that the Administrator is the Head. So, if he is amending it is he saying that the Administrator is the Head? I want guidance from you, Chairman, who is the Head?
Dr Alhassan 1:45 p.m.
Yes, I just wanted this amendment to be suspended so that I can have some consultations and then we can continue. I want to consult the experts at the Ministry and then come back to it so that we can make progress on the other clauses.
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Hon Member, do you want to make a contribution.
Mr Effah-Baafi 1:45 p.m.
Yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the idea is that the Pesticides and Fertilizer Regulatory Division has two administrators. We have the Fertilizer Administrator and then the Pesticides Administrator. So this is referring to the Fertilizer Administrator.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Shall we then say so?
Mr Dery 1:45 p.m.
I think the Minister should come back because the head notes originally was Fertilizer Regulatory Administrator. It has been amended, that after “Administrator” add “of the Pesticides and Fertilizer Regulatory Division” So we are no more dealing with one part. It is now the two put together. Yes, that is what the amendment of the head notes show.
Prof. Akumfi Ameyaw 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think by altering that head note we have confused ourselves. What the Chairman originally put down was to expand the
Mr Dery 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speake r, I do acknowledge the intervention of my Friend, Professor. But what I was saying is this that by (viii) the amendment proposed which we dealt with has changed the head notes, that head note “after Administrator” add “of the Pesticides and Fertilizer Regulatory Division”. Having done so if you now come to the original clause 113 (2), you now have the Fertilizer Regulator Administrator.
The Chairman is proposing, apparently in consonance with the amended Head Note, saying that the Head shall be r e spons ib l e f o r day - to -day t he administration of the Division. And I just wanted guidance from him, who that head is. That is all I am asking. So it is left to him to respond to me, that it is the administrator, or somebody else I do not know. Who is that Head? That is all.
Mr Effah-Baafi 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, as I indicated earlier, the Pesticides and Fertilizer Regulatory Division has two units, for fertilizer regulation and the pesticides regulation and the Head of the Fertilizer Regulatory Division is the Fertilizer Administrator.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Hon Members, having regard to the state of business in the House and the time at the moment, I direct under Order 40 (3) that Sitting be extended beyond the prescribed hour.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the gentleman who just spoke is
the Deputy Minister and I suspect he is in charge of this Bill. The issue that he has introduced is very substantial and it goes to affect the very kernel of what we are doing, because he seems to be telling us that we are doing the wrong thing.
In the appointment of the Administrator, if indeed, as he is saying there are two then he seems to be suggesting to us that we have only accorded the President the right under Article 195 to appoint only the fertilizer regulatory administrator and not the pests, because that is indeed what we have done under Order 113. So it is important that we have a serious look at what we are doing regarding the Regulatory Division, otherwise we may end confusing the whole thing, for which reason Mr Speaker, I may apply that we stand it down for further consultation, perhaps to come back tomorrow to deal with it. Otherwise, we may veer off tangent.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
It is very important and time is far spent. In actual fact, the Chairman of the Committee himself had asked for consultations. Hon Deputy Majority Leader, if it is not yet two o'clock, a motion may come for adjournment.
Mr Pelpuo 1:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, at this point it does appear - [Interruption.] - Mr Speaker, it looks like the Chairman still has something to say, can we - [Inter- ruption.]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
The Chairman of the Committee has apparently not taken the appropriate cue. Hon Majority Leader, please continue on the line your Brother and Counterpart ended.
Mr Pelpuo 1:55 p.m.
Thank you. Mr Speaker, we have got to a point where it does appear
obvious that, we would have to suspend our work on the Bill until tomorrow so we can continue from where we are stopping. The fact is that, time is far spent and the House is getting depleted. So I would request that we adjourn until tomorrow. And I so move.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I guess today is not a very happy day for the Deputy Leader. He says the House is depleted; is he saying that what we have been doing is an outright illegality? Anyway, Mr Speaker, clearly, the Chair and the Deputy Minister need to confer, plus the technical people, for them to properly advise us on the course to take. Whilst seconding the Motion, I may just want to repeat the announcement made by the Majority Leader before he left, about tomorrow's meeting - 9 o'clock, Committee of the Whole meeting.
If the Deputy Leader is available, could we have an arrangement where Hon Members would be reminded as per, maybe, text messages? I think, it would do us good. So, tomorrow 9 o'clock, we will meet here. Tomorrow being Friday and given the circumstances of the times, I am not too sure we may be able to continue tomorrow. But of course, a lot depends on the advice that may be proffered by the Chair and the Deputy Minister.
Mr Speaker, on that note, I second the Motion by the Deputy Leader.
Question put and Motion agreed to.
ADJOURNMENT 1:55 p.m.