Debates of 23 Jun 2010

MADAM SPEAKER
PRAYERS 11:05 a.m.
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
Hon Members, Correction of Votes and Proceedings and the Official Report of Tuesday, 22nd June,
2010.

Hon Members, in the absence of any

corrections, the Votes and Proceedings of Tuesday, 22nd June, 2010 is adopted as the true record of proceedings.

We have got two of the Official Reports,

17th and 18th June, 2010. If you have them, shall we start with the 17th June, 2010?

Hon Members, in the absence of any

corrections, the Official Report of 17th June, 2010 is hereby adopted as the true record of proceedings.

Shall we move to the Friday, 18th June, 2010 Official Report?
rose
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
Yes, were you on
the old one? Which Report? Of what date?
Mr Assumeng 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
Friday, 18th June, 2010.
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
The 18th? All right.
Mr Assumeng 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
Friday, 18th June, 2010, column 1004.
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
Column 1004?
Mr Assumeng 11:05 a.m.
Yes, Madam Speaker,
the last paragraph, line (4) - “Roman Range”, not “Roman Ridge”. It should be “Roman Range.”
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
Oh, another
“Ridge,” we should take one “Ridge” out?
Mr Assumeng 11:05 a.m.
No, Madam Speaker. The first one should be “Roman Range”, and the second one should be “Ridge”.
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
That is what is
there, is it not? “Areas like Roman Ridge, Ridge, and just behind the tower block.”
Mr Assumeng 11:05 a.m.
Yes, Madam Speaker,
we have “Roman Range” area before we have “Ridge” area as well. These are different settlements.
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
So what is the
correction in that paragraph?
Mr Assumeng 11:05 a.m.
So the first one should
be “Roman Range.”
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
“Range?”
Mr Assumeng 11:05 a.m.
Yes, Madam Speaker,
the one --
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
Not “Ridge”,
“Range”?
Mr Assumeng 11:05 a.m.
Yes, Madam Speaker;
then the second one should be “Ridge”.
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
Ah!
Mr Assumeng 11:05 a.m.
These are different areas, settlements.
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
All right. So
“Roman Range,” then “Ridge”?
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
“And just behind
the tower block?”
Mr Assumeng 11:05 a.m.
Yes, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
All right, we will
get that done.

Hon Members, the Official Report of Friday, 18th June, 2010 as corrected represents the true record of proceedings.

We move on to Questions - Question

time.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 11:15 a.m.
MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS 11:15 a.m.
AND REGIONAL INTEGRATION 11:15 a.m.
Minister for Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration (Alhaji Muhammad Mumuni) 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, it may be recalled that in July 2005, a number of our citizens lost their lives, and others unaccounted for, in rather tragic circumstances in The Gambia.
The previous Administration made efforts to get to the bottom of the tragic events that led to the loss of Ghanaian lives in The Gambia. As a result of these efforts, a joint United Nations (UN) and Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) Fact-Finding Panel was established on August 14, 2008 at the request of the Governments of Ghana and The Gambia, to facilitate efforts by both Governments to bring about the pacific resolution of the issues referred to earlier, consistent with the principles of justice, and respect for human rights and human dignity.
It may also be recalled that prior to assuming the reins of Government in January, 2009, the National Democratic Congress (NDC) made a commitment to the people of Ghana to vigorously pursue this matter with a view to unravelling the circumstances surrounding the deaths and disappearances of our nationals.
The UN/ECOWAS Fact-Finding Panel presented its report on 11th May, 2009 at the ECOWAS Commission headquarters in Abuja, Nigeria. Delegations from the two countries, represented by the Ministers of Foreign Affairs, the Interior and Justice of The Gambia and the Ministers for Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration and the Interior of Ghana were present and discussed the report.
Madam Speaker, although the report did not fully address the concerns of both sides, the Governments of Ghana and The Gambia agreed to accept the findings and recommendations of the Panel, and work together to bring closure to that unfortunate tragedy and strive to restore normalcy to their bilateral relations. The delegations agreed that:
Mr Afful 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I do not think there is any argument when the cash was received and whether cash was received. My question to the Hon Minister is, why it took them so long to disclose this to the Ghanaian public, particularly - [Interruption] - particularly the victims' families? [Interruptions.]
Madam Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Order! Order!
Hon Minister?
Alhaji Mumuni 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, this incident is a very regrettable one and both countries would wish they could bring it to a rapid closure. This is because there is a lot in common between our country and The Gambia and we have interests in each other's country. Unfortunately, the circumstances of this incident have posed challenges, quite daunting challenges. After the initial identification --
The bodies were actually buried and then upon the exhumation, it was discovered that the bodies could not actually be identified even though they were buried in separate bags. The remains do not have names to them and therefore, it is difficult to link up the bodies with the requisite families.
The Ministry, at the direction of the Cabinet, has put in place a committee now to invite Ghanaian public and people claiming to be relations of the deceased persons to come forward and identify pictures that are available and then DNA samples would be taken in an effort to link up particular bodies with particular families. It is only then when that identification is made possible, that the bodies can be released to the respective families for the burial and the subsequent issues will then be taken up. We are all very anxious to bring this matter to a rapid closure.
Mr Afful 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my next
question is, can the Hon Minister tell us the potential number of beneficiaries to this US$500,000 that was received from The Gambian Government?
Madam Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Yes, can you tell the potential number?
Alhaji Mumuni 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
a) the two Governments would co-operate in the exhumation and repatriation of the bodies to their families in Ghana so that they would be given befitting traditional burials;
b) the two delegations acknowledged that the Government of The Gambia was not directly or indirectly complicit in the deaths and disappearances of the Ghanaian nationals concerned. The Government of The Gambia could not therefore, be held to pay compensation.
Nonetheless, The Gambian Government agreed to make contributions to the families of the Ghanaians found dead on The Gambian territory, in conformity with African traditional values shared by both countries; and
c) both sides pledged to pursue, through all available means, the arrest and prosecution of all those involved in the deaths and disappearances of the Ghanaians concerned. They also agreed to follow up on any future leads in the case of those suspected missing.
On the margins of the 13th Ordinary Session of the Assembly of Heads of State and Government of the African Union (AU) held in Sirte, Libya, in July, 2009, the two Governments signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) to implement the recommendations of the Panel. Subsequently, on Sunday, 18th October, 2009, the mortal remains of eight (8) bodies were exhumed and returned to

when this incident broke, the media information that was carried was that there were 44 Ghanaians who had lost their lives in The Gambia and quite a number of people came forward and claimed to be related to these persons.

Now, after the fact-finding team went to work and came out with their report, they said that only six bodies out of eight bodies that were found in the forest area near Ghana Town in The Gambia were positively identified to be Ghanaians and therefore, the position as of now is that six Ghanaians actually lost their lives in that incident. Quite a number of people were unaccounted for.

The fact-finding team indicated that the whole team comprised West Africans; there were Ghanaians; there were Nigerians; there were other West African nationals. And therefore, we are looking to discover the families of the six persons who have been positively identified as Ghanaians, they certainly would qualify to receive the contribution that has been sent by The Gambian Government.

There was also some eye witness or eyewitnesses who gave leads. Clearly, we would be looking to identify them and whoever else that would be found to have suffered some loss, would clearly qualify to receive this contribution. But primarily, we are focusing on the families of the six dead persons.
Mr Afful 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister stated in his Answer about a pathologist working on the identification process. My question to him is, when is that process going to complete? The identification process, when is it going to complete?
Alhaji Mumuni 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the
process has actually started; it is ongoing.
Alhaji Mumuni 11:25 a.m.


One of our officers who happened to be in the front line when the incident was being investigated and who was posted outside the country has been summoned.

He is back in the country to join the team that is going to supervise the work of getting the families to come and identify the bodies. They are going to work in concert with the pathologist who would also conduct the DNA tests and matching.
Mr Dan Botwe 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in the first paragraph of the Hon Minister's Answer, he talks about the fact that a number of our citizens lost their lives and others unaccounted for, which clearly shows that the Hon Minister is not sure about the number of people who died. Then in the ninth paragraph, he says eight bodies were exhumed and returned to Ghana - [Interruptions.] Madam Speaker, I counted eight on page 31; I can read eight, I cannot read six and I have a very good eyesight.
Alhaji Mumuni 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
when this unfortunate incident broke, there were claims and counter-claims in the media particularly, and as I indicated, initially, everybody assumed that the whole bunch of people that were involved in that incident, 44 of them were all Ghanaians.
As a result of the confused state of affairs, both countries, Ghana and The Gambia agreed to have the UN and ECOWAS together to assist to put in place a fact-finding team to go to the ground and establish the facts for us to be able to proceed to deal with them. It was the fact-finding team that went to work and came out with a report that said that of eight bodies that were actually discovered, six of them were positively identified to be Ghanaians.
They were unable to also say whether other Ghanaians had actually been killed elsewhere or for that matter, they were not able to account for the Ghanaians who went missing, if any. So as matters stand today, based on the fact-finding team's report, we have a case of six Ghanaians who were actually killed on the occasion. That is the position.
Of course, both countries in their desire to ensure that this matter does not just pass off, decided that if subsequently there is evidence of any Ghanaians killed or any other citizens killed or found missing, clearly, it will be a case that will warrant a re-opening of the matter to be gone into. We want to ensure that every single Ghanaian life counts and it is important and it is accounted for.
Mr Mathias K. Ntow 11:25 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, please, I want to know from the Hon Minister whether The Gambian Government has been able to make some arrests as far as the deaths of these Ghanaians are concerned.
Alhaji Mumuni 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, The
Gambian Government has not been able to make any arrests. Indeed, if you look at the fact-finding team's report, two citizens or two persons have been mentioned as people who organized some kind of a scam operation which led to the deaths and the
disappearance of some of these people. Now, their names have been mentioned; one of them is a Gambian citizen, the other one is not. But there is no evidence that The Gambian Government has been able to apprehend them or anybody else for that matter.
Mrs Catherine A. Afeku 11:25 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, in the Hon Minister's response on page 31, said that the compensation was brought to Ghana on January 7, 2010. I would like him to inform this House if, indeed, there is any interest being accrued on this said money that is lodged in the Government's Account. And if, indeed, it is so, will that interest be cumulating as part of the compensation for these families? Would he, please, clarify this to this House?
Alhaji Mumuni 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I must admit that I am not on top of the issue, whether this money in the account that it is lodged will attract interest but I can find out and let the Hon Member know subsequently.
Mr Albert Kan-Dapaah 11:25 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, the specific promise by the National Democratic Congress (NDC) as alluded to by the Hon Minister was to go beyond the efforts of the New Patriotic Party (NPP) to get to the bottom of the matter.
In the third paragraph, Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister recalls that prior to assuming power in 2009, the NDC made a commitment to the people of Ghana to pursue this matter with a view to unravelling the circumstances surrounding the deaths and disappearances of our nationals.
Madam Speaker, when you go through
Madam Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Ask him, that is
why you are here; ask him.
Mr Kan-Dapaah 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
I am putting it to him that no such extra efforts have been made. Will he admit that Ghanaians have been short-changed?
Alhaji Mumuni 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my very Hon Friend, Mr Kan-Dapaah clearly has got the wrong end of it. The efforts that the Government has made has been to co-operate with the UN/ECOWAS Fact- finding Panel to collaborate with them to ensure that they get down to the ground to understand the issues and to make findings -- which they did and presented a report and that report was received and discussed together with The Gambian counterparts.
At the end of the day, certain definite actions have been taken as I have indicated in the main body of the Answer. And we are still endeavouring to ensure that this matter is brought to a satisfactory end.
Clearly, a lot has been done and is
being done by this Administration, as we indicated, to ensure that the lives of these Ghanaians would not be lost in vein and that their rights would be vindicated - the families and Ghanaian citizens would be vindicated.
Mr Kwaku Agyenim-Boateng 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I know that there is a survivor in this whole saga and as we are talking and speaking so much about the dead and adequate measures being taken to care for the dead. I would want to know
Mr Kwaku Agyenim-Boateng 11:35 a.m.


whether the only survivor in this whole saga, in the person of Mr Martin Kyere is being considered for compensation package.

I understand that he is the whistleblower in this whole saga and I want to know from the Hon Minister whether there is any consideration for him in this package and whether he is going to be taken care of.
Alhaji Mumuni 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
indeed, the one witness that has come prominently into the limelight following media reports is the gentleman that has been mentioned, Mr Martin Kyere, who gave valuable insights into the tragedy that led to all the efforts that are being made.
Indeed, we are in touch with him. We are also in touch with other witnesses. He was not just alone and clearly, we have them in mind. We have in mind other persons who may in the course of events show sufficient interest or loss to warrant any compensation or any recompense.
Mr Samuel K. Obodai 11:35 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, in the Hon Minister's Answer, he did indicate that the US$500,000 cash was The Gambian Government's contribution to the burial and funeral rites. Should the families expect any other compensation apart from that for the burial and funeral rites?
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
Hon Minister,
he asks, should they expect any other compensation apart from the $500,000 cash for burial? That is a legitimate question.
Alhaji Mumuni 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
I think there is a little problem here about semantics -- compensation and contribution.
Clearly, as we indicated, this mediation
was facilitated by the UN/ECOWAS and they counselled and advised that having regard to the global relations that we have with The Gambia, we should not approach the matter in an excessively legalistic manner. But we should settle our differences within the context of our African tradition and values. Therefore, it was decided or it was agreed that because six Ghanaians were positively identified as having lost their lives, in accordance with our traditional customs, clearly, The Gambia was under obligation to make a contribution towards the funeral and the burial expenses of the deceased Ghanaians. So the US$500,000 was actually given in that spirit.
Mr Kwasi Ameyaw-Cheremeh 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, Mr Martin Kyere, a native of Berekum in the Brong Ahafo Region is in the gallery and the information some of us have is that -
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
But if he is there,
does it affect our questioning? He is a spectator like anybody else. Can you put your question, please?
Mr Ameyaw-Cheremeh 11:35 a.m.
Madam

Madam Speaker, my question is that the

Hon Minister says that the Fact- finding Panel came out with the fact that six Ghanaians were killed but in his Answer today -- eight bodies have been brought to Ghana. Are the two other bodies Ghanaian nationals or not Ghanaian nationals and are we going to repatriate those dead bodies? We want to know.
Alhaji Mumuni 11:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, it may be necessary to give a little background to this. When this unfortunate incident first broke, eight bodies were found in a forested area outside a community inhabited by Ghanaians, almost exclusively. It is called Ghana Town in The Gambia. When the Fact- finding Panel came along, they identified six of the eight bodies positively to be Ghanaians.
The other two, they were unable to say where they come from but they could not say they were Ghanaians either. Now, when the exhumation exercise took place in The Gambia, we naturally were expecting six bodies to be returned to Ghana but to our surprise, eight bodies were brought. In fact, what had happened was that after the identification, the six bodies in separate bags were put in a bigger bag and buried in a common grave. The other two bodies were also put in a separate bag and buried in a different grave.
So we expected that the six bodies would be brought but eight bodies were brought. We took issues with The Gambian Government over that matter. But while we were discussing that, one of our officers who happened to be, as I indicated, in the forefront of the contact with the investigators and with the families and I believe even with the eyewitness, who was away, gave information that he was convinced that even those other two bodies were also Ghanaians.
So, upon his testimony, we decided that since we are going to do DNA matching in any case, we may as well add those two bodies and then we will be able to, at the end of the day, decide or discover whether they also are Ghanaians or not. This is the story behind the six and eight bodies.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Hackman Owusu-Agyemang 11:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, quite obviously, the Hon Minister has accepted that within the realms of diplomacy, the maximum that can be done was what was done. This is because in an answer to Hon Kan- Dapaah's question, he was not able to articulate any further effort beyond what has been done -
Madam Speaker 11:45 a.m.
No, he was. Hon Hackman, that is a wrong record. He was, he drew attention to ECOWAS and other people. So on the premises, that is wrong. Put a question, put your question. You are debating it, put your question to him.
Mr Owusu-Agyemang 11:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, with the utmost of respect, the -
Madam Speaker 11:45 a.m.
Please, have respect for me too. I respect you and I also demand the respect. Put your question. You are a front bencher, please, put your question and let us move on. I call you all the time.
Mr Owusu-Agyemang 11:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker -
Madam Speaker 11:45 a.m.
What are you saying there was nothing - He explained it, we were all here and you want us to accept it; and for me to sit here and say he made no effort. No! That is not the state of facts. Put your question, you did not get up to lecture us? Did you? Put your question, Hon Member.
Mr Owusu-Agyemang 11:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the facts are quite clear and you
Mr Owusu-Agyemang 11:45 a.m.


are not - I do not know whether the Chair -
Madam Speaker 11:45 a.m.
Hon Member, if you do not have a question, please, let us give the floor to somebody else.
Anybody else? I do not think Hon Hackman has a question.
Mr Owusu-Agyemang 11:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker is taking part in the debate, the Speaker does not take part in debates.
Madam Speaker 11:45 a.m.
Yes, ask your question, ask your question instead of arguing with the Chair. Ask your question.
Papa Owusu Ankomah rose
Madam Speaker 11:45 a.m.
Yes, is it a question? Honourable -
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, paragraph (b) of the Answer of the Hon Minister on page 31 says that:
“The two delegations acknowledged that the Government of The Gambia was not directly or indirectly complici t in the deaths and disappearances of the Ghanaian nationals concerned ”
And in (c), too, it says:
“Both sides pledged to pursue, through all available means, the arrest and prosecution of all those involved in the deaths and disappearances of the Ghanaians concerned.”
My question is, did the report indicate the nationality of those who were involved in the murder? Was the report able to identify even one of those persons involved in the murder? Did the report even indicate those who were able to marshal resources, logistics within The
Madam Speaker 11:45 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member,
it is all right.
Hon Minister, please, answer the question. He has asked you a question.
Alhaji Mumuni 11:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the report indicated that what they found was that it was a scam operation and two individuals, one Captain Taylor. and then another individual whose name I have forgotten for the moment, but he happened to be a Gambian citizen -- were the two persons who contracted with these West African travellers among whom were the Ghanaians to convey them from Senegal to Europe.
They got them into a vessel and instead of sailing upwards, they rather came down to The Gambia; that they took them to an isolated beach and left them there. Subsequently, whatever happened, happened. The Fact-finding Panel was unable to say who exactly killed the Ghanaians or the other nationals or was accountable for the disappearances.
But clearly, they identified these two individuals as human traffickers who had lured these travellers to their fate. Captain Taylor is not a Gambian; the other
accomplice, he is a Gambian citizen but we were told that he is at large and they were unable to find him.
Madam Speaker 11:45 a.m.
Yes, one last question?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11:45 a.m.
Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 11:45 a.m.
We have a lot more Questions coming.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, did the report not indicate that upon the arrival of these persons along the beach, rumours having circulated that some dissidents were coming to overthrow The Gambian Government, the security agencies proceeded to that location? Did the report not indicate that?
Madam Speaker 11:45 a.m.
Yes, Hon Minister, we want facts.
Alhaji Mumuni 11:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the report never indicated this. On the contrary, the report said that the fact- finding team found that The Gambian Government or its agents were neither directly nor indirectly complicit in the murders or the disappearances; the report said so.
Madam Speaker 11:45 a.m.
Yes, now we move on to the next Question. We have so many Questions -
Mr Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister's Answer, as per paragraph 2, has provided and with your indulgence and that of the House, I quote:
“The previous Administration made efforts to get to the bottom of the tragic events that led to the loss of
Ghanaian lives in The Gambia. As a result of these efforts, a joint UN/ ECOWAS Fact-finding Panel was established on August 14, 2008 at the request of the Governments of Ghana and The Gambia to facilitate efforts by both Governments to bring about the pacific resolution of the issues referred to earlier, consistent with the principles of justice and respect for human rights and human dignity.”
Madam Speaker, when the National Democratic Congress (NDC) made the commitment in 2008, the joint UN- ECOWAS fact finding panel had been established; it was already in place. What the Hon Minister had told us ensues directly from the joint UN-ECOWAS fact finding panel which was established on August 14, 2008.
Madam Speaker, in the event, one would want to know what are the other efforts that the NDC Administration is vigorously pursuing in this matter with the view to unravelling the circumstances surrounding the death and disappearances of our nationals beyond or besides, what the previous Administration committed itself to and the answers of which he has provided us as directly attributable to that effort.
Alhaji Mumuni 11:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the
common saying is that there is absolutely no reason to re-invent the wheel.
Upon assuming office, the New Patriotic Party (NPP) had already put in place this fact-finding team; we accepted to work with the fact-finding team and we facilitated their work and collaborated with them. When they published their report, we further took steps to sit round the negotiation table with The Gambian authorities and mediated by the UN and ECOWAS, we participated in the process
Alhaji Mumuni 11:55 a.m.


and arrived at a conclusion.

There were difficulties along the way; His Excellency the President had to intervene and he was able to get the parties back to the negotiation table and eventually we were able to wrap up some understanding.

A particular issue that a lot of Ghanaians need to be aware of is the fact that there is this large bustling community in The Gambia called Ghana Town. They are Ghanaian nationals, some of them have been born in The Gambia. They live in The Gambia, they are about six thousand (6,000), according to the census information that we have. They maintain their roots in Ghana, there is a commuter bus service between Ghana Town and Accra and they regularly visit home.

Indeed, when this issue happened, the assumption was that the eight bodies that were found were citizens of Ghana Town; it turned out to be otherwise. They could not be identified. Outside of Ghana Town, we also found out that there are about four thousand (4,000) Ghanaians elsewhere in The Gambia. That means, a total of not less than ten thousand (10,000) Ghanaians.

Therefore, with that in the background and also our historic relations with The Gambia also in the background, we needed to approach these matters with very open minds and with clear intent to ensure that we do not in any way destabilize the very good relations between our country and The Gambia. These are very important considerations we must have in the background as we consider these issues.
Madam Speaker 11:55 a.m.
Hon Member, is
that not a hypothetical question?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, not at all. Particularly, he himself has told us that they have not
foreclosed the door and that they have agreed to follow up and I am quoting his very answer - “They also “agreed to follow up on any future leads in the case of those suspected missing.” So there is a likelihood -
Madam Speaker 11:55 a.m.
So that is the fact as of today? But to ask that should it happen that more people are found and so on, it is a hypothetical question. It is not?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister has been gracious enough to tell Ghanaians that The Gambian Administration has given out US$500,000 cash as their contribution to the burial and funeral rites of the deceased. As far as he is concerned, the number is six and he goes further to tell us that the disbursement will be effected to the families of the six.
At Another level, he is telling us that the investigations have not been foreclosed and possibly, some others may come out. And I am asking, if it does, what happens? Are we also to look up to another kind of contribution to the burial and funeral rites of those others that may turn up? Madam Speaker, that is a simple question -
Madam Speaker 11:55 a.m.
Can he answer this hypothetical question?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I believe, the Hon Minister nodding profusely, is minded to answer the question.
Madam Speaker 11:55 a.m.
We want to be fair to our Hon Ministers who come to give us facts and we are precluded from asking for hypothetical solutions. But I will put him to you, let him - Hon Minister, you are a Member of this House, you know all our rules -
Alhaji Mumuni 11:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
I think that in the eventuality that other Ghanaian bodies are found or discovered or other Ghanaian persons are found to have been unaccounted for, what the parties agreed to, simply, in the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU), is for us to re-open the issue and deal with those matters. So it is not closed.
With regard to the two bodies, we indicated that from the beginning, the fact-finding team found positively that six of the eight bodies were Ghanaians; the other two, they were unable to give their origin. But we have had reason to believe that even those other two.could also be Ghanaians and we are going to subject them to the DNA matching. If they turn out to be Ghanaians, clearly, they would be added to the six and we will proceed from there.
Madam Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Thank you. We move on to the next Question and then we dismiss the Hon Minister and thank him for coming to brief us. I think that is the only Question for you today.
Thank you for coming.
MINISTRY OF LOCAL 12:05 p.m.
GOVERNMENT AND RURAL 12:05 p.m.
DEVELOPMENT 12:05 p.m.
Minister for Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Joseph Y. Chireh) 12:05 p.m.
Madam Speaker, it is the vision of Government to ensure transparency, strengthen management and operations of the School Feeding Programme. In this connection, the implementation of the programme has been decentralised. Ownership of the Programme lies with the Metropolitan, Municipal and District Assemblies (MMDAs) and they have the prerogative of working with anyone they deem fit. In this regard, MMDAs can hire and fire caterers without recourse to the Ministry.
Madam Speaker, in the recent past, MMDAs have taken steps to regularize the appointment of caterers who were formerly engaged without contracts. This called for all caterers within the Programme to re-apply for the supply of catering services.
In the Ashanti Region in particular, during the regularization process, 30 of the old caterers refused to re-apply and therefore, could not continue to work for the Programme.
Mr Banda 12:05 p.m.
Madam Speaker, in the last paragraph of the Hon Minister's Answer, he said that and with your permission, I beg to quote:
“In the Ashanti Region in particular, during the regularization process, 30 of the old caterers refused to re-apply and therefore, could not continue to work for the Programme.”
Madam Speaker, the Answer the Hon Minister has given presupposes that those who applied were re-engaged, or maybe, some of them were re-engaged. Can he tell this Honourable House how many
Mr Banda 12:05 p.m.


of those old caterers re-applied and how many of them were re-engaged?
Mr Chireh 12:05 p.m.
Madam Speaker, I
Madam Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Order! Yes, your
next question. He says he wants time.
Mr Banda 12:05 p.m.
Madam Speaker, I know
that by the rules of this Honourable House, I cannot argue with the Hon Minister but my next question is this -- Is it the case that those caterers who were formerly engaged to work for the programme were engaged without contracts? If yes, how did they come to work or what procedure did they follow for their engagement before they started working for the Programme? If no -
Madam Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Three questions?
Let us have one at a time.
Mr Banda 12:05 p.m.
Madam Speaker, it is
all one question. And if no, what is the rationale for telling those on contract to re-apply?
Mr Chireh 12:05 p.m.
Madam Speaker, as I
indicated to you, there was a working document, a manual and when this project was initiated -- and you know that the programme was started in 2005. The District Implementation Committees were to be set up, the School Implementation Committees were also to be set up and they were the ones who should identify the caterers, interview them and appoint them.
This was not done. Some were given letters, some were told sometimes verbally. This is because when we asked
the Assemblies to undertake this exercise in line with the manual, they requested for this basic information. In many cases, they could not provide it.
So, what has happened is that we are going back to the source document as agreed by stakeholders and insisting that instead of somebody at the Secretariat or the Ministry giving a letter, it should be a proper contract between the Assemblies and the caterers.
Indeed, a model contract document was provided to the Assemblies to go through rigorously and follow that. That is what happened.
Mr Banda 12:05 p.m.
Madam Speaker, I know
that the MMDAs come directly under the purview and the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development. Now, the Hon Minister in his first paragraph has indicated that the MMDAs can hire and fire caterers without recourse to the Ministry. Can he tell this House, under what conditions a caterer can be fired?
Mr Chireh 12:05 p.m.
Madam Speaker, that statement is valid to the extent that the Assemblies, as we know them and in line with the decentralisation policy, can take certain decisions without reference to anybody. They have the power to do so.
Indeed, in line with the rule of law that we are all bound to obey and do in Ghana because we have a constitutional rule. In some of the cases, where the Assemblies did not or people accused them of not following procedure, they send them to court and that is what I would recommend to people.
For us to be effective and for decentralisation to be effective, if you think your rights have been violated, all
you need to do is to go to court and have it rectified but not to ask a sector Minister to nullify or to countermand the decisions of the Assembly. This will further our decentralisation effort.
Mr Samuel A. Akyea 12:15 p.m.
Madam Speaker, what I deduced from the Hon Minister's Answer, paragraph 2, is that there was a difference between contract by documentation and a contract by conduct. [Interruption.]
An Hon Member 12:15 p.m.
And he knows.
Mr Akyea 12:15 p.m.
And as a respected Lawyer, by his answers, is he endorsing the fact that insofar as the arrangements were not by documentation, they should be terminated?
Madam Speaker 12:15 p.m.
Did you get the question, Hon Minister?
Mr Chireh 12:15 p.m.
Madam Speaker, first and foremost, in matters like this, we need to be formal about them. That is, ensure that there is a reference point. If you are doing public business, it will be most inappropriate to be entering into contracts by word of mouth --orally, because if the evidence comes to be looked for, it would be your word against the person.
Number two, the conditions that were spelt out were clear. If the existing caterers performed satisfactorily, why not? We will consider them. But as I said, it was up to the interview panel at the district level to take these decisions. So, strictly speaking, I will not buy an idea that public officers can go into oral or verbal contracts even though the law recognises it; it is
inappropriate in public service.
Thank you.
Mr Albert Kan-Dapaah 12:15 p.m.
Madam Speaker, as the Hon Minister is aware, this is one issue that members of the New Patriotic Party (NPP) have very strong feeling and we believe the correct facts ought to be on record.
Madam Speaker, is the Hon Minister aware, that in most places, specifically in my constituency -- [Interruptions] I have just checked with my Hon Colleagues on my left and they have also confirmed that the caterers were simply summoned to the District or Municipal Assemblies and told that “you have been sacked”. There was no question of being asked to go and apply. Will he admit that that indeed, was the case and that they were not dismissed only because they refused to re-apply?
Madam Speaker 12:15 p.m.
Order!
Mr Chireh 12:15 p.m.
Madam Speaker, I would have agreed with the Hon Member who raised the issue but he also knows that he is talking from hearsay. I am not aware that this was what happened. Earlier, I alluded to the fact that if any person in this arrangement feels aggrieved, he should seek the appropriate - and in a number of cases, some of the Assemblies were taken to court and the rulings -- some of the Assemblies won and others lost. So, please, I am not aware that they just called people and said that they were sacked. I am not aware of that.
12.30p.m. -- [MR FIRST DEPUTY
Ms Grace Addo 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would like to know from the Hon Minister if he is aware that those caterers who were being sacked have still not been paid -- more
Ms Grace Addo 12:15 p.m.


especially my constituency.
Mr Chireh 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am not aware of the situation the Hon Member is talking about. But it is proper that anybody who has executed a contract to the satisfaction of who contracted him or her, should be compensated for the contract work. I am not aware and indeed, if there are any such issues, the Hon Member should let this be channelled through the Assemblies for the necessary action.
Mr Sampson Ahi 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I
do not come from the Ashanti Region. I am a Ghanaian. I want to find out from the Hon Minister whether during the regularization process, political affiliations were considered or opportunity was given to all Ghanaians to apply to be re-engaged.
Mr Chireh 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, indeed, the guidance we gave to all Assemblies was that it is open to all Ghanaians. Some people have their own perceptions. But in fact, it was open and we said that the existing caterers, if their performance and contracts are satisfactory, they should just go ahead and consider them. It was not based on any political consideration.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thought the question that was asked really was not the question that was answered. Because the Hon Member who asked the question wanted to know what criterion was applied to re-engage -- he used the word “re-engage” and re-engagement means those who were operating.
Mr Speaker -- [Interruptions] -- he says that he did not talk about criterion, the operative word is “re-engagement”; that was what the Hon Member said. And re-engagement refers to those of them who
were operating in the arena. Mr Speaker, that is it.
But further to that, the Hon Minister has indicated in his Answer, the first paragraph, last line and I would plead with you to indulge me to quote what the Hon
Minister himself has said 12:15 p.m.
“In this regard, MMDAs can hire and fire caterers without recourse to the Ministry.”
Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister is an apostle of decentralization and he knows that decentralization must also come with a degree of accountability. Who ultimately are the MMDA's accountable to?
Mr Chireh 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, thank you very much for this question. As I said to you, the Metropolitan, Municipal and District Assemblies (MMDA's) are answerable to the Assemblies and the people of whatever Assembly areas they superintend over.
Now, distinguished that from the oversight in terms of guidelines, the co- ordination that we at the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development may do on their behalf. For instance, we do so many things for them; if one of them is doing something, obviously, wrong -- against decency, against the law, that we can draw its attention to. But when the Assemblies take their decisions, they are, to be properly speaking, first, be dealt with within the Assembly and ultimately, in terms of accountability, to come to this House through the audit reports or whatever findings that they may have. So we are collectively responsible for what goes on in terms of every sector and not the Minister.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:25 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, does the Hon Minister agree with me that ultimate accountability is to the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, since if anything goes severely wrong, he as the Minister will be the one to answer any questions in this House? Does he accept this ultimate accountability? In any event, Mr Speaker, when he says that MMDAs are answerable to Assemblies, what does he mean?
Mr Chireh 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my Friend the Hon Minority Leader knows that in these discussions, we use terms very loosely. But what I want him to understand is that, yes, by our own Standing Orders, a Chief Executive cannot come here and answer. There are other agencies under the Ministry that I will answer questions for or the Ministry will answer questions for.
But I want us to deviate from the path of a super Minister and a super Ministry over 170 Assemblies. That cannot ensure decentralisation and effective decentralisation for that matter. Indeed, if we also do not individualise responsibility and if an event is occurring in say, Wa West District Assembly and you are holding somebody sitting in Accra responsible, that will be a negation of the principle.
As I said, we co-ordinate on behalf -- we do the things with them but we are not -- except where you have delegated functions from the Central Government. Otherwise, they have the authority by the Constitution and by Act 462 to do many of the things they do. So we cannot be held liable or accountable for those things.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
Last question.
Dr Anthony A. Osei 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in his Answer, the first paragraph, and with
your indulgence, I want to quote:
“Ownership of the Programme lies with the MMDAs and they have the prerogative of working with anyone they deem fit”.
Mr Speaker, the operative words are “anyone they deem fit”. Mr Speaker, is the Hon Minister saying that if they deem fit to only work with National Democratic Congress (NDC) foot soldiers, that will be proper?
Mr Chireh 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this question, unless he is saying that NDC foot soldiers -- and by the way, we do not have foot soldiers, we have cadres. [Interruptions.] We have party cadres. But so long as they are Ghanaians and qualify to be Ghanaians, why not? But we are not saying that it is for a particular class or party, it is for anybody who qualifies. And when I say “fit”, it means the person complies with all the known regulations, guidelines and the criteria. That is what I mean.
Mr Hackman Owusu-Agyemang 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was asking for a point of order because it is on record at the Appointments Committee and it can be referred to, that our distinguished Minister for Local Government and Rural Development said he had purged himself of all cadre activities and so, I do not know what he was talking about. But you will let it go, I think this is not for the record, but you did not let me challenge him at that time when he said that. But he is saved by the Speaker, so it is all right.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
Hon Members, you know that ordinarily, we have one hour for Question time, we have exceeded it. We have done about one and a half hours and we have a lot of Questions there. I want us to exhaust all
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.


the Questions, so I want to move to the next Question.

District Assemblies Common Fund (Releases)

Q. 523. Mr John Agyabeng asked the Minster for Local Government and Rural Development why only two quarters of the 2009 District Assemblies‘ Common Fund (DAGF) had been released.
Mr Joseph Y. Chireh 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, processes have been put in place by the Ministry in collaboration with the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning (MOFEP) to effect the outstanding payments in three tranches, and I am in consultation with the Minister for this to be done.
Mr Agyabeng 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would want to ask the Hon Minister to tell us the amount involved in the three quarters that was transferred.
Mr Chireh 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it was the third quarter money that was not given and that is known because of the calculation. But I do not have the figures here to give him because all the revenue agencies would have by that time -- and this is known. But I do not have the figure to give him.
Mr Agyabeng 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in the 2009 Budget, GH¢345 million was earmarked for the District Assemblies and only GH¢153 million constituting about 47 per cent was transferred and the Hon Minister is telling us that three-quarters were transferred.
I want the Hon Minister to know that all of us here including Mr Speaker are members of the District Assembly and
that last year only two quarters -- we are all members, only two quarters were transferred constituting only 47 per cent of the total amount earmarked. So, I want to ask the Hon Minister whether he believes that three quarters were transferred.
Mr Chireh 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, he has some information that I do not have, but what I can tell him is this, that whatever is put in the Budget as earmarked for the DACF will depend on the revenues that are collected by the agencies responsible for that. The indicative figure is also the one we consider in Parliament to distribute the Fund according to those who should get it including Members of Parliament. The amount per quarter will differ from quarter to quarter depending on the collection of the revenue.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Your last
supplementary question.
Mr Agyabeng 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon
Minister is telling me that I have some information he has not got. This is the Budget for 2010, and according to the Budget from His Excellency the President, page 28, he said:
“Out of the GH¢340.7 million only GH¢153 million was transferred.”
That was the Budget, so this is not the information that I have that he does not have. The Budget was read here, and as the Minister, he is aware. So that is why I am shocked that he was able to tell us we are all members of the District --Assemblies -- he was able to tell us that three quarters were transferred. How can GH¢153 representing 47 per cent be three quarters? And this is the Budget Statement, I am not saying it.
So, I want him to assure Hon Members
that as members of the District Assemblies -- 170 District Assemblies constitute Ghana, so what effort is he going to make so that the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning can come out with the arrears. This is because already the District Assemblies are facing a lot of problems.
They have a lot of debts on their neck and last year, only 47 per cent of the amount was transferred, and they are owing a lot of people. Nothing is happening at the district level. So, I want the Minister to assure us, what effort is he making in collaboration with the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning to make sure that all these arrears are paid?
Mr Chireh 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, he is referring to figures in the Budget and I further explained that those are indicative.
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Hon Dr Akoto Osei, do you have a point of order? Let him answer - the point is that the Hon Minister is responding to a question. If he finishes, you can frame the point of information that you have, in a supplementary form to ask a question of the Minister.
Mr Chireh 12:35 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am doing everything possible. I know what it means particularly for District Assemblies to be able to undertake their projects and meet their commitments. So, I already have met the Minister for Finance and Economic Planning twice on the matter and I am doing all, together with him, for us to fulfil this commitment.
Dr A.A. Osei 12:35 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I
sympathise very much with my Hon Colleague. He has been placed in a very uncomfortable situation. Mr Speaker, why do I say that?
I believe on June 9, 2010, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) agreed with our Government - [An Hon Member: Our Government agreed with them] - Our government agreed with the IMF under the directions of the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning to pay the arrears of the District Assemblies Common Fund in 2011 and 2012.
Mr Speaker, the amount involved is GH¢172 million as of December, 2009. This Agreement enabled the IMF to disburse money to Ghana. Now the Minister -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
So what
is your question, it is Question time.
Dr A.A. Osei 12:35 p.m.
My question is, how does the Minister reconcile his Answer with a valid Agreement that negates that very Answer? How can he reconcile that? This occurred only on June 9, 2010 -- [Interruptions.] - He is a member of the Government, it goes to Parliament.
Mr Speaker, this is a very serious thing. I discussed with him this matter earlier that they were going to be paying in three -- and I said this cannot be the case. You cannot go and agree, then they disburse - [Some Hon Members: Ask your question.] -- How do you reconcile these things?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
But in his
Answer, he said they were going to pay in three tranches without -
Dr A.A. Osei 12:35 p.m.
No, Mr Speaker, with
respect, the law -- he himself knows it
Dr A.A. Osei 12:35 p.m.


-- says that it has to be paid quarter in arrears. So if you are going to be paying in 2011, 2012 - I am not a lawyer -- but it appears to me that that will be in variation of the Act.

Mr. Speaker, I have seen this before, there is a precedence. When this happened in our time, we came to Parliament and sought approval. But here we have agreed and been given money and we are saying that it will be paid in three tranches. Mr Speaker, that is why I say, I sympathise with him. How does he reconcile it?
Mr Chireh 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, he is bringing a matter that is really not in this House. I am discussing with the Hon Minister and whatever information he has -- this is not the first time, we will come appropriately if the need arises.
In any case, the understanding that I have had with the Hon Minister is for the first quarter's money for this year, to also have a third of the third quarter of last year. This process he is talking about, it is because of the law that these were understood at the time with the Administrator. So whatever had been done was done in a way not to violate the law.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Hon Joe
Ghartey, this is supplementary.
Mr Joe Ghartey 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon
Minister has today told us, re-affirmed his belief in the rule of law. He has also told us his understanding of accountability and told us that accountability should lie where it is. Will he agree with me that being accountable for the Questions that he is answering, being the supervisory Ministry over the District Assemblies Common
which says three tranches, is totally wrong and he must take responsibility?
Does he agree with me that the responsibility is his, and that it is not sufficient for him to say that he is not aware? He is the Minister, he has told us three tranches. He is a Member of Parliament, and we are all Hon Members of Parliament, and we are aware that two tranches have been paid.
If it is two tranches, he must be aware because he is an Hon Member of Parliament. If it is two tranches that have been paid yet he has come here to tell us, having sworn various Oaths as a Minister, as a Member of Parliament, to mislead this Hon House, would he agree with me that he is accountable?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
You are
asking him to express an opinion, but Hon Minister?
Mr Chireh 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, you
have said it rightly. He wants me now to account for something that I do not understand him to be saying. What I am saying, the releases he knows. First, is he talking about releases to the Common Fund Administrator or releases based on advice to the District Assemblies? And if it is based on advice, these are also done in stages.
So, please, I will not mislead this House on account of anything. But if I do not have the information, I also do not have the information. But I have answered the Question based on the information I have.
rose rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Ordinarily, the person who asked the Question has exhausted his supplementary. Any other
person who wants to ask a supplementary question, has only one question. That is the practice of this House.
Dr A.A. Osei 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is not a question, I need your guidance.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
But because you are senior Members, let one of you ask the question, then we move on to the last Question. I will take one of you because you are senior Hon Members.
Dr A.A. Osei 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I need your guidance.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Pardon?
Dr A.A. Osei 12:35 p.m.
I need your guidance. It is not a question. I will not go there I need your guidance.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
But if it is not a question, then let me take somebody else.
Hon Member for Nhyiaeso (Dr Richard W. Anane).
Dr A.A. Osei 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, no, it is related to it, it is an important matter.
Dr Richard W. Anane 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, based on the understanding with IMF, Government agreed that some payments to the National Health Insurance Authority (NHIA) to the DACF and to other institutions were to be deferred to next year and the following year. But in the Hon Minister's Answer, he is saying that the DACF in 2009 released funds for three quarters to the District Assemblies with one quarter in arrears that would be paid in phases this year.
Mr Speaker, it is our understanding that it is based on the understanding the Government had with the IMF that these
payments have had to be deferred. Is the Hon Minister not contravening the understanding that the Government had with the IMF? Will he confirm this to the House?
Mr Chireh 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this was precisely the issue that my Hon Colleague from Kwahu Tafo, Ash Town - Now, the issue they are raising has nothing to do with the Question and I have answered the Question based on the Question they have asked me and my Answer is that this is the understanding I have, that we will pay this year. This other thing they are importing into the debate is not before this House. So, please, Mr Speaker, I have answered the Question to the best of my ability.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Hon Members, let us move on to the next Question; but I would take the last one from the Hon Minority Leader.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is not really a question but as per our Standing Orders, Order 66 (1), you are the sole judge of the admissibility of a question and if a question is asked and you ask the Minister to answer it, it would not lie in the mouth of the Minister to say, “I cannot answer”, because this question does not fall within the ambit of a Question that had been asked.
Mr Speaker, once you admit the question, the onus is on the Minister to attempt an answer. The onus is for him to attempt an answer; he cannot say that -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
I entirely agree with you. But he says you are his friend. [Laughter.]
Hon Members, let us move on to the next Question, time is against us.
Refuse Dumps in the Fund Administration, if two tranches have been paid, then this Answer of his,
Mr Joseph Y. Chireh 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Berekum Municipal Assembly has ten main refuse dumps and both internal and external measures have been taken to evacuate these refuse dumps. Internally, the Assembly has procured two earth moving machines, as well as converted an old refuse vehicle into a tipper truck for the purpose of refuse dumps evacuation, which is ongoing.
In this connection, a new dumping site has been acquired at Abi where evacuated refuse will be dumped, and as compensation to the chiefs and people, a three-unit classroom block has been put up in that community. The road to the final disposal site has also been graded and enough space created at the site to contain the evacuated refuse.
Mr Speaker, some external measures have also been taken to evacuate the refuse dumps and these include; the assistance of Zoomlion Ghana Limited was solicited to come out with a comprehensive quantity survey of all the refuse dumps and the total cost of evacuation. The survey revealed that the land coverage of the refuse dumps is about 12 acres with economic value of about three million Ghana cedis (GH¢
3,000,000.00).
Mr Agyenim-Boateng 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the
Hon Minister, whether any kind of environmental impact assessment was conducted before Abi was chosen as a dumping site.
Mr Chireh 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we have two problems with the Question. One of them is refuse dumps. People just dump things everywhere; so they need to be evacuated.
Then we have landfill sites or dump sites. For the dump sites or landfill sites, they must be properly done with the environmental impact assessment. I do not have information whether this was done and if it is the dumps that are haphazardly placed within the Assembly area, there could not have been any assessment on them; they are not supposed to be there and they are the ones that have to be evacuated. The final disposal site is where you must do the environmental impact assessment.
Mr Agyenim-Boateng 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that is exactly my question. I wanted to know from the Hon Minister whether an impact assessment was conducted; I am not interested in all the various explanations. I want to know whether an impact assessment was conducted before Abi, where he is talking about, was chosen as a dumping site.
Mr Chireh 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I actually answered it; but as you said, it was buried in the too many things that I had said. I said that I had no information whether that was done or not. But it is supposed to have been done, particularly the final disposal site which he is referring to.
Mr Agyenim-Boateng 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I take it that it was not done; but then if he says he does not know, I would expect that he furnishes us with that information later on. My next question is -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Your final supplementary question.
Mr Agyenim-Boateng 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, does the Hon Minister believe that a three-unit classroom block is adequate compensation or consideration for dumping refuse that he accepts that Zoom- lion survey estimated at GH¢3 million?
Does he think that providing the small community of Abi with a three-unit classroom block is enough compensation for dumping such a colossal amount of refuse, especially when he does not even know whether an environmental impact assessment was done in the community? I want to know whether he thinks it is adequate consideration for that damage.
Mr Chireh 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, there are statutory bodies that decide on value and compensation payments. But sometimes people go into informal arrangements with owners of land. I am not in the position to tell what adequacy it is.
Indeed, it is already an obligation of the Assembly to provide a classroom for the community. So it cannot be even a factor in terms of compensation. It is just that you may do something out of turn for them. But it is not to compensate them for the value of the land that we are talking about.

Markets in the Ayensuano Constituency

(Rehabilitation)

Q. 525. Mr Samuel Ayeh-Paye asked

the Minister for Local Government and Rural Development when the following markets in the Suhum-Kraboa-Coaltar District in the Eastern Region would be rehabilitated:

(i) Dorkrokyiwa

(ii) Teacher Mante

(iii) Amanase

(iv) Ayekokoaso

(v) Anum Apapam

(vi) Acheansa.
Mr Joseph Y. Chireh 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, at its last sitting earlier in June, 2010, the Assembly approved of an amount of thirty thousand Ghana cedis (GH¢30,000.00) out of the total estimated cost of sixty thousand Ghana cedis (GH¢60,000.00) for the rehabilitation of three markets at Dorkrokyiwa and Amanase in the Ayensuano Constituency and Akorabo in the Suhum Constituency. This will be financed by the Assembly's share of the District Assemblies Common Fund (DACF) for 2010.
However, the damage caused to the Teacher Mante market by a recent heavy rainstorm has been assessed by the Assembly's works department to be in the tune of ten thousand Ghana cedis (GH¢10,000) and rehabilitation works will commerce when funds are available.
Mr Speaker, rehabilitation or upgrading works on the other markets, that is, Ayekokoaso, Anum Apapam and Acheansa in the Ayensuano Constituency will be considered alongside similar works at the Suhum main and Amponsah markets.
Mr Ayeh-Paye 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the
Minister's Answer is saying that money from part of the Common Fund is going to be used to rehabilitate some of these markets. Mr Speaker, now that we know that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) conditionalities are not going to ensure regular release of the Common Fund to the District Assemblies, how can we therefore, get the money to rehabilitate
Mr Ayeh-Paye 12:55 p.m.


the market as he has put in his Answer?
Mr Chireh 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I maintain that the Assemblies would be given their share of the Common Fund and they will be used subsequently for this. The other information he is introducing into this debate or this Question, I am not aware of it, and I do not want it to be part of my Answer.
Mr Ayeh-Paye 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the term
“when funds are available” is now turning to be a common term in this House. I want to find out from the Hon Minister, what measures his outfit is putting in place to ensure that funds will be available for developmental activities in the country, and Ayensuano Constituency, and in particular, to support this rehabilitation project in Ayensuano Constituency.
Mr Chireh 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this is a responsibility for all of us, particularly those of us who are Members of Parliament to encourage Assemblies to be able to raise more revenue for themselves. Also, what the Ministry can do and which it has always been doing, is to look for sources of funding that will complement the efforts of the Assemblies.
We have been talking about developing markets which are sources of revenue also, and the Ministry of Trade and Industry (MOTI) and Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development (MLGRD) have been looking at the options, the type of markets that should be provided for different types of communities. And this is what will supplement what they do. But the actual responsibility for encouraging Assemblies should be to help us look at how the revenue mobilization is done and to support all efforts to raise more revenue. That is when the funds would be available in addition to the transfers.
He also knows that the District
Development Facil i ty which is a performance-based transfer from Central Government, using the development partners as partners in this business is an additional source that we give to the Assemblies to get their projects on. But it requires again all Assemblies to perform satisfactorily in order to pass the test to qualify for the District Development Facility.
Mr Ayeh-Paye 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Teacher Mante market was built by the previous Administration about five years ago, and we all know that rainstorm is a natural disaster. I want to find out from the Hon Minister whether all that the Assembly can do, is assessing the damage caused by the rainstorm.
Mr Chireh 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is now
all. In fact, the assessment shows the willingness of the Assembly to go further to do what is to be rehabilitated.
Mr. First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
Question No 526; it is constituency-specific.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker,
I know it is constituency-specific but the Minister has said that, at an earlier sitting in June, 2010, the Assembly approved of some amount and an assessment was done in early June, 2010. I just want to find out from him whether he does not consider the possibility that given the havoc that recent rains might have caused, the assessment itself may need to be re-visited because it may not be sufficient after the recent rainstorms.
Mr Chireh 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker. I think the suggestion is well in hand because even when they go to do any work on the assessment that was done, they will have to take into consideration any further
destruction or damage that would have been done. So, it will have to be re- assessed before any work can be done.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, finally, just to continue on the question that was raised by an earlier Hon Member when he said that the physiology “when funds are available” is really becoming perhaps, abuse in this House.
Mr Speaker, I noticed that the Hon Minister is not saying that work will commence if funds are available. He says when funds are available, work will commence. Can he tell us when it is intended that funds will be available, because the operative word is not “if” it is “when”?
Mr Chireh 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this grammar
that he is now introducing “if” and “when” can sometimes agree when we are talking about availability. So I am talking about - -- I do not even know whether his district has passed; many districts passed this year. If they get the District Development Fund which will soon be released, of course, it will be available.
There are processes but I can tell you that “when funds are available” or “if funds are available”, were introduced by a Friend of mine who is looking at me right now. I would not say it again.
Elevation of Kraboa-Coaltar to
District Status
Q.526. Mr Ayeh-Paye asked the Minister for Local Government and Rural Development when the Kraboa-Coaltar section of the Suhum-Kraboa-Coaltar District would be elevated to a full district status.
Mr Chireh 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Ghana Statistical Service will be conducting the national population census in 2010.
Mr Ayeh-Paye 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do agree with the Hon Minister that, that could be done but in the case of the Kraboa-Coaltar section of the Suhum-Kraboa-Coaltar District, it is a special situation. The situation in which we find ourselves is that, Kraboa-Coaltar is the constituency capital of Ayensuano.
Mr Speaker, to access Suhum, which happens to be the capital of the Suhum- Kraboa-Coaltar District, one ought to go through Owuram. Mr Speaker, Owuram is not part of the Suhum Kraboa-Coaltar District. It is part of Lower West Akim in Asamankese. If we want to access the district capital also from the northern end -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
Hon
Member, ask your question.
Mr Ayeh-Paye 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would
want the Hon Minister to find it a bit passionate with the situation -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
Under
the rules, you are not supposed to make a statement or address the House.
Mr Ayeh-Paye 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I want to know from the Hon Minister whether he is going to consider the inclusion of Owuram and Akwamu Amanfo which are part of Lower West Akim and Akuapem North respectively in the creation of the Suhum- Kraboa-Coaltar District.
Mr Chireh 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the creation of the district is governed by law. The last time that Assemblies were created was in
Mr Chireh 1:05 p.m.


2008. Under the Constitution and in the law, we have a period of about seven years before we can do so

Again, the Constitution specifies that it

should be after a census in which we are dealing with figures and there would be no argument about the things he is talking about. In his special case, indeed, many more of these cases have come up but we cannot violate the law in order to just satisfy one condition.

In my Answer, I also talked about the

realignment and part of the whole issue is that, when people do not agree with the realignment, it becomes very difficult for a district to be created. It is not the Minister or even the Electoral Commission that can go and agree on realignment. It is the various stakeholders, particularly, chiefs, landowners who will agree to this. So, he has the responsibility to make sure that people agree with him on that. But as far as the Government is concerned, it will only happen after the census is conducted.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
Thank you
very much, Hon Minister, for attending upon the House to answer Questions. We are grateful.
Hon Majority Leader, when we
programme Questions, try to take into account the interest of the Question to Hon Members. Today, we put The Gambia; we put School Feeding Programme; we put arrears of District Assemblies Common Fund and we have spent about two hours instead of the normal one hour for Question time. So, some of these issues should be taken into account in future, especially in relation to the business that we have today, and the fact that today, the Black Stars will be playing. So, you take all those factors into account.
Madam Speaker has admitted two Statements but in view of the time, I do not know what the Leaders will say. She has admitted two Statements; we have Papers to be laid; we have the Consideration Stage of the Mutual Legal Assistance Bill, 2009.
Mr Avoka 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in the first
place, we know that the Standing Orders provide one hour for Question time. It does not discriminate about the type of Questions. So the Chair would have to take note of that. We spent over one hour dealing with only one Question. That one is no more the Leadership's problem, it is with the greatest of respect, with the Chair. So while we take note, we appeal that the one presiding also takes note because there were only six Questions.
Sometimes, we have ten or more Questions and we take one hour or two hours. I think that we may have to go strictly by the provisions of the Standing Orders so that we can - [Interruption.] Yes, leaving the number of people who ask Questions - Some Questions are constituency-specific; an Hon Member does not come from that constituency and he asks three questions in addition to the Hon Member who asked the Question, asking supplementary questions.
These are uncalled for sometimes. Sometimes, Hon Members get up to give a lecture before they ask a question. It is left to the Chair to stop them. I think that there is a lot to come from the Chair in addition to the fact that the Leadership has a role to play. Having said that -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
Hon
Majority Leader, you know we must take the mood of the House into account to see how we conduct business. We have to take the mood of the House into account. So when Hon Members, especially senior Hon Members of the House want to ask questions, we must give them the due recognition.
Madam Speaker has admitted two Statements, so I will take those two Statements. The two are on the same subject matter, so what I do is that I will let the two Hon Members read their Statements, then I will take one comment from each side then we move to the next item.
STATEMENTS 1:05 p.m.
Mr David Tetteh Assumeng (NDC - Shai Osudoku) 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, a heavy rainfall on Sunday has caused severe havoc to lives and properties in the country, especially in the Greater Accra Region.
Mr Speaker, there have been conflicting reports on the number of lives that were lost. However, the Daily Graphic of yesterday put the figure at thirty-five (35).
Mr Speaker, the perennial flooding has been with us for some time now, without any solution on sight. It is, therefore, very important that the issue of climate change be taken seriously.
Mr Speaker, there must be an inter- sectorial meeting of all relevant bodies like the Ministries of Water Resources, Works and Housing, Local Government and Rural Development, Environment, Science and Technology, Finance and Economic Planning, Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology (KNUST), among others, to find a lasting solution to the problem.
Mr Speaker, our engineers must be brought on board to address this perennial problem. The Town and Country Planning Department and the National Disaster Management Organization (NADMO)
must be strengthened to enforce all the legislations on building procedures.
Mr Speaker, commuters from the Western Region to Accra were also not spared as most river banks were overflowed, forcing many to abort their journeys.
Mr Speaker, there is the need to free all water ways of all illegal structures to avert future occurrences without any politicizations. Mr Speaker, with your permission, I want to repeat this sentence, that there is the need to free all water ways of all illegal structures to avert future occurrances without any politicization.
Mr Speaker, we express our sincere condolences to all the bereaved families and hope that some relief packages could be provided to the affected persons.
Thank you Mr Speaker, for the opportunity.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
The next Statement on the same subject matter, admitted by Madam Speaker, is in the name of the Hon Member for Agona West.

Flooding in the Agona West District
Mr Samuel K. Obodai (NPP - Agona West) 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the floor to make a Statement on the heavy rainfall that fell on the 20th of June,
2010. 8
A l t h o u g h , a c c o r d i n g t o t h e Meteorological Service Department, it was nowhere near the 313 mm registered last year at Kaneshie, the rains caused havoc in several areas in the country, with
Mrs Irene Naa Torshie Addo (NPP - Tema West) 1:15 p.m.
Thank you Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to this Statement on the floor. I thank the
Hon Colleagues for making these able Statements.
I wish to sympathize with the victims who lost their families in the floods and to stress and buttress the point already made, that all bodies, all groups, all departments, all political arenas must come together to solve this problem and to find a lasting solution to this problem.
However, we must differentiate in solving this problem between areas that need to desilt their drains, areas where we need to erect and construct more drains and gutters and areas where we need to pull down structures that are in water ways.
In Tema, the situation reported, I believe, was very bad. Luckily and by the grace of God, it was not in the Tema West Constituency, it was more of the Tema East, Kpone-Katamanso, and my neighbour Ashaiman and my heart goes out to them. In solving this problem, we should try not to mix oranges with mangoes and sell them all in one basket as if they cost one price.
If you recall, it was reported on air last week, that in my constituency, there were demolitions at Klagon. The reason for the
-- 1:15 p.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Hon Member, the rules of the House are clear; you should not provoke debate.
Mrs Addo 1:15 p.m.
I will not, Sir, I will not. I will just make a statement about floods. The reason for the demolition which caused so much havoc on air has been assessed and has come out as not because they were in the waterway but because the land belonged to Government and there were encroachments. I wish to
Mr Joe K. Gidisu 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Colleague, I heard her on air referring to the reasons -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Hon Member, if it is about what happened on air, that is different -
Mr J.K. Gidisu 1:15 p.m.
-- and she is still
repeating it on the floor of the House. The point is that, the demolition was not because it was Government land but because it is part of RAMSAR watershed lands which had to be protected. And she is aware that it is not under the guise of Government land that the place was being demolished. I live at Klagon and that is the situation. Unlike her who transits there, I live at Klagon.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Hon Members, this is not a debate. The rules are clear, you take comments briefly on Statements made. As much as possible, let us limit ourselves to the Statements that have been made by the two Hon Members of this House and let us not go into other extraneous matters. Otherwise, I will use my discretion in the matter.
Hon Member, kindly conclude. Brief comments.
Mrs Addo 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I wish to
stress again that I do not know what reasons the Hon Minister has but what I have from my Assembly is that, as he said, one side is the RAMSAR site but the land that is being demolished is Government land, that is it.
All I want to say is that, in our bid and
quest in solving this flood issue, we need to have, as in the words of the now ruling NDC, “a human face”. It is important that
Mrs Addo 1:15 p.m.


we sensitize and educate our people on the need to have these things pulled down if they have to.

We cannot get up one day, put up a poster and three days after, demolish their buildings. Where were we -- all of us as politicians and all the Assemblies that we belong to -- where were we when 216 houses were coming up? Let us collectively educate our people, let us do what is right when it has to be done. We cannot wait after twenty years, twenty good years when people have built 216 houses and then pull them down under the guise that it is for Government.

Please, let us, if we believe that in the wisdom of what is happening, it really has to do with the floods, nobody wants to see their constituents dying. Everybody wants the best. I want to stress here and now that the situation of demolition where you have over a hundred armed men, shooting three hundred bullets, as happened in Klagon, can never be the situation.
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, do you have a point?
Mr Avoka 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Member is misleading the House and she is out of order. We are contributing to a harmless Statement about floods in the country, particularly in the Central and Greater Accra Regions. She is spending all her time talking about demolition; the floods are not caused by the demolition exercise. She is out of order - [Interruption] - and she should be brought to order. She is misleading the House and she is provoking debate.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon
Member, the two Statements were so beautiful, they did not provoke debate and I do not want to encourage any debate in this matter. So kindly conclude; your last sentence.
Mrs Addo 1:25 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I believe that the demolitions are part of the ways that we are using to relieve the waterways. That is why I am saying that while I agree that it has to be done when it has to be done, all I am asking for is that, we come together, educate and sensitize our people enough so that they do not think that we are being wicked. At least, for now, the people of Klagon believe that politicians are being wicked and that is the point I have been making on air all the time --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon Member, what has -
Mrs Addo 1:25 p.m.
Thank you very much - [Hear! Hear!] - Thank you, Mr Speaker. And I hope that the House sympathizes with my victims whose houses have been broken and are in hospitals.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon Members, I have sent a signal that I do not want this Statement to provoke debate and I want to repeat it. In view of that, I am taking only one comment and then I close the chapter - Hon Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing -
Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing (Mr Alban S. K. Bagbin) (MP) 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to thank the makers of the Statements for bringing this opportunity to us to share some information as to the flood situation in the country, particularly with reference to the areas that have been mentioned in the Statements.
Mr Speaker, I had to struggle yesterday
to restrain myself from shedding tears when I visited some of the affected areas. Government has already taken action in the matter and therefore, the Statements are most welcome. But as I speak now, we already have people on the ground both in Accra and at Swedru, particularly in Swedru to restore light. This is because Swedru is completely disconnected, there is no electricity, there is no good drinking water and most of the fine buildings in Swedru town have all collapsed.
Schools and other commercial centres have all been carried away by the floods. So, it is a very serious matter and Government is taking a very serious view of it and quick action is being deployed. So we have people on the ground already working in Swedru.
In Accra here, you know the Korle Lagoon was completely overrun because of the flood water - not just because of the rain on Sunday, but because of the continuous downpour for about four days. The Sunday rain actually was not that heavy but the continuous downpour has made the ground saturated.
At the Sakumono Lagoon, we have about four streams entering into the Lagoon. And because of the wind and the pounding by the rain, a lot of debris and collapsed structures were carried to the Lagoon, thereby shutting out the culverts that give or receive the water into the sea. So we have the lagoon now completely overflooded.
rose
Mr Bagbin 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, so we have to prepare ourselves and I think it is important to inform our people to gear themselves and get ready to assist Government to be able to contain the situation. The National Disaster Management Organization (NADMO) immediately mobilized and went to site -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon Member, do you have a point of order?
Mr Ofosu 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity.
Mr Speaker, I do not know, I think most of the statements that are being made by the Hon Minister are rather misleading. It is not a contribution; it is rather perhaps, a post-mortem of what has happened.
Mr Speaker, we have just been given copies of this document in which NADMO launched their preparedness, NADMO launches national floods -
Mr Ofosu 1:25 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I am just referring you to paragraph 2 of the document, on page 2 -- the areas that were identified. Statistics on the likely incidence of flooding in 2010 will be in the Ashanti Region, Volta Region, Eastern, Western, Northern and Upper West Regions - they did not even indicate Accra - [Laughter] - when they were launching their preparedness -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon Member -
Mr Ofosu 1:25 p.m.
Their estimates are there; they never even mentioned Accra. The only thing that Government is prepared to do -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon
Mr Bagbin 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my good Friend just prepared his questions and answered them himself. I never referred to NADMO forecasting. I talked about Meteorological Services Department and I am also talking about the response of NADMO to the current flood situation, not what they wrote some time ago as to what will happen this year.
Mr Speaker, as I said, NADMO is on the ground now trying to ease up and relieve the pain and anguish of the people who are victims of the flood. We were together with His Excellency the President, my Colleague the Hon Minister for Roads and Highways and the Hon Minister for Local Government and Rural Development together with the NADMO officials and we toured the various areas affected and tried sharing a few things and a few ideas with them.
Mr Speaker, when we got to Swedru, it was really a very sad scene. Swedru is a shadow of itself now and really, it is a national disaster I want to appeal to other agencies to come to assist and restore the completely demolished and collapsed Swedru town.
It is a pity even though Government had planned and, in fact had awarded a lot of contracts for the draining and desilting of our drains and waterways, that is still not sufficient. I think we need, as a country, to be given more resources for us to be able to plan and create some space for water that is unwanted to get to the sea.

So Hon Members should be assured that some action is being taken and we want more Hon Members of Parliament to get involved. This is because education is more acceptable, it is more effective when it comes, particularly, from both sides of the political divide and we would want to call on Hon Members to assist us pass on the message.

It is not an issue now of the demolition.

Even though that has been raised and some people thought that because some of the debris were not collected, the flood water managed to carry all away and that is what has led to the closure of the culvert at the Sakumono Lagoon.

So, Mr Speaker, I think we may have to

come another day to give a comprehensive Statement on the situation on the ground and the efforts that the Ministry, together with other agencies are taking to be able to contain the situation. This year, we are told that the rains are going to be heavy and therefore, we need to start making hay while the sun shines.

I thank Mr Speaker for the opportunity.

Minority Leader (Mr Osei Kyei-

Mensah-Bonsu): Mr Speaker, I thought you were going to give us some latitude before calling the Hon Minister to - This is because these are very serious events and I thought that, maybe, if you had allowed a couple of Hon Members to speak before allowing the Hon Minister, I believe, we would have done justice to -

But I recognise the way the Hon Minister responsible for Water Resources, Works and Housing concluded when he said that, it may become necessary for him to come back to this House with a fuller - [Interruption.] We would insist that it is necessary. The Hon Member for Sekondi, that is what he said.

Mr Speaker, this is a real national emergency. We recognise the fact that it is not possible to make a good forecast of these events such that as a nation, we would be prepared for any such eventuality and when such events happen, they should not be politicised.

I remember in 2001 when these events happened and bridges collapsed, the bridge close to the house of the Hon Member for New Juaben North, Mr Owusu-Agyemang collapsed and those of us who were trapped behind, found it difficult to connect to Accra that very morning --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Do you
live around that area?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:35 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, the entire Accra is not prohibited to anybody, so you can go to any place as and when it becomes necessary. But the point being made -
Mr Speaker, just to tie it in with what happened at the Accra Sports Stadium and tragic as the situation was, people wanted to politicise it and pointing accusing fingers at the administration at the time. As I have said, these are natural catastrophes.
A few months ago, the Meteorological Services Department put forth some information that the nation was going to be in some serious problem as far as rainfall was concerned this year. Today, we have abundance of it, over-abundance of it, which is what is causing this problem.
Mr Speaker, the point I want to make is that, those people who at the time, nine
years ago, were saying that Government ought to be held liable for what happened in 2001, should be bowing down their heads in shame. These are not matters that a government should be held liable for.
As a nation, what we need is a sustained developmental agenda. We do not have effective collaboration between the three key Ministries of Water Resources, Works and Housing, Local Government and Rural Development and even Roads and Highways, which is why when roads are being constructed, sometimes, the drains are left to the Hydrology Department of Water Resources, Works and Housing; other times, the Ministry itself does the construction or contracts out the construction.
Specifications are not uniform, so you would find a situation where upstream, the dimensions of a drain are very big; downstream where it should be bigger, it gets smaller. How do you intend to control flooding in such situations?
Mr Speaker, was it last two weeks when the Hon Minister responsible for Water Resources, Works and Housing came to this House to respond to Questions that had been filed? I remember clearly, he was bold in stating that some measures were underway and he expected that this year there would not be any flooding.
Today, it happened. I am not holding the Hon Minister responsible because this is not something that he could have predicted. If he could have predicted it and had said outright that there was not going to be any flooding, then perhaps, we should be holding him accountable and telling him to resign. But we know that this is not something that we can hold hin personally responsible for.
In any event, the projects and programmes that he alluded to are projects and programmes that were started earlier, which have not as of yet been completed.
Dr A.A. Osei 1:35 p.m.
On a point of order. Mr Speaker, I just want to plead with my Hon Leader. He is providing so rich amount of information but the House is a bit empty. Since the Hon Minister is coming back, I would plead with him, if he can wait till that time so that the rest of the Hon Members of this House can receive such rich information that he is providing.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
I share your sentiments, Hon Akoto Osei.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I know that part of the intervention is really attributable to what you are wearing on your neck and, of course, he is also minded to go and watch the critical football match between Ghana and Germany.
Mr Speaker, as I said, I would want to spare us a long discourse. But I am worried and I thought that if at a particular place, like Ashaiman, we had more than 11 lives perishing, at Swedru, we are told, again, another 11, could we not have a situation where in these isolated places where the effect of flooding was
so negative and so hard- hitting -- could we not have a situation where these local areas, communities, a sort of state of emergency would be imposed so that we have the recourse of sending contingency operations and rescue measures to such places?

Yesterday, we heard that ensuing from the floods so many people are being electrocuted at Ashaiman and Swedru. Those of them who are already displaced, so I want to bring it to the attention of His Excellency the President that if it is possible to consider this so that we have his consented rescue mission for these two communities in particular.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Majority Leader (Mr Clestus A. Avoka) 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, as the mood of the House suggests, I think that, and taking on board the concerns expressed by the Hon Members who made the Statements and then the contributions on the floor, I think there are a lot of grey areas that we have to address as a country.
So I would want to suggest humbly, that in view of the fact that even as of now, as a country, we are not certain about the number of people who died or lost their lives, we are not too sure about how many parts of the country have been actually affected by this havoc.
I want to plead that the Hon Minister for the Interior, as a result of the role of NADMO, the Ministries of Water Resources, Works and Housing and Local Government and Rural Development, team up and within the next week or two, come and make a comprehensive Statement on the floor of this House. This is to enable us know exactly what happened and the road map as to how we can address and take on board the issue

of this crisis in the near future rather than continue to bemoan the state of affairs in this august House.

So let us task the relevant stakeholders, the Ministries, Departments and Agencies (MDA's) so that truly, they will come to address the issue.
Mr Chireh 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am rising for proper guidance from you in respect of the suggestion made by the Leader of the House. I would want him to be specific that the Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing should make the Statement with inputs from the Minister of the Interior, and this time, I will add the Minister for Roads and Highways.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Hon
Members, I think that this is a matter we should all leave to the Leadership of the House, because every year, we come here and make Statements and go. Another year comes, the thing happens again. It is time for us now as a House, together with the relevant Ministries that are being mentioned, to put something in place to find a lasting solution to this matter. Because we come to the floor and make Statements, we make comments, and go away, and the floods come again.
But the good news from both sides of the House, listening to them is that, because we have all experienced Government and Opposition, we are now saying that it should not be politicized. This is good news for this country. I think that we should find a way of putting in place a certain system.
So, Hon Majority Leader, would you do the necessary consultations with your Hon Colleagues opposite and the relevant Ministries to see how best we can handle this issue around this time?
Mr Avoka 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not
think the Leadership needs to meet on this matter again. I have suggested that the relevant Ministers or Ministries in charge of this exercise can come together and find out who should play the lead role and come and make the Statement with their support or their inputs, unless, Mr Speaker, you want to give more directives that this Minister should lead the exercise. But I thought that they on their own, after they have met with their technical men, one of them would lead the crusade in making a Statement in this House. I thought that we should --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
How
binding would a Statement be?
Mr Avoka 1:45 p.m.
Not just a Statement; I
said a road map as to how we can correct or address the issue of perennial floods in the country.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Very well.
Hon Minister for Water Resource, Works and Housing?
Mr Bagbin 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just want to correct the impression that we have moved forward. The areas that used to be flooded, that is, the centre of Accra are not those that are being flooded today. So areas that we have actually worked on are not now getting these kinds of disasters any longer. It is new areas that we are now being compelled to move to and it is as a result of some of our behaviours and attitude and we need to work towards it together.
We also know about the issue of budgetary constraints. This year, the amount that is being spent on flood control is GH¢3.42 million, that definitely, is woefully inadequate looking at this.
Mr Kobina T. Hammond 1:45 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, there is something which has been on my mind all along and the Hon Minister mentioned it and I thought this House must make it clear so that those responsible might sort it out once and for all.
Mr Speaker, there is this thing going

You see, they have not travelled before -- United States US dollars, we have Jamaican dollars, we have Australian dollars, we have Canadian dollars and we have so many dollars. So what is the Hon Member talking about? Ghana is the only country with cedis, so why do we go about with “Ghana cedis, Ghana cedis”?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Hon K. T. Hammond, you are out of order.
Mr Hammond 1:45 p.m.
I am within order,
Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Hon K.
T. Hammond, on this occasion, you are completely out of order.
Mr W. O. Boafo 1:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would
like to crave your indulgence to differ a bit from the Hon Majority Leader. Mr Speaker, this is the House of Parliament and we have our own supremacy, we have to, at least, work for people to appreciate that we are on our own, to some extent.
I believe what has happened now, instead of asking the Executive to prepare something for us to come and read to us in this House, we have a select committee in- charge of these matters. I believe that we should rather charge the select committee to invite the Hon Minister to appear before it to have enough time, not one hour, not two hours, it may be days to investigate this matter as to what had happened and what will be the way forward.
The select committee should submit a report to this House for debate and make our own proposals.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Hon
Minority Leader and the Majority Leader -- on this matter.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:45 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, ordinarily, I would not disagree with the position taken by the Hon Member for Akropong. Except that as we have informed ourselves, this is a national tragedy, it is an emergency situation and by what the Hon Ministers may come to inform this House and by extension, the nation -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
Hon Members, having regard to the state of business of the House, I direct that Sitting
be held outside the prescribed period, in line with Standing Order 40 (3).
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:55 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, so I think that, for this occasion, just to give some assurance to our people, we may allow the Hon Ministers to come with the relevant information. If they come and this House is not satisfied with what information or Statement they put out there, then we can ask the relevant committees to summon them to respond to issues that they may not have articulated when they had the opportunity to be in the House.
So time is not on our side, and because our people need some assurances, I believe that for this time, we may have to allow the Hon Ministers to come with this information.

But further to that, Mr Speaker, I believe because time is not on our side and also as the Hon Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing has alluded to, we are given the impression that the rains may continue to fall, may we put some time line on their coming to this House to make the presentation?. Today is Wednesday and we could say that between today and a week from now, that is next week Wednesday, they ought to appear before this House with a Statement.

Alhaji Sumani Abukari (NDC -

Tamale North): Mr Speaker, when we were naming the Ministries, we conveniently forgot the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning, and that will be the backbone behind any rescue missions that we have.

Mr Speaker, we were all in this House when the budget of the National Disaster
An Hon Member 1:55 p.m.
Are you the
President? Sit down there.
Alhaji Abukari 1:55 p.m.
We are suggesting

Mr Speaker, we should say the Ministries of Water Resources, Works and Housing, Finance and Economic Planning, Roads and Highways, Local Government and Rural Development and Environment, Science and Technology and Interior.

In fact, I will dare say Ministry of Defence, because we saw the role they played at Ashaiman when these things happened. They are always involved, NADMO always invites them to come and assist them. These teams have to come together, take the decisions and make sure that they properly resource the areas that are concerned -- when it comes to these disasters, like Hydrological Department, NADMO, Ministry of Water Resources, Works and Housing to properly finance them so that they can undertake permanent structures that will go to minimise, at least, the floods when the rains come falling.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
Hon
Member, we are not talking about the Statement again. We are talking about how we should programme the relevant Ministry to come to this House and brief us, that is where we are on this matter. So that for once, we handle the issue this year different from the previous years.
The Hon Member for Akropong (Mr William O. Boafo) brought an idea, the Hon Minority Leader also brought an idea, we are also about to hear from the Hon Majority Leader, then we take it from there.
Alhaji Abukari 1:55 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
But you
agree that some Ministries should also be involved?
Alhaji Abukari 1:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I agree.
I am only sounding a word of caution here, that it is not just business as usual; let us plan and plan ahead. Our problem is that we do not plan ahead, we plan to meet the immediate problem, and a year after, when there is a bigger problem, then we get confused. Let us plan and plan ahead.
Mr Bagbin 1:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, just to clear this wrong impression. The plans are there; it is the funding that is the problem. But even that, as we speak, Brazil, China, India, United States (US), they are flooded. In those places, they are even worse than in Ghana; thousands of lives cannot be accounted for. So, as for the planning, it is there but where is the money to implement?
In fact, he referred to the statement of my engineer on air yesterday. That engineer was talking about the Sakumono Lagoon outpouring, which was constructed initially in the 1960s. But you know, the engineering aspect there is to make sure that they preserve the RAMSAR sites so that you do not drain all the water into the sea and that is how it is done. But because of the floods, the second construction was done in 1996 after the 1996 floods, to make sure that when the water rises above some limit, it can flow into the sea; that is why they added the four other larger culverts.
So, the engineering there is to preserve the RAMSAR site. If they want to drain all the water, we can do it but that will be killing the natural habitat of our birds and I think that is why he was explaining it that way. It is not that there are no plans and that it cannot be executed.
But it is true that I want the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning to be part of our deliberation so that when they are budgeting, they will be in a position to accept whatever proposals we make for Parliament to deliberate on.
Thank you very much.
Mr Avoka 1:55 p.m.
Finally, Mr Speaker, on this matter, as far as programming the Hon Ministers to appear before the august House is concerned, let me indicate that the Business Committee will meet tomorrow morning. So, when it meets,
we will, in consultation with them, find out which day next week will be suitable for them to make an input. And let them have it at the back of their minds that at least, they also need have their technical men meet and discuss this issue before they present a comprehensive roadmap for us to discuss.
Now, having regard to the intervention
made by the Hon Member for Akropong (Mr Boafo), if the Hon Ministers make a Statement here and there are some issues that need further investigation or attention, Mr Speaker may wish to refer that to the appropriate committee for them to delve into and investigate further or bring some more information for us to look at without prejudice to that one.
So the Hon Ministers can bring the Statement, it can be referred to the appropriate committee or committees for them to look at and then do some in-depth studies, if we so wish.
I want to caution that, if we involve many Ministries in this matter -- the practice or experience is that, when you have too many sectors involved, you hardly get results. So, involving the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning is fine; somebody can say, let us also involve the Ministry of Women and Children's Affairs because when there is a flood, it is women and children who suffer most. Somebody can say we should involve, let us say in the Ministry of - all types of things - Attorney-General`s Department because at the end of it you have to make a legislation.
I do not think that is the essence. If we limit ourselves to NADMO under the Ministry of the Interior, Ministry of Water Resources, Works and Housing,
Ministry of Roads and Highways and then Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development --
We do not even need to involve the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning because it is a matter of principle. The Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning is not supposed to decide what is appropriate and what is not appropriate. We as a body and as a Government, will decide that we are doing this project, Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning look for money for it. They do not need to be part of the technical team before they appreciate that they need to look for money for it. I do not think we should involve them.
Then we have to involve the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning in everything that we do. But I am just saying that if we involve too many MDAs, at the end of the day, they will dilute the report, they might even delay the proceedings and the rest of them. But if it is the wisdom of this House that they should still participate, I have no objection. It is just from experience that I am making this caution.
So, the summary, Mr Speaker, is that, the Business Committee will programme the Minister for next week and then having made the Statement, you may wish to refer the discussion to the appropriate committee for them to look at.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, just a minor addition to what the Majority Leader said. The Business Committee is meeting tomorrow and the Report would be laid in the House on Friday, then it would be approved of on Friday. That is when you can get in touch with the Ministers, which is why we have been saying, if we agree that between now and Wednesday, then leaving
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:05 p.m.


here they themselves would know that the programme would be between, maybe, Friday and Wednesday for them to come to this House.

I also agree with him that the Ministers to be brought here or to do the consultation may have to be limited. However, Mr Speaker, I tend to agree with the wisdom in the intervention of the Hon Sumani Abukari because the Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing himself was talking about inadequate funding.

Mr Speaker, we do know that as per our rules, if you include the Minister for Finance and Economic Planning and then the matter then relates or hinges on paucity of funding, it is only the Finance Committee which is allowed. Mr Speaker, I may want to quote from Standing Order

170:

“Whenever the Committee on Finance is satisfied that there has arisen an urgent or unforeseen need for expenditure for which no other provision exists it shall authorise advances from the Contingency Fund to meet the need and report to Parliament.”

So it is only the Committee of Finance that is empowered so to do. If the matter is really on funding, then of course, we need the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning to be with them, and if it is an emergency, then the Committee could then offer the authorisations on behalf of Parliament pending further explanation because as we are told, a principal matter is funding. So I pray that we allow or we concede to the issue raised by the Hon Member.
Dr A.A. Osei 2:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is a point of information. As much as I agree with the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning being there, I just want to remind
us that as of today this body has not set up any contingency fund as defined by the Constitution. So it would not matter if we are looking for money from there. But it could be that, this would be a way for us to begin to think about setting it up.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:05 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, the Hon Minister raised this matter the other day when I brought it and I thought that with this, as a nation, as a Parliament, we should confront it because we cannot anticipate what may happen tomorrow and the day after. And what happens, if what ensues becomes more bizarre than what we have already witnessed? So it is important for us as a House to confront this matter.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
Hon
Members, thank you very much. That brings us to the end of Statements.
The Business Committee should liaise with the relevant Ministry and get us a date for them to come and give us a comprehensive briefing.
Hon Members, at the Commencement of Public Business - Laying of Papers - Item 5 on the Order Paper. (5) (a), yes, Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Avoka 2:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, (5) (a), I want to seek permission from Mr Speaker and then my Colleagues, to allow the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning to lay the Paper on behalf of the substantive Minister who is not available. He is outside the country now.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, is he laying a Paper because -
Mr Avoka 2:05 p.m.
No, he is going to withdraw the earlier Paper laid.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
Very well, Hon Deputy Minister for Finance
and Economic Planning?
PAPERS 2:05 p.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
Very
well, accordingly withdrawn and then the referral also to the Finance Committee of that document also withdrawn.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not have anything against it but I thought that if a document is laid in the House, it becomes the property of this House. The application was made to you subject to the indulgence of the House and Mr Speaker did not raise the matter with the House - [Laughter] - and he went ahead and said that “accordingly withdrawn”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
Hon

So there is no - I tried to look at it. They have made provision for the withdrawal of Bills, withdrawal of motions, but when it comes to withdrawal of Papers, there is a problem. So this is what we have to take on board when we come to look at our Standing Orders.

Hon Members, I know you are not opposed to it, otherwise, you would have been on your feet even long before the Deputy Minister finished making his submission.

Hon Members, so now that it has been withdrawn, we now move to the Laying of Papers. So (5) (a)?

By the Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning (Mr Seth Terkpeh) (on behalf of the Minister for Finance and Economic Planning) -

Supplier 's Credit Financing A g r e e m e n t b e t w e e n t h e Government of Ghana and STX Engineering and Construction Ghana Limited for an amount of US$1,525,443,468.00 for the construction of 30,000 units of houses under the Security Services Housing Project.

Referred to the Finance Committee.
Mr David T. Assumeng 2:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thought we could as usual make it a joint committee so that we could discuss it as early as possible?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
Hon Members, this is basically a financial matter and I want to refer it only to the Finance Committee for consideration and report. Even though I know that you benefited from the Korean and Dubai trips -- [Laughter] - on this facility that is about - This one is a financial arrangement and I will limit it to the Finance Committee for consideration and report.
By the Chairman of the Committee -
Report of the Committee on Roads and Transport on the International Convention on Maritime Search and Rescue, 1979, as amended by
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.


Resolution MSC. 70 (69) and MSC.

155 (78), 2006.

By the Chairman of the Committee -

Report of the Committee on Local Government and Rural Development on the District Assembly Elections (Amendment) Bill, 2010.

By the Chairman of the Committee -- Report of the Finance Committee on the Credit Agreement between the Government of Ghana and BNP Paribas, United Kingdom Branch, for an amount of €17,687,058.51 for the supply, installation and operat ion of Vessel Traff ic Management Information System (VTMIS) for coastal surveillance in Ghana.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
Yes, Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Avoka 2:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in view of the programme we have ahead of us this afternoon and evening and the general mood in the House, I want to thank Hon Members for the work they have done today. Then I beg to move, that the House should now be adjourned until tomorrow morning at 10.00 o'clock.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:15 p.m.
It has passed 2.00 o'clock and the adjournment is -- Normally, I would like to hear from Leaders before I do the adjournment.
Hon Minority Leader?
Mr Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:15 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I recognise the programme ahead of us which the Hon Majority Leader has -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:15 p.m.
I am very happy that you have also recognised it.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:15 p.m.
But may I urge, Mr Speaker, that since the Hon Majority Leader failed to describe the programme in annotated diagrams, I would not also so describe it. But except to plead that before we rise, each one of us says a silent prayer for the people representing us this afternoon.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:15 p.m.
Are we going to do it on the floor or we should go and do it individually?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:15 p.m.
That is why I said, “a silent prayer”; it is not to be recited.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:15 p.m.
I know of a Parliament where the prayer is a silent one. So the Speaker gets into the Chamber and calls for a silent prayer or meditation. So one says a silent prayer for one minute and then the Speaker sits down and everybody sits down.
Mr Abdul-Rashid Pelpuo 2:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that it is an opportunity to make a correction that Muslims do not pray through Mohammed at all. We pray direct to Allah.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:15 p.m.
Sorry, but he is one of your prophet?
Thanks for the correction.
ADJOURNMENT 2:15 p.m.