Debates of 3 Nov 2010

MADAM SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:35 a.m.
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Hon Members, Correction of Votes and Proceedings of Tuesday, 2nd November, 2010.

In the absence of any correction, the Votes and Proceedings of Tuesday, 2nd November, 2010 is adopted as the true record of proceedings.

We now move to the Official Report of Wednesday, 27th October, 2010.

Hon Members, in the absence of any correction, the Official Report of Wednesday, 27th October, 2010 is hereby adopted as the true record of proceedings.

We move on to Official Report of Friday, 29th October, 2010.

Hon Members, in the absence of any correction, the Official Report of Friday, 29th October, 2010 is hereby adopted as the true record of proceedings.

We move now to Questions.

Yes, the first Question is number 547 -
rose
Madam Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member?
Mr Opare-Ansah 10:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, yesterday, we had on the Provisional Order Paper, an Urgent Question that stood in the name of the Hon Member for Navrongo Central (Mr Joseph K. Adda). He was actually away in the constituency - [Interruptions] - He is now here, if you could hear him. He was actually up but you were not calling him.
Madam Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Well, if he stands up and catches my eye, I would call him.
rose
Madam Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member for Navrongo Central (Mr Joseph K. Adda).
Mr Joseph K. Adda 10:35 a.m.
Thank you, very much, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker, indeed, on yesterday's Order Paper, at the Provisional Order Paper section, a Question, which I had submitted in the last Session of Parliament, which was part of the Business Statement that was submitted on Friday by the Hon Leader of the House was meant to be asked today. So, I rushed back from committee's session, hoping to be able to ask that Question. But on reaching here , I saw that that Urgent Question was not on the Order Paper for today.
I was wondering whether it is a printing error or it was a conscious deletion without me being informed by either the Clerks or the Leadership of the House or anybody, for that matter. And I wonder why an Urgent Question that was submitted during the last Sitting of Parliament, that is being considered now from last week to yesterday, all of sudden, disappears from the Order Paper.
Madam Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Yes, let us find out the reason.
Mr Clestus A. Avoka 10:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Member for Navrongo Central is right. The Question appeared on the Provisional Order Paper of yesterday and therefore, meant to be taken today. It is not an omission as such except that it is due to circumstances beyond our control.
Madam Speaker, it was very late in the evening that our attention was drawn to the fact that the learned Hon Attorney-General and Minister for Justice had to travel at a very, very short notice. Therefore, during the course of yesterday's proceedings she could not notify me or the Clerk's Office about her inability to be here this morning. So, we got the information quite late and it was also not possible to notify the Hon Member, who I am aware, was in Koforidua on the Committee on Energy looking at the oil Bills. I think they have been there since Monday or even before. And I can testify to that.
So, if the Hon Member has been able to drive from Koforidua to Accra this morning to be able to ask the Question, I think that that is very dutiful of him. I regret the incident and we apologise for the hardship that he has gone through. But we would make sure that the Hon Attorney-General and Minister for Justice would be reprogrammed to come and answer this Urgent Question as early as possible.
Madam Speaker 10:35 a.m.
The Hon Majority Leader has given you the reason. Yes, anything to say?
Mr Adda 10:35 a.m.
Madam Speaker, indeed, I think there is a problem in this House. Often some of us submit Urgent Questions because of the timing of the issues. And we always expect that, at least, within a number of days, a week or so at the latest, that Question should come up. This
particular Question that I submitted had a lot of relevance to the things that are happening in this country and I expected that, at least, I would be notified by it even before it came up.
My concern now is, when should I expect to be given the opportunity to ask the Question in this House?
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Yes, Hon Majority Leader, it is an Urgent Question.
Mr Avoka 10:45 a.m.
As I indicated, the Attorney-General and Minister for Justice is not available within the jurisdiction. So as soon as we are in contact with her as to when she is available in the country, we would make sure we would programme her and we give the Hon Member adequate notice to be able to be present.
Mr Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the answer proffered by my Hon Colleague, the Majority Leader is quite convincing, even though I would say that it is not persuasive at all.
Madam Speaker, in this House, we have often had arrangements where in the absence of substantive Ministers, their deputies have come to respond to Questions. Are we being told that the deputy is also not in the country, in the jurisdiction or that the deputy is incompetent to answer this Question?
Mr Avoka 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Deputy Minister is in the country. But the Hon Attorney-General and Minister of Justice has undertaken to attend to the House personally and address this Question. So the deputy was not briefed to come and take over and answer this Question. It is a very important Question and the Hon Attorney-General and Minister for Justice wants to give
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I believe that every Question that is asked in this House is important, otherwise, it would not be asked in the first place.
But it is interesting to note that the Hon Majority Leader is telling us that the Hon Attorney-General and Minister for Justice left the jurisdiction at very short notice and that it was late in the evening that he heard.
Now, he is telling us, rather assuredly, that the Attorney-General and Minster for Justice herself, given the import of this Question, has undertaken to personally come to answer this Question. That is very assuring. But to remind him that, this is an Urgent Question, as has already been said; it involves the hurling of scurrilous and denigrating remarks about KOSMOS and E O Group and I believe that the time is here for this matter to be addressed.
Madam Speaker, I believe that immediately upon the arrival of the Hon Attorney-General and Minister for Justice, this Question would have to be responded to.
Madam Speaker 10:45 a.m.
I thank you, Hon Minority Leader and thankfully, you are also a member of the Business Committee. So I hope the two of you would put your heads together and quickly list the case
and make sure that the Attorney-General and Minister for Justice is here.
Hon Adda, you would be informed of the date.
Is the Hon Minister for Health here? The next Question is in the name of the Hon Member for Offinso North, Mr Augustine Collins Ntim.
ORAL ANSWERS TO 10:45 a.m.
QUESTIONS 10:45 a.m.
MINISTRY OF HEALTH 10:45 a.m.
Minister for Health (Dr Benjamin Kunbuor) 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, a CHPS compound is already under construction at Nkwaakwaa, which is at roofing level. It is sponsored from the Member of Parliament Common Fund. As soon as it is completed, the Ministry will equip and staff it.
At Serentiatia, the District Health Directorate, through the District Assembly, has submitted a proposal to the Japanese Grant for Grassroot Human Security Project for assistance to construct a
CHPS compound. The District Health Directorate is awaiting response to this proposal. The Ministry will equip and staff this project too, as soon as it is completed.
Mr Ntim 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I thank the Hon Minister for the concise answer provided. Madam Speaker, may I find out from the Hon Minister, apart from staffing and equipping the project -- [Interruption]-- That is a question.
Madam Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Let us wait for the question. Yes?
Mr Ntim 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister has given an indication in the first paragraph that the Ministry would equip and staff the project. My question is, apart from providing equipment and the staffing, can there be any support from the Ministry to help complete the superstructure, that is the civil works in good time so that the good people of Offinso, especially Nkwaakwaa will also have a descent access to health facility?
Dr Kunbuor 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, it is actually a policy of the Ministry not to duplicate projects that are already underway. I am aware and thankfully so that most Hon Members are actually using the paltry sums that they get from the National Health Insurance Scheme for infrastructural projects. We have anticipated that because of the sudden rise in costs, most of them would be unabled to complete them. So a facility would be coming before this House and we have
added them to upgrade them to the 391 uncompleted projects throughout this country. A loan facility has been secured and would be before this House to make sure that all those initiatives of Hon Members are completed.
Mr Ntim 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I remember somewhere last year, in one of his Answers to the Question, he did indicate that plans were far ahead to provide health facilities countrywide with mechanised boreholes. Can he tell or confirm whether this facility in question can also benefit?
Dr Kunbuor 10:45 a.m.
Madam Speaker, just in case I might be getting the context wrong, there were so many Questions I answered last year. But it is certainly a policy and feasibility studies have actually been completed throughout the country in terms of providing water, particularly boreholes to almost every health facility in this country. We are still beginning to syndicate the financial arrangements and I think we would come out very soon with that particular policy implementation.
Mr Ntim 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, may I find out from the Hon Minister whether he can tell in brief, the processes one has to go through in order to access some of the equipment in order to operationalize the CHPS compounds -- some of the processes one has to go through in order to reach him at the Ministry to be able to get some of the equipment to operationalize some of the CHPS compounds that we have initiated.
Dr Kunbuor 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I
do not think there should be processes necessarily in the Ministry. If the Hon Member wants to have a discussion with me, even while I am in Parliament, I will avail myself and we will draw his attention
Dr Kunbuor 10:55 a.m.


to the specific technical people that he can meet to deal with the day-to-day arrangements in getting this equipment in place.
Mr Ntim 10:55 a.m.
Thank you, Madam
Speaker.
Municipal Government Hospital -- Weija
(Request)
Q.548. Mr Justice Joe Appiah (on behalf of Ms Shirley Ayorkor Botchway) asked the Minister for Health when Weija would have a proper municipal government hospital.
Dr Kunbuor 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Ministry has seen the need for a hospital to be constructed in the western part of Accra metropolis. A concessional loan is being secured from Opus 7 by Government to construct 12 hospitals. A 100 bed municipal hospital will be one of the hospitals to be put up at Weija under this facility.
Mr Appiah 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I want to ask the Hon Minister why the hospital is part of the Public Investor Projects in the 2011 Budget.
Dr Kunbuor 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
budgetary sources in terms of Government of Ghana and donor sources are the main components of funding infrastructural projects in the health sector. Increasingly, over the years, experience has shown that the donor funds with counterpart funding from the Government of Ghana are about the most reliable in terms of what is needed.
In relation to a municipal health facility, we believe that the pipeline donor
funds that are coming will be most suitable in terms of speed and urgency to address this issue. The Hon Member would know that there, so much pressure. normally, on GoG funds that are contingent on taxes that are subject to fluctuations. So, when we are dealing with very urgent projects of this nature, we prefer to rely on what is more certain.
Mr Appiah 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the
Ministers always give us promises; “it is in the pipeline”, “ it is in the pipeline”, it is in the pipeline. Madam Speaker, I want to ask the Hon Minister, when will the concessional loan be secured from Opus 7; Always “ it is in the pipeline”, so he should tell us, precisely when is -
Dr Kunbuor 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
the Attorney-General's Office has just finished giving the legal advice on the loan arrangement and I am almost certain that by next week, that loan facility would be laid before this House.
Mr Appiah 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, can the Hon Minister be clear with facilities that go with the municipal hospitals-- facilities? In case the hospital is built, what are the facililties?
Dr Kunbuor 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
under the decentralized health structure, the municipal hospital, very much like a metropolitan hospital, is at the same category as a district hospital. You only would have enhanced specialist facilities because of the peculiar urban nature and the disease burdens that are associated with it. So, any facility that is associated with a district hospital would be in a metropolitan and municipal hospital and enhanced by the peculiar needs of the environment.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:55 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, may I know from the Hon Minister what considerations went into the determination to provide a 100-bed
hospital for Weija, given the population of Weija itself and also the catchment area of the hospital? It should be in excess of five hundred thousand. So what considerations went into determining the provision of a 100-bed facility?
Dr Kunbuor 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Weija Metropolitan Health facility is not one that is isolated. There is a general policy to decongest Korle-Bu and make sure that it sticks to its original mandate of providing tertiary health services. To that extent, you will find Amasaman, La and other outlying areas that are going to be upgraded to provide the first entry point health facilities. We have taken into consideration those issues and we have reached a figure of about 75-bed which will be part of the decongestion process.
We have seen the catchment area, most of them will be moving back into other facilities that will be upgraded and that will reduce the substantial pressure on the new infrastructure.
I might also have to add Madam Speaker, that we have had a very, very detailed and long petition from the Hon Member from Weija indicating the history of the unavailability of that particular project dating back to 1980 and we have taken her concerns seriously and that also factored into this figure that we have arrived at.
National Health Insurance Scheme (Claims)
Q. 549. Mr John Agyabeng asked the Minister for Health what measures were being taken under the National Health Insurance Scheme to resolve claim management and other cost control
measures.
Dr Benjamin Kunbuor 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, a modern claims processing centre has been established. The centre is currently handling claims from all the teaching hospitals and regional hospitals in Ghana. At full capacity, the centre is capable of processing 15,000 claims per day. Currently, it is processing 10,000 claims per day. Monitoring of the activities of District Mutual Insurance Schemes and vetting of claims have been scaled up as important cost-control interventions. An electronic monitoring of prescribing patterns is also being developed.
Mr Agyabeng 10:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, from
the Minister's Answer, on the average, 90 claims are received and processed a day from each district. I want him to explain why there is a delay in the payment of service providers that has accounted for the service providers turning over people who are sick that attend those hospitals and other service providers. I want to find out from him why, if 90 claims are received on average from each district a day and processed -- why the delay in paying the service providers.
Dr Kunbuor 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the acoustics seem to be a problem, if the Hon Member could repeat the question.
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
Hon Member, can you repeat the question, not too close to the microphone?
Mr Agyabeng 11:05 a.m.
The modern claim centre is currently in session and receiving ten thousand claims and processing ten thousand claims a day. And on the average, we have about ten thousand claims a day. So on the average, we have about 120 district hospitals. So all that I am saying is that on the average, 90 claims

are received and processed from each district from the statistics he is giving. So I am only asking the Minister why the delay in paying the service providers.
Dr Kunbuor 11:05 a.m.
The issue of delay in actually paying service providers has certainly become a thing of the past in the last six months. As we talk now, all claims against which queries have not been made have been settled. Between 2009 and 2010, we have been able to pay claim arrears dating back to 2007 to 2008 -- [Hear! Hear!] As we stand, claims that are pending are those that are due and it is only a very tiny percentage of claims that have been queried in the settlement process that have not been settled.
Mr Agyabeng 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I want to ask the Hon Minister whether centralizing the claims management process would not cause a delay.
Dr Kunbuor 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, indeed, the claim settlement process is not being centralized. What we have, is to find particular locations where you put the most up-to-date warehouse and they are hooked onto the district processing arrangement. So we have not really centralized the claim processing process. We have only found the regional capitals to scale up the particular ICT platforms to speed up the claim settlement. Since that process was put in place, we have had a faster claim settlement than when it was being manually processed at the district level, Madam Speaker.
Mr Agyabeng 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the electronic monitoring process of the district mutual schemes was initiated about three years ago. The Hon Minister is saying that it is yet to be developed. I want to ask him when the electronic
monitoring would be operational.
Dr Kunbuor 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, there is a very important component of the electronic monitoring and that has to do with the prescription forms. The evidence suggests clearly that prescription forms from one insurance scheme have been migrated to other insurance areas in which claims have been collected double.
We are now trying to put an electronic feature on the prescription forms themselves, which will be hooked onto the platform to make sure that it is impossible for one to key in the same serial number and get the claim settled in three or two different locations and that feature is one that is in the procurement process. That is why I indicated that there were processes to implement.
Mr Agyabeng 11:05 a.m.
Thank you, Madam Speaker -
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
You have finished with your three questions.
Mr David T. Assumeng 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, can the Hon Minister tell the House how much was in arrears before - [Some Hon Members: Sit down.]
Dr Kunbuor 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I guess this is a matter that I will need notice, judging from the mood of the House.
Female Hostel and Classroom Block -- Agogo Presbyterian Nurses
Training College (Completion)
Q. 550. Mr Kwame Anyimadu- Antwi: asked the Minister for Health when the female hostel and the classroom block at Agogo Presbyterian Nurses Training College would be completed.
Dr Benjamin Kunbuor 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the hostel block is about 50 per cent complete. At a meeting with the contractor on 27th October 2010, he agreed to complete the hostel block by 31st December, 2010.
Mr Agyabeng 11:05 a.m.
With the greatest respect, Madam Speaker, before I come to my supplementary questions, I crave your indulgence, if possible, to give the Hon Minister a second chance to answer my Question since my Question has not been answered.
With respect, the Question that was posed has not been answered and if the Hon Minister would be given the opportunity - I will be privileged that he is given the opportunity to answer the Question because I sought to find out when the completion would be done in respect of, not only the female hostel but also when the classroom block at Agogo Presbyterian Nurses Training College would be completed.
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
You mean you put it all in one Question or two separate Questions?
Mr Anyimadu-Antwi 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, with the greatest respect, it is in one Question.
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
The Question today dealt only with female hostel and classroom block. I think his complaint is that, you did not answer the Question on the classroom block. Is it not it?
Dr Kunbuor 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the hostel and the classroom block -- that is why I thought the Question was rightly and properly answered. It is one project in Agogo and that was why that Answer was
given, which applies to both situations.
Mr Kwame Anyimadu-Antwi 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, with the greatest respect, I am aware that there are two projects. But if the Hon Minister would want to say that the classroom block would also be completed by the date he has set, then I would not press for him to answer the Question.
But I understand that there are two projects, the female block hostel and a classroom block and the Question sought to find out when these projects would be completed.
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
And now, he is saying they will all be in one block. So you are right. You have supplementary questions, if you will want to ask.
Mr Anyimadu-Antwi 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, is the Hon Minister aware that the contractors on the female hostel project are delayed in payments -- with the main contractor, he has been delayed for 21 months now; the electrical contractor, 25 months now; the plumbing contractor, 21 months now, and the consultant 13 months now. If he is aware, how does he synchronise these delays with the promise he had given that the projects would be completed by 31st December, 2010?
Dr Kunbuor 11:05 a.m.
Madam Speaker, p rec ise ly, the Hon Member has acknowledged the fact that it was one contract with a sub-contractor and the sub-contractor is what he sees working on another location.
Madam Speaker, the position is that, this is one of the Questions that we had to send a team to the particular location. We are not taking the word of the contractor for it. There are consequencies associated with that type of promise if the deadline is not met.
Dr Kunbuor 11:05 a.m.


I would also add that this was one of the projects that forensic audit was done on, simply because at the time of award of the contract, the processes of the award were ones that were not adequately transparent and all hurdles had to be cleared for the contractor to be ordered to get back on site otherwise the contract was going to be “terminated”.
Madam Speaker 11:05 a.m.
Yes, your second question.
Mr Anyimadu-Antwi 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, with the greatest respect, I insist that there are two different projects and I have not admitted the fact that it is one project - the Hon Minister should take note of that.
Now, the next question: would the Hon Minister confirm that on the 9th of July 2010, a meeting was held at the Agogo Presbyterian Nursing Training School, at which meeting the Ministry was represented, together with the school authorities and the contractors and a promise was made that the block “B” part of the female hostel would be completed by the 24th of August, 2010?
With the greatest respect, if the Hon Minister is aware, which of the blocks is he referring to, to be completed by the end of the year? Is it the block “A” part, the block “B” part or both “A” and “B” of the female hostel?
Dr Kunbuor 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I am certainly not aware of this matter and I will crave the Hon Member's indulgence to let me follow up and find out. But I just wanted to be clearer in the question whether the assurance was made by the contractor or by the Ministry.
Mr Anyimadu-Antwi 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I said that, specifically on the 9th of July, 2010, a meeting was held and it was agreed at the said meeting, at which the Ministry was ably represented and
they gave a promise that by 24th of August, 2010, the block “B” part of the female hostel would be completed in order that the school would have increased their intake for the September admissions. That is the import of the Question I asked but it looks as if the Hon Minister is saying that he needs further time so I would go on with the next supplementary question.
Madam Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Yes, the next supplementary - third question; go on.
Mr Anyimadu-Antwi 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I would want to find out from the Hon Minister what his Ministry had done in solving the problem at the Agogo Nurses Training College so far as accommodation is concerned, when the promise of completing part of the project was breached on the 24th of August, 2010.
Thank you.
Dr Kunbuor 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, if I understand the Hon Member, there was an agreement reached among three parties of which the Ministry was one. The responsibility of the Ministry is supervision; that of the contractor is actual implementation and then the school, which is a beneficiary institution. The meeting that was held on the 27th of October, 2010, certainly, is a follow-up to that agreement that was reached in terms of responsibility of the Ministry to get the assurance from the contractor that it would be completed on the 31st December, 2010.
Madam Speaker 11:15 a.m.
You have finished with your third supplementary question; what were you going to ask? Is it another supplementary question because you have had three?
Mr Anyimadu-Antwi 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, with respect, it was a question that has emanated from the Answer that the Hon Minister has given. And I wanted to know, in short, that in spite of all the
promises, he himself has acknowledged that the Ministry was present at the meeting and the promise was made.
I have also asked from him whether he is aware that the contractors are being delayed in payment. The simple question I want to put to him is whether the Ministry has fulfilled its part of the bargain by paying the contractors.
Dr Kunbuor 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, to the best of my knowledge, no certificate of payment on Agogo has come to my attention. I will try and find out where perhaps there could be a delay. I have been cautious in getting into the details of the agreement that was reached because I do not know whether that agreement was reduced into a written form.
While I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of the Hon Member, he has not vowed whether he was a party to that agreement or he witnessed it. So I am very cautious and I want to cross-check on the exact terms of that agreement that was reached on the date referred to by the Hon Member, And whatever needs to be done by the Ministry, that would be done.
Prof. (Emeritus) Samuel Kwadwo Amoako 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister, in his Answer, was very specific that the hostel block is about 50 per cent complete. Obviously, he did not say anything about the classroom block. May I know from him, the stage of the classroom block; what percentage has been completed of the classroom block?
Dr Kunbuor 11:15 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my instructions on this matter still remain that the two projects might have commenced as separate projects but they have been consolidated and re-aligned as one project. I would assume for now, that the 50 per cent applies to both facilities.
Well, I do know about the 50 per cent completion and the 31st December, 2010
deadline. From what I have seen in terms of the size of the project, I believe it is one that is possible to accomplish. But I certainly would want to get more information and bring it back to the Hon Member and the state of the classroom block.
Mr Francis Addae-Nimo 11:15 a.m.
Madam Spaeker, 50 per cent of the contract still remains unexecuted according to the answer by the Hon Minister. Would he tell this House what activities constitute the remaining 50 per cent of the works for which he is sure that they would be completed within the period of two months?
Dr Kunbuor 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, this Question was certainly pending for about three-four months now and the Answer that is pertaining to it also relates to that particular period. So I believe the progress of what is going on now goes back four months from the time that the team visited the facility in question. And so, the specific activities that need to be given to the Hon Member would require some notice and we can go back and get the quantities done.
I am particularly sorry that I am not competent in that area, unless I am instructed.

Staff Accommodation -- Dadieso Clinic

(Provision)

Q. 551. Mr Stephen M. E. K. Ackah

asked the Minister for Health when staff accommodation would be provided for the new clinic built at Dadieso.
Dr Kunbuor 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Dadieso Health Centre is one out of a total of 23 newly completed health centres constructed all over the country under-

the Rural Health Services Project II with funding from Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC).

The project was planned for District Assemblies to provide the accommodation units so that with the available funding, Ministry of Health (MoH) could provide many more health centres. Unfortunately, District Assemblies in almost all the beneficiary sites have reneged from this co-financing arrangement. The MoH has therefore, decided to capture the 23 health centres as part of the uncompleted projects of the Ministry, for which a concessionary loan is being sourced for completion of all uncompleted projects.
Mr Ackah 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister has indicated in his Answer that a concessionary loan is being sourced to complete the uncompleted projects. Can he, please, tell or indicate the source of this loan?
Dr Kunbuor 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, if I still remember my Standing Orders properly, I should not be raising anticipatory matters for the simple reason that this matter would be before the House by next week. But definitely, Cabinet has given approval to this particular facility.
Mr Ackah 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, from what the Hon Minister is saying, is he assuring me and my constituents that come 2011, this project will operate?
Dr Kunbuor 11:25 a.m.
Madam Speaker, a very thorough review has been done in terms of health infrastructure in this country. It was as a result that we realized that about 391 uncompleted projects, most of them at 70 per cent completion, have been standing unused since the late 1980s. It, therefore, became a policy, that all these uncompleted projects have to be finished while we take on board new ones. It is for this that Government decided to source
for the facility for this particular project. If Parliament approves this facility in this Sitting, we can assure you that by 2011, most of these projects, including the one in question would be completed.
Madam Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Any other question -- [Pause.]

Hon Minister, I think we are happy to be with you. I forgot to discharge you but you are discharged. That is not to mean that you should leave the House unless you want to go.

Thank you for coming to answer our Questions.

Hon Justice Joe Appiah - [Pause.] I thought you wanted to deliver a Statement to the House?
Mr Justice Joe Appiah 11:25 a.m.
I thought it was Friday, but I can do it.
Madam Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Well, let me - I have one then from Hon Richard Akuoko Adiyia, which is an earlier Statement, 21st and Hon Justice Joe Appiah; yours is 2nd November, 2010. Hon Adiyia, yours is 21st of last month, so we hear you first.
STATEMENTS 11:25 a.m.
Mr Richard Akuoko Adiyia (NPP - Ahafo-Ano North) 11:25 a.m.
Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to make this Statement titled “Ghana First” on the floor of this august House.
Madam Speaker, I will start with the simple premise that there is only one Ghana and no spare elsewhere, this is our Ghana.
Chapter 6, article 35 of the 1992 Constitution of the Republic of Ghana
states that --
“. . . sovereignty resides in the people of Ghana from whom Government derives all its powers and authority. . .”
Therefore, as representatives of the people of this country, our priority should be to serve the interest of the good people of Ghana from whom we derive all our powers and authority.
However, the interest of the people of Ghana, which is the heartbeat of every government that comes into power, has always been conflicting with political, tribal, ethnic, religious, class and even group priorities.
Madam Speaker, as citizens of this great country, we have a common destiny and collective security; an attack upon one of us is an attack upon all, regardless of our political affiliation. We should therefore, seek first, the well-being of the people of this country and that of mother Ghana in order to move the country forward for a better Ghana -- Ghana First.
Madam Speaker, time and time again, we are called to act by our conscience and common destiny. We are Ghanaians first before we became members of our various political parties; whether New Patriotic Party (NPP), National Democratic Congress (NDC), Convention People's Party (CPP), People's National Convention (PNC), or what have you. Therefore, the welfare of the people of this great country should be our main concern.
Madam Speaker, Governments will come and go, people will come and go, political parties will come to power and lose power but mother Ghana will always be there.
Therefore, as a people, we have a moral responsibility and obligation to continually examine and re-examine the policies, programmes and activities of
political parties not to commit the same mistakes again. However, there is a new parlance in the Ghanaian politics “The Minority will have their say and the Majority will have their way.”
Madam Speaker, as a country, we have reached a stage in our democratic dispensation that the government in power and the largest opposition party should be able to give and take constructive criticism for the development of this nation, what I will describe as “cross-fertilization” of ideas.
Therefore, the cycle of vengeance and political vendettas that are associated with transitionn in political leadership has no place in our democratic dispensation and must end.

Yes, of course, healthy discussion of issues on partisan lines is, indeed, good for our democracy but at the end of the day, the question we must ask ourselves is, who benefits more, the great people of this country or just the political elite.

Madam Speaker, if as representatives of the people of Ghana, we benefit more than the people that we serve, then we are not serving. Our collective efforts would be the only way to move this country forward for a better Ghana.

Madam Speaker, the politics of political brouhaha is over and it is said that foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Therefore, if we become too entrenched in our political philosophies and ideas, we tend to lose sight of a broader picture, the well-being of the
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
Thank you, Hon
Member.
Hon Justice Joe Appiah, yours also is on the same line, is it not?
Mr Justice J. Appiah 11:35 a.m.
Yes, Madam
Speaker.
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
If you could also
read it quickly, then we take the comments on both.
Use of Foul Language on Political Landscape
Mr Justice Joe Appiah (NPP -
Ablekuma North): Madam Speaker, for sometime now, our airways have been characterized by the use of insulting languages by certain misguided politicians, so-called commentators and even public officials, and this does not augur well for our fledgling democracy.
Madam Speaker, Ghanaians, you are aware, respect and jealously protect our customs, traditions and cultures; therefore, the employment of vituperative language in politics is frowned on by society.
Madam Speaker 11:35 a.m.
I thank you, Hon Member.
The floor is opened now for comments. We have one hour.
Mr Kojo Adu-Asare (NDC - Adenta) 11:35 a.m.
Thank you very much, Madam Speaker for this opportunity. I want to start by thanking the two Hon Members who made the Statements on the floor and also to add my
voice to their concerns raised.
Ghana today seems to be on fire between the hours of 6.00 a.m. and 10.00 a.m. on daily basis. Almost every radio station in this country has politics as their agenda; almost every radio station has that. Between 8.00 a.m. and 10.00 a.m., discussions on radio lately suggest or seem to suggest that Ghana is on fire.
But it is so because we have allowed the media to take over everything in this country. Madam Speaker, tune to any of the radio stations in the morning and the spot light is one politician or the other, and in most cases, what you will find are personal issues. Check from the news stands, you will find gory pictures, nude pictures or semi-nude pictures and it looks as if nobody is interested in these issues or want to do something about these things.
When I was growing up as a young boy, watching television was something that I can call a luxury because most houses did not have it, and there was something called “sensorship”. Today, what you see is that they have written on the television somewhere, “age 18”; it means the person should be over 18 years. But if you are showing a programme at a time when children who are less than 18 have been given the opportunity to watch television, at a time when they have also indicated 18 years as whatever it is, it ends up becoming counter-productive to our cause.
As a nation, we are beginning to lose the Statehood which we as politicians or whatever professions we may find ourselve in, should rather espouse. We have allowed partisan politics to take over everything; winner takes all and loser gets nothing. In my opinion, this attitude is not what Ghana should look like.
Secondly, when you go to China,
you will find out that during productive hours, no politics is discussed at all on radio or TV and I am not surprised that today, China is what it is. I think Ghana needs a similar system and I implore the National Media Commission -- Because in the past three, four weeks, what have we been seeing? We have seen insults left and right, accusations. Who started it? It is dated from your era and it ended - all manner of language that in my view, does not help this nation at all in any way.
So I just want to add my voice to all of us in this House that we only have one Ghana; whenever we all travel outside this country, we are in a hurry to get back to our country. Whatever sent us there, we all say those countries are nicer, they have all the development but by the time you spend two weeks outside, you feel home- sick, and this is the only country we have.
One thing that sometimes makes me a bit worried is when issues come up and instead of us dispassionately discussing them, we rope in partisan politics. Today, the institution of police is under siege. They cannot do their work without the interference of the media. The media presenters sometimes have turned themselves into lawyers who cross- examine issues in the media before even the police get to hear them. I think we are losing the very core fabric of our nation by these gestures that we find in our media these days.
I want to take this opportunity to implore all Ghanaians that we have only one nation. In my own house, I have people from the Convention People's Party (CPP) but I am with the National Democratic Congress (NDC). I have people from the New Patriotic Party (NPP). But whenever we meet, we are one family. And I think the same way, in this House, when you step outside the Chamber here, you would find people seated around the round table having coffee and tea together. You would
Mr Anthony E. Amoah (NPP - Mpohor Wassa East) 11:45 a.m.
Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving me the opportunity.
I just want to side with the Hon Member who just spoke about the media. I believe that if the media is very responsible, then most of the things that we have been witnessing on the airwaves will not happen. It is true that it is the media that set the agenda. So, it means that the media can decide to bring any issue for discussion and most of the time these issues that easily result into insults are set by the media.
So, I believe that the National Media Commission (NMC) should go beyond resolving issues. The Private Newspaper Publishers Associat ion of Ghana (PRINPAG), which actually is the body for private newspapers, should be able to look at some of the things that people write and speak.
Those of us who have been in the media for long, every morning, you have to even listen to views, you have to listen to criticisms about the things that you
have written and about the things that you said on air. Now, because of democracy, everybody thinks that the only way of making money is to bring about stories with sensation. I believe that those of us who were in the media, there were a lot of words that you could never speak on air. These days, anybody at call can be called to speak.
I also believe that if the media sets an agenda which can also get us into insults, it is up to us, those who are called on air to speak, to also be a little civil. Because I believe that when someone insults you, there is no need for you to respond.
One thing that I have actually witnessed about media of late is that they are acting as courts. They will call one man or one person and then they will ask him, the other person is on air, to try and say things or he must try and convince or explain himself. It is a very bad way of bringing us together.
So, I think that the NMC, as I have already said, should go beyond listening to complaints and get down on these newspapers, as well as PRINPAG also getting down on the newspapers. Then, every morning, they must try and critique some of the newspapers and the issues that come on air. In so doing, perhaps, we may be able to get down on the issues that all of us are against.
In my opinion, we politicians too must be very careful. Because we always feed those radio commentators with certain views that in the normal circumstances, they would not know. So, if we want people to be civil on the airwaves, then we must not feed them with information that the ordinary people should not be speaking to on air.
I believe that if the idea of insults is to be done away with, we need to do more.
Mr Fritz F. Baffour (NDC - Ablekuma South) 11:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I rise to support the very eloquent Statement made by the Hon Member who first made the Statement and also to comment on the media.
As a member of the NMC, I realise the limitations of the NMC in enforcing a certain responsibility on the media. Right now, the NMC is deliberating to contribute to the Constitution Review Commission
to gain a little more teeth in order to be able to enforce a certain responsibility from the media.
Notwithstanding that, we have to understand that for many years, until 1992 and then further on to 2001 of the NPP Government, we had restricted press freedom. The press was restricted. As soon as the laws of freedom of speech and expression were enshrined in the Constitution, it gave an opening for the press to breathe and in breathing, they breathed a little too much because they had to find their levels. That is why we are going through this period because when you suppress something and then you give it vent, it bounces out like a jack- in-the-box.
The media, yes, we can say, are irresponsible now because of what is happening. But we have to understand that it is also a reflection of the times. Years back ,you would not find obscene pictures in newspapers or obscene or gory pictures on television or on any part of the visual media or certain verbiage used to describe obscene and callous things. But now, it happens. Our kids now have access to the INTERNET. There is no restriction. They have access to all kinds of information because of the present information technology age. And we have to take that into consideration. Where do we stop? The responsibility is also ours.
This country is inundated with religious institutions of different views and colours; day in, day out, you can hear in my area -- I can hardly sleep because of the churches shouting: “Praise the Lord, Hallelujah” and other things. But it does not mirror in the responsibility we have to our society.
We talk about Ghanaian culture; we talk about Ghanaian traditions and norms. But where is it written? It is not written; we do not even know; we have not even come to a consensus what our cultural
norms are. We can say we have indecent dressing; we have wrong speech and all those things. But they are not codified. Therefore, when we talk about the media, it is a reflection of the way our society behaves and we have got to do something about it.
I am very glad that my Hon Colleague, the Member for Ahafo Ano North (Mr Richard Akuoko Adiyia) said that this country is a country for all of us and we have got to start working together. We the Members of Parliament should go on a common platform and sometimes criticise the negative things that we are seeing that affect us all. Until we learn to have that sense of responsibility, we are going to fail as a nation in doing the right things and getting people to do the right things.
Madam Speaker, on that note, I am done.
Madam Speaker 11:55 a.m.
Thank you, Hon Member.
Mr Simon Osei-Mensah (NPP - Bosomtwe) 11:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I wish to congratulate the Hon Members who made the Statement and by so doing, make some few comments.
Madam Speaker, it is quite worrying, the insults that we are hearing today on our media landscape. I would not like to say that the media actually is irresponsible. As much as I agree, some of them sometimes go wayward but we cannot in totality say that the media is actually irresponsible. It is actually a reflection of the development of the society.
However, who do we need to blame? These insults we are talking about, most of them have come from politicians. We the politicians have been giving the weapon
rose
Madam Speaker 11:55 a.m.
Any objection? Under what Order; because the man is on his feet? Yes, any breach of -
Mr Assumeng 11:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, there seems to be some misunderstanding or misrepresentation or misinformation. I do not think that any of the Hon Members who contributed to the Statement here condemned the media in totality and for my Hon Friend to just bring the media to that level, I think that we need to be careful and mindful about that.
Madam Speaker 11:55 a.m.
No, I do not think - Nor has he? Did he condemn them in toto? I do not think he said that. You said that, Hon Member?
Mr Osei-Mensah 11:55 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I strongly believe my Colleague did not hear me well. What I said was that, we cannot in totality say that the media is irresponsible. As much as I agree, some of them sometimes go wayward, but we cannot say in totality that the media is irresponsible.
Madam Speaker, in this country, if you look at our various cultural backgrounds, insults are frowned upon seriously, especially among the elderly, since the youth can pick these things up from us and that would serve as negative consequences for this country.
Madam Speaker, as I said earlier, I want somebody to give me just one example of somebody from the media who has insulted any personality. The Media only
Madam Speaker 11:55 a.m.
Hon Member, let us stick to the contents of this Statement.
Mr Osei-Mensah 11:55 a.m.
I may not take it in good faith, but please, when there are criticisms and you want to react to them, do not return the criticisms with insults. These things have sparked off most of the insults that we see these days.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 11:55 a.m.
Thank you very much.
Alhaj i Mohammed-Mubarak Muntaka (NDC - Asawase): Madam Speaker --
Madam Speaker 11:55 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member, quick; time is running; everybody wants to have a -
Alhaji Muntaka 12:05 p.m.
I congratulate the two Hon Members on the very brilliant Statements they made.
Madam Speaker, when you go to our Constitution, article 17(1) says and with your permission I beg to quote:
“(1) All persons shall be equal before
the law.
(2) A person shall not be discriminated against on grounds of gender, race, colour, ethnic origin, religion, creed or social or economic status.”
Madam Speaker, let us ask ourselves, do we really believe that all of us are Ghanaians? That is the genesis. Until we all appreciate one fact that before any other thing, we are all Ghanaians.
Madam Speaker, tribalism, over- emphasis on religion are things that are dividing us even before the politics came in. Politics? Yes, but even within political parties, let us look at our attitude, Madam Speaker. There is no part of this country that you would go, be it in Bolgatanga, Kumasi, Tamale, Accra, tribes call themselves: “We are the indigenes and any other group are settlers,” when we are all in the same country.
In Accra, you would find almost every other tribe; just as in Kumasi, you would find any other tribe; the same in Bolgatanga. But what is our attitude towards each other, be it in Bolgatanga, Accra, Kumasi and elsewhere? The attitude is that this person is not an indigene.
Madam Speaker, if there is any other thing any of us cannot choose from, it is our tribe. None of us decided that he or she wanted to come to this world as a Ga or an Ashanti or a Dagomba or an Hausa or what have you. It is one thing that nobody has control over. So under what authority do we undermine each other?
Madam Speaker, if we are not honest with ourselves and then we begin to change this intrusion thing in us, any other thing that we say, Madam Speaker, I am sorry we would be deceiving ourselves. Even the political parties. Let us be honest ourselves; are we not claiming that some
of the parties belong to tribe A or tribe B? Is it the way to go, because so far all of us are concerned?
Yes, it may be true that one political party has many more members from a particular group. But that does not prevent that political party having members from almost every other tribe. But yet, we the politicians have succeeded in creating the impression that these political parties are dominated by tribe A or by tribe B.
Madam Speaker, this thing is something that every one of us, if truly we are thinking about the future of this country and the well-being of the future generation, we must stop it.

Madam Speaker, let us find out what caused the war in Sierra Leone. Let us find out what caused the war in Liberia, our neighbours here, la Cote d'Ivoire, just la Cote d'Ivoire. It is just the utterances of the politicians that caused the disability of those countries and many innocent lives were lost. This is because as we Sit in this House, Madam Speaker, with the greatest respect, out of the 230, I would want to believe (may God forbid), if there is some confusion today, with the passports all the 230 have, within a twinkle of an eye, almost all of us, unless there are those who are not determined to leave, could leave this country and leave the innocent people. [Interruptions.] So, that is the nature of the way we run our politics. Colleagues may contest but the reality is that - [Interruptions.]
Madam Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Free speech.
Alhaji Muntaka 12:05 p.m.
Most of us try as
Madam Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Order! Order! A

Member is permitted free speech in this House, so let him - once he has not given a wrong information but it is his views, let him --
Mr Oppon-Kusi 12:05 p.m.
On a point of order.
Madam Speaker 12:05 p.m.
What is the point
of order?
Mr Oppong-Kusi 12:05 p.m.
Madam Speaker,
the Member opposite is bringing into question -
Madam Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Order what?
Mr Oppon-Kusi 12:05 p.m.
Madam Speaker, Order 93. He is bringing into question our patriotism as Ghanaians. We have wives and children; we have families here; if he will run, I tell you, most of us here will not run.
Madam Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Hon Member, you
are out of order. There is free speech in this House. Let him have his say.
Alhaji Muntaka 12:05 p.m.
Madam Speaker, I want to tell my Hon Colleagues that it was not with any ill motive that I made the statement. It is true that in our individual constituencies and regions, there are advantages that each and every one of us has over others, depending on which locality one belongs to. It is not good to overly echo the issue of division just because I would want to be elected or he would want to be elected.
On the issue of religion, all of us claim to be worshipping one God. There is no doubt about that; there may be Moslems among us, Christians, Buddhists and what have you. From the Islamic point of view, God in the Holy Qur'an said that He created us in tribes so that we will know each other but for Him, the God who created all of us, the best among us are those who have Him faith in Him, the
Madam Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Yes, wind up now.
Alhaj i Muntaka: Jus t a few committees -
Madam Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Other people want
to speak.
Alhaji Muntaka 12:05 p.m.
But then the majority of the committees could be chaired by the Opposition so that we will be able to really create proper wedging among ourselves.
Madam Speaker, because of time constraints, I want to urge that we do the best that we can sincerely do from our hearts to make sure that we unite this country and create a better future for generations yet to come.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 12:05 p.m.
I will take one
here and one there because time is almost - Let us see a new face. I think a fresh face is there — Hon Owusu-Ansah. [Interruptions.] Hon Owusu-Ansah, quickly, time is almost up. Hon Owusu- Ansah, five minutes.
Mr Emmanuel A. Owusu-Ansah
(NPP - Kwabre West): Madam Speaker, I want to associate myself with the sentiments that have been expressed already by my Hon Colleagues.
Madam Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Let us not personalize it. Let us talk on the policy. Let us not personalize things.
Mr Owusu-Ansah 12:05 p.m.
Madam Speaker,
I am not personalizing anything. Madam Speaker, that is a fact, the situation has happened --
Madam Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Yes, insults -
Mr Owusu-Ansah 12:05 p.m.
Madam Speaker,
up till now no apology has come from any quarters. Some people have been called
thieves. The fact that one is a politician, immediately one is branded a thief and people do not have any reason to call you so. We have other people refering to others as Nkurase foo, Kookooase foo, palm wine tappers and all sorts of names. We are the architects of our own doom. The press are doing their work; they do not put words in the mouth of anybody. When one speaks anything that is filthy, the press will take it on. When one speaks anything that is commendable, the press will take it on --
Madam Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Yes.
Mr Owusu-Ansah 12:05 p.m.
Madam Speaker,
if there is anything for us to learn, we must teach ourselves how to behave as politicians, whether one is high or is low. We all have relatives, friends and relations. The moment one speaks ill about me unjustifiably, one expects my relations, friends and family to also react and that is what is killing this country.
So, the leaders of this country, politicians of this country must know how to behave. If they do, others will follow. It is very sad that very seasoned politicians go out of their own way and make statements which are very embarrassing about their colleagues. And these are picked by international press as well as local press.
What do we expect our children to learn? What do we expect our children to take from us? Certainly, they will also grow up to behave the way we are behaving-- to insult each other. Free press and the right to be heard appears to be nobody's business. But if one is in a democracy, one is entitled to be heard.
If what I say is not acceptable to you, you have a way of making a report but insults should not form part of our daily reactions to statements about us. If we begin to treat this as a matter of urgency, our children, and children's children will come to inherit a better society where people's ideas are not trampled on and
insulted as if we are in a jungle world.
Madam Speaker, with this, I thank you for the opportunity.
Minister for Communications (Mr Haruna Iddrisu) (MP) 12:15 p.m.
Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to associate myself with the Statements ably made by the Hon Justice Joe Appiah and Hon Richard Adiyia on the use of foul language and on the matter of Ghana first respectively.
Madam Speaker, in doing so, let me first of all, commend the Hon Members who made the Statements, at least, for affording this House an opportunity to re- examine our thoughts and the language we use whether on the floor of Parliament --
Madam Speaker, it is not for nothing that even speech in this House is regulated by our Standing Orders. It means that there must be limitations to what we say in order that there will be decorum and there will be respect. But Madam Speaker, the first principle -- which is inherent in Ghanaian culture but unfortunately, we are losing it, is the respect for authority. There is no Ghanaian culture which does not recognize aged persons. There is no Ghanaian culture which does not recognize office holders. We have a President; we may disagree with the President but he represents the country; he is a symbol of authority.
He is a fountain of honour and his office must be revered and respected. If there is a Speaker of Parliament respected and elected, that respect must be accorded the Speaker of Parliament. And Members of Parliament, Ministers of State must be accorded the same respect. Madam Speaker, if you have a country where all these key officers are gladly and happily run down daily, most often including the Chief Justice without basis [Interruption] I said office holders and persons who
Madam Speaker 12:15 p.m.
Hon Members, Statement time is over. The next item will be taken by the First Deputy Speaker.
I thank you.
12.26 p.m. -- MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:15 p.m.
Hon Members, item 5 on the Order Paper.
MOTIONS 12:15 p.m.
  • [Resumption of debate from 29-10- 10]
    • Chairman of the Committee(Mr Cletus A. Avoka) 12:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, on Friday, 29th of October, I had the opportunity move this Motion, urging this august House to approve of the nomination of eight of our Hon Colleagues to the ECOWAS Parliament. This Motion was seconded by Hon Dr Anthony Akoto Osei but we deferred debate on the subject.
    Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the reason for which we deferred debate has been resolved and we are poised to take this Motion this morning. In the circumstances, I will invite the Hon Speaker to allow the debate to continue and we can then take the consequential Resolution.
    Suffice it to say, Mr Speaker, that these eight Hon Colleagues are very distinguished Members of this House. They are very experienced and have various backgrounds and the Leadership, after examining their performance in the House, thinks that they can serve the interest of this Parliament and mother Ghana in the ECOWAS Parliament.
    Mr Speaker, if you look at the list, you will realize that many of them have served about two to three to four years in this august House and indeed, those who are even new in the House have demonstrated within the short period that they have the commitment, the ability and the strength to do the work.
    It is against this background that we think these eight Hon Members will reflect the integrity and image of this House and the country at the ECOWAS Parliament. I am intrigued that one of our Hon Colleagues who is the only lady among them speaks and writes several
    languages -- English, French and Spanish -- and therefore, she will be an asset to the group. I will humbly urge Hon Members to vote for the adoption of this Motion.
    Thank you.
    Minority Leader (Mr Osei Kyei- Mensah-Bonsu) 12:25 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, as has been alluded to by the Hon Majority Leader, last Friday I was not in the Chamber. The Motion relating to the representation of the Parliament of Ghana at the ECOWAS Parliament was brought up for discussion. The debate had to be stood down because they needed some further consultation.

    Today, we are happy to inform you that outstanding issues have all been resolved and we put forth the names of the Hon Michael Teye Nyaunu, Hon Dominic Azimbe Azumah, Hon Francis Yaw Osei- Sarfo, Hon Alfred Kwame Agbesi, Hon Frederick Opare-Ansah, Hon Simon Osei- Mensah, Hon Stephen Yakubu and Hon (Mrs) Catherine Abelema Afeku.

    Mr. Speaker, as I have already indicated, we hope that Hon Colleagues herein assembled would approve of this Motion and the names that we have submitted after the approval, would then be transmitted to the President of the Commission for onward relay to the Parliament of the Community.

    Mr Speaker, on that note, I beg to support the Motion.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
    Hon Members, in the absence of any other contributions from the floor, I would put the Question -
    Question put and Motion agreed to.
    RESOLUTIONS 12:25 p.m.
    Mr Avoka 12:25 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that
    WHEREAS under article 5 of the Protocol relating to the Community Parliament of ECOWAS, a total of eight (8) seats have been allotted to the Parliament of Ghana, out of a total of one hundred and twenty (120) seats for the entire sixteen (16) Member ECOWAS Community; UNDER subclause (ii) of clause 1 of article 7 of the said Protocol, elected representatives to the Community Parliament of ECOWAS shall be drawn from the National Assemblies of Member States or their equivalent institutions or organs which shall elect such Members from among themselves;
    UNDER subclauses (i) and (ii) of clause 2 of article 7 of the said Protocol, the term of office of representatives to the Community Parliament of ECOWAS shall be four (4) years, except where a representative ceases to be a member of his/her national Parliament, whereupon he/she shall remain in office during the transition until a new member replacing him takes his/her seat;
    UNDER article 14, clause (1), paragraph (c) of the Supplementary Protocol A/SP.3/06/06 amending the Protocol relating to the Parliament, the names of the newly elected representatives shall be conveyed to the President of the ECOWAS Commission.
    N O W T H E R E F O R E T H I S 12:25 p.m.
    H O N O U R A B L E H O U S E 12:25 p.m.
    HEREBY 12:25 p.m.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:25 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think what the Hon Majority Leader is saying is that, we adopt the Resolution numbered 6 on the Order Paper, pages 2 and 3.
    Mr Speaker, he has moved the Motion for the adoption of the Resolution and I beg to second that Motion.
    Question put and Motion agreed to.
    Resolved accordingly.
    The Motion for the adoption of the Resolution is therefore carried and the eight Hon Members mentioned at page 3 of the Order Paper are accordingly hereby nominated to represent the Parliament of Ghana in the ECOWAS Parliament. The Clerk's Office should take all consequential actions accordingly.
    Mr Avoka 12:25 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, may I take this opportunity to remind the eight Hon Colleagues of ours that they are going there as representatives of the august Parliament of this country and Members of the Ghana delegation and not as partisan Members of Parliament. So we would expect that while the eight of them are there, they would work with a common purpose and unity and they would try to ensure that the good name and the image of Ghana that they have enjoyed in the past would continue.
    In conclusion, Mr Speaker, let me state that this issue of who normally is the Leader of the delegation should be a matter of principle as far as this House is concerned. We have had consultations on this matter and we think that the best practice and convention demand that the Majority Caucus would normally provide the leadership for the delegation.
    So we think that it should not be as and when one wants it or who is there and who is not there, but at least, if we are able to adopt this convention and this practice that the Majority Caucus would provide the leader of the delegation, then it would go a long way to strengthen the relationship among them rather than let them go there and divide their ranks and talk about voting and there will be acrimony.
    The Statement they made this morning is very fresh on our minds; it is against that backdrop that I think that this House should establish principles and conventions rather than act on the whims and caprices of who is in charge at any particular time of the day.
    Thank you.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
    Hon Majority Leader, do you have any agreement on this matter with your Colleague the Hon Minority Leader? And I expected that I would see what you said reflected in the Resolution. Because the previous Resolutions -- after some experience in the ECOWAS Parliament, we decided that what we just said should be reflected in the consequential Resolution for the avoidance of doubt.
    Now you are appealing to our conscience.
    Mr Avoka 12:25 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, last week, at the time that we prepared this Resolution, my Hon Colleague, the Minority Leader and indeed, the Deputy Minority Leader were not available. It is today that we discussed it briefly and thought that we should establish this principle.
    So having regard to that, we are in agreement that Michael Teye Nyaunu would lead the delegation. We did not provide it because this document was printed earlier before we met, but as a matter of principle, we think that he being in the Majority side-- And he was already, until it was dissolved, the Ghana's leader at the ECOWAS Parliament. And then he is one of the long-serving Members of this august House. It is against that background that we think that he can continue to be the leader of the Ghana's delegation.
    Thank you.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:25 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think that in principle, what the Hon Majority Leader has indicated is acceptable. I think for the purpose of the smooth organization within the ranks of the delegation, we must come to some agreement on who leads the delegation.
    Mr Speaker, as you yourself rightly have stated, sometime back we had some rather acrimonious ramblings within the ranks of the Ghanaian delegation that did not well advertise us at the ECOWAS Parliament. When some five or six years ago the leader - there was a coup attempt - [Interruption] - in Abuja for the Minority to conspire -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
    I thought you were going to say you were the victim of that coup - [Laughter.]
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think it is a thing of the past and we should not allow a recurrence of it.
    Mr Speaker, I think we should have a principled position on this. You may recall we came back and reported that what had happened there was that attitude of non- challance; we did not care what happened there. When the tables turned, then it was decided that we should go this way. I think it was not right at that time.
    However, if we do not break the cycle at a point in time, we would not make progress. So we would want to agree with what the Hon Majority Leader has said except, Mr Speaker, to have it very firm in our minds which direction that we want to go. Are we adopting the principle that the leadership should always go to the Majority Party? Or it should go to, maybe, in the scheme of things, who is the
    highest officer in Parliament. If we are going for the Majority, let us be very clear in our minds; if we are going for whoever is the most senior in terms of the structure of Parliament, we can decide on that.
    Mr Speaker, because in the scheme of things, the Hon Chief Whip for the Minority is on the delegation. The Hon Michael Nyaunu from the Majority side is the oldest Member. Fancy a situation, if the Hon Second Deputy Speaker -- Mr Speaker, with respect to you, I know you are at the Pan African Parliament -- if the Hon Second Deputy Speaker was on this delegation, what would be the consideration? That because the person comes from the Majority, he must necessarily lead the delegation or what? I am saying that as a matter of principle, we should agree with this.
    So once we establish the benchmarks, we would know that from now on, this is the way to proceed. So that we would not have any wrangling or any doubts because just like it happened in the past and people did not complain; if we allow it not well cemented, a time may come and others may say that, “Well, he is the highest officer in the scheme of things in Parliament, so let him lead.” Because when it happened to me, at the time, it was said that he was the Deputy Speaker who was the highest ranking officer in Parliament, so let him lead even though at the time I was the Chief Whip.
    You know my own ideas about this; it is never accepted in any Parliament that the Deputy Speakers would be placed above the Chief Whips, but that is another debate, Mr Speaker, with respect to you and with respect to your own opinion about that matter these days. Even though I clearly know where you belong to when you were the Deputy Minority Leader and indeed, the Chief Whip yourself.

    Mr Speaker, the issue is, we must come

    to some determination on this. I think and agree with the Majority that for now we may accept that. But let us come to some firm determination on that and then we conclude it and know that any time, any day, the Majority would lead such delegations.

    Mr Speaker, I thank you.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
    You have introduced a new dimension to the principle raised by the Hon Majority Leader. What is the position? Is it based on seniority in terms of the Majority side leading simplicter or the seniority of the Member on the delegation or the most senior person in terms of the structure of Parliament being the leader of the delegation, Hon Majority Leader?
    Mr Avoka 12:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, what I would
    advise as of now is that, we agree that Hon Michael Nyaunu is the leader of this delegation, then we would discuss further among ourselves on the various scenarios that my very good Friend, the Hon Minority Leader has raised. If we want to debate on the scenarios today, it might take us the whole day and we might not have prompted some people to be able to do research and come and assist us in this matter.
    So I think that Leadership will consult further on this matter, so that in the future, we can take a firm decision on the various scenarios and then as a House, we can agree on something. But for today, for the purposes of this Motion, I will pray that we accept that Hon Michael Nyaunu is the leader of the delegation for the reason that we have already assigned.
    Thank you.
    Mr Kobina T. Hammond 12:35 p.m.
    Mr
    Speaker, can you kindly clarify for us, when the Hon Minority Leader spoke, he did say that “seniority in terms of
    structure” and it has been echoed by the Hon Majority Leader. When he talks about seniority in terms of structure of the House, what is the suggestion? Is it in terms of Leadership or seniority in terms of duration, I mean the Methuselahs in this House? We have quite some Mugabes in this House, so is that part of the structure? I do not quite --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
    No, he
    was talking in terms of the office that the Member holds. The Hon Member can be in the House for the first time and become a Deputy Speaker of this House if the House elected him as such - So it is in terms of the office that the Hon Member holds, not in terms of the number of years that the Hon Member stays in this House. That is the point that the Hon Member mentioned, “by the structure of the House.”
    Mr Hammond 12:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, is it not
    also possible for the duration, the time that the Hon Member -- the seniority not in terms of structure but in terms of how long the Hon Member has been here? You are so conversant with the rules.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
    That is
    the point that the Hon Majority Leader indicated that we cannot take a decision on all that -- for now, let us agree that Hon Nyaunu leads the delegation and then the Leadership can meet and have discussions and take a decision on the matter.
    Mr Hackman Owusu-Agyemang 12:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, sorry I had to go and see Madam Speaker, so I was a bit late.
    I have a lot of difficulty with the position you articulate. It can be done maybe, administratively but whatever it is -- I was party to the writing of the Constitution of the ECOWAS Parliament. We go as one body, as the Parliament of the Republic of Ghana.
    Now, over and over again, your
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
    You should not undermine the Leaders because the Motion stands in the name of the Leaders.
    Mr Owusu-Agyemang 12:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I know that deep down in your heart, you agree with me and so let us do the proper thing and then everybody be at peace.
    Papa Owusu-Ankomah 12:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I agree that this is not meant for debate and I would not want to be contributing to the debate.
    Mr Speaker, we have traditions in every Parliament and as much as possible, however, unpalatable, those traditions maybe, to us at one point or another, we must really adhere to these traditions. I would suggest that this question of who leads the delegation be left to the Leadership of the House, or I would not even say the Leadership of the House; I would say, the Leadership of Parliament including the Leadership of the House.
    Because I believe that I have also held certain views about Leadership. When it comes to the institution of Parliament, there are some Members who are Leaders; when it comes to the whole House, there are also certain Leaders. But this is something that affects the entire institution because they are representing the Parliament of Ghana. It is only by reason of the rules that the Member must be an elected person to the Parliament, otherwise, the Speaker would even have been included.
    So it is something I believe we should try and do the proper thing. Mr Speaker, just ask yourself, assuming you have a group of Members of Parliament and somebody wants to know who is the leader of that group -- Obviously, if there is someone in Leadership among
    them, he will be the leader of that group, irrespective of whether he is in the Minority or Majority. And Mr Speaker, formerly, when these things were going on, I believe it is because of some reasons that we had Majority Chief Whips and so forth going -- it was because we wanted to avoid this sort of confusion. But now, we do not have any Majority Whip and that is the problem.
    For this, I thought it was a matter of course. But the issue has been raised by the Leader; I respect the Leader's views a lot but this has to do with Parliament as an institution and some of these things, we should be very careful how we determine them. Obviously, the Hon Minority Leader and Majority Leader had not firmed up their views about this and -- so could not provide us a consensual guidance.
    In the light of this, I would plead that with all due deference to the Hon Majority Leader and Leader of the House - that is why he is the Leader of the House and not the Leader of Parliament -- He is the Leader of the House. That is the difference. The Leader of Parliament is Madam Speaker.
    So I am saying that when it comes to these matters, we should be careful how we proceed. The Hon Minority Chief Whip is part of the Leadership of the House of Ghana, that is something that one cannot run away from. And I am sure that Mr First Deputy Speaker, with your experience and what happens in other Parliaments, you can discuss this matter further.
    Mr Hammond 12:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I guess there is an omission here on this document itself. I think for the sake of completeness, we should have looked at it in terms of the Resolution that we have just passed. Mr Speaker, kindly look at page 3 and look

    at the paragraph beneath the names. Mr Speaker, you will see what is stated there and with your permission, I quote:

    “For the avoidance of doubt, the reconstituted Members shall project themselves as a non- partisan delegation representing the Parliament of Ghana . . .”

    Mr Speaker, I think this reinforces the point that we all seem to be making, that if it is non-partisan and they are representing the Parliament of Ghana, then obviously, the most senior -- and to use your definition of what I asked you -- the structure - “the most senior within the structure.”

    Our Brother there, I did not know it is him; I just asked him, I signalled to him and he said he was the one, and it is without disrespect to him at all. I think his credentials have just come up; everybody knows how capable he is. But I think if we are right and we go by our own Resolution, then we are getting the Leadership wrong.

    So we should look at it again, and Mr Speaker, in fact, do it now. I am not sure about the postponement and deferring it to another date. We should have a good look at it -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
    Hon Members, I think I have heard enough on this matter. I will just take the Hon Majority Leader and then we -
    Mr Avoka 12:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am grateful to Hon Members for the various concerns they have raised with regard to the various scenarios that are available to us. It is because of the unconfirmed nature of the scenario that we have, that I said that for now -- because we are even late to have submitted their names to ECOWAS, let this process go.
    We have agreed that Hon Nyaunu will be the current leader of this delegation. And I said subsequently, after further consultations and discussions on the subject matter, we can firm up the various
    Mr Hackman Owusu-Agyemang 12:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, on a point of order. My Brother, Hon Cletus Avoka is completely off tangent. Internationally, we cannot send a list to them and then after a couple of weeks, you say that we are changing. That would mean that we have not thought through the process. Therefore, as the list goes, if we are obliged to indicate who the leader is, let us do the proper thing. We cannot -
    In fact, we would be a laughing stock of the ECOWAS Parliament if we sent Hon Nyaunu there as the leader and then we say we are going to change it. What does it mean? Does it mean that he is incapable?
    What does it mean? What we are saying is that let us do the right thing. We have said it over and over again that the position one occupies with us is important and not how long one has been here. Let us do the right thing and then go with that -[Interruption] -- That is all.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
    Hon Majority Leader, conclude.
    Mr Avoka 12:45 p.m.
    In fact, it is rather my Friend who is out of order. [Laughter.] I have not said that I did not suggest that after they have gone there for a week or two, we can take a decision here and arrest his position as such. I did not suggest that. I said the scenarios are opened, they are subject to further consultation and discussion. So as of now, let the team go with the Leadership and then after this Parliament has informed ourselves adequately on the various scenarios, we can take a final decision and advise
    ourselves. It is his opinion that he is expressing.
    He talked about international best practice; I do not know where he, without quoting anything to support himself -- that if we send a delegation, we have no right to write to them withdrawing a Leader. Please, we should not belabour the point, Hon Colleagues.
    Let the people go; that had been some practice of some sort. I do not want to open a debate because from what the Hon Minority Leader said earlier, you will realize that some time ago, he as the Deputy Minority Chief Whip ought to have been a leader of something because he was from the Majority side at the time -- but they even had to go into voting to be able to put the Second Deputy Speaker as the Leader of the Ghana's delegation.
    Mr Ambrose P. Dery 12:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think that in principle, we have passed a Resolution which has a delegation without a leader stated. Let us have that dealt with; we can forward the list as the delegation today.
    Mr Speaker, I am particularly moved by the intervention of Hon Papa Owusu- Ankomah, where he made the distinction between the House and Parliament. And in my view, the issue is, can we have a Deputy Speaker in a delegation with a back-bencher as a leader? I think it is a
    very, very critical matter. [Interruptions.] I am clear that when we talk of Parliament, it includes the Speakership, it includes the Speakers and I do not think that it would be normal for me to be on a delegation outside the country and have a Deputy Speaker introduced as part of a delegation on which I am the leader; I do not know about that.
    So I think that what we can do is to allow the list to go and then we elevate this thing from the Leadership of the House to include the Leadership of Parliament; we sit down and decide and there can be supplementary communication before the swearing in. I do not think there is any difficulty in that. So, in my opinion, I would say that what we have passed -- the Members, let them go, the Leadership of the House and the Speaker and Deputy Speakers will sit down and then we iron this out and then whoever we propose, we can send him as a Leader.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
    Hon Members, the list must go with a leader because my information, which I stand to be corrected, is that the leader is part of the Bureau. Is that correct? The leader of each parliamentary delegation is part of the Bureau.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker,
    not as of now. It used to be but it is no longer the case. Earlier, we had a number of Deputy Speakers and we had a number of Secretaries and Deputy Secretaries plus the Treasurer. The total number came to 15, which represented the total number of countries in the Community Parliament.
    Today, they have reduced the number of Speakers, also for the Secretaries, to the extent that we do not have that number being equal to the number of countries.
    It then means that not every leader of a delegation is automatically a member of the Bureau. So, I think we need to clarify that point.
    But Mr Speaker, I think we are clear in our minds that we have taken the Motion and the Resolution. It means the delegation is properly constituted and approved of by Parliament. What we have done normally by assigning leadership of the delegation is just to allow for easy operation of the group, because it is not only in Ghana.
    The other day, it happened to Sierra Leone. A member from this delegation came and supplanted who was supposed to be the leader and pleaded that she was the only female and asked that she should replace the leader of the delegation at the Bureau. The ladies conspired and allowed that, which was highly irregular.
    Mr Speaker, so, that is the problem that we may have.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    Hon Minority Leader, address the Chair.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, that has always been the trend; it has always been the trend. But today, we are changing the roles. I would plead -
    rose
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    Hon
    Member for Shai Osudoku?
    Mr Assumeng 12:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, even
    though he is one of my mentors in this House, I can cultivate mango which he cannot cultivate. I can also cultivate rice which he cannot do. So, he should take note of that.
    Mr Hammond 12:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, that he
    can contribute mango - he should take it again, he did not quite get it.
    Hon Members: “Cultivate.”
    Mr Hammond 12:55 p.m.
    You see, that is exactly the point he made. I have been to his mango plantation before. You do not know his mango plantation. - [Laughter.]
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    Maybe, it
    is a coded statement which is only known to the two of them.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker,
    my Hon Colleague from Adansi Asokwa is right. Notwithstanding, I believe until the cultivation of mango becomes part of the Business of this House, I am not prepared to indulge my Hon Colleague.
    An Hon Member 12:55 p.m.
    In mango argument.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
    In mango argument, I should say - [Laughter.]
    Mr Speaker, but I was saying that the trend has always been that the delegations have always been led by the Chief Whips. Unfortunately, now from the Majority side, there is no Chief Whip and there is no member of the Leadership in that delegation. That is where the problem is coming from.
    But I think, Mr Speaker, with respect, we can resolve this matter. The important thing is for us to transmit this list to them. I do not think that this should be any big
    burden on Parliament. I would consult my Hon Colleague and subsequent to that, I believe that we can have this matter resolved. And of course, we must also have some discussion with the Hon Members of the delegation itself and we can come to some agreement. I do not think they should stop us.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    Would the House, for that matter, Parliament of Ghana not be interested in who is the leader of the delegation that we are sending to the ECOWAS Parliament?
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I believe we can trash this matter out between us and in consultation -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    And inform the House?
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
    And inform the House. And I believe that by tomorrow or certainly, by this week, we should be able to do it.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    Yes, the very last one on this matter. Hon Majority Leader?
    Mr Avoka 12:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, with all due respect and humility, I think that we should let consensus and reason prevail over this matter for today.
    I have said that there are various scenar ios . We have agreed tha t subsequently, we will meet and discuss them. I have said that Hon Nyaunu has been the leader of the delegation. He is a retained member and he has exercised that leadership function before and they are going back there. It is only fair - and he is from the Majority side, and he is the oldest Hon Member of Parliament. But we are not using these grounds. We are just saying that, yes, there are grey areas, we have problems in the past but the fact that
    he was the leader, let him continue as such.
    When we meet and discuss this in the future at our own time and leisure and get more consultations and best international practice from elsewhere, we can arrive at a scenario that is suitable to us. But to say, we can send eight people and later on when we meet we can -- I do not think that gives this Parliament respect. I do not think so.
    With the greatest respect, I think that -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    Hon Members, what we are discussing is not part of the Resolution. The Hon Minority Leader made the point that, in principle, Hon Nyaunu should be the leader, and because he was the former leader, he should continue performing that function until such a time that a decision is taken to reverse that position. That is my understanding of the point being made by the Hon Majority Leader.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I do not think that this thing should cause any hiccup in this discussion.
    Mr Speaker, we are talking about principles and indeed, the argument by my Hon Colleague, the Hon Majority Leader when he says that for the time being, we should allow him to lead. If maybe, we meet and decide that no, he should be dropped, which is a possibility, going by his own argument, which should be, if so to call it a humiliation, which would be a greater humiliation.
    Mr Speaker, I do not think that we need to because I thought that it was going to be a formality. I know Hon Michael Nyaunu very well. I know his own contribution at the ECOWAS Parliament. But I thought
    that we could have a resolution of this -- Between today and tomorrow, the announcement would be made. But to say that let him go - what if we come to some determination that no, in the structure of Parliament, he is the most senior, the highest officer who should lead, then we bring him down?
    We can, I think, effectively deal with this between today and tomorrow. And tomorrow, we come to some determination and if he must lead, he must lead because I have my own opinion about that. And I think that we should maintain that principle.
    Mr Speaker, you know my own principled position on this. And the Hon Majority Leader knows this. So, I do not see why he now should say that we should allow “reason to prevail” as if, if we did not agree with his own pronouncement, then now, is no reason in - I mean, that kind of insinuation, with respect to the Hon Majority Leader, is unacceptable.
    I believe that as the Leader of the House, he should see the tone. We just got this morning, two Statements read. When you come with this attitude, it creates a lot of problems for some of us. I would plead with him.
    And as I am saying, he should take my word, that certainly, this week will not expire before we come to a determination on this. I do not think that the boat should be rocked. But let us have some further discussion on it and what is normal; what ought to be done, would certainly be done.
    That is my simple plea.
    Mr Avoka 12:55 p.m.
    I thought that if there was
    anything to yield to, it is normally things that are already in place. That is all right; in view of the fact that this one is in place,
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
    I do not
    know what to do; I do not know what directions to give but we cannot defer this matter. We deferred this matter since last week Friday and I think that we have to submit our name to the ECOWAS Parliament soon. I do not know, but -- [Pause.] Yes, can you help me?
    Mr Charles C Hodogbey 1:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think this is not the first time Hon Members are going to ECOWAS Parliament. It could be possible that in previous years, both sides of the House would have had leaders among the membership. So a leadership issue never came up. What I know is, I do not think at ECOWAS Parliament, Members are asked what positions they were holding in their Parliament. If that question has not been asked, I do not see the need for belabouring the issue of somebody not being a leader here and therefore, he is
    not fit to be a leader of the Members in ECOWAS Parliament. Everything we do here, even chairmanship; a first year Member can become a chairman. When we travel outside, it is the same chairman who leads the delegation.
    So why are we now belabouring that somebody is so, so and so; he is not fit to be a chairman or to lead the delegation? We should continue to make sure that the government in power, the majority in power in Parliament, leadership should come from the Majority instead of bringing in issues of leadership in Parliament here. That is my view.
    Mr Hammond 1:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, he is completely out of order. [Interruptions.] He was not following the argument. There was never a question raised by anybody who spoke, that if you were not a leader within the structure that has been indicated, you could not be a leader of the delegation to ECOWAS. That has never been the issue. The issue is, for example, if you have a case where the Second Deputy Speaker of Parliament, for example, is in the delegation and then a back-bencher like him -- look at his face or the American man -- he is in the delegation -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
    Hon K. T. Hammond -
    Mr Hammond 1:05 p.m.
    I withdraw; I withdraw all that I said -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
    Not only withdraw; withdraw and apologise.
    Mr Hammond 1:05 p.m.
    I withdraw all that I -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
    And also apologise.
    Mr Hammond 1:05 p.m.
    And also apologise profusely to the two of them. [Laughter.] Mr Speaker, I am tempted to -- Look at his face. I am tempted to [Laughter] -- If he becomes the leader and then we have him as sitting in the delegation, what impression does it present to wherever we are presenting ourselves? That is the point that is being suggested.
    If our Hon Colleague there, is simply among those who are not Members of the leadership, so defined here and he is the leader, nobody has any complaint. In fact, I think we accept on this side of the House that almost invariably, the leader of the delegation may have to come from the Majority side. I think that is not much disputed.
    But they would have avoided all these things if my Hon Brother, Kuntu-Blankson for example, had been made a member of the delegation, this whole business of Chief Whip, would not have arisen. They are now hoisted by their own petard and now, he is talking about things that -- He would not be the leader of the delegation because he is a back-bencher; you see? Mr Speaker, let him get it in the perspective. That is what the argument is about; let him get the argument right.
    Mr Hodogbey 1:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if we try to do what the Minority wants us to do, what would happen in the future is, every time they know this side of the House, the Majority, the membership is full of back-benchers, as he said, then they would quickly choose somebody as a leader because they know, yes, we are all full of back-benchers; then their Leader would continue to be leading the delegation to ECOWAS Parliament or Pan-African
    Parliament. Therefore, when we set up the precedent, that regardless of whatever you are, if you choose your First Deputy Speaker and you want to lower yourself to be a member of ECOWAS delegation, you would stay there as a member and the Majority side would choose the Leadership. That is what we should do.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Second Deputy Speaker of Parliament is, indeed, the Second Deputy Speaker of the entire Parliament, not the Speaker for the Minority. My Hon Colleague there should understand, Mr Speaker, and he should also get it clear that Parliament is not an extension of the Executive; it is an extension of Government. He needs to learn the rudiments of parliamentary practice; he needs to learn
    Mr Speaker, the points that we are making is this, and I am thinking that, we should have a principled position on this. We could go by convention and say that yes, whenever it happens, if it should be led by the Majority, so be it.
    That is all the point that I was making and I was saying that as a Parliament, we could also decide that because Parliament, is a separate arm of Government and indeed, the protocol of the ECOWAS Parliament, so establishes that there, representatives are representatives of the entire country; it is only a transitional arrangement which allows Parliament now to select from among Members of Parliament, a delegation to represent Ghana and when they go, they go in the name of the Parliament of Ghana and not as Party A or Party B.
    I was saying that in that case, this could
    also be another principled position. But let us decide for ourselves the way forward for this Parliament.
    I have nothing against the House deciding that it should be the Majority
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
    Hon
    Majority Leader, what is the principle you want, is it that the Majority should lead it? Is that the position so that it would be
    known that is irrespective o f-- Now, the Hon Minority Leader has classified the position. So is that the principle? You know as part of the previous House's Leadership, that was the position that we took as a House. The only difference is that, the person who is now leading is not part of the House's Leadership.
    That has brought the complication; but that was the decision we took. I was part of the previous Leadership that took the decision that it should come from the Majority side. The complication is as a result of the fact that the person who is leading it is not part of Leadership.
    So Hon Majority Leader, what is the principle you want us to, so that we close this matter and get to the next item?
    rose
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
    No, let us close this chapter. We have devoted so much time to this issue. Hon Majority Leader, the point has been clarified by the Hon Minority Leader. Let us get the principle that you are espousing, then we close the chapter on this matter.
    Mr Avoka 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am made to believe that, that has been the practice for some time now. But as I said earlier, the analysis he has made, I go entirely with him and I think that this is a growing Parliament. And that is what I have said that maybe, we will have time in the future not tomorrow or next tomorrow, maybe, but we will have time to look at the scenarios. But as of now, the status is that, the one from the Majority side will provide the Leadership and that is what we are urging. If there is the need for us to change in the future, we will re-advise ourselves because even mad men change their minds not to talk about sane people like all of us.
    I said that we should check on best international practices and guide ourselves on this matter. I mean the scenarios are there; I think that we should be careful.
    So, my position is that at the moment, let the status quo be maintained until such time that we find it good to change.
    Mr Owusu-Agyemang 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we as lawmakers and setting up precedence for this nation, should be careful as to what we do. I believe for now, it suits the Majority Leader to say that somebody from the Minority side --automatically, as your goodself said, if there was somebody from your Leadership - it is not a debatable point, but the issue Mr Speaker, we have flogged enough is that we are going as a House, a non-partisan House.
    I do not for the life of me see how somebody who belongs to the Leadership of this party, and when we talk about Leadership, we are making it in such a way that it is going to be very difficult to achieve co-operation in the future. Because Leadership must always provide the guidance. And now, you are telling us that because the Leadership should reside on your side, then when it comes, we are not obliged to go along with you.
    But in this instance, it is only virtually a spokesperson or somebody from whom they want to contact the Ghanaian delegation that they would. And I do not think that the precedence would be properly set if we said that a back-bencher should lead the delegation when we have a Chief Whip, not even a Deputy Chief Whip, a Chief Whip on the opposite side.
    Right now, we are doing things under your guidance properly, setting up precedence, that we should go ahead with. As I told you, if I go, quite apart from being old, I have also been here for over fifteen years almost, but when we go to a place, the Chief Whip who is much younger and who is in a second
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
    Hon
    Members --
    Mr Owusu-Agyemang 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker,
    let me conclude by saying that I think we are setting a bad precedence in this place and let us do the proper thing. Let the Leadership of this House stay together.
    Parliament is always under attack. Parliament is always the one being vilified and most of the time, I think it is not right. I decided to come to Parliament because I thought it was a distinguished place to be after my service at the international level. Do not let me regret it by saying that this Parliament is divided; a House divided upon itself, cannot stand. We are one House and must remain one House and the leader from the Leadership must lead the delegation. It cannot be the case that somebody will say, what is your designation? “I am Chief Whip” -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
    Your
    Leaders have spoken and I do not know why we are reopening this debate. I will take only two on this matter.

    Hon Members, let me hear from the Second Deputy Speaker and then I will close the chapter. [Interruptions.] I am not going to hear from anybody again but I will hear from the Second Deputy Speaker and I will give the necessary directives.
    Prof. Mike A. Oquaye 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker,
    I thank you very much.
    Mr Speaker, I think you actually were
    helping this Hon House to have this matter resolved when Mr Speaker asked whether we wanted this to be a convention whereby the leadership of the Ghana delegation is from the Majority. That question has not been answered so that we would be guided. I am advised that we have a very clear precedence in the form of Hon Dzirasah a who was from the Minority at a material time and yet was the leader of the Ghana delegation --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
    Hon
    Second Deputy Speaker, it was that incident that created the problem and we decided that we would not leave the issue of leadership to them and that this House should decide who leads the delegation. It was the Dzirasah incident that created the problem that we took over the decision of they selecting their leaders after we have sent them there. But we have taken that power from them and decided that this House, as a House, will elect the leaders for them.
    All the Resolutions that have come after that we include the leadership in those Resolutions. It is only - that is why I was a bit surprised that today, I did not see the Leader in today's Resolution and I drew the House's attention to it. I thought I should clarify this position because after you, no other person is going to speak.
    Prof. Oquaye 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, that being
    so, this matter not having been advertised in terms of who was to be the leader. I think we should take a gentle cue from the Minority Leader who wants to confer with his colleagues so that we come to a consensus. I believe there are times when you do not stand within the ants and deal with the ants; if that will be done, I believe it will save us all a lot of trouble.
    Mr Avoka 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, given the mood and the sense in the House, I will adopt the Hon Minority Leader's suggestion after today's Sitting, the two of us will confer together with our Colleagues and inform the House accordingly.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
    Very well,
    Hon Member. You will inform the House accordingly by tomorrow?
    Mr Avoka 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, so, we adopt
    the Motion?
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
    Yes, the
    Motion and the Resolution have been adopted already. We just want to be clear. Hon Members, let us call a spade a spade. There are 8 Members, both sides are four, four --
    Hon Members, whatever consultation takes place, will be announced on this floor. Whatever consultation takes place, will be announced on the floor of the House to be endorsed. So, yes, whatever decision, whatever consensus that is made, would be announced to the House to be endorsed by the House.
    Hon Members, that brings us to end of the discussion on that matter.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:25 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am happy that after going round, round, we have come back to the decision, the proposition that I made maybe, we would not have wasted so much time if we had agreed at the very outset.
    But yesterday, before we came to Sit, we had to direct the Clerk to transmit information to the Commission we were going to send our list by close of day today. I plead that we transmit the list so that we will not be overtaken by time and to add that the leader would be named maybe by close of day tomorrow, that is, having come to this decision. But the list must go so that we are not caught by time.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
    Item 10
    on the Order Paper. Hon Majority Leader, is that right?
    Mr Avoka 1:25 p.m.
    Yes, we will take item 10 on the Order Paper, that is page 4.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:25 p.m.
    Mr
    Speaker, if my memory serves me right, yesterday you ruled that we would stand down item listed 7, which on yesterday's Order Paper was listed as Motion number 11. You said we were going to take it first Motion today. Having dealt with the ECOWAS Parliament, I thought that we were going to go by the chronology, yet it has been jumped and we say we are going to -- jumping items 7 and 8 and going to debate on items 9 and 10. Any special reason for this avoidance?
    Mr Avoka 1:25 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker, many committees which are relevant for this subject matter -- Finance Committee, Energy Committee, et cetera are out of the jurisdiction. We want a full House debate; we want to normally take this matter early because of the international interest or the national interest on this subject matter to be able to debate it at the prime time when many Hon Members are available to contribute to the debate.
    I have discussed it with the Hon Chairman of the Committee and we are in agreement that we should reschedule Motion number 7 for some other day. It is against this background that we have decided to take item number 10, which normally involves the Committee on Education because we are doing the Education Bill and a few of us -- It is not intended that it will not be taken at all. No.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:25 p.m.
    First of all, Mr Speaker, since it was your ruling that we were going to take it early this morning, I thought this House ought to be apprised with the facts now that we are going to have to jump some Motions.
    But Mr Speaker, I cannot really
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
    Hon
    Minority Leader, the brief I received from Madam Speaker, I thought -- I do not know whether you met today at the lobby to have discussions. Yesterday, I made the point that I had a private discussion with the Chairman of the Committee. It is not really something that cannot be disclosed. The international donors are thinking that we are not taking these reports seriously and we thought that we should have this discussion when the House is full so that they know that the House is committed to some of these things.
    I had a discussion with Madam Speaker and based on the discussion that I had with the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, I advised that they should further discuss it with the Leadership when they meet, because he is in-charge of Government Business so that they discuss it with you. I thought you were part of that discussion and I am a bit surprised that you were not involved. I think that there is some problem with communication somewhere along the line.
    Mr Avoka 1:25 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think that is an omission on my part. After discussing with the Hon Chairman, maybe, I should have sensitized him but this is the situation. We would want full complement of Hon Members to be able to debate on this but for the Chairman to move the Motion and someone will second it and that is the end of it, when it is about the accounts of a particular area for a whole year. I think it does not do any justice to us, not to talk
    about the international community who are supporting us.
    Mr Osei Kyei-MensahBonsu 1:25 p.m.
    Mr
    Speaker, I thought that today we had many more people in the Chamber than we had yesterday, and in indeed, and in truth Mr Speaker, since you have indicated to us that you had a discussion with the Hon Chairman of the Committee yesterday before we commenced Sitting, then really, I do not see any reason we ought to have started the debate on some of the Reports, if that is the argument. That we needed fuller participation. Then why did they debate some of the Reports and stand some of them down?
    However, Mr Speaker, I do not want to further litigate it. If you think that we should stand it down and wait until another day, I have no objection. Except as you said yesterday, when you ruled that we should do it today; if we can, then say that we should do it tomorrow, tomorrow is Thursday, not Friday, and Thursdays are days that we have fuller participation than Fridays, then maybe, if we can step it down till tomorrow Mr Speaker, I believe that will be all right. So tomorrow we will come and discuss it. If that meets your convenience Mr Speaker, I believe we can do that.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
    Well,

    Very well.

    Hon Members, Students Loan Trust

    Fund Bill, 2010 at the Consideration Stage.
    BILLS - CONSIDERATION 1:25 p.m.
    STAGE 1:25 p.m.
    Mr W. O. Boafo 1:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, line 1, delete “fund” and insert “Fund”
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 30 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.

    Clause 31 -- Disclosure of information on scholarship
    Mr Puozaa 1:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 31, subclause (6), line 1, delete “Board” and insert “Fund”.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 31 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clause 32 - Accounts and audit.
    Mr Puozaa 1:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 32, subclause (1), delete and insert the following:
    “(1) The Board shall cause books of accounts and proper records to be kept in respect of the Fund in the form approved by the Auditor- General.”
    The Committee felt it was better than what we have over here.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr Puozaa 1:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 32, subclause (4), line 1, delete “Board” and insert “Fund”.
    It is consequential.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 32 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clauses 33 to 35 ordered to stand part
    of the Bill.
    Clause 36 - Offences.
    Mrs Gifty E. Kusi 1:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 36, subclause (1), add the following new paragraph:
    “(d) fails to pay monthly deductions from the salary of a borrowers to the Board”.
    Mr Speaker, I know a provision is in this Bill that if you fail to pay what you deducted from an employee, you are supposed to pay 5 per cent. But if the employee sees that that amount is quite small, so he can go away with the 5 per cent and still do that, then it should be an offence so that the person would actually face the law if he does not do it. I discussed with the Hon Chairman and I think it is something that should be considered.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Puozaa 1:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, she did and I believe that it is quite relevant for the safety of the Fund.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
    Hon Member, why do not you add “or employee”?
    Mrs Kusi 1:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I added that.
    Thank you.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
    Have you added it? What is your amendment then?
    Mrs Kusi 1:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, it is flowing from subclause (1).
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
    Very well. Hon Members, I will put the Question.
    Mr David N. Larbie 1:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think it should not be “Board”; it should be “borrower to the Fund”, not “Board”.
    Mr Puozaa 1:35 p.m.
    Yes, it is a relevant correction.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
    So it should be the “Fund” and not the “Board”.
    Mr Puozaa 1:35 p.m.
    Yes; not the “Board”.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
    Hon Members, the clause 36, subclause (1), add the following new paragraph:
    “fails to pay monthly deductions from the salary of a borrower to the Fund”.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr W. O. Boafo 1:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 36, subclause (4), delete.
    The essence of clause 36 is to create offences but if you look closely at subclause (4) and subclause (5), you could see that they do not create offences but rather civil liabilities. Mr Speaker, if we go further to page 10 of the Order Paper, the last proposed amendment seeks to categorize those two subclauses as civil liabilities. I am not very happy with the way that the thing is presented in the Order Paper, it is not seeking to delete the subclauses (4) and (5) but rather to make some re-arrangement.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
    Chairman of the Committee -
    Mr Puozaa 1:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I do not really follow that.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
    The point being made is that, if you look at subclauses (4) and (5), they are more of a civil liability; it is not a criminal offence; so it should not be under offences. That is the point that he is making. And therefore, he wants to create a new headnote with

    “Civil Liabilities” and then re-instate subclauses (4) and (5). Otherwise, another way is to make it “Offences and Liabilities”, under the headnote there and then you keep subclause (4) and subclause (5) so that the headnote for clause 36 would be “Offences and Liabilities”. But criminal offences are different from civil liabilities.
    Mr Puozaa 1:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, since this is to make it more presentable, I think it is all right.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
    It is not a matter of making it more presentable.
    Mr Puozaa 1:35 p.m.
    The object is - I mean, the same objective that this same clause is supposed to serve is being done in a better form, if it is placed that way. So, I think I accept it.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
    Hon Member for Akropong, the way the amendment has been captured, I think that it would have to be done properly because we have to move that before we go to clause 37. What we see on page 10 under “Civil Liabilities” -- do you get my point? Because it is really not a new clause, Hon Member for Akropong?
    Mr Boafo 1:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, it is not a new clause. Safe and except that it is under -
    First Deputy Speaker: It is more of a new re-arrangement and at the same time, giving it a new headnote.
    Mr Boafo 1:35 p.m.
    Safe and except that under the re-arranged subclause (2), there is an additional provision that --
    “the Board shall issue a certificate of payment to the guarantor upon full payment”.
    In the original version, there is no such
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
    You will
    move the amendments as they are on the Order Paper but you will move the amendments before we get to the Long Title of the Bill. Do you get the point I am making?
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
    Very well,
    so kindly move your amendment.
    Mr Boafo 1:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move,
    clause 36, subclause (4), delete.
    Question put and amendment agreed
    to.
    Mr Puozaa 1:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 36, subclause (5), line 1, delete “Board” and insert “Fund”.
    It is consequential.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
    Hon
    Member, there is no need for you to move that amendment in view of the amendments that you have filed under “civil liabilities”. Hon Member for Akropong, that is right because we are deleting clause 5 there is no need for the Hon Chairman to move that amendment because at the end of the day, it is going to be deleted.
    Mr Boafo 1:45 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
    Very well, Chairman of the Committee, did you get the point?
    Mr Puozaa 1:45 p.m.
    Yes.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
    Very well,
    so move the second one, it is standing in your name under clause 36.
    Mr Boafo 1:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to
    move, clause 36, subclause (5), delete.
    Question put and amendment agreed
    to.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:45 p.m.
    Mr
    Speaker, clause 36, the opening clause, “A person who: fails to --” I think we have dealt with that. Mr Speaker, I think we are not only referring to a person, we are referring to an employer and also an institution. Are we happy to have just the rendition capturing the person? I thought that we should include “the employer” and “institution” as provided for under clause 24? I do not know; when I entered, you had gone beyond that and I do not know whether you captured that but I thought it was relevant.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
    Well, we are still on clause, 36 we have not put the Question on the entire clause, so every Member is at liberty to move any amendment to the clause. I agree with you because when you look at clause 38, “a person” has not been defined there and because it has not been defined, you have to put all the things there to capture or maybe, you offer definition of “person” when we get to clause 38.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker,
    you are right; I looked at the interpretation, “person” has not been defined. But if you go to include the interpretation, the definition of “person,” then of course, it will render redundant the use of the words
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
    Hon
    Minority Leader, look at subclause 2 of clause 36.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the 26 (2) is consequential upon including “employer and institution” in clause 1. That should be consequential to including employer and institution in clause 1. That is the more reason we should include “employer and institution” in clause 1.
    Mr Boafo 1:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, clause 36
    (2) purports to give an internal definition of who a person is under clause 36 (1). It gives an internal definition of who a person is.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
    So it
    solves the problem?
    Mr Boafo 1:45 p.m.
    I think so.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.
    That is
    why I want us to look at clause 36 (2) before I move to the amendment, because there are some legal issues here and that is why I asked the Hon Minority Leader to look at clause 36 (2).
    Hon Second Deputy Speaker, I have got your point but with clause 36 (2), it tries to give further clarification to 36 (1) that:
    “Where an offence under sub- section (1) is committed by a body of persons,”
    “in the case of a corporate body each director.”
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:45 p.m.


    Then when you get to the case of partnership-- So all those institutions and organizations, they can only be either individuals employing them or corporate bodies or partnership or sole proprietorship, so that one is a person. So that is why I wanted you to look at clause 36 (2) and see whether it addresses the --

    Hon Majority Leader, are you with us?
    Mr Avoka 1:45 p.m.
    No, not now. [Laughter.]
    I am doing other strategies.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I do know that in the Interpretation Act, a “person” has been defined to include body corporate and institutions. But for the purpose of this Act, a distinction is made between “employer, a person and institution;” that is clause 24 following. That is where my problem is.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
    Initially, I agreed with you, but when I looked at clause 36 (2), which talked about ‘body of persons' and as the Hon Member for Akropong said, they tried to offer a definition for the purposes of this Bill, by trying to get a case of a corporate entity and then a case of a partnership. Because if you use this, you cannot use an institution here; when you are going to prosecute them, they come under different characters and you have to hold different people responsible.
    “Organisation” really does not mean anything when it comes to issue of prosecution. You are talking about corporate bodies, then you are talking about the directors and secretaries or the principal officers of the body. So when it comes to purposes of prosecution, then if you put ‘organization” there, it does not really mean anything. Because you have to look for the people you know whom
    you are going to prosecute.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I believe what we can do under the circumstance, is to break clause 32(1) into two parts. We could say:
    “A person who or an employer or an institution which fails …. commits an offence.”
    That will be the first point. I do not know whether that one will be (2). It should reads as follows:
    “Where an offence under sub- section (1) is committed by a person, that person is liable on a summary conviction to a fine not exceeding….”
    as has been stated.
    Then (2) will become (3).
    I think that would be a way to going round this, because we should find a way to capture the institution and the employer as has been done in clause 24 following.
    So we could put all of them together and say that if you fail to do this, you commit an offence. That should be (1), then the disaggregation will come in, “a person who commits that offence is liable on summary conviction to a fine of not more than 50 penalty units.” Then (2) here becomes (3).
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
    Yes, you are right. But I think that the point being made by Hon Boafo and I seem to be persuaded is that, the (2) addresses that problem because the institution does not mean anything really to the law. If it happens to be a partnership, a sole proprietorship, a company or a body corporate, do you see it? “Institution” really does not mean anything when you
    want to get the people to prosecute. The people that you have to prosecute are what matters when it comes to prosecution, and that is what has been clarified under subclause (2). And that is why I think that the subclause addresses that problem.
    Hon Members, given the state of business, we will Sit outside the prescribed period.
    Hon Member, you spent all the time
    talking about ECOWAS Parliament and the leader. I want us to finish with this thing and then tomorrow, we will take the controversial ones that have been deferred. So I want us to clear --
    Mr Boafo 1:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if you are
    in doubt who a “person” is under clause 36 (1), all that you do is that you go to clause 36(1) (a), it refers to persons who are required to deduct money, then you look for the provision under the Act which deals with persons who are to deduct money. Then you will know the category of persons being referred to. My point is that, when you are reading a Bill or an Act of Parliament, you do not read the sections in isolation, you take the Act as a whole. That is the basic rule of interpretation. But if you take them in isolation, then you will not -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
    So the question is , does the point you are raising address the concern of the Hon Minority Leader? Hon Boafo, does the point you are making address the concern of the Hon Minority Leader?
    Mr Boafo 1:55 p.m.
    Absolutely, and I think
    he should -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
    You are
    sitting near him but you are not able to convince him
    Mr Boafo 1:55 p.m.
    It is very difficult to
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
    That is a
    quotable quote.
    Hon Minority Leader, for now, let us leave it and let us think about -- If there is the need then we can work on it.
    Hon Boafo, move your amendment
    under “civil liabilities” at page 10 -
    Hon Members, I will put the Question
    on clause 36 first because yours is a new clause altogether.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr Boafo 1:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move,
    new clause - Add the following new clause under the Headnote:
    “Civil Liabilities
    (1) A borrower who withdraws from a proposed course of education or is dismissed from an institution, is liable to pay the loan granted for the studies in that institution.
    (2) Where the borrower fails to pay the loan granted by the Board, the guarantor of the loan is liable to pay the loan and the Board shall issue a certificate of payment to the guarantor upon full payment”.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
    But before you move your amendment, I have noticed that the punishment under clause 36 is only for fine; there is no prison term.
    Hon Minister for Education, you talked about 50 penalty units, but where the person cannot pay, what happens? You want to impose a fine, but where the person cannot pay the fine, what happens?
    Mr Alex Tettey-Enyo 1:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker,
    Mr Alex Tettey-Enyo 1:55 p.m.


    at your committee meeting, this was the decision we have taken. But we need to have a look at it and maybe, take it up tomorrow.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
    Hon
    Boafo, it is only a fine that we have; when the person cannot pay the fine, what happens?
    Mr Boafo 1:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I felt that the
    fine was too small, that is why they did not advert their attention to imprisonment.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
    But the
    point is that, where the person cannot pay, what happens?
    Prof. Oquaye 1:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if there
    is a fine, there must be some other alternative, custodial. Because, in fact, sometimes it is not even a matter that the person cannot pay, the person does not want to pay, impudently refuses to pay, then the law must do something else with that person.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
    Hon
    Minority Leader, I think we should then end the Consideration Stage here so that we can go and clean up, because I have never seen any law like this where it is only a fine. When the person refuses to pay, what happens? Is that the end of the matter?
    Mr Tettey-Enyo 1:55 p.m.
    We will look at that situation and bring up an amendment tomorrow.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
    Very well.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:55 p.m.
    Mr
    Speaker, I think that should be the resort. We have further consideration of the issue brought by the Hon Member for Akropong and deferred it till tomorrow. And so while we are at it, Mr Speaker, now that the Hon Minister is here -- yesterday, I think in respect of the Long Title, I proposed that in deleting article 28, they should rather insert article 25 of the Constitution. So if the Chairman would take it.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
    Have you filed an amendment?
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:55 p.m.
    Mr
    Speaker, with respect, I thought that was most commonsensical and I expected the Chairman to take it on board.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:55 p.m.
    Chairman,
    discuss it with the Hon Minister and then if there is the need to file an amendment, then you can file it.
    Mr Boafo 2:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, it is good that we are stopping at this stage because I have also filed additional amendments relating to transitional provisions and revocations and savings.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
    From the
    Deed of Trust to Act?
    Mr Boafo 2:05 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
    Hon
    Members, on that note, the House is accordingly -
    rose
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
    Hon
    Minority Leader? Hon Majority Leader?
    Mr Avoka 2:05 p.m.
    I have nothing useful to
    say.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
    On that note, the House is accordingly adjourned till tomorrow.
    rose
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
    It is after
    two o'clock -
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker,
    really I have nothing. But Mr Speaker, it is taking you close to two years to
    Mr Avoka 2:05 p.m.
    That cannot take place
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:05 p.m.
    Hon
    Members, on that note, the House is accordingly adjourned till tomorrow at ten o'clock in the morning.
    Thank you very much for your support.
    ADJOURNMENT 2:05 p.m.