Debates of 4 Nov 2010

MADAM SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:20 a.m.
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon Members, Correction of Votes and Proceedings of Wednesday, 3rd November, 2010.

In the absence of any correction, the Votes and Proceedings of Wednesday, 3rd November, 2010 is adopted as the true record of proceedings.
Prof. Dominic K. Fobih 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, there is no page 3. So I cannot find my name.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
There is no page 3 on your document? We have pave 3 here. Can you look at it? [Pause.]
All right. So shall we move on to Questions? The Minister for Transport, is he here? We have the Question standing in the name of the Hon Member for Ahafo- Ano South, Mr Stephen K. Balado Manu.
ORAL ANSWERS TO 10:20 a.m.
QUESTIONS 10:20 a.m.
MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT 10:20 a.m.
Minister for Transport (Mr Mike Allen Hammah) 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, data available at the National Road Safety Commission indicate that, between 2005 and 2009, road traffic crashes recorded at Kunsu section of the Kumasi-Tepa road was 26. Out of these crashes, a total number of 3 people died while 11 were seriously injured and 25 slightly injured.
Contributory factors for the accidents
As a result of the good condition of the Kunsu section of the Kumasi MankrasoTepa-highway, a lot of drivers travelling to Tepa use the Mankraso stretch instead of Bechem, inducing traffic to the Mankraso link to Tepa. According to the Ashanti Regional Office of the National Road Safety Commission (NRSC) and the Motor Transport Traffic Unit (MTTU), excessive speeding was identified as a major contributory factor to the accidents recorded.
Measures taken by the NRSC to manage the accidents
Madam Speaker, the NRSC in 2008, equipped the MTTU in the Ashanti Region with speed enforcement equipment (radar guns) to enhance the enforcement of speed limits.
Additionally, a joint task force (by NRSC and MTTU in the Ashanti Region) has been constituted to ensure visible police presence on typical crash, prone sections of the Ashanti Region road network, of which the Kunsu section is part.
Furthermore, the NRSC has conducted series of driver-refresher training programmes for commercial vehicle drivers and pedestrians in the Ashanti Region to sensitize and educate them on various road safety measures.
Mr Manu 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in the
Hon Minister's Answer, he has rightly stated that the good condition of the Kunsu section of the Kumasi MankransoTepa road is a contributory factor to the accidents. I want, on behalf of my people to thank the New Patriotic Party (NPP) Government for building this road for us.
Now, the question is this, given the high number of accidents which according to him, is induced by excessive speeding as the major contributory factor, what is the minor contributory factor to the accidents? He has given the major ones, what are the minor contributory factors?
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon Member, is that what your Question was about? Was it not about the number of accidents?
Mr Manu 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Answer has stated categorically the major contributory factors. I want to know if apart from these major contributory factors, there are other contributory factors before we can arrest the problems in its totality.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Well, let us hear from him then, what he says.
Mr Hammah 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, yes, there are other minor contributory factors like mechanical faults. But that only constitutes about 10 per cent; but the major contributory factor is the flagrant violation of traffic rules and regulations of which overspeeding is one.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon Member, your second question, please.
Mr Manu 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, if I should proffer another minor -- which he may consider minor. The potholes on the road are also one of the contributory factors. May I, therefore, know from the Hon Minister if his Ministry is prepared to cause the sealing of those potholes?
Mr Hammah 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my
Ministry is not responsible for patching potholes but just to let my Hon Brother understand the fact that - the paradox is that, as you rightly said, when the roads are in good condition, the temptation is for people to overspeed and that is why we have a lot of crashes.
Normally, when you have potholes, people rather slow down and statistics from the National Road Safety Commission indicate that, when the roads are poor, people take their time. That is not to say that the road should not be maintained. The important factor is the human error and it is because of flagrant violation of traffic rules and regulations. Once we do that we will be able to reduce road accidents.
Thank you.
Mr Manu 10:30 a.m.
In order to check excess speed by the drivers, would the Hon Minister consider in that section -- in fact, it is at the outskirts of Kunsu town -- would he consider building speed ramps to check the excess speed of the drivers -- [Interruptions.] Madam Speaker, they are talking about no speed ramps on highways; the Accra-Kumasi road has speed ramps and so do Accra-Cape Coast- Takoradi road. So I do not think that is a bar to making speed ramps on that road to save lives. Indeed, he said three people died. It is more than that. [Interruptions.]
On one occasion, I chanced on an accident, and even in that accident, I helped pull out about four bodies. That is what motivated me to put the Question. So would the Ministry consider building speed ramps on that section of the road?
Mr Hammah 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, it
is not the responsibility of the Ministry of Transport to build road ramps but I will pass on his concerns to the Ministry of Roads and Highways and I am sure it would be looked at.
Mr Catherine A. Afeku 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Hon Minister what measures he is taking in

the upcoming years -- if there are any measures for the National Road Safety Commission to be empowered. They seem to have a lot of shortcomings. They want to really be visible in handling these unfortunate loss of lives on our roads and I would want to find out from him, what can we do to broaden the education that they have undertaken to all parts of Ghana including Mankranso.
Mr Hammah 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the National Road Safety Commission currently has quite a number of programmes that they are rolling out, but the good thing about it is that, they have what we call the road safety policy document which has been outdoored and that policy document seeks to underpin and validate all the road safety interventions over the years from 1996 to 2008. It will also to provide the framework to harmonise and integrate all road safety activities because road safety cuts across various sectors. It is multi- sectorial and inter-agencies.
Additionally, it is also to develop what we call the Road Safety Strategy Paper. The strategy (Paper II) is ending this year and the Paper III will commence early next year. We have also developed an action plan to be able to address the concerns that we have just raised. But in all these situations, the difficulty has been with the resources to be able to implement these programmes and this is the challenge that is confronting them.
We have made a case to Government and it is looking at it critically. We are also talking to other donors because previously, Danish International Development Agency (DANIDA) used to assist the National Road Safety Commission in terms of funding for their road safety activities but it was truncated for some reasons. We are talking to them so that it can be reinstated. These are some of the issues but the crux of the matter is that, funds or moneys that are needed to prosecute these projects,
programmes and activities are currently inadequate.
Dr Kojo Appiah-Kubi 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in the response of the Minister, he said that he had conducted a series of driver refresher training programmes and for pedestrians as well but these are all piecemeal at boosting road safety education. What are the measures that his Ministry has undertaken to link up with the Ministry of Education to introduce permanently road safety education into the school curriculum as pertains in other countries?
Mr Hammah 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, yes, he is right. As I speak to you now, we have a collaborative relationship with the Ministry of Education. We have developed a syllabus on that and it is going through the process of being firmed up and once it is done, it will be subject to some stakeholder consultation and it will be outdoored.
Mr Frederick Opare-Ansah 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, as we are all aware, pedestrians vary and they are quite dynamic. In the last paragraph of the Minister's Answer, he said that and I quote --
“. . . the NRSC has conducted series of driver-refresher training programmes for commercial vehicle drivers and pedestrians . . .”
Madam Speaker, can the Hon Minister tell this House what form the training programmes for the pedestrians took and how that ensured that pedestrians who might not be in the immediate vicinity of the road but are potential pedestrians were also taken into account?
Mr Hammah 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, statistics that we have indicate that 40 per cent of fatalities in road accidents are due to pedestrians who cross the road and do not actually take good care and drivers who overspeed. These programmes that
we had, we targeted various stations and areas where we think that - like lorry stations -- we expect passengers to, as it were, board vehicles at the stations--
We are also looking at school children who are the most vulnerable because if you look at the statistics that we have, majority of the people who have actually died as a result of being knocked down by vehicles are school children.
So we also target school children and educate them through -- sometimes we organize fora where there is education on how to cross the road; you will have to stop and listen and look left and right -- all these education are ongoing. So it is a targeted group and it has been designed in such a way that we will carry it out to areas where we think it will have the maximum impact and areas where we think will have the greatest fatalities.
Mr Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister is telling Ghanaians that he has organized driver-refresher training programmes for both drivers and pedestrians - driver- refresher training programmes for pedestrians - What is the form of that programme to pedestrians? What is the form?
Madam Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Minister, he wants an explanation.
Mr Hammah 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, there are different modules. There is a different module for driver-refresher training course and another module for pedestrians; there are different modules.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister is introducing another matter - the matter of modules. In his own Answer, he had said that he has organized or they had conducted a series of driver-refresher training programmes

for commercial vehicle drivers. That is understood. And they had organized in the same breath, driver refresher-training programmes for pedestrians.

What is the content of that driver refresher training programme? We want to know -- and its relevance to pedestrians? [Interruption.] You have said that you had conducted drivers-refresher training programmes for pedestrians; that is what you have told us. What is the content of the driver-refresher training programme and what is its relevance to pedestrians?
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Any explanation?
Mr Hammah 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, it is very important for drivers to understand the behaviour of pedestrians. So in the refresher courses, you also include the way pedestrians cross the road. So the drivers must be aware what to look out for . You know that sometimes a pedestrian can make a mistake and inadvertently cross the road? So in the training, the modules have been built in such a way that they include the pedestrians' behaviour.
That is why I am saying there are different modules - there is one module for driver-refresher training because there has to be a continuous training of drivers - it is very, very important to update their skills. Then it is also important that pedestrians who have also - in this case, they also form one of the very high rate of fatalities - would also have to be educated and sensitized on how to use the road.
So in all these cases, there are two different modules. I do not know whether it is not captured here. But the sense in what I am saying, Madam Speaker, is that there are two different modules - one module is targeted at continuous driver education and training. It is important because every time, there are new dynamics, the road industry is dynamic, it keeps on evolving; so the driver of yesterday is not the driver of today. So the continuous refresher
Mr Hammah 10:40 a.m.


course for drivers to keep them abreast is very relevant. And again, there is also another module to ensure that pedestrians also take care.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, with respect to the Hon Minister, if -
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Are we arguing with him? Are we debating him? You wanted an explanation and I think he has given the explanation that two modules were put together for the driver and the pedestrian behaviours. So is it a new question or -
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, with respect -
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Because the rules are that we do not debate the -
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:40 a.m.
I am not debating him. Madam Speaker, with respect to the Hon Minister, this explanation is not in sync with the answer he has provided. I thought that he was referring to refresher training programmes for drivers and if you like, educational training programmes for pedestrians. But he is telling us that he has organised driver- refresher training programmes for pedestrians - that is, as per the Answer--
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Well, that is what he explained.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:40 a.m.
As per the Answer. So, I think that clearly, there is something wrong with the Answer - that is what I wanted to point out to him. And the pedestrians, for the information of the Hon Minister, would include animals - [Interruption] - Yes -
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Is that the definition for pedestrians? Animals have four legs - [Laughter] - Anyway.
Yes, Hon Minister -
Mr Hennric D Yeboah 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I want to ask the Hon Minister - according to him, the National Road Safety Commission in 2008 sent equipment to the Motor Transport and Traffic Unit (MTTU). I just want to know, every year, are they calibrated?
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Yes, did you understand the question? The question again for him.
Mr Yeboah 10:40 a.m.
How often are the equipment calibrated; the road safety equipment?
Mr Hammah 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I will need to find out. I do not know.
Mr Charles S. Hodogbey 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I would like to know from the Hon Minister, his driver and pedestrian educational programme; does that include dozing, drunk-driving, mechanical checks on vehicles, watching movies on wheels and telephone calls while driving? Would it include these?
Mr Hammah 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, it includes that and many more.
Mr Joseph Osei-Owusu 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister, in his Answer, has identified excessive speeding as the major cause of accidents on the Kunsu section of the Kumasi-Mankranso-Tepa road. I suppose it applies to all areas on our highways. Madam Speaker, I notice that in an effort to check excessive speeding, large sections of the Accra-Kumasi highway have been provided with speed rumps. I would like to know whether that is the Ministry's programme for checking excessive speeding, that is, reducing the highway to urban transportation system, so to speak.
Mr Hammah 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I think that construction of ramps is also
part of the ways of checking overspeeding. We also make sure that there are visible police presence to deter people who over speed. There are other measures but most importantly, whatever the Ministry is doing, we do that in collaboration with the Ministry of Roads and Highways, which is in charge of the engineering aspect. So there are various measures that we put in place to check over speeding.
One is to ensure that we increase police visibility so that they can enforce traffic rules and regulations and secondly, where we think that it is a bit difficult and the area is prone to a lot of accidents, in collaboration with the Ministry of Roads and Highways, we provide these ramps so that they can reduce speed on that stretch of the road.
Thank you.
rose
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
This is the first Question; we have about six Questions. We are spending too much time on this, so let us move on. Let us move to the next Question, 676 - Hon Raphael K. Ahaligah (Afram Plains South) - [Pause]
Well, let us stand it down. Then we move to the next Question, 677 - Hon Edem Asimah (South Dayi) -
Mr Joseph K. Ofori 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Member is not in the Chamber and he has asked me to seek your permission and ask the Question on his behalf.
Landing Site at Dzemeni on the Volta Lake
(Construction)
Q. 677. Mr Joseph K. Ofori (on behalf of Mr Simon Asimah asked the Minister for Transport when the construction of a landing site at Dzemeni on the Volta Lake in the South Dayi District of the Volta Region would start.
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Yes, Hon Minister - Question 677 Question 677 has been asked.
Mr Avoka 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I understand Question 676 - I thought he would answer that one; it has not been asked.
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Nobody was here.
Mr Avoka 10:40 a.m.
676?
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Nobody was here to put the Question, so I moved on. If he comes before Question time ends and we have time, we would do it.
Mr Mike Allen Hammah 10:50 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, provision has been made for the construction of four (4) landing sites along the Volta Lake in the 2011 Budget. It is expected that when the Budget proposals are approved, the construction of the landing sites at Dzemeni would begin within the coming year.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Any other supplementary question? Any more questions? No.
Mr Raphael K. Ahaligah 10:50 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, my Question is no. 676 on the Order Paper, that is in connection with the Volta Lake transport.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Have you just
come in?
Mr Ahaligah 10:50 a.m.
Yes, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
All right. Let us
go back to it.
Mr Ahaligah 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, if
you can -
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Yes I will; let us go back. Let us deal with Question 676 now. Kindly put your Question now, Hon Member.
Ferries for Adawso to Ekye-Amanfrom Crossing
(Arrival)
Q. 676. Mr Raphael Kofi Ahaligah asked the Minister for Transport when the ferries ordered for Agordeke and Ekye- Amanfrom would arrive in the country.
Mr Mike Allen Hammah 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, under the Millennium Challenge Account Project, two (2) ferries are being constructed for Adawso to Ekye- Amanfrom crossing.
Construction works by the contractors, Messrs Arab Contractors Limited. commenced at Akosombo in September, 2010. It is expected that the two (2) ferries would be completed on schedule, that is, by December, 2011.
The MV Fourth Republic ferry, which used to operate the Agordeke to Kpando crossing, accidentally sank in August, 2009 while undergoing repairs at Akosombo. The Ministries of Transport and Food and Agriculture are currently collaborating to find a replacement for the ferry as soon as possible.
Cabinet has given approval for the release of US$8 million for the procurement of two (2) ferries, one of which would be deployed for the Agordeke and Kpando Torkor route.
Meanwhile, the presence of life guards and the military has been increased to ensure safety standards by boat operators.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Hon Member, you have three supplementary questions.
Mr Ahaligah 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I will like to know from the Hon Minister-- I really asked a very specific Question relating to when the two ferries ordered will arrive in this country. I have not heard the Answer.
My people are really suffering, especially Agordeke, which has been cut off from the Afram Plains. So I want to know specifically when the two ferries will arrive in this country; that is my Question.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Hon Minister, he said the Question was, when? Yes, any idea when?
Mr Hammah 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I did explain; the ferries are not being ordered. They are actually being constructed at Akosombo. This is because if it is ordered, there is no way - We do not even have a navigational dock at Akosombo to even deploy it on the lake. That is why we are doing it on our own floating dock.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
That is an answer. Any more questions?
Mr Ahaligah 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I will like to know from the Hon Minister when specifically were these two ferries ordered, when specifically? [Interruption.] No. They told us the ferries were - In the Answer here, they told us the ferries were ordered and so we want to know when. Even if they are building them here, when did they ask them to start building the ferries?
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
The question is, when did they start building the ferries?
Mr Hammah 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I think that they started early part of this year but we started by repairing the floating dock and thereafter, when it was completed, we started building the ferries. So in effect, the repair of the floating dock
which is used to construct the ferry is part of the project work.
So in effect, if he is asking when it was started, it was started when the site was given to them and which the project included rehabilitation of the existing floating dock. Thereafter, we had to begin the construction of the two ferries. The floating dock has been completed and the construction of the ferries are in progress.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Is that satisfactory?
Mr Ahaligah 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I will like to ask the Hon Minister if he can give me a word of hope to be sent to my people that anytime from now, he will help me get the ferries for them.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
In other words, he goes back -- that when will the ferries be - We have not answered that.
Mr Hammah 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, even while we wait for the two new ferries to be constructed, Agordeke's case is special. We actually had a committee to look at the Agordeke's case and then the report of the Committee indicated that in the short and the immediate-term, we are looking at having what we call a “lake transport” which can carry about a hundred passengers, which can easily be constructed outside the country and be deployed onto the lake.
So in the short and the immediate-term, we are looking at it and as soon as the necessary funds become available, we will bring that in to alleviate the difficulties and challenges that they face in the short and immediate-term, while we wait for the construction of the two new ferries to be completed.
Mr Ahaligah 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, may I know if the Hon Minister will be in a position to give us a temporary pontoon
to be ferried across Agordeke to Kpando because my people are using boats now and these boats are very dangerous. As far as he is the Hon Minister for Transport, he knows. So will he help us to get, at least one pontoon to be used from Agordeke to Kpando?
Mr Hammah 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my Hon Friend will agree with me that we deployed a ferry in the interim to help them out. That was during the time when the yam season had actually gone down but now, we have a difficulty in sharing the ferry as it stands with Agordeke. But if he has put this across, we will look at it again and see how best in the interim we could share the ferry with Agordeke, while we wait for the lake transport to come in; we would look at it.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
All right.
Ms Akua S. Dansua 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, first of all, I would like to commend Government for considering the Kpando- Tokor-Agordeke route as far as the replacement of the ferry is concerned.
I want my Hon Colleague to explain whether the two ferries that Cabinet has released US$8 million for additional ferries to the Millennium Challenge Account ferries. Are they additional?
Mr Hammah 10:50 a.m.
Yes, Madam Speaker, they are additional. They are additional ferries.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Yes, any more questions?
Let us move to the next Question then, that is Question No. 755.
Mr Kwabena Owusu-Aduomi 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, Hon Johnfiah is on official duties in Koforidua and he has asked me to seek your permission to ask this Question on his behalf.
Madam Speaker 11 a.m.
All right.

Boankra Port (Operationalisation)

Q. 755. Mr Kwabena Owusu-Aduomi

(on behalf of Mr Samuel Johnfia) asked the Minister for Transport what effort the Ministry was making to ensure that the Boankra Port became fully operational to discharge the services it was mandated to perform.
Mr Mike Allen Hammah 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Boankra Inland Port Project was conceived with the following objectives:
to help Ghana achieve the objectives of the Ghana Trade and Investment Gateway (GHATIG) Project;
to enhance the operational efficiency of both the Tema and Takoradi Ports through decongestion;
to bring import and export services closer to the doors of shippers in the northern half of Ghana, as well as those coming from Burkina Faso, Mali and Niger;
to enhance the competitive position of Ghana for the benefit of shippers in Ghana; and
to f ac i l i t a t e g rea te r l eve l s of international trade with the landlocked countries of Burkina Faso, Mali and Niger and to position Ghana as the most preferred transit corridor in West Africa.
M a d a m S p e a k e r, t h e p r o j e c t implementation was designed in three (3) phases.
Phases 1
This initial phase involves the
preparation of the land area, fencing of the entire land and provision of utilities, such as water, telecommunication and electricity, as well as temporary access road.
It also includes the construction of administrative complex (dubbed the Shippers' Centre), which has been completed. This phase was financed by the Ghana Shippers' Authority.
Phase 2
The phase 2 entails the development of the project estates, that is, customs bonded and unbonded estates, vehicle and car parking lot, commercial estates, light industrial estates and social/civic estates.
This phase has not progressed as expected due to the difficulty in finding investors to execute the projects.
Phase 3
Phase 3 of the project is considered the long-term future development of the Boankra Inland Port, and it is envisaged that the establishment of the Inland Port would facilitate the creation of an export processing zone.
Challenges
Madam Speaker, the project is faced with a number of challenges, which include difficulties in sourcing for funds on a Public-Private Parnership (PPP) basis, to complete the project.
Many prospective investors have expressed interest and made enquiries about the project to be undertaken on PPP.
So far, three (3) companies have gone beyond their expression of interest and have entered into Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with the Ghana Shippers' Authority. These are:
(1) China Harbour Engineering;
Mr Owusu-Aduomi 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker,
the Hon Minister has indicated in his response to this Question at page 12, the second paragraph of the phase 2 --“the difficulty in finding investors to execute the projects.” Luckily, three investors have expressed interest; how does the Ministry see their level of interest? Is it high enough to lead to signing of a binding contract?
Mr Hammah 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, we are still in the process; the process that we are currently engaged in. So, as soon as the process is concluded and we are convinced that we have value-for- money, and all other parameters having
been addressed, I am sure we will sign a permanent contract.
Madam Speaker 11 a.m.
Hon Member, any other question?
Mr Owusu-Aduomi 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the viability of this land port depends on the operation of the eastern railway line, how far has the Ministry gone in its arrangement to rehabilitate this line as indicated in the Hon Minister's Answer?
Mr Hammah 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Ministry has actually come out for an expression of interest and for the construction of the rail systems including the eastern line, that is, the western, eastern and central lines. We are currently evaluating those proposals and when we finish, as soon as we are able to shortlist potential investors who we believe may have the capacity and the wherewithal to execute these projects, I am sure we will go further to do a request proposal; both financial and technical, and we will be able to evaluate them and I believe that the project can start from there.
Mr Owusu-Aduomi 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, at the mid-year review of the Ministry of Transport in Koforidua, I was present and Ghana Aid Development Authority informed us that a Chinese company, Eastern Railway Line, was interested in doing the feasibility study. I expected the Hon Minister to, maybe, talk on this and to tell the House how far the feasibility study has gone. But the way he answered it, he has generalized it as if the Question is on all rail lines in the country.
I want him to be specific on this Eastern Railway Line. How far has the Chinese company gone with the feasibility study on the eastern corridor of our rail lines, please?
Mr Hammah 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, it is a two-prong approach. While we are

looking for some specific collaboration with some specifics on a bilateral basis, like Ghana-China -- following the President's visit, we are also looking at the possibility of opening that to the other investors.

But to address his concern, yes, we cannot start any project without feasibility studies and currently, we do not as it were, have feasibility reports for the western and central lines and for that reason, the Chinese who have come in are also -- We have entered into a memorandum of understanding with them and given them a very short time to complete their feasibility study of the eastern line and thereafter, if it is found to be viable, we will then proceed with the other activities.

But for now, it is a two-prong approach. Because we do not have the money, I have to remind Hon Members that investment in railways is huge and if Government has to use our budgetary allocation to invest in railways, there will be no monies left for the other sectors in the economy. The World Bank does not also fund or invest in railways. I do not want to talk about it but the challenge here is that, inasmuch as we are desirous of rehabilitating the railways, the reality is that we probably have to look at other - We do not have to put all our eggs in one basket. That is why we have a two-prong approach -- a government with bilateral arrangement with government.

Also, looking at the private sector-- because with the current legal and regulatory environment which has been established, which separates the legal regime from the regulatory aspect of the operation of the Ghana Railway company, the private sector now feels more comfortable to invest in the railway. So it is a two-prong arrangement; we are looking at the individual investors and at the bilateral level, we are also looking at some collaboration with some other

countries.
Mr Owusu-Aduomi 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my last question, please --
Madam Speaker 11 a.m.
You have finished with your three supplementary questions.
Mr Owusu-Aduomi 11 a.m.
I have one last question, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 11 a.m.
I have marked you down as third question finished; I do not know whose record is right but I should think mine should be right. So we move on.
Any other Hon Members who want to ask questions?
Mr Kwabena O. Darko-Mensah 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister, from his Answer on the rail lines to Boankra sounded very general. But we know recently the President travelled to China for a US$13 billion loan. I was wondering why that did not come up in his Answer to the Question because he is saying that money is difficult to come by. Meanwhile, just a few weeks ago, the Government travelled and we are told that monies that they have been able to secure will be part of the money that would be used to do the eastern line. So I would want to know what his position is on that matter.
Madam Speaker 11 a.m.
Can you enlighten us?
Mr Hammah 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the President's visit was just recent and the GRDA has been in operation for almost one and a half years now and what the GRDA had done was to also look at prospective investors, that is why we were called to create legal and regulatory environment to allow private investors to invest. So while we are waiting for Government to look at government to government bilateral arrangement, of course, nothing stops them from trying to
attract the private sector to invest in the rail sectors.
So yes, the President's visit was just recently and it is also an addition to what the Railway Development Authority started about one and a half years ago. That is ensuring that we can shortlist potential investors who have the capacity and the wherewithal to be able to invest in the railway sector.
Mr Mathias K. Ntow 11:10 a.m.
Mr Speaker,
I want to know from the Hon Minister -- Already the construction of the inland port has not been completed and now he is bringing in the construction of railway lines to the area. Please, may I know, is the Ministry is not biting more than they can chew?
Mr Hammah 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I do
not know if he can repeat his question. I did not get it.
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Can you repeat
your question for the Hon Minister?
Mr Ntow 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my question is, already the inland port had been initiated some years ago and it has not been completed, but now, he is bringing in an additional construction of railway lines to the place. So I am asking him whether the Ministry is not biting more than it can chew.
Mr Hammah 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, if
the Hon Member did listen to my Answer, I did indicate that part of the challenges we had over the years in getting private sector to invest in the Boankra Inland Project has been the fact that there is no railway connectivity. Because the railway will make it easier and even more cost- effective to transport all these articulated truck loads of containers to the Boankra
Mr Samuel K. Obodai 11:10 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, in the Hon Minister's Answer to the Question, he did indicate that the project was designed to take place in three phases. May I know from him if the memorandum of understanding being signed covers all these three phases?
Mr Hammah 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I
may have to require notice to give you the details. But I believe that it would have more to do with the project estate. With regard to the first phase which involved the temporary access roads and provision of water and electricity, the Ghana Shippers' Authority is funding that. The most difficult part of it is the project estate, the custom bar and houses, the immigration and other facilities that will ensure that the place becomes operational. That is where we have the greatest challenge.
Mr Francis Addai-Nimoh 11:10 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, I would like to find out from the Hon Minister -- To what extent will the engagement of a transaction advisor be beneficial to the State vis-à-vis the cost in engaging such a transaction advisor?
Mr Hammah 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, we
all know that, quite frankly, you can see that where we lack the capacity to be able to develop the PPP model -- The reality is that, as we speak now, even as a country, the capacity to really deliver on the PPP
project is really being developed. I am sure that recently the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning held a workshop to develop the PPP policy framework and the legal and regulatory regime would also be developed to be able to operationalise the concept.
But the real i ty is that , where Government resources are continuously being constrained as a result of competing demand for the scarce resources, the trend is to look elsewhere, especially at areas where the private sector thinks that they would have a reasonable return on investment, why does Government have to put money there? What is important is to establish the legal regulatory framework where Government can partner the private sector into provision of such strategic investment.
So if we look at the benefit, the benefit is that it would not come from the Government's Consolidated Fund; Government does not have to find money to develop this project estate, the private sector will do that and the private sector will in turn be able to recoup their investment and Government will have the opportunity of using this facility. So with the transaction advisor, yes, if we do not have the capacity, in-house capacity we will outsource.
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
I think the Questions
for the Minister for Transport, we have finished with them.

Thank you very much.

We move now to the Questions dealing with the Hon Minister for Youth and

Sports. Is she here?

We have the next Question from Hon

Benito Owusu-Bio, Member for Atwima- Nwabiagya?
rose
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
But Hon Member,
do not put your Question yet; you wanted a Written Answer to that Question?
Mr Benito Owusu-Bio 11:10 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, I wanted Oral and Written Answers. I think there has been a mistake. I have never asked a Question where I have only demanded for a Written Answer.
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Well, it is here as a
Written Answer and you have been served with the Answer.
Mr Owusu-Bio 11:10 a.m.
No, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I think injustice is being done to me because I asked for the Answer to be given to me.
Madam Speaker, with your permission, I would ask that the original copy of my Question be even produced on the floor.
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
You asked for Oral
and Written Answers?
Mr Owusu-Bio 11:10 a.m.
Yes, the two.
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
But how can you ask for the two?
Mr Owusu-Bio 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I do
it that way so that there would not be an ambiguity as to what I need.
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
What did you
need? You cannot have the two? If it is oral then we print the Answer here.
Mr Owusu-Bio 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, just
like the previous Questions which have been answered, they were already in the
Order Paper and the Hon Minister came here to read them.
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
If you will allow
me, I will work on it before you make your argument. Yours has been listed from the Questions here that you wanted and you have chosen a Written Answer, so that in accordance with Order 64(4), the Clerk's Office will communicate the Answer to you. My order will be, I hereby direct that the Answer to the Question be printed in the Official Report of today's proceedings. That is how we do things. If you will be specific next time and ask for oral -- but you cannot ask for two, three -
Mr Owusu-Bio 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
I think my Question is being dodged because I quite remember I never asked that the Question must be answered only in written form.
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
But whom did you
think was going to choose one for you? You had to choose whether you wanted it written, then there is a procedure for it, and then the oral too, there is a procedure for it. So if you put two or three -- oral, written and urgent, the Speaker, in approving it, will choose one for you.
Mr Owusu-Bio 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
I have made copies of it already and I distributed them to almost every Hon Member in this House.
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
The Answer?
Mr Owusu-Bio 11:10 a.m.
Yes. I have made copies of it because I saw that an anomaly has been done, so I quickly made copies.
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
So it will be printed
in today's proceedings. That is the order in accordance with our Standing Orders. So next time, be more specific.
Mr Owusu-Bio 11:10 a.m.
So Madam Speaker,
is the Hon Minister going to answer it?
Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
No. The Hon
Minister is not going to answer it because you chose or it was chosen that it should be written, and under our rules, when it is written, you will be served with an Answer and then another will be made -- But it will be listed and you will be served with the Answer and then we will print it. So maybe, the mistake should be corrected the next time.
Hon Member, I thank you very much.
WRITTEN ANSWERS TO 11:10 a.m.
QUESTIONS 11:10 a.m.
MINISTRY OF YOUTH AND 11:10 a.m.
SPORTS 11:10 a.m.
Minister for Youth and Sports (Ms Akua Sena Dansua) (MP) 11:10 a.m.
Since the four Sports Stadia were handed over to the National Sports Council after the CAN 2008, the Council in consultation with the sector Ministry, is managing these facilities as follows:
Stadium Security:
Ohene Djan Stadium - Magnum Security Limited
Sekondi Stadium -- Magnum Security Limited
Baba Yara Stadium - Skones Security Limited
Tamale Stadium - Skones Security Limited
Sanitation and Cleanliness at the four stadia outsourced to Zoomlion
  • [Printed under Standing Order 64 (4)]
    • -- 11:10 a.m.
    Madam Speaker 11:10 a.m.
    Are you going to
    ask a question, Hon Hackman Owusu- Agyemang?
    Mr Hackman Owusu-Agyemang 11:20 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, I just want to come to the aid of our Hon Colleague. He says he did not ask for a Written Answer.
    Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Ah, but did you not hear that? He says he asked for a Written and Oral Answer. How can he do that?
    Mr Owusu-Agyemang 11:20 a.m.
    Let me hear
    - So that I can hear, Madam Speaker.
    Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Well, anyway, once I have ruled, I do not want to hear you. But we can talk about this in chambers.
    Shall we move to the next Question because I have made the order that the Answer be printed in the today's Hansard.
    The next Question is to the Ministry of Youth and Sports again. Hon Simons Addai, Hon Member for Techiman South?
    ORAL ANSWERS TO 11:20 a.m.
    QUESTIONS 11:20 a.m.
    MINISTRY OF YOUTH AND 11:20 a.m.
    SPORTS 11:20 a.m.
    Minister for Your and Sports (Ms Akua Sena Dansua) 11:20 a.m.
    The Ministry is aware of the state of the Techiman Sports Park, and has taken steps to get the facility secured from encroachers and this is why the facility has been walled.
    Meanwhile, to keep the facility operat ional , the Nat ional Sports Council has appointed a District Sports Development Officer in the person of Mr Ebenezer Omari Denkyira, attached to the Techiman Municipal Assembly, to be responsible for sports development in the municipality.
    The National Sports Council has received approval from the Head of Civil Service for the employment of 650 personnel and is awaiting financial clearance from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning to do so. This would enable the Council place permanent staff in the various districts.
    I wish to emphasise, however, that Metropolitan, Municipal and District Assemblies (MMDAs) are now responsible for sports and youth development at that level while the Ministry now focuses mainly on national sports policy and major national and international sporting concerns.
    I, therefore, advise the Techiman Municipal Assembly to take steps to complete the project.
    Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Yes, you have three supplementary questions.
    Mr Addai 11:20 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, the Techiman Municipal Assembly is up to its responsibility of constructing the sports park. We are only asking for some form of assistance. Is the Hon Minister telling us that the Ministry has not got anything to offer us?
    Ms Dansua 11:20 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, I was very clear in my response that sports and youth development concerns are now to be handled by the MMDAs, while the main Ministry concentrates on national and international youth and sporting concerns.
    So, it is clear from my Answer that the Techiman Municipal Assembly must take steps to complete the project.
    Mr Addai 11:20 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, is the Hon Minister aware that the absence of better sports park is affecting sports development in the municipality?
    Some Hon Members 11:20 a.m.
    She is not aware.
    Ms Dansua 11:20 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, I did not hear the question very well.
    Mr Addai 11:20 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, I am asking that, is the Hon Minister aware that the absence of a better sports park is affecting sports development in the municipality.
    Ms Dansua 11:20 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, I am not aware but it is obvious that the lack of facilities and also infrastructure affects sports development anywhere; whether at the district or national level. And this is why we are urging the MMDAs to help us in developing these facilities.
    Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Have you finished?
    Mr Addai 11:20 a.m.
    Yes.
    Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Thank you.
    Prof. Christopher Ameyaw-Akumfi 11:20 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, my Hon Colleague from Techiman South asked about a stadium and the Hon Minister is talking about sports park. Can we know the difference and why should Techiman be provided with a park instead of a stadium?
    Ms Dansua 11:20 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, the facility as it exists now, is a sports park; it is not yet a stadium.
    Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi 11:20 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, does it mean the Hon Minister will have to come again? This is because the Question is about a stadium, not a park. So, can she -
    Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Hon Member, you do not challenge. She says it is a park.
    Yes, next question. Our time is up.
    Mr Joseph Osei-Owusu 11:20 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, I am referring to the Answer offered by the Hon Minister, which says that --
    “I wish to emphasise, however, that Metropolitan, Municipal and District Assemblies (MMDAs) are now responsible for sports and youth development at that level …”
    May I know whether this is a policy shift in view of the manifesto of NDC which says the government will build a 5,000 -- actually it says 50,000 but they clarified and said 5,000 capacity stadium at every district?
    Ms Dansua 11:20 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, the Ministry is going by a Legislative Instrument (L. I.) which we passed here in this House last year - L. I. 1961 on the creation of departments in Assemblies. And under this L. I., all
    MMDAs are supposed or are expected to create departments for sports and youth development.
    Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Hon Members, Question time is over; one hour has passed. The other Question -- the last Question's Answer will be printed. We have one hour for Questions; it is passed. And when that happens -
    rose
    Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Hon Member, you know the rules that when we have finished with the Questions - Or are you saying we have not finished with that Question?
    Yes, Hon Member, what were you objecting to?
    Mr Justice Joe Appiah 11:20 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, my Question.
    Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Which Question? I have not asked you to put that Question, have I? I say the one hour we have for Question time, we have well passed it. So, when we do not finish with the Questions, we print the Answers in today's proceedings. So, we are following the rules strictly.
    rose
    Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Yes, Hon Minority Leader, even though I have ruled, I would hear you. But I have ruled, that it will be printed because I do not know what you are going to raise.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:20 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for the clarification.
    Madam Speaker, I know that most times you are minded to protect women, and in particular, women Ministers --
    Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    And is this not a protection? [Laughter.]
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:20 a.m.
    But Madam
    Speaker, with respect, I know that often
    times Question time has extended beyond one hour but -
    Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    It was because we had time. We do not have time, you know. We do not have time. If there is time to finish with the programme, I do allow it. But look at the things that are listed for today and I intend, henceforth, to stick strictly to the Orders.
    I think you have urged upon me to follow the rules and finally, I have yielded completely to your request.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:30 a.m.
    Madam
    Speaker, I thank you very much for this further elucidation. But Madam Speaker, in such cases, if the Speakership is minded to respect the rules strictly, I thought that maybe, Leadership would have been sounded and is usual; we will then say that per a Question that is asked, maybe, we would not allow for more than two, three supplementary questions and then we move on to the others in order that all Questions would be asked. But this comes as a surprise, really -
    Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    No, no. It should be a surprise; it is the first day of announcing this. So you can put your heads together and maybe come to the decision that henceforth, in view of this ruling, you are going to get two supplementary questions instead of one; then you inform the House. I think that is the procedure.
    Mr. Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:30 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, I offer no further challenge, but I thought that really we ought to have been sounded.
    Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Well, I think that is a very honourable way of behaving in this House because when the Speaker makes a ruling, unless it is officially challenged --

    Upon that note, Hon Minister, thank you for coming to answer our Questions.

    Ghana at the 2010 FIFA World Cup

    (Expenditure)

    *754. Mr Justice Joe Appiah asked the Minister for Youth and Sports how much money was spent on the Ghana contingent at the 2010 FIFA World Cup.
    Minister for Youth and Sports (Ms Akua S. Dansua) (MP) 11:30 a.m.
    Madam Speaker, the Government released an amount of USD8,062,389.10 and the actual expenditure was US$ 7,195,185.40.
    The details are:
    Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Hon Members,
    11.30 a.m. -- MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Hon Majority Leader?
    Mr Cletus A . Avoka 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, it is our determination and commitment to complete the Students Loan Trust Fund Bill, 2010. So we will tackle item (8) at page (3) and then see how far we can go in this matter.
    Thank you.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Hon Members, Students Loan Trust Fund Bill, 2010 -At the Consideration Stage.
    Mr Isaac K. Asiamah 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I come under Standing Order 48. In view of Madam Speaker's ruling that we should go strictly according to the rules, I wish that we
    should respectfully obey this rule or this Standing Order 48 that the presence of, at least,
    one-third of all Members of Parliament besides the person presiding, shall be necessary to constitute a quorum of the House. So it is the issue of quorum in this House. I do not think we have the right number to continue with the business of the House today.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Well, I have to get in touch with the Table Office and let them get me the number. But even after they have done that, you know that we have some number of minutes that they have to ring the bell and thereafter, we will know what to do.
    Mr Frederick Opare-Ansah 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I just want to advert your mind to Order 48 (2) which says and with your permission I quote:
    “If at the time of Sitting a Member takes notice or objection that there are present in the House, besides the person presiding, less than one-third of the number of all the Members of Parliament, and after an interval of ten minutes a quorum is not present, the person presiding shall adjourn the House without Question put until the next sitting day.”
    Mr Speaker, the objection was raised, and if you look at the time now, it is 33 minutes past 11.00 in the morning. Mr Speaker, I do not see in this Order where it is said that we should wait for the Clerks- at-the-Table to count us; the Order says that if a Member takes objection and if after ten minutes we do not have a quorum -- So my understanding of the Order is the counting; if it has to be done, is done after ten minutes, and if the situation persists then no further action is taken and Mr Speaker has to adjourn the House.
    So in view of that and are we to take
    it that, it being 33 minutes past 11.00 o'clock, by 11.43 a.m., we would have to take the headcount and then make a determination?
    Mr Sampson Ahi 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think that as a House, we should be fair to ourselves. I see this to be a planned thing, calculated for one of the Members to raise -- Because even the Member of Parliament (MP) for Asante Bekwai, who just asked questions and Member of Parliament for Nwabiagya, Benito Owusu- Bio, who was just asking questions, all of them, they walked out simultaneously. I want to ask you to ask the Clerk to go to where we normally take tea and you will see all of them there. So what is this? I believe that as a House, we should be fair and we should be seen to be serious with the business of this House. This is a calculated attempt -- [Interruptions] This is a calculated attempt to sabotage business of the House and this must not be entertained, Mr Speaker.
    Thank you very much, it is deliberate.
    rose
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Hon Members, the issue of quorum has been raised. I do not intend to take this thing. In any case, I did not say anything different from what the Hon Majority Chief Whip said. I have to be sure that the absence of quorum is confirmed by the Clerks; that is for my guidance. So whatever you say and whatever I said, I do not see the difference in what you are saying and what I have said.
    So Hon Members, we would wait for the ten minutes and then after that I will know the necessary guidance to give. Nobody should fight over this matter.
    Mr Opare-Ansah 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Member -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Hon Member, let me tell you, I respect you.
    11.30 A.M. PAGE 1 (TABLE)
    Mr Opare-Ansah 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am raising a different matter. The Hon Member --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    I am waiting for the ten minutes and then I will give the necessary directive, and I am counting my ten minutes from the time that you raised the matter. So I have called the issue -
    Mr Opare-Ansah 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am raising a different matter. The Hon Member offended Order 93 by imputing improper motives to the Hon Member who raised the matter of quorum. We have all taken oaths here to defend the Constitution of this country which gives powers to our Standing Orders. If a Member rises on his feet and raises the issue of quorum, which is an integral part of our national Constitution, why should another Member then get up to say that he is raising this matter to stop procedure of this House?
    Let the Hon Member know that some Members on the Works and Housing Committee are preparing to leave for - The Chairman is abdicating his responsibilities. Hon Members on my side have come to me and told me that they have to take a trip out to the Volta Region to do some inspection. Then he is abdicating his responsibilities.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Member who is imputing improper motives must withdraw the statements he just made.
    Mr David T Assumeng 11:40 a.m.
    Mr Speaker,

    Thank you, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Ambrose P. Dery 11:40 a.m.
    Mr Speaker,
    I think that just yesterday we were all privileged to listen to many interventions, many speeches about eschewing insults in politics and I think that what my good Friend on the other side has done is first premature because it is not ten minutes yet for you to even say that the quorum has not been achieved. When one starts imputing improper motives, I do not think that is going to help us, especially in this period we have a lot that is coming up. I do not think that we should preach to the whole country that we must not continue to allow insults and insinuations in politics only to start doing it ourselves.
    Mr Speaker, it is clear that Order 93 (2) is against such and I think that we should just allow my Friend to withdraw his statements - [Interruptions.] - Well, it is my humble proposal that he does withdraw that statement because I walked in after the issue of quorum was raised and now there is a statement on the other side suggesting that there is ill-motive on our part to sabotage the work of this House. I take very serious exception to that and I think that he should withdraw it and apologise and let us go on.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    Hon Member, they are saying you are imputing improper motives to them. What do you say to it?
    Mr Ahi 11:40 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, thank you very
    much.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Deputy Minority Leader knows that I can never and will never insult - In fact, how will I insult him? Somebody who can even give birth to me? [Laughter.] I will not stand up and because of parliamentary work, insult him. Never. But what I said was that I saw my Hon Colleagues simultaneously walking out - about twenty of them - What surprised me is that, even those who asked Questions this morning are not around. That was my problem and that is why I thought that this was a well-calculated attempt to sabotage business today. This is just what I am saying. I have never insulted anybody and I do not intend to insult anybody.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:40 a.m.
    Mr
    Speaker, I think the issues are very clear. The Hon Member, by the statement that he has made, attempts to impute improper motives to any Hon Member who has gone out . That is it. And Mr Speaker, the point being made is that his comment offends Order 93 (2) and further Order 93 (5), since it relates to the conduct of their moving out.
    In any event, he is saying that some Hon Members from the Minority side had gone out after Question time. The Hon Minister for Transport himself walked out. The Minister for Youth and Sports also walked out. Is he imputing improper motives to them? [Interruptions.] She has just walked in but she walked out in the first place. She left. [Interruptions.]
    Mr Speaker, we should not contrive
    rose
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    Do you
    have a point of order?
    Ms Dansua 11:40 a.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker. The
    Hon Minority Leader just mentioned my name as having walked out but here I am physically and in full piece, so I do not know why he is referring to me as having walked out. I am here; I have not gone out.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:40 a.m.
    Mr.
    Speaker, with respect to my Hon Colleague, the Minister, she left the Chamber and she has just come back . I am not saying that she has done so out of malice. No, I have not said so. On the contrary, in your absence - you went to the car park - She left the chamber and in her absence, an Hon Colleague of ours made a very denigrating statement - Hon Ahi -- that some people have gone out and questioned their conduct and we are saying that he is imputing improper motives and he must accordingly withdraw the statement. That is all that we are saying and I am saying that - He said that those of them were from this side of the House and I just mentioned her name and said that she left. It does not mean that she is boycotting Parliament.
    Ms Akua Dansua 11:40 a.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker,
    but I am back. I am back in the Chamber.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:40 a.m.
    Mr
    Speaker, the important thing is that she left. She started by saying that she has not left, she is here. The important admission is that she had left and came back. So at a point in time, she was not in the Chamber.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    Hon
    Ahi, they say you have imputed improper motive to them by saying that they walked out to subvert the business of this House and they are not happy with that statement because it tantamounts to imputing improper motive to them. [Interruptions] They say they are not happy with that Statement.
    Mr Ahi 11:40 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I was frightened
    when I saw my Hon Colleagues leaving simultaneously. That was why I made those comments but the Hon Minority Leader knows that it is not my intention to insult or disrespect anybody. If they have taken offence, I withdraw it.
    Mr Hackman Owusu-Agyemang
    -- rose --
    Mr Avoka 11:40 a.m.
    Hon Member, why are
    you standing? Sit down, I have been recognized and you are still standing.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    Hon
    Member, the Hon Ahi has withdrawn the statement, so -
    Mr Avoka 11:40 a.m.
    I just want to appeal to Hon Colleagues of this august House that we have a huge task and responsibilities ahead of us.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Minority Chief Whip who raised the issue of quorum is very much aware that because of the two oil Bills -- The Petroleum Revenue Management Bill and also the Petroleum Exploration and Production Bill are pending and there is a joint Committee on Mines and Energy and Finance which has been meeting since Monday in Koforidua to try to complete proceedings on the Bill to be able to lay it sometime next week, so that we can take it.
    There are other committees that are also meeting within the corridors so that they will be able to complete their assignments for us to be able to do work. We all
    appreciate that, unless there are committee reports before us, we cannot Sit here and do any work.
    Against that background, and he being part of the Leadership of this House, I get surprised that we can be raising issues of quorum when we can marshal about 30, 40 people who are within the premises of the building doing one assignment or another for this august House.
    So I will want to plead that if we take this stance, we will find it difficult to do any assignment in this House between now and the time we rise.
    So I humbly appeal to Hon Members to take note of that, and that even when it comes to legislation --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    Hon Asiamah raised the issue of quorum and you re-enforced it --
    Mr Opare-Ansah 11:40 a.m.
    I was seeking your
    interpretation of the addition of the fact that the Clerks-at-the-Table have to do some counting. I did not raise the matter of quorum. The quorum issue was raised by Hon Asiamah and indeed, there is nothing wrong if a member of Leadership seeks clarification -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    In my
    view, there is everything wrong when the Chief Whip of any side of the House raises it. There is everything wrong with it. If the Whips, either from the Majority side or the Minority side raises the issue of quorum, in my considered opinion, there is everything wrong with it.
    Mr Avoka 11:50 a.m.
    Assuming Mr Speaker, that he did not raise it, he tried to provide further and better particulars about the issue of quorum; he provided further and
    better particulars -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    Hon Members, the quorum has been raised -
    Mr Avoka 11:50 a.m.
    Yes, and I am appealing to Hon Members that let us do work -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    The Hon Member for Juaboso -
    Mr Avoka 11:50 a.m.
    I withdraw your name but - that is all.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    Hon Majority Leader, the Hon Member for Juaboso made a statement but the Minority side was not happy with it, so he has withdrawn it; he has withdrawn the statement. I think that we should now decide what we want to do because I just want to find out from the Leadership of the House --
    We are at the Consideration Stage; we know what is in the Standing Orders and we know the practicality of what we do in this House at the Consideration Stage of Bills. All of us know. We want to know whether we want it to be a precedent we are setting today at the Consideration Stage.
    All of us know what has been happening all these years. We want to know whether we want to raise this matter - I just want to be guided by the House.
    Hon Minority Leader, I want to be guided because we all know how we co-oporate at this level. I know that as a matter of fact.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, thank you very much.
    First of all, it is important to go back to the issue raised by my Hon Colleague, the Hon Majority Leader when he clarified that there were some Hon Members on

    the corridors - I am quoting his words - “trying to complete work” so that the plenary could give consideration to the work that they are about completing.

    Mr Speaker, that reinforces the point that those of them who went out did not go out to ‘drink tea' - as my Hon Colleague said. That point should be clarified.

    Mr Speaker, I am also happy that with respect to the Chair, you are directing that you believe there is everything wrong if Leadership from either side -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    I mentioned the Whips; not Leadership.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:50 a.m.
    You mentioned the Whips?
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    Yes.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:50 a.m.
    So if the Hon Majority Leader raises the quorum, there is nothing wrong with that -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    I mentioned the Whips; I mentioned the Whips -
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker
    - 11:50 a.m.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    I mentioned the Whips - [Laughter] - Hon Minority Leader, I mentioned the Whips.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:50 a.m.
    If that is so, Mr Speaker, I accept that. Except to remind you of your earlier life, when you were the Chief Whip and even Deputy Leader, you were raising matters of quorum from this side and today, there is a new vision. However, that vision would be respected. [Interruptions.]
    Mr Speaker, because now you are in an elevated position - I accept that - [Interruption] - this new vision -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    Hon Minority Leader, can you leave me out of this matter?
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:50 a.m.
    But Mr Speaker, you know my own attitude to matters of quorum has always been that once we start transaction of business, we must be very mindful of this. Because particularly at the Consideration Stage, we have very few people who are very interested. If you go to any jurisdiction, you would see this - sometimes less than ten people transacting business on behalf of the entire House.
    So when issues relating to quorum were being raised when we were on the other side of the House, I was always protesting that we should respect parliamentary practice. Unfortunately, that matter was not heeded and my Hon Colleague -- the Hon Muntaka is looking at me and laughing. Mr Speaker, if we want to count guilty souls - but today, there is a new vision; we respect the new vision.
    Beyond that the difficulty, Mr
    Speaker, is that, Leadership is to help in administering this House and that is why when the matter was raised by the Chair that let us guillotine, “it is one hour, let us respect the rules,”. If we have to respect the rules, then you cannot - principle is indivisible; principle, indeed, is indivisible. You cannot say that let us respect the rules, when we are here and then when we get to this side of the House, let us relax the rules. Mr Speaker, that is what we should -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    Hon Minority Leader, you know that matters of this nature, it is better to discuss them with the Chair at the appropriate time?
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:50 a.m.
    Absolutely.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    So we do not want that; you know it is not in the interest of this House for this matter to be discussed here. So let us altogether see how we can assist to run this House.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, you see, the problem is, when one becomes judgmental, certainly, it calls for response because it is on record that is why we have to go this way.
    However, I agree with you that these matters would have to be discussed. As I said, I have my own position relating to matters of quorum. However, if you say that let us respect the rules, you cannot call us to respect the rules in one section and when we get to another section, you say, let us relax the rules. That is my difficulty. But we can not discuss these matters here.
    Thank you very much.
    Mr Avoka 11:50 a.m.
    So Mr Speaker, we will take a cue from the bench and then the Leadership and the Business Committee would discuss these modalities so that we can do smooth work in this House.
    On that note, I would want to crave the indulgence of my Hon Colleagues that we can do business of the day.
    rose
    An Hon Member 11:50 a.m.
    But Mr Speaker, I raised the issue; I raised the issue.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    Hon Member for New Juaben North -
    Mr Hackman Owusu-Agyemang 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, we are setting precedence in this House and I think it might be properly said, especially when it involves one of the most experienced and the longest serving Members of this House and the Hon First Deputy Speaker.
    Mr Speaker, I have got up about six times, maybe, you did not see me but I wanted to raise an issue. You made a statement, and it is very, very fundamental
    - that if people want to raise issues and thwart, if you like, the work of this House, you are not going to allow it.
    Mr Speaker, it depends upon what is done. Filibustering; to filibuster is a purely legitimate way of handling business in any Parliament. So when you said that I was a bit concerned because if the technique -- and do not forget that there is an alternative to the Government in power. Therefore, the same thing you did when you were here, you should expect the same thing to be done from here.
    It is absolutely difficult for me to accept - I almost said it is unacceptable - I cannot say that of the Rt Hon Speaker, for the Speaker to impute that filibustering is not to be allowed in this House. We have to manage the whole thing properly and it is tactics. If you are Abedi Pele and you are able to dribble past Avoka, then you score a goal; that is all.
    So Mr Speaker, I want to take exception to your statement that filibustering will not be allowed in this House. It must be allowed; it is part of the parliamentary process and we should go on that way. And having said that, I concur with your resolution of the situation.
    I am sitting here; I am not going out. But as the Hon Minority Leader said, when it comes to issues of Consideration, we know - I am with you, I am with him - that it can only be even three people and they can go ahead. But filibustering, Mr Speaker, you can never, never and I will not allow you to take that privilege away, that you cannot take away from us. That is the point I wanted to make.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker noon
    I am very happy with your conclusion. Yes, Hon Members, you see - [Interruption] - I will call you; do not worry, I will call you.
    The Leadership has arrived at a certain
    consensus; I think that let us be guided by it. You know whatever precedence we set today will live to haunt each and every- one of us tomorrow. And that is why, in these matters, I try as much as possible to arrive at a certain consensus so that it does not haunt us tomorrow.

    So that is why I called the Leaders. They have sent a certain signal. I do not know whether you are still insisting.

    Hon Asiamah, in view of what the Leaders have said, what do you have to say?
    Mr I. K. Asiamah noon
    Mr Speaker, I very much appreciate and understand what Leadership of both sides of the House have said. We are all compromising for the sake of mother Ghana; we understand. But in fact, when we strictly obey the Question time, when it got to a Question that was so dear to my heart, a Question on Ghana's participation in the World Cup, the expenditure - And I want to read the Question. [Interruption.] No, no, no, I am all right. Mr Speaker -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker noon
    Hon Member -
    Mr I. K. Asiamah noon
    Mr Speaker, I am all right; I am not going to read that but I want to come - But you see, if you will allow me - No, before you take over, Mr Speaker, if you will allow me to quote Standing Order 79 (6), there is something I want to raise, so if you can go there.
    “ No notice shall be given orally in the House but a Member may orally inform the House of his intention to raise a matter on a Half Hour motion.”
    That Half-hour Motion is that, this Honourable House commissions special
    Mr Avoka noon
    Mr Speaker, I was rising on a point of order that the Hon Member is certainly out of order; he is misleading the House.
    The issue now was one of quorum and from there, he has gone to Half-hour Motion. At least -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker noon
    Hon Member, in all matters of admissibility of a Motion, it is for the Chair and the way you have gone about it, I will not allow that Motion.
    Mr I. K. Asiamah noon
    Explanation. Mr Speaker, at least, explain it to us.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker noon
    Hon Member, let us do things -- We should not create the impression in this House-- I have tried to avoid that line of action that because a certain ruling has been made by the Chair, that is why a certain response is also coming. That is why I said, in all these matters, when the Chair makes a certain ruling, it is for all of us, it is for the Leadership to take the matter up. But it is like a ruling has been made and therefore, a certain response should follow as a result of that ruling. I think that it is not very good for this House.
    So Hon Member, you can see me after adjournment.
    Mr I. K. Asiamah noon
    So Mr Speaker, the quorum issue -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker noon
    You can see me after adjournment. You have compromised on the quorum issue, so I thank you very much.
    Mr I. K. Asiamah noon
    Mr Speaker, no I have not. I said that on condition that you admit this one.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker noon
    I said, see me after adjournment.
    Hon Members, the Students Loan Trust Fund Bill at the Consideration Stage. This Bill has been on the Order Paper for a very long time. This is not a very controversial Bill and it is taking us so long a time. It is already past 12 o'clock and so, let us continue and see whether we can conclude today.
    Hon Members, we were on clause 36 or clause 37 yesterday and the - Hon Chairman, we agreed that you go and work on some amendments to address the clause. Have you done all those things-- [Interruption.] Very well.
    12.07 p.m. -- MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER
    BILLS -- CONSIDERATION noon
    STAGE noon
    Chairman of the Committee (Mr Mathias A. Puozaa) noon
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 37, add the following new, paragraph:
    “(h) means testing.”
    Mr Speaker, the Committee feels that, it is important to have a means of checking on students records to know whether they are rich enough to do the programme on their own.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker noon
    Hon Members, there is another proposed amendment under clause 37 in the name of Hon William Ofori Boafo. Hon Boafo --- [Not present.]
    Chairman of the Committee, do you have any comment? You want to adopt the proposed amendment or otherwise?
    Mr Puozaa noon
    Mr Speaker, though the Hon Boafo is not present, we discussed it and it is very, very acceptable.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 37, add the following new paragraph noon
    “(i) the Complaints Committee of the Fund”.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 37 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Long Title -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
    Chairman of the Committee, you may
    wait a while. [Pause.] We move to - new clause. Chairman of the Committee, when we finish those, we will come to the Long Title. Chairman of the Committee, there is a new proposed amendment.
    Mr Puozaa 12:10 p.m.
    The Long Title?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
    No, we will come to the Long Title after we have finished with the New Clause section, so we are on xix.
    “New Clause, Amendment proposed - add the following after clause 22.” It is unfortunate that it is in the name of Hon Boafo but I suppose you may have a view on it.
    Mr Puozaa 12:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to
    move, after clause 22, add new clause as follows:
    “A borrower who repays the loan in full shall be issued with a certificate of payment within fourteen days after payment by the Board and the certificate shall be conclusive evidence of full payment of the loan.”
    Mr Speaker, we discussed this at length yesterday and I think we want to stand by it.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
    You
    want that also to be stood down?
    Mr Puozaa 12:10 p.m.
    No, it does no harm to the Bill. I think this is very, very relevant.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think that in principle it is a very useful addition. But my worry is, now that we have stated days within which the certificate should be issued, what if the certificate cannot be issued within fourteen days and it goes outside? Does it mean it would not be conclusive evidence of full payment? That is my little worry; otherwise, I think the principle is worth supporting.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
    Hon
    Boafo, it is good you are in the House; we are considering the new clause under xix, “borrower to be issued a certificate of payment” and the issue is, do we need to do it within fourteen days? There should be a certificate or receipt of payment, but why fourteen days and are there any implications in that connection?
    Mr Puozaa 12:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, since
    Hon Boafo is in - but then I believe that it is important to give a time limit for administrative purposes.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
    The
    Chairman of the Committee has indicated that it will be very useful to have a time frame for administrative purposes.
    Yes, Hon Boafo, if you have any comment.
    Mr Boafo 12:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, it is just to
    provide time lines for performance and secondly, it is to protect the interest of the individual so that if fourteen days expire and he needs the certificate for something, he can go to the appropriate forum for a mandamus against the official to compel the official to issue the certificate.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
    Thank
    you, I will put the Question. I can see from the movement of the Hon Minority Leader that he is satisfied.
    Question put and amendment agreed
    to.
    The new clause ordered to stand part
    of the Bill.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
    xx,
    another new clause, Hon Boafo.
    Mr Boafo 12:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to
    move, New Clause, add the following new clause:
    “Civil Liabilities
    (1) A borrower who withdraws from a proposed course of education or is dismissed from an institution, is liable to pay the loan granted for the studies in that institution.
    (2) Where the borrower fails to pay the loan granted by the Board, the guarantor of the loan is liable to pay the loan and the Board shall issue a certificate of payment to the guarantor upon full payment.”
    Mr Speaker, the new clause being proposed is to make a sort of rearrangement. Under the original arrangement, Mr Speaker, we realize that these provisions have been brought under ‘offences' that is, the original clause 36 (4) and (5), but a closer reading of the original subclauses (4) and (5) demonstrated that they are not offences but rather civil liabilities. So this calls for a rearrangement, hence the proposed amendment.
    Mr Puozaa 12:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we have
    discussed this at length and it is accepted.
    Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi 12:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I was reading the first item and the wording “course of education”, it is in the original Bill. I want a clear definition of “course of education”. Withdrawing from a course of education, what are we talking about? Is it
    a programme that we are talking about and if it is a programme, Mr Speaker, students can change programmes.
    In his first year, the programme proposed may be changed in the second year, does it mean that if he withdraws from the first and gets into a second, he is caught by this?
    Mr Puozaa 12:10 p.m.
    Well, I believe this has nothing to do with what the pogramme that Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi is trying to refer to. All that the Committee wants to say is that, in the event of a student just leaving or abandoning the course of study, then that student has to still be liable to pay for whatever he or she has picked from the Fund. That is the purpose of it. And I think the course of study here, perhaps, the Hon Colleague might prefer “programme” or “study.” Would that be better?
    Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, obviously, we have a problem here. For example, if you are in a medical programme and for some reason, you have to change -- we used to do that; we say because of poor performance, go and read general science and that sort of thing. The person may have changed the course or the programme but remains in the institution in a programme or another programme. So we should not specify the course or even the programme.
    If the person withdraws from the institution or gets dismissed, that is when this liability clause will apply. So it is not the course of education but actually, withdrawing from the institution -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Hon
    Chairman, there are times when a student may be advised to change from one course to the other for some technical reasons - from medicine to pharmacy and so on.
    In that case, he will still be a student and a proper one for that matter, and this is where we say:
    “….withdraws from a proposed course of education.”
    So he may have withdrawn from one course but he would still be pursuing another. So let us reframe and make provision for that.
    Hon Boafo, I hope you are with that difficulty? It is a matter of I think, framing it to cover that possible exigency.
    Mr Boafo 12:20 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker, I follow the decision being drawn by Hon Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi. Mr Speaker, if the person withdraws from an accredited course of studies -- because the loan is given to the person to pursue an accredited course, studies or programme, so if he should withdraw from that accredited course of study, I think that may satisfy the anxiety of Hon Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi. [Interruption.] Not every study at all but the accredited one; the one on the basis of which the loan was granted to the borrower.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think I get the fine extension that is being made by the Hon Member for Techiman North. I understand the distinction that you also made. Indeed, if you go back to clause 2 of the Bill, it talks about accredited tertiary institutions and pursuing accredited tertiary programmes.
    Mr Speaker, in these areas, there is no time limit for the pursuit of the accredited programme. So if he withdraws from one programme to pursue another, it may only extend the duration. But he is not left off the hook because it says that “you are liable to pay.” So, if you spent five years because you withdrew, you are still liable to pay. And that is captured appropriately by the amendment being proffered by our
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:20 p.m.


    Hon Colleague.

    So, whereas I understand the distinction that he is making, I think a person is still caught in the web in this new amendment proposed by the Hon W. O. Boafo.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Hon Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi, would that satisfy a situation where a student from medicine is asked to pursue pharmacy, an accredited course?
    Would he fall foul of this provision so far as you can see it, so that we are sure we do not penalise someone unnecessarily? Because a person may move from one accredited course to another course and yet it will be worthwhile.
    Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think the reference to clause 2 clarifies the situation where we are referring to accredited programmes, courses and so on, precisely for the reasons that you gave, that the person may decide to go into another course. So, we should bring that into our clause.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    For the avoidance of any doubt, Hon Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi, if you say we should bring that into this clause, you think we must imply it into it or you want to make an explicit provision?
    Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think by referring to it, you are indicating the nature and the qualification here; accredited tertiary programme or accredited course.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, ensuing from clause (2), if we want to be consistent, we can just use the construction there: “accredited tertiary programme.” It is the same thing, though, and I think that it would be consistent because they mean the same thing.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Very
    well. I think that if you could borrow that expression here, it will make life easier. Then, it is not just “an accredited programme”, so it can be any accredited programme, then I think it is for the avoidance of doubt.
    Hon W. O. Boafo, can you help us with a formulation in that connection?
    Mr Boafo 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the new proposed subclause (1) will now read as follows:
    “A borrower who withdraws from an accredited tertiary programme
    …”
    So, we delete “a proposed course of education” and insert “an accredited tertiary programme.”
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Thank
    you, very much.
    Hon Chairman of the Committee, I hope you are all right with this?
    So, you may withdraw from one programme and yet not have completely gone out of a programme of the university.
    Question put and amendment agreed
    to.
    New Clause as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Hon Members, there is another new clause (xxi), the proposed amendment stands in the name of Hon W. O. Boafo.
    Mr Boafo 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, before I move my amendment, I would like to invite the Table Office to see how best they can fit in the new clause.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Very
    well. The Table Office should take care of that.
    Mr Boafo 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, new clause, add the following new clause:
    “Transitional Provision”
    Until the composition of the Complaints Committee of the Fund, the functions of the Complaints Committee of the Fund shall be exercised by the Minister.”
    Mr Speaker, the next amendment is to provide for transitional arrangement and this is in relation to the Complaints Committee of the Fund.
    Mr Speaker, under the Bill, if a student is dissatisfied with the decision of the Board, the right of appeal is given to him to lodge his appeal with the Complaints Committee of the Fund. Mr Speaker, the Bill does not go further to constitute the Complaints Committee of the Fund but instead, we have just approved a proposed amendment to clause 37 to enable the Hon Minister, by regulations, constitute the complaints committee.
    So the transitional provisions are to cater for what should be done during the interim, that is, between now and the time of assent to the Bill and the time that the Hon Minister will make regulation to constitute the Complaints Committee of the Fund. The transitional provisions seek to empower the Hon Minister to take up these complaints on appeal so that there would be no vacuum.
    Mr Puozaa 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I wonder whether we really need to make this part of the law because at the moment, they
    are already working. They have a way of resolving issues. And this is a document that is expected to be lasting; not for any particular moment. So, I think that we are going too much into detail.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    In this case, would you want to leave that matter to the Hon Minister? I think our tendency now is to take as much from the Executive authority as possible. That looks --
    Hon Boafo, it is said that, after all the process is in motion and that this would not be necessary. What is your view- point?
    Mr Boafo 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am only concerned with where the Fund will derive its power to compose the --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    Are you
    inclined to abandon it in view of the Hon Chairman's response?
    Mr Boafo 12:30 p.m.
    Well, then I withdraw it.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    Very well.
    T h e p r o p o s e d a m e n d m e n t i s accordingly withdrawn.
    Mr W. O. Boafo 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, xxii. new clause, add the following new clause:
    “Revocation and Savings
    (1) The Trust Deed which established and incorporated the Students Loan Trust Fund under the Trustees
    Mr Puozaa 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we accept the two amendments, (1) and (2) because they are just -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    They are essentially consequential?
    Mr Puozaa 12:30 p.m.
    Yes.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    New clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clause 38 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    Hon Majority Leader, we would have moved on to the Long Title but we would have to finish the outstanding clauses first. May I know the position as of this stage regarding the clause that was -
    Mr Avoka 12:30 p.m.
    Yes, I agree, we have to go back to finish with the outstanding one before we consider the Long Title.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    If you could kindly draw our attention -- with the assistance of the Hon Chairman of the Committee, what are the outstanding clauses?
    Mr Puozaa 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, it is clause 3, at page 3 of the Order Paper.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    On page 3 of the Order Paper, item 8 (i), clause 3 -- there is a proposed amendment in the name of the Hon Chairman of the Committee.
    Hon Chairman of the Committee, is there any development?
    Mr Puozaa 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 3, add new paragraphs (k) and (h)
    “one per cent of moneys taken from the Communications Service Tax Act.”
    Mr Speaker, we have been advised
    against proposing a tax. And whatever arrangement that should be done, the Fund can negotiate that - [Interruption.] That is the Trust Fund.
    Papa Owusu-Ankomah 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I disagree with the Hon Chairman. Taxation is imposed by Parliament upon a Bill introduced by the President on his behalf. This is a Bill being introduced by the President and there is nothing wrong with Parliament deciding that because of the importance we attach to
    this Fund, it should have a dedicated source irrespective of any other source that Government may consider necessary.
    At least, with one per cent of the Communications Service Tax revenue being lodged with the Fund, we can be certain that at any time we have a minimum sum of money available to the Fund for disbursement. So, I would urge the Hon Chairman not to abandon this amendment which was accepted by the Hon Members of the Committee. And I know the Hon Chairman has not consulted other Hon Members of the Committee, particularly the Hon Ranking Member about withdrawing this amendment.
    I therefore, urge the Hon Chairman not to withdraw the amendment. And I am putting him on notice that if he withdraws, I would adopt it and urge the House to vote for it.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    Hon Chairman of the Committee, it appears your Hon Colleague is coming to your assistance and you may want to get everything you can for your -
    Mr Puozaa 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think I need your advice on this matter - [Laughter] - because the Committee really agreed on this amendment simply because we are looking for a sustainable means of income to support the Fund. Other than that, there is no need setting up a Fund if you do not have money. But then, upon consultation or rather even within the House here, this issue was raised whether we had the right to tax the Consolidated Fund.
    So, I did really consult and I have this document, that is, Act 754 - Collection of Tax and Payment into the Consolidated Fund. The Value Added Tax Service established under section 36 of the Value Added Tax Act, 1998 (Act 546) is responsible for the administration and management of tax and shall collect and
    account for the tax and any interest and penalty paid under the Act.
    This was really referred to me -- Well, the unfortunate thing is that I did not consult my good Hon Friend this morning; though we spoke on other things, I forgot it. But based on that advice, I thought we would be going into another University of Ghana Act problem. So, I decided to stay clear, that we work within what we have on the Order Paper.
    Papa Owusu-Ankomah 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker - [Interruption.]
    Mr Puozaa 12:30 p.m.
    Just a minute. But then Mr Speaker, if the House does agree to the position earlier taken, I think it is all right with us.
    Papa Owusu-Ankomah 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, this provision can never be inconsistent with the section that the Hon Chairman read out to us. And if at all, by reason of the rules of statutory interpretation, if there is anything in that Act which is inconsistent with this provision, this provision would prevail because it is a later enactment by the House.
    But I do not see anything at all inconsistent with the Value Added Tax (VAT) Act; all that the provision says is that, the tax would be collected by VAT and VAT will account for it. What this amendment seeks to do is to say that one per cent of the Communication Service Tax should be paid into the Trust Fund.
    There is nothing wrong with that, and I would not want to - If the Finance Minister had been here to say that, “oh, well, even because of the way Government manages its finances, this would place a difficulty on Government”, even that one, we can reject that explanation. Because we are the lawmakers and in our collective wisdom, we believe that this source of
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    Hon Members, I would put the Question on the proposed amendment to clause (3) in terms of (k) and (l).
    Mr Owusu-Agyemang 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, is he maintaining it or is he withdrawing it? I am not too clear of what is happening.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    It is maintained.
    Mr Owusu-Agyemang 12:30 p.m.
    Oh, it is maintained? all right, good. If - [Interruption.]
    Mr Puozaa 12:30 p.m.
    I did say that our interest is to get more money for the Fund; that is why we included that. So if it safe to do it, then why not?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    And for the avoidance of -
    Mr Puozaa 12:30 p.m.
    So I therefore beg to move that -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    For the avoidance of doubt, clause 3, amendment proposed -- that is the Question I am putting-- add the following new paragraphs:
    “(k)one per cent moneys taken from the Communications Service Tax Revenue;
    (l) any other sources of funding that the Board in consultation with the Minister for Finance may determine.”
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, as explained by the Chairman, I think we need a continuous flow of funding into the Fund. My little worry is -- we are told that one per cent of moneys taken from the Communications Service Tax Revenue should now go to resource this scheme. Already, we have some dedication of the amount collected to some assignment -- some programmes. I do not know whether we are talking about one per cent of the gross, or one per cent after that dedication which has been hived out.
    Indeed, with that one may even want to know if we can have some reasonable estimate of the one per cent; whether it is the gross or the net that we are looking at. That should inform our making this proposal, because otherwise, we are all left in the lurch, not knowing what we are talking about. What is the anticipation?
    Hon Minister, I do not know whether you can help the Chairman?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    Hon Ranking Member may also be of help.
    P a p a O w u s u - A n k o m a h : Unfortunately, the Ranking Member is absent. But Mr Speaker, we know that the Communications Service Tax is a percentage on goods and services. So we can have an approximate sum, for our purpose, unless the Hon Minority Leader is of the view that this is too little, or wants to know around what figure we are anticipating.
    We want it to be a dedicated percentage of the collection from the Communications Service Tax. And whether it is gross or not, will be interpreted in a way that is normally -- The tax is the tax; I believe that you do not say that it is net. They have a way of calculating percentages; you collect GH¢2 million a year; one per cent of GH¢2million is so much. If in the ordinary calculation of revenue, there is some deduction, it would be done. We cannot say “gross” or “net”
    because I would not even understand what “net” would mean; less what expenses? After all, VAT, they are paid salaries, they do not retain part of the proceeds of the Communications Service Tax for anything.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    Very well. Hon Minority Leader, does that satisfy the difficulty, if any?
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:30 p.m.
    Not really, Mr Speaker. What the Member for Sekondi has proffered does not really answer the question that I posed at all.
    As I said, when we passed the Act, we made a dedication to some programme and what I wanted to know is when we state one per cent, are we talking about the entire or after the taking out of that dedication? And then I said we should in making this law have some reasonable estimation, if it is to the gross, how much are we expected to earn from this into the Fund?
    That was what I said; so that if we have some estimate and we believe that, no, it is too small a percentage, can we not increase it to maybe, 1.5 or 2 per cent instead of passing the Act now and then two, three, four, five years, coming back to say that, oh, it was too small a figure? That is why I thought that the Hon Minister piloting the Bill should be able to give us some reasonable estimates. But not to worry, if you think that we can railroad it, do not worry. I thought we should have some reasonable estimation of this.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    I believe the Minister can tell us something because on the floor, we can always stand it down if the Minister wants to get
    further information, so that we do it once and for all.
    Mr Alex N. Tettey-Enyo 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we were thinking of the deduction from the gross revenue earnings and big or small, we were expecting that source to be a veritable regular source of funding for the Trust Fund. Unfortunately, I have not got any figures to prove the extent of it but big or small, we want that source to be a regular source of funding for the Trust Fund.
    Mr Stephen K. B. Manu 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I believe this is not the only Fund from which a percentage is being taken. When we go to the GETFund, when we go to the District Assemblies Common Fund, percentages are taken and I do not remember any occasion that we settled on the gross or the net.
    We have always said so much percentage and the finance people will know how to work it out without encumbering ourselves with gross and net, how much will be projected. I do not think we should encumber ourselves with that, Let us talk about the percentage; those who are the experts will do it as they have been doing for NHIS, GETFund, District Assemblies Common Fund and other Funds.
    Thank you.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think we should understand that it is not for nothing that percentages are given, whether one per cent or one point five per cent. There is an estimation that one per cent can give you this , two per cent can give you this, and that is why you put it there. And that is why I was asking if we have this in mind.
    However, if the Minister, as he has just said -- well, he himself is not too sure of it. We can move along. The figure is not conjured from nothing. If it is one per cent, if it is two per cent if it is three per cent, the person piloting it will have a reasonable figure in his mind to resource it. That is the import of my intervention but since the Minister is saying that he cannot tell us, we can always go on. If maybe,
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:50 p.m.


    after its application, down the line, we realize that it is not enough and we have to raise, we can so do.

    Mr Speaker, that was all that my intervention was meant to portray.
    Mr Avoka 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, with due respect, I think that we will not lose anything if we defer this one for us to check this afternoon then tomorrow, we can confirm it. I think it is useful -
    Papa Owusu-Ankomah 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, in all these Funds, including GETFund and District Assemblies Common Fund (DACF), we stick with percentages. We do not know the minimum that we are going to get a year but the idea is that -- if you look at this Fund, they have listed a lot of sources including 0.5 per cent of annual profit of corporations - we do not have an estimate; the idea is that, have a minimum sum of money that will be dedicated to the Fund and that will not be subject to as it were, the goodwill of government. That is the whole idea.
    I appreciate the point being made but Mr Speaker, this was not even part of the original presentation in the Bill. This is something that we consider to be an extra source but dedicated source which would be arithmetically ascertainable when the annual Budget is presented by the Minister for Finance and Economic Planning. He will have an estimate - Communication Service Tax, we anticipate to get so much; it is an estimate and out of that estimate, we can always say that well, then we know that there will be a minimum of so much going into the Students Loan Fund.
    So in this matter, I support the Minister for Education, who is of the view that this amendment being proposed by the Chairman of the Committee is forward- looking and will enrich this Bill.
    I am saying that the issue raised by the Minority Leader, he is also not too keen, he says well, he was asking - but we can give him the answer tomorrow - as for
    the answer, it will always be an estimate. We can look at last year's Budget or this year's Budget and know the estimate that was given for Communication Service Tax - one per cent thereof. Yes, you must know. It is part of the public record.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 3 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr Puozaa 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 5 - subclause (1), paragraph (d), delete and insert the following:
    “One representative of a recognized students' associations nominated on rotational basis for one term only”.
    Mr Speaker, after a lengthy discussion, we really saw that there was no reason. We should allow the Minister just to continue nominating somebody -- a student from a recognized students' association. For the fact that even the students that will be nominated have a term of service to be at the school. So it is not going to be something like, you will be there permanently. So we felt this was an unnecessary addition.
    So I would suggest that we maintain the original rendition, that is
    “one representative of a recognized Students' Associations nominated by the Minister”.
    Prof Ameyaw- Akumfi 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think the amendment as we have, would better serve the interest of students. We have several of these and Mr Speaker, I was going to suggest that in the interpretation, we have the definition of “students' associations.”

    But clearly, we must have this system where on rotational basis we get representatives from the various

    associations. I think that is the proper thing to do. And not restrict it to one association which would be considered by the Hon Minister at his own discretion. Let the associations come in, come and serve on rotational basis. I think they would welcome that rather than leaving it as it was in the original Bill.
    Mr Boafo 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, in the first place, I think the purpose of this Bill is to cater for tertiary institutions. When one is referring to students, associations, we must be more specific and relate it to tertiary institutions. So that is the first amendment that I am seeking to make - that the “recognized Students' Associations” should be “of tertiary institutions” -
    “One representative of a recognized students' associations of tertiary Institutions” - [Interruption].
    Mr Speaker, it is the association which is being recognized, not the tertiary institutions.
    Mr Puozaa 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think that it is unnecessary because the whole loan --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    Hon Boafo -
    Mr Boafo 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I do not think you have asked me to resume my seat.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    No. You may go on.
    Mr Boafo 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, this is the argument which is being bandied round that the entire Bill deals with tertiary institutions, so there is no need to be more specific. Then why do we bother ourselves in certain situations bringing in this expression of tertiary institutions? It
    is for the purpose of being more specific in certain legislations.
    Mr Speaker, my second worry is about the fact that they should allow an Hon Minister to nominate. Why do we Sit here as Parliaments and instead of restricting the Executive's interference and influences, we rather try to or augment Executive power? So Mr Speaker, I would prefer the proposed amendment as it is in this Order Paper to what the Chairman changed. to make it a nomination by the Minister. We have to curtail Executive power; it is getting too much.
    Mr Puozaa 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I yield and I think we can hold on to the amendment as it stands.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    I think we get the principle now, that it should be by the students' organizations, not by Executive's; that is clear. Now the formulation, and I think that too should be put very clearly.
    Prof Ameyaw-Akumfi 1 p.m.
    I think that the rendition is not correct. We do not have “a recognized Students' Associations.” I think the “a” was maintained because of the original formulation. So it should be
    “One representative of recognized students' associations nominated on rotational basis for one term only.”
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    “one representative -”
    Mr Puozaa 1 p.m.
    Please, Mr Speaker, could he go over it?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    Mr Chairman, do we have certain recognized tertiary students' associations already?
    Mr Puozaa 1 p.m.
    They exist.
    Prof Ameyaw-Akumfi 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, that was why I suggested that in the interpretation, we should have a definition of students - if we are referring to the various students' associations at the various tertiary institutions, then we are going to have one for the universities, one for the polytechnics, nursing training colleges and so on. And once we have that definition, yes, by the statutes we know all these are recognized students' associations. But the interpretation should make it quite clear.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    Very well. The interpretation apart, how do we make ourselves clear at this stage?
    Mr Puozaa 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, right now, the representative on the Board is a student from the polytechnic - Ghana National Union of Polytechnic Students (GNUPS) - that is the current representative.
    It is assumed that come next term, perhaps, a representative from the NUGS could be the other appointee and there are several others. These are all recognized students' associations by the Ministry and the Ministry of Youth and Sports. So this is the position. We believe that come next term - GNUPS would not be on the Board but perhaps, another association. That is the essence of the rotation.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    For the avoidance of doubt, what would be a term? Is a term a year or a term in the semester understanding? What is a term?
    Mr Tettey-Enyo 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think the term of service is normally two years.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    Very well. Can we - from the various suggestions that I have heard - can we have - Chairman of the Committee, if you may help me -
    “One represen ta t ive of the recognized tertiary students' associations nominated on rotational basis for one term only.”
    Does it sound well with you?
    Mr Avoka 1 p.m.
    One term of two years; for the avoidance of doubt.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    Shall we get the term cleared before we -
    Mr Puozaa 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we have just been informed that a term is two years -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    Very well. That would be captured but listen carefully to this so that if it sits down well with you -
    “One represen ta t ive of the recognized tertiary students' associations nominated on rotational basis for one term of two years only.”
    rose
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    I think we have agreed on everything except whether we should add “two years” to the term - yes, Hon Minority Leader -
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I was going to question that but I have been told that the students themselves agreed that their term should be two years. If that is the case, then I have nothing against it except I thought that the full complement of that description - of the tertiary institutions that we are dealing with is accredited tertiary institutions. So, I do not know whether we may not have it this way -
    “One represen ta t ive of the recognized students' associations
    of accredited tertiary institutions nominated on rotational basis for one term of two years only.”
    I thought that we should have included “students associations of accredited tertiary institutions.”
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Because those who are not part of it have no business being there. Very well. So if I may read, this is a rather difficult one, so if I may go over -
    Mr Samuel Ayeh-Paye 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the students union have their terms, the recognised students have their term. For instance, if you are a level 400 student at the university and you are serving for one term, which is one academic year--
    In this case, are we looking at the student group? Is a group that is supposed to serve for the two terms or their representatives? This is because if the representative, is to serve for two terms and he is a level 400 student, who is serving on the Board and after the end of the year, he is no more a student, is he going to continue to serve or that will terminate for the union to bring another person to serve?
    Prof Ameyaw-Akumfi 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we are looking at the association. The officer he is talking about may be booted out after a semester; that is not the issue. For the institutional representation, it would be for the term of two years, so the faces may change. In fact, in revolutionary terms, you may have about six people in a matter of an academic year but that is not the point. You want that group, that association to be there for two years? I want to ask the Hon Minister whether that is not the idea.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Very well.
    Mr S.K.B. Manu 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, even in the scenario Hon Ayeh-Paye gave out, according to the National Union of Ghana Students (NUGS) and other student body constitutions, a student is still a student one year even after he has completed his course of study. So if he is in level 400 and he is there, one year after he has completed, he is still considered a student under the NUGS constitution and other constitutions of students.
    Mr Avoka 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if we can get guidance or support from clause 7 (1) of the Bill -- Clause 7 talks about tenure of office of members of the Board and then it says:
    “A member of the Board shall hold office for a period not exceeding four years and he is eligible for reappointment but a member shall not be appointed for more than two terms.”
    Once you put a student there under clause 5 (d), that is the governing body, that is the Board, unless we specify - The presumption also under clause 7 is that he is to be there for four years.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    It says, “not exceeding . . .” It can be less; “not exceeding.”
    Mr Avoka 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, yes. So if it is not exceeding, who is responsible for moving him at the end of the two years?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    It can be less.
    Mr Avoka 1:10 p.m.
    We have to be specific.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Very well. Hon Members, the question is,
    “One represen ta t ive of the recognised ter t iary s tudents associations of accredited tertiary institutions nominated on rotational
    basis for one term of two years only.”
    Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, did I hear you insert or replace the “a” with “the” and if so - [Interruption.]
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Yes, “the”, “of the recognised.”
    Prof . Ameyaw-Akumf i 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, why the article? Why not “one representative of recognised students' associations”?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Very well.
    “One representative of recognised tertiary students, associations of accredited tertiary institutions nominated on rotational basis for one term of two years only.”
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I thought that if you had the description of “accredited tertiary institutions”, then there would not be any need to say, “tertiary students associations of accredited tertiary institutions.” We should just state,
    “One representative of recognised students associations of accredited tertiary institutions . . .” So that is how it should be, not -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    We need not repeat “tertiary”?
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:10 p.m.
    Not to prequalify “students associations” as “tertiary institutions.”
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Thank you. It will then read:
    “One representative of recognised students associations of accredited tertiary institutions nominated on rotational basis for one term of two years only.”
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 5 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 8 - add the folloing new subclauses:
    “(3)The quorum at a meeting of the Board is a majority of the members of the Board, or a greater number determined by the Board in respect of an important matter.”
    Mr Speaker, there was so much debate on this, over the issue of important matters. What matter is important and what is not? So we felt that since the Board is on financial issues, every issue is important and therefore, we should just leave it at “Board is a majority of the members of the Board.” That is, “The quorum at a meeting of the Board is a majority of the members of the Board . . .”
    The Motion should be, “The quorum
    at a meeting of the Board is a majority of the members of the Board”, and leave out the rest because we cannot decide what is important and what is not.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    So by way of the amendment, clause 8, the amendment proposed,
    “Add the following:
    (3) The quorum at a meeting of the Board is majority of the members of the Board . . ”
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, my understanding of the proposed amendment is that, in respect of important matters, the quorum could be either majority of the members or a greater number. This is my understanding of the reading. If I do not have any background knowledge about the Interpretation Act, this is my understanding, that
    “The quorum at a meeting of the Board is a majority of the members of the Board or a greater number
    determined by the Board in respect of important matter.”
    But I believe the idea is that, in ordinary transactions, the majority prevails but in an important matter, a greater number. This should come out.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Hon Boafo, if we got the Hon Chairman right, he said there was a lot of difficulty about what matter is important and what matter is not important and therefore, we may simply say,
    “The quorum at a meeting of the Board is a majority of the members of the Board”,
    and then rest it there because in actual fact, every matter should be important and that is where the difficulty may lie.
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think this is something which has been extracted from the Interpretation Act. I think section 24 of the Interpretation Act makes provision for such two scenarios.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Hon Boafo, can you read that for us?
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    The Interpretation Act?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Yes, the relevant section. Meanwhile -
    rose
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Yes, Hon Member?
    Mr Owusu-Agyemang 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would like to agree with you because who determines what is important and what is not important? I have never come across where there are matters that are important. If the quorum is 50 per cent or plus, it is 50 per cent plus.
    When you get a bad chairman, it is at his whims-- and as my Hon Minority Leader would say -- and caprices to determine what is important and what is not important, is not important. We have to
    say, a quorum. is a quorum. I do not think a quorum is with regard to any important matter.
    What may be important to Hon Tettey- Enyo may not be important to Hon Joseph Annan. So what is important - Just get a quorum -- period. The simpler the law, the better. So that we are not subjected to any personal interpretation. Otherwise, the Chief Director may even say this is more important and the Hon Minister also says that is important, and it creates confusion. So let us make laws very simple, straightforward without any encumbrances on them.
    I think that I agree with you, Mr Speaker, that it should end there -- “the majority of the members of the Board”; finished.
    Mr Avoka 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, for once, I want to support Hon Hackman Owusu- Agyemang -- [Laughter] -- for now.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Shall
    we leave it like that, Hon Boafo?
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, you asked me
    to look for the Interpretation Act.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Yes, Hon Boafo if you may -
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I have got it
    and it reads as follows:
    “Where an enactment contains words establishing or providing for the establishment of a body corporate the words operate to vest in a majority of the members of that body corporate the power subject to a quorum fixed by the enactment under which it is established by the relevant regulations or rules to bind the other members of that body corporate. But in an important
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Very well. Hon Member, can you help us to capture the full import of the law there in this one? Financial, important matter --the principle is clear. But help us to -
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Madam Speaker, “Important matter or questions which has financial implication”; that is the exact expression used. Mr Speaker, we cannot say that because the subject matter of the Bill is a “Fund”, whenever they meet, they would discuss only financial matters. There are times when they will discuss internal matters relating to ordinary transactions. So it is necessary for us to draw this distinction.
    Internal matters and not necessarily financial issues will be discussed at the meeting all the time. That is why we need to make that distinction and for consistency of our legislative process, if we go back to some other Bills that have passed through this House, you would realize that we have maintained this distinction -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Hon Boafo, kindly read the entire rendition.
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, it is section 24 (1) of the Interpretation Act, (Act 792) of 2009. It provides as follows:
    “Where an enactment contains words establishing or providing for the establishment of a body
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.


    corporate, the words operate . . .”

    Then we move to subclause 1 (b) --

    “To vest in a majority of the members of that body corporate, the power subject to a quorum fixed by the enactment under which it is established or by the relevant regulations or rules to bind the other members of that body corporate. But in an important matter or question which has financial implications, the quorum shall not be less than two- thirds of the members of the governing body of that body corporate”.

    So Mr Speaker, you would see that the first part deals with the simple majority and the second part deals with the greater number.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Very
    well, Hon Boafo. But in an important matter, which has financial implications, it means that important matters must have financial implications. So the two are conjunctive and I think it means therefore that, financial matters which also have certain - which are important -- It must be an important matter, it must be financial.
    If that is so, then the hands of other members of whoever determines that are tied. This matter must be important and it must have a financial implication. But otherwise, I think if you look at it that way, then the point raised by the Hon Chairman of the Committee is still valid, though we can still add the two and come to a conclusion. So it can also be under what is an important matter from the Act that has been read, it must be an important matter and it must have financial implications.
    Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I just want to
    avoid a situation where, if we were to be in a court, they will say that we have given judgment per incuria. That is having
    regard to the state of the law, you just set it aside and decide what you want. I am only referring to what is provided under the Interpretation Act to guide the House and also be consistent with the previous laws that have passed through this House.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    And if
    so, can we adopt those very expressions there and not just say over here, we have --or a greater number to determine in spite of an important matter? If we do that, we would have left something in the very law that you are reading out and that is why I do not want us to fall in that temptation -- “of an important matter” and leave it there. Because here that law we are reading says, “important matter of question which has financial implications.”
    It must be an important matter and it must have financial implications. So if we can capture all - [Interruptions] -- well, it is fine, then I think we are on safe ground. But it is not just to capture part of the very thing that we are reading, which is an important matter and leave out the financial implications.
    Mr Manu 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if we are to
    adopt what Hon Boafo has read, we are likely to create a problem for the Board. I say this with the experience from the GETFund. When I was the Chairman of the Committee, my interaction with the GETFund Board indicated that, sometimes they found it difficult to meet the number that we put in there to meet and decide on our cheques, for example. So, one day, I remember I was complaining - they always told me they had not been able to gather the people to sign and I was complaining. They told me “but it was you people who made the law.”
    So we must be careful. If we are to
    adopt what he is saying, then we are going to be talking of two-thirds of the membership being present and if we are not careful, we will run into problems. Are they working full time? They are not working full time. They are already engaged in their own endeavours and they come together. So if we ask that we want two-thirds membership because it is a financial matter, we may be heading for trouble.
    Mr Avoka 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I want
    to associate myself with the sentiment expressed by Hon Balado Manu. Mr Speaker, admittedly, this Board is to administer a Fund -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    So you
    agree with the Hon Friend?
    Mr Avoka 1:30 p.m.
    Yes. This Board is
    supposed to administer the Fund but we have to appreciate that the disbursement of this Fund is time-bound, and the experience of some of us in serving on some of these Boards and Corporations is that, they hardly can get two-third majority of members to meet and take a decision. So in this one, I think if it is just to approve of loans for students to go to school, a simple majority is enough for them to meet and take a decision rather than two-thirds of the members where they may not meet for a particular month or two and the students will have to go to school and the purpose of making that facility available to them will be defeated. So yes, it is a guidance, it is just in the Interpretation Act, but in making this law, we should restrict it to simple majority so that business can go on and the children can benefit. Otherwise, we would be making a law and then it will tie us together and the students cannot benefit.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    The
    Hon Minority Leader would like us to consider the simple nature of the function,
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:30 p.m.
    Mr
    Speaker, I think that it is a very germane matter that has been raised by the Hon Member for Akropong. Mr Speaker, I find it very important because in my view, after the Constitution itself, the next most important document or piece of legislation is the Interpretation Act itself. If we set aside the relevance of the provision which is being alluded to by my Hon Colleague, what would be the import of it? Certainly, it would be counter to the provision in the Interpretation Act.
    Mr Speaker, you do know that in
    Parliament, more or less, we have been complaining on daily basis that the power of legislation even though so stated by the Constitution and trusted into the hands of the Legislature, has been taken away by this construction in the Constitution, that to the extent that a Bill that is introduced in the House has financial implications; it must be introduced in the House on behalf of the President by a Minister, otherwise a Private Member cannot introduce it.
    Mr Speaker, this provision in the Interpretation Act has the same effect as the provision in the Constitution, and I think we should be very careful not to do anything that would run counter to provisions in the Interpretation Act, difficult though the situation may be. And I thought that in the circumstance -- and we have to subject what we are doing to the Interpretation Act, the relevant provision in the Interpretation Act. We cannot side- step it.
    So, even though it is a difficult situation, I would have wished in particular, against the experience that has been shared by the Hon Member for Ahafo Ano South, that maybe, we simplify it. However, if
    we did that, it would run counter to the Interpretation Act. How do we properly capture that provision and not do anything to offend it? I think that is something that should exercise our mind.
    I do not know whether we cannot just say -- Because Mr Speaker, I looked at the functions of the Board being responsible for the management of the Fund, arranging appointments of a team of professionals for efficient management of the affairs of the Fund and so on. Really, on the face of it, it is not financial. Because just arranging for the appointment of a team of professionals for the efficient management of the affairs of the Fund, is it financial?
    On the face of it, it does not have any financial implication, except one would say that even organizing the meeting may have some financial implications to the Board. So I think we should be very cautious and exercise some circumspection in this. If we have to, maybe, stand this one down for further consultation, I think it would be better for us. Otherwise, we may do something that may run counter to the Interpretation Act.
    rose
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Hon
    Chairman, I think I will get Hon Boafo to, perhaps, augment what the Hon Minority Leader said and then the Chairman of the Committee can respond fully.
    Mr Boafo 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, before the
    Chairman speaks, if I may ask -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    That is
    exactly what I am inkling to do. It appears they are of the same viewpoint, so let them conclude their viewpoint and the Hon Chairman can reply exhaustively.
    Mr Puozaa 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think the Hon Minority Leader's explanation is quite exhaustive and I think we agree to that. We only need to modify it to read as
    follows:
    “The quorum at a meeting of the Board is the majority of the members of the Board or a greater number determined by the Board in respect of an important matter which has financial implications.”
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Very
    well. I believe this is exactly what Hon Boafo has said and which is clear from the law. It reads as follows:
    “. . . an important matter or question which has financial implications.”
    In fact, all that I am saying is that if
    we are adopting Hon Boafo's formula, let us go to the full -- Let us capture it in extenso as it is in the law. Hon Chairman, it reads as follows:
    “. . . an important matter or question which has financial implications.”
    Hon Boafo, does that help?
    Mr Boafo 1:30 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker. That is
    precisely what we are trying to advocate for. We are advocating for due process and we are also advocating for the maintenance of checks and balances in our democratic governance.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    So Hon
    Boafo, what is the formulation? Because I think we have gone beyond the principle or the argument.
    Mr Boafo 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the
    formulation is that:
    “The quorum at a meeting of the Board is a simple majority of the members of the Board or two-thirds of the members of the Board in respect of an important matter which has financial implications.”
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    “The quorum at a meeting of the Board is a simple majority of the members of the Board or two- thirds of the members of the Board in respect of an important matter or question which has financial implications.”
    And by that we have captured the Interpretation Act, not by way of an important matter only but in terms of the fullness of the Act as to what is implied -- financial implications.
    Mr Avoka 1:40 p.m.
    For the avoidance of doubt, Mr Speaker, does it stand to reason that if they are going to meet to discuss the disbursement of loans to students, it is an important matter that has financial implications and therefore, they need the two-thirds majority?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    I think from what the Interpretation -
    Mr Avoka 1:40 p.m.
    Our fear is that it will bog down the disbursement of the facility. It will delay unduly and frustrate some of the students and it will defeat the purpose for this facility if we are talking about two-thirds of members of the Board being present before they can disburse loans of GH¢500 or GH¢300 to students. I think we are exaggerating the financial implications that are contemplated in the Interpretation Act. They talk about a matter where they have huge sums of money ,maybe, in a bank and they are going to approve of billions of cedis or dollars going to businessmen et cetera; that is where we talk about financial implication. But not this little thing that we are giving to students -- GH¢500, maybe, GH¢200 and then two-thirds of the members must be present before they do the disbursement. The purpose will be defeated.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Hon Majority Leader, what would you suggest?
    Mr Avoka 1:40 p.m.
    That is why I earlier suggested that it should be simple majority for them to take a decision with regard to disbursement of the loan and not two- thirds majority.
    Experience has shown that, in several Boards you hardly get two-thirds of the members present.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, with respect, you know this Interpretation Act was smithed in this House. I think it was the first Bill that came from the Hon Attorney-General and Minister for Justice immediately upon being confirmed. We argued this same principle in this House. We are going back to the same issues that were raised.
    Mr Speaker, we argued extensively on this and said that maybe - and then, her insistence was that money is money, and we should be careful with it. So, if it is a bad law, it is tying the hands of all of us. For the time being, Mr Speaker, let us comply. If maybe, we come to amending it, then we see what to do.
    But we cannot say that we have made a law and as Hon Members of Parliament, we are being confronted with the reality and we are saying that let us move away from it. Then, why did we do the law? And not having had any amendment to it we are obliged to go on that same path. So, Mr Speaker, I think the formulation should be put -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Definitely, it is another document of legislation.
    I would put the Question.
    rose
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Shall
    we read over it?
    “The quorum at a meeting of the Board is a simple majority of the members of the Board or two- thirds of the members of the Board in respect of an important matter or question which has financial implications.”
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Hon Chairman of the Committee, there is a further amendment.
    Mr Puozaa 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 8, add
    “(7) The proceedings of the Board shall not be invalidated by reason of vacancy among the members or defect in the appointment or qualification of a member.”
    Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, members of the Board -- most of them, almost all of them are appointed on institutional basis. And the appointment is made by no less a person than the President of the country. Mr Speaker, we are going to put in a clause which is saying that aside from vacancy, “defect in the appointment” -- What are we talking about -- “the qualification of a member”? I think we should just stop at “vacancy of members.” Are we saying that the President will appoint the person knowing that the qualification is all wrong or the appointment is defective?
    Mr Speaker, I think that office is number one in the country. And let us assume that those advising on these appointments are doing the best in the interest of the country. What is important is that if some vacancies get created, decisions taken will still stand. So, the rest, the “defect in the appointment or qualification of a
    member”, Mr Speaker, in my opinion, it is irrelevant; it is unnecessary.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Thank you very much.
    Mr Puozaa 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, may I know where the rendition should stop?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    “The proceedings of the Board shall not be invalidated by reason of vacancy…”
    Is it “vacancy” or “any vacancy”?
    Prof . Ameyaw-Akumfi 1:40 p.m.
    I am not so sure of the English.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    “. . . of any vacancy” but as for “vacancy”, it does not sit well with me. “. . . of any vacancy among the members.” Period. That is what he is proposing.
    Mr Avoka 1:40 p.m.
    I support the amendment proposed by the Hon Chairman of the Committee.
    Mr Speaker, as a practitioner, you would appreciate the parlance that - [An Hon Member: What practitioner?] - A legal practitioner -- No matter how good a pleader is, occasionally, there can be slips here and there and that is why they allow one to amend the writ of summons or statement of claims, et cetera. So, it is possible that no matter the ingenuity of the presidency, they can take a decision of appointing somebody where at the end of the day, there is a technical problem. It is just like a few days ago, we were talking about the University of Ghana Act and so on, where we had the problem.
    The idea of this amendment and this amendment has been standardized -- it is in many of the laws that we have been passing, so that people do not come and
    after due pain and time, he spends weeks and takes a decision and somebody, just because of a mere technical aspects, then frustrates or makes sure that the decision that was arrived at is frustrated or aborted by virtue of the fact that there was an anomaly or something. That is the purpose of this provision.
    So it is for the avoidance of doubt that they only made this provision to ensure that when people form a quorum and meet and take a decision, at least, it can go ahead and not to be arrested by the fact that there was an anomaly.
    More so, if he had an opportunity to even bring that defect out but he did not and waited and stood by and watched and then after they had taken a decision then he says “I will show you”; then he comes to subvert it. I think that is the purpose of this amendment, to arrest such interferences. So I think it is well -founded and then we should allow the amendment to remain. We have had it in some few laws that we have passed before.
    Prof Ameyaw-Akumfi 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I respect my Leader a lot. But on this one, I disagree with him. Mr Speaker, this is going to allow carelessness and promote - I do not want to use the word. Mr Speaker, in doing all these, the assumption is that due diligence would be applied. Are we saying here, that these appointments can be done so carelessly that after a few meetings, they realise that -- Then where are we? Mr Speaker, this is something which should not appear in the law at all.
    If for any reason we find a defect in the appointment, the person would be removed thereby creating a vacancy. We are not giving reasons or how vacancies would -- And that is taken care of by the formulation that we came out with. Vacancies would be created if at some point they find some defect in an appointment or in the qualification and so
    Dr Joseph S. Annan 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think the arguments being made are quite valid. However, our experience from the Ministry of Education in appointing a lot of -- or not appointing, but putting together a lot of these councils and boards shows that very often there is controversy around the institutional representation. Quite often, we are given a name, we take it bona fide that it is indeed, the rightful representative of, let us say, of students organisation, only later on to find that, the professional body or any other group is claiming -- so we have had to withdraw and go back.
    Now, if that is the case and there is a decision that has been made and very often there is controversy or conflict between the two different groups, then any of the parties can use that as an excuse to invalidate the proceedings of the Board. So Mr Speaker, I would plead that this provision is kept in, because the defect in appointment or qualification does not necessarily have to come from the appointment from the presidential quarters.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Hon Members, considering the state of business in the House and the time, I direct that Sitting be held outside the prescribed period. Very well.
    The Hon Member, the viewpoint we have just had is that there are various appointing authorities -- sources. The Hon Prof Ameyaw-Akumfi had a lot of assurance if these were coming presidentially. But actually, much source comes from other areas and for the avoidance of doubt and even possible suits and litigations, we may want to keep the rendition to avoid unnecessary complaints, litigation that may even arise.
    Prof Ameyaw-Akumfi 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker,
    the Hon Deputy Minister, unfortunately, for him, is coming from a Ministry that is so familiar to me. These appointments are made on recommendations that take some time for the Hon Minister to make appropriate recommendations to the Head of State. With due diligence, that sort of thing that we are talking about can be avoided.
    Mr Speaker, my worry is that the appointing authority or the agency or the Ministry responsible for the work of the Board may create scenarios to justify why there was some defect and this is my worry. You do that and indicate why someone should be thrown out of the Board, and this is why enough work should be done right from the beginning for one to make sure that if it is institutional, then they have no problems.
    It is when they are appointing people on individual basis that they may make a mistake here and later on discover that the person is wearing a green shirt or belt or whatever. But that is his headache; if he wants to go ahead with this formulation, Mr Speaker, I have made my point.
    Dr Matthew O. Prempeh 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I want to draw the attention of the House to a fact, that if we let it stay as it is with the defect in the appointment or qualification of a member, then this whole law that we have passed about membership, we have not done anything in this House.
    Mr Speaker, it may mean also that we have somebody in authority, a Head of State who might even appoint membership without consulting the relevant institutional representations and forms and swears in the Board; and then what happens? They might take a decision but we would have protected that in law. Mr Speaker, everything that we try and do here, we should try and know that there
    should be checks and balances.
    If the Minister for Education would just accept by mere letter without verifying that these people are the true representatives of the bodies that they are supposed to represent and forward it to the President, that is only one leg of the situation. What about if the other leg of the situation is such that the defect is intentional? What then do we do? If the defect is intentional, what then do we do?
    So Mr Speaker, we cannot only assume that defect is just by an ordinary mistake, oversight or lack of verification. The defect can be intentional - [Interruption] -- By whoever so desires. If an institution, the Students Representatives Council (SRC) brings a defective appointment, should we let it stay? No.
    Likewise, if the appointing authority makes an intentional mistake, then what do we do? So that part of the law as it is couched, should be expunged because it can go both ways which is very dangerous.
    Thank you.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think the principle behind the amendment is understood. However, it is the construction that I think we are worried about. I know that in all the laws that we have made, we create such a proviso. But it is for vacancy; I do not remember that we have added defect and -- The Hon Majority Leader is nodding his head profusely, that we have been doing that. Can he cite one example? [Laughter.] He says not now.
    Mr Speaker, that is not what we have normally done; we have allowed for vacancy and indeed, I know that even Parliament, after the passage of the Procurement Act, we are obliged to send representatives to certain entity committees. But often we act slowly. The Board may have to function. The fact that we have not responded does not mean that they cannot function and that is why there is often that proviso, that the fact that we
    have neglected to perform does not mean that they should not go on. But that is where we have stopped.
    We have never added these words. That is why I am saying that let us be consistent. If we look at the Bills that we have passed, we have really used “vacancy”, not the other two words. So I will plead with the Hon Minister that we allow it and end at “vacancy” and delete those words.
    Mr Avoka 2 p.m.
    Yes, given the submission
    by the Hon Minority Leader, when there is a vacancy in the composition that constitutes defect - [Interruptions]--If there is a vacancy in it and they take a decision, it can constitute a defect because of the vacancy that was created; it is possible that it will create a defect. So we are speaking the same language. I do not know what we lose by the amendment proposed by the Chairman of the Committee. In fact, we are talking from huge experience in the area of Boards and Corporations and the rest of them, that they will simply arrest the decision of the Board just because of a technical defect or some other defect that they have discovered.
    So what we are saying is that let that decision stand and then the defect can be rectified. We are not saying the defect can continue to be in place. No. If the decision has already been taken and people have benefited from that decision, then they have to come and undo the whole of that one; it creates a lot of injustice. That is what we are talking about.
    So Hon Members who are afraid that - and I want to submit that no responsible Minister or President will intentionally create a defect or cause a defect so that he can benefit from it. With the greatest
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    Hon
    Boafo, perhaps, you may want to help us. May I posit a question? Maybe, it may even help us further by contributing to the question that is going to be posited. Assuming there is one organization, they make a nomination and there is a controversy about that nomination, that person is a member of the Board. Decisions are taken, moneys involved and then one section of that organization takes the matter to court because we are going to have institutional representation mainly on this particular Board.
    In the meantime, it is ruled that the other faction or group's nominee should hold that office and then someone wants to use that to set aside the entire decisions made. Hon Boafo, that kind of matter may be technically upheld in law. Is that not so? And it may create a lot of difficulties. Will you want to make a contribution in this regard to guide the House?
    Mr Boafo 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, it will create the problem that you are trying to convey but at the same time, one of our objectives of making the law is to instill some discipline, accountability and transparency where somebody can mischieviously create a defect in the appointment - [Laughter].
    Mr Speaker, the issue being raised by the Hon Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi is not only a technical issue; it is a reality and that is what we must avoid. Too much laxity which is being advanced will not help us. We must instill discipline; we must use the law as a social engineering instrument; we

    should not play it to the gallery.

    So I will support the Hon Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi's stance on this issue. But irrespective of the harsh consequences of a defect in an appointment or in the qualification, we must make the law in such a way that people will be active, people will be responsible and responsive to the demands of their job schedules.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    So in effect, this will be a saving clause and saving clauses are known in a lot of places. A saving clause to save acts which have been done in the ordinary course of administration not intentional so that workings will go on.
    Mr Avoka 2 p.m.
    Yes, I indicated earlier that we have previously passed legislations with this type of saving clause and my Hon Colleague wanted an example. I refer him to the Ghana Education Service Act of l995, (Act 56). The relevant section or clause is section 8, subsection 7 and it reads and I beg to quote:
    “The validity of the proceedings of the Council shall not be affected by a vacancy among its members or by a defect in the appointment or qualification of a member.”
    In fact, I am aware of this.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    Please, Hansard of?
    Mr Avoka 2 p.m.
    I am saying that Act 506 of l995, that is the Ghana Education Service Act.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    These saving clauses are known.
    Mr Boafo 2 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I think the legislation he is referring to was passed in l995. His side did not have the benefit of our input - [Laughter.]
    Mr Avoka 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, he is ruled out of order. That was -- he should be ruled out of order. That was a competent Parliament passing competent laws.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    In fact, we will not bring that in. The important thing is that, there is a precedent in Parliament and in fact, seriously speaking, these are saving clauses known, even in the English Parliament, they are known. Let us be very serious about this.
    It is known to the British law itself and even in this Parliament, if it is not, saving clauses -- so as to save a whole Act that has been done, something that has been done in good faith irrespective of the disqualification, technically, of one member of that body. It is done.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, with respect, I know the pieces of legislation in Westminster may be of significant relevance to us -- to provide some guide. Mr Speaker, surely, the Hon Majority Leader has alluded to at least, one Act, that was passed in l995, which indeed, is not your typical Parliament - however -- [Laughter.]
    Mr Avoka 2 p.m.
    On a point of order. Mr Speaker, the Hon Minority Leader is out of order - [Laughter] - with the greatest respect to him. That was a Parliament that was fully of competence and within the l992 Constitution of Ghana. It was in place.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    I agree with the Hon Majority Leader.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, that is true but it was not for nothing that many -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    It was a Parliament of competent jurisdiction.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:10 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker, to some extent.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Fully.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:10 p.m.
    But Mr Speaker, clearly, it is not for nothing that many of the Acts that were passed by that Parliament had to be reversed in 1997/1998. He has a lot of evidence; he was at the Ministry of Lands and Forestry as a Minister; he knows the number of Bills that came back to Parliament.
    I understand the principle but I am saying that, since 1997, all the laws that I know that we have passed - they have that saving clauses as you have rightly said; but we have always stopped at the use of the word “vacancy” and not “those others.” So if he can show to me any one piece of legislation since 1997-- He should not take us to 1993 or 1994; it is 1997 I am referring to; all those ones that we have made, we have those provisions but we have always used the word “vacancy”.
    Mr Speaker, it is to oblige the Ministry to exercise greater diligence. So maybe, whereas they have not finished, we could have a situation of vacancy. When you have not finished with your diligence, you could have a situation of vacancy. But that is not to preclude the President from swearing them in or appointing them, then
    Mr Tettey-Enyo 2:10 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, I can vouch that a few of the Acts in the education sector have this clause - [Interruption] - yes, those in 1997. I say a few of the Acts in my sector. So -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Hon Members, it would serve our interest to stand this down and do some further consultations.
    Chairman of the Committee, clause 12 - there are some proposed amendments.
    Mr Puozaa 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think Hon Boafo is in charge of that.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Hon Boafo, the amendment listed (iv), clause,
    12 -
    Mr Boafo 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, in clause 12 - [Interruption] - Mr Speaker, the Question has not been put on clause 8, subclasue (7).
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    I did indicate that we would stand it down for the time being. So clause 12 -
    Mr Boafo 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I believe clause 12 is going to generate some debate and if we can continue tomorrow subject to the Leaders -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Clause 12 - No, I think you should propose your amendment so that the Chairman of the Committee's reaction would determine what amount of debate would be generated.
    Mr Puozaa 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, clause 12 -
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if I may, we thought that we would be closing at 2 p.m. and have some arrangements made. I thought that maybe, if we were able to deal with clause 8, then we could close. Fortunately, it has to be stood down.
    May I with the indulgence of my Hon Colleague, the Hon Majority Leader, plead that we adjourn and come and continue tomorrow. And maybe, the draftpserson, the Hon Minister and the Chairman and the other people could confer to look at those ones that we have stood down, so that tomorrow, when we come, we could fast-track and take them.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Hon Majority Leader, I could adjourn at this stage but I just think it is proper to hear what you have to say.
    Mr Avoka 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I have no objection. You can take the adjournment and hope that tomorrow we can spend an hour after the early business and finish with this matter. And that the Hon Minister would consult the Attorney- General and Minister for Justice and get guidance with respect to those we have stood down. [Pause.]
    Mr Speaker, if I crave your indulgence, yesterday - [Interruption] - Hon Colleagues who are there -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Order! Order! Hon Majority Leader, you may
    continue.
    Mr Avoka 2:10 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, yesterday we considered the nominations of some Hon Colleagues of ours - eight (8) Hon Colleagues of ours to the ECOWAS Parliament and there was an issue we deferred for further consultation among the Leadership. That issue related to the leader of the Ghana's delegation. We have done consultations and agreed that as of now, the principle should be that the Majority Caucus would now provide the leader of the delegation. That has been the practice for sometime now and we hope to maintain it until such time that we as a body collectively think that it is necessary to re-visit the issue.
    So the point I am making is that Hon Michael Nyaunu, who is the current leader - he was leader last year or this year - would continue to exercise that status as leader of the Ghana's delegation to the ECOWAS Parliament in view of his position as a senior member of the Majority side.
    Thank you.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think the clarification that we wanted yesterday is what has been espoused by the Hon Majority Leader.
    Indeed, in established Parliaments once a delegation is going out of Parliament and the delegation is constituted, the structure of Parliament should inform who leads the delegation. That will mean that the Leadership, if any of them is there, should lead.
    If a committee Chairman outside the Leadership is present, the Committee Chairman should chair. If the committee Chairman is not there and there is a Ranking Member, he should be leader and so on and so forth. That is what obtains in any established Parliament.
    However, we all know that we are still growing, and for the time being, we are adopting this principle. I said, let the principle be well espoused and then we stick to it. I do not want us to get midstream and then we change the goal post like it happened previously; I do not think that will lead us anywhere. So I think we should respect it and allow it to go until we come to make a firm determination that no, where we are, we should conform to established practices.
    I have no objection at all and as I said, I just wanted the Hon Majority Leader to come clean yesterday. There was a lot of prevarication. I do not know where he was going, whether he was afraid he would fall from the truck but Mr Speaker, I believe the principle should be respected.
    I thank you.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    Hon Members, the consensus reached by Leadership on that matter is therefore that, the structure of Parliament should inform who leads such delegations. Therefore, the Majority side of our Parliament should provide the leader of the delegation to the ECOWAS Parliament; for that matter, Hon Nyaunu as indicated by the Majority Leader--
    rose
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    Hon Minority Leader, what do you have again?
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, not to question the leadership of Hon Nyaunu-- the espouser that I put forth was that if it is to be informed by the structure, then the most senior officer should lead but we grant that we are still evolving and so we allow the Majority to lead; I think that was what the Hon Majority Leader said. And I am saying that we do not want to rake the wound, so let it stand. But if it is to resort to established
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:20 p.m.


    practice of resorting to the structure of Parliament, then that will not be what should be.

    But given the exigencies of our times as put forward by the Hon Majority Leader, we are going forward with that until Parliament, when we have further evolved, takes a position that from hence this should be how business should be conducted.

    So Mr Speaker, that is it.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    So that structure is not - Structure can be seen only in terms of the Majority and Minority and I think this is the essence of this - structure. How is our Parliament structured? There is a Majority; we know who are the Majority and there is the Minority and we know the Minority and that is what I meant by this, and that in future, leadership of delegation should be determined by the Majority side as indeed, our Parliament is structured.
    In this connection, the Majority side of the House has indicated as per the Hon Majority Leader that Hon Nyaunu will be the leader of the delegation.
    Hon Members, it is pertinent to inform you that the Polytechnics Act, 2007 (Act 745), (9), section 9(8) reads:
    “The proceedings of the Council shall not be invalidated by reason of a vacancy among the members or a defect in the appointment or qualification of a member.”
    So you will realise that in actual fact, this kind of saving clause is in a number of legislations and I think we must impartially inform ourselves on some of these matters. These saving clauses are known and I believe you can find -
    In fact, that is why I wanted us to wait
    Mr Avoka 2:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I just wanted to chip in on a light note that that Act was passed in 2007.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    Hon Majority Leader, I will be very glad if no Hon Member tries to turn it in, and then we will forget about all those -- Hon Boafo, I hope with this -- We should be able to accommodate some of these things.
    Mr Boafo 2:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I agree with you but subsequent Parliaments are not bound by this.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    We all know that but we want to say that these things have appropriate antecedents. Very well, I think it will guide us till tomorrow so that we can make progress without much ado.
    The House stands adjourned.
    Thank you very much, Hon Members.
    ADJOURNMENT 2:20 p.m.
  • The House was adjourned at 2.26 p.m. till Friday, 5th November, 2010 at 10.00 a.m.