Debates of 24 Nov 2010

MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:25 a.m.
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:25 a.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Item 2 on the Order Paper: Correction of Votes and Proceedings and the Official Report.
Correction of Votes and Proceedings of Tuesday, 23rd November, 2010.
Page 1...7 -
Mr Isaac Osei 10:25 a.m.
Mr Speaker, item 6, on page 7, it says “. . . Mr Isaac Osei made a statement on the dumping of foreign goods by exporters . . .”
Dumping of foreign goods could not be by exporters; it could be by foreign exporters or local importers, you know; local importers. So I prefer you delete that and just write “made a statement on the dumping of foreign goods on the Ghanaian market.” I think that will capture the essence of what I said.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Very well. Table Office should take note.
Page 8 ... 18 -
Hon Members , the Votes and Proceedings of Tuesday, 23rd November, 2010 as corrected, is hereby adopted as the true record of proceedings.
Hon Members, we also have the Official
Mr Alfred W. G. Abayateye 10:25 a.m.
Mr Speaker, column 1193, the column associated with me; line 4, I said “it made provision for 10 years” but it is stated here as “three”. “The law on people with disability made provision for ten (10) years that public buildings which are already in existence must be converted.” So it should be recorded “10” and not “three”. That is what I said. So the “three” should be changed to “10”.
Mr Ambrose P. Dery 10:25 a.m.
Mr Speaker, column 1214, the third paragraph, third line -- Mr Speaker, with your permission, I will read:
“Mr Speaker, you called Motion number 5 and there has been “indefinite silence”.
Mr Speaker, “deafening silence” and not “indefinite silence”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Very well.

Hon Members, in the absence of any other corrections, the Official Report of Thursday; 18th November, 2010 is hereby adopted as the true record of proceedings.
ORAL ANSWERS TO 10:25 a.m.
QUESTIONS 10:25 a.m.
MINISTRY OF LOCAL 10:25 a.m.
GOVERNMENT AND RURAL 10:25 a.m.
DEVELOPMENT 10:25 a.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Have you amended the Question? If you are amending it, amend it because it is different from what you read.
Mr Ameyaw-Cheremeh 10:25 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am sorry. I reinstated August/ September.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Hon Member, we all know that their term ended in October, so you just amend it. At the time that you asked the Question, maybe, you were not too sure when their term was going to end but we all know that their term ended on October 31, 2010, so amend the Question accordingly.
Mr Ameyaw-Cheremeh 10:25 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, I crave your indulgence to replace “August/September” with “October” in the Question.
Thank you.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:25 a.m.
Very well.
Minister for Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Joseph Yieleh Chireh) 10:25 a.m.
Mr Speaker, in practice, ex gratia award to Assembly members are paid by the various Assemblies, according to their ability to pay.
Mr Ameyaw-Cheremeh 10:25 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am very happy with the Answer provided by the Hon Minister to the effect that the various Assemblies determine how much they must pay Assembly members, according to their own ability to pay.
I want the Hon Minister to confirm, Mr Speaker, that his Ministry shall not or whether his Ministry will not issue any directive regarding the ceiling on the amount that an Assembly has to pay to its members.
Mr Chireh 10:25 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Ministry will not issue any guidelines as far as that is concerned, to put any seal on what they will determine to pay.
Mr Ameyaw-Cheremeh 10:25 a.m.
Mr Speaker, can the Hon Minister confirm to this House whether he has not already issued a directive or a guideline regarding the payment of ex gratia to Assembly members.
Mr Chireh 10:35 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I have been very careful about issuing guidelines and directives to Assemblies. As far as I am concerned, when Assemblies were calling me to determine how much they should pay, I said, “No, I could not determine that”. So I am not aware of any guidelines to the effect that this is how much they should pay. If they are referring to earlier ones, fine, but not as far as I am concerned.
Mr Ameyaw-Cheremeh 10:35 a.m.
Mr Speaker, on the 28th of October this year, the Hon Minister wrote instructing all District Assemblies to cease to exist because the term of Assembly members was coming to an end by 30th October, knowing very well that 28th was a Thursday, 29th was a Friday and it will be difficult for Assembly members to convene and even pass a resolution regarding these matters.
Now the Assemblies have been dissolved without any Assembly determining how much ex gratia should be paid to Assembly members. I want to find out from him when he thinks the Assemblies would be able to determine ex gratia for the Assembly members.
Mr Chireh 10:35 a.m.
Mr Speaker, what my
Hon Colleague is saying is to the effect determining how Assemblies meet and transact their business. Indeed, a number of times, I have talked, explained and
Mr Albert Kan-Dapaah 10:35 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I just want your guidance. I do not want to ask you a direct question.
Mr Speaker, these Questions that we ask of Ministers are of a lot of relevance to us as Hon Members of this House. When I read the Question and the one sentence Answer that had been given, I want your guidance -- I do not get the impression that the Hon Minister wanted to accord the Question the importance that it deserved.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Hon Member, you know that that is why we have supplementary questions, so that during the supplementary questions, you can ask as many questions to bring out whatever the Hon Minister is trying to keep under his armpit.
The last time, I learnt that one Hon Member said the Answer was too long and it was the longest Answer in the history of this Parliament. Today, it is that the Answer is -- [Laughter.] All right. Hon Members, I will take --
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 10:35 a.m.
Mr Speaker, is there any policy by Government in respect of payment of ex gratia to Assembly members? Since we know that Assembly members are not paid emoluments, is there any policy by Government for Assembly members?
Mr Chireh 10:35 a.m.
Mr Speaker, indeed, if he can call that a policy and article 250 (2) of the Constitution says that the emoluments of a Presiding Member and other members of the Assembly should be from their own sources. Act 462 amplified it.
In the Answer I gave, I said “if there were earlier directives”, not as far as I am concerned,” because this is a clearly legal issue and it is very clear from the law that no policy can be issued or formulated against the law. But if it is a policy now to change the law, that would have to go to the constitutional point, otherwise, there is no policy.
Mr Charles S. Hodogbey 10:35 a.m.
Mr Speaker from the Hon Minister's Answer, it is “the ability to pay”. I would like to know from him if it means that if an Assembly is not able to pay the ex gratia, those Assembly members will not enjoy the same benefits like other Assembly members who are able to pay.
Mr Chireh 10:35 a.m.
Mr Speaker, what we urge all Assemblies to do is to be able to generate resources to support their activities and this is indirectly telling the Assemblies to do more. If they raise more revenue, they should be able to have the money to pay but I will not decree that once you do not have -- They should also not go and borrow and pay themselves. If they borrow to pay, who will come and pay?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Hon Members, I will take the last question on this matter.
Mrs Catherine A. Afeku 10:35 a.m.
Mr Speaker, from the Answer given by our Hon Minister, I would like to find out from him -- when you read it carefully, it actually states that “payment of ex
gratia to the Assembly members will be at the discretion of the District Chief Executives or Municipal Chief Executives”. [Interruption.] That is what it states, the “ability to pay”.
Mr Speaker, my question is, this “ability to pay”, does it extend also to the ability to pay Hon Members' District Assemblies Common Fund disbursement?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Hon Member, that is not a supplementary question. We are talking about ex gratia to Assembly members, not the District Assemblies Common Fund.
Mrs Afeku 10:35 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I thought it was “payment.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Rephrase the question.
Mrs Afeku 10:35 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I will rephrase my question, since it is on payment.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Payment of ex-gratia to Assembly members.
Mrs Afeku 10:35 a.m.
Mr Speaker, as Hon Members, we are ex officio members of the Assemblies. In that vein, does the “ability to pay” also extend to the ability to pay and disburse District Assembly Common Fund (DACF) of Members, where Members of Parliament have to struggle to get it from their various Assemblies?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:35 a.m.
Hon Member, this is not supplementary. This is talking about District Assemblies Common Fund.
Mr Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister alluded to article 250 (2) of the Constitution and Mr Speaker, with your permission, I beg to quote:
“The emolument of a Presiding
Mr Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:45 a.m.


Member of a District Assembly and other members of the Assembly shall be determined by the District Assembly and paid out of the Assembly's own resources”.

But in his Answer, he merely states that it depends on the ability to pay without mentioning resources generated internally. How does he reconcile the two? Is it the case that in this particular case, if they have some fund sitting somewhere in the Assembly, they can fall on it to pay themselves?
Mr Chireh 10:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I have to say that because we are all guided by the law, Act 462 reiterates what is in the Constitution and so all the Assemblies are aware of this provision. That is why I put it the way I did.
Of course, one of my Hon Colleagues was also saying that the Answer was too short but I have had the opportunity to explain. I am saying that because this is already provided in the law, everybody should be guided by the law and that is why I gave the Answer as it is.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:45 a.m.
What the
Assemblies could pay their members, is it ex gratia or gratuity?
Mr Chireh 10:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, my Friend
is asking me whether I am working at the Fair Wages and Salaries Commission to determine the different types. I think that when there was so much noise about our gratuity payment and the confusion about End of Service Benefits, ex gratia, I really do not know the difference. The effect is what I know, that money will come into somebody's pocket.
Mr Ambrose P. Dery 10:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that the Hon Minister for Local Government and Rural Development was asked about End of Service Benefits. If he chose to use “ex gratia”, I believe that he used it on purpose, so he should be able
to tell us. This is because the Question was not on ex gratia.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Hon
Minister, the question is about End of Service Benefits; you are using ex gratia.
Mr Chireh 10:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I think
that they are interchangeable in terms of meaning and that is why I used that. But you know that in this country there was a history of End of Service Benefits being a problem, so that is why I put the “ex gratia”. But the “ex gratia” and “End of Service Benefits”, “gratuity” -- In fact, if I may add “pension payment” --
Unit Committees and membership of each committee
(Reduction)
Q.531. Mr John Agyabeng asked
the Minister for Local Government and Rural Development when the Ministry would implement the reduction of unit committees from 16,000 to 5,000 and the membership of each committee from 15 to 7.
Mr Joseph Y. Chireh 10:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, before I answer the Question, there is a little omission of the membership which I would read and add, if this House agrees.
Mr Speaker, the Legislative Instrument (L.I.) l967 has been passed and this has reduced the number of electoral areas from 16,000 to a number coterminus with the number of electoral areas in the country. The number of electoral areas in the country now, has been determined by L.I. l983, which puts it at about 6,000. L.I. l967 also reduces the membership of the unit committee to five members only.
Thank you.
Mr Agyabeng 10:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, in
September, 2008, Cabinet approved a proposal from the Electoral Commission to reduce the number from 16,000 to 5,000 and that of membership of unit committees
from l5 to 7. Preparation was made for an L.I. to be presented to Parliament for approval. The Hon Minister, after resuming office, after l5 months, failed to bring the L.I. and that has caused the delay. So, I want to ask him what caused the delay in sending the L.I. to Parliament in order to avoid the delay in the District Assembly Elections.
Mr Chireh 10:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Electoral
Commission, in February this year, presented to me a proposal for this reduction. Subsequently, the Ministry submitted this to Cabinet and it was approved. If you look at when this was done as against any delay that would have been caused, it cannot be because of this.
Yesterday's actions that we took here in terms of the L. I. l983 and C.I. 68, are in the domain, largely of the Electoral Commission. You will also see that it involves a lot of consultation, a lot of things to be done but rather you should be commending me for working on them. Process started in 2002 and for eight or six years, the Government then did not do anything.
But this year, when they brought the matter to me at the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, we fast-tracked the process and passed the L.I. with your kind support. So, we did not delay anything. I had to emphasize that it is because of the nature of the work involved that these delays are occurring.
Mr Agyabeng 10:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, according
to the Ghana Poverty Reduction Report, 2008, the whole process was completed in September, 2008 and all the preparations for the L.I. got started. He is bringing the L.I. to Parliament around this time. I am asking him why, and he is saying we should commend him for bringing it earlier. It was not true. He should read the Ghana Poverty Reduction Strategy book. The whole process was completed
in September, 2008. After l8 months in office, why the delay? He cannot tell me that the Electoral Commission brought it to him just this year. So I am asking him to explain the delay.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Hon
Member, ask your question. The question you have asked now is not different from the previous one.
Mr Agyabeng 10:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, my
question is, I want him to convince the House why he delayed after staying in that office for l5 months.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:45 a.m.
Hon Member, he has answered that question. It might not be convincing but that is his answer. If you have any other question, please, go ahead and ask.
Mr Agyabeng 10:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the original proposal from the Electoral Commission was for the membership of the unit committees to move from l5 to 7. Why the five now?
Mr Chireh 10:55 a.m.
Mr Speaker, they were recommendations and in fact, if you look at what they brought to me, they had to do further consultation and they have proposed options. One of them was that we should have five elected members only, but if the Government wants to appoint people as it used to do, then they should add two. That is why the recommendation of seven came about. But in the discussions and their submission and having the difficulty sometimes associated with getting appointees onto these unit committees, the purpose was to leave only elected members there, and that is why it is five and not seven.
The document he is referring to is an official document but the processes in Government require that if there is such a proposal made, as he said, in 2008, then the Hon Minister who was there in
Mr Chireh 10:55 a.m.


2008 should have sent a memorandum to Cabinet through which it will eventually come here. What I am saying to him is that this was not done, so the whole process started this year.

Fiscal Decentralisation Agenda (Operationalisation)

Q. 532. Mr John Agyabeng asked the Minister for Local Government and Rural Development when the fiscal decentralisation agenda which obliged the District Assemblies to embark on decentralised budgeting within the medium-term would be operationalised.
Mr Joseph Y. Chireh 10:55 a.m.
Mr Speaker, a Comprehensive Decentralization Policy Framework with action plan has been approved by Cabinet and this includes the InterGovernmental Fiscal Framework.
The InterGovernmental Fiscal Framework has been costed and an Inter- Ministerial Co-ordination Committee on Fiscal Decentralization has been put in place. The Committee will audit all Metropolitan/Municipal/District Assemblies (MMDAs) to determine their needs to enable the fiscal decentralization to take place.
Mr Speaker, permit me to observe that fiscal decentralization is more of a national, rather than a district level challenge. Fiscal decentralization involves restructuring of public administration and public financial management arrangements as follows:
Disaggregation of functions between central, regional and local levels.
Disaggregation of current budgetary resources among the various levels of Government.
Transfer of functions and resources
from the central to lower levels.
Constituting the departments of the Assemblies as envisaged under the decentralization policy and laws.
Ensure that the Assembly budget is the sum of all departments under the control of the MMDAs.
Undertake training of the Assemblies on how to prepare the district budget, and to interface or link up with the centre.
Mr Speaker, the Government considers the following, which are integral points of fiscal decentralization, as priorities:
i m p l e m e n t i n g t h e D i s t r i c t Composite Budget;
improving local revenue generation;
improving Central Government Transfer systems;
improving financial management system of MMDAs; and
review up and harmonize the legislation related to public administration and financial management system that impinge on decentralization.
It is obvious that the above steps are fundamental to implementing fiscal decentralization, while the last point puts a burden on us as Members of Parliament to pass decentralization friendly legislations.
Mr Speake r, w i th t he F i s ca l Decentralization Secretariat in place, the full implementation of the above initiatives, in collaboration with the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning, will be pursued vigorously, come 2011. Initial discussions among MLGRD/ MoFEP/ CAGD have already
taken place.
Mr Agyabeng 10:55 a.m.
Mr Speaker, according to the Hon Minister's Answer, one of the conditions that will ensure proper fiscal decentralisation will depend on improving revenue at the local level.
I want to ask him, what measures is he putting in place to ensure maximum revenue generation at the local level since the 2009 report of internal generated revenue at the local level is very bad.
Mr Chireh 10:55 a.m.
Mr Speaker, all efforts are being made to get Assemblies to generate more revenue for their use. A number of workshops have been organised to enlighten Assemblies on how to raise revenue. The recommendations that we have made to some of them are also to use technology to increase the collection of all the levies and fees raised and some of them have gone into arrangements with private sector operators to help them raise their revenue.
Others involve making sure that they are business-friendly so that they will be able to generate some economic activities within the Assemblies that will finally let them get the requisite revenue from those operators.
Indeed, a whole programme of how to relate to the local economic development has been taking place and it is being undertaken by the Institute of Local Government Studies, the Local Government Service Secretariat and other development partners.
Mr Agyabeng 10:55 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister's Answer also indicates that there is a problem with transfer from the Central Government to the local authorities, and before we can ensure a full fiscal decentralisation, there must be an improvement in the transfer from the Central Government to the local authorities. As he himself is aware, the District Assemblies are yet to get their quarter of the District Assemblies Common Fund.
So, I want to ask him if he thinks that this is one of the conditions that will ensure proper fiscal decentralisation, what is he doing to ensure a timely transfer from the Central Government to the local authorities.
Mr Chireh 10:55 a.m.
Mr Speaker, that is why I indicated that the Ministry, together with the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning - This is because the part that he is talking about has more to do with finance. But we are looking at reviewing the legislation and the processes and the Controller and Accountant-General's Department is closely involved in that.
The review of the legislation also looks at particularly the District Assemblies Common Fund. If you look at the present law and the procedures involved, the delays in the releases and all that to the Assemblies, are also part of the problem in the law and we intend to review the law too.
Mr Agyabeng 11:05 a.m.
Mr Speaker, in last
year's Budget, the Hon Minister for Finance and Economic Planning indicated that physical decentralization would be implemented in 2010. And this year, the 2011 Budget, item 729, the Hon Minister has repeated it as a commitment to implement fiscal decentralisation at the district level.
I want to ask him to assure the House whether it will not happen as it happened last year. This is because in last year's Budget, the Hon Minister for Finance and Economic Planning indicated that implementation would take place in 2010; it did not happen.
This year, item 729, the Hon Minister for Finance and Economic Planning has repeated it that in collaboration with the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, implementation will take
Mr Agyabeng 11:05 a.m.


place next year. I want him to assure the House whether the same situation will not occur again.
Mr Chireh 11:05 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I have already indicated in the Answer that preliminary discussions have taken place among the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development together with the Controller and Accountant-General and a Secretariat has been set up to do this. That is to ensure that what we did not do this year, we will do next year.
Office Accommodation for Bosome-
Freho District Assembly (Provison)
Q. 585. Nana Yaw Ofori-Kuragu asked the Minister for Local Government and Rural Development when the newly- created Bosome-Freho District Assembly would be provided with office accommodation.
Mr Joseph Y. Chireh 11:05 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Ministry has noted with great concern, the lack of infrastructure and logistics for the sixty (60) newly-created District Assemblies (28 created in year 2004 and 32 created in year 2008).
In an effort to address this problem, the Ministry earlier this year conducted an inventory of the infrastructure and staff needs of the Assemblies. Following from this, a task team to work out some modalities for resourcing the newly- created District Assemblies has been set up and it is hoped that by the end of the year, clear guidelines will be available for implementation. Meanwhile, a number of these Assemblies have embarked upon construction of facilities from their own resources.
Nana Ofori-Kuragu 11:05 a.m.
Mr Speaker, it is heartwarming to know from the Hon
Minister that he has the newly-created districts at the back of his mind. But being the fast-track Hon Minister that he is -- [Interruptions] -- He claims he is fast-track -- I will urge him to do his best because the situation that these Assemblies find themselves in is appalling. To create a district without an office accommodation, does not augur well for his Ministry. So, I want him to assure the newly-created districts that he will try and contract a loan to construct these buildings for the Assemblies.
Mr Chireh 11:05 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank him
very much for the suggestion. We are going to work seriously about it.
Again, as he has clearly noted, some of them are in a very bad situation, so that is why we think that being 60 of them --In fact, some of the existing ones also have poor conditions -- So we need to have a proper arrangement to resource them.
If we rush to announce any budgetary arrangements, then we will run into difficulties. That is why it has taken sometime, but we will work as fast as we can to make sure that the position is changed.
Mr Joe K. Gidisu 11:05 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I want to find out from the Hon Minister, when this new district was really created and at that time, if there was any arrangement for its facilities.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:05 a.m.
Hon
Minister, ask the question again.
Mr J. K. Gidisu 11:05 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I would
want to find out from the Hon Minister when the new district under reference was really created, and if at that time there was any infrastructural arrangement for that district.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:05 a.m.
Hon
Member, when the District Assemblies were created is in the Answer. And as to
when they were created, we were told they were created in 2004 and 2008.
District Assemblies Common Fund (Increase)
Q. 600. Mr Kwasi Ameyaw-Cheremeh asked the Minister for Local Government and Rural Development what plans the Government had to increase the District Assemblies Common Fund (DACF) from the current level of 7. 5 per cent.
Mr Joseph Y. Chireh 11:05 a.m.
Mr Speaker, Government recognizes the numerous responsibilities assigned to the District Assemblies, especially with the transfer of functions. It is expected that functions and responsibilities must go with resources.
There are no immediate plans to increase the DACF. Nevertheless, the Ministry is considering other initiatives to ensure that the District Assemblies get additional resources to carry out their responsibilities. This includes the development and implementation of the District Development Fund (DDF).
Meanwhile, the Ministry is considering proposals for the inclusion of Public- Private Participation (PPP) in the management of some development activities of the District Assemblies.
Mr Ameyaw-Cheremeh 11:15 a.m.
Mr Speaker,
in paragraph 2 of the Minister's Answer, he alludes to the fact that there are other initiatives to resource the District Assemblies and he mentioned the District Development Fund. Would he be kind enough to tell us what the other initiatives are, apart from the DDF?
Mr Chireh 11:15 a.m.
Mr Speaker, there are
a number of initiatives. One of them is the Ghana Social Opportunities Project, which passed through this Parliament and which will support Assemblies to
undertake labour-intensive public works to what is needed in the districts.
We also have the pilot programme of Ghana Urban Pilot Project (GUPP), covering four Metropolitan and Municipal Assemblies. Again, these are aimed at giving them additional resources to be able to undertake some of their assignments.
Almost all the other initiatives that we are working on are to get on board resources either than just the resources from Government. And currently, we have, discussions with the European Union and the World Bank as to how they can support the urban sector in particular for us to have long -term things. But I am sure that in due course, this will have to come to this House for you to be fully apprised of them.
Mr Ameyaw-Cheremeh 11:15 a.m.
Mr
Speaker, the fundamental principle in physical decentralization is that funds follow functions which the Minister has underscored in the first paragraph of his Answer. In the light of the fact that L.I. 1961 has been passed and a number of responsibilities have been pushed onto the District Assemblies, would he agree with me that the stance he has taken, that there are no immediate plans to increase the District Assemblies Common Fund, will not work in the interest of District Assemblies in this country?
Mr Chireh 11:15 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the fact
that there are no immediate plans, will not affect adversely what we are doing. Indeed, with the L.I. 1961 passed, the Local Government Secretariat is in the process of setting up the various departments.
Again, it is also still a problem for us to transfer effectively those decentralised departments that have legal backing which we have not yet made amendments to the law and therefore, it is setting up these. And as we do so during the course of the year, 2011, the requisite transfers that each of these decentralized departments
Mr Chireh 11:15 a.m.


should have been doing from the centre, will necessarily be additional to the Assemblies. This is not because of the DACF alone.

The DACF as a source, is not the only source for supporting activities on the ground. It is the money and the resources that are allocated to these decentralized departments that will appropriately be relocated in the districts. That is what will indicate the transfer of functions and responsibilities.
Mr Ameyaw-Cheremeh 11:15 a.m.
Mr Speaker,
the Hon Minister, in his last paragraph, talks about the Ministry considering proposals for the inclusion of public- private participation in the management of some developement activities of the District Assemblies. I want him to clarify whether the effort the Ministry is taking in this direction precludes the District Assemblies from embarking on public private partnership on their own because they are entities on their own.
Mr Chireh 11:15 a.m.
Mr Speaker, it does
not. Indeed, we want to build their capacity but they must do so on a policy that is national in character. It has to be guiding principles because public-private partnerships are the things that you cannot just leave to each Assembly to be doing. The Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning is working on the document and it will be made public. Within that, each Assembly will then on its own make the arrangements, take the decisions with the private sector for collaboration.
Thank you.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Last
question on this one, Hon Member for Bekwai.
Mr Joseph Osei-Owusu 11:15 a.m.
Mr Speaker,
the Minister, in his Answer, stated that transfer of responsibility and functions must go with resources. I would want to know when the third quarter DACF allocation to the District and Municipal Assemblies would be paid; the third quarter for 2009, when it would be paid.
M r F i r s t D e p u t y S p e a k e r :
Hon Member, you know this is not supplementary.
Mr Osei-Owusu 11:15 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the responsibilities that have been assigned to the -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Hon Member, you know this is not a supplementary question.
Hon Members, that brings us to the end
of Question time.
Hon Minister, we thank you very much for attending upon the House to respond to Questions from Hon Members. You are discharged.
Hon Members, at the Commencement
of Public Business, Presentation of Papers by the Minister for Finance and Economic Planning.
Mr Cletus A. Avoka 11:15 a.m.
Mr Speaker, may I crave your indulgence to permit the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning to lay these Papers on behalf of the Minister for Finance and Economic Planning, who is not available in the House today.
Mr Ambrose P. Dery 11:15 a.m.
Mr Speaker, we have two Deputy Ministers for Finance and Economic Planning here and he says “the Deputy Minister”. I do not want to believe that anybody has been reshuffled without notice to this House. So I would ask the Leader of the House to give us further and better particulars so that we could appropriately deal with the request.
Mr Avoka 11:15 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I think the Hon Deputy Minority Leader is right. My attention had not been drawn to the presence of the Hon Fifi Kwetey, the other Deputy Minister. So I was referring to Hon Seth Tekpeh.
Thank you
Mr Dery 11:15 a.m.
Mr Speaker, with those
particulars given, I think we agree.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Very well.
PAPERS 11:15 a.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Item
number 7, Hon Majority Leader, is that right?
Mr Avoka 11:15 a.m.
Yes, that is so. We have
agreed that we would take item number 6 sometime tomorrow.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:15 a.m.
Very well.
Item number 7, Hon Minority Leader.
BILLS -- SECOND READING 11:25 a.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Hon Minority Leader, I have ruled on this matter, and my ruling is that, let us proceed on this Bill, but they must bring the Commission on the petroleum as a natural resource to this House within a reasonable time. That was my ruling as far back as last Friday.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:25 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank you very much. The issue that I have raised, with respect, and since you observed that the earlier position of the Speaker was a suggestion, is this -- the functions of the Commission are determined by the Constitution. This Bill is about management of resources, which the Constitution charges the Commission to do. And now that you are saying that it should be brought within a reasonable time, Mr Speaker, I have great difficulty. Notwithstanding, I, subject to what you have said, may want to proceed.
rose
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:25 a.m.
I do not
know what my Hon Colleague is up for. [Interruption.] He wants to help me? I do not need his help on this. If he can resume his seat.
Mr Speaker, subject to your ruling as
I said, I may want to proceed on the Bill itself.
Mr Speaker, the -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Hon Minority Leader, you have the floor, he says he wants to help you and you said you did not need his help. So you have to continue. If he were rising to a point of order, it would have been a different matter. But he himself said he wanted to help you. So proceed.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:25 a.m.
Thank you very much -- [Interruption.]
Mr Asaga 11:25 a.m.
Now, it is a point of order.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Hon Member, what has the Hon Minority Leader said that would necessitate a point of order?
Mr Asaga 11:25 a.m.
It is on the formation of the Commission. He is misleading the House by saying it is linked to the Revenue Management Bill. It is not linked to it. I want to put on record, it is not linked to that and - [Interruptions] -- Yes, it is a point of order because he is misleading.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Hon Member for Nabdam, the Hon Minority Leader is entitled to his opinion and that one, nobody can take it away from him. That is his opinion, that it is linked to it. I have ruled on the matter, that let us proceed with this Bill and bring the other one within a reasonable time, and he is proceeding accordingly.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:25 a.m.
Thank you Mr Speaker, for injecting sanity. [Laughter!]
Mr Speaker, the construction in the Constitution is clear and if I may, the Constitution provides as per article 269

Mr Speaker, what is he saying? That I am out of order? Mr Speaker, I may want to ignore him and proceed further.
rose
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:25 a.m.
The defects of an existing law and the remedies proposed -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Hon Member for Nabdam, you are a senior Member of this House; I have ruled on this matter. What is the problem again?
Mr Asaga 11:25 a.m.
But point of -- I think that being a senior Member, the words he is using - are unparliamentary. Since I got up, I have not used any unparliamentary language against my Hon Colleague, and he is using things like, “let sanity prevail”. Who is insane? So, I think that we are also Hon Colleagues; he came in 1997, I came in 1997. So why would he use such words, that “let sanity prevail”? In my opinion, these words are unparliamentary and offensive.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Hon Minority Leader, he thinks that the words you have used -- since he was the one on the floor before you used the words “let sanity prevail”, it presupposes that he is insane - [Laughter!] That is his interpretation. So Hon Minority Leader, what do you say to that?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:25 a.m.
Mr
Speaker, this interpretation that is being put on it from the Chair, I did not even deduce from what my Hon Colleague said. But I did not say “let sanity prevail”. If he was listening to me, I did not even say that. Until he gets it right, I would go on. Mr Speaker, I cannot offend -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Hon Minority Leader, I know the two of you are great friends -
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:25 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I cannot offend him and if he takes objection to my use of the words:-- “for injecting sanity”, that is what I said. “Injecting sanity” -- I thank the Chair for “Injecting sanity”. If my Hon Colleague is taking offence, Mr Speaker, I withdraw that one. I cannot offend him.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:25 a.m.
Hon Minority Leader, proceed.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:35 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I was saying that the explanatory memorandum of a Bill sets out in detail the policy and principles of a Bill. It then tells us the defects of an existing law, the remedies proposed to deal with those defects and the necessity for the introduction of a Bill.

Mr Speaker, when this Bill first came to Parliament, it came printed on an A4 sheet, it came with no memorandum attached and to that extent, one can say that the Bill suffered some defects as per article 106 (2) (a) of the Constitution. Mr Speaker, again, it came without any gazette notification and again, it offends article 106 (2) (b) of the Constitution. Clearly, Mr Speaker, if a referral is made to a Committee, they are supposed to report to this plenary, using the memorandum which shall form the basis for the debate.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:35 a.m.
Mr Speaker, this is well captured in article 106 (5) and (6) of the Constitution. To the extent that the first Bill that came without the memorandum, came to Parliament without any gazette notification as well to this plenary, to that same extent should we recognize that it was not tidy enough? I know that subsequently the one that came in the normal form came with a correction.

Hon Muntaka is saying that I am lying. Mr Speaker, the first one, that came was on this A4 sheet and ask the Majority Leader, when I misplaced mine, this one, I took from him; I took from him. [Interruption] He does not remember?

Mr Speaker, what happened, certainly, was not the best but I am happy that we had a turn round and let us recognize that it was not tidy; next time, we would do a tidier job.

Mr Speaker, article 175 of the Constitution stipulates that the exercise that we are engaged in now is to establish a special purpose fund for the management of the petroleum revenue. Mr Speaker, this ought, in my view, to be captured appropriately in the memorandum. And why do I say so? Mr Speaker, I say so because of experiences that we have had in this House dealing with the Ghana Education Trust Fund (GETFund), the District Assembly Common Fund (DACF), the Road Fund, et cetera.

The rather weird arrangement where resources of Funds, to resource the GETFund, the Road Fund, first have to hit the Consolidated Fund before they relocate per the intervention of the

Finance Minister into this Fund, is a wrong principle, a very wrong concept. That is why Mr Speaker, it is important for us to recognize that we are setting up a Fund as espoused by article 175 of the Constitution, which is parallel to the Consolidated Fund. That is the exercise we have embarked on today.

Mr Speaker, this new Fund then is different from the ones that we have done previously, and it is for this reason that I am saying that the memorandum should have covered this, so that we would all be very clear in our minds.

Mr Speaker, as provided for by article 175 of the Constitution, the language used for such special purpose funds is “Fund” and now an “Account,” which means that we should, to be consistent with the Constitution, as per article 175, employ the words: “Petroleum Fund”, and not “Petroleum Account” to describe the special purpose Fund that we are setting up. Mr Speaker, otherwise, we may pass the law and it may have to be amended again to be consistent with article 175.

Mr Speaker, if we agree that we are setting up this Fund, a Petroleum Fund, which would run parallel with the Consolidated Fund, then I may want to propose that if Government wants to have any development, premised on the Petroleum Fund -- and we are not saying that Government cannot use the Fund; Government can and indeed, must use the funds for national development. But the point being made is that we should have the regular estimates of revenues and expenditures, which would be different from what would be supported from the Petroleum Fund.

Mr Speaker, in that case, we would be able to better track the use of the resources, and Parliament then would be positioned to properly oversight it. The projects that the Petroleum Fund would be going to

fund, Mr Speaker, would be determined. And what it means therefore, is that apart from the usual budget, that is the normal budget, the other one to be supported from the Petroleum Fund would come with programmes and activities costed from the Finance Minister and which Parliament would give approval to.

Otherwise, Mr Speaker, if we allow it to hang the way it is being proposed to us, Mr Speaker, the road would be very, very slippery for us.

Mr Speaker, just this morning, we were dealing with the District Assemblies and the Hon Minister was kind enough to tell us about one of the key functions of the District Assemblies. The effort at decentralization, Mr Speaker, was premised on two limbs. First, to empower the Assemblies to participate in governance. But second and more important, Mr Speaker, was to enable them raise revenue at the local level for their own development.

Mr Speaker, the reality is that, immediately the Assemblies got to know that there was something called “Common Fund” from Central Government, all of them have stopped mobilizing revenue at the local level and the little that is mobilized Mr Speaker, is unaccounted for; they are misapplied and misappropriated, and it cuts across.

Mr Speaker, there are some Assemblies, in particular, Accra Metropolitan Assembly (AMA), Tema Metropolitan Assembly (TMA), Kumasi Metropolitan Assembly (KMA), Sekondi-Takoradi Metropolitan Assembly (STMA) that can stand on their own without depending on Central Government for anything. But the local initiatives have all been killed immediately they got to know of something called “Common Fund”.

Mr Speaker, if you replicate this at

the national level, one then would come to understand what disease is afflicting neighbouring countries in the sub-region and even some of the notable countries elsewhere.

Mr Speaker, we all talk about the situation in Nigeria. Nigeria used to be the third largest producer and exporter of cocoa, the largest exporter of rubber in Africa, the largest producer of palm oil in Africa, the largest producer of groundnuts in Africa, the largest producer and exporter of zinc in Africa, of coal in Africa. What has happened to Nigeria, Mr Speaker?
Mr Asaga 11:45 a.m.
On a point of order. Mr Speaker, I think the Hon Minority Leader really likes me. He even drew me into his submission. But the only point is also that there is the good practice of Malaysia which was also exporting raw materials but they have discovered oil and they are still leading exporters of all the raw materials he has indicated. So Ghana is going to emulate Malaysia.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:45 a.m.
Hon Member, he did not mention Malaysia; he backs his submission with Nigeria and Gabon. He backed his submission with the examples of Nigeria and Gabon.
Hon Minority Leader, continue.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, for his elucidation and edification, he
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:45 a.m.


knows that Nigeria and Gabon are not the only countries suffering this malaise. We can talk about Equatorial Guinea; we could talk about even Mexico and Venezuela before the discovery of oil.

Mr Speaker, it is for this reason that today, in spite of the tremendous potential of Nigeria, the economy is 95 per cent dependent on oil. Mr Speaker, that is a path that Ghana should not pursue.

Mr Speaker, as I have already indicated, the better arrangement is for us to have this oil fund established outside the Consolidated Fund and if we agree on the percentage to support national development, the Government then would each year submit development proposals on programmes and activities to be funded from the revenue from the oil fund.

Mr Speaker, the other matter that should concern us is the terrain which has been mapped out for application of the oil revenue. Eleven areas have been defined by the proposals before us. Mr Speaker, I am aware that these areas attempt to encapsulate the ingredients of national development as captured by the Directive Principles of State Policy in article 36 of the Constitution. One area which we have omitted though is science and technology.

Mr Speaker, I am happy that yesterday, the Hon Dr Alhassan anticipated what I was going to say today and brought this up. Mr Speaker, I think that it is something that we should as a nation concern ourselves with.

Mr Speaker, that notwithstanding, I believe that the field of application undoubtedly is too vast for each year. For the nation to experience the impacts of oil revenue, we cannot afford to spread out so thinly. And again, I am happy that the Hon Member for Asawase (Hon Muntaka) concurred with the position earlier taken by Dr Akoto Osei (Member for Old Tafo) and reiterated by Prof. Gyan-Baffour. That we should determine for ourselves from among that list, because those are important areas of our national life. From among that list, we can determine, maybe, not more than four priority areas, which may be subject to review every three years.

Mr Speaker, but there may be a practical problem as was mentioned to me by my Hon Colleague, the Hon Member for Old Tafo (Dr Akoto Osei) who related to a practical situation. Consider the fact that maybe, we have defined for ourselves four areas, as I have said, to be pursued in three years. Then in the course of the roll out of that programme, there is a crisis in one area, which is not included in the areas of priority, what do we do? Perhaps, we may have a construction which will allow the Hon Minister to come back to Parliament to submit proposals for us to give special consideration for that.

But Mr Speaker, the mention of crisis situations really leads us to the need to once again look at the provisions of article 175 of the Constitution which obliges Parliament to establish per an Act of Parliament, a contingency fund. Mr Speaker, for “donkey” years - in fact, since the inception of the Fourth Republic, this Parliament has not come round to establishing a contingency fund by an Act of Parliament.

There are various lines for contingency in the various allocations to the various MDAs every year but they have not fulfilled article 175 of the Constitution. And I believe that the time has come for

us to look at this situation critically and establish for ourselves a contingency fund.

Still on the application of the revenue, Mr Speaker, again, taking a cue from the Directive Principles of State Policy, in particular, article 36 (1), (2) and (6), we are told that we should be guided by a long- term national development strategy as approved by Parliament. It is rather unfortunate again that all this while, this nation has not provided for ourselves since the inception of the Fourth Republic, a long-term national development plan.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:45 a.m.
We are thankful to God that at this moment in our national life, we have to deal with a review of the Constitution. I believe this is one of the areas that we may have to look at and -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:45 a.m.
Hon Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing -
Mr Alban S. K. Bagbin 11:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, just to share information with my Hon Colleague that in 1995, this House debated a long-term national development plan and approved it -- Vision 2020. The first medium-term is what was rolled out up to 2000; it was from 1996 to 2000. Then after that there was no other plan from that vision, it was changed to Vision 2010. But that came out with a document called 2013; but because of the Millenium Development Goals (MDGs) 2015, it
changed to Vision 2015.
But the long-term development plan, at least, this House had the opportunity to debate one in 1995, which was the Vision 2020 -- [Interruption] - That was Parliament of Ghana. It is because of his reference that since the inception of this Republic, we have not had one that I am drawing his attention.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:45 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I know what the former Majority Leader is alluding to. But Mr Speaker, I qualified what I said. I said “any serious non-partisan” - [Interruption] - Yes, because Mr Speaker, I am aware of how the product came to Parliament and we know those of them who were on that Committee. And that is why I am saying that we should prune the NDPC of people of serious political coloration -- [Interruption.]
rose
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:45 a.m.
So that the product that ensues from them could be taken by all of us and any - [Interruption.]
Mr Bagbin 11:45 a.m.
Hon Minority Leader, in addressing the Speaker, I want to draw his attention to the composition of the team that actually drew Vision 2020. It was not a partisan team at all.
If you look at the membership, very senior members of those who are now in various political parties, New Patriotic Party (NPP), National Democratic Congress (NDC), People's National Convention (PNC), Convention People's Party (CPP), were members of that team that drew that Vision 2020.
It is true that at the time they presented it to the Parliament of Ghana, there was a Progressive Alliance Party that was in power but the team that prepared the Vision 2020 was non-partisan. That is very clear.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:55 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I have been very careful in talking about the products from the NDPC, the composition of which is defined by our Constitution as per article 86 (2) and my former Majority Leader knows that. He knows the vehicle people used to get to the NDPC. Mr Speaker, that is the matter I am addressing and that is why I am saying that we need to have a structure that will be devoid of partisanship so that the product that ensues will be a genuinely national development planning agenda, which the NDC will find very comfortable buying into if they are in government; the CPP will find comfortable buying into if they are in government; equally so for the NPP. That is the point I am making and he cannot fault me on that.
Mr Speaker, this is very tangential to the point I am raising That is the point I have made about the NDPC.
Mr Speaker, the third matter that the Committee has thrown back to the plenary because the Committee agreed to disagree remains to the prohibited use of petroleum revenue. This goes to the pivot of the Bill. It is in my view a matter of policy. It is interesting to consider the response to this proposal from Government. Government put forth this proposal in the Bill because according to them the experiences from countries like Mexico, Nigeria, Gabon, Venezuela, Equatorial Guinea, even the United Arab Emirates in this regard have led to dire consequences. It explains why Venezuela, United Arab Emirates in particular and Equatorial Guinea are beating a retreat from this entanglement.
We are informed by a report from a team put together by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning that the vast majority
of those who took part in the national consultation in the Petroleum Revenue Management proposals expressed the wish to prohibit oil-backed loans. If we allow oil-backed loans, in my view, we will throw to the dogs whatever consultative and participatory arrangements that must be observed in order to ensure prudent use of the petroleum revenue.
Mr Speaker, a very respected colleague of ours, Dr Kojo Appiah-Kubi (Hon Member for Atwima-Kwanwoma) has written a classic piece on lessons we in Ghana need to learn from our big brother, Nigeria. Permit me, Mr Speaker, to quote two paragraphs from the write-up from the Hon Colleague to make the point about borrowing against oil revenue. Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, I may want to quote:
“During the mid-seventies, the presence of proving oil reserves amidst increasing oil prices gave Nigeria a perceived credit rating far higher than its domestic and macro-economic fundamentals would have otherwise justified with the industrialized world seeking for other oil sources to meet their ever-increasing demand for oil, alternative to the volatile Middle East, it turned to Nigeria with offers of new loans to build its social and economic infrastructure.
Without any blueprint for sustainable utilization of its oil revenues, the country began a massive infrastructural development, financed with short- term loans. Indeed, some western countries with their eyes on Nigeria oil competed among themselves to finance and construct infrastructural projects and import substitution industries.”
Mr Speaker, that is how come Nigeria
saw in its oil wealth an increasing oil revenues from rising oil prices as de facto collateral for loans without due consideration to revenue volatility normally associated with oil price instability be moved to finance spending programmes. Against fiscal caution, the Government ran deficit budget financing and borrowed deficit budget financing and borrowed against future oil income to finance life scale projects designed ostensibly to boost economic activity, symbolize Government achievement and lift local and regional profile.
Mr Speaker, with so many projects implemented at the same time, the country's capacity to efficiently implement these projects, for which loans have been contracted became seriously challenged and outstripped. The results were high level mismanagement and pervasive corruption. The high level of corruption led the World Bank to conclude that --
“80 per cent of Nigerian's oil revenue benefited only one per cent of the population.”
Mr Speaker, we have these lessons to learn from, and Ghana can avoid going on the slippery road of borrowing against oil revenue.
Mr Speaker, clearly, and all of us should be very clear in our minds that one of the cardinal principles informing this U-turn is the STX Agreement. [Interruptions.] Everybody knows that. It is the STX Agreement. My Hon Colleague is smiling at me. The Hon Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing is asking “Why” - what has the STX got to do with it? He knows deep down his heart that that informed the U-turn that Government is making.
Mr Bagbin 11:55 a.m.
On a point of order. Mr
Speaker, my Hon Colleague, the Minority Leader, is generating unnecessary debate. The Government has not made any U-turn. Government took a decision to enter into a partnership with a company to construct a number of houses. That is ongoing. There is no U-turn anywhere.
Government took a decision that they would not use oil as a collateral for the loan. That is ongoing. We used sovereign guarantee, it is still sovereign guarantee and that was approved by this House. So I do not know where “U-turn” comes in here. Why? Is it “Y-turn” or “V-turn”. There is no turn, we are going direct, straight ahead and we will implement it.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, clearly, the Hon Minister was not listening to what I was saying, otherwise, he would not go in full flight on wrong tangent. Mr Speaker, he was not listening to what I was saying.
The U-turn is in respect of the Bill. That is what I was saying, if he was listening. [Interruption.] Mr Speaker, he was clearly not listening to me. That was the point I was making, that it was to allow Government really, to attempt to pay this loan facility that would be coming. That is something that should concern all of us.
Mr Speaker, the other thing that should concern us in the Bill is this matter relating to the Public Interest and Accountability Committee.
Mr Speaker, according to the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning, about 83 per cent of those who took part in the national consultations on the Petroleum Revenue Management proposals, expressed the wish to have a multi-stake- holder and non-governmental oversight body to work with Parliament to ensure that the provisions in the Petroleum Revenue Management Bill, when passed into law, are complied with.
Mr Speaker, I want to read 12:05 p.m.
“This Constitution shall be the supreme law of Ghana and any other law found to be inconsistent with any provision of this Constitution shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be void.”
Mr Speaker, now, we go to article I which provides 12:05 p.m.
“The Sovereign of Ghana resides in the people of Ghana in whose name and for whose welfare the powers of government are to be exercised in the manner and within the limits laid down in this Constitution.”

Mr Speaker, why did we go to the people to consult them? And we are kind enough, and we enjoy referring to the consultations when we say that 56 per cent of the people agree on something, we quote it to suit our purpose -

Alhaj i Mohammed-Mubarak Muntaka - rose --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Hon Member for Asawase, do you have a point of order?
Alhaji Muntaka 12:05 p.m.
On a point of order. Mr Speaker, the Hon Minority Leader is grossly misleading this House. Mr Speaker, by his own quotation, that article 1 (2), and I repeat, with your indulgence,
Mr Speaker 12:05 p.m.
“This Constitution shall be the supreme law of Ghana and any other law found to be inconsistent with any provision of this Constitution shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be void.”
Mr Speaker, what he is drawing at, saying that the people of this country, he should remember, it was not a referendum. The discussions were held only in Sunyani, in Takoradi and in Accra. It is not a referendum and the Constitution of this country provides that this House is the only House that provides oversight on the public purse with the Auditor- General. So Mr Speaker, what he is saying, he is contradicting himself by quoting article
1 (2).
So he should remind himself of article 1 (2) which puts the powers of oversight only to the Parliament of Ghana through the Auditor-General. So he should remind himself about that.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Dery 12:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that
my Hon Brother on the other side has chosen conveniently to just take part of the argument of article 1 (2) without going to article (1), which the Hon Leader referred as the foundation of our own power. What we are saying is that the people, by electing us here, do not lose their position as the ultimate repository
of the sovereignty of this country and on whose behalf we exercise it.
Therefore, we cannot restrict that further participation to a referendum. We cannot do so. They can partake in various ways and it is arrogant of us to think that we should ignore them. Indeed, one of our functions is to link up with them and make sure we truly represent them here.
The representation here -- so for us to say that it will be a contradiction - we were elected, so we cannot have another group of people outside, it is wrong. That is the point that is being made here and he should understand.
So please, 83 per cent of people contacted said that it should be there. Yes, this same House has quoted 56 per cent to support other parts of the law. We are saying that we do not take away the position of the citizens being the most important in a democracy, therefore, they can partake in other ways like this committee.
Mr Bagbin 12:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in listening
to my Colleagues, I think one thing is clear that, one, they missed the boat, two, they went too far down the river.
The first thing is that, this is a Bill which is before this House, proposed by the President. During the debate, some Hon Members are disagreeing with the proposal from the President. Consultations were made with the people. And that is, some group or a number of the people. They gave a position and some people are disagreeing with that position. That should not be interpreted as arrogance of power. That is the issue I am raising. That is part of democracy, to agree to disagree.
Now, article 1 (1) talks about the sovereignty of Ghana resides in the people of Ghana. The Hon Minister quoted the

The sovereignty of Ghana resides in the people of Ghana in whose name and for whose welfare the powers of government are to be exercised in the manner and within the limits laid down in this Constitution.
rose
Mr Bagbin 12:05 p.m.
What point of order?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:05 p.m.
Hon Members, there cannot be a point of order on a point of order. [Uproar.] Hon Members, he raised the point, and the Deputy Minority Leader got up and I called him. Indeed, I want to inform you that after him I will call the Hon Member for Sekondi --
Mr Dery 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I want to make a correction.
My Hon Brother on the other side of the House is saying that because we disagree with the 83 per cent of the people, that is why we are saying it is arrogance; he has not been part of this debate from
Mr Bagbin 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, definitely,
the Parliament of Ghana is not supreme; it is not a sovereign Parliament. We are subject to the Constitution, that is clear but that does not mean an individual Member of Parliament can disagree with this thing -- [Interruptions.] You cannot refer to an arrogance of power when an individual is disagreeing with a position of a society. That is what I am referring to.
If it is the whole of this House, for example, if that has been the decision of the people and at the end of the day, we reject it, that is, the House rejects that position, it could be termed as arrogance of power. But an individual disagreeing with it, does not mean arrogance of power.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 12:15 p.m.
On a point
of order. Mr Speaker, I believe that you are in the Chair and you grant us liberties. But it seems to me as if points of arguments are being held out as points of order and really disturbing the trend of this debate.
We may disagree; when it comes to your turn and you happen to catch the Speaker's eye, you make your statement in disagreement. The fact that we do not agree, does not mean that somebody is on a point of order - somebody said something is arrogance of power, and you do not think it is arrogance of power, that is your view. You have the right to express it at a time when you are recognised by Mr

Speaker. But a point of order where people speak for ten minutes, fifteen minutes, Mr Speaker, I am sorry.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:15 p.m.
Hon
Member for Sekondi, you are absolutely correct. But unless the person makes the statement, you would not know what the person wants to say. Especially so, after the Hon Member for Asawase (Alhaji Mohammed-Mubarak Muntaka) spoke, I was going to make a statement in the lines that you have indicated, then I saw the Hon Deputy Minority Leader. And he is the Deputy Minority Leader, he is not just an ordinary Member of this House and I have to listen to him. And once I listen to him, I must balance the equation and that is what happened.
Mr Bagbin 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if the
statement is not in reference to an article of the Constitution -- he is trying to support that statement by referring to an article of the Constitution. A person can raise a point of order and say that “you are misleading”, that is not a point of argument. You are misleading Ghanaians because if they allow you to go uncontested, people would believe that the correct interpretation of that article is what the person has said. So, that is not a point of argument.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:15 p.m.
Mr
Mr Bagbin 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, on a point
of order. Mr Speaker, I think that we need to cure the Hon Minority Leader of this word “inject”.[Laughter.] I do not know whether that is all his vocabulary. It is not a parliamentary word. [Laughter.] We
all know about “injection”; the intrusion painfully into something; “intrusion”, “inject”, so he cannot - [Interruptions] -- so he cannot be talking about people injecting themselves into debate. That is unparliamentary and I think he should have to withdraw that.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:15 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, we all consider that to be in the lighter vein, so I will disregard that.
Mr Speaker, I think we need to emphasise that the 83 per cent does not even refer to the people at the various fora. It is the sample from the questionnaire that was administered, and they arrived at that conclusion that 83 per cent of the people that they consulted came out with that proposal.
Mr Speaker, the wrongful allocation to the National Oil Company made by the Hon Minister for Finance and Economic Planning even before Parliament attends to this Budget, is worrisome. The quantum of the proposed allocation is something that we should all be worried about. In my view, it may not be prudent management of petroleum resources as provided for under paragraph 5 of the memorandum. Mr Speaker, I believe that contradicts it.
But Mr Speaker, some of the amendments that are being proffered by the Committee, piloted by the Hon Chairman and also the threats of some amendments proposed by my Brother and Friend, the Member for Nabdam (Mr Moses Asaga) really go to the core of the Bill. Mr Speaker, we are told that an explanatory memorandum of a Bill and if I may read, Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, as captured by article106 (2) (a). It provides as follows:
“it is accompanied by an explanatory memorandum setting out in detail the policy and principles of the
bill, the defects of the existing law, the remedies proposed to deal with those defects and the necessity for its introduction.”
Mr Speaker, in my view, if a person proffers an amendment to a Bill which goes to the core, the policy, the principle underpinning a Bill, Mr Speaker, I believe that it could not be entertained. Mr Speaker, my Colleague, the Hon Member for Asawase is shouting to himself “No! No!” I would advise him to advert his mind to our own rules of procedures and I will quote for him Order 128 (4) (a). It says that if anybody suggests any amemdment --
Mr Speaker, first of all, Order 128 (4) (a) 12:15 p.m.
“they must be relevant to the subject- matter of the Bill ….”
Mr Speaker, with your permission, I quote 128 (4) (b) 12:15 p.m.
“they must not be inconsistent . . .”
And that really goes to the core, the policy, the principle underpinning the Bill. Mr Speaker, that is it -- and to the subject- matter of the clause to which they relate.
Mr Speaker, in my view, if anybody makes a submission to amend a Bill that goes to the core, to the kernel of it -- to the extent that it will be inconsistent with the policy underpinning it, Mr Speaker, it would be outrageously inconsistent with the memorandum.

Mr Speaker, the final thing that I may want to address myself to, relates to the percentage allocation of oil revenue --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
Hon Minority Leader, how long do you intend to go? I have taken into account the interventions and all sort of things, but you have been on your feet for a while now.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:25 p.m.
I agree. Mr Speaker, if the Chair will assure me that it will quarantine the interventions, the likes of Hon Asaga and Hon Muntaka, I will be --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
I will give you the necessary protection.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was alluding to the allocation of some percentage of the oil revenue to the Western Region. Mr Speaker, the Chiefs have come to present a petition to us, and yesterday I heard that we were being castigated, that we have thrown their petition out.
I thought that was a bit unfortunate because this Parliament has not done so. We are still in the process of considering it.
Mr Speaker, with respect to you, you were quoted as having assured that if there were any problems, we would get back to the chiefs and that we had not done so but only jettisoned their petition. Mr Speaker, I believe we may have to assure that that is not what has been done yet by Parliament.
Mr Speaker, I believe we all recognize the deficiency of infrastructure in the Western Region. Roads, hospitals, clinics, potable water delivery, housing, educational facilities and so on. Mr Speaker, we are also not oblivious of the fact that the Western Region today, more or less, is the backbone of the country. Cocoa production used to be centred in the Ashanti, Eastern and Volta Region; today, cocoa production has migrated to the Western Region. Mr Speaker, rubber, the bulk of it for this country is produced from

the Western Region. Coffee production -- timber has also migrated from Brong Ahafo, Ashanti, Eastern Region to the Western Region.

Mr Speaker, we know of manganese, we know of bauxite and now oil, palm oil. Mr Speaker, we cannot discount this, given the paucity of developments in the Western Region, it is imperative that Government has a second look at Western Region and construct some architecture to resurrect Western Region.

Mr Speaker, if we do so, we can only stimulate further development in the Western Region to support the economy and that should be the prime consideration.

As regards the 10 per cent, Mr Speaker, that is a matter of policy that should be determined even though, clearly, if we are not careful, we may end up opening some pandora boxes. We need to negotiate it very carefully. But Mr Speaker, one is also not unmindful of maybe, promises along the line.

Today, on my way to this House, I was

told, and I heard on air, that the Office of the Vice-President had denied that he ever made a promise to the Western Region, tying 10 per cent of the oil revenue for their development. Just this morning, I heard, and I thought it was a bit strange because the promise on which the chiefs premised their request was made in September, 2008 and it was captured by The Ghanaian Times.

Mr Speaker, on August 31, the Vice- President gave a very valid admonition to politicians. He said it was time for politicians to avoid empty promises; Vice- President John Mahama, that was August 31. Afflicted by whatever spirit, just two days after, he went to the Western Region and promised that they were going to use 10 per cent of oil resources generated from the Western Region to support them, and
Mr Bagbin 12:25 p.m.
On a point of order. Mr Speaker, the Hon Minority Leader is referring to a publication. That is a publication; the publication is alleging that he said -- [Interruptions.]
Please, the report is an allegation; the Hon Minority Leader just stated that the Vice-President said he never said that but he is now quoting this to say that he said that. And I am saying that, this is what is reported by the paper as against the Vice-President himself saying he did not say that. That is what the Minority Leader said. He said he heard, the same media reporting, not the newspaper, but another source of media reporting that the Hon Vice- President said that he did not say that and that was reported today.
Now, he is referring to an earlier publication to support the statement that he said that. Even what he referred to first, he said that “he admonished politicians” -- [Interruptions] -- to give vague promises and now you are going to it trying to create what? That he actually said it, and I am saying, no, these are media publications, so he cannot use that and say that he actually said it. That is all that I am saying.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
Hon Minister, I think once the Hon Minority Leader has disclosed his source, alleging, it may be true, it may not be true but he has disclosed the source of his publication.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this morning, on my way to the House, some radio stations were insisting that if the Vice-President is saying that he did not say what he said, they would play his voice.
Meanwhile, the publication this morning, the news item this morning was to the effect that, yes, he made such
a promise but he did not mention 10 per cent, he said a percentage. That is what the news item said this morning.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister for Communications (Mr Haruna Iddrisu) is a Member of Parliament, he has confirmed on TV that he was with him when that came out -- so who is misleading who? In any event, Mr Speaker, it is not only The Ghanaian Times, The Daily Graphic reported, and myJoyonline.com reported from three different people who captured the event.
Mr Speaker, the renowned writer from Nigeria, Chinua Achebe has written in things fall apart --
“those who bring ant-infested faggots into their houses should not complain when lizards begin to pay them visits.”
Mr Bagbin 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think my Hon Colleague has really misunderstood my submission. I was drawing his attention to the fact that all the reports he is referring to, are reports from other sources. Even what he heard on radio today is from a media source, what he is reading is a media source. That cannot be strong evidence to say that he said it. My Hon Colleague said he was going to play his voice. I am being told that it has already been played on Joy FM. Those are things that are going round.
Now, this quotation from Chinua Achebe's Things Fall Apart, I read literature and I read Things Fall Apart and other novels including Ant Hill of the Savannah. If I quote things that apply to him, he would stop this kind of verbose submission. Why does he pull me into his debate? That completely
is unparliamentary. The quotation is unparliamentary and he has to withdraw it.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Hon
Minority Leader, he is saying that your quotation is unparliamentary.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not see what is unparliamentary about this. But Mr Speaker, since he also advertises his prowess in literature, Mr Speaker, when I was reading Iambic Pentameter, he was dealing with prose. [Laughter.] Mr Speaker, he has no space. He has no space at all. But Mr Speaker, more importantly --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Hon
Minority Leader, you should be winding up now. You have been on your feet well over an hour.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:35 p.m.
Thank you
very much.
Mr Speaker, he says he read Latin. At St. Peters' Secondary School, I read Latin, I read French, I read German. What modern language did he read? Mr Speaker, that is why I am telling him that he has no space.
But Mr Speaker, The Ghanaian Times is
an official publication. - [Interruptions.] Mr Speaker, our Standing Orders, most of them who do not know -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Hon Minority Leader, you have made a statement and you have quoted your source. That is the end but it is not like you are cooking a story. Once you have disclosed your source that is the source. The story may be true or not but there is a source.
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Chairman
of the Finance Committee, what point of order do you have?
Mr Avedzi 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have a
point of order because the Hon Minority Leader made a statement earlier, which was misleading; the quotation that he read from The Ghanaian Times. Mr Speaker, if you would permit me to read it, let me read it so that we can put it at the right perspective.
Mr Speaker, he said 12:35 p.m.
“The National Democratic Congress (NDC) running mate for the December Poll, John Dramani Mahama has commenced a campaign tour of the Western Region with a promise to use 10 per cent of the oil revenue to develop the region.”
Mr Speaker, the statement did not say
he would cede 10 per cent to the region. Mr Speaker, I am saying this because if we have ten regions in Ghana and we have oil revenue which is 100 per cent, if we should use this revenue equitably for the development of the country, it means that every region would have 10 per cent. So
if the Vice-President said that he would use 10 per cent of the oil revenue for the development of the Western Region, it is true, but that 10 per cent would not be ceded to the region, it would be used for the development of that region.
Mr Kyei -Mensah-Bonsu 12:35 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, I do not know the purpose of this intervention at all. The Office of the Vice- President is saying that he did not mention 10 per cent; now, he gets up, he says that it is true, it is true that he said so. Who is right and who is wrong? Mr Speaker, for his information, let me quote how Joyonline also captured it. Dated 31 August, 2008:
“The Vice-Presidential Candidate of the Nat ional Democrat ic Congress, John Dramani Mahama has promised that his Party would use 10 per cent of the oil revenue to develop the Western Region.”
Mr Speaker, so what are you saying? Mr Speaker, what is he saying and what is he flouting about? I cannot imagine the point of disagreement in this.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Hon
Minority Leader, kindly conclude.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker,
you see, for accountants, 10 per cent is not always 10 per cent - [Laughter.] That is why perhaps he does not understand what I am saying. That is his problem - [Laughter.]
Mr Speaker, to wind up, I believe
that we should as a House peruse this Bill critically and be very circumspect and cautious in trying to challenge the positions as contained in the Bill because they are a product of extensive consultations. The product of advice from
specialists and experts who are advising Ghana, is not to thread certain known paths, they would lead us to destruction.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Majority Leader (Mr Cletus A.
Avoka): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this very important debate on the Petroleum Revenue Management Bill. Mr Speaker, before I start my key contribution, permit me to make the following preliminary observations.
One, to commend Government through the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning for embarking on a very extensive countrywide consultations in respect of this Bill.
Two, to thank Hon Members of the joint Committee on Finance and Economic Planning and Mines and Energy for the hard-work and industry they exhibited in preparing this Report for this august House to debate.
I would like to also commend the chiefs and people of the Western Region and particularly their chiefs for adopting a very civil approach by presenting a petition on this matter to this august House to take their interests into consideration. I want to also thank Hon Colleagues who for the past two days have found it very expedient and necessary to debate this Bill on bipartisan lines.
Mr Speaker, this House is not a rubber stamp Parliament. Mr Speaker, I have been here during the first three terms of this Parliament - 1993, 1997 and 2001 and I am back again.
Mr Speaker, this is the first time that in my four terms in this august House, I am hearing that where a Bill is brought by the Executive or by the Presidency, Members who belong to that group, the Executive, are in fact, bound or duty bound to agree in toto to the provisions of the Bill. This is the first time I am hearing
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think the pivot of the submissions made by Hon Colleagues who had spoken earlier is clear to everybody. I do not know anybody saying what the Hon Majority Leader had said. That nobody can submit any amendment to any proposal from the Executive. Mr Speaker, I am surprised at that. And if the Hon Majority Leader can provide further and better particulars about people who said so, let him come through that.
Mr Avoka 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, he himself, the Hon Minority Leader - and let me, without quoting him, explain some portion of his contribution here.
He quoted the Standing Orders and said that where the Bill is coming from the Executive, the Hon Member should fall in line - [Interruption] - Yes, he quoted the Standing Orders.
Mr Speaker, again, he said that there was a countrywide consultation on this matter. He said he should - [Interruption.] Let me land and he can respond. He said that there was a countrywide - [Interruption.]
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:35 p.m.
On a point of order. Mr Speaker, let me stop him in his
tracks before he inflicts further damage on himself - [Laughter.] I never said what he has said. I never said so. If he was listening to me, I never said so.
Mr Speaker, he is saying that he heard it and I am surprised; then he has a problem. He has a problem with his hearing, if, indeed, he is insisting that he heard me say it. I have never said so. If he insists, then he has a problem with his hearing, with respect anyway, not meant for anything.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Hon Members, while I was on the seat, the issue that cropped up was whether an Hon Minister from the Executive side can take a position different from the Bill which comes from the same Government. The person who was on the floor said he was speaking as an Hon Member of Parliament.
The second one has to do with the Standing Orders quoted by the Hon Minority Leader where he says that the amendment should not be inconsistent with the provisions of the Bill.
Mr Avoka 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I also heard him. He quoted the Constitution extensively and then said that the sovereign power is with the people. What does that mean? Are we saying that this body does not have the authority and the power to make legislation? Are we saying that it is part of the practice and convention and the laws of this country that when they go round and make stakeholder consultations and bring a Bill to Parliament, therefore, we are bound by it? This is the first time I am hearing that.
Mr Speaker, we do not want to belabour the point. Indeed, if you go to my constituency and several constituencies now and ask them, they will tell you that nobody came to ask them about the Petroleum Revenue Management Bill.
Mr Avoka 12:35 p.m.


How can you say that we are lesser Ghanaians, so other people are superior Ghanaians, therefore, while they have decided (83 per cent), we are bound by it and we have no right to make amendments or think differently? I regret on those lines of submission.

Mr Speaker, having made these preliminary observations, let me say that I would want to allude to some of the clauses that are of controversial in nature. As for those that have no controversy and the rest of them, I think that we should not belabour the point in respect of them.

Mr Speaker, clause 5, that is the “Prohibited use of Petroleum Account” which has gained grounds in this House. We have been debating clause 5 for the past three days.

In my view, I submit that as a sovereign country and as a Government that has the mandate of the people to run the affairs of this country and as a Government that has to deliver within its mandate, we should not make laws that tie the hands of the Executive. In our collective wisdom, in the wisdom of this august House, if we think that that provision does not inure to the benefit of the generality of Ghanaians, we have no difficulty in amending it.

For example, if we were to tie the hands of the first President of the Republic of Ghana, the late Dr Kwame Nkrumah of blessed memory, that he should not use certain revenues in Ghana to attract loans -- Kwame Nkrumah took collateral loans and was able to develop Akosombo Dam which we now benefit from today. We took loans to build Tema Harbour and we

took loans to be able to build the Tema Motorway.
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Hon Member for Sekondi, do you have a point of order?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am on a point of order. I am on a point of order with great reluctance because the Hon Leader of the House is speaking, and he seems to be misleading the House. Nobody has said that we should tie the hands of the Executive from taking loans.
He is referring to Kwame Nkrumah, if we had tied his hands, would he had taken loans? Nobody has said that the Government should not take loans and to that extent, he is misleading the House.
Mr Avoka 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am not misleading the House. I am just giving an example to the petroleum revenue that we are talking about; I am making reference to that, that if we tie the hands of the Executive in using that loan then these are the challenges that we are going to have.
Mr Speaker, maybe, where I can understand the fears and anxiety, and think we can allay such fears is that,
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 12:35 p.m.
On a point of order. Mr Speaker, no Hon Member has said that we should not take loans. No Hon Member has said we have apprehensions - It is the Government that has brought a Bill before this House and this is what the Government says it wants. No Hon Member has said anything to the contrary. It is rather some Hon Members who proposed that there should be an amendment; there was no consensus. It has been brought before the House. We are not even debating the Bill, clause by clause. So, the Hon Leader should please put all these things in the context.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, the Hon Member for Sekondi is saying that they are supporting the provisions of the Bill as brought by Government.
Mr Avoka 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speake r, t he Committee's Report says that there was no consensus on the matter, and I am trying to say that there ought to be a consensus - That is what I am saying. [Interruption.]
Mr Osei-Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
On a point of order. Mr Speaker, I want the Hon Leader to be clear. Is Government reneging on what is in the Bill which they have brought before this House? Does he support it or he supports a change in that? He should tell us so that we are clear in our minds
to propose amendments if he so wishes.
Mr Enoch T. Mensah 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I want to tell Hon Osei-Prempeh that the Hon Leader is an Hon Member of Parliament and not Government; he is not in Government. He is the Hon Leader of the House and an Hon Member of Parliament. So, that question cannot be directed at him.
Mr Avoka 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I am an independent Hon Member of this House. I have an independent mind. [Some Hon Members: Bye-elections!] - [Interruption.] Yes. So --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, proceed.
An Hon Member 12:55 p.m.
Independent- minded?
Mr Avoka 12:55 p.m.
Yes. Mr Speaker, I am independent- minded. I have independent ideas -[Uproar.]
Mr Speaker, like I was trying to say - [Interruption] - I have said nothing and he is getting up, why? Did he see me get up anytime when he was talking? Did he see me get up? [Interruption.]
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:55 p.m.
On a point of order. Mr Speaker, these threats from the Hon Majority Leader will do nobody any harm. He said that when I was speaking, I did not see him get up. I saw him get up except that he did not talk.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Majority Leader is in a very unique position. He doubles up as the Leader of Government Business. He is the Leader of Government Business in this House and he is supposed to pilot Government business. Government has brought this Bill; he should declare his
position. What is his position on the Government proposals? -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
Hon Members, yesterday I recalled the popular saying of the great J. H. Mensah. He says that --
“Fools do not change their minds but wise people sometimes change their minds.”
Hon Majority Leader, continue.
Mr Avoka 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my reference to Government taking loans is with regard to the petroleum revenue that we are talking about and not any other loan facility and that is all.
Mr Speaker, with regard to the Heritage Fund and also the Stabilisation Fund, in principle, nobody disagrees with them. I think that it is useful to have something for the rainy day.
But I would want to support the submission by the Hon Member for Wenchi, Hon Prof. Gyan-Baffour yesterday, when he said among other things that he thinks that as we have so many socio-economic challenges, infrastructural challenges in the country, it is prudent for us, for the first five years, to use the total revenue that we get from the petroleum to be able to develop this country.
Then, after five years, we can then set aside these funds for stabilisation and for heritage. But from the very word “go”, to go and put this money somewhere else when we are so starved of resources, we are so starved as to be unable to develop this country and hoping that future generations can come and use it to develop the country, I think that we are putting the cart before the horse. So, I want to urge Hon Colleagues that as far as the Heritage and Stabilisation Funds are concerned, we can provide them in the law but indicate that they take effect after five years after the implementation of this one. [Some

Hon Members: No!] It is my humble suggestion.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of the oversight responsibility -- the Public Interest and Accountability Committee -- there are many more questions on that Committee than there are answers.

One, the very composition of the Committee is worrisome, and with your kind permission, let me draw my Hon Colleagues' attention to the type of Ghanaians who are supposed to serve on that Committee.

Clause 56, page 24 of the Bill, Mr Speaker, it is supposed to compose of

“(a) a member to represent independent pol icy research th ink- tanks nominated by the think-tanks.”

At the moment, as a country, do we have a list? Do we have a certified and accredited list of this group? We do not.

Secondly,

“(b) a member to represent civil-society organisations and community-based organisations nominated by civil society.”

Who are those who constitute this civil society? We are part of civil society. Is an amorphous group; it is an undetermined group as of now.

Mr Speaker, I want to add something. I am not against women but if you look at clause (c) (iii), “Association of Queen mothers” - The fact is that some parts of this country do not have queen mothers and Ghana is a unitary country; we are not a federal State. And the Constitution abhors discrimination against regions or against various groups of people.

So, if you say “Association of Queen mothers”, when it does not take everybody on board, it is questionable; it is worrisome. These are very difficult areas to be able to accept easily. Even if they were to say that one or two women of proven ability nominated to serve on the Committee, we can understand. But if you
Prof. Christopher Ameyaw-Akumfi 12:55 p.m.
On a point of order. Mr Speaker, I am talking on behalf of Queen mothers - [Uproar.]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
Hon Members, order! Let us listen to the Hon Member on his feet.
Prof. Christopher Ameyaw-Akumfi 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think my Hon Leader's concern should be whether or not there is an “Association of Queen mothers” and if, indeed, there is, and it has been put down that a representative of that group should be on this Committee, so be it. But this whole question of, “Some areas do not have Queen mothers” --
Mr Speaker, indeed, in some areas of Ghana, women have become traditional rulers. There are women occupying positions normally held by men. So, the question should be whether we have the association. His concern is rather parochial, I must say. Let us find out whether there is an association. There was a basis for getting a representation from the Queen mothers.
Mr Avoka 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am surprised that a group that is not nationally-based - [Interruption] - Yes, that is a fact. It is a fact that you cannot run away from. We have the National House of Chiefs, nobody disputes that. Why did I not comment on that, because it is also on the Bill? There is a National House of Chiefs, nobody disputes that because it represents
the entirety of the country.
So, if you think that this submission is rather narrow-minded, people advocating - I am not against it but I am saying that we could have put there “two or even three or five women of proven ability to serve on the Committee” without saying that “Association of Queen Mothers”. This is what I am talking about -- [Interruption] -- of national character. The fact that they have and others do not have, that means, they should be bound by their interest. They are rather parochial -- [Interruption.]
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
Do you still have a point of order?
Prof. Ameyaw-Akumfi 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am still making a frantic attempt to correct my Hon Leader. I think the House has to find out whether or not there is an association and definition - [Interruption] - and those are going to be women obviously. But I think that is what we have to find out. This struggle to take them out, I think, is rather unfortunate. Let us find out that there is space for us -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
You know that point being made -
Prof. Christoper Ameyaw-Akumfi 1:05 p.m.
Through amendments that can be made but let us find out first.
Mr Avoka 1:05 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the other problem I have with the Committee is that in this country, - [Interruption] - Please. In this country, we happily and gleefully set up institutions and organizations but we abandon them and make sure that they do not function effectively. This is a challenge to us. We sometimes lack the will and commitment to ensure that
we resource committees or institutions to function; they are there, name them. My worry is whether setting this Committee up or putting this Committee in place is enough for it to solve the panacea; to solve the problem that we envisage.
Now, look at the functions that they are supposed to perform against the background of people who are going to be composed there. Clause 54, page 23,
“The objects of the Accountability Committee are --
(a ) to moni to r and eva lua te compliance with this Act . . .”
They are to monitor and evaluate compliance with this Act. What authority is that? [Interruption.] What platform? What authority? What mandate? They have to monitor the Act.
Now, Mr Speaker, paragraph (b) is even more worrisome --
(b) To provide a formal active voice in the use and management of petroleum revenues, by providing space and the platform for the public to debate. . .”

Mr Speaker, if you go to clause 55 -

“Functions of the Accountability Committee -

“To achieve its objects, the Accountability Committee shall --

(a) consult widely relating to the use of petroleum revenues and resources”
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:05 p.m.
On a point

of order. Mr Speaker, in order not to derogate from what the Hon Majority Leader is saying, I think that he may have to take on board what business we are doing at this juncture.

Mr Speaker, at this stage, we must be concerned with the principles; but it is like he is going clause by clause. So if he would concern himself with -- I agree with the issues that he is bringing up but he must be talking in generalities. He does not have to be going clause, by clause otherwise, we will be defeating what stage we are at.

Mr Speaker, Standing Order 127, clearly, should suggest to him what he should be doing at this stage.
Mr Avoka 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I agree that we are debating on the principles. But sometimes you have to make reference to the Bill to support the principles that you are talking about. That is what I am doing. Otherwise, you will be debating in abstract. Some Hon Members may not have the law before them and may not appreciate the argument. That is why I occasionally draw our attention to some provisions. It is just like how he was quoting the Constitution and the rest of them and the Standing Orders. These are all documents that are relevant for us to refer when we are making a submission.
Mr Speaker, my concern is that, we should not put an office in place that would be another waste pipe, with due respect. They are going to have allowances, we are going to create an office for them, they are going to be provided with vehicles and all types of things - a whole secretariat, another burden on the petroleum revenue; another white elephant on the petroleum revenue.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:05 p.m.
On a point of order. Mr Speaker, the umbrella is closer to the Hon Majority Leader than the elephant. So he should be citing another perforated umbrella, not another white elephant - [Laughter.]
Mr Avoka 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I will refer to a blue elephant this time.
Mr Speaker, I think that that is an area that we may have to look critically at when we are at the Consideration Stage.
Now, Mr Speaker, let me talk about the very sensitive issue of the Western Region House of Chiefs' petition. I had earlier, in my introductory remarks, commended the chiefs for the matured manner in which they are handling this matter.
Mr Speaker, we are all aware about the huge contribution of the Western Region to the economic development of this country; nobody doubts that one. So any other thing that we as a country, as a Government can do to support development in the Western Region, we should not stop doing.
The question is whether ceding ten per cent of the revenue from the petrol is the solution to the issue. The issue is not about development. We agree that they need development. But the issue is whether - [Interruption.] No.
Please, Mr Speaker, my concern is whether against the backdrop of what we have in the country, it is essential for us to cede ten per cent of the revenue to the region. That is a grey area that we have been talking about.
Mr Speaker, reference was made to Savanah Accelerated Development Authority (SADA) and Central Region Development Commission (CEDECOM) during the course of this debate. Let me explain away that SADA and CEDECOM were not put in place as a result of the
discovery of a natural resource in those parts of the country - in the North or in the Central Region. SADA and CEDECOM were put in place because of our realization that they needed another effort to be able to develop.
In this respect, if we have to put in place a similar structure or institution in the Western Region to be able to channel or harness resources to develop them, I have no objection. If you look at the budgetary allocation and extras that we have made to these bodies, it is not the same.
Mr Speaker, as the Hon Minister for Roads and Highways spoke the other day and other Hon Members' interventions, Government is committed to developing the Western Region. Indeed, our commitment for the 2011 Budget extra and the fact that the President went to China and was able to attract investment - Much of the investment is going to address the developmental needs of the Western Region.
So, I want to use this forum to assure our counterparts, whether in this august House or outside, particularly those from the Western Region, that Government is doing everything possible to address those needs in terms of roads and in terms of all types of infrastructure. I think that as a country, we must be seen to be moving together rather than dividing our ranks. We are a unitary country. Yes, we would develop the Western Region and we are committed to doing that but the issue is whether we should cede ten per cent to that region.
Mr Speaker, some of my Hon Colleagues have made reference to an alleged promise made by His Excellency the Vice-President during the campaign. They are importing that to say in view of what the Vice-President said during the campaign of 2008, therefore, we are bound by it. This is a House that is passing laws. Somebody made a campaign talk and they
say that - a statement made at the political rally must be obligatory on the part of this House, I do not see how that is possible.
I am saying that if you go round campaigning or talking, making statements outside this forum, whether they are promises or whatever, and they are made outside this forum, that does not bind this House; it is not an obligation on this House. We have to look at it, if we say, yes, the promise was indeed, made.

If we admit that the promise was made, let us look at it dispassionately and find out whether it is reasonable under the circumstances or not. If the promise was not made and as I have indicated, there is the need to address the developmental needs of the Western Region, let us to look at it holistically. But to argue and to make reference to an alleged statement made by the Vice-President and therefore, we are bound by it, I disagree. I do not subscribe to that.

The Vice-President is not the President of the country. The Vice-President did not pass a law. It is not a constitutional provision and therefore, it is not binding on us. He has the right to talk his mind and we have the right to make the laws here. So where does it become obligatory? When did campaign rally discussions or statements become part of the law of this country that they say we must take note and we must respect them? I disagree.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by appealing to Hon Colleagues that for the past three days, we have been debating this Bill and I have been very, very impressed with the informed debate that has gone on the floor of this august House. We should

not let passion over-ride the sensibilities of Hon Members of this august House and, indeed, the country.

We should make a law that stands the test of time. We should be seen to be passing a Petroleum Revenue Management Law that stands the test of time. We should not make a law that in the next year or two, we will call for an amendment like we have done in the past.

It is against this background that I want to appeal to every Hon Member to contribute effectively to the passage of this Bill into law and to be passionate and bipartisan on this matter because the petroleum revenue is intended to develop the generality of the people of this country and not just one particular area.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Hon
Terkpeh, do you want to wind up?
Mr Terkpeh 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, yes.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Very well.
Mr Seth Terkpeh 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we have come a long way since we thought of petroleum law in omnibus terms and His Excellency and Cabinet decided to separate the revenue component from the exploration and production parts of the law.
Mr Speaker, I have participated in this
process and I wish to state on behalf of the Hon Minister that we do value every contribution that was made on the Bill. In fact, it is to the credit of the Committee and the House that out of over 60 clauses, the areas where there were differences, if I may put it that way, were just about four or five clauses.
Mr Speaker, with your kind permission,
may I mention a couple of issues that have
Mr Seth Terkpeh 1:25 p.m.
come up. If we take the totality of the Memorandum as has been cited, clause 5 and other portions, particularly clause 43 and the second Schedule, which specify the responsibilities of the Central Bank, it is clear what is meant by “an asset”. The emphasis on clause 5 is on the assets of the Petroleum Account.
In this regard, if I may add, that the
interpretation clause defines the Petroleum Account as a transitory account and therefore, it is clear that in the discussions on the uses of the three accounts or funds, that is, the Stabilisation Fund, the Heritage Fund and the amount that goes into the Budget, any discussions in terms of usage, lending and utilization must refer to the context in which these are used.
As has been stated, the position of Government is clear that funds, particularly the funds flowing into the Budget, should not constrain Government from applying prudential requirements including the debt sustainability analysis, to go into the market, particularly, as we have become a middle-income country, to develop the country.
I paid particular attention to the
interventions, particularly, the Nigerian experience, and the emphasis was on that country's short-term borrowing. Mr Speaker, precisely, the point about issuing guarantees are that you would want to borrow long-term into the future so that you will be able to develop the country fast enough and establish, as has been the experience of Dubai and other places, sovereign wealth fund against which you will be able to borrow and stabilize your currency so that the market will have confidence in what you do.
Indeed, we do appreciate the fact that the global crisis has pointed to some difficulties that would arise from this.
Mr Speaker, may I also address the
issue why, probably, the law has not been passed, and on what basis certain provisions have been included in the Budget? The Constitution as well as the Financial Administration Act enjoins the Minister for Finance and Economic Planning to include revenues from all sources that would accrue to the Government in preparing the Budget. It is in this context that considering that the Bill is in the House, the terms of those Bills were used as a guide in preparing the Budget.
Mr Speaker, I can assure the House
on behalf of the Hon Minister that if for any reason the Bill passed by the House is different from any assumptions that are made in the preparation of the Budget, we would promptly come to this House with a supplementary budget to make the appropriate adjustments as required by the Financial Administration Act and the Financial Administration Regulation.
Therefore, I would like to appeal to Hon Members that so long as this responsibility has to be discharged, we have taken the precaution of using what is before the House.
Secondly, Mr Speaker, I must also state that the sources of petroleum revenues are mostly corporate. The royalties are to be paid by corporations, the corporate income tax by corporations. Indeed, the courage and participatory interest are the outcome of joint ventures entered into by Ghana National Petroleum Corporation (GNPC) and, therefore, with or without a Bill or a law, the Ghana Revenue Authority (GRA) would be obliged to discharge its responsibilities as far as the levying of taxes are concerned.
We appreciate, therefore, the decision to facilitate the passage of this law in particular, because without belittling
the importance of the other Bill and the Commission, there will be commercial operations; there will be accounts prepared and there will be flows out of the oil operations.
I have taken note of your ruling that work should be expedited in order that the two Bills can move in tandem.
Mr Speaker, my other point is to state that there have been several contributions particularly with respect to article 22 of the Constitution, which your Committee has decided to prune down when it comes to the Consideration Stage, as it would be presented. It has never been the intention of the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning or Cabinet to implement all the sectors that are specified in that clause at the same time. They are only meant to be indicative and a guide, and more particularly, in the absence of a medium- term plan.

Mr Speaker, we have participated in pruning it down, but the point I wish to make, particularly also with respect to how the petroleum revenues should be utilized is that, this Bill has a specific purpose and it cannot be a substitute for an effective medium-term plan, neither can it be a substitute for an effective budget and financial accounting practice.

As I stated at the committee level, we have experienced with earmarking and yet still we have run some of those funds into huge arrears. It is in this regard that the Ministry, and in response to one of my senior colleagues in the accounting profession, that I wish to state that the Budget points to the implementation of the Ghana Integrated Financial Management Information System (GIFMIS) and the formulation of a new chart of accounts and functional classification to improve public sector accounting.

Finally, Mr Speaker, may I mention in

the context of investments that the funds that flow into the Budget are a particular source, but if you take the diversification and the precaution that we should be mindful of investment in agriculture and other sectors, then we must look at the totality of investments to include, as my Hon Colleague, Deputy Minister stated a couple of days ago, other activities like the processing, laying of pipelines and other activities that will inure to the country.

Mr Speaker, on this note, may I, on behalf of the Minister for Finance and Economic Planning, thank you and Hon Members for the honour of participating in the deliberations both at Committee and in the House.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon
Members, that brings us to the end of the debate.
Question put and Motion agreed to.
The Petroleum Revenue Management Bill, 2010 was accordingly read a Second time.
Mr Cletus A. Avoka 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that we will now prepare ourselves for the winnowing of the amendments that have been filed. As I indicated yesterday, there are almost one hundred amendments filed by the Committee itself and I understand that some other Hon Colleagues have filed some additional amendments.
Mr Speaker, I want to invite the Committee members and a few of us who are in the Winnowing Committee to meet at 3.00p.m. in one of the committee rooms up, so that we can look at some of the amendments filed by the Hon Committee Chairman so that we will be able to start the Consideration Stage tomorrow.
Mr Speaker, against that background and the fact that we have a Closed Sitting after this, subject to your indulgence, I beg
Mr Cletus A. Avoka 1:25 p.m.


to move, that the House now adjourns until tomorrow at l0.00 o'clock in the forenoon.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:25 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, before seconding the Motion by the Hon Majority Leader, I just noticed that the amendments from the Committee have not all been captured on the Order Paper and I do not know why.
Besides, because the other proposals have not been submitted, I thought they were going to be submitted, so that we consider all of them together. Now that they are not here, if you proceed on the lines of that of the Committee, what if tomorrow somebody files an amendment? If we had had the presence of mind, maybe, an addendum paper capturing all the amendments, would have done us a world of good. Where we are now, I do not even know how we are going to proceed. It is a difficult situation.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
I have
been informed that they are working on those amendments. So, I am sure that at the winnowing, they will bring those amendments. That was the information I received from the Table Office this morning, that they have to find a way of capturing them in a technical form and I have been informed that they are working on those amendments.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:25 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, it is possible then, I may propose that those others from the other Hon Members be so captured on that form to be distributed to, at least, those of them who will be at the winnowing so that they can speak to the same issues.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
I agree
with you.
Mr Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:25 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, on that note, I will want to second the Motion by the Hon Majority
Leader. Question put and Motion agreed to.
ADJOURNMENT 1:25 p.m.