Debates of 3 Mar 2016

MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr Benard Ahiafor (NDC -- AkatsiSouth) 12:14 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for theopportunity to contribute to the debateon the floor, that this Honuorable Housethanks His Excellency the President of theRepublic of Ghana for the Message onthe State of the Nation. Mr Speaker, I wish to sincerely thankthe President for his delivery andproviding empirical evidence to supporthis assertion. Indeed, the message wasevidence-based.
Mr Speaker, reading through someprevious messages on the State of theNation, particularly the years 2004 and2007 State of the Nation Addressesdelivered by former President JohnAgyekum Kufuor, one could see that themajor problem that transcends them is inthe energy sector.
Mr Speaker, in the year 2004,specifically in the State of the NationAddress with particular reference to page8, to quote, former President Kufuor hadthis to say:
“Mr Speaker, let me now addressissues in the energy sector whichremains one of the most crucial toour development efforts.” Mr Speaker, I am quoting from page 8of the 2004 State of the Nation Address. Mr Speaker, undeniably, issues in theenergy sector remain one of the majorcrucial issues in this country calling forsolution --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:15 p.m.
HonMember, please, hold your breath. Yes, Hon Member, is it on a point oforder?
Mr Ignatius B. Awuah 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker,there has been a ruling that if one quotesfrom a sourced document, he lays thedocument. He is saying that he is quotingfrom the 2004 Message on the State ofthe Nation. Mr Speaker, he should be able to tableit so that at least we could all see that -- Mr Speaker, there has been an earlierruling on that and I think we should stickto that.
Mr Ahiafor 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am referringto the 2004 State of the Nation Address.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:15 p.m.
Do youhave it here?
Mr Ahiafor 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we have acompilation of the State of the NationAddresses from 1993 to 2015. I amspecifically quoting from that of 2004, page8, paragraph 16.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:15 p.m.
HonMember, for the avoidance of doubt, couldyou make it available to the Clerks-at-the-Table?
Mr Ahiafor 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would makeit available. It is a compiled volume thateverybody has.
Mr Daniel Botwe 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, therehas been a ruling by Mr Speaker just somefew minutes ago, when another documentwas also tendered. These are photo-copies. They are not the originaldocuments that were presented to theHouse. So, they cannot be accepted.Anybody could go and type somethingand say he has a copy of it. It cannot be accepted because therehas been an earlier ruling to that effect,when Hon Bedzrah wanted to tender a2008 document, which he purported wasthe State of the Nation Address of 2008.The Speaker ruled that it could not beaccepted.
Mr Agbesi 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with thegreatest respect, the document my HonColleague is holding, according to hisstatement, is a compilation of messagesthat have been delivered in this Houseand compiled by the Parliament of Ghana,
which are available for any Member ofParliament to acquire. He has acquired oneand that is where he is reading from. Mr Speaker, indeed, it is not aphotocopy made by him but a compilationmade by the Parliament of this countryfor Hon Members of Parliament. That inmy view, should be allowed to be used onthis floor. As far as photocopies areconcerned, you are aware, they are as goodas the original. Mr Speaker, if Parliament has taken thetrouble to put together copies ofStatements made in this House for our use,why can they not be accepted? I thinkthey are good enough.
Mr Awuah 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, Parliament'sofficial compilation is the Hansard. If hesaid he was quoting from the Hansard, Iwould not have had any problem with him.But just some few minutes ago, the Rt HonSpeaker ruled on this same subject and itwas that, we could make reference fromthe original document or from theHansard. Mr Speaker, this is a compilation doneby somebody and we cannot vouch forthat work. In any case, Mr Speaker hasalready ruled on it. So, I do not see whywe should litigate this issue again. Mr Speaker, this compilation is not anofficial work from Parliament.
Mr Frederick Opare-Ansah 12:15 p.m.
MrSpeaker, I think my Leaders have amplydemonstrated that, based on the ruling ofMr Speaker, we should not entertainimportations that people bring into thisChamber calling them compilations. Mr Speaker, any Tom, Dick and Harrycould go and sit somewhere, put togethersome documents and bring it to an Hon
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:15 p.m.
Order!Order! Hon Member, address the Chair. Baba Ahmed: Mr Speaker, having beenhere and being an active Member of thisHouse for three years, I know that the
practice in this House is that, while theyhad doubts, Mr Speaker has made theright ruling that he should lay thedocument. While he lays it, if he is wrongor lying to this House, there are processesthat he could go through. So, why do wewant to drag this debate back by alwaysclaiming that it is a compilation. Mr Speaker, I go by your directive thathe should lay the document and let usproceed.
Mr Ahmed Ibrahim 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, theseare not documents from outside. Theseare State of the Nation Addressespresented to this House, laid in this House,available in the Parliamentary ResearchDepartment and available in theParliamentary Library. Mr Speaker, the Hon Member has madereference to a page in a certain year thathas been officially laid in this House. Isthe Hon Member contesting that page?Ifso, we have official access to that page ofthat State of the Nation Address. If we arecontesting that, that may be a differentmatter. But to say that the Hon Membercannot make reference to the various Stateof the Nation Addresses presented to thisHouse and officially laid and in the bosomof the Rt Hon Speaker, it is a non-starter.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:15 p.m.
HonMembers, let us go about it this way: firstof all, could you make it available to theClerks-at-the-Table? When they look atit, they would be able to advise mewhether it is coming from a proper source.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 12:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, Ibelieve that we have original documentsin this House. For instance, in this debate, if HonMembers refer to the 2016 State of theNation Address, they hold it, they openit. It leaves no room for doubt. I am sure if
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 12:15 p.m.


the Hon Colleague had brought theoriginal document or was referring to theHansard of that day, there would not bemuch of a dispute. So, Mr Speaker, I think the only reasonMr Speaker ruled that we use the Hansardor the original copy was to ensure that,this debate goes on without muchcontroversy, so that the debate wouldflow. Mr Speaker, I would urge you to remindHon Members that, it is all well and good,but if they have the original, it would saveus time, because no one can contest that.That is all. It enables our business to moveahead.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
What Iwould like to find out for example, is that,somebody has indicated that the ResearchDepartment has carried out somecompilation of a sort. Let me find out fromthe Clerks-at-the-Table.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, Ican say for a fact that, an individual hasdecided to compile it. It is not a certifiedtrue copy or a photocopy of the original.I am saying that there may be nothingwrong with it, but to save us this time,probably, if we bring the original, it wouldbe helpful, that is all I am saying. Mr Speaker has already ruled on that.[Pause.]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
Hon DeputyMajority Leader, then I would come to theHon Member for Old Tafo.
Mr Agbesi 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe myHon Colleague, Papa Owusu-Ankomahknows that, photocopies are admissible.Two, in this era that we live, where wehave soft copies of documents; they are
equally acceptable. Three, in this House,where State of the Nation Addresses havebeen made and they are available in adepartment of the House, the ResearchDepartment, if the Research Departmentcan produce such statements oraddresses in a compiled form for ease ofusage by Hon Members of the House, Ithink that we must be allowed to moveforward. Mr Speaker, if copies of State of theNation Addresses are being used in thisHouse, being the statements that havealready been admitted in this House, andan Hon Member is using that statement,there is no doubt. Custody of thatstatement is not in doubt, because wecould say that, they are coming fromproper custody, so, the use of thosecopies, Mr Speaker, would not be in doubt. I invite Mr Speaker to rule in that --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
Yes, HonMember for Old Tafo?
Dr A. A. Osei 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we havealways been told that, the job of theLeadership of the House is to help theSpeakership to conduct affairs in theChamber. The Hon Deputy Majority Leader washere when the Speaker ruled specificallyon this matter. Mr Speaker, the Rt. Hon Speaker wasspecific. He said that if it is from theHansard or the original State of theNation Address, there is no problem withthat. So, the Hon Member from Ho Westwas not allowed to tender in thatdocument this morning. My question is, if the Speaker has ruledand the Hon Deputy Majority Leader isasking us to overrule the Speaker, whereare we heading?
Mr Speaker, this is a very bad practice.It should never happen. There has been aruling, and I think the Clerks should adviseyou appropriately so that we move on.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
HonMember, please, resume your seat. While we were debating, I asked theClerks-at-the-Table to verify. I have seenwhat he is holding. It is a photocopycompilation of various State of the NationAddresses, but I asked them to cross-check from the Research Department. The Research Department informs methrough the Clerks-at-the-Table that theyhave not authorised any such thing.Possibly, it is a member of staff who isdoing it and selling it, so, we cannot acceptit on that basis. So, Hon Member, you can make yourpresentation devoid of reference to thisparticular document. As Mr Speaker ruled earlier, if youhave the Hansard for that day or theoriginal document, we should not haveany problem. But since the ResearchDepartment denies any authorship of thatdocument, I cannot sit here and accept it.
Alhaji Inusah A. B. Fuseini 12:25 p.m.
MrSpeaker had ruled on this matter, and Ithink the matter should rest, so that ifanybody would like to refer to the pastState of the Nation Addresses, they mustendeavour to procure the original thatwas laid in this House.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
Or theHansard.
Alhaji Fuseini 12:25 p.m.
Or the Hansard.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
Thank youvery much.
Mr Ayariga 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, myunderstanding of your ruling is that, aperson could only make reference to eitherthe Hansard or the original State of theNation Address that was laid here. Mr Speaker, a person can only haveaccess to a photocopy of the original Stateof the Nation Address that was laid here,because if today, I want the State of theNation Address that was laid here 10years ago and I go to the library and theyhave just one or two copies, they cannotgive me the original. They would have tomake a copy of that one for me. If I come to the floor of the House andI am making reference to a photocopy ofthe one that has been given to me by theResearch Department, how does thatdetract from the fact that, I am actuallymaking reference to the State of theNation Address?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
HonMember, I believe there is a way ofgetting round that problem. You could apply officially to say thelibrary. Write officially and they couldfurnish you with a certified true copy fromcustody. Or, you could go to theInformation Services Department and I amsure they would have copies available. So, Hon Member, please continue, butbecause of what has transpired, we wouldgive you five more minutes.
Mr Ahiafor 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am verygrateful. Mr Speaker, it is now clear that my HonColleagues are running away from theirown shadow-- Alhaji Fuseini -- rose--
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
HonMinister, are you still up? Let us hear you.
Alhaji Fuseini 12:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think thatit would bring some sanity into this matter,and even if there is only one original copyin the library, that is a library, so, a personcould go and borrow it and return itthereafter. Mr Speaker, the reason I have risenis to ask whether the challenge was to thesource document or to the words thatwere being quoted.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:25 p.m.
First of allto the source document, because if youare clear in your mind about the sourcedocument, you should not have anyproblem if the quotation is right.
Mr Awuah 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the HonMember on his feet said that we arerunning away from our own shadows. Ithink that language is not decorousenough. Therefore, he should be urgedto withdraw that statement.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
HonMember, did you make that statement?
Mr Ahiafor 12:35 p.m.
That is so, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Thenwithdraw.
Mr Ahiafor 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I humblywithdraw the words “running away”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
So, continuewith your presentation.
Mr Ahiafor 12:35 p.m.
And replace it with the factthat they are shying away from --[Laughter.]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
You havewithdrawn and that should end it.
Please, let us make progress.
Mr Ahiafor 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the issue ofenergy had been a problem in 2007 and2008. Ghana is fortunate to have aPresident who came to the House just lastyear, enumerated measures which wouldbe put in place to fix the issue relating tothe energy deficiency. This year, the President came to theHouse to announce to us under thecaption “Ending Dumsor” and he againenumerated those measures which havebeen implemented to solve the problemfor us. Indeed, the President is the lightthrough which Ghanaians can see. MrPresident, we thank you for giving us thelight. [Hear! Hear!] Mr Speaker, it was clear that between2004 and 2007, because of the inability toresolve the issue relating to the energysector, they referred to it as crisis. Mr Speaker, may I humbly thank thePresident for using the platform --[Interruption.]
Dr A. A. Osei 12:35 p.m.
On a point of order. MrSpeaker, I would want to remind my goodFriend that the President is not about toappoint more Ministers, so, he shouldnot be thanking him that much.[Laughter.] He should just thank him, butnot sincerely. He should not say, hethanks him sincerely.
Mr Ahiafor 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, Ghanaiansthank the President sincerely for givingthem the light. In fact, he is a great leader,he is the torchlight through whichGhanaians can see. [Hear! Hear!] Mr Speaker, before the President cameto the House to deliver the State of theNation Address, as a House, we lost ourdear one -- the Hon J. B. Danquah.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
HonMember, you have two more minutes.
Mr Ahiafor 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would wantto thank the President for using theopportunity to extend his condolences tothe bereaved family. The death of Hon J.B. Danquah cannot be said to beanybody's --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
The nameis J. B. Danquah Adu.
Mr Ahiafor 12:35 p.m.
Hon J. B. Danquah Aducannot be said to be any individual'sbusiness or business of a group of people.It is an issue that is affecting the entirenation and it must be seen as such. I amcommending the President for taking theopportunity to extend his condolences tothe bereaved family. Mr Speaker, on this note, I thank youfor the opportunity to contribute to thedebate. [Hear! Hear!]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
HonMembers, it is now the turn of Hon FredaPrempeh.
Ms Freda A. O. Prempeh (NPP --Tano North) 12:35 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, forthe opportunity to contribute to thedebate on the floor. Mr Speaker, when the NDC assumedoffice in 2009, the late Prof. J. E A. Millscame to this House to address us on theState of the Nation and at that time, thetheme of the Address was “Rescue Planfor a Better Ghana” --
Some Hon Members 12:35 p.m.
Source? --Hansard.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
HonMember, what is your source?
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have theHansards of 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014.
I have all of them here -- [Hear! Hear!]And I can table them.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Order! Once you have the Hansards here,you are clear. All we need to do is tomake sure that the Clerks-at-the-Tableconfirm that it is the Hansard.
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am only drawing their attention towhat they said in 2010, 2011, 2012 and2013; I am only talking about the theme. Ihave not even gone into the real issues. The theme for 2011 was “RaisingGhana to the Next Level” -- This was“Rescue Plan for a Better Ghana”
Mr John K. Bless Oti 12:35 p.m.
On a point oforder. Mr Speaker, the Hon Member isquoting from the Hansard. She should tellus the page and the paragraph and sheshould let us know the date. She cannotjust get up and quote from the Hansardswithout telling us the pages andparagraphs.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
HonMembers, I have indicated that the Clerks-at-the-Table will do that for us to confirmthat she is referring to the right documents.If it is the Hansard, the specific columnshould not be a problem. She will make it available to the Clerks-at-the-Table. Mr Djietror can go andinspect them it and then we move on. Let us make progress.
Mr G. K. Arthur 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker,precedence has been set here. Hon Members have spoken referringto documents and we called for theoriginal documents. The Hon Member iscarrying photocopied documents.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Have youseen what she is holding?
Mr G. K. Arthur 12:35 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.They are not original documents.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
They havenot been shown to you. That is why Iasked the Clerks-at-the-Table to inspectthem and advise me, so, we can makesome progress.
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I wouldwant to correct myself. I am rather holdingthe State of the Nation Address, 2009 --“Rescue Plan for a Better Ghana” and notthe Hansard.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
HonMember, what do you have in your hand?Is it the Hansard or the State of the NationAddress.
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this a copyof the State of the Nation Address, 2009-- “Rescue Plan for a Better Ghana” byH. E. President --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
HonMember, that is where we have a problem.The Rt Hon Speaker has already ruled thatit is either an original of the State of theNation Address or from the Hansard.
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
I can get the originalcopy for you, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
If you donot have that, you do not satisfy theconditions. That is the problem.
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I can tenderin the original copies from 2009 to 2012 --[Interruption] -- This is your theme. Areyou running away from it? --[Interruption] -- Why are you runningaway from the theme? [Laughter.]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Order!
Hon Member, please, address the Chairand avoid the asides. If you have the State of the NationAddress, it should be in the original form.If you are referring to the Hansard, wecan look at it, but my information is that,you are not referring to the Hansard.
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I amreferring to the State of the NationAddress.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Which oneare you referring to?
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
The State of the NationAddress, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
If it is notin the original form --
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
This is the original.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
I am afraidfrom the earlier ruling given, we cannotaccept that.
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, can I go on?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
You can goahead with your submission withoutmaking reference --
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
It has already takenabout five minutes of my time.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Withoutmaking reference to those documents.
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this year'sState of the Nation Address is under thetheme “Putting People First”. I do notknow which people the President isreferring to --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
HonMember, you are referring to a documentwhich is not the original.
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this is theoriginal document; this is what was givento me in Parliament. On the first page,“Putting People First”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Is it thisyear's State of the Nation Address?
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:35 p.m.
Very well. I have no problem with that one.
Ms Prempeh 12:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was sayingthat I do not know which people thePresident is referring to when he says that,he is putting people first when we haveso much youth unemployment in thiscountry, which is the real State of theNation as we speak. Mr Speaker, we have UnemployedGraduates Association in this country. Mr Speaker, the President promised ushe would fix dumsor; he did not tell us hewas going to manage it. He said he wouldnot manage it as his predecessors did. Butwhat do we see now? The real State ofthe Nation as it stands now is that,dumsor is still being managed, businessesare collapsing, people are relocating to theother sub-regions, people are dying andthe ordinary ice water seller is finding itdifficult to sell his or her water. The dressmakers are also not makingprofit. As I speak with you, the whole oflast week I did not have light in myconstituency.
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Yes, HonMember, are you up on a point of order?
Mr Kwetey 12:45 p.m.
Thank you very much, MrSpeaker. Mr Speaker, it is important for the HonMember to understand that, even beforewe started having load-shedding, thereused to be faults that happened at variousends. There is a difference between --[Interruption.] There is a difference between poweroutage as a result of insufficiency ofpower, and power outage as a result of adifficulty happening in one's area. So,please, she should not talk about dumsornow. This is because, as we speak now,there is far more power than what thedemand is. And that is a fact.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Very well. Hon Member, I think that at theappropriate time when you have theopportunity, you can address this issue. Yes, Hon Member?
Ms Prempeh 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, sports is thepassion of this nation. Our sports stadiaare all in a very serious and bad situation.Recently, I filed a Question to the Ministerfor Youth and Sports to this effect. All oursports stadia are deteriorating; they havebecome death traps. That is the state ofthe nation as we find ourselves in theMinistry of Youth and Sports, yet, thePresident did not even talk about it. Mr Speaker, the gallant Black Queensrecently won gold for this country. OurQueens up till now, have not been paidtheir allowances. They have been givenonly US$5,000 out of the US$23,000. Is it because they are women? Whenthe Black Stars needed money, money wasflown to Brazil. Why is it that money forthe Black Queens has not been given tothem up till now?
Ms Prempeh 12:45 p.m.


Mr Speaker, the President said he wasgoing to build another stadium in NewEdubiase. Meanwhile, we all know that inthis financial year, there was CapitalExpenditure (CAPEX) captured in theMinistry of Youth and Sports' Budget, so,where is this promise coming from? Andwhat went into the selection of NewEdubiase? Mr Speaker, as I speak with you, thePresident said he was going tocommission the Cape Coast Stadium. Ihave visited the Cape Coast Stadium. Thegrass has even started deterioratingbecause the counterpart funding ofGovernment has not been paid. So, theydo not even have water to water the grassat the Cape Coast Stadium.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
HonMember, with the Cape Coast Stadium, Ihave some information. Withoutdescending into the arena of debate, theplace has been grassed and it is ready forcommissioning. [Hear! Hear!]
Ms Prempeh 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I did not sayit was not finished. What I am saying isthat, when we were there, we wereinformed that the Government has notfulfilled its part of the funding, so, theydo not even have water, and we advisedthem to sink a borehole. So, that is what Iam talking about.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
HonMember, I am talking about the state ofaffairs as of today. It has been grassedand it is ready for commissioning.
Ms Prempeh 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in 2014 -- Mr Awuah -- rose --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
HonMember, please, resume your seat; he isup.
Mr Awuah 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Chair ismore or less participating in the debate. Iwould want to believe that the Chair's dutyis to moderate, and not to participate inthe debate itself.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
HonMember, you are perfectly right, but Iattend all site meetings as an Hon Memberof Parliament. If I am not able to attend,my representative does. So, I am justgiving you some information. That is all.
Mr Awuah 12:45 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would just want to remind you thateven though you are an Hon Member ofParliament, when you sit in the Chair, youdo so as a moderator, not as an HonMember of Parliament. [Interruption.]
Ms Prempeh 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in 2014, thePresident said, and with your permission,I quote from column 882 of the Hansard:
“Government last year revieweddrawings of the Sports Arenas andSports Senior High Schools to beestablished in the District andRegional capitals…”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
HonMember, I would give you two moreminutes.
Ms Prempeh 12:45 p.m.
Mr Speaker, as I speak,not even one has been established. The President, in his own words from2014, and with your permission, I amquoting from the Hansard again:
“Without change, Mr Speaker,Ghana cannot grow. Change is whatwould propel us forward, as anation, to all that lies ahead. ”
The President himself has acceptedthe fact that, without change, Ghanacannot grow. And the change is comingand the change is now. Mr Speaker, last week Thursday, Iheard my Hon Colleagues on the otherSide singing praises; “so so wondersPresident Mahama dey do”. It is true, itis only under his ‘so so wonders' thatindeed, he was able to plunge this countryinto total darkness for four years. It is onlyunder his “so so wonders” that under hisadministration, all the good socialintervention policies that PresidentKufuor's Administration introduced arecollapsing. It is only under his ‘so so wonders'--
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
HonMember, if I may ask, the “so so wonders”,was it part of the President's Address?
Ms Prempeh 12:45 p.m.
No! No! They sangpraises for the President.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Which partof the President's Address was it about?If it was not, then let us not concentrateon that and move on.
Ms Prempeh 12:45 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker. The President promised he was goingto build two hundred senior high schoolsfor us in Ghana. As I speak with you now,only four have been commissioned. Butthe President said there are about onehundred and twenty-three at variouslevels of completion but he did not tell us,where he has you are talking about theState of the Nation Address, exactly whereare those one hundred and twenty-three--
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
HonMember, your time is up.
Ms Prempeh 12:45 p.m.
Exactly where are thoseone hundred and twenty-three (123)which are at different levels ofcompletion?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
Pleaseconclude, your time is up.
Ms Prempeh 12:45 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Hon Deputy Minister forEducation in charge of Tertiary, HonSamuel Okudzeto Ablakwa who I had theopportunity to be with on the sameprogramme said, they have com-missioned four -- [Hear! Hear!]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:45 p.m.
HonMembers, it is now the turn of Hon FifiKwetey.
Minister for Transport (Mr Fifi F. F.Kwetey)(MP) 12:45 p.m.
Thank you very much, MrSpeaker, for the opportunity to contributeto the Motion that, this HonourableHouse thanks H.E. the President for theMessage on the State of the Nation whichhe delivered to Parliament on Thursday,25th February, 2016. Mr Speaker, in doing so, let me reiteratewhat the President said; change ishappening. [Hear! Hear!] It is a changethat sees this nation transforming on aday to day basis, and bringing about areal change in the lives of our people. Mr Speaker, let me reiterate that, inhaving a healthy and transformedcountry, it does not necessarily mean thatevery single statistics needs to be rightjust in the space of a year. We couldsometimes have difficulties in an annualstatistic, but that does not take away thefact that transformation and change arehappening in the country. Mr Speaker, if we recall, this is goingto be the first time in the history of ourcountry that we are going to have anAgency of State, and I am talking aboutthe Ghana Ports and Harbours Authority,
Minister for Transport (Mr Fifi F. F.Kwetey)(MP) 12:45 p.m.
being in the position to leverage US$1.5billion using the private sector, in order tobring about the greatest transformationas far as our port and harbour expansionis concerned.
This is not going to give us four berthsat the port, but it is actually going to makeour port the biggest port in the whole ofsub-Saharan Africa; unprecedented. MrSpeaker, if this is not change, then I donot know what our Hon Friends on theother side are seeing. That is also going to include theexpansion of the Motorway from four tosix lanes. This is being done withoutresorting to a sovereign guarantee andborrowing using the national treasury. Weare actually doing this purely on a privatesector basis, which is actuallyunprecedented as far as the history ofGhana is concerned. This is change andactual transformation. Mr Speaker, it is also a fact, that we areactually talking today about anotherAgency, the Ghana Airport Company,which would be able to use its balancesheet to leverage US$250 million for theconstruction of an ultramodern terminalin our country. This is in order to makethis country become a preferred hub foraviation within the sub-region. This ischange that is transforming the lives ofour people. The fact that we have temporarydifficulties as far as figures are concerned,does not mean that transformation is nothappening. What happened in the energysector is another massive testament of thechange that is taking place. The fact that you have had the removalof fuel subsidies, utility subsidies andthere is the creation of opportunities for

I am happy that H. E. the President hadthe courage to say so because, peoplenever saw what great things formerPresident Kwame Nkrumah, formerPresident Rawlings and former PresidentMills did. So, today they claim that theycannot see the great things H. E. PresidentJohn Mahama is doing and we understand.This is because they have perenniallybeen blinded to all the transformation thathas happened from Independence to date. However, we are happy that the changeis being appreciated by the people ofGhana and come November 7, this year,they would actually go and testify to thechange that they are seeing on a day today basis everywhere in this country. Mr Speaker, let me also explain that,the same President was the leader of theEconomic Management Team that broughtinflation to a single digit and kept it therefor three years back to back. The fact thatthere are temporary difficulties withinflation today, does not mean he has lostit, no. Like it is said, form is temporary,class is permanent and because he hadthe class to be able to do it in the past, heclearly has the capacity to do it again now.That is the difference between the currentregime and the past regime.
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
HonMember, are you on a point of order?Strictly speaking?
Mr Cudjoe 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, thank you forthe opportunity to correct a wrongimpression my Hon Colleague is paintingto us. I want him to understand that,when the nation is on the right path, what
we call economic indicators would bepointing in the right direction.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
HonMember, you are talking about an opinion.This is not a proper point of order.
Dr Prempeh 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the HonMember on his feet said the EconomicManagement Team has for three yearsbeen running back to back and broughtinflation to a single digit --We are talkingabout the term of office of this Presidentfrom 2013 to 2016. In none of thoseyears have we had single digit inflation.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
HonMember, this one is also not a proper pointof order. Hon Member, please, go ahead.
Mr Kwetey 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the point Isought to make was that, the temporarydifficulties we might have today relatingto some of the fundamentals of theeconomy, do not take away the fact thatwe are talking about a President who atthe time he was the leader of the EconomicManagement Team, succeeded in chalkingan unprecedented feat that has neverbeen seen as far as our country isconcerned and that is a fact. The fact that he has done it in the pastshows that, he has what it takes to be ableto restore all these fundamentals back towhere they are supposed to be. Finally, we are looking at a situationwhere the transformation of this countryis making us increasingly competitive andthat is what we should be concernedabout. That is why the transition we aremaking from consumption into investmentis the way it ought to be. The whole obsession by our HonFriends on the Minority Side about debt
needs to give way for them to appreciatethat any country that needs to seektransformation must have the necessaryinvestment. Instead of talking about debt, theyshould now join us to talk aboutinvestments that would bring thetransformation, anchor it, make uscompetitive and take this country to thenext level where clearly, the President iswell able to take it. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
HonMembers, it is now the turn of Hon JoeAppiah.
Mr Justice J. Appiah (NPP --Ablekuma North) 12:55 p.m.
Thank you, MrSpeaker, for this opportunity. The State of the Nation Address didnot reflect the people's circumstances.May I crave your indulgence to read frompage 57 of the State of the Nation Addressby H. E. the President;
“In the more remote parts of ourcountry, the total lack of potablewater meant that our citizens had torisk drinking water that likely carriedwater-borne diseases. Some of thewater sources were shared with theircattle and other livestock. Thissituation had far reachingramifications for the general healthand wellbeing of a large section ofour people.”
Mr Speaker, now, let us get to theBudget Statement and Economic Policyof the Government of Ghana for the 2014financial year:
“Under the Government's 20,000borehole project, 536 out of 1,150boreholes have been drilled and
fitted with handpumps this year.The rest are to be completed in2014.” Mr Speaker, it is only 3,000 boreholesthat have been fitted and drilled. Whenwould the 17,000 deficit be completed?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
What isyour source?
Mr Appiah 12:55 p.m.
My source is the BudgetStatement and Economic Policy for 2014,it is here. So, if 2013 --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
Could youread it out again? What document is that?
Mr Appiah 12:55 p.m.
“Under the Government's 20,000borehole project, 536 out of 1,150boreholes have been drilled andfitted with hand pumps this year;the rest are to be completed in 2014.” Mr Speaker, we are in an election year,2016.when would the 17,000 deficit, becompleted? I do not agree with H. E. thePresident that he has done enough in thewater sector. Baba Ahmed -- rose --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
HonMember, is it on a point of order? I do notwant these interruptions. It does not makethe argument flow. What is the point oforder? Baba Ahmed: Mr Speaker, he isreferring to a 2014 document. We aretalking about 2015 going to 2016 and he istalking about boreholes that weresupposed to be fitted in 2014. How can hemislead the House like that? He ismisleading the House.
Mr Appiah 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I first read fromH. E. the President's Address that 20,000
boreholes were initiated in 2013 to becompleted in 2014. Out of the 20,000boreholes, it is only 3000 that have beenfitted and completed. When would the17,000, be completed? This is what I amtalking about. We are in an election year,2016, and now you have only --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
HonMember, please, go ahead.
Mr Appiah 12:55 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.I would ignore him. I do not agree with H. E. the Presidentabout doing enough in the water sector --
Mr Sampson Ahi 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is truethe 20,000 boreholes were initiated but itwas to be done for a period. So, it is nottrue that it was initiated in 2013 to becompleted in 2014.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:55 p.m.
From theexplanation that he is giving, it looks likeyou have the document showing thatthere is this premise. The President is alsosaying that, at this point in time, so manyhave been drilled. So, what the HonMember is saying is that, the fact that in2014, it was indicated that so many wouldbe drilled does not mean that it would endthere. It is a continuous process and that iswhat H. E. the President is referring to.Unless you have a document to show thatwhat H. E. the President said is not a truereflection of what is on the ground.
Mr Appiah 12:55 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is in the2015 Budget Statement and FinancialPolicy, it is repeated again that, they haveonly fitted 4,000 which means they haveadded only 1,000. My question is simple.We are in an election year, the 16,000deficit, when would it be completed? In2013, they initiated 20,000 boreholes butthey have fitted only 4,000 and we are inan election year.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
HonMember, you are arguing as thoughbecause 2016 is an election year, nothingcan happen. That is your premise.
Mr Appiah 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if thesetargets were met, it would alleviate theplight of our young men and women whowalk several kilometres to look for waterwithout success. On the housing sector, there is a 1.7million deficit. I cannot just understand.1.7 million deficit. When is H.E. the President closing thegap for at least 100,000 Houses He istalking of Saglemi Housing Project. Whenwould this project be completed? And H.E. the former President Kufuor left 5,479houses. For almost three and half to fouryears, the work has not been completed.It has been eight years now, and he istalking about Housing Policy. There is nogood policy on housing. Mr Ahi-- rose --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
HonMember, are you on a point of order? Hon Member, with all due respect, youcan make your point without shouting.
Mr Ahi 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is not true that,his H.E. the former President Kufuor'sGovernment left 5,479 houses as the HonMember is alluding to. He left 4,714Housing Units. Mr Speaker, they started the project inthe year 2005, and it was supposed to becompleted in 2008. By the time they leftoffice, they had done up to about 35 percent of the project.
So, when we came to power, wecontinued. If one goes to the Borteimansite today, by June 2016, we would finish.So, it is not as if we are not doing anythingabout the project.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
HonMember, although you are making a goodpoint, I do not think it satisfies thecondition for a point of order. You aregiving information, correcting probablywhat he is saying. At the appropriate timewhen you have the opportunity, you willhave the chance to correct the record. Doyou get my point? If we go on this way,we would never come to the end of thisdebate.
Mr Ahi 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, he made mentionof the fact that, H. E. the former PresidentKufuor's Government left 5,470 HousingUnits, and that is not true. They left 4,714Housing Units.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
HonMember, as a point of correction, you havemade that statement showing how manythey were at that time and so on and soforth. That is enough. Let him continuewith his contribution.
Mr Appiah 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, dumsor is notcompletely over. Even yesterday, someparts of my constituency slept indarkness; Odorkor, Awoshie andKwashibu all slept in darkness. And he istelling me that the dumsor is over. It is notyet over. Mr Speaker, according to the Child'sRight International, about two millionchildren are not in school. These statisticsare alarming and it gets all theachievements H.E. John Dramani Mahamatrumpeting.
Alhaji Fuseini 1:05 p.m.
On a point of order.Mr Speaker, the Hon Member is grosslymisleading this House. Because this is theHouse of debate and the highest standardof proving has been set by H. E. thePresident, we need to demand proof.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
HonMember, how do you respond to that?
Mr Appiah 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this isaccording to the Child's RightInternational -- [Interruptions] -- I willprovide it.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
HonMember, do you have the document here?
Mr Appiah 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not haveit here, but I would look for it and provideit.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
HonMember, if you do not have the documenthere, then, I am sorry, you cannot refer toit.
Mr Appiah 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I withdraw it.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
HonMember, in that case, that portion of yoursubmission is accordingly -- If you havewithdrawn it, it is all right.
Mr Appiah 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, now, we aretalking about social intervention in this
country. H. E. former President Kufuorbrought the National Health Insurance,Mass Cocoa Spraying, School Feeding,Capitation Grant --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
HonMember, your time is up and I would giveyou one more minute because of theinterjections.
Mr Appiah 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, Metro Mass,Micro finance and Small Loan Centre(MASLOC), Free Bus. The National Democratic Congress(NDC) should tell me one socialintervention that they were able to bringto this country. Mr Speaker, I thank H.E. the Presidentfor hitting hard on his Message that“Change is coming”. Yes, change iscoming and Nana Addo Danquah Akufo-Addo would win the 2016 General,Presidential Election and usher Ghana into60thAnniversary Celebration on the 6th ofMarch, 2017 -- Insha Allah.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
HonMember, what do you mean by InshaAllah? Please, translate.
MrAppiah 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it means --God is great, God would do it, God willing.-- [Laughter.]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
HonMembers, we have come to the end of thedebate. Yes, Hon Deputy Majority Leader, weare in your hands.
Mr Agbesi 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with your kindpermission, if we could take item number4 -- Questions.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
Do we havethe Hon Ministers responsible here?
Mr Agbesi 1:05 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker, the HonMinister is in the House.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
Very well. Do we have the Hon Members askingthe Questions here?
Mr Agbesi 1:05 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
Very well-- Hon Members, Question time. Hon Members, the first Question is anUrgent Question which stands in the nameof Hon Joseph Osei-Owusu; Member ofParliament for Bekwai.
URGENT QUESTION 1:05 p.m.
MINISTRY OF HEALTH 1:05 p.m.
Minister for Health (Mr Alex PercivalSegbefia) 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Ministry ismindful of the state of this project, whichis 65 per cent complete. The Ministry hasbeen exploring for additional funds tocomplete the Bekwai project. Fortunately, the Ministry received afunding proposal from ENPROJECTS ofFrance in October, 2015 to complete theproject. This proposal from DeutscheBank of Paris was submitted to theMinistry of Finance for review and advice. Mr Speaker, I am happy to announcethat the Ministry of Finance has indicatedits approval of the funding term submittedby ENPROJECTS.
Mr Osei-Owusu 1:05 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it isheart-warming, in my view, to hear thatsome steps are being taken. I would, however, like to find out fromthe Hon Minister whether any steps arebeing taken to keep the 65 per cent as itwas before. This is because, my visit tothe place suggests that a lot ofdeterioration is happening now.
Mr Segbefia 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, there are twoprojects which we have to try and dealwith as a priority. One of them is theBekwai Hospital. However, because of theamounts involved, it is prudent to actuallysecure all the funds. There is a component that deals withupgrading or any deterioration that mayhave occurred in the current structure asit stands. That is part of the componentsthat we seek for, with regard to the loanthat we are sourcing. As I said, earlier thathas been approved by the Ministry ofFinance and it would be brought toCabinet and subsequently to Parliament.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
HonMember, any further follow up?
Mr Osei-Owusu 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, justanother one for now.
Mr Speaker, from their calculationsteps, when do we expect that the approvalpart would be ready and reach this House?
Mr Segbefia 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am loathedto give deadlines and timelines in ourprofession. I would say that we shallendeavour to get it to Cabinet as soon aspossible. Once it gets to Cabinet, theprocess of getting it to Parliament wouldbe enhanced. We suspect that because approval hasbeen given, we hope at the next sitting ofCabinet, if not the next one then, thefollowing one, the document would bepresented. I cannot, however, givetimelines on when Cabinet would next becalled.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
HonMember, your last follow-up Question.
Mr Osei-Owusu 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, do Iunderstand from the Hon Minister that,on the part of the Ministry, they havefinished and ready to submit to Cabinetat the next meeting?
Mr Segbefia 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, no! We arewaiting for the document from theMinistry of Finance. We have to gothrough the preparatory stages and putthe documents in order. We know thatconfirmation has been given by theMinistry of Finance that this loan facilityis available, but I am not saying that theMinistry of Health has finished preparingits documentation.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
HonMembers, we move on to the nextQuestion.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
HonMembers, these are constituency-specificQuestions.
Mr Agbesi 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we agreed atLeadership level on this issue that, whena Question is constituency-specific, wego on that line.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Very well. The next Question stands in the nameof Hon Anthony Osei Boakye —[Pause]— We move on to the next one. Dr Prempeh — rose --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Do youhave his authority?
Dr Prempeh 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have hisauthority.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Did hespecifically authorise you to ask thisQuestion on his behalf? Very well, you can go ahead.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 1:15 p.m.
MINISTRY OF HEALTH 1:15 p.m.
Minister for Health (Mr Alex PercivalSegbefia) 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Ministry ofHealth has a strategic plan to expand theservices of the National AmbulanceService to cover all district capitals in the
country. The requirements and conditionsto be fulfilled are as follows: 1. A two-room office accommodationwith dedicated telephone lines; 2. A crew room for the personnelwith bunker beds; 3. A store room for medicalconsumables and other movableequipment; 4. An Ambulance bay or garage forthe parking of ambulance; 5. Washroom facilities; and 6. Residential accommodation forthe personnel to be posted tothe District.
When these requirements are met, ateam from the region or headquarters issent to inspect the facilities and if theymeet the criteria, the district will then beconsidered in the next expansionprogramme.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
HonMember, any follow up?
Dr Prempeh 1:15 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker. MrSpeaker, could the Hon Minister informthe House, how many districts arequalified under this scheme?
Mr Segbefia 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not havethe answer to that Question. All I can sayis that, the policy of the Ministry is that,all districts at some point should have anambulance bay. For those that do not have thesefacilities, it behoves the Municipal andDistrict Chief Executives in those districtsto make sure that in tandem with the
ambulance services, they provide this.Once that is done, we would be in theposition to deal — I am told that there are130 districts at the moment.
Dr Prempeh 1:15 p.m.
Out of the 130 districtsthat have qualified under the scheme, howmany of them have working ambulancesat post now?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
HonMember, I believe that you should look atthe tone of the Question. The tone of theQuestion does not make room for whatyou are asking. But I will not stop the HonMinister if he is in the position to providethe answer.
Mr Segbefia 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe allthe 130 districts have. It is accurate to saythat 40 of those ambulances, are in theworkshop and districts are being repaired.Out of the 130, we would say, they areshort by 40. But all of them haveambulances allocated to them, and as theybreak down, we repair and replace them.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
HonMember, your last follow-up, if any. If not,we move on.
Mr Osei-Owusu 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, listeningto the Hon Minister, I noticed that,provision of fuel for the ambulances is notone of the conditions for the districts tomeet. May I know whether the HonMinister is aware that, practically, MCEsand Members of Parliaments are askedevery day to provide fuel for theambulances to work, otherwise, they aregrounded — In some cases, we have toguarantee before they can get fuel?
Mr Segbefia 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, running costof the ambulance service is dealt with fromthe National Ambulance Service which isthe centre. So, some funding is allocatedto each district, based on what isperceived to be running cost. However,
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Very well. Hon Members, the next Questionstands in the name of Hon StephenKunsu, Member of Parliament forKintampo North.
Mr G. K. Arthur 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the HonMember has given me his authority tocrave your indulgence to ask the Questionon his behalf.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
Very well.
Kintampo College of Health andWellbeing(Completion of Hostel Project) Q. 507. Mr George Kofi Arthur (onbehalf of Mr Stephen Kunsu) asked theMinister for Health what plans theMinistry has to complete the hostel project
for the Kintampo College of Health andWellbeing.
Mr Segbefia 1:15 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Ministryhad been notified of Ghana EducationTrust Fund's (GETFund) willingness torelease funds to activate and complete the4-storey building hostel block of theschool. The Ministry's supervisingconsultants have also been granted theapproval by GETFund to continue thesupervision services to facilitate thecompletion of the Hostel in order to beefup the accommodation facilities forstudents.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
HonMember, any follow-up?
Mr G. K. Arthur 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, asindicated by the Hon Minister, may I knowwhen the GETFundand the Ministryintend to start the actual constructionproject?
Mr Segbefia 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, much as Iwould love to give an indication, this isbecause the cost of funding is actuallycoming from the GETFund, I am not in theposition to give the Hon Member aspecific answer. All I can say to him isthat we would make every effort to liaisewith the GETFund to ensure that themoney comes as soon as possible. But itis not an Agency that is under myMinistry.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Yes, HonMember, any further follow up Question?
Mr G. K. Arthur 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I wouldalso want to know if it would be possibleto start the project this year as he hasindicated.
Mr Segbefia 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, our intentionis that, that project should actuallycommence this year, so we are going toliaise and negotiate with GETFund toensure that the project can commence thisyear. That is our intention.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
That is yourintention. Very well. Hon Member, are you done?
Mr G. K. Arthur 1:25 p.m.
Yes.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
HonMembers, the next Question stands in thename of Hon Robert Kwasi Amoah,Member of Parliament for Achiase.
Achiase Health Centre(Renovation and possible upgrade) Q. 508. Mr Robert Kwasi Amoah askedthe Minister for Health when the AchiaseHealth Centre would be renovated andpossibly upgraded to the status of aDistrict Hospital.
Mr Segbefia 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Ministryhas a policy of providing health facilitiesat all levels across the country; thus fromthe national to the community level.District hospitals are basically providedfor district capitals. However, sinceAchiase is a subdistrict within Birim South,the Ministry can only consider theconstruction of a polyclinic that covers asignificant portion of the primary healthcare services. Indeed, the major difference here willbe the number of beds. Whereas theMinistry considers bed numbers rangingbetween 60 and 120 for District Hospitals,the Polyclinics would have a maximum of40 beds.
As soon as funding is secured, theAchiase Health Centre will be upgradedto a polyclinic.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Yes, HonMember, any follow up question?
Mr R. K. Amoah 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am alittle worried about the response in thaton July 9, 2014, I asked the same Question.I have the Official Report here and withyour permission, I would want to read theresponse I had.
“The Ministry is in the process ofarranging funding under variousfunding sources and I wish toestablish that as soon as funds aremade available, the Achiase HealthPost will be renovated into a districthospital”. The year 2014 is gone as well as 2015;and in 2016, we are still saying that assoon as funding is secured, the AchiaseHealth Centre will be upgraded to apolyclinic.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
I believeyour question is, how do we reconcile thetwo?
Mr R. K. Amoah 1:25 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr Segbefia 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I stand bymy position and that is that Achiase isnot a district and so we cannot give thema district hospital at this stage. What wecan do is to ensure that they have apolyclinic. You would notice that over thelast couple of years, the Government hasinitiated the building of polyclinics on aregional basis. There are five in the Upper WestRegion, five in the Northern Region andmore recently, I think there were ten in theCentral Region. We are hoping to get tothe Eastern Region where they would also

be given their allocation of five hospitalsonce we get the funding approved. We would endeavour to ensure that inthose five polyclinics that we intend tobuild, Achiase is one of them. But at themoment, we are dealing with the WesternRegion and then I think Volta Region andthen we move to the Eastern and AshantiRegions. That is the position onpolyclinics.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Any furtherfollow-up Question, Hon Member?
Mr R. K. Amoah 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, lookingcritically at my Question, it is in two parts.The first part is renovation; this HealthPost was constructed in 1962 and it hasnever seen renovation ever since. I hadto intervene in 2014 to re-roof four of therooms; the two wards, a record room andthe dispensary. So if we are still sayingthat funds are now being sourced torenovate it, then I do not think we are veryserious about the health of the peoplethere. Mr Speaker, I would want to put onrecord that this clinic serves the onlyJungle Warfare Military Training Schoolin Africa. [Interruption.] Yes! And thepeople would have to go to Oda for healthcare. People from all over the world comethere for training.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
HonMember, I believe your question is aboutthe area of renovation. What plan is theMinistry making on renovation it.[Interruption.] From the answer the HonMinister has given, there is a possibilityof upgrading it in the future to a polyclinic.In the meantime, can anything be doneabout renovation?
Mr Segbefia 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the questionI believe was when we were going toupgrade the health centre into a hospital.And my answer was that, it would notbe a hospital but when we then decide todo the upgrade, it would be a polyclinic. The issue of renovation of a healthcentre, which will still remain a healthcentre after renovation is one that we canlook at. But if it is an issue of upgrading it,that is a different issue entirely. And thatis what we have to secure funds for. If it isto renovate an existing structure so thatit still remains a health centre, the Ministrycan look at it to see whether it is withinour remit to be able to assist in the short-term.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Are yousatisfied, Hon Member?
Mr R. K. Amoah 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I wassatisfied when he said the renovation canat least go on. Hon Minister, when do weexpect the renovation because it is acritical situation?
Mr Segbefia 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in situationslike this, what we do is that we send atechnocrat from the Ministry to look atwhat is needed to renovate and the costof it. Once we get the documentation andthe proposal, we can look within ourbudget and move to the Ministry ofFinance to see whether we can get fundingdepending on the amount to do this slightwork. That is different from an upgrade;that is just a renovation process. Thank you.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
That bringsus to the end of Question time. Hon Minister, we thank you forattending upon this House to answerthese Questions. You are discharged. [Pause.]
Dr Prempeh— rose --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:25 p.m.
Hon DeputyMajority Leader? The Hon Prempeh is completely out oforder. [Laughter]
Mr Agbesi 1:25 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if we can moveto the Order Paper Addendum to enablethe Hon Chairman of the Committee to laya Paper.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Very well. Hon Members, Order Paper Addendum.At the Commencement of Public Business-- Presentation of Papers by the HonChairman of the Finance Committee.
PAPERS 1:35 p.m.
Mr Agbesi 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with yourpermission, if we could proceed to itemnumber 18 on the main Order Paper forthe House to move into the Committee ofthe Whole to enable the consideration ofthe formula for the disbursement of theNational Health Insurance Fund for 2016.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Very well. Hon Members, before we move into theCommittee of the Whole, I have this shortannouncement to make. It is to do withthe membership of the EmolumentsCommittee, under article 71 of the 1992Constitution. From the Majority side, we have HonMohammed-Mubarak Muntaka, HonAhmed Ibrahim and Hon Benjamin Kpodo.On the Minority side, we have HonIgnatius Baffour Awuah and Hon JosephCudjoe. So, these are the Hon Membersof the Committee. Hon Members, accordingly, Sittingwould be suspended for the House tomove into a Committee of the Whole. Thank you very much. 1.38 p.m. -- Sitting suspended. 4.20 p.m. -- Sitting resumed.
MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
There isnobody on the Leadership bench. HonDeputy Majority Leader, any indication?[Pause.] Hon Chairman of the Committee, arewe going to item numbered 15?
Chairman of the Committee (MrMatthias Puozaa) 1:35 p.m.
Clause 4 (c).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Is it itemnumbered 15 on the Order Paper? Hon
Mr Agbesi 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, item numbered15.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
TheChartered Institute of Taxation Bill, 2014at the Consideration Stage.
Mr Isaac Osei 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in my view,there is no urgency about this Bill and itis now 4.25 p.m.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
HonIsaac Osei, I thank you very much. I willappeal to you to have a word with yourHon Chief Whip and then I will recogniseyou again.
Mr Isaac Osei 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I haveactually done so.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Haveanother word with him. He has justsignalled me that he wants a second wordwith you. [Laughter.] I will also advisethe Hon Majority Chief Whip to add hisvoice to that. Hon Members, let us just do a littlework on this. In fact, I must congratulateyou. We have many more Hon Membersin the Chamber than we used to have insome times past when we got toConsideration Stage. It was the solepreserve of about three or four HonMembers. But now -- Dr A. A. Osei?
Dr A. A. Osei 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I recall that,the last time, a lot of issues were raisedbut nobody has told us about what thecontributions have come to and you aresaying we should consider the Bill. I am
forced to -- No, The Charted Institute ofTaxation Bill. That is why it waswithdrawn.[Interruption.] The HonMajority Leader himself rose [Interruption.]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Dr A. A.Osei?
Dr A. A. Osei 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I raised alot of issues and nobody has talked tome. So, I am forced to raise them and it willbe -- That is why it was withdrawn.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Hon DrA. A. Osei, I could not agree with youmore. I just had a discussion with theClerks-at-the-Table, if you give me asecond for me to put it across. First of all there are some issues thatwe are going to discuss today, for example,the issue of “Chartered” and “Ghana” inclause 1. There are some very contentiousissues that we do not want to deal withtoday but there are some non-contentiousmatters that we can deal with. Tomorrow, we can handle thecontentious issues earlier. I know theissue that you are talking about. If youlook at your Votes and Proceedings, youwill see the matters that were deferred forfurther consideration. So, I am going to ask whether after ithas been deferred -- For example, wetalked about clause 4 and we wanted toreduce the membership to nine. There wasalso the issue of whether the Chairpersonmust be somebody who has expertise intaxation and so on. So, Dr A. A. Osei, when we call theclause, then we will ask whether there hasbeen any consultation and if not, at thatpoint, you can raise your point.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, normallywhen we stay like this, we are informedthat there is some sense of urgency whyafter 4.30 p.m. we have to go through aBill so that we are not rushed. Nothinghas been brought to our attention. So, itlooks like we are determined to legislateat this time that we do not have enoughpeople and there is no sense of urgency. If there is a sense of urgency, we needto be told and we do not want to gothrough Standing Order 48. We do notwant to do that.
Mr Agbesi 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, last week, theBusiness Committee Report indicatedthat this week, as much as possible, weshall work so that at our rising time willnot pile issues on us It was agreed that,Leadership should make provision for usto do extra work and Sit beyond 2:00 p.m.that has been done and there is no reasonnow, why we should say, we are notmoving on. Mr Speaker, this is because we havedone everything possible for Sittingbeyond the normal time. Yes, we did notinform the House at the beginning that,there is urgency for this Bill but the workof Parliament is still ongoing. This Bill has been set down and weagreed that, we are going to go beyond2.00 p.m. We have made the necessaryprovisions for this work to go on. So,please, Hon Members, bear with us atleast, let us do some work for an hour then,we can go. Mr Speaker, we are pleading with ourHon Colleagues more to do an hour andsee how far we could go with this Bill.This is because we have agreed on thatand it was adopted in the BusinessStatement for this week.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the HonDeputy Majority Leader is giving theimpression that, the pre-requisite for ourSitting is that, proper arrangements havebeen made. That is not the issue. Mr Speaker, I am talking aboutfundamental questions being raised aboutthe Bill and for which reason we shouldadjourn. That is it. Mr Speaker, I do not have anydifficulty working an additional hour butI am saying that, if we have to repeat whatwe went through, then we might as wellnot come here.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Dr A. A.Osei, what I am saying is that, when westart the process, if you note, we will belooking at the Votes and Proceedings tosee what happened on that day. That isthe Votes and Proceedings of Tuesday,16th February. When we start the process and call theclause, if it was deferred then they haveto tell us what they have done. If nothinghas happened then we have to further --
Mr I. Osei 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we have anindication from the front bench here onthe Majority side that, we may Sit up to5.00 p.m. If that is the case, then Iwithdraw my objection. [Interruption.]He just said it; 5.00 p.m. Let him deny it, ifit is 5.00 p.m., we agree and then we coulddo something up to 5.00 p.m. and close tilltomorrow.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
I havenot known the Hon Member for Subin tobe -- I thought he was very -- Let meleave it there. You have not done anythingwrong but I thought our Hon Member forSubin was quite understanding in someof these matters but now, you want toensure that the right thing is done. Thank you very much.
Mr I. Osei 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, thank you verymuch. I do not want to get into anydiscussion beyond this with you, I respectthe Chair and they have given anindication of 5.00 p.m. and I hope 5.00 p.m.,we shall rise.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
HonMember, I thank you very much for yourunderstanding. I hope you will stay andcontribute. We always value yourcontribution. Hon Chairman of Committee? Clause4. What have you done, it was deferredfor today. Tell us what you have donegenerally before you start.
BILLS -- CONSIDERATIONSTAGE 1:35 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee (MrPuozaa) 1:35 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in the first place,we have worked on clause 1.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:35 p.m.
Youworked on which clause?
Mr Puozaa 1:35 p.m.
We met with the membersof the Chartered -- We have worked onclause 1, this is because there was aproblem with the title of the Bill.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
Have youagreed? So, I should call clause 1.
Mr Puozaa 4:30 p.m.
It is accepted that it shouldbe Chartered Institute of Taxation (Ghana).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
Are youstill keeping the “Chartered”?
Mr Puozaa 4:30 p.m.
Yes, there was a problemwith it.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
All right.So, what we would do is that HonChairman, this was deferred. So, I wouldput the Question and then we would takethe vote on it. So, you are saying that clause 1 --which has been called already. So, Hon Chairman of the Committee --Clause 1? You are proposing an amendment.
Mr Puozaa 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,that it should be Chartered Institute ofTaxation (Ghana).
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
“There is established by this Act abody corporate with perpetualsuccession to be known as theChartered Institute of Taxation(Ghana).” That is the amendment you areproposing. Dr A. A. Osei -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
HonAkoto Osei?
Dr A. A. Osei 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, two things.The amendment here says:
“Subclause (1), line 2, “Taxation”add “ Ghana”. I do not understand the amendment.What does it mean by “Taxation” add“Ghana”?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
AfterTaxation.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:30 p.m.
But it does not say that.It says; “Taxation” add “, Ghana”. So, if Iadd “Ghana” to “Taxation” -- is it joint?The amendment itself is not correct.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
But nowhe has clarified it on the floor. And Ieven said that:
“There is established by this Act abody corporate with perpetualsuccession to be known as theChartered Institute of Taxation(Ghana).” Do you agree or not?
Dr A. A. Osei 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, you raisedthe issue that there was a discussion evenabout the “Chartered” in clause 1.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
Now, I ampresiding and the issue was raised by HonPapa Owusu-Ankomah.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:30 p.m.
Yes, but I am sayingthat that issue has not been resolved.What he said was that they met with thepeople and they believed that it shouldbe this. But there is a fundamental issueabout why we should use the word“Chartered”. However, he said it hasbeen resolved. Who resolved it? You do not have the mandate, as theQueen does, to give that term “Charter”.So, I am saying that there is a problemwith clause 1.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
So, youoppose it?
Dr A. A. Osei 4:30 p.m.
This is because we havenot solved all the problems.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
So, youoppose the proposed amendment?
Dr A. A. Osei 4:30 p.m.
No! Not this proposedamendment but the other issue related toit that is not even captured here -- Theissue of “Charter”. You mentioned it.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
HonAkoto Osei, procedure wise, the HonChairman of the Committee has proposedan amendment to clause 1. If you opposethat amendment that he has proposed,you can speak against it. Then we wouldtake the vote and then if you have anotheramendment --
Dr A. A. Osei 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I oppose itfor this reason that we still have the name“Chartered Institute of Taxation (Ghana)”.The “Ghana” is not the issue for me butwe are still keeping “Chartered” and thereis no reason why we should. For thatreason, until we resolve the problem of“Chartered”, I oppose the Motion.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
HonIsaac Osei?
Mr I. Osei 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just want toknow from the Hon Chairman -- Underwhose Charter is this Institute of Taxationis calling itself Chartered Institute? I knowthat in the United Kingdom (UK) theQueen charters them by royal assent. So,I would want to know, perhaps there issomething in Ghana that we do not know.So, let us know -- [Interruption] -- Ithas to be done by the Head of State andnot Parliament. Mr Joseph Y. Chireh -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
Yes, HonYieleh Chireh?
Mr Chireh 4:30 p.m.
The name the law is givingto this Institute is what has beenrecommended. If you look at the practicein the Commonwealth countries -- ourneighbours in Nigeria passed a law and it

is Chartered Institute of Nigeria. InMalaysia, it is a similar thing. In fact, it isa term that is commonly used by all ofthem. What I am saying is that the issue of“Chartered” -- Like a University or anytertiary institution that seeks charteringand the President confers it is a differentthing. This is the name they would preferto be used. When we met the promotersof the Bill, that is the President of theInstitute and his members, they said theywould prefer that we keep it as it is. It is not that they are saying but thelegality is that once you are making a lawand you say this is the name then thatmeans you have conferred on them. Butapart from that the reason they are talkingabout the Charter is that they are certifyingpeople to practise, taking people throughexaminations and all that. So, there isnothing really wrong if we give them thename, as they prefer it. Thank you, Mr Speaker, Mrs Gifty E. Kusi -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
HonGifty Kusi?
Mrs Kusi 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think once thePresident assents to this Bill, since thePresident who has the authority in Ghanathen it is chartered by the President. Thisis because he is going to sign the Bill intoan Act.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
Thankyou. Hon Deputy Majority Leader?
Mr Agbesi 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, whathappened the last time was that there was
serious objection to the word “Charter”.So, if the Committee has gone and comeback with the same word “Charter”, theproblem still persists. In my view, theamendment they have brought has added“Ghana” and it only means that we areestablishing an institution which wouldbe taxation bias and it is to be in Ghana. If it is Ghana, then why do we not say“Institute of Taxation Ghana” or “GhanaInstitute of Taxation”? Then we wouldleave the word “Charter” to whateverbrought it to Ghana -- [Laughter]-- Thisis because the issue was that that colonialmentality is still persisting and they wouldwant to do away with it. That is why theyare saying that let us leave the word“Charter” and then do everything“Ghana”. That was the purpose.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
Before Icome to Hon Dan Botwe -- I would wantto give you the last bite of the cherry --
Mr Daniel Botwe 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it isabout this aspect of colonial mentality thatgot my interest. I would have wished thatall this suit wearing and if you enter theChamber without wearing a tie -- As acolonial mentality. You would be told thatyou are not properly dressed. So, now thatyou would want to shed of all the colonialmentality then, maybe, later in the House,the Speakers and Hon Members wouldnot have to put on suit and ties to berecognised as properly dressed.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
Hon DanBotwe, thank you very much for yourcontribution. You wanted to say theSpeaker's gown because of the way youwere looking at me. But you did not say it. Mr James K. Avedzi -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
HonAvedzi, I have a suspicion that I knowwhat you are coming to say. You are aChartered Accountant, are you not?
Mr Avedzi 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, exactly so. Iam a Chartered Accountant.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
And youwant to be a Chartered Taxation Memberas well?
Mr Avedzi 4:30 p.m.
In fact, I am a member ofthe Institute. We registered the Institutein the name Chartered Institute of Taxation(Ghana), with the Registrar-General. As explained by the Hon Yieleh Chireh,it is something that has been adopted overthe years. I do not know why the removalof the word “Chartered” is something thatsome people are championing. I do notthink that we legislating and calling thisChartered Institute of Taxation Ghana issomething that would go against the lawsof our land. I do not think so.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
That isnot what they are saying. That is why weare debating, Hon Avedzi. We have theright to call it “Chartered” or we have theright to take away the word “Chartered”.As Hon Members of Parliament, that iswhy we are debating it. We can even callit “Taxation Ghana” --
Mr Avedzi 4:40 p.m.
So Mr Speaker, I am urgingHon Members that we accept and use“Chartered”.
Mr I. Osei 4:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I asked aquestion and I expected that the HonChairman of the Committee would answer.I asked that even though it might havebeen partly answered by both Hon YielehChireh and Hon Gifty Kusi, the HonChairman also held the same view about
Mr Avedzi 4:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is Parliamentthat is chartering this Institute by thepassage of this Law. We have the Instituteof Chartered Accountants, Ghana, andthis one is Chartered Institute of Taxation,Ghana.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 p.m.
Whatabout bankers?
Mr Avedzi 4:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, well, it is theywho do not want to use it. If they want it,they can have the Institute of CharteredBankers.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 p.m.
But whatdo they have now?
Mr Avedzi 4:40 p.m.
Why is Hon Agbesi notcomfortable with the word “chartered”?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 p.m.
Maybe,he would want lawyers to be chartered aswell. Hon Agbesi, should we haveChartered Ghana Bar Association? Hon Agbesi, the Hon Avedzi is askingwhy you are uncomfortable with the word“Charter”. Or do you want to Charter as alawyer?
Mr Agbesi 4:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if the Chairmanof the Committee is of the opinion and thewhole Committee says we should maintainthe word “charter”, I would withdraw myobjection.
Mr Speaker 4:40 p.m.
All right I will take thevotes.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, by ourrules, the amendment you have called ismy amendment.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 p.m.
What isthe amendment now?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 p.m.
Underour rules, ones does not need to secondit. Hon Akoto Osei, please, what is youramendment? Remind me. I think he iscorrect.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, theproposed amendment, If I remember is thatwe should call it Chartered Institute ofTaxation, Ghana. My proposedamendment was that the name should berejected[Pause]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 p.m.
HonAkoto Osei, I would be ruling on thismatter. If you like, give me a second.[Pause.] Hon Members, an amendment wasadvertised on page 4 of the Order Paperof 3rd March, 2016. The said amendmentwas to clause 1 of the Chartered Instituteof Taxation Bill, 2014. The amendmentstated as follows and I quote:
“Clause 1 -- Amendment proposed-- Subclause (1), line 2, “Taxation”add “, Ghana”.” This amendment was advertised in thename of the Chairman of the Committee.When the Hon Chairman was called uponto move the amendment, he furtheramended that amendment. The further amendment he made wasthat, instead of “taxation”, add “, Ghana”.After he moved that amendment, therewere extensive discussions on the matter. The Hon Member for Old Tafo, HonAkoto Osei proposed a further amendmentto the amendment proposed by the HonChairman of the Committee.
Hon Members, Standing Order 129deals with the Consideration Stage of aBill. Subclause (a) deals with theprocedure. It says that: “(a) Mr. Speaker shall call the numberof each clause and the Clerk shallread the marginal note oppositeto each clause or notes on top ofeach clause, and if noamendment is offered Mr.Speaker shall, after each clausehas been called, put the question“The clause ... stand part of theBill”;
Subclause (b) deals with amendmentand says that at any time before thequestion is put, a Member can proposean amendment. Hon Members, Standing Order 129 isnot clear on what happens when anamendment is proposed to an amendment.But since all laws such as the StandingOrders should be read as a whole, we shallseek refuge under Standing Order 83.Standing Order 83 deals with method ofopposing and putting Questions onamendment. It is my considered view that to arriveat a conclusion, we must read StandingOrder 129, together with Standing Order83. Standing Order 83 indicates that wherethere is an amendment to an amendment,the Question on the later amendmentshould be put first before the Questionon the earlier amendment is put. Standing Order 84 (4) says:
“(4) If an amendment is moved to anamendment upon which Mr.Speaker has proposed theQuestion, the last mentionedamendment shall be dealt with asif it were the original Motion untilall amendments to it have beendisposed of.”
Hon Members, on that basis, I inviteHon Akoto Osei to state his amendmentin full so that we take that first. And if it isdisposed of, we take the Hon Chairman'samendment.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:50 p.m.
Thank you very much.But I thought my Hon Chairman said Icould not do that. Yesterday, when youtook us through Standing Order 129 (b) --[Interruption] --Wait. I took refuge inOrder 129 (b). But Mr Speaker, having ruled in myfavour, I would want to be magnanimous.Given that my brothers still want to havethe colonial ties and want to insist on theword “Chartered”, if they want thehistorical ties, what can I say. I wouldtherefore not move the amendment andaccept their desire to be tied to the Queen.That is fine.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
So, HonAkoto Osei, accordingly you havewithdrawn your amendment?
Dr A. A. Osei 4:50 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Thankyou.
Mr I. Osei 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in supportingthe amendment by the Chairman, I amgoing to take a step back from some ofthe things I said. I have gone throughThesaurus and Wikipedia and for thebenefit of all of us, it says:
“A chartered professional is aperson who has gained a remarkablelevel of competence in a particularfield of work.”
Mr Speaker, it goes on 4:50 p.m.
“Chartered status is awarded mainlyby professional bodies such as theBar Counsel and then the society. Itis common in Britain and in theCommonwealth. It has beenadopted by organisations aroundthe world.” Mr Speaker, that is sufficient for me andI support the Chairman's amendment.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
HonAgbesi, do you want to say something?
Mr Agbesi 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, like the lawlords, I also agree. [Laughter.] Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Clause 4,Chairman of the Committee.
Mr Puozaa 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 4 subclause (1), delete and insertthe following:
“4 (1) The governing body of theInstitute is a Council consistingof: (c) the VicePresident of the Instituteelected by members of theInstitute at an annual generalmeeting of the Institute --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Beforeyou move your amendment -- I know Iam being a little unorthodox. But beforeyou move your Motion, go to thespecifics. Please, sit down. Before you go to the specifics, if mymemory serves me right, there were twoissues that we were considering withregard to clause 4. They wanted to reducethe numbers. That is one. The secondissue was that the House thought it wasunnecessary that the Vice Presidentshould also be a member.
Mr Puozaa 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the firstargument was that there was no needhaving the Vice President as a member ofthe council. Secondly, there was another issue thatthe number should be pruned down tonine. Mr Speaker, we consulted thepromoters of the Bill and we learnt that atthe moment, there are 15 members of theCouncil. So, if we are pruning it down, atleast 13 would be all right. But to limit itdown to nine might be a bit too much. Mr Speaker, it is also said that thesevarious people are representing severalother sections of the Institute so we feltthat if possible, we should come down tothe 13 that we proposed by ouramendment. So, these were the two issues.
Dr Prempeh 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, myconsultations show that they were noteven averse to having a seven-memberBoard. I do not think we should exceednine. The reason is that as soon as wepass the law, all the Board Members wouldstart claiming sitting allowance and it isgoing to the Consolidated Fund. Andeverybody should justify his inclusion onthe policy Board. The fact that there are differentcomponents or different parts of theassociation does not mean thateverybody should come on the policygoverning Board. Mr Speaker, this Institute is a traininginstitute apart from being a regulatory
institute. Just like the universities, theyhave the academic Board, promotionsBoard, and other Boards, which are full ofmembers of the Institute. But with theUniversity Council, it is not everyconstituent part of the university thatgoes there. Mr Speaker, we have the Presidentthere. We should rather be thinking aboutthe day -to-day runner of the institute,who is not --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
HonMember, I am not cutting you short, I justwant us to remind ourselves of what weare doing. We are not dealing with theclause by clause. We are looking at clause4 as a whole. This is because when wefinish looking at it as a whole, it would beeasier to deal with it clause by clause. So,let us allow some discussion on that sothat we could come to a convergence. Hon Member, continue.
Dr Prempeh 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, just as theuniversities, the Vice Chancellor is not theChairman of the Council, the President ofthis Institute is also not the Chairman ofthe Chartered Institute of Taxation. Mr Speaker, secondly, we need onlynine members and not more than that. Andout of the nine, five should be externalmembers who are not directly members ofthe institute. I would want that principle to beestablished. Then once the President ison, we could even bring the Registrar, whois the administrator of the Institute to bethe Secretary of the Board and then wegive the external members, the Presidentand the Minister the chance to nominateother members to make up the nine. Weshould not exceed nine.
Mr Speaker, please, we are not makingthe Bill. The Chairman made the samemistake with the University of Ghana andhe has regretted today. The promoters of the Bill said that weare here as representatives of the peopleof Ghana and what is good for us is whatwe would do for Ghanaians; not what oneassociation thinks we should give them.When they start coming to collect money,we would not be there, it would be leftwith the finance people to find money forthem.
Mr Kpodo 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think theissue about numbers on the Board cannotsimply be looked at in terms of how manypeople are on the Board but the quality ofdiscussion that can be obtained from themeetings of the Board. Mr Speaker, when we just limit it tonine, what is the reason for that? Thereare other councils. For instance, theInstitute of Chartered Accountants haseleven members on the Board --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
HonKpodo, when you say quality, there couldbe 30 people of no quality and five peopleof quality. I thought you meantstakeholders, where people mustrepresent certain interest because --
Mr Kpodo 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am coming tothat. Mr Speaker, he talked about theuniversities, but all stakeholders of theuniversities have representatives on theCouncil. And at one time, we even had 22members of a Governing Council --[Interruption.]
An Hon Member 4:50 p.m.
We have regretted.
Mr Kpondo 4:50 p.m.
Who has regretted? Wecannot leave certain people out.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
HonKpodo, address the Speaker. [Laughter.]When somebody says they haveregretted, do not respond.
Mr Kpodo 5 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am of the viewthat if reducing the number of members ofthe Council would take away the VicePresident, then no. This is because theVice President is very crucial to themanagement of the Institute. When we gofor meetings, we put down the resolutionsof the decisions taken. But thediscussions that ensue before a decisionis arrived at is a lot and very informative. Council meetings are not recorded likethe Hansard where even if people say,[Hear! Hear!] it is recorded. In Council meetings, only decisions arerecorded, and therefore it would be veryinstructive for the Vice President to be amember.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5 p.m.
HonKpodo, were you here the last time whenthis was discussed?
Mr Kpodo 5 p.m.
Yes, I was here.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5 p.m.
But doyou remember -- Mrs Kusi -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5 p.m.
I willrecognise you, Hon Gifty Kusi. Hon Member, do you remember whatthe Hon Majority Leader said? I would begrateful if you could address the view thathe expressed.
Mr Kpodo 5 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the HonMajority Leader could have saidsomething, but I have had a lot of workingexperience with this kind of institution,and I know the importance of the VicePresident or the -- [Interruption.] Dr A. A. Osei-- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5 p.m.
HonAkoto Osei?
Dr A. A. Osei 5 p.m.
On a point of order. MrSpeaker, I think when you were guidingmy good Friend -- The sense of theHouse, we have passed that. I would liketo remind him that, having spent abouttwo or three hours on that matter, if he isproposing an amendment, I do not have aproblem but I thought the House haddecided that -- and the emphasis by theHon Majority Leader was that this is thegoverning council, as opposed to themanagement team and that is why there isa problem even with the Second Schedule. Mr Speaker, if you read it, the Councilis going to convene an Annual GeneralMeeting (AGM) to elect members of theCouncil who would be appointed now.Does it make sense? Unless we separatethe two, we would run into a problem.
We cannot have the Council being theInstitute. We cannot, and once we haveestablished that -- He should not take usback. Mr Speaker, that is why on this matter,I thought that we had agreed and thesense was that there is a separationbetween the Council. I believe we madean amendment to appoint the Chairperson --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5 p.m.
Thankyou.
Dr A. A. Osei 5 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I got up fora different reason. They agreed that wewould stop at 5.00 o'clock.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5 p.m.
HonAkoto Osei, thank you but you know --
Mr Kpodo 5 p.m.
Mr Speaker --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5 p.m.
Wouldyou not allow me to speak? Let me speak,please. Hon Kpodo, please let me speak. What I am saying is even going to helpyou, that like Galileo showed so manyyears ago, one person could be right andthe whole world could be wrong, becausewhen Galileo said that the world was roundthe whole world at that time said that theworld was flat. So, I am going to allow you to speak.Maybe, you would change our minds.Hon Member, continue.
Mr Kpodo 5 p.m.
Mr Speaker, what I wasdriving at was that Council is a policymaking body that gives direction to theentire institution. The key managers arethe President and the Vice President. In the absence of the President, theVice President takes charge, and in thesekind of situations, even when thePresident is there, the Vice President hasspecific responsibilities to discharge.
If we take him out of a situation wherethey are discussing policy issues, thenwe make him lose the import of policydecisions that are taken at Councilmeetings. That is why I am of the opinionthat he should be a member, in addition tothe Registrar, who is the custodian of allthe --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5 p.m.
HonKpodo, are you sure you were here thelast time?
Mr Kpodo 5 p.m.
Yes, in fact, I evenintroduced the idea of the Registrar beinga Member of the Council. I introduced theidea, so I was here.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5 p.m.
But HonKpodo, you remember that after youintroduced your idea of the Registrar, theconclusion was arrived at that theRegistrar is the Secretary to theInstitution, so he does not have to be amember. But you have re-stated youposition, thank you very much. I saw Hon Kusi on her feet. Hon Kusi?
Mrs Kusi 5 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was going toremind you that we all agreed to close at5.00 o'clock and it is past 5.00 o'clock. MrSpeaker, you are a man of your words.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5 p.m.
Thankyou very much. Hon Kusi, do not draw me into this,because I am a servant of the House. Ifyou say I should sit here till tomorrowmorning, who am I to say otherwise?
Mr Agbesi 5 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Majorityfront bench is also reminding Mr Speakerof our earlier commitment to 5.00 o'clock.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5 p.m.
HonMembers, I believe I have been reminded.Both sides agree that we should adjournat 5.00 o'clock. Hon Members, if we have theopportunity by God's grace to deal withthis matter tomorrow or any other time, Ibelieve when we start clause 4, regardlessof what time it is, we must end clause 4. Today, we would rise at 5.00 o'clock,but I am pleading with you, otherwise, wewould come back and rehash some of thearguments again. Now that we have takenclause 1 out of the way, that is why Iwanted to start with clause 4. Now that we have taken clause 1 outof the way, I am pleading with the HonChairman and the Hon Ranking Memberof the Committee. You have heard thesentiments, try and meet with some of theHon Members who have other views. Tomorrow morning, have a kind ofwinnowing session with them. Call them,meet with them and come to an agreement.Hon Kpodo has strong views, Hon AkotoOsei, Hon Isaac Osei, Hon Yieleh Chireh,Dr Prempeh and Hon Rosemond Abrah,they all have strong views. So, call some of the Hon Members,organise your own small committee withinthe Committee so that when you comehere, you would have argued most ofthese matters already.
Mr Puozaa 5 p.m.
Thank you very much, MrSpeaker. I wish to assure you that wewould meet tomorrow at 9.30 a.m. I wouldinvite those Hon Members that you havesuggested.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5 p.m.
I wouldalso like to thank Hon Members. I havebeen in the House long enough to knowthat sometimes when it comes toConsideration of Bills, people are not tooexcited. But Hon Chairman, I have seenthat the people are very excited about theBill and they are all willing to assist you,which is why they are still Sitting here at5.00 o'clock.
So, on your behalf, I thank them. That brings us to the end of theConsideration Stage for today.
ADJOURNMENT 5 p.m.