Debates of 23 Jul 2019

MR SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:32 a.m.
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:32 a.m.
Mr Speaker 10:32 a.m.
Hon Members, Correction of Votes and Proceedings of Monday, 22nd July, 2019.
Page 1…8
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Mr Speaker 10:32 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member?
Mr A. Ibrahim 10:32 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I was present in the Chamber yesterday, but I have been marked absent with permission.
Mr Speaker 10:32 a.m.
Thank you very much.
Page 9…28
Hon Members, the Votes and Proceedings of Monday, 22nd July, 2019 as corrected is hereby adopted as the true record of proceedings.
Hon Members, we have the Official Report dated Wednesday, 26th June, 2019.
Any corrections therein?
Mr Speaker 10:32 a.m.
Hon Members, item listed 3, Questions.
Question starred 588 in the name of the Hon Dr Zanetor Agyeman- Rawlings -- Could the Hon Minister for Education please take the chair?
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Mr Speaker 10:32 a.m.
Yes, Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:32 a.m.
Mr Speaker, if I may appeal to us to have the order of Business varied to accommodate Statements. The person to ask the first Question is not even in the Chamber, and the Hon Minister himself is also on his way.
Mr Speaker 10:32 a.m.
Hon Majority Leader, your suggestion is that we should take Statements for now?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:32 a.m.
That is so, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker 10:32 a.m.
Hon Members, item listed 4, Statements. We have a Statement in the name of the Hon Member for Kumbungu: On Pro- moting Trade and Investment through Visa Waivers.
Yes, Hon Member?
STATEMENTS 10:42 a.m.
Mr Ras Mubarak (NDC -- Kumbungu) 10:42 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am grateful for your kindness and for the opportunity to make this Statement.
This is a Statement to encourage a conversation about promoting trade and tourism through loosening visa conditions with some of the G-20 countries like Norway, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and others.
Mr Speaker, Government, through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, recently announced a list of visa waivers with some countries in the Caribbean, largely because of our shared history and culture. That I must say, is commendable, especially if we
want to tap into the experiences of our brothers and sisters in the diaspora, particulary those of African descent.
In the year 2013, under President John Mahama, Ghana offered visas- on-arrival to all 54 African Union Member states, making our country one of the easiest to travel to.
Mr Speaker, the practice of loosening visa restrictions amongst countries is not new in diplomatic circles, but the practice seems to have gained momentum in recent times.
In the light of this global competition for a share of a market, many countries tend to promote ease of doing business with measures like visa waivers. In this month alone, Brazil, South Africa, Taiwan, Malaysia, Barbados, United Arab Emirates, and Ukraine have all announced new visa waiver programmes with some selected countries in a move to promote tourism, business and foreign investment.
Visa acquisitions are sometimes a deterrent for tourists and those seeking to establish businesses in such countries and hence most people find the process fairly complicated.
It is easier to argue that we could lose in terms of revenue, millions of
Mr Speaker 10:42 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Ras Mubarak, for this concise and useful Statement.
Hon Okudzeto Ablakwa?
Mr Samuel Okudzeto Ablakwa (NDC -- North Tongu) 10:42 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am most grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this Statement.
In doing so, I commend my respected Hon Colleague, Mr Ras Mubarak, for presenting this very important Statement on visa waiver agreements.
Mr Speaker, visa waiver agree- ments are very significant diplomatic tools which signal the heightening of relations, deepening of friendship and the cementing of bonds between countries. Countries decide to enter into visa waiver agreements to show the world that they are really taking their relations to the next level.
As the Hon Colleague who made the Statement has said, Ghana enjoys
visa waiver agreements with a number of countries such as Indonesia, Cuba and African countries within the African Union (AU) framework. As Hon Ras Mubarak rightly said, former President Mahama declared Ghana a visa free country for AU member countries as a sign of Ghana's commitment to the Pan-African agenda.
Mr Speaker, visa waiver agreements come under various categories; we have those that cover the entire citizenry where people-to- people benefit in both bilateral jurisdictions, and we also have the restricted visa waiver agreements, that is, holders of special passports, the service passports in the case of Ghana or diplomatic passports.
So, though the Hon Member who made the Statement does not specify which category he is pushing for in the case of Saudia Arabia, I would want to believe that he is looking at the general one which will not only apply to the leadership in both countries but to extend to the people as well so that all holders of Ghanaian passports whether ordinary, service or diplomatic passports can enjoy the visa waiver agreement which he has so boldly and commendably spoken for.
Mr Speaker, however, as we deliberate on the significance of visa waiver agreements in promoting tourism and attracting investments, we can also look at other sectors like the education and health sectors. Already, Ghana has become very attractive to not only our West African neighbours or our regional colleagues, but also to the world because of the quality of higher education in Ghana.
I recall that when we were at the Ministry of Education, the National Council for Tertiary Education (NCTE) recorded at least, 6,000 international students from more than 50 jurisdictions who had, as a matter of choice, selected Ghanaian higher education institutions for further studies.
Mr Speaker, the global rankings just came out and Ghanaian universities are doing very well.
For example, the University of Ghana is in the top 20 in Africa. We can leverage on all of this to attract foreign students into our country.
Mr Speaker, in the health sector as well, we know what countries such as India and Singapore have derived from health tourism and this is an area we can explore. The expertise of our medical practitioners is renowned; our tertiary health facilities are also very
Mr Samuel Okudzeto Ablakwa (NDC -- North Tongu) 10:51 a.m.
well respected and we have very competitive pricing as compared to other jurisdictions for certain medical procedures.
Again, the stability, peace and the low crime rate and so on that we enjoy can be leveraged to even attract many more tourists in the health sector.

So I agree with the Hon Member who made the Statement that the apparent losses that we may make from the visa charges, which will have to give way, we can make do in leaps and bounds when these tourists or travellers arrive to take full advantage of what Ghana has to offer. So in the final analysis, we would not really make any losses at all.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude my contribution to the Statement, I urge the Government, specifically the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration that there are a number of these visa waiver agreements which are outstanding and are waiting for ratification. The Supreme Court's recent decision on the Guantanamo Bay Detainees' case makes that clear . It is no longer an ambiguity that article 75 of the 1992 Constitution requires that all of these international agreements must be ratified before they come into effect.

We have quite a number of these visa waiver agreements that have been agreed on through bilateral treaties yet they have been pending for years. Some of them include the Ghana-Columbia Visa Waiver Agreement, the Ghana-India Visa Waiver Agreement, the Ghana- Hungary Visa Waiver Agreement, and recently, the Ghana-Jamaica Visa Waiver Agreement. It does not help our country's image very well when other countries realise that our leaders have signed these visa waiver agreements but did not bring them into effect in good time. Some of these visa waiver agreements have been outstanding for years; some for three, four years and even five years. The one between Ghana and India for example, was signed by the previous Government.

I believe that the time has come for us to see some expedited action for these agreements to be brought to the House for Parliament to ratify them so that our people would benefit fully from these agreements that our leaders went and negotiated on our behalf. That would then serve as an incentive for other countries who would want to enter into same agreements with Ghana, not to think that when they have bought into our proposal and agreed with Ghana, it would not come into effect because of the delays with the ratification of the agreements.

Mr Speaker, with these words, I commend the Hon Member who

made the Statement and I urge our Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration to take it very seriously.

Beyond Saudi Arabia, let us reach out to many other countries that we share a lot in common with; countries that we have good democratic credentials with who want to be opened for business and would want to cooperate with us in many ways in expanding frontiers or friendship of collaboration in business and investment for the betterment of our people.

I thank you very much for this opportunity, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker 10:51 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Okudzeto Ablakwa.
Yes, Hon Member?
Mr Patrick Y. Boamah (NPP -- Okaikwei Central) 10:51 a.m.
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to this Statement.
Visa waivers are bilateral arrangements between countries. Having read especially the last two paragraphs of the Statement from my Hon Colleague, it looks as if it was skewed towards an arrangement he was pushing between Ghana and the Royal Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. In the
next week or so, over 5,000 Ghanaians would be embarking on the Hajj in Saudi Arabia. Each person is being asked to pay about US$4,000 to US$55,000. This is about
GH¢20,000.
Mr Speaker, that would rake in about GH¢100million in terms of visa and other arrangements that the Saudi Arabian Government would seek to benefit from this very important pilgrimage.
There are implications for such bilateral arrangements. Firstly, I expected the Hon Member who made the Statement to have done some cost-benefit analysis because all bilateral treaties have revenue implications.
So, if my Hon Colleague is pushing for such an arrangement, you ought to have also supported this State- ment, especially, when he made mention of revenue losses as one of the reasons most countries shy away from such bilateral arrangements.
Mr Speaker, secondly, on security, a lot of countries would evaluate the security arrangements between the two parties to enable them enter into such an arrangement. The geopolitical arrangements are also a factor that parties consider before entering into such arrangements.
Mr Speaker 10:51 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Member.
Hon Minority Leader?
Mr Haruna Iddrisu (NDC -- Tamale South) 11:02 a.m.
Mr Speaker, let me thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the Statement on promoting trade and investment. I commend the Hon Member who made the Statement, Hon Ras Mubarak, the Hon Member for Kumbungu, for bringing this matter to the fore.
Mr Speaker, President Nana Addo Dankwa Akufo-Addo has announced his policy blueprint of Ghana Beyond Aid. This can only be anchored by increased trade and investment where we no longer would depend on foreign aid, probably, having attained middle income status. It has become very real that donor support to our country has dwindled and would continue to dwindle in the coming years.
Mr Speaker, what the Hon Member who made the Statement is asking for is probably that the Hon Minister for the Interior and Government, for that matter, must come out with a reciprocal visa policy in terms of reciprocating for other countries that would extend same to us to deserve same or better from us. Even though his targeted countries are the Group of twenty (G20) countries of Norway, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and others in order to promote intra and inter African trade, we would need to do something about
how other African countries can enter here. But we should do so within the context of understanding and avoiding a future immigration crisis for our country. When I say future immigration crisis, today, Germany is struggling with the consequence of immigration and its management.
Indeed, I have no hesitation that British Exit (BREXIT), as it is being debated and some decisions taken, is also a consequence of immigration and its management.
Therefore, our immigration policy must be in sync with a reciprocal visa policy. It is not just that Ghana has visa to them, but what would they do in turn for Ghana's generosity to them in that respect? I believe that, for the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) countries, and for African countries, we should be doing more.
Former President Mahama did it for Africa, and President Nana Addo Dankwa Akufo-Addo is moving it towards the Caribbean and others in order to facilitate and deepen trade. But Mr Speaker, while I agree with the Hon Member who made the Statement, in-house we need to do what is right. There are still Ghanaians abroad who struggle to get visa to travel to their own country.

That is not right, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration must be seen being proactive in ensuring that visa processes are quick and simple for those who want to enter our country. First impressions, they say, are lasting impressions. When entering the airport and it takes a longer period -- [Interruption.] It is one of the measures for ease of doing business, how long it takes to process a visa and how long it takes to process and clear goods.

So, once again, I want to commend the Hon Member who made the Statement. We can do better in terms of promoting intra and inter African trade by this visa waiver processes.

Mr Speaker, I note with satisfaction that recently, South Africa announced a reciprocal visa waiver for Ghana. Same can be extended to other countries; one was done for Rwanda.

Mr Speaker, I would conclude with Big Brother Nigeria. A lot can be done between Ghana and Nigeria. Sometimes we open doors and windows for others in pretence. For instance, Ghana Cement (Ghacem) cannot enter Nigeria but Dangote cement is in Ghana; trade and investment and fairness. If we have a major cement giant from Nigeria
Mr Speaker 11:02 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Minority Leader.
Majority leadership, please.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:02 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe the contributions of Hon Members should be adequate. We can take the next Statement.
Mr Speaker 11:02 a.m.
Hon Majority Leader, at this stage we would go back to the Questions. I see the Hon Minister for Education in his seat.
Hon Minister for Education, you may take the appropriate seat so that
we proceed. So we go back to item numbered 3 — Questions.
Question starred 588, Hon Zanetor Agyeman-Rawlings?
Mr Ablakwa 11:02 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I seek your permission to ask the Question on behalf of Hon Zanetor Agyeman- Rawlings. She is unavoidably absent.
Mr Speaker 11:02 a.m.
All right.
ORAL ANSWERS TO 11:02 a.m.
QUESTIONS 11:02 a.m.
MINISTRY OF EDUCATION 11:02 a.m.
Mr Ablakwa (on behalf of Dr Zanetor Agyeman-Rawlings) 11:02 a.m.
asked the Minister for Education when the Mantse Tackie Cluster of Schools Project will be completed.
Minister for Education (Dr Matthew O. Prempeh) 11:02 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the above mentioned project, we are informed, is the construction of a 3-Storey, 18-Unit Classroom Block and a 3-Unit Kindergarten Block with Ancillary facilities being executed by Messrs Delovely Company Limited and Supervised by the Accra Metropolitan Works Department.
The project was initiated by the Accra Metropolitan Assembly under the Local Government Capacity Support Programme with funding from the World Bank Urban Development Grant.
Mr Speaker, the Mantse Tackie Cluster of Schools Project was not awarded or funded by the Ministry and therefore the Ministry has no oversight responsibility over the works within its construction period.
The Ministry will, however, liaise with the Assembly to complete the project and operationalise the School when it is completed.
Mr Ablakwa 11:02 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank the Hon Minister for the Answer.
I am quite conversant, having been at the Ministry of Education, with the fact that education projects commence without recourse to the Ministry of Education. It is not the best. Would the Hon Minister speak to some policy reforms, moving forward, as to how such practices can be stopped?
A school should not be initiated and its construction started without recourse to the Ministry of Education. Is the Hon Minister able to comment on this practice, following from the Answer he has provided? The second paragraph says:
“The project was initiated by the Accra Metropolitan Assembly under the Local Government Capacity Support Programme with funding from the World Bank Urban Development Grant.
Mr Speaker, the Mantse Tackie Cluster of Schools Project was not awarded or funded by the Ministry and therefore the Ministry has no oversight responsibility over the works within its construction period.”
My follow-up question, therefore: is this practice the best and should it continue?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:02 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Member asking the Question keeps shifting the goalposts. He is asking for a comment from the Hon Minister. What does he want? Now, he is calling for the Hon Minister's opinion and he knows that he cannot solicit the opinion of the Hon Minister on such a matter. What does he want?
Mr Ablakwa 11:02 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank the Hon Majority Leader for the opportunity to state exactly what I want. [Laughter.]
Mr Speaker, what I want is a policy statement based on the Hon Minister's Answer.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:02 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Member should be aware that supplementary questions should certainly be predicated on the substantive Question. If I may draw his attention to Order 69:
“As soon as a Question is answered in the House any Member beginning with the Member who asked the Question may, without notice, ask a supplementary Question for the further elucidation of any matter of fact regarding which the answer has been given, but a supplementary Question must not be used to introduce matter not included in the Original Question.”
Mr Speaker, this issue that he is raising is not related to the original Question.
Mr Speaker, accordingly, I would want you to rule that Question out of Order. [Interruption] --
Mr Ablakwa 11:02 a.m.
It is.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:02 a.m.
Let Mr Speaker rule. Mr Speaker, the Hon Member does not get up and insist that it is so. It does not lie in his bosom. I have called on Mr Speaker to rule. Can the Hon Member sit down and let Mr Speaker rule?
Alhaji Muntaka 11:02 a.m.
Mr Speaker, from the Hon Minister's Answer, he said that the project was funded by the World Bank Urban Development Grant, I want to find out whether this fund is still available for the completion of the project.
Mr Speaker 11:02 a.m.
Hon Member, are you asking a fresh Question?
Alhaji Muntaka 11:02 a.m.
Mr Speaker, from the Hon Minister's Answer, he said that the project was funded by the World Bank Urban Development Grant.
Mr Speaker 11:02 a.m.
Hon Member, if you kindly look behind you, Hon Ablakwa has not finished.
Alhaji Muntaka 11:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, my Hon Colleague, Mr Ablakwa, understands what I want to do. The Hon Minister mentioned the World Bank Urban Development Grant as the source of funding for the project; yet, the project has stalled for some period now.
I want to find out from the Hon Minister whether the funds are still available for the completion of the project?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the House recognises that Hon Ablakwa has stood in for Dr Agyeman-Rawlings. He has asked the substantive Question and is asking supplementary questions. Yet, we have the Hon Minority Chief Whip inject himself. Is he by that truncating the rights of Hon Ablakwa? If so, we should know and properly advise ourselves.
Mr Speaker 11:11 a.m.
Hon Ablakwa, rephrase your question with less difficulty.
Mr Ablakwa 11:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I would proceed on the Answer provided by the Hon Minister for Education. In the first paragraph, the Hon Minister states that:
“. . .the above-mentioned project, we are informed, is the construction of a 3-Storey, 18- Unit Classroom Block and a 3- Unit Kindergarten Block with Ancillary facilities being executed by Messrs Delovely Company Limited and Supervised by the Accra Metropolitan Works Department.”
Is the Ministry of Education able to inform this House when this project commenced, since the Hon Minister did not speak to that?
Dr Prempeh 11:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, as I stand here, I am not aware of when the project began, but I could provide the Hon Member with the answer if he so desires.
Mr Ablakwa 11:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, my final question. The last paragraph of the Answer states:
“The Ministry will however liaise with the Assembly to complete the project and operationalise the School when it is completed.”
Could the Hon Minister throw light on what he meant by liaising with the Assembly to complete the project?
Dr Prempeh 11:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the project is awarded to the Urban Development Grant of the Accra Metropolitan Assembly (AMA), which is a distinct legal entity not under the Ministry of Education. So, my civil works team and the AMA Works Department would liaise to facilitate the completion of the project.
Hon Ablakwa did not even indicate whether the project is stalled. He just asked when it would be completed. I do not know the schedule and the project completion date. I have advised my civil works team to liaise with the AMA so that they complete the project as quickly as possible.
Mr Speaker 11:11 a.m.
Hon Muntaka, you can return and proceed with your question. This is actually constituency based, but --[Interruption.]
Alhaji Muntaka 11:11 a.m.
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.
I just wanted to find out whether the World Bank Grant is still available for the completion of the project.
Dr Prempeh 11:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am aware the District Development Grant still persists, but I do not know whether the focus has changed for the completion of the project. I know that there are some facilities still available.
Mr Speaker 11:11 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Minister.
Question numbered 624, which stands in the name of the Hon Member for Ho Central.
Additional Infrastructure for University of Health and Allied
Sciences
Q.624. Mr Benjamin Komla Kpodo asked the Minister for Education what plans the Ministry had for the provision of additional infrastructure for the University of Health and Allied Sciences, Ho.
Dr Prempeh 11:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Ministry is committed to expanding infrastructural facilities in all public tertiary institutions across the country, including that of the University of Health and Allied Sciences, Ho.
The Government of Ghana, through the Ministry of Education, has signed an “Implementation Agree- ment” with the Ministry of Commerce of the People's Republic of China to undertake the China-aided Central Administration and School of Nursing and Midwifery termed “University of Health and Allied Sciences, Ho, phase II Project”.
The phase II Project will be located inside the permanent campus of the University. The total construction area is about 29,200 square metres, including 9,000 metres of the Administrative Office Building, 19,700 square metres of the School of Nursing and Midwifery Building, 500 square metres of duty room and equipment rooms with tables and chairs, computers and projectors, and other supporting facilities as well as teaching aids.
The Project is expected to start in the second quarter of 2020 and will be executed within 38 months.
Mr Speaker, the Ministry through the GETFund has also been making
budgetary allocations in the GETFund Formula for infrastructural projects at the University of Health and Allied Sciences, Ho.
Mr Kpodo 11:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, granted that the university has 11 schools and three institutes and the fact that this Chinese project would add only one, what plans does the Hon Minister have to tack the rest of the schools for which the University has been established?
Dr Prempeh 11:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Government of Ghana strives to make sure that infrastructural facilities are shared and distributed among all tertiary institutions and pre-tertiary institutions as the money becomes available.
In fact, the University of Health and Allied Sciences has benefited from the Government of Ghana hugely. Both the phase I and phase II projects have been provided by the Government for the University.
I can put on record that there are other universities established far before the University of Health and Allied Sciences without any support so far from the Central Government; University of Mines and Technology at Tarkwa and the University in Sunyani are all begging.
So the Government of Ghana would prioritise and appropriately give infrastructural facilities when the money is available; and as any institu- tion so deserves.
Mr Kpodo 11:22 a.m.
Mr Speaker, from the Hon Minister's Answer, he alludes to the Ministry, through the GETFund, and I beg to quote:
“…making budgetary allocations in the GETFund Formula for infrastructural projects at University of Health and Allied Sciences, Ho.”
Mr Speaker, I would want to find out from the Hon Minister, how much is provided through the GETFund Formula annually?
Dr Prempeh 11:22 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I hope that colleagues from other universities would not be on my neck as to why I am doing so much for Ho.
Mr Speaker, I would put on record that we have reactivated the GH¢15 million School of Public Health Project at Hohoe.
Mr Speaker, we have reactivated the GH¢30 million laboratory complex at a permanent campus in Ho.
Mr Speaker 11:22 a.m.
Hon Member, you may ask your third question, if any.
Mr Kpodo 11:22 a.m.
Mr Speaker, programmes like medicine and dentistry are run by the university, but they do not have dedicated structures.
Does the Hon Minister not think that at this pace, it would take an unnecessarily long period for the university to be well-placed to continue with the programmes?
Dr Prempeh 11:22 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not know what the Hon Member means by saying that the university lacks these facilities, even though the programmes are running.
I do not believe that any competent university, managed well, would run programmes without facilities. Therefore, he may let us know of the programmes that are run without facilities, so that the accreditation of such programmes would be called into question.
Mr Speaker 11:22 a.m.
Hon Kpodo, are you able to give a clarification to satisfy the Hon Minister?
Mr Kpodo 11:22 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I said that the Schools of Medicine, Dentistry and Allied Sciences lacked dedicated structures. They do not have the facilities, and that was why I asked him to tell us when those structures would be provided for the university.
Dr Prempeh 11:22 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the University of Ghana Medical School was our first established medical school in the country. Mr Speaker, as we speak, they do not have a dedicated university teaching hospital. They adopted the Korle-Bu Teaching Hospital.
The Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology, which has our second medical school, does not also have a dedicated facility. It adopted the Komfo Anokye Hospital as a teaching hospital.
As we speak, the Ho Hospital has been adopted as the hospital for the University of Health and Allied Sciences.
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Mr Speaker 11:22 a.m.
Hon Member, this is a constituency specific Question. We should therefore rest that matter here.
Hon Minister, thank you very much for attending to the House to answer our Questions. You are respectfully dismissed.

Hon Majority Leader, please, what is happening?
Mr Kyei-Mensah- Bonsu 11:22 a.m.
Mr Speaker, we could take the second Statement, while we wait for the Hon Minister for Transport.
Mr Speaker 11:22 a.m.
Is the Hon Minister for Transport not available?
Mr Kyei-Mensah- Bonsu 11:22 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am making inquiries about where the Hon Minister now is. We could therefore take the second Statement.
Mr Speaker 11:22 a.m.
Very well.
Hon Members, we have a Statement from Hon Okyem Aboagye, the Hon Member for Bantama, on law enforcements.
STATEMENTS 11:22 a.m.
Mr Daniel Okyem Aboagye (NPP -- Bantama) 11:22 a.m.
Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity.
1.Introduction & Challenges
Mr Speaker, in spite of the challenges that Ghana faces with our young and growing democracy such as (1) politicisation of national issues, (2) concentration of power at the centre, (3) increasing monetisation of our politics, (4) corruption, (5) weak law enforcement and (6) other developmental challenges that undermine true democracy, it is important to state that Ghana has chalked many successes and won the praises and admiration of many with our current democratic system of governance -- where the rule of law rules.
2. Some Successes
Mr Speaker, despite the alternation between democratic governance and
Mr Daniel Okyem Aboagye (NPP -- Bantama) 11:22 a.m.


Mr Speaker, it is also important to mention that institutions, such as police service, Bureau of National Investigation, Audit Service, et cetera are the creation of Parliament, and Parliament must therefore be seen as aiding law enforcement, the very act that enhances the work and image of Parliament.

6. Commendation of Citi News Room and the Police:

It is in view of this, Mr Speaker, that I ask for this opportunity to commend Citi Newsroom and the Ghana Police Service in their recent collaborative work in enforcing the Road Traffic Act (RTA), and the Road Traffic Regulation (RTR), which are both Acts of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, the Citi Newsroom reportage of the said traffic violations has generated a lot of public discussions about the fact that certain members of our society, which include lawyers, doctors, teachers, security officials and law-makers, do not respect our laws.

Mr Speaker, while some of these discussions have been objective and constructive, I believe these incidents presents an opportunity to raise the issue of law enforcement in this august House for an open discussion.

Mr Speaker, while I believe in democracy, parliamentary immunities, the supremacy of the law and the fact that no one is above the law and the law must be no respecter of persons, I also believe that Hon Members of Parliament should not be seen to be abusing our privileges in the face of the institutions that enforce them.

Conclusion

Mr Speaker, I would want to conclude by inviting Citi Newsroom and, for that matter, our friends in the media to expand their initiatives to deal with some of the challenges with sanitation, by working with sanitary inspectors in the various Metro- politan Municipal and District Assemblies to educate the public and enhance compliance. Bad news or negative news make headlines, but I believe that a great media work with sanitation will go a long way to bring the needed transformation we all seek to achieve.

To the police, Mr Speaker, and other law enforcement agencies, I want to state that one of our biggest developmental problems in Ghana is not lack of laws or regulations, but poor or weak law enforcement capacities.

To this end, Mr Speaker, I want to entreat the Police Service to sustain their law enforcement efforts,

especially on our roads, to help reduce the more than 2,500 lives that get lost annually from road accidents.

Mr Speaker, while I encourage the police to seize every opportunity for law enforcement collaborations, I want the police itself to do more law enforcement on their own even when the cameras are off, and ensure sustainable and improved law enforcement not only to enhance the work of Parliament, but to ensure peace and security of our people for rapid economic development.

Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity.

Thank you.

11. 32 a. m.
Mr Speaker 11:22 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Member.
Yes, Hon Member?
Mr Samuel Nartey George (NDC -- Ningo-Prampram) 11:22 a.m.
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to the Statement ably made by Hon Daniel Okyem Aboagye.
Mr Speaker, the role of Parliament and its relevance in our democratic
Mr Speaker 11:22 a.m.
Thank you very much.
Yes, Hon Member?
Mr Kwame Anyimadu-Antwi (NPP -- Asante-Akim Central) 11:42 a.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to contribute to the Statement made by my Hon Colleague Member for Bantama.
Mr Speaker, I see in this country that the ruling class generally, is under attack by the youth. The reasons are numerous; there is unemployment and what not. So when it comes to the Executive, the Judiciary and the Legislature, the public is looking at these institutions with an eagle eye.
Mr Speaker, people have rained insults on Hon Members of the Executive, Judiciary and Parliament.

Mr Speaker, to say that Presidents in the past and present have been insulted is an understatement. The traditions and culture of this nation do

not allow such a practice, but this is what the youth practise now. I think that we have a greater responsibility.

The Judiciary was recently under attack, and I am referring to the Anas Aremeyaw Anas issue. In my 23 years of practice as a lawyer, I have never seen this procedure where someone goes to court to testify against another person while he or she has covered his or her face. I have never seen this as part of the jurisprudence of that country; yet, it happened. After the Judiciary was under attack with everyone insulting them. Some were dismissed without cause and others were tried by the same institution.

Mr Speaker, they also insult Parliament. Quite recently, someone mounted the public gallery and shouted “no chamber”, when we were supposed to say something that would move the nation forward. They gave various reasons such as the lack of roads and hospitals, among others. Yes, I agree; but would that money be used for the hospitals, roads and whatnot?

We need to do something about this, and I think that the caution must start from us. I think that we have a privilege; on an Hon Member of Parliament's (MP) way to and from Parliament, he or she cannot be

arrested because of our privilege. It does not however, mean that when an Hon MP is on his or her way to Parliament, he or she cannot commit an offence.

Mr Speaker, we as Hon MPs must realise that we earn such respect and privileges; we do not command them. I do not think that any police officer would see an Hon MP and intentionally want to be disrespectful to the Hon MP when he or she has already introduced himself or herself. Instead, what we see, especially on our roads, is both the Executive and Hon MPs use sirens in their cars to jump queues, among others. Then, the sentiment of the public is actually aroused against Hon MPs.

I commend the police for the exercise they have done. In law, there is a saying that “he who comes to equity, must come with clean hands”. I also want to tell the police that we see them, on the roads, take some papers and other material from people's driving licences, and this must cease.

The police must be apt. When they sit-up to make sure that the law is enforced, we would have a nation that is clean and the ruling class would also be exonerated.

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for this opportunity.
Mr Joseph Dindiok-Kpemka (NPP -- Tempane) 11:42 a.m.
Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the Statement ably made by Hon Daniel Okyem Aboagye.
When I listened carefully to my Hon Brother make the Statement, a lot came to mind. First was the fact that, in trying to deepen our democracy, law enforcement must be at the core of everything. I say this because after all the lofty arguments and contributions we make on the Floor, the very petty things that we consider insignificant are the causes of lack of law enforcement in the country.
For example, we would find people ride motorbikes recklessly without helmets and licences. When some of those people are arrested, we are called and we call the police to let them go. [Interruption.] This happens, and we must not pretend. When people are emboldened to act in such a manner, knowing very well that the next call would release them from trouble, they would continue to perpetuate such acts.
However, we should encourage the law enforcement agencies to ensure that the right things are done. Even if a person calls us to free him or her from such acts, and we let the person know that such acts must not be entertained in our society because we want to get rid of them and build a society based on the rule of law, then we would move forward.
Mr Speaker, sometimes, we would have actors threatening certain security personnel that if their matter is not dropped, they would be transferred. These things happen and then the one who committed the traffic or other offence is emboldened, knowing very well that if he or she commits any other offence, there is always somebody to speak for him or her.
We can continue to debate the issue of law enforcement. It is a fact that in this country, all the laws necessary for us to have a very organised society have been enacted by this House. It is not in dispute that all the beautiful laws have been enacted. What then is the reason we cry about these things every day? It is fundamentally because of the system; we make those laws, but in the course of implementation, the practical realities stare us in the face and then we cut corners. Yet, when
trouble looms or a catastrophe occurs as a result of our own conduct, we bemoan it, forget and move forward in like manner.
Mr Speaker, law enforcement is at the core of every democratic dispensation, and ours is no exception. If we pretend by saying all the lofty things and making all the beautiful quotations, yet fail to enforce the law, we would come back to the same point that the Hon Member espoused.
So my plea is that all of us in authority, be it the Executive, Judiciary or Legislature, must ensure that we assist to get rid from our system, all these things that would contribute negatively to the progress of the implementation of our laws.
Hon Members have stated it already, but let me emphasise this. When matters come out concerning Hon Members, such as in the last two or three weeks where the narrative about Hon Members - People have bastardised us every day and taken us to the cleaners, sometimes without any provocation. That is a fact, and they call us names as well.
Mr Speaker, there is a breakdown of discipline. So the best way forward is for us to speak with one voice that
we were not elected to be insulted. We were elected to legislate and ensure that we contribute our quota to the socio-economic development of our country.
Sometimes, they put the salaries of MPs on WhatsApp, float it around and use those figures to say that we are enjoying ourselves in Parliament. They call us names as well. The very public that we assist every day to pay school fees and whose outdoorings, among others, we attend are the very people who call us names.
Mr Speaker, if we want to win the battle to ensure that there is discipline in our society, it behoves on all of us -- Hon MPs, Hon Ministers and every other person, including the ordinary person on the street. All of us would have to ensure that we comply with the law. When we break the law, we should allow it to bite. Sometimes deterrence is a panacea to most of these problems.
Mr Speaker, on this note, I would like to thank you for the opportunity.
Mr Speaker 11:52 a.m.
Any comments from Hon Leaders?
Yes, Hon First Deputy Speaker?
Mr Speaker 11:52 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon First Deputy Speaker, Shall we proceed further or Hon Leaders would want to make any contributions? If there is no contribution from leadership, then this would end Statements time.
At the Commencement of Public Business, item listed 5 - Presentation of Papers, by the Hon Majority Leader and Minister for Parliamentary Affairs.
PAPERS 11:52 a.m.
-- 11:52 a.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:02 p.m.
Item numbered 5(b); Hon Chairman of the Committee?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:02 p.m.
Mr Speaker, item numbered 5(b) is not ready.
Mr Speaker 12:02 p.m.
Hon Members, item listed 6, Motion. Hon Chairman of the Committee?
Mr Speaker 12:02 p.m.
The Hon First Deputy Speaker will take the Chair. [Pause] - Hon Members, the House will move into a Consideration Stage.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:02 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we ended the Statistics Bill, 2018 at clause 22 yesterday. So, we could begin from clause 23.
Mr Speaker 12:02 p.m.
Hon Members, item listed 9, Statistics Bill, 2018 at the Consideration Stage.
BILLS -- CONSIDERATION 12:02 p.m.
STAGE 12:02 p.m.
  • [Continuation of debate from 22/ 07/2019]
    • Mr Speaker 12:02 p.m.
    Chairman of the Committee?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:02 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clauses 23 and 24, delete.
    MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:11 p.m.
    Hon Chairman of the Committee, you said that we should not designate the persons as Regional Statisticians. [Interruption] --
    Yes, Hon Ranking Member?
    Alhaji I. A. B. Fuseini 12:11 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I agree with the thoughts of
    the Hon Chairman of the Committee. There is only one Government Statistician. He has been defined in the law. All other persons who work with the Government Statistician are staff of the Government Statistician. There is no office created to rival that office. We therefore want to create a monolithic institution and that is why we do not need to create a Regional Statistician so that the issue of jurisdiction might arise.
    Mr Speaker, I agree, that all officers, whether in the Regions or at head office, are officers of the Government Statistician.
    I thank you very much.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:11 p.m.
    Very well, so, the proposed amendment is to delete clauses 23 and 24.
    I will put the Question.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clauses 23 and 24 ordered to be deleted from the Bill.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:12 p.m.
    Hon Members, clause 25.
    Clause 25 -- Collaboration with Government Statistician
    Clauses 25 and 26 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:12 p.m.
    Indeed, it is up to clause 33, so I would probably take them together, unless anybody has any issue with any of them.
    Hon Members, do I have your attention?
    Yes, Hon Majority Leader?
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:12 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am just looking closely at clause 25. There is no advertised amendment. Between clause 25 (1) (a) and (b) —
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:12 p.m.
    Clauses 25 and 26 have been voted on.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:12 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think the conjunction in clause 25(1) (a) and (b) should be a disjunction; that should be ‘or' and not ‘and'.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:12 p.m.
    Hon Chairman, the Hon Majority Leader has proposed that clause 25(1) (a) and (b) should have been ‘or' and not ‘and'.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:12 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, with your permission, I beg to read:
    “An officer of
    (a) a public corporation shall, and
    (b) a partner institution may...”
    Mr Speaker, it is obligatory on the public corporation to collaborate with the Government Statistician, but for a partner institution, most of the non- public — they may collaborate with the Government Statistician in the compilation and collection of data. If it is changed to ‘or' which he has proposed, then it is “either….or.” But I think in the circumstance --
    Mr Joseph Yieleh Chireh 12:12 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think the Hon Majority Leader is right in the sense that, if you look at the construction,
    “An officer of
    (a) a public corporation shall…”
    That officer of the corporation, which is a corporate body ‘shall' but the partnership is different. The two do not have to be combined, so ‘or' will be better in this case. Which means that we can say, “a public corporation shall collaborate with….” or “a partner institution may ...”
    Mr Joseph Yieleh Chireh 12:12 p.m.


    Instead of “and”, “or” will be better in this case. So that they can have a separate connection in terms of being able to do so either as partner institution or a corporate body.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:12 p.m.
    Hon Members, ‘and' or ‘or'. In fact, they refer to two different entities and persons, so to use ‘and' may suggest that we need the two to collaborate. Whereas, one is obligatory, the other is permissive. So, why do we want to put them together?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:12 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if it is the case that the meaning does not come out clearly as constructed, then the issues which have been raised by the Hon Majority Leader could be considered.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:12 p.m.
    Hon Chairman, you are out of order. Hon Yieleh Chireh is a seasoned Member of this House.
    So, the proposed amendment is to delete ‘and' after clause 25(1)(a), substitute ‘or'—
    Mr Kyei- Mensah Bonsu 12:12 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 25(1)(a), substitute ‘or' for ‘and'
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 25 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clauses 26 to 32 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clause 33 -- Restriction on publication
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:12 p.m.
    Yes, Hon Chairman of the Committee?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:12 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 33, subclause (5), delete and insert the following:
    “(5) A member of the Service shall ensure
    (a) the protection of the private life and business secrets of data providers including
    (i) households;
    (ii) companies;
    (iii) public institutions: and
    (iv) other responders;
    (b) the confidentiality of the information provided under paragraph (a); and
    (c)the use of the information provided under paragraph (a) for strictly statistical purposes”.
    Mr Speaker, this new subclause is to strengthen data protection under the law. There are provisions in the Data Protection Act and we tasked the Drafters to bring it into this law, so that there is no infringements on the rights of individuals. So this new subclause 5 strengthens data protec- tion.
    Mr Shaibu Mahama 12:12 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I need further clarification on what “protection of private life and business secrets” mean.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:12 p.m.
    Private life and business secrets?
    Mr S. Mahama 12:12 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker. In the context of the Service, how would they ensure the protection of private life and business secrets?
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:12 p.m.
    Yes Hon Chairman, what do you mean by “private life and business secrets”?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, in a survey, one could be asked about the number of concubines that he has. What this says is that,whatever data so gathered should not be used against the person. So, the person who volunteered such information should not -- [Interruption] --

    Mr Speaker, for instance, when we enter each Session of Parliament, we fill out forms and sometimes we are asked about “the number of children''. Some put down “married with children”, while others state the exact number of children they have. But in a survey, if you are asked by the Service, for example, you might say you have eight children but you might not want others to know about that.

    As a matter of fact, it is said that on the day that a man dies, that is when we will know the number of children he actually has. -- [Laughter] -- So I hope the Hon Member for Daboya/Mankarigu appreciates --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:22 p.m.
    Yes, Hon Member for Daboya/ Mankarigu?
    Mr S. Mahama 12:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Member, who is my very good
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:22 p.m.
    Hon Member, the quotation that?
    Mr S. Mahama 12:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the quotation that, “the day somebody dies” --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:22 p.m.
    Probably, if you took it - yes, Hon Member for Suhum?
    Mr Opare-Ansah 12:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I wonder why my Hon Colleague is asking for the source of this saying. We all know that it is the favourite saying of the Hon First Deputy Speaker. [Laughter] --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:22 p.m.
    Hon Member, you are out of order. However, I acknowledge that in the Asante and Akan parlance, it is a very regular thing. Obarima wu a, na ye hu ne mma dodu), to wit -- the number of a man's children is usually known at the time of death -- [Laughter] -- If you have lived in many Asante towns and villages, you will know that on the day that the man is laid in state, several other children, previously unknown emerge. -- [Laughter]
    Yes, Hon Member for Wa West?
    Mr Chireh 12:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I support the amendment by the Hon Chairman because if you look at the original clause, it is very terse and does not indicate the details. This one fleshes it out because we have passed the Data Protection Act here and we are supposed to be conforming to it religiously. I believe that detailing out things like this will help everybody to be guided.
    Mr Speaker, thank you very much.
    Mr Anyimadu-Antwi 12:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Chairman has already explained the reason behind subclause (a) and thrown more light on the protection of the private life but it also says “business secrets of data providers”.
    Mr Speaker, when we talk about “business secrets”, there are secrets that protect businesses and carry the businesses on and these are things that they cannot actually live without. For the Hon Member, if I may give one example, looking at the product called Coca-Cola or Guinness, the concoction that is called Guinness that is shipped from the original source to all over the world, nobody knows what is used in making Guinness. All they tell us is to use the concoction, add water, put it on fire and after that,
    it becomes Guinness and we drink. The same happens with Coca-Cola. So these are secrets that need to be protected. If they are given out under the Data Protection, we do not have the right to actually use it somewhere. That is what it means when we talk about “secrets of businesses”.
    Mr Agbodza 12:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I wonder why a Government statistical data base organisation would like to know a trade secret to the extent of a chemical composition of a product. What would be the basis of -- I do not think that this --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:22 p.m.
    That is only an example of a secret but you may have a secret which you will share. For example, if you asked them how many employees they engage to do this, they may share it with you just for you to do your statistical analysis, but in other circumstances, they may not want the public to know.
    So, if you come across a secret of a business or even a private individual, you are obliged to keep it confidential. That is what the law is saying.
    Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I agree with the rendition. Unless it is absolutely necessary and in line with the Right to Information Bill, 2018 you
    cannot disclose such information. In my view, however, the formulation is wrong.
    Mr Speaker, it says 12:22 p.m.
    “A member of the Service shall ensure
    (a)the protection of the private life …”
    I do not have a problem with that even though——what is protection of privacy of life? -- [Interruption] -- we are talking about the right to privacy and so, it is a problem. We can ensure the protection of privacy of individuals. That is the first one.
    Mr Speaker, secondly, it says 12:22 p.m.
    “business secrets of data providers including
    (i) households;”
    Mr Speaker, are household data providers?
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:22 p.m.
    Hon Member, I think that it is because you appear to break the two down instead of reading them together.
    Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if you read them --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:22 p.m.
    If you read it like this: “…protection of the private life and business secrets…”, then the “private life and business secrets” — So, it is the “private life secrets and business secrets of the data providers”.
    Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker:
    “protection of the private life and business secrets of data providers”.
    All right; whatever it means.
    “…including
    (i) households”
    So, is he talking about private life and business secrets of data providers including data providers who are households? How can a household or a house be a data provider?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we conduct censuses to count everybody; the census targets households. Households is used in the context of individuals versus firms and so households — here, we have companies which represent firms.
    So, when we say households, it refers to the individuals in the household -- [Interruption] --
    They are data because in a census, when we count the individuals, we also ask them questions of the individuals in the household such as their ages and so on. So, there is household information on individuals in a household. Some of them can be secrets; volunteer that information because the data protection law -- [Interruption] --
    Mr Speaker, for instance, the cause of death could be kept as a secret and so, the family may want to keep it secret. For the purposes of the survey, that information is volunteered. There are so many causes of deaths that are secrets and such information is not volunteered.
    Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I drop my objection. I was looking at data providers in a very narrow context. So, it is data that is provided by the household. Therefore, “data providers” here means data that is provided by households, companies and whatnots.
    Thank you.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:22 p.m.
    All right. So, can I put the Question now? Hon Majority Leader, do you want - otherwise, I am going to put the Question.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am looking at whether we intend to situate this within the ambit of article 18, for instance, which provides for the protection of privacy of homes and other property. In this case, it may be the protection of privacy of the home and businesses, but protection of private life --
    I believe it should rather be protection of privacy of homes and businesses. I think if we do it that way, it would be better.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:32 p.m.
    In this case, the person has volunteered to give you information so that you can compile some statistics. So technically, the privacy has been invaded by himself. For example, when somebody volunteers to give information that his son, daughter, wife or husband has Human Immuno- deficiency Virus (HIV), it is already protected by an Act which provides that a medical officer cannot share that information; but what about the statistician? If we do not protect that one, the statistician would not be bound by any requirement under the Act where a medical officer is required to maintain that secret. That is why in this case you may need to protect that information from being disclosed.
    Mr Chireh 12:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, how you are explaining it to the Hon Majority Leader is important because if we bring “privacy” in here, then we do not even allow some information. It is about a person's private life, but he has offered to give the statistician the information, and the fact that he has given the information does not mean one could disclose it or use it anyhow. As my Hon Colleague also said, it is not intended to convey privacy issues. It is about private life. In that case, if there are other aspects of life that by law are required to be given to the Statistical Service of Ghana then , they are not to abuse it or use it for other purposes other than what they have collected it for.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I was looking at what we have just done for clause 32. Clause 32 provides:
    “The duty of a person to provide a document or information in accordance with this Act shall not affect the non-disclosure provisions of an official secret confidential information in any other enactment.”
    I was getting a bit jittery there because it appears that in another breath, we are suggesting that the officers operating within this Act could do whatever they want. Yet, that is not what is intended. So if we
    Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, having been converted, I would want to try to convert the Hon Majority Leader. Clause 32 has no problem for the purposes of statistics. So this Act would overarch any notion of confidentiality of oath of secrecy or data protection because that information is needed for the purposes of statistics. What clause 32 says is that, one should not exclude — because immediately the Official Secrecy Act is invoked, it would exclude some information from being compiled and it is not good for the country. That is what it is trying to address.
    With clause 33 (5) as amended, for instance, we are told that the momentum among homosexuals have not yet reached a stage where they could force a change in the law. The statistician may be compiling data by taking these information from people about their private lives whether, for instance, they are homosexuals. This law says a person cannot disclose that.
    That does not amount to privacy. It is their way of life and that is their private life. They do not see it as privacy. However, when we take it for the purposes of statistics, we
    cannot disclose it. It is about private life secret and not privacy. When something is about privacy -- [Interruption.] They are doing it in the open, but we are saying that by this law, the Statistical Service should not publish it.
    Mr Agbodza 12:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am convinced about his argument, but the point is that, someone's sexual orientation is about privacy. There is nothing else we can say about it. I am not sure whether we should --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:32 p.m.
    There is a difference between privacy and private life. My sexual preference is my private life, but the privacy of my home is a different matter. We are talking about private life here, and I think we should not confuse the two.
    Yes, Hon Member for Wa West?
    Mr Chireh 12:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Majority Leader was making reference to clause 32. I think he should situate that one and the recently passed Right to Information Bill, where the exceptions were many and people did not like. This is still part of that. I do not think it has anything to do with the new subclause (5). He should not read more than he is referring to. He should just take the amendment as it is for us to pass.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 33 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clause 34 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clause 35 -- Population census
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 35, sectional note above clause 35, delete and insert the following
    “Censuses, surveys and other sources of Data”.
    Mr Speaker, if you go to the clauses that follow, we have censuses, surveys and other data. The section does not relate only to censuses, and so we would want the sectional heading to reflect all that.

    Question put and amendment agreed to.

    Clause 35 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.

    Clause 36 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

    Clause 37 -- Agricultural census
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, before I move the amendment, in this section --
    rose
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:42 p.m.
    Yes, Hon Majority Leader?
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, clause 36 restricts the counting of population and houses to regions and districts. Why can we not include constituencies and settlements? I am saying so because the Constitution, makes it obligatory to have population quota for constituencies and not for districts. So the Electoral Commission, for instance, requires to know the number of people per constituency in order to demarcate the boundaries of constituencies. Why are we limiting it only to districts? I believe we have to include constituencies and settlements.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Majority Leader referred us to the Constitution so could he point out the provision in the Constitution which he was referring to? This is because I would think that — [Pause] --
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, under article 47 of the
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:42 p.m.


    Constitution, the emphasis is on population and article 47(3) provides:

    “The boundaries of each constituency shall be such that the number of inhabitants in the constituency is, as nearly as possible, equal to the population quota.”
    Mr Speaker, the emphasis is on the population in the constituency. It says 12:42 p.m.
    “(4) For the purposes of clause (3) of this article, the number of inhabitants of a constituency may be greater or less than the population quota in order to take account of means of communication …”
    So, Mr Speaker, within the constituency, the demarcation of boundaries is essential for the Electoral Commission.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:42 p.m.
    I would have thought that every constituency is in a district. I am not aware of any constituency that crosses two districts. So once the population census is done -- The counting itself would be done in towns and villages and settlements but we aggregate them into districts. When it comes to constituencies, however, the Electoral Commission has where the lines are.
    So you can pick how many people are in Domenase, Senfi, and Ajamesu and put them together and determine their number and say they form one constituency.
    Anyway, Hon Chairman, what is your response to that?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, referencing article 47, which the Hon Majority Leader read, I think his proposal should be supported. This is because (b) is saying that the census should ensure that the counts of population are provided for each region. So we know the count of the population in the region and also in the district, so that the census would give us the count of the population in each constituency. So, I think we should add “constituency” so that at the end of the census, we know the count for each constituency for the avoidance of doubt.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:42 p.m.
    So, which clause is the proposed amendment to?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, clause 36(b). It says:
    “the counts of the population and housing are provided for each region, district and consti- tuency.”
    Mr Agbodza 12:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I can understand the reason to extend this to constituency but is it not the case that, unlike population census, our electoral area or election marks change so dramatically? In any case, when we are going to conduct every election, we create a new register, which gives us different numbers of people in every constituency either through new registrations or movement of people in and out. So if we extend this to constituencies, would this data actually be valid within a very reasonable time or it would keep changing? I do not have a problem with it, but we should bear in mind that it is not because of the -- [Interruption]
    Mr Opare-Ansah 12:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am inclined to support the argument of the Hon Majority Leader and the Hon Chairman of the Committee.
    Mr Speaker, the argument just proffered by my Hon Colleague across about the dynamic nature of the creation of constituencies is even worse with districts. The last creation of constituencies was way back in 2012. Since then, districts, municipalities and metropolis have been changed twice. First, from 216 to 238; and now from 238 to 260. So if we go by that argument, then we might as well drop the census by districts.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Opare-Ansah 12:52 p.m.
    “Ghana shall be divided into as many constituencies for the purpose of election of members of Parliament as the Electoral Commission may prescribe and each constituency shall be represented by one Member of Parliament.”
    It is not for the purposes of planning. It is for the purposes of constituting Parliament. So in dividing the constituency, they take population census. Article 47(3):
    “The boundaries of each constituency shall be such that the number of inhabitants in the constituency is, as nearly as possible, equal to the population quota.”
    Mr Speaker, that is because we know the population per district. Constituencies do not exist; they come

    into being because we know the population in the districts. That is how the Electoral Commission creates constituencies.

    So we had 170 constituencies; today we have 275. Why? It is because the population has increased and we know the population in the districts. That is the basis for the creation of the constituencies.

    You are putting the cart before the horse. You do not count a constituency -- for instance, Tamale Central is a constituency now. In the next election, it would be Tamale something and Tamale something, because of the population. They had already counted the population in the district.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:52 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, first of all, what is the purpose of an election? We should ask Hon Inusah Fuseini.
    Alhaji I.A.B.Fuseini 12:52 p.m.
    For repre- sentation.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:52 p.m.
    Representation to do what? For development of this country, ultimately.
    Mr Speaker, secondly, why does the Constitution provide that the
    Electoral Commission would re-draw the boundaries of constituencies and not districts? If it is about the districts alone, then what the Electoral Commission should do, for instance, if they come to Accra and the population is about three million, is to tell us that the population quota is 120,000. They just use a ruler to divide Accra into ten parts and say that yes, these are the constituencies. Is that how it is done?
    Some Hon Members 12:52 p.m.
    No!
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:52 p.m.
    Why do you say no? It is no because it depends on the inhabitants in the settlement.
    So Mr Speaker, he must sympathise with his own statement, because he has got it completely off tangent.
    We need the populations in the districts and the constituencies, and even in the towns, but because all settlements are not towns, we just say “the populations in the housing stock in the various settlements”, instead of saying “towns, villages or cities”.
    Mr Speaker, so we should just say that we need the populations in the constituencies and also in the settlements for effective planning and development purposes.
    If we have two contiguous settlements, one needs a school and the other does not. It depends on the population size of that settlement, so even the provision of amenities depends much on population size.
    So we need so for the settlements, we need so for the constituencies, and we need so for the districts, because there are district assemblies. For effective planning purposes, the assemblies require to know the number of people in the districts and regions, and equally so for the nation.
    Mr Speaker, so the former Hon Minister for Roads and Transport should yield, and then we would make progress.
    Alhaji Muntaka 12:52 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, whereas I empathise with Hon Inusah Fuseini, I disagree with him. When the Constitution specifically mentions population in relation to constituency and districts, it is only fair that after every population census, we are able to know how many people are in a constituency.
    I know that with the way they collect the data, they are able to tell community by community. So for example, for Kumasi Metropolitan Assembly or Kumasi, they may give the global population for Kumasi, but
    they would be able to tell that within Kumasi, this is the population in the Asawase Constituency and Municipal Assembly. And within Asawase they could tell the population of Aboabo. But in reporting, they have always restricted themselves to the region and district.
    Mr Speaker, because the Constitution itself in article 47 keeps talking about constituency in relation to population, it is important that we state that. I know that sometimes when we talk about population a lot of people think that perhaps the whole of the Upper East Region is equivalent to Kumasi and its environs.
    Yes, in creating the constituencies they add the geographical location and the size, but in reporting the data, it is important that they record the constituencies so that we all know.
    So for example,we know that Wa West could have a population of 70,000 and a voter population of 20,000, but Asawase has a popula- tion of about 400,000 with a voter population of about 120,000. It is important that they record those things so that as a country we would know.
    I have always argued that when we talk about our Common Fund and we share the money — and for a place like Accra Metropolitan Assembly on
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:52 p.m.
    The amendment to clause 36, you proposed that we add constituency, so it becomes “region, district and constituency”.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:52 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I added settlements as well, because we need to know the number of people in each town or village.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:52 p.m.
    They need to report that? They actually count the settlements to get the other figures, but the reporting is what we are limiting to regions, districts and constituencies.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:02 a.m.
    It is not the reporting. The clause 36 is really referring to how it should be done, that a population and housing census should be taken to ensure that the counts of the population and houses are provided for each region and district.

    And I am saying that we need to add the phrase “constituencies and settlements”. We would need to know the number of people in places such as Asokore Mampong. We would also need to know the number of people in Suame or Breman.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:02 a.m.
    Anyway, that is what they do.
    Yes, Hon Chairman of the Committee?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:02 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would advise the Hon Majority Leader to drop the word “settlement”. The census itself gathers data on settlements. By this amendment, we are saying that they should aggregate and tell us the population in constituencies, districts and regions.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:02 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I know that a quarter of a loaf of bread is better than none, so I would make do with this amendment.
    Maybe, at the appropriate time, it would be further litigated, but for now, I would allow us to add “constituencies.”
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:02 a.m.
    So, what would the new rendition be?
    Clause 36 reads: “A population census or population and housing census…”
    Yes, Hon Chairman of the Constitutional, Legal and Parlia- mentary Affairs Committee?
    Mr Banda 1:02 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, with clause 36(a) and (b), I believe that when we come to (b), the phrase, “each region and district,” ought to be brought down, so that they could sit well with clause 36(a) and (b).
    With where the phrase is located, it appears to me that it only applies to (b), and not (a). I believe that it ought not to be the case. When we take (a), it must read to the end, so that (a) would read “the counts of the population are provided for each region, district, constituencies and settlements”, as proposed. Paragraph (b) could also read: “the counts of population and houses, are provided for each region, district and constituencies.”
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:02 a.m.
    Hon Member, you may propose your amendment.
    Mr Chireh 1:02 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the new amendment would take care of paragraphs (a) and (b). Therefore, the existing sentences provided for them would come down.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:02 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I agree with the Hon Chairman for the Constitutional, Legal and Parlia- mentary Affairs Committee. However, in proposing his further amendment, he went back to mention “settlements”. It is supposed to be captured as: “regions, districts and constituencies.”
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:02 a.m.
    So, in paragraph “a”, it would be captured as: “the counts of the population…” In paragraph “b”, it would be captured as: the counts of population and houses…”
    The concluding phrase, which is: “for each region, district and constituency are provided for”, would then be added to it.
    Mr Opare-Ansah 1:02 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the new amendment would be that; clause 36, paragraph (b), after the word “houses”, delete all the words after it, and in place of those words, insert the new amendment as a conclusion of clause 36.
    So, clause 36 would become: “a population census or population and housing census shall be taken to ensure:
    “(a) The counts of the popula- tion, or (b) the counts of the population and houses…”
    Mr Speaker, we would then come to the conclusion, which reads 1:02 a.m.
    “are provided for each region, districts and constituencies”. The word “settle- ment” would however not come.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:02 a.m.
    Very well.
    Therefore, all those words after the word “houses” are taken down, and it applies to all.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:02 a.m.
    The draftsperson shall ensure that the phrase: “are provided for each region, district and constituency” is properly
    placed, to apply for both the count of population and houses.
    Hon Chairman, you were going to move your amendment.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:02 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, after we changed the heading of the clause, I was going to make the case that in the case of population census, historically, we would recall that we had a population census in 1970. The next one was held in 1984, and we did another one in 2000, and subsequently, 2010.
    We are now making preparation for the next census in 2020. We have therefore made it mandatory in clause 35 that as a country, we should conduct a population census every ten years in the month of March. Therefore, in clause 35, we use the word “shall”.
    In clauses 37 and 38, the Bill says that an agricultural census would be conducted, which would be taken two years after the population census. The economic census would then also take place, three years after the population census.
    Mr Speaker, this would be too much for the country. Censuses are very expensive. As a matter of fact, the 2020 population census is
    estimated to cost GH¢477 million. So, the essence of these amendments here is to change the provision “shall” to “may,” in the clause 37 (1) and (2), which talks about the nation conducting agricultural and an economic censuses.
    Mr Speaker, I wanted to give that background before the subsequent amendments are made.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:02 a.m.
    The word ‘may' means that we may not do so.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:02 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, we have not had an agricultural census in a long time.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:02 a.m.
    Do you not believe that we should insist on that as --
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:02 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, if we put it in the law that we ‘shall' have an agricultural census every two years—
    Mr Speaker, presently, we are making plans to have a referendum in December, and we know how expensive these things are. A census is also to be conducted in March, 2020. In that same year, 2020, the nation's general elections would be conducted in December, and these have financial implications.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:02 a.m.
    If I understand this correctly, it would also be the same thing; ten years at a time. The agricultural census shall be taken by the Service, in collaboration with the Ministry of Agriculture, and it shall be taken two years after the population census.
    So, the first one would be, let us say, 2022 and the next one would be 2032. It is the same thing, once every ten years.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:02 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the other challenge is that there would come a time that we would undertake the population census, the agriculture census and the economic census at the same time. This is because when it says an economic census shall be taken within three years after the population census, in essence, what
    they are saying is that in every three years, they are going to do an agricultural census.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:12 a.m.
    Three years after the population census; so, that would also be every ten years.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:12 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, for the Statistical Service -- and they are here -- they want it as ‘shall'; it has worked for them but looking from the economic view point, these things cost money. You would ask them, when was the last time they did an agricultural census? It is taking forever. --[Interruption]- Yes, that is why this ‘may' is coming because -- [Interruption]- I told you the population and housing census next year is going to cost GH¢477 million.
    Mr Speaker, in some instance, agricultural census could even be more expensive. For an agricultural census, we are counting, for example, the number of cattle, pigs, and poultry in the country, so we are in the—
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:12 a.m.
    Once every ten years and that is too much?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:12 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, we have not done that in a very long time.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:12 a.m.
    No, if we pass this law, from 2020; the next one would be 2022. After that, the next ones would be 2032 and 2042, not every two years. Unless you are proposing to change the wording here, it is still once every ten years.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:12 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, as a matter of fact, if the population census is well done, it should capture some of these other indices. So, that is the more reason we do not want to be doing this, every other two years. That is why we say, ‘may'. “After the population census, two years thereafter, they may conduct an agricultural census.”
    Mr Speaker, even in the case of the population census, it is not in the Constitution that a population census be conducted and that is why there have been times when we have gone fourteen and sixteen years without doing any.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:12 a.m.
    Yes, Hon Member for Keta, let me hear an alternative view.
    Mr Richard Mawuli K. Quashigah 1:12 a.m.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am a bit surprised and taken aback when the Hon Chairman says that because it has not been done in a long time, he does not see the need for it being done every two years after the population census.
    Mr Speaker, the fact that it has not been done in a long time only means that, that is the reason for which we have challenges with the agriculture sector. And it is very pertinent and very important that we know - [Interruption]- Mr Speaker, this unwarranted harassment and heckling from my Hon Colleagues are unfounded. I am speaking to the Bill. What he is talking —
    Mr Opare-Ansah 1:12 a.m.
    On a point of order. Mr Speaker, the Hon Colleague on his feet is talking about being harassed. I can only see him having the floor; I do not know who is harassing him.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:12 a.m.
    The Hon Member for New Juabeng South was making comments into his contribution amounting to harass- ment.
    Yes, Hon Member for Keta?
    Mr Quashigah 1:12 a.m.
    Thank you so much, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Speaker, clearly, my Hon Colleague, the Hon Chairman of the Committee was speaking to clause 37 and in his estimation, agricultural census is not relevant; the reason for which he thinks that it should be changed from ‘shall' to ‘may' which would then mean that we could
    Mr Opare-Ansah 1:12 a.m.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker. I believe the Hon Chairman's position is correct. The Statistical Service, in conducting a census, are the ones who design the kinds of questions to ask. Therefore, depending on the data they would want to capture in that census, they would administer the right questionnaire.
    If after a particular census, two years after, the thinking is that, in the last two years, this census that was conducted, we think we did not get adequate information on agriculture and for that matter, we want to go and specifically do an agricultural census, then, they may do so. I believe that is the argument by the Hon Chairman.
    But if we say that it shall be done, then, there is compulsion there that even if they were able to capture adequate data under the main census, they would still have to conduct an agricultural census after two years because the law says they shall compulsively do so.
    Mr Speaker, that is why I believe that if we relax it and make it ‘may', and there is the need for an agricultural
    census two years after the population census, then, the Service is so empowered to exercise its discretion in carrying out that census. I think we should support the Hon Chairman's amendment and change the ‘shall' to ‘may'.
    Mr Chireh 1:12 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the issue you raised earlier was about whether the agricultural census should be every ten years -- or what is the practice now? How often should we conduct agricultural census? If we know the practice, these two years, the agricultural census may not be the same as population census, which is every ten years.
    Mr Speaker, but if the idea is for us to say every two years after the population census, how often should we conduct it? If it is again waiting for the same ten years after which we would do it, then, as you rightly pointed out, it is important we say that next year, which is 2020, the agricultural census should come off in
    2022.
    Now, if the same Statistical Service is to conduct it and because of that they may want a lapse of two years to be able to do it, that is fine. But how often do we need the agricultural census figures to be able to plan our
    agriculture? Let us get the technical explanation; it could be that every two years, we need to do agricultural census. So, if that is explained, then, it would be better for us to take that decision.
    Dr Anthony Akoto Osei 1:22 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, to fortify the Hon Chairman's argument , if we look at the definition of census, we would notice that it means a statistical operation in which all units of the population of interest are enumerated including agriculture. And then, the census question says, it is determined by the Statistical Service.
    So, if we are doing the population census, and agriculture is of interest they are at liberty to do that. In that case, after two years, they should not need a ‘shall'. So, it depends on them and nothing stops them.

    If we do a ‘shall' and have done the population census properly and done the agricultural questions in there, they are compelled to do it again since it would be a waste of money. It is determined solely by them.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:22 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I agree that a population of interest may include animals, but I am
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:22 a.m.


    not too sure about parcels of land. I think that, practically speaking, more than three years after the last census that we had in 2010 conducted, they were still analysing the figures. So, I think that the two-year period would be too close to the census.

    If we have to have an agricultural census, maybe, three years after would be a reasonable term. However, because the base of the count for agriculture is smaller than the entire population and housing stock census, I would propose that two years after that, if we want to do the economic census, it would be appropriate.

    However, for the agricultural census to come two years after the population and housing census, I believe it would be too much of a burden on the Statistical Department. So I think that we should rather increase it to three years. Whether it should be ‘may' or ‘shall' --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:22 a.m.
    The interpretation offered by the Hon Minister for Monitoring and Evaluation does not - Actually, census means a statistical operation which all units of the population -- We are interested in the population; we are not counting foreigners now even
    though they are part of the population now.
    So the population you have defined as of interest, that is what it means. It does not mean the interest I have. So what is it? Is it my economic or financial interest? No, but the population you are interested in, so that cannot extend to agriculture and other economic activities. So, that definition would not cover agriculture and economic census as is suggested.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:22 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, this idea of censuses being conducted every 10 years is not founded on anything, but it is just by practice and convention. [Interruption] I have the PNDC Law 135 here which says in section 14:
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:22 a.m.
    Hon Member, please address me.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:22 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, section 14 of the Statistical Service Law, 1985 says:
    “The council may direct that a census shall be taken for Ghana, or any part thereof, or any class of residents thereof, and any such direction may specify:
    (a) the dates on or between which the census is taken; and
    (b) The information to be obtained in the census.”
    So, by convention, we have had censuses every 10 years and that is why we have even gone through periods when the 10 years was not complied with. This idea of agricultural and economic census is not even in the existing law. In the existing law, there is no provision --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:22 a.m.
    Hon Chairman, you are leading the discussion on this Bill. You have brought the Bill to the House saying that we should have an agriculture census and an economic census. If you do not consider them important, you may as well propose that they be deleted.
    The suggestion here is that it should be done once every 10 years, except that it should be two years after the population census and then the economic census, three years after the population census. However, you are proposing that instead of making it ‘shall', we should make it ‘may' and that is the argument. As to whether it is convention or not, since you have not proposed to change the 10 years, let us focus on what you want.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:22 a.m.
    As far as I am concerned, agriculture is part of economics, so the two can be done together, unless we think that the agriculture census is too big --
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:22 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the techniques are different.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:22 a.m.
    It is the same set of people applying different techniques to achieve the results that they want.
    Mr Opare-Ansah 1:22 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, earlier, the Hon Minister for Monitoring and Evaluation talked about the meaning of census as a statistical operation in which all units of the population of interest are enumerated. [Interruption] I am not challenging the Speaker but drawing his attention to the definition of population. It means:
    “any set of statistical units, whether they are individuals, legal persons, families or any other type of economic unit.”
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:22 a.m.
    That is how you should interpret the “population of interest”. Which one do you want to interpret?
    Mr Opare-Ansah 1:22 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, if we go to clause 40, on Census questions, it says:
    “The Government Statistician in consultation with the Board shall prescribe the questions to be asked in any census conducted by the Service.”
    The argument was that if in one census, the population of interest, as defined in the meaning of ‘census' in this Bill happens to be the unit, human beings, the number of cattle in the country or number of palm trees on farms, then that is their population of interest and that is what that census questions would be designed to capture.

    Hon Majority Leader, I have read the meaning of population here. I did not misread it and it did not talk about class of people. It says on page 24 of the Bill that:

    “population” means any set of statistical units, whether they are individuals, legal persons, families or any other type of economic unit.”

    Legal persons include corporations and organisations and these are not human beings. If an economic unit happens to be cattle -- [Interruption] Why is cattle not an economic unit? I would yield to the Hon Member for Akuapem South.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:22 a.m.
    Hon Members, can we return to the Bill?
    Yes, Hon Minority Leader?
    Mr Iddrisu 1:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would be brief.
    Mr Speaker, as you guided the Hon Chairman of the Committee, I am sure you were speaking to the Hon Ministers in this House. For us, policy has approved of this Bill and policy has approved of an agricultural and economic census.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Chairman of the Committee has proposed the substitution of ‘shall' with ‘may' in respect of agricultural census. I believe and support that there must be an agricultural census because of the
    contribution of the various sectors of agriculture to the national economy. More importantly, it is even needed in the computation of Gross Domestic Product (GDP). What is the contribution of the agricultural sector -- probably, relative to the services — to GDP? When we talk about structural changes of the Ghanaian economy, we engage in comparative economics to know how much the services sector is doing against the agricultural sector which is the traditional Ghanaian economy.

    The Hon Majority Leader said no, but I am telling him how I would construe it. Fortunately, the presiding Speaker is a lawyer. We would give words their ordinary meaning and not the “Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu's meaning'' [Laughter.] He has learnt interpretation and he knows it. To give words their ordinary meaning, will mean, 10 plus three. So to cure it, if we think two years is too close, we

    could say every three years but we should not add “after the population census'' [Interruption.] Yes, so, that means after every 13 years -- [Interruption.] Even after every 10 years agricultural census is needed before the 10 years. Please [Interruption]. Anyway, this is how I construe it and I think that “after the population census'' may not be necessary -- [Interruption.] Do not put words “after population census”. Just say take two years. A clause can be there. There would be agricultural census after every three years. You want to strengthen the Statistical Service? You are the same people who say that they do not give you better statistics; how would they do it? Mr Speaker, this Bill came with policy.
    Mr O. B. Amoah 1:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the issue is whether it should be ‘may' or ‘shall'. In the existing law, it is easier to be persuaded that it should be ‘may' for several reasons. Section 15 (1) of the PNDC Law 135 talks about Government Statistician giving notice in writing to any person to furnish information based on what the statistician wants in accordance with the First Schedule.
    The First Schedule has listed the kind of information that the Government Statistician may require. It includes population and housing,
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, there are two proposals. One, has to do with the deletion of ‘shall' for ‘may' and for the other one, I would want to suggest that it should rather be ‘'three years'' after the census for agriculture; and then for economic, it should be ‘'two years'' after the agricultural census.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:32 p.m.
    Since we would want to use ‘may', whether it is ‘two' or ‘three' does not make a difference.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we need to determine the time.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:32 p.m.
    We appear to want to leave it to the Statistical Service to determine it, so that is why I said that once ‘may' is used, then whatever time is put there does not matter.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the fact of the matter, as I have related to, is that after the conduct of the population and housing census, they would not be done with
    the analysis of the outcomes in a year. Usually, it takes about two years for them to do that. That is why I say that if we said they might do it in three years, it would be more practical. For the economic census, we would deal with those ones.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:32 p.m.
    Hon Members, please, I would want to stay on my amendment. I would give you space when the House is adjourned to do your “units'' and so forth. The only part is the suggestion that we delete two and insert three.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I spoke to that earlier. For the economic census, I agree with the Hon Majority Leader that it should come two years after the population census, and then the agricultural census three years after.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:32 p.m.
    So, the amendment is that, for clause 37 (1), delete ‘shall' and insert ‘may'. Is that right?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:32 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:32 p.m.
    Hon Chairman of the Committee, you wanted to make some changes to clause 37(2)?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:32 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 37(2), line 1, delete ‘shall' and insert ‘may' and also delete ‘two years' and insert ‘three years'.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would want to propose to the Hon Chairman of the Committee that for those of them who have three years after the census to do the agricultural census, we have three years after the population and housing census to do the agricultural census. They may do it in three years after the census and then another three years for the economic census so that within the 10 year span, there would be activity every three years. I think that is a better arrangement.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:42 p.m.


    Mr Speaker, so, the cycle playing out would be ten years for economic census, ten years for agricultural census and also ten years for the housing and population census.
    rose
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:42 p.m.
    The amendment has been moved. I do not know whether you are proposing further amendments to what we have just amended.
    Yes, Hon Chairman of the Committee?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the amendment the Hon Majority Leader moved is in relation to clause 38, so clause 37 is concluded. But information gathered on economic census cannot wait for that length of time -- [Interruption] -- No, but he is saying that a further three years after agricultural census; that would be six years after the population census. So, let us just maintain it at the two years. In any event, it is the main census. [Interruption] --
    That is actually their space when it comes to inflation, gross domestic product (GDP) and things like that.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:42 p.m.
    Very well, I will listen to the Hon Member for Atwima Nwabiagya.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would like to go by the three-year period because it takes longer to analyse census data. Usually, the first publication comes out after two to three years. To allow another census to begin just two years after the previous census would be too short a period for another census to be conducted.
    Mr Speaker, so, I would agree with the three-year period. In any case, it is just ten years. Whether we organise it in a two-year period or three-year period, the interval would still remain a ten-year period.
    I do not see his problem, so I will agree with the three-year period. Three years for economic census and after three years, the agricultural census could be taken.
    I thank you.
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the argument appears to be that they still analyse after two years. If there is a deficiency, we need to correct it. In the age of modern technology, it should not take two or three years to do the analysis. There is a deficiency
    but six years is too long a time to collect data on economic matters. So, we should stick to what we have. Three years after agricultural census would not be useful information.
    Mr Speaker, they have the capacity to do the analysis within two years. The Board must hold them accountable and if government should resource them well enough, they should be able to do it. In other places, it comes very quickly, so, why can we not adopt best international practices?
    Some Hon Members 1:42 p.m.
    None

    Question put and amendment agreed to.

    Clause 37 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.

    Clause 38 - Economic census
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that clause 38, subclause (1), line 1, delete ‘shall' and insert ‘may'.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 38 (2), line 1, delete ‘shall' and insert ‘may' and
    further delete “after the population census” and delete ‘three' and insert ‘two'.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, just to draw attention that, on the Order Paper, we were supposed to delete “after the population census” but I did not move that one, so, that would remain.
    In the case of the economic census, it is two years after the population census but on the Order Paper, it was advertised to delete it. That is not to be deleted.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:42 p.m.
    No, actually, he originally moved that it should be deleted and we put the Question on that.
    So, now, the Question is delete ‘three' and insert ‘two' and maintain “after the population census”.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 38 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clause 39 -- Other censuses and surveys
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 39 (2) delete. Clause 39 (2) says and with your permission, I quote:
    “Any entity other than the Service that wishes to conduct a census at the national level or in a delimited part of the country, shall submit a census proposal to the Government Statistician for consideration and approval by the Board.”
    Mr Speaker, I do not think one needs a permit from the Statistical Service to conduct his or her own census. If a private organisation, a non-governmental organisation or even an academic research institution wants to conduct a census and the Statistical Service says, they should bring their proposal for the Government Statistician to approve of it, it would be inhibiting -- [Interruption] -- Yes, that is why we are deleting clause 39. [Interruption]
    Does he opposed me?
    Mr Iddrisu 1:42 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, may I respectfully refer you to article 186 (3) of the 1992 Constitution. With your permission, it reads:
    “The Statistical Service Board may prescribe the manner in
    which data may be compiled and kept by any person or authority in Ghana.”

    I read the Constitution.

    Mr Speaker, so, the Hon Chairman of the Committee is seeking to amend that provision. Apart from that Board -- So, it should stay.

    I thank you.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:52 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, further, if we look at clause 26, with your permission, it says:
    “Where a public corporation or partner institution produces statistics and the statistics are considered by the Service to be of acceptable standard, the statistics shall be considered to be official statistics and shall be treated as statistics prepared by the Service”.
    So they need to prescribe the form and “acceptable standards” in one's conduct of a census, to the extent
    that it may be useful to the Service. That is what it means.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:52 p.m.
    Well, are we by this saying that if, for example, the New Patriotic Party (NPP) or the National Democratic Congress (NDC) decides to conduct a census of young people between ages 15 and 16 years in Yagaba/ Kubore Constituency, they need to seek permission?
    So, no private institution can pick any data for private purposes? No, let us analyse this carefully. I might want to count all the 13-year olds in my constituency, and it is for my private use. Do I need permission to count them? Is that not a census for my private use for determining whether I will install a camboo factory at Bekwai or I should install it at Odotobri?
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:52 p.m.
    This is census at the national level. Your constituency is not -- [Interruption.]
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:52 p.m.
    My constituency is a delimited part of the country and so is yours. So, if you decide to count all the 13-year olds in that area, do you need permission to do that?
    Dr Kojo Appiah-Kubi 1:52 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would like to propose that we delete; “or in a delimited area”. This is because that is very dangerous for research work in the country, as well as for the conduct of surveys and even for politicians.
    Mr Speaker, I regularly conduct research surveys in my constituency. With this clause, it would mean that I would always have to submit for approval, whatever data I want to collect in my constituency. I do not think it is appropriate.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:52 p.m.
    If I want to count all the cocoa trees, it is also a census.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:52 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I agree that at the national level, it will be important for such a census to be approved by the Statistical Service. In any case --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:52 p.m.
    Hon Members, having regard to the state of the Business of the House, I direct that the House Sits outside the regular Sitting hours.
    Yes, please, continue.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:52 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, there are several organisations in this
    Mr Quashigah 1:52 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I strongly believe that the framers of our Constitution obviously took a number of things into account before they made the provision that the Statistical Service Board should be informed.
    As much as there is reason in saying that even if one wants to conduct some kind of census in his constituency, it would be necessary for him, as it were, to first send a proposal to the Statistical Service -- [Interruption] -- surveys do not fall within that category. We are talking about census, so, if it is within a small delimited area, will it be required that one sends a proposal? Mr Speaker, yes.
    The argument is that it will become very tedious and lead to feet dragging even in achieving the necessary objective of an Hon Colleague.
    Again, it could also mean that some people would want to conduct some census for an injurious purpose, which may hurt the national interest. Therefore, it may be necessary for -- [Interruption.] Mr Speaker, I am being heckled.
    Mr Speaker, it would be necessary that the Statistical Service Board becomes aware of what form and kind of census that would be carried out in the country. Perhaps, it may be one that could hurt the national interest in the long run, and that is the reason for which it would be necessary for this information to be available to them.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:52 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, first of all, we must admit that a survey that involves some random sampling is not a census; but if we want to conduct a census in your constituencies for our own programme, we need to consult the Statistical Service. It is so because we just went through telling ourselves that the provisions in article 47 provide that the population in the various constituencies should, as much as possible, be equal.
    Now, we know the population quota defined for this country as, let us say, 120,000.Then we go out there and maybe, a band is given that plus or minus 20,000, one qualifies to have
    a constituency. Now, we conduct our own census and say to Ghanaians that the population in the constituency is 200,000, so this one should be divided up into two constituencies.
    Mr Speaker, we require the assistance and indeed, the collaboration of the Statistical Service. Let me give a practical example; in a country in West Africa, some States decided to conduct their own censuses, the reason being that the population in a State is a determinant of the national resource that a state attracts.
    So the States conducted their own population census and came out with outrageous figures because they wanted to draw huge chunks from the national kitty. Then the Statistical Department of that country decided to go into it, and they realised for that year that the total population that had been given by the various States was an over-exaggeration.
    So, we need to be careful and submit to the form prescribed by the Statistical Service. I agree with the provision in the Bill.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:52 p.m.
    Yes, let me listen to the Hon Member for Asante Akim Central before --
    Mr Anyimadu-Antwi 2:02 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, thank you.
    Looking at the wording, already article 186(3) has been cited, but I want to read article 186(2) of the Constitution. It is emphatic:
    “The Government Statistician, under the supervision of the Statistical Service Board, shall be responsible for the collection, compilation, analysis and publication of socio-economic data on Ghana and shall perform such other functions as may be prescribed by or under an Act of Parliament.”
    Mr Speaker, my interpretation is that the Statistical Service, having been given this mandate, shall be responsible. Any other duties given to any other bodies -- I think that we must marry them to actually take their source from the Statistical Service.

    That is why I think this amendment must be dropped.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:02 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Member for Asante Akim Central quoted article 186 (2), which says that the Statistical Service shall collect socio-economic data. So for official socio-economic data, for instance, on inflation or Gross
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:02 p.m.
    Is population data part of socio- economic data?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:02 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, so article 186 (2) talks about socio-economic data.
    Again, in clause 26 of the Bill, the Hon Majority Leader has mentioned census conducted by a regional body in a different jurisdiction. Clause 26 provides that where a public corporation or partner institution produces statistics considered by the Service to be of acceptable standard, it shall be considered to be official and treated as statistics prepared by the Service. So to the extent that the Statistical Service does not consider it to be of acceptable standard, whether one does his or her census and publishes it or not, nobody cares about it. However, to restrict individuals from conducting their own censuses for private use, I think it would infringe on the rights of a number of people.
    Mr Iddrisu 2:02 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I oppose to the amendment proposed by the Hon Chairman. As the Hon Member for Asante Akim Central indicated, clause 39 (2) reads:
    “Any entity other than the Service that wishes to conduct a census at the national level or in a delimited part of the country, shall submit a census proposal to the Government Statis- tician...”
    Mr Speaker, this country must have controls. One just cannot come into the country to conduct such a major activity without the Government Statistician being aware of what he is doing. The person's findings could be complementary to the work of the Government statistician; the reason one should —
    Mr Speaker, secondly, it is for quality control. Currently in the United States of America (USA), there is debate about a census regarding citizenship. The Executive has its posture; but the Judiciary says no, they should not toe that line but stay away from this. In Ghana, we want the Statistical Service to play that role. If one would want to do a census at the national level -- They did not use “data” or “survey”.
    When one does things in one's constituency privately, one is not conducting a census at the national level or the delimited level.
    Mr Speaker, I have quoted article 186(3) to buttress my point. I still support it, and I think that it should stay because there must be controls
    in this country. One cannot just go into any country and say one would want to do a statistical survey without recourse to the Ghana Statistical Service.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:02 p.m.
    Why does one have to go to any country? You would have to be in the country.
    Mr Iddrisu 2:02 p.m.
    Alright, then advise him.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:02 p.m.
    I have still not been answered. If the definition of “census” means a statistical operation in which all units of the population of interest are enumerated -- [Interruption.]
    “Statistical operation” is defined, so let us go there. It means an action taken within the framework of a national statistical programme by the national statistics office and other organisations of the national statistics system.
    So, if I decide to count the number of houses at Twafo, within Bekwai and not the entire Bekwai, should I write to them before I count that? [Interruption.] That is the point. Once I do it for my private purpose and do not cite it as official statistics, I should not have a problem with anybody. But if I intend to use it for official purposes, then it is appropriate
    Mr O. B. Amoah 2:02 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, that cannot be a census as defined in the Bill and by other aspects. If you would want to know how many persons are below 18 years of the female species and you find a way of doing it, you could say that, for instance, in Bekwai you managed to get a few people to find out and they were about this number. It is data that you are collecting and keeping; but you cannot tell me it is a census under the law because the law has defined ‘census' and gone ahead to define the other aspects of it, statistical information and everything. If you
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:02 p.m.
    I think ‘enumeration' is also defined.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:02 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, as a matter of fact, if you go to page 16 of today's Order Paper, you would see a new clause that would be added; administrative data, which reads that:
    “The Government Statistician shall prescribe the form and manner in which administrative data is collected and submitted to the Service …”.

    There is an existing law, the Provisional National Defence Council (PNDC) Law (135), which has no such provision. So what is the harm that is caused that this one seeks to cure? If we are not careful, a lot of

    academic research could be inhibited. So I think we should just --

    Mr Speaker, as a matter of fact, this was the position the Committee reached, that clause 39(2) be deleted.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:02 p.m.
    Yes, Hon Chairman of the Committee on Constitutional, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs?
    Mr Banda 2:12 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think we should look at the issue of the deletion from two perspectives or angles. The first issue has to do with whether if an entity wants to conduct a national survey, that entity must seek an approval.

    My answer would be yes in the sense that national census is of critical national importance, and a situation ought to be created where the authority that is mandated to conduct censuses would come out with data, and an entity would also conduct a census and come out with a different data.

    Mr Speaker, then we would create a situation where we would have two conflicting data. Which one should we consider as official?

    Mr Speaker, secondly, the way the language has been crafted, it says, “an

    entity”. It means that it does not make an exception to anybody at all. Whether that entity is within this country or outside the jurisdiction, to the extent that it says ‘entity', simpliciter, it means that anybody at all could just get up and do a national survey.

    Mr Speaker, I think that ought not to be entertained. If an entity wants to do a national survey, they must seek approval from the established authority.

    Mr Speaker, the other side of the issue, which I do not agree with, is where it is also proposed that if an entity wants to conduct a survey in a small area, they have to seek approval from the Statistical Service. I think that it would be too tedious and laborious. If, for instance, in my Constituency, Offinso South, I want to count the number of houses for developmental or informational purposes, I do not think that has to bring me to Accra to seek an approval before I can do that.

    So, Mr Speaker, I think that we should try and look at the issue from two perspectives. If it has to do with a national census, then I think that, for security and other related reasons, an approval has to be sought for; but if it has to do with just a small area, then

    I do not think that approval has to be sought for.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:12 p.m.
    So, Hon Chairman, would you be satisfied if we deleted “or in a delimited part of the country”? So that instead of dropping all --
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:12 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I have never heard of a census conducted by an entity other than the Statistical Service. So to all intents and purposes, a national census would be conducted by the Statistical Service. If we look at the definition of ‘census' as read out variously, we are looking at all units of a population of interest. Then it means we could count the number of houses in Ahenema Kokoben, for instance, and that would be a census because the population of interest would be houses.
    Now, if we do that in a delimited part of a country, then why would we want to clear that with the Government Statistician? So, if we take out “delimited part”, for a national census, if we are minded to do one, then it should be cleared with the Government Statistician with approval from the Board.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:12 p.m.
    I think that is satisfactory.
    Mr Quashigah 2:12 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if we take out ‘delimited', it still does not solve the problem.
    As you earlier said, if you count houses in your constituency and claim that the houses are of a number which is in opposition to what the Statistical Service said, that obviously would create a problem. That discredits --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:12 p.m.
    Why should that be a problem if the evidence is true?
    Mr Quashigah 2:12 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we have had situations in this country where the Ghana Statistical Service came out with data, but some other persons challenged the data that they brought out. We even debated issues in this Chamber in that direction.
    Not too long ago, a group talked about three million jobs lost, and we tried to rely on that information. It was challenged that it was not in consonance with what the Statistical Service had given us. To avoid such challenges and problems, I think that it would just be proper we go by what the law says in the Constitution.
    Other than that, in future, we would have challenges with people discrediting the Statistical Service and giving out their own figures. If one conducts a survey in an area for
    personal consumption, it could be kept to oneself. It cannot even be published on the worldwide web. If that is done, it would create serious problems because it would be at conflict with that of the Statistical Service.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:12 p.m.
    Whether I sought permission or not from them, if I count and say that at Bekwai, the houses I have counted were 5,000 but the Statistical Service said that it was 3,003 and that their figure is not correct, what would happen?
    Mr Iddrisu 2:12 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, repeatedly, even in this House, I have heard Prof. Mike Oquaye say, “quote authoritatively”. If we want to quote on any matter relative to statistics, the Constitution says that we must rely on our own Statistical Service; nothing more. Quality control - our own Statistical Service. Census - our own Statistical Service.
    Mr Speaker, let us not open up this country such that anybody at any day would come in and say that he would conduct a census; provide his own data -- Our own institution responsible for statistics would not be aware, and we would have to challenge and contradict them. It is not necessary.
    Mr Speaker, control everywhere is necessary. We are not saying that
    academic institutions cannot conduct surveys; they can. They can look for other sources of data. The words here are:
    “census of a national character or delimited within a certain area of the country”.
    Mr Speaker, how come that other Boards are not mentioned in the Constitution? The Constitution imposes an onerous responsibility on the Statistical Service. That is why it mentions its Board.
    So Mr Speaker, let us strengthen our own institution. We do not have a problem with what the Hon Chairman is contemplating, and the one you used for the Bekwai example. But let our Statistical Service know that this institution is in this country for the purpose of statistics.
    As I have said, their data may even be relevant to our own Statistical Service. It may wake them up to do a deeper study and analysis of the issue; but to not know at all, in my view, is problematic.
    At this juncture, we have had enough of the debate on this, and you may want to put the Question, but we want to stand opposed to this particular clause and the Hon Chairman --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:12 p.m.
    I would listen to the Hon Chairman, then I would put the Question.
    Hon Chairman, your amendment is opposed.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:12 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am being intimidated to drop that amendment, but there is a compromise. The compromised position is to delete “at the national level or in a delimited part of the country”, so that clause 39(2) would read:
    “Any entity other than the Service that wishes to conduct a census shall submit a census proposal to the Government Statistician for consideration and approval by the Board”.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr Banda 2:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, just a minor drafting correction.

    Instead of ‘any', I want to propose the deletion of ‘any' and the insertion of ‘an'.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:22 p.m.
    I will direct the draftpersons.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, it is ‘may' because of where we are coming from. If we read from clause 36, we would get it. We have population, agricultural and economic censues. That is why this says that the Service may conduct other censuses as directed by the Board.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:22 p.m.
    This is because that should be from the Constitution, it is the Board that has the power to direct. So the Service works with the instructions of the Board.
    Clause 39 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clause 40 -- Census questions
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 40 — delete
    The clause says:
    “The government statistician in consultation with the Board shall prescribe the questions to be asked in any census conducted by the Service”.
    Mr Speaker, this need not be legislated. It is implied in the performance of the functions of the Board.
    Mr Iddrisu 2:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I disagree with the Hon Chairman. When we are doing legislation we must have the future in mind.
    As a country, tomorrow, we may need to ask a particular census question, which by policy could be determined by an Hon Minster for Finance or an Hon Minister for Evaluation, but we should send it to the Board to look at it.
    Then when we come to clause 41, we should delete that one. This is because travelling further, they have
    even said that the census questions should be gazetted. Census questions are an important aspect of the census business. I do not think that we should delete it.
    Rather, it should read that: “the Government Statistician shall determine or prescribe the questions to be asked in consultation with the Board”. ‘Shall' because of article 186 (2). We are not just passing an Act. The Constitution has made a provision and defined a role for this particular Board.
    So Mr Speaker, we should leave clause 40 and clause 41. Census questions could arise at any time. For instance, housing deficit. Maybe, relative to it, we want our contribution to Sustainable Development Goals on sanitation, and we need a certain data. We could pose a question.
    So we should not delete clauses 40 and 41. They are relevant to this Bill in my view.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, yesterday, I walked us through the construct of the various constitutional creatures, and I said that for the National Commission for Civil Education, the functions are defined by the Constitution for the Commission. For the Electoral
    Commission, the functions are defined, except in this case.
    Here, it is not even for the Service. It is for the Government Statistician. That is the distinction. It does not even mention the Service in the Constitution. It says the Government Statistician.
    So Mr Speaker, I believe that the attempt by the Hon Chairman to delete clause 40 is completely misplaced, and we must go back to reinstate the original provision so that we make progress.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:22 p.m.
    Hon Chairman, the question I want you to answer is, if we do not put this here, can anybody else set the question to be asked?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think that was the reason why we felt this should not find space in the law. In any event, clause 41 says that the questions would be gazetted, so -- [Interruptions.] Mr Speaker, there is a gang up. [Laughter.]
    I abandon the amendment.

    Clause 40 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 41 -- lines 2 and 3, delete “thirty days after consultation with the Board and the stakeholders” and insert “sixty days before the commencement of a census”.
    Mr Speaker, we want to give sufficient time for publication of the questions of the census before the commencement of the census. Earlier, what was in the Bill said, “not later than thirty says after consultation with the Board and stakeholders”.
    Having consulted the Board and stakeholders, the census might not necessarily take place immediately. So this one sets the limit; “sixty days before the commencement of the census”.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:22 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Chairman indicates that in the year of the census, it should hold in March.
    If we say that after the consultation it requires 60 days, it would be too long, given the beginning of the year
    and when he is saying the census should hold. Sixty days into the year would be too long, so I would plead with him to give consideration to that.
    Mr Iddrisu 2:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I agree with the Hon Majority Leader that even with clause 41, the questions to be used in a census shall be published in the Gazette by the Government Statistician not later than 30 days. The clause should even end there. “After consultation with the Board and stakeholders”, originally when we came, we did not even add stakeholders.
    We are now introducing stake- holder consultation. We just said that the Board would determine --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:32 p.m.
    Hon Member, that has been proposed to be deleted.
    Mr Iddrisu 2:32 p.m.
    Therefore, I share in the Hon Majority Leader's view that
    -- 2:32 p.m.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, in that case, we would make it 30 days, but before the commencement of a census.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:32 p.m.
    Very well.
    Mr Chireh 2:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Majority Leader said that we should stop after -- [Interruption] --
    It is good that the Hon Majority Leader has agreed with him because if we look at it, the consultation was after.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:32 p.m.
    Hon Member, look at the amendment proposed. It is there as 60 days before commencement.
    Mr Chireh 2:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I have seen the amendment. I am however saying that the Hon Majority Leader said that we should stop at some point, but consultations would have to be done before we even decide on the question, not after.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 41 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:32 p.m.
    Hon Majority Leader, I would want to bring the Consideration Stage of this Bill to a close for today.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if it does not have to do with your private life, then I would plead that we continue up to clause 44. This is because we had that arrangement with you.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:32 p.m.
    Hon Majority Leader, it is 2. 35p. m., but we also have other Business to do on the Order Paper Addendum .
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we would not do what is on the Order Paper Addendum . We would suspend that and do it tomorrow.
    Mr Speaker, tomorrow, we indicated at the very outset that we would begin in earnest, the Consideration of the University of Technology and Applied Sciences Bill, 2018.
    I would therefore plead with us, to continue up to clause 44. It would not take more than ten minutes.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:32 p.m.
    Yes, Hon Minority Leader?
    Mr Iddrisu 2:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if the Hon Majority Leader would be persuaded, I would want us to adjourn. I have indicated to him that the Statistical Service Bill is considered as a national issue, and so both Sides would have to do it together.
    I am however compelled by necessity to allow Hon Members on my Side of the House to travel back home, to go through a legitimate democratic exercise, which determines their future. Many of them would not be here tomorrow, but he has our word; we would see him through, and these Bills would be passed. So the Hon Majority Leader should not insist.
    Mr Speaker, if you want guidance, the Hon Majority Leader should guide you. He should make us adjourn, come back, and do it properly. This is because on “funds of the Service”, which is the next clause, I intend to lead a debate on it, that the policy people should go back and find a sustainable source of financing for the Statistical Service, if possible. This approval from Parliament would not make it functional, effective and efficient.
    The debate on it may be longer than what the Hon Majority Leader anticipates. I would therefore be grateful if we could graciously end here.
    It is difficult for Hon Members on my Side of the House. Assuming, for instance, the Hon Yieleh Chireh has to go to Wa, he has to start now. I have kept him because he knows these processes better than I do; I rely on his expertise. I would therefore want the Hon Majority Leader to adjourn the House.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, this is a complete betrayal of trust. The Hon Minority Leader and I agreed that we should do it up to clause 44. Now, he gets up and punches the balloon.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:32 p.m.
    He probably did not anticipate that we would spend so much time on ‘shall' or ‘may'.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the problem is that he is signalling that he may not even be here tomorrow. Therefore while he is here, if we spend ten minutes to do up to clause 44, I thought it would be a better option. We could do up to clause 44 and leave.
    The greater danger is they not being around to --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:32 p.m.
    Hon Members, clause 42.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:32 p.m.
    Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.
    Clause 42 -- Funds of the Service.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 42, paragraph (b), at end, add “including fees and charges”.
    Mr Speaker, the new rendition of clause 42 (b) would read 2:32 p.m.
    “internally generated funds, including fees and charges.”
    Mr Iddrisu 2:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I agree, but would we allow them to retain some of the “fees and charges”?
    Mr Speaker, the problem in Ghana is that the Statistical Service is underfunded. If the Hon Chairman may go into his own Report presented during the Second Reading of the Bill, he shared some numbers with us. Even as we speak today, the Statistical Service require about 400 million to undertake an activity, but Government has only released about 36 million or less. So we should find a way to adequately finance the Statistical Service.
    Mr Speaker, in the case of the Hon Minister for Monitoring and Evalua-
    tion for instance, how much does he receive out of the one per cent of the annual budget amount? We could dedicate it to an important institution like this, so that they do not operate at the vagaries and the pleasure of the Hon Minister for Finance.
    When such funds are dedicated to them, during the conduct of the census, they know that such a fund would come from this source to be able to help them undertake the exercise.
    I agree with the amendment of the Hon Chairman, except that as I have said, this is a question policy, and so Government must look outside the box.
    Every institution that is funded by the approval from Parliament or the Consolidated Fund struggles like a woman in labour. With respect to fees and charges, we should give them a certain amount of retention, so that when they charge, they would know that they could keep some of it for their purposes.
    Dr A. A. Osei 2:32 p.m.
    The Hon Minority Leader, I believe, is making a general proposition that applies to almost all institutions, including Parliament. At this point, we could not make a policy that they should perhaps dedicate one
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:32 p.m.
    Hon Chairman, I believe it is not necessary to --
    Very well. So you may drop the amendment. Are you going to say that it is necessary? If not, then I would put the Question.
    [Interruptions] --
    Mr Iddrisu 2:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I quoted from the Hon Chairman's Committee Report. I do not say that we should resolve it here. That is why I threw it back to the people responsible for policy.
    In the Report --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:32 p.m.
    Thank you, Hon Minority Leader. For
    now, we should move on and save time.
    Mr Iddrisu 2:32 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would just want to quote the numbers for the records. It says the Government Statistical Service stated that a total amount of GH¢477 million has been budgeted for the 2020 population census”.
    At the end of May, the Service had only received GH¢16.9 million. This amount is woefully inadequate to even initiate preparatory work towards the census exercise. I am therefore saying that we would need to build a credible Statistical Service. We should look at how we could adequately fund them. [Interruptions] --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:42 a.m.
    Yes, Hon Chairman?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:42 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 42, paragraph (d), delete
    Mr Chireh 2:42 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, if we delete subclause (d), then what the Hon Minority Leader was saying would be lost completely because any other moneys that are provided by the —
    Dr A. A. Osei 2:42 a.m.
    No, The Hon Minister for Finance does not have the authority to give anybody money. The moneys are approved by Parliament and that is why it covers it all.
    Mr Chireh 2:42 a.m.
    No, you do not get the point. The Hon Minister for Finance has money, grants and other things. Sometimes, they capture all in the Budget. [Interruption.]
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:42 a.m.
    Well, let me listen to him.
    Mr Chireh 2:42 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I say that -- [Interruption] --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:42 a.m.
    Hon Yieleh Chireh, please, address me.
    Mr Chireh 2:42 a.m.
    The Hon Minister for Finance could determine what to do to give them money. [Interruption.] The Hon Minister for Finance knows that he cannot spend money without approval from Parliament so -- [Interruption] --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:42 a.m.
    Hon Members, I would adjourn the House if you are going to spend time on matters which we have general agreement over. Any other moneys that are provided by the Hon Minister, we have long ago approved in this House that the Hon Minister for Finance does not have that power.
    We have already provided for moneys approved by Parliament and that is sufficient.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 42 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:42 a.m.
    Clause 43?
    Clause 43 -- Accounts and audit
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:42 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 43, delete and insert the following:
    “Accounts and audit
    43. (1) The Service shall keep books of accounts and proper records in such form as the Auditor-General shall approve.
    (2) The Service shall submit the accounts of the Service to the Auditor-General for audit not later than two months after the end of each financial year in accordance with section 15 of the Public Financial Management Act, 2016 (Act
    921).

    (3)The Auditor-General shall within six months after the end of the immediately preceding financial year, audit the account of the Service and forward a copy of the Report to the Minister and the Service.

    (4) The financial year of the Service is the same as the financial year of Government.”

    Mr Speaker, this is the rendition adopted in recent legislations passed by the House.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:42 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Chairman is saying that in recent times we have adopted a new structure for this, but this is not the entire complement of it. But let us leave it to the draftpersons because we have adopted the standard of capturing the accounts and audit. They would look at it so let us leave it to the draftpersons.
    Mr Iddrisu 2:42 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, while I agree that you may put the Question and direct the drafters to improve it, in clause 43(2):
    “The Board shall submit the accounts of the Service to the
    Auditor-General for audit at the end of the financial year”.
    There is normally a time period so we should also be guided by that. We should respect what the Constitution provides for. Even as the drafters are guided to improve it, it should not just be submission; it should be submitted within the stipulated Constitutional period.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:42 a.m.
    The draftpersons are directed to redraft it to be in consonance with the approved draft text of law making in recent times.
    Clause 43 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:42 a.m.
    Clause 44?
    Clause 44 -- Annual Report and other reports
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:42 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 44, subclause (2), delete and insert the following:
    “(2) The Annual Report shall include
    (a) the Report of the Auditor- General; and
    (b) any other information that may be required by the Minister in conformity with the Public Financial Management Act, 2016 (Act 921) or that may be relevant to enhance transparency and accountability.”
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 44 as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:42 a.m.
    Hon Members, that brings us to the end of Consideration Stage of the Statistics Bill, 2018 for today.
    Hon Majority Leader, did you say we are not taking the Addendum Order Paper today?
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:42 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, we would do it tomorrow.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:42 a.m.
    Very well. In that case, I would adjourn the House.
    ADJOURNMENT 2:42 a.m.
  • The House was adjourned at 2.49 p.m. till Wednesday, 24th July, 2019 at 10.00 a.m.