Debates of 26 Oct 2020

MR SPEAKER
PRAYERS 11:41 a.m.
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 11:41 a.m.
Mr Speaker 11:41 a.m.
Hon Members, Correction of the Votes and Proceedings of Friday, 23rd October,
2020.
Mr Speaker 11:41 a.m.
Hon Members, item listed 3. There being no Statements, we will move on to the commencement of Public Business.
Item listed 4 -- Presentation of Papers. The following Papers are to be presented. Item 4(a) -- Chairman of the Finance Committee?
PAPERS 11:41 a.m.
Mr Speaker 11:41 a.m.
Item numbered 4(b) (i) -- Chairman of the Committee on Lands and Forestry?
Mr Moses Anim 11:41 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I humbly ask for your leave and crave the indulgence of Hon Colleagues to allow Hon Kennedy Nyarko Osei to lay the Papers on behalf of the Hon Chairman of the Committee.
Mr Speaker 11:41 a.m.
Hon Member, you may please proceed.
By Mr Kennedy Nyarko Osei on behalf of (the Chairman of the Committee) --
(i) Report of the Committee on Lands and Forestry on the Annual Report of the Forestry Commission for the year
2015.
(ii)Report of the Committee on Lands and Forestry on the Annual Report of the Lands Commission for the Year
2016.
(iii) Report of the Committee on Lands and Forestry on the Budget Performance Report i n Respect of the M inistry of L ands and N atural Resources for the period January to December, 2019.
Mr Speaker 11:41 a.m.
Item numbered 4(c) -- Chairman of the Committee on Constitutional, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
Mr Anim 11:41 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Paper captured as item 4(c) is not ready and so also is the Motion numbered 5 on the Order Paper. By your leave, we may move to the Motion numbered 6.
Mr Speaker 11:41 a.m.
Item numbered 6 - Chairman of the Finance Committee?
MOTIONS 11:41 a.m.
Chairman of the Committee (Dr Mark Assibey-Yeboah) 11:41 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that this honourable House adopts the Report of the Finance Committee on the Financing Agreement between the Government of the Republic of Ghana (represented by the Ministry of Finance) and the International Development Association (IDA) for an amount equivalent to one hundred and twenty-five million United States dollars (US$125,000,000.00) as additional financing for the Greater Accra Metropolitan Area Sanitation and Water Project (GSWP).
Mr Speaker, in so doing, I present your Committee's Report.
1.0 Introduction
The Financing Agreement between the Government of the Republic of Ghana (represented by the Ministry of Finance) and the International Development Association (IDA) for an amount equivalent to one hundred and twenty five million United States dollars (US$125,000,000.00) as
Chairman of the Committee (Dr Mark Assibey-Yeboah) 11:41 a.m.


Health Organisation (WHO)/United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) Joint Monitoring Programme Report 2017, the proportion of people in Ghana using improved sanitation facilities is only 15%, making the country one of the lowest-performing countries in the world.

To provide a comprehensive solution to the sanitation and water situation, Government among other interventions initiated the GAMA Sanitation and Water Project valued at US$150 million. The project, which is funded by the World Bank Group, is aimed at providing improved sanitation and water facilities with

focus on low-income communities of the Metropolis. The project became effective in 2014 and is expected to close in December, 2020.

3.1 Purpose of the Loan

The objective of the Credit Facility is to secure additional financing for the implementation of the Greater Accra Metropolitan Area Sanitation and water Project (GSWP).

4.0 Terms and Conditions of the Loan

The terms and conditions of the facility are as presented in the table below:

5.0 Project Interventions

The major interventions being provided under the project include Household Toilets and School Sanitation Facilities, Improvement and Expansion of the Water Distribution Network, improvement and expansion of Wastewater and Faecal Sludge Collection, Transportation and Treatment; and Institutional Strengthening.

6.0 Observations

6.1 Alignment of Project with Government Policy

The Committee observed that the project is consistent with the Coordinated Programme of Economic and Social Development Policies (CPESDP) 2017 -2024. The pro- posed interventions, are fully aligned with Government's objective of improving access to water and sanitation services for all, through improved water production and distribution, scaling up investments in the sanitation sector, establishing a National Sanitation Fund and implementing the 3 Toilet For All 3 and 3 Water For All 3 programmes under the Infrastructure for Poverty Eradication Programme (IPEP) among

other interventions, all in line with Sustainable Development Goal 6.

6.2 Key Achievements

Key achievements of the original project as of July 2020 include the following:

Inclusive and affordable household toilets: Provision of over 27,000 household toilets exceeding the target of 19,100, which is benefiting about 218,000 people.

Provision of Water Supply to low-income communities: The project laid about 281 kms of water pipelines, 10,200 new connections and 114 standpipes providing access to water supply to 367,000 people in low income urban communities exceeding the targeted 250,000 people.

Inclusive and gender conscious school sanitation facilities: Implemented disability friendly school toilets with separate blocks for boys and girls; 386 of the targeted 406 units were completed and handed over.

Flood protection and mitigation facilities: Constructed drainage structures at critical junctions that substantially reduced the destructive impact of recurring floods in the city.
Chairman of the Committee (Dr Mark Assibey-Yeboah) 11:41 a.m.


Strategic plan: The project supported the development of manuals and urban water supply master plan; calibrated hydraulic network model, established a Low Income Customer Support Unit (LICSU) in Ghana Water Company Limited (GWCL), development of integrated urban environmental sanitation master plan, and a biodigester toilet construction and installation manual.

Simplified monitoring tools: The ESICOME mobile application (ESICApps) for data collection for environmental health activities has been developed and rolled out in selected Metropolitan and Municipal Assemblies in GAMA.

Affordability: A subsidy strategy combined with the participatory approach, use of local capacity, and the introduction of mobile aided saving made the household latrine provision affordable to the targeted low-income urban community.

Sanitation hackathon: A sanitation hackathon was organised to encourage innovation. Prizes were awarded to the top three most innovative teams out of the 35 participating teams. The Project worked with the winners and other innovators to ensure their innovative ideas were harnessed.

6.3 Backlog of Applicants

Despite this significant progress, about 8,000 households who registered for toilets, 7,500 applicants for water supply services and 150 targeted schools could not be served due to budgetary constraints on the parent project. It is in this respect that Government is securing this additional funding to extend and expand the project to ensure that the outstanding beneficiaries are served.

6.4 Scale-Up of Project Interventions

The parent project provided improved Water, Sanitation and Hygiene (WASH) facilities in schools with handwashing facilities, separate toilets for boys and girls, and changing rooms for girls. Evaluation of these interventions indicated that a great relief has been provided to the female students particularly during their menstrual cycles giving them the opportunity to reach their full potential through uninterrupted education.

The water interventions also provide relief to women and children who normally walk long distances in search of water, thus enabling them to engage into more productive and economic activities.

The Committee noted that the additional financing will enable the
Mr Benjamin K. Kpodo (NDC -- Ho Central) 11:51 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion moved by the Chairman for the access to this additional facility from the IDA for the Greater Accra Water Project. Mr Speaker, the Committee considered the terms of the loan and we would recommend it to the House for approval as further support for the Kpong Water project which has relieved a lot of people in the Madina- Adenta area from water shortage.
We also observed that the terms of the loan are favourable and it is good that we access this Facility to further carry out the assignment for which it is intended.
Mr Speaker, there is not much more to say but to recommend it to the House for approval.
Mr Emmanuel A. Buah (NDC -- Ellembele) 11:51 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to support the Motion to approve this Facility to improve sanitation in the country.
Mr Speaker, a very important intervention that I find missing was and has been the reason we have not been very successful with the issue of sanitation and that is public education, public sensitisation and taking personal responsibility for our environment and the sanctions that have to go with it.
Mr Speaker, I say that because I have seen so many other interventions we have spent so much money on sanitation and I think that this is very important. This would realise that the policy of toilet-for-all would go a long way.
Mr Speaker, we realised that even in its implementation, it has not been
evenly distributed. More importantly, Mr Speaker, what is in place is that people who once have been provided with this facility continue to violate, engage in acts that would destroy our environment and take us back in terms of the effort we are trying to make? So there has to be an effort in our attempt to improve sanitation to ensure that Ghanaians are taking responsibility and that people are really paying the price for it. It is only then that we can see any improvement. I have seen a lot of countries where one would not even think about littering because it would hit him in the pocket.
So, Mr Speaker, as we continue to make efforts to improve sanitation by putting in money, I think that that policy must also come up with other strategies to ensure personal responsibility and ensure that people who are not really being in line are paying the price for it. It is the only way that we can make progress. Other than that, we can continue to bring loans - toilet -for- all, water - for- all on yearly basis and we would not see the impact. Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Kennedy N. Osei (NPP -- Akim Swedru) 11:51 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to support the Motion for the approval of a US$125 million facility for the GAMA project.
Mr Kennedy N. Osei (NPP -- Akim Swedru) 12:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the GAMA project as we all know has been in existence since 2014 and there has been a lot of achievements so far under this programme.
Mr Speaker, this additional funding is going to support several interventions. If we look at paragraph 0.5 of the Report on page 6, it has given details of the interventions that this financing would provide. The major one is the household toilets. We know the issues that we have when it comes to open defecation in this country. Reports have stated clearly that about 18.25 per cent of Ghanaians practice open defecation in this country and we know the consequences of such practices. I believe that with this Facility, it would help to provide households that do not have places of convenience to also have an opportunity to get it.

Mr Speaker, additionally, we know how many communities in Greater Accra are saddled with water problems.

There are several areas that do not have access to potable water even in the capital city and I believe that if this money is approved by the House, it will help to extend the water network

to those areas; people who do not have it will also have an opportunity to get access to water.

Mr Speaker, I believe with these few words, if my Hon Colleagues would join us to approve this Facility, it will go a long way to help the Ghanaian people. It would alleviate their plight of going through the frustration of having a place to either ease themselves or using potable water. Mr Speaker, on this note, I support the Motion and I thank you very much.
Mr Speaker 12:01 p.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Member.
Yes, Hon Yieleh Chireh? A brief one.
Mr Joseph Yieleh Chireh (NDC -- Wa West) 12:01 p.m.
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I would add my voice to the support that anybody is giving for this project.
Mr Speaker, if you look at page 11 of the Committee's Report, it refers to promoting the fight against COVID-19 and the provision of water. Particularly, if you look at the protocols, it requires washing of hands and ensuring cleanliness. If we look at it again, the support that the Government wanted to give to the ordinary persons in the cities to be able
to have free water is not extended to rural areas where there are boreholes some of which have broken down. There should have been an urgent request to the Ministry of Sanitation and Water Resources to ensure that these boreholes are also repaired, because they will help the people in the rural areas.
Again, it is important that as the population is growing, continuously, we would have to increase water supply to cover, in particular, areas very close to the big cities; either Kumasi or Accra. They drink very bad water; their source of water is not good.
After the project is completed, what we need to do is to extend the coverage to these areas. Sometimes, when we listen to the news and look at the videos that are produced, one can hardly believe that even within Greater Accra or Greater Kumasi, people have that type of water.
Mr Speaker, I would urge that the Ministry intensifies its activities. And for this House, let us support the approval of this Motion, so that it can increase the coverage for everybody.
rose
Mr Speaker 12:01 p.m.
Yes, Hon Minister?
Mrs Ursula Owusu-Ekuful (NPP -- Ablekuma West) 12:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Speaker, this Project could not have come at a better time and coming from a constituency which has benefitted from the previous GAMA project, I can say without a shadow of doubt that the teeming numbers of my constituents who were looking forward to being included in the GAMA project, and who could not be part of it would be excited at the fact that Government has sought funding to extend this Project to cover even more beneficiaries.
Mr Speaker, the flood protection and mitigation aspect of it is also extremely critical to helping to achieve open defecation-free status in Greater Accra. If we are able to do that, it would not only improve the health and sanitation of the people, but the environment as well.
Mr Speaker, just yesterday, I had a town hall meeting with the constituents in Otojor, who have suffered considerably from the excessive rains in this country. And the question that they asked me was when would Government construct the drains that would carry away the flood
Mr Speaker 12:01 p.m.
Yes, Hon Majority Leadership?
Mr Moses Anim (NPP -- Trobu) 12:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank you. I would also just encourage Hon Members to support the Motion, because looking at the terms and conditions of the Facility, I think it is a good one, the objectives are very clear. Taking a facility like that to enhance our sanitation facilities are improved upon and ensure that household toilets are provided and potable water is also provided within the GAMA is very encouraging. I think that we should support it.
Mr Speaker, we know that water is life. That has been the sentiment and the knowledge that have been impacting all these years. I think COVID-19 has also taught us a lot,
that apparently, we need water regularly. This facility will also help fight COVID-19. We do not know when it will leave the world entirely. Therefore, the health protocols have to be observed critically as we move on.
Mr Speaker, also when the commercial facility comes, we would look at the details anyway, but for now, we have realised that the provision of the facility is to support the GAMA and enhance water supply. Already, the GAMA project has done a lot. If you look at the Report, the GAMA project, which is a World Bank Project, has extended water distribution lines to a lot of communities. The extension of the distribution lines are very critical. Their continuation eases the situation where water cannot reach other places. Mr Speaker, I would add that we should all support this Facility. It is good for Mother Ghana, it is good for Accra and it is good for all of us.
Question put and Motion agreed to.
Mr Speaker 12:01 p.m.
Hon Members, item listed 7, Resolution.
Yes, Hon Deputy Minister for Finance?
RESOLUTION 12:01 p.m.
THIS HONOURABLE 12:01 p.m.
HOUSE HEREBY RE- 12:01 p.m.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I second the Motion.
Question put and Motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
Mr Speaker 12:01 p.m.
Hon Members, item listed 8 -- Yes, Hon Chairman of the Finance Committee.
Request for Waiver of Import duties, Import and Domestic
VAT, GETFund Levy, et cetera to procure materials, equipment and services for construction of five (5) Technical and Vocational
Education (TVET) Centres of Excellence
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that this honourable House adopts the Report of the Finance Committee on the Request for waiver of Import Duties, Import and Domestic VAT, GETFund Levy, NHIL, EXIM Levy and Special
Import Levy amounting to the Ghana cedi equivalent of ten million, eight hundred and seventy-nine thousand, two hundred and twenty-eight euros and ten cents (€10,879,228.10) on materials, equipment, and services to be procured for the Construction of five (5) Technical and Vocational Education and Training (TVET) Centres of Excellence.
Mr Speaker, in so doing, I would present the Committee's Report.
1.0 Introduction
The request for waiver of Import Duties, Import and Domestic VAT, GETFund Levy, NHIL, EXIM Levy and Special Import Levy amounting to the Ghana cedi equivalent of ten million, eight hundred and seventy nine thousand, two hundred and twenty- eight euros and ten cents (€10,879,228.10) on materials, equipment and services to be procured for the Construction of five (5) Technical and Vocational Education and Training (TVET) Centres of Excellence was presented to the House on Thursday 8 th October, 2020 by the Honourable Deputy Minister for Sanitation and Water Resources, Mr Patrick Yaw Boamah on behalf of the Minister responsible for Finance.
Pursuant to article 103 of the 1992 Constitution and Order 169 of the Standing Orders of the House, the request was referred to the Committee on Finance for consideration and report.
The Committee subsequently met and discussed the request with a Deputy Minister for Finance, Hon Kwaku Agyeman Kwarteng, Deputy Ministers for Education, Hon Gifty Twum-Ampofo and Hon Dr Yaw Osei Adutwum as well as officials from the Ministries of Finance and Education, Council for Technical and Vocational Education and Training (COTVET) and the Ghana Revenue Authority (GRA).
The Committee hereby submits this report to the House pursuant to Order 161(1) of the Standing Orders of the House.
The Committee is grateful to the above-mentioned Deputy Ministers and the officials for attending upon the Committee.
2.0 References
The Committee referred to and was guided by the following documents inter alia during its deliberations on the Agreement:
The 1992 Constitution of the Republic of Ghana;
The Standing Orders of the Parliament of Ghana;
The Public Financial Manage- ment Act, 2016 (Act 921); and
The Value Added Tax Act, 2013 (Act 870).
The Contract Agreement between the Government of Ghana acting through the Council for Technical and Vocational Education and Training (COTVET) of the Ministry of Education and Messrs De Lorenzo S.p.A. Viale Romanga of Italy for the Construction of Technical and Vocational Education and Training (TVET) Centre of Excellence.
3.0 Background
In 2018, the Government of Ghana (GOG) represented by the Ministry of education (MoE) signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with Messrs. De Lorenzo S.p.A of Italy, a specialised manufacturer and supplier of Technical and Vocational Education and Training (TVET) solutions to partner Government to set up five (5) modern and fully functional state of
Mr Speaker 12:01 p.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Chairman.
Mr Benjamin Komla Kpodo (NDC -- Ho Central) 12:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion moved by the Hon Chairman for a request for waiver of import duties on TVET Projects.
Mr Speaker, we note that the import duty levies, VAT, and the others go to increase the cost of procurement of the items that are needed to establish the various centres. Therefore, we considered that if this is approved by this House, it would help to reduce the cost of establishing the centres.
Mr Speaker, during the consideration of this request, we detected few things. We saw that the prices of some of the equipment go to different centres, which are different, one from another. So we were at a loss, as to whether it is the same type of centres that would be established across the five nominated centres or not. I personally had a satisfactory answer to this enquiry, but all the same, we would recommend it. Having looked at the exemptions, they are lawful, and we recommend to the House that it be approved.
Mr Speaker, we again raised the question with the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance, where his Tax Exemption Bill is -- he should produce it to the House. He promised at the inception of his administration that he was going to introduce the Bill, which would regulate the granting of exemptions. We are left with about four weeks for him to leave office, and he has still not produced the Bill, but is still bringing tax exemptions in the same form. So, we would want him to know that since some bills can be taken by a certificate of urgency, he should bring it, so that we would work on it before he leaves office.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Speaker 12:01 p.m.
Hon Member, you can never know when he is to leave office. Who knows, he could be given office for another twelve years.
Mr Kpodo 12:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, constitutionally, he would have to leave office after the elections. [Interruption]
Mr Speaker 12:01 p.m.
Hon Member, you know that cannot be correct. [Laughter].
Mr Kwarteng 12:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do take note of his suggestion that I would be leaving office -- that is all
right.Mr Speaker, my only request to him is that as a member of the Finance Committee, he should pay attention to what comes to the Committee. We have laid the Exemptions Bill in this House, and it has been referred to the Finance Committee. Therefore, it is really sad that a member of the Committee would be now asking us to bring it to the Committee.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Peter Nortsu -Kotoe (NDC -- Akatsi North) 12:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we are very much aware that this Facility was approved by this House some time ago, and we are aware of the progress of work on these Projects.
Mr Speaker, my worry this morning is that we just received this Report, and it is a very bulky one too. We have not even got the time to go through it, and so, it would be very difficult for us to make very meaningful contributions. Therefore, I would appeal that next time -- [Interruption] . We all got the document this morning, so, I would appeal that the next time that we have a bulky Report like this, it reaches us in time, so that we could scrutinise it.
Mr Speaker, if we look at the Report, we are to approve the waiver for import duties, VAT, GETFund levy and NHIL levy, but if we look at some
Mr Speaker 12:01 p.m.
Thank you very much.
Hon Members, any final words from my right
Mr Moses Anim (NPP -- Trobu) 12:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, when the main Facility itself; the Report from the Finance Committee was debated, and the commercial aspect was debated.

Mr Speaker, we realised that it was very crucial and important to take those facilities to enhance our TVET and also empower CODVET to

ensure it's regulatory functions and also make sure that our modern level TVET is enhanced.

Mr Speaker, the debate came to a point where the deficits in our middle level vocational and technical, especially, in fine-tuning our products which has been a problem. Also packaging has been a problem. This facility could help enhance that.

Mr Speaker, as I spoke to you, in the Covid-19 era, we demonstrated our skills where the locally produced face masks were very neat with very good finishing. Mr Speaker, if we should encourage facilities like these, we would be enhancing our local production; consuming Ghana-made goods which would help. The value of the cedi would be improved.

Mr Speaker, technically speaking, we also saw that our technical and vocational schools were not well equipped and therefore, getting facilities like these to equip them would also improve whatever we want to do. The vocational university that we want to put, is all in a bid to ensure that our middle level; the Informal sector that we all want to build is to improve the economy of this country and to provide livelihood for our people especially with this challenge of Covid-19, which definitely, we do not know when we

would get out of it, though Ghana has really done very well in managing the pandemic as a country.

Mr Speaker, I remember that that debate also culminated in a point where we saw local content in this loan facility. The debate also brought in the Minister for Education who elaborated a lot on local content and advantages that local companies would get. So, just to remind my Hon Colleague that the Minister for Education really demonstrated the local content aspect of the Agreement and we were fully assured that we were going to benefit as a country from the Facility that was laid.

I believe that approving this request for waiver, would help, especially, looking at the level and the stage at which the project has been taken and the alacrity with which the development is going on, we need this waiver for them to move quickly so that we can benefit from the facility as a country.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity.

Question put and Motion agreed to.
Mr Speaker 12:21 p.m.
Hon Members, the item listed as 9, Resolution, Hon Minister?
RESOLUTIONS 12:21 p.m.
Minister for Finance 12:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,
WHEREAS by the provi- sions of article 174 (2) of the Constitution, Parliament is empowered to confer power on any person or authority to waive or vary a tax imposed by an Act of Parliament;
THE EXERCISE of any power conferred on any person or authority to waive or vary a tax in favour of any person or authority is by the said provisions made subject to the prior approval of Parliament by resolution;
BY THE COMBINED 12:21 p.m.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I rise to second the Motion.
Question put and Motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
MOTION 12:21 p.m.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that this honourable House adopts the Report of the
Finance Committee on the Request for waiver of Import Duties, Import VAT, GETFund Levy, NHIL, EXIM Levy and Special Import Levy amounting to the Ghana cedi equivalent of one million, one hundred and twelve thousand, four hundred and fifty-one United States dollars (US$1,112,451.00) for China Gansu International Corporation for Economic and Technical Cooperation and seven hundred and twenty-six thousand, three hundred and forty- one United States dollars (US$726,341.00) for China Railway Major Bridge on materials, equipment and works to be procured for the implementation of the Accra Intelligent Traffic Management Project under the Tranche B Facility Agreement between the Republic of Ghana and China Development Bank
(CDB).
Mr Speaker, in so doing, I present your Committee's Report 12:21 p.m.
1.0 Introduction
The request for waiver of Import Duties, Import VAT, GETFund levy, NHIL, EXIM Levy and Special Import Levy amounting to the Ghana cedi equivalent of one million, one hundred and twelve thousand, Four hundred and fifty-one United States dollars (US$1,112,451.00) for China
Mr Benjamin Komla Kpodo (NDC -- Ho Central) 12:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion for the granting of tax waivers in various forms for this Project to be completed .
Mr Speaker, you would recall that this is a tranche of the famous CDB loan, which the master facility was taken several years back. In considering this aspect, we noted at the Committee that these waivers rank as one of the lowest on record because there were instances where the waivers amounted to more than 14 per cent or 15 per cent of the cost of the project. However, this is very low and we wonder what Ghana Revenue Authority (GRA) and the Ministry of Finance did. They were not able to explain satisfactorily.
There is a problem with the submission. When you read the second paragraph of page 3, you would find out that the CDB is funding the project with a facility of US$210,660,000. Then when you come to paragraph 5.3 of page 5, under cost of the project, you would again read that CDB is financing US$200.68 million. So, what exactly is the amount that CDB is granting for this project? Which is which?
Mr Speaker, I raised this question at the Committee meeting and the Hon Chairman asked the sponsors to go and reconcile it and come back but they did not come back and suddenly, they have presented the same conflicting figures in the Report to you. I do not know what directives you would want to give. Maybe, they would have to reconcile the figure on how much is CDB giving us as loan? Is it US$210,660,000 or US$200.68 million towards this project?
I think that we should be very mindful of the fact that this a House of record and we should not contradict ourselves while deliberating on issues on this platform. Nonetheless, I recommend that we grant approval of the waivers. These are not the issues in dispute but the issue in dispute has to do with how much we are getting from the CDB facility. However, when it comes to the waivers, I recommend that we approve the facility.
What will happen then is that if it is US$210,660,000 that we are borrowing from CDB, then the counterpart funding should be reduced to US$26 million because the project cost is US$236.10 million. So, if CDB is giving us US$210,660,000, then the counterpart funding should be
US$26 million, but if it is giving us US$200.68 million, then the counterpart funding will be US$35.42 million.
This was clearly indicated in the document presented to us, that the counterpart funding is US$35.42 million. So, we really cannot fathom what the differences are and how much the Government is supposed to present as counterpart funding.
Deputy Minister for Finance (Mr Kwaku Agyeman Kwarteng): Mr Speaker, the Hon Member raises a legitimate point but we need to note that the loan was US$210,000,000 and that was what was approved. Following our appearance at the Finance Committee, the reconciliation is being done to explain the difference. As he said, before we sign the agreement, if it turns out that the project cost would have to be revised, then accordingly, the counterpart funding would have to be revised, so that assurance I can give.
The good thing is that this waiver does not relate in any way to the amount that the Hon Minister raised. This has been prepared against a master list of the things that they would need, so we can go ahead and approve this. Definitely, the Ministry of Finance is equally interested in these disparities and we would
Mr Kwame Governs Agbodza (NDC -- Adaklu) 12:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to speak in support of the request to grant this tax waiver. It is a ritual in this House that many of the Engineering, Procurement, and Construction (EPC) contracts have tax exemptions as a condition precedent.
I would go straight to paragraph 5.4, under update of the project. The Hon Chairman's Report says that ‘the Committee was informed that the Intelligent Traffic Management System project is progressing according to schedule. A number of traffic management systems have been installed. Secondly, with respect to the road construction project which starts from the Black Stars Square, Osu to Nungua, the Committee was informed that earthworks are currently ongoing and a number of culverts are also being constructed at various places'.
Mr Speaker, this is the reason my Hon Colleague was initially asking and it is not only in this Parliament, but it happens all the time, at least, for the almost eight years that I have been here; people appear at the Committee to guide us on this and tell us things that are problematic. I used that
corridor this morning. By the time you start doing earthworks or roadworks, it means you have finished clearing.
Anybody driving from Nungua to Black Stars Square would know that we do not have earthworks going on there. The Contractor is only building the site and they have put some culverts which are sitting on their site. Where are the earthworks going on? The Hon Chairman should let us be careful sometimes with what we write because this is a record of the House. [Interruption] Is that what you have been told? Then when I finish, you can respond. The truth is that we are not at earthworks stage yet.
Also, the fact that some of the traffic lights for the Intelligent Traffic Management have been installed is true. However, as the Ranking Member for the Committee on Roads and Transport, I am also aware that the project has stalled, although that is not part of the Hon Chairman's submission.
Additionally, I want to raise the point that every time we do a turnkey project, every developer pretends that to the last equipment they need to use for the project, they would have to buy them brand new and imported into this country. It is quite amazing that the same contractor can do a project
in Tamale and ask for 30 tipper trucks for which we give them the exemption to buy them. When you give them another project in Ho, if they need 20 tipper trucks, they would charge you for them.
There is something wrong with it. All the equipment bought could not have totally depreciated to be gotten rid of within two years. I am not saying that there is anything wrong but I am saying that for almost eight years that I have been here, I have been seeing this.

There were times that we bought 20 bulldozers for a project, we rented some and gave tax exemptions of over US$25 million on the renting of equipment alone. [Interruption] -- Mr Speaker, the Hon Member should not defend this. He should sit down for me to finish with my contribution. It is not an accusation against our opponents -- they have not been in government for eight years. This is an observation I have made for the past eight years and before this House would grant this loan agreement, we should look into it and in the future, be favourable towards developers who could prove that would save money because they have some of the equipment already so they should not

be paid for. It is just like when a person requests the services of a repairer to fix his or her windows and the person is supposed to buy every equipment needed. Or, if a person hires a driver, would that person enrol the driver in a driving school for the driver to be trained to get him a licence? That is exactly what we want to do.

Mr Speaker, we should look into this in the future because we could save some money. The 30 tipper trucks that would be bought would not add up to make the roads better for us. Maybe, if they would be rented or they are used ones, the cost would be cheaper because ultimately, we would pay them to buy 30 tipper trucks, excavators and other things and within the time they finish this project, that would be gone.

Mr Speaker, as a House, let us look into this and be favourable towards those who may not charge all these but would be able to deliver the same quality of work.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity.
Mr Kwarteng 12:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Finance would continue to improve the regime and to eliminate irregularities, so it is worthy of note that this particular exemption in the
Mr Joseph Osei Owusu (NPP -- Bekwai) 12:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have been excited to comment on steps we could take to ensure that if irregularities indeed happen, we could check them and I am happy to hear the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance mention the process of automation. If we programmed and entered the chases numbers of all the equipment for which we have granted exemption, then new applications would be placed in the same system so that if an equipment for which we have granted an exemption is also prevented for further exemption, the system would pull it out and then we could share that with the registration authorities so that if any such thing is presented for registration or even fails, because it has been granted exemption we could track and take the appropriate steps. This is a suggestion worth considering.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
rose
Mr Speaker 12:41 p.m.
Hon Chairman, do you want to respond to that, because I wish to make an order that the relevant authorities must be immediately informed of this so that it can be turned into a practice, which could save us some trouble and
particularly, the kind of information that the Hon Minister would like to have. It is ordered and the Clerk must see to it that orders are issued immediately to the relevant authorities to have this as part of our regulated mechanism.
Yes, Hon Chairman?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, earlier, the Hon Member for Adaklu, Mr Agbodza, drew the attention of the House to the fact that earth works which have been captured as on- going are not really happening. But that would be the domain of the Committee of Roads and Transport, where he is the Hon Ranking Member.
Mr Speaker, when these requests come before the Finance Committee, we go the extra mile to invite the relevant ministry to attend upon the Committee, together with the Ghana Revenue Authority (GRA) and the Ministry of Finance. Then we ask them to give us an update on the status of the project. So, whatever is captured in the Report is what the Ministry of Roads and Highways and the Urban Roads Directorate gave to us. If indeed, earthworks are not on- going, how else would this be captured? This is because he said that the contractor is on site working.
Earthworks have not been completed so they should take further steps as the Committee on Roads and Transport takes up some of these issues. He also alluded to the fact that with regard to the Intelligent Traffic Management System that some lights and cameras have been installed. He said the project has stalled but I do not know about it and all of these would also be in the domain of their Committee. We stick to matters that concern us and to the extent that we include volunteer information in our Report but not just concentrate on the waiver.
Mr Speaker, as the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance indicated, we even applauded their effort at the Committee meeting because if we do US$136 million project and the waiver requested in total reverse is US$2 million, I have not seen anything like this in this House. We see waivers to the extent of 30 or 40 per cent of the project cost and this is the first time I have seen a project which the waiver is less than one per cent. I even asked the Ministry whether they would come back with a second request and they said no because the waivers that came to the House was between 20 to about 40 per cent of the project cost and if this is in about 20 million, then the Ministry is --
Question put and Motion agreed to.
RESOLUTIONS 12:41 p.m.
BY THE COMBINED 12:41 p.m.
Mr Kwame Governs Agbodza 12:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to support the Motion.
Question put and Motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
BILLS -- CONSIDERATION 12:51 p.m.
STAGE 12:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker 12:51 p.m.
Hon Chairman, we went through the new clause a bit and we decided to give you the chance to reconcile two clauses. Hon Chairman of the Committee, has the relevant meetings been held?
Chairman of the Committee (Nana Amoakoh) 12:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, yes, we did meet and the necessary corrections were made.
Mr Speaker, so, I beg to move, add the following new clause after clause 29 12:51 p.m.
“Suspension of a license
30. (1) The Council may suspend the licence of a real estate broker or real estate agent, where the Council determines that the real estate broker or real estate agent in
the performance of a function authorised by the licence;
(a) fails to use the real estate forms required for the real estate transaction;
(b) accepts cash in payment for the real estate transaction;
(b) fails, within reasonable time which shall not exceed one month, to pay out money received into a client account, to the client;
(c) pays a commission or fees, or divided commission or fees to a person who is not a licensed real estate broker or real estate agent; or
(d) fails to give a copy of the sale and purchase agreement to both the seller and purchaser of real estate.
(2) The Council shall suspend the license, if the Council
(a) gives at least ten days' notice to the real estate broker or real estate agent whose license the Council intends to suspend;
(b) states in the notice the grounds of the suspension;
(c) serves on the real estate broker or real estate agent a copy of any complaint or charges which the Council proposes to consider; and
(e)gives the real estate broker or real estate agent, the opportunity to
(i) be heard either in person or to be represented by a lawyer,
(ii) examine and cross-examine witnesses and present docu- ments and other evidence in support of the case of that Real estate broker or Agent.
(3) The Council shall suspend the license of a real estate broker or a real estate agent who after being given notice, fails to take the required remedial action within the specified time”
Mr Speaker 12:51 p.m.
Hon Chairman of the Committee, I think you have been rather brief. Give us the whole picture.
Nana Amoakoh 12:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in fact, we met and this morning I discussed this with Hon Yieleh Chireh. We went through the whole thing and the proposal that was effected was
put in. That is why I am moving the amendment as captured as a new clause.
Mr Speaker 12:51 p.m.
So, in effect, you have moved the new clause in extenso.
Yes, Hon Member for Adaklu?
Mr Kwame Governs Agbodza 12:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the new rendition is obviously an improvement on the previous one. I can understand the rational for the clause 30, subclause (1), paragraph (b) of the new rendition which is to avoid physical cash transaction because part of this memorandum is to cure money laundering. So, it is important for the State to track transactions in landed property.
Mr Speaker, I am not a lawyer but I am just asking; can we actually effectively enforce this law that people cannot transact in cash? We should not also forget that this is an attempt to regulate, including renting. Have we thought of the fact that there might be a tenant or client who does not own a bank account and in the course of the transaction would attempt paying for the services in cash? The lawyers here could help us. Is this really enforceable; that we should not accept cash in payment for the real estate transaction?
Mr Speaker 12:51 p.m.
Hon Members, in the first place, as a country, we are moving away from cash economy towards a cashless one. Secondly, we know that cash payments are a means of circumventing those very regulations that we would want to establish and strengthen as part and parcel of this new mechanism to bring transparency into the estate realm.
I do not see any reason we should not ask for payments to be made into accounts where they could be easily traceable. Traceability is one of the factors that ensure accountability but if we leave this to cash to some person in some kiosks somewhere, then there would be no accountability. It can to a large extent defeat the very purpose of the legislation. This is exactly what the Hon Member for Adaklu is saying.
Mr Bernard Ahiafor 12:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I support the rendition as it is captured in the Order Paper. You have stated the reason in very clear terms that we are trying to avoid money laundering.
Mr Speaker, we are talking about the real estate agent or real estate
broker accepting cash; we are not talking about the landlord or the tenant. Any transaction involving a real estate broker or a real estate agent must not be cash on a table. That is what the law is seeking to proscribe because many things happen if we allow the real estate brokers or the real estate agent to do a transaction with cash on a table. So, everything must be routed through the bank.
Mr Speaker, we are talking about the real estate broker or the real estate agent. So, if one is a licenced real estate broker or a licenced real estate agent, his or her transactions must not be by cash on a table.
Mr Agbodza 12:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I agree entirely with my Hon Colleague. I am just giving a practical example.
Mr Speaker, the only bank in Adaklu is a GN Bank which is gone to the wind. So, a teacher gets an appointment to teach at the District Assembly Primary School in Waya which is even in our district capital. He gets an estate agent - And last week, I was asking my Hon Colleagues --
Are they saying that even if a landlord in Waya wants to rent one room in his house to a teacher, he needs to be registered? Our Hon
Colleagues in this House said yes. That is what we want to do. That is one of the problems.
Mr Speaker, secondly, since there is no bank, assuming one needs to pay into the agent's or the broker's account, what it effectively means is that, one would have to take transport back to Ho and pay that money into the account and come back. I am just talking about practicality.
In Accra, laws make sense very well because the banks are just at our next door but we are making laws for the last person in this country reasonably and I would just want Hon Colleagues to look at this and say, yes, we want to cure the money laundering and other things, but are we not going to do that by basically making people's lawful activities unlawful?
Mr Speaker, unless there would be other means, maybe, the Agency can develop Apps that we can use mobile money to pay, that would be fair but that is not clear enough.
Mr Speaker 12:51 p.m.
Yes, Hon First Deputy Speaker?
Mr Joseph Osei-Owusu 12:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank you very much. The critical point is, like you suggested,
ensure that there is record of the money paid for tax purposes and for accounting for the total throughput. As soon as we start accepting cash on the table, some would go under the table and some would disappear.
Mr Speaker, the bank is only one of the means by which one can engage in cashless transaction; depositing at the bank is one.
Today, the easiest means by which one could engage in cashless transaction is through mobile money. Paying for goods and services without cash includes any system. Indeed, we have passed in this Parliament, a law which says that every agency or supermarket should use Point of Sale (POS) systems, so, we should be enforcing the law against those who are not implementing them. They should not be accepting cash. But we are placing the responsibility on this agent so that we can get somebody to punish if he or she breaches the law.
Mr Speaker, if we do not start with the easiest ones -- Well, they are not hundreds of people; they are not the everyday people who are using real estate agents. They are the rare people like you who money to rent an apartment for himself, his daughter or his friend -- He is the one who would want to pay through the -- We are looking at those who can write
Mr Joseph Osei-Owusu 1:01 p.m.
cheques; those who even if they are paying in cash, can pay through their mobile money accounts so that there would be records of what you have done for tax and accounting purposes.

Mr Speaker, the fixation on tax -- I understand the situation we are dealing with, in terms of the market as we know it; where we buy everyday things such as food and water in traffic. However, we are talking about real transactions and real estate. I think that it is appropriate that we link the license of operators to enforcing the law and helping to ensure that there is sanity and accounting for transactions.
Mr Speaker 1:01 p.m.
Thank you very much, Hon First Deputy Speaker.
Mr Ahiafor 1:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if we look closely at the Bill, particularly, clause 1(3), it is clear that if a landlord acts in person, he is not covered by this Act. So, an example of the landlord at Adaklu who rents a house to a teacher who has been posted to Adaklu. Once the landlord is not going through real estate broker or agent, this law has made a provision for it.
Mr Speaker, if I may read 1:01 p.m.
“Despite subsection (1) and subject to section (38), this Act does not have to apply to a real estate transaction in which
(a) a person acts personally or an employee acts on behalf of the employer in the regular course of employment…”
Mr Speaker, if one is a landlord and is not using a real estate broker or agent, the law is saying that it does not apply to him or her. The application of the law is to those who are licensed real estate brokers or agents. These are the categories of people that the law proscribes that they must not do a cash-at-table transaction.
Mr Kpodo 1:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I certainly support my Hon Colleague that people should not be encouraged to do cash transactions especially with such types of transactions.
We of the accountancy profession need data to be able to prepare accurate financial statements. Many a time, these businessmen cannot employ qualified or even slightly high- level accountants to prepare their books for them. So, many rely on bank statements to determine procurement cost, profits and losses.
If people are allowed to push money under the table to carry out transactions of this magnitude, we will not have the necessary information to prepare true and fair accounts.
Mr Speaker, so, I think this is a very good point where we should encourage people to do their transactions through the banks or any other means where transactions could be verifiable. So, we must push the agenda of disallowing people from making cash payments because it clouds the nature of the transaction. So, it is necessary that this must be accepted in the Bill.
Mr Speaker 1:01 p.m.
Hon Chairman, what do you say at this stage?
Nana Amoakoh 1:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the amendment should stay because we have heard both arguments and so, we are trying to move away from the cash system to the digitised system. So, it will be; “accept cash in payment for the real estate transaction.”
Mr Speaker 1:01 p.m.
Hon Chairman, are you maintaining; ‘and accept cash transaction' or not?
Nana Amoakoh 1:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the rendition should remain as it is.
Mr Speaker 1:01 p.m.
Mr Chairman, I did not get you, please.
Nana Amoakoh 1:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is here; “accept cash in payment for the real estate.” In the case of the real estate industry, in purchasing something, one may not have a cheque book readily available but at the end of the day, if one has to pay in cash, a receipt will also be issued out to you. So, I believe the rendition here should remain as it is.
Mr Speaker 1:01 p.m.
By the time the auditors come, the person to whom a receipt was given will not be there and he or she will check books that are available and part of the trickery is that some of the payments are not recorded or there are other receipts which do not form part of what auditors come to see. What do we do?
Nana Amoakoh 1:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in that case, we are thinking on the dealings but when we are talking about cash, once a receipt is issued out, I do not see any reason - because one is buying a property and the amount is already fixed; if it is $150,000, you are paying for --
Mr Speaker 1:01 p.m.
Hon Member, just reflect on this matter a bit. We will suspend the present process and then go back to the Addendum Order
Mr Speaker 1:01 p.m.
Item numbered (b) by the Hon Minister for Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration.
Mr Moses Anim 1:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I ask your leave and the indulgence of Hon Members to allow the Hon Minister for Communications to lay the Paper on behalf of the Hon Minister for Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration.
PAPERS 1:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker 1:11 p.m.
Item numbered 2 -- Presentation and First Reading of Bills. Item 2(a) - Cyber Security Bill, 2020. Hon Minister for Commu- nications.
BILLS -- FIRST READING 1:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker 1:11 p.m.
Item numbered 2(b) -- National Centre for the Coordination of Early Warning and Response Mechanism Bill, 2020. Hon
Minister for Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration?
Mr Anim 1:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would humbly ask that we defer item numbered 2(b) because the indication I got from the Table Office is that this Bill is not available to the office at the moment.
Mr Speaker 1:11 p.m.
Hon Members, item numbered 2(b) deferred accordingly.
Mrs Owusu-Ekuful 1:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with respect to the Cyber Security Bill, 2020, if it pleases the House, I beg that the leadership of the Committee on Defence and Interior should be asked to assist in the consideration of this Bill.
Mr Speaker 1:11 p.m.
Very well.
Hon Members, as requested by the Hon Minister for Communications, the leadership of the Committee on Defence and Interior would join the consideration of the Bill.
Mr Ras Mubarak 1:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the referral as has been read is strictly an issue for the Committee on Communications and this Committee is clothed with the relevant expertise to look into the issues. I am wondering why the Committee on Defence and Interior would be roped in, perhaps the Hon Minister for Communications may provide some more --
Mr Peter Nortsu-Kotoe 1:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, inasmuch as I agree with you that the leadership of the Committee on Defence and Interior could join the Committee on Communications, I would have preferred that the Hon Minister would give us reasons for her request so that we would be convinced.
Mr Speaker 1:11 p.m.
Hon Member, I think that the decision should stand.
We would now move to Consideration Stage.
BILLS -- CONSIDERATION 1:11 p.m.
STAGE 1:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker 1:11 p.m.
Item numbered (i) - Hon Chairman of the Committee?
rose
Mr Speaker 1:11 p.m.
Hon Member, I thought you have already spoken.
Mr Ahiafor 1:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I got the basis of the new rendition from the law.
Mr Speaker, if you look at the mode of payment for real estate transaction as in clause 44, it reads that:
“(1) payment for each real estate transaction shall be by bank draft, cheque, bank transfer or electronic money transfer.
(2) A real estate broker or a real estate agent shall not accept cash in payment of any real estate transaction.”
Mr Speaker, it is for this reason that clause 30(1)(b) says that if a real estate broker or a real estate agent accepts cash transaction, it is grounds for which a licence can be suspended. This is a proper rendition.
Mr Agbodza 1:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the principle is noble and we all understand it. Not too long ago in this House, we passed a law and deployed electronic payment systems and said that from a certain day, payments should be made through a Point of Sale (POS) device in every
shop in this country. Mr Speaker, how many times has any of us here gone to, for instance, Shoprite and paid with cash? Yes, we can make the law -- we always say that there are beautiful laws in this country - but when we make the laws we forget that people must understand and have the ability to obey the law.
So, if it is the view of the House that if this Bill is passed into an Act, everybody in this country should have a cheque or the ability of a bank transfer then let us leave this provision and see if it will work.
However, I know that even in the city of Accra where there could be access to these things, laws are passed in this country, but the POS devices are not deployed and people still pay with cash at the major trading centres. Meanwhile the law has been passed and it is clear.
Mr Speaker, this is my personal view and I would be happy if this would work.
MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Hon Member for Wa West?
Mr Joseph Y. Chireh 1:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, he has raised his concerns, but the reference to the laws that we have passed also classified who should be able to operate the payment system. However, the important thing is that, we have explained that we are licensing people to transact business, and it is important that those transactions are recorded. It should not be that I would give a person money under the table when transacting business. So the law is clear.
We may be concerned about enforcement of laws, as a House, but that belongs to another arm of Government. It is not for us to be worrying about whether it would be implemented when we pass it. If that is the case, we might not even pass any law. In my view, the Question should be put for us to make progress on this matter.
rose
Nana Amoakoh 1:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, Hon Kpodo has spoken enough. Just go ahead and put the Question.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:21 p.m.
Let me listen to Hon Kpodo first.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:21 p.m.
Very well. Yes, Hon available Leader?
Mr Chireh 1:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if you even look at subclause (1), the right thing has been done, but we are using computers these days, they allow a person to pass through this. It is just a typographical error they have to look at. Whatever the Hon Member said is correct because in the first subclause, it is properly done, but when it comes to the rest of the places, when it is the word “licence”, it should be spelt with “c” and not “s”. They should look at this and tidy it up.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 30 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:21 p.m.
I direct the draftspersons to ensure that the appropriate spelling of “licence” is used throughout the Bill.
Nana Amoakoh 1:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, delete and insert the following:
“Revocation of licence
31. (1) Except as otherwise provided in this Act, the Council shall revoke the real estate broker licence of a company, society, association or partnership, if that company, society, association
or partnership ceases to have a licenced real estate broker as the designated officer or broker of that company, society, association or partnership.
(2) The Council shall revoke the licence of a real estate broker or real estate agent if the Council determines that the licence was obtained by fraud.
(3) Without limiting subsections (1) and (2), the Council may revoke the licence of a real estate broker or real estate agent
(a) where the agreement entered into by that real estate broker or real estate agent in relation to the licence of that real estate broker or real estate agent ceases to be effective;
(b) if that broker or agent is convicted by a court of competent jurisdiction for a serious offence; or
(c) if in the performance of a function authorised by the licence, the real estate broker or real estate agent
(i) knowingly makes a fraudu- lent misrepresentation;
(ii) acts in the dual capacity of broker and undisclosed principal in the same transaction;
(iii) acts for more than one party in the same transaction without the knowledge and consent of the parties that the licencee represented in the transaction;
(iv) accepts, gives or charges an undisclosed commi- ssion, rebate or profit on expenditures from a principal;
(v) commingles the money or other property of a property owner with those of the licencee;
(vi) fails to disclose infor- mation on a property which is the subject matter of a transaction; or
(vii) accepts from a pros- pective seller a net listing.”
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:21 p.m.
Yes, Hon available Leader?
Mr Chireh 1:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we need to make an amendment to the short title. This is because, we are creating a council and not an agency. The short title should read:
“Real Estate Agency Council Bill, 2020”.
We should insert “Council” after the word “Agency”. The reason is that, if we look at the Long Title as it stands, it is creating a council and not an agency. Also, in our law-making, we have an Authority, Agency, Council or Commission. However, with this one, in the Bill itself, we have created a Council, but the Short Title makes it an agency. There is a lot of confusion about it.
Mr Speaker, I so move.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:21 p.m.
Yes, Hon Ranking Member of the Committee on Constitutional, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs?
Alhaji I. A. B. Fuseini 1:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I support him. On Friday, before we adjourned, we agreed that
we would take the Long Title. Throughout the Bill, it is the establishment of the Council, and the object of the Council is specified in clause 3.
If we leave it this way, it leaves the impression that we are talking about an agency of Real Estate, but the whole activity within the real estate sector is the real estate agency, and we are establishing a council. That is why we said we must add “Council” to the “Real Estate Agency” to read “Real Estate Agency Council”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Short title as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:21 p.m.
Is this the end? [Interruption]
Very well. This brings us to the end of the Consideration of the Real Estate Agency Council Bill, 2020.
Yes, Hon available Leader of the Majority?
Mr William A. Quaittoo 1:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we can now move on item numbered 13 on the Order Paper -- Consideration Stage of the Institute of Chartered Accountants, Ghana Bill, 2020.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:21 p.m.
Yes, Hon Nortsu-Kotoe?
Mr Peter Nortsu-Kotoe 1:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I agree with the available Leader of the Majority that we go to the Consideration State of the Institute of Chartered Accountants, Ghana, Bill, 2020.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:31 p.m.
The Institute of Chartered Accountants, Ghana Bill, 2020 at the Consideration Stage.
BILLS -- CONSIDERATION 1:31 p.m.
STAGE 1:31 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee (Mr William Agyapong Quaittoo) 1:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 4, subclause (1), paragraph (b), line 1, delete “First”.
Mr Speaker, the reason is that, the Institute decided to do away with the First and Second Vice-Presidents; we
would have only one Vice-President and so, it runs through.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:31 p.m.
Item numbered 13(ii).
Mr Quaittoo 1:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 4, subclause (1), paragraph (c), delete. We are deleting it because that deals with Second Vice-President.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Quaittoo 1:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 4, subclause (1), paragraph (g), line 1, delete “two” and insert “three”.
Mr Speaker, in doing away with the Second Vice-President, we seek to add one more person to the Council. That is why we are changing it from two to three.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Bernard Ahiafor 1:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if we delete “two” in paragraph (h) and substitute with “three”, then we are saying:
“three members of the Institute who are women elected by
Mr Quaittoo 1:31 p.m.
What is the problem? It is the next subclause that talks about two members being women. We are changing “two” in paragraph (g) to “three”. That does not talk about whether women or men. Please look well.
Mr Bernard Komla Kpodo 1:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, what my Hon Colleague raised is important. The idea was to ensure that they have two members who are women. Because we have dropped the First and Second Vice- Presidents, we are increasing the membership of the Council to three under paragraph (h) so, if we say just change “two” to “three” -- [Interruption]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:31 p.m.
Hon Member, you have the text before you. We are working with what is before you. We are on clause 4(1)(g).
Mr Kpodo 1:31 p.m.
If it is paragraph (g), there is no problem.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:31 p.m.
There is no problem.
Clause 4 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 5 -- Tenure of office of members of the Council
Mr Quaittoo 1:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, subclause (1), line 2, after “only”, add “except the chairperson who shall hold office for one term only”.
Mr Speaker, the rendition becomes 1:31 p.m.
“A member of the Council shall hold office for a term of two years and is eligible for re- appointment for another term only except the chairperson who shall hold office for one term only.”
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 5 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 6 -- Meetings of the Council
Mr Quaittoo 1:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, subclause (4), delete and insert the following:
“The chairperson shall preside at meetings of the Council and
in the absence of the chairperson, the Vice-President of the Institute shall preside and in the absence of both the chairperson and vice-president of the Institute, a member of the Council elected by the members present from among their number shall preside.”
Mr Speaker, it is so because we have done away with the Second Vice-President, and so, we are re- framing the whole paragraph to read as it is advertised.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 6 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 7 to 12 ordered to stand part of the Bill
Clause 13 -- Categories of membership
Mr Quaittoo 1:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, paragraph (f), delete.
Mr Speaker, clause 13 talks about membership of the Institute and they said they would no more allow honorary membership and so,
we are deleting that. We would have consequential amendments as we go on.
Question put and amendment agreed to.

Clause 13 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 14 -- Qualification for enrolment
Mr Quaittoo 1:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, subclause (9), delete.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Quaittoo 1:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, subclause (10), delete.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 14 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 15 to 18 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 19 -- Application for registration
Mr Quaittoo 1:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, subclause (1), line 2, at end, add “for registration”.
Mr Speaker, the new rendition reads 1:41 p.m.
“A person who qualifies to be registered as a Chartered Accountant or a member of the Institute under this Act may apply to the Institute for registration.”
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 19 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 20 to 22 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 23 -- Cancellation of registration
Mr Quaittoo 1:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, subclause (1), paragraph (e), line 1, before “Chartered”, delete “the” and insert “a”.
Mr Speaker, the new rendition reads 1:41 p.m.
“A Chartered Accountant fails to undertake and continue
education requirement for a period of three years.”
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Quaittoo 1:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, subclause (3), line 2, delete “for a period and”.
The new rendition reads:
“The Council may before cancelling a registration, suspend the member on terms and conditions that the Council may determine.”
Mr Speaker, we are doing so for a period and it is part of the terms and conditions.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 23 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 24 -- Registers
Mr Quaittoo 1:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, subclause (2), opening phrase, delete “The register” and insert “Registers”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Quaittoo 1:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, subclause (5), delete “register” and insert “registers”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Agbodza 1:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just want to ask the Chairman - most professional institutes register both members in person and the vehicle by which they practise, the firms. Is there anything in this law like that or this institute does not register firms like Chartered Accountancy firms or law firms? [Interruption] -- This is because they keep registers of members and registers of firms. So when we say “register”, under “Registers” there is nothing like “the firms”.
Mr Kpodo 1:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 13 (g), which would now become (f) -- firms can be members.
Mr Agbodza 1:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I agree. What I am saying is that he said “Registers” and I am saying that most professional bodies keep registers of members and firms so one could be in good standing but his firm would not be duly registered. But if that is the norm here, then it is fine.
Mr Quaittoo 1:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the word was “register” and we are now
changing it to “Registers”; what is your problem? The word was “register” and we have now changed it to “registers” because there are different types of registers.
Mr Speaker, the amendment we have made still holds because we have different types of registers: We register firms and we register individuals. So, we have different kinds of registers. The word there was “register” and that is why we are changing it to “registers”.
Alhaji I. A. B. Fuseini 1:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 2 refers to clause 1, and clause 1 reads:
“The Board establishs, keeps and maintains registers”
It is not “register”. So, instead of saying, “the registers refer to subclause (2) because subclause (1) refers to “registers” not “register”. And that was just a correction to accord with clause 1.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 24 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 25 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr Quaittoo 1:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 25, subclause (3), line 2, delete “three months” and insert “ninety days”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 25 as amended shall stand part of the Bill.
Clause 27 to 35 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 36 -- Application for licence for public practice of accountancy
Mr Quaittoo 1:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 36, subclause (4), paragraph (b), subparagraph (ii), delete “its principals” and insert “the principals of the firm”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 36 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 37 to 40 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr Kpodo 1:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am sorry to go back to clause 39(1):
“A Chartered Accountant shall not engage in the public practice of accountancy unless that person holds a licence to engage in the public practice of accountancy or non-audit practice”.
Mr Speaker, the person is already a chartered accountant, so what disqualifies him from practising?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:51 p.m.
Hon Member, if I understand this correctly, it means that in addition to being a chartered accountant, the person must obtain a licence to be a public accounting practitioner.
Alhaji I. A. B. Fuseini 1:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is there in clause 36.
Mr Ahiafor 1:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 39 (2) says:
“A person who contravenes subsection (1)…”
When we read the entire clause 39, we are specifically talking about a chartered accountant because clause 39 (1) reads:
“A Chartered Accountant shall not engage…”
Subclause (3) reads:
“A Chartered Accountant who practices during any period…”
However, in subclause (2), we said “A person who contravenes…” So, we should say: “A Chartered Accountant who contravenes…” because we are specifically dealing with the Chartered Accountant. So, I am submitting that we delete “a person” and insert “A Chartered Accountant”. So the new rendition would be:
Mr Speaker, the new rendition would therefore be captured as 2:01 p.m.
“A Chartered Accountant who contravenes subsection (1) commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine of not less than two hundred and fifty penalty units and not more than five thousand penalty units or to a term of imprisonment of not less than six months and not more than three years, or to both”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:01 p.m.
Hon Members, I am listening to you. Can the offense be committed by only a Chartered Accountant? A Chartered Accountant is being prohibited from practising public accountancy without
a license, however, is the Chartered Accountant the only person who can commit the offense? Some other person who has no license at all, who is not a licensed Chartered Accountant may pretend to be. A lawyer may, after working in an accountancy firm, or partnering with an accountancy firm for a while and knows some rules, may go elsewhere and pretend to be a public practitioner. Should that person also not be caught or be punished?
Mr Ahiafor 2:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if we would want to prescribe the category that you have mentioned, then we would have to look at clause 39 (1) very well. This is because in clause 39 (1), the offense, as is stipulated in subclause (2), flows from clause 39 (1), and clause 39 (1) reads which I quote with permission:
“A Chartered Accountant shall not engage in the public practice of accountancy unless that person holds license to engage in the public practice of accountancy or non-audit practice”.
So it means that we are speaking about a Chartered Accountant who practices without a license. Therefore if we are talking about the condition of the offense as created in clause 39 (1), then it means that it should be a
Mr Kpodo 2:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, what you are referring to -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:01 p.m.
Hon Kpodo, I have not given you the Floor.
Yes, Hon Chairman?
Mr Quaittoo 2:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that what the Hon Ahiafor is saying should rather be subclause (3). It is subclause (3) that flows from subclause (1) directly. That is why it reads:
“A Chartered Accountant who practice during any period in which the license to engage in public practice of accountancy or non-audit practice has expired...”
So, that refers directly to subclause
(1).
Subclause (2) is a bit general because it says
“Any person who practices any time without a license commits an offense…”
Probably, subclause (3) should have been subclause (2), and
subclause (2) should have been subclause (3), so that it would have been better.
Mr Ahiafor 2:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would like to draw the Hon Chairman's attention to clause 28, which deals with a category of people who are not Chartered Accountants, but who hold themselves out as being Chartered Accountants. Clause 28 of the Bill specifically deals with those categories of people. Subclause (3) of clause 28 also prescribes the sanctions for those categories of people. Therefore, if we come to the clause under reference, it cannot be dealing with those categories of people, but Chartered Accountants, who contravenes clause
39 (1).
Alhaji I. A. B. Fuseini 2:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have always told the Hon Chairman that he is making the law not interesting. If we read clause 1 and clause 2 together, our problem would be solved. [Laughter] - That person, referred to in subclause (2), is attributory to the person in subclause (1). This is the law, but he states it in general terms. However, anybody that reads subclause (1) and (2) would come to the conclusion that, that person there must be a Chartered Accountant.
Mr Banda 2:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am tempted to go with the submission of --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:01 p.m.
Hon Member, kindly hold on.
Hon Members, having regard to the state of the Business of the House, I direct that the House Sits outside the regular Sitting hours.
Hon Member, you may now continue.
Mr Banda 2:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am tempted to go with the submission of the Hon Ahiafor. This is because if we look at the whole of clause 39, it is narrowed to a Chartered Accountant. If it is narrowed to a Chartered Accountant, then the offense created should also be narrowed to the Chartered Accountant. Otherwise, we should change the first three words of clause 39 (1) to read: “A person shall not…” This is because we need to get the connection between subclause (1) and subclause (2). Subclause (2) does not stand alone, it relates to subclause (1), which starts with “A Chartered Accountant…”
Mr Speaker, therefore I would also want to add my voice by saying that clause 39 (2) should read: “The Chartered Accountant…” because we are beginning clause 39 (1) with “The Chartered Accountant…” Once it makes specific reference to the same Chartered Accountant, subclause (2) should also read: “The
Chartered Accountant who con- travenes subsection (1) commits…” then it goes on and on. Otherwise, it would create a misleading impression that a prohibition clause is being created in relation to a Chartered Accountant, and an offence or a punishment provision, is also being created in respect of the Chartered Accountant plus other people. When we read the law that way, it does not give the connection well.
Mr Agbodza 2:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I can understand that my Hon Colleagues are lawyers, but if the issue is about somebody who is not qualified, or who is not a Chartered Accountant and is practicing and so is being prohibited, it is insisted to. It is quite clearly written there. It says and I quote:
“A person who is not a Char- tered Accountant registered under this Act…”
When a person carries on with that, there would be an offence for him, and clause 60 is also quite clear about that. I think that was what he was going to say, so, I do not see why we should touch what the Hon Chairman has just proposed.
If it is about somebody who is not qualified to be a Chartered Accountant pretending to be an accountant, it is part of the offences, and it is quite clear who they are

talking about -- somebody who is not a Chartered Accountant.
Mr Kpodo 2:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in this particular case of clause 39, we are referring to a person who is a Chartered Accountant. We are not referring to any other person. The person is a Chartered Accountant, who does not have a practicing certificate, but is practising. That is all.
So, my point is that adding the definite article “the” instead of “a” to read “The Chartered Accountant”, I agree with it. I agree that we should make reference to the person who is qualified to be a Chartered Accountant, who is practicing it via the public practising certificate. That is the one we are referring to here.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:01 p.m.
Hon Member for Ho Central, if we introduce the definite article “the”, it would suggest that we have already identified a particular Chartered Accountant, but here, a Chartered Accountant refers to “any”. So, the use of the definite article “the” would be inappropriate in subclause (2). If it is your wish, we should delete the word “person” and insert “Chartered Accountant”.
Hon Chairman, the proposal is that in clause 39 (2), line 1, we delete “person” and insert “Chartered Accountant.”
Mr Quaittoo 2:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I agree with that but then, what would be the —?
Question put and amendment—
Mr Banda 2:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, just a minor typo; in subclause (3):
“A Chartered Accountant who practices”.
Mr Speaker, “c” in “practices” should be “s”.
Mr Quaittoo 2:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, looking at subclauses (1) and (2), is subclause (3) not redundant? It is the same as subclause (2).
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:11 a.m.
You may read out subclause (3) so we could compare.
Mr Quaittoo 2:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, it states and I quote with permission:
“A Chartered Accountant who practises during any period in which the licence to engage in public practice of accountancy or non-audit practice has expired, commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine of not less than two
hundred and fifty penalty units and not more than five thousand penalty units or to a term of imprisonment of not less than six months and not more than three years or to both”.
Mr Speaker, anytime when the licence is expired, is it different from subclause (1) which says that the person can only practice when he has the licence or if we come to subclause (2) where it is prescribing the penalties? I do not see any difference here.
Mr Banda 2:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the whole of clause 39(3) creates two scenarios; let us take particular examples: a person driving without a licence, which is an offence and a person driving with an expired licence. So, that is the scenario clause 39 (3) creates and it is making the two instances offences where a Chartered does not have a licence at all but in the case of subclause (3), the Chartered Accountant has a licence but the licence has expired. So, the expiry of his licence also tantamounts to an offence, and not having a licence at all is also an offence. So, the two scenarios are not the same; they are two completely different instances.
Mr Quaittoo 2:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, can someone call himself a Chartered
Accountant if he does not initially have a licence?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:11 a.m.
No, we are not dealing with Chartered Accountants, we are dealing with Chartered Accounts seeking to practise as public accounting practitioners. One is a Chartered Accountant, that is good, but, to be in the public space, one must obtain another licence. It is like having a drivers' licence but obtaining a commercial vehicle licence.
One is licenced to drive but when it comes to commercial licence, one must obtain another one. In some countries, that is how it is; that is the difference.
Mr Kpodo 2:11 a.m.
And subscriptions are also different. If one wants to practise, one pays higher annual subscription than when one is a member and is not in public practice.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 39 as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 40, 41 and 42 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:11 a.m.
Clause 43?
Mr Quaittoo 2:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 43, Headnote, after “Professional”, insert “indemnity”.
It actually reads:
“Professional indemnity insurance”.
Mr Quaittoo 2:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 43, subclause (1), line 1, after “professional”, insert “indemnity”.
Mr Ahiafor 2:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I was going to support the Chairman; in the insurance industry, the terminology is “professional indemnity insurance”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Quaittoo 2:11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 43, subclause (1), line 1, after “professional”, insert “indemnity”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 43 as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 44, 45, 46, 47, 48 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:11 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member for Atwima- Kwanwoma?
Dr Appiah-Kubi 2:21 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I just want to bring you back to clauses 39 and 42. If we look at clause 42, it deals with information to be provided to a client. And from the understanding of clause 39, there are two licences that need to be secured: one is that of a certificate that makes a person a Chartered Accountant and two is a valid licence that allows that person to engage in the public practice of accountancy. But here, the licence that allows that person to engage in public practice of accountancy is not provided to the client so the client may not know.

And whether that Chartered Accountant has a valid licence to engage in public practise or accountancy. So, I think that we need to add that information to it so that the Chartered Accountants would have to provide it to the clients.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:21 a.m.
Who is the public practitioner's client? That is the difference. This refers to only the private practitioner. The public practitioner is actually an
employee and not providing professional services as a service provider, so to speak. Hon Kpodo, am I right?
Mr Kpodo 2:21 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I did not get you clearly. Are you saying that a public practitioner is an employee?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:21 a.m.
If I understand you.
Mr Kpodo 2:21 a.m.
Mr Speaker, a public practitioner is the one who rather provides services to clients. He is chartered and has the licence to practise. They work for public companies as Auditors and Accountants and those are public practitioners. [Interruption]
A Chartered Accountant can be employed by Government but if he decides to have his own firm, that is the portion of his work which is private practice. However, the other one is employee.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:21 a.m.
What the Hon Member for Atwima Kwanwoma is saying is that clause 42 requires the Chartered Accountant to provide information to a client. He says that it is not being required to show that he is a licenced public practitioner.
I am wondering how it is different if you are a public practitioner. If you do not have the licence in the first place, you cannot practise in a public space . So here, you are supposed to provide the name of the firm, the place you do business, the names of the sole practitioner or partners, nationality and names. That is all. Your licence is not even required to be provided anywhere.
Dr Appiah-Kubi 2:21 a.m.
Mr Speaker, flowing from clause 39, the validity of a licence is important. You may have the licence but it may have expired and the client may not know whether the licence is even valid.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:21 a.m.
Are they not required to exhibit their licences in their offices? [Interruption] That is different from the information you provided. Is that right? There must be a place where you would exhibit your licence in your office. Clause 38 mentions display of licence for public practice of accountancy, so let us proceed.
Mr Agbodza 2:21 a.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 42 (d) says:
“d) the nationality, first names or initials, surname and ordinary residential address of the Chartered Accountant.”
Mr Quaittoo 2:21 a.m.
Mr Speaker, that is how the members of the Institute want it and I do not know why. That is a member sitting there. There is an old law that when this law comes into force it would be repealed. It is in that old law like that, so maybe that is how they want it. I do not know the rationale behind it.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:21 a.m.
You are promoting the law and bringing it before us. If they could not convince you there, why should we accept it here?
Mr Quaittoo 2:21 a.m.
Mr Speaker, we did not also question them when we engaged them.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:21 a.m.
Would the Hon Member for Ho Central be able to justify why an Accountant must provide their residential address to the client?
Mr Kpodo 2:21 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that in virtually all public documents, when you are providing information about yourself, they ask you for your residential address. Whether you are acquiring a passport, opening a bank account , you are completing an employment form, you would be asked for all these details. So, it is just in the normal course of identifying yourself that you would provide this information. There is nothing harmful about it. Even when you are registering to become a member of the Institute, you would need to provide that information.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:21 a.m.
I accept that as a member of the Institute, you provide that information to the Institute, but why should my client know where I live?
Mr Kpodo 2:21 a.m.
Mr Speaker, you are working with and for him. Maybe, you have a different contact number at home where in case of need the client can pick up the phone and call you. So, I do not think that there is anything harmful about providing this.
Mr Agbodza 2:21 a.m.
Mr Speaker, Hon Kpodo in his explanation should not forget that he is not the only one entitled to his home. I am saying that it is all right to provide details of your residential address, your parents among others when getting a passport and everybody knows that.
When you are getting employment in Parliament, you need to tell them everything about yourself and that is all right. If it is about me hiring for example, Hon Kpodo to work on my accounts for me and I demand his residential address. How is that supposed to be relevant information before I hire him?
Office address is fine, but we are not even talking about the person seeking employment with a govern- ment agency in which case it is normal that you need to provide your information. This is the first time I am seeing that somebody in private practice should provide details of their residential address to a client he might be with for six months or five months and it is over.
Your employer is different but a client in the public is quite -- [Interruption] There must have been a reason for this in the past but today, I do not think that anybody should be encouraged to do it. For example, I designed a building for somebody and I have to tell them my residential address. In case they do not understand something, they would come to my home and I am not the only one who lives there. I still insist that since the Hon Chairman cannot tell us conclusively why you need to provide your residential address, we should expunge it.
Mr Quaittoo 2:21 a.m.
Why would you want to conceal your residential address from someone you want money from or who you serve? Does it do any harm to tell somebody you want to serve and the person would pay you? For licence and other things, you provide your residential address and it is normal practise, so why do you not want to? Mr Speaker, I cannot support this change because they have their reason which I do not know.
Mr Ahiafor 2:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would urge the Hon Chairman of the Committee to accept the request made by Hon Agbodza. I am a professional lawyer and one thing I do not like is to wake up in the morning only for me to attend to clients at home.

Mr Speaker, doing that would even delay you from having access to those who are waiting for you in the office. So, professional work must be limited to non professional office and not the private home. We are talking about information to be provided to a client - once you entertain your client to your residential home - only for you to wake up in the morning to have extension of your office to your home.
Mr Quaittoo 2:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, honestly, all the institutes were present and they agreed to this.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:31 p.m.
Hon Chairman, they are not making the law, we are making the law.
Mr Quaittoo 2:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, yes, I understand but I do not see any harm that it would cause if we put this in the law. They should rather complain but here they have indicated it and they are not bothered.
Mr Speaker, these are Account- ants and they have put it there and are not bothered.
Mr Agbodza 2:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if I provide information about my residential address to the passport office that information is not shared
with the public because it is held and could only be utilised for specific reasons but this is a situation where we cannot guarantee the information we give about our residential address to a client. It should rather be the reverse. Before I would deal with a person and know whether he is legitimate or not, I should know more about that person.
Mr Speaker, if the Hon Chairman were to say this is based on something -- but the use of driver's licence and passport is far-fetched. There is a reason we provide our residential addresses when we seek to get drivers licence. That is very clear and we all provide it but with this particular one - a residential address to a client? For example, if a lawyer would represent somebody who is an alleged murderer, do we want to so say that it is all right for the lawyer to provide his or her residential address to the person? There must be some reasons but if it cannot be explained, we should expunge it.
Mr Quaittoo 2:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, they are comparing law to accountancy -- but the two are different things. In any case the President has just sent a message to say that if there is disagreement -- he is alone and has not consulted his people. This is not law. We know it is lawyers who do not even print complimentary cards
and they want us to print complementary cards because of the issues they have raised. An accountant who wants money from a client and decides to give his or her residential address -- and they say it should be changed. I do not see any harm in this.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:31 p.m.
The difference is that once it is put in the law, a practitioner is required by law to provide that. It is not the same thing as a person personally wants to put it on his or her complimentary card. That is to say that the person wants to deliberately give that information out but when it is made mandatory, that is where the challenge is.
Mr Nortsu-Kotoe 2:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have listened to the debate carefully especially, on the “ordinary residential address'' and I am of the view that we should delete “ordinary residen- tial'' and insert “official address''. This could resolve the matter.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:31 p.m.
Hon Member, it is already there.
Hon Member for Adaklu, propose the amendment?
Mr Agbodza 2:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move clause 42, paragraph (d), lines 1 and 2, after “surname'', delete
“ordinary residential address of the Chartered Accountant''.
Mr Ahiafor 2:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 42, paragraph (d) lines 1 and 2, delete “and ordinary residential address''.
The new rendition would be:
“the nationality, first names or initials and surname of the Chartered Accountant''.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Banda 2:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would want to propose an amendment with respect to the language of clause 42 (b) because it is not elegant enough.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 42, paragraph (b), line 1, after “the place'', delete “or places''.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:31 p.m.
Hon Member, because there may be offices at various locations.
Mr Banda 2:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, even if the offices would be many, the singular would still remain plural.
The second issue has to do with the sentence “in which the Chartered Accountant is in practice…''.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:31 p.m.
Hon Member, is it in reference to the firm? Is it “practicing in the firm or from the firm”? You only made mention of the place but it also talked about the firm.
Mr Banda 2:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, from the way that the construct has been made, it refers to the place of business.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:31 p.m.
Hon Member, or you want to refer to the place of the firm in which he practices?
Mr Agbodza 2:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with regard to my Hon Colleague's amendment to clause 42 paragraph (b), even if the firm has numerous locations, the person would work from a particular location. For example, a lawyer may have a firm in the Greater Accra Region but he could still handle a case in Takoradi. I do
not know why there should be “place'' or “or places'', in that particular rendition.

I just think it should:

“the place of business” of the firm in which he practises instead of “place or places”.

Even if one has 50 offices across the country, you may be designated --
Mr Bernard Ahiafor 2:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, just as we have lawyers who have firms in various locations even within Accra ; one may have a law firm in various locations; one in Accra and another in Kumasi and can be a managing partner for both law firms. So, one can operate from the two offices. Mr Speaker, so, the way it is here as “places of business” is proper.
Alhaji I. A. B. Fuseini 2:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this is being informed by requirements in law in the registration of companies that one provides for the principal place of business. If one provides for the principal place of business of the firm, even if the firm or company has branches, because they are branches of the same firm, and one is an employee at one of the branches, his or her information would be at the principal place of business.
Mr Speaker, there can only be one partnership if you are in partnership. If one is a sole proprietor, he or she can only have one office but he or she would maintain outposts. So, I think that what this one is trying to do is to provide for the principal place of business. If you are working at Law Trust, it has an office in Tamale but the principal place of business is at Adabraka. That is how it is. Even if one is in Tamale, his or her information would be at Adabraka.
Mr Bernard Ahiafor 2:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, assuming Hon Inusah Fuseini of Law Trust has a branch at Tamale and his principal place of business is in Accra, he would be in Tamale and meet a client if he has such a client on Thursday and Friday. It is only proper that he discloses to the client the principal place of his business and also for convenience sake make known where such a client can meet him and on what dates.
Mr Speaker, so, providing the Tamale and the Accra places of business would not be misplaced because we are talking about information to be provided to a client. For convenience sake, if he tells the client that on Mondays and Tuesdays, he is in the Tamale office; on Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays, he is in the Accra office, the client may
choose to meet him at his convenience at his Tamale office. Now, if he does not disclose the Tamale office, he is only telling the client that his principal place of business is in Accra. It means that though it is convenient for the client to meet him on Monday and Tuesday in Tamale, the client only knows your principal place of business to be in Accra. So, for the reasons given, there is nothing wrong if we have a place of business other than the main place of business and it would be for convenience sake that he would have to disclose that to a client.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:41 p.m.
Hon Members, there is no proposed amendment before me, so, I would proceed.
Clause 48 -- Appointment of Chief Executive Officer
Mr Kpodo 2:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 48, headnote, delete “Appointment of”.
I think we should remove “Appointment of” and just keep it “Chief Executive Officer”. We can also make it “Chief Executive Officer of the Institute” but I would want us to just limit it to “Chief Executive Officer”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:41 p.m.
Hon Chairman of the Committee, clause 48, he is proposing that we delete “Appointment of” from the headnote and just have “Chief Executive Officer”.
Mr Quaittoo 2:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, there are several Bills that we have done that way. So I think we can go by that.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:41 p.m.
Hon Member for Ho Central, you did not justify why we should delete “Appointment of”. Why can it not be “Appointment of Chief Executive Officer”?
Mr Kpodo 2:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the three subclauses there talks about different things:
“The Institute shall have a Chief Executive Officer”.
Then, with your permission subclause (3) of clause 48 states:
“The Chief Executive Officer shall hold office on the terms and conditions specified in the letter of appointment.”
Mr Speaker, it is only subclause (2) of clause 48 that talks about appointing the Chief Executive Officer. So, the rest is about the Chief
Executive Officer; I do not think there is need to specifically state the appointment of the Chief Executive Officer. The clause one creates the position; two appoints the Chief Executive Officer; and three determines how long he or she should stay in office. If we limit it to “Appointment of Chief Executive Officer” as the headnote, it does not take care of everything that is in the subclauses in there.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:41 p.m.
Hon Chairman of the Committee on Constitutional, Legal and Parlia- mentary Affairs, I even have a problem with clause 48(2). If you start from clause 48(1), it reads:
“48 (1) The Institute shall have a Chief Executive Officer.
(2) The Council shall appoint a person who is a Chartered Accountant and a member of the Institute as the Chief Executive Officer…”.
What do we want to talk about in the subclause (2)? Is it the appointment or the membership of the person who is to be made the Chief Executive Officer?
Mr Chireh 2:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this is a professional body, so it is not just a manager we want to head the place but somebody who has the qualification and that is why it has been couched this way. Unless the person is a Chartered Accountant, he or she cannot be the Chief Executive Officer.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:41 p.m.
Hon Members, Can it be simplified this way?
“The Chief Executive Officer shall be a member of the Institute.”
Mr Chireh 2:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, there is no need to delete the “Appointment of” because there is an appointment being made. For the headnote, it is just indicative of what is there; it is not to repeat the provision itself or, as he is saying, if we just say, “Chief Executive Officer”, what about the Chief Executive officer? Indeed, this particular clause talks about the appointment and once it mentions appointment, I do not think that we should delete it.
Mr Bernard Ahiafor 2:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, headnotes or marginal notes are supposed to be a guide to interpretation and, by mere look at the headnote, it should tell you what the provision is even about.
Mr Speaker, if we look at the provision, it is about the appointment of a Chief Executive Officer. So there is nothing wrong with the headnote. So, I would urge the Hon Kpodo to drop his amendment.

Mr Speaker, then, on clause 48(2), my understanding is that the person to be appointed must,(1) be a Chartered Accountant, (2) be a member of the Institute to qualify for the appointment as a Chief Executive Officer.

Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my little observation is that I guess the Chief Executive Officer who must be a chartered accountant, should have some experience.
I was thinking that clause 48 would specify a minimum period of post - qualification experience but there is nothing. The Hon Chairman probably did not find it convenient to introduce such post - qualification experience. At least, there should have been a minimum period of about five or six years.
Mr Speaker, can we have the circumstances? We can have a person qualifying and in just the same year,
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:51 p.m.
What is your view Hon Member for Wa West?
Mr Chireh 2:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we would normally give the chief executive officers qualification - but as professional, what the Hon Majority Leader is talking about, we can add it but that means we are further narrowing the issue.
However, if the person is a chartered accountant and a member of the institute, it means that he has the basic qualification. So, what do we want a chief executive to do? Mr Speaker, I believe that we can leave that out or add it, that will be burdening the President with the appointment in terms of qualification.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 2:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, even though you have put the Question, I would respectfully ask the Hon Chairman to do further consultations on this whereas the Hon Member for Wa West is suggesting - - [Interruption] - Mr Speaker, let us look at clause 49 which provides for the functions of the chief executive officer. With your permission it says:
“The chief executive officer is responsible for the day-to-day administration of the institute”.
Mr Speaker, so it is not one person who should just come from nowhere, there should be some experience but I do not want to say from the top of my head that we should have a minimum post-qualification experience of five years. We may have to have further consultations with the practitioners.Although you have put the Question to it and we have agreed, maybe, if it becomes necessary to add to it, we can take it during the Second Consideration Stage. I want the Hon Chairman to have further consultations on that.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:51 p.m.
Very well. We will proceed.
Mr Kpodo 2:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that we should not restrict the Council to any number of years of experience. A chief executive officer is the manager and administrator of the Institute and normally, when that position becomes vacant, a search committee is constituted to determine the terms and advertise it. When people apply, they shortlist and interview the selected applicants and then come out with recommendations to the Council.
The Council can ask for two or three recommendations from the search committee and then they will determine whom to choose. It is not normally an appointment to a Board where we will say that, that person should have so many years of post-
qualification experience. Also, here, the person is going to face a panel which will enquire into their career experience before a recommendation is made to the Council for the council members to select. Mr Speaker, so, if we insert the number of years, in the law, I think we might be restricting the search party that the Council may appoint to fill in the position. So, it is not necessary.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:51 p.m.
Hon Member, we have already put the Question.
Mr Quaittoo 2:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think it is all right. I think that the interview process will take care of the number of years‘ of experience and so, we can leave it as it is.
Clauses 49 to 55 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 56 -- Accounts and audits
Mr Quaittoo 2:51 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 56(2), line 2, delete “three months” and insert “ninety days”
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 56 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr Quaittoo 3:01 p.m.


Mr Speaker, the moment we begin to segment it that we require three months then the period for the Auditor-General is then divided up so he has just three months within which to audit. The language of the Constitution is that they shall audit it within six months. So, let us just say that ‘the Council shall submit the account of the Institute to the Auditor- General for audit at the end of the financial year'. This is what we have been doing so why do we have to introduce this new phraseology?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:01 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, so your proposed amendment is to delete “three months”?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, yes.
An Hon Member 3:01 p.m.
The Constitution says three months.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:01 p.m.
The Constitution does not say three
Mr Kpodo 3:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 56(2) reads: “The Council shall submit the account of the Institute to the Auditor-General”. I think we should change the “account” to ‘financial statements'.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:01 p.m.
Hon Member, we said that we would use the language of the Constitution.
Mr Kpodo 3:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, but the Constitution is a living document.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:01 p.m.
Unfortunately, you and I cannot change what is in the Constitution.
Mr Kpodo 3:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, but they would not submit accounts because they would submit financial statements which is more comprehensive than accounts. Mr Speaker, developments in the industry informs these terminologies and we have used it in several other laws so why are we not using it in this law?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:01 p.m.
Hon Members, let us come to a conclusion on this.
Mr Quaittoo 3:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, let us adopt the constitutional language so the rendition would be: ‘The Council shall submit the accounts of the Institute to the Auditor-General for audit at the end of the financial year'.
Mr Iddrisu 3:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to refer you to article 187(5) of the Constitution. There is a reason for us to keep it “within three months” because the Auditor-General has within six months after the end of the immediate preceding financial year to which each of the accounts mentioned in clause 2 of this article relates, to submit his report to Parliament.
So we want to divide it into two; this institution would submit their accounts at least within three months and then the Auditor-General would have within six months to submit same to Parliament. It would not be neat enough to leave it open. They would have up to three months to prepare an account, submit it to the Auditor- General and the Auditor-General in compliance with article 187(5) of the Constitution has within six months to submit it.
Mr Speaker, I think that the original rendition in the Bill should be maintained. Thank you.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:01 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we have been moving forward and backward on this. We agreed that it is not for nothing that the Constitution stipulates that the Auditor-General has within six months to work and submit a report to Parliament.
The moment we do the proposal in the Bill, we would limit the time of the Auditor-General to three months and not six months. Let us leave it that at the end of the financial year they should submit the accounts to the Auditor-General and the Auditor- General would still have the six months within which he would do his work and submit the report to Parliament.
Mr Speaker, sometimes in some administrative procedures that they do, they would submit within two months to the Auditor-General but we do not have to legislate that they have three months within which to submit the report to the Auditor-General. This House has taken a decision on this and in all the laws that we have done we have kept to this. We should not alter what we have been doing.
Mr Chireh 3:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the two Hon Leaders are engaging in a constitutional argument but the issue is that Parliament by its own decision can prescribe time limit. We are not saying that the people should wait until three months, rather it should be submitted within three months and it can even be in January. Mr Speaker, we are guiding the Institute on when their accounts should be ready and submitted. If they do it within three months then it would facilitate the audit to be carried out, but if we just leave it and they send it in May, they would still have complied because we said at the end of the year.
Mr Speaker, we are just guiding them as to how they can do it.
Mr Nortsu-Kotoe 3:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, for the sake of consistency, clause 20(2) of the Real Estate Agency Bill, 2020 reads:
“The Board shall submit the accounts of the Council to the Auditor-General for audit within three months after the end of the financial year.”
So we imported the same thing into this Bill because the tradition is there.
Mr Ahiafor 3:01 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would support the Hon Majority Leader that it should be the end of the financial
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:11 p.m.
Yes, Hon Minority Leader?
Mr Iddrisu 3:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, Hon Majority Leader says it is for consistency. And so for consistency
there is a Real Estate Agency Council Bill, 2020. But it is to submit a report, and there is a time period for the report except that in this report, it says at the end.
And so let us allow the time period, but at the end. Then it would be an improvement of both positions, and we would make progress on the annual reports.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, they are talking about two things. He is talking about annual reports which is different. [Interruption] That is what he just said. He said annual reports which is different from the audit report. That is the first.
Secondly, the Bill they are citing has not been passed by this Parliament. So they are citing the wrong one. [Interruption] I am saying the Bill he is holding has not been passed by this House.
Mr Iddrisu 3:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I can understand that we are not making you progress. Let us make progress. Clause 20 of the Real Estate Agency Bill, 2020 which is on accounts and audits reads:
“The Board shall submit the accounts of the Council to the Auditor-General for audit within
three months after the end of the financial year.”
Mr Speaker, we can maintain same in this Bill. He is confusing the Council from the Auditor-General. This is the Council preparing their accounts and submitting it to the Auditor-General. It is not the same. When the Auditor- General, under article 187(5) has six months to submit it.
The Hon Majority Leader should be consistent. The fact that he was not here on Friday does not mean what the House did must be corrected by him. Who asked him to go to Suame?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:11 p.m.
Yes, I am waiting for a decision to be agreed upon or consensus to be reached.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, listen to the Hon Minority Leader. He says that let us grant them three months to submit to the Auditor- General and thereafter, the Auditor- General would have six months within which to act. That is where he is wrong because if the Auditor-General has six more months to work, it would take him to September. [Interruption]
Mr Speaker, so if that is what obtained in the Real Estate Agency Council Bill, it means we would have to amend it, we have passed 93 Bills in this House from 2017 till now. Let them show me one example.
Mr Chireh 3:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Leader does not want us to finish this Bill early. I beg him.
With this one, we have passed several Bills here, and they have the same rendition. Sometimes we adopt it. If he would want to change it, he should negotiate with us. He cannot just come and change it unilaterally. It is not good.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:11 p.m.
Yes, Hon Chairman?
Mr Quaittoo 3:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it must necessarily be submitted at the end of the financial year. Normally, with a number of Bills we have passed in this House, we gave a definite -- [Interruption]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:11 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, kindly move your amendment.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move that it should just read:
Mr Iddrisu 3:11 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with your leave and the indulgence of the House, I just want your guidance. With this uproar in the public space when these fees and charges are done, we are giving the mandate to the Council to determine the fees and levies. Does this House have a role as Parliament, assuming they charge fees and accountants throughout the country are not happy with it, what happens? Or if they charge the fees without proper consultation, what happens?
I like the way fees and levies are couched, but there is no role for us as an institution that reflect and mirror the needs and aspirations of the
citizens. If accountants are charged to pay an amount and tomorrow the amount is changed, and accountants cannot pay or have difficulty sustaining that payment, what can we do as an institution?
Mr Speaker, should we leave it as it is so that in future --?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:11 p.m.
I think professional bodies generally regulate their own fees and levies. We are only giving legal backing to their practice.
Clauses 58 to 60 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 61 -- Rules and procedures
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:11 p.m.
Yes, Hon Minority Leader?
Mr Iddrisu 3:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the second line of clause 61(1), “relating to or connected with the functions”, are we not being repetitive? “Relating to” is the same as “connected with”. We should use one. If we use both, we are being tautological in my view. Unless the modern draftpersons want to convince me.
“The Council shall make rules and procedure for any matter connected with the functions of the Council under this Act.”
Mr Speaker, that is a better reading. We do not say, “relating to or connect to”. [Interruption] -- It cannot be the two. So the words, “connected to” must be deleted.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think “relate” is better than “connected” in the context. This is because if we look at the long title, it says:
“This Act establishes the Institute of Chartered Accounts to promote the study of Accountancy to regulate the accountancy profession and practice and to provide for related matters.”
Mr Speaker, I was asking whether in the context, it should be “for any matter relating to” or “any matter related to the functions”?
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 61 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:21 p.m.
The draftspersons are directed to select the appropriate rendition in respect of “relating to”.
Clause 62 - Regulations
Mr Iddrisu 3:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with your leave and indulgence, clause 62(b), “prescribe the requirements” not “… for requirements”.
“prescribe the requirements for qualification as a member of the Institute”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Iddrisu 3:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 62(d), “prescribe reports …” Somewhere along the line in the Bill, I saw them introduce “returns”. Are reports the same as returns? If they are to prescribe reports to be submitted, what of returns? This is because in Accounting --
“prescribe reports to be submitted in relation to the public practice of Accountancy”.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the issue here was raised by the Hon Minority Leader in respect
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:21 p.m.
Can that be accommodated under (i), “provide for any other matter necessary for the effective and efficient implementation of this Act”?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I know that but that omnibus phraseology is only used there when one cannot think far. But when we can identify the matters, we better replace them because I think it is a very important matter that they may have to contend with.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:21 p.m.
Look at 58(3):
“The Council may, with the approval of the members at an Annual General Meeting of the Institute, prescribe special levies to be paid by members to finance specific projects”.
Mr Ahiafor 3:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if we put prescription of the levies and fees under clause 62, then it means that we are telling them that for the annual
prescription fee, they must come to this House every year with a Regulation to be able to do that. So the previous provision states that at their annual general meeting, they do that particular determination and the annual general meeting would be attended by the members where the Council with the members would give that particular prescription.
Other than that, if we put it under clause 62, then we are saying that every year, the determination of the annual prescription fee and the levy must be by way of Regulation which must come here every year. So we cannot put it under clause 62.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, before fees and levies could be charged, they must be put in the statute, which is what has been done in clause 58. Now, clause 58(1) provides:
“The fees and levies payable under this Act shall be prescribed by the Council and paid to the Institute.”
The Hon Minority Leader then raised issues about the quantum and whether it may not raise issues that perhaps would occasion the writing of petitions and so on and it is the reason I was proposing that it finds expression in clause 62. The fees and
charges are not going to be prescribed by the instrument but the guidelines for the fixing is what we are talking about. So we could say:
“the Minister shall in consultation with the Council by legislating this instrument, make regulations to prescribe the guidelines for the fixing of the fees and levies payable under this Act”.
Mr Speaker, that is what I am thinking of.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:21 p.m.
Members of the other professional bodies - the Institute of Architects, the Bar Association, do we have any legislation by which fees and levies are determined?
Mr Nortsu-Kotoe 3:21 p.m.
Mr Speaker, per the Hon Majority Leader's position, if we do so, we would be tying the hands of the Institute. If we look at the Chartered Institute of Taxation that we passed, a similar thing is there and it is making the work very difficult for them so that they cannot even increase their annual subscriptions and it is affecting the running - it means they have to come back to Parliament. That is the problem they are facing. So if we do so and we want to put it under “Regulations”, I think it would create
challenges for them in the management of the fees and levies.
Mr Chireh 3:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, what the Hon Ranking Member said is very important. This is because these are professional bodies that we are just proposing the corporate principles for because we are passing a law.

But the Government of Ghana will not give them any money, and yet we are tying them to the rules of what will obtain and with those which we have already passed, they are having the same difficulty. That is why we should relax a little bit with what we are doing for them. Unless Government would give them money, they have their ways of raising the funds and they have been running their Institute. We should let them be seen to be regulating that one to an extent that they cannot function. That is really our concern.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, there is distinction. In the one that the Hon Member referred to, the Regulations prescribed the fees and levies. This is not what is being advocated here.
In clause 58, the Council has the authority to prescribe the fees and levies payable. All that we are saying is that the Minister in consultation with
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, for the avoidance of doubt, my amendment is dropped.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:31 p.m.
Yes, it was not voted upon.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, when you said, “amended”, it may be misconstrued that is why I am just coming in for the avoidance of doubt.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:31 p.m.
Hon Leader, there is one amendment by the Hon Minority Leader which was adopted.
Clause 62 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 63- Interpretation
Mr Quaittoo 3:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 63, interpretation of “FCA (Hons)”, delete.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Kpodo 3:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I proposed that in clause 56, we should change “the account” to “financial statement” and the response that it is a constitutional language.
Now, in order to specify what the accounts will do, I would want us to define it under interpretation, so as to take care of what is actually contained in what we are constitutionally describing as accounts. I would want to move that we define accounts in the interpretation sections as the financial statement and then we list all of the items that constitute what should be given to the Auditor- General for audit. I would move that accounts will include statement of financial position, comprehensive income, cash flow statement, and notes to the account. All these items each constitute what -- [Interruption] -- but they are there. We know them all. [Interruption]
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 63, “accounts” -- means financial statements which comprise the following: statement of financial position, comprehensive income
statement …”-- [Interruption] -- I will write it for you after we have - [Interruption] -- All right, I will do so.
Mr Chireh 3:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, when we were doing the Companies Act, all these definitions were incorporated there. We are not doing an accounting Act; we are creating an Institution. Therefore to take a constitutional position and interpret the meaning, will it be in accordance with the Constitution?
Mr Speaker, the laws that we have made so, if they are amendable, we normally adopt the most recent terms and terminologies that are used in the rendition, and we did that with the Companies Act.
The Hon Member was there and we argued about all these things and we incorporated them there. Even if he wants the definition, he should refer to the Companies Act where the most modern ones were included. But what he has defined, apparently, we all understand. We are now going to define what they are to submit then we add new words to what we all understand. That is not fair. We did not use those words. So, I beg him. He is a member of the Institute, but the way he is going about the things, I beg him.
Mr Ahiafor 3:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would once again urge Hon Kpodo who is a member of the Institute to drop his proposed amendment, because it is being influenced by the current terminology used by International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS)
I told him that the accounts that he referred to in the Constitution is what is otherwise referred to in the current standard as financial statement. So, it creates no ambiguity in the minds of the people who will be preparing the accounts as to what they should do. So we are better off going by the language of the Constitution, but not necessarily the language of the International Financial Reporting Standard (IFRS).
Mr Speaker, I support Hon Yieleh Chireh that we should not do anything regarding the interpretation of accounts.
Mr Kpodo 3:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not agree with Hon Ahiafor. In earlier bills which we passed in this House, we defined these things clearly as financial statements -- [Interpretation] -- So, if we are now reverting to a constitutional phrase as accounts, who will understand that when he or she takes this law? -- [Interpretation] -- if this becomes a law. If a reader or prospective student takes it, he would be wondering what accounts is.
Mr Kpodo 3:31 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if he is reading it, he will not know what accounts is. He would be wondering what accounts it is.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:31 p.m.
Hon Member, that person would not be fit to work with our Constitution. I am sure.
Mr Kpodo 3:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, so I think all the laws that we have made, we have sufficiently led or guided people to understand that is why we have the interpretation section. I am still on the point that we should define what we refer to as accounts in the Constitution.
Mr Speaker, I have spoken with the people of the Institute. Just as we were doing this, I spoke with them. They want financial statement, but you are insisting on accounts because that is what is in the Constitution which was drawn in 1992.

We are now dealing with IFRS, which says that we should use financial statements, but he is saying we should stick to the “account” without even defining it. A student who is preparing to qualify would not understand what

we mean. That is why I am saying that if we cannot abandon that constitutional language, then we must define what we mean by “accounts”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:41 p.m.
Hon Members, there is no proposed amendment before me now, so, I would put the Question.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 63 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 64 is ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 65 -- Transitional provisions.
Mr Banda 3:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just want us to advert our minds to clause 65, which deals with transitional provisions. I realised that under clause 4 of the Bill on page 6, a new Council, comprising a new membership, is being constituted. I also realised that under the transitional provisions, there is in existence, a Council which is regulated by the Chartered Accountants Act, 1963 (Act 170).
Throughout the transitional provisions, this Council, which is the existing Council, with the coming into force of this new Council, is not being
dissolved. So I thought that once we would have a new Council, we should seek to dissolve the existing Council under the transitional provisions. That is point number one.
Mr Speaker, clause 65 reads and I quote with permission 3:41 p.m.
“The Council of the Institute established under the Institute of Chartered Accountants Act, 1963 (Act 170) existing before the coming into force of this Act shall continue in office until the expiration of the term of office of the Council.”
Mr Speaker, if we look at the language of clause 65 (1), it does not seek to dissolve the Council, but it rather says that the members of the Council, upon the coming into force of this Bill, would continue until their term of office has come to an end. However, I also realised that under clause 4, a new Council has been constituted, but the existing Council under the transitional provision is not being dissolved. I see that the phrase, “shall continue in office until the expiration of the term of office of the Council” refers to the members of the Council -- the existing Council.
Mr Chireh 3:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the issue here is that they were elected or appointed into the Council. So, with
the way this law is passed, it means that they would continue to serve as if they were still appointed. So, for instance, if they were appointed under Act 170, then they would continue their term, so that when it expires, then the new set of people would have to be appointed according to this Act, and perhaps, if there are even changes which I am not aware of, then they would be given a certain period in office before they start again.
If we do not do that, it means that as soon as we pass this law, we have dissolved the Council, and that is why it is transitional. They have to see the date, and know that their term of office is over, during which period they would be able to take steps to put in place all the things that we have now put in this new Bill. We do not need to dissolve them. In fact, the dissolution is by the expiration of their term of office.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:41 p.m.
Hon Members, the Council was under Act 170, and Act 170 is repealed. So, that Council has no legal basis to exist. However, we are saving the members and charging them to continue till the term for which they were appointed under the old law expires. So, the Council ceases to exist, otherwise, there would be no need to give them the extension under the transitional provisions.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:41 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have a minor observation. This Institute of Chartered Accountants Act of 1963, has been in existence for so long a time, that is, for almost 60 years now. Subclause (2) of clause 64 provides: “Despite the repeal of Act 170, any regulations, by-law, notice, order, directive, instruction, appointment or any other act lawfully made or done by the Institute of Chartered Accountants established under Act 170…” What I see missing is the word “rule”. They might have perhaps made some rules, so, I propose that we include the word “rule” in clause 64 (2) to read:
“Despite the repeal of Act 170, any regulations, rule, by-law, notice, order, directive, instruction, appointment or any other act lawfully made or done by the Institute of Chartered Accountants established under Act 170…”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:51 a.m.
Hon Members, the proposed amendment is to insert the word “rule”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.

Clause 64 as amended, ordered as part of the Bill.

Clause 65 as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First Schedule, Second Schedule and Third Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Hon Members, I intend to defer the consideration of the Fourth Schedule; it is almost four o'clock. We can do that tomorrow.

That brings us to the end of the consideration stage of the Institute of Chartered Accountants Ghana, Bill, 2020 for today.

Hon Majority Leader, if you have any announcement we would take it

now, otherwise, I will bring proceedings to a close.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 3:51 a.m.
Mr Speaker, if there is any announcement to make, it would be to welcome you back and to congratulate you for your endurance.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 3:51 a.m.
Very well, the House is adjourned to Tuesday, 27th October, 2020 at 10 o'clock in the forenoon.
ADJOURNMENT 3:51 a.m.
  • The House was adjourned at 3.54 p. m. till Tuesday, 27th October, 2020 at 10.00 a. m.