Debates of 28 Oct 2010

MADAM SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:10 a.m.
ANNOUNCEMENTS 10:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Hon Members, I have the pleasure to introduce to you, members of the Public Accounts Committee from the Parliament of the Republic of Sierra Leone, who are here on an official visit to Ghana.
Hon Members, they are here to interact with members of our Public Accounts Committee. The delegation comprises the following:
1. Hon Victor Chukuma Johnson -- Member of Parliament, Leader of delegation
2. Hon Komba Kodoyoma -- Member of Parliament
3 . Hon Mohammed Kanu -- Member of Parliament
4. Hon Mohammed S. Kargbo -- Member of Parliament
5. Hon Elizabeth Alpha Lavalie -- Member of Parliament
6. Hon Alice Foyah -- Member of Parliament
7 . Hon Hassan B. Sherr i f -- Member of Parliament
8. Hon Paramount Chief Sallieu Lugbu -- Member of Parliament
9. Hon Ibrahim Bundu -- Member of Parliament
10. Hon Matthew Timbo -- Member of Parliament
11 . H o n A u g u s t i n e To r t o - - Member of Parliament
1 2 . M r s P r i n c e s s Johnson-- Representa t ive , Ministry of Finance
13. Mr David Saffa -- Clerk to the Committee
Hon Members, I, on your behalf, wish
them a pleasant stay in the country and a fruitful deliberation.
You are welcome.
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker 10:10 a.m.
Hon Members, we are going to item 2 - Correction of Votes and Proceedings of Wednesday, 27th October, 2010.
Page 1...3 -
Alhaji Ibrahim Dey Abubakari 10:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my name is spelt wrongly - “Abubakari”, it is not “Abukari”; that is page 1, number 4 - it is “Abubakari”.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 10:10 a.m.
“Abu”; so it is not “Au”?
Alhaji Abubakari 10:10 a.m.
It is A-B-U-B-A- K-A-R-I, “Abubakari”.
Madam Speaker 10:10 a.m.
That is all right; that will be corrected.
Yes, we have finished with page 3. Any more corrections?
Page 4...5 -
Mr Albert Abongo 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, my name has been captured wrongly on page 5, item 4, number 2. It is spelt “Abono Albert”; it is “Abongo Albert”. And the constituency is “Bongo” and not “Bogo.”
Madam Speaker, I was at a committee meeting yesterday at the Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA) but then I have been captured here as being absent. I do not know if that is in order.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Yesterday we did discuss this difficulty. You did not tell anybody you were going to the meeting; did you? At least, you should have told the Clerks who mark that you were going to a meeting that would be -
Mr Abongo 10:20 a.m.
But then, Madam Speaker, it was a committee programme and I did not go there on my own. Maybe, in the future, we should find a way of capturing from the committee or the committee should be able to report that these committee members are on this programme at this location.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
The Clerks to take note; he was doing committee work. Absence with permission or what? You were still absent in the House, were you not? What correction did you want? “Absent with permission” or what? All right. So let us finish with this -
Pages 6 . . . 10 -
Mr P. C. Appiah-Ofori 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, yesterday, I was in this House when the Education Bill was being considered but my name appeard as having been absent.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
What page are you referring to?
Mr Appiah-Ofori 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I am taking you back to page 6. I was present.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Yes, Clerk, Hon P.C. Appiah-Ofori was not absent; correct it.
Mr Appiah-Ofori 10:20 a.m.
Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. That is why I like you.
Mr Stephen Yakubu 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I was here yesterday but my name seems not to appear anywhere. So if that can be
corrected.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
So what is the name,
then?
Mr Yakubu 10:20 a.m.
Hon Stephen Yakubu, Binduri. It shouild be corrected.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
All right -- Hon Yakubu Stephen, Binduri, 191, was that not you? Was that you? All right. So your name is there.
Page 13, 14 --
Mr William O. Boafo 10:20 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, on page 14 (xxxii), it appears as if the amendment proposed was agreed to but the debate was deferred and to support my observation, if Madam Speaker looks at the Order Paper for today, on page 4 (iii), clause 12. It is still on the Order Paper for consideration.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Yes. So it was not agreed to? It was deferred?
Mr Boafo 10:20 a.m.
It was deferred, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
So it should be “Question proposed: debate arising.”
Mr Boafo 10:20 a.m.
Yes, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
And then debate deferred; is that what you want?
Mr Boafo 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, if you look at how it is couched in the Votes and Procedings it says that “Question proposed: debate arising; debate deferred.”
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Was it not debated at all?
Mr Boafo 10:20 a.m.
It was extensively debated.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
So it means you did not finish with the debate?
Mr Boafo 10:20 a.m.
No, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
So was it - Is it wrong to capture it that way? “Debate arising” then “debate deferred” or “further debate deferred.” You wanted the word “further” there?
Mr Boafo 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I will leave it to the Table Office to see how best they can look at it.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
You are correcting it and that is why I am soliciting your views which correction -
Mr Boafo 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I will couch it as “Question proposed: debate arising; debate deferred.”
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
“Further debate” because you started the debate.
Mr Boafo 10:20 a.m.
We started the debate.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Once you started and you deferred it at a point, if you say “debate deferred”, it means it was not started at all. Exactly what happened there? I was not there but if you put it that way, I get the impression that it was not debated at all. So probably, “Further debate deferred”.
Mr Boafo 10:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I will yield to “deferred” -
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Well, we will also send it to the Clerk - to do justice to it.
Mr Boafo 10:20 a.m.
Very well.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
All right. Thank you for that. So we will move on Page 15. . . 21 -- [Pause.]
Hon Members , the Votes and Proceedings of Wednesday, 27th October, 2010 as corrected is adopted as the true record of proceedings.
There are no Official Reports for today and so we move on to item 3 - Urgent Question. Is the Hon Minister here, Dr Oteng-Adjei? Leader, is the Hon Minister of Energy here?
Mr Cletus A. Avoka 10:20 a.m.
That is so, Madam Speaker. The Hon Minister is available.
Madam Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Can he come, so we would put the Questions?
The first Question stands in the name of Hon Ahmed Ibrahim, Member of Parliament for Tain.
URGENT QUESTIONS 10:30 a.m.
MINISTRY OF ENERGY 10:30 a.m.
Minister for Energy (Dr Joe Oteng- Adjei) 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the black fly population within the project area became a major problem to the Bui Hydroelectric Project when the contractor's expatriate workers expressed serious health concerns about the effects of being bitten by these flies.
The Bui Power Authority (BPA) consulted the technical experts of Ghana Health Service, Centre for Scientific and Industrial Research and Noguichi Memorial Institute who have recommended the pursuit of control programme to deal with the menace. These bodies will be available to support the implementation of the programme.
The Black Fly Nuisance Control Programme has been segmented into short and long-term plans and it includes the following:
Preliminary studies covering the survey to determine breeding sites, selection of catching points and selection of treatment points for ground larvicides.
Larviciding, which entails spraying into the water in the rivers and streams some distance above the identified breeding sites.
Protection against black fly bites at the individual level.
Community mass distribution of appropriate medicine
Informat ion , educat ion and c o m m u n i c a t i o n a m o n g t h e communities within the catchment area of the project.
Madam Speaker, we expect these activities to start after the end of the 2010 rainy season. The estimated cost of the proposed intervention over the next three years is GH¢750,000. The Ministry of Energy has advanced GH¢250,000 for BPA to begin the control programme.
Mr Ahmed Ibrahim 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, . I rise to ask the Hon Minister, as he rightly said, the expatriate workers were threatening to go back but we the residents in the place have nowhere to go and this is a serious problem for us. The project was given to people to spray on, as per the measures he has enumerated, but this is not yielding good results. As I am talking now, farmers cannot go to farm; even if one is in his house, you cannot attend to nature's call. Would he consider another option?
I can remember, according to yesterday's Daily Graphic -- they said there were some measures or some programme instituted for 20 years spraying that has elapsed, but the programme became worse again. Can we consider going back renewing the area spraying programme that we had been embarking upon for the last 20 years?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I indicated that we consulted all the technical people that do have knowledge
in this area. We concede that it is not an energy issue, that is why we consulted the Ministry of Health and Noguichi. We are working with the programme that they put for us. If the Hon Member is saying that it is not yielding the appropriate results, I have taken note of that and I will work with my team on that.
Madam Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Hon Member, any other question?
Mr Ahmed Ibrahim 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, very soon I will be going home. Because of this issue, I cannot stay there. How soon should the people of Tain Constituency expect a solution to the black fly problem?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I believe I said that the Ministry had already advanced GH¢250,000 to ensure that they continued with the programme. I also indicated that the team advised that, in the rainy season, we would never get the results that we would need, and that we would continue with the programme once the rains are over. I think that this is a message that I would like the Hon Member to take to the people and assure them that we would work assidiously to ensure that his concerns are addressed by our team.
Mr Ahmed Ibrahim 10:30 a.m.
Thank you Madam Speaker, for the answer.
Alhaji Seidu Amadu 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in Answer to the Question posed to the Hon Minister, he did indicate that he had had consultation with the Ministry of Health, the Noguichi Memorial Medical Centre and the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research. I want to find out from him, whether indeed, this black fly is the same black fly that is associated with onchocerciasis disease.
Dr Oteng-Adjei 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I have taken note of the question. I am not an expert and I would never intend
Dr Kofi Asare 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, it is the black fly which causes the onchocerciasis disease in Bui, that area, we had those problems -- [Interruption] -- if a Ghanaian says that the Hon Member has real cause, then it is believed that -[Interruptions.] But it is the black fly which causes the onchocerciasis disease.
Mr C. S. Hodogbey 10:30 a.m.
Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving me the opportunity.
The Question was very specific relating to nuisance; I would like to know from the Hon Minister what hydrological impediments or health hazards do these black flies cause to impede on the construction of the dam.
Madam Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Hon Minister, did you get the question? If not --
Dr Oteng-Adjei 10:30 a.m.
No.
Madam Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Yes, put your question again, very clearly for him to understand.
Mr Hodogbey 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Question was very specific; it came out with a word, and the key word was “nuisance”. In the Hon Minister's Answer, he said he had solicited the help of the Ministry of Health. So I am asking, since it is a construction of a dam, what hydrological impediments or health hazards do these black flies cause to impede on the construction of the dam?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 10:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I believe that the issue is that, when you have all these flies round you and you are working, they create an impediment
in the sense that you do not have the full concentration to work and it is upon that that when the people complained, we came in and worked with the experts in the country and they put up the programme and cost it for us.
On that basis, we have paid and they are working on it. We believe that once they are doing the spraying, the number of flies within the area, especially their breeding places would have been eliminated and that would give them the freedom to work without the fear of being bitten by these flies.
Dr Matthew O. Prempeh 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, this problem has existed, like my Hon Colleague said, for the last twenty years. It is not a problem with the Ministry of Energy; it is the main problem of the Ministry of Health. Why is the Hon Minister for Energy putting forward moneys that have not been budgeted for to the tune of GH¢250,000 for a problem that is basically not his doing and not under the purview of his Ministry?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
precisely, the fact that I have the project there, the object of that project is to give us 400 megawatts. The amount of money we are spending there is about US$620 million. As a Ministry that has the responsibility of ensuring that we have adequate capacity in the system, I cannot wait and delay the project, and that is why we have made a contribution to ensure that the project goes on, so that anybody who was instrumental in bringing that project, would also be happy that we are pushing the project forward.
Alhaji Ibrahim D. Abubakari 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, if I heard the Hon Minister very well, he said that during the rainy season, they could do very much

and it was rather the dry season. But the breeding effect of that particular fly is in the rainy season; so if they cannot do much in the rainy season, how can they wipe out the fly? I just want him to answer me because it is the rainy season that you get the flies breeding so much and if they cannot do much in the rainy season, how can they do that in the dry season and get them out?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I have been advised that the moment you do the spraying and then it rains, it washes the chemicals away, and it does not have the impact that the experts expect it to have. That is why they have advised that we slow down.
We assure Hon Members that it is a concern to us; it affects the people who live in the community; it is affecting our project and we will do everything to make sure that the right thing is done.
Mr Kobina T. Hammond 10:40 a.m.
Madam
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
What is the question, Hon Hammond?
Mr Hammond 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
Dr Oteng-Adjei 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Bible says that some plant, some water and some harvest -- My focus is to take what
Mr Emmanuel K. Bedzrah 10:40 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, I want to find out from the Hon Minister, does it mean that the project will not be completed on schedule as planned.
Dr Oteng-Adjei 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
I did not say that. It does not mean also that we are working within the schedule of the project.
Mr Yaw Baah 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, with
the greatest respect, the Hon Minister ended up begging the question. He is supposed to either confirm yes or no, as easy as that. It is simpliciter rather than preaching to the House.
Mr Gershon K. B. Gbediame 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Question is in relation to the flies impeding the work at the Bui Dam; it has nothing to do with the viability of the project. [Interruptions.] Madam Speaker, I am saying in effect that, the Question is not related to the main Question and therefore, by our Standing Orders, such a question cannot be considered as a supplementary question.
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
I think Hon
Hammond is just saying that he did not get the answer to the question. Or you did not understand? He spoke in parables -- [Laughter] -- You could ask him to answer it.
Mr Hammond 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
apart from the parable, the essence of my question, I think, was not grappled with, so Madam Speaker, if you would entreat the Hon Minister to answer directly my question. He should confirm it whether or not the US$620 million he just mentioned was put to good use and that the Bui Project is a viable venture. Can he answer and confirm yes or no?
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon Members, I
Dr Oteng-Adjei 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
in talking about viability of projects and whether a project is good or not, entails a bit of analytical work in terms of investment appraisal and the criteria for deciding whether a project is viable or not.
As I stand here, Madam Speaker, I did not look at the exact numbers and if the Hon Member would like to put the question to me at another time, I will be glad to be here to provide him with all the numbers and assure him that I have complete understanding of investment appraisal. I do not have any fears working with him at the right time. I do not want to speculate numbers before the Honourable House.
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
I was even wondering whether that question was not asking him for his opinion. But I thought the answer would be yes or no. But never mind, he says give him time to get all the specifics for you.
Mr Hammond 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, with
the greatest deference and the greatest respect, the Hon Minister has been at his desk for two years; he knows all about this project. Is it not pretty rich, Madam Speaker, for the Hon Minister now to come to this House and tell us that he does not know about the studies and that I should give him time to go and come back?
Madam Speaker, the question is this, is it good or bad to spend US$620 million on the project under his supervision -- I know it is under his supervision, that is why I whispered to my Hon Friend that he was wrong, he was out of order on the question
that he posed because it is at his immediate supervision. So it is right to spend all that money on it? Can he not confirm that it is good or bad, Madam Speaker? It is a very simple question.
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon Minister, I
have been debating whether it is not a matter of opinion. But you are the Minister and the answer is, yes. Do you think that it was a good project? I think that is all that he is asking you.
Mr Avoka 10:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, our
Madam Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Order?
Mr Avoka 10:40 a.m.
That you cannot subject
a Minister to express his opinion on a subject. [Interruptions.] Madam Speaker, Standing Order 67(e) is very clear on the subject, and with your permission, I quote:
“a Question shall not solicit the expression of an opinion or the solution of an abstract legal case or a hypothetical proposition;”
So for the Hon Minister to express an opinion here on whether it is viable or not, is against the Standing Orders. And that is why the Hon Minister said that he needed notice so that he could then come and explain the investment viability of the project.
He cannot just get up here and say whether it is viable or not viable; that is an opinion, which they cannot compel him to answer now, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
There is a thin
line-- Well, as a technocrat and the Hon Minister for Energy, and you are constructing a dam, he wants a “Yes” or “No” answer; he is not asking you for particulars and I am wondering whether

it is a matter of opinion. Do you know? You know? You know that - Do you not know that it is viable or not?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in investment appraisal, there are various criteria for making the decision - [Interruptions.] At the time that we took over, the decision had been made and the work was ongoing -
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
But is it viable? You do not think -
Dr Oteng-Adjei 10:50 a.m.
I did not go through detailed technical appraisal in terms of whether it is good or bad. It be made, we proceeded to continue. But if it is a question of good or bad, then you have to define what criteria I am going to use to decide at the end that it is good or bad. That is why I am saying that, Madam Speaker, any time, any day that the Hon Member wants me to come with the right numbers - [Some Hon Members: No, no.] -- I would do that. But for today, I am unable to speculate. That is all that I am saying.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Hon Member, I think we cannot argue with the Hon Minister. We are not permitted to argue; that is his answer. So let us accept the answer.
Mr Hammond 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker -
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Well, he says he would not say “Yes” or “No”. He has to look at the records.
Mr Hammond 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, with
the greatest respect, you have the power to compel the Hon Minister to answer or walk out of the hall if he cannot answer the question.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
No, no. I do not think we can compel the Hon Minister; we cannot even debate the Minister. So
Hon Member for Adansi/Asokwa, Mr Hammond, he says that give him time, with your specific question, he would come again.
Yes, can we move on. [Pause.] Well, I think I have already said that. Hon Hammond, if you want him to answer your question, because he wants to deal with it in figures, bring your Question; give him time, he would marshal all the figures and then be able to answer it. I think we have to accept that.
Mr Hammond 10:50 a.m.
I am grateful, Madam Speaker. I would bring a specific Question to that effect and then he would deal with it.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Thank you. Yes --
Mr Charles Hodogbey 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I would like to refer to Standing Order 67(h) which states and with your permission, I quote:
“a Question shall not be asked the answer to which is readily available in official publications;”
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Order! Order! Let us hear the Hon Member; let us hear him.
Mr Hodogbey 10:50 a.m.
The question which has been asked by Hon Hammond, official publications have stated the reasons for the construction of the Bui Dam. Therefore, his question to ask of the opinion of the Hon Minister about the benefits, whether the Bui Dam is necessary or not, previous official publications have stated the benefits of the dam, whether it is good or not. So he should go and refer to that one.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member, in which official publication would he find them?
Mr Hodogbey 10:50 a.m.
If he goes into the previous Budget Statements -- this
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
“Official publi- cations” have a special definition?
Mr Hodogbey 10:50 a.m.
The Budget Statement states the importance of the Bui Dam.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Yes, I know you are right when you say -- where there is an official publication, we go there for the answer and we cannot ask the question. I deal with that even before I give my approval. But I am not sure whether some official publication will have an answer to this question. Anyway, it is very helpful.
Yes, the Hon Member for Afigya Sekyere West (Mr Kan-Dapaah), let us move on; we will finish with you and move on. We are spending too much time on the first Question and we have only one hour for Question time.
Mr Albert Kan-Dapaah 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, given the hesitation of the Hon Minister regarding the viability of the Bui Project, are we to understand that he is implementing a project, the viability of which he is not aware?
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Hon Member, I will not permit the question, because it would only amount to debating him. I have already finished with that question; he says he will come and give it to the House. He did not refuse to answer it. Maybe, when it comes again, you can ask him.
Let us move on, Hon Members; we have so many other Questions. We have one hour for Question time and I have to make sure that we finish with these Questions within the time. So when I said last question from Hon Kan-Dapaah, I had finished with it.
Now, let us move on to item (4). There is a Question which stands in the name of
the Hon Member for Amenfi Central, Mr George Kofi Arthur.
Mr Francis Adu-BlayKoffie 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Member for Amenfi Central, Mr George Arthur has asked me to ask the Question on his behalf.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Where is he?
Mr Koffie 10:50 a.m.
He has been called to the constituency to attend to an emergency call.
Madam Speaker 10:50 a.m.
All right, you all do it; go on with the Question.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 10:50 a.m.
MINISTRY OF ENERGY 10:50 a.m.
Mr Koffie 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, according to the Hon Minister's Answer, these communities are not considered. May I know from him, is he going to put them in his future plans when money is available?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the National Electrification Programme seeks to extend electricity to all communities within the country and they have been segmented into six phases and depending on funds available, the Government undertakes that project. So I want to assure the Hon Member, that all communities are included in the programme and whenever funds are available, we would address his concerns.
Mr Joseph Osei-Owusu 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I would like to know from the Hon Minister, that from experience, when communities are linked to the national grid, they are often not provided with meters, such that in many, many of the communities where they have been linked, connection to households are not there because there are no meters to enable them enjoy the service. May I know why this situation persists?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 10:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, at the inception of the National Electrification Programme, what we did and what subsequent governments have continued to do, have been to bring the price of getting access at the early stages so low that the penetration rate would be very high. In this way, the utilities can also get some income. At the beginning of the programme, we were very aggressive in our quest to let these people come on board. Somewhere along the line, that kind of zeal died down.
So Mr Speaker, what is happening is
that, there is a time frame within which the Ministry is still in charge of the project. So if we enter a community and only ten people are available at that time, we give them the meters.
Thereafter, six months, the project reverts to the utility companies and at that time, if you need a meter, you have to go through the process of the utility companies
Madam Speaker, I want to plead -- I believe this is something that all of us can help, that at the time that we are entering the community, let us work together and get as many people as possible to hook on the system so that we can give them all the meters. This is because at that time, it would be the responsibility of the Ministry and therefore, we would have to look for the money.
I think this is an area that those of us who have got constituencies outside the big cities, if we all work together, we can help address this issue.
Thank you.
Several Hon Members -- rose --
Mr Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Oh! Everybody wants to have a bite at the cake?
Mr Osei-Owusu 11 a.m.
Probably to give us some information he had earlier asked from us. I do not know.
Mr Speaker, thank you very much.
Hon Minister, about a year ago, you sent communication to the House that communities that required meters, we should write to you and many of us, I am sure, did. It is a year now. In the face of this Answer you just gave, are we to expect any support from the Ministry or we should communicate back to the community that they should deal with the supply agency?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, when we received all those letters indicating to
Mr Isaac K. Asiamah 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, still in connection with the meters, I think it is so critical in some of our constituencies. In my constituency for example, the project has been completed almost two years ago and as we speak now, they still do not have the meters. About forty-eight communities have been completed and they still do not have the meters and they do not have electricity.
So I am asking the Hon Minister to treat this matter as urgently as possible because it is so serious and critical in our constituencies. My area for example, they have all paid; they have all registered; they have paid everything. All that they are waiting for are the meters to come on board to be hooked on to the national grid, that is, Atwima Mponua. So, I want him to assure my constituents and I that they will have access to the metres as soon as possible.
Thank you.
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am trying to recall the contractor because I think that his project is not very long ago and I think that the District Chief Executive (DCE) or somebody there came to see me on that. But I cannot remember; I will check later on if he can work with me so that we can see if it is an on-going project and the contractor has not even completed, then perhaps, it is because normally, what they do is that, they start
the project from the high tension side, the low voltage (LV) side, then they go to the service.
So they impor t the mater ia l s accordingly. If that is the case, it can easily be addressed as a specific issue. On a broader issue, we are conceding that the meters are not there. We are also stating that there are financial constraints. If there is any way the House can help me get more money, I am available to do it.
Mr I. K. Asiamah 11 a.m.
Just an information. The company is China Water. About two years ago, the SHEP 1 -- about eight communities were completed in December, 2008. So that is about two years ago and as we speak now, around last year or so, all the communities were completed and they have been there for almost two years without access to meters. It is so serious.
They have left the community; they are not in the constituency and that all that we hear is “there is no meter, there is no meter, and there is no meter”. We have chased -- we are with the Western Region, Bibiani; that is where we get our supply from. We have been there several times and the message is that no meter, no metre. I have been to his Ministry too, no meter, no meter. So it is serious.
Thank you.
Mr Speaker 11 a.m.
Last question; I am trying to work within the one hour.
Mr Kwame Osei-Prempeh 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, in the absence of meters, would it not be advisable to allow consumers to use electricity at some fixed price, while they wait for the meters? As it is, some communities have power for two years and because they do not have meters, they cannot extend it to their houses; it is only on the streets. Can they not be allowed to use the electricity at a fixed price, when we do not have money to provide them with meters?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the decision is more of operational; it deals with the utility companies. I would look at it and discuss with the utility companies to see if there is a way of doing this without creating any commercial losses and theft within the system. I will talk to the utility companies on that.
Madam Speaker 11 a.m.
That is good. Then we move to the next Question. It is also from Hon George Kofi Arthur.
Mr G. K. Arthur 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am stepping the second Question down. The reasons are -- the Question was slated around January. As I am talking now, the contractors are in the constituency working on it.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 11 a.m.
Then you are not stepping it down.
Mr Adu-Blay Koffie 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I am withdrawing the Question.
Madam Speaker 11 a.m.
Yes, that is much better.
Thank you.
The next Question stands in the name of Hon Ahmed Ibrahim, Tain.
Mr Hackman Owusu-Agyemang 11 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I think the right formulation would have been -- asking your leave and that of the House to withdraw the Question because once the Question has been submitted, it becomes the property of this august House and for him to get up to say “I am with-drawing --”, I think we have to follow procedures, teach the procedures so that they are followed.
There must be an application to your goodself and the House to withdraw the Question. It must be an application to your goodself and then be withdrawn. Let us do things properly so that the younger
ones will learn how it is done. This is the proper way to go about it.
Thank you
Madam Speaker 11 a.m.
Yes, f rom experience, that is true. That is the way; I think that is what he was about to do or tried to do.
But Hon Member, learning is a process for all of us. Next time, put it in better words that you are asking for permission to withdraw.
So the next Question -- is it 701 that you withdrew? Is it the 701? Then we come to 702. Have you asked 701? You have not? All right, I am sorry.
Sustenance of Normal Levels of
Hydroelectric Power Production from Akosombo and Kpong Stations
Q. 701. Mr Ahmed Ibrahim asked the Minister for Energy what strategy was being used to sustain normal levels of hydro electric power production in 2011 and 2012 from the Akosombo and Kpong stations when the Black Volta was dammed up to build the Bui reservoir.
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
as part of the measures to mitigate the effect of impounding the Bui Dam on the Akosombo and the Kpong power stations, a 100 MW has to be available from the other fuel sources by 2011 to make up for the shortfall in energy requirements of the country.
To date, a 180 MW Sunon-Asogli Thermal Power Plant has been inaugurated and is in commercial operation. Two other plants, the Tema Osonor Plant, 126 MW and Takoradi 3 Thermal Power Plant, 132 MW are under construction and will be inaugurated by the end of 2011 and 2012 respectively.
Further, the inflows to the Akosombo Dam have been very good this year,

with the reservoires almost reaching its highest operation level. The Akosombo and Kpong power stations could therefore be operated without any adverse effect on the power generation of the country, even if the inflows for the next 2 years were below average.
Mr Ahmed Ibrahim 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, if I heard the Hon Minister right, from his Answer, he said two other plants would be inaugurated by the end of 2011 and 2012. But we know impoundment would take place in the first quarter, 2011. Is there going to be some gap around that area or we would be able to have normal levels of power by the time we start the impoundment in the first quarter, 2011?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the
hydrology of the dam is such that 20 per cent of the inflows into the dam comes from the Bui side and we are saying that that 20 per cent over the period constitutes about 100 MW. So the challenge is that, we would need to have in place before they start the impounding, at least, 100 MW power available to cater for 20 per cent inflows that may not be available. And I am saying that for that 20 per cent, we already have 180 MW from the Sunon- Asogli Plant in place.
We are also having a 126 MW coming on in 2011. So I want to assure the Hon Member that, we have worked and catered adequately to make sure that we do not get into any power crisis.
Mr Ahmed Ibrahim 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I appreciate the Hon Minister's answer and his foresight. May he continue to do such a good job. [Some Hon Members: Amen.]
Mr K. T. Hammond 11:10 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, can the Hon Minister confirm to this House, whether it is the case that the limited amount of gas from Nigeria
through the West African Gas Pipeline, which actually was meant for the Takoradi Aboadze Plant, meant to reduce the cost of production for the benefit of the general population of Ghana, is what has been given or handed over to the Sunon-Asogli Thermal Power Plant? If that is the case, what is the technical or commercial reason for that gas being given to this private company rather than to Takoradi Aboadze Plant on behalf of the country?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, many times when you sit in positions --and I am sure the Hon Member being a former Deputy Minister accepts that, you are called upon to make certain decisions in the interest of the majority of the people. Yes, we are getting the free- flow gas. Yes, we also conceded at the time that the reserve margin that we were having in the country was so small that if we sent all the gas to Aboadze, we might bring the price down but a little problem in the peak period would cause the whole system to collapse.
So we decided that here, we are with a private investment sitting down and it needs about only 18 million cubic feet of gas and they can bring on board at least, 100 MW to ensure that we cater for the low reserve margin and most of the time, they operated without a spinning reserve. It was on that basis that we made the decision; it was not for a commercial reason. It was for the purpose of showing that we have a robust system.
So that is why we took that decision and we believe that as I am talking to you now, Asogli is giving us at least, 80 MW and that is supporting and making the system --
Mr Charles S. Hodogbey 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in the Hon Minister's Answer, he stated that the country needed only 100 MW of electric power to sustain the country normally. He went on to say -- to date, 180 MW from Sunon-Asogli is available, then another 126 MW from the Tema Osonor Plant plus 132 MW are all under construction. If the country needs only 100 MW to be normal all the year, why is Sunon-Asogli alone not able to
overflow the 100 MW that he has started and how would the excess be used? Could he tell the country?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:10 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I
believe the core issue under discussion is that, we are going to do some impounding and when we do that, it is only a limited volume of water that will be allowed to flow into the dam. I believe that the Hon Member's Question was that during that period, have we made provisions to cater for the loss?
So the numbers I gave were to show that, yes, we have made adequate preparation for that. We are not saying that the whole country needs only 100 MW. It is that 100 MW that we need because of this, we have shown that we have put up programmes to resolve that.
Mr Maxwell K. Jumah 11:10 a.m.
Madam
Speaker, I just wanted to be clear from the Hon Minister, as a result of the switch to Sunon-Asogli, is Ghana Government losing money as a result of that and is it also affecting the price that the consumer has to pay?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, no! The Government is not losing any money and it is not affecting the price to consumers.
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
We l l , Hon Hammond, one hour is almost up. You have two Questions coming, do you want to ask your Questions or should we - because after one hour, we would have finished with Questions.
Mr Hammond 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I want my Questions to be answered but the Minister is being actualite, seriously actualite with some of the issues. The answer he just gave, Madam Speaker, with respect to you, is patently inaccurate.
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Are you debating him? Our rule is that he gives an answer and we do not go and challenge him.
Mr Hammond 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, this is not a debate.
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
You are wasting your time. One hour, within the next few minutes, will be up, your Questions would be asked to be printed.
Mr Hammond 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I defer to the Chair.
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
I was just helping you.
Mr Frederick Opare-Ansah 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, from the Minister's last answer, that we are not losing any money, does it mean then that we are not buying any crude for the Aboadze plant at the higher cost than gas which has been sent to the other private plant?
The second leg of my question is to ask the Hon Minister in respect of the answer he gave -- The authority for the Ministry to undertake the West African Gas Pipeline Project was given by this House with specific objectives. So under what authority did he vary the decision of this House to send the gas to Aboadze and take it to the private plant?
Thank you.
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, can I ask the Hon Member to repeat the question, please?
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
You have asked so many questions in one sentence.
Mr Opare-Ansah 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the first leg of the question is a single question. From the Minister's last answer, saying that the Government is not losing any money, I am asking if they are no longer buying crude oil which costs more than the gas to Aboadze Thermal Plant. This is because he just told us that part of the gas that is supposed to go to Aboadze is

being sent to the Sunon-Asogli Plant. So I am asking him if crude is no longer being used at that place, then I can understand that Government is not losing any money.

Secondly, the power for the Ministry to undertake the West African Gas Pipeline Project was given by this House and it had specific set objectives which included sending the gas to a particular location. Now, he is varying the destination of the gas and I want to know under what authority he is doing that.
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Hon Minister, just answer the questions one at a time.
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the first question -- the issue is yes, we will still be buying gas but that is where the commercial negotiations are going through and I assure you that the VRA team has done these things over and over and they assure me that Government is not going to lose out. And I know that they have the good team to do that. So, I am assuring you also that, they will not lose out. This is an opportunity cost issue in the negotiation, and I am sure they will cover themselves nicely.
On the issue of the authority, it is VRA that has signed the contract for the gas and we work as a Ministry with VRA to ensure that there is adequate power available for the people of this country and precisely, that was what we did.
Thank you.
Mr Joseph Owusu-Osei 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Hon Minister, he said VRA had done the agreement. Does the VRA have the power under the law to send gas to any other private authority under the law?
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
But can he answer for VRA?
Some Hon Members 11:20 a.m.
He can.
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
He can?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I am aware that the commercial agreement is between VRA representing the Government of Ghana and the Nigerian counterparts and therefore, they make all those decisions on the commercial ones on our behalf. That one, I am aware.
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Well, if I do not close on this Question, the two Questions will have to be deferred because time is running.
Well, we have finished with that Question then, we move to Question 702, which stands in the name of Mr Kobina T. Hammond (Adansi-Asokwa).
GOG/GNPC/AKER ASA
Petroleum Agreement
(Abrogation?)
Q. 702. Mr Kobina T. Hammond asked the Minister for Energy whether the Petroleum Agreement between the Government of Ghana and GNPC and AKER ASA had been abrogated and if so, the basis of the abrogation.
Mr Joe Oteng-Adjei 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Peteroleum Agreement (PA) has not been abrogated. Parties have reached a mutually satisfactory and amicable termination agreement, which is awaiting execution. Basis for the termination was substantive and not procedural or “technical”. AKER ASA, being a Norwegian company, not registered as an external company under our Companies Code, lacked the legal capacity to acquire exploration and production rights or to be a party to the PA. The Petroleum (Exploration and Production) Law does not provide for retroactive correction.
Mr Hammond 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, listening to the Hon Minister I realize that he is talking about matters of law in the Answer here. The last time I encountered
him at the Ministry of Energy, I happened to be the Deputy Minister, he was the Director of Power.
Madam Speaker, he has since gone on to do further studies but I have not known him to be a lawyer. Can he confirm to this House that in arriving at this decision, the question of termination or abrogation -- he seems to be dealing with termination or abrogation, has he consulted with the Government's constitutionally mandated legal officer -- the Attorney-General?
Has he consulted with her to give answers of this nature and particularly with respect to whether it is abrogation or termination to this House? Is the Attorney- General and Minister for Justice aware that this is a document which was approved by this House? Is she aware and has given the Government the Answers that he has given to this House today?
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
But why did you not ask the Attorney-General and Minister for Justice then? [Laughter.] Why should he ask it for you?
Mr Hammond 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, it will be extremely unfair to ask the Attorney-General and Minister for Justice; she has not prepared anything; it is the Minister who is answering a legal question on his own behalf and as the procedure, as the convention is, matters of this fundamental nature, the lawyer to the Government would have to be consulted. I am asking the Minister if he has consulted with the Government's lawyer and she approved that what he is telling Parliament is correct.
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Yes, he is asking you whether you have consulted.
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, there are a lot of processes involved in decision-making. And I want to assure
the Hon Member that some of these procedures and processes are internal. I assure you that I went through all the internal processes necessary for us to make that decision.
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Another question, yes.
Mr Hammond 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I take it that it is an admission that the Attorney-General and Minister for Justice of Ghana is not aware of a matter as monumental as this. A decision -
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
You cannot take it like that; he did not say that. He said he had gone through the processes. If you want to ask another question, lay the foundation before you come to that assumption. But he says he has gone through the processes.
Mr Hammond 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, he says in the Answer here that, the contract has not been abrogated. Obviously, it has been terminated, he said. The Minister wrote two letters, first letter is dated 30th December, 2009, the second letter dated the 16th February, 2010. In both of these letters, the Minister quite clearly makes the point that he had taken the decision irrespective of the resolution passed by your House to approve that Agreement. He now says ‘terminate or abrogate' -- Madam Speaker, he gives the reasons --
Mr Avoka 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Member is referring to some documents that are not privy to this august House. May I know his source of those letters?
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
I think he is right. You are referring to some documents which we have not seen and I do not even know whether he has seen them or he gave them to you.
Mr Hammond 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, it is from the Ministry of Energy, signed by Dr Joe Oteng-Adjei; second one, Ministry
Madam Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Well, the Majority Leader just asked where you got them from. Is that not it?
Mr Avoka 11:20 a.m.
Madam Speaker, if he was copied those letters, then it is coming from a proper source because he received them. [Uproar.] Yes. These are letters from the Ministry, so he should indicate to us how he came by them. He should indicate how he came by the letters.
Mr Opare-Ansah 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Member on the floor is a Member of Parliament and under the Whistle Blowers Act, he is entitled to receive documentation in support of any issue and he is not obliged to disclose the sources from which he is getting this document. So, he has the document, if it is not the Minister who produced it, let him say so.
Mr Avoka 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, if the
Hon K. T. Hammond had applied to the Ministry of Energy and then they supplied him, then it is from a proper source - [Interruption] -- That is from a proper source. In the absence of evidence, that he applied or requested and was officially supplied, he has received them from the back-door and it is an improper source.
Mr Opare-Ansah 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
our Standing Orders are very clear. In asking an Hon Member to substantiate any matter, you only need to indicate where you are getting the source of your information. You are not required by our Standing Orders to tell how you came by the information. So, I think Hon Majority Leader is out of order.
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
But at least, you have to let us see it, like he was bringing it.
Mr Hammond 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
I am grateful. I am prepared to tender them now -
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
You are referring to
something we are not aware of -
Mr Hammond 11:30 a.m.
Should I wait for that
to be done or I should continue?
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Let us see it.
[Interruptions.] If you refer to it, you must -- Hon Minister, can you answer the question, unless you want to see the letter or deny that it is coming from you?
Mr Avoka 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I thought you were going to make a ruling on the fact that the documents are not from a proper source?
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Well, this is not a
court of law -
Mr Avoka 11:30 a.m.
They were not copied to
Mr Joe Ghartey 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I believe that my very Hon Colleague on the other side is, with the greatest of respect, bringing into the arena of Parliament, his practice in the courts. Madam Speaker, this document is an official document. The Member who is speaking, is seeking to bring the document to Parliament. The procedure is that he lays it on the Table.
Madam Speaker, the question that we should be asking ourselves is that, first, is the document relevant? Is the document authentic? If the document is not authentic, if it is a forgery, then Madam Speaker, the Minister is here, he
can tell us. If the letter is not relevant, then Madam Speaker, I will urge you not to admit the letter. But otherwise, Madam Speaker, it has also been pointed out to us that our laws protect you from disclosing one's source under the Whistle Blowers'Act.
Madam Speaker, if we take the view that when a Member of Parliament brings any official document to Parliament, he must disclose how he got it, we will be treading on very dangerous grounds. It will be an extremely, with respect, narrow interpretation and it will completely stifle the work of this House. In the exercise of our oversight responsibility --how can we exercise oversight responsibility if we do not know what is happening? We have our sources and we have a duty to protect our sources. This document is relevant, this document is the Minister's.
We have protection under the Whistle Blowers Act; it is an official document; it is a public document; and he also wrote the letter. The letter was not an internal memorandum; it is not a confidential letter; he wrote to the companies. Madam Speaker, I think that it is something that I will urge you, with the greatest of respect, to admit it.
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Well, if you say it
is a public document, what do you mean? That everybody knows about this? A “public document” in terms of definition, is something you can even go to -- What did you mean by a public document? It comes from inside the Ministry. Is it “a public document”? I wanted an enlightenment on that. If you say it is relevant, it is another matter.
Mr Ghartey 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the question that you asked, I did not hear you.
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
You said it is a public document.
Mr Ghartey 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I will
say it is an official document. It is from official sources. Everybody, all of us, with the greatest of respect, including His Excellency the President, under article 58 of the Constitution, are just trustees for the good people of Ghana. This is the House of representatives. The people of Ghana are represented here by Cletus Avoka, my goodself and my other Colleagues.
Indeed, if you are holding a position in trust for us, then the beneficiaries have a right to know what you are doing. And I am surprised he is raising that matter especially when we are all trying very hard to pass the Freedom of Information Bill. So, this is an official document and we are officials of the State and therefore, we have a right to the document.
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
As to the relevancy,
let the Minister see it because I could not even decide on relevancy. Because I had not seen the letter. But do you mind if the Minister sees the letter? Show it to the Minister you said he wrote these things and then a question will flow from that. He is asking you a question - Yes, have you seen the document?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Order! Order! Let
us hear the Minister.
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:30 a.m.
It is my signature with the letter head and some content in them. I cannot stand here without recourse to the original document that I have in my office and be able to state that this is a valid document. [Uproar!]
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Well, in which case
Hon Hammond, ask your question without regard because he says -- What was your question?
Mr Hammond 11:30 a.m.
Madam Speaker, we are being subjected to the most despicable sight in this House today. We have a Minister who for two years has been at the Ministry of Energy, who tells us that he could not tell us about the viability of a project he has expended US$620 million.
Now, Madam Speaker, he looks at a letter that he signs himself and then he says to us that “without recourse to the original”, a copy of which of course, was not served on me, he could not confirm the signature whether it is a genuine one or not. Madam Speaker, that is pathetic and this should not be allowed.
Madam Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Hon Member, let us move on . What is your question?
Mr Hammond 11:40 a.m.
In that letter he has got over there, he identifies three points -
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
I asked you to put the question to him; he does not have to refer to the letter - if he signed it, he would know the content. Yes, what is the question? Put the question.
Mr Hammond 11:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in the document that I just tendered to the Table, three items are identified for the abrogation or the termination of the contract. One is that, somebody forced another company, a particular local contractor, which the other company found unacceptable; so that other company has come to complain to him to terminate or abrogate this contract that was agreed by this House.
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Let us look at your Question, whether it flows from that question. Your Question - “To ask the Minister for Energy whether the Petroleum Agreement between the Government of Ghana and GNPC and AKER ASA has been abrogated and if so, the basis of the abrogation.” Ask him.
Mr Hammond 11:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, so point two - [Interruption] - You cannot tell me what to do --
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Hon Hammond, this is Question time, so ask your question. Do not chide him for saying that he has just seen it and he needs to check. Are you saying that it cannot happen that he did not write it; that it is forgery? So put your question; it is Question time. We are not in a court of law; put your question to him.
Mr Hammond 11:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, with respect, my question would not make sense if the background is not properly laid.
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Who says?
Mr Hammond 11:40 a.m.
I am labouring to make sense with the foundation -
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
All right, you go on; but do not take long. We have already finished with the one hour.
Mr Hammond 11:40 a.m.
All right, Madam Speaker. And that some legal provision was not abided by and then thirdly, some company was given the first option, so he would allow this other company to go in to complete the process.
Madam Speaker, I would want to ask the Hon Minister, is that the answer he has given to this House in view of what he originally has indicated to be the reason for the termination or the abrogation? And indeed, what is the difference between the two?
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
I do not get your question - Order! Let us do things in a proper way. What is your question; you have built a stage, so what is the question that you want him to answer?
Mr Hammond 11:40 a.m.
Are the answers he has given and the reasons herein, the same as what is contained in what he has previously indicated that the public is aware of?
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
In other words, they are not the same; put it to him. Yes, Hon Minister, he said from the reason you have given and certain documents he has found, it is not the same reason that you have given - I think he is entitled to ask that question. Let the Hon Minister answer it because you come here with knowledge, you do not even - He is talking from some information he has got and he said from his information, whether it is from the letter or somewhere, this is not the reason for the termination. Is it not it?
Mr Abdul-Rashid Pelpuo 11:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, we all know by our Standing Orders that Questions must not include arguments and references to the - [Interruption.]
Mr Pelpuo 11:40 a.m.
References to the character or integrity of the person, the Minister or whoever. - [Interruption] - The Hon Member who asked the Question levelled lots of charges against him including the fact that being a Minister for two years, he is unable to assess whether a project is viable or not. [Interruption.] Madam Speaker, he has to withdraw those because the Question he asked had no relevance at all to the original Question he asked. And it was right of the Hon Minister to say that he should come again. And so, the charges are infuriating him; they are making him unhappy. We here are also unhappy and we would want the Hon Member to withdraw that aspect of his statement before he goes ahead to ask the question.
Mr Inusah A. B. Fuseini 11:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I am drawing your attention - [Interruptions.]
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Order! Order!
Mr Fuseini 11:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I am drawing your attention to Order 69 (1). It says, and Madam Speaker, with your indulgence, I read:
“As soon as a Question is answered in the House any Member beginning with the Member who asked the Question may, without notice, ask a supplementary Question for the further elucidation of any matter of fact regarding which the answer has been given, but a supplementary Question must not be used to introduce matter not included in the Original Question.”
Emphasis -
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
I have taken note

of that --
Mr Fuseini 11:40 a.m.
And I am saying that the Question that Hon Kobina T. Hammond of Adansi Asokwa asked was --
“To ask the Minister for Energy whether the Petroleum Agreement between the Government of Ghana and GNPC and AKER ASA had been abrogated and if so, the basis of the abrogation.”
Mr Fuseini 11:40 a.m.
And I am inviting - Madam Speaker, this is a House of rules and as such we must respect and uphold the rules of this House. Madam Speaker, I am therefore inviting you to reject the question because if we do not do so, and set the rules of this House and uphold those rules, we would be opening the floodgates for any Hon Member to ask a question unrelated to the Business of this House. This question is totally unnecessary, unconnected and not related to the Question that was asked in the first place.
I thank you Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Well, I thank you Hon Member but I think it is related - [Hear! Hear!] - and that is why I will not - I said, put your question. This was your Question; he has given an Answer and you said that was not right; so put that question rather than pulling letters and documents.
Hon Minister, he is just challenging the Answer you gave, that this is not the reason and it flows from the Question. What do you say to that?
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:40 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I strongly believe that the essence of
inviting Ministers here during Question time is to provide information to the Hon Members of the House so that they would understand what we are doing and together they can have inputs, and hopefully, we would build a better Ghana.
Madam Speaker, I am of the perception and I take exception when an Hon Member challenges my technical competence and says that for two years I have not been able to do investment appraisal - [Interruption] - to that, I take exception.
Madam Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Order! Order!
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:40 a.m.
If he has a personal thing with me, there are other fora for him to address the issue. He should not hide under Parliament and attack my academics and my competencies in doing this work -
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Hon Minister, you are doing exactly what Hon Hammond started by saying you had said this and that. Let us leave the matter. Answer the question.
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, having said so, I stand by the Answer I gave. [Hear! Hear!]
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Yes, that is all. Any other question? That was your second question. What is your third question?
Mr Hammond 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, in view finally of what he has said, being unable to confirm or deny whether the basis that I gave for his abrogation is the true position, may I now ask him, whether he can give us a constitutional provision or a statutory provision which authorizes him as an Hon Minister to unilaterally abrogate or incite the termination of a document which by a resolution, this House unanimously approved? Can he give us a legal or constitutional basis for that? [Hear! Hear!]
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Order! Yes.
Mr Edward E. K. Adjaho 11:50 a.m.
Thank you

very much -
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Wait, wait. Hon Minister, wait. Let me hear - Yes, Hon First Deputy Speaker, have you got any Is the question not correct?
Mr Adjaho 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I think the Hon Member is completely out of order. He is soliciting the opinion of the Hon Minister for Energy. The rules - [Interruption.]
Mr Adjaho 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the rules of this House are very, very clear on this matter and I do not intend referring it to Hon Members, but if they want, I will do so.
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
What particular rule is it, so we consider that one? We want to do the right thing all the time.
Mr Adjaho 11:50 a.m.
“Questions shall not contain any argument, expression of opinion, inferences, imputations or soliciting - [Interruption]-- Please.
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Order!
Mr Adjaho 11:50 a.m.
“Questions shall not solicit the expression of an opinion or the solution of an abstract legal case or hypothetical proposition.”
My submission is that he is soliciting a legal opinion on a constitutional matter from the Hon Minister for Energy.
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Well, if the Hon Minister thinks so, let him answer the Question. But for all I know, he may have an answer or he may not have an answer, so this is the last question.
Hon Miniser, can you answer the Question? Then if you think it is not a matter for you or it is a matter of opinion, then say so.
Dr Oteng-Adjei 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker,
thank you so much.
As I indicated earlier, we went through a process in coming up with this decision. The process involved all types of expertise and therefore, I am fully advised and I still stand by the decision and answer that I have given here.
Thank you.
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Well, he says he stands by the answer - No, you cannot debate him on that; you cannot debate the Hon Minister on that.
Several Hon Members - rose -
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
He has finished with his three questions and time is up. We started this at 10.34 a.m. and it is 11.58 a.m. So I think Question time has ended.
Mr Opare-Ansah 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I have a point to make.
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
The rest of the Questions will be printed in the Hansard. Question time is over. Whether supplementary or otherwise, Question time is one hour; we have passed one hour -
Mr Opare-Ansah 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I am not asking a question.
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
All right.
Mr Opare-Ansah 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, I want to comment on the answer that the Hon Minister gave and the manner -
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
You cannot do that. [Uproar.] You cannot debate the Hon Minister.
Mr Opare-Ansah 11:50 a.m.
. . . and the manner in which the answer was given. Madam Speaker -
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
You mean the manner?
Mr Opare-Ansah 11:50 a.m.
Yes, Madam Speaker, the manner. The Hon Minister
virtually tells us that we cannot challenge his teechnical competence. [Interruption.] Madam Speaker, let the Hon Minister know that he is not the only technically competent person in his field in this room. [Uproar.] He is not the only electrical engineer in this room. We have very competent professionals on both sides of the House.
The Business of this House is, indeed, to interrogate matters that are brought before the House and in particular, during Question time, Hon Ministers are to come here to answer Questions which Hon Members put across to them. It is not in his place to determine the admissibility of Questions.
Standing Order 66 (1) provides that Madam Speaker shall be the sole judge --
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Are you saying that I have arrogated my work to him? He has not. I have determined -
Mr Opare-Ansah 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the Hon Minister was actually attempting to hijack your responsibilities.
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Attempting, but did he succeed? Anyway, I thank you. Thank you for the patience.
Mr Opare-Ansah 11:50 a.m.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Several Hon Members - rose -
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Question time is over. Anything which falls in respect of Questions is over, please. Let us move on.
The rest of the Questions which have not been answered will be printed and the Answers also printed.
Disposal or Sale of KOSMOS Energy's Stake in the Jubilee Field
Q. 703. Mr Kobina T. Hammond: To ask the Minister for Energy whether GNPC had reached an agreemnet with KOSMOS Energy Ghana Limited on the disposal or sale of KOSMOS Energy's stake in the Jubilee Field.
Minister for Energy (Dr Joe Oteng- Adjei) 11:50 a.m.
Madam Speaker, the information available to me does not support the assertion that GNPC has reached an agreement with KOSMOS Energy Ghana Limited on the disposal or sale of KOSMOS Energy's stake in the Jubilee Field.
Madam Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Hon Members, Statements. I have admitted a Statement and I will call upon Hon Elizabeth Agyeman to deliver it.
Oh, Hon Minister, thank you very, very much for coming to atatend to us.
Thank you.
Yes, Hon Elizabeth, can you deliver your Statement, please? Hon Members, let us listen to the Statement of Hon Elizabeth Agyeman.
STATEMENTS noon
Mrs Elizabeth Agyeman (NPP - Oforikrom) noon
Madam Speaker, with only five years to the 2015 deadline to achieve the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs), it has been reported that, improving maternal health (Goal 5) has made the least amount of progress.
It is in the light of this that I rise to make a Statement on the need to intensify our fight against this menace, which is not only claiming the lives of many Ghanaian women and other women round the globe, but also constitute a human rights violation and a development challenge of our time.
According to UNICEF, more than 500,000 women die in child birth or from complications during child birth each year with the majority from Africa, while millions more suffer disabilities caused by complications.

Madam Speaker, at this year's Women Deliver Conference in Washington, DC, which was attended by over three thousand participants, including the First Ladies of Ghana, Sierra Leone and Zanzibar and over fifty Parliamentarians across the world, maternal mortality featured prominently during the deliberations and the general consensus among participants was that, most maternal deaths are preventable and that the health solutions to prevent maternal deaths are readily available and cost-effective.

Madam Speaker, ensuring access to modern contraception to every woman who needs it, the provision of adequate health facilities, skilled birth attendants and health professionals, better provisions for emergency treatment and improved logistics for rapid movement of complicated cases are all basic requirements for improving delivery care.

Madam Speaker, intensifying education for pregnant women on the importance of recognizing danger signs and seeking early care, is critical for improving healthcare for women while providing universal access to reproductive health services, must be prioritized. Husbands must also be encouraged to take very good care of their wives during pregnancy.

M a d a m S p e a k e r , a s Wo m e n Parliamentarians, the Women's Caucus in Parliament assumed a leading role in the fight against maternal mortality. The Caucus launched a Fund and with the support of the MTN Foundation, refurbished the Korle-Bu Maternity Theatre.

Permit me, Madam Speaker, to use this opportunity to congratulate Hajia Mary Issaka, a 53-year-old Ghanaian Midwife from Zorkor, a village in the Bongo District of the Upper East Region for emerging as the International Midwife Champion of the Year at the Women Deliver Conference in Washington, DC.

Madam Speaker, the Midwife Champion of the Year Award recognizes the work of midwives in low-resource settings and the award is given to a midwife who has made an extraordinary

effort in a developing nation, specifically in the training of midwives, educating communities, advocating for and implanting evidence-based midwifery care and innovation to save lives.

Madam Speaker, in a developing country like Ghana, midwives are the front-line maternal and child healthcare providers who give advice and life-saving information to pregnant women, counsel HIV-positive women on how to protect their unborn children from infections, prepare women to give birth and plan their families, help deliver babies and connect the greater community to healthcare.

In view of this, the role of midwives in our fight against maternal mortality cannot be overemphasized. I once again congratulate Hajia Mary on behalf of all Ghanaian women and entreat other midwives to emulate her example and play an active part in the figtht against maternal mortality.

Madam Speaker, at the last Sitting of the Pan-Africa Parliament in South Africa, Members were urged to appeal to their various Governments to increase the budgets of their Ministries of Health by at least 15 per cent to enable them intensify the figtht against maternal mortality.

In conclusion, we must recognize as a nation that, improving maternal health is an important indicator for monitoring socio-economic development and even though, the ambitious goal of reducing maternal mortality by 75 per cent by the year 2015 presents a formidable challenge, it is achievable, but only, through concerted and sustained efforts.

Finally, Madam Speaker, no woman should die while giving Life because the death of a mother during child birth may shorten the life of the new born baby.

Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity.
Madam Speaker noon
Yes, Hon Member,
Madam Speaker noon
Hon Member, let us be fast about it; it is a topic that a lot of Members would like to speak to.
Maj. (Dr) (Alhaji) Ahmed (retd): Madam Speaker, five new midwifery institutions have been opened this year -- at Nandom, Goaso, Dormaa, Pramso in the Ashanti Region and a few more others have been provided the concession to provide certificate training to midwives and 10 other institutions.
There is also Madam Speaker, before you this morning, loan agreement that will be laid to procure 155 ambulances that will beef up the ambulance service in Ghana and all this, with a view to enhancing referral services to the hospitals with better facilities so that we can attend to obstetric emergencies as quickly as possible.
By the year 2012, it is anticipated that every district in this country should be linked to the National Ambulance Service and this should drastically help reduce maternal mortality -
Madam Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Wind up now.
Maj. (Dr) (Alhaji) Ahmed (retd): Madam Speaker, 400 people are currently being trained in emergency services for the ambulances that would be imported into the country very soon. These are part of several strategies that have been put in place to address the issue and I wish to assure our countrymen and women that a lot is being done to address the issue and the target, I believe, can be achieved.
Ms Esther O. Dappah (NPP -- Abirem) 12:10 p.m.
Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to add my voice to the Statement on the floor of the House.
I would like to commend the Member of Parliament for Oforikrom (Mrs Elizabeth Agyeman) for bringing such an important matter up in this House. I would also like to congratulate all midwives and doctors who are at the front line for providing maternal healthcare. My two daughters are both midwives, so I know the stress that they go through and the dedication that they offer.
Madam Speaker, this topic has been discussed in this House previously but is very important that we visit it over and over until we achieve our target and come to a stage where maternal death would be a thing of the past. According to the 2008 World Health Organisation (WHO) report, there is an indication that out of 100,000 births, 451 women die. This -- on the average is two women dying everyday.
It is a serious matter, it may even be worse than motor accidents that we experience in this country.
Madam Speaker, of these figures that I am indicating, 30 per cent of the deaths are caused by abortion. There is a lot that can be done to prevent this -- education wise, advising especially teenagers how to prevent pregnancy.

Madam Speaker, in the 1930s, the 451 deaths were happening in other parts of the world -- [Interruption] - Great Britain, Sweden, Sri Lanka -- the figures that I have quoted. We are in the situation that they were in 1930s. So we have a long way to go; we have to work very hard to improve our services to pregnant women. It is not a thing of women -- any time we talk about matters like this, people tend to sit back and think that this are women's issue.

But women that are dying have husbands; they have brothers; they have uncles who are all men and it is affecting the homes and also the new-born baby. If the new-born baby survives and the mother dies, It is a social problem. So the nation has to gather all momentum to fight this menace.

There are a few suggestions that I have. Members of Parliament have played their role in fighting maternal death. We have been using our Common Fund to buy ambulances; we have been constructing roads where there are no access roads. For instance, I have constructed a road to a village where pregnant women were being carried to a nearby lorry station -- about five kilometres away.

So Members of Parliament have played roles in this fight. Recently, we have been given GH¢30,000 to promote healthcare in our constituencies, and I am glad that the Hon Minister for Health is here. It looks as if we have no control over what this money is used for. Personally, I have experienced a lot of problems in my constituency and -
Madam Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Can you wind up so that other people will have the chance?
Ms Dappah 12:10 p.m.
I am just winding up, Madam Speaker.
Where women are giving birth on benches and a Member of Parliament goes round and buys a delivery bed and the delivery bed is returned because the hospital thinks it needs computers, it is
Madam Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Thank you, Hon Member; thank you very much.
Dr Richard W. Anane (NPP - Nhyiaeso) 12:20 p.m.
Madam Speaker, I want to thank you, first, for giving us the opportunity to contribute to this and to also congratulate the Hon Member for bringing up this very important issue for the consideration of the House.
Madam Speaker, the question of maternal mortality is distressing, especially for developing countries because of our poverty. Madam Speaker, but the issue of maternal mortality, in spite of our poverty, still requiries of us to endeavour to contain it, to bring it to the barest minimum so that our societies can be uplifted. For us in Ghana, statistics on our maternal mortality rates have waxed between 760 per 100,000 live births to lately 351 per 100,000 live births.
Madam Speaker, if one were to look at it from this standpoint, then there is a major improvement in our statistics. The answer, however, Madam Speaker, is not an answer that should come only from the Ministry of Health. The answer should be multi-sectoral and the approach should therefore, be multi-sectoral.
Madam Speaker, from the health standpoint, we expect the Ministry of Health to ensure provision of infrastructure and facilities, personnel of relevance, relevant policies that also improve access to the facilities and therefore, also to the services.
From the point of view of education, Madam Speaker, there is compelling evidence to show that educating a woman impacts positively on the health of the woman and indeed, on the health of the society in general.
As a product of Aggrey Memorial
Dr Richard W. Anane (NPP - Nhyiaeso) 12:20 p.m.


women, to the relevant health services.

Madam Speaker, so too, agriculture. When we improve upon access to food, we also are able to improve the health and therefore, the size and the physique of our women. These, Madam Speaker, if we continue to pursue, would help us to at least, ensure that the lives of our people are improved. One may look at actions and policies taken by the previous Administration -
Madam Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Yes, wind up.
Dr Anane 12:20 p.m.
Madam Speaker, the decisions and policies that were taken by the previous Administration, such as the health insurance service scheme, free maternal healthcare, the ambulance service, increase especially in the admission of nurses to nursing institutions from 870 to about 7,000 per annum, therefore, are very relevant policies that improve upon the care and the services that are made available to our women when they need them, so that they would therefore, be able to get the kind of service that they require.
So too, we have the College of Physicians and Surgeons which is also producing the relevant personnel that would be managing our mothers.
Madam Speaker, these policies as well as expansion of access to education (as I said earlier), improved upon the lives of our families. Improving physical access as I said earlier has to do with making it easy for our women to access health services wherever they live. But educating them Madam Speaker, also changes their mindset of being afraid of accessing healthcare at the hospital.
One of the major problems that Madam Speaker, we have in this country, is that many of our mothers tend to be afraid of delivering in hospital because they think
that if you have to deliver in a hospital, then it means you are not a successful woman. Madam Speaker, if we are able to educate them for them to do away with this kind of mindset, it would also help us in improving upon our maternal morbidity and mortality.
Therefore, Madam Speaker, while it appears difficult for us in the Third World to be able to contain it, I still believe that if we as a people and as a government, were to continue to improve upon the policies that previous governments started, we should be able, Madam Speaker, to also improve upon the statistics. From 760 to 450, to 351 is a great change and if we are to ensure that we continue what has been started, I do not see why we would not be able to improve upon our maternal mortality statistics.
With these few comments, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute.
Minister for Health (Dr Benjamin Kunbuor) 12:30 p.m.
Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to make one or two comments on this significant Statement that has been made by the Hon Member.
Madam Speaker, we have the irony of maternal mortality which is one in which a woman goes to give birth to life and end up losing her life. It is particularly not surprising that that becomes one of the challenges that we are facing in meeting the health-related Millennium Development Goals (MDGs).
I have particularly been very impressed about the interest that Hon Members of this House have taken on this particular subject and also the contribution on how we can reach this particular Millennium Development Goal which is the major challenge.
It is for that that I have always as a
matter of policy indicated as the Hon Member for Nhyiaeso (Dr Anane) has said, that maternal mortality and morbidity is too serious a matter to be left to only health personnel or the Health Ministry and this point was registered succinctly at the last World Health Assembly for the simple reason that many more factors outside the clinical environment and outside health delivery impinge and determine the quality of maternal health and it is in this context that the call for education becomes very, very critical.

Madam Speaker, we also as a nation have to rethink the traditional and orthodox intervention in addressing maternal health. It is becoming clear that decade after decade and donor funds after donor funds, the picture on maternal mortality and morbidity has not improved and the reasons seem to be that either the interventions were not well thought through or the interventions are not working because they are not backed by enough resources.

This has given us a very clear idea of what is peculiarly accounting for high mortality rate in Ghana in particular and we found that it has to do with what we refer to as the “3ds” or “three delays” -- whether it is in public health education, or it is in the clinical environment, it is these “three delays” that actually account for maternal mortality, and the interventions to make sure that we truncate and reduce these delays.

The “first delay” has to do with whether a pregnant woman has taken a decision to deliver in a health facility or at home. And we need antenatal public health education to convince the women that it is safer to deliver in a health facility.

The “second delay” -- Where she has agreed that she will deliver in a health
Madam Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Thank you, Hon Minister.
Several Hon Members - rose --
Madam Speaker 12:30 p.m.
I want fresh faces.
Mr Isaac K. Asiamah (NPP - Atwima- Mpomua) 12:30 p.m.
Thank you, Madam Speaker, for this golden opportunity --
Madam Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Five minutes so that other people can contribute, please.
Mr I. K. Asiamah 12:30 p.m.
Thank you for this golden opportunity to contribute to the Statement ably made by Hon Elizabeth Agyeman on maternal mortality. Madam Speaker, I have a few comments to make.
Madam Speaker, I believe that as a country, we need to set our priorities right. It is very, very important. Madam Speaker, maybe, the Hon Minister will still help us. Madam Hajia Meri Issaka, for this wonderful achievement, my question is, as a country, what have we done for her? She has achieved a lot for Ghana; she has won that international award.
My question is, as a country -- what have we done for her? Madam Speaker, I believe that as a country and it is not only about the government, corporate entities, what have we done? Madam Speaker, go round, you will see people who have contested for Miss Ghana Pageant, their portraits are all over the place; Miss Malaika -- all over the place. This is a woman of substance we have, somebody who has achieved that international feat for Ghana. At least, we should have to write -- for this wonderful woman of substance --
Madam Speaker, we talk of maternity leave for our women. These days it is so disturbing, Madam Speaker. Kids as old as six months, even four months, you will see them and their parents driving them to their various crèches and whatever it is. Sometimes they are woken up as early as 4.00 a.m. It is so disturbing. So therefore, I am urging the government to extend the maternal leave for our women. The three months is not adequate considering the
growing stages of kids -- three months is too early for them to return to work. So at least, if it is about six months, the kids would have been a bit matured so that they can be carried to their crèches.
Madam Speaker, another very important issue -- and this one I raised it at the last Parliament -- this Parliament should begin to consider granting paternity leave for men. Paternity leave for men is crucial at this moment. We have men who actually act as if they are so much busy and therefore, they have little time for their kids. They pretend they are going to workshops, attending seminars and so busy doing so many things, leaving the woman alone and the kids without the kind of support the kids need from their daddies.
Early parental care is key, especially from the daddy so that it is important that men devote more time and attention to their kids so that they grow up -- and love their kids.
Madam Speaker, where I come from, for example, most of us grew up loving only our mothers. Yes, we grew up loving only our mothers because at our early or infant stages our fathers were nowhere to be found. So it is very important that -- and I am speaking as a responsible father - Yes, very important -- as a very responsible father and I am so much concerned about the development of my kids. So it is important we look at granting paternity leave to fathers so that they have much more time, they will have no excuse, they will stay at home and take care of their kids.
Madam Speaker, with these few words, I thank the Hon Member who made the Statement.
Thank you.
Madam Speaker 12:30 p.m.
Thank you very much. Time is far spent, two more -- one
here, one there.
Mr Sampson Ahi (NDC - Juaboso) 12:40 p.m.
Thank you, Madam Speaker --
Madam Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Very fast, please.
Mr Ahi 12:40 p.m.
Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to the Statement.
Madam Speaker, I think this issue is very important and all of us must show concern. Madam Speaker, I want to dwell on accessibility to medical care in the rural communities.
Madam Speaker, I want to call on the Ministry of Health to actually develop the Community Health (Based) Planning Services (CHPS) compound system so that medical care would be closer to our women. When we go to the rural communities, a pregnant woman has to travel a long distance on a very long road to access medical care and because of these challenges, most women refuse to access medical facilities.
The few ones that we have, because of the deplorable nature of the facilities in the various communities, nurses, when posted to such places, refuse to accept postings to go there to provide medical care to our pregnant women.
I know that there is a policy at the
Ministry of Health to support nurses who accept postings to rural communities and I want the Ministry of health to actually consider this aspect so that it would serve as motivation to attract health workers to the rural communities.
When we are talking about maternal mortality, it also brings in roads -- our bad roads. This is because if a pregnant woman has to travel on a very bad road to be able to benefit from healthcare,
Madam Speaker 12:40 p.m.
Yes, a woman - Yes, finish very quickly because time is far spent.
Mrs Akosua Frema Osei-Opare (NPP - West Ayawaso Wuogon) 12:40 p.m.
Thank you, Madam Speaker. I specially thank you because there were so many aspirants to this last slot and I am grateful to you for being the gender sensitive mother that we have in this House.
Madam Speaker, I would first want to commend the Hon Member who made the Statement for bringing this important issue to the floor of Parliament. She has been a champion of this cause and I have noticed that - I saw a programme on
Madam Speaker 12:50 p.m.
I thank you very
much. Statement time is ended.
Now, l e t u s move on to t he Commencement of Public Business -- Presentation and First Reading of Bills -- 6 (a), Attorney-General and Minister for Justice.
BILLS - FIRST READING 12:50 p.m.
PAPERS 12:50 p.m.
Madam Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Hon Leader, we have got to item 8.
Mr Avoka 12:50 p.m.
Madam Speaker, we
will continue with item 8 - that is the Consideration of the Students Loan Trust Fund Bill, 2010.
Madam Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Yes, Hon Members,
it will be continued by the First Deputy Speaker who will take the Chair.
12.57 p.m. -- MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Hon Members, item 8 on the Order Paper - Students Loan Trust Fund Bill, 2010 at the Consideration Stage.
BILLS CONSIDERATION STAGE 12:50 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee 12:50 p.m.
Mr
Speaker, I beg to move, clause 15, subclause (1), line 3, delete “of its functions” and insert “of the functions of the Fund.”
This is to make it more specific because of its functions [Interruption] What functions? So we felt it is just better to be specific.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Mathias A. Puozaa 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 15, subclause (2), line 2, delete “Board” and insert “Fund”.
This is necessary because the Fund represents the whole organization but when we talk of the Board, we are just talking of the people appointed to serve them.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Puozaa 1 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, clause 15, subclause (3), line 1, after “advisers” insert “and consultants”.
We felt that we should rather refer to consultants, that is, qualified people to handle and to assist.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
You mean in addition to the advisers?
Mr Puozaa 1 p.m.
In addition to the advisers.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Very well.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 15 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 16 - Internal auditor.
Mr Puozaa 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 16, subclause (1), delete “There shall be appointed” and insert “The President shall in accordance with article 195 of the Constitution, appoint an Internal Auditor of the Fund.”
The Committee felt that this would be in line with what the Constitution dictates.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 16 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Yes, Hon Member for Akropong?
Mr W. O. Boafo 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just wanted to draw your attention to the Order Paper. There is an omission. Yesterday, when we were considering clause 3, we proposed an addition of two paragraphs which touch on financial issues and the Question was deferred for debate to continue.
Mr Speaker, on the Votes and
Proceedings, page 11, it appears that the debate was deferred but on the Order Paper for today, it is not included. If our attention is not drawn to this omission, it will escape us all.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Hon Member for Akropong, you are right and it will appear tomorrow. Once we have not determined the whole clause, when we get back to it, then we will sort it out. But it will appear tomorrow.
Mr Boafo 1 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Clause17 - Disbursement from the Fund.
Mr Puozaa 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 17, line 1, delete “money” and insert “moneys” and in the line 2, delete “the proportions” and insert “accordance with the formula” and, at end, insert “and approved by Parliament”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, what is your view on that amendment?
Mr Avoka 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was not part of the winnowing, so I do not want to offer a position which might not be consistent with -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Bringing in
Mr Opare-Ansah 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think this is simply a formula and my expectation is that this will happen only once in a year, just like we do for GETFund, District Assemblies Common Fund and the National Health Insurance Fund. So once that is done, the actual disbursement will happen through administrative mechanism. So I do not think it will really affect the disbursement process.
It is only for Parliament to have an input in making sure that for any particular year, it is not unduly skewed towards a particular item that will not benefit our constituents. So I think it is in order. And Mr Speaker, as you very well know, normally, when these things come to the House, we attend to them with due diligence and they never stay here for long. So I do not think we will offer any impediment in the process of disbursement.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
We have to take into account the academic years and all those things which do not coincide with the financial year and a whole lot of things. I want to look at the practical aspect of this matter. For example, schools resume sometimes in August or September and we come in October. I think that we may
want to look at this thing critically. I believe that, yes, everybody should
be accountable to this House; there is no doubt at all about that. We should make them accountable to this House. But in doing so, we must look at the practicality of it so that it does not cause undue hardship to the very people that we are trying to help by this enactment.
I just want to throw light on it and then let us look at it; we will come back to it at the appropriate time.
Mr Joseph Osei-Owusu 1:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, requiring approval of the House is in my view the best way to make sure that not only disbursement but the principles that guide the disbursement are followed.
Of course, if the agency is doing its work well, it should know the calendar of the House; it should know when to bring what, to get what they deserve. I think it is important because as we Sit now, there is a secretariat responsible for Ghana Government Scholarships. None of us here knows how they are distributed; none of us knows how or who benefits -- across board. Yet we are supposed to be the people to whom other people will come when they need it . If my constituents or your constituents ask you how to benefit from government scholarships, you will not know.
I think that it is important that as people with oversight responsibility, matters that concern everyday arrangements, matters that will come to us in our constituencies anyway, we should be able to provide information based on what is brought to us here.
The fear expressed by Mr Speaker may be a genuine fear but I think it is a fear that can easily be overcome if the managers of
the Fund know the calendar of the House and they can prepare their programmes and bring them within time so that they do not interfere with the business.
Dr Joseph S. Annan 1:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think, as has been correctly pointed out by your goodself, the issue of the Fund disbursement is actually a very operational one and it is not a matter of policy. If you go back to the functions of the Board, clause 6 (1), you will see that the Board is, indeed, responsible for the management of the Fund and shall - if you go down to paragraph (e) - “disburse money from the Fund.” And before you go onto that, it is to determine procedures for its management; and under paragraph (b), “monitor and evaluate the operations and performance of the Fund.”
So, Mr Speaker, if we change that in this clause it might be contradictory. I would urge that we look at clause 17 as it stands, and if anything, maybe, use the term “moneys of the Fund”. But I think we should be very clear that this is an operational disbursement to eligible students and the proportions will vary according to the funds available at any time.
Given the fact that the Students Loan Trust is also being asked to source funding from elsewhere, it is not all within the purview of Parliament to then determine how the funds are going to be disbursed virtually on term-to-term or day-by-day basis. So I think it should stand as it is.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Hon Members, you know we have the Export Development and Investment Fund (EFIF) Fund, for example, and the Capital Venture Fund. These are Funds that the slightest delay can affect somebody's business and all those things. I want you to look at some of these things. It is not every Fund in my view - There are a lot of Funds that this House has set up that do not necessarily come to this House in terms of
a formula. If you look at the whole Bill, there is no provision for a formula. It is now being introduced for the first time and I have also been informed that what we are trying to do was set up by Deed of Trust or so and it is now being converted into an Act of Parliament. I just threw in these things so that we think aloud.
Mr Avoka 1:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I share the same sentiments and I just want to add that we should distinguish this one from the GETFund and the District Assemblies Common Fund (DACF) which come here for parliamentary approval or application. I think that the scope is quite different.
If you talk about the GETFund or the District Assemblies Common Fund, it enjoins the whole country's development, et cetera. But this is just to disburse to eligible students and so, I do not think that there is need for it to be brought here for us to approve when there is a Board that is managing the Fund. So I think that we should leave it as it is.
Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am of the view that since what this amendment seeks to do has already been catered for under the functions of the Board, that is in clause 6, I think we should safely drop it. So I want to withdraw this amendment. This is because what it seeks to do is already catered for in clause 6.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Very well. The amendment is in your name and if you think that you want to withdraw it, then -
Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I mean the line (1) still stands.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
The line (1) is consequential. We all agreed yesterday that wherever you see “money”, it should be “moneys”, we agreed yesterday and directed the Table Office accordingly; so it is consequential.
Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is what I am asking your good office to withdraw.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
You are withdrawing? The amendment is in your name. I am not -
Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
I am asking that we withdraw that.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Very well. I will - Hon Members, let us continue then.
Clauses 18 to 20 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 21 - Application for funding.
Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 21, subclause (2), delete and insert the following:
“Application shall be accompanied with guidelines for the non- r e f u n d a b l e p r o c e s s i n g f e e determined by the Board.”
Mr Speaker, it is more elegant than what we have at the moment. The amendment will be better than what we have.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, upon a second
thought, I think there is no need for that amendment.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
I thought
your amendment was neater? “If the Fund is not exhausted” and if “moneys are available in the Fund.”
Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my proposed
amendment is to make the paragraph look more elegant.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
So are
you moving it or you are withdrawing it?
Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,
clause 21, subclause (4), paragraph (a), subparagraph (i), delete and insert the following:
“moneys are available in the Fund”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
This

Question put and amendment agreed

to.
Mr Puozaa 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 21, subclause (6), line 1, delete “credit facility” and insert “loan” and in line 2, delete “credit”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
What is
the difference between “credit facility” and “loan”?
Mr Puozaa 1:20 p.m.
Well, we felt that it was
better to refer to it as a “loan.” We just want to call a spade a spade. And I think “credit facility” can mean other things, other than just “loan.”. You have taken a loan, so it is “loan.”
Mr Avoka 1:20 p.m.
We agree.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Very well.
Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, as he rightly
pointed out, “credit facility” is more elaborate and we need to be specific and moreover, it is consistent with the thrust of the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Yes, the Short and the Long Titles of the Bill.
Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
Yes, it is not students'

overdraft.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Very well.
Question put and amendment agreed
to.
Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,
clause 21, subclause (6), line 2, at end, delete “facility” and insert “loan.”
Mr Speaker, the proposed amendment is just to maintain some consistency in the Bill, hence the deletion of reference to “facility” and substitution of “loan.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
What is
the difference between the one we have agreed to and what you have moved now?
Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, one is
“credit,” line 2 -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
You are
all dealing with subclause (6) and in fact, I did not see it early, rather I would have asked you to move the two amendments jointly. I did not see it because it was at the back of the - but subclause (6), line 2, delete “facility” and insert “loan” -- Is it different from what we have just agreed to, Hon Member?
Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the one we
adopted relates to line 1.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
And then
you also have line 2 there.
Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
In line 2, there is a
proposal to delete “credit” before “risk” and my proposal is delete “facility” at the end and substitute “loan.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
You have to help me.
Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the full rendition will be that
“where an applicant is granted a loan by the Board, the applicant shall bear the full risk of the loan.”
So we delete on line 1, “credit facility” and substitute “loan” and then on line 2, we delete “credit” without any substitution and at the end of line 2, we delete “facility” and insert “loan.”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Very well,
I have got it now.
Mr Mathias K Ntow 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I
think whether it is a “loan facility” or a “credit facility”, it is still a “facility”. So it does not make much difference. Or Hon Members, if there is a difference, maybe, a “loan credit facility, or loan facility”, they are not the same.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Hon
Member, I think the point being made by the Hon Member for Akropong is that, he wants to put the matter beyond doubt. We are talking about “loan', simpliciter. He wants to make sure that we emphasise the “loan” in the Bill.
Question put and amendment agreed
to.
Mr Puozaa 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 21, subclause (7), line 2, delete “Commission on Human Rights and Administrative Justice” and insert “Complaints Committee of the Fund.”
As we said yesterday, we felt that this thing should be as internally governed as possible.
Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that is
precisely the rationale behind the proposed amendment; that we want to set up an internal due process.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
In any case, that does not prevent anybody from going to CHRAJ, anyway. It will not, so before you go, you have to exhaust the
Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if you go to
the next proposed amendment, it takes care of -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Very
well, thank you very much, Hon Member for Akropong.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Boafo 1:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to
move, clause 21, subclause (7), line 2, after “may” insert “within twenty-one days from the date of the decision” and in line 3, at end, delete “of the decision” and insert the following:
“but without prejudice to any other remedy or relief that the applicant may opt to pursue.”
Mr Speaker, the proposed amendment is to take care of situations where the aggrieved student or borrower would not be deprived of the access to the other judicial fora if he should decide to or desire to go to the High Court for certiorari to quash the decision of the Board. He would not be told at the High Court that he should go back to exhaust the local remedies before he can appear at the High Court.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
Do we
need to put it there in this case? People know their rights anyway.
Mr O. B. Amoah 1:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Member for Akropong is known as “Mr Elegance.” [Laughter.] Obviously, he wants it to be inserted for the avoidance of any doubt, but I think it is not really necessary. It speaks for itself that once you have that remedy, you do not need to put it here before you can exercise that remedy. So we may, as well, leave it out and it
would still carry the same implication.
Mr Boafo 1:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, a typical
example is in the Employment Law where within the company itself, you have to pass certain things through the stewards or you have a disciplinary committee within the company which should be allowed to hear you before you can take up any matter to the court for wrongful dismissal.
Mr Speaker would bear me out that he has the experience of employees being sent back to their employers to exhaust local remedies before they can pursue an action in the High Court or any other competent court of jurisdiction for a relief of wrongful dismissal. And this is what this is intended to do. I thought he can go, he can choose to -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
Hon Member for Akropong, it is dangerous; we have added all the private institutions that are going to be beneficiaries. The thousands of students that we are going to deal with, if all should run to the court without exhausting any internal mechanism, we are creating chaos; we are creating chaos in this country and we might not be able to contain it. So that is my fear. It is just like, if all of us decide that we should be taking electricity company to court, the company will collapse and they will not be able to deliver, and there is a certain public policy in that direction.
There is a certain attitude towards that because, at the end of the day, the organization will collapse completely and may not even render any service at all. So, the number of students that have an issue that they are aggrieved at, and without exhausting any internal mechanism, they run to court and the Commission for Human Rights and the Administrative Justice (CHRAJ), the Board will spend all the time defending suits in court and they will not have time to discharge their core business. I want you to look at it from that angle.

So there should be a certain internal mechanism which should allow them to look at it so that they can address it first before they may want to go elsewhere. I do not know.

Hon Member for Akropong?
Mr Boafo 1:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my problem
is that, we do not have to deny them the direct access to the courts, whether the courts would be inundated or not, that is why they are -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
I agree
with you. In any case, by putting it this way, you should also not encourage them to go to court. While we should not deny them, we should also not deliberately encourage them to go to court. This provision is encouraging them to go to court on the slightest grievance.
Mr Kwabena O. Darko-Mensah 1:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do believe that the greatest challenge to our public service has to do with competition. Because there is no competition, everybody is doing anything that he likes, and I believe that for lack of knowledge our people would perish. So if our people know they have this option, naturally, it would help them to actually challenge the decisions.
It would therefore be necessary for the Fund itself to make their internal mechanism competitive to that of the court so that people would not be going to the court but rather would stay with them and sort out issues.
In fact, you have made mention that if people start going to court, it would create chaos. But I tell you that if people also start going to this same place and they are not doing things well, it would also create another type of chaos.
So I do believe that we need to keep it
there so that our people would know that they have a provision to go to court, and those who would be managing the Fund would also know that people have this provision, so if they do not do their work well, they would resort to court, then they can do better.
I believe that if there is competition between the court, and this grievance committee, it would go a long way to allow them to sit up. That is very important.
Mr Avoka 1:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with the
greatest respect to my last speaker and Hon W. O. Boafo, I think we are overstretching the matter. This loan facility is a privilege - [Interruptions.] I think that it is not inalienable right that you must provide a loan for everybody to go to school. We are doing our best under the circumstances and under the Directive Principles of State Policy to ensure that as much as possible, we would educate our people, and then in furtherance of that, we are providing a loan facility or a loan for them to be able to go to school.
So after exhausting the internal mechanisms, I think that if somebody is still aggrieved and go to the Commission for Human Rights and Administrative Justice, that should be enough.
Mr Speaker, you can recall that even
election petitions, where people contest elections, invest their energies, resources and what not, there is a limit; at the Court of Appeal, you do not go to the Supreme Court even though you could have said that it is your right to exhaust all the legal remedies that are available in the country and then come to an end. But there is a ceiling, there must also be a ceiling for this, otherwise, we would bulk down the loan scheme because of one person or two students, then the entire student body of Ghana would be held to ransom.
They would go and then place an injunction there and then nobody would
Mr Osei-Owusu 1:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in considering whether or not to admit this proposed amendment, we should ask ourselves, would our failure or refusal to put this thing there necessarily oust the jurisdiction of the court? I do not think so. Therefore, we do not need to put it there for the court to assume jurisdiction and that is why I think it is superfluous.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
Hon Boafo, I agree with the Hon Member for Bekwai, that its absence does not oust the jurisdiction of the courts. So we better leave it that way.
Mr Boafo 1:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, he is looking
at it from a different angle; he is looking at it from the ousting clause. But I am not looking at it from the ousting clause; I am looking at it from a direct accessibility.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
But
whether we put it or not, it does not oust the jurisdiction of the courts - that is the point that Hon O. B. Amoah made first and then that has been emphasised by the Hon Member for Bekwai. As much as possible, I prefer that we arrive at consensus in these matters so that we may -
Mr Boafo 1:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker may put the
Question.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
I thought
you were withdrawing?
Mr Boafo 1:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think I am not approaching it from the point of view of ousting jurisdiction of the court. I am approaching it from the point of view of protecting the rights of the students - unconstitutional right.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
It is a constitutional guaranteed rights. And this law is subservient to the Constitution of the Republic of Ghana. [Pause.]
Mr Boafo 1:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I withdraw the proposal. [Laughter.]
Mr Speaker 1:40 p.m.
Thank you very much.
Clause 21 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 22 - Loan protection.
Mr Puozaa 1:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 22, subclause (1), delete and insert the following:
“(1) The borrower of the Fund shall subscribe to a Students Loan Protection Scheme that shall indemnify the borrower against payment of outstanding debt to the Fund as a result of death or permanent disability.”
The Committee felt this was more appropriate and more meaningful than what we have in the original document.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, what is your difficulty?
Mr Avoka 1:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have no difficulty. [Laughter.]
Mr Puozaa 1:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 22 , subclause (2), delete and insert the following:
“(2) The Loan Protection Scheme shall cover the duration of the loan. Scheme”
Mr Speaker 1:40 p.m.
This is an innocuous amendment.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 22 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr Speaker 1:40 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, any signal, any direction, because I am picking some direction.
Mr Avoka 1:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I know it is getting to 2.00 o'clock, but Mr Speaker, if we will arrive at the place where it would be neat for us to end and continue tomorrow. I pray that we can conclude at clause 23 (4) so that tomorrow we can begin from page 11, that is, the Power of Board to demand information; that is clause 24. So if we can conclude 23, then it would be neater for us.
Mr Opare-Ansah 1:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Majority Leader would agree with me, Members are very tired right now -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
I think those two amendments are not very controversial.
Mr Opare-Ansah 1:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, what can be neater than finishing at the bottom of a page? [Laughter.]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
I agree with you also. [Laughter.] But you know that -- to be very honest, let me declassify my source of information. You know, you signalled me; that is why I called the - [Laughter] -- I respect your signal; that is why I called on the Hon Majority Leader. So let us arrive at a compromise -
Mr Opare-Ansah 1:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, prior to signalling you, I had signalled across to my - by calling and I saw him passed on the information. So since I did not get anything back, I thought that my signal --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
So let us do the 23 - two quick amendments there.
Yes, Chairman of the Committee.
Clause 23 - Deductions from salary of employee for repayment.
Mr Puozaa 1:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 23, subclause (3), line 3, delete “Board” and insert “Fund” and in line 4, delete “from the salary of the employee”.
I think it is self-explanatory.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Puozaa 1:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 23, subclause (4), line 4, delete “at the prevailing interest rate plus five per cent on the loan granted by the Fund to the borrower” and insert the following:-
I think it says the same thing in fewer words.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
Hon Member for Akropong (Mr Boafo), is it elegant to put the interest rates, the penalty, plus five per cent there? What about if there are changes, you have to come back to the House? As for the prevailing interest rates, we all know the prevailing interest rates. So it does not create a problem, but where you put those things there, it means that each time you want to change the penalty, you must come to the House or whatever.
Mr Boafo 1:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have always been wondering why in some of these legislations, we are very specific with figures.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
You know that when you put it and you want to amend, you must always come to the House?
Mr Boafo 1:40 p.m.
So Mr Speaker, the rendition could be:
“deducted at the prevailing interest rates plus a penalty to be determined by the Board.”
Mr Puozaa 1:40 p.m.
We felt that it might be better having a specific figure. If you say -- Then we would be leaving it to the discretion of the Board.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
Yes, I agree with you. But you also know that if you want to change, you must also come back and pass through the process of passing, a new Bill. Have you also looked at that?
So I would defer this matter and let us consult on it and end the debate at this level so that we can consult on this matter and see the neater way to handle the penalty issue.
Once you do not want to give an uncontrolled power to the Board to fix any percentage, at the same time too, you
would also put it here. Anytime you want to do any adjustment, you must always pass the whole Bill through Cabinet, coming through the House and all those things.
Yes, Chairman?
Mr Puozaa 1:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we accept the position taken.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
Very well.
Mr O. B. Amoah 1:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it appears we still have a lot to do in respect of the Students Loan Trust Fund and we do not know whether we seem not to be starting this Consideration Stage early enough. We seem to be spending quite a shorter time when it comes to the consideration of this particular Bill. I do not know whether we can have a way of getting it forward because usually at this time of the day, the House is always empty and then we spend only an hour and then we are forced to abandon this. So instead of spending a week in completing this, we end up spending weeks and it becomes rather frustrating moving forward.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Well, Hon Amoah, for today, you are right but yesterday, we sat for a very long time to consider this Bill. Yesterday, we sat from 11 o'clock up to almost 2 o'clock. But today, yes, you might -
Mr Avoka 1:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I share his concern. I think that sometimes we over- indulge in certain matters. For example, today, we spent over two hours on Question time when the Standing Orders are very specific and clear that we needed to spend one hour. Then we spent too much time on the Statements, about twenty, thirty people speaking on the Statement when we could have saved time.
So I think we might have to keep to the rules of the Standing Orders because we appreciate our programme as of now. But if we have to work at the Oil Production and Exploration Bill, we have to look at the Petroleum Revenue Management Bill and take the Budget and we are going at a slow pace and then taking too many Questions or allowing everybody to ask a question, we are really in trouble.
So maybe, the Leadership and your goodself and Madam Speaker will have readdressed our focus.
Mr Opare-Ansah 1:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do share the concern raised by the Hon Member for Aburi-Nsawam that he would agree with me that Standing Order 53 sets out the order of Business in the House and it is not for nothing that issues of grave importance, such as Questions to Hon Ministers come in our Orders in terms of the Order of Business before taking on Bills, including the Consideration Stage of Bills.
Mr Speaker, as to over-indulging in some aspects of our business, I believe it is very, very important. And indeed, if you look at our Standing Orders, they recognize that when we are having Answers and supplementary questions to an Urgent Question, the limitation of our Standing Orders does not apply. Besides that, even where the limitation applies, Mr Speaker, you are still flexible in making the determination of whether to actually restrict us to one hour.
So while I want to share the concerns of the Majority Leader, I want to say that it is not over-indulgence, we are here representing our constituents and so when a matter comes up and we feel and it is the mood of the House that that matter has to be fully discussed and debated and exhausted, we should not be thinking that
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
Hon Members, it is for all of us to see how we manage the House with regard to time. Today, I think that we spent so much time on Questions and Statements and all those things. Again, the Chair is also careful not to do anything as if we are gagging Hon Members of this House.
But Standing Order 53 allows the Chair to alter the order of business on the Order Paper. By leave of Madam Speaker, the order of business set out in the Order Paper may be altered on any particular day. The rules allow us to -- but the point being made by the Majority Leader also is that Public Business takes precedence over Private Members' Business and that is a standard practice. So we may have to be managing the Private Members' Business vis- a- vis that of Public Business in such a way that Government or Public Business does not suffer.
So I will convey the feeling and the sentiments of Hon Members to the Rt Hon Madam Speaker so that we can see how we can take it up from there.
Thank you very much.
Mr Cletus A. Avoka 1:50 p.m.
My time now reads 2 o'clock and I beg to move, that we do now adjourn proceedings until tomorrow at 10 o'clock in the forenoon.
Mr Frederick Opare-Ansah 1:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion for the adjournment of the House and in doing so, I want to remind the Leader of the House that we are not Sitting according to his time, we are Sitting according to the time of Parliament and that shows five minutes to 2 o'clock - [Laughter.]
Question put and Motion agreed to.
ADJOURNMENT 1:50 p.m.
  • The House was accordingly adjourned at 1.55 p.m. till Friday, 29th October, 2010 at 10.00 a.m.