Debates of 14 May 2015

MR SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:55 a.m.
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:55 a.m.
Mr Speaker 10:55 a.m.
Hon Members, Correstion of the Votes and Proceedings of Wednesday, 13th May, 2015.
  • [No correction was made to the Votes and Proceedings of Wednesday, 13th May, 2015.]
    • Mr Speaker 10:55 a.m.
    Hon Members, we do not have any Official Report for correction today, so we will move on to Question time.
    Hon Members, we have the Hon Minister for Finance in the House to respond to Questions from Hon Members. We will start with Question number 345 standing in the name of the Hon Member for Offinso North.
    ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 10:55 a.m.
    MINISTRY OF FINANCE 10:55 a.m.
    Minister for Finance (Mr Emmanuel S. Terkper) 10:55 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, in the recent past, we have used the occasions of the annual budgets and mid-year reviews to report to Parliament on the status of releases of statutory funds, including the National Health Insurance Levy. The introduction of Ghana Integrated Financial Management and Information System (GIFMIS) will help improve our accounting and reporting systems, and ultimately, the timely submission of/ and instant electronic access to reports on the National Health Insurance Levy to this august House.
    Mr Speaker, releases from the National Health Insurance Levy into the Health Insurance Fund stood at GH¢828,389,000 in 2013 and GH¢1,063,199,000 in 2014. In 2015, payment to the NHIF has been made up to date. This means that the Ministry has fulfilled all its obligations to the NHIF including payment of all arrears. The detailed releases from the Health Insurance Levy into the Heatlh Insurance
    Fund for 2013 and 2014 financial years, as received from the Controller and Accountant-General, are provided below:
    SPACE FOR TABLE - PAGE 2 -
    Mr Ntim 10:55 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would want to find out from the Hon Minister whether he is aware that the major challenge facing the National Health Insurance Authority (NHIA) now is not the delay in the releases of funds but the financial gaps that need to be filled, so that the NHIA would be able to pay the service providers. As we speak, it is in the tune of GH¢432 million.
    I would want to find out whether he is sufficiently informed, and if he is aware, what measures is he putting in place to address that gap.
    Mr Terkper 10:55 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Ministry is aware of various reports that have been prepared on this matter. We are aware that when it comes to the sustainability of the National Health Insurance Scheme (NHIS) as well as other issues related to its efficient operation, the Ministry of Health has a primary responsibility and we support by providing advice.
    So, Mr Speaker, the Question is related to releases that were made, and I have been in the House in the past where arrears were part of those releases. So, we are reporting on the releases aspect as required by the Question.
    Mr Ntim 10:55 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to find out from the Hon Minister whether he is also aware that, as we speak, the NHIA owes service providers since December 2014. Mr Speaker, because of want of money as a result of the financial gap, providers are in serious business hitch because of interests and others. What is he going to do with respect to the interests the service providers are incurring as a result of the delay in the release of the funds?
    Mr Terkper 11:05 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the NHIF is established with a structure which even involves the Board for the Fund, and some of the issues being raised by the Hon Member are issues which we are aware have been tackled by the secretariat of the Board as well as the sector Ministry.
    Mr Speaker, my Colleague the Hon Deputy Minister for Health has been on record as the person with responsibility for addressing some of the issues which have been raised. It is in this context that I drew the Hon Member's attention to the fact that, the arrears of the releases which were the major impediment as a result of the realignment of the budget have now been resolved, and the sustainability is used as a result of the popularity of the Scheme and its expansion. These are issues that the Ministry of Health is tackling in conjunction with the Ministry of Finance since it involves financial issues and likely fiscal implications.
    Mr Ntim 11:05 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, we were also told by the Ministry of Health that an amount of GH¢261 million has been released as a bailout to the National Health Insurance Scheme. I would want to find out from him the status of that bailout, whether it is part of the implementation of the 2015 budget or it is a special package to bail the National Health Insurance Authority out of their predicament.
    Mr Terkper 11:05 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the word “bailout” has become very popular in recent times and therefore, though it is true that some have referred to the amount that was released as a bailout, we did not describe it as such. What we said was that we had paid the arrears and we were current with the payment of what is due the National Health Insurance Authority. As my answer stated:
    “…the payment to the NHIF has been made up to date...”
    Including the current quarter.
    Mr Speaker 11:05 a.m.
    Hon Member for Old Tafo?
    Dr Anthony Akoto Osei 11:05 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, reading the Answer, if one is not careful, one would think that a release means that money has been put there. So, would the Hon Minister be kind enough to explain to us what exactly a release means? This is because the impression is being given that the Ministry has so much money and they have paid through the end of the second quarter. “Frontloading”, that is the word used here.
    Mr Speaker, is the Hon Minister saying that there is cash to the amount of GH¢261.9 million available to the National Health Insurance Authority or just a letter saying that this may be available to them? And related to that is the issue of arrears. This is because I think he came to seek permission to pay the arrears two or three years down the line but his Answer is said, “including payment of all arrears”.
    Mr Speaker, we gave him permission to pay later, but he is saying that he is paying it all now. If he could take his time to explain that, I think it would help elucidate better on the answer. This is because in the next answer, he explained
    the difference but it is not here. So, people might get the impression that there is cash available to NHIA; meanwhile, they have been saying that the Ministry owes them.
    Mr Terkper 11:05 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the releases made to the National Health Insurance Authority have been paid. I have been to this House on not less than three occasions, excluding this one, to explain National Health Insurance issues.
    Mr Speaker, given the diversity of the Fund and the providers that are involved, it is important that we ease the pressures that the Fund was paying. Therefore, with the accommodation that we had, it is important that we paid in order that the providers' commitments would also be met.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Member raised the issue of sustainability, which is a different Question from what has been put to me. What we came to the House to seek is the totality of the statutory Fund arrears that posed a problem. This is because we had to clear other arrears and the downturn in the economy. So, that answer had to be given taking the totality of all the statutory Fund arrears; that timetable is still on. What it means is that, we would have paid down the National Health Insurance Fund component of those arrears. It does not mean that we have paid down all the arrears.
    Mr Ignatius Baffour Awuah 11:05 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would like to know from the Hon Minister, in considering the formula for the distribution of the NHIA Fund for 2014 and 2015, it came to light that there was a funding gap of about GH¢400 million. The Hon Minister said that they had fulfilled all their obligations, including the arrears. I just want to know whether that includes the funding gap. This is because when we asked, the NHIA leadership mentioned that they were looking up to the Ministry
    of Finance to provide money for the funding gap. So, I just want to know whether that money has been provided.
    Mr Terkper 11:05 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think we should separate the two issues. The obligation of the Ministry of Finance, currently, provided by law, is to provide a certain proportion of funds that are collected as though they were a valued added tax and pay it to the National Health Insurance Authority in addition to the portion which the Social Security and National Insurance Trust (SSNIT) collects. These are the statutory responsibilities as they stand now.
    Mr Speaker, now, in passing that law, a certain trajectory of growth and other factors for the Fund was envisaged. That is what I am referring to and saying that we have met those commitments. When we come to Parliament and make an estimate of what is due the statutory Fund, it is based on 7.5 per cent of the District Assemblies Common Fund (DACF), a total of 2.5 per cent of Value Added Tax (VAT) for Health Insurance and then GETFund, which has 2.5 per cent. Then we make estimates for other statutory Fund payments like the Road Fund, which has a percentage based on the schedule or the pricing structure. So, those are the primary responsibilities.
    Mr Speaker, as with every scheme -- and that is the second element -- the growth and sustainability of the Scheme has to do with other factors which may be within or beyond this provision. That is the other question that has been asked. That goes to the structure of the Scheme, whether it is growing faster than was envisaged and therefore, whether it is possible to meet the full requirement of that growth, going forward. If not, and a
    funding gap opens, how would it be addressed? That may involve, maybe, looking at the Scheme's efficiency issues. But ultimately, should we increase the levy? That is a separate question and that is not part of the responsibilities, and that is what I referred to as being put under the responsibility of the Hon Deputy Minister for Health. There is a caretaker Minister for Health but immediately, the substantive Minister takes over -- At the present time, the Hon Deputy Minister for Health, Dr Bampoe is the one who is working on that in line with the directive from the Office of the President.
    Mr Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    Hon Members, I have decided to allow a number of questions on this issue because of the importance of the National Health Insurance Scheme to our people. But the issue really is that the Question is not about the financing gap. I have tried to relax the rules to create the impression that the Chair does not want people to discuss or pose questions on National Health Insurance.
    I think that we should get the Question that has been posed by the Hon Member for Offinso North and the response that had been provided to form the basis of the supplementary questions.
    From now onwards, I will be very strict with the questions that are posed.
    Hon Member for Wa West? Then after that, Manhyia South.
    Mr Joseph Yieleh Chireh 11:15 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, if we look at the Question that was asked, the Hon Member wanted to know what measures the Hon Minister had put in place to inform this House of the releases that he made to the National Health Insurance, and that means that the details that are now generating all these
    Mr Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    What is your question?
    Mr Chireh 11:15 a.m.
    The question is, can the Hon Minister assure this House that he has actually put in place a reporting mechanism to this House?
    Mr Terkper 11:15 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, yes, we have. We have had the two methods we use to report to the House, that is, the budget and the mid-year budget. But we have recognised that given the importance of the Scheme, the House would require frequent reports, and we would endeavour to do that.
    Mr Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    Hon Member for Manhyia South?
    Dr Matthew Opoku Prempeh 11:15 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, in the light of your statement that you want to restrict us, and in the light of what the Hon Member for Wa West has raised, the issue is not about his reporting mechanism so far. That is not the issue.
    The law, Act 852, imposes an obligation on the Minister for Finance to report to us on a quarterly basis how much money has been released. That is the law, and that is the intendment of the Question and what the Hon Member for Wa West has just said.
    So, the assurance we need is the Hon Minister telling us that every quarter, he is going to write to Mr Speaker and tell us
    about the amount he has released. That is the assurance we want.
    Mr Terkper 11:15 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, we will do so, because we have an obligation to comply with the laws of the country.
    Mr Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    Last question, Hon Deputy Minority Leader.
    Mr Dominic B. A. Nitiwul 11:15 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, thank you very much.
    I see the Hon Minister's Answer on page 2, that in January he released GH¢35 million; in February, he released GH¢86 million; in March, GH¢63 million; and he has front-loaded GH¢261 million to cover even the second quarter.
    What I would like to find out from the Hon Minister is how much was generated from the 2.5 per cent National Health Insurance Levy. That is what I would like to find out, not what he has released. How much was generated from that levy?
    Mr Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    Hon Deputy Minority Leader, have you seen the Question and the Answer provided?
    Mr Nitiwul 11:15 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I have seen the Question, and it is very clear on the mechanisms he has used.
    Mr Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    The reporting mechanism that is imposed on the Hon Minister by virtue of Act 852.
    Mr Nitiwul 11:15 a.m.
    But Mr Speaker, he is the one who brought us the figures -- the releases. I am not the one who asked him to put out those releases.
    So based on those releases, I would like to find out whether those releases tally with what we gained. That is all.
    Mr Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    Hon Minister, if you have the answer, please, provide it.
    Mr Terkper 11:15 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I do not have the information. [Laughter.]
    Mr Speaker 11:15 a.m.
    Let us make progress. Let us move to the next Question.
    Status of the Annual Budget Funding Amount (ABFA)
    Q.346. Mr Augustine Collins Ntim asked the Minister for Finance the status of the Annual Budget Funding Amount (ABFA) of GH¢29.9 million allocated to the Ministry of Health in the 2013 Budget Statement to finance critical projects in the Ministry and for which work had been stalled for the past several years.
    Mr Terkper 11:15 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health was allocated GH¢29.9 million of the ABFA in 2013 to finance critical projects. The release was not made because the Ministry of Health did not submit the request according to the Ministry of Finance's guidelines for making requests in respect of Capital Expenditure (Capex). Furthermore, the request was not supported by relevant documents.
    Mr Speaker, this notwithstanding, the Ministry of Finance released an amount of GH¢8,791,771.16 from the Contingency Vote to the Ministry of Health for the payment of various projects.
    Mr Ntim 11:15 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, from the Answer given by the Hon Minister, if I may read, with your kind permission:
    “The release was not made because the Ministry of Health did not submit the request according to the Ministry of Finance's guidelines for making requests in respect of Capital Expenditure.”
    I would like to find out from the Hon Minister, what systemic arrangement he has put in place to ensure that the Ministry becomes well equipped with the
    guidelines such that the funds can be sourced for its intended purpose.
    Mr Terkper 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the procedure is, as laid out in the Financial Administration Act and Regulations, which is derived from the Constitution and under which we come to this House; they are embodied in estimates that are presented as part of the preparation of the budget.
    The Ministries are informed about their budgets as well as cash ceilings, in the event that revenue flows are not forthcoming, whereupon they submit releases which are now done electronically through the Ghana Integrated Financial Management Information System
    (GIFMIS).
    So, this is the procedure; it has not changed. But we have issued the budget advisory recently to remind Ministries about some of these procedures.
    Mr Ntim 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the Hon Minister, where the money is sitting now within the Ministry. Is it going to be made available to the Ministry of Health as long as they do the right thing? Is it sitting comfortably for the use of the Ministry of Health?
    Mr Terkper 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, again, in line with the procedure, all funds are paid into the Consolidated Fund . We are guided by the Appropriation Act, which this House passes in making those releases as and when they are submitted and subject to the availability of funds.
    Once these are done, the funds are released into various sub-accounts for the Ministries, Departments and Agencies (MDAs), and the request proceeds further to the Bank of Ghana (BoG) and the
    Mr Speaker 11:25 a.m.
    Yes, your last supplemen- tary question?
    Mr Ntim 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would want to find out whether it is the case that when the Ministry submits the request for money -- the balance of about GH¢20.1 million would be available to the Ministry.
    Mr Terkper 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, Financial Administration Act (FAA) is quite clear that at the end of the year, all expenditures lapse, balances are swept and whenever there are arrears or commitments which have not been met at the end of the year, they are taken on board as part of the budget hearing for the ensuing year, which then goes into the appropriation for the following year. So, I would envisage that if there are payments which have not been made at the end of the year, they would have been included in the non- roads portion of the arrears that this House approves when we submit the Budget Statement.
    Mr Speaker 11:25 a.m.
    Hon Member for Wenchi?
    Prof. George Y. Gyan Baffour 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister said that the oil revenue -- this ABFA which he says are technicalities and people do not
    understand, they are the revenue from oil. He came to this House and said he was going to use them for the Ministry of Health to do certain projects. The Hon Member asked him where the money was and he said he paid it into the Consolidated Fund, so he did not know where it was?
    How is he going to account for it? Did he use it for paying salaries? What did he use it for?
    Mr Terkper 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, between 2013 and 2014, we started streamlining the use of the ABFA itself away from certain ineligible expenditures. This House approved the areas where those funds should be spent. It included roads -- [Interruption.] So, part of the reason these payments were made out of contingency was because some of those payments were not eligible and we had to do virement to conform to the estimates -- not the payments. They were not eligible; and in the realignment, we have now made sure that it is spent on only eligible expenditure. So, the issue does not only involve payments from the ABFA.
    The ABFA is ring-fenced; the account will now pay into a specific account, which is why we are able to report to this House, out of which the payments are made for eligible expenditure. So, I would want to assure the Hon Member that any payment made out of the ABFA are made out of that ring-fence account.
    Dr Stephen (Nana) Ato Arthur 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, GH¢29.9 million allocated to the Ministry of Health was not released. The reasons were that they did not send any request and when they did, the request was not supported by relevant documents. This notwithstanding, GH¢8.8 million was released. On what basis was that GH¢8.8 million released?
    Mr Terkper 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the GH¢8.8 million was released for eligible expenditure and those for which we had documents to support.
    Dr A. A Osei 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, this is a preliminary question.
    In any case, when the report on 2014 ABFA comes from the Public Interest and Accountability Committee (PIAC), we would know how the money was spent.
    Mr Speaker, I think the Hon Minister should check whoever answers these Questions. I would like to read the Answer, with your kind permission:
    “The release was not made because the Ministry of Health did not submit the request…” “Did not…”
    And it says:
    “Futhermore, the request was not supported by relevant documents.”
    If they did not submit, how could they have -- This is very serious.
    Mr Speaker 11:25 a.m.
    What is your question? -- [Laughter.]
    Dr A. A. Osei 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, my question is, can the Hon Minister reconcile these two statements? This is an Answer to Parliament. On one hand, they did not submit and then -- This is very serious.
    Mr Terkper 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the release is part of the documentation. I understand that the Answer should have been improved. We are talking about supporting documents but the total documentation itself includes the releases. So, I do agree that it should have been --
    Mr Speaker 11:25 a.m.
    So, what is the answer? How do you reconcile?
    Mr Terkper 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the reconciliation is that the reason the payment was made out of the Contingency Vote -- [Interruption] -- I said that there were two parts, and I admit to a certain -- yes. But I am explaining that in the virement to pay from the Contingency Vote, some of the expenditure headings, as the earlier question inferred, did not have supporting documents.
    So, we paid for those which came with supporting documents, which would explain why the total amount was not paid. Also, there were constraints. We could not have paid all other Ministries in 2014.
    Dr Prempeh 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, during the debate of the Petroleum Revenue Management Act (PRMA) and the ABFA, one thing was clear. We wanted Ghanaians and the future generation to know specifically what we have used the oil revenue for. That was why we created the special account for these things. And we asked the Ministry of Finance, which is the holder of that account, to have a different reporting mechanism for the account.
    Mr Speaker, if the Minister for Finance said at the Dispatch Box that the money went into the Consolidated Fund, it is even wrong ab initio. How do they account for it? He comes back to tell us a different thing.
    Mr Speaker, I would like the Hon Minister to know that it is not only the GH¢29.9 million which did not go, there is not a specific Ministry which has got its ABFA released. So, if they are improving by realigning and rationalising application, let all of us as Parliament know how our various Ministries which we oversight would be able to put in the application.
    Mr Terkper 11:25 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Member asked a very important question.
    It is my recollection that PRMA was ambiguous to the extent of equating the ABFA or classifying it as part of the Consolidated Fund, which is why one school of thought is that, once it goes into the Consolidated Fund, it becomes part of the fungibles. It is for the avoidance of this doubt that we ring-fence the ABFA.
    In the past, the payments have been made but it was not ring-fenced. So, that was the reason we ring-fence the ABFA.
    The other reason is, yes, it is true that Ghanaians expected that the petroleum funds would be used for projects that are visible, which is why areas were specified. But we were coming out of a period where we also had a lot of pipeline projects, and therefore, what constitutes a road? Is it envisaged that it would be a major highway or toll road or a rural road? We are judicious in ensuring that we do not spend on new projects and then borrow to complete roads.
    Once that is being cleared, I think the streamlining is starting, and we would notice from the report that would be submitted that the substantial amount that went to energy, which is one of the eligible areas, went to pay the Government's contribution for the Gas Processing Plant. That is substantive, and it is something which is visible.
    So, in the course of implementing the law, we are improving and it includes the recommendations that went to your committee, which I believe the report would be submitted soon on other areas of further improvement to the PRMA.
    Mr Speaker 11:35 a.m.
    Last question.
    Hon Dr Appiah-Kubi?
    Dr Kojo Appiah-Kubi 11:35 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, these issues that we are discussing, all sum up to the problems that we have with health financing. Indeed, it is a topical issue.
    Just yesterday, a summit was held by the Ministry of Health to discuss health financing. It was quite unfortunate that at this summit, the Ministry of Finance, which is supposed to be at the helm of affairs in discussing health financing issues was not present --
    Mr Speaker 11:35 a.m.
    Hon Member, please, ask your supplementary question.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 11:35 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the question that I would like to ask is, why was the Ministry of Finance not available at the Health Summit when issues -- [Interruption.]
    Mr Speaker 11:35 a.m.
    Hon Member, that is not a supplementary question.
    Question number 347 -- by the Hon Member for Ablekuma North.
    Release of funds for the running of Correctional Centres
    Q.347. Mr Justice Joe Appiah asked the Minister for Finance what steps the Ministry was taking to release adequate funds for the efficient running of correctional centres in the country.
    Mr Terkpeh 11:35 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, at least, two main factors influence allocation of funds for the running of Ministries, Departments and Agencies (MDAs) in the country. These are the national resource envelop and the cash flow. The amount allocated to MDAs is dependent on the resource envelop at the time of the preparation of the national budget. After the budget has been approved, how much MDAs receive is dependent on the cash flow.
    Overruns at the end of 2012 led to budget misalignment — to the point that the theme of the 2014 Budget was re- alignment. The situation has improved from the settlement of many of those overruns. Consequently, we are making structural changes to the method of making releases — from a “transaction” to an “institutional” approach.
    Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Finance now makes quarterly releases to MDAs by issuing budget allotment. Once the release is made, the allocations to the various departments and agencies are left to the Ministries to determine according to their priorities. I must add, the estimates. These are based on budget and cash ceilings. Thus, the Ministry of Finance influences only the sector allocations at the budget allotment stage of the budget implementation process.
    Mr J. J. Appiah 11:35 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, I read this from the Answer:
    “Consequently, we are making structural changes to the method of making releases -- from a ‘transaction' to an ‘institutional' approach.”
    Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Finance now makes quarterly releases to MDAs by issuing budget allotments. Once the release is made, the allocations to the
    various departments and agencies are left to the Ministries to determine according to their priorities. These are based on budget and cash ceilings. Thus, the Ministry of Finance influences only the sector allocations at the budget allotment stage of the budget implementation process.
    Mr Speaker, I am not satisfied with the Answer given by the Hon Minister for Finance; he did not even mention the Ministry of the Interior, which is responsible for the borstal issues at the correctional centres.
    Mr Speaker, the Borstal Institute is the only juvenile institute in this country, but when you visit the school, they do not have any basic tools. There is no library or even a computer. But this is an institution that is to reform our children.
    Mr Speaker, I would want to find out from the Hon Minister, what proven measures he is taking, through the Ministry of the Interior, on their release of budget, to upgrade the Borstal Institute and all the centres across this country.
    Mr Speaker 11:35 a.m.
    I am not sure that is a supplementary question. Could you re- phrase it? This is because the aspect the Hon Minister is responsible for is the financial aspect; he is not responsible for the other aspects.
    The Question that you posed is more for the sector Minister, that is, the Hon Minister for the Interior, as you rightly pointed out, but not for the Hon Minister for Finance.
    Mr J. J. Appiah 11:35 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, if so, then why should he answer it?
    Mr Speaker 11:35 a.m.
    Hon Member, please, ask your question.
    Mr Speaker 11:35 a.m.
    Hon Member for Ablekuma North, your Question was admitted because we were talking about financial releases -- the release of funds.
    Mr J. J. Appiah 11:35 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I understand you, but he did not even mention -- [Interruption.]
    Mr Speaker 11:35 a.m.
    So, your Question can only be limited to that aspect. But in terms of the sector -- in terms of what steps are being taken, it is more for -- If you look at our rules, you can only ask an Hon Minister a question of what he is responsible for. If he is not responsible or officially connected to the department, he does not answer the Question. The Hon Minister is only responsible for the financial aspect of the Question.
    You have two more chances. Your first supplementary question has been overruled, so I am waiting for your second supplementary question.
    Mr J. J. Appiah 11:35 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, this Question would be addressed to the Hon Minister for the Interior.
    Thank you very much.
    Mr Speaker 11:35 a.m.
    Hon Members, Question number 348 -- by the Hon Member for Nabdam.
    Review of travel and transport, out- of-station allowance and per diem for
    Civil Servants
    Q. 348. Mr Boniface Gambila Adagbila asked the Minister for Finance what steps were in place to review travel and transport, out-of-station allowance and per diem for civil servants in view of increased prices of goods and services.
    Mr Terkper 11:35 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, travel and transport, out-of-station allowances and per diem are all part of categories 2 and 3 allowances -- the Fair Wages and Salaries Commission (FW&SC) is currently spearheading the implemen- tation of the second phase of the Single Spine Pay Policy (SSPP), which involves rationalisation and stan- dardisation of categories 2 and 3 allowances.
    This was also a subject matter of the Post-Ho Forum on the implementation of the Single Spine Pay Policy held in Takoradi during the last weekend. A technical committee has submitted a draft report on the categories 2 and 3 allowances.
    Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Finance and the Fair Wages and Salaries Commission are currently undertaking the financial implication analysis of the proposed categories 2 and 3 allowances to inform negotiations on these allowances. It is expected that negotia- tions for categories 2 and 3 allowances will commence by June, 2015, as decided in Takoradi.
    Mr Speaker, in the meantime, the Ministries of Finance and Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration are working on standard travel and transport, out-of- station and per diem allowances for civil servants for overseas travel. This work will feed into the work of the FW&SC on categories 2 and 3 allowances.
    Mr Adagbila 11:35 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would like to know further what the Hon Minister, in the meantime, is doing to cushion civil servants in this life. This is because I understand juniors take around GH¢16, senior staff take around GH¢24 as per diem when they travel and the hotel bills are not anything less than GH¢50 a night.
    For feeding, the Hon Minister -- and I know what it is, since he is the number one manager.

    So, what steps is he taking before the technical committee's draft will be looked at and before the Fair Wages and Salaries Commission (FW&SC) would look at, the category 2 and 3 allowances? What is he doing for now to cushion the poor civil servants?
    Mr Terkper 11:45 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, what we have been doing in the interim is precisely providing information and assisting the FW&SC to update the work and which is why we have a technical report which is almost ready for discussions to commence pretty soon.
    Mr Adagbila 11:45 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, my final follow-up.
    I would want to know from the Hon Minister if it would be possible to peg the allowances to the current value of our cedi at any given time, such that when the value of the cedi falls, the civil servant does not suffer negatively in his allowance.
    Mr Terkper 11:45 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, it is not all expenditures that are related or correlated with the value of the currency. This is part of the exercise that has been done. Yes, there may be areas where forex is important, as I indicated towards the end of the Question. If we denominate allowances for overseas travel in cedis, obviously, we would have to make some adjustments. The more relevant index in many cases, is the consumer price index. So, these are some of the factors and on the case by case basis that the technical committee is working on.
    Dr A. A. Osei 11:45 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, in the last paragraph, the Ministry of Finance and the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration are working on some proposal. Originally, when I read the
    Answer, I thought I was taking concrete steps to adjust for them; but this looks like technical work to feed into the work of the FW&SC. Do you think that given the nature of their work, those in the Foreign Service, they have to live with reality, so that if I am posted to Washington DC, I need to be adjusted for that? Are you not taking steps to ameliorate that situation before the technical work is completed? Otherwise, all their income will be eroded.
    Mr Terkper 11:45 a.m.
    Rightly so. Mr Speaker, that is why this work has been given some major priority but also has budget implications.
    Following Cabinet's directive, and in consultation as I said, allowances are part of it; these are special categories; it may be possible that if we can contain it within the budget as we come for mid-year review, we could advance that in consultation with the supplementary budget if we get to that point.
    Mr Speaker 11:45 a.m.
    Hon Members, the communication with regard to Question number 404 has not been brought to my attention. If it has, I would have directed it at the appropriate Hon Minister.
    So, now, I direct accordingly. This is because it will serve no useful purpose for calling the Hon Minister to come and say the same thing. So, Clerks-at-the- Table, I direct accordingly, based on the Answer provided by the Hon Minister for Finance, the Question should be re- directed at the Hon Minister for Employment and Labour Relations.
    Hon Minister for Finance, we thank you very much for attending upon the House to respond to Questions from Hon Members.
    ANNOUNCEMENTS 11:45 a.m.
    OFFICE OF PARLIAMENT 11:45 a.m.
    PARLIAMENT HOUSE 11:45 a.m.
    PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC 11:45 a.m.
    OF GHANA 11:45 a.m.
    Alhaji Mohammed-Mubarak Muntaka 11:45 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, item number (5) five.
    Mr Speaker 11:45 a.m.
    Hon Members, Presenta- tion and First Reading of Bills, item number five (5) -- Nuclear Regulatory Authority Bill, 2015.
    Hon Minister for Environment, Science, Technology and Innovation?
    BILLS -- FIRST READING 11:45 a.m.
    Alhaji Muntaka 11:45 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, we can now take item number six (6) on the Order Paper.
    Mr Speaker 11:45 a.m.
    Hon Members, item number six (6).
    Hon Chairman of the Committee, Mr First Deputy Speaker.
    MOTIONS 11:55 a.m.
    Chairman of the Committee (Mr Ebo Barton-Odro) 11:55 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that this Honourable House adopts the Fifteenth Report of the Appointments Committee on H.E. the President's nominations for Ministerial and Deputy Ministerial Appointments.
    In so doing, I present the Committee's Report.
    Introduction
    In the exercise of the powers conferred on the President by articles 78 (1), 79 (1) and 256 (1) of the Constitution, the President of the Republic of Ghana, His Excellency, John Dramani Mahama, nominated five (5) persons for appointment as Ministers and Deputy Ministers and communicated same to Parliament on the 17th of March, 2015 for their prior approval.
    The nominations were subsequently referred to the Appointments Committee by the Rt. Hon Speaker for consideration and report, pursuant to Order 172 of the Standing Orders of the House.
    The nominations are as follows:
    i) Mr. Alexander Percival Segbefia -- Minister-designate for Health
    ii) Mr Peter Anarfi-Mensah -- Ashanti Regional Minister- designate
    iii) Hon Kwabena Mintah Akandoh -- Deputy Minister- designate for Lands and Natural Resources
    iv) Mr. Samuel Yaw Adusei -- Deputy Minister -designate for Water Resources, Works and Housing
    v) Mr Kenneth Gilbert Adjei -- Deputy Minister-designate for Defence
    Reference documents
    The Committee was guided in its deliberations by the following:
    i. The 1992 Constitution of the Republic of Ghana.
    ii. The Standing Orders of the Parliament of Ghana.
    iii. The Curriculum Vitae of the nominees.
    Procedure for considering the nominations
    As part of its procedures and in line with Order 172 (3) of the Standing Orders of the House, the Committee caused to be published in the national newspapers the notice of its public hearing for the consideration of the nominations and also invited memoranda from the general public in respect of the nominees.
    Confidential reports in respect of the nominees were also obtained from the Ghana Revenue Authority, the Ghana Police Service and the Bureau of National Investigations (BNI) for the purpose of conducting background checks on the nominees.
    Following these activities, the Committee held a 2-day public hearing from Monday, 13th to Tuesday, 14th April, 2015 to consider the nominations in furtherance of Order 172 (3) of the Standing Orders of the House.
    Be for e t h e c om me n c em en t of p r oceed in gs , the nominees subscribed to the Oath of a Witness. The Committee's line of questioning focused on issues relating to the nominees' citizenship, records of their offices, qualification and eligibility, matters pertaining to the offices to which they have been nominated and other issues of national concern.
    The Committee has duly considered the above nominations and reports as follows:
    Dr Matthew O. Prempeh (NPP -- Manhyia South) 12:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion, and would like to add a few comments.
    I hope the Appointments Committee of the House would start evolving a process whereby nominees who come to us, would present to us, like in other bodies, our requirements in a uniformed fashion. If the Appointments Committee does not evolve such a process and we ask nominees to present something like a curriculum vitae (CV), they give different versions and it might not be suitable to our CV experts on our Committee who would interpret it as they wish.
    I hope that the Appointments Committee under, the able leadership of the First Deputy Speaker, would start helping us to evolve a protocol, so that anyone who is coming to the Appointments Committee, would bring a CV and certain requirements in a uniformed fashion in order not to have occurrences that have taken place.
    Mr Speaker 12:05 p.m.
    Hon Member, you must be more specific; you cannot speak at large.
    Dr Prempeh 12:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, you know me, I will drop the penny very soon.
    Mr Speaker 12:05 p.m.
    We are discussing the Report.
    Dr Prempeh 12:05 p.m.
    Yes, it is the Report
    .
    Mr Speaker 12:05 p.m.
    Very well.
    Dr Prempeh 12:05 p.m.
    If you have been made a nominee in the Ministry of Health and Parliament has not consented, could you attend a Ministry of Health function as the Minister for Health? That would be undermining the purpose for which we are here -- [Interruption]
    Dr A. A. Osei 12:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I thought my nephew is a member of the Appointments Committee, so, he was going to state that as a Committee member, they are aware that this has happened. So, I was looking in the Report to see where they put it. As a Committee Member seconding the Motion, he should indicate here as part of the Report -- [Interruption.]
    Mr Speaker 12:05 p.m.
    That was why I asked him to relate it to the Report because the Motion is about the adoption of the Report.
    Alhaji Muntaka 12:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, my Hon Colleague is grossly misleading this House.
    No nominee has attended any function anywhere, purporting himself to be the substantive Minister, if he is saying that there was a meeting that happened and somebody attended. What we all know is that -- I am also a member of the Health Committee -- there was a Health Summit where we were going to look at the performance of the Ministry of Health and the future to the next year, then somebody who had been vetted as an appointment- designate was invited to attend as a participant, just as Members of Parliament were invited to attend.
    Others who were not officials of the Ministry of Health, the media and others were invited and this said gentleman was invited to sit in and listen to the proceedings. At no point in time did he introduce or was introduced as the Minister for Health. So, they are different.
    To say that somebody was there and just because he was nominated, he was carrying himself as the Minister -- If it is not so, he should say where it happened.
    Dr Prempeh 12:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I started by saying we should ask ourselves whether a nominee who has been vetted and has not been approved, can represent himself.
    I have heard two things; the Hon Member for Old Tafo says that it is not in the Report but I am going to refer him to something. This happened after the Report and that is why I said that the Hon Member for Asawase, the Majority Chief Whip, I can understand his jittering. He is grossly out of order. That summit was not organised by somebody else but by the Ministry and it was the Minister who sent us.
    The reason I am saying this is that, on opening that summit, the acting Minister for Health, Hon Haruna Iddrisu addressed us as the acting Minister for Health. What is even more interesting in all this is that the day the nominee was being vetted was the day Hon Haruna Iddrisu had been acting as Minister for Health --
    Mr Speaker 12:05 p.m.
    Hon Member for Manhyia South, did any of the nominees before us, the subject matter of this Report, attend any function and introduced himself as such? That is a very simple issue. If it is so, mention the nominee, so that in future it does not happen.
    Dr Prempeh 12:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, that was why I said that if Hon Muntaka had not interjected with that long elaborate thing, I would have gone on by now. What I want to say is that, Ministers who are nominees -- [Interruption] Yes, I agree with you. It happened yesterday at the Ghana Institute of Management and Public Administration (GIMPA) and it should never happen again. [Interruption.] What? Yes! Not as designate? He said it never happened anywhere and now, he says as designate.
    Mr Speaker, we should not be jumping to defend the indefensible. What is wrong is wrong and you know it is wrong --
    Mr Speaker 12:05 p.m.
    Hon Member for Manhyia South, when we debate issues on the floor and Hon Members are not here to defend themselves, you need to be cautious. Was the nominee introduced as Minister for the sector for which he had been nominated at that meeting?
    Dr Prempeh 12:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, even if he was, he did not introduce himself. So, the person who introduced him might have made a mistake.
    Mr Speaker 12:15 p.m.
    So, why do you visit the sin of somebody on the nominee?
    Dr Prempeh 12:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, this was why I said when I started that, the Appointments Committee should inform nominees who appear before it not to represent themselves as such before the House approves them. And that is all I said. It is someone like the Hon Member for Asawase who is trying to provoke me to say things that I should not be saying
    -- 12:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker 12:15 p.m.
    But he never represented himself as such and that is the point.
    Dr Prempeh 12:15 p.m.
    He does not represent it, and so, he is the Hon Minister for Health for Ghana. -- [Interruption.]
    Mr Speaker 12:15 p.m.
    Please, wind up
    Dr Prempeh 12:15 p.m.
    Thank you Mr Speaker, for allowing me the space.
    Mr Speaker 12:15 p.m.
    Yes, Hon Member for Old Tafo?
    Dr A. A. Osei 12:15 p.m.
    On a point of order.
    Mr Speaker, this is a very serious matter. Either it happened or it did not happen. We are about to approve something that he has introduced some -- We need to step this down and investigate --
    Mr Speaker 12:15 p.m.
    Hon Member for Old Tafo, I posed a question precisely because, I wanted to know what happened. And listening to the Hon Member for Manhyia South, he just told the House that the nominee did not introduce himself
    and neither did he hold himself as such. It was another Hon Minister who mentioned his name at that meeting. And in my view, if that is all that happened, there is nothing wrong with it.
    Dr A. A. Osei 12:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, but he went further to say, and he acknowledged him. -- [Interruption] -- All I am saying is that if we are not sure, -- [Interruption.]
    Mr Speaker 12:15 p.m.
    If a nominee is introduced as an incoming Minister for sector “X” --
    Dr A. A. Osei 12:15 p.m.
    And I say “Yes”, then I have nominated him. -- [Interruption.]
    Mr Speaker 12:15 p.m.
    No, please.
    Hon Member for Manhyia South, please, conclude.
    Dr Prempeh 12:15 p.m.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Speaker, beware of Greeks bearing gifts. They are just pushing me to say things.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Member for Parliament who has been very unfairly caricatured in the media by his responses on his curriculum vitae (CV), I would plead that people should go softly because that is not the true representation of what transpired.
    Mr Speaker, it is very easy for an Hon Member of Parliament to be lampooned in the media. I have recently been lampooned for things that I said or probably have said, but as a body, we should try to protect ourselves. This is because it is only the fool who does not help the neighbour quench the fire in the neighbour's house.
    Mr Speaker, with these short remarks about we evolving the process for competency and a guideline on how people should present documents to us, I support the adoption of this Report by the House.
    Thank you.
    Question proposed.
    Mr Speaker 12:15 p.m.
    Hon Members, I have noticed from the Report that the Committee which presented this Report has made a recommendation by consensus on all the nominees. -- [Interruption.]
    Hon Members, look at what the Standing Orders say. The word used by the Standing Orders is that, it should be by “consensus”. As for the unanimity, I do not know who is importing it into the Report.
    The Standing Orders are very clear and it should either be by consensus or by majority. Our rules are very clear on this matter unless somebody is supporting. I want to know if there are divergence views. Otherwise, I will put the Question, so that we make progress.
    Dr Prempeh 12:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we need direction and this is because this thing keeps coming and it is the Committee you have chaired. The word “unanimous” that does not express itself anywhere and appears in the Report. I have been checking the last Report under your honourable tutelage and why you used the word “unanimous” I do not understand. But it has become a convention. And so, you should give us direction that our Reports should be by either “consensus” or “majority” and then --
    Mr Speaker 12:15 p.m.
    I so direct.
    Dr Prempeh 12:15 p.m.
    So that I can say that one of them, the one by consensus, is majority decision.
    Mr Speaker 12:15 p.m.
    I so direct.
    Yes Hon Member for Old Tafo?
    Dr A. A. Osei 12:15 p.m.
    The Hon Chairman of the Committee made amendments when he had not sought permission. He has not sought any permission to make these amendments and so, we should step it down and let the Committee go back --
    He cannot speak for the Committee. He should go back and make sure --
    Mr Speaker, we have to do the right thing.
    Mr Speaker 12:15 p.m.
    Hon Member for Old Tafo, those amendments were not something that had gone to the roots of the Report. They are not fundamental.
    Dr A. A. Osei 12:15 p.m.
    I read one “unanimous” and you said it was not known to this House and so, I was wondering what it meant.
    Mr Speaker 12:15 p.m.
    Hon Akoto Osei, the Hon Member for Manhyia South said, we continued using it, before me and even when I was Hon Chairman, those words were finding an expression.
    Dr A.A. Osei 12:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, you are sitting in the Chair and you know right?
    Mr Speaker 12:15 p.m.
    Yes.
    Dr A.A. Osei 12:15 p.m.
    You have directed that they should go and amend it
    Mr Speaker 12:15 p.m.
    At least, it shows that there is no disagreement and that is the most important thing.
    Hon Members, let me listen to the Hon Majority Chief Whip, the Hon Member for Effutu, and I will get the sense of the House and based on that, I may put the Question.
    Alhaji Mohammed-Mubarak Muntaka (NDC -- Asawase) 12:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I intend to be very brief. It is just one issue that keeps lingering and it has been mentioned briefly.
    Mr Speaker, it is important that we draw attention to it. That has to do with the declaration of assets. If one looks at the Constitution, many people just think one has to be a politician or a Justice of the
    Mr Alexander K. Afenyo-Markin (NPP -- Effutu) 12:25 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would like to make a brief comment on the second sentence of paragraph (3) on page 9 of the Committee's Report.
    The Committee seeks to clarify the position of the CV of Hon Akandoh.
    Mr Speaker, with the greatest respect, I do not intend to disagree with the Committee, but just for the purpose of the records, I took it upon myself to verify the Curriculum Vitae (CV) of Hon Kwabena Mintah Akandoh. When I checked it, on the issue of employment, he did not include the “dining hall prefect” thing. He rather put it on work experience.
    Mr Speaker, the question is, if one is engaged in work at any sector, perhaps, in school and in writing a CV, one says that, yes, as a dining hall prefect and as a Students' Representative Council (SRC) Representative, I was engaged in some work. That is completely different from saying that it is an employment record. If one is a party organiser, it is a form of

    work. But depending on the nature of the engagement, it may not be an employment engagement.

    Mr Speaker, without questioning the work of the Committee, I think that my brother has suffered some injury of a sort. The impression is being created as if he put on the CV that that is part of employment. But if one scrutinises it, he never said that it is part of employment. He put it as work. So, if he worked as an SRC representative, as a dining hall prefect — Mr Speaker, with the greatest respect, the definition of “work” could be very wide.

    I heard the Hon Chairman of the Committee defining “work” to be a situation where one is paid. But that is a very debatable issue. If one is, for instance, a constituency Chairman, one is not paid but works for the party. If one is an SRC representative, one works on behalf of the students. It is not only a leadership role, but it is work. One engages his time and energy, et cetera.

    Mr Speaker, having expressed my views on that position taken by the Committee, I beg to support the Motion and pray that my good Friend and his Colleagues will discharge their duties in a manner that will save the public purse and carry the vision of Mr President, which we believe, is aimed at ending the dumsor dumsor in the near future.

    Mr Speaker, I am, indeed, grateful for the opportunity.

    Question put and Motion agreed to.

    Resolved accordingly.
    Mr Speaker 12:25 p.m.
    Accordingly, the House has approved the following:
    Mr Alexander Percival Segbefia as Minister for Health; Mr Peter Anarfi- Mensah as Ashanti Regional Minister,
    Hon Kwabena Mintah Akandoh as Deputy Minister for Lands and Natural Resources; Mr Samuel Yaw Adusei as Deputy Minister for Water Resources, Works and Housing, and Mr Kenneth Gilbert Adjei as Deputy Minister for Defence.
    On my own behalf and on behalf of the House, I congratulate all of them.
    First Deputy Speaker to take the Chair.
    Hon Majority Chief Whip — item 7?
    Alhaji Muntaka 12:25 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, yes item number 7.
    BILLS — CONSIDERATION
    STAGE 12:25 p.m.
  • [Resumption of Debate from 13/05/ 2015]
    • Alhaji Mohammed-Mubarak Muntaka 12:25 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am happy that we are on this Bill. The happenings in the media round this Bill yesterday were seriously misrepresented and it is important that we take the opportunity to draw the attention of our colleagues in the media fraternity that they should try and always ask when something is not very clear to them.
    Mr Speaker, we dealt with clauses 5 and 6 yesterday and there, the argument about the definition of “gift” in the Bill came up. I remember very well, the First Deputy Speaker said that we were going to get to clause 22, where “gifts” have been properly dealt with. Unfortunately, since yesterday in the evening, most media houses have taken it that we are saying that “gifts” could go as far as GH¢9,999 and because of this misrepresentation, Hon Members of Parliament were really
    Dr Prempeh 12:25 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, inasmuch as I agree with the Hon Member for Asawase, it is not a misrepresentation that
    was done on the airwaves. It is a different interpretation. That was why yesterday, some of us were of the view that we should be very cautious in proceeding with this Bill. We might do things on the just, thinking that it is right and what we would suffer out there is probably worse than the intended good effect of the Bill.
    Mr Speaker, yesterday, I heard the Hon Minister for Employment and Labour Relations striving hard to explain —
    Mr Speaker 12:25 p.m.
    Please, be brief because we are at the Consideration Stage.
    Dr Prempeh 12:25 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, before our hands are even tied at the Consideration Stage by what is happening outside, we have to be careful and that is why I support what the Hon Member for Asawase said. The Minister for Employment and Labour Relations was on the airwaves yesterday defining and quoting President Olusegun Obasanjo on gifts.
    Mr Speaker, what has the press done wrong on this issue? We stood here and made an announcement, that gifts worth more than GH¢10,000 should be declared. So, if he goes and interprets it by saying that, we are saying that gifts worth less than GH¢10,000 should not be declared, I would not fault them. It is because we have done our briefings right.
    Even though I agree with the Hon Member that the media should cooperate with us and collaborate, we should note that there was a reason the founding fathers of America, in the first three years did not allow press coverage. They had their discussions behind closed doors. Because if one brings in the press before one finalises it, it can be misinterpreted. We are just at clause 6, and what is the bashing we are receiving?
    Mr Speaker, in our evolution, we should explain things better and have a better way of briefing the press of the House on how to convey, especially the Consideration Stage, our deliberations.
    Mr H. Iddrisu 12:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I do agree with the second leg of our Hon Majority Chief Whip's representation, while I generally share the view that the media needs to be circumspect, not just in reporting Parliament.
    Mr Speaker, I am sure one of these days, Leadership would have to take them through in appreciating the stages -- policy stage, when we do the policy debate and the deletions and when we get to the Consideration Stage. But I take it from my two Hon Colleagues who have spoken.
    If you look at clause 6, I was compelled to come in after I heard the Hon Majority Leader on this particular subject; so, I requested the interviewer that I needed to expatiate on it.
    We cannot fairly say that they were completely out of context. Indeed, Mr Speaker, clause 6 provided, as we may read in page five “acceptable gifts”. Mr Speaker, so who determines “acceptable gifts”? That was what was in contention and I tried with some small research referencing.
    As he said, the former President of Nigeria, His Excellency, Olusegun Obasanjo, when he was then doing works on “human rights and corruption” he said that we should make a distinction between a gift in the African-Ghanaian culture sense -- “Ghanaian” is my own word, that I have added; his was just “in the African context -- that for a gift to be
    acceptable, it must be a token; it must be given in the open and it should not be of any value and not intended to source a favourable decision. So, one accepts a gift in order that one determines the outcome of a process, one is compromising the integrity of the person and then the process and procedure.
    Mr Speaker, we have clause 6, which says “acceptable gifts”; we therefore, have a difficulty even in accepting the definition of gifts. In Ghana, who goes to the chief's palace with empty hands? I am not aware of it by my training and background with Dagbon culture. One goes with cola nut or a token of a sort to knock at the door. So, it is permissible but we need to be able to have an appropriate definition of what is considered “an acceptable gift” and what gift -- I do agree with you that not only clause 22 but clauses 23 and 24 also deal with the subject matter of gifts. But we need as a Parliament to guide this legislation.
    Mr Speaker, tomorrow's decisions will be based on it as laws and we cannot subject our own selves to ridicule. As our Hon Napo followed the debate, at a point
    -- 12:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker 12:35 p.m.
    Hon what?
    Mr H. Iddrisu 12:35 p.m.
    Hon Matthew Opoku Prempeh, my very good Friend and doctor, who has abandoned his syringes for Parliament -- [Laughter.] [Interruption.] -- It is withdrawn.
    Mr Speaker, so, I do think that like my Hon Colleagues have advised, let us cautiously and appropriately accept a working definition of “gift” and qualify it as to what is acceptable and what is unacceptable within the Ghanaian cultural setting vis-a-vis our attempt to improve our Sunshine Legislation of allowing for more transparency and more account- ability of public office holders. Indeed, yesterday, our attention was drawn to the
    Mr Speaker 12:35 p.m.
    Yes, last comment on this issue.
    Hon Adwoa Safo?
    Ms Sarah Adwoa Safo 12:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would want to add a few words to what earlier Hon Colleagues who spoke have emphasised.
    We are making a law, but what is the purpose for which we are enacting that law and what ambiguity are we seeking to clarify? Many a time, if laws are made and there is no clarity on certain sections of the Act, it gives room to multiple interpretations. It gives room to people speculating and that is exactly what happened in this House, which the media carried.
    Different opinions were sought and were argued on the floor of Parliament and clause 5, for instance, imposed a presumption of illegality when it comes to the receiving of gifts and for some of us, it was against the Constitution and the Evidence Act.
    The mere fact that somebody receives a gift, does not make it illegal but the clause itself was presuming that once the one receives it, it is an illegality and the burden of proof then shifts unto you who has received the gift to prove otherwise.
    Mr Speaker, in the Evidence Act, considering criminal cases, for instance, the burden of proof is always on the one who asserts, so to presume that once one has accepted it, there is something illegal
    about it and for that matter, one needs to take steps to regularise it. That is absolutely wrong. The Constitution guarantees every person -- Even when one has been charged or alleged to have committed the crime, the presumption in the Constitution is that one is presumed not to be guilty until evidence is led in that direction against the person.
    So, Mr Speaker, in conclusion, we are here as Members of Parliament forming the Legislature to make laws for a certain purpose. What purpose is this law for and what ambiguity are we seeking to clarify? It needs not be vague. It needs to be clear. It needs to be simple and any person who picks the law should be able to give a clear interpretation. But even in the middle of it, we have the media standing on another leg. One party standing on another leg and that is an indication to the whole House that there is something wrong and we need to look at it a second time.
    Thank you.
    Mr Speaker 12:35 p.m.
    Hon Members, let me find out from the Hon Vice Chairman of the Committee.
    I have seen from the law that there is a specific law that deals with public assets and declaration of assets. And I have also seen declaration of assets in this law. So, clearly, we are going to have two separate legislations which deal with asset declaration. Why?
    During your deliberations as a Committee, did you interrogate this aspect of the issue, so that all matters dealing with asset declaration will be found in the Public Officers Declaration of Assets Act to be taken up there and fine-tuned in that manner to limit this law to the short title of this particular Bill, that is the Conduct of Public Officers?
    Have you interrogated that issue seriously at your Committee level? I will want to know because it is part of the confusion.
    This morning, I did not listen to the radio but I received a call from somebody and the interpretation - Of course, that interpretation has also been informed from what he heard on air. We are making the law for the people of this country and we have a duty imposed on us to be very clear exactly what we would want to do.
    I will want to get that clarification from you, whether the Committee looked at that aspect of the declaration of assets in this law, so that it can be relocated in that specific legislation dealing with public officers asset declaration.
    Mr Magnus Kofi Amoatey 12:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we looked at the issues of declaration of assets but the focus of this Bill is on conduct of public officers. We actually compared the clauses in the Assets Declaration Form with what we have in the Bill here, to ensure that we are ad idem on both laws. But I yield to a senior Member of the Committee to contribute to it.
    Mr Haruna Iddrisu 12:35 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, you are apt and I think that your guidance will be useful going forward. I just referred to Act 550 -- Public Office Holders Declaration of Assets and Disqualification Act of 1998.
    Mr Speaker, let me specifically refer to the clause on section 4 -- Property subject to declaration. It gives some indications and when one sees even jewellery, there is a certain amount of money associated with it.
    Now, if one comes and then within this one, defines what is acceptable as 9,000, which maybe, far lower than what is permissible to be declared under the assets declaration, there would be some incongruity and I do think that we need to do a reconciliation because all of them including the Whistle Blowers Act are referred to as Sunshine Legislation. This
    is because they promote transparency, which should be the hallmark of the working of this Parliament. I think when Hon Muntaka took the floor, he raised a significant issue about receipt.
    Mr Speaker, it is not out of place for this Parliament to demand that mere receipt is not enough. What experts on good governance and corruption have advocated unsuccessfully is how to monitor the declared assets against the legitimate income and whether the acquisitions were commensurate with the earnings of the person and whether there were leakages that would invite some legal curiosity to know how that property was acquired lawfully or unlawfully, the value of it and other issues. So, I think that we should be guided by your --
    I am sure when we got to the Second Reading, all of us took this important point for granted. We did not appreciate that we needed to do a marriage of these two important legislations.
    I thank you.
    Mr Speaker 12:45 p.m.
    Hon Members, the question that I posed with respect to clause 58 of the Bill, the intention of the makers of this law is to repeal Public Office Holders (Declaration of Assets and Disqualification) Act, 1998. So, clearly, when this law is passed, it would repeal the Act that the Hon Minister has referred to. In fact, that is the question I posed to you because it would not be proper for us to have those two; it would not be proper for us to have declaration of assets in two separate laws.
    That was the question I posed to you but it is clear from clause 58 that the essence of this one is to repeal the existing assets declaration law.
    rose
    Mr Speaker 12:45 p.m.
    Yes, Hon Member for Wa West.
    Mr Speaker 12:45 p.m.
    Yes, Hon Member for Effutu, then Hon Arthur and then Hon Member for Ablekuma West.
    Mr Alexander Afenyo-Markin 12:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, with respect, on this proposal on clause 6 which generated debate yesterday, later on, this provision in article 286 (4) of the Constitution came up to fortify the amendment. However, upon a closer look, one is tempted to question at what point the presumption leading to the shift of the burden of proof arise.
    Is it when one fails to declare that that presumption of unlawful acquisition would arise or the unlawful acquisition presumption would arise in the course of the duty of the public officer?
    I think there is still ambiguity in there because if I read the proposed amendment,
    Mr Speaker, with your leave, it says 12:45 p.m.
    “6. Where a public officer, after declaration of assets, acquires an asset which is required by section…”
    Mr Speaker 12:45 p.m.
    Hon Member, I have not called the clause 6. So, it is just a general comment based on what the Hon Majority Chief Whip has indicated with regard to the media reportage on the proceedings of the House and that is why I have indulged you to listen to you first before we start taking the clauses one after the other.
    Mr Afenyo-Markin 12:45 p.m.
    So, Mr Speaker, what I am trying to say, in other words, is that we cannot really fault the media because even in this very House, we were not too clear and the positions were varied. So, if the media so took what the understanding -- [Interruption] -- Well, but Mr Speaker, we were arguing. Some Hon Members relied on the Constitution.
    I remember the Hon Minister for Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration even supported the idea that we could not arrive at such presumption of unlawful acquisition.
    Mr Speaker 12:45 p.m.
    Hon Member, for purposes of argument, if somebody receives a gift of ten thousand cedis and he goes to declare that money as his asset and if there is somebody who believes that that ten thousand cedis was not properly acquired, it raises criminality and other issues and can precipitate an investigation, which would cause the form to be made available to that person. So, it is important for us to paint these pictures very clear.
    One has declared ten thousand cedis and you believe that that ten thousand cedis that has been declared by that person is illegal or it was a bribe, then you
    the person who is alleging would trigger the necessary investigation. Then the ten thousand that is in the asset declaration would be made available for investigations to be made into it.
    Mr Afenyo-Markin 12:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I rest my case. You have just nailed it. This is exactly the point. We did not want the situation whereby when the law eventually comes into force, some misrepresentations would come in when it gets to implementation. That is why I raised the issue that when such presumption arises, what next? Is it that it is presumed that, yes, it was unlawfully acquired? So, the State would confiscate or there would be a certain process of trial or investigation. These things were missing.
    Mr Speaker 12:45 p.m.
    Let me hear from the Hon Member for Ablekuma West, then I will get to the Hon Minister for Environment, Science, Technology and Innovation. Is that your new Ministry?
    Mrs Ursula G. Ekuful 12:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I agree that you cannot quite fault the media for the manner in which the deliberations of the House yesterday were reported because it was a matter of the cup being either half full or half empty. However, certain issues that also came up in the course of the media reportage created the impression that Hon Members of Parliament sought to raise the value of gifts, so that they could accept gifts which were beyond even their monthly salaries.
    This is the Conduct of Public Officers Bill. It is not just for Hon Members of Parliament. If you look at the first schedule which indicates who the public officers that are affected by this Bill are, it ranges all the way from the President of the Republic to heads of department of the
    Bank of Ghana, officers in the Ghana Armed Forces on secondment, persons who are heads of Accounts, Internal Auditors, Procurement Officers in Finance and Procurement Departments of Government Ministries, Departments and Agencies. So, a whole range of public officers are affected or are potentialy to be affected by this Bill when passed.
    So, it behoves us to do a detailed work, which would not criminalise people for acts which are not strictly speaking criminal. So, I urge that if the Committee did not take the provisions of the Assets Declaration Law into consideration, then we may have to take this --
    Mr Speaker 12:45 p.m.
    The Vice Chairman says they did. That is the question I posed to him and he said they did.
    rose
    Mr Speaker 12:45 p.m.
    Please, Hon Member for Ablekuma West, you have the floor.
    Mrs Ekuful 12:45 p.m.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Speaker 12:45 p.m.
    Hon Member for Ablekuma West, you have the floor.
    Mrs Ekuful 12:45 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if they did and all these issues are arising, we may want to take another look at it because it appears the Bill does not take into consideration all the issues raised in there. Some of the matters coming up are issues which the Committee members themselves could not provide answers to when questions were raised on the floor yesterday.
    So, we may want to take another look at it and discuss all these issues properly before we continue with the Consi- deration Stage, so that we do not unwittingly criminalise public officers going about their public duties.
    Mr Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    Hon Member, if you want to make a submission, you should have it handy; you do not break the submission and then start looking for the information you would want to provide to the House.
    Mrs Ekuful 12:55 p.m.
    I am sorry, Mr Speaker. But I just clicked something on my phone and it went off.
    It talks about gifts from outside sources, invitations from inside sources, gifts between employees and even defines prohibited sources from which we cannot receive gifts.
    Mr Speaker, I would urge the Committee to take a look at the procedures in that office, which may be a useful guide for them in crafting this Conduct of Public Officers Bill. This is because they have practised this for a long time. They have ethic officers in every Ministry, Department and Agency (MDA), whom one would seek guidance from if one is not sure whether some conducts infringe the law.
    I am not sure if this Conduct of Public Officers Bill provides such a structure. So, we may be putting in place legislation
    which may be difficult to implement because we have not thought through the structure, which would actually help to implement the legislation.
    So, I would want to urge the Committee to take a look at the procedure provided and the legislation under which the Office of Government Ethics in the U.S.A conducts its work. It might be useful because no public servant is empowered to receive a gift beyond US$20 from one source and no more than US$50 within one year from one particular individual. We may look at that.
    The prohibited source includes a source which --
    Mr Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    Hon Member, wind up.
    Mrs Ekuful 12:55 p.m.
    The prohibited source includes a source which seeks some advantage from the officer and that is what makes the conduct or the receipt of a gift from that source criminal; it is not the amount or the mere fact that you have received a gift from a particular source.
    We would need to interrogate whether the individual or the organisation providing that gift is seeking some assistance, work or benefit from the public official. It is that mens rea which makes the receipt of a gift from that source criminal.
    So, I would urge that we take a look at it again, look at best practices from round the world, see if we could craft a law, which we can implement and serve the purpose of curbing corruption in the Public Service.
    Thank you.
    rose
    Mr Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    Hon Arthur, have I called you?
    Mr G. K. Arthur 12:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, you pointed at me.
    Mr Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    No! I called the Hon Minister. I will call you later; let me hear from the Hon Minister for Environment, Science, Technology and Innovation.
    Mr Mahama Ayariga 12:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, yesterday, some of us were here and observed the proceedings. I actually participated in the debate. There were two separate issues. One issue had to do with an amendment that was proposed by the Hon Chairman of the Committee. In that amendment, they sought the alter of clause 6 to read:
    “Where a public officer, after declaration of assets, acquires an asset which is required by section 5 to be declared, that asset shall be deemed to have been acquired unlawfully unless that asset:
    (a) have been acquired:
    (i) from the lawful income of that person;
    (ii) from a loan; or
    (iii) by any other lawful means; or
    (b) be;
    (i) an acceptable gift; or
    (ii) an inheritance.”
    Mr Speaker, there was an objection on the grounds that there was going to be a shift in the burden of proof from the prosecution to, presumably, the defendant, who would be the public officer; that violated the rights to privacy, acquire assets, property, et cetera. So, we said that in the case of public officers, shifting the presumption and placing the burden on the public officer to prove, is normal.
    Indeed, during the debate, reference was made to the Constitution, which itself has shifted the burden and deems it to be presumed unconstitutional to acquire assets outside what one has declared, which then shifts the burden on you to prove that you acquired the asset properly.
    So, on the basis of the fact that it was already in the Constitution, we dropped the debate about the shift, in terms of the burden of proof. Then there was a concern, however, that the way it was cast in the amended provision, it imposes some criminality on any assets that are acquired, which was not the intended objective. So, it was suggested that we drop it and leave what is in the Constitution and then put in the amended clause 6, which would solve the problem. Mr Speaker, but there is an attempt to revive the debate here today, and I thought that it was resolved yesterday.
    The second issue --
    Mr Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    Hon Members, I allowed the Hon Majority Chief Whip to make the submission because he said there were some reportage about the proceedings on the floor of the House yesterday, which was misleading. I thought that as a Leader in this House, I should give him the opportunity to clarify the air.
    Based on that, I decided to take comments from Hon Members and if there is any directive or guidance that I could offer the House, I might be in the position to do so. We are not looking at the clauses now, but it is just based on --
    Hon Member, so conclude.
    Mr Ayariga 12:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, thank you very much for your direction.
    So, we are not looking at the clauses now; we are just addressing the media reportage on the matter. I think that we could progress.
    Papa Owusu-Ankomah 12:55 p.m.
    Sorry, I was not here when the debate started; I thought we were revisiting clause 6.
    Mr Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    Very well.
    Hon Members, I think that I have got the sense of the House, even though I want more of you to speak. What I would do is to defer all the clauses up to clause 13 and move on to the Code of Conduct, which is clause 14, so that we could have enough time to look at it again. If there is any further work to be done, we would be able to do it before we get back to it. Apart from what has been deferred on the Order Paper, I am deferring further to clause 13.
    So, we would move to clause 14 -- Code of Conduct.
    rose
    Mr Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    Hon Member for Old Tafo?
    Mr A. A. Osei 12:55 p.m.
    Yesterday, the Hon Second Deputy Speaker directed that some work should be done on exactly what you have directed on. I would just want to know if any work was done. [Interruptions] -- That is the issue. He directed that some work -- that is what you have referred to -- So, we are assuming that no work was done. So, you are right to defer them.
    When directions are given, please, let us do them.
    Alhaji Muntaka 12:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, he is right. Yesterday, the Hon Second Deputy Speaker directed, but he would admit that yesterday, there were a lot of activities after adjournment. In fact, the Hon Minority Leader and my Hon Colleagues on both sides were so engaged. We had agreed to do that today, to invite those who would be interested, so that we would meet and discuss the issues further.
    Mr Speaker, so, his concern would be taken and we would definitely meet. As the Hon Rt Hon Speaker said, we would even add that to clause 13, so that the consultations would be broader, and we would be able to put them together.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Speaker 12:55 p.m.
    Hon Members, clause 14.
    Clause 14 -- Provision of Code of Conduct.
    Mr Magnus Kofi Amoatey 12:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 14, delete.
    Mr Speaker, the reason is that we think we should defer to various organisations to develop codes of conduct for their offices, rather than centralising it and placing it in the hands of the Commission on Human Rights and Administrative Justice (CHRAJ).
    Mr Dominic B. A. Nitiwul 12:55 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if they decide that we should delete this provision, what is the overall use of this Bill? If we want to give them the power to add certain things, not to subtract, then we could do that. But I believe that CHRAJ should have the power to set the overall framework and that is exactly what we have decided to do, by saying that we should be consistent with the provisions of this Act.
    We should determine this, so that if we want them to do additions, then they could do so. But if they delete it entirely, I think it would be problematic. If they want to delete certain portions that they are not comfortable with, under clause 14, maybe, they should advise us on that, then we could look at it. But to delete the entire clause -- no, I do not think it is good.
  • [MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER IN THE CHAIR.]
    • Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
    Yes, Hon Member for Manhyia South.
    Dr Matthew O. Prempeh 1:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the attempt to delete clause 14 is very dangerous. It would give us even more bad news than we have already acquired.
    Mr Speaker, the whole Bill is the Conduct of Public Officers Bill. Nowhere in the memorandum did we say that we are going to repeal all those public Acts, declarations and so on. Actually, the memorandum talked about domestication of the United Nations (UN) Charters and the African Union (AU) Charters. We find out that we have put in the review section that we are going to review Charters; we do not know. This is because, there are certain Acts that are very relevant and should be included.
    Not only that Mr Speaker, now the Committee is telling us that the Commission shall provide the Code of Conduct for Public Officers. He is saying that now they are deleting it. This whole Bill is about conduct and if anything, we have to delete all the other sections to deal with declaration and emphasise a short and simple Bill that has to regulate

    the conduct of public officers like the Nolan's Commission Report.

    Mr Speaker, the Committee has done some serious work and unfortunately, it would be putting Parliament and public officers in Ghana into serious jeopardy by what they are trying to do. Mr Speaker, please -
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
    Very well. Your point is well made.
    Hon Member for Wa West, can we hear you?
    Mr Joseph Y. Chireh 1:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think the reasons given by the Chair- person are not correct at all. First of all, if we are asking the Commission on Human Rights and Administrative Justice (CHRAJ) to develop the code of conduct which already is in existence and then they are saying we should ask other people and we are saying that, no, they should not develop it, what should one ask individual institutions to develop what?
    That code of conduct must be uniform and guiding all public office holders. Even if they had said, let us amend it by saying that institutions should bring their code of conduct, which would be approved by CHRAJ, it is better. But one cannot delete it. It is so important that one cannot delete such a thing.
    In fact, the code of conduct already exists and it is supposed to be an amplification of what is in the Constitution and detailing out a few things. So, I do not see how one can be making this law and deleting the main reason for its passage and not even substituting it with something to do with approval.
    This is because, everything that we do here, they say the CHRAJ should investigate. So, why should they not be the ones developing the code of conduct for all of us?
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
    Very well.
    Yes, Hon for Old Tafo and then Hon Member for Wa West.
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, even though I would want to agree with the Hon Minister, just referring to the Constitution is not enough in terms of the functions of the CHRAJ. It seems we could do it by an Act of Parliament. So, he should go to the Act and see what the true functions are. I do not agree with the Vice Chairperson on this at all.
    Mr Speaker, we know that since the year 2000 and beyond, CHRAJ has had a code of conduct. We should ask them to bring it here if we want to make it an Act and adopt it. But this deletion is a complete waste of time. Then what is the work we are doing? We should, through the Hon Attorney-General and Minister for Justice, take their code of conduct and let the Hon Attorney- General and Minister for Justice bring it here as a Bill, so that we could pass it.
    But this deletion, as he said, one needs uniform standards. Parliament may have its own given, who we are, the Executive may have their own. There would be confusion. So, please, stand this amendment down.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
    Very well.
    Mr Chireh 1:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, my Friend the Hon Minister for Environment, Science, Technology and Innovation should come again because there is nothing constitutional about this. Currently, we are considering the fact that if one passes this law, one is asking the Commission to do certain things there. Is that right?
    Everything that the Constitution did not bar the Commission from performing, we could add it to them. Indeed, when one looks at the Right to Information Bill, some people were suggesting that we should have an additional Commissioner to follow up on those.
    So, at any time, this Parliament could decide that this is what would be better performed by this institution -- talking about Regulations. In article 230, it has nothing to do with the power to bring the code of conduct which we all understand and would see. As I am saying, it has already been provided for in the Chapter 24 of this Constitution. In any case, one exists currently, and for us to say that because we are asking them to do it, it would be unconstitutional.
    In fact, what must be unconstitutional is when something is specifically provided for in the constitution and you cannot do it and you want to do it. Otherwise, any other thing that is not inconsistent with the Constitution, you can always add to anybody. So this constitution law that he is proferring, I beg to defer from him.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
    Hon Members, I would like to hear from the Vice Chairman of the Committee. How do you respond to these issues raised by the Hon Members?
    Mr Amoatey 1:05 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would want to go by the constitutional provision that the Hon Minister read but I believe that there is some wisdom in Hon Osei Akoto's submission, that Parliament, by legislation, may give the Commission some power to do certain things and it is through a legislation of this nature.
    rose
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:05 p.m.
    Are you up on a point of order?
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:05 p.m.
    Yes, notwithstanding what I said, I do not see any Dr Osei Akoto
    here. So, I do not know who he is talking about. I am not Dr Osei Akoto.
    Mr Amoatey 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am sorry. Dr Akoto Osei.
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:15 p.m.
    Thank you very much.
    Mr Amoatey 1:15 p.m.
    Dr Akoto Osei, my good Friend. Mr Speaker, I would pray that we stand clause 14 down as part of the clauses that we would take a second look at.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
    It looks like clause 15 would also have to be stood down.
    Mr Amoatey 1:15 p.m.
    So, it should be together with clause 16.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
    So, Hon Members, why do we not --
    Yes?
    Ms Safo 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, that is exactly what my proposal was. I think that all the relevant documentation that has been enumerated on this floor, the Commission on Human Rights and Administrative Justice (CHRAJ)'s Code of Conduct that was drafted during Ms Bossman's period, the Asset Declaration Act and all relevant information that by the help of Hon Members and their arguments are cropping up --
    I am proposing, respectfully, that the Committee goes back and looks at it again and comes back with something which would be more convincing to the House.
    Other than that, we would keep stepping every clause down and I think that we have a lot to compare when it comes to notes, with respect to all these relevant documents. So, we would want
    Mr Ayariga 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the simple point that I was making is that the Constitution has a chapter on Code of Conduct of Public Officers. In that Chapter, there is no recommendation; there is no provision that gives the power to the Commission on Human Rights and Administrative Justice to spell out the Code in detail. It is clear.
    There is also no provision that says that they should not do it. But the principle that judicial or quasi-judicial bodies should stick to judicial or quasi- judicial functions must be remembered. So, when he says that this Parliament can confer on any institution whatever powers that we think it should have, we need to remember the nature of the different institutions.
    The Judiciary, for instance, can we give them legislative powers because we are a Parliament? In the same way, can we give a quasi-judicial body legislative powers because we are a Parliament?
    So, those are the issues that I am adverting our minds to, that it is best suited to Parliament to be the determinant of the details of the Code and not a quasi -judicial body. So, in my opinion, the determination of the details of the Code does not rest in the bosom of the Commission on Human Rights and Administrative Justice. I think that there is a tacit admission of this in the argument that, they should bring it to this House for us to approve.
    Then, why do we not exercise our responsibility by spelling out the details of the Code, if it is that easy to determine the details of the Code?

    No! Why? In this House, all the laws that we have passed on finance, agriculture, health and every other matter, where have we sought the capacity to be able to pass those legislations? The entire system is available to us as a House to determine our agenda. So, my argument is that this provision --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
    Very well. Thank you very much.
    But Hon Members, I do not want us to drag this issue. What I am going to do is to direct, as requested for by the Vice Chairman of the Committee, that we defer further consideration of the whole Bill, give them the opportunity to do some winnowing and then come back within a certain stipulated time.
    Hon Chairman of the Committee, if we give you up to Tuesday, next week, would you have done sufficient work; so, that we can make some progress.
    Mr Amoatey 1:15 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
    Very well.
    Then I direct that we defer further consideration of this Bill until next week Tuesday, by which time the Committee would have had enough time to --
    Yes, Hon Majority Chief Whip?
    Alhaji Muntaka 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, with the greatest of respect to your suggestion to the Chair, is it not possible for us to stand down clauses 14, 15 and 16, so that we carry on because some of the provisions are not controversial. So, that we would be able to make progress. This is because this Bill has kept so long with the Committee and now that it is before the House, I thought that we would make efforts to deal with those that are not
    controversial while we try to go and winnow on the controversial ones.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
    Hon Member, the reason I made that proposal is the fact that they appear to be intertwined. So, selecting those clauses might create problems for us. So, let us give them the opportunity to look at it holistically and then get back to us on Tuesday, next week.
    rose
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
    Yes?
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:15 p.m.
    Following from what the Hon Majority Chief Whip said, that the Leadership was going to get together, they are so busy and that is why -- [Interruption] -- That is what he said yesterday. Let me conclude.
    Mr Speaker, you have given them up to Tuesday, and I am not sure they are available to do what you have directed them to do. So, Tuesday might not be sufficient, given your directive. Yesterday, they were not there; today, they are not there; and tomorrow is Friday. I do not think that they are capable of coming back on Tuesday.
    Alhaji Muntaka 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, with the greatest of respect to my Hon Colleague from Old Tafo, Leadership is not made up of just the two Leaders. He is the Hon Ranking Member and he is interested. I am saying that, yesterday, we were all very busy --
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I was not busy. He is referring to himself, so he should correct himself.
    Alhaji Muntaka 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, give us up to Tuesday and if we are not able to
    make adequate progress, we would notify the Speakership. But let us give ourselves up to Tuesday. We would see to it that we create enabling environment for us to see what we can do, so that by Tuesday, if we have made enough progress, we would come back to the floor; and if not, we would notify the Speakership.
    Mr Nitiwul 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I was just going to contribute along the same tangent that we should leave it with the available Leadership and the leadership of the Committee to look at it. This is because it is very clear that the Speaker and the Leaders may not be around. So, if we want to say that we should wait for, especially, the two Leaders, then Tuesday would not be a good date.
    But the available Leadership and the Committee should look at it and by Tuesday, if we are able to make progress, then we can report to you. So, we can move forward.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
    There appears to be some urgency about this particular Bill and I think that we need to treat it in such a way that despite the urgency, we would not make mistakes in the course of crafting the Bill.
    Although, I have done this reluctantly by directing that we have up to Tuesday, I would urge the Committee to make sure that by Tuesday, they are ready with whatever reforms they have implemented as far as this Bill is concerned. Otherwise, the impression would be created as if Parliament does not want to push this Bill to its ultimate conclusion and that would not be a good picture to portray about Parliament.
    So, please, even if you do not have the Leadership, as defined by what we have here, the Committee should be able to meet and come up with something. I would implore all Hon Members that you can attend the Committee meetings even if you
    Alhaji Mohammed-Mubarak Muntaka 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, there are some advertised Committee meetings and looking at where we have reached, I beg to move, that this House stands adjourned --
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:15 p.m.
    Very well. Before then I would want to direct that this brings us to the end of Consideration Stage for today.
    Yes, Hon Majority Chief Whip?
    Alhaji Muntaka 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would want to take this opportunity to remind Hon Members about the joint Caucus meeting immediately after this, right in the Chamber.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that this House stands adjourned till tomorrow at ten o'clock in the forenoon.
    Mr Ignatius B. Awuah 1:15 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.
    Question put and Motion agreed to.
    ADJOURNMENT 1:15 p.m.
  • The House was accordingly adjourned at 1.26 p.m. till Friday, 15th May, 2015 at 10.00 a.m.