Debates of 3 Jun 2015

MR SPEAKER
PRAYERS 11:20 a.m.
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 11:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Hon Members, correction of the Votes and Proceedings of Tuesday, 2nd June, 2015.
Any corrections?
  • [No correction was made to the Votes and Proceedings of Tuesday, 2nd June, 2015.]
    • Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Hon Members, we have the Official Report of Thursday, 28th May, 2015 for correction.
    rose
    Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Yes, Hon Member?
    Mr Fritz F. Baffour 11:20 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, column 586, third paragraph, line eight; there is a correction to be made there. I said “in these our cynical times” instead of “in this our cynical times”.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Any other correction? [Pause.]
    Hon Members, the Official Report of Thursday, 28th May, 2015, as corrected be adopted as the true record of proceedings.
    Question time:. Is the Hon Minister for Trade and Industry here?
    Majority Chief Whip (Alhaji Mohammed-Mubarak Muntaka) 11:20 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister for Trade and Industry is on a national assignment outside the country but the Hon Deputy

    Minister is here to answer the Question with your indulgence and that of the House.

    Deputy Minority Whip (Mr Ignatius B. Awuah): Mr Speaker, I want to believe that, last Friday, we established a norm that when the substantive Ministers are not here, the Hon Deputies can stand in for them.

    So, Mr Speaker, when we get to the appropriate place, I will also remind you of a directive you gave on Friday, asking the Hon Minister of Water Resources, Works and Housing to allow the Hon Deputy Minister to come and answer a Question on his behalf yesterday.

    Unfortunately, that did not happen; so maybe, at the appropriate time, I would draw your attention to that.
    Alhaji Muntaka 11:20 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, with regard to yesterday, the Hon Members who were going to ask the Questions -- and my Hon Colleague knows because it is Hon Members on the Minority side of the House who claimed they are in their constituencies and it was going to be difficult for them to be here. We spoke to them; I had to speak to them to be sure because Hon Sampson Ahi was to be on standby to come and answer the Question and that is what happened.
    The Clerk-at-the-Table is my witness, that we had to do that and the Hon Members on the Minority side of the House said that they preferred that it be shifted --
    Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Hon Members, I have been briefed why the Questions were not put on the Order Paper but the proper thing to do was for those Hon Members in charge of Government Business to make the statement on the floor of the House so that it is known to the House, especially, in view of the directive that I had given. So, in future let us proceed that way.
    Alhaji Muntaka 11:20 a.m.
    Thank you very much, Mr Speaker; we take note.
    Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Question number 363, Hon Member for Achiase.
    Dr Matthew O. Prempeh 11:20 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, there are a lot of national assignments, but the Hon Leader did not tell us which national assignment. The Hon Minister for Education is here so let us give her priority. She has found space and time to come so let the Hon Deputy Minister for -- [Interruption.]
    Mr Speaker, we should send a signal to Hon Ministers that this House is very important--
    Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Hon Member for Manhyia South, you have a point there but I expected the front bench of the Majority side of the House to make an application to vary the Order of Business to take the Hon Minister for Education first. Until that is done, we have to follow the Order of Business as it appears on the Order Paper.
    Alhaji Muntaka 11:20 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, because we have already applied to seek permission for the Hon Deputy Minister to do that, we did not want to have many applications.We want to stick to the Order of Business.
    Mr Speaker 11:20 a.m.
    Hon Members, we have only two Questions. So, let us take it, so that we can take the Hon Minister for Education.
    Question number 363; Hon Member for Achiase, you have the floor.
    ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 11:20 a.m.
    MINISTRY OF TRADE AND 11:20 a.m.
    INDUSTRY 11:20 a.m.
    Mr Isaac Osei 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, in the supplement, the Answer given by the Hon Deputy Minister is not what is here. So, the questioner cannot ask follow up questions on the bases of the Answer he has given.
    This is why we need the Hon Ministers here. The Hon Minister himself has given a response and now the Hon Deputy Minister comes and talks about something else. What are we doing here? This is not the Answer to the Question which is listed here. Confusion, why?
    Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Hon Deputy Minister, I was going to stop you.That was because when you were speaking, they were on their feet. I observed that but I wanted you to finish, then I would give them the chance.
    The Answer here is different from what you have just read. Where is the confusion coming from?
    Mr Ricketts-Hagan 11:30 a.m.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker. I was just adding flavour to the Answer -- [Interruption.]
    Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Please, Order!Yes?
    Mr Ricketts-Hagan 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, as I said, I was adding flavour and additional information to the Answer that has been given here.
    Apologies.
    Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Hon Member for Subin, you raised the issue first.
    Mr Isaac Osei 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister must comply with what we normally do here. He cannot pretend to be adding flavour to Answers when, in fact, the Hon Deputy Minister has not even used the Answer. Now, the confusion
    is basaa.What is all these? He should answer the Question, please.
    Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Hon Deputy Minister, go back and answer that particular Question tomorrow. We would take you tomorrow because the normal practice -- Please, what you do is that, if you want to vary the Answer, the first thing is to inform the House, and to be fair to the person in whose name the Question stands, you make a copy of the Answer available to him and based on that, he can ask supplementary questions.
    You did not inform the House, you have provided an Answer which is totally different from what is in the official record of Parliament and which has been printed on the Order Paper.
    Now, to be very fair to this House; and the Hon Member, how can he ask a supplementary question with your ‘flavour', if I should use your word? So, I have difficulty with that practice.
    Hon Deputy Majority Chief Whip?
    Alhaji Muntaka 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, with the greatest respect, we would wish that the Hon Deputy Minister is allowed to answer the Question with the Answer provided, so that if he wants to add some text, he should do the right thing by applying to the House to add the few texts. This is because the bulk of the Answer is similar to what is on the Order Paper.
    So, he either sticks to what is on the Order Paper so that during the supplemen-tary --
    Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Hon Majority Chief Whip, you are part of the team in charge of Government Business, when the Hon Minister came there, sitting by you, did you do your homework?
    Alhaji Muntaka 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, with the greatest respect, my Hon Colleague is here; he is also a Member of Parliament. The moment he entered, we had to take him through -- Especially, as an Hon Deputy Minister and as he has been told that the Answer is on the Order Paper, he had to first check whether the Answer he had was any different from the one on the Order Paper.
    He was very much aware. So, for us to have taken him through-- my Hon Colleague and I took him through that. But Mr Speaker, we would be grateful if he is allowed to answer the Question again using what is on the Order Paper.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Let me listen to you, Hon Member.
    Mr Alexander Kwamina Afenyo- Markin 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, since the Hon Deputy Minister has taken a cue from you, I believe that the proper thing for him is to withdraw the Answer he has just given. This is because, it is the position of the House that what he has given is at variance with what we have in our official records.
    So, my humble application is for you to direct that this be expunged from the records of this House so that he does the proper thing, with the greatest respect, Mr Speaker.
    Alhaji Muntaka 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I perfectly agree with him. For him to --
    Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Hon Majority Chief Whip?
    Alhaji Muntaka 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, for once, I want to agree with my Hon Colleague, Hon Afenyo-Markin that we expunge
    whatever he has read, so that he reads the Answer as it is on the Order Paper. If he wants to have any variation, he knows what to do.
    As an Hon Member of Parliament, he needs to apply to Mr Speaker, and if that is permitted, then he can vary it. So, Mr Speaker, we want you to --
    Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Let me take the last comment from the Hon Deputy Minority Leader?
    Mr Dominic Bingab Aduna Nitiwul 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I do not know why the Hon Majority Chief Whip is still talking. Mr Speaker has simplified the issue by drawing the attention of the Hon Deputy Minister that, ordinarily, he could have gone with this Answer and sought the attention of the Hon Member asking the Question to tell him he would vary his Answer. That would have been it.
    He would just read this and then say,”look, I will vary part of the Answer” and then go ahead. That is what Mr Speaker has told him. Unfortunately, he did not do that and Mr Speaker has also ruled that, well, he can come back tomorrow and do the right thing.
    That is what Mr Speaker said, unless you are challenging Mr Speaker. Otherwise, what Mr Speaker originally told him would have been the easiest thing. He reads this Answer and if he thinks that there are other issues that he wants to add or other information that he wants to add to it, he should seek Mr Speaker's attention, and let him know that, well, this is what he wants to add and he would do so and we would move on. Unfortunately, he did not do that.
    He just started reading a different Answer, which is alien to Parliament. That is why they are saying that, what he read is alien to Parliament, we do not know anything about it and so, he should withdraw it and come back tomorrow.
    Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Hon Members, I have directed but I have listened to the Hon Majority Chief Whip and then the Hon Member for Effutu who said that we should expunge what he has read from the records and then go by the Answer printed.
    But next time, I am not going to allow that to happen. This is a very serious House. If an Hon Minister or Hon Deputy Minister is appearing before this House to answer Questions, they should do their home work well. I am sorry to say this.
    Nobody needs any flavour from you; if you want flavour, add the flavour before it gets here.
    Yes, Hon Majority Chief Whip?
    Alhaji Muntaka 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, we are really very grateful for this opportunity for him to re-do it.
    Thank you very much.
    Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Would you not thank the Hon Members for Subin and Effutu?
    Alhaji Muntaka 11:30 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, by thanking you, I believe that it goes to all those who made effort to --
    Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Very well.
    Alhaji Muntaka 11:30 a.m.
    So, we equally thank all of you.
    Mr Speaker 11:30 a.m.
    Hon former Leader? Let me hear from the former Leader?
    Dr Benjamin B. Kunbuor 11:40 a.m.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker.
    This issue rather looks simple but it could have future consequences and that is why I would want us to ground it properly in relation to our Standing Orders, except the Answer that has been exhibited here is so fundamentally different from the actual Answer, then you could take a decision on that.
    The Hon Deputy Minister could have read this Answer as it stands and he could have added the flavour that Mr Speaker has referred to, it could be put in supplementary answers. He could find a way in the supplementary answers that follow to introduce that one, and it would have been neater. But if he gives the impression that the white sheet, which they say is an alien document to this House, is really the proper document, then we have a technical problem. It means he is misleading the House by what has been exhibited here.
    Mr Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    Except that that same Answer which is here is also from the Ministry. What is printed is also from the Ministry.
    Dr Kunbuor 11:40 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I say so because we have one exhibited on the Order Paper which shows the Order of the Business and what we should anticipate.
    Mr Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    If you want me to go by your suggestion, then I have to ask him which of the Answers he wants to use. But there are consequences for the response that he would give. If he says it is the one on the white sheet, then it means that he has to go back, and he cannot take it because this is not an Urgent Question.
    Hon Members must have Answers, but if it is an Urgent Question, then the Minister could come without an Answer but once it is not an Urgent Question, any answer that is given must be known to the Hon Members of the House, especially, the person in whose name the Question stands.
    So, let us expunge it because you have raised a very important point. If this one is what the Ministry is adopting as their proper Answer, based on the issue he has raised, then it means that we cannot proceed with the Question today.
    Dr Kunbuor 11:40 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I just wanted us to lay a precedent because this seems to be very novel so that when we lay down the precedent, then we all follow it subsequently.
    Mr Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    Hon Members, we cannot reinvent the wheel. An Hon Minister comes to answer a Question because they have provided an Answer. When events have overtaken the Answer, the rules allow him to inform the House that even though he has given “A”, “B”, “C” as answer, “D” and “E” have cropped up and he wants to inform the House that he is therefore varying his Answer by adding “D” and “E”.
    We have done it on the floor of this House on several occasions by amending it. But you must inform the House so that the House would know that yes, he is varying his Answer.
    However, when a Minister gets up to answer a Question without informing the House and reads something totally different from what has been printed from the same Ministry on the Order Paper, it is a different Answer.
    How do you do a follow-up with supplementary questions -- to be fair to the Hon Member in whose name the Question stands? So, because he did not
    inform the House that he was varying his Answer, there were about three or four people on their feet but I thought that he should finish and then they could raise their questions -- I tried to protect him so that he could finish responding before I call them.
    When he was reading the Answer, about four people from the Minority side were on their feet. You were the fifth?
    Mr Kwame Asafu-Adjei 11:40 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am still on my feet. [Laughter.]
    Mr Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    Hon Members, let us go with the suggestion coming from the Hon Member for Effutu. He should go by his -- Yes, Hon Deputy Minority Leader?
    Mr Nitiwul 11:40 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, we would agree for him to read the Answer on the Order Paper. However, let it be put on record that, we cannot accept this any longer because we cannot have an Answer transmitted from the Ministry to Parliament and then another Answer prepared by the same Ministry in front of us. We would agree, but we cannot have this any longer because it does not show seriousness.
    Mr Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    I agree with you. You have been on your feet for a very long time, so, let me hear from you, the last on this matter.
    Mr Ken O. Agyapong 11:40 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would rather go by your earlier ruling because when you look at the Question again, it says and I beg to quote:
    “to ask the Minister for Trade and Industry steps being taken to address the problem of marketing citrus fruits in the country.”
    The Answer is totally different, so even if he reads this, it would not answer the Question. Therefore, my Hon Colleague who asked this Question cannot even ask
    Mr Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    That is the reason we allow for supplementary questions so that if the Hon Member or Hon Members are not satisfied, they can pursue the Hon Minister with supplementary questions.
    Based on the discussion, my decision is that, we expunge the first response from the records. What is in the official custody of the House is the Answer printed on the Order Paper. He comes to read that and after that, supplementary questions would follow.
    Mr Isaac Osei 11:40 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would not have been on my feet but for the fact that the Hon Minister talked about ‘flavour'. If one is flavouring anything, whether it is with ‘maggi cube' or salt, the flavour should not be more than the whole and the Answer he gave was much longer than what is written here. It could not have been just a simple flavour. So, please, let him keep to what is here -- over salted --
    Mr Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    Hon Deputy Minister, so you are starting everything afresh.
    Hon Member for Achiase ask your Question and I would call on the Hon Deputy Minister to respond.
    Citrus Fruits (Marketing)
    Q. 363. Mr Robert Kwasi Amoah asked the Minister for Trade and Industry steps being taken to address the problem of marketing of citrus fruits in the country.
    Deputy Minister for Trade and Industry (Mr George K. Ricketts-Hagan on behalf of the Minister for Trade and Industry): Mr Speaker, there is a fruit fly issue with regard to citrus and we have
    engaged the Ghana Atomic Energy Commission and the International (IAEA in Vienna to acquire IRRIDATION technology to kill the fruit flies and to extend the shelf life of citrus products so that they can be processed into juices and other products for the local and foreign markets.
    Meanwhile, there is a Ghanaian company that has taken over an existing fruit processing plant and selling the SKIN or PEELS only of citrus products to the European market for perfume, beauty and pharmaceutical products.
    Mr Robert K. Amoah 11:40 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, per the Answer given by the Hon Deputy Minister, he is inferring that the only problem is the fruit fly issue. Despite that, fruits are being harvested in the country at the moment. So, he wants to tell us that they are taking steps and not until they have got rid of the ‘fruit fly' issue, there are no other steps that they could take to address the issue?
    My question then is, could the Hon Deputy Minister tell the House how soon this irridation technology would become a reality?
    Mr Ricketts-Hagan 11:40 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, as I said, at the moment, we have engaged various agencies who are helping to eradicate this disease and by the end of the year, when we have seen significant improvement in the quality of the fruit, we would be engaging local processors in processing this into juice so that we would be able to access the European market.
    Mr Robert K. Amoah 11:40 a.m.
    The Answer is not appropriate to my Question. [Interruptions.]
    Mr Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    Hon Member, your second supplementary question.
    Mr R. K. Amoah 11:40 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Deputy Minister said that they have engaged Ghana Atomic Energy and IAEA, a company in Vienna to acquire
    Mr Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    Hon Member, you have the floor.
    Mr R. K. Amoah 11:40 a.m.
    The Question is not answered. [Interruptions.]
    Mr Speaker 11:40 a.m.
    Order! Order! Let us listen to the Hon Member for Achiase. -- [Interruption.]
    Mr R. K. Amoah 11:40 a.m.
    I cannot go on to ask any supplementary questions.
    Mr Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    Hon Members, I have a duty to protect the Hon Member on his feet and so, if you use ten hours in shouting, I would use twenty hours to protect him. He has the floor and the rules of the House are on his side and I am the one presiding.
    Hon Member, ask your second supplementary question.
    Mr R. K. Amoah 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Answer I expected was not the answer he gave. So, I have not prepared for any supplementary question.
    Mr Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    Hon Member for Achiase, please, let us get the rules right. The essence of a supplementary question is to pursue the Hon Minister. You can put the comments you have made in a question form to achieve the same purpose. So, ask the supplementary question. -- [Interruptions.]
    Mr R. K. Amoah 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Deputy Minister has not provided an

    Answer to my Question. When would he come back to provide the right answer?
    Mr Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    Let me hear from the Hon Deputy Minority Leader.
    Mr Nitiwul 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Member made an application to you. What he said was that, he thought the question he asked was about the marketing of citrus fruits but the Hon Deputy Minister talked about ‘fruit fly' issue.That is why the Hon Member is making the application to you.
    These are two different issues.What are the steps being taken in the marketing of citrus fruits, the Hon Deputy Minister did not address that but he talked about fruit fly issues. So, the Hon Member says he has difficulties asking a supplementary question.
    Mr Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    There is no difficulty. He can still ask his supplementary question and achieve the same purpose.
    Mr Nitiwul 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, he will but he is making the application to you. If you say that --
    Mr Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    Under what Order is he making the application to me?
    Hon Deputy Minority Leader, you are an experienced Member in this House and under what Order is he making the application to me?
    Mr Nitiwul 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, when somebody rises to elucidate a point or to ask for your opinion and it is right one can always do that. The Hon Member has pointed out to you that the Answer the Hon Deputy Minister provided is poles apart from what he has expected. But if you think he should ask a supplementary question, he would go ahead but he has made that application to you so that you would know.
    Mr Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    I have ruled that he should ask the supplementary question and in his supplementary question, he can raise issues even with the Answer that has been provided. The rules allow it and that is his supplementary.
    Yes, Hon Minister for Defence.
    Dr Kunbuor 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I wanted to crave your indulgence to find out if the Hon Member has exhausted his supplementary questions because I intend to ask a supplementary question.
    Mr Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    He has not exhausted them.
    Hon Member for Achiase, your second supplementary question.
    Mr R. K. Amoah 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I talked about marketing and the Hon Deputy Minister talked about ‘fruit fly'.That is why I said not until this fruit fly issue has been settled -- My point is how soon can this fruit fly issue be settled?
    Mr Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    Hon Member for Achiase, what is your question? [Interruptions.]
    Mr R. K. Amoah 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, my question is to ask the Hon Deputy Minister for Trade and Industry, steps being taken to address the problem of marketing of citrus fruits in the country. This is a simple question. [Interruptions.]
    Mr Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    Hon Members, let us go back to the rules of the House. The rules of the House are that, an Hon Member asks a Question, the Hon Minister responds to the Question for the first time as printed in the Order Paper. The rules allow the Hon Member to ask three additional supplementary questions to pursue the Hon Minister based on the Answer provided. Where an Hon Member is satisfied with the Answer, there might
    not be any need to pursue the Hon Minister with a supplementary question.
    The response to the Question the Hon Deputy Minister gives can itself be an issue in the supplementary question. That is the rule; that is the practice. If at the end, the Hon Member is not satisfied, there are other tools available at the disposal of the Hon Member. I am clear in my mind that there is a way an Hon Member can ask his question and still get what he wants to achieve.
    Hon Member, I would give you the last chance, I am trying to protect you.
    Mr R. K. Amoah 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, can the Hon Minister inform the House how soon this Irridation technology will become a reality?This is because the rate at which citrus farmers are cutting down whole plantations for other crops is pathetic. It is not good for the country and we need to act fast.
    Mr Ricketts-Hagan 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, as I said earlier, we would be on top of the problem by the end of the year. The disease has been a constraint on marketing and that is why I raised the issue of the disease. When we are on top of it, the idea is to be able to market the citrus fruit to agro processing companies so that they would be able to produce the juice for local and international markets.
    Mr Speaker 11:50 a.m.
    Hon Minister for Defence and then Hon Member for Old Tafo.
    Dr Kunbuor 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would want to ask the Hon Deputy Minister whether or not there are any problems of marketing citrus fruits in the country and if so, what steps have been taken to address them?
    Mr Ricketts-Hagan 11:50 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, as I said earlier, the major constraints on marketing has been the disease, so, once
    we are on top of that disease which has affected productivity, we would be able to get the fruits and market them to agro processing companies.
    The Ministry intends to add value to the raw material, which is the citrus, along the value chain, and be able to process the juice in Ghana for the local and international market.
    Dr A. A. Osei noon
    Mr Speaker, in the Hon Deputy Minister 's Answer to the Question, he said and with your permission I beg to quote:
    “….we have engaged the Ghana Atomic Energy Commission and the IAEA in Vienna to acquire IRRIDATION technology to kill the fruit flies”
    Mr Speaker, is the Hon Deputy Minister telling the House that the engagement of the Ghana Atomic Energy Commission and IAEA in acquiring IRRIDATION technology is a marketing strategy?
    Mr Ricketts-Hagan noon
    Mr Speaker, that is to help solve the problem of marketing. This is because, basically, without the fruits, there is nothing to market. This has been a serious constraint in marketing and once we are over that problem, we will be able to have the fruits for processing as I said earlier.
    Mr I. Osei noon
    Mr Speaker, as we all know, marketing involves: the time of harvest, storage, transportation, packaging and everything. Could the Hon Deputy Minister tell us, with these things that I have mentioned, what plans the Ministry has, to aid citrus producers to solve the problems at the various stages that I have talked about.
    Mr Ricketts-Hagan noon
    Mr Speaker, the issues that my Hon Colleague has just raised are not really the problems facing the citrus industry at the moment. The major problem with the citrus industry is to do with the disease, and that is what we are trying to basically be on top of.
    Mr Emmanuel K. Bedzrah noon
    Mr Speaker, I would like to ask the Hon Deputy Minister what exactly the ‘fruit' fly disease is that prevents marketing of fruits — he should just educate us.
    Mr Ricketts-Hagan noon
    Mr Speaker, because of the disease, the product is not really acceptable in the European market. The idea is to improve the fruit so that we would be able to produce the juice for the international market. The product is not acceptable in the international market because of the ‘fruit' fly disease.
    Ms Shirley A. Botchwey noon
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Deputy Minister is doing all he can -- He is confusing the House this morning.
    Mr Speaker, marketing starts from when the product is produced -- every activity in-between when the product is produced till when it lands on the table of the consumer.
    Mr Speaker, making sure that the fruits are edible and in good condition, is not a marketing problem. The Hon Member is asking about marketing problem.
    Mr Speaker noon
    Hon Member, your question.
    Ms Botchwey noon
    Mr Speaker, can the Hon Deputy Minister tell us the marketing problems his Ministry is facing when it comes to citrus fruits?
    Mr Ricketts-Hagan noon
    Mr Speaker, most of the infrastructure in the citrus industry is not really a problem at the moment. The problem that we have is the disease —
    Mr Ricketts-Hagan noon


    [Laughter]—the product is not acceptable in the European market, and until we are on top of the problem of ‘fruit' flies, we will not be able to do effective marketing.
    Mr Speaker noon
    Hon Members, order!

    The last question.
    Mr Ebenezer Okletey Terlabi noon
    Mr Speaker, in the Minister's Answer, he said, they are to acquire IRRIDATION technology.

    Mr Speaker, irradiation enhances the shelf life of the product and therefore —
    Mr Terlabi noon
    Mr Speaker, I am laying the foundation to ask my question.
    Mr Speaker noon
    Hon Member, what is your question?
    Mr Terlabi noon
    Mr Speaker, I would want to ask the Hon Deputy Minister whether they have considered the effect of this process of irradiation on the product.
    Mr Speaker noon
    Hon Deputy Minister, did you get the question the Hon Member asked? The Hon Member wants to know
    whether you have considered the effects of irradiation on the citrus fruits.
    Mr Ricketts-Hagan noon
    Mr Speaker, the effect of the irradiation is to extend the shelf life of the product.
    Mr Nitiwul noon
    Mr Speaker, I know that Ghana Atomic Energy Commission deals with irradiation. What is IRRIDATION technology? I know they deal with irradiation technology, which is the process of exposing it to radiation. What is IRRIDATION technology?
    Mr Ricketts-Hagan noon
    Mr Speaker, I believe that the word is irradiation. It will be amended.
    Mr Nitiwul noon
    Mr Speaker, so, is it that the Hon Deputy Minister has amended his word to read irradiation? Once the amendment is done, I will leave it there.
    Mr Speaker, fruits that are diseased are not marketed. The question the Hon Member is asking is about fruits that are not diseased and are wasting on the fields. What are the steps taken to market them—not fruits that are diseased. We are talking of fruits that are not diseased.
    Mr Ricketts-Hagan noon
    Mr Speaker, currently, most of the citrus fruits produced in Ghana are marketable to agro- processing companies in the Central and Eastern Regions of the country. Some are also sold in raw states to buyers in la Cote d'Ivoire, Togo, Benin and sometimes, Nigeria.
    Mr Speaker 12:10 p.m.
    Question number 399; Hon Member for Prestea/Huni Valley? [Pause.]
    Hon Members, that brings us to the end of Question time.
    Hon Deputy Minister for Trade and Industry, thank you for responding to the Question.
    Hon Members, as agreed on, I will call the Minister for Education to move item number 7.
    Hon Second Deputy Speaker to take the Chair.
    Item number 7 on the Order Paper, Motion; Hon Minister for Education?
    BIILS -- SECOND READING 12:10 p.m.
    Minister for Education (Prof. Naana Jane Opoku-Agyemang) 12:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that the University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment Bill, 2014 be now read a Second time.
    Mr Speaker, the University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment will train undergraduate and graduate students, undertake research and promote knowledge transfer with special focus on addressing the serious environmental challenges that confront the nation and the continent in the first instance. Therefore, while generation of knowledge will be a key function of the university, emphasis will be placed on the application and extension of the knowledge generated to the environment for sustainable development purposes.
    In this regard, Mr Speaker, the university will seek to train and produce graduates who are innovative, analytically minded, practically oriented and equipped with the relevant knowledge and skills.
    These graduates are expected to be well positioned as agents and partners in the
    identification and resolution of prevailing environmental and sustainable develop- ment challenges. The academic pro- grammes emphasise the environmental sustainability with special reference to addressing climate change, environmental degradation and the built environment.
    The university will comprise the following faculties: Faculty of Sustainable Development, Faculty of Natural and Environmental Sciences, Faculty of Agro- business and Economics, Faculty of the Built Environment and of course, relevant agriculture and environmental related faculties, schools, institutes and centres as the Council may determine.
    Mr Speaker, among the strategic goals of the institution are the following 12:10 p.m.
    develop undergraduate and graduate programmes that attract and retain high calibre academic and administrative staff as well as motivated students.
    Create and maintain an environment for teaching and research excellence through strategic partnerships and the creation and provision of resources for research.
    Generate and disseminate high impact research findings that address critical developmental and environmental challenges at the local, national and international levels.
    Mr Speaker, I respectfully move for a Second reading of the University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment, Bill, 2104.
    Thank you.
    Question proposed.
    Mr Speaker 12:10 p.m.
    Yes, Chairman of the Committee?
    MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER
    Chairman of the Committee (Mr Mathias Asoma Puozaa) 12:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to support the Motion ably moved by the Minister for Education and in so doing I wish to present the Report of your Committee.
    Introduction
    Environmental studies and agro- business are emerging as fundamental to the development of every nation, including Ghana. While a few public universities currently offer some related courses in this field, there is no public university dedicated solely to research and dissemination of knowledge in the field of environment and agro-business.
    It is to address this gap that the Government proposed to establish the University of Environment and Sus- tainable Development.
    Accordingly, the University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment Bill, 2014 was presented to Parliament and read the first time on Friday,12th December, 2014. Pursuant to article 106 (4) and (5) of the Constitution and Order 186 of the Standing Orders of the House. Mr Speaker referred the Bill to the Committee on Education for consideration and report.
    Acknowledgement
    The Committee held meetings with stakeholders to examine the Bill in detail. The Committee is grateful to the following for their inputs during the consideration of the Bill:
    a. Hon Minister for Education, Prof Naana Jane Opoku-Agyemang and officials from the Ministry;

    b. The National Accreditation Board (NAB);

    c. National Council for Tertiary Education (NCTE);

    d. The University Teachers Association of Ghana (UTAG);

    e. Ghana Association of University Administrators (GAUA);

    f. Federation of University Senior Staff Association of Ghana

    (FUSSAG);

    g. Vice Chancellor, University of Health and Allied Sciences (UHAS); and

    h. Officials from the Attorney- General's Department.

    Reference

    The Committee made reference to the following documents during its delibera- tions:

    a. The 1992 Constitution;

    b. The Standing Orders of Parliament;

    c. The University of Ghana Act, 2010 (Act 806);

    d. The University of Health and Allied Sciences Act, 2011 (Act

    828)

    e. The University of Energy and Natural Resources Act, 2011, (Act 830).

    Object of the Bill

    The Bill seeks to establish the University of Environment and Sustain- able Development to provide higher education and promote research and dissemination of knowledge in the fields

    of environment, agro-business and sustainable development.

    Content of the Bill

    The Bill is made up of 40 clauses and divided into four main parts as follows:

    Part One: The University (clauses 1-4)

    Part Two: Administration (clauses 5-30)

    Part Three: Financial matters (clauses 31-35)

    Part Four: Miscellaneous matters (clauses 36-40)

    Observations

    The Committee is of the view that the establishment of the University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment is a step in the right direction, given that issues relating to the environment have become of great concern to governments the world over; therefore, the establishment of this university will go a long way to promote higher education, research and initiatives that will help address the environmental challenges confronting our nation.

    The Committee acknowledges that the availability of personnel with skills and knowledge in environment and related fields is pivotal to developing effective strategies to protect and sustain the environment. The Committee therefore, finds the proposed establishment of a University dedicated to the environment and related fields, an important initiative.

    However, given the experience of long- established public universities, most of which have lost focus of their core mandate and introduced unrelated programmes, the Committee underscored the need to ensure that the University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment, when established, concentrates on its core mandate, which are environment, agro-business and sustainable develop- ment.

    The Committee observed that the establishment of the University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment in the Eastern Region was appro- priate because it would bring access to public university education closer to the people of the region and its environs.

    Members were also of the view that the siting of acampus of the university at Donkorkrom would undoubtedly help to open up the Afram Plains for research and exploration into the vast agricultural potentials of the area.

    The Committee noted that one of the main challenges confronting public universities in Ghana relates to how to mobilise adequate funds to effectively run their various programmes. The Committee is of the view that public universities, especially the newly established ones, should be adequately empowered to mobilise the needed resources through various initiatives to compliment GOG funding.

    Proposed Amendments

    Clause 2 -- Amendment proposed -- subclause (1), delete the second occurrence of paragraph (a).

    Amendment proposed -- subclause (1), delete the second occurrence paragraph (b).

    Clause 2 -- Amendment proposed -- Subclause (2), delete paragraphs (a) -- (e), and insert the following:

    (a) Schools, Faculties, Institutes and Centres relating to environment, agro-business and sustainable development.

    (b) any other related programmes as may be determined by the Council”.

    Clause 3 -- Amendment proposed -- delete and insert the following:

    “The University shall be established at Somanya with campuses in Donkorkrom and any other place as the Council may determine”.

    Clause 7 -- Amendment proposed -- subclause (1), line 3, delete “of the Council” and insert same after “non- members”

    Clause 10 -- Amendment proposed -- Add the following new subclauses after subclause (2):

    (3) “The Council may nullify a decision taken in which the interested member participated to the extent necessary”.

    (4) “The Council shall enact Statutes for the effective imple- mentation of this section”.

    Clause 19 -- Amendment proposed -- Delete paragraph (e) and insert same before paragraph (c).

    Clauses 19 -- Amendment proposed -- Clause 19 to be and clause 20 renumbered as 20 and vice versa.

    Clause 22 -- Amendment proposed -- Subclause (2), line 1, after “Finance” insert “is responsible for financial resource mobilisation and”.

    Clause 24 -- Amendment proposed -- Subclause (1), paragraph (a), lines 5-6 delete “in the Eastern Region and other campuses of the University elsewhere in the country” and insert “as the Council may determine”.

    Clause 31 -- Amendment proposed -- Subclause (3), line 3, delete “from” and insert “form”.

    Clause 37-- Amendment proposed -- Renumber as clause 29.

    Clause 40 -- Amendment proposed -- Subclause (5), line 2, before “Universities”, insert “public”.

    Clause 40: -- Amendment proposed -- subclause (5), line 2, delete “two” and insert “three”.

    Conclusion

    The Committee believes that the establishment of the University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment will enable the country prioritise the study and research in environment and related fields to address environmental challenges and promote socioeconomic development.

    Against this background, it is recommended that the House adopts the Report of the Select Committee on Education in respect of the University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment Bill, 2014.

    Respectfully submitted.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Thank you, Hon Chairman of the Committee for ably presenting the Report to the House.
    Did you second the Motion?
    Mr Puozaa 12:20 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Thank you.
    I would want to draw your attention to Order 81. I must confess that I have also wondered why Order 81 is couched the way it is. I would be asking the Hon Minority Leader and the past Hon Majority Leader for their comments on Order 81, which says:
    “Unless otherwise provided in these Orders, every motion unless made at the Second Reading or Consideration Stage of a Bill, must be seconded, and if not seconded, cannot be debated or entered in the Votes and Proceedings.”
    My understanding of Order 81 is that when it is the Second Reading or the Consideration Stage of a Bill, the Motion should not be seconded. But I wonder whether my understanding is right, and why the rules are couched in this manner. In that case, if you second the Motion, then we cannot proceed.
    Hon Minority Leader?
    I would also be asking Hon Cletus Avoka as well.
    This is in light of Order 81; if the Motion has been seconded, what do we do?
    Minority Leader (Mr Osei Kyei- Mensah-Bonsu) 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, when a Motion is moved at the Second Reading or the Consideration Stage --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Hon Minority Leader, we cannot hear you, please.
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I said that when a Motion is moved in respect of any item or matter as far as the Second Reading or the Consideration Stage of a Bill is concerned, they are not seconded. So, once the Hon Minister moves for a Second Reading of a Bill, the Hon Chairman in presenting the Report may associate with that Motion. Technically, that is what we are supposed to do.
    But every now and then, we have Hon Committee Chairs who come in to second the Motion, by submitting the Report of the Committee, which is what the Hon Chairman did. So, perhaps, he was behaving to type. But technically, we are not supposed to do that.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Is it not fatal?
    Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:20 p.m.
    Well, Mr Speaker, I would not say that it is a fatal wound, but the Hon Chairman ought to have known better.
    He is the youngest Hon Chairman in the House, and I believe he wants to be a conservative as far as these matters are concerned. So, I guess we could go ahead.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Hon Avoka, do you want to say something, please?
    Mr Cletus A. Avoka 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think that the Hon Minority Leader has said it all. It has been the convention for some time now, to second Motions of that nature. But clearly, under Order 81, the Second Reading or the Consideration Stage of a Bill does not require seconding of the Motion. One only needs to support the Motion moved by the Hon Minister, but one does not need to second such a Motion.
    rose
    Mr Avoka 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, but this is what we are used to in this House for some time now.It is important that you have drawn our attention, and I think we should take note of it and comply with the Standing Orders of the House.
    So, I think what has happened this morning, does no harm; it has been the practice. But under Oder 81, strictly, as the Hon Minority Leader said, you do not need to second the Motion.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Hon Akoto Osei, the question is simple. When you look at your rules, under Order 81, are we supposed to second Motions dealing with the Second Reading of Bills?
    Dr A . A. Osei 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I rose earlier because I have been in this House for quite some time and my Hon senior Colleague said that it has been the convention to second a Motion like that. It has not been. That would have been an aberration. The convention is not to second.
    In fact, yesterday, it occurred. It is not seconded.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Hon Akoto Osei, there are times that -- I agree with Hon Avoka. You have been pointing out, of late, to the Hon Minority Leader and one or two people. But technically, what we have been doing for a long time is that --
    Dr A. A. Osei 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, it is not fatal because in the end, he said that he associates himself with the Motion. We ignore what he said in the beginning, but in the end he corrects himself; we would move on.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Thank you very much.
    Clearly, I believe that from the advice of the past Hon Majority Leader, Hon Cletus Avoka and the Hon Minority Leader, Hon Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu, we would take a cue and then from now on, if it is the Second Reading or Consideration Stage of a Bill, the Hon Chairman would not second the Motion. He would rise and associate himself with the Motion.
    Hon Chairman, do you want to say something?
    Mr Puozaa 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if one makes a mistake a hundred times, that does not make it correct. So, this is about my sixth time of committing this same error. If that is wrong, I would wish to speak to this Motion.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
    Hon Chairman, your graciousness must be noted by all Hon Members of the House. The way in which you conduct yourself with such dignity is much appreciated by the Chair.
    Indeed, I would not even say it is a mistake. It has been a convention that we use, but we are now reminding ourselves of the rules. So, do not worry at all.
    Hon Avoka?
    Mr Cletus A. Avoka (NDC -- Zebilla) 12:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would want to support the Motion moved by the Hon Minister for Education.
    Mr Speaker, the observation made by the Committee on page 4, paragraph 6.3 is very apt; that indeed, they would ensure that the new university maintains its focus or core mandate, rather than digress and adopt other programmes and subjects,
    which are not relevant to the core mandate of environment, agro-business and sustainable development.
    This is very important because in Ghana today, we have a huge unemployment problem facing us. That is because many of the universities, whether public or private, have departed from their core mandates and have been doing subjects and programmes that are not very relevant on the job market.
    Therefore, we are producing young men and women who do not have the employable skills and are unmarketable in the job market. I think it is very important that this new University that has the mandate for environment, agro-business and sustainable development must keep and stick to its core mandate rather than going to do courses that they think are more attractive and therefore, can get more fees for the running of the University.
    Dr Matthew Opoku Prempeh 12:30 p.m.
    On a point of order. Mr Speaker, I would like the Hon Member to tell us what he means by “sustainable development”. We use terms that are not defined anywhere that would give these same universities we are establishing the avenue to do what they like.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    I think this is such a major point that we would allow you to contribute to it.
    Dr Prempeh 12:30 p.m.
    He is going on.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    I did not say it is not a major point of order. You can contribute.
    Mr Avoka 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would also want to congratulate the Government for now having a university in one of the biggest regions in this country which is the Eastern Region. I think gradually at the end of the day, we might have a public university in each of the ten regions of Ghana.
    In this respect, I would want to urge Government to also ensure that the two regions that are left; the Upper East and Upper West Regions should also benefit from public universities that we are establishing in the country.
    What they have in the Upper East and Upper West Regions, are campuses of the University for Development Studies (UDS). They are not full-fledged universities but only campuses and I think that in line with the spirit and commitment of Government to provide every region with a university, these two regions should be taken care of.
    I would pray that the Hon Minister for Education, who is in the House would take this prayer request to Government so that, sooner than later, we could also have universities in the Upper East and West Regions.
    Mr Speaker, it is important that the University functions well. I think that in looking for a Vice-Chancellor to take care of the management of this university, while we should have consideration for academic qualification, we should also be looking for somebody who is business- like, has business management skills, has initiative and proactive. Putting an academician or a professor there, to push pen and paper would not help the university.
    Gone are the days where we were only appointing academicians to head these universities; while it is important to be
    sufficiently educated, they must have business acumen to run these universities in a profitable manner and if that is done, the university can take care of certain basic programmes and courses, rather than depend on Central Government for every budget that they want to run their programmes.
    Mr Speaker, I think it is very important that the university ensures that it admits Ghanaians. Many of these public universities are now committed to money more than academic consideration. So, they admit foreign students because they can pay foreign currency and that can help them run the universities.
    I think, the emphasis in this university is a very important programme that they have the mandate and therefore, they should emphasise taking young Ghanaian men and women rather than taking foreigners because that is where they can get money.
    I think with all these recommenda-tions from the Committee, I would want to urge my Hon Colleagues to support the Motion so that sooner than later, by the close of this year, this Bill would have come into law and this university can take off.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    Hon Opoku Prempeh?
    Sorry, Hon Prof. Fobih?
    Prof. Dominic Fobih (Assin South -- NPP) 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to support the Motion for establishing the University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment. This is an important institution going to play a vital role in our develop- mental agenda. As at now, we have many
    challenges related to developmental issues.Some of these lead to land degradation, water pollution and many others which are related to our mining operations or galamsey operations rampant in the country.
    In the forestry sector, we have wanton destruction of our forest cover, chain saw operators who are also callous of our environment and we have sanitation issues. Many of these issues we know are so vital that, unless we tackle them with all the vigour that is needed, they are going to undermine our economy, our social development and our sustainable development as well. Therefore, the thought of establishing a unique university for this purpose is particularly welcome.
    Mr Speaker, let me make a few comments about this establishment. We do know very well that most of the universities that we have so far established as public institutions are not seen or monitored or supervised to follow their proposed agenda and they normally deviate with the resolve that they are not getting the maximum benefit from their operations.
    We talk of polytechnics, premier universities all spreading their tentacles, to the extent that they do not seem to have any clear cut focus.
    Some of these challenges also arise from the fact that, in establishing these institutions, particularly the universities, there are laid down minimum standards to be met which Government agencies like the Accreditation to Board and the Council for Tertiary Education to make sure that they are in place before they take off rightly.
    So even if as a public institution, before we can put in public money, we need parliamentary consent or approval we still have to make sure that sufficient provision has been made when this approval is given so that, at least, the minimum standard or things required are put in place for their take off.
    I am saying this because students of the University of Health and Allied Sciences (UHAS) have to travel to the University of Ghana for their laboratory facilities or services and this is unduly affecting their work.
    There were also some basic facilities that were not in place even a year after the university had started operations and I even doubt now that some of these things that were complained of during the Committee's visit are still in place and these are normally standards that one would ensure that a private institution puts in place before we give them accreditation.
    But why are we not setting the right pace? So I think this is the time to remind the Government that, if indeed, it is bent on establishing the university, I think the basic requirements must be seen to be in place as early as possible so that the proper university environment would prevail for academic work to start.
    Mr Speaker, I would also like to point out that, we are talking about this institution addressing some of the persistent and perennial problems related to sustainable developmental issues, we have our trained engineers presiding over construction of houses, infrastructure in waterways and these are graduates from our public universities who should understand our problems better and should even know the Ghanaian problem and address it.
    Yet we do not see the results of the training and skills we have given them in these institutions. What is really wrong?
    Mr Governs Agbodza 12:30 p.m.
    On a point of order. Mr Speaker, I just heard my senior Colleague saying that Ghanaian trained
    engineers are supervising the construc- tion of structures in water ways and other things. That cannot be true. Every building that goes up in this country is not necessarily designed and supervised by a trained engineer. That is an illegality and we do not condone it so I just want him to maybe put it in a better context than to make everybody think that when we train people as engineers they rather go and do the wrong thing.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    Are you an engineer?
    Mr Agbodza 12:30 p.m.
    I am an architect.
    Prof Fobih 12:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we have some of these qualified personnel trained in our universities who are in charge as he is claiming, of these construction works, as supervisors or managers or in whatever capacity; their work is related to the provision of these services, yet some of these common problems that are complained about, the common person in the street prevail and cause havoc to us. That is what I am complaining about.
    We must begin to reflect on this and see where the problems are coming from. Is it from their training institutions or from themselves as a personal problem or what? That is the point I am trying to focus and bring out.
    So, I am saying that we need to build this sense of follow-up or some kind of innovation, just as we are trying to build institutions of an innovative nature, to build into their programmes some of these shortcomings that we have experienced in the past, so that we might not be repeating the same things just for the sake of having the University of Environment and Sustainable Development and yet not deriving the full benefits. That is the point I would want to stress here.
    Prof Fobih 12:40 p.m.


    We also need to emphasise again, that we are saying that Government of Ghana (GoG) is not going to be sufficient to really bring the University to the standard that we expect them to be, considering the many responsibilities on the national government. But I think the beginning is from the personnel that we recruit, the managers that are put in place to run these institutions.

    So, all these must be taken into account in this formative period that we are forming the concept of a new type of university that would provide optimum service as we expect; that would fulfil its optimum mandate and also give us maximum results as we expect.

    So, we also have to consider the right types of personnel and create proper environment or conditions that would attract the right type of personnel to discharge these duties for us. Otherwise, we would have the institution, we would have the personnel running them but we would not get the results -- The quality of product that we expect from these institutions.

    Mr Speaker, I would end my comments by suggesting that, we have a broad spectrum of services that such a university should be focused upon. We have University of Mines and Technology (UMaT), which trains technical personnel for the mining sector and other technological services. But, here, we are concentrating on when we have delivered the goods or as we are in the process of delivering, the havoc that is created out of it.

    These are the sustainable aspects of it or the environmental aspect of it that we are talking about. It is important that we have a university that is specifically going to devote its attention in terms of teaching, research and publications to address some of these issues.

    I would, therefore, give my total support to the establishment of the University in the Eastern Region. Furthermore, it should spread its tentacles to other areas where most particularly, these challenges are prevalent.

    Thank you.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
    Thank you.
    Mr Emmanuel K. Bedzrah (NDC -- Ho West) 12:40 p.m.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing me to add my voice to support the Motion to establish the University of Environment and Sustainable Development in the Eastern Region.
    Mr Speaker, sustainable development, as we all know, is to support the environment and to support every activity, not for today but for the generations to have not been born yet. So, that when we finish our resources, some resources would be left for the generations yet unborn. It is in the right direction to establish a university in Ghana that would take care of all this.
    This would bring to three the number of universities that have been established in recent times in Ghana and that includes the University of Health and Allied Sciences and the University of Energy and Natural Resources in Sunyani.
    Mr Speaker, the establishment of this University in Eastern Region, precisely at Afram Plains, is in the right direction. This is because that is an area that we all know has large tracks of farm land, vegetation and natural resources that students can learn from. In the past, we established universities in areas that would not have the practical experience.
    So, if the University is being established in Afram Plains, it is in the right direction so that students can have a practical experience in that area. It is also good because with the two Universities
    that have been established, there are lots of achievements that we are not churning out which people do not know. I visited the University of Energy and Natural Resources recently, just about a month ago and I was told by the Vice Chancellor that they have developed what we call solar dryers; solar dryers that can dry our fruits.As we were discussing this morning, they have developed solar dryers that can dry fruits, solar dryers that can make our --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
    The solar dryers can prevent disease in fruits?
    Mr Bedzrah 12:40 p.m.
    Yes, that can prevent disease in fruits.
    Mr Speaker, if a university that was established less than four years ago, can develop this equipment, then I believe that they need to --
    Mr Kwabena Okyere Darko-Mensah 12:40 p.m.
    -- rose --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
    Hon Kwabena Okyere Darko-Mensah, do you have a point of order?
    Mr Kwabena Okyere Darko-Mensah 12:40 p.m.
    On a point of order. The Hon Member is misleading this House. Solar dryers were developed by Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology (KNUST) long ago. Even when I was a student, we used it at the University.
    Mr Bedzrah 12:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I said on authority that I met with the Vice Chancellor and the Vice Chancellor told me that this has been developed. So, the Hon Member can go and ask the Vice Chancellor whether it was developed or not. In fact, she developed it and the Hon Minister for Education is here to attest to that.
    Mr Speaker, this achievement has been done in relatively, two or three years of the establishment of this University. So, in my view, establishing a university that would take care of the environment is good for this nation because we are sending out students outside this country, and we are paying huge sums of foreign exchange for training them to be professionals and technocrats in the area of sustainable development.
    So, if we can conserve that foreign exchange by getting our colleagues, our younger brothers and getting people to be trained in Ghana then I support it.
    Finally, I would like to encourage the Ministry of Education and those who would be at the helm of affairs of this University to look at the challenges of the recent universities that have been established. Some of the challenges, as we all know, has to do with infrastructural development. Some of the challenges we know, have to do with recruitment of lecturers in the faculties.
    I would want to plead with the Ministry, that they should give this University all the support that they need because, if you look at climate change as at now, it is affecting us.
    We do not have rain in our various farm areas for us to have a good harvest this year. So, I am appealing that this is a good University and good initiative by the Government, therefore, they should give the University every necessary support for it to be well established and see the light of day.
    The last thing I would want to speak about is the innovation about this University to take more students on board. We now have private universities that are doing courses that would make people, who otherwise not qualified, to be admitted to come on board so that they would be admitted. What are they doing? They are taking on people who do not
    Mr Bedzrah 12:40 p.m.


    have not even had senior high education but as matured students, to go through some training programme, and then gain the requisite qualification to be admitted into the school.

    So, I would want to appeal to managers of the University that would come on board, to come up with innovations that would bring people who are interested in development and sustainable develop- ment.

    Mr Speaker, with these few words, I support the Motion.

    Thank you.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
    Hon Members, I would start from the back and come forward. So, I would start with the Hon Member for Mpohor and then I would come forward. Everybody would have a say.
    Hon Member for Mpohor?
    Mr Alex K. Agyekum (NPP -- Mpohor) 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to support the Motion on the floor and in doing so, I would like to direct attention to page 4, that is the Recommendation of the Committee; Paragraph 6.4 and 6.5 and, especially on paragraph 6.5 relating to the mobilisation of funds.
    Mr Speaker, we are talking about sustainable development in the country and we all know what has befallen the new universities that the Government has graciously helped to set-up and the challenges that these new universities are facing.
    Mr Speaker, it is very nice for almost every region to get a university, but I do not think that the main purpose is to get
    these universities established only for them to face basic challenges. In the Report, the Hon Ranking Member spoke about the fact that, during the visit of the Committee, they saw that some basic things needed to be put in place for the take-off of the university were not there. So, Mr Speaker, if we rush and establish universities only for those universities to be handicapped, then it means that they are just there in name.
    Mr Speaker, we see the public universities which are already there and if one goes to the individual public universities and visit their websites, you would see a lot of challenges. Recently, we have seen the University of Ghana trying to ask the students there to pay certain charges for which the students threatened to go on demonstration. These are all happenings and challenges that should inform us in our effort to bring in additional public universities.
    Mr Speaker, I would also like to draw the attention of the Committee and also of the Ministry to the fact that, on the faculties which are supposed to be established as well as the various campuses, it is important that inasmuch as we set the parameters for the University Council which would be established, there is the need for us to give them that leverage so that when the university comes into force, as regards the basic things and challenges that would be faced, they would know from the ground and see a way forward.
    If we fail to do that and we give them clear cut parameters,as soon as we set those lines for them, it becomes difficult for them to operate outside those parameter. So, on the location of the additional campuses as well as other things, it is my considered opinion that regarding these nitty-gritties, we allow the University Council, when the university
    comes into force, to sit down and look at the challenges that they are facing and recommend and do what is appropriate.
    But most importantly, Mr Speaker, we must also understand that availability is not accessibility. For the fact that we are going to establish this university in the Eastern Region does not mean that, if we fail to do what is right, people in the Eastern Region would have access. What has happened to the universities that we have set-up? Go and check the records of those individuals who hail from the catchment areas how many of them are capable of accessing.
    This is all because the funds which are supposed to go to these universities are not going, and the University councils and the management find ways and means of introducing additional fees so as to keep the recurrent expenses of the University up.
    So, when it happens like that, the public universities which are supposed to help the people are virtually seen to becoming like the private universities in the country. So we would want to caution that, just as the Report indicates when the university is established, it is going to help the people in the Eastern Region, we would want to caution that the Government should put in place things which would enhance accessibility.
    Mr Speaker, with these few observa- tions, I would like to associate myself with the Motion.
    I thank you very much for the opportunity.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    Thank you, Hon Member.
    Before the Hon Minister, Hon Member? I am sure this is a matter dear to our heart, so I would recognise everybody.
    Mr Ebenezer O. Terlabi (NDC -- Lower Manya Krobo) 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to support the establishment of a university in the Eastern Region.
    rose
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    Yes, Hon Member for Old Tafo?
    Dr A. A. Osei 12:50 p.m.
    On point of order. Mr Speaker, I thought we were contributing to a Motion and not supporting to the establishment of the university.
    Mr Terlabi 12:50 p.m.
    Sorry, I am supporting the Motion, but maybe -- [Interruption.]
    Mr Speaker, as I said, I would want thank the President for this bold initiative. Apart from the fact that this University is going to go a long way to help the training of the youth in the Eastern Region and the whole Ghana, it is also going to bring a lot of indirect jobs insofar as the area that is going to host the university is concerned, and for that matter, Mr Speaker, it is worth supporting.
    Mr Speaker, going through the Report, in reference to paragraph 6.3, I would like to state that it is true that a lot of our universities seem to have diverted from their original focus. However, sometimes, it is not their making and therefore, there is the need for us to take into considera- tion some of the limitations that lead to the springing up of various departments and units that hitherto were not the focus of these universities.
    Mr Speaker, for instance, in the establishment of a university that would go into agro-business and environmental studies, there would be the need to recruit
    Ms Rosemund C. Abrah 12:50 p.m.
    On a point of order. Mr Speaker, I beg to comment on the Hon Member on the floor 's presentation.
    I would like to do it by referring the Hon Member to the full Bill on the establishment of the university. Sitting back and listening to inputs coming in, I am of the view that most of us or some of us --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    Hon Member for --
    Ms Abrah 12:50 p.m.
    Please, let me end. We have the Bill. For example, a lot of the nitty- gritties there are -- [Interruption.]
    An Hon Member 12:50 p.m.
    Sit down, Old woman.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    Please, let us respect ourselves. It is not just the Chair, let us respect ourselves. There are certain comments that I would not tolerate.
    People are looking at us, and in Ghanaian society everybody is young -- One must be inclined that you could grow old. Some of us would not reach her age,
    and we would pass away. So, I would not take that from anybody.
    Hon Abrah, I think I would recognise you to make your contribution. When you make your contribution, you would be in the position to raise those important points.
    Hon Member for Lower Manya Krobo, continue.
    Mr Terlabi 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, what I am saying is that, in fashioning out the programmes, the university would need to take into consideration the contribution of people who would not be directly involved in the main courses that are going to be taught in the university, so that they feel being part of the university and then contribute to uplift or establish the university. What we deserve from the university, without unnecessarily burdening the university is not by creating departments and units that would end up diverting the focus of the university.
    Mr Speaker, I would also like to mention that this university is supposed to do purely research and disseminate informa- tion. Therefore, I would implore the Government of Ghana to make sure that funds are made available for these institutions. This is because most of the time, we hide behind the accolade of lack of funds to divert the focus of the university is by creating courses that really do not help in maintaining the focus.
    It is all because management of the institutions feel that going into those areas would give them quick returns, therefore they would be able to manage their institutions very well.
    On that note, Mr Speaker, once again, I thank the President and I support the Motion.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    Hon Rosemund Comfort Abrah?
    Ms Rosemund Comfort Abrah (NPP-- Weija/Gbawe) 1 p.m.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    Hon Abrah, sorry. Hon Prempeh is going to the Appointments Committee, so I will recognise him. After him I will recognise you.
    Dr Matthew Opoku Prempeh (NPP-- Manhyia South) 1 p.m.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker.
    I rise to support the establishment of the University of Environment and Sustainable Development.
    Mr Speaker, listening to Hon Members, the memorandum attached to the Bill that was brought, with your kind permission I beg to quote;
    “The purpose of the Bill is to establish the University of Environ- ment and Sustainable Development to provide higher education, disseminate knowledge related to developments in environment and agro-business and to create the needed environment that fosters exchange of knowledge and the pursuit of national develop-ment.”
    Mr Speaker, the Bill goes on further to say,
    “…there is no public university dedicated solely to research and dissemination of knowledge in environment and agro-business.”
    Mr Speaker, ab initio, this university is not going to help bring up graduates with the skills we need to develop the country. The Bill is geared towards academic research. Mr Speaker, that is the danger, so when you hear Hon Members
    speak about relevance of university education to national development--We are not saying research is not important, but the people with the skills is what we lack.
    Mr Speaker, this university is not going to be very different from the public universities we have established. Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology undertakes all these programmes that this university hopes to do.
    Mr Speaker, interestingly, when you look at the University of Energy and Natural Resources, and the University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment, the tenets are not very different.
    So, I ask myself, what is sustainable development, especially in the Ghanaian context? The United Nations Develop- ment Programme (UNDP) has a Report about sustainable development in Ghana, and it talks about meeting our energy needs with socio-economic development.
    Is that what this university is going to do?
    An Hon Minister: No
    Dr Prempeh 1 p.m.
    No! Thank you, Hon Minister.
    Mr Speaker, sustainable development has a lot of definitions, but the most common definition is what appeared in the Bruntland Report of “Our Common Future”.
    Mr Speaker, it defines sustainable development as “development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the needs of the future generation to meet their own needs.”
    Just by that definition, the University that we are establishing here, that is
    Dr Prempeh 1 p.m.


    supposed to disseminate knowledge and do research, to teach people and offer higher education can do every single course.

    I will give five practical examples of sustainable development.

    Solar energy: Mr Speaker, we are establishing a university that has the foundation to do research in sustainable development. Solar energy and wind energy. What would the university that was set up in Sunyani be doing if this has to go into this development?

    Mr Speaker, crop rotation is one of the sustainable development paradigms, simple crop rotation. So, they can go into agriculture and do every single course in agriculture.

    Green spaces: Mr Speaker my Hon Colleague who spoke told us his background in agriculture. One of the biggest problems in this country that the Hon Ranking Member talked about is the built environment.

    Is this University going to establish an architectural department, planning department or what? It is so fundamental that when we hear a former Hon Majority Leader talk about commercially viable universities -- are we turning our public universities into profit making entities?

    Mr Speaker --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    Who said that?
    Dr Prempeh 1 p.m.
    The former Hon Majority Leader when he spoke about us employing university Chancellors who are --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    The name please, for the record.
    Dr Prempeh 1 p.m.
    Hon Avoka -- Are we going to employ Vice-Chancellors who are more commercially inclined or have business acumen to do commercial interests?
    Mr Speaker, what is happening to universities that are engaged in commercial interests? How is it reflecting in government subventions?
    Mr Speaker, I support the establish- ment of this university, but I would encourage the Ministry of Education to give the policy directions to the State so that the university cannot do courses without coming back to Parliament for approval.
    Mr Speaker, just looking at what they have said and what the Committee's Report says, there is nowhere that when we have finished giving the mantle to a university's Vice Chancellor he would not go ahead to do -- is medicine not a sustainable development course? Is law not a sustainable development course?
    Is teacher training not a sustainable development course? Is nursing not a sustainable development course? Is architecture not a sustainable develop- ment course?
    This university has actually been given the tools to do any single course it wants to do. So, the Hon Minister for Education, since she is here, should make sure that somewhere in the Bill we define those courses the university can undertake and not give them the carte blanche we have introduced, where we do this clause “ and any other sustainable development …”, no.
    Let them come back to an appointing authority -- it could be National Accre- ditation Board or something, or Curricular Division of the Ministry or something, to say we are going to do this or that course.
    Mr Speaker, when Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology was set up, the Social Science Department was moved to the University of Cape Coast. All the library books were sent there. Now what has happened? There are more people doing social sciences and other things in the Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology than even the science they were supposed to offer.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    And the Business Department was moved to Legon.
    Dr Prempeh 1 p.m.
    The Business Department was moved to Legon, and they have now established another Business School.
    So, we do not see, after getting all the propaganda that my Hon Colleague was talking about, the vision, the mission and things which are very important, we should make sure they do things that the whole nation can support.
    Mr Speaker, an Hon Member says we lack certain basic things, but when we look at the policy development framework, the ideas are turned into policies, the policy comes to this House and is turned into law before we can even commit resources.
    So, I understand that before we can even commit more resources, we have to help pass this legislation, which we are all going to help do. But the nation that is being told that it does not have money, we should learn to expand faculties to admit more people and not necessarily start up new ones that we cannot even fund.
    Mr Speaker, let that notion which is getting into our heads that when we have a university, it means that our people
    would be getting access be removed -- it is not true.
    The university establishment has got nothing to do with access. It has got everything to do with academic qualification, and we hope that with this university, the Hon Minister can tell us more, to make this university a more viable one than just a name.
    Thank you.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 a.m.
    Hon Alhaji Amadu Seidu I thought I saw you.
    Alhaji Seidu Amadu (NDC--Yapei/ Kusawgu) 1:10 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, it is, indeed, true, that environmental challenges are one of the serious issues confronting all the economies of this world. Therefore, the establishment of this university is in the right direction.
    I only wish, that --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 a.m.
    Sorry, Hon Amadu Seidu, when you finish, I would take Hon Haruna Iddrisu. This is because he would be attending the Appointments Committee meeting. After him, I will come to this side. So, I would take two from the Majority side, and two from the Minority side.
    Hon Member, continue.
    Alhaji Amadu 1:10 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, it is therefore my wish that the managers of education in this country look at the definition of ‘environment' in its elastic form. I am saying this because Mr Speaker, one cannot talk about the environment without first and foremost looking at issues of land usage and management in this country.
    Mr Speaker, although we know that there are various institutions established
    Alhaji Amadu 1:10 a.m.


    by Government, like the Environmental Protection Agency, the Centre for Scientific and Industrial Research, and Water Resources Commission. I think that the training of adequate manpower to augment these institutions in the discharge of their mandate is very important.

    Mr Speaker, my major concern has to do with land usage and management in this country. If you go to the mining areas, and see the level and quantum of land degradation as a result of the activities of small scale miners, or miners in general, it is very frightening.

    Mr Speaker, if you go to the forest areas, the fragile savannah zone, and see the extent to which the forest is being degraded, it is very frightening. If you look at the activities of sand winners along the beaches and other parts of this country, including gravel winning,it is also very frightening.

    Therefore, in talking about the environment, we need to look at it in its holistic manner, so that we can adopt the curriculum that would address these issues, or else, in the face of this climate change that everybody is worried about, we are likely to accelerate activities that would give climate change the opportunity to affect our environment.

    Mr Speaker, if one looks at the effect of winning gravel and building on our slopes or hill slopes, for example, if one is coming from Kasoa, just as one crosses the toll bridge road, one would notice that there is a lot of degradation on the hills to the right, that is when coming from Kasoa and nobody seems to worry.

    Sometimes, we have what we call earth tremors, particularly in that area, where

    we are told the epic centre of earthquake in Ghana is, and people are attacking the hill without bothering about the effects of mountains and hills to climate and other sound environmental management systems. We are just building.

    If you go to Amasaman, it is the same thing, and several other places in this country. Therefore, Mr Speaker, let us give opportunity to this University to look at its curriculum, to develop and adopt measures that would give us the opportunity to be able to manage our environment in a manner that in future, would safeguard the people of this country.

    Mr Speaker, with these few comments, I would want to support this Motion, hoping that the university, when it is established, would get the necessary funding and support, so that it can stand on its feet, and deliver on its core mandate.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 a.m.
    Hon Members, Hon Haruna Iddrisu is attending the Appointments Committee meeting. So, I would take two each the Majority and the Minority side.
    After Hon Haruna Iddrisu Hon Abrah, then Hon Dr Assibey-Yeboah.
    Mr Haruna Iddrisu (NDC--Tamale South) 1:10 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to associate myself with the Motion ably moved by the Hon Minister for Education, that the University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment Bill, 2014 be now read a Second time.
    In doing so, Mr Speaker, may I refer you to article 38, page 40 of the 1992 Constitution as I have it, and with your kind permission it reads;
    “The State shall provide educational facilities at all levels and in all the Regions of Ghana, and shall, to the
    greatest extent feasible, make those facilities available to all citizens”
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister, by virtue of this Bill, is contributing to the attainment of this noble constitutional objective, and I would therefore, fundamentally disagree with my Hon Colleague, Hon Mathew Opoku Prempeh, where he says that the establishment of this University has nothing to do with access.
    Mr Speaker, for all intents and purposes, this would contribute to expanding access to higher education in Ghana. It is not a doubtful matter, because access means -- and Mr Speaker, just to share some statistics, between 1991 up to 1997, we had over 40 per cent --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 a.m.
    What does “access” mean?
    I am following you closely, so what does “access” mean?
    Mr H. Iddrisu 1:10 a.m.
    Mr Speaker, having the opportunity to be educated at the tertiary level, and this would add to the number of tertiary institutions, to be established in the country, and specifically, as indicated by the Committee.
    We have a growing youthful population as a country, and the extent to which we manage that is to the country's advantage -- and I beg to say that Mr Speaker, we are better off with a youthful educated population, than an uneducated youthful population as a country, going forward. That is why managing issues of the environment is important. My Hon Colleague quoted the 1987 classical definition of sustainable development.
    There are still capacity challenges in Ghana on the environment, energy, and
    biodiversity. And to the extent that we train a core, it would add to improving our human capital base. I agree with him only on the matter of skills mismatched, that we should, as a country, begin to ensure that we produce persons who fit the needs of industry sometimes, and sometimes the needs of commerce, not necessarily giving them generic general academic training.
    Mr Speaker, we do have other tertiary institutions, and like he rightly pointed out and, I do share the admonishing that he gave to the Hon Minister for Education.What was the core mission, objective and mandate of the early universities that were established?
    I think we need to do a re-evaluation of it, in order that we can direct them to focus on those core missions, as were established. If the emphasis was on science, we should let it be on science, because the future is about science sustainable development goals.
    Mr Speaker, I would like to raise one pertinent issue, and the Hon Minister must take interest? How do the universities use their Internally Generated Funds (IGF)? How does it complement Government's budget to them?How does that complement initiative such as Ghana Education Trust Fund (GETFund) in order that the use of the IGF would support not just the expansion of accommodation infrastructures but also have relevance to core curricular that are done in the universities?
    I think that as a Parliament, we must take interest in the audited accounts of the universities that come to this House, so that we can raise questions, as to the use of the Internally Generated Funds of our public universities.
    I think one would want to commend the Hon Minister. I do know that she is working to realise the dream of Government and President Mahama, which
    Mr H. Iddrisu 1:10 a.m.


    is to have a tertiary institution of a university status, in every Region of Ghana, so that by the end of 2016 and beyond as a Government, we can boast that in each Region of Ghana, there is a public university.

    I do know that there are private universities and other institutions. [Interruption.]Mr Speaker, my final comment is, again to the Hon Minister for Education. The motive for establishing GETFund was for it to complement funding to higher education. It appears today that we are drifting away from it and it is becoming more of a supplement.

    I think we need to make sure that we allocate more of the resources -- Mr Speaker, if you take the universities of yester years, during your time, it is certainly not the university today. The University of Ghana today has expanded, with encouraging numbers, and I am just proud that Ghana is producing young graduates who are well educated.

    What we need to do is to polish the skills. For instance, why must a university student leave the school without Information and Communication Training (ICT), when we know that a competitive world of work would require that he has some skills in Information and Communication Technology?We also should be mindful that we are not just producing graduates for Ghana,we are producing graduates for the world of work and the competitive world, that each of them must be able to compete with his or her colleagues and have a pride of place.

    Mr Speaker, with these few words, I should also say that in the Eastern Region, the Okyehene has distinguished himself on matters related to the environment, and I expect, I have no hesitation that -- I am sure in the

    foreseeable future, we would see him establish a chair, to further deepen his commitment to decent and dignified environmental management in this country.

    With these few words, Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity, and I commend the Hon Minister.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    I thought you were going to suggest that the Okyehene should be the Chancellor of the University rather than the Chair. Anyway, Hon Abrah.
    Ms Rosemund C. Abrah (NPP -- Weija/Gbawe) 1:20 p.m.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity. I rise to support the establishment of the University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment.
    First of all, I would like to comment on observation 6.3 which is asking the University to focus on the core mandate of Environment, Agriculture and Sustainable Development. I think this observation was made because we took into consideration the fact that, furtherance to establishing other campuses, which may even go outside, maybe, the University will never lose focus on the fact that it has been established to concentrate on developmental issues and agricultural business issues and the sustainable development.
    The issue of sustainable development, I know Mr Speaker, is raising some doubts and a lot of questions because the word seems a bit ambiguous. But then when the Committee met, not all of the findings and what we proposed could be couched here. We have taken into consideration,
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Thank you very much, Hon Member for Weija/ Gbawe.
    Hon Assibey-Yeboah; we are taking two from the Minority side of the House, we will come to the Majority side of the House.
    Mr Ahmed Ibrahim 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I was just coming to plead with you so that you make it three so that the Hon Member of Parliament (MP) for Donkorkrom would be part of it.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    I have noted him down long ago. How can we have such a serious matter that I will not call him? He has to speak his mind.The thing is coming to his constituency so he should not worry.
    Hon Muntaka, do you want to say something into the microphone or we should speak with signs language?
    Dr Mark Assibey-Yeboah (NPP -- New Juaben South) 1:20 p.m.
    Thank you once again Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to the Motion on the floor of the House.
    Mr Speaker, the establishment of the University of Environment and Sustainable Development is a laudable idea. It is expected as indicated on page four of the Report that the University will concentrate on its core mandate. I would want to take issue with the location of the University, particularly, where a university should be sited in the Eastern Region.
    Mr Speaker, it is not for nothing that the University of Cape Coast is in Cape Coast and the University of Ghana is in Legon, Accra and the Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology is in Kumasi.
    A university requires faculties, well trained, ideally with a PhD, so if you hire faculty then you want to place them in a location with the right infrastructure and facilities because they have family, there should be good schools and all other facilities that would make them want to join such a university. If there is going to be a university for the Eastern Region, I would have expected that the main campus would be in Koforidua.
    Mr Speaker, all the Polytechnics which would be turned into universities in a matter of a few months are in regional capitals. Mr Speaker, the main campus now is sited in Somanya with a satellite
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Hon --
    Mr Mahama Ayariga 1:20 p.m.
    On a point of order. Mr Speaker --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    I called just Hon --
    Mr Mahama Ayariga 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the way your gaze was fixed --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    [Laughter.] Hon Ayariga.
    Mr Ayariga 1:20 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker, I think that every Hon Member of this House has a right to express his opinion on any matter, but to claim that the decision is a mere political decision is clearly misleading.
    In any case, Mr Speaker, the Hon Member said that already, there are plans to convert the polytechnic into a university and the polytechnic is already in Koforidua. Will it not be strategic if another university is being established and it is located --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Hon Minister, I have done a list of those who I am going to recognise with the blessing of your leadership and you are very high on that list. In fact. you are high, my good friend Hon Quashigah is also there and of course the host Member of Parliament is there as well, so do not worry.
    rose
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Hon Member for Somanya, you have had your bite at the cherry, do you want another bite?
    Mr Terlarbi 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, referring to Somanya as a place with no opportunities -- [Interruption.]
    Mr Terlarbi 1:30 p.m.
    Yes, that is what you are saying.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:30 p.m.
    Yes, that is what I have said.
    Mr Terlarbi 1:30 p.m.
    Please, mind your language.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    All right, Hon Member, you have --
    Mr Terlarbi 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Can you -- a second please.
    Hon Alhaji Muntaka?
    Alhaji Muntaka 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, with the greatest respect, I have realised that the debate is very interesting but we have a Paper to lay and because of the schedule, we would be grateful to crave your indulgence and that of the House and that of the Hon Minister for Education especially, because she is the senior, for the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance to just bow and lay these Papers so that we can continue, since it is just bowing.
    With the kind permission of my Hon Colleagues opposite.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Let us finish with this Hon Member, then we lay the Papers so that the Hon Deputy
    Minister for Finance can go. But the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance must be talking to the Hon Minister for Education but I have not seen a communication like that so that the senior --
    Hon Member, do not worry, let him finish.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, Universities compete for faculty and nobody would just migrate to a town or --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    When you say faculty, do you mean the people who will teach?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:30 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker. As faculty, that is how I refer to faculty too.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    No, refer to it in a manner that everybody would -- I am also faculty, if I may say that. You are saying that faculty is lecturers.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am also an adjunct faculty.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Pardon?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:30 p.m.
    I am also an adjunct faculty.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    So, you are talking about lecturers?
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:30 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Speaker, lecturers would only move to a place to teach if conditions in the town or city are favourable to them and I cited reasons the major Universities are in big cities and towns. You could even talk of University of Education in Winneba, which is a big town, I would say.
    I am saying that if you site a University with a campus at Donkorkrom, there is a higher likelihood that you would not attract the best faculty. Then you are in
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:30 p.m.


    the process of having a white elephant established somewhere and you are not getting the right faculty to go and teach there.

    So, I am at a loss as to why a University would come to the Eastern Region and Koforidua would be sidestepped. Why? Is it because the people of Koforidua normally vote for some other political party? Is that the reason?

    Mr Speaker, is that the consideration that went into the sighting of this University in Somanya?

    Mr Speaker, I think my point has been made. But if there are plans of having other campuses, then I would suggest to the Hon Minister that, as quickly as possible, we have to put in place measures to have a campus in Koforidua, which is the Regional capital and where I represent the people.

    So, over to you Hon Minister, the people of Koforidua look forward to having a campus of the Eastern Region --

    Thank you, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    We will suspend the debate and take item number 5 on the Order Paper.
    Item number 5, presentation of Papers.
    Minister for Finance?
    Alhaji Muntaka 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would want to crave your indulgence and that of the House for the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance to do that on behalf of the Hon Minister for Finance.
    Thank you very much.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Yes, Hon Member?
    Mr Awuah 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, as you rightly said at first, I thought the debate is becoming more interesting and we should not even curtail it or avoid the flow of the debate. But I also realised that the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance has been here throughout the whole day and must be given some opportunity to lay the Papers.
    So, I have no difficulty in her doing that.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Item 5, Presentation of Papers.
    Deputy Minister for Finance?
    PAPERS 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Thank you, Hon Deputy Minister.
    We go back to item number 7.
    Who wants to be recognised? You came here, so, I will recognise the Hon Minister.
    Hon Ayariga?
    Hon Dedei, I want to you to speak last. You have a special position today.
    Hon Ayariga? I will recognise you, Hon.
    Mr Mahama Ayariga (NDC -- Bawku Central) 1:30 p.m.
    Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for giving me the opportunity.
    I rise to support the Motion that the University of Environment and Sustainable Development Bill, 2014 be now read a second time.
    Mr Speaker, I think so much has already been said about the value of having Universities in every region so that it can enhance access. But it is not just about access, I think also that, we should see from the naming of the Universities that there is some effort to give them some thematic focus.
    And the thematic focus of each of and every one of these Universities that are being established, relate very often to the regional endowments and regional issues. So, we are hoping that by the time all these Universities are established in each of these regions, we would have the infrastructure to train the manpower to effectively address --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Hon Ayariga, the one in Brong Ahafo Region is the University --
    Mr Ayariga 1:30 p.m.
    University of Energy and Natural Resources.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    The Natural Resources, yes, but the Energy, the Western Region people thought that it would come but anyway, you continue.
    Mr Ayariga 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if you recall, one of the hydro-electric --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    I am not supposed to comment so, you ignore me.
    Mr Ayariga 1:30 p.m.
    One of the hydro-electric power plants is in the BrongAhafo Region.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    The Bui one?
    Mr Ayariga 1:30 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Which produces less than average of --
    Mr Ayariga 1:30 p.m.
    Which is producing energy.
    Mr Speaker, as I indicated, there is some relevance there in terms of the regional endowment.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Thank you.
    Mr Ayariga 1:30 p.m.
    Also, if you look at the other issues that the University would be dealing with. So, in terms of thematic focus, there is some effort to align the Universities to the regional endowment.
    I am particularly interested in this matter because of my portfolio as the Hon Minister for Science, Environment and Innovation. I have, since assuming office, realised that there are initiatives all over the place, dotted in different research institutions aimed at building capacity to deal with environmental matters.
    Indeed, just two days ago, I had a meeting with the Ministers of Environ- ment from the sub region and through a programme called West Africa Science Service Centre for Climate change and Land use (WASCAL), there is an attempt to establish a sub regionally-based sort of University, academic setup that trains experts in the environment, funded by the German Government with about fifty
    Mr Ayariga 1:30 p.m.
    million Euros, which is being exhausted by 2016 and we have to go to Germany to negotiate for additional resources.
    So, there is indeed, a need, if you look at the sector and the human resource base that is needed to man the sector, there is indeed, a need to have a University that has the capacity to train the human resource base to address environmental issues.
    I do agree that we should work hard or strive to keep the Universities focused in terms of their mandate.
    But it should also be noted that, there are institutions that are responsible for that. The National Council for Tertiary Education should be regulating the Universities and the National Accredita- tion Board should also be regulating the kind of programmes that the Universities are able to initiate. Ultimately, because they are employed by the State and we pay their salaries, it is often a problem duplicating courses in almost all the regions.
    Sometimes also, these days, there is a huge market for some programmes and very often before the Universities even request for accreditation to run a programme, they would have done their assessment and have realised that within that region, there is a market for that programme and even if they do not get some support from the State, very often the programme can pay for itself.
    Something like law being run in the Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology (KNUST), is based on an appreciation that, there are so many people in that part of the country who would want to be able to do law programmes and they do not all have to

    come to Accra to be able to access a proper law school in one of the best universities.

    So, very often, even though we all get concerned about what appears to be not focusing on their core areas, the drive to have additional programmes is driven by the market, which is good and not bad; driven by the need to create greater access, which is --
    rose
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Hon Abrah, do you have a point of order?
    Ms Abrah 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Member is just making comparisons of establishing some universities at a place where you would have the facilities and whatever is there.
    What we are discussing now is an agro- based university, a very practical one, so that if KNUST is establishing a law faculty due to proximity, it does not mean that when we establish the campus at Donkorkrom, we should allow people to establish a campus in Accra. This is agro- based and that is my point of correction.
    Mr Ayariga 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I did not get the drift of her argument but I believe there is a point there that she wants to make and I would take that on board in good faith.
    Mr Speaker, we should support the initiative, it is a good one and we in the Ministry of Environment, Science, Technology and Innovation welcome this initiative and would participate during the Consideration Stages in trying to really fine tune the objects and direction of the University to suit the needs of the Environment sector. There has been so much debate about sustainable develop- ment and I do not want to delve into that debate.
    However, I think that in this day and age, it is fashionable that when we are looking at the environment, we also consider the issue of sustainable development and that is why the name is Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment. That does not mean that once it is called the University of Environment and Sustainable Development, that it encompasses everything under this sun.
    Yes, everything has some element of the need for sustainability but in trying to develop courses and programmes, we still have the National Council for Tertiary Education and the National Accreditation Board to guide them to ensure that they do not seek to do everything from A to Z. So, I think that there would be some focus when this university is established.
    On this note, Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity and urge Hon Members to support the Motion for the Second Reading.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi, then Hon Quashigah.
    Hon Ayariga, I was just looking through the Constitution, the Directive Principles of State Policy and unless you have seen it, they never talked about ‘sustainable development'; they only say ‘development'. I do not know whether perhaps in 1992, sustainable development was not fashionable and that was why they did not use the term. Just look at Chapter 6, they never mentioned the words ‘sustainable development', unless I am wrong -- I was just looking at it here. Have you come across it in the Constitution?
    Mr Ayariga 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, that is true. If you look at the discourse of development in the 1980s and early 1990s, when we
    were talking about development, it was more about the underdeveloped countries catching up with the advanced economies and more about industrial development et cetera and the unbridled exploitation of natural resources in order to develop fast.
    If you would recall, in international jurisprudence, the right of nations to exploit their own natural resources et cetera, were matters that developed countries fought for, as part of international law discourse.
    As we move from the 1990s to present times, we are all beginning to be concerned about qualifying the nature of develop- ment which is making it sustainable.
    Clearly, in 1992 when we had our Constitution, it was not even in the interest of developing countries, or let me say developing countries did not perceive it to be in their interest to accept the mantra of sustainability because, they thought that the sustainability or qualifying development mandatorily, requiring that it should be sustainable, was going to hinder the pace of development, increase the cost of development and perhaps create more obstacles towards development.
    Today, we are all educated about the need to make it sustainable and we are all committed to making it sustainable and that is why the discourse is changing a bit.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Hon Ayariga, you did not disappoint me. I called you for a purpose and you did not disappoint me. Yes, Hon Dr Appiah-Kubi?
    Dr Kojo Appiah-Kubi (NPP -- Atwima Kwanwoma) 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, once again we are here debating on the need to establish a tertiary institution and dub it a university. It has now become common place in our system to always change every tertiary institution into a university --
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:40 p.m.
    It has now become fashionable to change almost all tertiary institutions into universities or dub any tertiary educational institution as a university. Is it the right way to go if we were to ask ourselves, that every tertiary institution should be converted into a university? I am a bit saddened that this Bill is being promoted by a professor who, in my opinion, should have probably resisted this attempt to create so many universities in the system without taking cognisance of the need for such tertiary institutions.
    Let us take this University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment as an example. It is quite strange that we are calling it a university, when we could have easily created that as a satellite campus of an existing university.
    What is the need for us to create an additional university when we have serious difficulties in running even those ones we have created already? Would it not have been better -- for example, KNUST to create a satellite campus in Donkorkrom? It could have been more cost effective and they could have shared the resources of KNUST instead of making it a full-fledged university.
    In any case, this university could have started right from the beginning as a full- fledged university instead of getting an affiliation with an existing university.
    Mr Ayariga 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, it is misleading to think that when a satellite campus of a university is created it is
    being cost effective. That is not the case. If one takes University for Development Studies (UDS), it has three campuses and each of them is running almost like a separate university. The only thing they share in common is the name and perhaps, there is one University Council.
    In terms of the administrative apparatus, one would have to replicate the infrastructure of every other place and yet for some universities for instance, he used the Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology (KNUST) in Kumasi, where a university is specific to a particular geographical location, sometimes it is not really the best to insist that we use satellite campuses.
    Why do we not give the university the autonomy so that they can have a clear vision and drive it? I do not think that cost is the issue here. If the Hon Member thinks that having separate independent universities would be more costly, I can assure him from my experience as the former Hon Deputy Minister for Education in charge of tertiary education that, that really is not necessarily beneficial if we have satellite universities.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:50 p.m.
    I would also want to assure the Hon Minister that having been a senior lecturer at the university -- [Interruption] -- skin pain -- [Laughter.] -- Having a satellite university campus is more cost effective.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Senior lecturer of what university?
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:50 p.m.
    University of Ghana.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    What Department?
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:50 p.m.
    I was even teaching at the Master's Level at the Economics Department of the University of Ghana. I was a Senior Research Fellow at the
    Institute of Statistical, Social and Economic Research (ISSER) as well. -- [Hear! Hear!] -- na skin pain wenyenso kyere sen? To wit “what is the meaning of this skin pain”?
    Alhaji Muntaka 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, my Hon Colleague is grossly misleading this House. Being a lecturer on a campus has nothing to do with how that university is run. One would not be able to tell us how much their budget is and how it is properly run. One only goes to the classroom, teaches and goes away and that is all one does as a lecturer and sometimes attend few meetings.
    He should ask the Hon Minister for Education who has been a Vice Chancellor before, then she would be able to tell him why she is leading this. But he being a lecturer, he only attends meetings and so Mr Speaker, he is grossly misleading the House. He should keep to his point and make his contributions without confusing us. In fact, Mr Speaker himself, I am told was a lecturer some time back. But he would admit that being a lecturer on campus does not mean that one would even know how that campus is run.
    Mr Speaker, he is misleading the House to create the impression that if the former Hon Deputy Minister is saying that he has been a Deputy Minister in charge of tertiary education and therefore has seen the numbers; it is not an easy thing to run a satellite campus, he should not just come in, but he should come with better argument. I do not think this is enough to convince this House that he knows the subject or the matter with regard to running a university.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, in any case, for a tertiary institution to be called a university, it needs to have a certain
    number of faculties. And the Professor can testify to that. When are we going to have that number of faculties for this university that we are debating about?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Hon Appiah Kubi, Hon Muntaka has made some very serious allegations. He said when one is a lecturer, one goes in and comes out, and he even wanted to draw me into the debate and said:
    “even Mr Speaker was a lecturer and he was just going in and coming out”.
    I thought you would defend us but -- [Laughter] -- I must confess that he is correct and this is because when I was lecturing I was just going to lecture. I was a part time lecturer and maybe that was why.
    Hon Member, continue, but defend us small.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:50 p.m.
    In any case, for his information, I was the Head of the Economics Department at ISSER -- [Interruption] -- [Hear! Hear!]
    Mr Speaker, let me give him a correct example. My Hon Colleague talked about the difficulty of attracting the --
    rose
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:50 p.m.
    Wonso wonte na se a, wope den biom? To wit would you not sit down, what are you looking for?-- [Laughter]
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Hon Member, what does that mean?
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:50 p.m.
    Ayariga, mommano Ayariga cough.To wit, give him Ayariga cough.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    First of all, he is Hon Ayariga. Secondly, what is the meaning of what you said? You must translate everything you say.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, because he did not understand me --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    I did not understand, what does it mean?
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I withdraw what I said.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Hon Member, continue.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:50 p.m.
    I just wanted to give us a typical example.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    All right, give us.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:50 p.m.
    I said, it would have been more cost-effective to have a satellite campus instead of creating a new university.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    All right, I would give him some more minutes. Hon Ayariga he is your friend and so allow him to flow.
    Mr Ayariga 1:50 p.m.
    No! Mr Speaker, he made a statement which needs to be corrected. He says that to qualify as a university, there must be a number of faculties and this is not true. The Hon Minister for Education is here and there is nothing in the law that says that for a university to be established, it should have a number of faculties. It is the quality of the programme that is sent to the National Accreditation Board which they accredit.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Hon Ayariga, the Hon Minister is here and I do not want to enter into -- But, I think I checked from the Accreditation Board and they said there must be a certain number of departments. I do not know but the Professors are here, I am just a simple part- time lecturer.
    Prof Fobih, just a clarification about that. To have a university, do you need a certain number of faculties and departments?
    Prof. Fobih 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, yes. For a faculty to be established, it needs to have a number of departments and for a new university to start, or a new faculty to be created, it also needs to have a number of faculties making up the university, not just one faculty and the number of departments forming a faculty as well.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Hon Ayariga, you and I are lawyers and so, let us do our law. I remember asking the Accreditation Board and they said that a certain number of departments are needed to establish a faculty and a certain number of faculties are also needed to have a university, otherwise, it would not be called a university. The Hon Minister is here and so, why are we debating.
    Hon Minister, this is important, can you assist us?
    Mr Ayariga 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, there are two ways by which a university is established-- [Interruption] -- It is important. Mr Speaker, asked a specific question. There are two ways a university is established.
    One, a university is established by an Act of Parliament as a university and the second way is for a university to be accredited --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Hon Ayariga, I believe you are correct.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi, continue.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:50 p.m.
    For the information of Hon Ayariga, even for the --
    Prof Fobih 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, a public university is established by an Act of Parliament but in doing so, Parliament has to ensure that the proper requirements are fulfilled otherwise, it will not be passed. That is why we have a Committee for Education looking at whatever comes here whether it fulfills the requirements before we approve of it. Otherwise, it cannot be an Act.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    I am sure that when the Hon Minister is winding up she would take this on board. To tell you the truth, I tend to --
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, for his information, for the university to gain international recognition, it needs to have at least, twelve faculties.
    Mr Speaker, my Hon Colleague talked about the difficulty for Donkokrom to be able to attract the high calibre of human resources that would be necessary to run the university --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Hon Member for --
    Mr Terlabi 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Member is informing the House and this is because faculties are just administrative arrangements. If we talk about the kind of nomenclature we have in Ghana -- [Interruption] -- I have also taught in the university for some time. [Interruption.]
    Mr Speaker, the fact is that even in KNUST, at a point in time, we had what we called the collegian system and it was an administrative arrangement.
    Mr Speaker, what is important is that, one needs a certain minimum requirement to establish a department for one to run the course—[Interruption]-- Getting 12
    faculties. A very renowned University,like the Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology (KNUST) has less than 12 faculties —
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    Hon Member, thank you.
    Mr Terlabi 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, please, let me name them for record purposes. Until the collegiate system, we had the Faculty of Science, the Faculty of Engineering —
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    Hon Members, when an Hon Member is on a point of order, the Member whom he is raising the point of order against should not stand.
    Mr Terlabi 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, what I am saying is that, we have a renowned University, KNUST which until recently when faculties were merged to form colleges during the collegiate system, we had less than 12 faculties. So, if the Hon Member is saying that we need 12 faculties to get recognised as an international university, that is not correct.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    Thank you very much, Hon Member for Lower Manya Krobo.I have directed the Minister to address this issue when she is winding- up, so please, let us move on. The Minister will address this issue. — It is very important for public consumption to clearly understand what a university is.
    In the days of Aristotle and so on, a university was defined as a place where Law and Philosophy was taught. It has changed, so it is important that today, the Minister tells us what qualifies to be a university.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, for a university to be able to thrive, subsist and do —
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    Hon Members, having regard to the Business of the House, I direct that we Sit outside the stipulated time in accordance with Standing Order 40 (3).
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, for a university to subsist, it needs resources, finances and money. Let us ask ourselves, how far we have resourced the Universities that we have created over the last decade. It is very pathetic.
    Mr Speaker, if one looks at even the Universities that we have created, they are in dire straights, that is why we need to ask ourselves why most of these universities that we are creating are diverting into other sectors. They are diverting into other sectors because they cannot subsist on their own.
    They divert into social science areas because that is the area they can get resources and finances. That is why we need to be very careful, because we want to create a University of Natural Science— How do we even— [Interruption]— Please, do not confuse me.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    Hon Appiah-Kubi, formerly of the Faculty of Economics of the University of Ghana, do not allow them to confuse you, I have confidence in you.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 2 p.m.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker. The whole problem that we are facing now is, if we look at the universities that we have created in the last decade, most of them have serious financial difficulties and as a result they cannot attract the right calibre of human resources that are needed to do proper training and research.
    Mr Speaker, secondly, even the infrastructure that are required for these universities to function as a training institution are not available and it is very
    when we already have the structures, why do we not make use of the existing facilities in order to expand our system?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    Hon Member, what did he say?
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, he said, even the existing universities in Ghana right now are having difficulties getting sufficient funding. The existing ones which are matured are facing financial difficulties at this time and we are saying that we should go beyond that and create additional new universities and even widen the cost of education in Ghana. What is the budget of education in Ghana here? I do not think we need new universities.
    In my opinion, it could have been far better and more cost-effective, if the new ones could have shared the resources of the existing ones if created, as satellite campuses of existing ones. We are now going to recruit new Vice Chancellors, Boards of Directors, et cetera and these are all costs. Where is the money going to come from even when the University of Ghana (Legon) is having financial difficulties, let alone a university in Somanya or Donkorkrom?

    ironic that we are creating another university which will need substantial resources to operate at this time of the year when this country is in such a financial mess.

    Mr Speaker, I do not think we need a full-fledged university at this moment. It could have been a satellite campus of an existing university and that could have been more cost effective. Let us look at what this university is going to do. It is going to train natural science students, but are we promoting, even at the lower level, enough students for this university to absolve? No, we are not doing that.

    Mr Mathias Asoma Puozaa— On a point of order, Mr Speaker, it is unusual of me to make such interruptions, but my Hon Colleague is going too far and I think that he is misleading the House.

    Mr Speaker, there is no existing University on earth that does not need continuous funding. I am a product of the University of Edinburgh and that is one of the oldest universities in the United Kingdom (UK). Up to date, they still send out circulars to old students, asking for funding in order to open new faculties and produce other things to assist the university. So, funding will always be a necessity in any establishment.

    If we are here and people are coming in from all over the world to establish universities, they are getting students and managing them well, why can we not start
    Mr Ahmed Ibrahim 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, as a matter of fact, I would not like us to go on that trend. The records are there that whenever a new university is being established some people will criticise it by saying that it is propaganda. He went that way but I wanted to excuse him. But to go to the extent of saying that who would like to go and stay at Donkorkrom or Somanya, I would like him to withdraw that portion.
    Even his side alone cannot carry that stigma that we were doing propaganda.
    In the future when the University is established, you would not be able to go with that tag that when the University of Environment and Sustainable Develop- ment was going to be established, your side was said that it was a propaganda.
    Mr Speaker, you may allow him to withdraw that portion. We cannot carry this. They did it to the University of Ghana, the Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology, University of Cape Coast and to the University for Development Studies and they are now doing it to the University of Environment and Sustainable Development too. May he withdraw that portion?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Hon Member, withdraw that portion and proceed.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, what I said was that --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Hon Member, I asked you to withdraw that.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I withdraw that statement.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Thank you and conclude.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Hon Appiah-Kubi, thank you very much for your contribution.
    Mr Richard M. Quashigah (NDC -- Keta) 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to associate myself with the Motion.
    It is obvious that education is crucially important for the forward march of our nation and without adequate and appropriate education, this nation cannot talk about a decent future. The meaning of the name of the University as was aptly captured by an Hon Member determines its focus. It is very much apt and appropriate in the sense that this nation has ecological challenges.
    This nation obviously will need some line of thought to be able to deal with the environmental and ecological challenges that we have.
    It has been indicated, that sustainable development means meeting the needs of the present, without compromising the ability of the future generation to meet their own expectations and needs. Therefore, the thought that went into the determination of this new University is very apt and appropriate and we must laud those behind it.
    For that matter, we must commend the Minister for Education, as well as the President for coming up with this idea which will necessarily impact positively on not just today but also the future of our nation.
    Mr Speaker, as a nation, we have a lot of environmental problems.When you go into the mining sector it appears we do
    not seem to have our acts right in dealing with the challenges in that area. Again, when you go into the managing of sanitation, we have serious problems.
    So, if we have a very focused University that will lend itself to thinking through and analysing the problems of the environment among others, I am sure in future, we are not going to have the kind of situation we have today, where if it rains then the country is in serious problem; where for instance our environment cannot be managed the way it ought to be managed. So, it is very appropriate that we have a university of this nature.
    rose
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Hon Member for Manhyia North?
    Mr Collins Owusu-Amankwah 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I heard my Hon Colleague say that due to challenges we are going through, it seems we are not thinking, so I want to ask of him whether as a people, we are not thinking. For me, I think the problem has nothing to do with establishing a university before we can deal with the issues at hand. We have bye- laws, we have rules and regulations when it comes to environmental challenges. So I would want him to reconcile these two
    positions whether without the establish- ment of the University of Environment and Sustainable Development, there is no way we can deal with some of the challenges we are going through as a country.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Hon Quashigah, did you say we are not thinking?
    Mr Quashigah 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, clearly, that cannot be true. There is no way I would say we are not thinking. That will include my very self and I think that is a gross deception by my Hon Colleague on the other side.
    What I indicated was that the implementation of this University will necessarily enable us to harmonise our environmental challenges in that this is a university that will be focused on thinking through the challenges of our environ- ment and dealing with the ecological challenges we have and the situation we have in the mining areas and all that.
    This is a university that will be making on constant basis, analysis of the situation that we have and I think that it will provide us with the key to unlock some of the challenges that we have in these areas. So that cannot be equated to saying that the people of Ghana are not thinking. That obviously is gross misrepresentation and it is a calculated intention of my Hon Colleague on the other side to mislead this House and bring me into disrepute.
    Mr Speaker, if you would permit me to continue.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker is being flabbergasted by your -- so, Hon Quashigah, in conclusion?
    Mr Quashigah 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    Continue.
    Mr Quashigah 2:10 p.m.
    Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Speaker, we will always have challenges and as has been indicated by the Chairman of the Committee on Education, Mr Mathias Puozaa, even well established universities all over the world have challenges and every human endeavour without challenges is not worth living.
    Therefore, challenges will necessitate us to think and be able to deal with the problems we have. As much as we continue to deal with the daily challenges, even with our institutions, we would have the opportunity of getting somewhere.

    Mr Speaker, I am unduly being heckled by very senior Colleagues on the other side, such as Hon O. B. Amoah.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:10 p.m.
    It is parliamentary. Heckling is part of parliamentary procedures so do not single people out, all right?
    Mr Quashigah 2:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, thank you for your advice.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    Hon Member for Manhyia North, do you have a point of order?
    Mr Owusu-Amankwah 2:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, is he saying that without the establishment of this particular university, the people of Donkorkrom would not get development? Is that his position?
    In his presentation, he was emphatic that with the establishment of this facility people there are going to have access to good roads. So, I would want to know, if

    without this establishment, are the people of Donkorkrom not entitled to good roads.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    Hon Quashigah, you would do well to be winding up. We cannot be here forever. You should wind up in a manner that would not raise any more points of order. I know you can do it; I have confidence in you.
    Mr Quashigah 2:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, obviously, even in urban areas where we have, adequate road networks, some industries are also established and that catalyses the increase in the facilities to those areas.
    Therefore, it cannot be true that I said establishing a university at the Afram Plains would necessarily mean that is the only way the needed development can get to the area. That is obviously not true.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    Thank you very much, Hon Quashigah.
    Hon Didieye, you would make the final contribution before the Hon Minister winds up.
    Mr Emmanuel A. Didieye (NDC -- Afram Plains North) 2:20 p.m.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the Motion for the Second reading of the Bill on the establishment of the University of Environment and Sustainable Development, of which the Afram Plains, Donkorkrom, which is my constituency is a beneficiary. [Hear! Hear!]
    Mr Speaker, as the name implies, the University's focus would be on environ- ment and sustainable development. Ghana has experienced the effects of global warming by environmental activities such as deforestation, mining, galamsey, small-scale mining and others.
    Afram Plains has experienced the effects of Fulani herdsmen and other things. So, if this University is established, as the name implies --
    Mr Speaker, let me go to the objectives found in the Committee's Report. It says 2:20 p.m.
    “The Bill seeks to establish the University of Environment and Sustainable Development to provide higher education and promote research and dissemina- tion of knowledge in the fields of environment, agro-business and sustainable development.”
    Mr Owusu-Amankwah 2:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would want to verify from Hon Didieye whether the establishment of the University is going to stop Fulani herdsmen from operating in the area.
    Mr Didieye 2:20 p.m.
    My Hon Friend is in a rush; I would conclude. He is rushing because all these are environmental issues. Cattle grazing can have environmental effects. If he traces the history of desertification, that is it and that is for his education or information.
    Mr Speaker, the University is going to provide research and dissemination of information. As it is believed that knowledge is power and education is the best means to reduce poverty; everybody knows that Afram Plains is a deprived area.
    In Ghana today, because we have few public universities, our Senior High School (SHS) graduates have to go through a lot of screening before they gain admission : shortlisting, interviews and other things. I think when we establish a public university, the cost involved in education there would reduce.
    Let us go to the observations found in the Committee's Report.
    rose
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    Hon O. B. Amoah, do you have a point of order?
    Mr Osei Bonsu Amoah 2:20 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Speaker, the Hon Colleague is implying that when the university sited in Donkorkrom, which is in his constituency, Afram Plains, with all intents and purposes, the requirements for admission to that University would not be as stringent and thorough as other existing public universities. Is he implying that when it comes to this university, standards would be lowered and that requirements for admission would also be lowered?
    Mr Didieye 2:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, let me correct him.

    Under the observations of the Committee, it says that the university would help address environmental challenges confronting the nation.

    Under observation 6.4:

    “The Committee observed that the establishment of the University of Environment and Sustainable
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:20 p.m.
    Hon Member, do not let them distract you.
    Mr Didieye 2:20 p.m.
    Under Acknowledgment, in the Committee's Report:
    “The Committee held meetings with stakeholders to examine the Bill in detail. The Committee is grateful to the following for their inputs…”
    This is what -- [Interruption] -- I am saying. Various entities like the National Accreditation Board (NAB), the National Council for Tertiary Education (NCTE) and the University Teachers Association of Ghana, (UTAG) all made their inputs.
    So, there is a way, and it is right that when this University is established in the Afram Plains, it would yield positive results.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:30 p.m.
    I want to confer with Leadership. I would ask the Minority before I come to the Majority Leadership.
    Yes, Minority what is your pleasure?
    Mr Ignatius Baffour Awuah (NPP-- Sunyani West) 2:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I remember when it was 2.00 o'clock you announced that Sitting would go beyond the required period. I think it was for the purposes of enriching the debate that is why you extended the time, and if Hon K. T. Hammond is here, I think he should be allowed to take part in the debate.
    Alhaji Muntaka 2:30 p.m.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker, with the greatest respect, usually we would not object to this. But Mr Speaker, as you know any time we have to have extended sitting, we normally prepare and provide lunch to be able to take care of Hon Members who are here.
    Secondly, the Hon Minister for Education, with the greatest respect, has been in the House right from 10.00 o'clock and it is only fair; and knowing very well that the House would not go beyond 2.00 o'clock, she had programmed herself and other activities and in fairness, because our state should not be seen as an Hon Minister for Education not respecting time.
    Others are waiting for her and we want to plead that with the number of contributions made we should just allow
    her to wind up so that we can call it a day -- [Intertruption] -- Definitely, we would have another opportunity when we come to the Consideration Stage, so that those Hon Members who did not get the opportunity to contribute would have an opportunity to be heard.
    So Mr Speaker, we would be grateful if you could end the debate now and allow the Hon Minister to respond to the few comments so that we would end it. We would be very grateful.
    rose
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:30 p.m.
    Hon Muntaka, I think and I stand-- Hon K. T. Hammond, could you resume your seat please.
    I stand corrected, but after the Motion was moved and the Chairman associated himself with it, the first Member I called was Hon Cletus Avoka. I should have gone to the Hon Ranking Member because the tradition of this House when it comes to speaking to a matter is that, we take one from either side of the House. Then at a certain point, I took two here because the Hon Minister was going -- I took another two from the opposite side.
    So if Hon Didieye has spoken, I would take one more from this Side and then I would take the Hon Minister; because I started from this side I made a mistake, I should have started from the other side. So you would see that, more people have spoken from this side than the other side. I would not take you and the Hon K.T. Hammond. I would take one person and the two of you must decide who is going to contribute and then the Hon Minister. I apologise to the Hon Minister for keeping her for so long. --
    Mr Awuah 2:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, thank you for your ruling. I beg to support the Motion being debated. [Pause.] In supporting the Motion for the establishment of the University of Environment and Sustain- able Development in the Eastern Region, I think it is a heavenly thing and it must be supported by all. But even in doing that, we would still have to bring to the attention of the Hon Minister some observations we have made and which also need to be taken into consideration.
    Mr Speaker, within the past few years, we have seen the establishment of so many universities. I quite remember in my own region, the University of Energy and Natural Resources was established in Sunyani. We also had the establishment of the University of Health and Allied Sciences (UHAS) in the Volta Region.
    Mr Speaker, if you go to Sunyani now, for four years that the University of Energy and Natural Resources has been in operation, there has not been much improvement in infrastructure. The current campus of the university used to be a faculty of Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology (KNUST), which was ceded for the establishment of this University.
    The people of Brong Ahafo would never forgive the Government for foregoing the faculty and then using the same facilities for the establishment for a new University. What the people of the region would have expected was the establishment of a new University to complement that which was already existing. That happened because we were not ready with the requisite infrastructure to start a new University.
    Mr Speaker, just this week, in the newspapers, it came out that land owners of the place where the UHAS has been established are ganging up to
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:30 p.m.
    Yes, second Deputy Majority Chief Whip?
    Mr Ahmed Ibrahim 2:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity.
    I rise on a point of order, that my Hon Colleague on the other side is grossly misleading this House, that the University of Energy and Natural Resources and the University of Health and Allied Sciences are inadequately resourced. The way he put it compared to what the President came to tell us in this House and I want to quote, it is not true. On page 14 of the State of the Nation Address paragraph 3:
    “…Work on the main campus of the University of Health and Allied Sciences (UHAS), located at Sokode near Ho is almost complete. The University has also admitted its first batch of medical students. At the University of Energy and Natural Resources, the first batch of agriculture students have been admitted to the Dormaa campus. Expansion works are continuing at the main campus in Sunyani”.
    Mr Speaker, the faculty he is talking about as the faculty that has been used to establish the UENR, was it located at Dormaa or at Sunyani? May he clarify that.
    Mr Awuah 2:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would not waste my time arguing with him because one of the main campuses of the UENR is supposed to be in my own village Nsuatre. A large tract of land has been acquired and not even clearing on that land has been done and the Chairman of the Education Committee would bear witness with what I am saying.
    Mr Speaker, as I said, I would not want to debate that. But what I would say before his intervention was that we should avoid

    the situation where we would link universities to regions because when we do that, we even limit the expansion of those universities.

    For instance, if we say that the University of Energy and Natural Resources is a Brong Ahafo University and it happens that there should be a faculty outside the region, how would we term that?

    Now, we are considering the University of Environment and Sustainable Development and we are limiting it to Eastern Region. What happens if there is a decision to open a faculty outside the Eastern Region? Would that lose its original focus or what? Maybe that is one thing I want us to look at --
    rose
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 p.m.
    Hon Quarshigah, do you have a point of Order?
    Mr Quashigah 2:40 p.m.
    Rightly so, Mr Speaker.
    Listening to the Hon Deputy Minority Whip, he is inferring that the intention of putting universities in various region is that, those regions own the universities. I do not think that is the intention. I want to believe strongly and I am very convinced that, the intention is just to have universities spread across the geographic regions of Ghana.
    But not necessarily to say that the University of Health and Allied Sciences belongs to the people of the Volta Region or the University of Energy and Natural Resources belongs to the people of Brong Ahafo region and for which reason one would say that it creates a difficulty in
    Mr Awuah 2:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I would want to believe that, we are saying the same thing from different angles. My point is that the emphasis should be on the functions of the University but not where the University is located. That is the point I am trying to raise. The emphasis should be on the functions the University is going to perform but not necessarily where it is going to be located.
    But I also want to caution that even as we seek to establish these universities, we should also try as much as possible to make sure, as it was intimated by my Hon Colleague, that we get the necessary faculties; people who are going to work in this University, especially, the academic staff. Mr Speaker, I am aware that some of these newly established universities are competing with the private sector, especially, when it comes to recruiting qualified staff.
    We must start as a matter of urgency, to train prospective lecturers in some of the existing universities so that as these universities take off, they can switch from where they are to this new University.
    I am saying so because there is also a programme, as it was mentioned by the President in his State of the Nation Address, to turn all the polytechnics into technical universities. So, certainly, the market for qualified staff is going to be very tough. We may have to train some from within and outside the country and
    Mr Awuah 2:40 p.m.
    the search should not be limited to only those within but especially, Ghanaian professionals who are living outside and working at other places. We can only do so by also making sure that the conditions of service of the university staff is enhanced, so that, at least, it would be attractive enough to be able to lure them to make up the faculty.
    In the case of the University of Environment and Sustainable Development, it is going to require a lot to attract lecturers. Why am I saying so? I say so because the lecturers would have to do a lot of sacrifice.
    Yes, there has been this argument of why not establish the University at the regional capital instead of Donkorkrom and Somanya? Mr Speaker, the fact of the matter is that, the cost of attracting a lecturer to Koforidua would not be as high as the cost of attracting the same lecturer to Donkorkrom or Somanya.
    This is because, the lecturer would not just be seeking his own interest but the interest of his entire family, especially, his children where they would go to school and the facilities that they would enjoy.
    These are things that they would look out for and it would only take perhaps extra remuneration and extra facilities to be able to lure people to such areas.
    Before I end, I would also want to plead with the Hon Minister that it is about time we also looked at the way we name our universities. In fact, for most of our universities, we have been naming them after programmes that they run. I seriously think that it is one thing we have to look at. For instance, we have renowned Ghanaians who have excelled in life.
    I do not want to be tempted to mention names but a person like Kofi Annan, he is a renowned person worldwide. Nothing stops us from, perhaps, naming a university after him. We have people who
    have excelled in private life that we can look up to and say, let us name this university after them so that it becomes even a motivation for others to be selfless and serve the nation.

    It would be a very nice name to have in the future.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 p.m.
    I thought you were going to mention my name.
    You can conclude.
    Mr Awuah 2:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, before I conclude, I would want to plead with Government that, we devote enough resources to these universities that we are establishing. We should not just wait for the Ghana Education Trust Fund (GETFund) formula before we allocate resources for these universities. If it is possible, the Ministry together with the Ministry of Finance should source for funding for some of these universities. Otherwise, if we want to wait for the universities to develop on their own, or perhaps to develop based on the meagre budgetary allocations which are made on annual basis, perhaps, we will not reach anywhere.
    Finally, let us see the universities as public goods. We should avoid the commercialisation of the universities. That is where I disagree with the earlier contributors. Of late, the tendency has
    been that, let us allow the universities to generate their own income and in trying to do that, they commercialise most of their activities to the detriment of qualified Ghanaians who may not be able to afford to attend some of these universities.
    Mr Speaker, I just want to end here and say that I support the establishment of the university.
    Thank you.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2:40 p.m.
    Hon Minister for Education?
    Minister for Education (Prof Naana Jane Opoku-Agyemang) 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, please allow me to thank this House. The Ministry feels encouraged by such active participation in this discussion. We feel encouraged by the high interest you have maintained and the good suggestions that you have made. We also want to acknowledge everybody who has brought us this far and we implore everybody's support in the rest of the journey forward.
    Mr Speaker, I would like to make very general comments because there have been very detailed suggestions and we would like to respond to each of them as we fashion an even firmer document that would lead to our policies in rolling out this University.
    But believe me, what we are trying to do at the Ministry is to look back on the existing universities to find out where the challenges are and to ensure that in moving forward, we are reducing as many of the challenges as possible. And we are doing this in all the phases of education as we move along.
    For example, we are constructing new secondary schools -- Just to digress and with your permission. We would want to
    find out what the issues are in the existing secondary schools even with land. That being the case, in the past, how was land acquired? How should land be acquired now? What should be the land use so that we avoid encroachment, et cetera? We are bringing similar thoughts into the tertiary terrain.
    I note the issue of funding. We are very much aware of the challenges that existing State universities face. Of course, we are not abandoning them in favour of new universities, even though new univer- sities might need larger amount of money. We have our eyes firmly placed on the challenges that exist in the new universities. And as my elder Brother said, universities have a very long life.
    We have all been to a few places; and the University of Harvard -- 1636, the University of Yale had 314 years this year, Oxford, et cetera and University of Development Studies (UDS). So, we have a very young history of university education in the country. So, if one places it in perspective, then we could even appreciate what all Governments in the past have done to bring us this far.
    I also appreciate and wish that, you had everything; that universities grow very slowly and surely to ensure that we grow our programmes in such a way that we could feed new programmes. Sometimes, there is every need for this one. [Interruption] -- I know he has spoken against it and I would come to him in a minute.
    So the key issue of funding and lack of funding are very real. As we get funding from the Government and from partnership with alumina who play critical roles and the private sector -- They are very important. University education also by our Constitution is a shared responsibility. We have policies regarding funding at all the levels and we are sticking to these interventions.
    Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:50 p.m.
    On a point of order. Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister said the House would be receiving a number of Bills from her Ministry. Specifically, she said; “the House would be receiving a number of Bills from my Ministry”, is it her Ministry or from the Ministry of Education? [Laughter.]
    Prof. Opoku-Agyemang 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I actually agree with him, in which case whatever that goes wrong in education should not be placed at my doorsteps.
    But having said that, I would also want to raise one or two issues which I think are important. It has to do with non- Ghanaian students, which we call foreign students. We have regulations regarding even the number of students that could be admitted. Currently, it is about five per cent and really, no university has even been able to reach that five per cent and I am talking about the State run universities.
    Let us also remember that Ghanaians also study abroad and so in our dialogue and in our language, to ensure that we are not eliminating them as they could also eliminate, we have very clear policy and guidelines regarding this. So, it cannot be just about money. It is about many other things and I would also want to ensure that so many of our own children -- A lot of them are done by reciprocal arrangement, and that is what it is.
    But a lot more of the issue that has being raised --
    Mr Hammond 12:50 p.m.
    On a point of order. Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister raised the issue of foreign students and the issue about their admission and the fact that we should not shackle them out or we do not have to shut the door. I thought she was going to make a clear statement, not on the policy as such and not a lengthy
    one, but the clarification of that point is what some of us would want to understand. What is it about foreign students? It is not so much about the percentage intake, but what it is about?
    This is because she talked about -- We also travel outside and study and all that, but there are specific rules about when we travel, what we pay and the conditions and all that. Is she drawing a comparison or what?
    So, I would like her to clarify that one.
    Prof. Opoku-Agyemang 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, a lot of these, as my Hon Colleague knows very well, are by reciprocal agreement. They are by exchange of students and faculties and researchers and that is how their students end up here, and sometimes our students end up there.
    There are also quota -- Yes, we need to talk about the percentages, because we need to understand why they are here. We are Members of the Association of Commonwealth Universities (ACU), we are Members of the African Union (AU), we are members of all these international organisations that regulate even the intake of foreign students and we all abide by them.
    That is why I am saying that we should not single them out as if they are doing something wrong. We have very clear guidelines on how these things are done and that is how --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    Hon Minister, please, move on.
    Hon K.T. Hammond was a foreign student in England. I think he is happy with the answer.
    Prof. Opoku-Agyemang 12:50 p.m.
    Thank you.
    I think that a lot more of the issues would be management issues.
    rose
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    Hon K.T.Hammond, I will not recognise you.
    Prof. Opoku-Agyemang 12:50 p.m.
    We would not micro-manage the universities, but we would advise, we would work with them, we would direct and we would support, so that knowing all of these, it would be very important for us to be very mindful about who it is that we are putting at the helm of affairs.
    So, I would like to urge the continua- tion of the interest shown, I would like to implore maintenance of the dialogue established even as the University moves forward, as it is established, as it has its own predictable challenges -- It is only normal -- But that we would all try to co- operate in reducing the challenges to ensure that it is well established and that it is serving the people of this country very well.
    We are erring on the side of the youth. When we say that we have a youthful population, I believe every Ministry would have its own way of looking at it. In the Ministry of Education, it means a lot to us. It is good that we have a lot of youthful people, but maybe, it is also better that we pay attention to who it is that they are becoming, what training they have and what opportunities they have.
    Even if we do not have jobs for them now, it is the kind of training we give them that would enable them to create the opportunities for themselves and for others.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    Thank you very much.
    That brings us to the end of the debate. I am tempted to ask a question, but I will resist the temptation. The temptation is --
    Alhaji Muntaka 12:50 p.m.
    May God help you to resist the temptation.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    Would you help me, Hon Muntaka? Did you say God should help me to resist the
    temptation? This is because the temptation is the question -- The debate about what is in the university, the faculties and so on, but I am sure the Hon Minister would find time to educate all of us at another time.
    Question put and Motion agreed to.
    The University of Environment and Sustainable Development Bill was accordingly read a Second time.
    ADJOURNMNENT 12:50 p.m.
  • The House was adjourned at 3.00 p.m. till Thursday, 4th June, 2015 at 10.00 a.m.