Debates of 22 Jul 2019

MR SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:38 a.m.
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:38 a.m.
Mr Speaker 10:38 a.m.
Hon Members, Correction of Votes and Proceedings of Friday, 19th July, 2019.
Pages 1 -- 9
Mr Samuel Abdulai Jabanyite 10:38 a.m.
Mr Speaker, on page 9, the item numbered 7 (ii) reads:
“By leave of the House, the following Question was withdrawn by the Hon Member in whose name the Question stood”.
I think it should rather be: “By leave of the House, a Question was withdrawn”. I say this because if we
say ‘following', it means we expected to have several Questions that were to be withdrawn. But in this case, it is just one Question, so the word, ‘following', should not have been used.
Thank you.
Mr Speaker 10:38 a.m.
Thank you very much.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 10:38 a.m.
Mr Speaker, in my case, I do not know whether it is an addition. On page 9, if the Hon Deputy Minority Leader should recall, with the Hon Majority Leader, initially, the Hon Minister for Finance was programmed to come to the House today, 22nd July, 2019 for the Mid-Year Budget Review, but in reporting we made a formal announcement that it would rather be 29th of this month.
My view would be that it should have appeared on page 9. But as I said, if we just want to say Business of the House, there is a significant event relative to the Business of the House which is the Hon Minister for Finance appearing before Parliament pursuant to the Public Financial Management Act on the Mid-Year Budget Review and the fact that the date was changed from 22nd to 29th July, 2019.
Thank you.
Mr Speaker 10:38 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Minority Leader.
Page 10 -- 12
rose
Mr Speaker 10:38 a.m.
Yes, Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 10:38 a.m.
Mr Speaker, on page 9, I think two matters were raised. The first one refers to item listed as 7 (ii):
“By leave of the House, the following Question was withdrawn by the Hon Member in whose name the Question stood”.
The Hon Colleague who rose up gave an indication that if you have the construct, ‘the following Question', then, necessarily, it refers to a series of Questions. Mr Speaker, he could not be more wrong. That appro- priately captures what happened; ‘the following Question'. So, ‘following' -- that is the Question that follows after this; it need not be multiples of Questions. So, Mr Speaker, I believe my Hon Colleague got it wrong.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Minority Leader also raised an issue in respect
of the appearance of the Hon Minister for Finance in the House. Mr Speaker, I think it was contained in the Business of the House as read by the Hon Deputy Minority Leader. And that is captured as item numbered 6. It was not anything that we later on voted on to be captured as a separate item. This is Votes and Proceedings and it is captured in it. In fact, it is assumed in the item numbered 6.
Mr Speaker 10:38 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Majority Leader.
The Votes and Proceedings of Friday, 19th July, 2019 as corrected, is hereby admitted as the true record of proceedings.
Hon Members, we also have Official Report dated 25th June, 2019. Any corrections, please?
rose
Mr Speaker 10:38 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member?
Mr Ras Mubarak 10:38 a.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
In Column 1783, paragraph 2, line 6, ‘horsebacks' should read “horse- back”.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker 10:38 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Member.
Yes, Hon Okudzeto Ablakwa?
Mr Samuel Okudzeto Ablakwa 10:38 a.m.
I am most grateful, Mr Speaker.
Column 1775, paragraph 2; the Police to civilian ratio. The ‘civilian, has been left absent, giving a different meaning. So, if that could be inserted.
So, we have here, “ . . . out to one police to 848” and then leave it at that. Then we could say that “ . . . above the one police to 500” and leave it at that. However, we are talking about the civilian population, so if that could be corrected in paragraph 2, Column
1775.
Mr Speaker 10:38 a.m.
Hon Members, any further corrections? [Pause]
The Official Report of 25th June, 2019 as corrected, be hereby adopted as the true record of proceedings.
Hon Members, there is a Statement which stands in the name of Hon Barbara Asher Ayisi.
Hon Deputy Majority Leader, there was an understanding that this would be read on her behalf, so what is happening?
Ms Sarah A. Safo 10:38 a.m.
Mr Speaker, Hon Nana Akua Owusu Afriyie would read the said Statement on behalf of Hon Barbara Asher Ayisi.
STATEMENTS 10:38 a.m.
Mr Speaker 10:59 a.m.
Thank you very much, Hon Member, for this well researched Statement.
Yes, Hon Mubarak?
Mr Ras Mubarak (NDC -- Kumbungu) 10:59 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I would like to commend the Hon Member who made the Statement for a very thought-provoking Statement on such an important issue.
Mr Speaker, in contributing to this, I would like to draw our attention to two issues. One, at what age should we discuss comprehensive sexuality with our children? This is something we should all advert our minds to. I
know there have been a lot of journals in respect of the most appropriate age at which children should be taught about sexuality. In bringing finality to a debate on the appropriateness of sex education, we should not lose sight of the appropriate age to discuss it.
Mr Speaker, the second issue I would want to talk about in relation to the teaching of comprehensive sexuality is that, as a country, sexuality should be within the context of our African setting. I say this because I know elsewhere in the world, especially in Europe and America, people have a completely twisted view of what it is.
As a country, we need to take a firm decision and position on what constitutes sexuality and to make it a point that any other definition of it other than sex between a man and a woman is abhorrent.
Mr Speaker, as far as the Ghanaian culture and setting is concerned, sex is between a man and a woman; anything else is alien to our culture and tradition. So we should not entertain any twisted definition of what it is.
Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity.
Mr Ebenezer Nii Narh Nartey (NPP -- Ablekuma Central) 10:59 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I would want to commend
the Hon Member who made the Statement and also draw the attention of all of us -- I could say that almost all of us in this Chamber are parents.
Mr Speaker, when we were in school, we were given sexual education, but in our schools today, the attention has been shifted, because people think that when sexual education is undertaken, the youth would be exposed to certain acts that would tarnish their image and their reputations.
Mr Speaker, I could honestly say that children in the senior and junior high schools even seemed to know better than their parents in terms of sex education, so if we think that we could hide this from them, we would end up creating a lot of problems for them.
When students are ready to write their Basic Education Certificate Examination (BECE) or West African Senior School Certificate Examination (WASSCE), it would be realised that some of these girls were impregnated by either their colleagues or other people in the community. This is because of the absence of sexual education. So, the Ministry of Education should see how best teachers could start giving sexual education in our schools from primary one to senior high school.
Mr Speaker, we also need to educate the young ones in the
Mrs Mavis Hawa Koomson (NPP -- Awutu Senya East) 10:59 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the Statement.
Mr Speaker, it is true that sex education is not taken seriously in our schools, especially, in the public schools. As alluded to by the Hon Member who made the Statement, teachers feel it is difficult to introduce it to the pupils at that age; however, it is very important. Pupils from class three and above could receive lessons on sexual education so that they would know the dangers of engaging in it.
Mr Speaker, some teachers prepare their lesson notes on that topic for the head teachers to mark alright but they do not teach it. To emphasise on sex education, headteachers must make sure that when teachers prepare the lesson notes for that topic, they teach it. If we do not teach sex education in our schools, I am afraid, we cannot control the rate of teenage pregnancy in the country, especially, in the Central Region. So, sex education should be
notable because if it is done, it could solve or reduce teenage pregnancy in the girl child division.
Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity.
Mr Speaker 11:09 a.m.
I thank you very much, Hon Member, for your appreciation.
Yes, Hon Member for Ho West
Mr Emmanuel K. Bedzrah (NDC -- Ho West) 11:09 a.m.
I thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to add my voice to the Statement made by our Hon Colleague.
Mr Speaker, the Bible, as we all know, says in the book of Proverbs 22 11:09 a.m.
6 that, “Train up a child in the way he should go; and when he is old, he will not depart from it.” From the King James Version (KJV), “thou sayeth the word of God”.
Mr Speaker, as parents, we have a cardinal divine duty; when we give birth, God expects us to train up our children or those whom He has entrusted in our care in the fear of God so that when they grow up, they would not depart from those teachings.
Mr Speaker, one of the teachings of God, be it Qur'an or in Christendom
is to fear God; and one of the things that we know in fearing God is adherence to the principles of morality which has to do with the fact that one must attain a marriageable age and be properly married before one engages in sex.
Mr Speaker, if we train our children, nephews, nieces and all our constituents - When we go to schools and educate them about sex and also teach them the ways of the Lord, I believe that teenage pregnancies, sexual abuses and immoral things would reduce in this country.
Mr Speaker, let us take this as a fight. Let us take this as men and women who have been elected by our people to fight this immoral act and teach our younger ones that sex education is important and that one cannot engage in sex when he or she is not ready for it.
Mr Speaker, we all know that our children, as a result of the food that they eat, are sexually active from a very young age. If we sit back and do not talk to them to be aware of their body and sexual activeness, we would have problems with our children who may engage in sexual activities at the time they are not supposed to.
Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you for the opportunity.
Mr Haruna Iddrisu (NDC -- Tamale South) 11:09 a.m.
Mr Speaker, let me commend the Hon Member who made the Statement for bringing the matter of sexuality to the fore of Parliament.
Mr Speaker, if we have to get our reproductive health and adolescent needs well, as a country, we would need to prioritise reproductive health and adolescent education in our basic and secondary educational institutions. That would mean that, teachers specifically trained for this purpose would dedicate themselves to it.
Mr Speaker, we are suffering from what the sociologists describe as “wither away of our cultural and traditional values”. In some cultures and societies, if one did not attain a certain age and even go through a certain cultural process, sex was not acceptable. It does not seem to be the case for many cultures in Ghana today. Promiscuity is the order of the day. It is not even surprising that, in some instances, teachers themselves and members of the community in which the educational institutions are sited take advantage of these young girls.
Mr Speaker, we have endea- voured as a country to punish it with some legislation and the establishment of the Domestic Violence and Victims Support Unit (DOVVSU). But in many cases, when the offence is committed, we go along pleading for the matter to be managed quietly and not to be dealt with in accordance with our penal code.
Mr Speaker, once again, I would want to thank the Hon Member who made the Statement.
Mr Speaker 11:09 a.m.
Thank you very much.
Any comments from the Majority Leadership?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:09 a.m.
Mr Speaker, no comments.
Mr Speaker 11:09 a.m.
Hon Members, that ends Statement time.
At the Commencement of Public Business -- item listed 4, Presentation of Papers.
Hon Majority Leader, the item listed 4 (a)by the Hon Minister for Environment, Science, Technology and Innovation?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:09 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I would want to lay the
document, the Annual Statement by the Audit Committee of the Ministry of Environment, Science, Technology and Innovation for the year 2018 on behalf of the Hon Minister.
Mr Speaker 11:09 a.m.
Hon Majority Leader, you may.
PAPERS 11:09 a.m.
Mr Speaker 11:09 a.m.
Hon Members, item numbered 5; Presentation and First Reading of Bills.
Item numbered 5(a); Ghana Meteorological Agency (Amendment) Bill, 2019 by the Hon Minister for Communications?
rose
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 11:19 a.m.
Mr Speaker, you have referred the Bill to the Committee on Communications but the Long Title was not read out by the Table Office.
Mr Speaker 11:19 a.m.
Table Office?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 11:19 a.m.
Mr Speaker, clearly, from the Long Title, the Bill has financial implications -- [Laughter] --
Mr Speaker 11:19 a.m.
Yes, Hon Member?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 11:19 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Long Title, as read out, indicates the Bill has financial implications and so, I beg to apply that the Finance Committee joins the Committee on Communications to consider --
Mr Speaker 11:19 a.m.
Any views thereon? This is because with any financial implications matter, then the Finance Committee would be on every --
Mr Frederick Opare-Ansah 11:19 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am not too sure this House has ever considered a Bill that does not have financial implications.
Indeed, that is one of the challenges that makes it difficult for Hon Members to present private Members Bill because of the Constitutional provisions, and because almost every Bill that this
House considers does have financial implications.
So, I am not sure that the Hon Chairman of the Finance Committee is saying that every Bill has to be jointly referred to the relevant Committee and the Finance Committee.
Mr Speaker 11:19 a.m.
Otherwise, they will be part of every Bill.
Yes, Hon Chairman?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 11:19 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I withdraw my application. [Laughter] --
Mr Speaker 11:19 a.m.
Thank you very much.
Application duly withdrawn by leave of the House.
Item numbered 5(b) by the Hon Minister for Education?
BILLS -- FIRST READING 11:19 a.m.
Mr Speaker 11:19 a.m.
Item numbered 6 -- Motion.
Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:19 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Motion listed as item numbered 6 is now to be taken. But before then, I want to apply to you in respect of a Third Reading, and to come under Standing Order 130(1) and move that the Bill does pass through a Second Consideration Stage in respect to just one particular part, that is the memorandum of the Bill.
Mr Speaker, I so move.
Mr Speaker 11:19 a.m.
Hon Minority Leader?
Mr Iddrisu 11:19 a.m.
Mr Speaker, there are times that, as ‘Chairman One' just demonstrated -- he knows the rules. The Hon Majority Leader is not the Hon Attorney-General and Minister for Justice; the sponsor and the one shepherding the Bill, as gazetted in accordance with article 106, is the learned Hon Attorney-General and Minister for Justice.
Mr Speaker, even before he invokes Standing Order 130(1), we must have seen the Hon Attorney- General and Minister for Justice wanting to rise to move for the Third Reading before he arrests it.

A few weeks back, he took me on, on this same matter and if he knows the rules, he should behave appropriately. Mr Speaker, is he the Hon Attorney-General and Minister for Justice? He must apply for the leave of the Speaker and the House to do so.

Mr Speaker, the last time when I rose on a matter of Third Reading, he said he wanted to see me up before. In his case, who rose before he started to arrest it under Standing Order

130(1)?

So, what is sauce for the goose, must be sauce for the gander. He should follow the procedure. Let us see the Hon Attorney-General and Minister for Justice rise to do the Third Reading and then the Hon Majority Leader could rise and invoke Standing Order 130(1), as he demanded of me a few weeks ago. He should respect the procedures of this House.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:19 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am not, neither do I purport or need to be the Hon Attorney- General and Minister for Justice to move this Motion.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Minority Leader should apprise himself of the Standing Orders. Let me read Standing Order 130(1) for his own elucidation:
“If any Member desires to delete or amend a provision contained in a Bill which has passed through the Considera- tion Stage, or to introduce any new provision to it, he may, at any time before a Member rises
…”
Mr Speaker, nobody needs to rise. Let him read the content of it and appreciate the import of Standing Order 130(1). I know what I am doing, let him contradict me on a procedure. [Laughter] --
Mr Speaker 11:19 a.m.
I think we had walked this pathway before. The right for a Second Consideration rests with any Hon Member; and so shall we make progress?
Hon Minority Leader, I thought that there was some clear understanding of this particular matter before we came to the House. Let us make progress.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:19 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I appeal to you to put the Question on the Motion that I have moved so that it does pass through a Second Consideration Stage. When we have done so, I would go to the next stage.
Mr Speaker 11:19 a.m.
Who seconds it?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:19 a.m.
Mr Speaker, at the level of considering a Bill, we do not necessarily need any person to second the Motion.
Mr Speaker 11:19 a.m.
Shall we put the Question?
Yes, Hon Fuseini?
Alhaji Inusah Fuseini (NDC- Tamale Central) 11:19 a.m.
Mr Speaker, in fact, this is a procedural Motion and we need not second it. However, in the absence of the Hon Chairman, I beg to second the Motion. This is so that we see what he has.
Question put and Motion agreed to.
BILLS -- SECOND 11:29 a.m.
CONSIDERATION STAGE 11:29 a.m.
Mr Osei Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:29 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I rise and come under Standing Order 130 (3) to move that after what we have done to the body of the Bill, we realised that the Explanatory Memorandum accompanying the Bill suffers some defect. So, we could treat the Memorandum just to suit what we have done. This is not about a policy change or overthrowing the principle
Mr Speaker 11:29 a.m.
Hon Minority Leader?
Mr Haruna Iddrisu 11:29 a.m.
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.
I see the Hon Majority Leader consulting with his working committee, and I acknowledge the fact that we would want to see this particular Bill passed by Parliament with the Explanatory Memorandum. But for us to note that for parliamentary debate, even though I do not have ruling of the Supreme Court, which I would give to the Table Office, that parliamentary debates is
Mr Speaker 11:29 a.m.
Subject to that, Hon Minority Leader, you are amenable.
Shall we proceed?
Alhaji Inusah A. B. Fuseini 11:29 a.m.
Mr Speaker, it is indeed true that a lot of work has gone into the Vigilantism and Related Offences Bill, 2019. It is a fact that when the Explanatory Memorandum to the Vigilantism and Related Offences Bill, 2019 was presented to this House and referred to your Committee, we found that it did not meet the requirement of article 106 in very significant details.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Majority Leader constituted an informal group which he called “the winnowing group”, and after looking at the Explanatory Memorandum, we came to the conclusion that we needed to remedy the shortfall in the Explanatory
Memorandum. We felt constrained, because by the Standing Orders we cannot be seen to be amending the Explanatory Memorandum. Indeed, the work that has gone into the elucidation of the Explanatory Memorandum and the task of how to remedy the defect and the compelling reason why we need to pass this Vigilantism and Related Offences Bill are all in the new Explanatory Memorandum. We appreciate the power of the Rt Hon Speaker in making an order for the new matters that have come up to be incorporated in the Memorandum.
Mr Speaker, that being so, we support the basis for the new substitution of the Explanatory Memorandum to capture the essence of the Bill. If this is a conspiracy, all of us must join -- [Laughter] -- It is a good conspiracy.
Thank you.
Mr Speaker 11:29 a.m.
Yes, Hon First Deputy Speaker?
Mr Joseph Osei-Owusu 11:29 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Majority Leader is giving me signal that I should not -- I do not intend to join the conspiracy. My only worry is to introduce into our legislative lexicon a group called “winnowing group”. There is no such group known to our Standing Orders. If my Hon
Friend, the Hon Ranking Member of the Committee supports --
Mr Speaker 11:29 a.m.
That is why the group has not been labelled “winnowing committee” [Laughter].
Mr Joseph Osei-Owusu 11:29 a.m.
Mr Speaker, it is exactly so.
I rather would want him to say he supports the effort of the Hon Majority Leader to have the matters agreed on to be captured in the Explanatory Memorandum. Indeed, we are masters of our rules, and sometimes, it means that we should not necessarily follow exactly the letter of the rule.
In this circumstance, I support the arrangement being done in order to make sure that the Memorandum captures the essence of the Bill. So, I support the application, except that we do not know any “winnowing group”.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Speaker 11:29 a.m.
That would end the Second Consideration Stage.
Hon Majority Leader, where do we go from here?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:29 a.m.
Mr Speaker, having done this, it is now time for the Hon Attorney-General
and Minister for Justice to move the Motion listed as item numbered 6. I know she is otherwise engaged so I would want to apply to the House to allow the Hon Minister responsible for Communications to move the Motion on behalf of the Hon Attorney- General and Minister for Justice. That is captured as item numbered 6. Perhaps, in the process, she might relate to her own travails.
Mr Governs Kwame Agbodza 11:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, Standing Order 131(1) says:
“A Bill having passed through the Consideration Stage, the Third Reading shall not be taken until at least twenty-four hours
…”
We just finished the Second Consideration Stage.
Under which Standing Order is the Hon Leader asking the Hon Minister to move the Third Reading.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Member may read fully what is captured under Standing Order 131(1) and he would appreciate the point.
Mr Agbodza 11:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, Order 131(1) reads:
Mr Speaker 11:39 a.m.
Hon Majority Leader, the Hon Member has quoted what he is relying on. If you are so inclined you may want to quote other sections.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Member would know that there are conventions and practices of this House. In any event, he elected to apply himself to only Order 131(1) and I was urging him to continue to the conclusion but he decided not to go to the conclusion.
Mr Speaker, the Bill is listed for Third Reading and before the Motion
is moved, this intervention is moved. It does not stop the Third Reading.
Mr Speaker, so I was urging him to go through it. It is listed and the Second Consideration Stage does not stop the process. Unless he has anything that he has discovered, like Mungo Park, to tell this House, which runs contrary to this. He does not want to be a David Livingstone, so we could go on.
Mr Agbodza 11:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I read Order 131(1) and I was hoping that the Hon Majority Leader would go on to read anything that gives him the leeway to ignore Order 131(1), which suggests that it must be 24 hours. So, until he tells me which other Standing Order he is using, I insist that it must be 24 hours before the Third Reading is moved.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I see several people rise on the flanks, so I would let them come in first before the demolition gang settles in.
Dr Mark Assibey-Yeboah 11:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, Order 131(1), which the Hon Member for Adaklu read says:
“A Bill having passed through the Consideration Stage…”
As the Majority Leader indicated, this Bill just passed through a Second
Consideration Stage so the Standing Order is silent on what happens when a Bill goes through a Second Consideration Stage. So I would refer him to Orders 5 and 6. With your permission, they read:
(5) “In case of doubt these Orders shall be interpreted by Mr Speaker as he deems fit.”
(6) “In all cases not provided for in these Orders Mr Speaker shall make provisions as he deems fit.”
Mr Speaker, what he referred to has not been provided for in these Orders, so we are in your hands.
Mr Frederick Opare-Ansah 11:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, this House is guided by its rules, practices and also precedents. Just as the Hon Chairman of the Finance Committee stated, the Standing Orders do not provide explicitly for the issue of Second Consideration Stage in terms of giving notice to the Motion for Third Reading. We should address our minds to the fact that before we get to the Second Consideration Stage, the issue of the Third Reading being put on notice would have matured already before we get to the Second Consideration Stage and that is why
it talks about substituting those words for the Third Reading of the Second Consideration.
Mr Speaker, the practice in this House has been that anytime we go through a Second Consideration Stage, the House proceeds immediately to the Third Reading. In all matters where the House deems fit that it would want to continue to the Third Reading, nothing has stopped this House in the past from continuing in that direction. So, it is my position that based on precedents and supported by the fact that Mr Speaker would not depart from this practice and the rulings of his predecessors in this regard, I am sure we would be on a sure footing to proceed with the Third Reading.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker 11:39 a.m.
Hon Members, as of this morning, there had been an advertisement for the Third Reading. The Second Consideration is only a window of opportunity to correct that which we deem necessary and then proceed. We may want to address our minds to this.
Hon Minority Leader, I hope you are with us.
Mr Iddrisu 11:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, it is appropriate that the Third Reading is
Mr Speaker 11:39 a.m.
Hon Majority Leader, is there anything else to add?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I said we should listen to our Hon Colleagues. We have listened to them and just so that the issue would be put beyond doubt, this Bill was introduced to this House under a certificate of urgency and when the Committee met, they so determined that it must be treated as urgent.
Mr Speaker, Order 131(4) provides 11:39 a.m.
“A motion for the Third Reading of a Bill shall not be made on the same day as the Second Reading, except as provided in Order 119 (Urgent Bills).”
Mr Speaker, the fact that this Bill was not considered in a day does not derogate from the fact that it was certified by the Committee as an Urgent Bill. So, my Hon Colleague has no reason to get up and say that we are breaching any Order at all in the Standing Orders and that is why I
was urging him to read the entirety of that provision.
Mr Speaker, I see him nodding his head and I believe that he is convinced and persuaded -- If he is not convinced and persuaded, as he is now shaking his head, I believe the House can leave him behind.
Mr Speaker 11:39 a.m.
Hon Members, it is quite clear that by way of precedence and the flexibility allowed in these matters and the fact that the Third Reading has been duly advertised and we only applied our window of opportunity to enhance the Bill further, I would put the Question.
BILLS -- THIRD READING 11:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker 11:49 a.m.
Hon Members, item listed 7, Motion.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 11:49 a.m.
Mr Speaker, we could now deal with item numbered 10.
Mr Speaker 11:49 a.m.
The Hon First Deputy Speaker would take the Chair for the Consideration Stage.

Item listed 10, Statistics Bill, 2018, at the Consideration Stage.
BILLS -- CONSIDERATION 11:49 a.m.
STAGE 11:49 a.m.
Chairman of the Committee (Dr Mark Assibey-Yeboah) 11:49 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 6, delete and insert the following:
“Functions of the Board
6. The Board shall, in particular, formulate the policy of the Service to
(a) promote the effective use of statistics and stimulate research activities in applied statistics;
(b) provide guidance to the Government Statistician and the Government on the direction of and priorities for
official statistics that include advice on the improvement, extension and co-ordination of statistical services pro- vided for public purposes in the country; and
(c) further the object of the Service.”
The clause as captured in the Bill included functions which do not directly relate to the Board. Some of them are management functions, so what is contained in today's Order Paper is the redrafted clause 6.
Mr Speaker 11:49 a.m.
Hon Chairman, the essence of this being?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 11:49 a.m.
That clause 6, as captured in the Bill, be deleted and then the amendment on the Order Paper be inserted.
Mr Speaker 11:49 a.m.
But why?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 11:49 a.m.
Mr Speaker, so that (d), (e), and (f) which related to welfare of staff and issues like that would be deleted from the Bill. These are management functions, not functions of the Board.
So we deleted clause 6 as captured in the Bill and we are now introducing a new clause 6 on the Order Paper. This is neater, and these are actually functions that the Board deals with.
Mr Speaker 11:49 a.m.
Should policy formulation not be the principal function of Hon Ministers? That is the issue now.
11: 58 a.m. --
MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:49 a.m.
Hon Member for Yapei/Kusawgu?
Mr John Jinapor 12:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Majority Leader's statement is succinct, and I am not rising to contravene him per se, but just to give some explanation.
Even on the objective, it depends on the level, so if we were to take, for instance, the economics of finance, it would depend on whether we are dealing at the macro or the micro level.
So when it comes to policy formulation, a Minister might formulate general policy for that sector, but when it comes to the specific organisation, like the Statistical Service as we are saying, the Board would formulate policy specifically in relation to that organisation. Management would then pick that policy and begin to implement it.
So I do not think that there is a major problem if we say that the
Board would formulate policy. That policy would only be at which level? Is it only at the level of that organisation?

I would also support the Hon Minority Leader's intervention that we retain the original rendition, because paragraph (c) is also critical:

“…ensure that the Service collects and compiles socio- economic data on the country and disseminates it to the relevant government agencies and other users.”

As I said, data is the new oil. Even those who develop applications and software need that raw data to be able to develop applications that meet our current challenges; without access to that data, they are blind. So, the Service should be able to collect the data and make it available to anyone who requires such data for their own purposes. So, paragraph (c) is important.
Mr Speaker, paragraph (e) 12:09 p.m.
“…provide direction and guidance on staffing requirements
for sectoral statistical activities at the national, regional and district levels...”
We all talk about disaggregation of data; gender disaggregation of data. Having data for particular sectors, so that Government policies can better be targeted to address the issues or the picture that data reveals.
We also have to focus on mining and analysing that data, not just the raw collection of the data, because the data by itself is like a mineral in the ground. If it is not analysed and processed, it is literally worthless.
So, there is the need to work in collaboration with other users who may also have specialised skills outside the skills that the Statistical Service has. So, paragraphs (c) and (e) are critical and I would urge the Hon Chairman of the Committee to look at his amendment again.
I would also propose that the policy should be formulated in conjunction with the Minister, who would ensure that it is aligned with the policy direction of the Executive.
Some Members — rose —
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:09 p.m.
Leaders, wait. Let me listen to - Yes, Hon Jabanyite has been on his feet for some time.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:09 p.m.
Hon Yaw Boamah, have you changed your mind? If you want to make a point do so because from your Side, I will go to the Minority Side.
Mr Patrick Yaw Boamah 12:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would refer you to clause 39 in support of what the Minister for Communications alluded to:
“39(1) The Service may conduct other censuses and surveys as directed by the Board.
(2) Any entity other than the Service that wishes to conduct a census at the national level or in a delimited part of the country, shall submit a census proposal to the Government Statistician for consideration and approval by the Board.”
Mr Speaker, this is Government policy being championed by Government. I can see the Hon Minister for Finance's name on the page numbered (vii). It presupposes that Government has taken a firm decision and it protects this Bill to suppose what it seeks to achieve within the Statistical Service.
Mr Speaker, the Board on its own can formulate policy on specific issues when it comes to staff remuneration, promotions, et cetera. But the overall objective of Government is to see to it that this Bill before us is not diluted in anyway. So, I think we must allow clause 6 to stand -- [Interruption] -- Yes. And also --
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that the arguments proffered by the Hon Chairman of the Committee and the Hon Minister must not be allowed to stand; both are totally out of sync in the Constitution.
The Constitution is very clear; it is not the Minister's responsibility. It is seen in article 186(3):
“The Statistical Service Board may prescribe the manner in which data may be compiled and kept by any person or authority in Ghana.”
It is a function of the Board; it is not the function of any Minister. Why is it so? It is so because the Statistical Service is a creation of the Constitution just like the Bank of Ghana; it is not a statutory creation. So, when we go to the Bank of Ghana Act of 2002 (Act 612) it is the Board -- not in consultation with anybody -- which formulates policy for the achievement of the object of the Act. Why is it so? It is to safeguard the independence -- [Interruption] -- Was that what you said? I did not hear you. [Laughter] -- [Interruption] -- So, I am supporting him.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:09 p.m.
It is all right; he supports you.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:09 p.m.
So, I think that I will leave it at the point of the Board formulating the policy. I think that the whole Bill that we are considering today is to effectuate article 186(3) of the 1992 C onstitution. Nowhere is the manner in which the Board may prescribe the
collection, compilation of data and the person or authority to keep the data prescribed in the law. We do not have it anywhere in the laws of this Republic. The Bill seeks to expand on the method that the Board may perform the function. So it is not within the purview of the Minister; it is within the purview of the Board.
Secondly, Mr Speaker, I have seen the Hon Chairman is trying to expunge or delete clause 6 in its entirety. Clause 6(1) and (2), the proposed amendment to clause 6, delete. It means we will delete paragraphs 1 and 2. But paragraph 2 is very important.
With your permission, I beg to read paragraph 2 of clause 6:
“The Board shall advise the Government on the harmonisation of the activities of the departments responsible for data collection.”
Is it the view of the Hon Chairman that this function of the Board is not important and that it should be deleted?
Hon Chairman of the Finance Committee? --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:09 p.m.
Hon Member, address me. I do not want you to deal with him.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I see that, again, there is a problem.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:09 p.m.
Yes, Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker—
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:09 p.m.
Well, let me listen to the Hon Minority Leader first, then you could come in.
Mr Iddrisu 12:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, probably, to put it in context, I believe that at Second Reading, we could have done what was appropriate. I
recall that that morning I had to go to Tamale for a funeral.
Mr Speaker, may I refer you to article 190 of the Constitution? It reads 12:09 p.m.
“The Public Services”.
At article 190(1), one would see Statistical Service listed as part of the Public Services of Ghana. Mr Speaker, please, take note. Then, when we come to article 186 which is what we are now dealing with by virtue of Hon Chairman's amendment and as Hon Inusah Fuseini indicated, Mr Speaker, this is not an ordinary board which we are creating by an Act of Parliament. This is a Board contemplated by the Constitution and provided for in articles 185 and 186 combined.
Mr Speaker, note again, that in article 186 (3) of the Constitution, we are dealing with the functions of the Board; and what the Constitution has imposed as a function, we are ignoring or we are about to ignore.
Article 106(3) reads -- for whatever reason, the clause 6 must necessarily include article 186(3). It reads:
“The Statistical Service Board may prescribe the manner in
which data may be completed and kept by any person or authority in Ghana”.
Mr Speaker, when it comes to the Bill itself, it reads 12:09 p.m.
“Statistics Bill, 2018.” The Long Title reads:
“An Act to establish the Statistical Service”.
It is not even in tandem with Statistical Bill. So, Mr Speaker, I think that the Hon Majority Leader should guide us. Maybe, he must refer this back for policy re-consideration and guidance to keep it consistent with the provisions of the Constitution. Other than that we risk walking on a matter which could be declared as unconstitutional.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu; Mr Speaker, I initially applied we should be careful in entrusting the Board alone with the formulation of policy. I still stand by that decision. The reason is -- and the Hon Member for Tamale Central raised issues I would want to compare with what happens at the Bank of Ghana.
Mr Speaker, there appears to be a problem with the constitutional formulation on what is intended to be the Statistical Service. If we look at the provision on the Bank of Ghana,
article 183(2), it charges the Bank of Ghana with the responsibilities, not the Governor of the Bank of Ghana.
“The Bank of Ghana shall—
(a) promote and maintain the stability of the currency…
(b) be the sole custodian of State funds of Ghana…
(c) encourage and promote economic development…”
And it is to do other things not inconsistence with this article—The Bank of Ghana.
Mr Speaker, if we go to the Electoral Commission, the charge of the Commission is not left in the hands of the chairperson of the Commission. It is by the Commission where these functions are defined. Mr Speaker this one is different --[Interruptions]--
Mr Speaker, let us look at article 106, the functions of the Statistical Service --[Interruptions]--
Mr Speaker, article 186 -- The Hon Muntaka just returned.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:09 p.m.
No, Hon Majority Leader, you said article 106. That is what you said.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:09 p.m.
Article 106? Mr Speaker, it was a slip of the jaw --[Laughter]-- Mr Speaker, when we look at article 186 (2), what is otherwise supposed to be the functions of the service, they are left in the hands of the Government Statistician; one person. -- [Interruption] -- just remove the words in parenthesis. It will read as follows:
“The Government Statistician, under the supervision of the Statistical Service Board, shall be responsible for the collection, compilation, analysis and publication of socio-economic data…”
That is what it means. He is given the charge; he is only to do this with the supervision of the Board. So, I am telling you that the subclause (2) or (3) are not the same. Please read it carefully. It is the Government Statistician who is charged with these functions even though I agree that rather, it should have been the Service that should be charged with that function.
Mr Speaker, I told the Hon Member for Asawase, that he just came in ; he should read it well. You would appreciate it that the Constitution has given this charge to the Government Statistician which I
think is wrong. It should have been given to the —
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:09 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, we are not working on amending the Constitution; now so we should be guided by the Constitution, even if it is wrong. If we think it should be amended, we know the steps to take. But for now, that is what there is.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that is what I am drawing attention to. And when my Hon Colleague cited the case of the Bank of Ghana, I said, we cannot compare the two strictly because the charge is with the Bank of Ghana. The charge is with the National Commission on Civic Education (NCCE), not the Chairperson of the NCCE; the charge is with the Electoral Commission and the functions of the Commission are given to the Commission. So, in this case, it should have been given to the Service, and not the Government Statistician, who is just the head.
But the Constitution now says that these functions should be performed by the Government Statistician under the supervision of the Board and I am worried. So, the charge is given to the Government Statistician and the Board only supervises what he does. That is the difficulty that I have.
So, let us think through this, whether what we are doing, is in sync with the Constitution because the compilation; what the Constitution has now given to the Government Statistician, we are saying it should be done by the Service. And I have some fundamental disagreement even with that so let us look at it well and see whether what we are doing is consistent with the Constitution.
Mr Speaker, that is what I am saying.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:09 p.m.
Yes, Hon Minister for Communications?
Mrs Ursula Owusu-Ekuful 12:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, just a small point. In the Constitution, article 186(3) also uses the permissive ‘may', not the mandatory ‘shall', in that the Statistical Services Board may prescribe the manner in which data may be compiled and kept by any person or authority in Ghana, unlike the provision guiding the Bank of Ghana's operations or the Electoral Commission's operations.
So, in crafting this legislation, let us be mindful of the fact that, the responsibility has been imposed on the Government Statistician; an indivi- dual, albeit working in conjunction with the Board, and not the Statistical
Service itself. So, if we have an individual who decides to go off on a frolic of his own and may not be in a position of being controlled by his Board, then, we have a problem on our hands.
That is why it is important that the Hon Minister would also be in a position to provide policy direction for the way and manner in which that function is performed. So, let us look at it carefully—
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:09 p.m.
I think the Hon Minister should be guided in choosing who the Government Statistician is because his powers are enormous under the Constitution.
Mrs Owusu-Ekuful 12:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, people change, you would never know. And we have a few examples where seeming innocuous individuals turned out to be mavericks. So, let us be guided by our own history in crafting the legislation so that we do not live to rue the day subsequently.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:09 p.m.
Yes, Hon Minority Chief Whip?
Alhaji Muntaka 12:29 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I disagree with the understanding the Hon Majority Leader gave to article
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:29 p.m.
Hon Members, let me put these across and you could consider them.
I look at it this way; it is intended that the Statistical Service would design the mode of collecting data and then it becomes a guide to government after government. So, no policy direction would change from left to right, as has been with our other national policies, if you look at it from that point of view.
The need to place it under any Minister may not be necessary because the statistics should be independent and should be used by other sides and any government that comes without influencing the data that
has been collected. So, I think that in crafting this Bill, we should look at it from that point of view, as the Constitution, in my view, wants to make the head of the Statistical Service independent of any political influences.
Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:29 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am guided by what you have said. If you look at the Bank of Ghana Act, 2002 (Act 612) it is supposed to be independent but a role has been created for the Minister for Finance. The reason is, for purposes of responding to Parliament, it is the Minister for Finance who has to do that.
The Statistical Service would not have any authority to be here to respond to issues. It is the Minister who should come and do it. That is the reason. However, it is not to influence it and that is why I chose my words carefully and said that could be done in consultation with the Minister. Consulting a Minister does not mean that whatever the Minister tells you, you should swallow it lock, stock and barrel. It does not mean that at all.
Mr Speaker, in any event, if there is a policy that is thrown out there by the Board, which does not fit into Government policy, what becomes of
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:29 p.m.
Statistics is not about policy.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:29 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:29 p.m.
Whatever policy there is, is only within the Service. When it comes to national policy, there is a political authority and that is the way I look at it.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:29 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that is why I disagree with my Hon Colleagues when they say that the Board determines the general policy because of the formulation of article 185(2) and article 185(3). It has nothing to do with that at all. Article 185(3) is just of the same order as article 187(4) which deals with the Auditor-General. It prescribes the manner in which data may be compiled.
Just like the Auditor-General, for instance, would prescribe the form in which the books of accounts should be kept, it does not have to do with policy. Looking at article 187 (4), it is the same intent that is expressed in article 185 (3) and has nothing to do with policy.
Mr Suhiyini Alhassan Sayibu 12:39 p.m.
Mr Speaker, to some extent I agree with the concerns that have been raised by the Hon Majority Leader. This is because of the history of the Statistical Service. It is on record that it was after the Second World War that we first thought of having something in that form and that is when the Government Statistician was appointed in 1948. Its purpose was to serve the Government of the day.
Now, over the period, the role of the Government Statistician has been expanded. In 1961, for example, we had the Central Bureau of Statistics when his role was expanded, then the PNDC Law 135 set up the Statistical Service Board. After that, if you consider the framers of the 1992 Constitution, given the history of the Service, in my view, they wanted to still clothe the Government Statistician with the historical service that it had always played.

It also wanted to cure a situation where he would be the only person to run the institution - article 186(2) was, perhaps, contemplated, and that is where the wording is important. It says:

“The Government Statistician, under the supervision of the Statistical Service Board…''

It is not even “in collaboration” or “in consultation”, but under the supervision of the Board. In this case, it does not leave the role of collecting and analysing data in the hands of the statistician, but it is to be done under the supervision of the Board. The historical role was cured by article 186(2) as enshrined in the 1992 Constitution.

Mr Speaker, in furtherance to this, we must, in contributing to this Bill, be guided by the need to insulate, as you have said, the Service from governmental control, so that even after one government changes from the other, there would still be some reliability in terms of the data that institution would collect.

Mr Speaker, I also agree with the argument that we must not contemplate the idea to have it placed under the supervision of a Ministry. The supervision that the Board gives the Government Statistician should be enough as stated in the Constitution, so that if a government's interest should be secured, it could be done in the consideration of appointment to the Board but not in such a way that it would compromise the integrity and neutrality of the service.
Mr Kwaku Agyeman Kwarteng 12:39 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the kind of Statistical Service that the nation wants to create is very clear in the Constitution. It says, “the Government Statistician''. No matter how we look at it, they are supposed to produce statistics, first and foremost, for the purposes of Government policy. This is because in the recent past, we have had people question the information put out by the Statistical Service because it is feared that information may have been influenced by some people in political
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:39 p.m.
Hon Deputy Minister, with regard to its supervision, the Constitution says specifically that it shall be supervised by the Board. So why do you want another Minister to supervise them?
Mr Kwarteng 12:39 p.m.
Mr Speaker, supervision and policy direction are different things. Supervision is in terms of how they would go about their functions; but in the public service, the general policy direction of Government is not something that the Statistical Service could be insulated from. It is the reason in all the public service institutions that have been set up, policy matters would be decided by the Government through the Hon Minister. We should not mix policy direction with supervision in the way they would deliver on their mandate.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:39 p.m.
Hon Deputy Minister for Finance, let us be clear. Which policy direction are you talking about? Is it the policy direction in the performance of its functions or what? This is because the Statistical Service could only perform its functions. So if there is any policy direction, it could only relate to the operations and performance of its function. Is that what we want to give to the Hon Minister?
Mr Kwarteng 12:39 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in matters of recruitment, they would need, for instance, financial clearance. There is a general Government policy that recruitment is frozen for the public sector, as we witnessed recently. Is the Board of the Statistical Service able to issue a policy between now
and next year that they would recruit 1000 more people? There are critical policy matters that govern the workings of the Statistical Service, which cannot --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:39 p.m.
That is the general policy for the Public Service and Government expen- diture. The Statistical Service would not share that with the Hon Minister for Finance. If it says it needs 100 more people, the Hon Minister could say he has decided not to spend more than a particular amount.
So out of what has been requested, a percentage could be given. That is not supervising their work; it is implementing policy on recruitment or expenditure. We should not confuse that with what is intended in this Bill - that is a general economic and expenditure policy, which is not part of the Statistical Service policy. Even though that policy would affect its recruitment policy, it does not mean that the Hon Minister would supervise them.
Mr Kwarteng 12:39 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am sorry; if I communicated the impression that the supervision has to be done by the Hon Minister, then it is wrong. The Bill makes reference to:
“The Board shall, in particular, formulate the policy of the Service…''
That is where I think it should not be “the Board”. The Board could supervise, as the Constitution requires, but there could even be a policy that is specifically directed at the Statistical Service. If a public service operates in Ghana and it says that the Board must decide how the institution should be, not in technical ways but in every way, then they are not part of the country.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:39 p.m.
Hon Deputy Minister for Finance, these are my challenges. They are already constitutional bodies as we call them - the Auditor-General, the Electoral Commission and the National Commission for Civic Education (NCCE). The policies of these bodies are formulated and implemented by them even though they are affected by budget allocations. The NCCE is always crying -- they would have wished to have more people, but they have budget limitations.
Nobody has said that the Ministry of Finance directs them policywise because they do not give them as much as they want. What we all want is limited by what is in the kitty. For example, with the Electoral
Mr Agbodza 12:49 p.m.
Mr Speaker, when the Hon Majority Leader, explained the basis of this Bill, it was quite clear that the Government did not intend to create a Statistical Service that is controlled by the Executive.
I am a bit confused by the rendition of the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance that when we have a Statistical Service that cannot be controlled by the Government in some circumstances, then they are not in the country.
Mr Speaker, is it the case that the Government cannot channel its policy through Boards, which is what happens? Government policies are channelled through Boards.
Mr Speaker, is it not also the case that -- In fact, in this case, my fear is that he even went as far as saying that they would recruit 1000 people. He is already giving me indication that their ability as a government to support the Statistical Service would depend on what they see as government policy. They are supposed to provide them with the requisite resources to carry out their mandate, as provided for in the Constitution.
Mr Speaker, I do not see anywhere that, without the Hon Minister, the Statistical Service cannot function. In any case, is he saying that the technical people who operate the Statistical Service are of less competence than people who are in Government?
Does he believe that people under any Government may be more knowledgeable than --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:49 p.m.
Alright, let us return to the proposed amendment.
Mr Agbodza 12:49 p.m.
Mr Speaker, so, I disagree with the Hon Minister getting involved in this. Let the Board take
control of this, and let the government channel its policies through it. Whatever they do would be good for the country.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:49 p.m.
Yes, the Hon Ranking Member would be the last, and then we would return to the letter of the proposed amendment.
Alhaji I. A. B. Fuseini 12:49 p.m.
Mr Speaker, indeed, the proposed amendment is just on clause 6; it does not include the Hon Minister.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:49 p.m.
It was proposed by other Hon Members.
Alhaji I. A. B. Fuseini 12:49 p.m.
Yes; I am sure sitting up there and having the best eye view of what is happening with your deep knowledge of the Constitution, you have provided guidance. I think that your guidance is well-founded within the Constitution.
First, what is the function of the Statistical Service? Their function is provided in article 186(2), which is to collect, compile, analyse and publish socio-economic data on Ghana or any other function that would be given to them by Parliament.
Mr Speaker, how do they collect, compile, analyse and publish socio-
economic data? Article 186(3) answers that question; it says that the Board may prescribe the manner in which they do that. So, when we read article 186(2) and (3) together, we would be left in no doubt the functions of the Statistical Service Board. So, we should not introduce --
Mr Speaker, my worry is that if we introduce the Hon Minister into this Act, we would amend the Constitution through the backdoor. We should not, as Hon Members of Parliament, be seen to amend the Constitution through the backdoor. There is nowhere in articles 185 and 186 that makes mention of an Hon Minister. So, why would we want to subject the performance of the functions of the Government Statistician to an Hon Minister or policy?
Mr Speaker, the last point is to assure my good Hon Friend, the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance, that the work of the Statistical Service is to inform policy, and not a policy to direct it on how to perform its work. The work of the Statistical Service is to produce data on socio-economic happenings in this country, which would inform policy. That is why it is supposed to be neutral in its production of data. When we put it under an Hon Minister, we would compromise its neutrality.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:49 p.m.
Hon Members, I want us to return to the text.
Mr Kwarteng 12:49 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if the understanding is that wherever there is Government policy, in spite of the provision in the Bill now, that policy would necessarily have to influence the Board and the Statistical Service, for there is a provision in our Public Service that makes that necessary, then my concerns would have been addressed.
The fact remains that there may be Government policies that because of this provision that the Board shall, in particular, formulate the policy -- There would be conflict as to whether the Board could take a policy position that is different from that of Government.
Mr Speaker, one last example -- the Statistical Service engages a lot, for instance, with donors. If there is a policy position by Government that it
would not take money from a particular country, but the Statistical Service Board says, as a matter of policy, they have an engagement with the country, would there not be conflict? If it is the view of the House that, in that case, there is a provision within the Public Service that immediately estops the Statistical Service from complying with those provisions, then my concerns would have been addressed.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:49 p.m.
I cannot see how taking money would be a policy of statistical operation. So, some of the fears are not covered in the Bill we are considering now.
Let us keep ourselves within statistics and the Statistical Service, and not matters outside it.
Now, the questions were, for example, do you intend to delete clause 6 (2) of the Bill?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:49 p.m.
Mr Speaker, having listened to the Hon Member for Tamale Central, we would keep the provision in the Bill and delete clause 6(1)(d) of the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:49 p.m.
So, it means that we would abandon item numbered 10(i) but only delete paragraph (d) in the Bill and clause 6 would stay.
Very well, Hon Members, the proposed amendment is to delete clause 6 (1) (d).
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 6 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 7 -- Tenure of office of members
Mr Bernard Ahiafor 12:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, even though there is no advertised amendment on clause 7, with your leave, I beg to move, clause 7 (7), line 1, after “section 9”, add
“(2)”.
Mr Speaker, the reason is that clause 9 of the Bill states two things. Clause 9 (1) states, and I beg to quote:
“A member of the Board who has an interest in a matter for consideration
(a) shall disclose the nature of the interest and the disclosure shall form part of the record of the consideration of the matter; and
(b) shall not participate in the deliberations of the Board in respect of that matter.
A member ceases to be a member of the Board, if that member has an interest in a matter before the Board and
(a) fails to disclose that interest, or
(b) participates in the deliberation of the Matter”.

Mr Speaker, for one to cease to be a member, then it must be clause 9(2) and not clause 9(1). So, to put the whole of clause 9 there would be interpreted to mean that clause 9(1) will also be applicable. So, we need to be specific and make it clause 9(2).
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 12:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, he is right that it is a drafting matter. This is because we have always said clause 9, and the only place that a vacancy will occur is in subclause (2); but if he thinks that will create confusion, it is a drafting matter and not something that is wrong at all as clause 9 includes clause 9(2). However, if he says it is for the purpose of clarity --
Yeboah — rose
Mr Frist Deputy Speaker 12:59 p.m.
It means you did not pay attention. I thought you had even left. The
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:59 p.m.
Yes, Hon Chairman, if you want to say anything, I will hear you.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this is just to signal that upon a second consideration, I will re-visit this one.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:59 p.m.
If you want to re-open the matter now, I will hear you.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, Hon (Dr) Akoto Osei says that, that insertion or addition is unnecessary. This is because, as you rightly pointed out, the only infraction will refer to subclause “2” in clause 9. What does this add, or what does not adding “2” detract from the Bill? Nothing.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:59 p.m.
What adding it to the Bill does is to specify the only area in the Bill where
a vacancy can occur. So, we do not get any confusion -- if a member does not disclose his interest, a vacancy occurs; or if a member discloses interest but takes part in the decision, a vacancy occurs. I think that the amendment is appropriate.
Clause 7 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 8 -- Meetings of the Board
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 8 subclause (1), line 2, delete ‘‘the time and in the places” and insert “ a time and place”.
Mr Speaker, it follows in clause 8(2), itemised as 10 (iii) on page 12 of the Order Paper.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:59 p.m.
Item listed 10 (iii)?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that was what I drew your attention to, that clause 8 listed as items numbered 10(ii) and 10(iii) are the same.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:59 p.m.
I called clause 8, item numbered 10(ii) too. and you have moved it so move item numbered 10 (iii) too..
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 8, subclause (3), line 3, delete “the place and time” and insert “a time and place”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 8, subclause (3), line 1, delete “five” and insert “ four” and in line 2, delete “or a greater number determined by the Board in respect of an important matter”.
Mr Speaker, this is a seven- member Board and the quorum was set at five. The Committee is of the view that the quorate number be reduced to four because for a seven- member Board, if we have a quorum of five, then sometimes it would become practically impossible to hold meetings.
Secondly, the concluding part of clause 8(3) says that:
“… or a greater number determined by the Board in respect of an important matter”.
Mr Speaker, we think that all matters that are before the Board are important.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 8 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 9 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 10 -- Establishment of committees
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 12:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 10, subclause(2), delete .
Mr Speaker, subclause (2) of clause 10 says 12:59 p.m.
“A committee of the Board may be chaired by a member of the Board”.
Mr Speaker, the Committee is of the view that the Board should decide whether a sub-committee of the Board would be chaired by -- because a provision is made where we can have a committee of non- members and members. So, then, they will decide whether the sub- committee, so composed, should be chaired by a non-member or a member of the Board.
So, we want subclause (2) deleted from the Bill.
Mr Agbodza 12:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am not sure whether we have lost anything by leaving that -- they said “may”. So, the Board could decide that a member may not. I am sure that if we leave it, it does not take anything away but rather gives the opportunity that if they need to apply that they can. I think that the Hon Chairman should consider just leaving this particular clause.
Mr Speaker, we have done some similarly and left that clause in there. For the sake of consistency, the Hon Chairman should consider abandoning this particular subclause.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the provision reads:
“A committee of the Board may be chaired by a member of the Board.”
In other words, it may or may not be chaired. So, if we delete it, it really does not add any value. Except that if you leave it, where a committee is composed completely of non- members, the Board itself could decide that given the remit of this committee, they intend to have a member of the Board to go there and chair.
So, the --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:59 p.m.
So, Hon Majority Leader, if it is deleted, what do we lose?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 12:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that is because if we have a totally non-member committee, a sub- committee or a committee of the Board, then a member may not chair.
If it is a committee that is comprises of non-members only, a member cannot chair.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the difficulty is that there are some committees that could be charged by the Board to, maybe, come with some recommendations. Immediately, on that account, we implement it on behalf of the Board and in that regard, we may require a Board member to be there.
So, I believe that deleting this would rather do harm. So, we should let it be there so that the Board, on its own accord, could decide what to do.

So I would appeal to the Hon Chairman to allow what he sought to delete to be there.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:09 p.m.
Yes, Hon Ahiafor?
Mr Ahiafor 1:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in previous legislations, we have been more specific, that where a committee is made up of members and non- members of the Board, a member of the Board should chair. We even went further to indicate that a committee made up of non-members should be advisory only.
Mr Speaker, I am surprised that those two provisions are completely missing in this particular Bill.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in previous legislations, we said “shall be chaired by a member of the Board”. This one says “may be chaired by …” Deleting it does no harm to the clause as it is.
This is because we should keep in mind that this is a very technical Board, and most of the times, a lot of the work should be chaired by technical people who might not necessarily be members of the Board.
Mr Ahiafor 1:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we need to have a reason to depart from previous legislations. In previous legislations, we made a distinction that if there is a committee chaired by both members and non-members of the Board, specifically, a member of the Board is to chair. But if it is made of only non-members, then that particular committee would be advisory only. Those provisions are
clearly stated in previous legislations that we have passed. If there is a special reason for which we should depart, he should come out and tell us that for that reason, they do not want those provisions to apply, and for which reason a member may not chair at all.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the issue of non-members committee being advisory only is neither here nor there. A sub-committee cannot on its own implement a Board's decisions. All sub-committees advise the Board, so those legislations he claims we have done is neither here nor there.
In this case, he should keep in mind that the Statistical Board is much specialised, and most of the time, their committees are chaired by non- members of the Board. Usually, they invite professors of statistics in the universities to chair their Boards because of their technical nature. So the Hon Chairman is right; deleting it does no harm.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:09 p.m.
Yes, Hon Leader?
Alhaji Mohammed-Mubarak Muntaka 1:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just wanted to help my Hon Colleague that the reason he talked about is not what we are interested in because it is a very technical area. Whether it is chaired by a member or non-member of the
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 11 subclause (1), lines 3 and 4, delete “as a technical advisory body to the Board”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:09 p.m.
Hon Member for Tarkwa Nsuaem and Hon Member for Twifo Atti Morkwa, I can hear from here. If you could keep your voices low, I do not want us to share in that.
Yes, Hon Member, please continue.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we would move this to subclause (2) when we get there.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 11 subclause (2), delete and insert the following:
“The Statistics Advisory Committee shall be the technical advisory body of the Board.”
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in clause 11 (1), the caveat is not necessary without limiting subsection 1 of section 10. We are establishing statutory committee of the Statistical Service. Committees under section 10 are committees of the Board. They are two different committees. They are not the same.
The Statistical Service cannot exist -- else it would infringe the provisions of this Act if they do not establish the Statistics Advisory Committee; but they can perform their functions without establishing any committee under section 10. They are not the same.
We are not to limit any power under section 10. If we just say that “There is established a national advisory committee'' -- Or we could even say it without prejudice because we are not limiting any power under section 10.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:09 p.m.
Yes, Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if we have to leave it, the opening should rather be “without prejudice to subsection (1).”

Absolutely. So we are not establishing any committee known as the National Advisory Committee of Producers and Users.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:09 p.m.
But he has amended that, has he not?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this is an international body - National Advisory Committee of Producers and Users of Statistics (NACPUS). That is what we are establishing. It is all over; but for our purposes, we are saying that it should be called the Statistics Advisory Committee. In essence, what we are establishing is the NACPUS; but in this Act, we are saying it should be called the Statistics Advisory Committee.

So if we check NACPUS, it is all over. In this Act, we cannot be repeating the “National Advisory Committee…” Otherwise, we have to use abbreviation, which we do not want to do. So that is what we are establishing -- and the Government Statistician is here.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:19 p.m.
The proposed amendment was to delete the first caveat in clause 11(1) without limiting subsection 1 of section 10.
Hon Chairman, what is your reaction to that?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, you have put the Question on the amendment in (vi), likewise, the amendment in (vii). You were just about to put the Question on the entire clause.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:19 p.m.
At the Consideration Stage, it is entirely opened.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:19 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker, but I think my explanation sits well.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:19 p.m.
You have not answered that of clause 11(1). Without limiting subsection 1 of section 10. —
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that is English and I concede without prejudice.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:19 p.m.
So the proposed amendment is to delete without limiting subsection 1 of section 10.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that is fine.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 11 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 12 -- Composition of the Statistics Advisory Committee
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thought now that we are establishing the Statistics Advisory Committee, you would advise the Board on matters concerning statistics. Why do we qualify it? [Interruption] -- It is amended to read what?
I thought the fundamental was not necessary.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 12, opening phrase, line 3, delete “including” and insert “comprising”.
Mr Speaker, it would read 1:19 p.m.
“The Statistics Advisory Committee consists of not less than 15 and not more than 25 members who have technical competence in the production and use of statistics comprising
…”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:19 p.m.
Hon Member, the number you have here is nine.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, when we go further, you would see that now we have 25. The first list is nine and then where we go to (b) - Originally, it was up to about 23 but the amendments to come would take it to 25. That is why now we say “comprise” instead of “include”.
Mr Agbodza 1:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, “include” to “comprise”. What exactly do we gain from changing from “include” to “comprise”?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:19 p.m.
The difference is that when it is “include” it means there is room to add; but when it is “comprise”, that is the final list.
Mr Agbodza 1:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, are we saying that in a 21st Century, when we are talking about statistics,
whatever we list here, until further notice, we are not capable of considering any new thing based on technology? [Interruption] -- My point is that it should not be like that. But --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:19 p.m.
So in your --
Mr Agbodza 1:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my Motion is that there was no need to change this since we could have a situation where new things coming up would require us to do something new. This is because we are talking about data and ICT here. I was not at the Committee meeting; the Hon Chairman probably had a better information as to why it should be like that. I am ready to go with it.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:19 p.m.
The clause says that the Committee would be made up of these people: Director of National Development Planning Committee (NDPC); National Population Council (NPC); Ghana Immigration Service; Births and Deaths Registry - the first nine and the next one, making it 25, final. If we use ‘‘include'' it means that the 25 is not final. It is only part of - But they have suggested that we make it final. Your argument is that we may want to include other people in future. Is that your argument?
Mr Agbodza 1:19 p.m.
Exactly so, Mr Speaker. My argument is that it is possible that something new may come up that would require us to add somebody or a title to make the work more effective. So I would plead with the Chairman to look beyond today.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, then the argument should be that we should not place limits on the number. This is because the clause says not less than 15 and not more than 25. The argument should be that we should recouch this one so that there are no limits. Then we can say “… including the following”.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I agree with the Hon Chairman's last amendment. We have given the membership of the Committee - even though I have a problem with calling it a Committee. This is because we cannot have 25 people and call it a Committee. It is a Council.
However, Mr Speaker, by clause 11, these 25 people constitute the National Advisory Committee of Producers and Users of Statistics. In clause 12(1)(a), we have given their names. We have no quorum; no minimum establishment for the Advisory Committee and then we are saying between 15 and 25 members. So at what point would we exclude somebody?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I agree but he also said that 25 members would not be a Committee -- So the Finance Committee now would be the Finance Council because it is a 25-member Committee. Is that what he is saying?
Mr Speaker, we would want to place a cap of 25 so we would recouch this one to read: the Statistics Advisory Committee shall consist of 25 members'' and then we list them. This is because our list is 25 -- “The Statistics Advisory Committee shall consist of not more than 25 members who have technical competence in the production and use of statistics …”
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if they say, “not more than…”, it means that they have not dealt with the lower limit. So somebody can still have 20.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:19 p.m.
Or even five.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:29 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we are listing the members of the Statistics Advisory Committee here in the Bill. We already have 23.
As we go further, we would add two more. We have the Ministry of Transport and the Ministry of the Interior to add, so that would make it 20. So we are saying “not more than
25”.
Mr Ahiafor 1:29 p.m.
Mr Speaker, another practical challenge is that we are naming the category of people that would consist of the Committee. If we say “not more than 25”, it means a discretion can be exercised to make it even 10. Which category would be excluded?
There is going to be a problem, so a committee consisting of 25 members.—
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:29 p.m.
Mr Speaker, so I take it again: “The Statistics Advisory Committee consists of 25 members who have technical competence in the production and use of statistics, comprising…”
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:29 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 12, paragraph (d), delete and insert the following:
“two representatives from academia not below the rank of a Senior Lecturer nominated by the Association of Vice Chancellors”.
Mr Speaker, originally, we had two representatives from civil society; one from an economic think tank organisation and the other from a social policy and governance organisation nominated by their respective organisations.
Mr Speaker, this sounded too vague, and if you contrasted this with the representatives from the other agencies where they were coming from not below the rank of a director, if we are not careful and we leave this to civil society -- Mr Speaker, you know where I am going.
So we would rather have two from academia, mindful that this is a committee of users and producers of statistics, and academia uses the Data Act, so that is why this amendment is proposed.
Mr Agbodza 1:29 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we cannot substitute academia for civil society. They play different but important roles.
I do not understand the rational for saying that we cannot identify civil society groups that show interest in data collection and usage. Is the Hon Chairman saying that in this country we cannot identify civil society groups that are capable of augmenting the work of this committee, hence we substitute them with academia?
I have no problem at all if it includes academia, but I feel there is a reason why civil society should be part of this. They should rather look for a place for them. It should not be a substitution.
Mr Speaker, in many cases in this country and on many issues, the truth is that the state institutions appear to fail in identifying some problems. I have my problem with some civil societies parading as experts in this or that, but we know that there are some also who are extremely helpful to issues that bother on society.
So I do not think it is appropriate for us to just substitute civil society for academia. It is not enough reason. There are civil society organisations in this country that can be of use to this establishment.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:29 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I understand the intendment of the amendment, but I pray the Hon Chairman to include civil society, because if you look at the 25 members, all of them would be government institutions, so this Act would not be inclusive enough.
We would not be including the private sector, so the only way we can include the private sector in this Act and get them represented is through civil society organisations.
It could comprise one lecturer and one civil society organisation group, so that it would be one representative from academia not below the rank of a senior lecturer nominated by the Association of Vice Chancellors, and one representative from a social and governance organisation nominated by the relevant civil society organisations.
Mr Speaker, there are many, but my concern is that when you pass this Bill in the nature in which it is, and especially because the Hon Chairman is my friend, when these civil society organisations find space in the law, he should not be seen to be leading the charge to remove them from the law.
The compromise, I think, is to balance it; one and one.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:29 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my concern has to do with the umbrella body that nominates the civil society organisation. Secondly, even in the case of academia, we have set it not below the rank of a senior lecturer, and we are bringing in a certain category of persons, directors or above. Now, with the civil society, we could accommodate them, but we would then have to fine-tune who nominates the representatives, and what category of persons goes to sit on this committee.
Mr Agbodza 1:29 p.m.
Mr Speaker, internationally, we have civil organisations, even at the United Nations, for example, Habitat for Humanity, which have more data on housing in Ghana than some government institutions. It should never be said that once you have not been pegged at a certain level of leadership in the civil service, that is a director position, you are incapable of providing knowledge to support a thing like this.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:29 p.m.
The question is, who nominates? That is what I want to hear.
Mr Agbodza 1:29 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Board can take up that responsibility, and that is why I buy into Hon Fuseini's idea of a “relevant civil society organisation”.
In other words, I am sure many civil society organisations may parade themselves as having knowledge in this, so they present their credentials and the Board would go through and say that yes, they have record that they have data and so on.
Mr Speaker, in my constituency, a non-governmental organisation called Pencils of Promise have better data than Ghana Education Service and they have provided more incentive to education. Of course, the State licensed them, so in the same way, the Board can allow them based on their credentials.
Mr Speaker, it is to the extent that Volta River Authority is signing an agreement with them to do things with them, so I agree that we can have a compromise where we choose one representative from academia and one from civil society, and place the responsibility on the Board to come up with that.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:29 p.m.
Hon Chairman, he says the Board would nominate the civil society organisation's representatives.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, earlier we heard that all of these are coming from government. Now we are going back to the civil
society organisations being nominated by the Board.
It is because of this ambiguity that we decided to leave them out, more so because this is a technical advisory body to the Board, so if we go to academia, we clearly, you would get two persons who would bring something to bear on this Advisory Committee.

It is possible that in a civil society space, we might not get anybody who has the relevant competencies ready to serve on this Committee. This is because the fact that one operates in the civil society space does not mean that he would be prepared to serve on this Committee.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
I would therefore put the Question on the amendment that you are supporting; that we delete “the” and substitute that with “two members from academia.”
Is that not the proposed amendment?
Mr Kpodo 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the proposed amendment reads:
“two representatives from academia not below the rank of a Senior Lecturer nominated by
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, we are guided. We would further amend it.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
Hon Member, you should reformulate your amendment now, so that I would put the Question.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the proposed amendment would therefore read: “two representatives from academia not below the rank of a Senior Lecturer nominated by Vice Chancellors of Ghana.”
Question put amendment agreed to.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 12 -- add the following new paragraphs:
“(xi) Transport, and
(xii) The Interior.”
Mr Ahiafor 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I would want to know what the Hon Member means by “Transport and the Interior”.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, we have listed a number of Ministries -- Communications, Education and so on. We would however want to add the Ministry of Transport and the Ministry of the Interior to those.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not know of the term “Ministry of the Interior” as legislated. I rather know of “Ministry of Interior”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
The draftspersons should put the appropriate Ministries as legislated in the Bill.
Clause 12 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 13 -- Appointment of members of the Statistics Advisory Committee
Mr Ahiafor 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 13(1) reads, and with your permission, I quote:
“The members of the Statistics Advisory Committee shall be
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
Hon Chairman, do you intend that they have a maximum of four years? If so, then we should clarify it.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the idea is that one would serve two terms only.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
Therefore, it is proposed that the word “only” should be inserted. Is that acceptable to you?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 13 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 14 - Meetings and working groups of the Statistics Advisory Committee.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 14 subclause (1), delete “twice each year” and insert “at least once in six months”.
Mr Speaker, we do not want the case where their meetings are held in the first month of the year. It satisfies this requirement, so it should be at least once in six months.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 14 subclause (2), delete “ten” and insert “twelve”.
Mr Speaker, if we go back to clause 12, where we originally had ten Ministries, then we were going to get ten sectoral working Committees on Communications, Education and so on.
However, with the addition of the Ministry of Transport and the Ministry of the Interior, now, we would have 12 ministries listed in there. We would therefore want to put it as “12 sectoral working groups…”
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Mr Ahiafor 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, before you put the Question on the entire clause 14, I believe that the usual provision in clause 9 of the Bill should apply to the members of the Advisory Committee, that is, disclosure of interest.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
Hon Chairman, the Hon Member proposes that the limitations you have placed on members of the Board should be brought here.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, that being the case, clause 10 (3), which says, “Section 9 applies to members of a committee of the Board”, would not apply to these.
Mr Ahiafor 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe that clause 10 (3) deals specifically with a committee of the Board.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
However, this is a technical advisory council. They have no interest in management or decision-making. They just offer technical advice; so, should they have the same limitations as having interest and so on? I do not think so.
Mr Ahiafor 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I would take a cue from you.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
1. 49 p. m.
Clause 14 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
Clause 15?
Clause 15 -- Allowances
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 15, line 2, before “allowances” delete “the”.
Mr Speaker, it is grammatical.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 15 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
Clause 16?
Clause 16 -- Government Statistician --
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker
—
Mr Boamah -- rose —
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
Hon Chairman, hold on.
Hon Boamah from Okaikoi Central, is that right?
Mr Boamah 1:39 a.m.
Rightly so, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
Very well, let me hear you.
Mr Boamah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I think at this time, you should invoke your powers under Standing Order 40 (3) and extend Sitting to about 5.00 p. m. so that we could deal with this Bill. We want to work.
Thank you very much.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
It is my discretion to determine whether I would extend Sitting so let me do clause 16 and I would then determine whether I would extend Sitting.
Yes, clause 16?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, delete and insert the following:
“Government Statistician
16. (1) The head of the service is the Government Statistician who shall be appointed by the president in accordance with article 185 of the Constitution.
(2) The Government Statistician shall be the chief adviser to
Government and the Board on all matters relating to statistics.
(3) The Government Statistician shall hold office on the terms and conditions specified in the letter of appointment.
(4) Subject to clause (2) of article 186 of the Constitution, a person shall not interfere with the work of the Government Statistician, in respect of the activities of the Statistics Service, on
(a) the manner in which and the time when a statistical collection is to be undertaken;
(b) the form, extent and timing of the release of statistical information; or
(c) Whether a statistical collection should be discontinued”.
Mr Speaker, originally in the Bill, Government Statistician was being given some independence in clause 16 (3). It said:
“The Government Statistician is not subject to the direction or control of any person or authority in the performance of
Mr Boamah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I did not get proper explanation from the Hon Chairman on this independence that the Government Statistician seeks to obtain from us.
Mr Speaker, every institution that the Constitution envisages to be independent, the Constitution makes it clear; the Electoral Commission (EC), the National Media Commission (NMC), and the National Commission on Civic Education (NCCE) are all clearly stated in the Constitution. So I do not get the independence the Government Statistician wants from us through a legislation. He does not need it.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
The explanation given is not contained in the Bill; kindly speak to the Order Paper and the Bill. We are discussing what they have proposed; if you have any objection to any of them, please, point it out. Otherwise they have quoted the Constitution as the source of authority. And I intend to put the Question.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 16 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
Clause 17?
Clause 17 -- Functions of the Government Statistician.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 17, subclause (1), delete and insert the following:
“(1) the Government statistician
(a) is responsible for the day to day administration of the affairs of the Service and is answerable to the Board in the performance of function in this Act; and
(b) Shall implement the decisions of the Board.”
Mr Chireh 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the way he said ‘‘delete and insert the following'', where are they inserting those items? Are we saying that what the Hon Chairman has now done replaces even subclause (c), (d) and (e) and all that? He needs to tell us what is being deleted. [Interruption.]
He is either deleting the paragraphs and replacing them or he is deleting the whole subclause (1).
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
Yes, Hon Chairman, he needs further explanation.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Order Paper is clear; it says, we should delete subclause (1) in its entirety and insert the following. . .;
Mr Speaker, when we go through the functions of the Government Statistician, for example, in clause 17(1)(c); “...determine the manner in which data may be compiled” and so on, these are functions vested in the Board by the Constitution.
So, that is why we recrafted this one. We were giving powers to the
Government Statistician that he does not have. Some of these functions sit with the Board.
Mr Chireh 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I appreciate what he is saying, that he is deleting subclause (1) and replacing it with only two functions, that is, “responsible for the day-to-day administration of the affairs of the service” and he is “answerable to the Board in the performance of functions in this Act”; and “(d) shall implement the decisions of the Board”.
But if we look at the one that follows, that is the Auditor-General, we have the Auditor-General and Government Statistician but the Board that is also part of the problem with the Auditor-General because if we give the Board that authority, the Board cannot exercise that authority; it can only be the Government Statistician who can do that.
So, my point is that if you look at the Auditor-General's argument and the way we are creating these bodies and setting up boards to be in charge, even if we do, it would still be the duty of the Government Statistician to do this.
Dr Anthony Akoto Osei 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I know it is that either my Hon Colleague came in late or the challenge by the Police Officer is
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
Yes, Hon Ranking Member for Constitutional, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs?
Mr Agbodza 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 17 —
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:39 a.m.
I called the Hon Ranking Member for Constitutional, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
Mr Agbodza 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, sorry.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:39 a.m.
Mr Speaker, just to draw your attention to article 186 (1) (b) of the Constitution.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:59 p.m.
I intended to finish at clause 17 but it is already 2.00 p. m.
Having regard to the state of business of the House, I direct that the House Sits beyond the regular Sitting hours.
Now, you may continue.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:59 p.m.
The Govern- ment Statistician is a member of the Board, so how could he be answerable to the Board? That is why the Constitution says that he is under the supervision of the Board and not answerable to the Board. He cannot be answerable to himself.
Mr Speaker, I am of the view, that in order not to introduce controversy, we should just put it as:
“(1) The Government Statistician
(a) is responsible for the day— to — day administration of the Statistical Service.”
That is all. And then we would leave it.
Mr Agbodza 1:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 17 (1) has got subclauses up to (e). Is the Hon Chairman saying that all these points are captured somewhere? This is because for me, it is all right to have these points elaborated clearly. Is the Hon Chairman saying that all these things are written or assumed somewhere and that all this is replaced with just two clauses? If so, where are they? [Interruption.]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:59 p.m.
Hon Member, that was discussed when you were away.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 17 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 18 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:59 p.m.
There is only one amendment to clause 19, so I would take that and then take up to clause 22 and adjourn.
Clause 19 -- Secretary to the Board
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 1:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 19, subclause (2), line 1, paragraph (b), delete “administrative”.
Mr Speaker, the Secretary to the Board shall perform any other functions that the Board may direct and not only administrative functions.
Mr Agbodza 1:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not think that it is enough for the Hon Chairman to say we should delete “administrative”. If he is thinking of something else, he should give us some examples of the things that the Secretary could do. What else could the Secretary do? Maybe, he knows; but I do not know. So he should tell us some of the other things the Secretary is supposed to do apart from administrative work.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:59 p.m.
The Secretary would bring water to the Board Members to drink. That is not administrative, is it? [Laughter.]
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 19 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:59 p.m.
There are no advertised amendments to clauses 20, 21 and 22.
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:59 p.m.
Yes, Hon Ranking Member?
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, clause 20 seeks to circumvent the power of the President in article 195 which says, the Board shall appoint other staff of the Service that are necessary for the proper performance of the -- [Interruption] It is not the Board but the President. [Inter- ruption] Yes, article 195(3).
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:59 p.m.
Article 195(3) gives that power to the President, so why do we want to give that power to the Board? I think that power should not be under article 195, otherwise, it ceases to be as independent as we want it to be.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:59 p.m.
We cannot give that power to the Board, we have no such capacity.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:59 p.m.
On the contrary, I think that the Board should do that and it should not be under article 195.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 1:59 p.m.
No, Mr Speaker, per article 195 it is the President but the President can decide to delegate. So, my view is that we cannot start a law which says that, “The Board shall appoint other staff…”. It is the President who appoints other staff - everybody.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, article 195 (3) does not say the President. It says:
“…shall vest in the council or other governing body of that institution or body.”
It is treated like universities. It does not say the President and it is consistent with University Councils, Research Councils among others. It is the governing council, and in this case, the Board.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:59 p.m.
The interpretation of article 195 (3), if you are referring to the other governing bodies in ejusdem generis, it should be its research body and not just the Statistical Service. The Statistical
Service is not a tertiary institution. I think that the President should not be the appointing body, but it should not come under article 195.
Mr Chireh 1:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that the amendment does not cause much trouble because it subjects it to subclause 3 which is the one where delegation is -- [Interruption]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:59 p.m.
You want it to be an independent body as the Constitution envisages it. Does the Commission on Human Rights and Administrative Justice (CHRAJ) appoint its staff under article 195? No. Does the Electoral Commission appoint its staff under article 195? No. So, the power to appoint should be with the Board, but it should not come under article 195.
Article 195 specifically deals with those to be appointed by the President, and then it says when it is an educational or research institution, then it is by the Board or governing council of those institutions. However, when it is an independent constitutional body, as this is envisaged to be, then it is the Board of that body. I do not think article 195 should come into it.
Mr Chireh 1:59 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the cross-reference is the problem, because as you rightly said, it is also because the Hon Chairman said
earlier, that this cannot be an independent body. I mean, the Government Statistician shall not be like the Auditor-General or an independent body.
That is creating this problem because the collection of statistics, among others, is academic and semi- professional. Therefore, the intention should really be for us to say that they should appoint the people. However, if we say they are not an independent institution, as a constitutional body, that is where the conflict is. Their work, naturally, makes them like any educational or research institution. We have to marry these two, otherwise, we would have conflict of roles.
Ideally, we could have said under clause 2, “the delegation'' and could even state what the Board could do under sub-clause 2 of article 195. In this case, if we say so, we would only indicate at what level the appointment should be made, but it is because it has been delegated already in that subclause.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:09 p.m.
The article 195 means it is the President, but we want to avoid the President in this matter. We want it to remain an independent body.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, at the Committee meeting, we were told that the Statistical Service is viewed as a tertiary institution --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:09 p.m.
Viewed by whom?
Mr Boamah 2:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in article 190 (1), all the Public Services of Ghana are listed. With your permission, I beg to quote 190 (3) which says:
(3) ‘‘Subject to the provisions of this Constitution, an Act of Parliament enacted by virtue of clause (1) of this article shall provide for --
(a) the governing council for the public service to which it relates;
Mr Speaker, I side with you. Article 195 (3) cannot be construed to include the public services that article 190 envisages. It can never be because the institution set out under 195 (3) does not include the Statistical Service and that is why the universities, for example article 190 are not listed as being part of article 190 (1). I do not think that it is the proper place for this to be listed.
Mr Ahiafor 2:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I support the Hon Member on this
Mr Ahiafor 2:09 p.m.


issue. We need to look at clauses 19 and 20 together because it says that the appointment would be made under article 195 (3). With your permission, I beg to quote article 193 (5).

“The power to appoint persons to hold or act in an office in a body of higher education, research or professional training, shall vest in the council or other governing body of that institution or body''.

Mr Speaker, the question is, is the Statistical Service a body of higher education, research or professional training institution? If not, then it cannot come under article 195(3).

To the best of my knowledge, the Statistical Service is a service under article 190. The Public Services under article 190 (1) talks about the Statistical Service, so we cannot classify what the Constitution has said; it is a public service; as a research institution which does appointment under clause 195(3).

The appointment that could be done under article 195(3). Are specified in article 195(3). So for me, Statistical Services is a public service under article 190, so we need to be careful doing the appointment under

195(3).
Mr Samuel Atta Akyea 2:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the position taken by my Hon Colleague should be seen in the function of the Statistical Service. It is so clear in article 195(3) which says that:
“The power to appoint persons to hold or act in an office in a body of higher education, research…”
The operative word is “research''. If we look at the fact that the Statistical Service is very much engaged in research, then we should not say that by reason of the fact that they are a public service, we should not give them the elevation under article 195 (3). It is the same as any higher body except that we would not say that they are a university but that the kind of work they do is analogous to --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:09 p.m.
Are they engaged in research or they compile --
Mr Akyea 2:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, they do both -- that is research.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:09 p.m.
Where in the Bill is it stated? Please, point out to me so that I would be guided.
Mr Akyea 2:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, data and research material are not compiled in a vacuum; proper research is done
before a compilation of any serious data is done. What they do is akin - sometimes they go into dissertation and serious matters.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with your permission, I want to refer the House to the last paragraph on item (iv) in the Memorandum that accompanied the Bill. It says:
“Provision is also made in clause 19 for the appointment of a Secretary to the Board in accordance with clause (3) of article 195 of the Consti- tution…… ‘‘his is in accordance with clause (3) of article 195 of the Constitution as the Service is categorised among the tertiary education, scientific and research institutions by the Fair Wages and Salaries Commission''
Mr Speaker, this is the Memorandum that accompanied the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:09 p.m.
I agree but that in itself is not the Bill but an explanation.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, as a matter of fact, the entry level for recruitment as a statistician in the Statistical Service is a Masters
Degree. So, clearly, they are in that category.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:09 p.m.
When we use Fair Wages and Salaries Commission their responsibility is to place agencies and bodies within the same category in the analogous arrangement. It is just like saying that your conditions of service are purged at that of a High Court Judge -- does that make you a High Court Judge?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, High Court judges, have police protection, vehicles and fuel, so we are not at par with them.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:09 p.m.
So, what are you analogous to? [Laughter.] Even magistrates have police protection and so on. The real level is that of a High Court Judge but it does not make you part of the Judiciary and that is the point I would want to draw attention to.
My view is that, the Board should be the agency, but we should not bring in article 195(3) because if we do that, then we raise the issue of inter- pretation. How do they fall into that category? That is the danger.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 2:09 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if we refer to article 195, we are bringing it within the remit of
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 2:19 p.m.


the Public Services, from article 190 to article 199 as amended. That is why if we want to give the Board the power to appoint, we should leave it at the Board level and then if the power is challenged, we could argue on the neutrality or independence of the Service because article 185(1) establishes the Statistical Service as a public service institution of Ghana. It is very clear.

Now, by the simple rule of interpretation, one cannot rely on article 195(3); ejusdem generis rule, to wit, rule of the same kind, because we are talking about higher education. Mind you, everybody has forgotten the last word, “training”. It defines the three; higher education training, research training or professional training.

Mr Speaker, so, what do they train in? Research? [Laughter.] So, I agree with you because that again would further the desired intention of the Constitution in granting it some independence. First of all, the cross- reference is wrong because the Statistical Service is not a higher education institution; it is not a research institution and it is not a professional training institution. For

these purposes, the cross reference is wrong.

Mr Speaker, secondly, let us not even go into cross referencing. Let us just say, “appointment of other staff”.

“The Board shall be responsible for the appointment of other staff of the Statistical Service”.

Mr Speaker, let anybody challenge it. That is all.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:19 p.m.
Yes, so, that is clause 20(1) which reads:
“The Board shall appoint other staff of the Service that are necessary for the proper and effective performance of the function of the Service at the national and regional level.”
We leave it there.
Dr A. A. Osei 2:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, then, we would have to go back to clause 19 to delete the cross-referencing.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:19 p.m.
All right; maybe, we should go back to clause 19 and make that amendment, then I would put the Question to clause 19 again.
Yes, Hon Chairman of the Committee?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 2:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, so, clause 19 (1) will now read:
“There shall be a secretary to the Board who shall be appointed by the Board and be a person of the rank of a Director of the Service”.
Mr Chireh 2:19 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the appointment by the Board and for the Board makes it complicated. We should remove all the references to the article from what he earlier on read and say as follows:
“There shall be a Secretary to the Board who shall be a person of the rank of a Director of the Service appointed by the Board”.
That is a further amendment instead of the earlier one that was rendered.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:19 p.m.
Well, Hon Members, we want a secretary to the Board to be appointed by the Board but at the rank of Director. So,
the draftspersons shall capture that appropriately.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 19 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:19 p.m.
The amendment to clause 20 is to delete lines 3 and 4, “in accordance with clause 3 of article 195 of the Constitution”.
Question put and amendment agreed to.
Clause 20 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 21 and 22 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 2:19 p.m.
Hon Members, that brings us to the end of consideration of the Statistics Bill, 2018, for today.
ADJOURNMENT 2:19 p.m.
  • The House was adjourned at 2:28 p.m. till Tuesday, 23rd July, 2019 at 10.00 a.m.