Debates of 27 Jul 2010

MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
PRAYERS 10:20 a.m.
VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS AND THE OFFICIAL REPORT 10:20 a.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon Members, item 2 on the Order Paper -- Correction of Votes and Proceedings of Monday, 26th July, 2010.
Page 1. . . 5 --
Mr Gabriel K. Essilfie 10:20 a.m.
Hon Speaker,
I am listed as being absent yesterday -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon
Member, which page are you talking about?
Mr Essilfie 10:20 a.m.
Continuation of page 5
into page 6. Headed - “The following Hon Members were absent”: Number 29 “Essilfie Gabriel Kodwo, Dr Appiah- Kubi” listed as absent . Actually, I was here but I had to leave for a workshop --I had to attend a workshop at the Parliamentary Centre, which I will be attending the whole week
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon
Member, you are at page 6 but we have not got there yet.
Dr Kojo Appiah-Kubi 10:20 a.m.
Mr. Speaker, page 5, actually, is the heading, continuing to page 6.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Page 5 is
page 5, and page 6 is page 6. Very well, go ahead
Dr Appiah-Kubi 10:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker, item 29, I was not absent. The whole week, I am scheduled to be attending a workshop at the Parliamentary Centre, so I come in, then I leave for the workshop.
Thank you.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon Member, what is the correction here you are seeking to do?
Dr Appiah-Kubi 10:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I have been marked as absent but it should be “absent with permission”.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon Member, we just heard you say that you come and go, so --
Dr Appiah-Kubi 10:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker, what I do is, I come in, sign in and then I go to the workshop.
Mr Ambrose P. Dery 10:20 a.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker for the opportunity.
I believe that the Hon Member from Shama is creating a problem for a solution. Simply, if he was present, he should state that he was present and therefore, it should be stated as such. But he goes on to complicate matters by saying that he came and left and that he should be put down as absent with permission, when he has not filled any form that has gone to the Table Office. Let me help him, if he was present, he was present, simpliciter -- period.
Thank you Mr speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Yes, what is the position now?
Dr Appiah-Kubi 10:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I was
present, if that is what they want.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Very
well. This matter had been determined by Madam Speaker before. Were you on the floor of the House yesterday before going for the programme?
Dr Appiah-Kubi 10:20 a.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker. In
addition, since my going to the workshop was not of my making -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Hon
Member, the Hon Deputy Minority Leader has explained the process to you. If you want to seek permission, there is a form you fill and you process it through your leadership to the Speaker's Office. So if you were here before going to the workshop, then you were present, but if you only signed and you left, then you were absent.
Dr Appiah-Kubi 10:20 a.m.
I was in the
Chamber before I left.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:20 a.m.
Very well.
Table Office to take note.
Mr P. C. Appiah-Ofori 10:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker,
it is chronic that some of us will just come and sign, show our faces here and disappear. So what the Table Office Clerks should do is that, unless you are Sitting down here, they will not mark you present, and I support them. Sometimes, you have nobody here to do business and when you bring the Votes and Proceedings, it is full, indicating that almost one hundred per cent were here, while in actual fact there was nobody here. So, as long as these people have been marked present, you were not here.
We should take it as a principle, so that we will be here to do business of the Government, so that during the day, people will not sit outside here to insult us. Look at the number of people here. Assuming the number does not increase -- tomorrow, look at the Votes and Proceedings, almost everybody was here. We should not encourage it.
Alhaji Mohammed-Mubarak
Muntaka: Mr Speaker, just to support what my senior Colleague was saying. I believe that the ruling Madam Speaker
gave was that all committee sittings should start after the main Chamber work. This should be enforced. Most of the time, you come and it is advertised and even before 11.00 o'clock, the Clerks come around telling you that there is a meeting and people are forced to walk out.
I believe that if we enforce that rule, it will give us the opportunity to stay in the Chamber and after 2.00 o'clock, if there are other meetings, then we can attend. But that not withstanding, I also agree with you that we need to find a way of keeping Hon Members in the Chamber.
Thank you very much. Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:20 a.m.
It is a fair
comment.
Page 7. . .12 --
Mr William O. Boafo 10:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, page 12, under clause 8: there were two amendments to subclause (3). The first one was in respect of line 1 and the second one, in respect of line 4. It was the amendment relating to line 4, which was withdrawn but not line 1.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Very well.
So it is the one in subclause (4), which was withdrawn?
Mr Boafo 10:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, that is
subclause (3), line 4.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
That was
withdrawn?
Mr Boafo 10:30 a.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
But subclause (4), the addition there by way of amendment was not withdrawn?
Mr Boafo 10:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, subclause (4) was withdrawn. I am referring to clause 8, paragraph xvi.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Very well. There are two components?
Mr Boafo 10:30 a.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Very well.
Table Office should take note.
Page 13--
Alhaji Muntaka 10:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I just
need your guidance on this --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Is it a
correction?
Alhaji Muntaka 10:30 a.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker, correction on page 13, item xxiv, that is, clause 11. Mr Speaker, it was a proposed amendment by me, but as at the time it was called, I stepped out and then it is here being deemed as having been withdrawn. I want your guidance on this because I did not withdraw it; I was only not in the Chamber as at the time it was called. So I will need your guidance on that, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Hon
Member, if you have an amendment standing in your name and at the appropriate time, for the amendment to be moved, you were not there, and nobody moved the amendment, it is deemed to have been abandoned. What you can do is to come back under Second Consideration Stage. If you can convince the House that it should pass through a Second Consideration Stage -- So it has virtually been abandoned. Nobody moved it also on your - I do not know.
Mr Dery 10:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I think I appreciate the discomfiture on the part of the Hon Member for Asawase. But it means , a better rendition would be that it is deemed to have been abandoned since a withdrawal would have also required his consent to do so. So, it should be stated that “deemed to have been abandoned”, and I wish him good luck in trying to bring it back, but he should not try it.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Hon Deputy Minority Leader, they used the word “deemed”, so it does not need his consent. When you use the word “deemed” -
Mr Dery 10:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, you remind me of “deemed fit” and “seemed fit” in those renditions but let us put it as “abandoned”, so that he has a fair chance of coming for a Second Consideration even though I do not think he has much of a chance. But let it be on record that he -
Dr Owusu A. Akoto 10:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, page 13, xxv, that is clause 11(i), The rendition which was proposed is not quite right; it is not what has been captured here. If you look at paragraph (d)(i) --
“The need for gender balance and persons with disabilities,”
That has been changed here. Now, it reads
“The need for balance among gender and. . .”
I do not think that was what was proposed. “The need for gender balance and persons with disabilities.” I believe that is what the rendition should be.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Hon Member for Akropong, the amendment stands in your name. What was the proper rendition?
Mr Boafo 10:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, it is difficult to recall the proper rendition.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Then read what is there and see whether that was what was carried.
Mr Boafo 10:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, it was withdrawn.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
I have been informed that it was even withdrawn, so it is of no consequence. But what has been withdrawn should be properly captured. That is the point being made by the Hon Member that what was withdrawn should be properly captured. We would cross-check the records and see what
exactly the amendment was and what was withdrawn, so that it captures exactly what actually transpired.
Hon Member for Kwadaso, is that correct?
Dr Akoto 10:30 a.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker. Still on page 13, xxi, the quotation --
“(3) The Vice Chancellor shall hold office for a period up to four years and shall be eligible for reappointment up to another term only.”
I thought it should be,
“The Vice Chancellor shall hold office for a period of up to”
instead of
“for a period up to. . .”
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Hon Members, the Votes and Proceedings is a recording of what happened. Even if there is an error and the error is what happened, you cannot question it but we find another way of remedying that error. So what we would do is to get the Table Office to take note of what has been carried by the House and then the proper thing is done at the appropriate time.

Hon Members , the Votes and Proceedings of Monday, 26th July, 2010 as corrected be adopted as the true record of proceedings.

We have the Official Report of Friday, 16th July, 2010.

In the absence of any correction, the Official Report of Friday, 16th July, 2010 be adopted as the true record of proceedings.
ANNOUNCEMENTS 10:30 a.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:30 a.m.
Hon Members, I have the pleasure to introduce to you Members and staff of the Parliaments of Malawi and Zimbabwe who are on a five-day official visit to Ghana.
They are on a Budget Oversight Training Programme organised by the Parliamentary Centre in collaboration with the Austrian Development Co-operation.
The delegation comprises the following:
From Zimbabwe:
Hon Godfrey Beremauro
Hon Maxwell Dube
Hon Bednock Nyaude
Ms Better Sibanda
From Malawi:
Hon Ralph Jooma
Hon Eunice Napolo
Hon George Nesa and

Hon Members, on your behalf and on my own behalf, I wish them a pleasant stay in the country and a fruitful deliberation.

At the Commencement of Public Business.
Mr Abdul-Rashid Pelpuo 10:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, we may lay the Papers until Motion number 8, when we would go into a Closed Sitting.
PAPERS 10:40 a.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Deputy Majority Leader, should we take item 5 or we should go -- I cannot see the Hon Minister for Defence here. Should we take item number 5, before we go into Closed Sitting or we should go into Closed Sitting?
Mr Pelpuo 10:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, let us go to into Closed Sitting and come back.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon Deputy Majority Leader, the Hon Minister for Defence is not here, so let us start some business; when he comes, then we go into the Closed Sitting to discuss the Defence Motion.
Is item number 6 ready?
Mr Pelpuo 10:40 a.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker, it is ready, we can take that.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Very well, Hon Members, item --
Mr Asamoah Ofosu 10:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, on the provisional Order Paper for yesterday, some Questions were advertised; I failed to find them in today's Order Paper and no explanation has been given to that effect, neither have they been advertised for tomorrow; does it mean they are lapsed or what?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:40 a.m.
No, they are not lapsed. But what I know is that from our discussion with the Second Deputy Speaker yesterday after
adjournment, the understanding was that, as much as possible, we should give priority to public business. So we would talk to the Business Committee to reprogramme them at the appropriate time.
Mr Ofosu 10:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I thank you. I do not know, in the case where we are in July, we are rising next week, 3rd August, and in one of the Questions, it is to deal with the provision of classrooms for secondary school children who are entering in September. So if we are dealing with Public Business, I do not know which one could be more urgent than children who are going to school in September, especially, when in August, the House will not be Sitting.
In any case, I thank you for your wise counsel.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:40 a.m.
Hon Member, I said the Business Committee would try to find time to reprogramme it. But as much as possible, we should try and give priority to Public Business.
MOTIONS 10:40 a.m.
Chairman of the Committee (Mr James K. Avedzi) 10:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that this Honourable House adopts the Report of the Finance Committee on the Loan Agreement between the Government of Ghana and Commerzbank AG of Belgium for an amount of €8,210,129.00 for the supply of the second batch of 50 VDL Jonckheere buses and spare parts under Belgian Government Concessionary Finance. 1.0 Introduction
The Loan Agreement between the Government of Ghana and Commerzbank AG of Belgium for an amount of eight million, two hundred and ten thousand, one hundred and twenty-nine euros
(€8,210,129.00) for financing the second batch of 50 VDL Jonckheere buses and spare parts was laid in the House on Friday, 16th July, 2010 in accordance with article 181 of the Constitution.
Pursuant to Order 171(1) of the Standing Orders of the House, the Agreement was referred to the Finance Committee for consideration and report.
The Committee consequently met and considered the Agreement with the Minister for Transport, Hon Mike Allen Hammah, Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning, Hon Seth Terkpeh and technical teams from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning and Ministry of Transport and presents this Report.
2.0 Background
In March 2003, the Ministry of Transport, on behalf of the Government and some financial institutions, incorporated the Metro Mass Transit Limited (MMT) to operate mass transport services throughout the country. The MMT currently operates in all the regional capitals and some major towns and cities in the regions.
Following the actualisation of the Government's policy on the re- introduction of mass transportation, the Belgian Government, in 2006, granted approval for the supply of 150 VDL Jonckheere buses under concessionary financing. All the 150 completed buses have since been delivered to the MMT.
In view of the durability and suitability of the buses to our roads, the then Ministry of Transportation in 2008 made a request for additional buses. The Government of Belgium, through a financial intervention with the Commerzbank AG, Brussels branch, again provided a credit facility for the supply of additional 150 Jonckheere buses to augment MMT's bus fleet for its
expansion programme.
Due to budgetary and production constraints, the Belgian Government has agreed to stagger the financing and the delivery of the buses into three batches of 50 buses per batch. The first batch of 50 buses, together with their spare parts and Global Positioning System (GPS) to track the buses and monitor their movement and usage, have been delivered to the MMT.
In pursuance of the deal, the Belgian Government has made available, a concessionary loan of €8,210,129.00 through the Commerzbank AG, Brussels and an additional grant of €1,896,734.00 for the supply of the second batch of 50 buses.
3.0 Purpose of the Loan
The purpose of the Agreement is to enable Ghana to be supplied with the second batch of 50 VDL Jonckheere buses and spare parts to help boost the operations of the Metro Mass Transit Limited (MMT).
Terms of the Loan
The terms of the Credit Agreement are as follows:
Total contract Amount -- €10,106,863 (including insurance premium)
L O A N A M O U N T - - 10:40 a.m.
Dr Anthony A. Osei(NPP - Old Tafo) 10:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to second Motion number six on the Order Paper and to urge my Hon Colleagues to adopt the Report of the Finance Committee on the Loan Agreement.
Mr Speaker, all of us know that this particular venture has been going on for a while since about 2002. To date, the Government has acquired over 1,400 buses, costing us about US$166 million and all of us have seen the importance of these buses on the street.

Mr Speaker, everybody knows -- or I should not say everybody knows? Let me state that MMTS is a joint public/private venture, where the Government holds about 45 per cent shares and the following private institutions hold the balance: Agricultural Development Bank (ADB), Social Security and National Insurance Trust (SSNIT), National Investment Bank (NIB), State Insurance Company (SIC), Prudential Bank and Goil Ghana Limited.

It is about 2.5 per cent of the shares in treasury, so it is a joint public/private partnership which has been in existence

for a while. The mix of services they provide, basically is that, 42 per cent of the buses are intra city, 30 per cent are rural- urban and about 28 per cent are inter city.

Mr Speaker, if you look at the profitability, it is clear that even though it is making losses on the intra city routes, it is making some profit on the other two, and it is estimated that if we should change the mix to about 50:24:26, it could end up making the yearly profit of about GH¢3 million. What I suggest is that it is a very viable enterprise and we should be encouraged to support it.

This batch of 50 is part of a group of about 150 that we would have to process later on. I think that so far, the performance of the MMT, in spite of its difficulties, I can say has provided -- even though it is public/private venture, the public good that it is providing, is for all Ghanaians and we are benefiting from it.

We have some challenges with respect to management. The current contract of the Managing Director (MD) is about to expire and I suspect the Government, having the majority shares, may have to now be paying from its resources the salary of the MD. The contract of the Technical Director is not going to expire for about three years.

But that is important because the Technical Director is the one that sort of runs the show in its sense, to make sure the buses are in shape.

Even though we have purchased about 1,400, we are informed that, so far, about 800 of them are on the road. What it suggests is that about 600 are not functioning well. We need to decide whether we want to scrap them and use the resource to buy new buses or we need to decide whether they are capable of being repaired and put back on the road.

I want to suggest that the Minister responsible for this area should endeavour to quickly do something about the state of the other 600 buses so that the public would be able to use them. It is true that its
Dr Anthony A. Osei(NPP - Old Tafo) 10:50 a.m.


pricing is slightly below the commercial users and so it is able to capture some of the market.

With those few words, Mr Speaker, I urge all Hon Members to adopt the Report of the Finance Committee that we are discussing.

Question proposed.
Mr Mathias K. Ntow (NDC - Aowin) 10:50 a.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the Motion on the floor.
I think this loan is a very laudable idea and I would urge all Hon Colleagues to support it. But in doing so, Mr Speaker, I have one or two observations to make.
The first one is about the easing of traffic congestion in the city and the question is, are proper arrangements put in place to ensure that even Members of Parliament, particular buses are located to them so that instead of us coming to Parliament House always in private cars, the bus will always be available to convey us to and fro.
Second, it is on the equity distribution of resources in this country. Mr Speaker, we are all aware that some districts are left out. For example, not a single bus could be found in my district as I speak to you now. Meanwhile, we have over 500 buses in this country. [Interruptions.] I can prove it, I am from the district and this is what I am telling you -- [Interruption]
Dr Matthew O. Prempeh 10:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, on a point of order. Mr Speaker, I would like the Hon Member on the floor to tell us -- if the village he comes from has only twenty houses, where is the bus taking the people to? [Laughter.] This is because he said there is no bus in his village.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:50 a.m.
He said his district. Hon Member for Manhyia, he said his district, not his village, and if you do not know his village, why did you say it has twenty houses?
Dr Prempeh 10:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, if it is a district then it is not true because from his district -- [Interruptions] -- I know his district. If he says the whole district, then it is not true because there is a bus that runs from there to Kumasi.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Hon Member for Manhyia, what is the name of his district?
Dr Prempeh 10:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I did not hear you. [Laughter.]
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:50 a.m.
What is the name of his district?
Dr Prempeh 10:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, he is my brother. He is my Hon senior Brother. It is Aowin Suaman District. [Laughter.] Mr Speaker, he is my brother and he knows me and I know him and he knows what I am saying is true, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:50 a.m.
Hon Member, the Hon Prempeh is saying that there is a bus plying between your district and Kumasi.
Mr Ntow 10:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am surprised. When did Hon Prempeh go to my district to see the bus? [Interruptions.]
Mr Speaker, on a more serious note, the fact of the matter is that not a single - not half of the buses - [Interruptions.] Not a half bus -- You cannot get a half bus in my district. We do not have one; not even half of the whole bus can be found. Therefore, my Hon Member for Manhyia, if he tells me that maybe, he took it there recently which I have not seen.
Mr Speaker, I think it is very, very important for service providers and then people who are in authority in this
country, in the distribution of such things to consider all districts, no matter where it is located in the country and no matter how deplorable or how good the road is. This is because, Mr Speaker, we do not expect the good people from Aowin to construct their own roads, it is the responsibility of Government to do that.
Therefore, if my road network is in a very bad shape, then it is not the people that are making it but rather it behoves Government to look at it or to see to it that all roads leading to district capitals are put in proper use.
Dr A. A. Osei 10:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, on a point of order. Mr Speaker, my Hon Colleague from Aowin Suaman said “he urges the Hon Minister for Roads and Transport”. Mr Speaker, I do not know if there is a Minister for Roads and there is a Minister for Transport. If it is a new position, the House ought to know. [Interruptions.] He said “the Hon Minister for Roads and Transport” and I am not aware of anybody that we have appointed as Minister for Roads and Transport. So he may educate me on who is the Minister for Roads and Transport.
Mr Ntow 10:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I think my Senior Colleague did not hear me well - If I made a mistake in mentioning the Hon Minister for Transport and I have added another portfolio, then I think it is a feather in his cap.
But I am urging the Hon Minister for
Roads - [Laughter] -- It is because I have always been dealing with the Hon Minister for Roads and Transport, Hon Joe Gidisu because of the nature of my roads. [Laughter.] Mr Speaker, it is Roads and Highways. [Interruptions.]
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 10:50 a.m.
He has corrected it. He said “Roads and Highways.” He has agreed that there is no Minister for Roads and Transport. It is Roads and Highways.
Mr Ntow 10:50 a.m.
Hon Akoto, relax. I am talking about - [Interruption.]
Dr A. A. Osei 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, Hon (Dr)
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11 a.m.
But why?
Hon Member for Old Tafo, if Dr Akoto is not complaining, you should also not be complaining because he was not referring to you.
Dr A. A. Osei 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, he referred
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11 a.m.
Very well.
Mr Ntow 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, whatever
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11 a.m.
Hon Member, “Akoto” may be very well in
Mr Ntow 11 a.m.
That is right. Mr Speaker,
Dr Owusu A. Akoto 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I would like to lodge a formal complaint of the misuse of my name.
Mr Ntow 11 a.m.
All right, I am sorry. But then the Hon Member should note that -- [Interruptions] - [An Hon Member: It is all right.]
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, the point I want to make is
that there should be equitable distribution of things in this country so that no district is left out unattended to. So on this note, I would urge all Hon Members to approve the Motion so that at least, two of the buses would be sent to my district.
Mr P. C. Appiah 11 a.m.
None

Asikuma/Odoben/Brakwa): Mr Speaker, unfortunately, I oppose the Motion.

Mr Speaker, in the year 2003, the NPP Administration brought a request to Parliament for us to give approval for the purchase of 150 buses -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11 a.m.
Hon Member, since you are opposed to the Motion, speak to the microphone so that we can hear why you are opposed to the Motion.
Mr Appiah-Ofori 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, in the year 2003, the NPP Government brought a request to Parliament for us to give approval for a loan for the purchase of 150 buses for use by MMT. We gave approval, Mr Speaker. In 2006 another request came for us to give approval for another 50 buses. At that time, I was a member of the Finance Committee.
When this matter came before us, I insisted that the MMT should render accounts for the money given to them for the purchase of 150 buses before additional money would be approved. Specifically, I asked that the company should submit to us their audited accounts for the period under review. I also requested that they brought a cash flow statement.
Finally, I also requested that they brought Amortisation Schedule for the repayment of the loan by the MMT so that at the end of the day, it did not become the responsibility of Ghana Government to pay for this - because people would manage it and fail, and because the Government is contracting the loan, the repayment would fall on the Government.
Therefore, on the strength of that, I insisted that we should not give approval. They pleaded that we should allow that and that they would go and bring those documents to us. That is the audited Accounts for the period, cash flow statement and Amortization Schedule. As of today, they have not brought them.
We are now going to give approval for the purchase of another 50 buses, so it means we are dissipating the State resources for their benefit. Is it right?
If they are not ready to account for
the money given to them, if they are not prepared to show us the Amortisation schedule - when I talk about Amortisation Schedule -- how they were going to repay this, so that at the end of the day, the Government would not take money from the Consolidated Fund to pay.
We should not sit down unconcerned for inefficiency to be passed on to the Government as a cost. People will misappropriate State funds, steal, and at the end of the day, it becomes a debt for the Government to pay. So,as far as I am concerned, unless they do this, they bring their audited accounts for the period they have operated, unless they bring their
cash flow statement and unless they bring Amortisation Schedule showing how they will be able to pay the loan, before or by the end of the tenure of the loan, we should not entertain it.
Minister for Roads and Highways (Mr Joe K. Gidisu)(MP) 11 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I rise to associate myself with the Motion on the floor and to give it the needed support.
Mr Speaker, public transport all over the world is one very important area where governments try to make the needed intervention in the movement of goods and services not only in the urban areas but in the rural areas as well. This is not limited or Ghana is not excluded in that wise.
S i n c e i n d e p e n d e n c e , v a r i o u s
governments have attempted in their own way to promote this public transport dating back to the Omnibus Services Authority (OSA) of the early days of the first regime. Ever since that time, variously, succeeding governments have in their own way tried to do same.
Mr Speaker, the last contributor noted the challenges that confront the MMT and which undermine the effectiveness one would have expected.
Mr Speaker, the situation we have witnessed over the years is the parochial government implementation of these policies. He spoke about a period, 2003- 2006. Mr Speaker, if you look at the era he talked about, that era witnessed the importation of right-hand drive vehicles into the system and this was not the best for us as a country to have associated ourselves with. However, as a result of Government policy, it was done.
Mr Speaker, equally very important, is
the type of vehicles that are imported for use by these public transport institutions. If you look at the catalogue of vehicles that were imported, those vehicles from
China - this is not to undermine the effectiveness and for that matter, the quality of vehicles from that country - what is quite challenging is the fact that those vehicles were supposed to have come with the needed back-up spare parts. But - [Interruptions]-- those vehicles from China -- [Interruptions] - Whether buses or vehicles, they are the same --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon Minister, address the issue of relevance. We are talking about a particular bus. I agree that - Even though Hon Appiah- Ofori raised certain issues which did not necessarily relate to this Motion, I allowed him because it is the same company which is going to be the beneficiary of these same buses. It is on that basis that I allowed him. So, you should address the issue of relevance in your submission on the floor.
Mr J. K. Gidisu 11:10 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the point I am making is that, if you looked at the background of those buses that were imported at that time and the nature of the roads that these buses ran on, the buses were not rugged enough -- [Interruption]
Mr Dery 11:10 a.m.
On a point of order. Mr Speaker, I thought that my dear Friend on the other side of the House was going to take a cue from what you said, of relevance. We do not want to descend into unnecessary politicking. If we did that then we will also be prepared to go to the fact that public transport was privatised under the regime of the former NDC.
Let us focus on what has support of this House, that is the Report and let us move forward. But if we are going to refer to that era, “this is what happened”, we are going to go back to that era where STC, OSA and City Express were all privatised. It is not necessary. Please, take a cue and let us restrict ourselves to this Report and get the work done.
Mr J. K. Gidisu 11:10 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I just want us equally to take a cue from those developments and see how best to address
Mr J. K. Gidisu 11:10 a.m.


them --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon Minister, we have a Motion and the Motion is to adopt the Report of the Finance Committee for the 50 VDL buses. I think that you should limit yourself to the Motion before us. I think that if you want to make preliminary remarks, we have passed there. You have made that preliminary remarks and we should make progress.
Hon Member for Sekondi?
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11:10 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I associate myself with this Motion and urge - [Interruptions] - [An Hon Member: He has not finished.] - Oh, sorry, Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon Minister, go ahead and conclude, then I will call the Hon Member for Sekondi.
Mr J. K. Gidisu 11:10 a.m.
Well, I think the Hon Member for Sekondi wanted to take over earlier than expected.
Mr Speaker, the hard fact about this situation is that, we need these buses in the system. I am happy the type of buses that are on the floor for support this morning are buses that are rugged enough to stand the terrains. And I am hoping that my Hon Colleague will have one of those buses running from Enchi to other parts of his district by way of improving the road network in that area.
With these comments, I urge Hon Members to support the Motion.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon Members, I am going to take the Hon Member for Sekondi, defer this matter and then we go into a Closed Sitting. So, after hearing the Hon Member for Sekondi, we will defer this matter and move into Closed Sitting.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah (NPP - Sekondi) 11:10 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I associate myself with the Motion and urge my Hon
Colleagues to support it.
Mr Speaker, but I would also have to emphasise that whatever funds are being sought by government for a public-private partnership as this is presently, then we ought to ensure that they account properly for what has been given them. So, the Hon Member for Asikuma/Odoben/Brakwa, Mr P. C. Appiah-Ofori is right.
However, it is my view that after we have approved this Motion, the relevant sector committee of the House should exercise that oversight responsibility, which I believe, is what concerns the Hon Member for Asikuma/Odoben/Brakwa, which I believe we should be doing more often.
Mr Speaker, the name of the company now is Metro Mass; presumably, it is supposed to be urban-based. But from the briefing that we had, if this company concentrates on the urban areas, it is not going to make any profit. It is supposed to operate on commercial basis. And one of the reasons we had breakdown of buses was when they decided to use the buses inter-city.
You go into rural areas with certain buses; the buses will never sustain the pressures of the road. So, while I agree with the Hon Minister for Roads Highways, if this buses are to go to the rural areas, where they are most needed and where they make most profits, we ought to fix the roads.
So, I urge the Hon Minister for Roads and highways to collaborate with his colleague, the Hon Minister responsible for Transport so that those who need these services most will get them.
Having said that Mr Speaker, I believe that we ought to strengthen the Metro Mass. Presently, government has pumped in so much money. We have urged the Hon Minister for Transport to ensure that it is reflected in the shareholding structure.
As government, we owe a responsibility to the people of this country and even in the developed economies, we have public transport.
The original idea of the MMT was to get government to support it so that it can sustain itself and then encourage the private sector to acquire shares. I believe it is also important that while we are approving this, the relevant Ministry pursues this most vigorously.
We have come far as a nation. Mr Speaker, we have come very far as a nation. And I appreciate the issues raised by the Hon Member for Aowin. I believe that his district, together with the districts in the northern sector, are the most deprived in this country, considering the resources that come from those areas. And I share in his concerns, particularly his appeal to the Hon Minister for Roads and Highways.
That is because every time we have rains, part of the northern sector of the Western Region is cut off. And I believe, since the Hon Minister for Roads and Highways himself has said that, “oh, we need spread development evenly”. Having regard to the deprived nature of infrastructure in the northern part of the Western Region, he would consider it a priority.
With these few words, Mr Speaker, I urge Hon Members to support this Motion
Thank you, very much.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:10 a.m.
Hon Members, before we move into Closed Sitting or otherwise, on this Motion, I want to find out from Hon Appiah-Ofori whether he has agreed to the suggestion from the Hon Member for Sekondi that we should get the relevant Select Committee to go into this matter and report to the House so that at the end of the debate, I can
make the relevant consequential orders, so that we can then take the Vote.
Mr Appiah-Ofori 11:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker, it appears the points I raised were not considered. You see, we of this House -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Hon Member, I am asking you whether - you made a suggestion that the relevant Select Committee should take up the matter and then report to the House at the appropriate time. And I am asking you whether you agree. In that case, you would be withdrawing your position.
Mr Appiah-Ofori 11:20 a.m.
No, I have not - we should stay action on it, unless they bring us those documents I have asked for - the cash flow statement, the amortisation statement - I want us to see them, so that we satisfy ourselves that at the end of the day, the Government will no be called upon to take money from the Consolidated Fund to pay. We have to sit down and do the right thing. We should stop condoning and conniving -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:20 a.m.
Hon Member, you are entitled to your view and you have spoken.
Mr Appiah-Ofori 11:20 a.m.
Yes.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:20 a.m.
I am only asking you a very simple question. So, if you say no, you say no.
Mr Appiah-Ofori 11:20 a.m.
I say, no.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:20 a.m.
So, kindly take your seat.
Mr Appiah-Ofori 11:20 a.m.
If other Hon Members do not agree with me, fine. But I say no. Let us get the documents and do the right thing.
MOTIONS 11:20 a.m.
Chairman of the Committee (Mr James K. Avedzi) 11:20 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that this Honourable House adopts the Report of the Finance Committee on the Buyer's Credit Agreement between the Government of the Republic of Ghana and Poly Technologies Inc. of Beijing, China, for an amount of One hundred million United States dollars (US$100,000,000.00) for the procurement of strategic equipment to re-equip the Ghana Army and the Ghana Air Force and also improve barracks accommodation for the soldiers.
1.0 Introduction
The Buyer's Credit Agreement between the Government of the Republic of Ghana and Poly Technologies Inc. of the Poly Group of Beijing, China for an amount of US$100 million for the procurement of strategic equipment to re-equip the Ghana Army and the Ghana Air Force and also improve barracks accommodation for the soldiers was laid in the House on Friday, 16th July, 2010 in accordance with article 181 of the Constitution.
Pursuant to Order number 171(1) of the Standing Orders of the House, the Agreement was referred to the Finance Committee for consideration and report.
The Committee met and considered the Agreement with the Minister for Defence, Hon Lt Gen. J. H. Smith (retd), Deputy Minister Finance and Economic Planning, Hon Seth Terkpeh and technical teams from the Ministries of Defence and Finance and Economic Planning and presents this Report.
2.0 Background
P a r l i a m e n t i n M a r c h , 2 0 0 8
approved an Agreement between the Government of Ghana (acting through the Ministry of Defence/Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning) and Poly Technologies Inc. of China under which Poly Technologies Inc. of China granted two credit facilities amounting to one hundred and sixty million United States dollars (US$160,000,000) to the Government of Ghana to purchase strategic equipment for the Ghana Armed Forces to be used for both internal security operations and UN peacekeeping operations. That Agreement has been successfully implemented.
F o l l o w i n g t h e s u c c e s s f u l implementation of the project, Poly Technologies Inc. has agreed to provide additional one hundred million United States dollars (US$100 million) credit facility to further improve the combat readiness of the Ghana Armed Forces and also to provide descent barracks accommodation for the soldiers.
3.0 Purpose of the Credit
The purpose of the Buyer's Credit Agreement is to enable the Ghana Armed Forces to procure strategic equipment and also to improve barracks accommodation for the soldiers.
3.1 Terms of the Credit
The terms of the Credit are as follows:
Principal Loan Amount -- US$100,000,000
SeaFreight transport charges and insurance at a rate of 10per cent of US$50,000,000 -- US$5,000,000
Credit insurance

Premium at 5per cent -- US$5,000,000

Subtotal -- US$110,000,000

Interest rate at 5per cent p/a -- US$11,687,500 Total contract value -- US$121,687,500

Repayment period -- 5 years (10 semi-annual installments) 3.1 Repayment terms

The total credit facility is to be repaid over a period of five (5) years:

(a) Ghana Government is required to pay the sum of three million United States dollars (US$3,000,000.00) within six (6) months after signing the contract.

(b ) Fu l l advance paymen t

consisting of 20 per cent of the total CIF value, that is, US$22,000,000.00. The Buyer (i.e. GoG) shall, within one year after signing the Contract and receiving notification from the seller that they get initial approval, transfer by T/T the full advance payment of US$22,000,000 to the Seller's account.

(c) The remaining amount shall be paid half yearly (6 months) at rate of 7.7273 per cent of CIF value in accordance with the deferred payment schedule stipulated in article 8.3.2 of the Agreement.

(d) The Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning of the Republic of Ghana shall, within 60 days after signing the Contract and receiving notification from the seller that they get initial approval, issue a Performance Guarantee for deferred payment in favour of the Seller and acceptable by the Seller, covering 80 per cent of the total contract CIF value less
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Chairman of the Committee, before I call on the Hon Ranking Member to second the Motion, can you clarify why your Report is saying that the total contract value is US$121,687,500? You have captured it in the Report, yet what we have in the Motion is talking about US$100 million?
I want you to clarify that and let us be very sure before we adopt it. This is because we are now adopting your Report and it is saying that the amount is US$121,687,500, meanwhile, the Motion is having US$100 million. How do you reconcile that before I call on the Hon Ranking Member to second the Motion?
Mr Avedzi 11:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Motion is for the loan amount that we are contracting and the loan amount is US$100 million. But the contract amount is US$121 million because of the costs that are incurred in addition to the loan amount itself.
If you look at the term sheet, the loan amount is US$100 million but the insurance, that is, the sea freight transport charges and insurance of US$5 million will be borne outright by Government. The credit insurance premium of 5 per cent will also be borne outright by Government.The interest rate at 5 per cent will also be borne outright by Government.
That is why, if you look at the payment
terms, Government is to pay, within six months of the contract, US$3 million deposit and then another US$22 million full advance payment. So, those additional costs are going to be borne by Government.
That is why the Motion is talking about US$100 million but the contract sum is US$121 million.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
So, the
contract sum is different from the loan amount?
Mr Avedzi 11:30 a.m.
Exactly.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Very well.
Dr Anthony A. Osei (NPP - Old Tafo) 11:30 a.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing me to second the Motion numbered 10 on page 4 of the Order Paper.
Mr Speaker, as the Chairman has ably read in his Report to the House, there are two components of this Buyer's Credit Agreement. I emphasise Buyer's Credit Agreement because sometimes we get confused, we do not understand it but we argue. It is a Buyer's Credit Agreement, it is not a Supplier's Credit Agreement like we were doing with the STX; there is a difference. But there are two components -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
What is
the difference? You started by saying that people get confused and then you said there is a difference.
Dr A. A. Osei 11:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, essentially, Poly Technologies -- I simplified it by saying that it is like buying it on credit but paying as various times. So you are not getting the loan at such but it is that you get the product and you have a schedule of payment. In the other case, there is a particular credit facility and it is a loan. So it is similar but with this buyer's thing, the Government of Ghana is willing to allow
Mr Speaker, I emphasised that there are two components 11:30 a.m.
US$50 million for the equipment. By the way, because of the nature of the activity, the Committee gave the Chairman and I the opportunity of receiving it from them. I do not know if this House wants to make it part of the official record. But if it is, we have it but we do have copies of the various equipment.
My advice is that because of the equipment, we should not include that in the Hansard, but if we want to keep it for our records, it should be available. Once we put it in the Hansard, it becomes public record and anybody elsewhere would see what equipment our Armed Forces -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Hon
Member, that is why we are having a Closed Sitting and anybody who discloses any matter at Closed Sitting is in gross breach of privilege.
Dr A. A Osei 11:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, thank you. So that it would not be in the Hansard, I will not bother to go through it but it is available. I want to --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Make a
copy available to the Chair.
Dr A. A. Osei 11:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not
need it, so -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
At the end
of the day, who will sit down to know what goes into the official record and what is not in the official record under the rules?
Dr A. A. Osei 11:30 a.m.
I would be glad to
give my copy to the Chair so that I do not -- [Interruption] -- But the Chair wants to see it first before--
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
When you finish making your submission, you can submit it.
Dr A. A. Osei 11:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the US$50 million worth of equipment is what I have
- 11:30 a.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Hon Member, at Closed Sitting, it is the Speaker who directs in which form the record would be captured. So at the end of the day, we will know what to put in the official record.
Dr A. A. Osei 11:30 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I am just making the request that for this part - I am making a proposal that it would inure to the benefit of this House that people know that we are providing -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:30 a.m.
Go ahead.
Dr A. A. Osei 11:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, so I
think on the need for rehabilitation and maintenance of the current structures, all of us should be in favour of it and I would want to urge my Colleagues to do that. For example, they need to fence their properties at Ofankor lands, otherwise, people will encroach. We recall that there is some property around the Golden Tulip area where encroachers took over completely and that is not good for the military. For fencing of military lands around the Burma Camp, another US$1 million.
Mr Speaker, the Chairman has explained the difference between the contract price and the loan amount. Mr Speaker, it is also important to know, and here again, I want to entreat the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning that the US$3 million and US$20 million advance payment that is required is very crucial because without that commitment, Poly Technologies is unable to begin supplying
the equipment. So, I want to urge that if it is not available in this year's Budget, certainly, down payment ought to be made so that it can start.

Mr Speaker, the payment period is five years in half yearly instalments. So, it would be necessary for adequate provision to be made in the next five year Budgets to cover the amount of US$37,867,500 and this is also very crucial.

The Committee on Defence and Interior

in particular should be mindful of this potential liability and ensure that when we look at the military's budget, this amount is available. At the minimum, even if we are not going to give them a cedi, these amounts for next year must be available to ensure that they can reap the benefits from there.

So, I want to appeal to my Chairman that come October, November, his mind should be adverted to this particular amount so that we do not lose track of it aside of the earlier one that we just approved.

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I want to urge all Members of Parliament here present to approve the US$100 million loan, US$50 million of which is going to be used to supply equipment from a company whose record the military can attest to, and US$50 million to rehabilitate sewerage facilities and accommodation, and maintenance of structures for the Ghana Armed Forces.

Question proposed.

Alhaji Sumani Abukari (NDC -

Tamale North): Mr Speaker, I wonder why a Member who is a member of my Committee stood up when I the Chairman was on my feet. I think that in future he should not do that -- [Interruption]-- Next time a member of the Committee of Defence and Interior should not stand up when I, the Chairman, am on my feet -- [Laughter.]

Mr Hackman Owusu-Agyemang

--rose -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Hon
Member for Tamale North, you are completely out of order. There is no rule in this House like that.
Mr Owusu-Agyemang 11:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker
-- 11:40 a.m.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
Hon
Member, I have already ruled him out.
Alhaji Abukari 11:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, we have

Mr Speaker, I beg to support the Motion on the floor, moved by the Chairman of the Finance Committee. Mr Speaker, I think that this is another very important Motion before us and which we must all support.

Mr Speaker, I want to remind the Ranking Member that as a member of the Committee, we should all think about the requirements of the military when it comes to the budget session. I will take this opportunity, if the Deputy Minister for Finance and Economic Planning would listen, to tell him to ensure that provision is made for the Army to take care of its requirements as outlined by the Ranking Member.

So, I will count on the support of the Ministry of Finance and Economic Planning in giving their allocations this year and also again ensure that the

allocations are not just allocations but that they actually meet the allocations in cash, not on paper. We do not want paper allocations or paper promises.

Mr Speaker, the Ghana Armed Forces,

as was said by the immediate past Minister for Defence, is one of the best in Africa. In fact, we can keep singing their praises until “kingdom come”. But I must say that unfortunately, it is not properly equipped, even though they are doing their best with the equipment that we have for them. Since it is a Closed Sitting, we can say that every member of the Armed Forces, if they were to stand in line and it was asked that they be given a gun each, I do not think each of them will get one. Not all of them will get a gun.

Number two, the guns that we have are not the latest guns on the market. We ought to have them equipped with the latest brand of equipment and the latest brand of firearms so that they can continue to give of their best as they do right now. In fact, all of us should be proud of them, and to show that we are proud of them; let us support these types of loans for their improvement when they come before us.

Mr Speaker, the Hon Ranking Member

has talked about the improvement of certain facilities within the Army. I have gone round most of the barracks in the country with my Committee. Mr Speaker, it is sad to see the state of the facilities in the barracks. I will give an example of the Tamale Military Hospital, what we call “Mile Six”, at Kamina Barracks. It used to be the only health facility that was supporting the health of the people of at least, one-third of Tamale.

Now, the roof is almost coming down onto the floor. There is not a clinic, any more ; we cannot call it a clinic even not to talk of hospital. The messes of the barracks around the country are in a very sorry state. I do not know how we are able to maintain the morale of the men and officers of the Army, which is very

essential for their performance. Mr Speaker, there are so many things

that are wrong with the Army that I even think that - I will say humbly to the Hon Minister for Defence that they have to come again, and again, and again, if we are to improve the facilities and equipment and make our Armed Forces battle ready. They have to come again and again and ensure that they improve on the facilities and that we properly equip them to perform the way we want them to perform. So, this is just for me, a tip of the iceberg, more should come later.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I

would pray the House to endorse this loan, approve it and we of the Committee on Defence and Interior will make sure that we exercise our supervisory role to ensure that this loan is spent for the purpose for which it has been acquired.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I will sit down and allow any other member of my Committee to talk.

Mr Stephen K. B. Manu (NPP -

Ahafo Ano South): ‘Mr Speaker, I rise to contribute to the Motion and I declare my support for the Motion right from the start.

Mr Speaker, when it comes to issues

bordering the military, and sometimes the police, the fire service, the immigration - the security forces - we have to be dispassionate in discussing them. I do not want to go into the history of the Ghana Armed Forces. It has been in existence for ages, certainly, before I was born - [Interruption] - and the situation in which they find themselves today has been the same as when it started, particularly when it --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:40 a.m.
How old are you?
Mr Manu 11:40 a.m.
E-r-r, I am a little over
50 years -- [Some Hon Members: Eh!] - Oh yes, I am 52. I hope Mr Speaker may be a little older than I am.
But the point I am making is that, the accommodation situation of our military people has not changed much from what they started from.
If you go to Bantama, Kumasi, you will
find some round houses - gida-gida, they call them. This is still where our military men are staying and are supposed to have the mental state of readiness for combat if it should happen.
Mr Speaker, if you visit our friends, brothers, relations who are in the military or police or the forces, you are first met with fridges and gas-cookers before you even meet the person you are going to visit, because the room is such that nothing apart from the bed can be in it. These are the people we turn to in times of crises. Meanwhile, they have nowhere to lay their heads.
It has been said that good thinking comes from the pillow, and when the person does not have a good pillow, how do you want to have a good state of mind from this person? This is why governments over the years should have committed themselves to improving the lot of our military men.
Papa Owusu-Ankomah 11:50 a.m.
Well, I do
not know, it is on a question of relevance. But the Hon Member mentioned the Armed Forces, the Navy and Air Force. I do not know what he meant by that. I thought the Armed Forces encompass the three arms of the military. So, apart from the question of relevance, probably, he
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Hon
Member, kindly address the issue of relevance. We are talking about particular Motion which is very clear - Motion number 10. And as you rightly said from the beginning, you did not intend to go into history. So, spare us some of the history.
Mr Manu 11:50 a.m.
Thank you. I have the
Report before me, Mr Speaker, and the Report is talking about accommodation for the Armed Forces - “soldiers”, he wants me to say. I am not a “military man, so I may not know the difference between a “soldier” and a “military” man.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Hon
Member, address the Chair.
Mr Manu 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, if he wants me to say “soldiers”, I would say so.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Hon
Minister for Employment and Social Welfare, do you have a point of order?
Mr E. T. Mensah 11:50 a.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
My Hon Colleague is out of order.
He has been stating that there was stiff opposition against President Kufuor's Government for taking care of the Armed Forces. When you roll it back, previous governments have done their best as far as the Armed Forces is concerned. The PNDC and NDC did their best and he
(President Kufuor) was only to continue. So if what was brought needed to be criticised, that did not mean that they were opposed. Aspects of some of the things that were brought were criticised. So, he should just get on with his submission.
Mr Dery 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I just wanted
to point out that the Hon Minister's intervention is rather belated because you have already referred to the fact that he should say what is relevant and cut out the rest. So we would advise that he keeps the narrow path.
Mr Manu 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, sometimes
one speaks loudly when one is silent. So, in reaction to the Hon Minister for Employment and Social Welfare, I would just keep my silence and say that we thank God that today, a loan is being contracted to provide accommodation for our soldiers. Because -
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Hon
Member, I did not want to intervene but it is a matter of public record that both sides of the House have over the years supported any facility that will improve the facilities of the Ghana Armed Forces. What both sides have always disagreed on, as a matter of record, is with regard to planes. So, Hon Member, kindly address the issue and then we make progress.
Mr Manu 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, if you
Mr Avedzi 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I heard the
Hon Member saying that we are approving loans to buy planes. And for record purposes, we are only buying ships, not planes. So that should be corrected.
Mr Manu 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, they are all
under the Hon Minister for Defence and they are equipment for the military. So if the Navy needs a ship and it is being bought, why should we not buy an aircraft for the Air Force?
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Hon
Minister, do you have a point of order?
Mr Manu 11:50 a.m.
When I am speaking, do
not try to intervene because you wake up sleeping dogs when you try to do that.
Mr E. T. Mensah 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Member said they are all under the Ministry of Defence. There are other things other than ships and aircraft under the Ministry of Defence. So, what is he talking about?
Mr Manu 11:50 a.m.
What I am talking about is that just as the Navy needs ships, so the Air Force needs airplanes. But that was met with opposition as has been collaborated by Mr Speaker.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Hon
Member, you would do well to take me out of this debate.
Mr Manu 11:50 a.m.
Yes, Sir. Advice taken.
So to wind up, Mr Speaker, as I said, I support the Motion in totality but I am expecting -
rose
Mr First Deputy Speaker 11:50 a.m.
Hon Member, do you have a point of order?
Alhaji Abukari 11:50 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I want to
correct one error made by my Hon Brother. The loans for the purchase of aircrafts were approved in this House. I was the Hon Ranking Member for Defence, so I know that they were approved in this House. We are only discussing which planes should be bought first. But in the end, we approved the loans for the purchase of the planes.
I am only saying that it was opposed and there is a world of difference between opposing something and approving the thing. You may oppose it and yet it would get approved by the numbers.
Finally, Mr Speaker, I am waiting on the Hon Minister for Defence -
Mr E. T. Mensah noon
Mr Speaker,
there is a world of difference between “opposition” and “criticism”. We criticise aspects of the presentation, especially the one which came in cloak of presidential jet. We did not oppose it, we eventually approved of it. So that dichotomy should be properly located in this context.
Mr Dery noon
Mr Speaker, I think I would
crave your indulgence so that you manage this debate in a manner that would let us arrive at the conclusion sooner rather than later. But my good Friend, the Hon Minister for Employment and Social Welfare is only throwing in more red herrings into this whole matter.
I think if we are talking of opposing and criticising, in my opinion, it is semantics. The important thing is that the House finally approved it; that is a fact and nobody can run away from that.
I think we should allow the Hon Member of Parliament to round up his argument and I think that if you realise, both Motions relate to the military.
You would find most of us walking down the same road, of the needs of the military and how good the military is. Probably, we should take a cue after him, just take one or two more and then we take a Vote on this matter and go back to deal with other issues that are outstanding.
Mr First Deputy Speaker noon
Hon Member, kindly conclude.
Mr Manu noon
In conclusion, Mr Speaker, I started by talking about the barracks in Kumasi. I am looking forward to seeing a day when something would be brought in this House for a loan or a facility to relocate the Kumasi barracks; is that the 4BN? I think we need to give them better accommodation. So I am looking forward to seeing a day that a facility would be brought into this House for a loan to rebuild the 2BN to modern standards.
On this note, Mr Speaker, as I have said, I support the Motion.
Mr First Deputy Speaker noon
Hon Members, I will take the last two; that is the Hon Minister for Communications and the Hon Member for New Juaben North, then I will call on the Minister, if he has anything to say.
Hon Minister for Communications.
Minister for Communications (Mr Haruna Iddrisu) (MP) noon
Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to associate myself with the Motion for the adoption of the Report of the Finance Committee on the Buyer's Credit Agreement between the Republic of Ghana and Poly Technologies Inc. of Beijing, China for the amount of US$100 million, for the procurement of strategic equipment to re-equip the Ghana Army and the Ghana Air Force and also improve barracks accommodation for the soldiers.
Mr Speaker, in doing so, let me urge
Hon Members to support this Motion, and may I refer you to article 210 (3) of the Constitution, which provides and with your indulgence, I quote:
“The Armed Forces shall be equipped and maintained to perform their role of defence of Ghana as well as such other functions for the development of Ghana as the President may determine.”
Mr Speaker, this simply provides an obligation on Government to maintain and equip the Ghana Armed Forces. Mr Speaker, if you refer to your Committee's Report, in particular page 4, running to page 5, the last paragraph, and with your permission Mr Speaker, I quote again:
“The Committee was informed that the Ghana Armed Forces a r e cu r r en t ly f ac ing acu t e housing accommodation. The accommodation available at the barracks is very inadequate for the sizes of family in the barracks. A large number of the soldiers are accommodated outside the barracks due to non-completion of various projects.”
Mr Speaker, part of this loan, as we are adequately informed, is to support the accommodation for the Armed Forces. If you visited any of the garrisons or barracks, whether the Tamale Kamina Barracks or the Bawa Barracks as I see daily, you will see a number of uncompleted projects. Therefore, the decision of the Committee to use part of the money, US$50 million to complete those uncompleted projects, would not only be giving assurance and support in terms of dealing with the accommodation needs of the Armed Forces, but also deal with potential waste of earlier monies or investments that had gone into these buildings, yet they are not being utilised. A completion of the projects will only give meaning and realisation to the earlier
objective.
And if you drive through the Bawa Barracks or Mile 9 as I refer to in Tamale, you would just see the buildings all along; some of them have been standing 10, 20 years uncompleted. So it is therefore, commendable that some resources or part of this loan is being made available to support the completion of those projects.
Mr Speaker, strategic equipment to equip the Ghana Armed Forces is also a matter of concern, and one is happy that the Armed Forces are being adequately equipped in order that they would perform their constitutional role of defending our territories well.
On this note Mr Speaker, I associate myself with the motion.
Finally, Mr Speaker, just for the records, we appreciate that Government is accordingly upholding the values of the Directive Principles of State Policy. If you go to paragraph 2.0, the background, reference is made that early on this Honourable House, and it did not say this side or that side; it indicates that this Honourable House approved US$160 million under the previous Administration; reference is March, 2008. It means the House -
Mr First Deputy Speaker noon
The Hon
Member for Akropong, Mr. W. O. Boafo made an allusion to that point.
Mr H. Iddrisu noon
Mr Speaker, so for the
records, this is just a further development on an earlier facility to do same, and I think is appropriate that we recognise that when it comes to the security agencies, we owe them a responsibility to ensure that they are up to the task with equipments
and we support them in terms of their accommodation.
With this Mr Speaker, I associate myself with the motion.
Mr First Deputy Speaker noon
Hon Member for New Jaben North, brief comment.
Mr Hackman Owusu-Agyemang (NPP - New Juaben North) noon
Mr Speaker, I would like to associate myself with the Motion and ask for its approval. But in so doing, I am really sorry that the Chairman of the Committee on Defence and Interior is not here.
Mr Speaker, I, as a member of the Committee, I am very confused about what is being sought for. First of all, the payment of US$3 million payment seems as if that is the mobilisation; I do not know. And then the of US$22 million come later. What is important is, one would like to know whether in six months or it is going to start immediately, once the money is paid. That has to be clarified.
But most importantly, Mr Speaker, having glanced from my Ranking Member, the list of equipment and things to buy, it is absolutely unacceptable that the Committee on Defence and Interior had no knowledge of this. Indeed, they have to ask, and the Report says the Ministry of Defence graciously gave them the list. Mr Speaker, how can the Chairman of the Committee say he is going to supervise it when he does not know what they are supposed to buy -
Mr First Deputy Speaker noon
Hon Member, that is why the Chair asked for the record and therefore, at the appropriate time, when it is requested by the relevant Committee, it would be made available. That is why I requested for the record.
Mr Owusu-Agyemang 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if that is your ruling, fine, but the second one which the Hon Ranking Member asked to be put there -- Again but having seen it today, the completion of the three- storey building and what have you and the rest as well as ambulances et cetera. We have a National Ambulance Service, and I have said again and again that there seems to be a disconnect between the various Ministries , what they are doing and what the others are doing; National Ambulance Service we have.
So is the linkage in there? Again, what is the linkage between, for example, when we had the crisis in electricity, it was Burma Camp which was giving electricity to the national grid. And now, if they want to spend US$10 million on electricity, we need to know, for what and for where? Because they came to the rescue, so to speak, “of the nation” by giving them electricity to the national grid. So as far as I am concerned, Burma Camp is well supplied with electricity. So where is this US$10 million going? This is what Hon Kan-Dapaah said, and Mr Speaker, we cannot lose sight of it that if we need to have the oversight responsibility, then we need to know what they are going to do. The list that I see, I could go on and on and on.
My point, Mr Speaker, is that the list that you have, which I had the privilege of also glancing through before it was being passed to you, and the list that the Ranking Member has,demands that your Committee on Defence and Interior has access to them, otherwise, you cannot supervise anything. And I believe we have to do things properly in this House.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Hon
Member, we are not talking about those helicopters for the United Nations peacekeeping. There is a particular Motion before us.
Mr Owusu-Agyemang 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, you are not part of the debate. Are you part of the debate? You are not part of the debate --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Hon
Member, look at your rules, if a Member is deviating, the Chair has the right to call him to order. Look at your Standing Orders well.
Mr Owusu-Agyemang 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am not saying you cannot call me to order, but I was talking about the equipment for the United Nation's Peacekeeping Force and you were talking about something else. So we are not talking about the same thing, Mr Speaker. I have the right to say that.
Mr Speaker, so we need to know what precisely is happening there and we must approve this. But to be honest, I am not happy. I am sorry that the Chairman is not here; I am not happy at all about the fact that those of us who know the details and what have you and the rest, were not involved in this. And the details have to be asked, extracted from the Ministry of Defence because we do not have them.
In 1997 Mr Speaker, you know very well, when Alhaji Mahama Iddrisu was a Minister for Defence, we all went into that room there and we were taken through the Motion but here, we are not taken through the Motion --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Hon
Member, I do not want to be in the Chair and provide information or certain works
that I have done in the area of defence of this country. All those things that you went to do at Burma Camp, I did the research for late Justice D. F. Annan for you to do some of those things that you did. I did the research for the late Justice Annan and all over the world, there are limitations with regard to matters affecting the Ministry of Defence. I carried out research for the late Justice Annan to give the necessary guidelines for what you did at that time, from 1997 to 2007 to take place.
Hon Ranking Member, you were on
your feet earlier?
Dr A. A. Osei 12:10 p.m.
I was only just going
to provide a bit of comfort to my senior Colleague, that by coincidence, the Finance Committee happens to have five of the members of the Defence and Interior Committee, including the Chairman. So all is not completely lost, that the Chairman and some of us happened to be in the Finance Committee. So he should take little comfort of that.
Mr Dery 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think while I
appreciate the concerns that are expressed by my Senior, my Uncle, I think we walked down this road yesterday. It is clear what the Standing Orders have said, allocated functions and roles to various committees. When it comes to finance, it should go to the Finance Committee. But all those arrangements relate to other sectors and we say that special cases could be made and then the Chair or the Speaker will rule.
So let us take - in this matter, no special case has been made and therefore, the Finance Committee has brought its Report and there is considerable consensus here that both sides support it. So let us go ahead and deal with it, then it is left to us to provide information to the oversight committees to exercise effective oversight. And that any time we think there is a special case, let us make it.
But by all means, let us not always
go back each time there is an agreement to talk, because there is no gainsay that because all the loans relate to other Ministries or other sectors. So as a rule, this is within it and Mr Speaker, let us go ahead.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:10 p.m.
Hon
Deputy Minority Leader, I entirely agree with you. My Colleague, the Second Deputy Speaker made a very beautiful ruling on this matter yesterday, and I endorsed the ruling yesterday, hundred per cent and I do not want us to go and revisit that matter again. Anybody who wants to revisit it must come by a substantive Motion. The rules are clear and therefore, to the extent that you are bringing back that matter, you are out of order, Hon Member for New Juaben North.
Mr Owusu-Agyemang 12:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker,
it looks as if today you have decided not to listen to me too well. I was not bringing the matter up. I said Hon E. T. Mensah did mention the fact, referring to Hon Kwaku Balado Manu, what he said and I am just referring to the fact that the GH¢120 million was used for - the GH¢160 million by the Hon Member, when he was Minister, was used for UN peacekeeping operations, partly. So it was not the same thing. That is all I am saying. And I do not know why today you decided that whatever I say, is not the right thing.
Mr Speaker, I told you that we approve of it but I think you should never lose sight that the civilians must control the military and the Armed Forces. That is why it has come here. And if it has come here, being a civilian -- I went to the Army for only one day and I must be able to make my views known. So Mr Speaker, I think we are singing from the same song sheet and we need to know precisely what they

[LT GEN. SMITH (RETD)][MR DERY]

are doing, so that the instructions can be given. I do not think it is a big issue here at all. I support it but I would like to know; and eventually, they will make the list available to us, so we can do the oversight responsibility that is due us and to avoid duplication. This is because I think there is quite a bit of duplication in the whole system.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:20 p.m.
Thank
you very much, Hon Member for New Juaben North.
I will now put the Question.
Hon Minister for Defence, do you have
anything to say?

Minister for Defence(Lt Gen. J. H.

Smith (retd) ): Mr Speaker, I would again like to thank the Honourable House for the deliberations so nicely made on the Motion before them this afternoon.

I just want to say a bit about the concerns of the Hon Member. Most of these were brought out during my meeting with the Finance Committee last Friday. The issue of the GH¢160 million, I did explain to the Committee, that GH¢70 million of that amount was used to re- quip our five theatres in the peacekeeping operations. And then GH¢40 million was used for two naval vessels that are being manufactured in China and would be delivered by this time next year.

Another 20 million is being used by the Air Force to construct two new hangers in Takoradi and I did mention to the Committee that the hangers we have for the three bases were built during the Second World War and they are virtually

giving up now.

The last GH¢30 million is being used by the Army to buy various strategic equipment. This was explained to the Committee.

The issue of the electrification, you

did mention that provision was made for Burma Camp. Yes, but we have ten garrisons and all the garrisons are being taken care of now and this is why we made that provision.

On that note, Mr Speaker, I thank you

very much for the day.

Question put and motion agreed to.
HEREBY RESOLVES AS 12:20 p.m.
Mr Avedzi 12:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.
Question put and motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Hon
Members, thank you for your support and co-operation. That brings us to the end of the Closed Sitting for today.
Hon Minister, we are grateful for
attending upon the House with your team of experts.

We now move on to other Public

Business.

We have the University of Ghana Bill, 2010 at the Consideration Stage.
MOTIONS 1:20 p.m.
  • [Resumption of debate from column 3217]
    • Mr Ambrose P. Dery (NPP - Lawra/ Nandom) 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I rise to support the Motion, and in doing so, I want to reiterate and emphasise some point that was made.
    Mr Speaker, these buses have shown
    that they can ply the rural roads. This is because when I was privileged to be Minister in the Upper West Region, we got some of these buses in the Upper West Region and contrary to initial proposal by the company, that these buses be restricted to tarred roads, we got the intervention of the then Minister for Roads and Transport
    RESOLUTIONS 1:20 p.m.
    THIS HONOURABLE HOUSE 1:20 p.m.
    H E R E B Y R E S O LV E S A S 1:20 p.m.
    Mr J. K. Avedzi 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.
    Question put and motion agreed to.
    Resolved accordingly.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Deputy Majority Leader --
    Mr Pelpuo 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we have
    been working on the University of Ghana Bill, 2010 and we have some outstanding issues, and I pray that we take it and be able to finish today so that we can take the SADA Bill because these are all time bound.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Hon
    Member, come again?
    Mr Pelpuo 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I am saying
    that item 12, the University of Ghana Bill, 2010, we have been working on it and it is our expectation that we take it now and finish it so that we can take on the SADA Bill as well, because these are all time-bound. We should try to finish them before we rise.
    BILLS - CONSIDERATION 12:30 p.m.
    STAGE 12:30 p.m.
  • [ R e s u m p t i o n o f d e b a t e f ro m 26/07/2010]
    • Mr Boafo 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move,
    clause 15, subclause (4), line 2, before “majority” insert “simple”
    Mr Speaker, this deals with the manner in which matters or decisions of the Council will be taken, and the proposed amendment seeks to insert “simple” in line 2 of subclause 4 before “majority”
    So that the new rendition will be:
    “Matters before the University Council shall be decided by a simple majority of the members present and voting and in event of an equality of votes, the person presiding shall have a casting vote.”
    Mr Speaker, if we go down to sub- clause (6), we have a provision relating to the same issue, where it provides that, questions shall be decided by a simple majority of the votes cast. So the intention is that we pick “simple” and insert it in subclause 4 and then we propose a deletion of subclause (6), because it is just a repetition.
    Mr Boafo 12:30 p.m.


    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Alhaji Muntaka 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move clause 15, subclause (5), delete “eight” and insert “twelve”.
    I am doing this because, in clause 11, I was proposing to increase the number of students at the Council and by so doing, it is going to increase the number of the Council to 21.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    Have you
    moved clause 11 already?
    Alhaji Muntaka 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, not yet.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    You have
    not moved the clause 11 and we have passed clause 11?
    Alhaji Muntaka 12:30 p.m.
    Yes, Mr Speaker.
    Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    Hon Member, we cannot take that amendment now.
    Mr Boafo 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 15, subclause (6), delete.
    Mr Speaker this is a follow-up to an earlier amendment which was adopted by the House, thereby making clause 15 (6) repetitive.
    1.30 p.m. -- [MR SECOND DEPUTY
    Mr Boafo 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we are
    dealing with clause 15, subclause (6). The proposed amendment is to delete sub- clause 6. This is a follow-up to an earlier amendment which has been adopted by this House under clause 15, subclause (4), thereby making clause 15, subclause 6 repetitive.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    Clause
    15, subclause (4), delete.
    Mr Puozaa 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, that is accepted. Subclause (6).
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 15 as amended ordered to stand
    part of the Bill.
    Clause 16 - Powers of the University Council.
    Alhaji Muntaka 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg
    to move, clause 16, subclause (1), line 1, after “Act” insert “and the statutes of the University”.
    Mr Speaker, the simple reason is that if you look at the act that we are trying to pass, has made reference to the statutes as several and if the university is going to be acting, I believe that just like this House use the Constitution and the Standing Orders, I just felt that it will be necessary that it would read:
    “Subject to the provisions of this Act and the statues, the University Councils shall have power to do or provide for any act or thing in relation to the university which the Council considers necessary or expedient in its capacity as the governing body of the university.”
    This will take all the guidelines that they have into consideration, exercising their powers. I hope this amendment will be supported by Hon Members.
    Mr Puozaa 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, though it
    does not seem to be harmful, I think -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:30 p.m.
    Hon
    Chairman of the Committee, are you in support of the amendment or not?
    Mr Puozaa 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we do not
    support the amendment.
    Mrs Frema A. Osei-Opare 12:30 p.m.
    Mr
    Speaker, I do not support the amendment. I believe that the Act is the key issue in terms of statutes, that I do not think in this particular Act, you have to put “and in conformity with the statutes”. No, the Act is the key legal instrument for the guidance of any actions of the university.
    Papa Owusu Ankomah 12:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I understand the Hon Member for Asawase's amendment. I really do not think it is necessary. What this seeks to do is that the powers of the University Council is subject to the provisions of this Act and it is the Act that gives it power to make statutes. So, the statutes themselves cannot be inconsistent with the Act, so “subject to the provisions of this Act” should be enough.
    Alhaji Muntaka 12:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, from the comments of Hon Colleagues, I believe I would withdraw the amendment.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
    Thank you very much. The amendment is accordingly withdrawn.

    Clause 16 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

    Clauses 17 and 18 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

    Clause 19 -- Composition of the Board.
    Alhaji Muntaka 12:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 19, subclause (1), add the following new paragraph:
    “ ( 1 ) a t l e a s t , 5 s t u d e n t representatives”.
    Mr Speaker, the reason for this proposed amendment is that, if you look at the Memorandum that came, paragraph 4, and Mr Speaker, it says, and with your permission, I beg to quote:
    “It also seeks to strengthen the student representation in governing bodies as pertains in similar institutions elsewhere.”
    The tendency to think that this is just an academic board where academic issues are being discussed, I believe that with the practice of democracy, it is important that students are there to know - If you look at the functions of the Board, students are there to even participate in the decisions that may come out of the academic board. That is why I am proposing that we add the students at the Academic Board.
    Mr Puozaa 12:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, much as we sympathise with the position of my Hon Colleague, I think since it is th e Academic Board, and it deals with academic issues, the numbers do not matter, the number of students participating -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
    Do you approve of students participation on the Academic Board?
    Mr Puozaa 12:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, they do not contribute much.
    Mr Manu 12:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, this matter came up when we were having the meeting with authorities of the university and they told us that even the students themselves do not want members of the student body to be on the Academic Board because they will get to know the performance of other colleagues and may leak them out. This matter came up but the authorities explained that the students had turned down that offer for reasons I have given.
    Papa Owusu-Ankomah 12:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, further to that, it was also explained that the Academic Board has sub-committees

    and normally, where it is considered very crucial and important and it relates particularly to students, they serve on the committees. That is why if you look at subclause (2), it says, and Mr Speaker, with your permission, I beg to quote:

    “19 (2) The Academic Board may establish standing and ad hoc committees for the purpose of carrying out its functions under this Act and that may be determined by the statutes enacted by the Council

    . . .”

    And recognising that non-members of the Academic Board could be members of ad hoc committees, it says,

    “. . . except that a committee comprised entirely of non-members shall be advisory only.”

    So, the prices are fixed for students to be part of ad hoc committees depending on the matters that are going to be decided. So I just want to allay the fears of the Hon Member for Asawase. Except that sometimes his position seems to be contradictory because he seems to want the Government to be in-charge of the appointment of Chancellor, then he wants more students on the Academic Board. The two positions are different.
    Mrs Osei-Opare 12:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I believe that my Hon Colleague is signalling me not to say too much because he has already seen that it is not feasible. But once you have given me the chance, I
    would just say a few words that I believe that the amendment to this clause should not be accepted.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
    Hon Member, you are free to make your contribution. All these are very, very important even for future instruction, so that people will learn from what is happening. So please, I want to hear your submission.
    Mrs Osei-Opare 12:40 p.m.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Speaker, I believe that while we want to promote students representation in the governance of the university, it is important also to look at the core functions of the university, the whole purpose of setting up an institution of higher learning. Therefore, where it comes to Academic Board, which touches on the core mission, particularly, in the formulation of academic policy, in examinations, it is important to insulate that kind of a body from all those who really have the oversight responsibility rather than the participants. So I think, in this particular case, let us not accept the amendment of my Colleague, Hon Muntaka. I think this is not the right place for this.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:40 p.m.
    Hon Member, I am told you have an indication.
    Alhaji Muntaka 12:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, taking the comments from Hon Colleagues and assurance from Hon Papa Owusu- Ankomah, who is a member of the Committee, that at the Committee level, they did deliberate at length on it and they were given some guarantee that students' interest would be surely protected, I withdraw the amendment.

    Clause 19 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

    Clause 20 -- The Registrar.
    Mr Boafo 12:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 20, subclause (2), line 2, delete “letter of appointment” and insert “statutes of the University”
    Mr Speaker, the amendment refers to subclause (2) of clause 20, line 2, where we have the appointment of the Chairperson, his terms and conditions to be specified in the letter of appointment.
    Mr Speaker, if you look at clause 33 of the Bill, which deals with the university statutes, it spells out what in particular should be in the statutes. It provides as follows, and Mr Speaker, with your permission, I beg to quote:
    “33 (1) The University Council may enact statutes for carrying this Act into effect and in particular to --
    (a) regulate the
    (i) appointment,
    (ii) conditions of service,
    iii) termination of appointment, and
    ( i v ) r e t i r e m e n t b e n e f i t o f employees of the university.”
    Mr Speaker, the Chairperson is considered as one of the principal officers of the university under clause 5 of the Bill, so he is also included as an employee of the university.
    Mr Speaker, earlier, under clause 8(2), where we dealt with the Chairperson's appointment we had the same expression, if I may read it with your permission.
    The original rendition was, “the chairperson of the University Council shall hold office on terms and conditions specified in the letter of appointment”.
    An earlier amendment proposed substituted “the statutes of the University” for the “letter of appointment”. Mr Speaker, this is just to maintain consistency in the Bill since the Registrar is an employee of the university.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    Otherwise, in future, there may be some tricky letters of appointment. So -
    “the registrar shall hold office on t he t e rms and conditions specified in the statutes of the university.”
    Instead of “letter of appointment”.
    So substitute “statutes of the University” for “letter of appointment”.
    Mr Boafo 12:50 p.m.
    So Mr Speaker, if they are preparing the “letter of appointment”, they can show their basis of authority in incorporating the terms and --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    Well, Hon Deputy Majority Leader?
    Mr Pelpuo 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, th is amendment might be a bit more limiting than we imagine. The “statutes of the university” will spell out the areas which are broad and known; but “the letter of appointment” will include other issues. For example, they will state the salary which cannot be stated in the statute. They will state other responsibilities that may be asked of the registrar which are also not stated in the statute and other things which are not supposed to be in a law.
    So I think that “the appointment letter” often will refer to the statute in broad areas and add some specific issues which are not in the statute. So if we limit ourselves to the statute and any other thing is not added onto the letter, the letter would be illegal and might not be acceptable.
    So I think that “the appointment letter” would take into consideration whatever is in the statutes plus others which we can legislate on.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    So can we, in curing the fear expressed by the Hon Member, look at both “the statutes of the university” and “the letter of appointment”? This is because that necessarily implies that “the letter of appointment” may elaborate on a situation but cannot be contradictory of “the statutes of the university”.
    Mr Manu 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we are talking about the “the statutes of the university”, that is a general and broad guidelines for the workings of the university. But a letter of appointment going to Kofi Mensah is personal to Kofi Mensah. So there are certain things that will be taken from the statutes and others added to what is taken from the statutes and then made personal to the occupant of the Chair. So “the letter of appointment” will be in accordance with the statutes with some others added. So I think we must make it -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    So Hon Balado Manu, help us with your formulation that you think would be acceptable.
    Mr Manu 12:50 p.m.
    So I want us to maintain the former rendition, that is, retain “the letter of appointment” instead of substituting that. I am opposing the amendment.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    Very well, Hon Dr Prempeh?
    But Hon Members, having regard to state of Business in the House, I direct that Sitting be held outside the prescribed period in accordance with Standing Order
    40 (3).
    Dr Prempeh 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, yesterday, this matter was raised at the winnowing stage and precisely, what you are talking
    about, the rendition they were giving, was what was agreed on that, “the appointment shall be in accordance with the statutes of the university”. That was what was even agreed on at the winnowing stage with them. Mr Speaker, we have not reached there, but if you go to clause 33, this Bill itself states that “the University Council may enact statutes” for carrying this Act into effect and in particular to regulate the appointment, conditions of service and termination.
    So in this Bill itself, it is saying, it is what should pertain in the statutes. So if my Hon Senior Colleague remembers, his insertion was modified to read:
    “The Registrar shall hold office on terms and conditions specified in accordance to the statutes of the university.”
    That was what was agreed on at the winnowing yesterday, because clause 33 says so.
    Mrs Osei-Opare 12:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I do not support this amendment and other sub- amendments that seem to be coming in. I believe that the original clause is adequate. The same law in clause 33, it will talk about the statutes and what it should contain. So it is actually superfluous; it is one law, and it says we should give appointment letter, we would do that. When it gets to clause 33, it will tell us where the statutes come in.
    So really, for this purpose, I believe that the appointment letter as stated in this clause is adequate. It represents what should be and the statutes should not come in at this stage at all because it is another level. In fact, it says “the university may” in that statutes, but this situation says “give the Registrar an appointment letter”. And if the university has statutes to regulate, it will import what is necessary into it.
    But so far as the situation is at the moment, I think “the appointment letter” is clear, adequate and really, it should not be amended to include “statutes which the university may enact”.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
    Hon Members, in making a law, we would want to look at various difficulties, challenges or dangers and provide for them. And it may be very optimistic to say “the university will import into the letter of appointment, its statutes” -- matters concerning that and its statutes; but it may not. Assuming somebody is given a letter of appointment which appears to be ultra vires the statutes and the person says, “I am depending and relying necessarily on my letter of appointment and I am demanding it; because somebody made a mistake. At that stage, what do they do?
    But if we have it, “statutes of the university” and “the appointment letter”, then we can say, even though a thing may be in the appointment letter, insofar as it is not in conformity with the statutes, then we cannot have that right. So you may want to consider this very, very carefully, otherwise, we may assume and a problem may arise and we do not have a solution.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I will support your suggestion that we should include “the statutes and letter of appointment” on the following grounds; letters of appointment are issued and they get old and new issues emerge and they cannot be renewed or reviewed each time a new issue emerges. The same thing applies to statutes; they cannot be reviewed to incorporate new issues as they crop up. But in order to let the Registrar be more functional and be abreast of the issues that come up at the university, I would suggest that we incorporate both “the statutes” and “letter of appointment” in that clause
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1 p.m.


    so that we shall have -- as the statutes become reviewed and they take care of the new emerging issues.
    Alhaji Muntaka 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, this amendment is not necessary. Mr Speaker, it is just like the proposed amendment I made earlier where I talked about the Act and the statutes. The Act mandates the Council to have statutes, so whatever is going to be happening, is within the realm of this Act. So if they are going to give a Registrar an appointment letter, they will state the issues. So why do we want to now go further to say that it would reflect with this? It does not exist.
    This one is more than adequate and I think that I would urge my Hon Colleague who proposed the amendment, in order to make real progress, to withdraw his amendment so that we can move faster. This will not cure anything.
    Dr A. A. Osei 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, under normal circumstances, I would have agreed with the Chair. But my disagreement here is because you said “letter of appointment and statutes”. [Interruptions.] If it is “and statutes”, then I disagree.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    Hon Dr Akoto Osei, would you want a formulation that would incorporate the two?
    Dr A. A. Osei 1 p.m.
    Yes. Mr Speaker, I listened to you and I thought that you said, a “letter of appointment and statutes”. I think if you look at clause 33, the letter of appointment cannot be outside the statutes, it cannot be because they are supposed to regulate the letter of appointment. So if for avoidance of doubt, Hon Muntaka would say “in a letter of appointment in accordance with the statutes”. I think it will settle the problem. But we cannot say “and statutes”. It should read as: “in accordance with the statutes.”
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    So we have a new rendition in the light of the
    Mrs Kusi 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, in that case,
    the earlier appointment cited by my Hon Colleague, Mr Boafo should also be looked at again when we finish and come to the Second Consideration Stage. This is because in clause 8 (2), the same thing has been done. It was also captured in yesterday's Votes and Proceedings --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    What clause?
    Mrs Kusi 1 p.m.
    Clause 8 (2).
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    Very
    well. Shall we finish with this one? This is the beauty about Consideration Stage. We can, in the light of that, do a sankofa.
    Mrs Kusi 1 p.m.
    All right.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    If it is necessary, we shall consider it but we have not come to that. We are now looking at,
    “The Registrar shall hold office on the terms and conditions specified in the letter of appointment in accordance with the statutes of the university.”
    Mr Pelpuo 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I suppose that that is an improvement on “and the statutes” and it is great. But we are talking about a statute that does not exist yet; if we pass this Bill and we are setting up the university, no appointment will be done, they have to sit for another period of time to draw up the statutes that will direct us as to how an appointment letter is to be done. [Interruptions.] This one says, “may enact a statute”, so it is still
    giving a legal backing to the university to enact a statute and it may enact. So at the moment, it does not exist. So let us say “an appointment letter” - and we know that an appointment letter cannot come from anywhere, it should come from the university's internal arrangement which is found in the statutes.
    Dr Prempeh 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, actually, there is something called the “statutes of the University of Ghana”. So it exists and they cannot do anything outside that statutes. So the letter of appointment should simply be “in accordance with the statutes of the university” because clause 33 said so. So without a statute, how can they give somebody a letter of appointment? Based upon what?
    Mr Boafo 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we have the 2004 edition of the statutes and Hon Muntaka has a copy which was given to us at yesterday's winnowing. It is not a non- existing document, and if one is doubtful whether the university will enact a statute or not, when we get to clause 33, we can change the word “may” to “shall” and then he would be comfortable.
    Mr Speaker, it is always necessary to provide in a legislation, an enabling power or enabling environment. We should not proceed on assumption that something will be done. So the proposed amendment should satisfy the concerns of everybody here, including the Hon Member for Ayawaso West Wuogon (Mrs Osei-Opare) because the university is situated in her constituency. [Laughter.] We should satisfy her that what we are doing is in her interest. We are promoting her interest in this House.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    And to forestall any possible arbitrariness.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr Puozaa 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 20, subclause (3), paragraph (a), before “Chancellor” insert “Office of the”
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
    So instead of “Chancellor”, we should say “Office of the Chancellor”?
    Mr Puozaa 1 p.m.
    Yes. We should insert that to make it that the Registrar is really Secretary to the Office of the Chancellor.
    Mrs Osei-Opare 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I support the amendment because I believe that it is not the sort of personal secretary to the Chancellor but that whole office that deals with this. So I think it is an
    Prof. (Emeritus) Amoako 1 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think the Hon Member who just spoke has taken the wind out of my sails. I was going to express the same support for the amendment because he wanted to refer to the Office of the Chancellor, not to personalise it as the Chancellor. So that even if the Chancellor is not there, whoever occupies the office can be captured in this subclause.
    So it is the “Office of the Chancellor”, not the Chancellor as a person.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 20, subclause (7), line 2, delete “reproduced” and insert “modified”.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    “Prior to the assumption of office, the Registrar shall swear the oath of office as prescribed in the Constitution and modified . . .” It is consequential upon a previous amendment.
    Dr Appiah-Kubi 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I need your guidance, on subclauses (4) and (5). What is the difference between these subclauses actually?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Subclause (4)
    “The Registrar is responsible for the day-to-day administration of the affairs of the university.”
    Then subclause (5)
    “The Registrar shall be the Chief Operating Officer of the university under the Vice-Chancellor.”
    Mrs Kusi 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, in clause 20, we are told in subclause (3) (a) that “The Registrar is the Secretary to the Office of the Chancellor,” and then he is also under the Vice Chancellor -- [Interruption] - Yes, but Chief Operating Officer under the Vice Chancellor.
    So what I want to find out here is the fact that, the Registrar is serving both people and both offices are very, very busy. [Interruptions.] Is he going to get a personal secretary to work for him?
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 20 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    ANNOUNCEMENTS 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Hon Members, I have the pleasure to introduce to you Members of the Portfolio Committees on Public Service and Administration, and the Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs of the Parliament of the Republic of South Africa who are on an official visit to Ghana.
    They are here to learn about Ghana's Public Administration Legislation, its implementation, challenges and successes.
    BILLS -- CONSIDERATION 1:10 p.m.
    STAGE 1:10 p.m.
  • [Resumption of debate from column 3270]
    • Mr Boafo 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 21, subclause (1), line 2, delete “statute enacted for that purpose” and insert “statutes of the university”
    Mr Speaker, the original rendition is--
    “There shall be a convocation of the university with a membership prescribed by statute enacted for that purpose.”
    Mr Speaker, the amendment seeks to delete “statute enacted for that purpose”, after the word “by” on line (2) and substitute -- “the statutes of the University”. So the new rendition would be as follows -
    “There shall be a convocation of the University with a membership prescribed by the statutes of the university.”
    Mr Speaker, the language which is known to us in this Bill consistently is not “statute” but that of “statutes of the university”. So it is to maintain the consistency in the Bill, hence the proposed amendment.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Yes, Hon Chairman of the Committee, is it accepted?
    Mr Puozaa 1:10 p.m.
    Yes, we went through it
    with him yesterday.
    Mr Manu 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I was going to support him and to say that in the university, we have “statutes”. It is always in the plural form.
    Mrs Osei-Opare 1:10 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, looking at clause 33, I find it difficult to see where this fits in because the current clause 33 does not seem to include that - “the convocation”. So that is where my concern is, if we can look at that - [Interruption] - But it is important that we think through it.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    Shall we conclude this one for the moment?
    Mrs Osei-Opare 1:10 p.m.
    Well, Mr Speaker, then when we get there, we should make sure that indeed, we are saying that the “statutes of the university” should have that as an assignment.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
    I trust, Hon Member, that you would be in the House to give us guidance when we get there.
    Mrs Catherine A. A feku 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I come by Order 48. I am a little disheartened that the University of Ghana Bill, the most exclusive and premier university of our dear nation, a Bill so important to us, is being deliberated and Business of Government - Look at that side, Mr Speaker - they have asked us over and over to come to Parliament, Sit on extended time, even to the point of changing the date of going on recess sine die. We are here till 3rd August.
    Mr Speaker, as a legislator, I am deeply

    disheartened that people on the Majority side would not attach importance to a Bill, this Bill that seeks to put things right for the premier university of mother Ghana.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Thank you very much. I shall put the Question, the Question by way of amendment so ably moved by Hon W. O. Boafo.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    There is a further amendment to clause 21, which stands in the name of Hon Boafo.
    Mr K. T. Hammond 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Hon Member, incidentally, I have not noticed you in the House for a while as serious business was going on. I hope you have not come in to truncate activity?
    Mr Hammond 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I was attending to some very, very important parliamentary work outside.
    Mr Speaker, it really was to add to
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Order! Order!
    Mr Hammond 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, we have been consistently going through - Mr Speaker, the various amendments on the Order Paper attest to the fact that the Hon Member made, every single Bill and every

    Motion is gone through by those of us on this side. But of course, it is their Bill and it is their responsibility to be in this House and make sure that the Bill is in order. It is only the Opposition which is going through it and I think it is not fair.

    Mr Speaker, if they cannot come and

    make sure that their own Bill is sorted out, then they should withdraw all the Bills standing in the House.

    Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Incidentally, the Hon Majority Leader is not present. The Hon Deputy Majority Leader is not present. I can see an “acting Hon Leader” on the Majority side.
    In all seriousness, I would like you to convey to the Leadership of this House that Government Business is serious business. Hon Members are supposed to have risen. As of now, we are here because of important Government Business. And honestly, it must be taken with the seriousness that it deserves. So, I would be glad if you would convey this to the Honourable Leadership of the Majority accordingly.
    Hon Boafo, there is a further amendment
    which stands in your name.
    Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 21, subclause (4), paragraph (b), line 2, delete “statute” and insert “the statutes of the university” .
    Mr Speaker, that is also for purposes of consistency in the Bill. We are seeking to delete the word “statute” appearing in line 2 of subclause (4) (b) and substitute therefor the same words “the statutes of the university” -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Hon Member, this is very much in line with the previous amendment.
    Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
    Precisely so, Mr Speaker.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr Boafo 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 21, subclause (6), line 1, delete “In addition to subsection (5)”.
    Mr Speaker, the amendment being sought is in relation to the opening words of the subclause, that is, “In addition to subsection (5)”.
    Mr Speaker, the purpose for proposing this amendment is that the expression, “In addition to subsection (5)” gives the impression that the role being given to the convocation in subsection (6) is the only role to the main function of the Convocation as provided in subclause (5).
    But we found out that there are other roles assigned to the convocation in the Bill. What comes immediately to mind is the role assigned to the Convocation to appoint at least, nine persons to the Academic Board.
    So, we find the expression, “In addition to subsection (5)” as misleading, hence the proposed amendment to have it deleted. So the new rendition will be:
    “The convocation may express an opinion on any matter that affects the university and may refer the matter to the University Council or the Academic Board.”
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Hon Chairman of the Committee, are you agreeable?
    Mr Puozaa 1:20 p.m.
    Yes.
    Mr Manu 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, to support him, I will say that if we keep this rendition, then whoever wants to look at anything, will go to subsection (5) and once that is satisfied, he goes ahead to do anything without taking into account what other provisions found elsewhere. So, in order not to put ourselves into that trap, I think we should delete the phrase “In addition to subsection (5)” and then begin with what Hon Boafo gave.
    Nana Abu-Bonsra 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I wanted to seek leave from you to take advantage of the Consideration Stage to go back to clause 11.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Can I put the Question, at least? Because this does not relate to clause 21.
    Nana Abu-Bonsra 1:20 p.m.
    Very well, Mr Speaker.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 21 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Clause
    22 -
    Very well, Hon Member, you rose specially -
    Nana Abu-Bonsra 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I rose to seek your indulgence to go back to clause 11, that is under - [Interruptions] - That is the flexibility of the Consideration Stage - under the University Council --
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Can we look at that at the Second Consideration Stage then, so that we flow?
    Nana Abu-Bonsra 1:20 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I was taking leave of what you said that during the Consideration Stage, we can always go back and forth. So, I was just taking advantage of your direction.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
    Yes, but within limitation as I deem appropriate. - [Laughter.]
    Clause 22 - Internal organisation of the university
    Mr Puozaa 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to
    move, clause 22, subclause (1), line 4, “suppression” and insert “de- establishment”
    This is because the word “suppression”
    seems to have a negative connotation. Though it is a technical word, it does not sound good enough in the ears of many people. So, after establishing, one can de-establish. So, we prefer “de- establishment” to “suppression”.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    “Subject to the provisions of this Act, the University Council may make arrangements concerning the internal organisation of the university which it considers necessary including the establishment, variation and de- establishment of …”
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, unless I
    have the wrong Order Paper, what I see here, the amendment says: “Subclause (1), line 4, “suppression” and insert “de- establishment” - is that the amendment?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Yes.
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:30 p.m.
    There is no delete on
    mine, unless I have the wrong Order Paper.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Hon
    Member, you are right.
    Hon Chairman of the Committee, you
    may want to make an amendment right on the floor of the House and say “after 4, delete ‘suppression' and insert ‘de- establishment'”.
    Mr Puozaa 1:30 p.m.
    Please, as a further
    amendment -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    In fact,
    it is a correction.
    Mr Puozaa 1:30 p.m.
    Add “delete” after the
    words “line 4” on the Order Paper.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Very well, it is done accordingly --
    “Subclause (1), line 4, “suppression” and insert “delete”establishment”.
    Mrs Osei-Opare 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I do not support the amendment and in fact, wish to propose a sub-amendment -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Under
    where?
    M r s O s e i - O p a re : To d e l e t e
    “suppression” and not “de-establishment”. First of all, de-establishment and then two words after “de-establishment itself is not an elegant rendition. However, I believe that the “de-establishment” and “variation” cater for whatever changes the university wants to make. Therefore, the word “de-establishment” should not come in at all. You can establish, and you can vary, that should be enough. So, my proposed amendment is to delete “suppression”, period.
    Mr Second D5eputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Hon
    Members, you may want to establish and you may want to vary and variation does not necessarily connote abolishing. But there are times when perhaps, we may want to totally de-establish. You may totally want to de-establish. So, for the sake of avoiding ambiguity, you may want to “de-establish”.
    Prof [Emeritus] Amoako: Mr
    Speaker, I think this question came up at the Committee's stage and we all agreed that there was the need to put in a word for de-establishing or abolishing an institution in the university. “Variation” is not the same as “de-establishment”. And we need to strengthen the hands of the administration to establish and also de-establish, which is not the same as “variation”. So, I think I agree, the word “suppression” should be deleted. But we need to insert the word “de-establishment” to take care of any shortfalls of variation. A complete abolishing is also necessary.
    Mr Manu 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, when there
    is an establishment, and you want to vary, you can vary it but it will still exist. You vary it and it still exists. But when you want to de-establish something, something that was established, when you de-establish it, it ceases to exist. So, there is a world of difference between variation to something and de-establishing something. They are not the same. So, we are saying that the university can establish something and once they are able to establish, they should also have the right to de-establish. That is the argument.
    Thank you, Mr Speaker.
    Question put and amendment agreed
    to.
    Mr Puozaa 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to
    move, clause 22, subclause (1), paragraph (a), sub-paragraphs (i) and (ii), delete.
    We believe that we should delete these
    two sub-paragraphs. We propose that we delete (i) and (ii). This is because when we - they are just about the same.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    You are talking about subclause (1) paragraph (a), add “the university or within the jurisdiction of the university”. Is that what you mean, Hon Chairman?
    Mr Puozaa 1:30 p.m.
    Let me put it properly.
    Let us amend the first line, that is (i),
    so that it reads as follows:
    “the halls or hostels of residence developed by the university or within its jurisdiction.”
    So that (ii) will be deleted - “other private and public persons” should be deleted.
    It is very necessary.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Thank you very much. So, that we have:
    “(a) the hal ls or hostels of residence developed by
    (i) the university or within the jurisdiction of the university.”
    Is that so, Hon Chairman?
    Very well. Hon Dr Akoto Osei.
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I just need your guidance. The Hon Member for Evalue Gwira raised an issue by Order 48 (1). I did not hear any ruling on it. And it has been past ten minutes since she brought it up. I was just wondering whether there was a ruling on it. I do not recall -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    The Hon Member made a comment.
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:30 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I thought
    she said she was coming -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    No, Hon Member. The Hon Member for Evalue Gwira made a comment for us to take note of the paucity of Hon Members in the House at that moment, and passed a commentary as to the Majority side not taking Government business as seriously as she would have wished.
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:30 p.m.
    I thank you, Mr Speaker, I did not understand it was a commentary. In that case, with your indulgence, I want to come under Order 48 (1).
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    There
    was nothing raised in terms of quorum. And no action was to be taken thereon.
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:30 p.m.
    With your indulgence, I
    want to come under Order 48 (1).
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Now, you want to move?
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:30 p.m.
    Yes.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:30 p.m.
    Hon
    Member, you may do so.
    Dr A. A. Osei 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, I want to read:
    “48. (1) The presence of at least one-third of all the Members of Parliament besides the person presiding shall be necessary to constitute a quorum of the House.”
    I shall not endeavour to make any
    commentary on my Colleagues on the other side of the House. I just want to come under Order 48 (1). Given that this Bill is so important, I would expect that there are about 230 Members, we want to have more people participate. At this juncture, in my own estimation, we are less than 30, which will be considerably
    Mr Pelpuo 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, convention
    has shown that in times when we consider Bills, we have very few Members who do it, and it has become conventional here. Mr Speaker, I do not disagree with my
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Hon
    Members, the bells would be rung and we shall proceed in accordance with the rules.
    Please, proceed.
    The ruling is that, the process will
    take place, ring the bells; meanwhile, business continues as you well know -[Interruptions] Order! We shall move by our rules and not be guided by commentaries, Hon Members.
    Hon Boafo, you have an amendment?
    Mr Boafo 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, at the
    winnowing, the proponent of the amendment was Hon Dr Matthew Prempeh, so I will yield the position to him.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Hon
    Member, the amendment stands in the joint names of your two selves and we just wanted your -- that is subclause (1), paragraph (a), add “the University or within the jurisdiction of the University” and you are supportive of that?
    Mr Boafo 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, as I was explaining earlier the advocacy for this particular amendment came from Hon Dr Matthew Prempeh.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Hon Dr
    Prempeh, you may make your contribution.
    Dr Prempeh 1:40 p.m.
    Mr. Speaker, I beg to
    move, clause 22, subclause (1), paragraph (a), at the end, add “the university or within the jurisdiction of the university”.
    Mr Speaker, at yesterday's winnowing session, it was realized that for this particular 22 (1) (a) (i) and (ii), the university actually has no power over a private hostel located at Agyirganor. The university can either establish that, de- establish or vary that.
    So at the winnowing stage, it was agreed among us and the university that (ii) should be totally deleted and that for (i) we should add “within the jurisdiction of the university” because inside the university, there are private hostels operating and the university has control over them. So that clause 1 (a) would read:
    “The Halls or hostels of residence developed by the university or within the jurisdiction of the university” I so move.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Chairman of the Committee, you are agreeable? I will put the Question -- I thought it was very clear?
    Mr Puozaa 1:40 p.m.
    As already explained,
    the university can only have control over structures that are within its jurisdiction. But then, if one chooses to build, let us say, at Agyirganor, that is out of reach of the university. So the university only controls what is within its area or let us say, if it acquires property -- the university acquires property at Agyirganor, then it becomes a different thing. But that is its property. So for that reason, we felt that, as ably put by my Hon Colleague, that if we do that, the rendition as it is, will not be complete unless it is modified to read -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    “The university or within the jurisdiction of the university.”
    Mr Puozaa 1:40 p.m.
    That is “the halls or
    hostels of residence developed by the university or within its jurisdiction”.
    Prof. Gyan-Baffour 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, “jurisdiction” is not synonymous with geographical area; it is about a legal authority over something, not that buildings near the university are in its jurisdiction and those that are outside the university are not within its jurisdiction. It is about a legal entity, not an area. So I am not sure what we are trying to do here.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Hon Chairman, have you clearly anticipated various campuses of the same university?
    Dr Prempeh 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, if Hon
    Members would read what has been proposed, the university can acquire a campus in Kumasi; that puts that campus under the jurisdiction of the university. But if a private person establishes a hostel at Agyirganor, it is not under the jurisdiction of the university. So the university can neither establish that, vary that or de-establish that. So all we are saying is that -- and private people have also put up hostels within the geographical area; that is also under the jurisdiction, because they signed a contract with the university, so the university can have an effect on them. So this amendment is just to encompass all that to say that --
    “The Halls or hostels of residence developed by the university or within the jurisdiction of the university is what the university can establish, de-establish or vary”.
    Nothing else.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    Does
    that make it very clear?
    Mrs Osei-Opare 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I
    support the amendment and I think it is important for the university to be looked at, not just within a limited geographical area but any other related structures or facilities that are under the jurisdiction of the university. I believe that will guide the university when it is entering into this public private partnership in the establishing of hostels. This is because it has implications as to the future of those hostels and I just like to support that amendment.
    Prof. Gyan-Baffour 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I do
    not think we are saying anything different. The point is that, if you say it is under its jurisdiction, it does not have to be an area. So you can say that “an area which is under its jurisdiction that specifies an area”. But if you say it is under its jurisdiction, it is about a legal issue, which does not have to be an area at all. So I think there has to be an insertion there to say that maybe, an area which is under the jurisdiction of the university.
    Question put and amendment agreed
    to.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:40 p.m.
    There
    is a further amendment to clause 22 in the name of the Chairman of the Committee and Hon William Ofori Boafo.
    Mr Baofo 1:40 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move, clause 22, subclause (1), paragraph (a), sub-paragraph (i) and (ii), delete
    Dr Prempeh 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, this is
    consequent upon the discussion that we agreed on at the winnowing stage yesterday, that clause 22 (a) (ii) should be totally deleted because if the hall or hostel is developed by a private person outside

    the jurisdiction of the university, it has no control to vary, establish or de-establish. If I establish my private hostel on my own land and I decide to invite anybody to come and rent, it is not under the jurisdiction of the university. So the legal
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Clause 22 (1), paragraph (a), subclauses (i) and (ii) --
    Dr Prempeh 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, correction, please. It should be subclause 1, paragraph (a) (ii), not (i) and (ii).
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Hon Members, let us take note of the Order Paper. Amendment, clause 22, subclause 1 paragraph (a) (ii) so delete “s” and delete (i) and delete “and”; sub-paragraph (ii), delete. Is that so?
    Dr Prempeh 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, yesterday, at the winnowing stage, going through this part, we realized that a private person, when he establishes a hostel, does not actually need the university for anything. He just advertises his hostel and a University of Ghana student or somebody there as well as private people can go and live in that hostel. In that case, the university can only recommend, it cannot vary, it cannot be established, provided the person is going according to the rules and regulations of the country. It is only under the jurisdiction of the university that the law can give them the power to oversee. So it was agreed that we totally delete (ii).
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Let us get the rendition straight, then we can analyze. So that it will read: “The halls-- The first one is the university. Is that not so? And then there is an “or” which is (ii) and we are to delete the entire (ii).
    Hon Dr Prempeh, if you can make it
    clear then -
    Mr Prempeh 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, after agreeing to paragraph (a) (i), which encompasses what we have here, paragraph (ii) is redundant, so we have to delete that.
    Mr Puozaa 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I think it should read as follows:
    “(a) Halls or hostels of residence developed by the university or within the jurisdiction of the university.”
    That is just one clause, so we do not have (i) or (ii).
    Dr Prempeh 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I agree with
    my Hon Colleagues. After the amendment, we do not have to have (i) or (ii). So it should be as it has been rendered.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    So that
    this will flow from the amendment. So that we would have it read:
    “The Halls or hostels of residence developed by the university or within the jurisdiction of the university.”
    Is that not so? Then it becomes omnibus and covers all.
    Mr Hammond 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, in that case, would that mean (a), (b), (c) and others would all be gone or what?
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    No.
    Only (a).
    Mr Hammond 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, in that case, for rationality, shall we maintain it as it is in here, and then have the halls of residence - because the “jurisdiction” thing here is confusing the matter, so let us leave it as it is - [Interruption.] Mr Speaker, if we look at the clause, it is very
    specific. It goes to (a) and then (i) and then (b), (c), (d). [An Hon Member: (ii) is no longer there.] I understand that. If we go by your amendment, (ii) - Mr Speaker, let us leave it as it is, the “halls of residence or hostels of residence developed by”, then (a) University of - the rendition as it is here seems to me to be a passing -- We add “jurisdiction” to (a) and we are in our unchartered territory. It is going to be pretty confusing. “Jurisdiction”, I realize has so many manifestations and ramifications. So let us take the jurisdiction out of it and maintain it as it is in the draft.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Mr Boafo 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I beg to move clause 22, Add the following new subclause:
    “The internal organisation of the university shall conform to democratic principles and its actions and purposes shall not contravene or be inconsistent with the Constitution of the Republic”.
    Mr Speaker, the purpose of this amendment is to reinforce the academic freedom of the university. It leads to the internal organisation of the university and the proposed amendment reads as follows:
    “The internal organisation of the university shall conform to the democratic principles and its decisions and purposes shall not contravene or be inconsistent with the Constitution of the Republic.”
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    So Hon Member, it would be added as what?
    Mr Boafo 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, as a new sub- clause. It will be subclause 3.
    Mr Kojo Appiah-Kubi 1:50 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I do not see the need for that -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:50 p.m.
    Do you want to argue? We have come to the point of putting the Question.
    Question put and amendment agreed to.
    Clause 22 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Mr Boafo 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, I see a Colleague, I do not know whether -
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    Clause 23 - proposed amendment which stands in the name of Hon Boafo. Subclause (5).
    Mr Boafo 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, with your permission, I want to yield to Hon K. T. Hammond.
    Mr K. T. Hammond 2 p.m.
    Mr Speaker, thank you very much. About 15 minutes ago, my Colleague, Hon Akoto Osei raised the question of quorum under Order 48 (1). I have been counting to about 15 minutes now and I thought I should remind Mr Speaker of the matter.
    Mr Second Deputy Speaker 2 p.m.
    Thank you very much, Hon Member. The House will stand adjourned till tomorrow ten o'clock in the forenoon and I will ask that Leadership should ensure that Hon Members are present in their numbers, particularly since we are Sitting beyond our usual time and length of Sitting days so that our extra Sitting can be maximized.
    I thank you.
    ADJOURNMENT 2 p.m.
  • The House was adjourned at 2.03 p.m. till Wednesday, 28th July, 2010 at 10.00 a.m.