Debates of 15 Dec 2015

MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:44 p.m.
Yes, Hon Chairman of the Committee?
Mr Avedzi 12:44 p.m.
To this end, the ECOWAS Authority of Heads of States and Governments established an ECOWAS Customs' Union. A common external tariff with a common nomenclature so that customs procedures are transparent, readily followed and delays at borders decreased, is a key stone in achieving this union.
Following this, the Authority of Heads of States and Governments of ECOWAS adopted in January 2006 in Niamey a
decision establishing the ECOWAS-CET which draws on the basic UEMOA CET with a two-year transition period for the finalisation and eventual operationa- lisation of ECOWAS CET by member- states. It is therefore to operationalise the CET that an approval is being sought for an amendment to incorporate the revised Harmonised System as part of the Customs Act, (Act 891).
Purpose of the Bill
The Bill seeks to amend the Customs Act, 2015 (Act 891) to incorporate the revised Harmonised System as a schedule to the Act in line with CET tariff bands.
Division of the Bill
The Bill has only one clause and seven schedules. The First Schedule made up of Chapters 1 to 97. Chapter 98 which is set in two parts A and B has been utilized for National Tariff Administration purposes as follows:
PART A -- Goods admissible at concessionary duty rates when imported by manufacturers approved by the Commissioner
PART B -- Goods admissible at concessionary duty rates when imported by enterprises under the Ghana Investment Promotion Center Act, (Act 478)
The Second Schedule contains the ECOWAS Preferential Rates, and is set out in three parts as follows:
PART A -- Unprocessed product of ECOWAS origin which are exempted from import duties and taxes
PART B -- Traditional handicraft products approved for full exemptions from import duties
PART C -- List of agreed enterprises and industrial products. (A comprehensive list is available in a separate compilation for goods admissible under the ECOWAS Trade Liberalisation Scheme (ETLS).
The Third Schedule, which covers exemptions, is presented in three parts as follows:
PART A -- Import exemptions for Government, privileged persons, Organisations and institutions
PART B -- General exemptions
PART C -- Exemptions under the Value Added Tax Act, 2013 (Act 870) as amended. This further divided into four sub-parts:
i. Exemptions for Government, privileged persons,organisations and institutions
ii. Import exemptions
iii. Zero-rated supplies for exports
iv. Tax treatment of shipping related services under the Value Added Tax Act, 2013 (Act 870)
The Fourth Schedule covers Export Duties and comes in two parts as follows:
PART A Export duties on domestic goods (ie. Goods grown,produced or manufactured in Ghana)
PART B Export duty exemptions for privileged persons, organisations or Institutions
The Fifth Schedule covers excise duties, which is also in two parts:
PART A Goods liable to excise duties
PART B Exemptions from excise duties for privileged persons, Organisations or Institutions
The Sixth Schedule covers import prohibitions, which is also in two parts:
PART A Absolute prohibitions
PART B Conditional prohibitions
The Seventh Schedule covers export prohibitions
PART A Absolute prohibitions
PART B Conditional prohibitions
Dr A.A. Osei (NPP -- Old Tafo) 12:44 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this is the Customs (Amendment) Bill, 2015.
Mr Speaker, you can see that your Finance Committee has had some sleepless nights. That notwithstanding, it is really to make this part of our Act -- the entire Hamornised Code.
In terms of sense of urgency, I think if we read page six of the Committee's Report, we would realise that because of the late implementation, the Government had to lose some revenue. That notwithstanding, I think the ECOWAS harmonistation is a more important objective than even the revenue yields.
I urge Hon Members to adopt the Committee's Report, so that we can speedily implement this Act.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:44 p.m.
Thank you very much.
Mr Bagbin 12:44 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I propose we take item number 12 at page 8 on the Order Paper.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:44 p.m.
Very well.
Hon Members, item numbered 12, Motion -- by the Minister for Finance.
BILLS -- SECOND READING 12:50 p.m.
Minister for Finance (Mr Seth Emmanuel Terkper) 12:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that the Value Added Tax (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, 2015 be now read a Second time.
Mr Speaker, the objective of doing this is to increase the threshold for the registration of taxpayers to GH¢200, 000 with a quarterly bases of GH¢50,000.
Mr Speaker, the second objective is to increase the amount that is retained for VAT refund deposits.
Mr Speaker, as we are aware, the increase from four per cent to six per cent is to cater for VAT refunds. VAT is based on the input tax credit, and in particular, the zero rating of exports makes it necessary to have adequate refunds to meet the commitments of taxpayers.
Question proposed.
Chairman of the Committee (Mr James Klutse Avedzi) 12:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to support the Motion and also wish to present your Committee's Report.
Introduction
The Value Added Tax (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, 2015 was presented to Parliament on behalf of the Hon Minister for Finance by the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance Mr Cassiel Ato Baah Forson and read for the First time on Friday, 27th November, 2015. In accordance with article 174(1) of the 1992 Constitution and Order 169 of the Standing Orders of the Parliament of Ghana, the Bill was referred to the Finance Committee for considera- tion and report.
Pursuant to the referral, the Committee met and was assisted in its deliberations by the Hon. Deputy Minister for Finance, Mr Cassiel Ato Baah Forson, Commissioners from Ghana Revenue Authority (GRA), Attorneys from Attorney-General's Department and other officials of the Ministry of Finance (Tax Policy Unit) and
GRA.
The Committee is grateful to the Hon Deputy Minister, Commissioners and the officials for the assistance.
Reference
The Committee referred to the following additional documents during its deliberations:
The 1992 Constitution of Ghana
The Standing Orders of the Parliament of Ghana.
The Value Added Tax Act, 2013 (Act
870)
Background
The Minister of Finance in presenting the 2016 Budget Statement and Economic Policy of Government outlined fiscal measures that the Government intends to undertake to improve domestic revenue generation and improve tax administration and compliance.
Purpose of the Bill
The Bill seeks to amend the Value Added Tax Act, 2013 (Act 870) to increase the monetary threshold requirement for registration under the Act and to increase the percentage of tax revenue to be set aside for the Ghana Revenue Authority General Refund Account.
Provisions of the Bill
The Bill has two clauses. Clause 1 amends subsection (1) of Section 6 of Act 870 to increase the monetary threshold for registration under the Act from GH¢120,000 to GH¢200,000. The clause also amends the monetary threshold in paragraphs (a) and (b) of subsection (2) from GH¢300,000 to GH¢50,000 and from GH¢120,000 to GH¢200,000 respectively.
Clause 2 of the Bill amends section 57 of Act 870 by increasing the percentage of tax revenue required to be set aside for Ghana Revenue Authority General Refund Account from four per cent(4%) to not more than per cent(6%).
Observations
Rational for increasing the threshold and revenue set aside for the Refund Account
The Committee noted that the proposed increase of the refund account
would enable GRA to meet revenue required for tax refund. Hon Members would recall that the Ghana Revenue Authority General Refund Account (GRAGRA) was created in 2014 to enable GRA meet its obligation of tax refund which remained a major challenge confronting tax administration in the country.
The Committee further learnt that though GRA is yet to totally phase out the VAT Relief Purchase Order (VRPO) which has been the only administrative tool for validating title to relief from VAT on the domestic front, the current revenue (4%) set aside for the refund purposes remains inadequate. It was explained that with the total abolishing of the VRPO in 2016, GRA would find it extremely difficult if not impossible to honour its refund obligations particularly to the big multinational companies.
It was further argued that since the integrity and success of any system, particularly VAT is largely dependent on the system's ability to promptly and adequately honour refund claims, there has arisen the need to increase the percentage of tax revenue to be set aside for the Ghana Revenue Authority General Refund Account.
Explaining the rational for the six per cent(6%), the Hon. Deputy Minister indicated that GRA's initial request based on the historical trend of the VAT/NHIL waived through the use of the VRPO was six per cent(6%) of which the Ministry agreed to four per cent(4%). The Deputy Minister opined that though the six per cent(6%) might appear inadequate, the Ministry believes that gradual increase remained the best option.
The Committee after its deliberations agreed to the six per cent(6%) but urges the GRA and the Ministry to ensure that
Dr A. A. Osei (NPP— Old Tafo) 12:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just saw my good Friend, Hon James Agalga. He mentioned my name today on Metro Television. I thought I would have him make a correction but he is not even listening. He is not even paying attention — [Interruption]
Mr Speaker, Hon James Agalga, — mentioned my name today on television and I sent some note to correct it — that the AMERI Project did not come before the Finance Committee but rather to the Committee on Mines and Energy. But since he is now listening, it is alright. I will move on and contribute to the debate.
Mr Speaker, this amendment is not controversial at all. The first clause seeks to improve the operational efficiency of VAT collections, and the second, which is more important, seeks to improve the procedure or increase the probability of paying refunds to businesses,which is very important. There is nothing more painful than somebody taking funds that
are due a person and they are not able to give them back to plough back with the business.
Mr Speaker, I support the Ministry's objective of increasing the Ghana Revenue Authority's General Refund Accounts (GRAGRA) to six per cent, to assure businesses that, the refunds would be given back to them very quickly and in the right amount when they file.
Mr Speaker, I urge Hon Members to adopt the Motion.
Question put and Motion agreed to.
The Value Added Tax (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, 2015 was accordingly read a Second time.
Mr Agbesi 12:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we can move to the next item; 13 — the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2015.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 12:50 p.m.
Very well.
Hon Members, item 13, on page 8 of the Order Paper; by the Minister for Finance.
BILLS -- SECOND READING 12:50 p.m.
Minister for Finance (Mr Seth Emmanuel Terkper) 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill 2015 be now read a Second time.
Mr Speaker, the Bill deals with two thresholds. The first threshold is to increase the income, that is, exempted from tax from GH¢1,584.00 to GH¢2,592.00. The purpose is to continue to use the
income tax as a progressive means of exempting low income persons from taxation. This is a fair and progressive point.
Mr Speaker, the second threshold is what is required to provide for a new rate of tax for the chargeable income of a resident individual for a year of assessment and to adjust the threshold for modified taxation.
Mr Speaker, the modified taxation applies mainly to small entities that cannot keep business records.
Mr Speaker, as the inflation and other factors are taken into consideration, just as with the threshold to adjust as described, it is important to increase it, so that it serves its purpose of efficiency and becomes more useful.

Question proposed.
Chairman of the Committee (Mr James K. Avedzi) 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to support the Motion and also present the Committee's Report.
Introduction
The Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2015 was presented to Parliament on behalf of the Minister for Finance by the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance Mr Cassiel Ato Baah Forson and read for the first time on Friday, 27th November, 2015. The Bill was referred to the Finance Committee for consideration and report in accordance with article 174(1) of the 1992 Constitution and Order 169 of the Standing Orders of the House.
Pursuant to the referral, the Committee met with the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance, Mr. Cassiel Ato Baah Forson, Commissioners from the Ghana Revenue Authority (GRA), as well as officials from the Tax Policy Unit of Ministry of Finance and Attorneys from Attorney-General's Department and considered the referral.
The Committee is grateful to the Hon. Deputy Minister, Commissioners and other officials for the assistance during the deliberations.
Reference
The Committee referred to the following additional documents during its deliberations:
The 1992 Constitution of Ghana;
The Standing Orders of the Parliament of Ghana; and
The Income Tax Act, 2015 (Act 896).
Background
In line with the social policies of Government, personal income tax provided under the Income Tax Act, 2015 (Act 896) was used as a major tool for equitable distribution of income and the protection of the low income earners. The proposed amendment is therefore being sought to further improve fairness, progressivism and also provide tax relief to low income earners.
Purpose of the Bill
The object of the Bill is to amend the Income Tax Act, 2015 (Act 896) to provide for a new rate of tax for the chargeable
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Very well.
Question proposed.
Dr A. A. Osei (NPP -- Old Tafo) 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I rise to support the Motion on the floor, that the Income Tax (Amend- ment) Bill, 2015 be read a Second time. In contributing.
I would want to say that, first of all, it is part of the provision that the Hon Minister read to us earlier in the year.
The threshold for modification - on page two - reads:
“To provide a new rate of tax for the chargeable income of a resident individual for a year of assessment and to adjust the threshold for modified taxation”.
As the Chairman read, if one reads the Memorandum, one would see that there was an omission. So, the Attorney- General's Office is now coming back to correct an obvious mistake from the last time. That part is not controversial.
The other part of moving the presumptive taxation and increasing it from GH¢120,000 per annum, to GH¢ 200,000 per annum as the Hon Minister said, once again, is to ensure improvement in the operational efficiency of the Ghana Revenue Authority (GRA).
With those few words, I ask that we approve the Motion under item 13 on page eight of the Order Paper.
Question put and Motion agreed to.
The Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2015 accordingly read a Second time.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Yes, Hon Deputy Majority Leader?
Mr Agbesi 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, item 21.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Well, Hon Members, item numbered 21 on page 10 of the Order Paper --
Dr A. A. Osei— rose --
Yes, Hon Dr A. A. Osei?
Dr A. A. Osei 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am urging the Deputy Majority Leader -- This is a very important Motion and I plead with them that we defer the debate on such an important matter to when we have enough Hon Members in the House. It is important and let us not give the perception that we are trying to pass this Bill. It has just been distributed today.

Hon Members need time to read it. For the Committee members, we have read it but let us just give others the opportunity to read it too.

Just look at the number of Hon Members in the House. We would not want somebody to raise Standing Order 48.

When we make these requests, it is for the betterment of Ghana and not for any particular person. If the Hon Deputy Majority Leader can change his mind, I think he would be doing the House a favour.
Mr Agbesi 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, there is no controversy about this Motion. It is clear and I think that the Hon Ranking Member's -- The issues are straight to the point; there is no controversy over this one.
Dr A.A. Osei 1 p.m.
I did not say there was controversy. I said this is a very important issue. We do not have the numbers to do that. Do not let people go to Standing Order 48 and then we abandon it.
Hon Members have requested time to read it -- when we send that signal, I think that is the way we work in this House. Hon Members on the Minister's side have specifically requested that they need time to read. So, please --
Mr Avedzi 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would want to appeal to the Hon Ranking Member of the Finance Committee, that he knows the volume of work that the Committee has and he knows that even from here, we are going for a meeting. This is a way of clearing some of the arrears, so that we can have time to do the rest of the work.
This is not controversial, for that matter, at the Committee level, what we did was clear and everybody supported it that this is a re-financing of the facility. Just to appeal to him that, he should let us just clear this one, so that we can go and do the rest of the work.
Dr A. A. Osei 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the issue should not be about clearing. It is about the perception of how we do business in the House. The Committee reports to plenary -- we only make a recommen- dation. So, even if there is no disagreement there, when people have requested time to read it -- that is all we have to do.
Let them read it and first thing tomorrow, when we have numbers in the House, then we go through it. When the requests have come, it would be irresponsible on my part as the available Leader to ignore it. So, when we signalled, I thought the Majority would take it because that is how we do business here.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Yes, Hon Deputy Majority Leader, how do you respond?
Mr Agbesi 1 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we take the concern raised and we then proceed to item 19.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1 p.m.
Very well.
Item number 19 on the Order Paper, page ten -- Chairman of the Committee?
MOTIONS 1:10 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee (Emmanuel Kwasi Bandua) 1:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that this Honourable House adopts Report of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Gender and Children on the Convention on Protection of Children and Co-operation in respect of Inter-country Adoption, The Hague, 1993.
Mr Speaker, in doing so, I beg to present the Committee's Report.
Introduction
The Hon Minister of Employment and Labour, Mr Haruna Iddrisu on behalf of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Ms Hanna Tetteh laid before the House, on Wednesday, 17th June, 2015, the Convention of 29th May, 1993 on the Protection of Children in respect of the inter-country adoption for consideration and report.
Pursuant to Article 75 (2) (b) of the 1992 Constitution of Ghana and Standing Orders 175 and 183, Mr. Speaker referred the convention to the Joint Committee on Gender and Children and Foreign Affairs for consideration and report.
Mr Isaac Osei (NPP -- Subin) 1:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion. Mr Speaker, in seconding this Motion, I wish to make a few comments.
First, with the permission of the Chairman, the heading 6.3 -- the word, “corporation” should actually read “Cooperation” and not “corporation” as in a firm but “cooperation” as relating to one another. So, Hon Chairman, that should be changed.
Secondly, Mr Speaker, I am seconding this Motion because I believe it is about time we tried to internalise within our

domestic law what are clearly international standards on the matter of inter-country adoption of children.

We are doing this 22 years after the original Hague Convention was adopted but I think it is better late than never. The burden that this puts on us, especially the relevant Ministries, is to try to amend the Children's Act to bring it in conformity with the Convention. This is something which came out very clear at the joint Committee meeting.

Mr Speaker, I wish to emphasise on three key things. The first is the question of adoptability -- whether the child who is to be adopted can actually be adopted.

The second is the question of placement -- whether there is a family - - and the original Convention is very clear about what a family is -- These days when we have bent the meaning of family -- but here, we are talking about a nuclear family with a father, a mother and children. So, this child should come into something.

Then, the question of eligibility -- whether a particular country is eligible to deal with Ghana on this particular subject matter.

Mr Speaker, I believe this is so important but we must emphasise that inter-country adoptions should be seen only as a last resort if we cannot do adoptions intra-country because of the cultural and social circumstances of our children. It is important that we emphasise the importance of intra-country adoption and hence, the need for us in the areas of the Children's Act, which affects adoption within our country for us to strengthen those laws, so that proper and adequate procedures are taken before a family can adopt children.

So, in my view, inter-country adoptions are a last resort but the Convention provides us with an opportunity to come up to speed with what the international practice is.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Thank you very much.
Hon Members, the Motion has been moved and seconded. It is for the consideration of the House.
Question put and Motion agreed to.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Yes, Hon Deputy Majority Leader, do we deal with the Resolution? -- [Interruption] -- Yes, we are in your hands.
Mr Agbesi 1:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the consequent Resolution, which is captured in item numbered 20 --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Very well.
Hon Members, item numbered 20 -- Resolution, by the Hon Minister for Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration.
Mr Agbesi 1:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we seek your permission and the indulgence of my Hon Colleagues for the Hon Deputy Minister for Gender, Children and Social Protection to take the Resolution on behalf of the Hon Minister.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:10 p.m.
Well, probably, in capturing it on the Order Paper, there was something missing. It could either be the Minister for Foreign
Affairs and Regional Integration or the Minister for Gender, Children and Social Protection. So, either one of them could move. [Interruption] --
Yes, Hon Minority Leader, leave is being sought for one of the Deputy Ministers to stand in for the substantive Minister.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would not have anything against the Hon Deputy Minister discharging that responsibility on behalf of the Hon Minister for Foreign Affairs and Regional Integration.
Mr Agbesi 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this is a joint Committee's Report by the Committees on Foreign Affairs and Gender and Children. So, it is a Report on the two Ministries.
The Hon Deputy Minister for Gender, Children and Social Protection is present. That is the reason we are seeking permission for her to move the Resolution because it is a joint Committee Report.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it looks like the Hon Deputy Majority Leader did not hear what I meant.
I said there was a Resolution, which was to be read by the Hon Deputy Minister. We do not have anything against the Hon Deputy Minister reading the Resolution and commending same to us for adoption.
Mr Speaker, but there is the item numbered 1 under the Resolution, that she must begin with. I am saying that she should read it to us,then we take it from there.
RESOLUTIONS 1:20 p.m.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with respect to the Hon Deputy Minister, I would want her to read the Resolution to this House. [Interruptions] -- It is a Resolution and she must read it to us. We are not in a hurry. So, let us hear her read it to us.
Mr Agbesi 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this has been the style. She moved and urged the House to adopt the Resolution. That is what she has done.
Mr Speaker, why does the Hon Minority Leader want her to read it?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Hon Minority Leader, why the insistence? This is because the practice has been that you make reference to the item number and the page or pages where it appears on the Order Paper, and then you go ahead and move the Motion.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I appreciate conventions and practices; but this is a serious convention that she is proposing to us to adopt. It is a very short Resolution. Let her read it and then the House would stand ready to follow her.

I do not understand the reason my Hon Colleague is resisting this.
Mr Abgesi 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the reason I said so is simple. At the end of the item numbered 20, which is a Resolution, it is stated there that “Now Therefore”, the House is urged to do A,B, C and D.
That is exactly what the Hon Deputy Minister is urging the House so to do; that House do hereby resolve. That is what the Hon Deputy Minister is asking us to do. I do not see any problem.
Mr Isaac Osei 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe that the Hon Minority Leader is more interested in the preamble to the Resolution. This is because the preamble forms or provides the basis for the Resolution. Perhaps, the Hon Deputy Minister would just read the preamble; it does not spoil anything.
Mrs Della Sowah 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that,
WHEREAS by the provisions of article 75 of the Constitution any Treaty, Agreement, or Convention executed by or under the authority of the President in the name of Ghana is made subject to ratification either by an Act of Parliament or by a Resolution of Parliament sup- ported by the votes of more than one-half of all the Members of Parliament.
IN ACCORDANCE with the said article 75 of the Constitution, the President has caused to be laid before Parliament through the Minister responsible for Foreign
Affairs and Regional Integration, the Convention on Protection of Children and Co-operation in respect of Inter-country Adoption, The Hague, 1993 on 17th June 2015. NOW THEREFORE, this Honourable House hereby resolves to ratify the said Convention on Protection of Children and Co-operation in respect of Inter-country Adoption, The Hague, 1993.
Mr Emmanuel K. Bandua 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.
Question proposed.
Minority Leader (Mr Kyei-Mensah- Bonsu) 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I really cannot understand why in encouraging the Hon Deputy Minister who moved for the adoption of that Resolution, the Hon Deputy Majority Leader was resisting. I do not understand. I am not too sure that there is anything to hide. It is just a simple Resolution -- a two paragraphed Resolution -- the reading of which was not going to take more than two minutes. The Hon Deputy Majority Leader says , no. I do not understand.
Mr Speaker, if he could explain to us; I do not just understand this.
Hon Minority Leader, you have made your contribution. Can we, therefore, put the Question?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with respect, what Motion is before us for consideration?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
It is a Resolution.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, yes, it is a Motion for the adoption of a Resolution but Mr Speaker, what is the Resolution?
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Hon Minority Leader, I can see in between the lines; I know what you are driving at. [Laughter]
Can we make some progress?
Question put and Motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
Mr Agbesi 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, most of the committees are working on their reports for submission to the House.
In the circumstance, I would want to crave your indulgence, so that we suspend the House for at least, an hour. This is for us to come back at 3.00 p.m. to continue with the consideration of the reports.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
What time do you want us to come back? [Inter- ruption] -- 3.00 p.m.
Hon Minority Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:20 p.m.
Very well, Mr Speaker, if the reports are not ready, we could --
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Very well.
Hon Members, Sitting is accordingly suspended until 3.00 p.m. today. Indeed, this is to enable committees to work on the reports, which should be brought for the consideration of the House.
rose
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, may I just sound to my Hon Colleagues that the practice of any Parliament is that, if the Hon Speaker in the Chair calls for adjournment and he has not risen, the rest of us do not rise.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Very well. Thank you very much.
So, Sitting is suspended until 3.00 p.m.
1.29 p.m. -- Sitting suspended.
4.20 p.m. -- Sitting resumed.
MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader?
Mr Bagbin 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I propose that we take item numbered 21 on page 10 of the Order Paper.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Item numbered 21.
MOTIONS 1:20 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee (Mr James K. Avedzi) 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 80(1) which require that no Motion shall be debated until at least forty-eight hours have elapsed between the date on which notice of the Motion is given and the date on which the Motion is moved, the Motion for the adoption of the Report of the Finance Committee on the Medium Term Loan Facility Agreement between the Ghana Cocoa Board (COCOBOD) and the Bank of Tokyo- Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd., Credit Agricole Corporate and Investment Bank, DZ Bank

AG Deutsche Zentral-Genossenschafts- bank, Natixis, NedBank Capital, Standard Bank, and Societe General S.A. for an amount of three hundred million united states Dollars (US$300,000,000.00) for the refinancing of Cocoa Bills and a request for waiver of stamp duty amounting to US$3,000,000.00 on an Offshore Syndicated Receivables-backed Trade Finance Facility of US$300,000,000.00 in respect of the refinancing of Cocoa Bills, may be moved today.
Dr A. A. Osei (NPP -- Old Tafo) 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this is a procedural Motion. I beg to second the Motion.
Question put and Motion agreed to.
Resolved accordingly.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
I believe item numbered 22?
Yes?
Hon Annoh-Dompreh, I will put the Question again --
Mr Frank Annoh-Dompreh 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am respectfully coming under the strength of Standing Order 48.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
What is that?
MrAnnoh-Dompreh 1:20 p.m.
“The presence of at least one-third of all the Members of Parliament besides the person presiding shall be necessary to constitute a quorum of the House.”
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Thank you very much Hon Annoh-Dompreh.
What is happening is that, there are various committee sittings in the main
Block. So, your Hon Leaders would consult you.
You have a good point but we are just waiting while they try to inform the committees.
In the Conference Room next to my office on the 10th floor, I believe the Committee on Education is there and usually when we are considering estimates, we take some of these things into consideration.
Yes?
Mr Ignatius BaffourAwuah 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker,what you are saying is very true but the unfortunate thing is that, the Hon Majority Chief Whip sent word round that all committee works should cease, so that Hon Members could come to the floor to help in the deliberation on the floor. Unfortunately, some committees are still holding their sittings.
So, maybe, at a point in time, we should be strong on the committees to tell them that they should suspend their activities.
Take the Finance Committee,for instance, we were in a meeting but had to stop to come to the floor to debate.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Yes?
Alhaji Mohammed-Mubarak Mun- taka 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my Hon College is right. I went round. So, my Hon Deputy Majority Whips are going to get the other committees to come.
Mr Speaker, we can proceed while we make efforts to get our Hon Colleagues in the Chamber.
MrAnnoh-Dompreh 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I respect the positon of Hon Muntaka and of course, my own Leader, but it would not be out of place if through your good
office, you give a certain reasonable time by which we think that you should rule.
Mr Speaker, this is because we can wait till eternity and they would never come, possibly. So, if you could rule on this, 10 or 20 minutes would be most appreciated.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Hon Annoh-Dompreh, you have just com- pleted a programme of Bachelor of Laws (LLB) and you know, as it is said in equity that equity, is as long as the Chancellor's foot.
So, you said I should give a reasonable time. I have taken note. I will decide that. Let us go to the next Motion.
Motion numbered 22, yes?
Dr A. A. Osei 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I know we operate by our Standing Orders. My Hon Colleague here said “reasonable” and the Standing Orders did not say “rea- sonable''. So, I thought you were going to correct him. He said it as if, it is at your discretion.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Yes!
Dr A. A. Osei 1:20 p.m.
I know that you are a man of the rule of law and he should not tempt you to stray from our Standing Orders.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Hon Akoto Osei.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:20 p.m.
I am just speaking to him. Our Standing Orders give him --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 1:20 p.m.
Hon Akoto Osei, I have been wondering what I would do without your guidance.
Dr A. A. Osei 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was not giving you guidance. I was advising my --
MOTIONS 1:20 p.m.
Chairman of the Committee (Mr Avedzi) 1:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move, that this Honourable House adopts the Report of the Finance Committee on the Medium Term Loan Facility Agreement between the Ghana Cocoa Board (COCOBOD) and the Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd., Credit Agricole Corporate and Investment Bank, DZ Bank AG Deutsche Zentral- Genossenschaftsbank, Natixis, NedBank Capital, Standard Bank, and Societe General S.A. for an amount of three hundred million United States dollars (US$300,000,000.00) for the refinancing of Cocoa Bills and a request for waiver of stamp duty amounting to US$3,000,000.00 on an Offshore Syndicated Receivables- backed Trade Finance Facility of US$300,000,000.00 in respect of the Refinancing of Cocoa Bills.
Introduction
The Medium Term Loan Facility Agreement between the Ghana Cocoa Board (COCOBOD) and the Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd, Credit Agricole Corporate & Investment Bank, DZ Bank, Ag Deusche Zentral- Genossenschaftbank, Natixis, Nedbank Capital, Standard Bank, and Societe Generale S.A. for an amount of three hundred millionUnited States dollars (US$300,000,000.00) for the refinancing of Cocoa Bills and a request for Waiver of
Stamp Duty amounting to US$3,000,000.00 on offshore Syndicated Receivables- backed Trade Facility of US$300,000,000.00 for the refinancing of Cocoa Bills were presented to the House by the Hon Minister of Finance Mr Seth E. Terkper on Wednesday, 9th December, 2015 in accordance with article 181 and 174(2) of the 1992 Constitution. The Rt Hon Speaker referred the request to the Finance Committee for consideration and report in accordance with Order 169 of the Standing Orders of the Parliament of Ghana.
The Committee was assisted in its deliberations by the Hon. Deputy Minister for Finance, Mr Ato Baah Forson, the Chief executive Officer of Cocoa Board, Dr Stephen Opuni and officials from the Ministry of Finance and Ghana Cocoa Board and hereby submits this Report.
The Committee is grateful to the Hon Deputy Minister, the Chief Executive Officer and officials from the Ministry of Finance and Cocoa Board for the assistance.
Reference
The Committee referred to the following additional documents during its deliberations:
i. The 1992 Constitution of Ghana.
ii. The Standing Orders of the Parliament of Ghana.
iii. The Loans Act 1970 (Act335).
iv. Ghana Cocoa Board Act, 1984
(PNDCL 81).
Background
The Ghana Cocoa Board in collabora- tion with the Bank of Ghana issued 182 days Bills to finance cocoa purchases in
the 2012/2013 and 2013/2014 crop seasons. Due to liquidity challenges arising as a result of low revenues resulting from low cocoa prices recorded in 2012/13 and 2013/14 crop seasons, the Facility has been rolled over on maturity over the period.
As a result of high interest payments on the Bills, the Board of Directors of the Ghana Cocoa Board gave approval for COCOBOD to take a medium- term facility for an amount of three hundred million United States Dollars to refinance the principal and interest of the 182 day Bills which currently amounts to GHC 1.354 billion.
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
Hon Member?
Dr Prempeh 4:30 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, I was going through the Standing Orders and I am not talking about anything -- the House was suspended because of an issue. When we came back, like you have called us back,

we have to settle on that issue that we were suspended in the first place without somebody necessarily rising to bring it back again -- because then we would have defeated our own purposes. So, I am asking whether those conditions have been met.

Mr Speaker, the Business Committee did not even facilitate our lunch -- the clock has gone missing -- [Laughter] -- and it is very difficult. That is why Hon Members are not here. The Business Committee --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
But where is the clock?
Dr Prempeh 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is even more serious. We will come to that as our second issue.

It is true. Yesterday, one -- [Inter- ruption] -- do not let me mention names here, Agbesi --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
It is Hon Agbesi or the Hon Member for Ashaiman. Not “Agbesi.”
Dr Prempeh 4:30 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Deputy Majority Leader, wanting to continue with Government Business, should not provoke us to start mentioning committees.If I do some of the reports that have been laid, we will go back to them
-- 4:30 p.m.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
That is why I have not recognised him. So, continue.
Dr Prempeh 4:30 p.m.
So, Mr Speaker, please,
let the Hon Majority Leader ensure that if we are suspended and we are coming back, lunch would be provided for Hon Members because of the extended Sitting -- and it has not been done. And the reason we were suspended, which I was not here and I do not know, whether that condition has also been met because it would be problematic if we continue.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
Hon Majority Leader, I think your intervention is needed at this stage for reassurance before we proceed.
Mr Alban S. K. Bagbin 4:30 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
Hon Members, do you think that these are matters that we should be discussing on the floor -- lunch? I think that the Leadership will take it up. Do you think it should be on the record?
Mr Bagbin 4:30 p.m.
It should not. But I am just saying --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
I think that whether it was provided, is a matter
that should be discussed at the Leadership level. That is what I think.
So, let us proceed.
Yes, Hon Chairman of the Committee?
Mr Avedzi 4:30 p.m.
Justification for the request
The average FOB prices of cocoa per ton recorded in the period, 2012/13 to 2013/14, during which the cocoa bills were raised were US$2,130, and US$2,300 respectively. Notwithstanding, Govern- ment maintained its commitment to paying farmers remunerative prices, even though cocoa prices remained low during the 2- year period. In addition, fertilizer and chemicals stock requirements, which were needed to maintain production levels, had to be borne by COCOBOD.
This resulted in the rollover of the cocoa bills, which is now adversely affecting COCOBOD's finances. It has therefore become necessary to refinance the cocoa bills, which attract an average interest rate of 29 per cent per annum. Refinancing the bills with proceeds from the Medium term facility will improve the cash flows, liquidity and the viability of the COCOBOD and reduce high interest payment on Bills.
Terms of the facility
Legal cost and other expenses : US$50,000 per annum Agency fee security margin : Assignment of Cocoa Contract for 110%
of facility amount
Interest on cash collateral deposit : To be market-related LIBID
Underwriting level : Fully underwritten
Estimated total cost : US$31,331,937 (Excluding Legal Fees)
Maturity : 4 years
Repayment period : 3 year
Grace period : 1 year

The terms and conditions of the medium-term loan Agreement are as follows:

Loan amount : US$300 million

Interest margin : Libor +350BPS Nil

Commitment fee : 200BPS Flat

Participation and arrangement fee : To be negotiated

Required waiver of Stamp Duty

The provisions of section 32(6) of the Stamp Duty Act, 2005 (Act 689) makes it imperative to pay a Stamp Duty of 1 per cent on loan facilities. To ensure that the full value of the loan is used to refinance cocoa Bills, there is the need to waive the Stamp Duty on the loan facility.

The amount of tax waiver required is 1 per cent Stamp Duty on US$300,000,000.00 amounting to US$3,000,000.00. Parliament is therefore being requested to grant a waiver of Stamp Duty amounting to US$3,000,000.00 on the offshore Syndicated Receivables-Backed Trade Facility of US$300,000,000.00 in respect of the refinancing of Cocoa Bills.

Observations

Financial benefits of the facility

The Committee was informed that the Ghana Cocoa Board in 2012/2013 and 2013/ 2014 crop season issued four 182 day Bills to help raise funds to finance cocoa purchases. This became necessary because of a fall in the international price of cocoa during the period and the need

to raise additional funds to finance the operations of cocoa Board. The Deputy Minister explained that cocoa prices during the period fell as low as US$2,130, and US$2,300 respectively and that notwithstanding, Government maintained its commitment to paying farmers remunerative prices. Again, fertiliser and chemicals stock requirements, which were needed to maintain production levels, had to be borne by COCOBOD.

This created the situation where the syndicated facility acquired earlier in the two years running could not support the full operations of the Board. Cocoa Board therefore issued four Bills with face value of GHC 1,182,297,161.70 and a discount rate of 29 per cent amounting to GH¢ 172,510,432.30 to support its operations.

The total indebtedness at maturity which is adversely affecting COCOBOD's finances was quoted as GH¢1,354,807,594.00 There has therefore been the need to refinance the Bills with the syndicated facility with a lower interest rate.

The Deputy Minster was certain that with this arrangement, Ghana Cocoa Board would make significant savings since the cost of the Medium Term Loan
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
Thank you.
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:30 p.m.
Yes?
Dr A. A. Osei 4:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion. But in so doing, I would want to start from where my Hon Colleague, Dr Prempeh started.
When the decision was taken to suspend Sitting, it was because Hon Members had indicated that we did not have a quorum and therefore, we should give time and that Hon Members needed to read it -- [Interruption] -- I raised it, please.
I thought when we were called, we would have enough Hon Members coming, so that -- On my side, there were concerns by some Hon Members that it had just been distributed in the morning and so, they had not read it. We do not have a quorum and the Hon Deputy
Majority Leader knows that. So, I thought that when the Hon Chief Whip came to call us, Hon Members had been invited here, especially those on the Government side, so that we can carry on business.
In principle, technically, I do not have any problem with the terms and conditions of the loan but there are other issues that Hon Members in other committees wanted to raise. And it is a loan. We are going to take a serious decision on a loan. So, I thought we would get enough Hon Members here to do that. But we are not convinced that that matter is being resolved.
So, when my Hon Colleagues raised the issue about the 10 minutes issue, I thought you were going to give a ruling and that there would ring the bell to compel Hon Members to get here. It should not be only a few of us here.
Hon Chief Whip, that is why some of us left the Committee to come here and I expected everybody to do the same. It is important that the perception that people have of this House be dispelled. We need to do this for ourselves, to dispel this perception that we are sleeping.We are not sleeping. And the more Hon Members are here, given that we are going through extended Sittings, will give comfort to everybody that we are serious about this loan.
Mr Speaker, it is not too long ago that the Ghana Cocoa Board (COCOBOD) borrowed US$1.8 billion. So, people think that if you have borrowed US$1.8 billion, why go and borrow US$300 million? It is a different issue but it is legitimate. So, I was expecting the Government side of the House to come and let us, together dispel this notion, but they are not here. I know it has passed the ten minutes, so, I
do not know whether I should stop for you to rule or I should continue.
I need your guidance.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 p.m.
The Motion is moved and supported and it is for the consideration of the House --
Dr A. A. Osei 4:40 p.m.
I did not finish my submission -- You want me to finish?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 p.m.
So, finish.
Dr A. A. Osei 4:40 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, I think that some of my Colleagues in the agriculture sector would want to speak on this matter, but it is in the interest of Parliament that whoever is meeting now be compelled to come here. Are they better than us? I do not think so.
This indiscipline that some c ommittees are taking up is not good for us. People should not believe that we are sleeping. That notion must be fully dispelled, and it can only be dispelled when we have an enormous number of Hon Members here and actively debating on such an important matter.
So, Mr Speaker, I would defer to my other Colleagues in the agriculture sector to comment on the matter.
Question proposed.
Mr Kwame Asafu-Adjei 4:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I wish the Hon Speaker would hold on until we have a full House. This is because, we are not dealing with an ordinary commodity. We are dealing with a
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 p.m.
The bell is being rung. I am counting the minutes.
Mr Agbesi 4:40 p.m.
-- rose --
Mr Speaker 4:40 p.m.
Hon Agbesi?
Mr Agbesi 4:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Motion has been moved, and the Ranking Member has supported it. No rule provides that we cannot debate, and that we need a full House before we could debate. That was a full contribution from the last Hon Member on the floor.
Mr Speaker, the Motion has been moved, it has been supported and so, we can go on with the debate. The Motion is such that, it is so important; the purpose of the loan is to the interest of this nation, and all Hon Members in this House need to support it because it is for the advancement and the interest of the nation. I duly call on all Hon Members to support the Motion.
MrAwuah 4:40 p.m.
on a point of order.
Mr Speaker, earlier on, the Hon Member for Nsawam-Adoagyiri raised the issue of Standing Order 48.
Mr Speaker, we are not debating the importance or otherwise of the Motion before us. It is about whether we have the requisite number to carry on business of the House. Mr Speaker, so, if the Hon Deputy Majority Leader should say that, what we are discussing is important, and therefore, irrespective of our rules, we should go on, perhaps, I would not agree with him.
Mr Speaker, once the issue has been raised, we may have to apply the rule. We were told that the Hon Deputy Majority Chief Whip had sent word round, that all committees should cease meetings and all members of various committees should come into the Chamber. It is well over 10 minutes now, and the numbers are still not encouraging. We do not even have the requisite number to carry on business. And so, Mr Speaker, I just would want to plead with you, that once again, the call made by the Hon Member for Nsawam- Adoagyiri be applied.
Mr Speaker 4:40 p.m.
Yes, Hon Bagbin?
Mr Bagbin 4:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the issue of quorum was raised, and you have caused the bell to be rung, and we just heard the ringing of the bell. I believe it is not yet 10 minutes since, and so, let us wait for the 10 minutes, while we actually ask the Hon Deputy Majority Chief Whip to go back to the committee rooms to summon Hon Members to come into the Chamber for us to continue with the debate. In fact, that is why Hon Ahmed Ibrahim left to the committee rooms to get Hon Members to come into the Chamber.
So, Mr Speaker, I would plead with you to allow the debate to flow, and then if the mandatory 10 minutes elapse, then we could allow ourselves. As of now, I do not believe it is 10 minutes since the ringing of the bell.
Mr Speaker 4:40 p.m.
Minority Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 4:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have been listening to contributions from Colleagues, especially, the Hon Majority Leader who was emphatic in his statement that, it is not yet 10 minutes since the call was made.
Mr Speaker, I was looking round. It is instructive to observe that the clocks in the House have all disappeared for whatever reason, and so, we are not able to tell whether it is 10 minutes or it is before 10 minutes.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:40 p.m.
So Hon Members, I will take it that, time has begun to run. The bell has been rung and the 10 minutes have begun from now. The 10 minutes would be according to my watch. We shall continue with the debate while the minutes start running.
Yes, Hon Member for Dormaa Central, before you start, let me just say that an Hon Member made a point that, it is a serious matter and that it needs a full House. I am sure he meant there should be a quorum. This is because, nowhere does it say in our Standing Orders that we need a full House to do anything. Once we have a quorum, we can go on with business.
Mr Kwaku Agyeman-Manu (NPP -- Dormaa Central) 4:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would like to respect to your ruling, but I am not doing this -- contributing to this debate right from the bottom of my heart honestly.
Mr Speaker, why should we come here to approve a loan of US$300,000,000.00 for COCOBOD? Is it not this same Minister for Finance who told this House on several occasions, including, even in the last Budget presented, that corpo- rations were being allowed to borrow
on their own balance sheets? So, what is our business in approving US$300, 000,000.00 for COCOBOD? Can COCO- BOD not borrow on its own balance sheet?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Minister for Finance, do you have a point of order?
Mr Terkper 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I just wish to correct the Hon Member, that COCOBOD is borrowing on its own balance sheet. What the House is doing is meeting the requirement for approval of a loan, which involves an international transaction. That is what we are doing -- article 181(5) of the Constitution.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Yes, Hon Member?
Mr Agyeman-Manu 4:50 p.m.
Thank you Mr Speaker, and thank you, Hon Minister for Finance.
Mr Speaker, from the Committee's Report --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Hon Assibey-Yeboah, do you have a Point of Order?
Dr Mark Assibey-Yeboah 4:50 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, were we also not told by the Finance Minister in the case of GNPC going for a foreign loan --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Hon Assibey-Yeboah, should I recognise you after this Hon Member, to contribute?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am correcting the erroneous impression that the Hon Minister created. This is because he is misleading the House. In the case of GNPC going for the US$700 million, they
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
The question of this article 181(5) of the Constitution is at large and that is why the Speaker has asked that Parliament sets up a committee to draw upon that. This is because the court has taken different decisions -- sometimes it is difficult to even know what they are talking about. So, I agree with you and even on the floor, people disagree whether we should enter into the agreement before it comes to Parliament or we should bring the terms - - So, I agree with you but there are matters outstanding.
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 4:50 p.m.
So Mr Speaker, COCOBOD is here not because they can borrow on their own balance sheet but because it is an international transaction.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Yes!
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 4:50 p.m.
So, it is not because they are able to borrow on their own balance sheet; it is an international transaction. So, they had to come to Parliament.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
I believe that what Hon Agyeman-Manu from Dormaa Central was saying is that the Hon Minister for Finance had told this House that now para-status are going to borrow on their own strength. So, why are they here?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 4:50 p.m.
What the Hon Minister had actually told us is that there are not going to be any new borrowings.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
All right. Thank you.
Hon Agyeman-Manu, continue, please.
Mr Agyeman-Manu 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am trying to quote from the Committee's Report, the justification for the request
-- 4:50 p.m.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Hon Member, does the audited accounts of COCOBOD come to the Public Accounts Committee of which you are the Chairman?
Mr Agyeman-Manu 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, are you asking a question? I did not get you properly. Can I hear your question again, please?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
No I am not supposed to do. So, let us [Laughter]
Mr Agyeman-Manu 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, for your information, the Public Accounts Committee, by its rules, can never invite COCOBOD for anything.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
You did not hear the question, how come you are answering it? [Laughter]
Hon Member, continue.
Mr Agyeman-Manu 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, what exactly has been done with the Bills that have been rolled over for the last two consecutive years or so? It is not clear in the Committee's Report, neither can anybody find it here.
Mr Speaker, the next question is on the terms of the facility -- “legal cost and other expenses to be negotiated”. Why should we approve such a thing? We do not even know how much we are approving. We want to approve and then somebody would go and sit somewhere to negotiate legal fees. How much would that be? Nobody has a cue about it. So, why should we approve such a loan? So, the actual cost is neither here nor there.
Mr Speaker, when looking at the Committee's Report, the estimated total cost, excluding legal fees is GH¢31.3 million. On page 2 of the Hon Minister for Finance's Memorandum or whatever it is to Parliament, paragraph 2, it is quoted, and Mr Speaker, with your permission, I beg to quote:
“The cost of the medium term loan facility is estimated at 39.6 million.”
Which is which?
Mr Speaker, so there are two different costs -- 31million here and 39 million there. So, what are we approving?
Mr Speaker, there is a new thing in this Agreement that I have never seen in this House -- before security margin. I do not even know what it is. Assignment of cocoa contract for 110 per cent of facility amount. So, we should also supply them with cocoa beans to the tune of 10 per cent plus GH¢ 300 million. How much is going to be paid for, is a projected amount that has been fixed. So, if cocoa prices change on the world market, we have tied ourselves to a particular price. What sort of arrangement is this?
Mr Speaker, the irony again is that the Finance Committee's Report is supposed to communicate to Hon Members of this House. I would want the Finance Committee Chairman, to explain to us what he means by Libor plus 350 BPS. How many of us in Parliament here understand this? --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Chairman of the Finance Committee?
Mr Agyeman-Manu 4:50 p.m.
Not only that; there is another one -- participating arrangement fee, 200 BPS flat. How does one communicate to Hon Members of Parliament to enable us understand and analyse to be able to help approve this facility?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Hon Agyemen-Manu, I have recognised him.
Mr Agyeman-Manu 4:50 p.m.
I am sorry, Mr Speaker.
Mr Avedzi 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, let me respond to my Hon Colleague. He first raised an issue about two different costs. He referred to the Memorandum of the Minister, that he is quoting GH¢39 million and then the Report is talking about 31 million. Which is which. I want to educate him. First of all --[Interruption]
Mr Avedzi 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was saying that the GH¢ 39 million is the annual cost which is in Ghana cedis. Then the US$31 million is the total cost of the facility for the period which is in dollars. So, one cannot compare the two. That is the education I was talking about.
This is the total cost of the facility for the period, excluding the legal fee, for the four-year period. It is in dollars. But the one in the Hon Minister's memorandum or the parliamentary Memorandum is the annual cost of GH¢39 million, which is in cedis, not in dollars.
Now, the second area about the terms and conditions of the facility, the 350 basis point is 3.5 per cent, and the 200 basis point is also 2 per cent. I believe that Hon Members of the House know that when we refer to basis point, it is in percentage, but if all of us do not know, then it is in percentage.
Dr A.A. Osei 4:50 p.m.
He asked about libor. He only talked about the basis point.
Mr Avedzi 4:50 p.m.
The libor is the London Inter-bank rate, plus 3.5 per cent.
Mr Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Hon Agyeman-Manu.
Mr Agyeman-Manu 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, so, you see why instead of telling everybody 3.5 per cent, he is telling us 350 basis points?
Mr Speaker, why would anybody want to go and borrow at 3.5 per cent libor plus 3.5 per cent again? That makes it a very expensive facility.
Mr Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Yes, Hon Akoto Osei.
Dr A.A.Osei 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that is why a person must take his time in trying to explain. You said 3.5 and he mentioned 3.5. What he meant was 3.5 plus 0.3, that is, 3.8, so, libor is 0.3.
Mr Agyeman-Manu 4:50 p.m.
The Chairman of the Finance Committee himself raised a point of order on me, so I referred him to what he said and what I heard, and I am arguing on that basis.
Mr Speaker, let me continue. I asked about this security margin. He did not tell us why this one is appearing here. I talked about having fixed a price for what cocoa beans we shall give in addition to the repayment of the facility. They have not talked about that.
Mr Speaker, on the writing level, fully underwritten, by whom? Some of us would like to know who is underwriting and what instruments we are using to do this underwriting.
Mr Speaker, we waived Stamp Duty for loans that had been procured to purchase cocoa, and for Bills that would be issued by the Bank of Ghana.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Hon Members, Order! Order!
Mr Agyeman-Manu 4:50 p.m.
Some of this money Mr Speaker, found itself in purchasing fertiliser and chemical stocks --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
There is noise from particular places. Hon

Hon Members, Order, please.

Hon Agyeman-Manu is recognised once more.
Mr Agyeman-Manu 4:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, when we grant tax exemptions and waivers, we grant them for specific purposes. When Cocoa Board syndicates and they come for some duty waiver, the rationale behind it is that, they are purchasing cocoa with that full amount, and we grant them that waiver based on the syndicated load they have procured.
Now, they are telling us that some of these moneys find themselves in purchasing fertiliser and chemicals for the cocoa industry.
When we go ahead and approve without questioning again and asking them why they used tax exemptions to procure fertiliser, when we have not approved for that, what are they going to tell us?
Mr Speaker, and they are coming back again with the waiver in addition to this GH¢300 million.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Hon Members, the Standing Order 48 was raised and the bell was rung, and at 5:48 p.m. the 10 minutes started to run. The 10 minutes is even past because I asked them to do a count.
According to what has been given to me, there are 92 Hon Members here. Of course, we know the rules if you do not agree to the numbers.
rose
Mr Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Hon Benito Owusu-Boi
Hon Benito Owusu-Bio?
Mr Benito Owusu-Bio 4:50 p.m.
Thank you Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, it is unfortunate, but I think we would like a headcount.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Under what Order are you coming?
Mr Owusu-Bio 4:50 p.m.
Under our Standing Orders, Mr Speaker.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
I know. Our Standing Orders are a whole book. Order what? I would like you to help me.
Mr Owusu-Bio 4:50 p.m.
The Clerk could help us, Mr Speaker.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Hon Members, this business of sitting down and shouting across, I will not accept it. If you stand up, I will recognise you. I will recognise you as many times as you stand up, but do not shout across. I will not accept that, please.
Dr A.A. Osei 4:50 p.m.
--rose--
Hon Akoto Osei?
Dr A.A.Osei 4:50 p.m.
Thank you Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, I have no intention of doubting the pronouncement of the Hon Speaker, that his information is that we have 92 Hon Members. So, I am assuming that we could have a quorum, but I am afraid that if we go in that direction, when we have to take a decision, it would be a different ball game altogether.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Which is half.
Dr A.A.Osei 4:50 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
So, what we could do is that we could debate the issues and postpone all the decisions till tomorrow.
Dr A.A.Osei 4:50 p.m.
Voila! But I thought that they would not go and give a number that would raise questions.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 4:50 p.m.
Hon Members, my hands are also tied by the Standing Orders. Once the question of quorum is raised, as you yourself said, Hon Akoto Osei, I have 10 minutes within which to react.
I started the process of counting at 5:48 p.m. It was noted by the Hon Member for Ablekuma West. She said it to herself, but I heard her, that it was 5:48 p.m. Her time agreed with mine.
So, at 5:58 p.m., I was supposed to have announced. Now, it is eight minutes past 5:00 p.m., but what happened was that I needed the headcount. I made my own count, and by my count, I was not too sure of my figure; so you can see it; 95 minus 2, so and so. Now, I was told we had 92.
Mr Owusu-Bio 4:50 p.m.
-- rose --
Mr Speaker 5:10 p.m.
Hon Owusu-Bio.
Mr Owusu-Bio 5:10 p.m.
Thank you Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, I come before you properly under Standing Order 113 (2), and it states;
“A Member may call for headcount or division if the opinion of Mr Speaker on the voice vote is challenged”.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:10 p.m.
Hon Members, Order 113 deals with situations at the conclusion of the debate. It gives us a very specific situation. That situation does not apply to Standing Order 48.
Standing Order 48 does not provide for headcount and the practice in the House has been that, after the headcount, the Speaker relies on the Clerks-at-the-Table for them to advise him on the numbers in the House. Of course, if there are five people here and I am told that they are 92 people, I cannot accept that. But if anybody has a strong reason to believe that the numbers are far less --This is because people are walking in and walking out --If the numbers are far less than what you think, then we cannot proceed. I do not think headcount applies in this case.
Yes, Hon Minority Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 5:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would wish that we do not get ourselves boxed in an arena of technicalities.
I noticed that there were not too many heads in the Chamber when the Hon Member raised the issue. Subsequently, I have seen many heads. Some endowed with hair, others experiencing some hair- line recession.
Mr Speaker, so, I thought we would not get ourselves into that corner. If we were to do that, I would say that the provisions contained in Standing Order 48, which says, with your permission, I beg to read:
“The presence of at least one-third of all the Members of Parliament besides the person presiding shall be necessary to constitute a quorum of the House.”
Standing Order 48(2) then says, with your permission, Mr Speaker, I beg to read:
“If at the time of sitting a Member takes notice or objection that there are present in the House, besides the person presiding, less than one- third of the number of all the Members of Parliament, and after an interval of ten minutes a quorum is not present, the person presiding shall adjourn the House without Question put until the next sitting day.”
Mr Speaker, inherent in this, is that, the person who raises the objection or who takes notice of less than one-third of Members in the Chamber, would have counted. So, if the Clerks-at-the-Table submit a number to the Chair, the Hon Member who took notice that we are less than one-third in the House can challenge it to say that there still we do not have one-third of Hon Members in the House.
Mr Speaker, this is inherent in Standing Order 48(2). The person can challenge it, because it would be the word of that Hon Member against the Clerks-at-the-Table who supplied the number to the Speaker and then which of them, is to be believed?
Mr Speaker, I am not saying that we should go there. This is because if we have to do so, we can litigate it here on the floor.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Majority Leader is saying that what I am saying is not correct. It is correct. He is wrong in what he is thinking and dreaming about.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:10 p.m.
Now, I do not know whether the Hon Minority Leader has developed a capacity to know what the Hon Majority Leader is thinking, because he is saying that what he is thinking is wrong.
Anyway, Hon Members, I will take the advice of the very experienced Hon Minority Leader, who has advised us that we should not litigate the issue; we should proceed, and I am minded to take his advice, because I am biased towards the position.
Hon Members, when you go to several Parliaments, you do not see one hundred people sitting there but they debate alright. The one-third provision in our Standing Orders, personally, I have a different view. But my personal view does not matter in these things --
Order! Order!
Hon Members, you have done well to be sitting here at five o'clock. Let us have some order and proceed.
Yes, Hon Agyeman-Manu -- five more minutes. You have had so many interruptions.
Mr Agyeman-Manu 5:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was talking about how the loan syndicated for the purchase of cocoa had been used for 2012/2013 and 2013/2014. I have the firm conviction that the taxes or the stamp duties waived was for a purpose. Some of these loans were applied not for the
Minister for Employment and Labour Relations (Mr Haruna Iddrisu)(MP) 5:10 p.m.
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to associate myself with the Motion ably moved by the Chairman of the Finance Committee.
Mr Speaker, I intend to elaborate on just two issues.
One, Mr Speaker, to refer to your Committee's Report on page 2 and to indicate that, Mr Speaker, when reference is made by a Committee of this House, for instance, reference to the 1992 Constitu- tion of Ghana in the Committee's Report, they share with us, that in discussing this matter, one of the reference documents they used, which undoubtedly becomes our “governance bible” is to be guided by the provisions of the Constitution.
Mr Speaker, I do so by responding to my Hon Colleague who just took his seat and to remind him that per article 174 of the 1992 Constitution, it is only Parliament that has the mandate to grant a waiver of taxes. Therefore, it is appropriate that when we are dealing with a loan for COCOBOD, and there are inbuilt issues relating to tax waiver, it is only appropriate that we respect the provisions of the Constitution, which under article 174 (2) says, with your indulgence, Mr Speaker, I beg to quote:
“Where an Act, enacted in accordance with clause (1) of this article, confers power on any person or authority to waive of vary a tax imposed by that Act, the exercise of the power of waiver or variation, in favour of any person or authority, shall be subject to the prior approval of Parliament by resolution.”
Dr Mathew Opoku Prempeh 5:10 p.m.
On a point of order.
Mr Speaker, I would want the Hon Minister for Employment and Labour Relations to point to us when this money was going to besecured by COCOBOD at that time where was Parliament. Were we in absentia or something? Why did they
not come to Parliament to take permission for the particular loan and now, they are coming on a waiver behind a loan to repay a loan?
Mr Speaker, that is the problem -- when they disregard Parliament in their initial footsteps and they get stuck and they come and labour us with these problems. They should tell us why they did not come in the first place when they were going for this loan.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:10 p.m.
Yes, Hon Haruna Iddrisu?
Mr H. Iddrisu 5:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, interestingly, my Hon Colleague is not here, so I intend to respond to that as the first issue and the second, which he also raised.
I have heard many times when Mr Speaker, we have said that this House must be still respecting the provisions of article 181, specifically not that which relates to loan, but that which relates to international economic transactions. I am aware that there is a legal engineering for us to have a better understanding of the provisions of the Constitution, vis-à-vis recent judgement by the Supreme Court that seems to give guidance on it. So, it is only legally appropriate that our Hon Colleague has raised it.
Mr Speaker, my final comment, is that I would associate myself with any comment that COCOBOD must endeavour to increase production through legitimate interventions that assure farmers and not the excuse that we have aged farms or aged farmers. Certainly, that cannot be.
If we have cocoa production declining, as a country, we have achieved one million metric tonnes before. We have
been to 700,000 metric tonnes and we are coming down to 400,000 metric tonnes. We must find out what is wrong in order that we can up cocoa production and continue to reward them adequately as this Government has done in the last few years.
Dr OwusuAfriyieAkoto (NPP -- Kwadaso) 5:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I rise to speak against this Motion with all the force that I can muster -- [Hear! Hear!]
I would go to the heart of this request,which is the Committee's Report on the justification for the request. It says that these loans,;2012/2013 and 2013/2014 that the cocoa Bills were raised and at the time, the world price was US$2,130 and US$2,300 respectively.
The justification for this, Mr Speaker, is that the Government maintained a commitment to paying farmers remunera- tive prices. That is the basis of the justification.
Mr Speaker, that is farther from the truth. This is because in 2012/2013, Government increased producer prices by only 5 per cent from the previous year. It is on record, Mr Speaker.
The following year, 2013/2014, there was no increase in producer prices. That is the first point. Mr Speaker, the second point is that, in 2012/2013, the cedi depreciated by 27 per cent or so. The following year, it depreciated by 35 per cent.
Mr Speaker, what that means is that, the proceeds from the cocoa that were brought to the Bank of Ghana were exchanged at a higher cedi rate than before. The increase was not used to increase producer prices. So, it is totally unjustifiable for the Committee to recommend that we should approve of this request; when in fact, the basic reason we are asking for is not there, the
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:20 p.m.
Hon Chairman of the Finance Committee, Hon Avedzi, do you have a point of order?
Mr Avedzi 5:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have a point of order.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:20 p.m.
Under what Standing Order?
Mr Avedzi 5:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my point of order is that -- [Interruption]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:20 p.m.
While you look for the Standing Order, he is coming under --
Dr Akoto 5:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I will not yield to him.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:20 p.m.
Hon Members, at 5 o'clock, I will limit the number of interjections. I will apply the rules strictly. So, so tell me the Standing Order you are coming under.
Dr Akoto 5:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the other point I would want to make -- [Interruption]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:20 p.m.
Hon Member, hold on. He has found the Order he is coming under.
Mr Avedzi 5:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the basic purpose of this facility -- [Interruption]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:20 p.m.
Under what Standing Order are you coming under?
Mr Avedzi 5:20 p.m.
Point of correction. [Laughter].
The correction is that, the purpose of this facility is to refinance existing Bills. It
is not a new loan that is being taken. The facility is to refinance existing Bills.
Dr Akoto 5:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, this is not a point of order. It is not the appropriate -- [Interruption]
Dr A. A. Osei 5:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, these Bills have been existing since 2012. They are just being rolled over. The impression he gives that it has just been issued, is not true. No! Since that period, it has been issued and they have kept rolling it over. His point is not correct. He needs to go back to that period.
Mr Avedzi 5:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think that the Hon Ranking Member is -- [Interruption]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:20 p.m.
Hon Chairman of the Finance Committee and Hon Ranking Member, you are turning this debate into table tennis make ping pong. I will not allow it. Please sit down.
Dr Akoto 5:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, even the serious one is, if you look at the Budget Statement, page 82, paragraph 394, it states very clearly:
“During the 2013/2014 season, COCOBOD purchased 740,000 metric tonnes compared to a target of 850,000 metric tonnes”.
This means that COCOBOD bought less than 110,000 metric tonnes less than it had come to this House to get approval to take a loan of US$1.8 billion. What happened to the difference which could have been used to defray this outstanding Bill? That is the central part of my opposition to this request.
It is unjustifiable, Mr Speaker, to the cocoa farmers of this country and to the people of this country to come to us, that we should raise US$300 million in order to pay a loan, the reason for which
I have busted by saying that the remuneration to the farmers was not there. This is because, there was no increase to the producer price to cocoa farmers to come and justify that as a basis. There is no additional cost, Mr Speaker.
I would strongly argue against the approval of this loan. The loan is totally unnecessary; COCOBOD should have found the money from at least, the left overs,the 110,000 metric tonnes, which they did not use the money to buy to resolve this without coming for additional moneys from us.
Thank you, Mr Speaker -- Hear! Hear!
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:20 p.m.
There are so many Hon Members on their feet but I will take two more contributions. I will want guidance from the Leaders.
Hon Minority Leader, there are so many Hon Members on their feet on your side. I give you the opportunity to nominate two for me. If you turn your back, you would see them.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 5:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, when we started the consideration of this Motion, there were very few Hon Members in the Chamber. Now, many Hon Members have been summoned. I do not think that they have been invited only to vote but to contribute.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:20 p.m.
Are you declining the invitation?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 5:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would pray you to grant many more Hon Members the opportunity to speak to the issue.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:30 p.m.
I will see how it goes.
Mr Benjamin K. Kpodo (NDC -- Ho Central) 5:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I rise to speak in favour of this loan for COCOBOD.
Mr Speaker, the fundamental issue is that, COCOBOD already has a loan which is running --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:30 p.m.
Hon Akoto Osei, do you have a point of order?
Dr A. A. Osei 5:30 p.m.
It is a point of order.
We are contributing to a Motion, not speaking in favour of a loan. When an Hon Member starts, let us know if he is contributing -- He said he is speaking in favour of the loan. There is a Motion. In the contribution, you may favour that but he should say he is contributing to the Motion. We have our rules.
Mr Kpodo 5:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am speaking in favour of the Motion.
The issue is that, COCOBOD already has a loan, which is about GH¢1.3billion, which is running and a new facility is being taken on better conditions to re- finance this loan. It does not mean that the debt stock is going to increase; it is just a substitution of a cedi denominated loan with a foreign currency loan.
So, I do not really see the burden that is additionally going to be placed on the COCOBOD. The issue is that, if the new loan, US$3million is not taken abroad, are we saying that COCOBOD would not pay the GH¢1.34billion? It would be paid eventually. But what we are saying is that, the current rate of the amount being devoted to servicing the current one, is higher than what we are going to get from the US$300million loan.
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:30 p.m.
Yes, Hon Dr Prempeh, do you have a point of order?
Dr Prempeh 5:30 p.m.
On a point of order.
Mr Speaker, the Hon member on the floor is a Member of the Finance Committee and for that matter, a very important Committee.The Constitution says that, when we are contracting loans, we should come to them, so that they can assess and advise the plenary.

That time, we were in Parliament. So, he should tell us. If you go surreptitiously behind the Speaker and Parliament, to go and borrow, then they come to tell us they want refinance.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:30 p.m.
Thank you.
Please, do not put me into --
Yes, Hon Member, continue.
Mr Kpodo 5:30 p.m.
Thank you very much.
When he said that this loan was surreptitiously taken by COCOBOD, that cannot be correct. It is a cedi denominated loan which we took in our money market in Ghana here. So, we do not have to come to this House for approval.
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:30 p.m.
Hon Dr Akoto Osei?
Dr A. A. Osei 5:30 p.m.
On a point of order.
Mr Speaker, with respect, when we approve the budget for the Government of Ghana, it does not include the budget for COCOBOD. So, this thing about “we do not have to come to Parliament”does not apply. We approve a certain ceiling of domestic borrowing for Central Government, not COCOBOD.
What my Hon Colleague is seeking to remind him even though he was not in Parliament, is that the Bank of Ghana did this on behalf of COCOBOD but COCOBOD should have come to Parliament. The Bank of Ghana does it. So, when the President said that all loans come to Parliament, it is not true. The COCOBOD is not Central Government so they should have come to tell us that they have problems, then we would go through and approve it but they did not. The Hon Member was not in Parliament. I am just educating him.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:30 p.m.
Hon Dr AkotoOsei, thank you.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:30 p.m.
Hon Members, do not let us belabour the point. This is because even if the amount was captured in the budget and we approved the budget, there is a principle of law, that we have to read the law, in this case, the Constitution as a whole. And the Constitution tells us that we must come under article 181. So, it is not sufficient to approve the budget.
But you continue, you do not need to answer every question unless you have the answer.
Mr Kpodo 5:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, although I do not need to answer every question, Hon Dr Akoto Osei cshould know that you do not have to come to Parliament to know the operations of the COCOBOD. I know of the operations of the COCOBOD.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:30 p.m.
What did you say you do not have to do?
Mr Kpodo 5:30 p.m.
You do not have to be a Member of Parliament to know how the COCOBOD operates. That is what I am trying to get him to know. -- [Interruption]
Mr Kpodo 5:30 p.m.
But my main point is that, I would repeat this statement, that the COCOBOD already has a loan which is running --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:30 p.m.
Hon Member, you move on. You keep on going back to the original load but what they are saying is that it did not come to Parliament. I do not have that information here and I am not prepared to take that.
Mr Kpodo 5:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the reason this US$300million loan facility is coming to Parliament is that, it is a foreign contract and that is why it is coming here. That is the difference. So, I think that we would rather ease the financial problems of COCOBOD by approving this loan.
Thank you very much.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:30 p.m.
I will recognise Hon Ata Akyea.
Hon Kennedy Agyapong, I will recognise you.
Mr Samuel Ata Akyea (NPP-- Abuakwa South) 5:30 p.m.
Thank you Mr Speaker for this opportunity.
Increasingly, this august House is being described as rubber stamp that anything the Executive would bring to this House, we do not interrogate it, we do not
look at it critically and we just approve it. And it is very significant that we clear ourselves of this bad image.
Mr Speaker, I am not an economist; I am not a financial person but a cursory look at the Report of the Finance Committee, and it is very scary -- I do not know of any arrangement of a contract in which some financial dimensions of the contract is open-ended. Since my living experience as a lawyer, I have never seen a contract in which some expenditure dimension of the contract is open-ended. I am making reference to this nomenclature called “Legal cost and other expenses”.
As for legal cost, we all know it, that when you cannot even determine your legal cost, you do not start working. And if for some other reasons, between the time you start work and by the conclusion of the work, all the work is not known, international best practices enjoin you to put a cap on the legal cost. In any case, if I am assigned further jobs apart from what has been given me, it would not exceed this much.
Mr Speaker, what we have here, there is no end in sight. I can assure you that, this can be a veritable vehicle for all manner of corruption. And I am bold to say it that, if it turns out that other expenses were also enveloped, which cannot be explained, this House would be ridiculed, that we are the people with all manner of knowledge and experience and you permitted an open-ended contract of this nature.
So, Mr Speaker, my humble request is that, unless and until we have what it takes as the legal cost or fundamentally, the cap on it, and what the other expenses entail, this Honourable House should not approve this Motion. It is very significant.
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:30 p.m.
Hon Quashigah, do you have a point of order?
Mr Quashigah 5:30 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker, I am a bit confused. I do not know which contract the Hon Member was talking about. If he can educate me.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:30 p.m.
Which is the contract?
Mr Quashigah 5:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I want him to educate me.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:30 p.m.
Hon Member for Abuakwa South, you made a very interesting point that the provisions in the contract are open-ended. It is a
legitimate question for Hon Quashigah to ask, what contract you are talking about. So, take that on board and educate all of us.
Mr Akyea 5:40 a.m.
I think he is buckled. I am talking about the terms of the facility and he has now read it and he is raising an objection. -- [Interruption]
We are talking about the terms of the facility in the contract. Mr Speaker, I pardon his ignorance. He does not know what he is talking about. [Interruptions] With all due respect.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:40 a.m.
Hon Atta Akyea, answer the question.
Mr Akyea 5:40 a.m.
I am talking about Hon Quashigah, if he would pay regard to page 3, paragraph 5 of the Report --
Terms of the facility
The terms and conditions of the medium-term loan Agreement are as follows:
Loan Amount : US$300 million
Interest Margin : Libor+350BPS
Commitment Fee : Nil
Participation and Arrangement Fee : 200BPS Flat
Legal cost and Other Expenses : To be negotiated
Mr Governs Kwame Agbodza 5:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, I would want your direction on this.
My Hon Colleague asked a very important question. Could we call this a contract? This is because assuming we do this and the Hon Minister for Finance
or whoever matters, refuses to sign, could we still call this a contract? That is what we want to understand, whether this is a contract because I do not think that Hon Avedzi signs contracts on behalf of the Government of Ghana.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:40 a.m.
Hon Members, we are coming under Standing
Order 176. I advise all of us to advert our minds to it. It talks about the terms and conditions of the loan. So, what the Committee has done is that it has put the essential terms and conditions of the loan in the Report. So, it is legitimate for an Hon Member to refer to those terms and conditions.
Hon Quashigah, we do not need to see the full contract. We are trusting our Committee; they have given us the essential terms and conditions and an Hon Member can comment on it. What you are saying then is that, every time they bring this Report, they should annex the full contract. We trust our Committee and so, we would continue.
Mr Akyea 5:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, another frightening dimension to the terms of the facility apart from the legal fees that we cannot come to terms with is the agency fee. Who is the agent and what are his bona fides? We do not know. What is worse?
Mr Seth E. Terkper 5:40 a.m.
On a point of order Mr Speaker, we are told on page 5 that this is a syndicated facility led by the Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi and the parties to the syndication are indicated there. We have come to the floor of this House with several syndicated facilities where these fees have been specified. They are not fees that are being hidden from the House.
Mr Akyea 5:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister for Finance has not helped us in telling us who the leading agent is. We are not sure and how many are they? How can you tie the agency fee to the life of
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:40 a.m.
Hon Members, let us have some order. There are too many conversations going on, sitting at the backbench does not give you the licence to have another conversation. I want to remind you that just behind us is a place where Hon Members could retire and hold their discussions.
Hon Members, let us have order.
I will start mentioning names and walking people out. I have tried to control this House and I will not allow it to degenerate.

Who is that still speaking?

Hon Member, sit down.

Yes, Hon Atta Akyea?
Mr Akyea 5:40 a.m.
Mr Speaker, thank you for bringing order.
One dimension that I would want us to interrogate is the fact that we should not borrow for borrowing sake. As a young man, I believe that increasingly -- [interruptions] -- increasingly, National Democratic Congress (NDC) is pushing this country into a debt quagmire. If you borrow -- [Interruption ]
Alhaji Inusah A. B. Fuseini 5:40 a.m.
On a point of order.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:50 p.m.
I will recognise you. I thought you were going to raise the question of young men because Hon Atta Akyea, I do not know your definition of a “young man” but continue.
Mr Akyea 5:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am a fairly young man but I am speaking for a lot of young men who are looking at the future of this country.
I wish to emphasise that previously, the same COCOBOD borrowed US$1.8 billion --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:50 p.m.
Hon Atta Akyea, you should be concluding.
Mr Akyea 5:50 p.m.
Yes, I am concluding.
There is a necessity to have a forensic audit of how the moneys were applied because at the end of the day, if you borrow so much --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:50 p.m.
Hon Atta Akyea, your last sentence.
Mr Akyea 5:50 p.m.
My last sentence is that if they cannot justify how the previous moneys they borrowed were applied, then we should not be generous in giving them more money because that is an abyss; we do not know the end. [Hear! Hear!]
Minister for Roads and Highways (Alhaji Inusah Abdulai B. Fuseini)(MP) 5:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, thank you for the recognition.
Mr Speaker, indeed, this facility is very important and actually, an innovative one.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:50 p.m.
Hon Members, if we do not have order, this is my last -- with respect to all of you. We are all Colleagues and this is my last warning. The next time, I will mention names. Even when I said this is my last warning, the Hon Member for -- is still talking.
Alhaji I. A. B. Fuseini 5:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was saying that, this facility is not only innovative, it is in tandem with the practice that has been embarked upon in the last few years to ensure that farmers who produce cocoa are paid for their products and are paid in good time.
Dr Akoto 5:50 p.m.
On a point of order.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister is misleading this House -- seriously. He has not even read the Report. And then what is the relevance of what he is saying to what we are discussing?
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 5:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would not dignify his intervention with a response.
Dr Matthew O. Prempeh 5:50 p.m.
On a point of order.
Mr Speaker, I thought the Hon Member for Kwadaso had cautioned the Hon Member for Tamale Central to concentrate on the Report. It is obvious he has not read the Report and he is talking about “this money is for receivable trade facility” He is now talking about “cocoa prices”. What has this Report got to do with cocoa prices?
Mr Speaker, we should not allow --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:50 p.m.
Hon Member, let him make his contribution. I will decide.
Dr Prempeh 5:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, he is still reading. We would want to hold high our heads and he is taking us back.
Mr First Deputy Speaker 5:50 p.m.
I will decide whether it is relevant.
Hon Member, continue.
Alhaji I. A.B. Fuseini 5:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am still reading because I am dumb founded by their objection, and I am convinced that my good Friend has not read the Report. This is because, the words I have used are words from the Report. If he is raising objections to the use of those words, then it clearly means that he has not read the Report --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:50 p.m.
Hon Minister, you have now confounded me. Hon Prempeh says you have not read the Report and you are saying he has not read the Report.
Hon Member continue.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 5:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, as I said, the essence is in tandem with the practice. The essence is to ensure that Cocoa Marketing Board has enough capital to be able to carry out its responsibility. The essence is to continue to provide farmers with their needed input in time, to apply to their crops, so that they can get good yield.
The essence is to overcome the challenges of resources by sourcing resources against what would be produced. The essence is to ensure that, duties paid on this, because of the overall benefit that is going to come to the Republic of Ghana by reason of this facility, the stamp duty on the facility be waived.
Mr Speaker, a serious cost benefit analysis has been done, and clearly, the benefits that the country would derive by reason of outsourcing this facility would far outweigh the waiver of a stamp duty of US$3 million. That is why I invite the whole House --
In tandem with what we have been doing, this is not new; we have done it and we are doing it again. The previous years that we have done it, it has shown clearly that it has been very useful and beneficial.
Mr Speaker, I am saying that we do not need to change the course when there is evidence that what we have been doing has proved useful.
I invite the House to approve of this facility to empower COCOBOD to go about its operation.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:50 p.m.
Hon Kennedy Agyapong?
Mr Ken Ohene Agyapong (NPP -- Assin Central) 5:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I rise to speak against the Motion on the floor.
Mr Speaker, this is because when we go back to 2010 -- when we achieved one million tonnes, ever since, our targets have continuously reduced and they continue to go down as I speak. When we check paragraph 394, page 82 of the Budget Statement, the Hon Minister said;
“During 2014/15 season, COCOBOD purchased 740,000 tonnes compared to a target of 850,000 tonnes…”
Mr Gabriel K. Essilfie 5:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have a point of correction.
The Hon Member said, we achieved one million tonnes in 2010. We never achieved one million tonnes in 2010; it was in 2011. So, please, he should correct that.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:50 p.m.
Yes, Hon Kennedy Agyapong? -- [Interruptions]-- I hear some asides, that this is not fishing. I take exception to that because I am also a fisherman.
Mr Agyapong 5:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would want to school my Hon Colleague.
It is 2010/2011, And so, why is he saying it is wrong? He said 2011 and I said 2010 and so, I am not wrong.
Mr Speaker, in 2010/2011, we achieved a target of one million tonnes and ever since, our target continues to reduce.
When you check the Budget Statement, the Hon Minister admitted that 2014/2015 target, which was 850,000 tonnes, they had 740, 000 metric tonnes.
Mr Speaker, my concern is, at the rate at which our target continues to go down, how are we going to get enough revenue to service this loan? It is very important.
Mr Speaker, I am just coming from Asankragwa-Amenfi West, where they produce cocoa; probably, they are number one. I do not know if you would allow me to give you evidence on this. But maybe, you would not accept.
Mr Speaker, it is very serious. It is good that the Hon Minister for Finance is here. He should listen and probably, ask people to go to Amenfi West and see the state of the roads --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 5:50 p.m.
Hon Members, I keep on hearing -- there are Hon Members hiding behind the chair. I keep on saying, I will mention your names. Your constituency is in the Ashanti Region; it is near the Brong Ahafo Region. I do not want to mention your name -- [Laughter] --I do not want to mention your name for the record.
This is because it can be used against you when I mention your name — that the Speaker was mentioning his name. That is why I am not mentioning your name. But please, let us listen to the Hon Members who are on their feet.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 6 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I heard the Hon Member for Assin Central indicate in his contribution that we should go and see the cocoa roads that are being done. I think he wants to say that COCOBOD has done exceedingly well in ensuring that the cocoa roads have been done so well — [Laughter]
Mr Agyapong 6 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we are doing serious business here, so, I am surprised that my good Friend — The roads are in a deplorable state, that trucks cannot even go and cart the cocoa from the rural areas. From an eyewitness's account, they use tractors — [Interruption]
Mr Mahama Ayariga 6 p.m.
Mr Speaker — rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6 p.m.
Hon Mahama Ayariga, just before you make your point, let me just say that I will recognise you after the Hon Member, that is, if you want to contribute.
Mr Ayariga 6 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is in response to what my Hon Colleague said about roads in cocoa growing areas and especially in Amenfi West.
Mr Speaker, I returned from Amenfi West yesterday in the morning and the roads were very good.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6 p.m.
Hon Members, we will meet tomorrow. Will we not? We will see how it goes.
Mr Agyapong 6 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would want to thank the Hon Minister for glorifying the roads. The people of Amenfi West are watching and listening — if they are in a good state.
Mr Speaker, on a more serious note. Most of the cocoa farms that I saw are infested with diseases and therefore, very difficult for the Hon Minister to achieve the target this year.
Mr Speaker, before God and man, I would want the Hon Minister to go there himself and see what is going on, so that he would be conversant with the reasons they do not achieve their targets.
I visited a village called Pataase three days ago. The Produce Buying Company (PBC) agent actually took me to the warehouse. We saw the cocoa packed but it is only a tractor that can go there and cart it. His complaints were that, they get the tractor to go there every two months. So, when we have all these challenges and the Ministry cannot meet its target and goes for a loan again to service whatever loan — I am afraid it is not going to work.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 6 p.m.
On a point of order.
Mr Speaker, I understand why the Hon Member for Assin Central is complaining. Mr Speaker, they do not use any other vehicles than tractors at the farm gates — [Laughter]—They use tractors to remove the cocoa from the farm gates to the purchasing centres, so that the cocoa can be conveyed.
Mr Speaker, indeed, for the first time in the history of the town that my Hon Member is referring to, they are seeing the first asphalt overlay in that area. What I am saying is that, no vehicle owner will use his truck onto the farm. One would have to use a tractor to convey the cocoa from the farm gates to the buying centre. That is how it is done.
Mr Agyapong 6 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is sad when we hear my Hon Colleagues talk like this. He is laughing at me but it is serious. Instead of going there with articulated trucks that can convey about — [Interruptions]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6 p.m.
Hon Ken Agyapong, address the Chair.
Mr Agyapong 6 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister captured on page 84 — “COCOBOD acknowledges the importance of the need to control pests and diseases that attack cocoa crops”
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6 p.m.
Page 84 of what, please?
Mr Agyapong 6 p.m.
Mr Speaker, page 83, paragraph 399 of the Budget Statement. What I am saying to the Hon Minister is that — [Interruption]—I am referring to this, so that we would know that with what we have here, the Ministry will not have any money to service this loan because it failed to achieve its target — The Hon Minister is opening his arms —
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6 p.m.
Hon Ken Agyapong, address the Chair. Do not worry about the opened arms.
Mr Agyapong 6 p.m.
Thank you Mr Speaker.
The Hon Minister has admitted that he did not meet his target in 2014 and
2015 —
Mr Agyapong 6 p.m.
Mr Speaker, all I am saying is that, the way our production continues to reduce, it is not possible we can make money to pay these loans. This is because it continues to reduce since 2010 and therefore, when the Ministry does not achieve its target — and they have not even accounted for the rest of the money. The Ministry could have used the 110,000 tonnes money to service these loans that we are now refinancing again. What kind of management is it that every time, we come to Parliament to approve the loans, when we are not doing what is necessary for us to increase cocoa production?

Mr Speaker, my concern is about how we are going to pay the US$300 million because we cannot produce enough to service this loan.

Dr (Alhaji)(Maj.) Mustapha Ahmed (retd) — on a point of order
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6 p.m.
Are you the Hon Minister for Youth and Sports?
Dr (Alhaji)(Maj. )Ahmed (retd) 6 p.m.
Yes Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, just recently, my good Friend and Hon Colleague made reference to the case of the chicken and the egg. But I see him arguing against that same statement now.
Mr Speaker, the provision of good roads is one of the key ingredients into inciting cocoa production in our cocoa growing areas.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:10 p.m.
Hon Member, do you want to contribute? Do not worry if you want to contribute because you are now —
Hon Member, I will recognise you.
Mr Agyapong 6:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am surprised at my Hon Colleague but he is my good Friend and so, I do not want to pay to him.
Mr Speaker, even in the Budget Statement, they allocated US$150 million towards cocoa roads and so, when we come here —
Mr Speaker, even in the Budget Statement, instead of US$150 million — with their revised standard version, it is still US$150,000. So, when we have GH¢150,000 for rehabilitation of cocoa roads, what do we expect? How much are we going to make? It is US$150,000 here. Am I the one to correct it and say it is US$150 million?
That is in page 83, paragraph 400 of the Budget Statement and I beg to quote:
“Government is committed to improving the road network in the cocoa growing communities. For the 2015/16 cocoa season, COCOBOD has set aside US$150,000 for the rehabilitation of cocoa roads. This programme will help improve the quality of life, which will motivate the youth to stay in these communities and engage in cocoa farming.”
Mr Speaker, even the revised standard version — [Laughter] So, let us be serious. My concern is --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:10 p.m.
Hon Ken Agyapong, -- one minute please.
Hon Minority Leader! Hon Minority Leader!
Both the Majority and Minority Leaders are leaving and I intended to give them the last -- So, the Hon Minority Leader can tell his Hon Colleague that I intended to --
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 6:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with respect, the Majority Leader signalled me to see him at the back; so, we are just meeting at the back.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:10 p.m.
All right.
So, when you finish, you can inform him that I will give you both the last bite of the cherry.
Mr Agyapong 6:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in short, my concern is low productivity. It makes it difficult for us to raise money even to service the loan. So, we have to tread cautiously when COCOBOD comes with figures, and as Members of Parliament, when we do not scrutinise them but politicise and approve them, will not help the nation.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:10 p.m.
Hon Minister for Youth and Sports, did you want to contribute? [Pause].I told him I will let him contribute.
Minister for Youth and Sports Dr (Alhaji)(Maj.) Mustapha Ahmed (retd)(MP) 6:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my contribution is very brief.
I sought to correct my Hon Colleague but my contribution is that, we do need good roads to incite higher productivity in our cocoa growing areas.
Therefore, I would want to urge all my Hon Colleagues, including the Hon
Member for Assin Cental to vote for this Motion.
Thank you.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:10 p.m.
Hon Ekuful?
Dr A. A. Osei 6:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I believe my good Friend thinks --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:10 p.m.
I have not recognised you. [Laughter]
Mrs Ursula G. Ekuful (NPP -- Ablekuma West) 6:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in the memorandum to Parliament submitted on the 8 th of December, 2015, which occasioned the instant Report that we are discussing, the Minister for Finance indicated in paragraph two, that the Board of Directors and COCOBOD gave approval to borrow an amount of US$300 million to refinance cocoa Bills which were raised to finance the operations of COCOBOD at a time cocoa production increased significantly, demanding more liquidity to finance purchases.
Mr Speaker, from the records before us, in the 2012/2013 cocoa purchasing year, the volumes did not increase significantly but they rather declined. So, the justification for the initial debt, which was incurred, is rather doubtful.
Mr Speaker, and I am premising this argument on another memorandum submitted to Parliament by the Minister for Finance, when they came for the approval of the US$1.8 million facility for the purchase of cocoa in this season.
Mr Speaker, interestingly, there was an appendix attached to that document, which was submitted to the House on the 9th of July, 2015 and it indicated the trend analysis of previous facilities. Mr Speaker, it indicated that COCOBOD had performed
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:10 p.m.
Hon Muntaka, do you have a point of order?
Alhaji Muntaka 6:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, my Hon Colleague is seriously misleading this House. She said that between 2012/2013 and 2014, the production levels have consistently been going down.
Mr Speaker, it is important that she provides figures to support that. This is because if you check the website of COCOBOD, these are the figures between 2013 and 2014. In 2013, the total production was 835,456 tonnes and then in 2014, it was 896,221tonnes - there is an increase. So, if she is saying there was a decrease, she must provide us with the figure and provide the source of the information. Because what she is saying is completely a misrepresentation of the facts -- this information is from COCOBOD website --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:10 p.m.
Hon Member, continue.
Mrs Ekuful 6:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the point I am making and I am being careful in my choice of words, so, I would urge my Hon Colleague to listen carefully --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:10 p.m.
Hon Prempeh.
Dr Prempeh 6:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, before the Hon Majority Chief Whip quoted from his tablet 896,221 tonnes as COCOBOD production, the Minister for Finance laid this Budget Statement that has been approved and paragraph 394 of page 82 says:
“During the 2014/2015 cocoa season, COCOBOD purchased 740 tonnes…” -- [Interruption] -- The Hon Muntaka mentioned two figures -- I was listening.
Alhaji Muntaka 6:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the records of this House should be very clear.
Mr Speaker, you heard me talk about 2012/2013 and the 2013/2014 but what he is quoting is that of 2014/2015. Nobody mentioned 2015.
Mr Speaker, the figures that I quoted are for 2013/2014. In 2013, the figure was -- 835,466 and in 2014, the figure was 896,221 tonnes and then 2014/2015, the figure - [Interruption] No! She was quoting 2013/2014, and she said that it declined and I am saying that between 2013/2014 there was no decline and I quoted this figure from the website of COCOBOD. Yes, it is true that between 2014 / 2015, there was a decline but I was saying that the fact that she was stating that 2013/2014, there was a decline, was wrong. That was what I was trying to say. [Interruptions]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:10 p.m.
Order! Order!
Hon Member, continue.
Mrs Ekuful 6:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would urge my Hon Colleague to listen carefully because I am choosing my words very carefully.
We have just been informed - in the background to the document the Hon Minister for Finance laid before this House, which has occasioned this Report -- he indicated that Bills were raised to finance operations of COCOBOD at a time cocoa production increased significantly, demanding more liquidity to finance purchases.
Mr Speaker, the highest cocoa tonnage that we have achieved in this country was achieved in the 2010/2011 cocoa season. Since then, we have never achieved a million tonnes of cocoa in the 2012/2013 cocoa season. Therefore, it is not correct to say that the volumes of cocoa production had increased significantly, demanding more liquidity to finance purchases.
Mr Speaker, that assertion is incorrect and it is borne out of the record from the website of COCOBOD itself which indicates that the highest tonnage ever produced was one million tonnes --

Hon MahamaAyariga -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:20 p.m.
Hon Ayariga, do you have a point of order?
Mr Ayariga 6:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if you listen to the Hon Member, when we talk about the Bill increasing significantly, I believe that is different from production increasing significantly. Production can remain at the same level or even decrease, but if you are paying farmers a higher price, your Bill will increase significantly. So, there is a difference between a Bill increasing significantly and production increasing significantly. They are two different matters.
Mrs Ekuful 6:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have not mentioned Bill anywhere. I am talking about increases in cocoa production and quoting the Minister for Finance's own document.
Mr Speaker, with your permission, I would read again; it appears my Hon Colleagues on the other side are in a coma and so, cannot hear what I am saying. [Uproar] -- The Minister for Finance says -- since we are not asleep -- [Interruption]
Hon Fritz Frederic Baffour -- rose--
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:20 p.m.
Hon Member for Ablekuma South?
Mr Baffour 6:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am alive and kicking and I can see all my friends sitting down here alive and kicking. I think the Hon Member is either wearing rose-tinted glasses or there is something wrong with the medication in her glasses -- [Laughter]
We are alive and kicking and from my loud voice, one could hear that I am not in a coma -- [Laughter].
Mrs Ekuful 6:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am also very wide awake. As you can see, I am not dozing, neither am I snoring.
So, Mr Speaker, as I was saying, the Hon Minister himself said that and I am quoting with your permission;
“The Bills were raised to finance preparations of COCOBOD at a time cocoa production increased significantly.”
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:20 p.m.
Sorry, Hon Minister for Finance, I will give you the opportunity to have the last bite of the cherry. I will give you that opportunity.
Hon MahamaAyariga -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:20 p.m.
Hon Ayariga, I see you bouncing in your chair. Do you have a point of order?
Mr Ayariga 6:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not know if there are two Reports in this House because the Hon Member is reading a
Mrs Ekuful 6:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is obvious my Hon Colleague did not follow the trend of my argument. I indicated clearly that I am reading from the Memorandum to Parliament, submitted by the Minister for Finance, which every Hon Member of this House has a copy. [Interruption] -- Well, the Hon Member was probably on his way from Paris, so, he has not read the backlog of documents in his pigeonhole. So, I would excuse him.
Mr Speaker, if the original justification for the loan itself did not exist, that facility also was never brought to this House. The Report of the Committee on Finance indicates that the Board of COCOBOD, with the assistance of the Bank of Ghana, went to the domestic market and raised bonds with very faulty justification -- because they did not have any increase production to purchase on the blind side of the House, saying they did not need our approval.
For three years running, they have been unable to retire those bonds and so, they have thought it wise to come to this House because of their insatiable appetite for borrowing -- to ask for an additional three hundred million dollars on top of a US$ 1.8 billion dollar facility which has just been given them.
Mr Speaker, it would be unconscion- able on our part, if we as a House approve this facility which has been occasioned by the reckless borrowing of the
COCOBOD.
Furthermore, when they came for the syndicated facility last year, they indicated that they would purchase 850,000 metric tonnes of cocoa. Page 82 of the Budget Statement tells us clearly that they only purchased 740,000 metric tonnes of cocoa. What have they done with the savings that they have made from the 110,000 metric tonnes of cocoa which they did not purchase?
Mr Speaker, any prudent business person would have used the savings to retire the existing facility. So, I am surprised that the Hon Minister for Finance is condoning this continuing recklessness on their part and assisting them to come to this House for a further loan --
Hon MahamaAyariga -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:20 p.m.
Hon Ayariga, I have decided that I will recognise you. So, please, resume your seat and let her finish. [Interruption] -- Yes, I will recognise you. I think your contributions are of a nature that need a full five to ten minutes. So, I will recognise you.
Yes, Hon Member, continue --
Mrs Ekuful 6:20 p.m.
Thank you Mr Speaker.
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:20 p.m.
Yes, Hon Deputy Majority Leader, do you have a point of order?
Mr Agbesi 6:20 p.m.
Yes!
The Hon Colleague used words, that the Hon Minister for Finance is “condoning” and “recklessly” -- those two words.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:20 p.m.
I did not hear.
Mr Agbesi 6:20 p.m.
She said the Hon Minister for Finance is “condoning” a certain act and then she went on to say that “again, he recklessly…” Mr Speaker, those two words are too strong, in my opinion -- [Interruption] -- She did. So, she should either rephrase or withdraw them.
Mrs Ekuful 6:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, let me assist my Hon Colleague, the Hon Deputy Majority Leader again.
I said that any prudent manager would use savings that accrued from previous borrowing to retire some of his existing debt. The COCOBOD did not do that because they came to this House for US$ 1.8 billion dollars to buy 850,000 metric tonnes of cocoa which this House approved.

Hon Cassiel Ato Baah Forson -- rose --
Mr Forson 6:20 p.m.
Thank you Mr Speaker.
The Hon Colleague is grossly misleading this House. She is misleading this House because indeed, COCOBOD did not ask Parliament to approve US$ 1.8 billion for the purposes of purchasing 850,000 metric tonnes.
Mr Speaker, COCOBOD collateralised 610,000 metric tonnes and not 850,000 metric tonnes. So, she should get it right.
Thank you.
Mrs Ekuful 6:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance is even worsening his own situation. I have in my hand and I am quoting with your permission,
“The Memorandum to Parliament from the Hon Minister for Finance on the approval of the Terms and waiver of the Stamp Duty on 1.8 billion Receivables- backed Trade Finance Facility for the Purchase of Cocoa in Ghana for the 2015/2016 Cocoa Season by COCOBOD”
This was submitted on the 9th of July, 2015. Mr Speaker, they came and asked for 1.8 billion dollars which was granted to them --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:30 p.m.
Hon Member, there is no debate or dispute about the figure. The dispute is about how much cocoa was it going to be used to buy. One figure says 610,000 metric tonnes. You are saying 850,000 metric tonnes. So, I thought that --
Hon Mark Assibey-Yeboah -- rose --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:30 p.m.
Are you yielding to Hon Assibey-Yeboah? -- [Interruption]
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 6:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, when COCOBOD comes to the House, they indicate how much cocoa would be produced in the season. So, the 850,000 metric tonnes the Hon Member talked about was correct. Now, all of the 850,000 metric tonnes do not go into servicing the loan. So, what the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance talked about, the 610,000 metric tonnes is the amount of the production that goes to service the loan.
Mr Speaker, but it is on the assumption that the total production would reach
Mrs Ekuful 6:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, when the Hon Minister for Finance came to this House -- [Interruption] -- I am not misleading the House. If the Hon Member listened, he would hear clearly.
In the memorandum the Hon Minister for Finance brought to this House, he attached an appendix. [Interruptions] -- This is the memorandum for the purchase of cocoa for the 2015/2016 cocoa season. He has assisted this House by attaching an appendix which indicates the trend analysis of previous facilities.
Now, it is clear from page five of that document that in the 2012/2013 cocoa season, US$1.5 billion was committed, US$1.3 billion was utilised, the tonnage of cocoa which was collateralised was 555,900 tonnes and the success rate was excellent.
So, I find it difficult to understand what they mean by they had to go and borrow from the domestic market to assist them to purchase production for that year. [Interruptions] -- In the Hon Minister for Finance's own document, he has told us that they actually collateralised 555,900 tonnes of cocoa, and utilised US$200 million less out of the US$1.5 billion that they had actually collected for that purpose. They utilised US$1.3 billion and even had US$200 million left over for the 2012/2013 year.
So, what occasioned the borrowing of an additional US$300 million from the domestic market for the purchase of cocoa
rose
Mrs Ekuful 6:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would like the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance to know that I am quoting from their own document.
I am just a humble lawyer. I have no knowledge about finance and cocoa purchases. I go by the information provided by the Ministry of Finance. This is a document dated 9th July, 2015 seeking approval for the US$1.8 billion.
Mr Forson 6:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have with me the memorandum that the Hon Minister for Finance submitted to this House.
Mr Speaker, I would entreat the Hon Colleague to read the entire document before she concludes.
Mr Speaker, under justification on page
2 --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:30 p.m.
Hon Deputy Minister, I will also recognise you to make a contribution before the Hon Minister for Finance speaks. Do you want me to do that?
Let me remind you of the provision of the Constitution which says that an Hon Deputy Minister is to assist his Hon Minister. You are sitting by your Hon Minister.
Mrs Ekuful 6:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the very simple point I made, which my Hon Colleagues on the other side are finding difficult to accept or understand because the truth is a bitter pill to accept, is that there was absolutely no need for the initial loan facility in the first place. This is because there was no increase in production --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:30 p.m.
Hon Member, I think you should be concluding.
Mrs Ekuful 6:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am concluding.
Mr Speaker, there was absolutely no need for the initial loan facility. If we cannot accept -- or there are no legs on which they stand in that respect, how can we accept that there is any justification for this as well?
This is because they have more than enough finances, left-over resources and liquidity to be able to retire the debt without incurring an additional loan. That is the only point that I am trying to make. They have savings from the tonnage that they did not buy last year -- foreign exchange from the depreciation in the value of the cedi and they have absolutely no need to receive this facility. So, I would like my Hon Colleagues to reject this facility.
Mr Speaker, my final word is that we have to be mindful of the fact that all the citizens of this country are looking up to us to exercise our financial oversight prudently. The increasing cynicism about the work of Parliament, which is being occasioned by the scorn with which our electorate vote system enjoins us not to just go through the Motions, but to demonstrate to the whole world that we are alive to our responsibilities of exercising financial oversight. It is not enough for them to just put this paper before us to approve it.
If there is any doubt at all in our minds as to the necessity for this facility, it is our duty to reject it whether we are the Hon Members of Parliament for the Governing party. We are here to serve the
interest of all the people of this country and not just our political parties.
Minister for Environment, Science, Technology and Innovation (Mr Mahama Ayariga)(MP) 6:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, when I sought your permission to raise some objections, it was relating to the effort by the Hon Member to define the problem as having been caused by the “recklessness” in the management of the finances of
COCOBOD.
Indeed, Mr Speaker, if she defines “recklessness” as the effort by the Government to maintain the receipts that farmers get at the current prices in spite of the decline in world market prices, then of course, we admit that to some extent, we have been reckless in trying to pay farmers above what we have been receiving at the world market in terms of cocoa prices.
Mr Speaker, the Report clearly defines the source of the problem. If the Hon Member just read the justification column of the memorandum, she would see the explanation. Mr Speaker, and with your permission, let me read it extensively. The Report says that:
“The average FOB prices of cocoa recorded in the period, 2012/13 to 2013/14, during which the cocoa Bills were raised were US$2,130, and US$2,300 respectively. Notwith- standing, Government maintained its commitment to paying farmers remunerative prices, even though cocoa prices remained low during the 2-year period.”
Mr Speaker, so, it was not just prices. It was not what we purchased because she spoke about the targets, the loan amount that was taken and what was
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:30 p.m.
Thank you.
I will allow the Hon Member to raise his point of order now.
Dr OwusuAfriyie Akoto 6:40 p.m.
Thank you Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister is actually misleading this House. He came in late and he has absolutely no idea of the debates that have gone on before he arrived. Otherwise, he would not be talking the way he is.
Mr Speaker, I pointed to the fact that in 2012 and 2013, there was only a five (5) per cent increase in producer price; the next year, there was no increase in producer price.
Therefore, so, he cannot use that and say it is remunerative. The term “remunerative” is totally wrong here and
he cannot repeat what the Report says. He is misleading this House by the justification which we have already challenged before he came into the Chamber and I raise an objection to that.
Mr Ayariga 6:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it has been difficult understanding the point he was trying to make. I am not saying he is not making sense; I am saying it is difficult for me to understand. [Laughter]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:40 p.m.
Hon Nitiwul.
Mr Dominic B. A. Nitiwul 6:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Ranking Member for the Committee on Food, Agriculture and Cocoa Affairs made a very simple and clear statement.
He said the two years that they are using to justify the reasons they raised the bonds could not have been the fact that the prices were low and so, they made a loss but they were still paying the farmers higher prices. That is what he is trying to say, that it is never true that COCOBOD, because they paid farmers at a higher price, and the price of cocoa was stable, they lost and had to justify it by bringing in domestic bonds.
He added that because of the cost of chemicals -- but we have always stated, like he said, in this House, that anytime COCOBOD comes for a syndicated loan, they never use all the resources. Instead of using the margins to buy, they use it to construct cocoa roads.
That is their problem and so, they should not put it on the farmers.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:40 p.m.
Hon Nitiwul, you have just transposed yourself into the category of those who I would
recognise. So, I will recognise you. This is because it is becoming a contribution.
Mr Ayariga 6:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it was even more difficult to understand Hon Nitiwul. He came in to explain but it was more difficult understanding him.
This is because I heard him say, we should not construct cocoa roads. Is that the point? We should not construct cocoa roads and that cocoa proceeds should not be used to construct cocoa roads. Is that what he said?
Mr Speaker, I am trying to understand him, whether he said we should not do cocoa roads --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:40 p.m.
Hon Minister, this is not the time for you to ask questions. [Laughter]-- Let us not reduce this to Question time.
It is not the time for you to ask the Hon Deputy Minority Leader -- Speak to me; he has made his point.
Mr Ayariga 6:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was just trying to make one simple point, that it was not a function of recklessness; it was because we were --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:40 p.m.
Hon Nitiwul, are you on a point of order?
Mr Nitiwul 6:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, for the records, I never said we should not construct cocoa roads.
For the records, I said instead of using the margins, the profit made on the syndicated loans to construct cocoa roads, they are using the actual loan to construct cocoa roads. That is what I said.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:40 p.m.
Thank you.
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:40 p.m.
I will recognise you. No more points of order unless it is a very serious matter.
Hon Minister, I intend to give you a free range. Speak.
Mr Ayariga 6:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, to conclude, it was not a function of recklessness; it was because COCOBOD made efforts to maintain the prices paid to cocoa farmers even though world prices had gone down and so COCOBOD was receiving less than what was projected. That is what is contained in the justification. So, it is not a function of recklessness.
Mr Anthony O. Boakye (NPP -- Atwima-Nwabiagya South) 6:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I would want to put the records straight. I say so because I can say for sure that COCOBOD, to be candid with them, is managing the cocoa sector for the whole country.
What has arisen and what has caused this problem is their own making. This is because they have failed to adhere to time tested procedures and approaches that have been practised over the years.
Mr Speaker, at the beginning of every season, when the Producer Price Review Committee (PPRC) meets, we set aside a specific amount into an escrow account which we refer to as stabilisation Fund, which is kept there to solve such unforeseen problems that COCOBOD is facing now.
Mr Speaker, every Government and for that matter, COCOBOD has to keep faith with farmers, no matter the situation that arises. So, for them to find excuses that
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:40 p.m.
Thank you.
Now, I will take the Leadership or let me take the Hon Ato Forson.
Mr Cassiel A. B. Forson (NDC -- Ajumako/Enyan/Essiam) 6:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker I rise to support the Motion, that this Honourable House approves a loan of US$300 million for the Ghana Cocoa Board to refinance the Cocoa Bills. In doing so, I would like to clarify a few points raised by Hon Colleagues on the Floor.
Mr Speaker, clearly, under the justification, impression has been created here today that indeed, Ghana Cocoa Board increased the farm gate price by GH¢5 between 2012 and 2013. Even if it is percentage wise, it is also important for
us to understand that between 2011 and 2012, the Freight on Board (FOB) price for cocoa was US$2,500 per metric ton. As at 2012 and 2013, the average FOB price reduced to US$2,130. In spite of that Government of Ghana maintained the farm gate price for the cocoa farmer. This is the reason the Cocoa Bills were raised.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:50 p.m.
Hon Prempeh, do you have a point of order?
Dr Prempeh 6:50 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
I do not know whether my Hon Colleague, the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance is listening to himself. He is saying that Government maintained a producer price. Meanwhile, it is not Government which maintained the price, it is the farmer --They went to collect money at the Bank of Ghana as Cocoa Bills, to pay for farmers and he is saying Government maintained the price. What is Government's contribution? If Government maintained the price, why are we paying the loan today -- at the rate of 29 per cent? Please, he should not arrogate to Government what credit it does not deserve. They have borrowed money to finance cocoa purchase --
Mr Forson 6:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Colleague is not listening to me.
Mr Speaker, I am trying to explain that indeed, between 2011 and 2012, the FOB price of cocoa, though at the time, was US$2,500 per metric ton as at 2012 to 2013, the average FOB reduced to US$2,130 per metric ton. In spite of that the Government of Ghana did not reduce the cocoa price in cedi terms. Again, in 2013 and 2014,
though the FOB price of cocoa increased marginally to US$2,300, it is also important for us to understand that this amount is far lower than the original base of 2,500. In spite of that COCOBOD should have indeed, reduced the cocoa price payable to the farmer. Mr Speaker, we did not do that.
Again, let us understand that we are not only talking about prices paid to the cocoa farmer; we are also talking about fertiliser, pesticides supplied to the cocoa farmer. So, I would like to entreat Hon Members that if we are reading, we should read the entire document and not part of the document and make conclusions.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:50 p.m.
Hon Prempeh, I thought you had contributed. Hon Prempeh, a multitude of points of order amounts to a contribution. Do they not? The combined effect of your points of order is like three or four contributions.
Two minutes -- I am timing you.
Dr Matthew O.Prempeh(NPP-- Manhyia South) 6:50 p.m.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Firstly, Parliament should not support the idea that a corporate will go and borrow behind Parliament and comes back to Parliament for rescue when it is stuck.
Secondly, since 2011, the amount of money COCOBOD goes to syndicate to purchase, far outweighs the price of cocoa that it pays to the farmers.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:50 p.m.
Outweighs or exceeds?
Dr Prempeh 6:50 p.m.
Exceeds.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:50 p.m.
In conclusion?
Dr Prempeh 6:50 p.m.
Thirdly, this House will continue to support COCOBOD; this House will continue to support productive sectors of the economy.
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:50 p.m.
Hon Minister for Roads and Highways?
Alhaji I. A. B. Fuseini 6:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, is he referring to the 2008 when the New Patriotic Party (NPP) Government bypassed Parliament in syndicating the cocoa funds? Is that what he is referring to?
Dr Prempeh 6:50 p.m.
This is the same Hon Minister who refuses to appear before us to come and answer Questions. He has the nerve to ask me questions. When I finish, he could contribute.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Minister --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:50 p.m.
Hon Prempeh, I know the Hon Minister is your Hon Friend and you say a lot of things but because of the records, do the right thing.
Dr Prempeh 6:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I hope that you would cause that part to be expunged from the records. I withdraw. However, when it is Question time, he should come and answer the Questions.
Mr Speaker, if the Hon Minister for Finance encourages certain corporates to go and borrow money and not bring it to Parliament, even though the law is explicit, he should realise that when his pants are caught in his knickers, like now, he would not get support.
For the sake of COCOBOD and for cocoa, we might support this but never again should the Hon Minister for Finance encourage entities like GNPC -- because they have found oil -- to go borrowing left, right and centre and then three years down the line, when they get stuck -- like the Atuabo Gas Infras- tructure Project, when it got stuck, he quickly sent it to GNPC --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:50 p.m.
All right.
Dr Prempeh 6:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the fourth and the last one.
I hope the Ministry of Finance has learnt a lesson and all the COCOBOD Bills and GNPC would come to Parliament and we would support him where we have to.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:50 p.m.
Thank you.
Unless the Leaders have any objection, I will want to take the Leaders --
I will want to take the Hon Minister for Finance --
Hon Minority Leader?
Hon Minister for Finance, do you intend not to speak?
There is some whispering campaign coming to me that the Hon Minister for Finance speaks last.
Hon Minority Leader, is it the position that the Hon Minister for Finance should speak last? Is it the convention?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 6:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, truth is truth. I do not mind if the Hon Minster for Finance or the Hon Deputy Majority Leader would want to restate his position to be followed by the Hon Minister for Finance.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:50 p.m.
You are very experienced in this House and we just want to know what has been the convention. With such Reports, is it the Hon Minister who usually speaks last? Is that the convention?The rules are quiet on it.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 6:50 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I guess the Motion is in the name of the Hon Minister. So, after the debate, the Hon Minister may want to wind up. Except that the current Hon Minister for Finance has a rather notorious record -- when it comes to winding up, to start another debate. That is the notorious record that he has in the House. Otherwise, I do not have anything against the Hon Minister for Finance doing the winding up.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 6:50 p.m.
I will not comment on that.
Hon Agbesi?
Mr Agbesi 7 p.m.
I think it is fair that the Hon Minister for Finance should wind up because we have had fair debates on this matter and the issues are clear that this syndicated loan is in place. We would want to listen to the Hon Minister for Finance do the wind up.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7 p.m.
Hon Member for Effutu?
Mr Alexander K. Afenyo-Markin (NPP -- Effutu) 7 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I could not catch your eye earlier, but if I have the opportunity, I have a few observations with respect to the matter on the floor.
Mr Speaker, being a member of the Committee that authored the Report, I have nothing in substance --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7 p.m.
Hon Member, be very short, please.
MrAfenyo-Markin 7 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have nothing in substance to say with respect to what we have already discussed. However, there is something I have noted in paragraph 5 of page 3 of the Report. I would beg that the Hon Minister for Finance takes the opportunity to at least, clarify for the purpose of the records.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7 p.m.
Hon Members, order!
Hon Member for Effutu, could you take your seat, please?
I think, perhaps, you were at the Committee meeting when we started. This matter was raised extensively by the Hon Atta Akyea. So, I will not allow you to repeat that matter. If you have any other issue to raise, go ahead. Otherwise -- I know you were at the Committee meeting.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7 p.m.
Hon Members, Order!
MrAfenyo-Markin 7 p.m.
Mr Speaker, with respect to this very matter, we are not introducing a cap. We are leaving it very open. I am only urging the Hon Minister for Finance that when he gets the opportunity, at least, same must be clarified. It appears to me that, after approving this, we are not limiting what has to be paid to the lawyers -- we are not limiting what has to be paid with respect to other costs.
I believe it is very essential for the Minister for Finance to do a clarification, so that at the end of the day, it would not appear as if the Parliament of the Republic of Ghana gave an open cheque for any amount to be written on same.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7 p.m.
Hon Agbesi, I recognise you.
MrAgbesi 7 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have already indicated that, I am not going to say anything, except that the Hon Minister for Finance winds up.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7 p.m.
Yes, Hon Minority Leader?
Minority Leader (MrOseiKyei- Mensah-Bonsu) 7:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, thank you very much.
The justification for this request for approval has been variously started by both the Hon Chairman of the Finance Committee and the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance. However, going into that -- m and we are told that for the 2012 and 2013 cocoa season as well as the 2013 and 2014 cocoa season, the price of cocoa reduced from US$2,500.00 per tonne to US$2,130.00 per tonne in the 2012 and 2013 cocoa season. Then it increased to US$2,300.00 in the 2013 and 2014 cocoa season. This is one of the justifications provided by both the Committee and echoed by the Minister for Finance.
Mr Speaker, it is important to register the point that, this cannot be a justification. This is because, in 2011, the exchange rate of the Ghana cedi to the United States dollar was GH¢1.55 to US$1.00. In 2012, the Ghana cedi depreciated and so, it came to GH¢1.88 to US$1.00. That alone ought to have been a mitigating factor. So, for him to tell us that because the producer price came down, we are paying remunerating prices. It was a justification. That is an outrageous justification.
Mr Speaker, in the 2013, the Ghana cedi further depreciated to GH¢2.20 from the GH¢1.55. He knows. Yet they decided to maintain the same price, using that as a justification. He is beating his chest on that. Clearly, that is not justifiable. It rather amounts to cheating the farmers.
Mr Speaker, on the other reason that they assigned, that they had to pay for the cost of chemicals, before 2011, the fertilisers were sold to the farmers. Government thereafter decided that they
wanted to supply this free of charge to the farmers. What is happening now is that, after the introduction of that policy, farmers no longer have access to the fertilisers and chemicals, and they give them to them in tots.
When the President went to the Western Region, the farmers complained to him that they were not getting the chemicals, yet they loaded the Free On Board (FOB) price with these chemicals and fertilisers. The Hon Minister has indicated that he does not.
Mr Speaker, it is one of the reasons production is coming down. They do not give them the fertilisers and chemicals. The Hon Minister is pretending that they give it to them, and they charge them for that. Meanwhile, the spraying gangs are paid when the chemicals are not going to them. What kind of management is that? This explains why production is decreasing from 1 million tonnes we achieved in 2010 and 2011. Increasingly, it is decreasing. It is because of bad policies.
We must own up to this.
Mr Speaker, nobody is happy that these things are happening. As far as some of us are concerned, agriculture remains the backbone of this country, regardless of the fact that we have discovered oil. So, we should be very sensitive to these matters.
Mr Speaker, it was targeted to produce 920,000 metric tonnes as we have been told. They ended up producing about 850,000 tonnes. They contracted a loan to purchase 920,000; they were not able to do that and we have already told them about the depreciation of the cedi. How did we have these difficulties? We cannot
understand and that is what the Hon Member for Atwima-Nwabiagya South alluded to. We must watch these things, otherwise, there would continue to be a slide in production of cocoa and it will not help the country.
Mr Speaker, the other matter relates to the agglomeration of these expenditures. The Hon Deputy Minority Leader alluded to that. What does it mean? In times past, when COCOBOD was doing the cocoa roads, they used their margin to do the construction. Today, they set aside a portion of the loan that they contract to do the cocoa roads. When Government itself contracts loans to construct roads, loans it does not pay over a period of one year. It pays over a period of sometimes 10 to 15 years.
Mr Speaker, what COCOBOD is doing by setting aside a portion of the loan that they contract to construct cocoa roads is that, within one year, they must pay back. It does not make economic sense and the Hon Minister for Finance knows that. It does not make economic sense when they contract a loan, take a portion of it to construct roads and pay for it that same year. What are we doing to ourselves? That explains the difficulty that we have in the industry.
Mr Speaker, these are matters that nobody would agree to because we are harming the cocoa farmers. This is because when we have to pay for this and we are in a difficulty, ultimately, it gets back to them and we take from the amounts that otherwise, should be going to the cocoa farmers. This is the point that we are making.
Mr Speaker, now, I am looking at the loan amount. It is US$300 million and the total indebtedness that it is supposed to cover is GH¢1,354,807,594. We are contracting a loan of US$300 million to
Mr Forson 7:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is important I clarify this point.
Mr Speaker, the exchange rate we used at the time of meeting the Committee was GH¢3.85. The understanding is that we would be able to raise US$300 million, which is the equivalent of GH¢1.155 billion, for the purposes of refinancing but not the entire loan.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
MrKyei-Mensah-Bonsu 7:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, that exchange rate then is far above this amount. He has made it worse. [Interruptions]
Mr Speaker, the next point, my Hon Colleagues have already spoken to, is in respect of the legal cost and other expenses. We are told that it is to be negotiated. The recommendation from the Committee to us is that -- and Mr Speaker, I beg to read from 8.0, paragraph
2:
“The Committee therefore, recommends to the House to adopt its Report and approve the Medium Term Loan Facility Agreement between the Ghana Cocoa Board (COCOBOD) and the Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd, Credit Agricole Corporate and Investment Bank, DZ Bank, Ag DeuscheZentral-Genossenschaftbank, Natixis, Nedbank Capital, Standard Bank, and Societe Generale S. A. for an amount of three hundred million United States dollars (US$300,000,000.00) for the
refinancing of Cocoa Bills and request for waiver of stamp duty amounting to US$3,000,000.00 on the offshore
…”
Mr Speaker, if we approve of this, with this provision that the legal and other expenses are yet to be negotiated, and we step out of this Chamber and we are asked by the people we represent about what we have approved, what shall we tell them? --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:10 p.m.
Yes, Hon Minority Leader, what are you going to tell them?
MrKyei-Mensah-Bonsu 7:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is for them to tell us. As far as we are concerned, it is open-ended and we would not be able to tell anybody about any reasonable amount. That is why it is difficult.
Mr Speaker, I see the Hon Deputy Minister has a lot on his chest. He is itching to get up; yet when he does, he is not able to convince or persuade anybody. Can I sit and listen to him again?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:10 p.m.
Are you yielding to the Hon Deputy Minister?
MrKyei-Mensah-Bonsu 7:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am prepared to yield to him.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:10 p.m.
Hon Ato Forson, the Hon Minority Leader has yielded to you.
Mr Forson 7:10 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the issue of legal fees came up at the Committee and we did explain that the Board capped it at a one-off fee of £42,500. We further agreed that we would have to negotiate it downwards. So, we still have cap of £42,500, which the Board of COCOBOD has informed management to reduce by
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 7:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if, indeed, this is conclusive, why did they not put it in the Report? If he is sure of what he is telling us, why did he not put it in the Report? This is because this is meant for us in plenary, not for him.
Mr Speaker, this Report clearly does not inform us adequately to do the right thing.
Mr Speaker, it is important that we deal with this because I heard when the agency fee was quoted at US$50,000 and the Hon Minister said it was US$50,000 per annum -- The loan is supposed to run for four years. So, US$50,000 would translate to US$200,000. It is important that we deal with such matters because it is not just for COCOBOD. This is because it is like increasing the cost of petroleum products.
The cost ultimately would affect the passengers or user of the trotro. So, if we have such agreements, ultimately, it would have a bearing on producer price and that is why we must get it right.
Mr Speaker, I heard that with the estimated total cost, the Hon Chairman, when somebody wanted to know, drew attention that the total estimated cost, excluding the legal fees, is US$31,331,937.
Now, he tells us when the Hon Colleague cited the GH¢39 million, he said that is in Ghana cedis and it is per annum.
Mr Speaker, what it means is that for the four years the GH¢39 million would translate to GH¢156 million, and the GH¢156 million is what is giving us the US$31,331,937. Again, what does it mean?
Mr Speaker, what it means is that we are using an exchange rate of GH¢5 to the dollar.
Mr Speaker, so, I do not know; that is why I am saying that this Report is not giving us good reasons to support this.
Mr Avedzi 7:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is simple to multiply the GH¢39 million by 4 and get GH¢156 million. But in cases of this nature, where we are going to service the debt on annual basis -- let us not forget that we have only one year moratorium -- So, the full amount would run for four years. That would attract full rates. But in the second year, it is not the full amount that would attract - we have to adjust it. We do not multiply GH¢39 million by 4 straightaway and get the answer. It reduces along the line.
Thank you very much.
MrKyei-Mensah-Bonsu 7:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we are talking about the total cost. It is even worse, because when we take off portions of it, then on the average, the rate would even come down. That is what he does not even understand and appreciate.
Mr Speaker, when you do that, then commensurately, you would see that the rate would come down sharply, because the amount would not be the same. But now, it is GH¢5. Even if you use this, when you have not dis- aggregated, you would get that. When you disaggregate, you are supposed to get something very low, perhaps, even lower than GH¢3. That is what it means.
What it means is that there is a lot of padding in this -- [Interruption] and he says, no. Very melancholic.
Mr Speaker, let me sit down and listen to him.
MrAvedzi 7:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Report gave us the estimated cost for the entire facility for the period -- USS$31 million.

If at the end of it the exchange rates go high or low, that determines the final one. But for now, the estimation used in coming up with the GH¢39 million, we cannot use that one and multiply it by 4 and get the answer. This is what I am saying. If we would like to work with how much the actual cost is, we should use the GH¢31 million, which is minus the legal fees, to know that this is the cost of the facility.

As for conversion into Ghana cedi, it depends on the exchange rate that is running at the time we are converting. That is the point we are making. We cannot compare the two at the same time because they are different time periods, and then the exchange rate would differ at each time period. So, for now, to be clear on what is happening, we should use the GH¢31 million, and then we can convert it at today's rate. After a year, if the rate changes, we would have a different result.

So, he should use the GH¢31 million and forget about the cedi component.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:20 p.m.
Has he made it worse?
MrKyei-Mensah-Bonsu 7:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, he has made it worse.
He has made it “worstest”, as my friends in Nigeria would say.
Mr Speaker, as I said, if it is aggregate, a portion is going to be hyped off the first year. The second year, the amount would not be the same. Then we would deal with the rate. The third year, the amount would not be the same; the fourth year, it would not be the same. But putting it together then, if we are taking it from this point and calculated with the rate, the rate then should come down. That would give us something lower than the rate that obtains now.
We should then have something in the region of about three or perhaps, 2.5, because we have taken some off. But now that even when we lump it, it gives us this much; it means there is something wrong. That is the point I am making, and he does not appear to understand.
Mr Speaker, to conclude on it, this Report is certainly not in the shape that we should approve of at all, and I would call on the Committee to do better work on this than they have submitted.
In this shape and form, with respect, I would like to assert strongly that we cannot vote for the approval of this facility. It is bad, and it is not good for the farmers of this country. It is not good for the people of this country.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:20 p.m.
As I invite the Hon Minister, I will like him to take into account all the issues that have been raised, especially the one regarding the legal fees and the extra payment. You would agree with me that there has to be certainty in contracts. So, address all those issues.
Mr Seth Emmanuel Terkper 7:20 p.m.
Mr Speaker, rightly so.
Mr Speaker, I wish to request that as my Hon Deputy Minister indicated, the cap of the legal fees which was indicated by the Board should be duly recognised in taking the Resolution, so that it can be in the record.
Mr Speaker --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:20 p.m.
Hon Minister, if you could help me, on page 3 of the Report, I believe the terms and conditions, they talk about legal fees and other payments.
Mr Terkper 7:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I wish to withdraw my statement.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:30 p.m.
So, with regard to the legal fees, you are saying that we should amend the Report by putting a cap of US$42,000. How much, please?
MrTerkper 7:30 p.m.
I do not get you.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:30 p.m.
Is it US$42,000? I will like the figure to be stated for the record.
MrTerkper 7:30 p.m.
It is pound sterling -- £42,500 -- [Interruptions]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:30 p.m.
Hon Members, please. I will like to hear what he is saying, with respect.
Hon Minister for Roads?
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 7:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, even when the Hon Minority Leader was speaking, the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance got up on his feet and gave useful information.
He has said that the legal fees have been capped at £42,500, and that there was still room for negotiation to bring them down.
Mr Speaker, even though the Hon Minority Leader countered by saying it should have been captured in the Report, this House is a House of records, and having entered the records, we can still rely on the information provided by the Hon Deputy Minister. We need not amend that provision that says that the fees should be negotiated, because that has already been provided in this House.
Mr Speaker, we should not belabour this point. The Hon Deputy Minister and
COCOBOD can be taken on the information provided by the Hon Deputy Minister for Finance.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:30 p.m.
Yes, Hon Minority Leader?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 7:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, in this country, Hon Ministers have given assurances only to prevaricate and run away from those assurances. This one is not even coming from the Hon Minister; it is coming from the Deputy Minister.
Mr Speaker, would the Hon Minister who just spoke listen to us? -- [Laughter.] He is on his mobile phone and swinging in his chair. [Laughter.]
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:30 p.m.
Thank you very much.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:30 p.m.
Your microphone is off.
Alhaji I.A.B. Fuseini 7:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is precisely the purpose of listening these things that God in His wisdom gave us two ears and not one. They are both located at different sides. So, the fact that one ear is listening to the mobile phone does not mean that the other ear, which is not listening to anything, does not hear.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 7:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, indeed, listening to mobile phones is even unparliamentary.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:30 p.m.
I think the Hon Minister for Roads and Highways should spend more time in the House.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 7:30 p.m.
The Hon Minister, by his submission, said that he was listening to a call on his mobile phone. That is even unparliamentary.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:30 p.m.
Maybe, he was communicating with COCOBOD to get the figure.

Hon Members, Order! Order!

Yes, Hon Chairman of the Committee?
Mr Avedzi 7:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I accordingly amend the Report on page 3, that the legal cost and other expenses should read
£42,500.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:30 p.m.
I thought the sense I got was a maximum of years.
Mr Avedzi 7:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is not more than £42,500.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:30 p.m.
Thank you.
The Report is accordingly amended.
Hon Minister for Finance, you are to wind up.
Minister for Finance (Mr Emmanuel S. Terkper) 7:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I wish to start by clarifying a few issues.
Mr Speaker, if there is any doubt that there is a benefit to the refinancing, which is the first point, it is in the Committee's Report. The Committee's Report tells us clearly the benefits of refinancing. The Committee, in paragraph 8 of its Reports, says that and Mr Speaker, with your permission, I beg to quote:
“The Committee, after a careful examination of the referral is of the view that the refinancing agreement would help the COCOBOD Board to replace expensive domestic loans with a relatively cheaper credit thereby saving an estimated sum of GH¢305,333,744, representing 26.78% per annum.”
The Report gives the differences. Mr Speaker, indeed, this amount of savings was calculated by the Ministry of Finance and COCOBOD and brought into the Committee's Report.
Mr Speaker, this tells us clearly that there should be no doubt in this House, that part of the strategies for managing debts by any country, institution or individual, includes refinancing. We must embrace the concept of refinancing.
Mr Speaker, at the appropriate time, we would come to this House to prove that, in this context, the refinancing of the national debt by US$1 billion is going to be of significant benefit to this country in reducing the debt service --
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 7:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I think we are considering a loan facility for COCOBOD. The Hon Minister has strayed into the Eurobond issue where we borrowed US$1 billion. Mr Speaker, we borrowed US$1 billion at a yield of 10.75 per cent to refinance a domestic short- term debt that sells at 25 per cent. We are borrowing at a higher rate to come and refinance a loan which sells at 25 per cent. How can this be a better financing strategy?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:30 p.m.
I do not want to believe that what the Hon Minority Leader said was prophetic. He said that the Hon Minister for Finance, in winding up, raises more issues for debate. I do not want to believe that what he said was prophetic. This is because I know the Hon Minority Leader is not of the prophetic ministry.
Hon Minister for Finance, please, continue and do not raise a debate.
Mr Terkper 7:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Member who just spoke knows very well that if one takes a domestic interest rate, before one can state whether the dollar interest is higher, one would need to index it, at least, by inflation. So, if one takes a domestic rate at 29 per cent , which is just as have been done in this Report, and indexes it, one is borrowing at an external rate of 10 per cent.
Mr Speaker, he even ignores the tenure of the facility, which is 15 years, in doing his computation. It would clearly demonstrate that sometimes it is cheaper to borrow externally to refinance domestic debts. That is precisely what we are doing.
Mr Speaker, I have an occasion to speak --
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:30 p.m.
Hon Assibey-Yeboah, do you have a point of order?
Dr Assibey-Yeboah 7:30 p.m.
Rightly so, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, that is why I advised him to stay with the COCOBOD refinancing matter.
In the case of the Eurobond issue, when one indexes it to the inflation rate, which is 17.4 per cent, and is borrowing at 1.75 per cent, if these are added up, we are
already at 28.5 per cent. So, one is borrowing at 28.5 per cent to refinance a debt at 25 per cent. It does not make sense to do that.
In the COCOBOD case, yes, the rate is cheaper. We have 3.8 per cent and the inflation rate is 17.4 per cent. So, we are borrowing at 21 per cent to come and refinance a debt at 29 per cent. That one makes sense.
So, the Hon Minister should, please, stick to the COCOBOD issue. As for the Eurobond, he should not go there.
Mr Terkper 7:30 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do not fear at all to debate the Eurobond, and the Hon Member should know that I am not --
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:30 p.m.
Hon Minister for Finance, let us put the Hon Minority Leader to shame. Do not let us debate the Eurobond.
Mr Terkper 7:30 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, even if we take the COCOBOD refinancing, the principle I am stating is still there. It is in the computation which has just been made to show --The reason being that COCOBOD is going to stop rolling over the facility. Rolling over means that they were paying only the interest and rolling over the principal.
By taking a third loan that would terminate at the end of four years, they are going to be paying down the principal annually, and that establishes the principle that was being made, that as the years go, the principal amount goes down and that is the point about the indexation, which we were making.
It is that one does not therefore, multiply the total amount -- the total amount should be divided and establish
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:40 p.m.
Hon Member for Effutu, do you have a point of order?
MrAfenyo-Markin 7:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I do.
In the Hon Minister's submission, he made reference to the track record of COCOBOD. I would want clarification
whether that means that Government has no liability at all with respect to this refinancing facility we are considering. He seems to be referring to COCOBOD as if this has nothing to do with the Government of Ghana.
MrTerkper 7:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, the Hon Member who asked the question is a member of the Finance Committee and he knows very well that any time we have come to the Committee and to this House with COCOBOD, we always bring a record.
Since1993/1994, COCOBOD has been borrowing on its own balance sheet and has dutifully paid without encumbering Government. So, let it be known that COCOBOD is healthy. It pays for its facilities and does not encumber Government.
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 7:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, it is important also to make the point that since the cocoa prices climbed down significantly in 2012, in 2013/2014, the prices began to inch upwards to the extent that the recovery has been over a period of, at least, two years now.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:40 p.m.
Hon Minority Leader, can you speak up a bit, please?
Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu 7:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was talking about the fact that people talk about, and the Hon Minister is also relating to same, that cocoa prices slumped and it is only recently that they have been climbing up.
Mr Speaker, they started climbing up late 2013/2014 and the upward trend has continued up to now in 2015.
MrTerkper 7:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I said exactly that -- [Interruption]
I said until recently when it started going up. I made a point, Mr Speaker, because I have the figures here.
Mr Speaker, it fell from US$3,000 and that therefore, means that in looking at these factors, we are looking at the product comprising quantity and price. That determines the amount that is used for the COCOBOD budgeting.
Let it also be clear that the COCOBOD budget does not include only producer price. The loan that is taken is not taken for only producer price. That also brings another point that when you index the producer price, you must also index factors like the fertiliser that is imported.
We do keep certain things static. So, Mr Speaker, when therefore, you have this situation, that is the situation in which Government found itself and decided to issue the Cocoa Bil ls in order to maintain --
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:40 p.m.
Hon Member for Kwadaso, do you have a point of order?
DrAkoto 7:40 p.m.
Yes, Mr Speaker.
The Hon Minister for Finance is misleading this House. This is because any time there is a syndication of the loan, the reason that they bring to this House
and to the international financial community is that, they are going to use the money to purchase the crop.
Mr Speaker, they never mention any other activity but to purchase the crop. I can show you many of these memoranda that have been submitted to this House. The overseas financing show that they take across Tokyo, New York, Paris, London - the road show that they are raising this money to purchase the crop.
Any time they did that, they mentioned a figure of the crop. The last two seasons was 900,000 metric tonnes. They came to this House. Eventually, they reduced it to 850,000 metric tonnes. So, it is not correct for the Hon Minister to say that they raised these syndicated loans not only to purchase the crops but also for other activities. It is not correct.
Mr Terkper 7:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I insist that the quantity that is used to collateralise is not necessarily the same as the quantity output. Yes, the output is used to do the computations, which includes the producer price and other costs, including export duty, which is paid to Government. All these go into the final amount but does not necessarily mean that you collateralise with the output that you used to calculate to do the budget. That is the simple point that I am making.
Mr Speaker, my last point. I do not wish to keep the House -- Mr Speaker, there is a very important contradiction on the floor of this House. A contradiction in which the Government is accused of not having sufficient access roads and therefore, tractors are used -- at the same time, the criticism that Government is borrowing for the same cocoa infrastructure including roads. These are contradictions that I believe need to be clarified.
Mr Nitiwul 7:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I thought the Hon Minister was going to correct himself, so, I did not want to interject him. He said there was a contradiction in this House. While Government is accused of not doing the roads, which was indicated by Hon Ken Ohene Agyepong, other Hon Members are saying that why is Government using the money to construct cocoa roads?
Mr Speaker, nobody is accusing Government of constructing roads. The age old practice is using the profit that COCOBOD makes to construct the roads. You do not pay on your profit. It is what you owe that you pay interest on. You do not pay any interest on your profit. Move away from using the loan to construct and use the profit.
Mr Speaker, COCOBOD makes a lot of profit. So, put aside the profit and use it to construct cocoa roads. You can construct thousands of kilometres. Pick the loan, construct the cocoa roads and because of the nature of the loan, you would have to pay it back within one year, which is giving COCOBOD so much pressure.
That is what we are saying. We are not saying, do not construct cocoa roads, use the profits that they make to construct the cocoa roads and then make millions of dollars as profit.
7. 50 p.m.
Mr Terkper 7:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I have had an occasion to respond to this debate in another contest, which I am not going to repeat, Mr Speaker -- [Interruption]
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:40 p.m.
Do you want to raise a point of order against the Hon Minister for Finance?
Alhaji Abubakari 7:40 p.m.
Yes!
Mr Terkper 7:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I am still on cocoa roads.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:40 p.m.
You cannot raise a point of order on a point of order. The Hon Minister for Finance has the -- [Interruption] -- Unless the Hon Minister for Finance wants to yield to you, I will not recognise you.
Mr Terkper 7:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, I was deferring to you because you were addressing the Hon Member.
Mr Speaker, I am returning to a point I have made in this House, that the policy where we attempted to finance major capital projects on Government Budget and for that matter, on COCOCBOD's budget is not a policy that serves the nation. This is because that is what gave rise to the gang of four or six which we have had to borrow to -- the principle of capital financing is to borrow to complete your major capital projects and repay from those same margins over a period of time.
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:40 p.m.
Hon Member, do you have a point of order?
Mr Gyamfi 7:40 p.m.
Thank you Mr Speaker.
The Hon Minister for Finance said that, the evidence of the cocoa roads is everywhere.

Mr Speaker, again, about the distribution of subsidised fertilisers, let us go and ask the cocoa farmers whether they benefited from it.

The evidence is nowhere; so, the Hon Minister should not mislead the House.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:40 p.m.
Thank you, Hon Member for Odotobri.
MrTerkper 7:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, so indeed, I wish to urge the House to vote for the Motion. Mr Speaker, this is because -- [Interruption]
rose
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:40 p.m.
I have to recognise the Hon Minority Leader.
MrKyei-Mensah-Bonsu 7:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, since the Hon Minister insists that, they have been paying remunerative prices to the farmers, between 2011 and 2015, cumulatively, the cedi has depreciated by 105 per cent. Have they paid?
Even using that, if you double the payment to the farmers, they would have been marking time. How much have they paid to the cocoa farmers since he insists
Mr Terkper 7:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, if I may repeat and with all due respect, that the Government's financial policy and planning are more comprehensive than use one indicator -- the exchange rate in formulating any budget whether it is COCOBOD budget or Government's budget or in determining what is paid to the cocoa farmer,
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:40 p.m.
Thank you.
Hon Members, we debated this Motion extensively and the Hon Minister has wound up. While we were debating, I was monitoring certain matters. So, I will say that, this brings us to the end of the debate and I will defer putting the Question for tomorrow.
While we were debating, we were checking the numbers and the highest number we got was 115. We did not reach the half that we need to take the Resolution. So, this brings us to the end of the debate. We will defer the Question for tomorrow.
Yes, Hon Agbesi?
MrAgbesi 7:40 p.m.
Mr Speaker, we want to thank Hon Members for the endurance so far.
Mr Speaker, the House is in your hands.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker 7:40 p.m.
Hon Members -- [Pause]
Hon Members, I want to thank you for staying for this late. At all times, I believe we are working in the best interest of the nation and the decisions we take are taken
in the best interest of the nation. So, thank you very much.
ADJOURNMENT 7:40 p.m.